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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 03:00:04 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-03-21_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| mkrai | Madhuri Kumari | 03:00 |
| lakerzhou | lakerzhou | 03:00 |
| shubhams | shubham | 03:00 |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
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| kevinz | kevinz | 03:01 |
| hongbin | thanks for joining mkrai lakerzhou shubhams Namrata kevinz | 03:01 |
| pksingh | pradeep | 03:01 |
| hongbin | thanks for joining pksingh | 03:01 |
| hongbin | let's get started | 03:01 |
| zsli_ | shunli | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | 1. Zun will have a 45 minutes on-boarding session at Boston Summit | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114149.html | 03:01 |
| hongbin | zsli_: thanks for joining shunli | 03:02 |
| hongbin | back to the topic | 03:02 |
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| hongbin | the on-boarding session will be provided to on-board new contributors | 03:02 |
| hongbin | basically, we will send one or more team member to there and chair the session | 03:03 |
| hongbin | we will introduce new contributors how to contribute to zun project | 03:03 |
| mkrai | hongbin: This is happening for the first time in summit, right? | 03:04 |
| hongbin | i guess it will cover how to run tests, how this component is going to work, etc. | 03:04 |
| hongbin | mkrai: yes, it is the first time | 03:04 |
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| hongbin | if anyone want to chair this session, please feel free to let me know, otherwise, i can be the default chair | 03:04 |
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| hongbin | any other question about this? | 03:05 |
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| hongbin | if not, hope to see you all there | 03:05 |
| hongbin | #topic Cinder integration (diga) | 03:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:05 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP | 03:05 |
| hongbin | diga sent me an email saying that he cannot attend | 03:06 |
| hongbin | here is the update he sent me | 03:06 |
| hongbin | I have resolved fuxi/docker issue and things are working for me at last. | 03:06 |
| hongbin | API level integration with Cinder & Docker is completed | 03:06 |
| hongbin | Will upload latest patch with test cases as it is failing CI jobs. | 03:06 |
| hongbin | That is all from him | 03:06 |
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| hongbin | any comment about this bp? | 03:06 |
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| hongbin | ok, move on | 03:07 |
| hongbin | #topic Kuryr integration (hongbin) | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kuryr integration (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:07 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/kuryr-integration The BP | 03:07 |
| hongbin | at last week, most of the patches i submitted to kuryr-libnetwork got merged | 03:08 |
| hongbin | based on how the patches were merged, i submitted a revision to the spec | 03:08 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447732/ | 03:08 |
| hongbin | here is the general idea | 03:08 |
| hongbin | to create a network, users are expected to pass an existing neutron net to zun | 03:09 |
| hongbin | for example, it could be a "private" net pre-created by most of hte cloud | 03:09 |
| hongbin | when a user request to create a container, zun will use user's token to create a port from private net | 03:10 |
| hongbin | then, zun will figure out all the information from the port, e.g. the subnetpool id, the cidr, the gateway, etc. | 03:11 |
| hongbin | this information will pass to kuryr to create the network and configure the network of hte container | 03:11 |
| hongbin | in general, the behaviour should be similar to nova (user create vm by specifying a neutron net) | 03:11 |
| mkrai | So do we need the network API now? | 03:12 |
| hongbin | mkrai: yes | 03:12 |
| mkrai | I see it is just storing the info in db | 03:12 |
| hongbin | mkrai: however, the network api would be just a wrapper of a neutron network at the first iteration | 03:12 |
| mkrai | And what else is the thing can be done by the API? | 03:12 |
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| hongbin | i guess nothing else at the first iteration | 03:13 |
| hongbin | later, we might store additonal information, such labels, subnet, etc. | 03:13 |
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| mkrai | Ok I will try to review the spec and provide my input if any | 03:14 |
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| hongbin | mkrai: ack, thx | 03:14 |
| mkrai | hongbin: Thanks for your great effort on this | 03:14 |
| pksingh | hongbin: is it necessary to provide the API to store information in DB? | 03:15 |
| kevinz | hongbin: thanks hongbin, great work | 03:15 |
| pksingh | hongbin: cant we do it during container create? | 03:15 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: i think the answer is yes | 03:16 |
| hongbin | i guess there would be benefits for two container to connect to the same "container network" | 03:16 |
| hongbin | e.g. two containers can discover each other if they are in the same docker network | 03:17 |
| pksingh | hongbin: i see, | 03:17 |
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| hongbin | however, we could provide a short cut version for users to allow them to bypass the network api | 03:17 |
| hongbin | this could directly create container from neutron net | 03:18 |
| pksingh | hongbin: we store the network infor just for multitenancy? | 03:18 |
| hongbin | pksingh: i think it is more than that | 03:19 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: a network in zun is basically represents a docker network if driver is docker | 03:19 |
| pksingh | hongbin: OK, thanks for explaining, will look into the spec and put my queries there | 03:20 |
| hongbin | pksingh: sure | 03:20 |
| hongbin | more comments? | 03:20 |
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| hongbin | ok, advance topic | 03:21 |
| hongbin | #topic Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto) | 03:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:21 | |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/ The spec | 03:21 |
| hongbin | it looks sudipta is not here | 03:21 |
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| hongbin | we could skip this one unless anyone want to comment on this topic | 03:22 |
| hongbin | ok, next topic | 03:22 |
| hongbin | #topic Introduce container composition | 03:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:22 | |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/ | 03:22 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ^^ | 03:22 |
| kevinz | Hi all, I've uploaded a net version of the spec | 03:23 |
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| kevinz | Add the implementation procedure of this | 03:24 |
| kevinz | also I have a proposal of the data model. http://kevinzhao.org/2017/03/18/zun-capsule-object.html hope your feedback of this | 03:25 |
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| pksingh | kevinz: i am not able to open the link in office, may be i will check this at home | 03:27 |
| kevinz | Sorry, I have move the link to etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-composition | 03:28 |
| kevinz | that will be easy to discuess | 03:28 |
| pksingh | kevinz: thanks, it better | 03:28 |
| hongbin | thanks kevinz for moving it to etherpad | 03:28 |
| kevinz | yw :-) | 03:29 |
| hongbin | i guess i will give everyone a few minutes to comment on the etherpad | 03:29 |
| kevinz | Yeah, Also I have three question inline to discuss in the v1.CapsuleElement | 03:29 |
| pksingh | i think we need to make a naming convention and at all places we should use capsule | 03:31 |
| kevinz | yes sure | 03:33 |
| mkrai | I wonder how we will manage both capsule container and our docker/nova-docker containers at same time | 03:33 |
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| mkrai | kevinz: This implementation will be a new driver for container_driver? | 03:34 |
| kevinz | mkrai: Now I prefer to reuse the container driver | 03:34 |
| hongbin | i guess it is a new api instead of a new driver | 03:34 |
| mkrai | Yes I agree for new API | 03:34 |
| pksingh | kevinz: i think we dont need to expose HOST information to user | 03:34 |
| mkrai | But not sure how we will manage both containers concurrently | 03:35 |
| kevinz | Yeah, API server will read the yaml info from CLI, then scheduler to create the container. | 03:35 |
| kevinz | to zun compute | 03:35 |
| pksingh | kevinz: may be you are storing HOST in DB only for internal use | 03:36 |
| kevinz | Plan to add a new field to container Object, to show whether it is in a capsule | 03:36 |
| kevinz | pksingh: Yes, for internal use. will not expose it to user | 03:36 |
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| mkrai | kevinz: IMO I think we should keep the container_driver and capsule implementation seperate | 03:37 |
| mkrai | kevinz: Adding the capsule field to container will make the things more complex | 03:37 |
| pksingh | mkrai: i think capsule is going to user container_driver internally | 03:37 |
| kevinz | pksingh: Yeah just internally use it | 03:38 |
| mkrai | pksingh: Yes but I don't we need to add the merge both the implementations | 03:38 |
| hongbin | mkrai: basically, what we have right now is 1 infra container + 1 real container, which is basically a 1 container capsule | 03:39 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i think the proposal is just an extension to support 1 infra container + multiple real containers | 03:39 |
| kevinz | hongbin: +1 | 03:40 |
| mkrai | hongbin: thanks for explaining | 03:41 |
| pksingh | point is how to make a relationship between container and capsule in DB? | 03:41 |
| hongbin | pksingh: this is a good question | 03:41 |
| pksingh | if we remove the container API and keep only capsule APIS then things would be easier? | 03:41 |
| mkrai | Yes that is same question | 03:41 |
| kevinz | That a question need to discuss | 03:41 |
| mkrai | Thanks pksingh for puttng in better words :) | 03:42 |
| pksingh | :) | 03:42 |
| kevinz | pksingh: Yeah that will be totally like a pod | 03:42 |
| hongbin | i think there are several options here | 03:42 |
| hongbin | 1. make capsule as a wrapper of the infra container, and the relationship between capsule and real containers is a one-to-many relationship | 03:43 |
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| hongbin | for example, for a 2 container capsule, there will be 1 db entry for capsule, 2 db entry for container | 03:44 |
| hongbin | 2. make capsule as a whole | 03:45 |
| hongbin | then, there will be 1 db entry per capsule that is for capturing all the information (no extra db entry for contianer) | 03:45 |
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| hongbin | that is all i can think of | 03:45 |
| pksingh | hongbin: for approach 2, what if i want the specific information for a conatiner inside the capsule? | 03:46 |
| hongbin | option #2 would be more like a pod and they are stored as a unit | 03:46 |
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| kevinz | approach 1 has the minium change. option 2 like a pod | 03:46 |
| hongbin | pksingh: i guess you need to read inside the db entry and parse information about individual containers | 03:47 |
| mkrai | I think option 1 is better and preferable | 03:47 |
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| pksingh | hongbin: OK, so we will be storing all the information in DB for every container as blob? | 03:47 |
| hongbin | pksingh: sort of ... | 03:48 |
| hongbin | pksingh: perhaps it worth to discuss at the api leverl | 03:48 |
| mkrai | hongbin: Right. Unify the container and capsule apis | 03:48 |
| hongbin | i guess option #2 will make the api looks like a pod | 03:48 |
| hongbin | zun capsule-create will create some containers, but it won't be listed by running "zun list" | 03:49 |
| mkrai | the concept of container and capsule is same, so having single API layer makes much sense | 03:49 |
| pksingh | I think if we use approach two, then keeping both the APIs would be more manageable | 03:49 |
| hongbin | mkrai: ack | 03:50 |
| pksingh | and we need to have two set of APIS, one for containers and one for capsules | 03:50 |
| kevinz | pksingh: yes | 03:51 |
| mkrai | pksingh: container is also a capsule but with just one container, so why do we need different api | 03:51 |
| hongbin | on the other side, these two set of apis would be duplicated somehow | 03:51 |
| mkrai | hongbin: Exactly | 03:52 |
| pksingh | yes, thats why i said we may need to just put the capsule API only | 03:52 |
| hongbin | pksingh: i believe some users prefered the simplicity of hte container api | 03:52 |
| pksingh | hongbin: but then there will be lot of duplication internally | 03:53 |
| mkrai | hongbin: kevinz pksingh I think the current solution could be to implement the capsule API now and see if is at all worth having 2 APIs | 03:53 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: i would lean to option #1 that make a capsule as a wrapper of sandbox | 03:54 |
| pksingh | hongbin: then we need to have two set of APIs | 03:54 |
| pksingh | hongbin: ok, got it | 03:55 |
| hongbin | pksingh: yes, but they are not dupicated anymore | 03:55 |
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| mkrai | pksingh: Why so? | 03:55 |
| hongbin | ok, let continue the dicussion at the next meeting | 03:55 |
| pksingh | hongbin: ok, +1 for approach 1 | 03:55 |
| kevinz | I guess capsule don't need much api for operation | 03:55 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:55 | |
| hongbin | we have 5 minute left | 03:55 |
| hongbin | feel free to continue the discussion until then | 03:56 |
| mkrai | I also prefer option 1 but not sure why would we need two APIs | 03:56 |
| pksingh | hongbin: since we are close to release, we may priortise the tasks | 03:56 |
| pksingh | mkrai: as hongbin said some people want docker like APIs, | 03:57 |
| mkrai | pksingh: +1 | 03:57 |
| hongbin | pksingh: what do you think about the priority? | 03:57 |
| mkrai | pksingh: Ok I think that is a valid point. Simplicity | 03:57 |
| pksingh | hongbin: i am not sure, i was thinking a MVP zun | 03:58 |
| hongbin | mvp? | 03:58 |
| pksingh | minimum vaiable product | 03:58 |
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| hongbin | ok, since mvp has many meaning :) | 03:58 |
| pksingh | so i was thinking if user can use the zun for basic operation | 03:58 |
| pksingh | like accessing the container from putside is still not possible | 03:59 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: agree | 03:59 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: right now, i marked the netowrk and storage bp as hte highest priority | 03:59 |
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| pksingh | so if we priortize the tasks then we can implement those | 04:00 |
| kevinz | hongbin: +1 | 04:00 |
| pksingh | yse i think they are very necessary | 04:00 |
| hongbin | yes | 04:00 |
| hongbin | time is up | 04:00 |
| hongbin | overflow on #openstack-zun channel | 04:00 |
| pksingh | bye :) | 04:00 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 04:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 04:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 04:00:41 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-21-03.00.html | 04:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-21-03.00.txt | 04:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-21-03.00.log.html | 04:00 |
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| rkmrHonjo | #startmeeting masakari | 04:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 04:00:55 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rkmrHonjo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 04:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 04:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'masakari' | 04:00 |
| rkmrHonjo | Hi all. | 04:01 |
| tpatil | Hi | 04:01 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | hi | 04:01 |
| rkmrHonjo | I provide this meeting instead of samP. | 04:01 |
| sagara | hi | 04:01 |
| sagara | rkmrHonjo: thanks | 04:01 |
| rkmrHonjo | #topic bugs | 04:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:01 | |
| abhishekk | o/ | 04:01 |
| rkmrHonjo | Do you have any bugs to discuss? | 04:02 |
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| rkmrHonjo | Nothing? | 04:03 |
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| rkmrHonjo | Can we go to next topic? | 04:04 |
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| tpatil | I will review patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/444801 soon | 04:04 |
| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: thanks. | 04:04 |
| rkmrHonjo | action: tpatil reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/444801 | 04:05 |
| rkmrHonjo | #action: tpatil reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/444801 | 04:05 |
| rkmrHonjo | #action tpatil reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/444801 | 04:05 |
| rkmrHonjo | Sorry... | 04:05 |
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| sagara | I will also review that. | 04:05 |
| sagara | Is there any bug? | 04:06 |
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| tpatil | No | 04:06 |
| rkmrHonjo | OK, let's go to next topic. | 04:06 |
| rkmrHonjo | #topic Pike work items | 04:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pike work items (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:06 | |
| rkmrHonjo | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-pike-workitems | 04:07 |
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| rkmrHonjo | Do you have any items to discuss? BTW, I think that we had already discussed enough about items last week. | 04:07 |
| sagara | rkmrHonjo: Yes | 04:07 |
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| tpatil | Request Sampath to approve BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/masakari/+spec/enable-openstack-proposal-bot | 04:08 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | ^^ I am ready with the patches to submit but waiting for the blueprint to be approved | 04:09 |
| sagara | rkmrHonjo: I don't know which items needs blueprint and spec. everything? | 04:09 |
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| sagara | tpatil, Dinesh_Bhor: thank you | 04:09 |
| tpatil | Item :auto_priority and rh_priority recovery_methods | 04:10 |
| rkmrHonjo | sagara: Sorry, I don't know, too. We should discuss it when sampath participate to meeting. | 04:10 |
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| tpatil | Dinesh has address review comments, need to review his patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433669/ | 04:11 |
| tpatil | s/address/addressed | 04:11 |
| rkmrHonjo | #action Sampath checks and approves BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/masakari/+spec/enable-openstack-proposal-bot | 04:11 |
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| sagara | #action Sampath confirms which Pike items needs blueprint and spec | 04:13 |
| rkmrHonjo | sagara: Can you review Dinesh's patch? | 04:15 |
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| sagara | rkmrHonjo: Sure, I have reveied Dinesh's patch, once. And I will review that again. | 04:16 |
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| sagara | #action sagara reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433669/ | 04:17 |
| rkmrHonjo | sagara: thanks. | 04:17 |
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| rkmrHonjo | any other items? | 04:18 |
| rkmrHonjo | OK, let's go to next topic. | 04:19 |
| rkmrHonjo | #topic AOB | 04:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:19 | |
| rkmrHonjo | Do you have any other topics? | 04:20 |
| sagara | nothing | 04:20 |
| rkmrHonjo | OK, this meeting is over. | 04:20 |
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| rkmrHonjo | thank you all. | 04:21 |
| tpatil | Thank you all | 04:21 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | thanks all. | 04:21 |
| sagara | I think need to confirm about which Pike items need bp and specs, And then we need to start development from "Recovery method customization" | 04:21 |
| sagara | ok, thanks | 04:21 |
| rkmrHonjo | #endmeeting | 04:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 04:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 04:22:01 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-21-04.00.html | 04:22 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-21-04.00.txt | 04:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-21-04.00.log.html | 04:22 |
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| eranrom | #startmeeting storlets | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 08:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storlets' | 08:00 |
| eranrom | Hi | 08:00 |
| akihito | hi! | 08:00 |
| eranrom | Hi akihito | 08:00 |
| eranrom | Kota said he cannot join. | 08:00 |
| eranrom | Do you know if Sagara plans on joining? | 08:01 |
| akihito | oh.. ok. | 08:01 |
| akihito | just moment please. | 08:01 |
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| akihito | Sagara is absent. | 08:02 |
| eranrom | akihito: ok. Then its only us. | 08:03 |
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| eranrom | A small update: | 08:03 |
| eranrom | During the next week I will be giving a demonstration of Storlets in a web meeting. | 08:03 |
| eranrom | The demo will show how to use storlets to do end to end machine learning. Specifically, I will show how to do face recognitions using storlets | 08:04 |
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| eranrom | I will send an invite later today through the openstack mailing list. | 08:05 |
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| akihito | wow! fantastic! I am looking forward to it. | 08:06 |
| eranrom | akihito: thanks. | 08:06 |
| akihito | I will tell sagara and takashi. | 08:06 |
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| eranrom | akihito: great. I assume you all get the openstack-dev mails. | 08:07 |
| eranrom | Do you want to discuss anything on the fie deletion / cleanup work that you are doing? | 08:07 |
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| akihito | I do not have anything today. I am modifying the code based on the comments you received. | 08:09 |
| akihito | Thank you for your comment in <https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storlets-pike-design-summit> | 08:09 |
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| eranrom | akihito: ok. sure. | 08:10 |
| eranrom | so I guess we can end up now... | 08:10 |
| eranrom | assuming there is nothing else (?) | 08:11 |
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| akihito | yep. I have not a topic.. | 08:11 |
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| eranrom | ok, so thanks for joining. | 08:12 |
| eranrom | talk to you later | 08:12 |
| eranrom | #endmeeting | 08:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:12 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 08:12:33 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:12 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-21-08.00.html | 08:12 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-21-08.00.txt | 08:12 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-21-08.00.log.html | 08:12 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 13:00:11 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, evening | 13:00 |
| Qiming | hi | 13:00 |
| elynn | o/ | 13:00 |
| XueFeng | hi | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | agenda posted, please add if you have things to talk about | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | le'ts get started | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | #topic pike work items | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-pike-workitems | 13:02 |
| Qiming | api test for profile-only is in now | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | we need to revisit if all api changes since microversion 1.2 have been properly tested | 13:03 |
| Qiming | so I'm leaving that item there | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | next, feature rich nova server | 13:04 |
| elynn | no progress yet | 13:04 |
| elynn | will try to start it this week | 13:04 |
| Qiming | okay, sounds great | 13:04 |
| elynn | As we talked before | 13:04 |
| Qiming | we have some very limited versioning support today | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | in the long run, maybe we should replace the "schema" module with versioned objects | 13:05 |
| elynn | I'm about to say I'm going to use versioned schema for it.. | 13:05 |
| Qiming | we may need to derive some subclasses from base VersionedObject for this purpose | 13:05 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:05 |
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| elynn | But I haven't tested it yet... | 13:05 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, so the member of the derived versioned object will still be versioned object? | 13:06 |
| elynn | will spend some time on it | 13:06 |
| Qiming | we don't have to do nested versioned objects | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. a versioned obj for nova server profile will be consist of a set of versioned object of image/net/storage, etc. | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | the goal is simple, make sure any changes of the spec would require a version bump | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:07 |
| Qiming | if we manage nested objects, there will be two or more layers of objects to be managed in versions | 13:07 |
| Qiming | too boring | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | yes, more than one layers of oversioned obj will be there if so | 13:08 |
| Qiming | next, engine improvement, wrt CLUSTER_CHECK | 13:08 |
| XueFeng | hi,QiMing | 13:08 |
| Qiming | yes, yanyanhu, and each of them will have to be versioned | 13:08 |
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| XueFeng | No update this week | 13:09 |
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| XueFeng | Attend a meetup in NanJing | 13:09 |
| Qiming | alright, would you give an update on your talk during open discussion? | 13:09 |
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| XueFeng | OK | 13:09 |
| Qiming | next item is about node adopt | 13:10 |
| XueFeng | And will have a article for the meetup | 13:10 |
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| yanyanhu | XueFeng, that's great :) | 13:10 |
| Qiming | just added some resources to SDK, for getting environment, files and template back | 13:10 |
| Qiming | senlin side driver patches are ready for review | 13:10 |
| Qiming | em... both are in now: https://review.openstack.org/447001 and https://review.openstack.org/446866 | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | review.openstack.org is slow .... | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | yes, it is... | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | actually, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447001/ should not get in | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | because there is another patch at sdk side to be merged | 13:13 |
| Qiming | and we will need to wait for another release from sdk to get the whole thing work | 13:13 |
| Qiming | but anyway, cannot wait for so long | 13:13 |
| XueFeng | OK | 13:14 |
| Qiming | I think we are ready to move forward with node adoption | 13:14 |
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| XueFeng | Yes | 13:14 |
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| elynn | It's an important feature in senlin | 13:15 |
| Qiming | next is from ruijie | 13:15 |
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| Ruijie | I cannot open etherpad .,.. | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | the main requirement is about doing an optional health check before doing scaling | 13:16 |
| Qiming | right? | 13:16 |
| Ruijie | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-senlin-desired-health-check | 13:16 |
| Ruijie | yes Qiming. | 13:16 |
| Ruijie | We do desired_capacity check in scaling proces | 13:16 |
| Qiming | I'm okay with this feature | 13:16 |
| Qiming | desired capacity is expressed by a user's request | 13:16 |
| Qiming | that is how we call it "desired" | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | looking at your story, I'm kind of feeling it is making things too complicated | 13:17 |
| Ruijie | em .. Qiming, you mean which part | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | calculate new desired capacity based on old desired_capacity | 13:18 |
| Qiming | the old value is never reliable | 13:18 |
| Qiming | it might have been broken since last time you scaled your cluster | 13:18 |
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| Ruijie | I thought that is the mean of "desired" .. | 13:19 |
| Qiming | a more reasonable process is to do your operations based on current scale | 13:19 |
| Ruijie | e.g, current desired=3, num of nodes=3, we do scale out to 5. then the desired is 5 | 13:19 |
| Qiming | we have a long debate several months ago | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | when you do scaling, you express your expectation in parameters, senlin will compute your "desired capacity" | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Ruijie, I think the basic idea is senlin won't maintain the "desired" capacity. In opposite, users will maintain/remind this value in their own mind :) | 13:20 |
| Ruijie | but if this process failed, say we only have 4 nodes, but the desired is still 5 ... I want 5 nodes in the cluster but not 4.. | 13:20 |
| Qiming | but this computation has nothing to do with the curren value of "desired_capacity" | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | this is especially true when you do auto-scaling | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | users can observe and know what is current size of cluster, then they scale their clusters based on the observation result | 13:21 |
| Qiming | the metrics that trigger an auto-scaling is the active number of nodes, not the current "desired capacity" | 13:21 |
| Ruijie | yanyanhu, you mean the "desired" is invisiable to user ? | 13:21 |
| Qiming | desired is calculated from your last scaling operation | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | Ruijie, I mean senlin won't be responsible to maintain the "desired" value | 13:22 |
| Qiming | that was your "desire" | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | its users' "desire" :) | 13:22 |
| Qiming | when senlin adjusts cluster scale, it is always based on the "reality", the current size of the cluster | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | so they always know this value and they don't need to rely on senlin to keep it | 13:23 |
| Qiming | if you want to make sure the current size (cached in cluster's nodes list) is correct, you can still do a health check | 13:23 |
| Qiming | there is no conflict ther | 13:23 |
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| Ruijie | okay, I think I got it .. we show the desired and current size, let user decide what to do | 13:24 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, maybe we should consider to rename the property of "desired_capacity"... | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | that is how a user should be doing | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | and that is actually what a monitoring software doing | 13:24 |
| Ruijie | Here is an problem we met. | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, suggestions on renaming? | 13:25 |
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| Ruijie | current is 3, scale to 5, but 1 failed. | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes. Or we keep it in current status but add some explanation on it | 13:25 |
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| Ruijie | then to make the process corrct, I need to scale out 1 again | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | Ruijie, in that case, the current size is 4, your last desired_capacity is 5 | 13:26 |
| Ruijie | And now we are using receiver to do scale, that means, I need to create another receiver to scale out 1 .. | 13:26 |
| Qiming | you can see that from openstack cluster show | 13:26 |
| Qiming | we don't do convergence | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | uses should check the current size of a cluster after an operation and explicitly tell us what to do next, via another service request | 13:27 |
| Ruijie | yes Qiming, I understand, I mean if we based on old desired capacity, senlin will correct this process, then user will be free ...:) | 13:28 |
| Qiming | no, it may be too dangerous | 13:28 |
| Qiming | we actually don't know what happened | 13:28 |
| Qiming | maybe the server has run out of resources | 13:28 |
| Qiming | keep on trying creating a new node is only a waste of time | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | your other point, as I read from etherpad, is to ensure cluster recover to its desired capacity | 13:29 |
| Qiming | that makes sense to me | 13:29 |
| Qiming | if only we make the behavior configurable | 13:30 |
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| Ruijie__ | sorry just dropped... | 13:30 |
| Qiming | <Qiming> your other point, as I read from etherpad, is to ensure cluster recover to its desired capacity | 13:30 |
| Qiming | <Qiming> that makes sense to me | 13:30 |
| Qiming | <Qiming> if only we make the behavior configurable | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | I'd suggest we make the service robust and predictable first | 13:31 |
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| Ruijie__ | yes Qiming | 13:31 |
| Qiming | instead of trying to make it a smart robot | 13:31 |
| Ruijie__ | to correct the failure scaling when do scaling action again | 13:31 |
| Qiming | especially be cautious when we teach senlin to guess what users meant | 13:31 |
| Qiming | Ruijie__, that makes perfect sense to me | 13:31 |
| Qiming | that is what the English word "recover" means, IMO | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | thx for bringing up these topics | 13:32 |
| Ruijie__ | another option is: we make scale as scale, and to do this process in recovery .. | 13:32 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:33 |
| Qiming | make the service dumb and stable | 13:33 |
| Ruijie__ | then all scaling based on current number of nodes, cluster recover to correct all failures | 13:33 |
| Qiming | yes, that is what I was suggesting | 13:33 |
| Qiming | don't mix scaling with recovery instead | 13:34 |
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| Ruijie__ | okay Qiming, that makes sense. And shell we do health check in scaling process, to make it configurable | 13:34 |
| Qiming | yes, that sounds reasonable too | 13:35 |
| Qiming | adding line 20 to etherpad just now | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | done? | 13:35 |
| Ruijie__ | okay, Qiming, I will modify the draft :) | 13:35 |
| Ruijie__ | yes Qiming | 13:35 |
| Qiming | okay, you may want to create a BP for this | 13:36 |
| Qiming | or maybe two BPs? | 13:36 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:36 |
| Qiming | next is about RDO packaging | 13:36 |
| XueFeng | Rdo is in debug | 13:36 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | health mgmt | 13:37 |
| Qiming | I'm not aware of any progress there | 13:37 |
| Qiming | senlinclient functional test | 13:37 |
| Qiming | no progress there either? | 13:37 |
| XueFeng | Yes, will do it | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | alright | 13:38 |
| Qiming | LB policy improvement | 13:38 |
| Qiming | yet waiting to see a patch on that | 13:38 |
| Ruijie__ | let me see | 13:38 |
| Qiming | em, that's all on the list | 13:39 |
| Ruijie__ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447267/ | 13:39 |
| Qiming | website is so slow | 13:40 |
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| XueFeng | Hi,ruijie | 13:40 |
| Ruijie__ | yes XueFeng | 13:40 |
| Qiming | okay, Ruijie__ , will jump onto that | 13:40 |
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| XueFeng | it seems its the same with base. | 13:41 |
| Qiming | cool, the link is in etherpad now | 13:41 |
| Ruijie__ | yes XueFeng, just removed one parameter. | 13:41 |
| XueFeng | Don't get the point | 13:41 |
| Ruijie__ | I am still thinking how to process the data in a better way | 13:41 |
| XueFeng | So will update the patch? | 13:42 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | take your time then | 13:42 |
| Ruijie__ | yes XueFeng, will update it latter. :) | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | anything else on pike work items | 13:43 |
| Qiming | ? | 13:43 |
| XueFeng | ok | 13:43 |
| Qiming | we can move on now | 13:43 |
| Qiming | #topic boston summit prep | 13:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "boston summit prep (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:43 | |
| Qiming | I haven't got time to touch base with xinhui on the talk preps | 13:43 |
| Qiming | will do that asap | 13:44 |
| Qiming | elynn, any news you can share? | 13:44 |
| elynn | not yet now | 13:44 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:44 |
| elynn | You could touch with xinhui | 13:44 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussion | 13:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:44 | |
| Qiming | elynn, will do | 13:44 |
| Qiming | XueFeng, your turn | 13:45 |
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| XueFeng | Ok | 13:45 |
| elynn | xinhui and I are working on open-o staff recently. | 13:45 |
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| XueFeng | In 2017.3.18 there is a openstack meetup in NanJing China. | 13:45 |
| XueFeng | And there will be a atricle about the meetup in weixin "yunkaiyuan". | 13:45 |
| Qiming | elynn, take my knees | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | 18th, April? | 13:45 |
| XueFeng | March | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | oh, you mean the meetup has finished | 13:46 |
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| XueFeng | Have finished:) | 13:46 |
| XueFeng | The first topic is about senlin project. | 13:46 |
| elynn | Just some trivial things which trap xinhui too. | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, that is great | 13:47 |
| XueFeng | And I do a introduce for senlin:) | 13:47 |
| elynn | Good to know more people in Nanjing get to know senlin! | 13:47 |
| XueFeng | Yes | 13:47 |
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| XueFeng | That will be | 13:48 |
| XueFeng | Four parts about this topic. | 13:48 |
| XueFeng | 1. Cluster requirements in openstack | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | XueFeng, I think most of us have read the article you wrote | 13:49 |
| Qiming | it is great | 13:49 |
| XueFeng | 2.What is senlin and what is senlin can do | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | yep :) | 13:49 |
| Qiming | what we are curious about is the questions | 13:49 |
| Qiming | expectations | 13:49 |
| Qiming | complaints | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | or problems we can help address | 13:49 |
| Ruijie__ | also shared it to my colleagues | 13:49 |
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| XueFeng | 3.How to slove as+ha+lb all in one.Senlin can do this | 13:50 |
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| XueFeng | 4.Senlin Boston submit | 13:50 |
| XueFeng | Senlin in Boston Submit | 13:50 |
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| XueFeng | And in the meetup | 13:51 |
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| XueFeng | Anohter people intordue Sahara | 13:52 |
| XueFeng | person | 13:52 |
| XueFeng | And I think we need to do some explaination about senlin and sahara | 13:53 |
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| XueFeng | What is the different. Many peoples don't know | 13:53 |
| Qiming | any other feedback? | 13:55 |
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| XueFeng | Yes | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | okay, if you have a summary | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | you can send it out later to the team | 13:57 |
| XueFeng | OK | 13:57 |
| XueFeng | :) | 13:57 |
| Qiming | if there are no other topics for discussion | 13:57 |
| Qiming | we can release the channel now | 13:57 |
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| XueFeng | ok | 13:58 |
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| XueFeng | good night,all | 13:58 |
| Qiming | thanks for joining, guys | 13:58 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 13:58:31 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-21-13.00.html | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-21-13.00.txt | 13:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-21-13.00.log.html | 13:58 |
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| bcafarel | igordcard: ccf meeting? calendar says it's now :) | 14:09 |
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| tmorin | o/ hi folks | 14:32 |
| tmorin | sorry for being late | 14:32 |
| tmorin | or perhaps I'm not late...? | 14:32 |
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| bcafarel | tmorin: o/ | 14:36 |
| tmorin | hi bcafarel :) | 14:37 |
| tmorin | is ccf meeting this week ? | 14:37 |
| bcafarel | it should be the correct time (if I setup my calendar correctly), maybe a DST change side-effect for igordcard :) | 14:37 |
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| reedip | is it Now ???? | 14:38 |
| igordcard | hi all | 14:38 |
| igordcard | unfortunately I got held in internal discussions here, and I have to get used to this new time too :( apologies all | 14:39 |
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| igordcard | ping bcafarel tmorin reedip still around? | 14:39 |
| tmorin | yep ! hi :) | 14:39 |
| bcafarel | igordcard: hi! and yes | 14:39 |
| reedip | Yeah, parallel meetings | 14:39 |
| reedip | next week its going to be 3 simultaneously ! | 14:39 |
| igordcard | you are good participants :) | 14:40 |
| igordcard | I'll start it now, it's a very lightweight meeting today and davidsha isn't around to go deep on the PoC | 14:40 |
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| reedip | k | 14:40 |
| igordcard | #startmeeting network_common_flow_classifier | 14:40 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 14:40:53 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is igordcard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:40 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)" | 14:40 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'network_common_flow_classifier' | 14:40 |
| igordcard | 2 min while I make a change to the wiki | 14:41 |
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| igordcard | agenda: | 14:42 |
| igordcard | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/CommonFlowClassifier#Discussion_Topic_21_March_2017 | 14:42 |
| igordcard | #topic PoC status | 14:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PoC status (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)" | 14:42 | |
| igordcard | davidsha has kindly submitted the PoC code for review at: | 14:43 |
| igordcard | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445577/ | 14:43 |
| igordcard | I see some comments from ralonsoh already | 14:43 |
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| igordcard | I invite all to take a look at it, I will as well | 14:43 |
| igordcard | I'd say there is no need to be very detailed in the reviews since it's just a PoC | 14:44 |
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| igordcard | the most important for now is agree on the architecture and work towards consistency with the spec (bidirectionally) | 14:44 |
| igordcard | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333993/ | 14:45 |
| igordcard | ping pcarver xgerman | 14:47 |
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| igordcard | if you left because the meeting didn't start, we're here now :) | 14:47 |
| bcafarel | xgerman at least should not be far away, I see fwaas meeting in progress in meeting-4 | 14:48 |
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| igordcard | bcafarel: also see yushiro there, but he's not on this channel | 14:48 |
| xgerman | yep | 14:48 |
| reedip | I pinged him... he is in the fwaas meeting fright now | 14:48 |
| igordcard | alright it's all about the PoC, moving on... | 14:49 |
| tmorin | I'm listening, willing to make a pass on both specs and poc code when I find the time | 14:49 |
| igordcard | #topic Open discussion | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)" | 14:49 | |
| reedip | yushiro is chairing the meeting, it would be difficult for him to come right now but would come after some time | 14:49 |
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| igordcard | networking-fwaas meeting: Weekly on Tuesday at 1400 UTC in #openstack-meeting-4 | 14:49 |
| igordcard | will always conflict with this one, hopefully we can still make progress | 14:50 |
| igordcard | reedip: right... that justifies why he couldn't vote for this time | 14:50 |
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| igordcard | thanks tmorin | 14:51 |
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| igordcard | I haven't submitted a new patchset after xgerman reviews in order to accumulate more feedback | 14:51 |
| xgerman | cool! | 14:51 |
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| igordcard | alright, it's all from my side | 14:52 |
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| igordcard | my main commitment for the next couple of weeks is to review to PoC and address further ccf spec comments | 14:52 |
| igordcard | as I work very close to davidsha, we'll also actively attempt to address divergences between spec and PoC (or future code) as quick as possible | 14:53 |
| reedip | igordcard : thanks for adding me as a reviewer, will also look into the PoC ...tomorrow though :) ( its late here now ) | 14:53 |
| igordcard | I'm keeping this meeting session running until 1459UTC in case the fwaas finishes early | 14:54 |
| bcafarel | hopefully I will have enough time to catch up on spec (and poc code too now) in the meantime | 14:54 |
| igordcard | thanks reedip | 14:54 |
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| igordcard | thanks bcafarel | 14:55 |
| tmorin | igordcard: I haven't read PS13 of the specs, but I have one question: did you already had time to add the items I suggested to the TODO list at the top, or some of them ? | 14:55 |
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| igordcard | tmorin: yes, I either addressed all of them or almost all of them | 14:57 |
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| igordcard | tmorin: depending on how extensive I was in my changes | 14:57 |
| tmorin | igordcard: good, one additional reason for me to make a pass on it :) | 14:57 |
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| igordcard | alright folks I'm closing the meeting | 14:59 |
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| igordcard | thank you all | 14:59 |
| igordcard | bye! | 14:59 |
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| tmorin | bye ! | 14:59 |
| igordcard | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| tmorin | thanks | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 14:59:32 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-03-21-14.40.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-03-21-14.40.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-03-21-14.40.log.html | 14:59 |
| reedip | thanks igordcard .. | 14:59 |
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| yuval | #startmeeting karbor | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 15:00:24 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 15:00 |
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| yuval | Hello everybody | 15:00 |
| yuval | and welcome to the weekly karbor meeting | 15:00 |
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| zhonghua | hi | 15:00 |
| chenying | hi | 15:00 |
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| yuval | #info zhonghua and chenying in meeting | 15:01 |
| yuval | waiting for anyone else? zhangshuai? | 15:01 |
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| yuval | let's begin | 15:02 |
| zhonghua | sorry, I donot know | 15:02 |
| yuval | #topic fullstack | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fullstack (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:02 | |
| yuval | chenying: you added this item | 15:02 |
| chenying | yes | 15:02 |
| chenying | I want to add a new fullstack job, focus on the operationengine tests. | 15:03 |
| chenying | What's your oppion about it? | 15:03 |
| yuval | chenying: add new fullstack jobs? sounds great | 15:03 |
| yuval | chenying: wait, new job or new tests? | 15:03 |
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| chenying | IMO, the fullstack takes too much time. | 15:04 |
| chenying | new job, so we can move some fullstack tests to new job. | 15:04 |
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| yuval | chenying: do you know how much time each test takes right now? | 15:05 |
| yuval | chenying: why not enable concurrency, as zhangshuai is trying to do? | 15:05 |
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| chenying | As you know, zhangshuai works on this patch for a long time. 'Update fullstack efficiency' There are some error about swit when parallelly runing tests. | 15:06 |
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| yuval | chenying: ok, and? | 15:07 |
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| chenying | The reason is that, the swif will handle the request parallelly, the time is too long and the rcp will timeout, because of the swift runing the vm, the vm don't have high performance. | 15:08 |
| yuval | chenying: if zhangshuai ran into a swift error, there might be real issue there, that we need to solve. Separating the tests into two gate jobs will not resolve that | 15:08 |
| yuval | chenying: are you sure this is the issue? | 15:09 |
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| chenying | yuval: yes I and zhangshuai test this patch for one or two days. | 15:09 |
| yuval | chenying: how do you know the problem is swift performance? | 15:10 |
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| chenying | yuval: When cinder call swift api to do volume backup, it may take 4 or 5min to backup a volume. | 15:10 |
| yuval | chenying: wait | 15:10 |
| yuval | chenying: the main issue about zhangshuai patch is, that swift _fails_ for some calls | 15:11 |
| chenying | yuval in the situation runing the test parallelly. | 15:11 |
| yuval | chenying: not the long time it takes | 15:11 |
| yuval | chenying: besides, how do you know swift is the bottleneck? | 15:11 |
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| chenying | yuval: No The reason is taking too long . | 15:12 |
| yuval | chenying: I do not understna | 15:12 |
| yuval | *understand | 15:12 |
| yuval | chenying: please reiterate | 15:12 |
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| chenying | yuval: The reason is that swift taking too long time, and the rpc will timeout. | 15:13 |
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| yuval | chenying: do you have something to support that claim? log file? | 15:15 |
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| chenying | Yes log file, We have calculated the handling time of swift by the time log of rpc messages id when cinder call the backup api(backup colume to swift). | 15:17 |
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| chenying | In the situation runing the test parallelly It take about 4 -5 min. | 15:17 |
| yuval | chenying: very interesting. Can you refer me to the log messages later? Maybe we can do something to resolve that in the same gate job. If we don't have a choice, we will split into two different gate jobs | 15:18 |
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| chenying | zhangshuai can provide the log file about using swift to backup volume tomorrow. I don't have it now. | 15:21 |
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| yuval | chenying: great | 15:21 |
| yuval | chenying: great job | 15:21 |
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| yuval | #topic pike | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:22 | |
| chenying | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/karbor-Pike-planning | 15:22 |
| yuval | #link https://ethercalc.openstack.org/karbor-pike | 15:23 |
| yuval | chenying: never updated that etherpad | 15:23 |
| yuval | chenying: see the ethercalc | 15:23 |
| chenying | yuval We have added our name to the task that want to do. | 15:23 |
| yuval | also, please do not change or add tasks, just assign to yourself | 15:23 |
| yuval | it is sorted by priorirty and size (estimation) | 15:24 |
| chenying | OK I will ask other guys to update this link tomorrow. | 15:25 |
| yuval | also, we have a launchpad milestone: | 15:25 |
| yuval | #link https://launchpad.net/karbor/+milestone/pike-ms | 15:25 |
| yuval | chenying: again, please update only the assignee | 15:26 |
| yuval | (carrier) | 15:26 |
| chenying | I know. | 15:27 |
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| yuval | #topic Open Discussion | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:29 | |
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| yuval | Anything else? | 15:31 |
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| chenying | I don't have any topics. | 15:31 |
| yuval | Have a good night! | 15:31 |
| yuval | :) | 15:31 |
| yuval | #endmeeting | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 15:31:43 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-21-15.00.html | 15:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-21-15.00.txt | 15:31 |
| chenying | bye | 15:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-21-15.00.log.html | 15:31 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting neutron_ci | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 16:00:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci' | 16:00 |
| manjeets | o/ | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | good day everyone | 16:00 |
| jlibosva | o/ | 16:00 |
| dasm | o/ | 16:00 |
| dasanind | o/ | 16:00 |
| * ihrachys waves at mlavalle | 16:00 | |
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| mlavalle | o/ | 16:01 |
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| * mlavalle waves back at ihrachys | 16:01 | |
| ihrachys | ok let's start with reviewing action items from prev meeting | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | "ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel" | 16:02 |
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| ihrachys | didn't happen, I am a slug, will need to wrap into this week | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | #action ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | next is "haleyb and mlavalle to investigate what makes dvr gate job failing with 25% rate" | 16:02 |
| mlavalle | hi | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | #link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=8&fullscreen | 16:02 |
| mlavalle | I've been digging in Kiabana into this | 16:03 |
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| mlavalle | since it is in the check queue, it is laborious to separate failures caused by patchset and real failures | 16:03 |
| mlavalle | for real failures, I don't have a conclusive diagnostic yet | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | any idea why gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial is not in grafana board at all? | 16:04 |
| mlavalle | no^^^^ | 16:04 |
| mlavalle | maybe haleyb might speak to that | 16:04 |
| mlavalle | I don't see him around, though | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | oh because it's gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv now | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | note -nv | 16:05 |
| mlavalle | ok cool | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | #action ihrachys to fix the grafana board to include gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv | 16:05 |
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| ihrachys | mlavalle: it's hard to say if there is any trend beyond regular check queue issues | 16:05 |
| mlavalle | of the real failures that I have analyzed, the most common case is {u'code': 500, u'message': u'No valid host was found. There are not enough hosts available.' | 16:06 |
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| ihrachys | which is usually because scheduler failed to talk to libvirtd isn't it? | 16:06 |
| mlavalle | Yeah, I think so | 16:06 |
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| mlavalle | I haven't seen enough evidence yet, though | 16:07 |
| mlavalle | I would like to watch this a few more days | 16:07 |
| mlavalle | I just wanted to share with the team the trend that I am seeing | 16:07 |
| ihrachys | ok let's sync the next week when the board is hopefully fixed | 16:07 |
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| mlavalle | cool | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | ok next was "ihrachys explore why bug 1532809 bubbled into top in e-r" | 16:08 |
| openstack | bug 1532809 in OpenStack Compute (nova) liberty "Gate failures when DHCP lease cannot be acquired" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532809 - Assigned to Sean Dague (sdague) | 16:08 |
| mlavalle | I'll keep watching this over the next few days | 16:08 |
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| ihrachys | I checked logs, and it was because ODL gate was triggering it, it's just their gate setup issue I believe | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | overall the query seems to me rather generic: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445596/ | 16:09 |
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| ihrachys | hence delete request ^ | 16:09 |
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| ihrachys | next was "jlibosva fix delete_dscp for native driver: https://review.openstack.org/445560" | 16:09 |
| ihrachys | it's merged, yay. there are still issues in the job that bring us to the next item | 16:09 |
| ihrachys | "jlibosva to fix remaining fullstack failures in securitygroups for linuxbridge" | 16:09 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva: progress there? | 16:09 |
| jlibosva | I attempted to make it work then I was pointed out kevinbenton started similar patch | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | is it conntrack issue reintroduced by kevinbenton lately? | 16:10 |
| jlibosva | yes | 16:10 |
| jlibosva | the thing is that iptables driver in linuxbridge agent doesn't remove conntracks due to missing zones | 16:10 |
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| jlibosva | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/441353/ | 16:10 |
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| jlibosva | conntracks == conntrack entries | 16:11 |
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| ihrachys | makes sense, gotta have a closer look, though it's failing in unit tests right now | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva: so we proved it fixes the failure? | 16:11 |
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| jlibosva | I don't think that patch is final. | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | I see test_securitygroup(ovs-hybrid) is failing there | 16:12 |
| jlibosva | I'll try to support kevin or take over if needed | 16:12 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: which means it fixes the LB one :) | 16:12 |
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| ihrachys | or that it breaks ovs? | 16:12 |
| jlibosva | that's a side-effect, yes. It still needs some work to be done | 16:12 |
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| ihrachys | ok | 16:14 |
| jlibosva | that's all I can tell about that | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | I see test_controller_timeout_does_not_break_connectivity_sigkill bubbles up since we landed it | 16:14 |
| jlibosva | yep, I reported a bug about that some time ago I think | 16:14 |
| * jlibosva searches | 16:14 | |
| jlibosva | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1673531 | 16:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1673531 in neutron "fullstack test_controller_timeout_does_not_break_connectivity_sigkill(GRE and l2pop,openflow-native_ovsdb-cli) failure" [Undecided,New] | 16:15 |
| jlibosva | I haven't looked at it yet though | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva: I understand that fullstack is not voting but would probably make sense to tag those bugs as gate-failure nevertheless | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | since they may indicate something actually broken | 16:16 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: alright | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | and since we want it voting this time :) | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | I added the tag | 16:16 |
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| ihrachys | ok next item was "anilvenkata to follow up on HA+DVR job patches" | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | the patch is still up for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383827/ | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | there were some back and forth comments, seems the patch is finally ready for merge | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | clarkb: would be cool to see you revisit ^ | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | ok, next item was "jlibosva to figure out the plan for py3 gate transition and report back" | 16:19 |
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| jlibosva | this is still 'to be done' | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | ok let's repeat it | 16:20 |
| jlibosva | can you please move it to the next week? | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | #action jlibosva to figure out the plan for py3 gate transition and report back | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | next was "manjeets respin https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/ to include gate-failure reviews into existing dashboard" | 16:20 |
| manjeets | ihrachys, done | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | I see the patch was respinned yesterday: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/ | 16:20 |
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| manjeets | dashboard will look like https://tinyurl.com/lqdu3qo | 16:21 |
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| ihrachys | cool, let's review that and then chase infra to get it in | 16:21 |
| manjeets | scroll all the way to end | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | ack. I would like to see it higher the stack | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | somewhere near Critical | 16:21 |
| manjeets | that'll be one line change i believe I can do that | 16:22 |
| ihrachys | without gate, we can't land anything, so it would make sense to give it a priority | 16:22 |
| ihrachys | ack | 16:22 |
| ihrachys | and... that's it for action items from the previous week | 16:22 |
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| ihrachys | #topic State of the Gate | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "State of the Gate (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:23 | |
| mlavalle | quite a few! | 16:23 |
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| ihrachys | mlavalle: as always, makes it easier to track things | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | several breakages happened the prev week that we dealt with | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | one was a hilarious breakage by os-log-merger integration that was hopefully unraveled by https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:fix-os-log-merger-crash | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | turned out os-log-merger was not really too liberal about accepted output | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | then there was a eventlet induced breakage from yesterday fixed by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447817/ | 16:25 |
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| ihrachys | there is a follow up for the patch here up for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447896/1 | 16:25 |
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| ihrachys | there is still a gate breakage by an OVO test up for review here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447600/ | 16:26 |
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| ihrachys | it's not consistent, but may hit the gate sometimes | 16:26 |
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| ihrachys | since it's unit tests, we gotta make it stable before people are used to recheck | 16:26 |
| ihrachys | :) | 16:26 |
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| ihrachys | any other fixes that we are aware that will fix some gate failures? | 16:27 |
| jlibosva | not that I'm aware of | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | cool | 16:29 |
| * manjeets remember oslo-log-merger crashing multiple jobs | 16:30 | |
| ihrachys | manjeets: that is fixed and discussed above | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | #topic Gate failure bugs | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate failure bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:30 | |
| ihrachys | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=gate-failure | 16:30 |
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| ihrachys | I am wondering about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1627106 | 16:30 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1627106 in neutron "TimeoutException while executing tests adding bridge using OVSDB native" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Terry Wilson (otherwiseguy) | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | has anyone seen it lately? | 16:30 |
| manjeets | ihrachys, yea i noticed that from jenkins results | 16:30 |
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| ihrachys | the query is at http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/#1627106 | 16:31 |
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| ihrachys | and it shows 0 fails in 24 hrs / 0 fails in 10 days | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | which apparently means that we squashed it somehow :) | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | otherwiseguy: ^ are we in agreement? | 16:31 |
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| otherwiseguy | ihrachys, I *hope* so :) | 16:32 |
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| ihrachys | ok let's close the bug and see if it shows up again | 16:32 |
| * otherwiseguy dances | 16:32 | |
| ihrachys | nice job everyone and especially otherwiseguy | 16:32 |
| manjeets | otherwiseguy, \o/ | 16:33 |
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| ihrachys | I also believe we can close https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1632290 now that metadata-proxy is rewritten to haproxy? | 16:33 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1632290 in neutron "RuntimeError: Metadata proxy didn't spawn" [Medium,Triaged] | 16:33 |
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| jlibosva | otherwiseguy rocks | 16:33 |
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| otherwiseguy | jlibosva misspelled "openstack" | 16:34 |
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| ihrachys | the only place the metadata logstash query hits is this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/401086/ | 16:35 |
| ihrachys | which is all red | 16:35 |
| ihrachys | so it's not unexpected that metadata is also borked there | 16:35 |
| ihrachys | I will close the bug | 16:35 |
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| ihrachys | I am looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1673780 and wonder why we track vpnaas bugs in neutron component | 16:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1673780 in neutron "vpnaas import error for agent config" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto) | 16:37 |
| ihrachys | it's not even stadium participant | 16:37 |
| manjeets | ihrachys, would it make sense to have gate failures at Top before RFE's ? | 16:37 |
| manjeets | https://tinyurl.com/lqdu3qo | 16:38 |
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| ihrachys | manjeets: yeah, probably | 16:38 |
| ihrachys | #action ihrachys to figure out why we track vpnaas bugs under neutron component | 16:38 |
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| ihrachys | another bug of interest is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1674517 and there is a patch from dasanind for that: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447781/ | 16:39 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1674517 in neutron "pecan missing custom tenant_id policy project_id matching" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Anindita Das (anindita-das) | 16:39 |
| ihrachys | as you prolly know we switched to pecan lately and now squash bugs that pop up | 16:40 |
| mlavalle | yeap, they are going to show up now | 16:40 |
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| mlavalle | but it's the right time to do it, early in the cycle :-) | 16:41 |
| manjeets | ihrachys, it will be now like https://tinyurl.com/mj2uyw5 | 16:41 |
| ihrachys | manjeets: + | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | there were several segfaults of ovs vswitchd component | 16:43 |
| ihrachys | see https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1669900 | 16:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1669900 in neutron "ovs-vswitchd crashed in functional test with segmentation fault" [Medium,Confirmed] | 16:43 |
| ihrachys | and https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1672607 | 16:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1672607 in neutron "test_arp_spoof_doesnt_block_normal_traffic fails with AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'splitlines'" [High,Confirmed] | 16:43 |
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| ihrachys | I don't think we can do much about segfaults per se (we don't maintain ovs) | 16:44 |
| ihrachys | and afaik in functional job, we don't even compile ovs from source | 16:44 |
| ihrachys | right? | 16:44 |
| jlibosva | right | 16:44 |
| ihrachys | but the second bug is a bit two sides | 16:44 |
| ihrachys | one, yes, it's a segfault | 16:44 |
| ihrachys | but that should not explain why our code fails with AttributeError | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | we should be ready that ovs crashes, and then we may get None from dump-flows (or whatever is called there) | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | I was thinking that latter bug should be about making the code more paranoid about ovs state | 16:46 |
| ihrachys | it's ofctl though, which is not default driver, so maybe not of great criticality | 16:46 |
| ihrachys | otherwiseguy: thoughts on ovs segfaults? | 16:47 |
| otherwiseguy | ihrachys, I haven't looked at the crash bugs unfortunately (other than a cursory "oh, ovs segfaulted. that's bad". | 16:48 |
| otherwiseguy | ) | 16:48 |
| mlavalle | lol | 16:48 |
| ihrachys | :) | 16:49 |
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| ihrachys | I don't recollect segfaults in times when we were compiling ovs | 16:49 |
| otherwiseguy | I'd love for a vm snapshot to be stashed away in that case that we could play around with the core dump etc., but ... | 16:49 |
| ihrachys | otherwiseguy: yeah | 16:49 |
| ihrachys | otherwiseguy: I don't think we collect core dumps | 16:49 |
| ihrachys | otherwiseguy: just dumps would be helpful | 16:49 |
| ihrachys | no need for the whole vm state | 16:50 |
| otherwiseguy | at least a thread apply all bt full output or something | 16:50 |
| ihrachys | maybe it's just oversight. | 16:50 |
| ihrachys | anyone want to chase infra about why we don't collect core dumps? :) | 16:50 |
| ihrachys | I suspect it may be a concern of dump size | 16:51 |
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| otherwiseguy | are core dumps really that useful without the environment they were created? | 16:51 |
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| ihrachys | otherwiseguy: you have config and logs; you can load debuginfo into gdb to get symbols | 16:52 |
| otherwiseguy | if you have *exactly* the same libraries, etc. | 16:52 |
| ihrachys | we have exact rpm version numbers | 16:52 |
| ihrachys | I don't think it moves so quick you can't reproduce the environment as in gate | 16:53 |
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| ihrachys | in the end, it will be glibc and ovs-whatever-lib and some more, but not whole system | 16:53 |
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| ihrachys | btw .rpm -> .deb above, it's xenial | 16:54 |
| ihrachys | ok we gotta figure out something, at least patching neutron so that not to crash so hard | 16:54 |
| ihrachys | I don't see any more bugs in the list that may be worth discussing right now | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open discussion | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:55 | |
| manjeets | ihrachys, even though it is related with upgrades but somehow ci | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:new-neutron-devstack-in-gate is slowly progressing, if you have spare review cycles, please chime in, there are some pieces in neutron | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | manjeets: shoot | 16:55 |
| clarkb | I think ideally people would be replicating locally for the vast majority of failures. Then for those that fail to reproduce we figure out grabbing a core dump specifically for that | 16:55 |
| manjeets | grenade-multinode-lb is mostly failing on one kind of cloud | 16:56 |
| clarkb | has anyone tried running ./reproduce.sh and then hitting ovs until it segfaults/ | 16:56 |
| ihrachys | clarkb: it happened like twice in last weeks | 16:56 |
| manjeets | on which instance brings up time out according to me | 16:56 |
| manjeets | it passes on ovh, osic clouds but fails on rax | 16:56 |
| clarkb | ihrachys: ah ok so ya in that case I think you'd set it up to handle that specific case | 16:56 |
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| ihrachys | clarkb: so we would cp /var/run/*.core or wherever they are stored into logdir? | 16:57 |
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| ihrachys | ideally like /var/run/ovs-vswitchd*.core or smth | 16:57 |
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| manjeets | I am experimenting tempest_concurrency=2, which 4 by default on rax if that is causing failure on rax node for failure over smoke tests | 16:58 |
| clarkb | ihrachys: ya, you may also need to set ulimit(s) | 16:58 |
| ihrachys | manjeets: yeah, may be worth that | 16:58 |
| manjeets | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447628/ | 16:58 |
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| ihrachys | manjeets: at least to understand if it's indeed the case of concurrency and load | 16:58 |
| ihrachys | manjeets: I think it fails rather often to catch it with rechecks? | 16:59 |
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| manjeets | recheck also depends on which cloud it get placed on I want to make sure if concurrency is not one breaking things | 16:59 |
| ihrachys | manjeets: ok let's follow up in gerrit | 17:00 |
| ihrachys | we are at the top of the hour | 17:00 |
| ihrachys | thanks everyone | 17:00 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| manjeets | sure thanks | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 17:00:17 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-21-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-21-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-21-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| jlibosva | thanks, bye | 17:00 |
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| ayoung | Hello! | 17:50 |
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| notmorgan | . | 17:51 |
| * notmorgan pretends to not be here... dangnabbit... ok maybe time to make coffee while I wait. | 17:52 | |
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| breton | that feel when wake up 10 minutes before the alarm | 17:52 |
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| thingee | ankur-gupta-f4: we're going to bring up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330027/ in the tc meeting. This is going to help with the visibility of vendors issue http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/110151.html | 17:55 |
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| thingee | ankur-gupta-f4: what do you think about my last comment for dealing with the target statuses? | 17:56 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | I agree. | 17:56 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | It will need some work | 17:56 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | Neutron just merged its version of feature classification yesterday as well. | 17:57 |
| thingee | mugsie and I think sdague mentioned about this following the os-api-ref model | 17:57 |
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| thingee | ankur-gupta-f4: ^ | 17:57 |
| thingee | I'm not sure I know what that means | 17:57 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | We can ask in the tc meeting. When is it? | 17:58 |
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| thingee | ankur-gupta-f4: an hour | 17:58 |
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| mugsie | thingee: it means have this as a separate sphionx extension | 17:58 |
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| sdague | thingee: what I mean was, don't add it to oslo.sphinx | 17:59 |
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| sdague | start a new library | 17:59 |
| mugsie | so the feature classification can be versioned separatly | 17:59 |
| sdague | ++ | 17:59 |
| ayoung | Key, | 17:59 |
| ayoung | Key, | 18:00 |
| ayoung | KeySTONER! ASSEMBLE! | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 18:00:08 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| cmurphy | o/ | 18:00 |
| * thingee runs | 18:00 | |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | ping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, antwash, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, cmurphy, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, portdirect, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, SamYaple, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers, | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | StefanPaetowJisc, stevemar, topol, shardy, ricolin | 18:00 |
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| hrybacki | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | agenda #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:00 |
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| rderose | o/ | 18:00 |
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| ravelar | o/ | 18:01 |
| dstanek | ehlo | 18:01 |
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| lbragstad | maybe next week we will start doing roll call | 18:01 |
| breton | yes, that would be useful | 18:02 |
| breton | i think the list will be twice less after that | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | and give people and opportunity to opt into the ping list again | 18:02 |
| antwash | o/ | 18:02 |
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| * lbragstad makes a note | 18:03 | |
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| lbragstad | alright - we have a lot to do today so let's go ahead and get started | 18:03 |
| dstanek | i bet you can just look at the speakers in the last 10 meetings | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | #topic Pike goals: deploy in wsgi | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pike goals: deploy in wsgi (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| lbragstad | so far there are two community goals that have been accepted for Pike | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | the first one is deploy in wsgi - which we already support | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | so that's good | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440840/ | 18:04 |
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| lbragstad | #topic Pike goals: python3.5 support | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pike goals: python3.5 support (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| lbragstad | the second is supporting python 3.5 which we already do as well | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/pike/python35.html | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | except python-memcached* | 18:04 |
| rodrigods | great :) | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | sortof...sometimes..whoknows | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan that's the only case where we don't support py3 deployments, right? | 18:05 |
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| notmorgan | yeah, well also mod_wsgi is weird with py3 | 18:06 |
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| notmorgan | but you can make it work...ish | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | (and i think that would be mitigated after/if we move pymemcached | 18:06 |
| dstanek | python-memcache has a py3 version....but i think we just don't like it | 18:06 |
| ayoung | python3-memcached.noarch | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: it has been spotty in actually working | 18:06 |
| ayoung | Summary : Pure python3 memcached client | 18:06 |
| ayoung | URL : https://github.com/eguven/python3-memcached | 18:06 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: i use it all the time outside of keystone without any issues | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | behaves badly at times then gets fixed...then doesn't... | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | basically move to pymemcache | 18:07 |
| ayoung | looks to be actively worked on | 18:07 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: not really | 18:07 |
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| notmorgan | I've talked with the maintainer, he has next to no time on it | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | https://github.com/eguven/python3-memcached/commit/5539869760b2c13ddf0820df66b97cbb72f99043 | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | I tried to take it over 3 different times | 18:07 |
| ayoung | https://github.com/linsomniac/python-memcached | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | yeah linsomniac has no time | 18:08 |
| ayoung | What was last touched in December | 18:08 |
| ayoung | joy | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | not a bad dude, just overwhelmed | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | with other work | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | that happens | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | pymemcached is maintained by Pinterest | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | but should it stop us from asserting that pike goal? | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | or do we need to move to pymemcached? | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | we should move to pymemcached | 18:09 |
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| lbragstad | or use the goal as an excuse to move to pymemcached this release? | 18:09 |
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| notmorgan | use the goal as the excuse | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | :) | 18:09 |
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| lbragstad | fair enough | 18:09 |
| ayoung | Need to get it into the distributions. Does Debian support it? | 18:09 |
| dstanek | if we want it then we should create a spec. it doesn't change the fact that we already assert py3 support | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | iirc, everyone but fedora | 18:09 |
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| notmorgan | we support py3, except in some cases with other deps | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | Should not be hard to get the package accepted then | 18:10 |
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| * notmorgan will brb, coffees | 18:11 | |
| ayoung | https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/python-pymemcache/ Fedora has it, too | 18:11 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek well - it would prevent keystone from running in specific python3 environments, so i'm wondering if that is enough to keep us from asserting the goal? | 18:11 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: python-memcached is a packaging issue. there is no work for us there. | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: cool. | 18:12 |
| ayoung | Yeah we have python3-pymemcache.noarch | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | or if the goal is only specific to keystone source? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | is just not memcached, only client | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: we need a driver for oslo.cache and a fix in ksm | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: not just packaging | 18:12 |
| dstanek | i can't speak to any mod_swgi issues, but uwsgi is fine with py3 | 18:12 |
| ayoung | https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=19104 | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | uwsgi works fine, mod_wsgi is odd, but works, you need to be very specific about how you configure it | 18:13 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: a driver to use python3-memcached? | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | oh - i was under the assumption that parts of python-memcached weren't py3 compatible | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | it assumes py2 (iirc) | 18:13 |
| ayoung | So mod_wsgi is the C code part | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: python-memcache behaves weirdly in py3 | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: yes | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | but you can specify a different interpreter | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | and it has always seemed to work | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | uwsgi doesn't care. | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | and works perfectly | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | but by default py2 is what mod_wsgi uses | 18:14 |
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| lbragstad | ok - so what i'm hearing is that we should be good to move forward with asserting that goal is completed for keystone | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | yes. | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | ok - but we should move at some point | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | but we *should* ensure we move to pymemcache this cycle if at all possible | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | s/move/move to pymemcached/ | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | ok | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | is anyone interested in helping dig into that work | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | and make sure we have mod_wsgi for keystone configured to run in py3 mode in gate at least for some tests | 18:15 |
| ayoung | python3-mod_wsgi | 18:16 |
| ayoung | its a different package in Fedora | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | the work is 1) write a dogpile/oslo.cache driver, 2) convert ksm to use pymemcached instead of python-memcached *or* to use oslo.cache | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | 3) default keystone to use the new oslo.cache driver instead of the python-memcache one | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | all should be very easy to do | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | i can only imagine that a spec is required for #2 | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | (you might need a minor layer of conversion, since pymemcache does not support the same interfaces as python-memcached) | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: nah. | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | just do it as a straight up conversion. | 18:17 |
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| notmorgan | this imo, is a bug if we do a conver to pymemcache | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | a spec if we move to oslo.cache | 18:17 |
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| lbragstad | a spec if we move ksm to use oslo.cache? | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | yeah | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | because that isa much bigger change | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | a lot of "setuyp the region" etc | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | same things we do in keystone | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | where direct use of pymemcache is "create translation and instantiate correct object" | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | no functional changes, no option changes, etc | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | oslo.cache is a *much* bigger change | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan is there a noticeable advantage to one approach over the other? | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | oslo.cache might impact swift more | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | i could see having everything using oslo.cache consistently being an advantage of simplicity | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | pymemcache, if you use a simple translation object, would have no impact | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | oslo.cache is more consistent with *all* of openstack | 18:20 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: ++ | 18:20 |
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| notmorgan | those are the two sides of the concerns | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | i prefer oslo.cache | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | i think pymemcache might be *way* simpler to just drop in | 18:20 |
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| lbragstad | ok - i can work on drafting a spec that details the work and at least propose it for review | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | depenmding on the amount of time folks have to dedicate to it | 18:20 |
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| dstanek | we use python-memcache directly not because we wanted to limit dependencies right? | 18:21 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek or was it because keystonemiddleware's caching implementation pre-dated oslo.cache? | 18:23 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: someone told me way back when that is was a dep thing. not sure who though | 18:23 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: that's definitely true, but i don't know if it's the *because* | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | dolphm me either | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan do you know? | 18:24 |
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| lbragstad | we can circle back on this, too | 18:25 |
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| dstanek | wha... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268662/ | 18:25 |
| ayoung | dstanek, yes? | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | dstanek huh | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | dstanek looks like jamie was at least planning on moving to oslo.cache | 18:26 |
| ayoung | perpetually | 18:26 |
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| lbragstad | that's a good enough answer for me | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | i can attempt to document this in a keystonemiddleware spec | 18:27 |
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| lbragstad | #action lbragstad to propose spec to keystonemiddleware detailing the steps required to move to oslo.cache | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | #topic Boston Forum Brainstorming | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Boston Forum Brainstorming (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:28 | |
| dstanek | lbragstad: ++ | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | who all is planning on going to the forum? | 18:28 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: there is a linked bug that you touched last too | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | apparently there are planning sessions and we have a deadline of April 2 to have things submitted | 18:29 |
| dstanek | i'm planning on going. just have to work out parking. | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-Keystone-brainstorming | 18:29 |
| gagehugo | I might be going | 18:29 |
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| * cmurphy likely going | 18:29 | |
| lbragstad | i just need a rough idea of what our attendance might look like | 18:30 |
| knikolla | i'm going | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | and possible topics | 18:30 |
| ayoung | I'll be there | 18:30 |
| knikolla | it's a 15 min walk from my office | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | knikolla nice | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | i'm planning on organizing this just like we did for the PTG | 18:30 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: are you planning on doing keystone sessions? | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | just start dumping information in the etherpad and i'll go through and organzie it | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | dstanek that's what i'm trying to figure out | 18:31 |
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| lbragstad | given a list of topic, i'll try and organize them into buckets and propose them | 18:31 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: i probably won't be in many of those. i'm planning on going to presentations and hallway talking about openstack | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | and since the deadlines is within a couple weeks - it would be nice if everyone threw their ideas down sooner rather than later | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | I'm presenting on the RBAC proposal, along with knikolla | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | i was under the assumption that the forum was going to be tailored for operator feedback, so i wasn't expecting to have to organize many keystone specific dev sessions | 18:33 |
| ayoung | Hope to have a demo ready for then | 18:33 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: as in having a keystone "room" for operators to visit? | 18:33 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek yeah - i was for sure going to try and get that | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | Will also plan on having a Climbing gym night. | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | it seems like a lot of other projects are planning on having dev-like discussions (like the PTG) | 18:34 |
| dstanek | i'm actually hoping to learn more about the rest of the ecosystem | 18:35 |
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| lbragstad | ok - maybe i'll swing by the release room and ask specific in there | 18:36 |
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| lbragstad | because I'm kind of unsure what to plan for based on who is going to be there in comparison to past summits | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | regardless, if there are things you want to talk about at the forum, please feel free to add them to the etherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-Keystone-brainstorming | 18:36 |
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| lbragstad | anyone have any questions on the forum that they want me to relay? | 18:37 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: in ksm, we uses python-memcached because swift passes us an object in some cases, and 2) history (not dep related) | 18:38 |
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| notmorgan | sorry for the delay | 18:38 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan no worries, thanks for the update | 18:38 |
| * notmorgan is chatting with landlord about dishwasher and potential "giving up the ghost" issues. | 18:38 | |
| henrynash | (henry joined, sorry to most unfashionably late) | 18:38 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: thanks. i wish i could remember who told me is was a dep issue | 18:38 |
| ayoung | henrynash, ! You coming to Boston? | 18:38 |
| henrynash | no, unfortunately not | 18:39 |
| lbragstad | if there aren't any more questions specific to the forum we can move on | 18:39 |
| lbragstad | henrynash o/ | 18:39 |
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| lbragstad | #topic VMT Update: keystonemiddleware diagram and docs | 18:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "VMT Update: keystonemiddleware diagram and docs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:39 | |
| lbragstad | knikolla gagehugo | 18:39 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: in ksa it would be a dep issue | 18:39 |
| notmorgan | but we don't cache there | 18:39 |
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| gagehugo | wip draft review is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447139/ | 18:40 |
| gagehugo | which has the updated arch diagram | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | knikolla gagehugo you two just need reviews on #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447139/ ? | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | as of right now? | 18:40 |
| gagehugo | yeah, but those docs still need to be filled in more | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447139/2/doc/source/artifacts/keystonemiddleware/pike/figures/keystonemiddleware_architecture-diagram.png,unified | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | yeah - i parsed it a bit | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | gagehugo i need to review it again | 18:41 |
| ayoung | um... knikolla isn't the fetch from Memcache prior to the call to keystone? | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | gagehugo knikolla anything else VMT related? | 18:42 |
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| knikolla | ayoung: nice catch. | 18:42 |
| gagehugo | ah yeah | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | I thought we stored the token validations in memcache, so why else would we be doing memcache stuff if not to see if we have a valid token? Is there another reason? | 18:42 |
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| knikolla | i'll double check to make sure, but it would make sense that memcache is checked first. | 18:43 |
| gagehugo | ayoung I probably just put the numbers in the wrong order | 18:43 |
| ayoung | Do we also pass on the memcache key for the service to use later on? | 18:43 |
| knikolla | ayoung: i do not think so. will check that too, see if they share config sections for that. | 18:44 |
| ayoung | so, it should be steps 3, then 4, then 2, with something to indicate that steps 2 depends on there being no response in step 4 | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | sounds like we can keep this going in the review | 18:45 |
| knikolla | yeah | 18:45 |
| gagehugo | ok | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | gagehugo knikolla ayoung thanks! | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | #topic pike specs | 18:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike specs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:45 | |
| lbragstad | #info 3.5 weeks until Spec Proposal Freeze | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | #info 11 weeks until Spec Freeze | 18:46 |
| ayoung | RBAC in middleware should be there | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | its already approved, but in future state | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | lets spend the last 15 minutes on spec | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | specs* | 18:46 |
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| lbragstad | ayoung i think its in ongoing | 18:46 |
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| lbragstad | #topic pike specs: Project Tags | 18:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike specs: Project Tags (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:46 | |
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| lbragstad | gagehugo o/ | 18:46 |
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| gagehugo | o/ | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431785/ | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | this one is looking good | 18:46 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, right, and knikolla is picking up active development of the server side piece. It was working in Nov, but then has lain fallow | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | i only had a couple last minute/minor questions | 18:47 |
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| gagehugo | I am fine with limiting tags by # per request | 18:47 |
| ayoung | I think I am actually OK with this. I've seen how Kubernetes uses labels, and I think this will be done is somewhat the same way | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | gagehugo do we have an idea of what that number should be? | 18:47 |
| ayoung | the real question is priority: | 18:47 |
| gagehugo | nova uses 50 for instances | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | gagehugo they limit the total number of tags an instance can have to 50? | 18:48 |
| gagehugo | no that was per request | 18:48 |
| gagehugo | from that schema | 18:48 |
| ayoung | IE: who can set the tag. And I think that was the issue we had last time. I could see a scalability issue with number. | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | i.e. bulk tag options are limited to 50 as a part of API validation? | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | ayoung yeah - that was something edleafe was describing to me the other day | 18:48 |
| gagehugo | https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/kilo/approved/tag-instances.html#rest-api-impact | 18:49 |
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| lbragstad | it's better to have a bunch of smaller tags than to have one *massive* tag | 18:49 |
| ayoung | cuz I think the way that you explained it to me before it was a huge gaping security hole | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | which begs another question, do we want to do more strict validation on the length/size of individual tags? | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | yes. yes yes | 18:49 |
| ayoung | strictissississimo | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | make sure they are URL safe | 18:50 |
| gagehugo | sure | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | i think that's a requirement of the API WG | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | er, a guideline that they suggest for tag implementation | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | implementations* | 18:50 |
| ayoung | gagehugo, BTW... you do realize that this is going to be a security nightmare, right? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | people are going to want to be able to tag their own projects, but that will get in the way with the "official" tags | 18:51 |
| ayoung | which will have security/billing info implications | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | ayoung right now only a project admin is going to be able to modify tags | 18:51 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, define "project admin" | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | "god-mode" admin | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | whatever admin we use in the rest of our policy file | 18:52 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, admin and is_admin_project=True? | 18:52 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, gagehugo what if.... | 18:52 |
| ayoung | 2 distinct entities | 18:52 |
| ayoung | one which is the labels that a user can put on their own resources, the other which are admin only | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | ayoung it should require the same rules as https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/etc/policy.json#L40-L41 | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | at least until we have a better way to define granularity in policy that allows us to get around the security concerns | 18:53 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, three little words: | 18:53 |
| ayoung | hierarchical | 18:53 |
| ayoung | multi | 18:53 |
| ayoung | tenancy | 18:53 |
| lbragstad | sure | 18:53 |
| ayoung | all the same issues come up here | 18:53 |
| lbragstad | I expect that to make this more complicated | 18:53 |
| ayoung | a global set of tags is going to be a nuisance | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | lbragstad, I wonder if tags should be scoped to domains. | 18:54 |
| ayoung | lets as henrynash | 18:54 |
| gagehugo | hmm | 18:54 |
| ayoung | henrynash, should tags be scoped to domains? | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | we're going to run into similar permission issues with the limits proposal | 18:54 |
| henrynash | hmm\ | 18:54 |
| henrynash | on tags my cut feel is probably yes | 18:54 |
| henrynash | gut | 18:54 |
| dstanek | i don't know how you'd do that | 18:55 |
| ayoung | dstanek, me either | 18:55 |
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| dstanek | if i want to see all the projects that i have access to that are tagged with 'dev' - which dev? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | gagehugo, lets plan on a pretty heavy brainstorming session on this at the summit | 18:55 |
| gagehugo | ayoung: ok | 18:55 |
| dstanek | to me tags are really an arbitrary string added by the user that has permission to modify the resource | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | dstanek ++ | 18:56 |
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| gagehugo | dstanek: ++ that is the intended goal | 18:56 |
| ayoung | dstanek, if the tag is used for some billing purposes, then you want to limit who can add that tag to any resource | 18:56 |
| ayoung | or remove it | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | that's how i was thinking ofit | 18:56 |
| ayoung | so, if the end goal is to be able to tag all "high-cost" projects you can't do that without removing the ability to set tags from the project admin | 18:57 |
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| lbragstad | i would think that would be up to the deployer to make sure if they are using billing tags that they control who has that access | 18:57 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: how would they do that? | 18:58 |
| ayoung | so, if you want tags as a way to be able to self organize, that is a very different use case than the "tag all projects across domains for billing purposes" | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | dstanek currently our project api requires an admin | 18:58 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: ++ | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | dstanek i'd keep the tags api for projects consistent with that | 18:58 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: but you could have domain admins be able to edit and they there's a security hole for the billing usecase | 18:58 |
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| dstanek | hmmm...i have to think about this a little more. i just got done reading the spec and was pretty happy | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | dstanek can domain admins have the admin role? | 18:59 |
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| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/etc/policy.json#L40-L41 | 18:59 |
| breton | no my topic today again, eh? | 19:00 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: that is our default policy and not the policy everyone necessarily uses | 19:00 |
| ayoung | Times up | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | breton wanna talk about in -keystone? | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | dstanek right | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 19:00:36 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-21-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: for example, i just something base on the cloud sample | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-21-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-21-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
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| * clarkb looks around and waits for infra assemblage | 19:01 | |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | oh, wondered if I'd missed a memo | 19:02 |
| * AJaeger waves at clarkb | 19:02 | |
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| * jeblair eats sandwich | 19:02 | |
| cmurphy | o/ | 19:02 |
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| fungi | mmm | 19:02 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | infra team, something! | 19:02 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:02 |
| * jeblair eats sandwich | 19:02 | |
| fungi | this week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by [refreshes agenda] | 19:03 |
| fungi | fungi | 19:03 |
| jhesketh | Howdy | 19:03 |
| fungi | and cmurphy! | 19:03 |
| fungi | now i don't feel quite so alone | 19:03 |
| cmurphy | :) | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 19:03:52 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | something something forum something | 19:04 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | haha | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html if you think we should have specific forum sessions for infra. please tell me | 19:05 |
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| fungi | oh, slightly wrong link (but mostly right) | 19:05 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:05 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html if you think we should have specific forum sessions for infra, please tell me | 19:06 |
| fungi | my perspective of infra at the openstack forum is that we fight for the users (like tron) | 19:06 |
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| anteaya | how are those links different? | 19:06 |
| anteaya | they look the same to me | 19:06 |
| AJaeger | anteaya: hidden white space? ;) | 19:07 |
| fungi | yeah, they're not :/ one more | 19:07 |
| anteaya | ah | 19:07 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:07 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | and I was believing AJaeger | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114399.html if you think we should have specific forum sessions for infra, please tell me | 19:07 |
| fungi | THAT one | 19:07 |
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| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I'm going to propose a sessions to talk about https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-user-api-improvements but thats not infra specific and is instead fighting on light cycles | 19:07 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:07 |
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| fungi | clarkb: i'm in favor of anything involving lightcycles. go for it | 19:08 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-14-19.03.html Minutes from last meeting | 19:09 |
| fungi | ianw try booting a Xenial-based replacement for planet.openstack.org | 19:09 |
| ianw | not yet sorry ... will do | 19:09 |
| fungi | eh, no worries | 19:09 |
| fungi | #action ianw try booting a Xenial-based replacement for planet.openstack.org | 19:09 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
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| fungi | #info APPROVED: Zuul v3: remove references to swift | 19:10 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuulv3.html#jobs Zuul v3: remove references to swift | 19:10 |
| fungi | #info APPROVED: Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs | 19:10 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuulv3.html#projects Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs | 19:11 |
| fungi | doesn't look like there are any new proposed for council vote this week, but keep an eye on open specs changes for any which are ready to be brought forward | 19:11 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| fungi | nothing called out specifically here for this week | 19:12 |
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| fungi | #topic puppet 4? (cmurphy) | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet 4? (cmurphy) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| cmurphy | hi | 19:12 |
| fungi | exercising chair privilege to reorder my topic to teh end | 19:12 |
| cmurphy | first of all I apologize for being out of the loop for a while | 19:13 |
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| cmurphy | I wanted to gage current temperature on some old ideas | 19:13 |
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| cmurphy | is it worthwhile to try to move to puppet 4? | 19:13 |
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| ianw | we use puppet 4 on fedora? so things should mostly work? | 19:14 |
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| fungi | i assume as long as we're using puppet we should try to keep current on it, but i grant that not everyone necessarily shares my ideas on that matter | 19:14 |
| jeblair | cmurphy: welcome back! | 19:14 |
| clarkb | I think its trickier in some of our more involved manifests (the test image builds are relatively simple and work on 4) | 19:14 |
| cmurphy | ianw: that is my thinking, most of it should work already | 19:14 |
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| fungi | ianw: i expect most of our puppet modules are not exercised on the f25 jobs | 19:15 |
| clarkb | how soon will puppet 5 be a thing and should we just jump if its soon? | 19:15 |
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| ianw | ahh, yes, for general deployment | 19:15 |
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| * fungi also wonders about puppet 6 and 23 | 19:15 | |
| cmurphy | I think we we enhance some of our beaker testing we can do a better job of validating whether our modules work on puppet 4 | 19:15 |
| cmurphy | i got puppet-openstackci to work on puppet 4 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447243/ | 19:15 |
| clarkb | fungi: well I think 5 is in dev and coming soon? I may have confused myself though and am thinking of something else like ansible | 19:15 |
| AJaeger | puppet 3 is not supported by puppet anymore AFAIK | 19:16 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: yes that is correct | 19:16 |
| AJaeger | so, no more security release if something comes up | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:17 |
| fungi | clarkb: sure, i'm mostly wondering if we in general should stay on the puppet train wherever it leads, until we decide otherwise | 19:17 |
| cmurphy | also the upstream modules are moving away from supporting puppet 3 | 19:17 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: ya which is a really small surface for us because we don't run the puppet master anymore. The upstream modules leaving us behind is the bigger issue I think | 19:17 |
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| fungi | yeah, the upstream puppetlabs support of puppet is less of a concern as we have distro packages we could use | 19:17 |
| fungi | modules on the other hand | 19:18 |
| cmurphy | relatedly I was wondering if it would be a good idea to try to move openstack_project::single_use_slave into dib elements so that the nodepool images no longer need to depend on puppet | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | Ya, we talked about that for zuulv3 things | 19:18 |
| jeblair | that should be pretty close now, yeah? | 19:19 |
| cmurphy | it is? | 19:19 |
| * fungi feels like zuulv3 is close for that matter | 19:20 | |
| jeblair | i thought we made significant progress a while back. what's left? iptables, unbound, exim? did the ssh key thing get worked out? | 19:20 |
| clarkb | ssh is a non issue imo | 19:20 |
| clarkb | we use devuser element and its done | 19:20 |
| jeblair | cool | 19:20 |
| fungi | it should be a fairly hollow class at this point, and i don't think we have any objections to cleaning out the rest of it | 19:21 |
| cmurphy | ah I wasn't part of that | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | ya, we have a base zuul-worker element now, we should start iterating more on that | 19:21 |
| jeblair | bindep was a big step for that | 19:21 |
| clarkb | but yes iptables, unbound, exim would be the big ones | 19:21 |
| ianw | deploying admin users too | 19:21 |
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| clarkb | iptables is likely straightforward as well and we could/should use a generic element for that if one doesn't arleady exist | 19:21 |
| jeblair | the bindep part is done right, or do we still depend on puppet for fallback? | 19:22 |
| clarkb | ianw: we had talked about just installing zuul/jenkins | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | ianw: we discussed about stopping deploying admin users, in favor of using zuul | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: ++ | 19:22 |
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| clarkb | ianw: and force admin users to get on the hosts the same as anyone else using the images locally | 19:22 |
| fungi | ianw: i'm fine with not having my account on the workers and just logging in as jenkins^Wzuul | 19:22 |
| cmurphy | I can try to dedicate some time to finishing that up | 19:22 |
| cmurphy | and I can propose a spec to finish the puppet 4 work | 19:22 |
| fungi | cmurphy: that would be highly appreciated | 19:22 |
| clarkb | fwiw I can't find a release date for puoppet 5 so I am probably mistaken on that being soon | 19:23 |
| fungi | both the cleanup and any puppet 4 spec you want to kick around | 19:23 |
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| cmurphy | cool | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | I would not object to createing ubuntu-xenail-ng in nodepool.yaml, and iterating on that in parallel for zuulv3 things | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | if we don't think that complicates things | 19:24 |
| fungi | i doubt we even need a new image for that | 19:24 |
| fungi | unless there's something obvious i'm overlooking | 19:24 |
| clarkb | ya I think just go piece by piece and test local builds should be good | 19:25 |
| fungi | we already integration test with the nodepool devstack job right? | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | yes | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | but no ready-script things any more | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | but, that should be okay | 19:25 |
| bkero | That seems simpler | 19:25 |
| clarkb | we erady script on master | 19:25 |
| fungi | yeah, i'd like to assume our current testing is sufficient, or improve it | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | true | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | however, we don't use install_puppet.sh for our nodepool dsvm jobs | 19:26 |
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| fungi | granted, it's possible i live in some sort of fairly land | 19:26 |
| fungi | fairy land too | 19:26 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | :) | 19:26 |
| clarkb | ya its a much simpler ready script | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | either way, I am happy to help | 19:26 |
| clarkb | but the machinery is there still | 19:26 |
| anteaya | would be great if you lived in fairly land, I'd go there | 19:26 |
| fungi | it's a fairly satisfying place | 19:26 |
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| anteaya | sounds like it | 19:26 |
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| fungi | if you like compromises, i recommend it | 19:27 |
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| fungi | cmurphy: anything else on this, or do you have what you need? | 19:28 |
| cmurphy | fungi: nothing else, just wanted to float the idea | 19:28 |
| fungi | idea floated, reinforced, and currently planned for condo units | 19:28 |
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| fungi | #topic Can we ever get rid of openstack-infra and openstack-dev Git namespaces? (fungi) | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Can we ever get rid of openstack-infra and openstack-dev Git namespaces? (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
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| jeblair | please? | 19:29 |
| fungi | the shade split-out discussion has brought this back to the forefront | 19:29 |
| * fungi gets link | 19:29 | |
| jeblair | the whatnow? | 19:29 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/446426 Move shade into its own top-level team | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i feel like someone buried the lede on this | 19:30 |
| fungi | the idea that shade, requestsexceptions and oaktree belong in a team unto themselves (probably with some/lots of infra people) | 19:30 |
| clarkb | in part beacuse apparently openstack wants to be able to consume these tools and can't do that unless they are part of openstack themselves? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | neat? did i miss something? | 19:31 |
| fungi | avoiding making infra deliverables direct deps on openstack[tm] services | 19:31 |
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| fungi | maybe that should have been an infra meeting topic instead | 19:31 |
| jeblair | i'm sorry, i don't want to distract from the topic at hand. but i am curious what newsletter i should sign up for so i get to hear about this sort of thing. | 19:32 |
| fungi | mordred is not here to defend himself so feel free to have at him ;) | 19:32 |
| clarkb | I'm still not sure I agree with that premise (I also don't think that openstack should dep on shade and friends on principle/principal? english hard) | 19:32 |
| ianw | umm, does that mean our recent discussions about dib mean it's not appropriate for infra? (do not wish to derail, but seems similar) | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: I only caught it bceause I saw the governance patch go by in #opensatck-dev | 19:32 |
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| Shrews | jeblair: i think this came from a discussion in #openstack-shade between mordred and dhellmann | 19:33 |
| Shrews | based on scrollback i read | 19:33 |
| clarkb | ianw: IMO it should be fine for openstack to consume libs from not openstack as long as the licensing is compatible and the software is not dead | 19:33 |
| fungi | ianw: that's a good point if dib is a dep of official openstack[tm] services (the subsequent discussion there brought up that dib-utils is a dependency of tripleo) | 19:33 |
| clarkb | ianw: which means it should be fine from that perspective to consume dib from infra and shade from infra | 19:33 |
| clarkb | (I separately think that shade being the hack around openstack's problems means that openstack itself shouldn't dep on it and should instead fix its problems) | 19:33 |
| Shrews | clarkb: such yes | 19:34 |
| fungi | shade as a dep of openstackclient and oaktree is what i think brings this discussion to a head | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | clarkb: oxford says 'principle' http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/08/principle-or-principal/ | 19:34 |
| Shrews | fungi: osc depends on shade? that's news to me | 19:34 |
| Shrews | occ, yes, but not shade | 19:35 |
| fungi | Shrews: oh, occ, not osc. you're right | 19:35 |
| jeblair | the dependency thing doesn't make sense to me. however, if folks who work on shade more than i do think that it should become a first-class deliverable of the openstack project because openstack needs this kind of interface to actually make it work, that sounds more compelling. that's not what the commit message says though. | 19:35 |
| fungi | if folks who work on openstack are okay with the fact that openstack needs this kind of interface to actually make it work, i'm pretty sad | 19:36 |
| fungi | but that seems like where things are headed | 19:36 |
| pabelanger | is the issue more that we shade doesn't have stable branches? | 19:36 |
| pabelanger | which makes it hard to track against | 19:36 |
| fungi | and isn't under openstack release management | 19:36 |
| jeblair | i'd prefer realism to idealism either way. :) | 19:37 |
| Shrews | jeblair: Can't say it was a group decision. I was just informed about it yesterday myself and haven't put much thought into whether or not it is a good idea or not. | 19:37 |
| fungi | fwiw, i haven't voted on it in either a ptl or tc capacity (yet). mordred did briefly run the commit message by me | 19:38 |
| clarkb | yesterday in #openstack-dev mordred said "I think the actual problems go away with restification" | 19:38 |
| clarkb | which is already the plan aiui | 19:38 |
| jeblair | (also, minor footnote for history, requestsexceptions was pulled from gertty) | 19:38 |
| jeblair | restification? | 19:38 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: ya, that also makes packaging easier too | 19:39 |
| clarkb | jeblair: replacing shade's deps on python-fooclient and just talking openstack api with rest directly | 19:39 |
| fungi | i think requestsexceptions was rolled into the proposal because shade depends on it | 19:39 |
| fungi | again i highlight the term "proposal" | 19:39 |
| jeblair | oh, the packaging problems, yeah | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | restification is great for that. it makes nodepool packagable. :) | 19:40 |
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| clarkb | my only real concern here is that it feels like we are proxying the real issues with this proposal rather than directly tackling the problems that shade users face | 19:40 |
| clarkb | its possible that this is actually a good fix for those problems but its hard to know without calling them out more explicitly | 19:40 |
| fungi | s/shade/openstack/ | 19:40 |
| fungi | shade is one (fairly successful) attempt by openstack users to make sense of the openstack api landscape | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, i'd love it if we can have a conversation about what's actually going on. hopefully mordred will drop by and chat. | 19:41 |
| jeblair | fungi: i dunno if you want to get back to the actual topic, or if this one is more fun -- but yeah, i'd love to flatten the namespace. :) | 19:42 |
| fungi | he indicated to me that he's unable to attend this week. i'm happy to table this discussion until he's around. it's not like that governance proposal is getting approved without my vote | 19:42 |
| clarkb | +1 to further flattening | 19:42 |
| clarkb | I think the biggest pain there is going to be devstack | 19:43 |
| jeblair | honestly, the stackforge transition was doable. the big thing is.. | 19:43 |
| jeblair | yeah devstack :) | 19:43 |
| clarkb | but maybe we just set up a window, do it, accept things will be broken and fix them as quickly as possible | 19:43 |
| fungi | so anyway, to un-derail (my fault really) this topic, the suggestion of moving shade to its own official team was met with the objection "but it's in the openstack-infra git namespace" | 19:43 |
| jeblair | which is irrelevant, but i'm happy to take the opportunity to clean it up (to further show it's irrelevant) :) | 19:44 |
| fungi | "users will be confused if openstack-infra namespace repos are dependencies of openstack proper namespace services" | 19:44 |
| clarkb | but also we could use redirects more aggressively in places | 19:44 |
| jeblair | fungi: that's a quote said by a person? | 19:44 |
| clarkb | to alleviate the pain of transitioning | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | fungi: I am more confused my the statement :) | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | by* | 19:44 |
| fungi | it would be relatively simple even now to redirect all namespaces on git.o.o | 19:44 |
| jeblair | a related question is: should we drop openstack/ from gerrit and git.o.o? | 19:45 |
| fungi | pabelanger: so the supposition is that the current semi-random use of different git namespaces is non-random, because people want to assume patterns when they look at things, and so will assume misleading meanings | 19:45 |
| fungi | jeblair: if we can, absolutely in my opinion | 19:45 |
| jeblair | i think that would be a nice benefit to help justify the pain | 19:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes | 19:46 |
| ttx | That would remove assumptions altogether | 19:46 |
| fungi | i thought it was the most compelling reason, honestly | 19:46 |
| persia | +1 to dropping namespaces instead of merging. | 19:46 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ++ | 19:46 |
| jeblair | imagine how much "money" we will save by not making developers type so much! | 19:46 |
| pabelanger | ha | 19:46 |
| ttx | hah | 19:46 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | hahaha, I was thinking how much it'd be nicer as a user though! | 19:46 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | user of gerrit | 19:47 |
| fungi | end result being that github has openstack/\(.*\) and we serve git.o.o/\1 | 19:47 |
| ttx | which also makes sense, and clearly establishes github as a mirror | 19:47 |
| fungi | and project shortnames in gerrit (and storyboard for that matter) | 19:47 |
| ttx | oh, yes, that! | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | don't forget tox.ini 128 char limit too :) | 19:47 |
| * ttx always wanted to get rid of the prefix in storyboard | 19:48 | |
| jeblair | so maybe we should just do all of those things at once? pick a nice time in a cycle to do it (is there a nice time?). lots of warnings, etc. prepare project-config changes ahead of time. use codesearch to help prep related changes. | 19:48 |
| SotK | yeah, it would make shortname support in storyboard much easier | 19:48 |
| ttx | jeblair: summit week? | 19:48 |
| ttx | at least it's not around release time | 19:48 |
| fungi | or very early queens | 19:48 |
| ttx | and we expect lower activity | 19:48 |
| jeblair | ttx: tempting -- though would it annoy people that we will "break" things while they are summiting? | 19:48 |
| fungi | this is something which would probably need wide advance notice (much like the stackforge migration, but without the sliding migration opportunity probably) | 19:49 |
| ttx | jeblair: only drawback I think is that we might have less bandwidth to fix it for people who are trying to do work during that week | 19:49 |
| fungi | i expect to need to fix quite a lot | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | fungi: how much time in advance was the stackforge migration again? | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | fungi: yeah -- if we start now, we can probably do it in conjunction with the boston summit | 19:49 |
| ttx | I'll have to check how much would need fixing | 19:50 |
| fungi | i don't remember, but my recollection is at least 4 months | 19:50 |
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| ttx | people will complain, but at least we won't hear about it anymore after that | 19:50 |
| fungi | ttx: i expect we'd end up manually bypassing gating for more than a few circular dep changes | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i'm not sure that much more than a month is very useful. | 19:50 |
| jeblair | but obviously as much as possible. | 19:50 |
| anteaya | the people who will listen will listen if you give them a month, the people that won't listen won't listen regardless of how much time you give them | 19:51 |
| fungi | well, there's a good point. with new redirects on git.o.o (and as usual on github) we really only need the dev community aware beforehand | 19:51 |
| jeblair | we're at ~7 weeks before summit | 19:51 |
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| fungi | mainly because there will be LOTS of .gitreview changes needed | 19:52 |
| * EmilienM is hoping to have time for quick open discussion | 19:52 | |
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| fungi | i'm mostly convinced we should exercise admin oversight and just manually approve .gitreview patches in bulk even | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | that might work | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | maybe someone can write up a quick proposal and we can iterate on the ml? | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | cause it seems like we're generally in favor and have folks willing to do the work. | 19:53 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm happy to put this one forth, since it's my meeting topic | 19:53 |
| jeblair | sold | 19:54 |
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| ttx | I'll look up the release machinery for openstack/ or / stickyness | 19:54 |
| fungi | infra people are generally in favor, the wider community may raise objections but as long as we have good answers that's probably tractable | 19:54 |
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| ttx | "takes less space on disk" | 19:55 |
| fungi | #action fungi put forth proposal to flatten git namespaces | 19:55 |
| fungi | ttx: now you're getting it | 19:55 |
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| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:55 | |
| fungi | EmilienM: what's up? | 19:55 |
| EmilienM | hey infra! I want your feedback & vote on moving DIB to infra project: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445617/ | 19:55 |
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| ttx | IIRC at one point we proposed replacing all git repo names with UUIDs to avoid renaming altogether | 19:55 |
| EmilienM | I think I resolved all concerns in my patch | 19:56 |
| fungi | EmilienM: funny, that just came up in the context of the reason shade was proposed to move out of infra ;) | 19:56 |
| anteaya | ttx: I want to see that patch | 19:56 |
| jeblair | it's okay, it's already in openstack/ :) | 19:56 |
| fungi | ttx: sold, as long as we can spell fun things in hexidecimal | 19:56 |
| pabelanger | are we doing any precise migrations this week? | 19:57 |
| jeblair | EmilienM: seems good to me -- it's important enough i'm happy to contribute to emergency maintenance if needed. | 19:57 |
| fungi | pabelanger: ianw is still planning to test planet.o.o on xenial, jeblair and clarkb snapshotted lists.o.o to test in-place upgrading, and puppetdb can just be deleted for now until someone has time to fix the service entirely. that's all our remaining precise servers afaik | 19:58 |
| pabelanger | okay, I can dive into puppetdb | 19:58 |
| fungi | pabelanger: if you want to difure out puppetdb and puppetboard, then awesome. otherwise feel free to remove the server from site.pp and delete it in the meantime | 19:59 |
| fungi | s/difure/figure/ | 19:59 |
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| pabelanger | fungi: sure, I'll propose a patch for removal | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | maybe get a spec up for ARA? | 19:59 |
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| fungi | seems like a reasonable alternative now that we ansibkle | 19:59 |
| fungi | ansible | 19:59 |
| fungi | also we're at time | 19:59 |
| fungi | thanks everyone! productive meeting | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 20:00:10 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-21-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-21-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ansikibbles and bits | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-21-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | ... | 20:00 |
| fungi | ... | 20:00 |
| clarkb | re ARA, we may have to filter the raw puppet syslog | 20:00 |
| clarkb | (just somethign to keep in mind) | 20:00 |
| ttx | dims, dtroyer, EmilienM, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, sdague, stevemar: around ? | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | dhellmann, mtreinish and thingee are excused | 20:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 20:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | mordred had a last-minute emergency | 20:00 |
| dims | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | so small committee today | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 20:01:07 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| * edleafe acts nonchalant | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Our agenda for today is at: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| ttx | (friendly reminder: you can all use #info #idea and #link to help build a more readable summary) | 20:01 |
| thingee | ttx: I'm here | 20:01 |
| jroll | \o | 20:01 |
| ttx | cool! I was misinformed | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #topic Add naming poll info for R release | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add naming poll info for R release (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/445733 | 20:02 |
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| ttx | I don't see any objection to this one, will approve now | 20:02 |
| EmilienM | ship it | 20:02 |
| * rockyg kicks some dirt, looks up and whistles a tune | 20:02 | |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | I think we can volunteer mordred in his absnece to drive the next steps ? | 20:02 |
| sdague | yep | 20:02 |
| * cdent waves from the kitchen | 20:02 | |
| * mugsie lurks | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #action mordred to drive the R naming process | 20:02 |
| * flaper87 likes volunteering mordred for stuff | 20:02 | |
| ttx | On a related topic, we need to renew part of the TC, voting on the week of April 17 | 20:02 |
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| fungi | always a good bet to volunteer mordred in his absence | 20:03 |
| ttx | Which means nominations/campaigning early April | 20:03 |
| ttx | #action ttx to contact election officials to organize April TC elections | 20:03 |
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| ttx | In particular they may build in a campaigning week as that was requested by people after last election | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Add Golang CTI | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Golang CTI (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/410355 | 20:04 |
| ttx | dtroyer: o/ | 20:04 |
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| ttx | care to introduce it ? | 20:04 |
| dtroyer | Yes | 20:04 |
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| dtroyer | This is the common test interface for projects containing golang components, assuming mixed language projects may exist. | 20:05 |
| ttx | Looks like there are still a bunch of typos + late suggestions from sdague on target renaming | 20:05 |
| dtroyer | There are a few things not completed yet, listed in the commit and inside the doc | 20:05 |
| ttx | Beyond that I'm fine with it as a first version. CTIs are living documents anyway | 20:05 |
| sdague | yeh, on the target renaming the only thing I really think we want to consider is hardcoding of test types in here | 20:05 |
| dims | ttx : dtroyer : this is a living document right? wanted to ask before but slipped. | 20:05 |
| dtroyer | Modulo sdague's comments I have a PS ready for the rest of those | 20:05 |
| dims | :) | 20:05 |
| sdague | we evolved that on the python side over time | 20:05 |
| ttx | dims: yes | 20:05 |
| sdague | and seems weird to be that specific | 20:06 |
| dtroyer | dims: I believe so | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | dims: dtroyer it's a living doc | 20:06 |
| dims | ++ | 20:06 |
| sdague | make test, and make test-* would just seem to open up flexibility | 20:06 |
| fungi | seems fine to me | 20:06 |
| dtroyer | I called out both unit and functioanl testing targets because they are both specifically listed in the language requirements doc | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | mod nits, I think it looks good | 20:06 |
| fungi | worth noting, whatever project's jobs come first will probably de facto define those anyway | 20:07 |
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| fungi | as we'll mostly want to just reuse common job templates | 20:07 |
| sdague | dtroyer: yeh, we should probably roll that back there, because I honestly think we should be more flexible to adjusting that stuff as we go. | 20:07 |
| dtroyer | whether the 'test' target is specific or just calls some subset of the 'test-*' targets is just something we need to decide | 20:07 |
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| mugsie | I do like the suggestions sdague made for the makefile targets, but overall it looks good | 20:07 |
| mugsie | dtroyer: do we? as long at the "make test" call does something cnsistantly, do we really care? | 20:08 |
| dtroyer | sdague: so just specify 'test' as the default testing and other test targets prefixed with 'test-*'? | 20:08 |
| sdague | right, agreed | 20:08 |
| sdague | mugsie: ++ | 20:08 |
| ttx | dtroyer: want to quick-rev it ? Or need more time ? | 20:08 |
| dtroyer | I can quickly do that... | 20:08 |
| * flaper87 has his voting pen ready | 20:09 | |
| johnthetubaguy | and the plan is to merge what we have and work on the TODOs in a follow up patch? | 20:09 |
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| EmilienM | johnthetubaguy: that's how I understand it too | 20:09 |
| fungi | if that's the plan, i'm still good with it | 20:09 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: yes | 20:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, makes sense, just wanted to check | 20:09 |
| ttx | Python CTI wasn't built in a day | 20:09 |
| fungi | "living document" and all | 20:09 |
| dtroyer | johnthetubaguy: yes | 20:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | yep, my preference is totally to iterate on it | 20:10 |
| fungi | go cti sprung from odin's forehead, fully formed, right? | 20:10 |
| dims | next PS, let's merge then iterate :) | 20:10 |
| ttx | Not Odin's, just Doug Graves's | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | ttx: it took like 6 years :P | 20:10 |
| * fungi mixed up odin and zeus anyway | 20:11 | |
| fungi | not the right time of day to be bringing mythological references into the discussion | 20:11 |
| * dtroyer looks around suspicously for that Eric guy | 20:11 | |
| ttx | OK, maybe let's cover another topic real quick while Odin^WDean revs the patch | 20:11 |
| dtroyer | new PS up | 20:11 |
| ttx | jinx | 20:12 |
| ttx | ok, let's review it now then | 20:12 |
| sdague | +1 | 20:12 |
| fungi | in-meeting review is the best kind of review | 20:13 |
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| ttx | alright, lgtm | 20:13 |
| EmilienM | 7 votes, we have quorum | 20:13 |
| ttx | and... | 20:14 |
| ttx | approved | 20:14 |
| EmilienM | dtroyer: nice work, thanks :) | 20:14 |
| ttx | dtroyer: thanks for pushing this! | 20:14 |
| dtroyer | thanks everyone | 20:14 |
| ttx | #topic Add a "docs:install-guide-verified" tag | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add a "docs:install-guide-verified" tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:14 | |
| ttx | is asettle around? | 20:14 |
| annegentle | darn, I don't see her | 20:14 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/445536 | 20:15 |
| EmilienM | it's 10.14pm in London I don't think so | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | its sure late over here | 20:15 |
| ttx | annegentle: oh. Ho! | 20:15 |
| ttx | hi | 20:15 |
| annegentle | hiho | 20:15 |
| ttx | not 10.14. Merely 8.14pm | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, 8.15pm, but thats worse in some ways | 20:15 |
| annegentle | heh, yeah | 20:15 |
| fungi | EmilienM: ever been to london? that's early ;) | 20:15 |
| EmilienM | err, sorry I was confused | 20:15 |
| ttx | This looks pretty close | 20:15 |
| EmilienM | fungi: ahah, I've never been :) | 20:16 |
| * ttx looks up late revisions | 20:16 | |
| flaper87 | fungi: rofl | 20:16 |
| ttx | thingee has a -1 | 20:16 |
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| thingee | just on the fixing of distro packages | 20:16 |
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| annegentle | thingee yeah there's some dependence there? | 20:16 |
| mugsie | but, seen as the guide is package based, there is not much choice, is there? | 20:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | thing is the install guide requires the use of the distro packages right? | 20:17 |
| mugsie | johnthetubaguy: yeah | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | maybe I missed this in the early going, what are the consequences if the testing is not completed in a timely manner? | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | is that a tag-per-release? | 20:17 |
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| sdague | thingee: just commented on that | 20:17 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: could it "support" some components not using distro packages ? | 20:17 |
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| sdague | I think using the ops midcycle as representative of the whole community is a biased sample | 20:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | it does feel like this would be per release, in some ways, or reviewed | 20:18 |
| fungi | is it a priority review and testing list for the docs team? | 20:18 |
| mugsie | the way it is currently laid out, I dont think it could ttx | 20:18 |
| ttx | dtroyer: tags are not pre-release. But things like the project-navigator use a snapshot of tags from release time | 20:18 |
| thingee | the last time I spoke with the docs team on other projects getting their install guides in, it was agreed that we'd allow other forms of installations besides packages because of the reason given in comment | 20:18 |
| ttx | per-release* I mean | 20:18 |
| thingee | I don't think the tag really helps anything otherwise. | 20:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: its possible, just would be very strange | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | the doc says it;'ll be reviewed per-release | 20:18 |
| annegentle | thingee as in, "is this installable" yeah | 20:19 |
| thingee | well it helps the projects that can get attention from distros | 20:19 |
| ttx | flaper87: yes, a few weeks befroe so tha tthe tag is current when the release it out | 20:19 |
| annegentle | thingee but things are installable without distros | 20:19 |
| thingee | annegentle: from previous ops midcycles it has been expressed that packages are not the most common way people deploy openstack | 20:19 |
| mugsie | thingee: the issues can be wiht the docs themselves as well | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | ttx: right, which I honestly think is fine | 20:19 |
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| annegentle | thingee yeah | 20:19 |
| ttx | yep | 20:19 |
| thingee | and I don't believe the docs team should be dictating this | 20:19 |
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| mugsie | thingee: how do people deploy? | 20:19 |
| fungi | is the docs team overseeing the install guide testing? | 20:19 |
| sdague | thingee: the ops midcycles are the top 1% of the operators | 20:19 |
| ttx | Sounds like a nice cross-community discussion to have | 20:20 |
| sdague | and are doing much more custom stuff | 20:20 |
| ttx | docs+devs+ops | 20:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 20:20 |
| annegentle | thingee right, okay, so then is there a way for the docs team to get approved install instructions from each project at a certain point in time? I think there still is. | 20:20 |
| sdague | I think it's fine to have a tag which is "we've verified the install guide" | 20:20 |
| fungi | following the docs ml, in the past install guide testing has been coordinated there at any rate | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | ttx: +1 | 20:20 |
| sdague | which assumes using packages | 20:20 |
| sdague | because that's how install guides are, and work best for most people | 20:20 |
| mugsie | thingee: there is also deployment guides now as well | 20:21 |
| EmilienM | I agree that it would be a nice topic to propose at forumtopics.openstack.org | 20:21 |
| annegentle | EmilienM +1 | 20:21 |
| thingee | I agree with with sdague it should be just verified. I still believe it shouldn't just be off of packages though. | 20:21 |
| sdague | except, is it going to be any more informative there. We have to be really careful of sample bias in conversations like that. | 20:21 |
| ttx | sdague: I think "we ahve verifies the install guide is fine", however would be great not to bake install-using-packages in the tag, so that the install doc can evolve | 20:21 |
| thingee | you might as well request a tag "accepted by distros" then | 20:22 |
| sdague | ttx: given there are currently no install guides that do it a different way, it seems fine to me, and evolve it later | 20:22 |
| fungi | i can understand the concern that distro-package-based installation instructions, at least where commercial distros are concerned, is a bit of a gimme to those companies | 20:22 |
| annegentle | This was a good first point for discussion, I think it's good to write down what happens now and evolve. | 20:22 |
| annegentle | fungi yep :) | 20:22 |
| sdague | fungi: well, it's been that way for the last 4+ years in openstack | 20:22 |
| dtroyer | the problem with a "we verified it" tag is the time. in 6 months with a new rreelase does that tag apply to the current one or the previously verified one? | 20:22 |
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| fungi | sdague: totally aware, i've felt that way for 4+ years ;) | 20:23 |
| thingee | sdague: not sure that's true. mugsie can you comment on designate's deployment guide, since you can't have the right to the word of install guide? | 20:23 |
| annegentle | dtroyer the docs team currently doesn't cut a stable branch for openstack-manuals until the install guide is verified, is that what you mean? | 20:23 |
| mugsie | thingee: the docs team has a deployment guide section | 20:23 |
| annegentle | dtroyer and the stable branch is for the trailing-by-a-few-weeks release | 20:23 |
| sdague | fungi: well, you can write a new guide if you don't like the current one :) | 20:23 |
| annegentle | sdague everyone else does ;) | 20:23 |
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| ttx | thingee: how about we approve the current version, and you submit a change to decouple it from package-based installs ? So far the install guide is all package-based so not much hurt in merging the first version as-is ? | 20:23 |
| mugsie | #link https://docs.openstack.org/project-deploy-guide/ocata/ | 20:23 |
| annegentle | thingee yeah, the deployment guide is new this release | 20:24 |
| dtroyer | annegentle: I just left an example in a comment, but if Ocata is verified, when Pike rolls around, the status of the Ocata verification does not change, but if Pike is not verified what happens? | 20:24 |
| annegentle | dtroyer no team gets the tag for Pike until verification | 20:24 |
| fungi | sdague: yeah, i'm not arguing that the current install guides are bad, just that if they're only covering commercial distros then there's not a lot of gain in us regulating them and as a community eating the testing coordination | 20:24 |
| thingee | I'm fine with everyone else approving it. I'm not going to approve it and kind of tired of fighting this. | 20:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | there is no "for pike" right, you would have to either loose the tag or keep the tag "from" that point in time where it is no longer verified | 20:24 |
| dtroyer | so there is a tag per release? | 20:24 |
| ttx | dtroyer: I suspect they would remove the tag before release | 20:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, what ttx said | 20:25 |
| annegentle | thingee it's better to not approve and say what you think the better fight is? | 20:25 |
| annegentle | thingee I'm not entirely clear of the alternative | 20:25 |
| sdague | fungi: debian is in the current install guides | 20:25 |
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| ttx | dtroyer: no it's a tag updated once before every release | 20:25 |
| dtroyer | ttx: but the Ocata status has not changed. Or do we not let users have install guides for the relases they are actually deploying? (based on annegentle no-branch comment) | 20:25 |
| ttx | a bit like we update the diversity tags regularly | 20:25 |
| annegentle | ttx oh I mirespresented that then. | 20:26 |
| sdague | ttx: that does seem weird thought, I think we need branch tagging | 20:26 |
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| fungi | sdague: debian is always hanging by a thread in the install guides due to lack of commercial backing | 20:26 |
| mugsie | sdague: ++ | 20:26 |
| * dtroyer has not actually used these guides so really doesn't know this bit | 20:26 | |
| fungi | sdague: or popularity, depending on what word you prefer ;) | 20:26 |
| ttx | sdague: we do tag governance repo around elections. We could tag around releases | 20:26 |
| thingee | annegentle: my recommendation to you and asettle is to update the patch to be consistent with what has been discussed with previous guides. Don't lean on distro packages. | 20:26 |
| annegentle | ttx the stable/ocata does not exist yet for openstack-manuals | 20:26 |
| annegentle | ttx due to install guide issues | 20:26 |
| sdague | ttx: right, but if horizon was not verified in queens | 20:26 |
| annegentle | thingee ok thanks | 20:26 |
| sdague | then there is no history that is was in pike | 20:26 |
| thingee | annegentle: it's not going to help adoption of the smaller projects otherwise. | 20:27 |
| ttx | sdague: except if we tag around release time | 20:27 |
| ttx | to capture the picture "then" | 20:27 |
| sdague | ttx: ok, I think we disagree on needing the historical bits | 20:27 |
| sdague | but we probably won't resolve here | 20:27 |
| annegentle | thingee yeah, do you think that wider is better than narrower? In other words, right now the goal with the install guide is "be able to launch a VM" -- of course that can change but also it indicates nova-centric | 20:27 |
| dtroyer | yeah, I think we do need history somehow… | 20:27 |
| ttx | sdague: I mean we use the word "tag" too much, and that we agree | 20:28 |
| annegentle | dtroyer sdague okay, the idea being, these projects had install guides at these releases? | 20:28 |
| ttx | We have history if we tag the governance repository around releases | 20:28 |
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| jroll | "Any projects that maintain project-specific Installation Guides must have this tag for their guide to be linked from docs.openstack.org." - this makes me sad, with the requirement of "work alongside the docs team to test the instructions". the reason we have out of tree install guides is because the docs team didn't have time to do this :/ | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | ttx: was going to propose that | 20:28 |
| * jroll adds comment to gerrit, but wanted to point it out here | 20:28 | |
| thingee | jroll: +1 | 20:28 |
| fungi | jroll: i agree, it has a baked-in bottlenect | 20:28 |
| fungi | bottleneck | 20:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | jroll: hmm, I missed that bit | 20:29 |
| ttx | OK, sounds like this one needs a bit more baking | 20:29 |
| annegentle | jroll thingee sure, good to note | 20:29 |
| ttx | I propose we continue to iterate on the review | 20:29 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:29 |
| annegentle | thanks all | 20:29 |
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| ttx | #agreed continue to iterate on review | 20:29 |
| annegentle | I can try to summarize with info? | 20:29 |
| dtroyer | thanks annegentle | 20:29 |
| ttx | annegentle: please | 20:29 |
| fungi | bottleneck of the docs team deciding when this governance tag can be applied seems fine, but needs more self-service | 20:30 |
| annegentle | #info Questions on timing of application of the tag: when is it applied, and what history can we include for past releases? | 20:30 |
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| annegentle | #info Concerns about distro dependence mean that as-yet-unpackaged projects felt like they couldn't be included; however those project can be included | 20:31 |
| annegentle | #info Need for re-assurance that frameworks and tooling are in place for self-service docs written by projets | 20:31 |
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| ttx | nice summary, thx! | 20:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, its the publishing restrictions that seem problematic I think | 20:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | but that captures it I think | 20:32 |
| annegentle | #help Propose a forum discussion for data on whether many people need distro packages for install instructions | 20:32 |
| ttx | the "install guide" session | 20:32 |
| fungi | annegentle is a master of summary | 20:32 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy we can talk more about that in the review yeah | 20:32 |
| ttx | annegentle: care to add the session to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming ? | 20:32 |
| ttx | that way we won't forget | 20:33 |
| * ttx moves to next topic | 20:33 | |
| ttx | #topic Add tag assert:never-breaks-compat | 20:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add tag assert:never-breaks-compat (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:33 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/446561 | 20:33 |
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| ttx | mordred is not around but we should still complain about his change | 20:33 |
| ttx | As stated in my comment, I'd like to make sure this is realistic, and desirable | 20:33 |
| sdague | honestly, I'd rather table for mordred to be around | 20:33 |
| ttx | (since tags should drive desirable behavior i think) | 20:33 |
| ttx | he told me he would take our feedback in | 20:34 |
| sdague | I'm not quite sure I understand the purpose of this, and would like him to express it | 20:34 |
| ttx | ah, ok, fair | 20:34 |
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| ttx | I encouraged him to reorder his patches so that the shade stuff can be approved without this one | 20:34 |
| ttx | which will likely take more time | 20:34 |
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| dims | i like the steps in "If a breaking change is accidentally released," | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | sdague: mmh, I guess if it's not clear enough from the tag definition then it's probably a bad sign of the patch itself? | 20:35 |
| dims | dunno if we have that already somewhere else | 20:35 |
| ttx | sdague: probably something missing in the rationale section yes | 20:35 |
| * ttx moves on | 20:36 | |
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| ttx | #info will be discussed when mordred will be around, sdague would like to hear him speak about it | 20:36 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:36 | |
| ttx | * FYI on Unified Limits | 20:36 |
| ttx | sdague: floor is yours | 20:36 |
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| sdague | thanks | 20:36 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I have one for later | 20:36 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440815/ | 20:36 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114230.html | 20:36 |
| ttx | I have several! | 20:36 |
| sdague | so there is a spec, and a called out email thread (which also went to ops list) | 20:36 |
| sdague | we've got agreement in a subset of folks over a new approach to limits that would store them in keystone | 20:37 |
| sdague | as part of the path to a real hierarchical quota solution | 20:37 |
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| sdague | but, it would be really good to get more folks engaged there to make sure making a big shift like this isn't going to freak people out later | 20:38 |
| sdague | we are dangerously close to having a plan here that I think will work | 20:38 |
| sdague | which emerged out of the PTG | 20:38 |
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| sdague | so... tell your friends, dig in if this is something you have thoughts on | 20:39 |
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| * johnthetubaguy loves sdague's plan | 20:39 | |
| dims | sdague : a PTL mailing list would have been handy? | 20:39 |
| bauzas | \o | 20:39 |
| ttx | sdague: do you want to expose the plan to more users at the Forum, or will it be too late for that ? | 20:39 |
| sdague | ttx: the intent is to be working on implementation by then | 20:40 |
| ttx | ack | 20:40 |
| sdague | my timeline is that we're going to give it this week, and next for feedback, then make the go no go on the concept | 20:40 |
| sdague | and I need to write up the detailed interface adds for keystone still | 20:40 |
| ttx | ok | 20:40 |
| thingee | sdague: setup a cross-project meeting? | 20:40 |
| sdague | but the keystone team is pretty good with this so far | 20:41 |
| sdague | thingee: maybe?.... honestly, during Pike it's basically 100% keystone work | 20:41 |
| ttx | sdague: anything more on that ? | 20:41 |
| thingee | sdague: could've argued that with the servce catalog tng? | 20:41 |
| sdague | thingee: plan is here - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440815/4/specs/keystone/backlog/unified-limits.rst@193 | 20:42 |
| sdague | ttx: nope | 20:42 |
| ttx | * Moving "Split out tempest plugins" to Queens potential goals | 20:42 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/369749 | 20:42 |
| ttx | Rather than abandoning this one I'll bootstrap the Queens goal directory and then move this one to a Queens potential goal | 20:42 |
| ttx | unless someone objects... | 20:42 |
| ttx | #action ttx to set up Queens goal directory and move https://review.openstack.org/369749 to it | 20:42 |
| sdague | seems fine, would be good to have mtreinish around for conversation around it as there still seems to be some friction | 20:43 |
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| fungi | dims: with my ptl hat on, i don't know that a ptl-only ml is a great way to reach teams which are so out of the loop that their members ignore the more general discussion lists | 20:43 |
| EmilienM | ttx: to we want all sessions from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming recorded into http://forumtopics.openstack.org/ ? | 20:43 |
| ttx | will be a change on the governance repo anyway, so we'll rediscuss it | 20:43 |
| ttx | * Forum topics | 20:43 |
| jroll | fungi: ++ | 20:43 |
| ttx | EmilienM: yes we are now at the stage where we should formally propose the results of the brainstorming | 20:43 |
| ttx | The website is up at: | 20:43 |
| ttx | #link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/ | 20:44 |
| dims | fungi : problem is many folks complain later on (ex placement service) | 20:44 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'll do it | 20:44 |
| * fungi relies on other team members to point discussions out to him | 20:44 | |
| ttx | Looking at the TC brainstorming, we should convert that in a series of proposals, before the deadline on April 2 | 20:44 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming | 20:44 |
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| EmilienM | #action EmilienM to grab sessions from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming and propose them to http://forumtopics.openstack.org/ | 20:44 |
| ttx | Anything that you think wouldn't make a good proposal ? | 20:44 |
| ttx | Or should be merged before being proposed ? | 20:44 |
| sdague | ttx: what is the forum going to look like logistically? | 20:44 |
| jroll | I know nobody here runs that cheddar install, but as a note, it sends the launchpad auth over plain text :( | 20:44 |
| fungi | i think i know who runs that cheddar install | 20:45 |
| ttx | the "TC vision" one looks a bit fuzzy | 20:45 |
| fungi | jroll: you'll be happy to know that your actual auth happens between you and launchpad and is over https | 20:45 |
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| ttx | sdague: fishbowl setup, like cross-project sessiosn at old design summit | 20:45 |
| sdague | because I'm still a little confused on what kind of track / day structure is being attempted to be created, and I don't think I'm the only one confused | 20:45 |
| jroll | fungi: yeah, just the oauth token, idk how risky that is | 20:45 |
| fungi | jroll: but i agree, it's not great that cheddar asks for authorization over plain http | 20:46 |
| ttx | thingee: we have... 3 parallel rooms over 4 days ? | 20:46 |
| jroll | sdague: +1 | 20:46 |
| fungi | jroll: not terrible, but also not great, if that counts as an answer | 20:46 |
| ttx | sdague: I thought I sent an email about that | 20:46 |
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| jroll | fungi: :) | 20:46 |
| * ttx checks | 20:46 | |
| sdague | ttx: you might have | 20:46 |
| bauzas | should we propose project-specific sessions into forumtopics.o.o ? | 20:46 |
| * thingee checks too | 20:46 | |
| sdague | but it definitely doesn't feel like it sunk in | 20:46 |
| ttx | can't force people to read | 20:47 |
| sdague | and given that the answer isn't "just like last time" | 20:47 |
| sdague | it needs to be pretty heavily over communicated | 20:47 |
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| EmilienM | sdague: ++ | 20:47 |
| ttx | thingee and fifieldt are the contacts on the Foundation staff side. EmilienM and dhellmann on the TC side | 20:47 |
| fungi | from an infra team perspective, i got the impression we fit more as users/operators in the feedback spectrum and so should show up for sessions but not necessarily have coordinated things to propose there | 20:48 |
| ttx | sdague: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113459.html | 20:48 |
| thingee | ttx: verified three rooms | 20:49 |
| ttx | thingee: let's plan another thread around Forum specifically | 20:49 |
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| ttx | like repeat the deadline, the submission site, and the structure (4 days / 3 rooms / fishbowl) | 20:50 |
| sdague | and probably examples of sessions that were run during past summits that would be appropriate | 20:50 |
| jroll | ttx: "cross-community discussions" doesn't necessarily mean "cross-project", right? | 20:50 |
| jroll | and will these be 40 minute sessions, as usual? | 20:50 |
| sdague | I think right now there is a bunch of self censoring because no one is sure if their stuff is appropriate | 20:51 |
| ttx | jroll: the idea is to have discussions we can't have anywhere else because a part of our community is missing | 20:51 |
| ttx | sdague: EmilienM's original email gave examples | 20:51 |
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| jroll | ttx: I think that answers my question, thanks | 20:51 |
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| sdague | ttx: non of those were sessions that were proposed in past events right? Those were new whole cloth ideas. | 20:51 |
| ttx | jroll: we can have double-slot sessions where needed, so 40 or 90min I would say | 20:51 |
| jroll | perfect | 20:52 |
| ttx | but then I'm not on the selection committee :) | 20:52 |
| ttx | sdague: hmm, sounded like old sessions | 20:52 |
| ttx | with actualized names maybe | 20:52 |
| ttx | EmilienM: is it what you wanted to cover ? | 20:52 |
| sdague | ok, I missed barcelona, so maybe they were there | 20:52 |
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| EmilienM | ttx: yes, I'll work on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming this week and put something into cheddar | 20:53 |
| ttx | sdague: some session ideas were brand-new because the old format did not leave any room for them. Like Appdev-feedback oriented sessions | 20:53 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'll probably ask for reviews from TC team | 20:53 |
| ttx | EmilienM: the "TC vision" entry looks a bit fuzzy to me. You migt want to confirm before copying it over | 20:53 |
| EmilienM | ttx: noted. | 20:54 |
| ttx | * Vision exercise feedback | 20:54 |
| ttx | Two weeks ago after the Board+TC+UC meeting we started working on a TC vision | 20:54 |
| ttx | Anyone wants to say anything on that ? | 20:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | dims and I are working on getting a draft together to bring lots of etherpads into one | 20:54 |
| jroll | is there a rough timeline for the "rest of us" seeing the output of that? | 20:54 |
| mriedem | that's this thing right? http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/community-leadership-charts-course-openstack/ | 20:54 |
| ttx | mriedem: no | 20:54 |
| sdague | jroll: first week of April | 20:54 |
| jroll | cool, thanks sdague | 20:55 |
| sdague | that's the target for getting things into sharable state, so pretty soon | 20:55 |
| ttx | mriedem: on the day after that one we did go through an exercise to produce a draft of a vision for the TC itself | 20:55 |
| sdague | and with enough time for people to ponder pre Boston | 20:55 |
| jroll | yep :) | 20:55 |
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| ttx | mriedem: the article is about the Board+TC+UC meeting where we tackled strategic questions | 20:56 |
| fungi | the concern is that it's supposed to present a unified voice of the current tc, so distributing it in an incom,plete state risks implying opinions we don't all agree on | 20:56 |
| sdague | mriedem: it was similar, but this is a bit different. | 20:56 |
| jroll | fungi: yeah, I totally get it. just curious / excited to see it | 20:56 |
| fungi | jroll: me too! ;) | 20:57 |
| ttx | Goal is to have something to present before Bosto, definitely | 20:57 |
| * zaneb too :) | 20:57 | |
| jroll | ha | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Next week meeting | 20:57 |
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| ttx | I'll be traveling around meeting time next week, so I may not be around for the meeting | 20:57 |
| dims | so, this is a vision for the TC itself, not a technical direction for openstack :) | 20:57 |
| sdague | it is probably worth a write up of the process when the whole thing gets out there as well so we have a reference like the superuser article to explain how we got here | 20:57 |
| ttx | I may be having dinner with flaper87 instead | 20:57 |
| dims | zaneb : jroll : ^ | 20:57 |
| ttx | Any volunteer to chair the meeting ? I'll work on agenda and all | 20:57 |
| jroll | dims: indeed | 20:57 |
| sdague | dims: well, a bunch of it bleeds through :) | 20:57 |
| ttx | and might end up being present | 20:57 |
| fungi | dims: well, seems to me like a vision for the tc _and_ technical community we lead/represent | 20:57 |
| * thingee disappears as mai tai appears and plane is landing | 20:57 | |
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| ttx | thingee: good timing | 20:58 |
| fungi | dims: but not a vision for openstack the software | 20:58 |
| dims | fungi : sdague : tempering expectations :) | 20:58 |
| zaneb | dims: aware of that, but it's blocking the next thing, which is to have a technical vision of openstack | 20:58 |
| fungi | yeah, there is certainly overlap | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | ttx: \o/ | 20:58 |
| dims | ++ zaneb | 20:58 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I can try | 20:59 |
| ttx | volunteer for sharing next week meeting in case I'm too stuffed of currywurst to chair ? | 20:59 |
| ttx | EmilienM: thanks! | 20:59 |
| fungi | flaper87 and EmilienM can fight over it | 20:59 |
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| EmilienM | only if you're helping me :D | 20:59 |
| dims | here's a plug for zaneb's effort https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447031/ | 20:59 |
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| ttx | well flaper87 mighy have currywurst overdose as well | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | fungi: I'll pass this time, I want currywurst | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | :D | 21:00 |
| ttx | and we are out of time | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| fungi | flaper87: me too, but it probably doesn't ship well | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 21:00:28 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-21-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-21-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-21-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| ttx | flaper87: my hotel has a "currywurst package" | 21:00 |
| oneswig | Thanks ttx | 21:00 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'll make my best to be prepared | 21:00 |
| ttx | which means breakfast included and a currywurst. | 21:01 |
| fungi | that's downright frightening | 21:01 |
| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific_wg | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 21 21:01:13 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:01 |
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| oneswig | Alas, all this talk of currywurst has made me hungry | 21:01 |
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| oneswig | #chair martial_ | 21:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: martial_ oneswig | 21:01 |
| martial_ | hello stig | 21:01 |
| trandles | yeah...mid-afternoon doldrums have taken hold and currywurst isn't helping | 21:01 |
| oneswig | Greetings | 21:01 |
| martial_ | hi tim | 21:02 |
| rbudden | hello everyone | 21:02 |
| trandles | hell | 21:02 |
| trandles | +o | 21:02 |
| oneswig | #link OK here's an agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_March_21st_2017 | 21:02 |
| trandles | oops | 21:02 |
| oneswig | Good afternoon America :-) | 21:02 |
| oneswig | #topic WG round-up from Milan | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "WG round-up from Milan (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:03 | |
| oneswig | Was anybody else present or was it just me? | 21:03 |
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| martial_ | oneswig: nope sorry, not me | 21:03 |
| oneswig | ... in which case I'll do my best to share what I'd learned from a WG perspective | 21:03 |
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| flanders_ | Spill the goss ;) | 21:04 |
| Guest81586 | Hi there | 21:04 |
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| oneswig | First up, our hosts in Milan were excellent, just great | 21:04 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 21:04 |
| oneswig | hi y'all | 21:04 |
| oneswig | There was one discussion which may require a little follow up | 21:04 |
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| oneswig | The team at OSIC were looking for test case workloads for testing live migration | 21:05 |
| oneswig | And they didn't have anything representative for science. | 21:05 |
| Guest81586 | Do you have more details? | 21:05 |
| oneswig | I am not sure of the finer details. Unfortunately the guy I spoke to is on vacation this week. | 21:06 |
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| b1airo | hello! | 21:06 |
| oneswig | I believe what they want is a heat stack (or equivalent) that deploys some busy busy workload that runs for long enough for them to experiment with migrating | 21:06 |
| oneswig | And at the end, a yes/no pass fail | 21:06 |
| oneswig | Hi b1airo! | 21:06 |
| oneswig | #chair b1airo | 21:06 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo martial_ oneswig | 21:06 |
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| oneswig | #link might be further details here (but I don't recall it) https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MIL-ops-live-migration | 21:07 |
| martial_ | oneswig: any use of ansible in that model? | 21:07 |
| oneswig | martial_: I'd have thought that's a good fit. Create a long-ish running workload - easy thing to initiate the infrastructure for that with ansible | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | So... how are we all doing with our cloud-native deployment of science workloads ... ? | 21:08 |
| oneswig | yes it's on my list too | 21:08 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, if i wanted cloud native i'd go to azure | 21:09 |
| martial_ | oneswig: related to ansible, they just posted their videos from their recent meet in DC, see: https://www.ansible.com/videos-ansible-automates-2017 | 21:10 |
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| oneswig | Interesting you'd say that. From what I've heard recently Oracle bare metal's the new king of the hill | 21:10 |
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| b1airo | i took "cloud-native" to be more about application architecture... | 21:11 |
| mrhillsman | oneswig izaak can speak more to the workload when he gets back | 21:11 |
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| mrhillsman | in particular the framework | 21:11 |
| oneswig | Hi mrhillsman, thanks for dropping in! | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | mrhillsman: can you give examples of other test cases you're working with? | 21:12 |
| Guest81586 | Oneswig: are you planning a dinner event like in Barcelona? | 21:12 |
| oneswig | b1airo: I was thinking of the packaged deployment, cluster-as-a-service creation etc. | 21:12 |
| mrhillsman | we defined the workloads ourselves to get the framework to a "v1" status | 21:12 |
| mrhillsman | details can be found here - https://github.com/osic/ops-workload-framework | 21:13 |
| oneswig | Guest81586: would very much like to - Boston coming up on the agenda | 21:13 |
| mrhillsman | izaakk has more detail than me however | 21:13 |
| mrhillsman | hopefully the readme sheds some light for you in prep for that meeting when he gets back | 21:14 |
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| oneswig | mrhillsman: how would you like people to contribute - pull requests? | 21:15 |
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| b1airo | i'm confused by the VM types described in that readme | 21:16 |
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| b1airo | "Large VM ( CPU: 6, RAM: 4g, Disk: 6g)" - doesn't seem particularly large? | 21:17 |
| oneswig | b1airo: I wonder if it's large for something that can be live-migrated? | 21:18 |
| b1airo | hmm not in our experience | 21:18 |
| Guest81586 | Maybe it's european | 21:18 |
| b1airo | lol | 21:18 |
| oneswig | Are you doing live migration with NUMA passthrough - does that work? | 21:19 |
| oneswig | Guest81586: European VMs, compact and bijoux... | 21:19 |
| b1airo | oneswig, no we're not, though i believe it is supposed to work if the destination can meet the topology requirements, however in our case we are also doing SRIOV VF passthrough so live-migration is out due to that | 21:20 |
| b1airo | also this sounds odd: "Spans 60 disk workers that fills up the disk by creating 1 gb blocks of data." | 21:20 |
| b1airo | in the context of a VM with on 6G of disk how is that supposed to work...? | 21:21 |
| b1airo | s/on/only/ | 21:21 |
| martial_ | (looking at the agenda, I think we will need to move to the next topic soon, even if we come back to this one later if time permits) | 21:21 |
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| b1airo | mrhillsman, i must be misunderstanding something? ^^^ | 21:21 |
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| mrhillsman | i think there will be a discussion with izaakk about the ask | 21:21 |
| oneswig | martial_: thanks, good prompt. I think we'll need to follow up with izaakk and mrhillsman | 21:22 |
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| mrhillsman | i do not have detail unfortunately but hopefully looking at the repo gives you some context rather than having to wait a week to get the same info | 21:22 |
| mrhillsman | it is a good starting point | 21:22 |
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| martial_ | mrhillsman: thanks :) | 21:22 |
| mrhillsman | stepped away, apologies | 21:23 |
| mrhillsman | the sizes are related to the defaults | 21:23 |
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| martial_ | #topic Boston Summit Forum - contribution to discussion | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Boston Summit Forum - contribution to discussion (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:23 | |
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| mrhillsman | hope in discussion with different stakeholders is that things will change based on need | 21:23 |
| martial_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-UC-brainstorming-scientific-wg | 21:24 |
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| martial_ | so the link for the brainstorming etherpad is above | 21:24 |
| oneswig | Thanks martial_ - so the activity on the list indicates it's time to collect these diverse thoughts together | 21:24 |
| oneswig | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2017-March/001856.html | 21:25 |
| martial_ | yes, I wanted to try to go from the etherpad to a list of topic to be discussed and a list of people assigned to those topics | 21:25 |
| martial_ | I could not find the 1-to-1 match from the etherpad history | 21:25 |
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| martial_ | I figure we ought to have a person working on each topic present this discussion | 21:26 |
| martial_ | what do you think? | 21:27 |
| martial_ | (in a way that was my question to flanders_ yesterday) | 21:27 |
| oneswig | Seems like a good idea to find advocates for each | 21:27 |
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| b1airo | recall the original instructions were to include a leader for each | 21:27 |
| flanders_ | +1 | 21:28 |
| trandles | "Please add contact information next to your topic, so we can contact you for formal "forum" session posting. Thank you" | 21:28 |
| oneswig | flanders_: Can people participate in this stage who will not be present at the forum? | 21:29 |
| flanders_ | And have that leader identify which upstream contributors to invite, who can act as advocates for actions arising from forum sessions. | 21:29 |
| martial_ | trandles: yes, I added this earlier today | 21:29 |
| flanders_ | oneswig: not sure, would post that Q publucally on UC ML | 21:30 |
| b1airo | oneswig, can't see why not - at least half the effort is just in getting it organised | 21:30 |
| martial_ | looking at the history, I think "Supporting Pre-emptible instances" is "Adam Huffman" | 21:30 |
| oneswig | OK I can take a couple of these up provisionally | 21:30 |
| flanders_ | b1airo: +1 but would be great for other WGs to understand this. | 21:31 |
| oneswig | martial_: equally likely that aloga_ would advocate it | 21:31 |
| oneswig | Can we pick up tasks using #action? | 21:31 |
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| Guest81586 | I got to go now but I'll check the meeting log for details on any Boston event | 21:32 |
| oneswig | OK thanks Guest81586 | 21:32 |
| b1airo | i am guessing Tim is still happy to take "Quota management pain points, workarounds, cross-project needs" | 21:32 |
| martial_ | Maybe we ought to email the SWG ML with the link to the etherpad to try to determine our "champions" | 21:33 |
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| martial_ | because reading the pad/history I am not sure who to contact directly mostly | 21:33 |
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| oneswig | martial_: agreed, it's not a reliable method | 21:34 |
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| martial_ | okay, I will send an email to the scientific wg with this request post our meeting | 21:35 |
| martial_ | this ought to help us concretize a list of topics | 21:36 |
| oneswig | Thanks martial_ | 21:36 |
| martial_ | April 2nd is coming fast after all :) | 21:36 |
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| martial_ | I have not seen must additional discussion on the Cloud Declaration | 21:37 |
| martial_ | (must -> much) | 21:37 |
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| martial_ | #topic Other Boston Summit planning | 21:38 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Other Boston Summit planning (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:38 | |
| oneswig | In general the lightning talks format of the BoF seemed popular. | 21:39 |
| oneswig | Any thoughts on that? | 21:39 |
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| martial_ | oneswig: seems feasible, although if the foundation is taking care of hte schedule it might be good to ask people how long they expect to discuss a topic for? | 21:40 |
| martial_ | (sure there are the after summit hours :) ) | 21:40 |
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| oneswig | martial_: the guillotine on overrunning talks? | 21:41 |
| martial_ | oneswig: my worry exactly :) | 21:41 |
| martial_ | flanders_: any opinion on this topic? | 21:41 |
| oneswig | Surely easy enough to enforce | 21:42 |
| martial_ | oneswig: the question is are those going to be during the SWG discussions? | 21:42 |
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| oneswig | I haven't had confirmation but my understanding is we have a meeting session and a BoF session. | 21:43 |
| martial_ | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/call-for-presentations/preview/17698 Scientific Working Group planning meeting | 21:43 |
| oneswig | This would be the Bof | 21:43 |
| b1airo | i think judging from feedback on how we ran things in barcelona people wanted more time for discussion | 21:43 |
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| martial_ | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/call-for-presentations/preview/17699 Scientific OpenStack BoF | 21:44 |
| b1airo | they liked the lightening talks, but there was a general feeling we need more time in the planning session | 21:44 |
| martial_ | b1airo: and a bigger room :) | 21:44 |
| b1airo | that also | 21:44 |
| oneswig | my bad - thought a 100-person meeting was best avoided! :-) | 21:45 |
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| martial_ | oneswig: many scientists :) | 21:45 |
| b1airo | actually i didn't mind, makes it easier to hear people and others are more likely to shutup and listen :-) | 21:46 |
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| martial_ | okay, so no consensus on this at this point | 21:47 |
| martial_ | we can open this for question to the champions | 21:47 |
| oneswig | martial_: no I think a bigger room for the WG meeting makes more sense | 21:47 |
| martial_ | I can add it to the email (format + time needed) | 21:47 |
| martial_ | I think there was also a question about a dinner for the SWG? any plans at this point? | 21:48 |
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| b1airo | "Martial Michel: To be extended." | 21:48 |
| martial_ | trandles: you were involved in this discussion, I remember | 21:49 |
| oneswig | I'm looking for a volunteer on the ground for the evening social | 21:49 |
| trandles | martial_: which discussion? dinner? | 21:49 |
| martial_ | do we have a boston local? | 21:49 |
| martial_ | trandles: yes, was I incorrect? | 21:49 |
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| trandles | I passed along info that a Boston-local friend provided me | 21:49 |
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| martial_ | I remember, thanks Tim | 21:50 |
| b1airo | though you won't actually be there trandles ? | 21:50 |
| trandles | yeah, I'll be there | 21:50 |
| trandles | I get the feeling that I'm being volunteered :P | 21:50 |
| b1airo | ah ok great | 21:50 |
| b1airo | it is feeling that way isn't it... weird | 21:50 |
| flanders_ | Volontold ;p | 21:50 |
| trandles | lol | 21:50 |
| trandles | yeah | 21:50 |
| martial_ | trandles: not really, just asking politely :) | 21:50 |
| trandles | I'll submit | 21:50 |
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| b1airo | awesome! i love it when oneswig doesn't have to do everything | 21:51 |
| martial_ | b1airo: stig is not going to be there either sadly | 21:51 |
| oneswig | I'm pretty pleased with that - great work all | 21:51 |
| oneswig | :-) | 21:51 |
| trandles | oneswig: if you have any likely sponsors for me to hit up... | 21:52 |
| martial_ | look at that, one topic, 10 minutes :) | 21:52 |
| oneswig | trandles: I am sure, we can work that. | 21:52 |
| b1airo | no, some nonsense about a child's birthday - my own family are guilting me about being away for my birthday | 21:52 |
| oneswig | it was my birthday in Barca ... | 21:52 |
| jmlowe | didn't keep me from the Austin summit | 21:52 |
| hogepodge | With time running out, can I have the floor for the last topic? | 21:52 |
| oneswig | take it away hogepodge | 21:53 |
| b1airo | please hogepodge..? | 21:53 |
| martial_ | oneswig: mine as well :) | 21:53 |
| martial_ | #topic Future Online Analysis Platform Workshop | 21:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Future Online Analysis Platform Workshop (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:53 | |
| hogepodge | In a couple of weeks I'm going to a workshop to talk about OpenStack and scientific computing | 21:53 |
| hogepodge | I have a 30 minute talk, and I'm hoping to incorporate examples from existing systems. | 21:53 |
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| b1airo | is that the future platform thing Kate Keahey was looking for someone to attend? | 21:54 |
| hogepodge | Yes. | 21:54 |
| jmlowe | I have a quick question, any chance anybody will be at the HPC Advisory council meeting in Lugano next month? | 21:54 |
| b1airo | cool, looking for slideware etc? | 21:54 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: see you there/ | 21:54 |
| hogepodge | I was hoping that members of the WG could forward me some talks or slides they've given that I could incorporate into my talk | 21:54 |
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| hogepodge | yes :-D | 21:54 |
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| jmlowe | oneswig: excellent | 21:54 |
| hogepodge | you can send it to chris at openstack.org | 21:54 |
| jmlowe | hogepodge: we have a pile of stuff for our roadshow | 21:55 |
| oneswig | hogepodge: I'll see what I've got that might help. | 21:55 |
| martial_ | should we crowdsource the ML as well ? | 21:55 |
| hogepodge | some background on the event: "developing capabilities that would help us transform HPC resources to be more usable to experimental communities running analytics rather than simulation codes " | 21:55 |
| b1airo | hogepodge, sure will share a deck or two and you can just ping me any questions | 21:55 |
| rbudden | hogepodge: i can deliver some slides as well | 21:55 |
| hogepodge | " those researchers need more on-demand access and more data management capabilities than the traditional data centers allow. The attendees will be primarily people designing various elements of these solutions — plus a panel of application scientists." | 21:55 |
| hogepodge | fantastic, thank you everyone! | 21:55 |
| hogepodge | I'm going to be in Berlin the week before the event, so I'm trying to get the slides put together this week. | 21:56 |
| oneswig | Tough crowd hogepodge | 21:56 |
| b1airo | hogepodge, so basically sounds like they are saying, "we want IOPS oriented filesystems now please" ...? | 21:56 |
| martial_ | :) | 21:56 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: is that on our etherpad yet? | 21:56 |
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| jmlowe | hogepodge: going to pitch openstack extras for scientific clouds at Lugano a few days later | 21:56 |
| flanders_ | Serverless compute and frictionless data for everyone! | 21:56 |
| b1airo | oneswig, which? | 21:57 |
| hogepodge | oneswig: b1airo: et. al. I'm also interested in any advice on how to communicate to the audience | 21:57 |
| oneswig | b1airo: forum topics... | 21:57 |
| hogepodge | That's it for me. thanks everyone! | 21:57 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: me too - don't steal the show :-) | 21:57 |
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| martial_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-UC-brainstorming-scientific-wg | 21:57 |
| b1airo | oneswig, are you referring to my IOPS comment or the general topic? | 21:57 |
| b1airo | anyone planning to attend ISC ? | 21:58 |
| jmlowe | oneswig: no worries, I barely get by on my public speaking abilities | 21:58 |
| oneswig | b1airo: iops. I made a comparison between bare metal RBD and virtualised Cinder a couple of weeks ago. ouch | 21:58 |
| hogepodge | (I'll be taking copies of the book too, so that work will also be represented) | 21:58 |
| martial_ | hogepodge: great thanks | 21:58 |
| oneswig | b1airo: no plans as yet for ISC. | 21:58 |
| martial_ | hogepodge: I owe you this conversation for DockerCon as well | 21:58 |
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| b1airo | or the HPC Knowledge Meeting (http://www.hpckp.org/) ? | 21:58 |
| oneswig | hogepodge: you have more copies? Can I get ~50? | 21:59 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, sounds fun - what was the virtualised backend ? | 21:59 |
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| hogepodge | I ordered for dockercon | 21:59 |
| oneswig | ceph | 21:59 |
| martial_ | hogepodge: see you there then | 21:59 |
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| b1airo | so basically, baremetal ceph versus virtual ceph? | 22:00 |
| hogepodge | 100 copies | 22:00 |
| oneswig | hogepodge: let me know if you have more - conference is iirc 10-12 april | 22:00 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: correct - quite different (as you might expect) | 22:00 |
| oneswig | Ah, times up | 22:00 |
| b1airo | interesting thing to figure out tuning for though | 22:01 |
| hogepodge | oneswig: yeah, we'll have 100 copies available | 22:01 |
| martial_ | hogepodge: seems reasonable. Dcon will be big, so we just have to make sure not everybody walks away with a copy right away, otherwise you will be done in minutes | 22:01 |
| oneswig | going... going... | 22:01 |
| oneswig | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 22:01:36 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-03-21-21.01.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-03-21-21.01.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-03-21-21.01.log.html | 22:01 |
| trandles | o/ later folks | 22:01 |
| hogepodge | martial_: see you there! | 22:01 |
| oneswig | thanks all! | 22:01 |
| b1airo | hogepodge, oneswig - make them work for it, like openstack t-shirts | 22:01 |
| oneswig | b1airo: each will be won with blood sweat and tears... | 22:02 |
| rbudden | thanks! | 22:02 |
| rbudden | ttyl later | 22:03 |
| martial_ | good meeting :) I will email our ML to see who can help "champions" tasks/topics | 22:03 |
| oneswig | keep it up everyone! :-) | 22:03 |
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| martial_ | bye all | 22:03 |
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