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| gibi | #startmeeting nova | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 7 14:00:06 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gibi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 14:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:00 |
| takashin | o/ | 14:00 |
| gibi | hello | 14:00 |
| edleafe | \o | 14:00 |
| mriedem | o/ | 14:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | o/ | 14:01 |
| gibi | let's get started | 14:01 |
| gibi | #topic Release News | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release News (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:01 | |
| gibi | #link Stein release schedule: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/Stein_Release_Schedule | 14:01 |
| gibi | #info s-3 feature freeze is March 7 | 14:01 |
| efried | o/ | 14:01 |
| gibi | #link Stein runway etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-runways-stein | 14:01 |
| gibi | #link runway #1: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/flavor-extra-spec-image-property-validation (jackding) [END 2019-02-07] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/620706/ | 14:01 |
| patchbot | patch 620706 - nova - Flavor extra spec and image properties validation - 22 patch sets | 14:01 |
| gibi | #link runway #2: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/libvirt-neutron-sriov-livemigration (adrianc, moshele) [END 2019-02-19] https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:bp/libvirt-neutron-sriov-livemigration | 14:01 |
| gibi | #link runway #3: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/handling-down-cell (tssurya) [END 2019-02-19] https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:bp/handling-down-cell | 14:01 |
| tssurya | o/ | 14:02 |
| gibi | any comment about the release or the runway items? | 14:02 |
| * bauzas waves | 14:02 | |
| gibi | #topic Bugs | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:03 | |
| gibi | no critical bugs | 14:03 |
| gibi | #link 58 new untriaged bugs (1 up since the last meeting): https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New | 14:03 |
| gibi | #link 3 untagged untriaged bugs (up 1 since the last meeting): https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=-*&field.status%3Alist=NEW | 14:03 |
| gibi | #link bug triage how-to: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage#Tags | 14:03 |
| gibi | #help need help with bug triage | 14:03 |
| gibi | anything else about the bug status? | 14:03 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 14:03 |
| gibi | Gate status | 14:04 |
| gibi | #link check queue gate status http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/index.html | 14:04 |
| gibi | #link Fix for the legacy-grenade-dsvm-neutron-multinode-live-migration (non-voting) job: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/634962/ | 14:04 |
| patchbot | patch 634962 - nova - Fix legacy-grenade-dsvm-neutron-multinode-live-mig... - 5 patch sets | 14:04 |
| gibi | 3rd party CI | 14:04 |
| gibi | #link 3rd party CI status http://ciwatch.mmedvede.net/project?project=nova&time=7+days | 14:04 |
| gibi | where we are with the gate | 14:04 |
| gibi | ? | 14:04 |
| mriedem | i'll have another patch up for https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1813147 soon | 14:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1813147 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "p35 jobs are failing with subunit.parser ... FAILED" [High,Confirmed] | 14:04 |
| mriedem | there is a deprecation warning still killing the functional-py35 job | 14:04 |
| gibi | mriedem: I will review it soon after you propose it :) | 14:04 |
| mriedem | logstash / e-r graphs have been off but it looks like they are flowing again | 14:05 |
| bauzas | mriedem: ping me the bugfix once done | 14:05 |
| mriedem | so i guess we'll have a better idea soonish | 14:05 |
| mriedem | also, | 14:05 |
| mriedem | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/634970/ | 14:05 |
| patchbot | patch 634970 - openstack-dev/devstack - Set ETCD_USE_RAMDISK=True by default - 1 patch set | 14:05 |
| mriedem | hoping ^ helps with the cinder tooz connection error failures | 14:06 |
| mriedem | http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/#1810526 | 14:06 |
| mriedem | that's it - more on CI job stuff in open discussion | 14:06 |
| gibi | mriedem: thanks | 14:06 |
| gibi | #topic Reminders | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminders (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:07 | |
| gibi | #link Stein Subteam Patches n Bugs: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stein-nova-subteam-tracking | 14:07 |
| gibi | any other reminders? | 14:07 |
| gibi | #topic Stable branch status | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stable branch status (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:07 | |
| gibi | #link stable/rocky: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:stable/rocky,n,z | 14:07 |
| gibi | #link stable/queens: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:stable/queens,n,z | 14:07 |
| gibi | #link stable/pike: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:stable/pike,n,z | 14:07 |
| *** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-meeting | 14:08 | |
| gibi | rocky seems pretty short, but queens looks long (what an expert am I?!) | 14:08 |
| mriedem | yes queens is long | 14:08 |
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| bauzas | roger, will take a look | 14:08 |
| mriedem | bauzas: maybe you want to walk through stable/queens changes | 14:08 |
| mriedem | jinx | 14:09 |
| gibi | bauzas: thanks a lot | 14:09 |
| gibi | any other comment about the stable branches? | 14:09 |
| bauzas | I stopped making promises for a long time, but this will be done ^ :) | 14:09 |
| gibi | #topic Subteam Highlights | 14:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Subteam Highlights (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:10 | |
| gibi | Scheduler (efried) | 14:10 |
| efried | #link n-sch meeting minutes http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2019/nova_scheduler.2019-02-04-14.01.html | 14:10 |
| efried | It was a pretty short one. | 14:10 |
| efried | #link libvirt reshaper https://review.openstack.org/#/c/599208/ | 14:10 |
| efried | ^ is due another PS from bauzas | 14:10 |
| patchbot | patch 599208 - nova - libvirt: implement reshaper for vgpu - 12 patch sets | 14:10 |
| efried | Report client traffic reduction & refactor series has all merged at this point \o/ | 14:10 |
| efried | Extraction update happened yesterday, see | 14:10 |
| efried | #link cdent's extraction update summary on the ML http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-February/002451.html | 14:10 |
| efried | END | 14:10 |
| gibi | efried: thanks | 14:11 |
| gibi | API (gmann) | 14:11 |
| gibi | No office hour this week. | 14:11 |
| gibi | #topic Stuck Reviews | 14:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stuck Reviews (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:11 | |
| gibi | nothing on the agenada | 14:11 |
| gmann | gibi: yeah no update this week | 14:11 |
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| *** a-pugachev_ is now known as a-pugachev | 14:11 | |
| gibi | gmann: thanks | 14:11 |
| gibi | #topic Open discussion | 14:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:12 | |
| sean-k-mooney | i have 2 bugs that i want to highlight before the end of the meeting | 14:12 |
| sean-k-mooney | https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-vif/+bug/1801919 | 14:12 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1801919 in devstack "brctl is obsolete use ip" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Nate Johnston (nate-johnston) | 14:12 |
| sean-k-mooney | so im going to work on removing the brctl depency this/next week as rhel-8 apparntly wont package it | 14:13 |
| sean-k-mooney | i may ping some people to review it so we can do another releae before the non-client lib freeze | 14:13 |
| gibi | sean-k-mooney: thanks | 14:13 |
| mriedem | you have until feb 28 to get that changed and released | 14:14 |
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| mriedem | Feb 28: non-client library (oslo, os-vif, os-brick, os-win, os-traits, etc) release freeze | 14:14 |
| sean-k-mooney | the other one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1741575 | 14:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1741575 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "creating a VM without IP (ip_allocation='none')" [Undecided,Opinion] | 14:14 |
| sean-k-mooney | we still dont support this but im a bit uncomfortable calling this a bug | 14:14 |
| sean-k-mooney | should this be converted to a blueprint/spec for trian | 14:14 |
| sean-k-mooney | if we choose to support it? | 14:15 |
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| mriedem | lack of a feature is not a bug | 14:15 |
| mriedem | there was a spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/239276/ | 14:15 |
| patchbot | patch 239276 - nova-specs - VM boot with unaddressed port (ABANDONED) - 10 patch sets | 14:15 |
| sean-k-mooney | mriedem: most of the support was added when we added routed networks | 14:16 |
| mriedem | which i thought was dealt with by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/299591/ but that only added 'deferred' ip support | 14:16 |
| patchbot | patch 299591 - nova - Enable deferred IP on Neutron ports (MERGED) - 12 patch sets | 14:16 |
| sean-k-mooney | but we specifcally chose not to support it | 14:16 |
| sean-k-mooney | so i can convert it to a blueprint/spec for train and we can discuss then | 14:16 |
| mriedem | then it's a new feature and we're past feature freeze | 14:16 |
| mriedem | sure bring it up for train | 14:17 |
| gibi | sean-k-mooney, mriedem: sounds like a plan | 14:17 |
| gibi | so there is mriedem's topic on the agenda | 14:17 |
| gibi | (mriedem): Proposed CI changes: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-February/002388.html | 14:17 |
| gibi | #link Drop the nova-multiattach job: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/606981/ | 14:17 |
| patchbot | patch 606981 - nova - Drop nova-multiattach job - 5 patch sets | 14:17 |
| gibi | #link Make nova-next run with python3: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/634739/ | 14:17 |
| patchbot | patch 634739 - nova - Change nova-next job to run with python3 - 1 patch set | 14:17 |
| gibi | #link Drop the integrated-gate (py2) template jobs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/634949/ - this one is more controversial, see gmann's reply in the ML | 14:17 |
| patchbot | patch 634949 - nova - Drop the integrated-gate (py27) template - 1 patch set | 14:17 |
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| mriedem | the only other thing from the ML thread i haven't posted yet, | 14:18 |
| mriedem | is slimming down what nova-next runs for tests | 14:18 |
| mriedem | to just be tempest.compute.api and scenario tests | 14:18 |
| mriedem | and i think i'll probably enable that for slow tests as well so it will alleviate gmann's concern about one test in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/606978/ | 14:18 |
| patchbot | patch 606978 - tempest - Enable volume multiattach tests in tempest-full/sl... - 8 patch sets | 14:18 |
| mriedem | the bigger issue is nova not running the integrated-gate py2 template jobs for tempest and grenade, | 14:19 |
| mriedem | i personally really don't want to have to run those duplicate jobs through the U release | 14:19 |
| gmann | mriedem: +1 on that. if we are more worried on slow test, we can try it with n-v first | 14:19 |
| mriedem | given we have py3 and we have other tempest jobs that use py2 | 14:19 |
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| mriedem | gmann: regarding the integrated-gate py2 jobs, | 14:20 |
| gmann | +1 was for nova-next one. :) i like to have py2 also running on project side to maintain py2 till stable/train | 14:20 |
| mriedem | nova runs the ceph job which is py2 (tempest) and neutron-grenade-multinode which is also py2 | 14:20 |
| mriedem | we still maintain py2 | 14:21 |
| mriedem | i just don't want to run redundant jobs | 14:21 |
| mriedem | we have other jobs that test py2 | 14:21 |
| gmann | mriedem: integrated-gate cover most of the code, rest other i am ok to run only py3 | 14:21 |
| mriedem | the ceph job runs the same tests as tempest-full but with ceph as the storage | 14:21 |
| gmann | but those job does run only few set of tests rught | 14:21 |
| mriedem | no | 14:21 |
| gmann | which one ? | 14:21 |
| mriedem | devstack-plugin-ceph-tempest | 14:21 |
| mriedem | and neutron-grenade-multinode is neutron-grenade but on 2 nodes | 14:22 |
| mriedem | still py2 | 14:22 |
| gmann | can we move them to py3 ? | 14:22 |
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| mriedem | there is already a ceph py3 job, | 14:22 |
| gmann | i am not sure they run on stable branch also or not | 14:22 |
| mriedem | my concern is if we move everything to py3, then we still have to run the redundant integrated-gate py2 jobs | 14:22 |
| mriedem | for nova they do | 14:23 |
| gmann | ok then we can remove the ceph py2 and keep integrated-gate py2 | 14:23 |
| mriedem | umm | 14:23 |
| mriedem | i'm not really agreeing to that | 14:23 |
| mriedem | i understand your concern | 14:23 |
| gmann | but if we remove that, do we add that on stable/stein and stable/train as we need coverage of py2 there in case any backport break py2 | 14:23 |
| mriedem | but i don't like that we have to run so many redundant jobs | 14:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | gmann: but why not remove the template and just run the jobs manually so we can better mange what test are run | 14:23 |
| mriedem | gmann: these jobs already run on nova's stable branches | 14:24 |
| mriedem | because they are defined in nova's zuul file | 14:24 |
| gmann | sean-k-mooney: actually template main goal was we can control the integration testing in single place instead of decided by project | 14:24 |
| mriedem | and we have that with py3 | 14:24 |
| sean-k-mooney | gmann: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/.zuul.yaml#L204-L275 | 14:24 |
| mriedem | i'm saying py2 can be a second class citizen now | 14:25 |
| mriedem | we still have coverage, | 14:25 |
| cdent | yes please | 14:25 |
| mriedem | but it's lower priority | 14:25 |
| gmann | mriedem: i mean if you remove them from stein master then stable/stein and stable/train would no hae them | 14:25 |
| mriedem | gmann: but we'll still have py2 jobs that run tempest and grenade on stable/stein and stable/train | 14:25 |
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| sean-k-mooney | gmann: ths issue mriedem is raising is today we run the same these 5 or 6 times aross py2 and py3 | 14:26 |
| mriedem | we just have a lot of jobs which mostly overlap tests with very little difference in configuration, and when we have these persistent bugs killing the gate that people aren't helping to investigate and fix, | 14:26 |
| gmann | only tempest-full py2 and grenade py2 right ? | 14:26 |
| mriedem | i tire of having to recheck everything | 14:26 |
| cdent | I personally think we should unit test py2 and _everything_ else py3 | 14:27 |
| mriedem | gmann: for py2 i'm talking about the ceph job for tempest and neutron-grenade-multinode for py2 + grenade | 14:27 |
| cdent | but I'm apparently crazy | 14:27 |
| mriedem | cdent: that's what i'm pushing for also, | 14:27 |
| mriedem | but we still have some jobs that run integration testing with py2 | 14:27 |
| mriedem | and thus i want to drop any redundancies i can | 14:27 |
| * cdent applauds | 14:27 | |
| mriedem | i assume that 99% of py2-specific issues in nova would be caught in unit/functional jobs that we run | 14:28 |
| bauzas | I tend to agree on it for one reason | 14:28 |
| bauzas | beyond end of this year, py2 will be unsupported anyway | 14:29 |
| bauzas | so, if we stop testing py2 at runtime now, that's just a matter of accepting that py3 is the default now | 14:29 |
| sean-k-mooney | bauzas: well we will start droping support upstream in U in september | 14:29 |
| bauzas | and py2 becomes unsupported | 14:29 |
| bauzas | which I'm good with | 14:29 |
| mriedem | i'm not saying nova doesn't support py2 | 14:29 |
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| mriedem | we still test py2 in unit/functional/tempest/grenade variants | 14:29 |
| mriedem | my goal is to avoid redundancy | 14:30 |
| mriedem | which is also why i'm dropping nova-multiattach and slimming down nova-net | 14:30 |
| mriedem | *next | 14:30 |
| mriedem | b/c i get tired of nova changes failing on cinder tooz connection failures | 14:30 |
| mriedem | etc | 14:30 |
| sean-k-mooney | it does wast a lot of ci resouces and we run the integrated jobs in the gate pipeline anyway | 14:31 |
| mriedem | so i guess at this point ill reply to the ML thread with a summary of what i've said here | 14:31 |
| gibi | gmann: would it be something we can try and see if py2 faults slip through? | 14:31 |
| sean-k-mooney | so even if it passes check the tempest-full job will catch it in gate | 14:31 |
| bauzas | mriedem: sure, I got you | 14:31 |
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| mriedem | sean-k-mooney: not if nova isn't running with that template | 14:31 |
| bauzas | mriedem: I just say that what's untested can't be supported | 14:32 |
| bauzas | or at best effort | 14:32 |
| mriedem | bauzas: again, py2 isn't untested | 14:32 |
| bauzas | but I don't disagree with you on non duplicating integration jobs | 14:32 |
| sean-k-mooney | no i mean we explcitly urn tempets-full on py2 and py3 https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/.zuul.yaml#L268-L275 | 14:32 |
| * gmann sorry delay in response in TC meeting also | 14:32 | |
| mriedem | sean-k-mooney: correct b/c of the integrated-gate template | 14:32 |
| mriedem | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/634949/ | 14:32 |
| patchbot | patch 634949 - nova - Drop the integrated-gate (py27) template - 1 patch set | 14:32 |
| gibi | I agree to slim down py2 testing. If we manage to break py2 after it, then we can re-evaluate our decision | 14:33 |
| mriedem | gibi: yeah that's what i'd like to see | 14:33 |
| gmann | mriedem: i agree on your concern about lot of job, and if we think unit/functionla jobs can cover all py2 things then we can think per project basis to run only py3 | 14:33 |
| mriedem | i'll reply on the ML thread | 14:33 |
| mriedem | that's it from me | 14:34 |
| gibi | any other open discussion topic? | 14:34 |
| gibi | then thanks for joining today | 14:34 |
| gibi | #endmeeting | 14:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 14:35:00 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2019/nova.2019-02-07-14.00.html | 14:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2019/nova.2019-02-07-14.00.txt | 14:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2019/nova.2019-02-07-14.00.log.html | 14:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | o/ | 14:35 |
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| gagehugo | #startmeeting security | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 7 15:00:34 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gagehugo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 15:00 |
| gagehugo | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 15:01 |
| gagehugo | ping fungi gagehugo lhinds nickthetait browne redrobot | 15:01 |
| fungi | howdy | 15:01 |
| gagehugo | fungi: o/ | 15:02 |
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| gagehugo | fungi anything new? | 15:04 |
| gagehugo | I saw the thing about asking if the Security SIG wanted a room for the PTG | 15:05 |
| fungi | yeah, i think the ptg organizers reached out to all the sig chairs, so just wanted to remind you to respond to them soonish once you get a feel for whether there's a reason to have a spot there | 15:07 |
| gagehugo | was there an email? | 15:08 |
| gagehugo | I don't remember seeing one | 15:08 |
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| gagehugo | I wonder if they just emailed lhinds | 15:14 |
| gagehugo | fungi: I'll ask around then and see about a spot, I may talk to barbican and see if we can share a room for half a day or something again | 15:15 |
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| fungi | i can find out who they reached out to | 15:20 |
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| gagehugo | I briefly looked through my email and didn't see anything, I could have missed it though haha | 15:20 |
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| gagehugo | fungi: thanks, yeah if you find out let me know and I will figure out what we can do for Denver | 15:27 |
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| fungi | i've asked them but they may not be awake yet | 15:30 |
| gagehugo | ok, heh | 15:33 |
| gagehugo | fungi: thanks! | 15:34 |
| gagehugo | was there anything else that came up this week? | 15:34 |
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| gagehugo | I saw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1811098 | 15:35 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1811098 in Ceilometer "[SRU] ceilometer writing snmp credentials to log file" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Edward Hope-Morley (hopem) | 15:35 |
| fungi | yep, i was just about to link that | 15:35 |
| fungi | maybe of interest to some who want to pitch in on helping the telemetry team out (ceilometer isn't technically vulnerability:managed by the openstack vmt) | 15:36 |
| fungi | i've been providing some guidance and feedback there so far | 15:36 |
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| fungi | as was mentioned in the tc meeting which just wrapped up a few minutes ago, the telemetry team doesn't have much (if any) in the way of regular contributors any longer, so people who are interested in using and keeping it secure need to step up and pitch in | 15:38 |
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| gagehugo | ah ok | 15:39 |
| gagehugo | do we want to write an OSSA even if they aren't technically covered? | 15:39 |
| gagehugo | or maybe an OSSN | 15:39 |
| gagehugo | or just a CVE for now perhaps | 15:43 |
| fungi | ideally someone on the telemetry team would send out some sort of an announcement, but it's not strictly mandatory | 15:45 |
| gagehugo | ok | 15:45 |
| fungi | and if someone wants a cve to track that particular defect, they can ask mitre or a cna to assign one | 15:45 |
| fungi | (ubuntu is a cna so they could allocate one themselves if they wanted) | 15:46 |
| fungi | the ceilometer reviewers did at least get the fix and associated backports (as far back as stable/rocky anyway) merged within the span of a week, so they're surprisingly on top of it | 15:47 |
| gagehugo | yeah I saw it seemed to get fixed | 15:47 |
| gagehugo | fungi: thanks for coming, I'll be around today if you hear back about the PTG | 15:51 |
| gagehugo | #endmeeting | 15:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 15:51:49 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2019/security.2019-02-07-15.00.html | 15:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2019/security.2019-02-07-15.00.txt | 15:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2019/security.2019-02-07-15.00.log.html | 15:51 |
| fungi | thanks for chairing, gagehugo! | 15:55 |
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