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| ZacharyMa | @Slawek Kaplonski | 01:30 |
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| mkrai | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
| mkrai | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-12-12_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 03:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mkrai. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| mkrai | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
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| mkrai | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| kevinz | o/ | 03:01 |
| mkrai | Hi kevinz | 03:01 |
| kevinz | Hi mkrai | 03:01 |
| mkrai | I was wondering if anyone would join | 03:01 |
| mkrai | Thank you joining the meeting kevinz | 03:01 |
| mkrai | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| mkrai | Hongbin is on vacation between Dec 11 - 31. Madhuri will cover the PTL role during this time. | 03:02 |
| kevinz | Thanks mkrai | 03:02 |
| mkrai | Pleasure is all mine :) | 03:02 |
| mkrai | Do you have any announcement? | 03:03 |
| kevinz | I don't have | 03:03 |
| mkrai | Ok | 03:03 |
| mkrai | #topic Review Action Items | 03:03 |
| mkrai | None | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
| mkrai | #topic Open discussion | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
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| mkrai | I think we both can update about our task and finish the meeting early | 03:03 |
| kevinz | OK | 03:03 |
| mkrai | kevinz: Would you like to go first? | 03:04 |
| kevinz | sure | 03:04 |
| mkrai | Thank you | 03:04 |
| kevinz | I tried cinder multiple attach feature, and ask cinder upstream | 03:04 |
| kevinz | They don't have a volume driver that support multiple attach now until Nova finish multiple attach BP | 03:05 |
| kevinz | This BP I will track more | 03:05 |
| mkrai | Have you already written the code? | 03:06 |
| mkrai | Or was it just a PoC? | 03:06 |
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| kevinz | Just a POC, I find it hard to write the code. Will ask Cinder upstream for more help | 03:06 |
| mkrai | Ok do you the link for the blueprint? | 03:07 |
| mkrai | in nova or cinder ? | 03:07 |
| kevinz | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-volume-multi-attach | 03:07 |
| kevinz | hongbin has created one | 03:07 |
| kevinz | He put some links in the BP | 03:07 |
| mkrai | Ok I will see it | 03:08 |
| mkrai | Thanks for the link | 03:08 |
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| mkrai | Anything else you want to update? | 03:08 |
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| kevinz | Now for Capsule volume attach, I consider to use "--volume-from" to as interim method | 03:08 |
| kevinz | I will do the volume attach for capsule this week | 03:09 |
| kevinz | That's all from my side :-) | 03:09 |
| mkrai | Sounds good | 03:09 |
| mkrai | Thank you for working on it | 03:09 |
| kevinz | my pleasure mkrai | 03:09 |
| mkrai | I will now give a short update as I haven't worked much last week :) | 03:09 |
| mkrai | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/499534/ | 03:10 |
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| mkrai | I was working on adding the Clear COntainer support in Zun | 03:10 |
| mkrai | The patch is now ready to be merged | 03:10 |
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| kevinz | Cool. I will try it | 03:10 |
| mkrai | But I see Hongbin's comment about the kata containers | 03:10 |
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| mkrai | kevinz: kata containers will replace clear containers | 03:11 |
| mkrai | So hongbin's concern is whether we should merge this or not | 03:11 |
| kevinz | mkrai: yeah, congratulations to Kata and CC | 03:11 |
| mkrai | kevinz: WDYT about it ? | 03:11 |
| mkrai | kevinz: Thank you :) | 03:11 |
| kevinz | Actually It attract more attention for OpenStack foundation | 03:12 |
| mkrai | I think that we can merge this for now as kata containers will take time to be ready to use | 03:12 |
| mkrai | Yes I agree | 03:12 |
| mkrai | And then later we can update to use Kata directly | 03:12 |
| mkrai | Not CC | 03:13 |
| kevinz | Yeah, do you and hyper plan to merge the runtime code? | 03:13 |
| mkrai | are you asking about the Zun code? | 03:13 |
| kevinz | Or just leave runtime code separately and add one same layer as interface | 03:13 |
| mkrai | Or kata container code? | 03:13 |
| kevinz | kata container code | 03:13 |
| mkrai | Ok the idea is to merge them | 03:14 |
| mkrai | But I haven't seen the code yet | 03:14 |
| kevinz | I think it will take long time? | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Yes I also think so | 03:14 |
| mkrai | I will do the research and post my comment on the patch | 03:14 |
| kevinz | So IMO I think we could merge CC in Zun and waiting for Kata ready and then replace | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Yes agree | 03:15 |
| kevinz | As we are not sure when Kata will ready | 03:15 |
| mkrai | Ok I will post our decision on the patch | 03:15 |
| mkrai | Thanks kevinz | 03:15 |
| kevinz | mkrai: Thanks | 03:15 |
| kevinz | :-) | 03:15 |
| mkrai | Do you have anything else to discuss? | 03:15 |
| kevinz | That's all from me | 03:16 |
| mkrai | Ok thanks kevinz for joining the meeting | 03:16 |
| mkrai | See you next week | 03:16 |
| kevinz | see you | 03:16 |
| mkrai | #endmeeting | 03:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 03:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 03:16:30 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-12-12-03.00.html | 03:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-12-12-03.00.txt | 03:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-12-12-03.00.log.html | 03:16 |
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| tpatil | Hi | 04:00 |
| tpatil | Sampath is not available today so I will chair today's Masakari meeting | 04:00 |
| tpatil | Anyone from masakari team? | 04:01 |
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| tpatil | I got an email from rkmrHonjo that he won't join today's Masakari meeting as well | 04:03 |
| niraj_singh | hi | 04:03 |
| tpatil | niraj_singh: Hi | 04:03 |
| sagara | hi | 04:03 |
| tpatil | Hi | 04:04 |
| tpatil | Should we start masakari meeting? There are only 3 participants | 04:04 |
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| sagara | tpatil: Let's start it | 04:06 |
| tpatil | ok | 04:06 |
| tpatil | #startmeeting masakari | 04:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 04:06:57 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tpatil. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 04:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 04:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'masakari' | 04:07 |
| abhishekk | o/ | 04:07 |
| tpatil | abhishekk: Hi | 04:07 |
| abhishekk | hi tushar san | 04:07 |
| tpatil | #topic High priority items | 04:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority items (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:07 | |
| sagara | abhishekk: Hi | 04:07 |
| abhishekk | sagara san: hi | 04:07 |
| tpatil | Any high priority items to be discussed? | 04:07 |
| sagara | nothing from me | 04:08 |
| tpatil | No, let's move to the next agenda topic | 04:08 |
| tpatil | #topic Bugs (stuck/critical) | 04:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (stuck/critical) (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:08 | |
| tpatil | LP bug #1721742 patch got merged | 04:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1721742 in masakari "Masakari will fail to recovery instances on failure host if instance's task_state is not none" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721742 - Assigned to takahara.kengo (takahara.kengo) | 04:09 |
| tpatil | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/515013/ | 04:09 |
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| tpatil | No new bugs are reported | 04:10 |
| tpatil | #topic Discussion points | 04:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion points (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:10 | |
| tpatil | Horizon Plugin | 04:10 |
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| tpatil | niraj_singh: Do you have any update? | 04:11 |
| tpatil | In the last week masakari-dashboard repo was created | 04:11 |
| tpatil | #link https://github.com/openstack/masakari-dashboard | 04:11 |
| tpatil | now I think niraj_singh is working on creating a ui-cookiecutter patch | 04:12 |
| niraj_singh | today i will submit the patch with basic files. | 04:12 |
| niraj_singh | yes | 04:12 |
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| tpatil | niraj_singh: Ok, thanks for the update | 04:12 |
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| tpatil | Install guide document | 04:13 |
| tpatil | All patches uploaded by abhishekk are merged | 04:13 |
| abhishekk | yes, if anything else is remaining please let me know | 04:13 |
| tpatil | abhishekk: Sure | 04:14 |
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| tpatil | Recovery method customization | 04:14 |
| tpatil | Please review specs | 04:16 |
| tpatil | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/458023/ | 04:16 |
| tpatil | Ansible support for Masakari | 04:16 |
| tpatil | I heard from Dinesh there is no much progress on this item yet | 04:18 |
| tpatil | Call Force down API when host-failure will be notified | 04:18 |
| tpatil | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/526598/ | 04:18 |
| tpatil | Waiting for author to reply to my review comment | 04:19 |
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| tpatil | That's the end of the topics from the agenda list | 04:21 |
| tpatil | Anyone wants to bring any other topic for discussion? | 04:21 |
| abhishekk | Nothing from my side | 04:21 |
| sagara | nothing | 04:22 |
| tpatil | ok, Let's end this meeting | 04:22 |
| tpatil | Thank you, All | 04:22 |
| tpatil | #endmeeting | 04:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 04:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 04:22:33 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-12-12-04.06.html | 04:22 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-12-12-04.06.txt | 04:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-12-12-04.06.log.html | 04:22 |
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| ruijie | #startmeeting senlin | 13:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 13:04:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ruijie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | hi | 13:08 |
| ruijie | evening Qiming | 13:08 |
| elynn | Hi | 13:09 |
| ruijie | let's get started :) | 13:10 |
| ruijie | we catch up with the release cycle last week | 13:10 |
| ruijie | the senlinclient and senlin had Q2 had released | 13:10 |
| elynn | We are in Q3 now? | 13:11 |
| ruijie | yes elynn | 13:12 |
| elynn | time is so fast | 13:12 |
| ruijie | almost 2018 ~ | 13:12 |
| ruijie | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/523965/ the lifecycle spec has updates | 13:13 |
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| ruijie | so we may need to extend the deletion policy to support the lifecycle hook | 13:14 |
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| ruijie | last time, we mentioned the improvement of the listener in health manager | 13:16 |
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| ruijie | I am going to handle it and try to give an spec/detail later | 13:16 |
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| elynn | great | 13:18 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:18 |
| ruijie | :) | 13:19 |
| ruijie | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/515321/ | 13:19 |
| elynn | Refactor the patch last week | 13:20 |
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| elynn | almost the same as the demo one, haven't add any new features for now. | 13:21 |
| Qiming | haven't done a in-depth review yet, will do | 13:21 |
| elynn | xuefeng mentioned that should rename the senlin.kubernetes.node to senlin.kubernetes.worker | 13:22 |
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| elynn | Sounds good, will do it in next patchiest. | 13:22 |
| ruijie | some limitations need to be added? | 13:24 |
| ruijie | like the min size of the cm cluster should be 1 | 13:24 |
| elynn | yes, min and max size should be 1. | 13:24 |
| elynn | Have add those check for now. | 13:24 |
| elynn | We can do that in do_cluster_create. | 13:25 |
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| elynn | Just not get much time for validation and necessary check. | 13:25 |
| elynn | or maybe in do_validation. | 13:26 |
| ruijie | cool!! | 13:26 |
| elynn | Add some todo in TODO.md | 13:26 |
| elynn | Maybe we can merge this draft resource first and do a quick iteration. | 13:28 |
| elynn | if you think it's ready. | 13:28 |
| elynn | When it's mature, we can put it to the main code of senlin. | 13:29 |
| ruijie | sure elynn, will review it | 13:29 |
| ruijie | XueFeng had a topic about the interaction of senlin and k8s on last weekly meeting | 13:31 |
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| elynn | Any comments from him? | 13:32 |
| ruijie | no, the time was run out ~ | 13:32 |
| elynn | Ah, I recalled. | 13:33 |
| elynn | He suggest to discuss it in senlin channel later. | 13:33 |
| ruijie | we can talk about that with him later :) | 13:35 |
| elynn | sure | 13:36 |
| ruijie | hi Qiming, how about the book now? | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | revising | 13:36 |
| Qiming | a lot contents added to the networking chapter | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | it is a huge topic but I cannot cover them all | 13:37 |
| Qiming | and ... I myself is not an expert in that field | 13:37 |
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| ruijie_ | computer went down .. | 13:40 |
| ruijie_ | great ! hope to read it :) | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | wait ... | 13:42 |
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| ruijie_ | hah, yes sure | 13:43 |
| ruijie_ | so, do we have other topics for today? | 13:43 |
| elynn | he you will give you a table of contents and ask for money later :) | 13:43 |
| ruijie_ | lol | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | sure, I'll do | 13:45 |
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| ruijie_ | okay, Gentlemen, thanks for joining and happy Double 12 :) | 13:47 |
| Qiming | :D | 13:47 |
| ruijie_ | good night :) | 13:48 |
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| ruijie_ | #endmeeting | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | has to be ended by 'ruijie', not 'ruijie_' | 13:49 |
| ruijie_ | emm | 13:49 |
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| ruijie | #endmeeting | 13:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 13:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 13:50:20 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-12-12-13.04.html | 13:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-12-12-13.04.txt | 13:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-12-12-13.04.log.html | 13:50 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting neutron_ci | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 16:00:40 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci' | 16:00 |
| jlibosva | o/ | 16:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | o/ | 16:00 |
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| haleyb | hi | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | #topic Actions from prev meeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from prev meeting (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:01 | |
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| ihrachys | "ihrachys to make sure legacy tempest jobs are gone in gate queue" | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | done: https://review.openstack.org/525754 | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | "ihrachys to update grafana for new non-legacy job names" | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | done: https://review.openstack.org/525759 | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | "jlibosva to post wishlist bugs for fullstack improvements (reuse db dump; reuse env per class)" | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, ? | 16:02 |
| * jlibosva sux | 16:02 | |
| ihrachys | gotcha | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | #action jlibosva to post wishlist bugs for fullstack improvements (reuse db dump; reuse env per class) | 16:02 |
| jlibosva | can you flip it pls as | 16:02 |
| jlibosva | yeah that :) | 16:02 |
| jlibosva | thanks | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | these are all AIs we had | 16:03 |
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| ihrachys | I will flip the order of topics a bit this time | 16:03 |
| ihrachys | #topic Tempest plugin | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest plugin (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:03 | |
| ihrachys | we made quite some progress there | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | for one, tempest in-tree tests are gone: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/506672/ | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | we track remaining bits in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-tempest-plugin-job-move | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | I believe there are two main bits now left | 16:06 |
| ihrachys | 1. completely remove legacy jobs from infra repos (this requires to first move them into our stable branches); and | 16:06 |
| ihrachys | 2. remove all remaining neutron/tests/tempest/ contents (this requires all consuming projects to switch to new repo) | 16:06 |
| ihrachys | let's start from point 1 | 16:06 |
| ihrachys | I believe mlavalle was looking into it | 16:07 |
| mlavalle | I didn't make as much progress as I wanted on this | 16:07 |
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| ihrachys | this is the patch correct? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/525345/ | 16:07 |
| mlavalle | haleyb pointed to a tripleo job that I didn't include in my migration patch | 16:07 |
| mlavalle | ihrachys: yes, that's the patch | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | what's the issue with tripleo job? | 16:08 |
| mlavalle | I asked the infra team and EmilienM about that tripleo job | 16:08 |
| mlavalle | we don't need to migrate it | 16:09 |
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| ihrachys | right. because it's probably shared across projects | 16:09 |
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| mlavalle | but EmilienM would like us to run in our check queue | 16:09 |
| mlavalle | non voting | 16:09 |
| mlavalle | I am looking now into adding it | 16:09 |
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| ihrachys | but should we keep it in our tree? isn't it shared? | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | I believe if it's shared it then should live in a common place | 16:10 |
| mlavalle | no, we are not going to keep it in our tree | 16:10 |
| EmilienM | sorry, I'm in a meeting already | 16:10 |
| EmilienM | I'm happy to discuss offline later | 16:10 |
| mlavalle | EmilienM: no need to answer | 16:10 |
| mlavalle | disregard us | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | mlavalle, ok anyway, this is something that you will tackle one way or another | 16:11 |
| EmilienM | mlavalle: I can't disregard you :-) | 16:11 |
| haleyb | mlavalle: so it's an integrated gate job? | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | mlavalle, another issue I see there is that new non-legacy jobs are now voting for some that are non-voting for legacy | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | mlavalle, like fullstack or dvr-ha | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | mlavalle, we should make sure their voting state is same | 16:11 |
| mlavalle | ihrachys: I'll fithat | 16:11 |
| mlavalle | fix that | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | ok | 16:12 |
| ihrachys | once this is done, we should be able to clean up infra repos from all those jobs | 16:13 |
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| ihrachys | (well, after we backport the patch to stable) | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | we have something for -api here: https://review.openstack.org/516724 and here: https://review.openstack.org/516744 | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | but it will need refinement to clean up all those old jobs, not just -api | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | the next bullet point to cover is cleaning up in-tree remaining tempest code | 16:14 |
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| ihrachys | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-tempest-plugin-job-move line 28+ captured patches for projects that consume the code | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | that need to land before we can safely pull off the rug | 16:14 |
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| ihrachys | I would suggest we focus on just stadium participants | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | which would be vpnaas, midonet and dynamic-routing | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | all those patches are in bad shape / Jenkins-1 | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | I believe chandankumar planned to respin them | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | in one of those patches, suggestion was to add a devstack plugin to new plugin repo that could be used in subprojects to install tempest tests | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | here is the new devstack plugin: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/526044/ | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | is zuul feeling sick today?.. I see a lot of red across the board. | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | anyway... | 16:18 |
| haleyb | ihrachys: saw a note from infra on a timeout issue they're cahsing | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | we will need chandankumar to refresh those patches in light of new devstack plugin | 16:19 |
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| ihrachys | speaking of tempest plugin, there is also a suggestion to add designate-specific job here: | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/520233 | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | as a separate flavour | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | (so we would have dvr, linuxbridge, and designate) | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | and this is just to be able to run a single scenario https://review.openstack.org/#/c/520237/ | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | so I wonder, what do people think about it? | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | is it ok to add another one, or we should try to push it into an existing job? | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | if we push it, it would mean that we would have a designate enabled job (maybe voting in the future) in neutron gate | 16:22 |
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| ihrachys | since dvr/ha and linuxbridge jobs are shared with neutron repo | 16:22 |
| mlavalle | I like it | 16:22 |
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| mlavalle | I will review the patches later today | 16:23 |
| ihrachys | like adding a new job? | 16:23 |
| mlavalle | yes | 16:23 |
| ihrachys | it will execute same tests + one dns scenario. is it the plan? | 16:23 |
| ihrachys | or should we constraint it to the scenario? | 16:24 |
| mlavalle | I think the scenario is enough | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | ok, then line 80 in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/520233/8..9/.zuul.yaml should be refined | 16:25 |
| ihrachys | to include just dns scenario | 16:25 |
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| ihrachys | ok I think it's all we have for tempest plugin | 16:26 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Grafana | 16:26 |
| ihrachys | http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grafana (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:26 | |
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| ihrachys | now that scenarios are back at the board, we have them at 100%. nothing new. :) | 16:27 |
| ihrachys | fullstack is also sideways in 60-80% interval | 16:27 |
| ihrachys | nothing to talk about here, so moving on | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | #topic Scenarios | 16:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Scenarios (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:28 | |
| ihrachys | linuxbridge was affected by that iptables bug... looking where the fix is | 16:29 |
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| ihrachys | ok I think the bug was https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1719711 | 16:30 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1719711 in neutron "iptables failed to apply when binding a port with AGENT.debug_iptables_rules enabled" [High,Fix released] - Assigned to Brian Haley (brian-haley) | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | and looks like we merged the fix here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/523319/ | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | 3 days ago | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | it's definitely a lot more clean now: http://logs.openstack.org/19/523319/9/check/neutron-tempest-plugin-scenario-linuxbridge/3779380/logs/testr_results.html.gz | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | still, some failures | 16:31 |
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| ihrachys | both failures seem to suggest that security group rules not working? | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | because I see ping succeeds | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | so the expectation is probably that it shouldn't | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | I don't think we have a bug report for this | 16:33 |
| haleyb | and one is a test for protocol numbers? i would hope i didn't break something, or is this linuxbridge specific? | 16:33 |
| jlibosva | the scenario with ovs agent fails too | 16:34 |
| haleyb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1736674 ? | 16:34 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1736674 in OpenStack Security Advisory "sg rules are sometimes not applied" [Undecided,New] | 16:34 |
| jlibosva | so maybe? :) | 16:34 |
| jlibosva | or maybe I'm looking at wrong place | 16:35 |
| haleyb | related to recent qos change it seems? | 16:35 |
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| ihrachys | hm. it's weird how this bug was handled security wise | 16:35 |
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| ihrachys | jlibosva, I think it's the culprit | 16:37 |
| haleyb | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/449710/4/neutron/agent/l2/extensions/qos.py removed a try/except, perhaps there's something there? | 16:37 |
| ihrachys | thanks for the link | 16:37 |
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| haleyb | guess we should bump the severity of that bug | 16:38 |
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| ihrachys | I set to high | 16:38 |
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| ihrachys | and confirmed | 16:38 |
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| ihrachys | frickler, any updates about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1736674 ? | 16:40 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1736674 in neutron "sg rules are sometimes not applied" [High,Confirmed] | 16:40 |
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| ihrachys | oh wait, it's not you who reported it | 16:40 |
| ihrachys | sorry | 16:40 |
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| * mlavalle also sometimes mixes them up | 16:41 | |
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| ihrachys | mlavalle, oh actually it's same person :) | 16:42 |
| frickler | yes, its me :) | 16:42 |
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| mlavalle | that explains it :-) | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | Dr. confused me | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | frickler, so doc, will the patient live? | 16:42 |
| frickler | I found a patch that when reverted seems to fix the issue | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | any ideas what makes him sick? :) | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | frickler, is the issue 100% reproducible? | 16:43 |
| ihrachys | you mean https://review.openstack.org/#/c/449710/ right? | 16:43 |
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| frickler | yes, it seems to be 100% on my test node | 16:43 |
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| frickler | it also reproduced on my increased logging patch on the first attempt https://review.openstack.org/#/c/525934/ | 16:44 |
| frickler | but I don't have time to work on a proper fix currently, so would be great if someone could take over from here | 16:45 |
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| mlavalle | frickler: what is the patch that, when revereted, fixes this? | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/449710/4/neutron/agent/l2/extensions/qos.py | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | mlavalle, ^ | 16:45 |
| mlavalle | ok | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | we need a volunteer to drive it | 16:46 |
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| ihrachys | I admit I don't have cycles since I fight other CI failures in downstream | 16:46 |
| haleyb | i didn't see any tracebacks in the q-agt log | 16:46 |
| ihrachys | yeah q-agt and q-l3 are clean | 16:46 |
| frickler | it doesn't traceback | 16:46 |
| frickler | without my logging patch, it silently installs iptables rules and deletes them immediately again | 16:47 |
| ihrachys | could it be self.qos_driver.delete doing something nasty? | 16:47 |
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| frickler | see the logs in the bug | 16:47 |
| frickler | and with qos disabled, the bug disappears, too | 16:48 |
| ihrachys | right. qos rules, are any of them implemented with iptables? | 16:49 |
| mlavalle | I don't think so | 16:49 |
| ihrachys | dscp is actually | 16:49 |
| ihrachys | for linuxbridge at least | 16:49 |
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| ihrachys | https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/linuxbridge/agent/extension_drivers/qos_driver.py#L125-L137 | 16:51 |
| haleyb | i can look once i finish the linuxbridge ARP critical issue, unless someone beats me to it... | 16:51 |
| ihrachys | this is probably called now that we don't raise an exception | 16:51 |
| ihrachys | and this: https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/linuxbridge/agent/extension_drivers/qos_driver.py#L148-L152 | 16:52 |
| ihrachys | but jlibosva told it's in ovs too | 16:52 |
| jlibosva | nono, disregard | 16:52 |
| jlibosva | I clicked wrong link | 16:52 |
| jlibosva | I later checked and didn't find it in ov | 16:52 |
| jlibosva | ovs | 16:52 |
| jlibosva | I looked again in LB job | 16:52 |
| ihrachys | ok | 16:52 |
| ihrachys | so let's assume for now it's linuxbridge | 16:53 |
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| mlavalle | I have a one on one with slawek every Friday | 16:53 |
| ihrachys | I think those iptables lines for dscp are worth focusing on | 16:53 |
| mlavalle | I can discuss with him this week | 16:53 |
| ihrachys | mlavalle, yeah please pull him in. he should be aware of the code. | 16:53 |
| ihrachys | thanks! | 16:53 |
| mlavalle | so in the mean time, I'll assighn the bug to me | 16:53 |
| mlavalle | haleyb: is that ok? | 16:53 |
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| haleyb | mlavalle: sure. the iptables line might need some tweaking, seems it's installed in hex | 16:54 |
| haleyb | -A INPUT -j DSCP --set-dscp 0x0c | 16:54 |
| mlavalle | ok | 16:54 |
| haleyb | might be unrelated of course | 16:54 |
| mlavalle | will consider it | 16:54 |
| ihrachys | ok cool | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | thanks | 16:55 |
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| ihrachys | as for dvr flavor... | 16:55 |
| * haleyb ducks | 16:55 | |
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| ihrachys | http://logs.openstack.org/32/527032/1/check/neutron-tempest-plugin-dvr-multinode-scenario/8167f10/logs/testr_results.html.gz | 16:56 |
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| ihrachys | ok, so just east-west | 16:56 |
| ihrachys | I remember there was a bug for that... | 16:56 |
| ihrachys | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1717302 ? | 16:57 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1717302 in neutron "Tempest floatingip scenario tests failing on DVR Multinode setup with HA" [High,Confirmed] | 16:57 |
| ihrachys | is it the bug you mentioned haleyb ? | 16:57 |
| mlavalle | I think it is | 16:57 |
| ihrachys | probably not since it's ovs.. | 16:57 |
| ihrachys | but anyway. last thing I see there is Swami bailing out | 16:58 |
| haleyb | ihrachys: yes, and swami has no time and asked for help | 16:58 |
| ihrachys | has anyone picked it up? | 16:58 |
| jlibosva | Perhaps we could do the same with east-west tests what we did with fullstack? mark them as unstable to see where it will get us? | 16:58 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, good idea | 16:58 |
| ihrachys | I think if it's the last bit, it's worth it | 16:58 |
| ihrachys | then we can enable voting and have first victor | 16:58 |
| ihrachys | victory | 16:59 |
| jlibosva | it's actually haleyb's idea I think :) | 16:59 |
| ihrachys | haleyb, please assign the bug to yourself | 16:59 |
| ihrachys | haleyb, and please post a patch disabling the tests. works for you? | 16:59 |
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| haleyb | ihrachys: yes, we can do that as we chase the issue | 16:59 |
| ihrachys | #action haleyb to post patch disabling east-west tests | 16:59 |
| ihrachys | cool | 17:00 |
| ihrachys | we are sadly out of time | 17:00 |
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| ihrachys | next time we'll focus on fullstack | 17:00 |
| ihrachys | thanks folks! | 17:00 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 17:00:17 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-12-12-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-12-12-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-12-12-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| jlibosva | I'll try to do some work till next :) | 17:00 |
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| jlibosva | o/ | 17:00 |
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| lbragstad | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 18:00:01 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | agenda ^ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | ping ayoung, breton, cmurphy, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, lwanderley, kmalloc, rderose, rodrigods, samueldmq, spilla, aselius, dpar | 18:00 |
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| hrybacki | o/ | 18:00 |
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| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
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| tlam_ | o/ | 18:00 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:01 |
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| kmalloc | zzzz | 18:01 |
| spilla | o/ | 18:01 |
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| lbragstad | #topic PTG security SIG meeting | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG security SIG meeting (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| lbragstad | gagehugo: o/ | 18:02 |
| gagehugo | so | 18:03 |
| aselius | o/ | 18:03 |
| cleong | o/ | 18:03 |
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| gagehugo | the security team/SIG will likely be meeting at the PTG, and was wanting to know if keystone had anything they wanted to bring to attention | 18:03 |
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| gagehugo | anything that is cross-project or cross-collaberation | 18:04 |
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| gagehugo | if there is anything either let me or lhinds know | 18:05 |
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| gagehugo | that's all I got | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | nothing is coming to mind at the moment, the last i talked to the security folks i wanted to get an opinion on the policy roadmap we had for security | 18:05 |
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| gagehugo | I can bring that to the meeting thurday | 18:06 |
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| lbragstad | cool - i just wanted another set of eyes on it from a security perspective, nothing that's a hard requirement though | 18:06 |
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| lbragstad | gagehugo: anything else? | 18:06 |
| gagehugo | nope | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | #topic User defined project IDs | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User defined project IDs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:07 | |
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| lbragstad | ruan_he wanted to drive this topic during the meeting | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | but I don't see him online | 18:07 |
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| lbragstad | either way | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | several folks from Orange posted their usecases in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/323499/ | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | to keep the context in a single place | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | the previous reviews on that spec were asking for use cases | 18:08 |
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| gagehugo | I think we had one of the same use cases | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | but they also included a couple requirements | 18:08 |
| gagehugo | distributed keystones | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | yeah... | 18:08 |
| gagehugo | and it used to work in kilo? | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | that was news to me | 18:09 |
| gagehugo | or before | 18:09 |
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| lbragstad | i parsed the code base looking for the code that allowed that and i came up with nothing | 18:09 |
| gagehugo | yeah idk | 18:09 |
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| lbragstad | i looked through the project API dating back to diablo | 18:09 |
| kmalloc | wait, what? | 18:09 |
| kmalloc | it worked in kilo? | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | i couldn't find proof of that | 18:09 |
| gagehugo | it worked in an earlier release | 18:09 |
| kmalloc | unlikely | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | but i could have been looking in the wrong place? | 18:10 |
| kmalloc | i'll take a gander | 18:10 |
| kmalloc | but i seriously doubt it | 18:10 |
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| kmalloc | short of someone changing the code | 18:10 |
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| gagehugo | It may have broke in kilo | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | afaik, we never allowed project IDs to be specified over the API | 18:11 |
| gagehugo | since that is when it came up for us | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | oh - really? | 18:11 |
| gagehugo | so perhaps before then | 18:11 |
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| gagehugo | is when it worked? | 18:11 |
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| kmalloc | in v2 we allowed it | 18:11 |
| kmalloc | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/juno-eol/keystone/assignment/controllers.py#L114 | 18:12 |
| kmalloc | known reason we also discontinued v2 | 18:12 |
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| lbragstad | the review says the functionality worked in Juno https://review.openstack.org/#/c/323499/4/specs/keystone/backlog/admin-to-create-project-with-id.rst@77 | 18:12 |
| gagehugo | oh there we go | 18:12 |
| gagehugo | kmalloc nice | 18:12 |
| kmalloc | security | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | oh | 18:12 |
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| kmalloc | v3 NEVER supported it afaict | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:12 |
| gagehugo | interesting | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | that's consistent with everywhere i dug | 18:12 |
| tlam_ | yes, when we upgraded from Juno to Kilo, it stopped working, and it was one thing that was raised | 18:12 |
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| kmalloc | yep, v2 only | 18:13 |
| kmalloc | v3 never supported this. | 18:13 |
| kmalloc | looking at kilo now | 18:13 |
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| kmalloc | yep, in kilo v2 still supported it | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | ok - good to know | 18:14 |
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| kmalloc | tl;dr, moving to v3 disabled that support, v3 never supported it (confirmed back to grizzly) | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | cool | 18:15 |
| gagehugo | ah ok | 18:15 |
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| lbragstad | that's consistent with what i found with v3 support, too | 18:15 |
| knikolla | interesting | 18:15 |
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| kmalloc | and this was planned - it had a lot of implications for folks squatting on project ids, and that they weren't conforming to UUIDs (which is a requirement we started asserting for compatibility everywhere) | 18:16 |
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| kmalloc | if we support this we need to ensure / assert the ids are UUID conforming. | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | i'm curious what other folks think of the reproposed specification | 18:17 |
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| lbragstad | since it includes usecases | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | and requirements | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | also - if there are any alternatives that come out of it | 18:17 |
| kmalloc | so, the use-case for restoration of a deleted id, that can be soft deletes (cringe) | 18:17 |
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| lbragstad | or disable/enable | 18:18 |
| kmalloc | i also want to be clear, I don't want creation of specific ids to be a "general" like domain-admin concept. | 18:18 |
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| lbragstad | the other requirement i found interesting was the database replication restriction | 18:19 |
| kmalloc | the hard part here is *even* if the ids can be specified, across deployments -- it is not possible to guarantee the ID isn't used in another deployment | 18:20 |
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| kmalloc | and IDs must be unique within the keystone | 18:20 |
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| lbragstad | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/323499/4/specs/keystone/backlog/admin-to-create-project-with-id.rst@22 | 18:20 |
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| kmalloc | the only real solution i can think of is something like allow for a deployment to register a prefix or do a federated source of ids for resource subsystem | 18:21 |
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| lbragstad | register a prefix? | 18:22 |
| kmalloc | aka, France cloud (for example) starts with AAEECC | 18:22 |
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| kmalloc | so all projects have that, and no other cloud participating does. | 18:22 |
| kmalloc | it's soft enforcement | 18:22 |
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| breton | that's some half-done replication | 18:23 |
| kmalloc | i think we're going to simply run into issues where IDs are going to conflict and it will put us into a worse state than every deployment is random | 18:23 |
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| kmalloc | breton: no, look at the spec, no replication | 18:23 |
| breton | without all constraints a real replication has | 18:23 |
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| kmalloc | it can't happen. | 18:23 |
| kmalloc | so it's admin-created and it's rough | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | according to law the replication at the db layer can't happen | 18:24 |
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| kmalloc | I somehow doubt that is in-fact the law, i think it's overly cautious lawyering. but i can't change that. | 18:24 |
| kmalloc | if there was clear isolation of exactly what was replicated [separate DBs] | 18:24 |
| kmalloc | it probably would fly just fine | 18:25 |
| kmalloc | but cautious lawyers would probably still nix it | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | hmm | 18:25 |
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| lbragstad | i asked for a link there if it is public so we can dig into it a bit more | 18:25 |
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| kmalloc | now...... isolating resource is a big job | 18:26 |
| kmalloc | because FK issues | 18:26 |
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| kmalloc | we basically nixed that last cycle for "this is hell to make happen in a migration" | 18:27 |
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| lbragstad | yeah.. | 18:27 |
| kmalloc | i could probably spin up a patch that would isolate each subsystem behind a different DB connection so folks can run each subsystem in a different db. | 18:27 |
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| kmalloc | and our testing would simply be different dbs so no FKs would ever work. | 18:28 |
| kmalloc | but that is a lot of work. | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | yeah... | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | that feels heavy handed | 18:28 |
| kmalloc | the whole migration repos would need to be split up | 18:28 |
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| kmalloc | not the worst thing, just a "well....." | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | but - i'm curious to hear what people think of the reproposed spec | 18:28 |
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| kmalloc | i dislike it greatly | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | we've had it come up several times | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | from different people | 18:29 |
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| lbragstad | i'd like to find a solution or alternative that addresses the problem | 18:29 |
| kmalloc | but from a maintainability standpoint -- it doesn't solve problems, it mitigates some edge cases but causes a lot of headaches and i think we're going to see a lot of other requests ceom from it because it isn't really maintainable | 18:29 |
| kmalloc | as an operator | 18:29 |
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| kmalloc | the best solution is allowing for a centralized source of truth that keystones can reference for the IDs | 18:30 |
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| kmalloc | but E_WHAT_IS_THAT | 18:30 |
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| lbragstad | one of the other requirements is that authZ information can't come from the same place authN does | 18:30 |
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| lbragstad | regardless, let me know if you have questions on the spec, it'd be good to get the conversation started early | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | #topic | 18:33 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
| * lbragstad sigh | 18:33 | |
| lbragstad | #topic Unified limits API specification exception | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Unified limits API specification exception (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
| lbragstad | #link #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-December/125331.html | 18:33 |
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| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455709/ | 18:33 |
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| lbragstad | for those who missed it, we had a super productive conversation last friday around unified limits and the initial model to target for it | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | wxy: repropose the specification | 18:34 |
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| lbragstad | I submitted a specification freeze exception for it | 18:34 |
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| lbragstad | and based on what people say we can move forward with it this week | 18:34 |
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| lbragstad | if you missed the conversation in irc be sure to checkout | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-dev/%23openstack-dev.2017-12-08.log.html#t2017-12-08T15:00:28 | 18:35 |
| * lbragstad found it super helpful | 18:35 | |
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| lbragstad | #topic open discussion | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:36 | |
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| kmalloc | proposal: remove past keystohne meeting data from the etherpad when we roll over cycles | 18:36 |
| kmalloc | just to make the etherpad load less slowly. | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:37 |
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| lbragstad | yeah - we're up to 1582 lines | 18:37 |
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| lbragstad | when we have our last meeting to queens i'll back up the content and remove it | 18:38 |
| gagehugo | 09-27-16 meeting was jam packed | 18:38 |
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| lbragstad | yeah - stevemar had long meetings :) | 18:39 |
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| lbragstad | does anyone else have anything before we start office hours in 20 minutes? | 18:41 |
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| lbragstad | sounds good - thanks for coming | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | #endmeeting | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 18:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 18:42:06 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-12-12-18.00.html | 18:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-12-12-18.00.txt | 18:42 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-12-12-18.00.log.html | 18:42 |
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| clarkb | anyone here for the infra meeting? | 19:01 |
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| fungi | yup | 19:01 |
| tobiash | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 19:01 |
| clarkb | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 19:01:29 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is clarkb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| clarkb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | #topic Announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| clarkb | It is now official dmsimard and frickler are infra root | 19:02 |
| dmsimard | \o | 19:02 |
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| pabelanger | welcome to the jungle! | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | yay! try not to delete the backup server! | 19:03 |
| fungi | the assistance is most heartily welcomed | 19:03 |
| pabelanger | lolo | 19:03 |
| frickler | o/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | at least, not by accident | 19:03 |
| clarkb | Other than that it is the time of year where those of us in the northern hemisphere end up sick and everyone is randomly on vacation or otherwise not working | 19:03 |
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| clarkb | mordred and I apparently have the plague (though I am getting over it finally) | 19:04 |
| clarkb | so ya stay healthy | 19:04 |
| pabelanger | +1 | 19:04 |
| clarkb | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | plenty of limes in my grog | 19:04 |
| fungi | #action fungi delete jenkins account -1 verify votes from open changes in gerrit and announce it | 19:04 |
| clarkb | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-12-05-19.01.txt Minutes from last meeting | 19:04 |
| fungi | i haven't done that yet. wanted to find a quiet time due to the number of code review events that's going to generate, and ended up busy with other things over the weekend | 19:04 |
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| clarkb | fungi: it also hasn't been very quiet when not weekend | 19:04 |
| fungi | now, for example, would not be a great time ;) | 19:05 |
| clarkb | #topic Specs approval | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/524024/ Top level project hosting | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | I've now reviewed this spec a few times. I think it is ready to be put up for council voting. I think others have managed to take a look as well | 19:06 |
| clarkb | What do we think? ready to push forward? | 19:06 |
| fungi | i think so | 19:06 |
| jeblair | as do i | 19:06 |
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| frickler | +1 | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | I haven't look at the latest, but think there is momentum around it | 19:07 |
| pabelanger | plan to look again after meeting | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | fyi, i just put the mailman multi-site patches up for review | 19:07 |
| fungi | the diff from ps1 is pretty small | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | there is opportunity for other folks to jump in as well (there are 4 services this addresses) | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: we are aiming to get it done before PTG right? | 19:09 |
| dmsimard | I'm ok with the proposal, I can add my +1 | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | yes, i would like to use this for zuul before we release 3.0 which i want to do before the ptg | 19:09 |
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| clarkb | ok lets put it up for council vote then. I'll look over reviews probably thursday afternoon | 19:09 |
| pabelanger | wfm | 19:09 |
| dmsimard | I just put up another spec if we want to share it for this topic | 19:09 |
| jeblair | so that's driving my enthusiasm for quick implementation :) | 19:10 |
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| fungi | jeblair: i suppose goal being that we can have the updated urls/addresses for docs, git repo and mailing list? | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | fungi: yep, so we're not wasting a marketing opportunity | 19:10 |
| fungi | included in the zuul 3.0.0 release announcement i mean | 19:10 |
| clarkb | ya I think you don't want to tell everyone to look somewhere new shortly after a major release | 19:10 |
| fungi | (and in its docs and whatnot) | 19:10 |
| clarkb | best to get that all lined up along with release | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | also, it will help convince folks we're not solely openstack-focused | 19:11 |
| jeblair | which is a big line item on the 3.0 release | 19:11 |
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| pabelanger | +1 | 19:11 |
| fungi | "zuul: it's not just for openstack any more" | 19:12 |
| jeblair | also, since lists.katacontainers.io exists, we can fold that back into the one true listserver after this lands | 19:12 |
| dmsimard | there is no openstack, only zuul | 19:12 |
| fungi | (not that it particularly was before) | 19:12 |
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| pabelanger | Yah, ptg is coming up fast, so agree we should vote | 19:12 |
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| clarkb | #agreed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/524024/ up for council vote this week. Please vote by Thursday afternoon Pacific Time | 19:13 |
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| fungi | dmsimard: did you intend to rollcall +1 that spec? | 19:13 |
| dmsimard | can I do that ? | 19:13 |
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| dmsimard | or is it just TC ? | 19:13 |
| fungi | infra council | 19:13 |
| dmsimard | I mean, I see I have the permissions to do that, but I didn't think I would -- okay, I will. | 19:14 |
| fungi | if you see the option to use it, then yes you can use it ;) | 19:14 |
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| clarkb | your membership in infraroot is what gives you that and yes you can use it | 19:14 |
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| * dmsimard still learning | 19:14 | |
| jeblair | dmsimard, frickler: https://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/project.html#teams | 19:14 |
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| dmsimard | I didn't even know infrastructure council was a thing, TIL. | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | it's essentially our group decision making process | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | hopefully just the right amount of structure without being too much bureaucracy | 19:16 |
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| dmsimard | wfm | 19:16 |
| clarkb | are there any other details/concerns about this spec and/or effort that we want to talk about here? | 19:16 |
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| clarkb | (otherwise I think we should keep moving because there are things to talk about!) | 19:16 |
| jeblair | clarkb: eot from me | 19:16 |
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| clarkb | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:16 | |
| clarkb | #topic Zuul v3 | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zuul v3 (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:17 | |
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| clarkb | Couple of things on zuulv3 front off the top of my head, the new dashboard has been deployed. It is shiny | 19:17 |
| clarkb | But also we are currently suffering from a memory leak | 19:17 |
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| clarkb | (probably dont' want to debug the memory leak here, but worth communicating it is a problem we know about) | 19:17 |
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| fungi | debugging is happening in #openstack-infra-incident | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | GitPython got a release | 19:19 |
| * fungi cheers | 19:19 | |
| clarkb | Command socket changes are happening as is the finger server work | 19:19 |
| clarkb | Seems like a steady amount of progress | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | yep, chugging along | 19:19 |
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| fungi | in yesterday's meeting we also confirmed some initial direction for having a usable but minimal base job in the stdlib | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | sorry for beeing late | 19:20 |
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| pabelanger | also confirmed with leifmadsen zuul quickstart docs in progress. going to sync up and help with testing them | 19:21 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: are there patches yet? | 19:21 |
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| pabelanger | clarkb: just an etherpad, let me get url | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zuulv3-quickstart | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | I was going to see about first pass and moving that in to RST format | 19:22 |
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| clarkb | ok, one question. As a non user of the red hat distros, would it make more sense to provide a distro agnostic guide? install zk from tarball, run zuul from virtualenv sort of thing? | 19:24 |
| clarkb | I guess we don't have to sort that out here and now | 19:24 |
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| pabelanger | clarkb: yah, I think we could | 19:24 |
| fungi | that way lies the trap of the openstack install guides ;) | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | i don't think the distro part of it is that big | 19:24 |
| AJaeger | yeah ;( Been there and had the fun ;( | 19:25 |
| fungi | granted, i don't have a good answer for the balance between lots of distro-specific install guides and trying to make distro-less inslall instructions | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | the zuul/nodepool bits will all be from source | 19:25 |
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| pabelanger | yah | 19:25 |
| jeblair | that doesn't leave much distro-specific stuff | 19:25 |
| dmsimard | the distro part is mostly around if you want to installed packaged version of things | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | fedora has bwrap by default, xenial needs external PPA atm | 19:26 |
| dmsimard | like zookeeper, etc | 19:26 |
| AJaeger | we can have distro specific initial paragraphs - if somebody provides them. Like install package A, B,C | 19:26 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya I think the thing that made it clunky to me is that for eg centos you already have to break out of the distro to zk | 19:26 |
| clarkb | so maybe just do that in the base docs | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | or create bindep.txt file :D | 19:26 |
| clarkb | maybe that specific section could be install from tarball if you don't have distro package for it then it applies, but details like that aren't important for now :) | 19:27 |
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| pabelanger | sure | 19:28 |
| fungi | sure, i suppose we don't need the guide to cover "how to install <random dependency>" we can just link to their documentation | 19:29 |
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| pabelanger | fungi: yah, good point | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | yes - we're targetting knowledgable admins | 19:29 |
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| fungi | no doubt the zk docs have ample detail on how to get up and running on a variety of distros anyway | 19:30 |
| ianw | ... who might be more interested in reading puppet/ansible anyway? | 19:30 |
| dmsimard | who knows, maybe this'll fork out to windmill and/or the nodepool/zuul roles anyway | 19:30 |
| dmsimard | :D | 19:30 |
| clarkb | ya I think the thing I would try to avoid is having so much detail that we end up with 10 ways to zookeeper | 19:31 |
| clarkb | (currently we have 2) | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | any other zuul related topics people want to discuss? | 19:31 |
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| frickler | yes | 19:32 |
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| frickler | some folks are confused by the change to zuul.projects | 19:32 |
| frickler | and I failed to find an announcement for that, do we have one or is that still pending? | 19:33 |
| clarkb | frickler: from a list to a dict? | 19:33 |
| frickler | clarkb: yep | 19:33 |
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| ianw | it's already out there, what did i miss? | 19:33 |
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| frickler | some jobs are currently failing since it was activated last week | 19:33 |
| ianw | i thought we updated users | 19:33 |
| frickler | there was a case earlier today in -infra | 19:34 |
| clarkb | sounds like we thought we updated all the uses of it but may have missed some? | 19:34 |
| jeblair | why don't we just use codesearch to find the remaining cases and fix them? | 19:34 |
| dmsimard | ianw: possible we missed a few cases.. after all, we reverted like twice and during that time span people may have used it | 19:34 |
| frickler | http://logs.openstack.org/59/527059/1/check/ansible-role-k8s-glance-kubernetes-centos/657411d/job-output.txt.gz#_2017-12-12_06_16_17_847993 | 19:34 |
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| AJaeger | flaper87 wanted to fix that ^ | 19:35 |
| ianw | yep ... i can take an action item to double check things | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | hrm, that project doesn't show up in codesearch | 19:36 |
| clarkb | ianw: frickler and maybe send a note to the dev list saying its due to a change and we are working to correct occurences of it let us know if you find them? | 19:36 |
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| ianw | ok, if we thing there's more than one? | 19:37 |
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| fungi | there's likely to continue to be people who have pending changes which reintroduce the old structure, so it will take time for them to catch on and fix their changes too | 19:37 |
| dmsimard | jeblair: possible codesearch is stuck, last time that happened puppet hadn't ran or wasn't updating the list of projects properly | 19:37 |
| ianw | i'm not seeing that in codesearch, which is why i'm guessing i didn't fix it :/ | 19:37 |
| dmsimard | pabelanger fixed it iirc | 19:37 |
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| pabelanger | we need to stop /start codesearch to pick up new projects | 19:37 |
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| pabelanger | it is a manual process | 19:37 |
| clarkb | I guess step one is restart the service then | 19:38 |
| dmsimard | pabelanger: that's it? just restart? We could set up a cron to run daily or something .. | 19:38 |
| clarkb | then requery and see what we missed | 19:38 |
| ianw | ? that's the first i've heard of that ... that seems like something we should puppet | 19:38 |
| fungi | yes, hound doesn't have a mechanism for adding or removing repos to index on the fly | 19:38 |
| clarkb | ianw: it was puppeted in the past but that resulted in the service always being down iirc | 19:38 |
| pabelanger | dmsimard: right, we've never picked a day for an outage. Takes about 5 / 10 mins to reindex | 19:38 |
| fungi | yeah, because it takes so long to reindex everything when starting | 19:38 |
| fungi | probably more than that these days | 19:39 |
| clarkb | lets time it this time around then we'll have info on what might work for automating it | 19:39 |
| fungi | well, also the puppeting was broken and it kept restarting the service whether or not there were new projects to add | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | (like pick a time for it once a day or something) | 19:39 |
| clarkb | I guess that is what dmsimard said | 19:39 |
| ianw | if it just replaced the webpage with "indexing ... give me a minute" i think that would be enough | 19:40 |
| ianw | rather than just disappearing | 19:40 |
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| ianw | i will volunteer to 1) reindexing 2) looking into .projects failures 3) proposing some approach to automated reindexing if we like | 19:40 |
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| clarkb | cool, sounds like a plan | 19:40 |
| frickler | that node is to be upgraded to xenial anyway, isn't it? | 19:40 |
| clarkb | frickler: yes | 19:41 |
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| clarkb | lets go with that plan and the upgrade will happen somewhere in there but one doesn't really block the other | 19:41 |
| ianw | good point, i can try brining it up as xenial first ... if it's going ok, then maybe switching is easy | 19:41 |
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| ianw | but if it gets stuck we can use the existing | 19:42 |
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| clarkb | this sets up the next topic nicely though which we should get into before we run out of time | 19:42 |
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| clarkb | #topic General topics | 19:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General topics (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:42 | |
| clarkb | We are upgrading control plane servers in a virtual sprint this week | 19:42 |
| AJaeger | if you go over xenial updates, please check also whether we have dead repos or files in system-config. Let's retire and cleanup. | 19:43 |
| clarkb | I think things have gone reasonably well but we've also hit a few speedbumps. | 19:43 |
| AJaeger | My small cleanup : https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:retire-puppet-apps - retire puppet-apps_site | 19:43 |
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| clarkb | There is a bit of boilerplate necessary to to add digits to server fqdns for example | 19:43 |
| dmsimard | I'm trying to figure out a generic playbook (which might end up living in a role) to re-install things, especially considering 18.04 is coming soon: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/527301/ I'll work on it some more and let you know when I feel it's ready for review but feel free to leave comments etc | 19:44 |
| ianw | AJaeger: maybe put that under infra-xenial topic if you like, i'm checking that regularly | 19:44 |
| clarkb | dmsimard: I'm worried that we'll need service specific upgrade roles/playbooks just to cover all the bases | 19:44 |
| fungi | i'd be wary of automating reinstallation given we have services relying on remote databases, with data on cinder volumes, et cetera | 19:44 |
| dmsimard | clarkb: yeah, that's why it might end up forking out to different roles | 19:44 |
| clarkb | dmsimard: because we run such a diverse set of services there isn't always consistency in ya what fungi said | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | it is possible we could do this in post pipeline now, and only trigger when we add new projects | 19:45 |
| pabelanger | ianw: ^ | 19:45 |
| jeblair | re-install what? | 19:45 |
| AJaeger | clarkb: shall I follow ianw 's suggestion to change the topic? | 19:45 |
| dmsimard | fungi: the goal is mostly to target the "easy" ones, like logstash-workers. | 19:45 |
| dmsimard | There's a lot of them and it's not very hard to automate. | 19:45 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: ya that works for me especially since it is related | 19:45 |
| dmsimard | I understand there's maybe 50% of "pets" we might not be able to automate but if we can automate the 50% of cattles, it'll save a good amount of time | 19:46 |
| pabelanger | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/ansible-role-cloud-launcher also has logic to control server creation, we just never finished off running puppet after server was launched | 19:46 |
| AJaeger | clarkb, ianw will do | 19:46 |
| fungi | well, also a lot of the work this time around, like clarkb noted, is switching from our old model of replacing servers with more of teh same name to having numbered servers | 19:46 |
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| fungi | that won't have to be redone in the future (in theory) | 19:46 |
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| pabelanger | AJaeger: do you know the status of install_tox.sh removal in projects? | 19:47 |
| ianw | i think anything's automatable ... the question for me is if you spend more time automating something than actually using the automation. i do think there's diminishing returns | 19:47 |
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| AJaeger | pabelanger: all the ones that can be done, are done ;) Meaning: Repos that need to install other repos like horizon or neutron are not done yet. We don't have a solution for them so far. | 19:48 |
| dmsimard | ianw: cue xkcd :D | 19:48 |
| clarkb | Given what we've gone through the last couple days or so are we finding this time is valuable (new roots finding it useful)? | 19:48 |
| fungi | dmsimard: https://xkcd.com/1205/ | 19:48 |
| clarkb | I've sort of been all over the place playing support so want to make sure that I'm not missing anything important | 19:48 |
| dmsimard | fungi: oh I had another one in mind | 19:49 |
| fungi | ahh | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: I think so, we've had new people creating servers | 19:49 |
| dmsimard | fungi: https://xkcd.com/1319/ | 19:49 |
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| fungi | dmsimard: yes, also appropriate | 19:49 |
| AJaeger | pabelanger: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open++topic:rm-tox_install show open ones - and we currently have 84 tox_install.sh files still in tree (including the open ones) | 19:50 |
| dmsimard | clarkb: I'm learning a bunch so it's been a great experience for me | 19:50 |
| dmsimard | definitely a good way to ramp up new roots imo | 19:50 |
| AJaeger | pabelanger: so, those need some more work - mordred wanted to find a solution, help is welcome. | 19:50 |
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| ianw | heh, i mean you should see the makefile for my thesis. it's a work of make art ... built on a solid foundation of procrastination | 19:50 |
| pabelanger | AJaeger: thanks, will look | 19:50 |
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| dmsimard | anything else for general topics ? | 19:51 |
| clarkb | ok I think there was some concern the boilerplate stuff was a lot of effort for minimal return and that we might consider a different approach. I am glad we decided to do this early and not wait until next month as I think we are all learning things :) | 19:51 |
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| pabelanger | +1 | 19:52 |
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| clarkb | The last general topic I wanted to bring up was project renames and possibly trying ianw's fix for nova-specs | 19:52 |
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| clarkb | maybe what I'll do is send out an email and poll for when is a good day to try and do that. Mordred had at least one additional project rename that isn't listed on the meeting agenda yet iirc | 19:53 |
| fungi | sounds good | 19:53 |
| ianw | do we have a procedure worked out now? | 19:54 |
| clarkb | ianw: not a complete on I don't think | 19:54 |
| clarkb | that means step 0 is write up a doc first I guess | 19:54 |
| clarkb | then propose days | 19:54 |
| ianw | ok, we can reuse the old doc @ https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rename-2017-10-20 | 19:54 |
| ianw | it was close | 19:54 |
| ianw | i will be happy to translate that into actual docs after we're done | 19:55 |
| clarkb | ok I'll see if I have time to poke at that | 19:55 |
| ianw | i'm fairly sure we're going to hit unexpected issues :) | 19:55 |
| clarkb | indeed | 19:55 |
| clarkb | #topic Open Discussion | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:55 | |
| clarkb | we have ~5 minutes left by my local clock. Anything else? | 19:55 |
| dmsimard | Better late than never, but I put up the spec for continuous deployment dashboard: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/527500/ | 19:55 |
| dmsimard | It's a first draft but ready for reviews | 19:56 |
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| clarkb | Holidays are fast approaching. I will be around next week and can host a meeting then (probably good for recapping sprint and zuul things) but week after I won't be here and then week after that I am not sure | 19:58 |
| dmsimard | good point | 19:58 |
| clarkb | I guess 1st is monday not tuesday so I will probably be here first week of the year | 19:58 |
| dmsimard | I guess the infrastructure is not solicited as much during the holidays, I guess it's infra-root best effort during that period ? | 19:58 |
| fungi | dmsimard: it's best effort any time | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | yah, I some some PTO I have to burn before Dec.31, I might be getting an early start in coming days. Will keep people updated | 19:59 |
| clarkb | and it definitely gets very quiet around here starting around now | 19:59 |
| dmsimard | fungi: you're correct :D | 19:59 |
| fungi | but yes, there tend to be fewer people around to fix the fewer things that break this time of year | 19:59 |
| fungi | and teh community has been generally accustomed to that idea | 19:59 |
| jeblair | i'll also be away the last 2 weeks | 19:59 |
| ianw | i am out from 12/21 - 01/07 fyi | 20:00 |
| fungi | i won't be away, but i'll be dealing with visiting family so won't be at the computer as much | 20:00 |
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| clarkb | so ya just be aware that it is quiet and we should probably be a bit more slushy/frozen as people may not be able to fix problems as quickly | 20:00 |
| clarkb | but I think that should naturally happen with people being afk | 20:00 |
| clarkb | and we are at time | 20:00 |
| clarkb | Thank you everyone | 20:01 |
| clarkb | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 20:01:03 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-12-12-19.01.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-12-12-19.01.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-12-12-19.01.log.html | 20:01 |
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| craig__ | greetings | 21:00 |
| oneswig | okey dokey | 21:00 |
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| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific-sig | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 21:00:34 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig' | 21:00 |
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| oneswig | greetings indeed craig__ thanks for coming | 21:01 |
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| oneswig | #link agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_December_12th_2017 | 21:01 |
| trandles | hi all | 21:01 |
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| cleong | hi | 21:01 |
| craig__ | Martial says you're talking about fed clouds today. I'm involved in the NIST/IEEE Joint WG | 21:01 |
| oneswig | hello trandles cleong | 21:01 |
| oneswig | craig__: indeed, that is the plan | 21:01 |
| oneswig | ah, I've just heard from Blair, he'll be a little late | 21:02 |
| oneswig | craig__: did you hear from Martial recently? | 21:02 |
| craig__ | We were on the phone yesterday. He should be here. | 21:02 |
| jmlowe | hey everybody | 21:03 |
| trandles | martial_: joined a few mins ago | 21:03 |
| oneswig | Hi Mike | 21:03 |
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| oneswig | ah excellent | 21:03 |
| oneswig | #chair martial_ | 21:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: martial_ oneswig | 21:03 |
| oneswig | Do we have Khalil here today? | 21:03 |
| qwebirc82044 | Hello.. Bob Bohn from NIST here | 21:03 |
| oneswig | hi Bob | 21:03 |
| qwebirc82044 | who else is here? | 21:04 |
| oneswig | OK, I suggest until we hear from Khalil we shuffle the agenda and put the NIST project first | 21:04 |
| oneswig | qwebirc82044: craig__ from NIST | 21:04 |
| oneswig | (correct?) | 21:05 |
| * ildikov is lurking as well :) | 21:05 | |
| craig__ | ACtually from The Aerospace Corp. but doing work for NIST | 21:05 |
| oneswig | #topic NIST/IEEE federation working group | 21:05 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "NIST/IEEE federation working group (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 21:05 | |
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| qwebirc82044 | ok.. we can shuffle agenda. Where is one? | 21:05 |
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| oneswig | Agenda's up here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_December_12th_2017 | 21:06 |
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| qwebirc82044 | ok.. never mind. I have it. | 21:06 |
| oneswig | OK craig__ qwebirc82044 - I had a question to get started. What standards do you have in mind that do not exist today? | 21:06 |
| craig__ | Good question. | 21:06 |
| craig__ | There are a number of existing relevant standards, but we could possibly talk about standards for how to manage a federation | 21:07 |
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| craig__ | How to manage the semantic interop. How two or more orgs can understand what services are available, what policies are to be observed, etc. | 21:07 |
| craig__ | Should I go on? | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | What is the use case for two orgs to share private clouds - purely a research use case? | 21:08 |
| jmlowe | We have two clouds | 21:08 |
| craig__ | No. I think two orgs could share private clouds for various business goals. | 21:09 |
| craig__ | Supply chain mgmt, eg. | 21:09 |
| martial_ | FYI, Bob is coming, but having issues joining | 21:09 |
| qwebirc82044 | Bob is here... | 21:09 |
| martial_ | oh wait, he is here ;) | 21:09 |
| craig__ | I also want to make the point that fed could be done at diff levels in the sys stack | 21:09 |
| oneswig | Hi martial_ | 21:09 |
| craig__ | IaaS, PaaS, and SaaS -- fed could be done for arbitrary business functions | 21:09 |
| qwebirc82044 | i think if we want to discuss resource discovery, there is a section in the V0.9 of the P2302 draft | 21:10 |
| oneswig | it's an interesting idea that software could become ubiquitous even when the hardware is distributed. | 21:11 |
| martial_ | Hi Stig | 21:11 |
| oneswig | But I'm not sure, that sounds more FOSDEM than IEEE | 21:11 |
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| craig__ | Imho the Keystone object model could be augmented to manage arb federations | 21:13 |
| rbudden | hello, appologies for being late. forgot to reset my calendar ;) | 21:13 |
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| oneswig | The IEEE processes are famously slow. How are you going to keep up with the pace of change in cloud? | 21:13 |
| qwebirc82044 | Also.. I think if we start to consider "standrads", looking at interfaces between components is a good place to start | 21:13 |
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| craig__ | A Keystone domain is tantamount to a federation; a domain could be virtual, meaning it's used to share info among specific federation partners for that specific domain/virtual organization | 21:14 |
| craig__ | If a "federation agent" capability was added to Keystone, we could talk about a standard communication protocol among keystone-based fed agents. | 21:15 |
| leong | might be a bit off-topic (my apology): for IEEE, are we/anyone looking into the IEEE P2301 and P2302? | 21:15 |
| ildikov | oneswig: my hope is that open source will have influence on standardization processes as well at some point in the hopefully not too far future | 21:15 |
| oneswig | I had a question on this - do you get everything necessary for keystone-to-keystone federation from the public API? | 21:15 |
| qwebirc82044 | Hi. I chair P2302 along with David Bernstein | 21:15 |
| ildikov | oneswig: my personal thinking re they are being famously slow | 21:15 |
| craig__ | "Rough consensus and running code" -- whoever has a running prototype that seems to work and provide user value, that will get attention | 21:16 |
| oneswig | ildikov: I would like that. | 21:16 |
| ildikov | oneswig: same; I hope if I repeat this to enough people enough times at the right place then it will magically happen :) | 21:16 |
| leong | qwebirc82044: nice.. is there something that the group can collaborate here? i know P2302/P2301 have been there for awhile | 21:16 |
| ildikov | craig__: +1 | 21:17 |
| oneswig | qwebirc82044: Is that an IEEE-standard IRC nick? :-) | 21:17 |
| qwebirc82044 | probably not a standard irc monniker | 21:17 |
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| oneswig | If there was a standard for that, it could be fatal! | 21:18 |
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| qwebirc82044 | leong - what do you mean about the group collaborating here? You mean P2302 contribute here or vice versa? | 21:18 |
| oneswig | craig__: qwebirc82044: so who is part of the WG and how long has it been running? | 21:18 |
| qwebirc82044 | sorry.. first time here... | 21:18 |
| craig__ | How has the Scientific SIG been thinking about collaboration mgmt? | 21:18 |
| oneswig | qwebirc82044: you are very welcome | 21:18 |
| leong | qwebirc82044: P2302 aimed to address standard for interop and federation, is there anything we can do here at OpenStack? | 21:19 |
| qwebirc82044 | NIST/P2302 have been working together since August | 21:19 |
| craig__ | P2302 has been looking at "cloud wholesaling" as a fairly narrow use case. they have taken a very network-oriented approach to supporting this use case. | 21:19 |
| qwebirc82044 | leong... i can send you a copy of an older draft P2302 standard that you can read | 21:19 |
| oneswig | qwebirc82044: what is the membership of the WG? | 21:20 |
| qwebirc82044 | oneswig - it is an open group, bot P2302 and the NIST | 21:20 |
| craig__ | Keystone has already built-out basic support for pair-wise federation of the core OS services. | 21:20 |
| craig__ | imho, with minor additions, Keystone could be used to manage arbitrary federations of app-level services. | 21:21 |
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| craig__ | THere would be scalability challenges, but what that would be a good problem to have | 21:21 |
| qwebirc82044 | if anybody wants to participate in NIST Fede Cloud and/or P2302 - please send email to me with your request: robert.bohn@nist.gov | 21:21 |
| leong | qwebirc82044: i think i have the older draft.. unless there is a newer version? | 21:21 |
| qwebirc82044 | there are several old drafts. V0.9 is the latest | 21:22 |
| oneswig | qwebirc82044: can you post a link to the latest? | 21:22 |
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| oneswig | martial_: Given I think you understand both projects, what are the key differences between NIST/IEEE P2302 and ORCA? | 21:23 |
| oneswig | ... and what is in common? | 21:23 |
| qwebirc82044 | no... sorry.. I do not have it online | 21:24 |
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| martial_ | oneswig: was helping Khalil join | 21:24 |
| craig__ | The older v 0.2 is avail on intercloudtestbed.org | 21:24 |
| khalil | I am in | 21:25 |
| martial_ | oneswig: ask the question again please | 21:25 |
| khalil | thanks | 21:25 |
| oneswig | Hi khalil, thanks for joining | 21:25 |
| khalil | thank you | 21:25 |
| oneswig | question was: martial_: Given I think you understand both projects, what are the key differences between NIST/IEEE P2302 and ORCA? | 21:25 |
| oneswig | ... and what is in common? | 21:25 |
| b1airo | in common, not InCommon... ;-) | 21:26 |
| leong | qwebirc82044: i just send you an email ..:-) | 21:26 |
| khalil | ORCA is an application of federation | 21:26 |
| khalil | the NIST/IEEE efforts are defining federation | 21:26 |
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| oneswig | #chair b1airo | 21:26 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo martial_ oneswig | 21:26 |
| oneswig | hi blair | 21:27 |
| khalil | ORCA hopes to provide input to the NIST/IEEE effort then implement to the standards | 21:27 |
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| b1airo | o/ (I have been lurking few 15 mins) | 21:27 |
| oneswig | khalil: thanks, that makes sense | 21:27 |
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| craig__ | There are also a number of fed-related projects underway. We need to understand what emergent dominant practices might be | 21:28 |
| oneswig | craig__: qwebirc82044: when a consensus becomes a standard, does that then mean a "down-selecting" of potential components of federation? Eg, auth protocols, etc. | 21:28 |
| khalil | otherwise - ORCA is a use case that (IMHO) exposes quite a wide range of the issues that are relevant to understanding the scope of standards relevant to describing federation | 21:29 |
| khalil | explain "down-selecting" | 21:29 |
| craig__ | There are diff possible fed deployment models that are suitable for diff app domains. | 21:30 |
| oneswig | As in, defining the standard around one set of technologies | 21:30 |
| craig__ | These could have diff requirements for diff components. The challenge is to understand the "fat" part of the market, is poss | 21:30 |
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| khalil | I think the NIST/IEEE effort will identify the technical areas that are relevant/necessary for establishing a "cloud federation" without prescribing a particular deployment model | 21:31 |
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| craig__ | Yes, initially that's what we are targeting. Once we have the basics identified, we can approach deployment/implementation models | 21:32 |
| oneswig | Sounds sensible - I think the likeliest path to success is much more bazaar than cathedral | 21:33 |
| khalil | there will naturally be use-case dependencies on how things like authorization work in practice | 21:33 |
| khalil | agree | 21:33 |
| qwebirc82044 | I think NIST will generalize the model conceptually, IEEE will take that material to create a standard. My thinking is that it should be open enough so there is more than 1 possible implementation (solution). | 21:34 |
| craig__ | We have to understand the design space, then we can choose one (or more) implemenation/deployments that might work for a good set of use cases | 21:34 |
| khalil | the challenge of the parsimony in guidance -- general model that admits the highest level of diversity in outcomes | 21:34 |
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| craig__ | Are the Aristotle folks on? | 21:35 |
| oneswig | qwebirc82044: more than 1 implementation that are incompatible with one another? | 21:36 |
| khalil | Sig -- could you expand on that? | 21:36 |
| martial_ | unfortunately, the person we invited was not avble to attend tonight | 21:36 |
| khalil | a research use case is different from say, a financial one | 21:37 |
| qwebirc82044 | ultimately - i think they would need to be compatible on some level if they are solutions to a federated model | 21:37 |
| martial_ | but they want to follow up on this conversation, maybe the next USA friendly SSIG IRC meeting can be a part 2 | 21:37 |
| oneswig | khalil: what I mean is, when Bob's saying about supporting multiple implementations, do those implementations need to be compatible with one another? It's a very open standard if they do not, but it would exclude technologies in use if it did. | 21:38 |
| craig__ | If there was a standard fed protocol that enabled diff "fed agents" or "fed brokers" to understand each other, that would go a long way | 21:38 |
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| khalil | thanks Sig. I think that they would have to be differentiated an potentially incompatible. | 21:39 |
| khalil | as example - a federation that is purposed to genomics data might not want to allow other federation access as a security measure | 21:40 |
| khalil | at the end of the day, I think that federating two or more clouds must be "purposeful" and therefore, unique | 21:41 |
| craig__ | Federation instances will be unique | 21:41 |
| qwebirc82044 | interesting... i see that they would need to be differentiated and belonging to different federations. Hence, they could be incompatible and unique | 21:42 |
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| craig__ | a fed instance is a security and collab context where diff policies could be jointly defined and enforced among the participants | 21:42 |
| khalil | nonetheless, the description of what a federation is could be applicable to all instances | 21:43 |
| craig__ | By "incompatible" I assume you mean "separate" | 21:43 |
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| qwebirc82044 | i agree with the last 2 statements | 21:43 |
| khalil | separate yes. incompatible to the extent that one federation will not accept (w/o some agreement to do so) participation of another federation | 21:44 |
| khalil | incompatible by design | 21:44 |
| craig__ | There's a better word than incompatible -- separate by policy | 21:45 |
| martial_ | we are going into the SLA conversation again? :) | 21:45 |
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| oneswig | Earlier you referred to candidate implementations - what activity is going on around that? | 21:46 |
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| craig__ | EGI fed cloud, Nectar, EU-Brazil Fogbow, Keystone, Aristotle, MOC, ... | 21:46 |
| craig__ | KeyVOMS | 21:46 |
| khalil | ORCA would be a candidate implementation..? | 21:47 |
| khalil | assume so | 21:47 |
| qwebirc82044 | sounds reasonable to me | 21:48 |
| oneswig | craig__: so the effort is around characterising the technologies and protocols of each? | 21:48 |
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| craig__ | Understanding them all at a detailed level and understanding commonalities/differences needs to be done | 21:48 |
| b1airo | Is there any useful way for operators and architects to engage today? | 21:48 |
| craig__ | Anybody want to drop a few $100k on me? ;-> | 21:49 |
| martial_ | and Khalil | 21:49 |
| khalil | include me in that... :) | 21:49 |
| khalil | thanks Martial | 21:49 |
| qwebirc82044 | that's like 5 bitcoins... | 21:49 |
| craig__ | Can I use bitcoin to buy plane tix? | 21:49 |
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| craig__ | We're almost to the top of the hour. What are the action items? | 21:51 |
| khalil | to Blair's question -- I think it will be important to get input from operators and architects to ensure that we have covered the necessary scope in developing standards and that the guidance from the standards is at the "right level" to allow for uniqueness in deployments | 21:51 |
| oneswig | I don't think we have any - it's been interesting to hear the discussion | 21:51 |
| khalil | on action items - how to involve a larger group in the vetting of the standards would be great | 21:52 |
| craig__ | Understanding the desired use cases is necessary. From there, we can understand required capabilities and tooling. | 21:52 |
| khalil | for ORCA, that is essential, for NIST/IEEE the more input the better (IMHO) | 21:52 |
| craig__ | +1 | 21:53 |
| qwebirc82044 | i agree | 21:53 |
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| b1airo | Ok, maybe some Xmas holiday reading for me then | 21:53 |
| khalil | Sig/Blair/Martial + others -- how do we get more participation from the technical folks on the development of "essential requirements" for ORCA? | 21:54 |
| qwebirc82044 | if you choose to participate with NIST effort or P2302, please contact me (robert.bohn@nist.gov) | 21:54 |
| martial_ | Dec 26 would be the next meeting for USA, that is going to be a tough one to continue this conversation | 21:54 |
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| b1airo | khalil: it would help to run IRC or similar meetings I think | 21:55 |
| qwebirc82044 | the next P2302 mtg is Monday Dec 18 at 1:00pm ET | 21:55 |
| b1airo | Perhaps we could have a monthly coordination slot in these meetings..? | 21:55 |
| ildikov | and in general easy access to ongoing work and discussion items as well as minutes of meeting | 21:55 |
| b1airo | That's the nice thing about IRC - autominutes! | 21:56 |
| khalil | that would be helpful, we have working group areas: identity, security, data, business transactions enablement, etc... | 21:56 |
| khalil | ok | 21:56 |
| qwebirc82044 | Here are some relevant sites- | 21:56 |
| qwebirc82044 | Link to P2302 Public Site https://standards.ieee.org/develop/project/2302.html Link to NIST PWGFC Twiki http://collaborate.nist.gov/twiki-cloud-computing/bin/view/CloudComputing/FederatedCloudPWGFC Link to the Intercloud Testbed (and materials) http://www.intercloudtestbed.org/ | 21:56 |
| ildikov | b1airo: +1 | 21:56 |
| khalil | My only challenge with IRC is presenting the framing slides... | 21:57 |
| craig__ | Point to a google doc | 21:57 |
| oneswig | khalil: I think federations will develop locally, as they have done, and perhaps it's worth defining how the interfaces used are characterised. I'm pretty sure there's work in this area that could be adapted. | 21:57 |
| qwebirc82044 | Here is how to participate with P2302 - IEEE P2302 meeting (1:00 pm EDT/10:00AM PT) Connect via: join.me/ieeesa_robert.bohn | 21:58 |
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| qwebirc82044 | thanks for putting this session togther | 21:59 |
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| martial_ | should we discuss a continuation of this discussion? | 21:59 |
| oneswig | We are out of time, alas. Thank you for coming | 21:59 |
| khalil | thanks | 22:00 |
| craig__ | Thanks | 22:00 |
| khalil | agree on continuing | 22:00 |
| qwebirc82044 | thanks... | 22:00 |
| qwebirc82044 | me too | 22:00 |
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| qwebirc82044 | bye for now. talk to you later | 22:01 |
| oneswig | TOSCA - that's what I was thinking of. You need something like that for describing federation | 22:01 |
| oneswig | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 22:01:53 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2017/scientific_sig.2017-12-12-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2017/scientific_sig.2017-12-12-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2017/scientific_sig.2017-12-12-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
| martial_ | I think we can discuss the followup meeting via email | 22:02 |
| martial_ | thanks everybody for joining | 22:02 |
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