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| zhiyuan | hi | 00:56 |
|---|---|---|
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| zhiyuan | hi yipei and zhuangzhuang | 01:01 |
| xuzhuang | hi | 01:01 |
| Yipei | hi | 01:01 |
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| zhiyuan | #startmeeting tricircle | 01:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 30 01:02:20 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is zhiyuan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 01:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 01:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 01:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tricircle' | 01:02 |
| zhiyuan | song has some network problems in his office | 01:02 |
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| xuzhuang | The patch I commited have completed create local router automatically, but I meet some problems when attach the net to the local router gateway automatically. | 01:04 |
| xuzhuang | In Region two there are an external network, a subnet, and a local router(created automatically by the path I commited). But when I using router-gateway-set to attach the net and the router in Region two, Neutron raise Exception, | 01:04 |
| xuzhuang | RESP BODY: {"NeutronError": {"message": "Port security must be enabled and port must have an IP address in order to use security groups.", "type": "PortSecurityAndIPRequiredForSecurityGroups", "detail": ""}}. | 01:04 |
| xuzhuang | I debuged the code and find create_port raise this exception, but I don't know how to deal with it. | 01:04 |
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| zhiyuan | that's because the security group attribute of the being created port doesn't pass the check | 01:07 |
| zhiyuan | you can check why neutron rejects the security group attribute | 01:08 |
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| zhiyuan | from where the exception is raised | 01:08 |
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| xuzhuang | ok, I'll try | 01:10 |
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| song | hi,sorry for late! xiao han and ya guang have finish their task.are there some works for them to do? | 01:12 |
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| zhiyuan | can they spend some time digging into the CI issue? | 01:15 |
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| song | ok ,we will together to see it. | 01:16 |
| zhiyuan | though we decide to temperately bypass the smoke test | 01:16 |
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| zhiyuan | it's so strange that we always fail in gate, not check | 01:17 |
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| song | we have check it last week in our own develop environment,but everything goes well. | 01:18 |
| zhiyuan | a recent patch by zhuangzhuang can pass the "check" job | 01:18 |
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| song | look like a accidental and strange bug | 01:20 |
| zhiyuan | I remember yaguang mention that smoke test failed in a fresh-install environment | 01:20 |
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| zhiyuan | after succeed after clean the environment and try again | 01:20 |
| song | but reinstall all goes away. | 01:20 |
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| cyg | but I just run the trunk smoke test in a fresh-install environment is ok | 01:21 |
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| zhiyuan | hmm | 01:22 |
| song | to cyg how about run all the test to have a check today? | 01:22 |
| cyg | ok | 01:23 |
| zhiyuan | what about we modify our script, wait for some time after the env is installed, then start the smoke test? | 01:25 |
| song | add some sleep? | 01:25 |
| zhiyuan | not sure if this will work | 01:25 |
| xuzhuang | I installed Tricircle with new code in a node and boot a vm successfuly a few days ago. | 01:26 |
| zhiyuan | I just guess in the CI it needs some time to let agents to register themselves | 01:26 |
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| zhiyuan | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532097/, this patch passes "check" again, hope it can pass the "gate" | 01:28 |
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| song_ | good luck with it! | 01:29 |
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| zhiyuan | after that patch is merged, we also need to recheck those pending patches... | 01:33 |
| song_ | never mind. we will do these together. | 01:34 |
| zhiyuan | thanks | 01:35 |
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| song_ | you are welcome. if it can not pass the gate. today I pull a path add some sleep to have a try? | 01:36 |
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| zhiyuan | in that patch the smoke test is already bypassed | 01:37 |
| zhiyuan | you can try to submit another patch that smoke test is still enabled and you add some sleep | 01:38 |
| song_ | good! | 01:38 |
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| zhiyuan | xuzhuang, you mention that you have a problem then setting gateway, but your patch can pass the CI. so that's part of the implementation? | 01:38 |
| xuzhuang | the code haven't pushed | 01:39 |
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| zhiyuan | i see. does it depend on this patch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/569087 | 01:41 |
| xuzhuang | no, this path is the first part of | 01:43 |
| xuzhuang | Implement for l3 networking, in this path I will do create local router automatically and attach the exteranl net to the local router automatically. Now this path only include create local router automatically | 01:43 |
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| zhiyuan | ok, so this patch needs to be merged first, it that right? | 01:45 |
| xuzhuang | No need to merge | 01:46 |
| xuzhuang | I havn't finished | 01:46 |
| zhiyuan | oh, then you can update the title to add [WIP] | 01:47 |
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| xuzhuang | ok | 01:47 |
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| zhiyuan | other topics? | 01:48 |
| song_ | no from me. | 01:48 |
| Yipei | no from me | 01:48 |
| xuzhuang | no from me | 01:48 |
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| zhiyuan | ok, thanks for attending | 01:49 |
| zhiyuan | #endmeeting | 01:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 01:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 30 01:49:59 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 01:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2018/tricircle.2018-05-30-01.02.html | 01:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2018/tricircle.2018-05-30-01.02.txt | 01:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2018/tricircle.2018-05-30-01.02.log.html | 01:50 |
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| jungleboyj | Ok. Lets get started. | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 30 16:00:57 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jungleboyj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:01 |
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| jungleboyj | courtesy ping: jungleboyj DuncanT diablo_rojo, diablo_rojo_phon, rajinir tbarron xyang xyang1 e0ne gouthamr thingee erlon tpsilva patrickeast tommylikehu eharney geguileo smcginnis lhx_ lhx__ aspiers jgriffith moshele hwalsh felipemonteiro lpetrut lseki _alastor_ | 16:01 |
| erlon | hey | 16:01 |
| _alastor_ | o/ | 16:01 |
| geguileo | hi! o/ | 16:01 |
| tommylikehu | hey | 16:01 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:01 |
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| tpsilva | hello | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 16:01 |
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| eharney | hi | 16:01 |
| xyang | hi | 16:02 |
| walshh | hi | 16:02 |
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| kien-ha | hi | 16:02 |
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| jungleboyj | Hey, looks like a good turnout. | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | Have a lot to talk about so lets get started. | 16:03 |
| Swanson | bah | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Announcements | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| ganso | hello | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | I have gotten the summary of our forum topics put together: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VancouverSummit2018Summary | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | There are links to the associated etherpads. | 16:04 |
| kaisers | o/ | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | Lots of good discussion at the Forum. | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | Please take a look when you have a chance. I have one recording up. Working on getting the rest up. | 16:05 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: thanks for writing the summary! | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks to smcginnis for getting me YouTube access. | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: You are welcome. You were missed there. | 16:05 |
| erlon | jungleboyj, thanks | 16:06 |
| erlon | good stuff | 16:06 |
| geguileo | I missed you all too (pictures didn't help) | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | Swanson: o_O | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: Sorry. ;-) | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | Oops. #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VancouverSummit2018Summary | 16:07 |
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| jungleboyj | A reminder that Rocky Milestone 2 is next week. Will be tagging that in about a week. | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://releases.openstack.org/rocky/schedule.html | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | More on that a little later. | 16:07 |
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| jungleboyj | Also want to make everyone aware that I am planning to go through CIs are start marking drivers unsupported early next week. | 16:08 |
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| * smcginnis knows there are a lot | 16:08 | |
| jungleboyj | Give them a month to address before the end of Rocky which seems fair. | 16:08 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Yeah, afraid of that. | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | I will also send out a note on that to the mailing list so that I can at least say I have given fair warning. | 16:09 |
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| e0ne | jungleboyj: sounds reasonable for me, a month should be enough to fix CI | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | e0ne: One would hope. :-) | 16:10 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | I think that is all I had for announcements. | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Rocky Priorities Review | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rocky Priorities Review (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:11 | |
| jungleboyj | Main thing here is looking at drivers with Milestone 2 approaching. | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | Hedvig is still failing CI. That may be a lost cause. | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | Nexenta looks like it is good to go. I will make time to look at/merge that in the next day or so. | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | Anyone have anything else to cover on that topic? | 16:12 |
| smcginnis | Speaking of milestone 2, I think there may be one or two specs that are good to go too. | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Good point. I can take a look at those too. | 16:12 |
| erlon | smcginnis, do we have a spec priority list? | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | erlon: | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | erlon: Just jungleboyj's overall priority list | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-spec-review-tracking | 16:13 |
| erlon | ok, thanks | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | #action jungleboyj to get Nexenta driver merged. | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | #action core team to look at specs and merge what we can. | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | Anything else? | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | #topic HA Development Progress | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "HA Development Progress (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:14 | |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: Anything to report here? | 16:14 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: yup, writing the doc is a nightmare!!! | 16:14 |
| geguileo | I just submitted a WIP patch: https://review.openstack.org/571242 | 16:15 |
| e0ne | geguileo: :) | 16:15 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: Hey, that is progress though. :-) | 16:15 |
| erlon | geguileo, I saw you are working in a nice documentation patch | 16:15 |
| erlon | that ^ | 16:15 |
| geguileo | yup | 16:15 |
| geguileo | I submitted the WIP patch so I can get feedback | 16:15 |
| tommylikehu | geguileo: thanks! | 16:15 |
| geguileo | Because there is a lot of stuff in there that we know because we've been doing Cinder for a while | 16:16 |
| erlon | geguileo, I started reading it, ill give some feedback | 16:16 |
| erlon | geguileo, thanks for that! | 16:16 |
| jungleboyj | Awesome. Thank you. Will try to take a look soon. | 16:16 |
| geguileo | erlon: jungleboyj thanks! | 16:16 |
| geguileo | I tried to give an overview of everything that must be taken into consideration | 16:16 |
| geguileo | but I didn't explain everything in detail, because that would take me forever | 16:16 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: That would be a great start. | 16:16 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: that's the idea, have something | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | Feedback from the Forum session is any documentation is better than none. | 16:17 |
| geguileo | and then we can iterate over it, split it, extend it, etc | 16:17 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: rofl | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:18 |
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| jungleboyj | Ok, so I think the todo there is to get everyone looking at your patch. | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | #action team to review geguileo 's documentation patch. | 16:19 |
| geguileo | thanks | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: Thank you for working on this! | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | We will talk a little more about this in my last topic. | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | Want to make sure that we get to your topic first though. | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Reusing Cinder Drivers | 16:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reusing Cinder Drivers (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:20 | |
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| jungleboyj | geguileo: The floor is yours. | 16:21 |
| geguileo | thanks | 16:21 |
| geguileo | Some of you heard me talk about cinderlib on the Dublin PTG | 16:21 |
| geguileo | It's a library that allows any python application using the Cinder drivers | 16:22 |
| geguileo | without changing the Cinder drivers code | 16:22 |
| geguileo | So you can install something like the RDO cinder package and then from a python program manage your storage backend | 16:22 |
| geguileo | The idea is to reuse Cinder drivers in other places | 16:22 |
| geguileo | So I wrote an Ansible POC that uses this | 16:23 |
| geguileo | And also a CSI plugin | 16:23 |
| e0ne | geguileo: in general, I like this idea | 16:23 |
| e0ne | geguileo: just need to read your blog posts first | 16:23 |
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| geguileo | So now a Cinder driver can be used in OpenStack, Ansible, Containers, and our own programs | 16:23 |
| e0ne | geguileo: and try to use it | 16:23 |
| smcginnis | This is making our internal interface with drivers a public contract. | 16:23 |
| erlon | geguileo, do you have the link for the blog post? | 16:23 |
| geguileo | e0ne: sure, and feel free to tell me what doesn't work ;-) | 16:23 |
| smcginnis | So sorry, but #vote helzno | 16:23 |
| smcginnis | My 2 cents. :] | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: I like it but still trying to understand the main motivation versus using Cinder | 16:24 |
| eharney | why would we not want to have a well-defined driver contract? | 16:24 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: the motivation is that many people don't want to deploy Cinder | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: who said we did not? | 16:24 |
| smcginnis | eharney: We do, but we also need to be able to change and evolve that as history has shown. | 16:24 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: each cinderlib release would either be pinned to a specific Cinder release | 16:25 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: or it would have to internally manage the different versions | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: but the only thing this really removes from the Cinder deployment is rabbit and the API server no? | 16:25 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: it removes all the services | 16:25 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: API, volume, scheduler, rabbit, database | 16:26 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: you can use your own data storage for the metadata | 16:26 |
| geguileo | for example for Kubernetes it would be a plugin that stores the data in kubernetes as CRDs | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | eharney: my question simply was what's the motivation, I didn't know that we didn't have a defined interface ? | 16:26 |
| geguileo | that way you don't need to deploy antyhing else | 16:26 |
| eharney | jgriffith: just trying to understand smcginnis's comment about not wanting to have a public contract | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: but on the DB you add back in sqlite or as you said it's pluggable | 16:27 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: the motivation is that many, many people kept asking me about using Cinder drivers outside of Cinder | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | so I'm confused by that | 16:27 |
| tommylikehu | that's a good news for the vendors | 16:27 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: it's pluggable | 16:27 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: right now I only have memory and database plugin | 16:27 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: but I'll soon be writing a CRD plugin | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | So... | 16:27 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: If that is true I can see motivation to get ahead of the users and provide a solution. | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | here's what I'm not following | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | if you use things like block-box I would love to know what the complaints are about deploying Cinder? | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | How do we not end up just re-implementing Cinder though> :-) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Now if you're talking about deploying openstack, sure I get that | 16:28 |
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| smcginnis | So deploy a few containers, or setup up cinderlib and configure several plugins to match your environment? | 16:28 |
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| geguileo | smcginnis: you just configure 1 plugin | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | My other point of confusion is how adding a CSI entrypoint to Cinder doesn't accomplish the same thing in terms of driver reuse and well defined interface? | 16:29 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: and the plugin is a python library | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | The final option is, dump Cinder altogether, create a CSI based storage project for OpenStack and move along | 16:29 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: if you want to use the drivers in Ansible, it's not the same thing | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | becuase what cinder-lib proposes is zero cinder value and just driver code | 16:29 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: If I want to write my own code, it's not the same thing | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | but CSI drivers are pretty dead simple to write | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: wait.. use the drivers in Ansible? Sorry.. what's that look like? | 16:30 |
| * jgriffith is confused now.. sorry | 16:30 | |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: that's another POC, it's a generic storage Ansible role | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | sigh | 16:31 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: it will manage block, filesystems, and object storage | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | So there's a number of objectives it sounds like | 16:31 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: it's trying to do the same as the network ansible role | 16:31 |
| geguileo | an abstraction, and the base driver would be cinderlib | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | so replace the cinder abstraction with a cinder-lib abstraction to consume the Cinder drivers | 16:32 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: on the topic of CSI being easy to write, I disagree | 16:32 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: it's easy to write "something" | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | Are the cinder drivers by themeselves really that valuabe? | 16:32 |
| geguileo | not so easy to cover all corner cases | 16:32 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: yes, they are | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: true | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: my contention is that most vendors are going to be writing CSI Plugins anyway though | 16:32 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: maybe once the CSI spec is finalized | 16:33 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: but while they are making breaking changes... | 16:33 |
| geguileo | probably not | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | Just as you say "most customer you talk to find Cinder to difficult to deploy" most customer and vendors I talk to would prefer independent CSI plugins | 16:33 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: many implementations haven't even caught up with the current specs | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | True, but honestly part of that is the fault of K8's not being able to decide what to do here :) | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | TBF we have changed our position on drivers like 3 times in the last year :) | 16:34 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: and they are going to keep working like that | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | Nah, I think it's pretty clear that CSI is the way forward, and that's being communicated fairly well now | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | We are evolving. | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: but I do see your point | 16:35 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: and I'm sure customers will prefer having a cinderlib driver than having nothing | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | So all of that aside, a CSI endpoint in a Standalone Cinder... | 16:35 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: it could be | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | The only difference from that and cinderlib is the scheduler and the rpc service that it requires no? | 16:35 |
| tommylikehu | standalone cinder driver | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | tommylikehu: I mean standalone cinder service, but you mean equate cinder-lib to standalone cinder-driver? | 16:36 |
| tommylikehu | yeah | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | It's funny.. years ago we went round and round about things like external libs for storage device API's :) | 16:37 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: and the volume service, and how cinder is tied to DB for storing the metadata | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | now we're basically at a point where that's really what we want :) | 16:37 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: it's not what we want, it's just another use for Cinder drivers | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: the volume service is mostly just the driver | 16:37 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: not really... | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: it is in my world :) | 16:38 |
| geguileo | rofl | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | if you take out the replication and A/A stuff :) | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | I do think there's a lot of demand and value in things like scale-out and multi-backend | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | and the scheduler obviously | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | and the abstraction that it provides, particularly in a K8's env | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | but I have a feeling that no amount of discussion is going to budge your opinion on this :) | 16:39 |
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| geguileo | lol | 16:39 |
| geguileo | it's not like that | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | and it would seem that maybe you and eharney have had some discussions and some insight on this | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: nahh... I didn't mean that in a critical way | 16:39 |
| geguileo | I just think there is value in the possibilities that using Cinder drivers outside of Cinder | 16:39 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: I haven't really discussed this much with eharney XD | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | I just mean that you seem to have very specific data and experience that you're trying to solve a certain problem | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: ok, sorry then | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | alright.. so let's talk about this a little more | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | so by using just the driver.. | 16:40 |
| e0ne | originally, I thought it's about using api-scheduler-volume-driver but w/o rpc. I need to read blog and take a look in the code | 16:41 |
| geguileo | e0ne: that was one idea I originally had | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | I do see some value of just sucking in the python and *cheating* so to speak | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | I have a number of concerns though | 16:41 |
| geguileo | e0ne: But I decided to go on a different direction | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | We've pushed people a lot over the years to move more and move functionality up in to the manager | 16:41 |
| tommylikehu | jgriffith: +1 | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | and every driver is very much specifically written from a 'cinder' perspective | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | I'm a bit concerned that as CSI matures we won't really have the mechanism to do what is needed | 16:42 |
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| jgriffith | The bigger problem with that is how do we deal with special "CSI only" features being submitted to Gerrit for a Cinder plugin? | 16:42 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: that one is true | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | We don't test any of the CSI stuff, and we're most likely going to have code int he drivers over time that would *appear* to be just "dead code" | 16:43 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: but I believe CSI is mostly going to redo what we did here :-( | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | but in reality it's consumed/used elsewhere | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | hehe.. I have no argument on that! | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | I've always said CSI should just be Cinder :) | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | BUT | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | That being said, I do think they'll likely move forward proposing the same features | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | BUT as we know defining those features and how they actually work is different for everyone | 16:44 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I am thinking that more and more. | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | that includes CSI vs Cinder | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | not just Vendor-a vs Vendor-b | 16:44 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: yeah, but we are also evolving Cinder | 16:45 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: ++ | 16:45 |
| geguileo | so we can help them on the CSI front like some Cinder folks have been doing | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | fair point | 16:45 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: I think anything we can do to be relevant to CSI is valuable. | 16:45 |
| jungleboyj | If that makes sense ... | 16:46 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: to me it does | 16:46 |
| geguileo | it's easier to explain to a company why they should have an engineer working on Cinder | 16:46 |
| jungleboyj | Feedback from the Forum is that people are looking for Cinder and k8s integration with and without OpenStack. | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: so to be clear, I'm not saying we should be relevant to CSI | 16:46 |
| geguileo | if you tell them their driver will work on Ansible and on Containers as well | 16:46 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: You mean you aren't saying we shouldn't be relevant? | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | I am saying however that instead of hacking a layer over the drivers it might be worth considering being an actual CSI plugin or providing a CSI interface | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | Or we follow neutrons lead a couple years ago, create the stadium and drivers are just things on their own | 16:47 |
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| jgriffith | FWIW that didn't work out very well for them I don't think | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | but I could be wrong | 16:47 |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Ok, I understand that. | 16:48 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: we could have both options: cinderlib and a CSI service | 16:48 |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I agree that free range drivers hasn't been the best for Neutron. | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | I feel like I'm monopolizing the conversation here so I'll shut up for a few minutes :) | 16:48 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: so we could have a node with the Cinder-API and the Cinder-CSI services | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: yeah, that's certainly possible; but TBH I'd rather have concensus and build somethign as a community | 16:49 |
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| geguileo | that would be usefull for deployments where they have containers and OpenStack | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | one of my gripes in the new world has been fragmentation | 16:49 |
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| jgriffith | I also can't handle creating another *thing* that never gets used :( | 16:50 |
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| geguileo | cinderlib-csi should be easy to maintain if we test cinderlib with Cinder | 16:50 |
| * jgriffith sheds a tear | 16:50 | |
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| ganso | lol | 16:50 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: that's another reason to have cinderlib-csi, you don't have to write a CSI driver | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:50 |
| geguileo | rofl | 16:50 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: What did you make that didn't get used? | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | touchet geguileo | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | but I already did :( | 16:50 |
| * jungleboyj sighs | 16:51 | |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: You are just too on top of things. | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: no, that's not the case... ask smcginnis I'm just ADD | 16:51 |
| smcginnis | :) | 16:51 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:51 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: does't it have the new snapshot feature? };-) | 16:51 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Nice to have you back in the meetings. | 16:51 |
| geguileo | s/doesn't/does | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: one of them does :) | 16:52 |
| geguileo | rofl | 16:52 |
| smcginnis | Regardless of the rest, I am in favor of adding a cinder-csi service as an official Cinder team deliverable as an alternative/addition to cinder-api. | 16:52 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: nice! | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | but yeah... I'm with ya | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | So, geguileo What was your goal today? | 16:52 |
| geguileo | my goal was to see if there was interest in cinderlib | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | to get /me to shut up :) | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | ROFL | 16:52 |
| geguileo | as a gateway to make Cinder and its drivers more relevant | 16:52 |
| e0ne | smcginnis: +1 | 16:53 |
| geguileo | and if we would be willing to run it's functional tests at the gate on the tempest jobs | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: I think that makes sense. | 16:53 |
| geguileo | it takes under a minute to run them once you have an already deployed Cinder node | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | So, we are running out of time and I would like to roll up a plan here. | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | I think if we are going to do cinderlib we need to have it documented and tested in the gate. | 16:54 |
| e0ne | +1 | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | I don't feel like we have reached consensus as to whether we want it as a project. | 16:54 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: it is documented, I just need to keep improving the documentation | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: geguileo I think it would be good for folks with drivers to clone the repo and play with things a bit and see what they think | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | I don't think we have agreed that we don't want it as a project. | 16:54 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: +1 | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: That is great . I remember seeing that. | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | then maybe we can chat again next week assuming everybody does their homework? | 16:54 |
| erlon | jgriffith, +1 | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: ++ | 16:54 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: +1 | 16:55 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I am good with that. | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | and for the record, I'm certainly NOT saying I don't want it | 16:55 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: +1 | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | I just want to weigh things out thoroughly | 16:55 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:55 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: I know, and I appreciate the discussion | 16:55 |
| * geguileo prefers discussion to silence | 16:55 | |
| jungleboyj | I also think that we need to make time at the PTG or some time between now and then to have the larger Cinder/CSI/etc etc. discussion. | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: good, thanks! I know I can sometimes come across the wrong way on discussions like this | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: ++ Nice to have a lively meeting. | 16:56 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: +1 | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. So ... | 16:56 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: ^ on the PTG discussion thing | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | #action Driver developers and team to pull down the cinder-lib code and try it out. | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | #action jungleboyj to put continued discussion on the agenda for next week. | 16:57 |
| geguileo | there's a section in the docs | 16:57 |
| jungleboyj | #action Ensure we have future discussion around cinder-lib / CSI / general future direction for Cinder. | 16:57 |
| geguileo | on how to test a driver | 16:57 |
| geguileo | https://cinderlib.readthedocs.io/en/latest/validating_backends.html | 16:57 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: cool. | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://cinderlib.readthedocs.io/en/latest/validating_backends.html | 16:58 |
| erlon | geguileo, cool | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | In the last minute I would like to move on. | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Follow-up topics from the Forum: | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow-up topics from the Forum: (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:58 | |
| jungleboyj | So, there are some things from the Forum that we need to discuss as a team. | 16:59 |
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| jungleboyj | I have included the info in the agenda. | 16:59 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-rocky-meeting-agendas | 16:59 |
| jungleboyj | Please take a look at those. I will get the audio posted later today/tonmorrow. | 16:59 |
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| jungleboyj | I am going to push those items forward to next week's agenda after people have had chance to look at the discussion that happened there and we can figure out the path forward. | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Hope that sounds good to everyone. | 17:00 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: sounds good | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | And on that note we need to wrap up. | 17:00 |
| erlon | sounds like we are running out of time :) | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Thank you everyone for good discussion today. | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 30 17:00:55 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2018/cinder.2018-05-30-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2018/cinder.2018-05-30-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2018/cinder.2018-05-30-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
| jungleboyj | erlon: Yeah, it is ok. People need time to catch up on what happened at the Forum anyway. :-) | 17:01 |
| geguileo | thanks everyone!!! | 17:01 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: Thank you! | 17:01 |
| erlon | jungleboyj, yeap having that time will be nice | 17:01 |
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| jungleboyj | erlon: ++ | 17:02 |
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| SotK | anyone around for storyboard? | 19:01 |
| clarkb | I am lurking | 19:01 |
| diablo_rojo | Me! | 19:01 |
| SotK | #startmeeting storyboard | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 30 19:02:24 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 19:02 |
| SotK | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StoryBoard#Agenda_for_next_meeting Agenda | 19:02 |
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| SotK | #topic Forum Recap | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Forum Recap (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:03 | |
| SotK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/continuing-the-migration-lp-sb | 19:03 |
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| diablo_rojo | So I think our migration discussion went pretty well. | 19:03 |
| diablo_rojo | People seemed to be on board and impressed with the progress we had made so far. | 19:03 |
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| diablo_rojo | I think migrating roughly a project a week there for the last month and a half really helped :) | 19:04 |
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| diablo_rojo | It didn't seem like anyone had any new blocking issues so that was nice to hear as well | 19:04 |
| SotK | yeah I thought it was a good session | 19:04 |
| diablo_rojo | At this point I think most of the work is just nice to haves/ removing annoyances | 19:05 |
| SotK | I agree on the whole | 19:05 |
| diablo_rojo | And continuing to migrate folks. | 19:05 |
| SotK | we need to fix the search slowness when tags are involved though, that is pretty painful | 19:05 |
| diablo_rojo | SotK, agreed. | 19:05 |
| diablo_rojo | Maybe a little more than an annoyance at this point. | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | we are also updating our deployment of the webclient to keep things up to date on the infra side | 19:06 |
| clarkb | (that came up in the storyboard session) | 19:06 |
| diablo_rojo | Oh yes that would be great. | 19:07 |
| SotK | I just saw that in the infra channel, thanks for fixing up the puppet :) | 19:07 |
| diablo_rojo | Yes thank you :) | 19:07 |
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| diablo_rojo | There was a discussion on Thursday I think about S release goals. I had to cut out early so maybe fungi can summarize the sb part of that convo better? | 19:08 |
| diablo_rojo | I know some of the build up was that we need goals that look good or are benefits to operators/users | 19:08 |
| diablo_rojo | So storyboard has much less weight, but I think it was still in the running as something to make all our lives easier | 19:09 |
| diablo_rojo | I have the goal all ready to go, I was kind of just waiting for us to finish migrating tripleO so we had two bigger projects under our belt. | 19:10 |
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| SotK | I think waiting for tripleO is sensible, it gives that bit more weight to the idea | 19:11 |
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| diablo_rojo | My thoughts exactly. | 19:13 |
| diablo_rojo | Anyone know M2 date off the top of their head? | 19:13 |
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| SotK | https://releases.openstack.org/rocky/schedule.html suggests next week | 19:15 |
| diablo_rojo | SotK, woot. So then I thiiink- I will double check- but I thiiiink that TripleO was going to target the migration around then. | 19:16 |
| diablo_rojo | They had tools they needed to update first, but wanted to be switched before M3 | 19:16 |
| diablo_rojo | I will add a todo for myself to check in and see how that is going. | 19:16 |
| SotK | cool, thanks | 19:17 |
| SotK | I guess we're kind of into Migration Updates now | 19:17 |
| SotK | #topic Migration Updates | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Migration Updates (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:17 | |
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| diablo_rojo | So, obviously havent migrated anyone lately, but OS-Helm is ready to take the plunge. | 19:18 |
| * diablo_rojo is replying to an email now proposing next Friday | 19:18 | |
| diablo_rojo | So we should have them for next week. | 19:19 |
| SotK | nice! | 19:19 |
| diablo_rojo | Maybe, if TripleO is all set, we can do them the week after? | 19:19 |
| diablo_rojo | Unless they are super on the ball and already have their tools ready. | 19:19 |
| diablo_rojo | Then maybe we can do both next week. | 19:19 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, would you have time next friday to migrate at least OS-Helm? | 19:20 |
| fungi | sure | 19:20 |
| diablo_rojo | Now that Summit is done and I have time to start doing test migrations again I will do Keystone next as they have waited so patiently :) | 19:21 |
| fungi | and yeah, there was no real goal conversation | 19:21 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, awesome | 19:21 |
| fungi | just enough time for me to squeeze in the sb migration goal pitch at the end | 19:21 |
| fungi | most of the goals session was spent discussing past goals and the selection process | 19:21 |
| * fungi only just remembered the meeting, sorry! | 19:22 | |
| diablo_rojo | It was an interesting conversation and recap, though not what I expected it to be. | 19:22 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, no worries :) | 19:22 |
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| SotK | any other migration updates? | 19:24 |
| diablo_rojo | Uhhh don't think so. Really just had OSH, TripleO and Keystone things | 19:25 |
| SotK | #topic In Progress Work | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "In Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:25 | |
| fungi | clarkb just fixed deployment of sb-wc in the puppet module (we think) | 19:26 |
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| SotK | \o/ | 19:26 |
| fungi | we'll know for sure in some number of minutes | 19:26 |
| fungi | didn't want to try and troubleshoot further in the middle of the summit | 19:26 |
| SotK | makes sense | 19:27 |
| diablo_rojo | Totally reasonable | 19:27 |
| SotK | the partial fix from the summit meant that a few of the Octavia issues are now fixed anyway | 19:27 |
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| fungi | yeah, production is basically up to date already, at least | 19:28 |
| * SotK hasn't got any real updates on his in progress things to talk about really, I'm not entirely sure what happened to last week | 19:31 | |
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| diablo_rojo | At some point we should go over that list again to make sure stories exist for everything- I know I wrote down which ones needed it but haven't made them myself yet | 19:31 |
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| SotK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storyboard-issues | 19:32 |
| diablo_rojo | SotK, if its any consolation, this is the most time I have spent on my laptop actually working since last week. | 19:32 |
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| SotK | heh, I've done plenty of work just not storyboard related :( | 19:33 |
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| diablo_rojo | SotK, I saw fatema_ had been around? You were helping her a bit? | 19:33 |
| fungi | yeah, to your credit diablo_rojo, you _were_ "actually working" last week | 19:33 |
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| clarkb | I'm catching up on the "not" working that happened last week | 19:34 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, different kind of work I suppose :) | 19:34 |
| SotK | diablo_rojo: this is true | 19:34 |
| diablo_rojo | clarkb, yeah same | 19:34 |
| fungi | tosky gave fatema_ some pointers about installation issues, i think | 19:34 |
| clarkb | git.openstack.org should be happier for our users now and now on to storyboard weblicnet deployments that we broke last week :) | 19:34 |
| diablo_rojo | clarkb, woot woot! | 19:35 |
| clarkb | then its update things to handle changes to ansible then maybe I can look at things that came out of the summit itself :) | 19:35 |
| SotK | #topic Open Discussion | 19:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:36 | |
| diablo_rojo | Yeah trying to do all the catchup things before getting into summaries, recaps etc. | 19:36 |
| diablo_rojo | I saw a ML thread the otherday about issues with fontawesome that I wasnt sure we needed to be aware of | 19:36 |
| diablo_rojo | Didn't read the whole thing but I wanted to point it out in case it was important | 19:37 |
| * SotK had a read of it earlier, unless I'm missing something it shouldn't affect us since we get the relevant version of font-awesome from npm, build it into our tarball and then serve the font with the webclient | 19:38 | |
| SotK | the "font-awesome decided to break everything" made https://review.openstack.org/#/c/545676/ a pain though and is the reason for my Workflow -1 on it | 19:39 |
| fungi | yeah, had to do with debian packaging where the packaged xstatic-fontawesome is a wrapper around the fontawesome distro package which in debian is 5.x whil horizon is being tested against fontawesome 4.x | 19:40 |
| fungi | something along those lines | 19:40 |
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| diablo_rojo | Okay cool never mind then :) | 19:41 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/storyboard+branch:master+topic:538575 | 19:42 |
| mtreinish | just putting that there to try and close it out, I don't think there are any major objections on it | 19:42 |
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| SotK | mtreinish: thanks for the reminder, I'll try to go through and approve it soon | 19:43 |
| mtreinish | SotK: cool, thanks | 19:44 |
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| diablo_rojo | thanks for the reminder :) | 19:44 |
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| SotK | anything else to discuss? | 19:46 |
| fungi | nothing from me | 19:46 |
| diablo_rojo | Not that I can think of | 19:46 |
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| diablo_rojo | Thanks for hosting SotK :) | 19:47 |
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| SotK | you're welcome :) | 19:48 |
| SotK | thanks for your time folks | 19:48 |
| SotK | #endmeeting | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 19:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 30 19:48:25 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2018/storyboard.2018-05-30-19.02.html | 19:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2018/storyboard.2018-05-30-19.02.txt | 19:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2018/storyboard.2018-05-30-19.02.log.html | 19:48 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 20:59 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 30 21:00:03 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 21:00 |
| notmyname | who's here for the swift team meeting? | 21:00 |
| timburke | o/ | 21:00 |
| m_kazuhiro | o/ | 21:00 |
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| rledisez | o/ | 21:00 |
| kota_ | good morning | 21:00 |
| torgomatic | o/ | 21:00 |
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| tdasilva | hi | 21:00 |
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| zaitcev | o/ | 21:00 |
| notmyname | welcome. thanks for coming | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | agenda this week is at | 21:01 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 21:01 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | 2.18.0 is done! it's been tagged and released and is available for anyone! | 21:01 |
| acoles | hi | 21:01 |
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| kota_ | great | 21:02 |
| clayg | o/ | 21:02 |
| notmyname | I found a funny stat in the code related to the release | 21:02 |
| clayg | 2.18 is old news. 2.19 is going to be awesome. | 21:02 |
| notmyname | lol | 21:02 |
| kota_ | lol | 21:03 |
| m_kazuhiro | lol | 21:03 |
| notmyname | feature/deep was huge and took a lot of concentration. but since it landed (may 18), we've landed 89 commits (including merge commits). 51 not including merges | 21:03 |
| notmyname | more than 7 commits per day, on average | 21:03 |
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| timburke | merge all the things! | 21:04 |
| notmyname | (from `git shortlog -nes "@{May 18, 2018}"..`) | 21:04 |
| clayg | on a roll! | 21:04 |
| notmyname | #topic summit recap | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit recap (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:04 | |
| notmyname | last week I was at the openstack summit in vancouver with kota_ and mattoliverau and m_kazuhiro and rledisez and csatari | 21:05 |
| notmyname | * cschwede | 21:05 |
| notmyname | and even mahatic was there! | 21:05 |
| notmyname | we had a great time | 21:05 |
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| notmyname | I thought the summit was very good (also, I had no jet lag and wasn't there the whole week) | 21:05 |
| mattoliverau | Yeah it was great | 21:05 |
| clayg | sounds awesome! what a great group of folks! sorry we missed ya'll! | 21:06 |
| notmyname | I've talked to just about all of you, I think, about what happened there | 21:06 |
| clayg | see you in Denver, tho I hope!? | 21:06 |
| notmyname | lots of interesting conversations | 21:06 |
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| notmyname | there was a lot of encouraging feedback on what's going on in swift. | 21:06 |
| notmyname | lot's of people are using it (and finding more ways to use it more) | 21:07 |
| notmyname | and there were even some new faces that turned up at the project onboarding session | 21:07 |
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| notmyname | I'm not sure what level of participation they'll have, but here's hoping we'll have a few more active contributors :-) | 21:08 |
| kota_ | +1, hope it | 21:08 |
| notmyname | so yeah... like clayg, the next time together is in denver at the ptg | 21:08 |
| mattoliverau | Let's keep an eye out for them and support them if and when they turn up :) | 21:09 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: yes! | 21:09 |
| notmyname | I hope you've all signed up for the ptg. I think the early registration deadline has passed | 21:09 |
| mattoliverau | Not that we wouldn't anyway, great group of peeps here :) | 21:09 |
| notmyname | #link https://www.openstack.org/ptg | 21:09 |
| mattoliverau | My baby is officially due on the Monday of the ptg (10th) so I won't be there :( | 21:10 |
| zaitcev | I paid $199 | 21:10 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: I *guess* that's ok | 21:10 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: yep. that's the cheap price | 21:10 |
| kota_ | mattoliverau: congraturations! | 21:10 |
| notmyname | #topic proposal for changing reviews | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "proposal for changing reviews (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:11 | |
| mattoliverau | Oh yeah, I'll miss seeing you all, but marriage and new baby over work :) | 21:11 |
| kota_ | congratulations | 21:11 |
| notmyname | I've got a proposal I'd like to make and talk about with everyone | 21:11 |
| clayg | zaitcev: i also paid the $200 - so hopefully we're all set! | 21:12 |
| clayg | mattoliverau: congrats | 21:12 |
| clayg | notmyname: sounds ominous | 21:12 |
| notmyname | I propose we change our review/approval policy to allowing one core +2 before a +A for merge. (of course, a core could ask for other reviews too, if needed) | 21:12 |
| tdasilva | clayg: that was just the first installment | 21:12 |
| notmyname | I would like to know your thoughts on changing the review policy | 21:13 |
| clayg | tdasilva: lol | 21:13 |
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| clayg | notmyname: so the question is do we have any cores right now that we don't want to +A any patch they happen to find and like? | 21:13 |
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| timburke | seems reasonable, particularly given (1) the limited review bandwidth we have and (2) the fact that most changes are coming from people i already trust to write good code anyway | 21:14 |
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| torgomatic | I think it's a good experiment to try for the next year or so. We've been favoring stability over progress, and IMO the balance is a little too far towards stability. | 21:14 |
| notmyname | clayg: it's ok. I can promise not to review stuff, if that helps ;-) | 21:14 |
| clayg | notmyname: or is the question - will we in the future have a core that might not know when it's appropriate to +A vs. asking for more eyes? | 21:14 |
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| torgomatic | If we end up with too little stability, we can always switch back. | 21:14 |
| zaitcev | notmyname: I'm against the single +2. I even found mistakes that acoles made, although very rarely. | 21:15 |
| clayg | timburke: +2 on a lot of patches from trusted authors that know how to write good swift patches! | 21:15 |
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| clayg | zaitcev: I'll definately grant that I've had a +2 sitting on a timburke patch that acoles came around and -1'd for good reason (would have been a lp bug #) | 21:16 |
| clayg | zaitcev: same goes for you catch stuff I missed as well | 21:16 |
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| notmyname | zaitcev: even in light of the way torgomatic phrased it? | 21:17 |
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| zaitcev | I suppose we can try | 21:18 |
| notmyname | more reviews will catch more bugs, true. but it's not like we can say "ok, so 5 +2s, and then we'll just not have any bugs at all". it's a balance between catching bugs and being able to land code | 21:18 |
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| clayg | notmyname: torgomatic: I'm open to running the experiment... but I almost think it's halfway a mind game and halfway just an extension of the "go ahead and +A docs" rule | 21:19 |
| zaitcev | okay | 21:19 |
| mattoliverau | We could try it, but still a little on the fence. Some patches like aways seem straight forward, yeah 1 +2 would be fine. Others more eyes the better. I guess this is what is meant tho, if more eyes are needed thats just a social/communication thing. | 21:19 |
| zaitcev | then I get Thiago to review PUT+POST and voila it's +A | 21:19 |
| zaitcev | ? | 21:19 |
| kota_ | sounds good experiment but i have same concern with zaitcev. | 21:19 |
| mattoliverau | clayg: +1 | 21:19 |
| clayg | we *constantly* say "if it's a good patch just go ahead and land it" but when it comes to putting code on master we're in reality all pretty conservative | 21:19 |
| rledisez | i feel like there should be some kind of "risk evaluation". a simple patch in proxy_logging middleware is ok with just one +2, while a patch in ring.py should wait for two +2. I guess you guys a reasonable enough to known when to ask a second opinion | 21:19 |
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| m_kazuhiro | rledisez: +1 | 21:21 |
| tdasilva | I'm ok with the change. I agree with statements from timburke (i.e., review bandwidth) and torgomatic (progress vs. stability). More then trust the people that write the code, I trust core reviewers *good judgment* to ask for a second opinion (or a second +2). Yes, mistakes will happen, and we might get some bugs that we wouldn't otherwise, but I'm hoping for more +s then -s with such a change. | 21:21 |
| timburke | i suppose there was also a (3) for me: i trust everyone here to recognize when a change is large enough in scope to demand a second review | 21:21 |
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| acoles | timburke: +! | 21:21 |
| acoles | gah I mean +1 | 21:21 |
| clayg | notmyname: i see two things as being true at the same time "sometimes code that should be +A'd sits there with a +2 instead of on master" and "merging code to master is scary and hard and more eyes is better" | 21:22 |
| notmyname | clayg: yeah | 21:22 |
| clayg | but w/e - I ain't SKERED! | 21:22 |
| notmyname | what if we had a standing agenda item in this meeting for "stuff you've reviewed and need to call out as big enough in scope to need more eyes"? | 21:23 |
| notmyname | I'd be worried that we'd be super conservative and a lot of stuff would end up there | 21:23 |
| clayg | If nothing else it might help us build some confidence. Look tdasilva merged zaitcev's patch and the sky didn't fall down! torgomatic wrote something good and acoles landed it! some random person wrote something useful and timburke merged it, then wrote 15 followup patches too boot! | 21:23 |
| notmyname | lol @ "then wrote 15 follow-up patches". so true ;-) | 21:24 |
| mattoliverau | It might, but only till people find their feet, and any new cores in the future I'd expect to be a little more conservative | 21:25 |
| notmyname | hmm... how does the vote option work again? | 21:26 |
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| clayg | honestly after so long with the 2 +2 rule I'm pretty fearful of a change - but I'm pretty sure some of that is just the devil you know... I think notmyname is right to push us to question status quo... but I don't much care for moved cheese if I'm entirely honest | 21:27 |
| clayg | luckily - we can do whatever we want and change our mind later - we're running this banana stand! | 21:27 |
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| notmyname | so many american/english/clay idioms ;-) | 21:27 |
| clayg | probably the correct answer is 1.5 +2's | 21:28 |
| mattoliverau | I just assume it's a clayism :p | 21:28 |
| clayg | acahcahcphap - that's 3!? of course the correct answer is 3! | 21:28 |
| notmyname | "wait!? clayg says we're moving the banana stands now?", probably kota_ and rledisez right now ;-) | 21:28 |
| torgomatic | It might be worth waiting some time until calling a vote. This idea was only introduced ~25 minutes ago, so I'd bet that proper consideration would take some time. | 21:28 |
| acoles | the devil is in the cheesy banana details! | 21:28 |
| kota_ | lol | 21:28 |
| rledisez | :D | 21:28 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: yeah, that was one of my options I'm trying to figure out | 21:28 |
| clayg | torgomatic: we talk about this EVERY time we look at code inventory and feel bad we don't have more better/mergeable changes | 21:29 |
| acoles | It might be worth somehow articulating some expectations e.g. 'API changes ought to require more review than test changes', 'ring.py may require more review than ring.rst' | 21:30 |
| tdasilva | heh... | 21:30 |
| torgomatic | clayg: in person, yes, but this is the first time I know of that it's been brought up in a meeting. | 21:30 |
| torgomatic | If that's wrong, then disregard what I said about waiting. | 21:30 |
| kota_ | +1 for acoles | 21:30 |
| clayg | it's so easy to get caught up trying to fix up something on a patch and forget to check for docstrings... | 21:30 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: that's true. but it's also all the same people who are in-person and talk about it | 21:31 |
| notmyname | #vote should a single +2 be ok for landing a patch on master? yes, no, wait | 21:31 |
| notmyname | bah | 21:31 |
| notmyname | that didn't work | 21:31 |
| kota_ | test and docs are easy to get single +2 and it will work with the rule proposed. | 21:31 |
| notmyname | I mean, "yes, I'm ok with this", "no, I'm not ok with this", and "I'd like to wait a week and say yes or no at next week's meeting" | 21:32 |
| mattoliverau | To help lower the number of bugs introduced we could require 2 +2s when close to a release, tho we do release often | 21:32 |
| notmyname | #startvote should a single +2 be ok for landing a patch on master? yes, no, wait | 21:32 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: should a single +2 be ok for landing a patch on master? Valid vote options are yes, no, wait. | 21:32 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 21:32 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: it's #startvote | 21:32 |
| kota_ | the design change, I'm still feeling we need more than single +2, IMHO. | 21:32 |
| notmyname | yay! | 21:32 |
| torgomatic | #vote yes | 21:32 |
| tdasilva | #vote yes | 21:32 |
| timburke | #vote yes | 21:33 |
| m_kazuhiro | #vote yes | 21:33 |
| clayg | #vote eys | 21:33 |
| openstack | clayg: eys is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no, wait. | 21:33 |
| tdasilva | lol | 21:33 |
| kota_ | lol | 21:33 |
| mattoliverau | Lol | 21:33 |
| tdasilva | aye | 21:33 |
| kota_ | #vote yes | 21:33 |
| acoles | clayg: did you mean 'aye' :P | 21:33 |
| acoles | #vote yes | 21:33 |
| clayg | #yes | 21:33 |
| clayg | lol | 21:33 |
| clayg | #vote yes | 21:33 |
| mattoliverau | Im ok with yes knowing the social conventions we've been talking about | 21:33 |
| kota_ | but I like that we still have chances to get more reviews for large (or design change) patches. | 21:34 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: rledisez: mattoliverau: ? | 21:34 |
| mattoliverau | #vote yes | 21:34 |
| acoles | mattoliverau: thats a #it_depends | 21:34 |
| rledisez | #vote yes | 21:34 |
| mattoliverau | Yeah kinda, but I'll get off the fence, we can always go back, and trying just after a release is the best time :) | 21:34 |
| zaitcev | #vote yes | 21:35 |
| notmyname | #vote yes | 21:35 |
| clayg | kota_: mattoliverau: do you think we could articulate some explicit expectations? top-level doc in repo? expand review_guidelines.rst? | 21:35 |
| notmyname | #endvote | 21:35 |
| openstack | Voted on "should a single +2 be ok for landing a patch on master?" Results are | 21:35 |
| openstack | yes (11): rledisez, notmyname, acoles, tdasilva, kota_, torgomatic, m_kazuhiro, mattoliverau, zaitcev, clayg, timburke | 21:35 |
| kota_ | clayg: review_guidelines sounds nice to write down | 21:35 |
| notmyname | TBH, I didn't expect that. I expected to bring it up and then wait a week. I didn't expect it to have broad support like this | 21:35 |
| kota_ | or something like principle? | 21:35 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: just to make it clarify, this would also affect other repos (i.e., python-swiftclient) | 21:36 |
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| notmyname | #agreed a single +2 s sufficient for landing a patch. core reviewers are expected to use their best judgement as to when other reviewers should be called in to give additional reviews | 21:36 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: yes | 21:36 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: ie, all the code repos we manage | 21:36 |
| clayg | notmyname: can you write something up - email list - or at least follow up to get kota_ or mattoliverau to start on an update to guidelines? | 21:37 |
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| mattoliverau | Yeah, being clear if great. And I know it isn't a simple rule. This is ok, this isn't. But just so something is written somewhere :) | 21:37 |
| notmyname | clayg: yep | 21:37 |
| clayg | Like I think we #agree that we should pursue the change - but there HAS to be some sort of ... announcement or something - we've been doing it one way forever | 21:37 |
| notmyname | and to be clear, this is really just our social convention we choose to follow. there is no technical enforcement of this or any other review policy | 21:37 |
| clayg | notmyname: +A | 21:38 |
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| tdasilva | and any one should feel free to bring it up again in the future if they think we need to tinker with it again.... | 21:38 |
| notmyname | yes. I'll write up something. adding it to review and contributor guidelines is good. a ML post is good too, but will need to be a little more carefully worded | 21:39 |
| clayg | it's all mind games - it'll be good for us - once we get used to the idea that we can come to a patch with no other reviews and if it makes swift better we can put it on master right then and there (subject gate backlog) - I think it will be empowering to reviews and authors both! | 21:39 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: yes, absolutely | 21:39 |
| notmyname | clayg: right! that's the way to think! :-) | 21:39 |
| notmyname | #topic events | 21:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "events (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:39 | |
| clayg | tdasilva: in fact we should probably PLAN to have a retrospective | 21:39 |
| notmyname | all right. last topic | 21:39 |
| notmyname | clayg: tdasilva: at the PTG in denver! | 21:40 |
| tdasilva | clayg: good PTG topic | 21:40 |
| notmyname | we've already discussed the PTG | 21:40 |
| acoles | just after the bugfest ;) | 21:40 |
| tdasilva | lol | 21:40 |
| notmyname | but tdasilva pointed out another conveference we should consider going to | 21:40 |
| notmyname | #link https://mountpoint.io | 21:40 |
| rledisez | one question about PTG, do we know the schedule yet? will it be, as usual, 2 days cross-project and 3 days of pure swift stuff? | 21:40 |
| notmyname | looks very interesting, and I'll definitely be looking at it more | 21:40 |
| rledisez | alecuyer and I got tickets, we are waiting to book plane and hotel | 21:40 |
| notmyname | rledisez: likely | 21:40 |
| clayg | rledisez: i'm SO sorry you guys missed Dublin - it was a snowy mess | 21:41 |
| tdasilva | rledisez: for PTG or mountpoint.io? | 21:41 |
| notmyname | rledisez: or rather, I assume so because I have no reason to think otherwise | 21:41 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: can you give any more info on the mountpoint conference? | 21:41 |
| rledisez | yeah, hopefuly, no snow strom in denver in september. maybe sand storm? :D | 21:41 |
| mattoliverau | Oh mountpoint sounds interesting | 21:42 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: yeah, that's a new conference being promoted to talk about opensource SDS and they are looking forward to seeing Swift talks proposed | 21:42 |
| clayg | tdasilva: cool find bro! | 21:43 |
| mattoliverau | I assume it's in the US | 21:43 |
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| tdasilva | Vancouver | 21:43 |
| notmyname | it's in vancouver! | 21:43 |
| mattoliverau | Oh cool | 21:43 |
| mattoliverau | I love Vancouver | 21:43 |
| kota_ | lol | 21:43 |
| clayg | i suggest that notmyname should go | 21:44 |
| tdasilva | #startvote ;) | 21:45 |
| notmyname | I suggest you take that up with mrs notmyname ;-) | 21:45 |
| openstack | Only the meeting chair may start a vote. | 21:45 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: lol | 21:45 |
| notmyname | #topic open | 21:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:45 | |
| notmyname | anything else to bring up this week? | 21:45 |
| acoles | notmyname: I suggest you take mrs notmyname | 21:45 |
| kota_ | how much cost will it require per person for mountpoint? | 21:45 |
| notmyname | acoles: yeah, actually. that's a great idea :-) | 21:45 |
| notmyname | kota_: I couldn't find it | 21:45 |
| kota_ | notmyname: same with me, tdasilva may know something | 21:46 |
| timburke | oh yeah, speaking of code review policy, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-May/130802.html seemed to spark an interesting discussion | 21:46 |
| tdasilva | i can find that out | 21:46 |
| mattoliverau | Sounds great, is love to go, but not till post baby and if I can sell it to SUSE, who aren't really swift focused | 21:46 |
| mattoliverau | *I'd | 21:46 |
| tdasilva | will mention in #openstack-swift channel when i find out | 21:46 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: thank you | 21:46 |
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| kota_ | timburke: i also found the nitpicking thread | 21:46 |
| notmyname | thanks again, everyone, for the final push to get 2.18.0 landed | 21:47 |
| kota_ | timburke: thanks! | 21:47 |
| notmyname | so... on the nitpicking thread | 21:47 |
| m_kazuhiro | kota_: I found "Registration costs $25 per person. " https://www.regonline.com/registration/dialogs/regtypedetails.aspx?EventId=2447527&RegTypeId=509661 | 21:48 |
| notmyname | my first reaction is "oh, we don't have a problem with that. that's pretty much what we do anyway (the guidelines)." | 21:48 |
| notmyname | m_kazuhiro: thanks! | 21:48 |
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| notmyname | however, then I realize that of course *I* don't think we have a problem with that. it's actually not my place to say if we have a nitpicking problem or not | 21:48 |
| kota_ | m_kazuhiro: thx | 21:48 |
| mattoliverau | That's cheap, how long does it go for? | 21:49 |
| tdasilva | 2 days | 21:49 |
| notmyname | that is, we've all got a position of "power" in the community, so it's easy for us to claim there's no problem in the community | 21:49 |
| mattoliverau | Oh, that's a long way to go for 2 days | 21:49 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: but, you're in vancouver, so that's nice | 21:49 |
| tdasilva | but mind you that it's happening just before ossummit, so most folks stay for that | 21:49 |
| tdasilva | and that costs more, i believe | 21:49 |
| mattoliverau | That is true | 21:49 |
| tdasilva | but i guess one could also propose talks to ossummit | 21:50 |
| mattoliverau | Oh yeah, but thats still a good solution, SUSE is pro OSS conferences ;) | 21:50 |
| notmyname | so my point is, re the nitpicking, we need to realize there may be a problem. and we need to pay attention when people come into our group to make a contribution and realize what we see as normal others may find quite hostil | 21:50 |
| clayg | notmyname: that's fair, but it's also easy for an outsider with less experience to misjudge the cost of "merging w/o a test/doc/etc" | 21:51 |
| notmyname | so if someone has an issue, please feel free to say something to me (privately or otherwise) and remember that we were all once new ourselves :-) | 21:51 |
| notmyname | clayg: yep. doesn't mean we land bad code | 21:51 |
| notmyname | the ML thread reminds me of the late night hackathon conversation we had as a group about talking in IRC and how difficult than can be for some people | 21:52 |
| acoles | don't we give a new contributor their first unit test for free? | 21:52 |
| mattoliverau | Lol | 21:52 |
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| notmyname | mostly that we all have very very different perspectives on social cross-cultural interations in potentially non-native languages | 21:52 |
| kota_ | :P | 21:53 |
| notmyname | acoles: lol | 21:53 |
| notmyname | all right. anything else? or are we done for this meeting? | 21:53 |
| clayg | acoles: that's a good deal! | 21:54 |
| mattoliverau | Done, I'm hungry :p | 21:54 |
| acoles | I was half serious | 21:54 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: :-) | 21:54 |
| acoles | rather than -1 for no test I might rite the test to encourage future behaviour | 21:54 |
| acoles | or even *write* a test | 21:54 |
| notmyname | acoles: that's really good | 21:54 |
| notmyname | write a right test? | 21:54 |
| acoles | but I'm not promising ;) | 21:55 |
| notmyname | is that your right? | 21:55 |
| notmyname | ok ok ok | 21:55 |
| acoles | notmyname: right! | 21:55 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 21:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 30 21:55:13 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2018/swift.2018-05-30-21.00.html | 21:55 |
| timburke | the writing a right test rite | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2018/swift.2018-05-30-21.00.txt | 21:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2018/swift.2018-05-30-21.00.log.html | 21:55 |
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