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| ekcs | time for congressteammeeting. ramineni_ aimeeu | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ekcs | #startmeeting congressteammeeting | 00:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 16 00:00:44 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ekcs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 00:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 00:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 00:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 00:00 |
| ramineni_ | Hi | 00:01 |
| ekcs | hi all! | 00:01 |
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| ekcs | thinrichs and masahito are not going to be here this week. And it doesn’t seem like we have a lot to talk about. So probably will be a short meeting. or just extra time for topics we don’t normally get to spend as much time on. | 00:01 |
| ekcs | here are the topics we have put down for today. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/congress-meeting-topics | 00:02 |
| ekcs | feel free to add. | 00:02 |
| ekcs | ok then. | 00:05 |
| ekcs | #topic policy library | 00:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "policy library (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 00:05 | |
| ekcs | We’ve been adding policies to this google doc. #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/12f1VciulhT9yCYOc7jiulGiLT-tFpffLxNOpr-2QX2I/edit#heading=h.p2doj1gyu2x7 | 00:06 |
| ekcs | I added a couple policies similar to AWS. | 00:06 |
| ekcs | Not much to say about it right now. Seems like we have at least a few generally useful policies. so that’s good news for the policy library. | 00:07 |
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| ekcs | One thing I noticed is that our cinder driver is missing some useful information about attachements and encryption. At some point I may need to take a look on how/whether we can add them. | 00:08 |
| ekcs | so support this kind of policy. https://docs.google.com/document/d/12f1VciulhT9yCYOc7jiulGiLT-tFpffLxNOpr-2QX2I/edit#heading=h.17037zo2vy3t | 00:08 |
| ekcs | anything else? =) | 00:09 |
| ramineni_ | That info is available in cinder v2 | 00:10 |
| ramineni_ | ? | 00:10 |
| ekcs | you mean from the client? | 00:10 |
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| ramineni_ | Ya | 00:10 |
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| ekcs | I’m not totally sure. the info is available in horizon under volumes. | 00:11 |
| ekcs | so right the next logical step is to see how it’s obtained from client/api | 00:11 |
| ekcs | how do you usually go about finding out something like that? source code? | 00:12 |
| ramineni_ | Oohk ..Ya ..May be u can raise bug for it ..So that we don't forget to look into it later ? | 00:12 |
| ramineni_ | Ya . Or API guide | 00:12 |
| ekcs | ok. | 00:13 |
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| ekcs | thanks. | 00:13 |
| ekcs | ok then let’s move on. | 00:14 |
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| ekcs | #topic pike tasks | 00:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike tasks (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 00:15 | |
| ekcs | Some Pike tasks created here based on PTG discussions. https://bugs.launchpad.net/congress/+bugs?field.tag=pike-goal | 00:16 |
| ekcs | I don’t have anything in particular to talk about. But we have some time for that. | 00:16 |
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| ekcs | ok moving on then =) | 00:18 |
| ramineni_ | If we were to add violation s panel in UI .. | 00:18 |
| ekcs | oh ok. | 00:18 |
| ekcs | uh huh? | 00:18 |
| ramineni_ | Did we agree to list only error s table | 00:18 |
| ramineni_ | ? | 00:19 |
| ekcs | I don’t think we decided on it. but that’s one option discussed. involving probably the least changes. | 00:19 |
| ekcs | otherwise we need some way of designating a table as “violation” | 00:20 |
| ramineni_ | Ok .. ya | 00:20 |
| ekcs | I personally think error or another reserved table name is a good first step for pike. but we didn’t exactly make a decision. | 00:20 |
| ramineni_ | Ya .. May be I will add the topic for next week .. we could discuss more on this when everyone available | 00:21 |
| ekcs | other options: maybe each policy can have a metadata on which tables are violations. maybe we can just have modal rules that designate tables as violations. like violation[unsecured_vm] :- | 00:22 |
| ekcs | or something. ok that’s a good idea. | 00:22 |
| ekcs | btw I see that you have a couple patches for UI changes. thanks for jumping on that. | 00:22 |
| ekcs | how familiar are you with django? | 00:23 |
| ramineni_ | Thanks | 00:23 |
| ramineni_ | Learning :) | 00:23 |
| aimeeu | Hi ekcs and ramineni_ - joined late and am on mobile. | 00:24 |
| ekcs | hi aimeeu ! | 00:24 |
| ramineni_ | Ekcs : may be if you have some time .. you can test it out and let me know on the changes if they look good | 00:25 |
| ramineni_ | Hi aimeeu | 00:25 |
| ekcs | ramineni_: haha ok. one reason I’m asking is thinking whether I should prioritize learning django for violations pane. or prioritize other tasks. | 00:25 |
| ekcs | ramineni_: yup i’m setting up to test drive the changes. | 00:25 |
| ekcs | ok then. anything else on pike tasks? | 00:26 |
| ramineni_ | Ok :) thanks | 00:26 |
| ekcs | #action ekcs register task on cinder driver data: encryption, attachments | 00:27 |
| ekcs | ok then. | 00:27 |
| ekcs | #topic open discussion | 00:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 00:27 | |
| ekcs | not usre we have anything. but I’ll give us a couple minutes to see if there’s anything else we want to talk about. | 00:28 |
| aimeeu | Nothing from me other than now that the OPNFV release is done, I plan to start on my Congress stuff | 00:28 |
| ekcs | aimeeu: awesomeness on opnfv. | 00:29 |
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| aimeeu | :) | 00:29 |
| ekcs | one quick question, does the project pull congress from stable branch or from some packaged release? | 00:29 |
| aimeeu | Stable branch | 00:30 |
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| aimeeu | In this release, Newton | 00:30 |
| ekcs | ok great. so not too affected by update releases. thanks. we did just release an update to newton. | 00:30 |
| ekcs | but that doesn’t affect opnfv then. | 00:31 |
| ekcs | ok then. let’s wrap up for the day? | 00:32 |
| aimeeu | Sounds good | 00:32 |
| ramineni_ | Yes .. Nothing from my side | 00:33 |
| ekcs | alright then! have a great week ramineni_, aimeeu ! | 00:33 |
| ekcs | see you next week. | 00:33 |
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| ekcs | #endmeeting | 00:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 00:33 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 16 00:33:33 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 00:33 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2017/congressteammeeting.2017-03-16-00.00.html | 00:33 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2017/congressteammeeting.2017-03-16-00.00.txt | 00:33 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2017/congressteammeeting.2017-03-16-00.00.log.html | 00:33 |
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| ianychoi | hi | 13:00 |
| jftalta | hi | 13:00 |
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| jpich | hello | 13:01 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, :) | 13:01 |
| amotoki | hi | 13:01 |
| -amotoki- already has beers | 13:01 | |
| ianychoi | jpich, amotoki hi! | 13:01 |
| ianychoi | wow beer! | 13:02 |
| ianychoi | let me have 5 mins please | 13:02 |
| ianychoi | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 13:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 16 13:05:47 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ianychoi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 13:05 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, jpich, amotoki: sorry for late start | 13:06 |
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| ianychoi | Todays it seems that there are 4 members | 13:06 |
| ianychoi | #topic Boston Summit & Forum schedule is now available | 13:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Boston Summit & Forum schedule is now available (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:06 | |
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| ianychoi | jpich, amotoki, jftalta : will you come to Boston Summit? | 13:07 |
| jpich | No | 13:07 |
| ianychoi | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/#day=2017-05-08 | 13:07 |
| ianychoi | Schedule is now available | 13:07 |
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| amotoki | ianychoi: hope so. my sessions was accepted. | 13:07 |
| amotoki | sessions -> session | 13:07 |
| ianychoi | jpich, I understand since you attended to PTG | 13:07 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, oh congratulation! | 13:07 |
| jpich | Congrats, amotoki :) | 13:07 |
| amotoki | thanks. no related to i18n though | 13:08 |
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| jftalta | I will. I've got my pass, flight tickets and accomodation :) | 13:08 |
| ianychoi | I am now arranging with Foundation for discounts of language coordinators | 13:08 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, wow congrats! | 13:08 |
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| ianychoi | I hope that more language coordinators will come to Boston Summit. | 13:08 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, fine :) | 13:09 |
| ianychoi | I accepted two presentations - one is for I18n and the other is for Korea user group | 13:09 |
| ianychoi | So I definitely go to Boston Summit | 13:09 |
| ianychoi | And.. in my opinion, Boston Summit is very welcome for translators | 13:10 |
| jftalta | thanks to the presentation, we've got free pass | 13:10 |
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| ianychoi | jftalta, yep, and also I am now arranging something more with Foundation. I will let you (language coordinators) know in details soon (hopefully) | 13:10 |
| jftalta | ok | 13:10 |
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| ianychoi | #topic Zanata upgrade status | 13:11 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Zanata upgrade status (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:11 | |
| ianychoi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2017-03-15.log.html#t2017-03-15T20:12:47 | 13:11 |
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| ianychoi | I talked with Clark Boylan - Infra team and the team wants to delete the old production (Zanata 3.7.3) if current Zanata 3.9 production works fine. | 13:11 |
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| ianychoi | About 15 hours ago, there were openstackid problem - but it was not related to Zanata and it quickly recovered | 13:12 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, jpich: how do you feel new Zanata (3.9)? | 13:12 |
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| jftalta | I checked it out and it seems to work fine for me. Embedded glossary is very convenient :) | 13:13 |
| jpich | I'm embarrassed to say I don't see much difference from my side, so it looks good to me :-) | 13:13 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, have you experienced new Zanata? | 13:14 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: a bit :) Honestly I am not sure what are changed though | 13:14 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, haha if you have the similar experience, I think deleting old production instance would be fine | 13:15 |
| amotoki | +1 for deleting the old one | 13:16 |
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| ianychoi | jpich, jftalta: Then I will tell infra team that I18n team is ready for deleting the old production instance | 13:16 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, thanks | 13:16 |
| jftalta | #link http://docs.zanata.org/en/latest/release-notes/#new-feature | 13:16 |
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| jftalta | ianychoi, update of the glossary implies submitting a I18n patch, right ? | 13:18 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, right and it was done :) | 13:18 |
| ianychoi | I am waiting for replies.. :) | 13:19 |
| jftalta | ok | 13:19 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, thanks | 13:19 |
| amotoki | I see a new field "description" in glossary. | 13:19 |
| amotoki | we may need to discuss the glossary format in the i18n repo a bit later. | 13:19 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, +1 | 13:20 |
| jftalta | +1 | 13:20 |
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| ianychoi | #topic Finalizing Pike translation goal & priorities | 13:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finalizing Pike translation goal & priorities (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:21 | |
| ianychoi | I would like to finalize the priority shared on the last week | 13:21 |
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| ianychoi | One thing I am worried about now is that there weren't lots of feedback from translation goal & priorities | 13:22 |
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| ianychoi | That's why I originally wanted to determine translation goal & priorities during Forum - but I agree that deciding this during initial phase of entire release period is better as an official team | 13:23 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, amotoki: any concern for finalizing the translation goal & priority? | 13:23 |
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| jftalta | none for me | 13:24 |
| amotoki | I am okay to set the initial priority now. | 13:24 |
| jftalta | ianychoi: oh, not sure I understood your question well ... | 13:25 |
| amotoki | It might be better to add some note to Zanata top page that any feedback on priority is always welcome and/or it will be discussed in the Forum in Boston summit. | 13:25 |
| amotoki | just an idea. | 13:25 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, what I meant is a few people responded to the plan & priority | 13:26 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, good idea - thanks | 13:26 |
| jftalta | ianychoi: I was talking about question "any concern for finalizing..." | 13:27 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, just I want to ask opinions on finalizing the plan & priority | 13:27 |
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| jftalta | ok | 13:28 |
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| ianychoi | #action ianychoi will update the translation plan & priority discussed on translate.o.o dashboard | 13:28 |
| ianychoi | #topic Thoughts on ATC criteria | 13:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Thoughts on ATC criteria (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:28 | |
| ianychoi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437188/1/doc/source/official_translator.rst | 13:29 |
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| ianychoi | I think it might be a little bit trivial but I want to make sure what I18n made the criteria of ATC for translators | 13:29 |
| ianychoi | Let's suppose that | 13:30 |
| ianychoi | Case 1: one translator "translate"d 150 words and "review"ed 150 words | 13:30 |
| ianychoi | Case 2: the other translator "translate"d 150 words and "review"ed 151 words | 13:30 |
| ianychoi | Case 3: the third translator "translate"d 0 words but "review"ed 301 words | 13:31 |
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| ianychoi | IMO only 3 is valid for ATC status because we regard "300 words" contribution for one aspect as a commit | 13:32 |
| ianychoi | jftalta, amotoki: what do you think about it? | 13:32 |
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| jftalta | from a technical/logical point of view, you are right. But from the contributor's point of view, it's unfair. | 13:33 |
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| ianychoi | jpich, can I ask your opinion on three cases? | 13:34 |
| jpich | ianychoi: I'd tend to agree with jftalta's opinion, I don't know about the technical limitations but these 3 people sound to me like they should get ATC status :) | 13:35 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, your thoughts? | 13:36 |
| -amotoki- was not in front of PC a while | 13:37 | |
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| ianychoi | jftalta, jpich: yes. the calculation and considering is possible | 13:37 |
| amotoki | all three sounds good. | 13:37 |
| ianychoi | Okay :) | 13:37 |
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| ianychoi | Let's regard all three cases as ATCs in I18n team! | 13:38 |
| amotoki | one thing to note | 13:38 |
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| jpich | :) | 13:38 |
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| ianychoi | Correction: ATCs in OpenStack, and APCs in I18n team | 13:38 |
| amotoki | generally speaking, reviewing tends to be easier than transaltion. | 13:38 |
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| amotoki | if we have good transaltions, we can review easily :) | 13:38 |
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| amotoki | but perhaps most reviewers review more from what I checked | 13:39 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, oh really? I have not observed with such perspective | 13:39 |
| jpich | ianychoi: What is the acronym meaning? (Sorry!) | 13:40 |
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| amotoki | APC means Active Project (Program?) Contributor | 13:40 |
| ianychoi | jpich, ATC is Active Technical Contributor and APC is Active Project Contributor :) That's prertty fine | 13:40 |
| jpich | Ah, P for Project! Ok :) | 13:40 |
| ianychoi | I did not know them exactly about 2 years ago | 13:40 |
| amotoki | APC has a right to vote for PTL of a corespoding project. | 13:41 |
| jpich | Very good | 13:41 |
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| ianychoi | For review metric, then the possible idea would be 300 words for translations and/or 600 words for reviews by weighting to 1/2 for review contribution | 13:41 |
| ianychoi | For example, 150 words translation + 200 reviews => No, since 150 + 2/200 = 250 | 13:42 |
| ianychoi | But 150 words translation + 300 reviews => Yes, since 150 + 2/300 = 300 | 13:42 |
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| amotoki | i might be wrong, but when I tested zanata_users.py I got a bit bigger number of review words. | 13:42 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, hmm... then let me check it | 13:43 |
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| ianychoi | Let's discuss this later | 13:43 |
| amotoki | but it might be confusing..... I think we can start with 1:1 weight for translations and reviews | 13:43 |
| jpich | Another thought is that it might get complicated to explain the system. Wasn't one of the goals to encourage more reviews? Maybe valuing them the same (same weight) as a translation would help | 13:43 |
| ianychoi | We have sufficient time to determine https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437188/1/doc/source/official_translator.rst | 13:43 |
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| jftalta | jpich: +1 | 13:44 |
| ianychoi | jpich, thanks for your thought | 13:44 |
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| ianychoi | #action ianychoi will observe translation & review stats and see which metric have higher counts | 13:44 |
| ianychoi | Let's move on the next topic | 13:44 |
| ianychoi | #topic Release note translation criteria | 13:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release note translation criteria (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:45 | |
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| ianychoi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-i18n/2017-March/002822.html | 13:45 |
| ianychoi | I am +1 for amotoki's suggestion | 13:45 |
| ianychoi | And, sorry for amotoki: I think I delayed it too much | 13:45 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: np | 13:45 |
| amotoki | personally I am a reader of English version :) | 13:46 |
| jftalta | so am I | 13:47 |
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| ianychoi | I respect rsimai's opinion but for me the value of more publication to translated versions for new release notes is higher than a little bit embarassment with the mix of English and translated language | 13:47 |
| ianychoi | To more enhance it, we need more volunteer who would like to investigate on how to improve | 13:48 |
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| ianychoi | For me I have more priority in Stackalytics part during Pike cycle and hope that I will see this after Pike cycle if there is no volunteer | 13:49 |
| amotoki | my opinion is totally same as ianychoi. | 13:49 |
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| ianychoi | Okay, then let's go forward with amotoki's idea with release note criteria | 13:50 |
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| jftalta | ok | 13:50 |
| ianychoi | #topic Translation checksite using OpenStackAnsible | 13:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Translation checksite using OpenStackAnsible (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:50 | |
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| ianychoi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440825/ | 13:50 |
| ianychoi | I asked reviews to OpenStackAnsible team and Andy (PTL) did his first review on that | 13:51 |
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| ianychoi | eumel8 said that he would respond it by this week. | 13:51 |
| ianychoi | Note that this is another goal of I18n team during Pike cycle | 13:51 |
| ianychoi | #topic Log translation discussion | 13:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Log translation discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:51 | |
| ianychoi | amotoki, again thanks a lot for your kind input into openstack-operators | 13:52 |
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| ianychoi | I sent a message to Torii-san today afternoon | 13:52 |
| ianychoi | I also sent a message to an ambassador in Chinese team | 13:52 |
| ianychoi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-March/012946.html | 13:53 |
| ianychoi | Hope that Chinese team will respond in openstack-operators mailing list | 13:53 |
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| amotoki | I saw the forwarded mail in openstack jp team. no one seem to need translations so far. | 13:53 |
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| ianychoi | Also, I sent an e-mail to IBM people and they said that they are discussing and they will respond by this week | 13:53 |
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| amotoki | I asked some operators in jp-ops Slack channel and got the same responses. | 13:53 |
| ianychoi | Matt - Nova PTL suggested me to also ask to Product Working Group. | 13:54 |
| ianychoi | I actually do not know Product Working Group too much, but would be a good idea to also ask to Product Working Group? | 13:54 |
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| jftalta | I agree with eumel8. imo, it's not a topic... | 13:55 |
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| amotoki | Product WG mainly focuses on gathering what we want and input them to developer side. | 13:55 |
| ianychoi | eumul8: "- Log translation discussion. The message is clear: nobody wants logfile translation instead unique identifier. Let's skip the logs and focus on the real important things! " => That was Frank's message what he shared with me and jftalta | 13:55 |
| jftalta | yes, that's what I meant | 13:56 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, hmm it seems that their feedback would be also important. Yep more asking & discussion is good I think. I will also ask Product WG soon | 13:56 |
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| ianychoi | But still personally, removing one functionality for translation is sad | 13:57 |
| amotoki | sad :) | 13:57 |
| amotoki | sad ? | 13:57 |
| ianychoi | However, if nobody uses it, then removing would be nice | 13:57 |
| ianychoi | The decision would be un-recoverable | 13:57 |
| amotoki | let's translate it if we feel it useful :) | 13:57 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, +1 :) | 13:58 |
| ianychoi | This is why I want to more ask with more side and Doug - prev Release Mgmt. PTL would think in the similar way | 13:58 |
| ianychoi | #topic Open discussions | 13:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussions (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:58 | |
| amotoki | before we close the meeting, let me share one bug on stackalytics: bug 1669768 | 13:59 |
| openstack | bug 1669768 in openstack i18n ""language" filter does not work" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1669768 | 13:59 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, yep that's what I want to fix it | 13:59 |
| amotoki | it would be nice if someone investigates it | 13:59 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, I can see it after my PDF implemenation in Docs team is finished | 13:59 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: nice | 13:59 |
| ianychoi | It is now 95%... I think | 13:59 |
| ianychoi | And for a next step, I am asking one Korean contributor to propose & implement a spec: translated PDF support | 14:00 |
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| ianychoi | Also, I am now doing my best to have successful transition from prev. design summit to forum | 14:00 |
| ianychoi | :) | 14:01 |
| -amotoki- time check | 14:01 | |
| ianychoi | Thanks you so much today, jpich jftalta amotoki | 14:01 |
| ianychoi | Let's finish it :) | 14:01 |
| jpich | Thanks :) | 14:01 |
| ianychoi | #endmeeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 16 14:01:34 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2017/openstack_i18n_meeting.2017-03-16-13.05.html | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2017/openstack_i18n_meeting.2017-03-16-13.05.txt | 14:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2017/openstack_i18n_meeting.2017-03-16-13.05.log.html | 14:01 |
| amotoki | thanks | 14:01 |
| jftalta | thanks, bye | 14:01 |
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| ianychoi | Bye all! | 14:01 |
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| andreaf | #start meeting qa | 17:02 |
| andreaf | #startmeeting qa | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 16 17:02:33 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is andreaf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:02 |
| andreaf | sorry my wifi crashed right before the meeting.... | 17:02 |
| andreaf | who's here today? | 17:02 |
| blancos | o/ | 17:03 |
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| andreaf | Today's agenda: #linK https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Agenda_for_March_16th_2017_.281700_UTC.29 | 17:03 |
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| oomichi | hi | 17:03 |
| andreaf | hi | 17:03 |
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| tosky | hi | 17:04 |
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| andreaf | the agenda is a bit packed today, let's start, perhaps more will join | 17:04 |
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| andreaf | #topic actions from previous meeting | 17:05 |
| andreaf | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2017/qa.2017-03-09-09.00.txt | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:05 | |
| andreaf | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2017/qa.2017-03-09-09.00.txt | 17:05 |
| andreaf | one action was for gmann to check on libvirt crashes | 17:05 |
| andreaf | as far as I know they are still very much around | 17:05 |
| andreaf | one action was for me to work on the goals, I'll talk about those in a minute | 17:06 |
| andreaf | and that's about it | 17:06 |
| jordanP | (hi) | 17:06 |
| andreaf | #topic The Forum, Boston | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "The Forum, Boston (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:06 | |
| andreaf | so I just wanted to briefly talk about the forum in boston | 17:07 |
| andreaf | as you may have seen in the ML we have a chance to come up with ideas for topics to discuss at the forum | 17:07 |
| andreaf | I set up an etherpad for brainstorming: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-QA-brainstorming | 17:07 |
| andreaf | please put your thoughts in there :) | 17:08 |
| oomichi | yeah, that is nice to get idea :) btw how much time can we use for forum? | 17:08 |
| andreaf | the ML thread is #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114017.html | 17:08 |
| oomichi | 2days or 3days? | 17:08 |
| andreaf | oomichi: well there's no project dedicated time as far as I understand | 17:08 |
| andreaf | oomichi: it's mostly about cross project discussions | 17:08 |
| oomichi | andreaf: oh, ok. I am reading the mail on -dev | 17:09 |
| andreaf | err, I got the wrong ML link sorry | 17:09 |
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| andreaf | ML link #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113459.html | 17:10 |
| andreaf | well I need to check how many days | 17:11 |
| oomichi | andreaf: you are already requesting slots on forum :) | 17:11 |
| andreaf | also at the summit we will have onboarding sessions | 17:11 |
| andreaf | onboarding #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-QA-onboarding | 17:11 |
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| andreaf | I setup an etherpad for ideas, we're going to have about 15min to present what we do to new contributors | 17:12 |
| andreaf | I think it's quite important :) | 17:12 |
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| andreaf | we share a 90min session with infra / stable / release, so 15 min each | 17:12 |
| oomichi | mtreinish is writing testing guideline on gerrit, that would be helpful for forum | 17:12 |
| chandankumar | sorry i am late | 17:12 |
| chandankumar | hello all! | 17:13 |
| oomichi | chandankumar: hi :) | 17:13 |
| andreaf | oomichi: heh sure but I think we need to have something more presentation like about what we do | 17:13 |
| oomichi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439830/ | 17:13 |
| andreaf | oomichi: with a lof of links to the docs :) | 17:13 |
| oomichi | andreaf: yeah, doc is important :) | 17:14 |
| andreaf | we won't have time to get into anything detail, we just need to highlight the cool things we do and attract folks to come and join our team | 17:14 |
| oomichi | ++ | 17:14 |
| andreaf | so again if you have ideas about this put them in the etherpad | 17:15 |
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| andreaf | moving on since we have a packed agenda | 17:15 |
| andreaf | #topic OpenStack University | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack University (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:15 | |
| chandankumar | oomichi: andreaf i have started putting thoughts on how to improve docs which put on etherpad soon | 17:15 |
| andreaf | I wanted to take one moment to mention this | 17:15 |
| andreaf | chandankumar: cool thanks | 17:15 |
| oomichi | chandankumar: thanks :) | 17:15 |
| andreaf | I think this is a really important initiative | 17:16 |
| oomichi | chandankumar: which etherpad you will put ? | 17:16 |
| andreaf | making a nice and welcoming experience for new contributors is key for OpenStack | 17:16 |
| chandankumar | oomichi: i will put on etherpad.o.o , will pass you link tomorrow | 17:16 |
| andreaf | #info gmann is the QA liason for openstack university | 17:17 |
| oomichi | chandankumar: nice, thanks! | 17:17 |
| andreaf | thanks gmann for volunteering | 17:17 |
| andreaf | but anyone can put their name in to help out | 17:17 |
| andreaf | volunteers for openstack university #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_University | 17:17 |
| andreaf | there are sessions at the summit so every 6 months | 17:18 |
| andreaf | but it's also an ongoing effort | 17:18 |
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| andreaf | #topic Gate status | 17:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate status (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:19 | |
| andreaf | so the gate is not so healthy still | 17:19 |
| andreaf | one change for mysql tuning was merged and reverted quickly | 17:19 |
| andreaf | Gate status #link https://goo.gl/ptPgEw | 17:20 |
| andreaf | failures are still too many | 17:20 |
| andreaf | so I think we may still have too much load during the API phase | 17:20 |
| oomichi | oh, that seems bad.. | 17:20 |
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| andreaf | I've been working on splitting API and scenario test, but the d-g patch is still up for review | 17:21 |
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| jordanP | the problem seems to be memory consumption | 17:21 |
| andreaf | d-g patch for scenario job: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/442565/ | 17:21 |
| oomichi | oom-killer? | 17:21 |
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| jordanP | if we can't reduce our memory usage and increase the memory available we are stuck | 17:21 |
| jordanP | andreaf, what's the purpose of your patch ? | 17:22 |
| andreaf | jordanP: so I'm setting up a scenario only job | 17:23 |
| jordanP | you plan to not run any scenarios by default ? | 17:23 |
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| andreaf | jordanP: so if we can take scenarios out completely from the other job and reduce concurrency that would help on memory impact | 17:23 |
| jordanP | no, I doubt it | 17:23 |
| andreaf | jordanP: well the patch with concurrency 3 seem to behave better | 17:24 |
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| andreaf | jordanP: and API tests with concurrency 4 create a lot of load because some of servers and volumes creations | 17:24 |
| jordanP | it's only a small workaround that will give us, maybe, a couple of months | 17:24 |
| andreaf | jordanP: it's one possible direction | 17:24 |
| andreaf | jordanP: well it's many efforts going on in parallel | 17:25 |
| andreaf | tuning mysql, removing deprecated api versions, reduce concurrency | 17:25 |
| andreaf | checking for unneeded heavy tests | 17:25 |
| jordanP | Tempest can't be the only one paying the price | 17:25 |
| andreaf | debug failures | 17:25 |
| andreaf | jordanP: I'm not sure what you mean by that | 17:26 |
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| andreaf | a lot of folks in the community are looking into this not only QA | 17:26 |
| jordanP | well, the problem is not with the tests or with the concurrency but we the dozens of python services openstack spawns | 17:26 |
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| jordanP | and the apache2 workers etc... | 17:27 |
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| andreaf | jordanP: I don't think anyone has the final proof on what the cause is and there are many opinions | 17:27 |
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| andreaf | jordanP: there was a discussion on that in the ML as well | 17:28 |
| andreaf | jordanP: but we need to do our best on our side to make sure we keep the SUT under a reasonable load | 17:28 |
| andreaf | jordanP: and it's true that for a while we've been adding stuff with not much control | 17:28 |
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| jordanP | not sure who we mean by "we" | 17:29 |
| jordanP | *you | 17:29 |
| andreaf | jordanP: well I meant the QA team | 17:29 |
| andreaf | jordanP: hitting the SUT as hard as we can is not very good | 17:29 |
| jordanP | then I disagree, we've been running with the same concurrency for a really long time | 17:30 |
| oomichi | it would be important to measure memory usages for each process at the time the problem happens | 17:30 |
| jordanP | already done | 17:30 |
| jordanP | we have mem_tracker.py | 17:30 |
| oomichi | then which process consumes? | 17:31 |
| jordanP | http://logs.openstack.org/65/442565/3/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-full-ubuntu-xenial/b326e3e/logs/screen-peakmem_tracker.txt.gz | 17:31 |
| andreaf | jordanP: so I think we need to tackle this from many different fronts | 17:31 |
| jordanP | mysql is arounf 500MB, the sum of apache works around 500M, the sum of python VMs around XGB | 17:31 |
| andreaf | jordanP: and just saying it's not a QA problem won't get us anywhere | 17:31 |
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| andreaf | jordanP: but I value a lot the concurrent testing, so I want to be very careful with keeping it | 17:32 |
| tosky | that's ture, but what is the plan in case the services just kept growing their resource usage? | 17:32 |
| jordanP | exactly | 17:32 |
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| andreaf | tosky, jordanP: well that must be kept under control as well for sure but it's out of my hands at least - I can only weigh in in the ML thread and discussions at PTG/ forum | 17:34 |
| oomichi | cool, the log is gotten when the end of Tempest, right? | 17:34 |
| andreaf | jordanP, tosky: that's for sure a good discussion topic for the forum | 17:34 |
| oomichi | because MemAvailable seems much enough | 17:34 |
| andreaf | jordanP: perhaps you can write down about that in our brainstorming etherpad | 17:35 |
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| jordanP | memavailable is always 8GB because those VM have 8GB of ram | 17:35 |
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| jordanP | I may miss the Forum | 17:36 |
| andreaf | jordanP: can I give an action to you to sum up the info we have on this and restore the ML thread? | 17:36 |
| andreaf | jordanP: too bad | 17:36 |
| andreaf | but please still do contribute to the brainstorming | 17:36 |
| jordanP | andreaf, yeah ok, I can restore the ML thread | 17:37 |
| andreaf | we should talk about that | 17:37 |
| jordanP | which one is it exactly ? | 17:37 |
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| andreaf | heh there were a couple of them right? | 17:37 |
| jordanP | haha, possibly, ok I'll look for it/them | 17:38 |
| andreaf | #action jordanP collect memory info about the gate and write to the ML | 17:38 |
| andreaf | jordanP: thanks for looking into that | 17:38 |
| andreaf | I think we should move on | 17:38 |
| andreaf | #topic Pike Goals | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pike Goals (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:39 | |
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| andreaf | so I looked into the Pike goals | 17:39 |
| andreaf | for py35 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-qa-goals-py35 | 17:40 |
| andreaf | there are py35 unit tests missing on stackviz and little more | 17:40 |
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| andreaf | some python 3.5 to be setup in setup.cfg | 17:40 |
| andreaf | I could not get a clear statement yet about integration tests in test projects | 17:41 |
| andreaf | but I guess it would be good to have them as well | 17:41 |
| andreaf | so patrole has non-voting dsvm jobs - but they are not py35 | 17:41 |
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| andreaf | blancos: I guess that would be something for you ^^^ | 17:42 |
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| oomichi | andreaf: as the first, we need to enable py35 for unittests, right? | 17:42 |
| andreaf | but I think overall it's not worth setting up a spec, I planned to have a gerrit topic or so | 17:42 |
| oomichi | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/pike/python35.html#projects-with-unit-tests-voting seems to require us to do it | 17:43 |
| andreaf | yes we have that everywhere but stackviz | 17:43 |
| andreaf | oomichi: have a look at the etherpad | 17:43 |
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| andreaf | oomichi: I checked every single project in the QA group today | 17:44 |
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| oomichi | andreaf: cool, thanks | 17:44 |
| andreaf | for wsgi #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-qa-goals-wsgi | 17:44 |
| andreaf | I already put up the goverance patch #link https://review.openstack.org/446500 | 17:44 |
| andreaf | for wsgi basically is no-op | 17:45 |
| andreaf | the only thing more or less related would be openstack heath api | 17:45 |
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| andreaf | but that runs as wsgi app in openstack infra already | 17:46 |
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| andreaf | #topic Spec reviews | 17:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:46 | |
| andreaf | spec reviews #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/qa-specs,n,z | 17:46 |
| andreaf | is there anything on spec reviews? | 17:46 |
| andreaf | I did not have a chance yet to look at destructive testing spec | 17:46 |
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| andreaf | #topic Tempest | 17:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:47 | |
| andreaf | any update on bugs? | 17:48 |
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| oomichi | this week is jwhite | 17:48 |
| andreaf | yeah | 17:49 |
| andreaf | and we need more candidates for upcoming weeks | 17:49 |
| oomichi | yeah | 17:49 |
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| andreaf | ok if there's nothing urgent on Tempest let's move on | 17:51 |
| andreaf | #topic Patrole | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Patrole (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:51 | |
| andreaf | blancos: anything on patrole? | 17:51 |
| blancos | I had a question about the number of gates | 17:51 |
| blancos | Is there a limit? We were planning on adding one, possibly two more | 17:52 |
| felipemonteiro_ | We'll change our gates to py35, but right now we're trying to achieve stability..one is almost there, the other we're debugging | 17:52 |
| andreaf | blancos: there's no formal limit | 17:52 |
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| andreaf | blancos: more gates means more contention on test resources but usually it's not an issue unless you have a really high number | 17:53 |
| andreaf | but I would not worry about adding an extra integration job if it's needed | 17:53 |
| jordanP | and more false negative | 17:53 |
| clarkb | I think most projects end up causing problems for themselves with a bunch of jobs that don't pass reliably before they cause problems for the collective by using too many resources | 17:53 |
| clarkb | jordanP: ya that | 17:53 |
| jordanP | depends on your job stability | 17:54 |
| blancos | Okay, thank you. I think that's about it for Patrole. | 17:54 |
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| andreaf | felipemonteiro_: thanks I look forward to stable dsvm jobs there | 17:54 |
| andreaf | since time is short I will skip to reviews | 17:55 |
| andreaf | #topic Critical Reviews | 17:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:55 | |
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| andreaf | any critical review? | 17:55 |
| andreaf | sounds like not? | 17:56 |
| jordanP | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426264/ | 17:56 |
| jordanP | not critical but just wanted to "share" | 17:56 |
| jordanP | or https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445910/1 | 17:56 |
| andreaf | Interesting review: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426264/ | 17:56 |
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| andreaf | Also review about memory footprint: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445910/1 | 17:57 |
| andreaf | jordanP thanks good to know :) | 17:57 |
| andreaf | #topic Open discussion | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:58 | |
| clarkb | jordanP: we can also tune the number of workers in apache itself (which affects memory too | 17:58 |
| clarkb | tls proxy did that unnecessarily in fact, I can push a revert up | 17:58 |
| jordanP | it's worth a try, yes | 17:58 |
| andreaf | clarkb: I wonder if not running TLS in every job might help? | 17:59 |
| clarkb | andreaf: we don't run tls in every job | 17:59 |
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| clarkb | only the "base" jobs and I think its more specialty jobs that OOM | 17:59 |
| clarkb | ? | 17:59 |
| andreaf | heh ok | 17:59 |
| andreaf | ok we're at time | 18:00 |
| andreaf | #endmeeting QA | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 16 18:00:05 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2017/qa.2017-03-16-17.02.html | 18:00 |
| clarkb | we could also potentially switch to haproxy for tls termination | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2017/qa.2017-03-16-17.02.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2017/qa.2017-03-16-17.02.log.html | 18:00 |
| clarkb | I think it is way more lightweight | 18:00 |
| andreaf | thanks everyone! | 18:00 |
| clarkb | (we used apache because it was already there) | 18:00 |
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| dtroyer | #startmeeting openstackclient | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 16 19:03:30 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dtroyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstackclient)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstackclient' | 19:03 |
| dtroyer | Who is here for an OSC meeting? | 19:03 |
| rabel | i am :) | 19:03 |
| rabel | but more or less as a listener, since i just started contributing lately | 19:04 |
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| dtroyer | welcome rabel, glad to have you here, both meeting-wise and with the project | 19:04 |
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| rabel | thanks :) | 19:05 |
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| dtroyer | This may be short, I don't expect stevemar to be here much anymore, but he is still hitting reviews it seems | 19:06 |
| dtroyer | These meetings are fairly free-form since there isn't usually a lot of folks here | 19:07 |
| dtroyer | So I'll drop a couple of status things here for the logs then we'll see if anything else comes up | 19:07 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | alrighty | 19:07 |
| dtroyer | #topic releases | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "releases (Meeting topic: openstackclient)" | 19:07 | |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | welcome rabel | 19:08 |
| dtroyer | We released 3.9.0 last week to release fixes for the SDK 0.9.14 release that made some API changes to network | 19:08 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | any known priority bugs? | 19:08 |
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| dtroyer | it was also the first rlease after the freeze so a lot of stuff had accumilated anyway | 19:08 |
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| dtroyer | ankur-gupta-f1: do you mean outstanding or part of the release? | 19:09 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | from release | 19:09 |
| * dtroyer glances through the release notes | 19:09 | |
| dtroyer | the major ones are the fixes for the network session changes, that's what triggered the sudden quick release | 19:10 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | the v1 image tests got fixed but still seeing scattered functional failures. Wondering if its due to known issue or just race conditions. Haven't gotten chance to dig in yet | 19:10 |
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| dtroyer | I'll get to that in a minute | 19:10 |
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| stevemar | dtroyer: i randomly have a gap in my calendar, i'll tune in :) | 19:13 |
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| dtroyer | I would like to get through some of the long-running command additions soon and cut 3.10.0 and try to get caught up. Then there is a series of things around changes to os-client-config and auth and argument handling coming up | 19:14 |
| dtroyer | It is quite possible that those will trigger 4.0 as I expect some of the details of how options are parsed may change and we'll need to signal a compaibility change | 19:15 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | dtroyer: probably the best candidate to fit that category is this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383025/ . | 19:15 |
| dtroyer | When we start that, I am planning to do a feature branch for the 4.0 work so we don't block so long on bug fixes while waiting for that to complete | 19:15 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | is there a spec/bp in place that discusses the potential changes to option parsing | 19:16 |
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| dtroyer | no, it's all in my, mordred and jamielennox's heads still. Jamie has started with the simplification of occ and a chunk of that needs to get completed first anyway. | 19:16 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | hah okay | 19:17 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | will keep eye out | 19:17 |
| dtroyer | my intention is to not change anything, but at some point we need to get rid of some old behaviour that is causing us pain and to be different than other tools using occ (shade, etc) | 19:17 |
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| dtroyer | another high-priority thing is to get the microversion handling sorted out for compute and volume | 19:18 |
| dtroyer | those are the high-level plans that are not "implement more missing commands" | 19:19 |
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| dtroyer | oh, forgot one, needing to build the hooks for plugins to add to common commands like quotas | 19:19 |
| dtroyer | there are some other implications there too that may be best timed for 4.0 | 19:20 |
| dtroyer | any questions so far? | 19:20 |
| rabel | is "implement more missing commands" the kind of task that is also suitable new at osc development? like me? | 19:20 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | do we want to do micro versions this release or wait for next. thinking of the resources needed to get both occ and micro version support done for Pike | 19:21 |
| rabel | i wanted to say "...for someone new..." | 19:21 |
| dtroyer | that is the category that things like the remaining network commands and volume v3 fall in to, those will always be around to some degree and always on the roadmap | 19:21 |
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| dtroyer | the microversion handling is more connected to the plumbing insetting up compute and volume clients properly than to getting the options from the user (we already have that) | 19:22 |
| dtroyer | and also to building the bits we need for branching inside command classes to handle multple versions | 19:23 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | ack | 19:24 |
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| dtroyer | #topic reviews | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: openstackclient)" | 19:25 | |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | Flavor Profile: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396783/ | 19:26 |
| dtroyer | The current state of the queue is back to operational thanks to frickler and RuiChen and whomever else caught my failed attempt to restore image v1 to our devstack | 19:26 |
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| dtroyer | FWIW, the last change frickler submitted should also fix the volume backing file size that I believe is the root cause of our volume failures | 19:26 |
| dtroyer | That seems random because the order and parallelism in running the tests is non-deterministic, and when enough volume tests run at the same time we run out of volume space | 19:27 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | will keep eye on gate | 19:27 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | FIP/Port : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383025/ | 19:27 |
| dtroyer | so once https://review.openstack.org/#/c/446504/ merges we should see a drop in the volume failures | 19:27 |
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| rabel | thats nice! | 19:28 |
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| dtroyer | ankur-gupta-f1: we need to wrap up both of those soon, they have gone on a long time | 19:30 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | We can push the 2 agent commands later. but Flavor and the FIP should be top of the networking commands list | 19:31 |
| dtroyer | I just glanced at today's comments on 383025, need to address command formats again | 19:31 |
| sindhu | dtroyer: for reviews: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/379813/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382023/ as well | 19:32 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | sindhu: address Rui Chens comments on 382023 first please | 19:33 |
| sindhu | ankur-gupta-f4: I need dtroyer's comment on that. Whether it is needed or not | 19:33 |
| dtroyer | which comment? the 'do we need a show command' one? | 19:34 |
| sindhu | dtroyer: yes | 19:35 |
| dtroyer | I don't have a problem with having a show command even if we can get all of the fields via list | 19:35 |
| dtroyer | because with list you either need to hand the filters on the command to get just one, or you need to filter it yousrlf (as a user) | 19:35 |
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| dtroyer | this happens with other resources where —long shows everything | 19:36 |
| sindhu | dtroyer: ok great. I will address the rest of the comments today and keep it review ready :) | 19:36 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | stevemar: will you get a chance to do some reviews as well today? | 19:37 |
| dtroyer | I need to refresh on this overall though, and to make sure that it isn't too network-centric where command changes will be required to add other APIs | 19:37 |
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| dtroyer | also, I consider bulk changes like the six.iteritems() reviews to be low priority as they are mostly cosmetic and could possible conflict with a large number of other reviews in flight | 19:40 |
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| dtroyer | I just took a quick look at the agent review (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/387611/), is there still outstanding questions on that regarding the command formats? | 19:41 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | I don't think so. Pretty much resolved | 19:42 |
| dtroyer | cool | 19:42 |
| dtroyer | any other reviews that we need to discuss? | 19:43 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | let me check my list | 19:43 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | My top items were Flavor Profile, FIP/Port, Quota List, the 2 agent commands. | 19:44 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | quota show once those comments are resolved. | 19:44 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | been keeping an eye on the v3 volume as it comes in | 19:45 |
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| dtroyer | volume v3 is special, in that we lat it point to the v2 commands rather than copy them. | 19:46 |
| dtroyer | we MUST not let any v3 changes in to the v2 tree, those classes need to be copied as changes are made | 19:46 |
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| dtroyer | having to remember that is one reason I've insisted prior to this to just copy the entire tree :) | 19:47 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | correct just changing the env api-version | 19:47 |
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| ankur-gupta-f4 | first time i saw https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/blob/master/openstackclient/tests/functional/volume/v3/test_volume.py#L17 | 19:48 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | i was like ... why.... | 19:48 |
| dtroyer | so that will force the tests top be copied to actually work, as they will need to use the right superclass | 19:49 |
| dtroyer | so yeah, that chould just copy the v2 file to /v3 and go from there | 19:49 |
| dtroyer | ATM that is totally unused, and mostly harmless | 19:49 |
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| dtroyer | really, that should be the first thing we do, is copy all of the unit and functional tests before copying any code | 19:50 |
| dtroyer | we're under 10 minutes left, so … | 19:51 |
| dtroyer | #topic open discussion | 19:51 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | Well thats all i got. Gotta quickly eat before next meeting in 10. If you remember the plugin client that is implemented just as plugin it would be really helpful otherwise will reference the cookie cutter. Thanks dtroyer: | 19:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: openstackclient)" | 19:51 | |
| dtroyer | what else is on your minds? | 19:51 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | rabel: welcome to the team. | 19:52 |
| rabel | thanks ankur-gupta-f4. good to be here! | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | ankur-gupta-f1: the osc-debug repo is exactly that, or am I misunderstanding you? | 19:52 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | rabel: feel free to add me to any reviews. | 19:53 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | dtroyer: oh yea. thats good enough. | 19:53 |
| dtroyer | good deal | 19:53 |
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| rabel | ankur-gupta-f4: thank you. i'll probably do that ;) | 19:54 |
| ankur-gupta-f4 | rabel: don't fear the -1. embrace it :P | 19:54 |
| rabel | :D | 19:54 |
| dtroyer | on a client-related note I've been chasing some issues in cliff's stable gates… | 19:54 |
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| * dhellmann perks up his ears | 19:54 | |
| dtroyer | we got into a bind with a combination of events that are requiring multiple things in a single review to unblock | 19:55 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: yeah, I was about to ask you about those, two are the appdirs problem that I thought I knew how to unblock | 19:55 |
| dhellmann | which ones? | 19:55 |
| dtroyer | clearly I'm not getting something right | 19:55 |
| dtroyer | my current attempts: newton https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445187/ | 19:55 |
| dtroyer | ocata: https://review.openstack.org/445186 | 19:56 |
| dtroyer | mitaka is passed but hung up in merge, I need to poke in -infra on that one I think | 19:56 |
| dtroyer | unless it needs the other two to pass too for some reason I don't see | 19:56 |
| dhellmann | oh, I removed my workflow bit because I thought we would want the changes in the newer branches to merge first | 19:56 |
| dtroyer | ok, np | 19:57 |
| dhellmann | only because I thought that was policy | 19:57 |
| dhellmann | I'll poke at the other 2 patches this afternoon for a bit | 19:57 |
| dtroyer | it probably is, I ended up poking at all three to see if they all had the same problems | 19:57 |
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| dtroyer | they didn't | 19:57 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll start with ocata then | 19:57 |
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| dtroyer | thanks | 19:58 |
| dtroyer | Two minutes… anything else? | 19:58 |
| dtroyer | so let's call it a meeting a minute early | 19:59 |
| dtroyer | thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| dtroyer | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 16 19:59:59 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstackclient/2017/openstackclient.2017-03-16-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstackclient/2017/openstackclient.2017-03-16-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstackclient/2017/openstackclient.2017-03-16-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | heh, turned out to only be a second early :) | 20:00 |
| rabel | thank you and cu | 20:00 |
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| mriedem | #startmeeting nova | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 16 21:00:49 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mriedem. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:00 |
| edleafe | \o | 21:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:01 |
| dtp | o/ | 21:01 |
| melwitt | o/ | 21:01 |
| efried | o/ | 21:01 |
| lyarwood | o/ | 21:01 |
| efried | DST is stupid. | 21:01 |
| bauzas | \o | 21:01 |
| * efried was really confused in the novaclient meeting an hour ago | 21:01 | |
| mriedem | efried: there is a novaclient meeting? | 21:02 |
| efried | openstackclient, mebbe | 21:02 |
| mriedem | yes | 21:02 |
| mriedem | ok so let's get started | 21:02 |
| mriedem | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 21:02 |
| mriedem | #topic release news | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release news (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:03 | |
| mriedem | #link Pike release schedule: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/Pike_Release_Schedule | 21:03 |
| mriedem | #info Blueprints: 58 targeted, 30 approved | 21:03 |
| mriedem | #info Open spec reviews: 116 | 21:03 |
| mriedem | ^ as of yesterday | 21:03 |
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| mriedem | #info Reminder that spec freeze is on the p-1 milestone which is April 13th | 21:03 |
| mriedem | questions? | 21:04 |
| mriedem | #topic Bugs (stuck/critical) | 21:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (stuck/critical) (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:04 | |
| mriedem | no critical bugs | 21:04 |
| mriedem | #link https://launchpad.net/bugs/1671648 - Instances are not rescheduled after deploy fails | 21:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1671648 in OpenStack Compute (nova) ocata "Instances are not rescheduled after deploy fails" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Matt Riedemann (mriedem) | 21:04 |
| mriedem | that was a notable mention, the fix is in the gate for master, | 21:05 |
| mriedem | i've begun backporting to ocata | 21:05 |
| mriedem | "backport proceedings" | 21:05 |
| mriedem | #link check queue gate status http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/index.html | 21:05 |
| mriedem | gate is same old | 21:05 |
| mriedem | dansmith: ever hear if jbernard made progress on the ceph job? | 21:05 |
| dansmith | mriedem: no, actually | 21:05 |
| dansmith | I should ask him | 21:06 |
| mriedem | are you waring your kicking boots? | 21:06 |
| mriedem | *wearing | 21:06 |
| melwitt | I checked for open reviews from him recently and didn't see anything | 21:06 |
| mriedem | ok | 21:06 |
| mriedem | #action follow up with jbernard about the ceph job | 21:06 |
| mriedem | for 3rd party ci, there isn't much news, | 21:06 |
| mriedem | except my thread on the ML about the vmware ci | 21:06 |
| mriedem | or lack thereof | 21:07 |
| mriedem | doesn't appear we have any vmware people in the meeting | 21:07 |
| mriedem | which isn't surprising | 21:07 |
| mriedem | moving on | 21:07 |
| mriedem | #topic reminders | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reminders (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:07 | |
| mriedem | #link Pike Review Priorities etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-nova-priorities-tracking | 21:07 |
| mriedem | let's keep that up to date | 21:08 |
| mriedem | #link Forum planning: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Boston2017 | 21:08 |
| mriedem | #info EOD April 2: deadline for Forum topic submission | 21:08 |
| mriedem | i haven't even looked at the topics yet | 21:08 |
| mriedem | i've requested an onboarding room slot for nova | 21:08 |
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| mriedem | i have at least one person interested in running that | 21:08 |
| mriedem | name rhymes with hague | 21:09 |
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| mriedem | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-Nova-brainstorming Forum discussion planning for nova (add your name if you are going) | 21:09 |
| mriedem | if you didn't see my ML thread, please put your name at the bottom of ^ if you think you'll be at the summit | 21:09 |
| mriedem | dansmith: i see you didn't get the message :) | 21:10 |
| dansmith | I also put a call out in the MIL one for cells, | 21:10 |
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| dansmith | looking for people from the ops summit to specifically bring outcomes and questions to forum | 21:10 |
| mriedem | oh the ops meetup | 21:10 |
| mriedem | yeah | 21:10 |
| mriedem | i should track that etherpad down, no idea if they even talked about cells v2 | 21:10 |
| dansmith | yeah they had one, just got filled out in the last couple days, | 21:11 |
| bauzas | they did | 21:11 |
| bauzas | I have a source :p | 21:11 |
| dansmith | mostly just looking for feedback on who is interested or paying attention | 21:11 |
| mriedem | besides dpt | 21:11 |
| mriedem | *dtp | 21:11 |
| dtp | O_o | 21:11 |
| mriedem | ok | 21:11 |
| mriedem | #topic Stable branch status: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stable-tracker | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stable branch status: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stable-tracker (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:11 | |
| mriedem | stable/ocata: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:stable/ocata,n,z | 21:11 |
| mriedem | #info Ocata 15.0.1 is released. | 21:11 |
| bauzas | so the main issue they encountered is they tried to understand our features without really having lots of people knowing it | 21:11 |
| bauzas | (that's my source who told that) | 21:12 |
| mriedem | bauzas: so let me get this straight, | 21:12 |
| mriedem | they are all up in our kool aid, | 21:12 |
| mriedem | without even knowing the flavor? | 21:12 |
| bauzas | LOL | 21:12 |
| mriedem | moving on | 21:12 |
| mriedem | stable/newton: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:stable/newton,n,z | 21:13 |
| mriedem | and mitaka is basically eol | 21:13 |
| lyarwood | mriedem: any plans for the final stable/mitaka release? | 21:13 |
| mriedem | lyarwood: that happens when the actual eol happens | 21:13 |
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| lyarwood | mriedem: ah nice | 21:13 |
| mriedem | which is 2017-04-10 | 21:13 |
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| mriedem | so let's hope for now whammies | 21:14 |
| mriedem | *no | 21:14 |
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| mriedem | #topic subteam highlights | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam highlights (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:14 | |
| mriedem | dansmith: cellsv2 | 21:14 |
| dansmith | ohai | 21:14 |
| dansmith | we mostly just talked about the current efforts, my patch series to get multiple cells working, | 21:14 |
| * edleafe gets scheduler notes prepared | 21:14 | |
| dansmith | as well as melwitt's for quota | 21:14 |
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| dansmith | and talked about some of the regression bugs that have come up and mostly been squashed recently | 21:15 |
| dansmith | I believe that is all | 21:15 |
| mriedem | i also saw you made changes to the counting quotas stuff last night to make it smaller patches | 21:15 |
| dansmith | oh, yeah | 21:15 |
| mriedem | but i haven't looked | 21:15 |
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| dansmith | well, I took a thing that was working and made it not work, but in smaller pieces | 21:15 |
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| dansmith | but I think it's the right way to go | 21:15 |
| mriedem | heh, ok | 21:15 |
| melwitt | haha, that's a funny way to put it | 21:16 |
| mriedem | melwitt will piece it back together i'm sure | 21:16 |
| mriedem | ok, edleafe - scheduler | 21:16 |
| edleafe | Traits series looks close - just a few issues left | 21:16 |
| edleafe | Ironic Inventory patch discussed - has since merged (yay!) | 21:16 |
| edleafe | Starting to work on functional test coverage for placement - looking for input there | 21:16 |
| edleafe | Discussed the general thoughts on separating placement into its own repo. Generally in favor of sooner than later, with Queens being the working target to tackle this. | 21:16 |
| edleafe | EOM | 21:16 |
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| mriedem | ok | 21:17 |
| mriedem | i don't think there was a live migration meeting this week since tdurakov was sick | 21:17 |
| mriedem | so onto api | 21:17 |
| mriedem | alex_xu left some notes: | 21:17 |
| mriedem | The spec for policy docs merged https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433010/ | 21:17 |
| mriedem | The spec for removing scope check need wider feedback https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433037/ | 21:18 |
| mriedem | Discuss the spec show scheduler_hints in the response https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440580/, found two problems: | 21:18 |
| mriedem | There is no quota/limit in the request of scheduler_hints, this should be fixed as a bug | 21:18 |
| mriedem | Need more strong use-case for this proposal | 21:18 |
| mriedem | and finally, | 21:18 |
| mriedem | A PoC come up for removing the stevedore from the nova API to reach the final goal of no extension https://review.openstack.org/445864, people think this is specless BP and can be done in Pike. | 21:18 |
| dansmith | woot | 21:19 |
| mriedem | we could just rename and reuse https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/api-no-more-extensions-ocata under that | 21:19 |
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| mriedem | no sriov/pci people around | 21:19 |
| mriedem | notification updates | 21:20 |
| mriedem | 1. BDM in InstancePayload proposal is discussed both on the meeting and on the ML. Implementation is ongoing. | 21:20 |
| mriedem | 2. Searchlight team will provide the list of notifications need to be transformed to the versioned format to be able to switch to consuming versioned notifications in Searchlight. | 21:20 |
| mriedem | i guess once we get that list from searchlight, we have our priority list for versioned notifications, | 21:20 |
| mriedem | which would be nice | 21:20 |
| mriedem | efried: powervm, go | 21:20 |
| efried | Yeaux | 21:20 |
| efried | https://review.openstack.org/438119 (bottom-most change set) refreshed per mriedem review. Changes nontrivial, so it's going to take me a while to rebase the rest on top. Meanwhile, encourage others to review this 'un. | 21:20 |
| efried | That's about all I have. | 21:21 |
| mriedem | ok so i can look at the first change again now? | 21:21 |
| efried | Yes please. | 21:21 |
| mriedem | you took out the swear words? | 21:21 |
| mriedem | ok | 21:21 |
| efried | Hah | 21:21 |
| efried | No, those are still there. | 21:21 |
| efried | Including "Swamp Thing". | 21:21 |
| mriedem | mmm adrien barbeau | 21:22 |
| mriedem | ok nova/cinder: still working on same things as last week (bdm.attachment_id, support for cinder v3, and the John's spec for the new cinder APIs) | 21:22 |
| mriedem | i've got +2s on lyarwood's attachment_id changes to the bdm model | 21:22 |
| mriedem | jgriffith is working on making nova know which microversion is available in cinder | 21:22 |
| mriedem | and we still need more reviews on johnthetubaguy's spec | 21:22 |
| efried | link? | 21:23 |
| mriedem | #link cinder v3 attach spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/373203/ | 21:23 |
| mriedem | i haven't gone through it again myself since the ptg, so need to sit down and do that sometime, but mdbooth and lyarwood have been picking it over | 21:23 |
| * efried will do his usual thing, pointing out typos without actually understanding content. | 21:23 | |
| mriedem | but at some point, we'll just need to get off that pot | 21:23 |
| mriedem | or shit, i don't know which | 21:24 |
| mriedem | #topic stuck reviews | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "stuck reviews (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:24 | |
| mriedem | nothing on the agenda, anyone have anything here? | 21:24 |
| mriedem | stuck != no attention | 21:24 |
| mriedem | moving on | 21:24 |
| mriedem | #topic open discussion | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:24 | |
| mriedem | logan isn't here to discuss https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/lvm-thin-pool | 21:25 |
| mriedem | i feel like i told them to talk to cfriesen and/or cburgess about that one | 21:25 |
| cburgess | Do what now? | 21:25 |
| mriedem | i feel like i've heard opsy types talking about already having that support out of tree | 21:25 |
| mriedem | cburgess: ^ the lvm thin pool bp | 21:26 |
| cburgess | Oh that... yeah cfriesen and I discussed that at the PTG. I don't have out of tree code but I think he said he did or knew someone who did. | 21:26 |
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| cburgess | Its a good idea. We need it. | 21:26 |
| mriedem | cfriesen has all of the out of tree code | 21:26 |
| mriedem | which is why he shows up asking "is this supposed to happen?" | 21:26 |
| mriedem | ok i see -1s on the actual code patch | 21:26 |
| lyarwood | asking for a spec iirc | 21:27 |
| cburgess | mriedem Did you want me to review it and provide feedback? | 21:27 |
| mriedem | ok, i see mdbooth, lyarwood and cfriesen on review | 21:27 |
| mriedem | cburgess: sure | 21:27 |
| cburgess | mriedem Added to my list. | 21:27 |
| mriedem | from what i'm reading at the end, logan is ops and busy, but agrees a spec would be good | 21:27 |
| mriedem | so i'll wait for that | 21:27 |
| mriedem | #action mriedem to leave a note in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/lvm-thin-pool about needing a spec | 21:28 |
| mriedem | edleafe: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/remove-openstack-api-directory | 21:28 |
| mriedem | that was discussed a bit last week, | 21:28 |
| mriedem | edleafe: can i delegate that to the api subteam to decide? | 21:28 |
| mriedem | and you follow up with it in their weekly meeting? | 21:29 |
| edleafe | sure thing | 21:29 |
| mriedem | or just talk to sdague and alex_xu | 21:29 |
| mriedem | thanks | 21:29 |
| mriedem | last but sort of least, dtp: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/conf-network-metadata-always-static-ip | 21:29 |
| mriedem | dtp: did you want to say anything about that one? | 21:30 |
| dtp | For your consideration, this is a config option to have nova write static network config even when DHCP is enabled, for the purpose of fallback, and initial PXE boot for ironic. | 21:30 |
| mriedem | jroll: could you take a look at ^ ? | 21:30 |
| mriedem | this one is over my head | 21:30 |
| mriedem | or dansmith et al | 21:31 |
| dansmith | jroll gets a dedicated shout, but I am lumped in with "et al" eh? | 21:31 |
| mriedem | the change itself is relatively small | 21:31 |
| mriedem | dansmith: yes | 21:31 |
| dansmith | :( | 21:31 |
| mriedem | jroll is still considered a guest | 21:31 |
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| mriedem | ok so i guess we'll just talk about that later | 21:33 |
| mriedem | anyone else have anything they wanted to discuss? | 21:33 |
| dansmith | I'll look | 21:33 |
| mriedem | cool | 21:33 |
| dansmith | I mean, me and everyone else will look | 21:33 |
| mriedem | i'm assuming johnthetubaguy has input too | 21:33 |
| mriedem | hell, he'll probably sign up to own it | 21:33 |
| mriedem | ok, that's it, thanks everyone | 21:33 |
| mriedem | #endmeeting | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 16 21:34:00 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2017/nova.2017-03-16-21.00.html | 21:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2017/nova.2017-03-16-21.00.txt | 21:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2017/nova.2017-03-16-21.00.log.html | 21:34 |
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| kevinbenton | aloha | 22:01 |
| ihrachys | ajo | 22:01 |
| ihrachys | oops | 22:01 |
| ihrachys | ahoj I meant :) | 22:01 |
| ihrachys | that meeting becomes very late | 22:02 |
| * dasm sitting in a corner and waving o/ | 22:02 | |
| kevinbenton | :) | 22:02 |
| armax | yello | 22:02 |
| kevinbenton | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 16 22:02:27 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kevinbenton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 22:02 |
| ihrachys | it's 3pm outside, and I am still working. disgusting. | 22:02 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: we'll try to be quick :) | 22:02 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: maybe moving it for earlier? | 22:02 |
| armax | ihrachys: ah! I knew it | 22:03 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: yes, this timeslot was mainly for amotoki | 22:03 |
| ihrachys | amotoki is no longer? | 22:03 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: we can maybe go to early morning for him | 22:03 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: he's still around. i was just saying we can't just go earlier in the day without going much earlier | 22:03 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: otherwise he definitely won't make it | 22:03 |
| kevinbenton | armax: are you able to make an early morning meeting? | 22:04 |
| kevinbenton | armax: on thursdays? | 22:04 |
| armax | kevinbenton: depends how early | 22:04 |
| ihrachys | I am up from 8am so you consider | 22:04 |
| ihrachys | from 6am sorry | 22:04 |
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| armax | ihrachys: get out of town | 22:05 |
| ihrachys | see? I can't make sense that late | 22:05 |
| armax | my calendar is a mess right now | 22:05 |
| armax | but generally after 9 is best for me | 22:05 |
| kevinbenton | let me reach out to akihiro to see what times work for him | 22:05 |
| kevinbenton | 9 might be a bit too late | 22:05 |
| ihrachys | thanks | 22:05 |
| kevinbenton | #action kevinbenton to reschedule drivers meeting | 22:05 |
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| kevinbenton | any announcements before we dig into RFEs? | 22:06 |
| kevinbenton | ok | 22:06 |
| armax | kevinbenton: you’re the announcer, no? | 22:06 |
| kevinbenton | armax: i meant from you or ihrachys or anyone else | 22:06 |
| kevinbenton | i don't have anything | 22:06 |
| kevinbenton | ok | 22:07 |
| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=rfe-approved | 22:07 |
| armax | OK, I am working on the Pike stadium assessment, bear with me while I put something together | 22:07 |
| kevinbenton | ack | 22:07 |
| kevinbenton | sorry | 22:08 |
| kevinbenton | link should be https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.tag=rfe | 22:08 |
| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.tag=rfe | 22:08 |
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| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1476527 | 22:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1476527 in neutron "[RFE] Add common classifier resource" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Igor Duarte Cardoso (igordcard) | 22:09 |
| kevinbenton | armax: do you know the state of that one? | 22:09 |
| armax | no | 22:09 |
| kevinbenton | armax: it's still being done in a separate repo, no? | 22:09 |
| armax | it’s largely autonomous | 22:09 |
| armax | yes | 22:09 |
| ihrachys | going from top? flow classifier, should we approve that and follow up on spec that is already proposed? | 22:09 |
| ihrachys | igordcard checked with me on ptg, he is actively working | 22:09 |
| kevinbenton | yeah, i'm for moving to approved | 22:10 |
| ihrachys | + | 22:10 |
| kevinbenton | we have someone working on it | 22:10 |
| kevinbenton | and a way for it to be done non-disruptively | 22:10 |
| ihrachys | elaborate on that | 22:10 |
| ihrachys | they have their own repo | 22:10 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: well it's being built in a separate repo | 22:10 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: it's not going to break a bunch of stuff as they implement it is what i mean | 22:10 |
| ihrachys | yeah, I think we should just review the design of the API and otherwise go out of their way | 22:11 |
| ihrachys | if they deliver what they will write up, good | 22:11 |
| kevinbenton | armax: any objections ? | 22:11 |
| armax | nope | 22:12 |
| ihrachys | which may mean we should give them some freedom in terms of reviews and permissions for the repo | 22:12 |
| ihrachys | so that they can make progress | 22:12 |
| ihrachys | ofc after spec agrement | 22:12 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: sounds good | 22:12 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: want to change the state? | 22:12 |
| ihrachys | ok | 22:12 |
| armax | ihrachys: which repo? | 22:13 |
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| ihrachys | armax: neutron-classifier | 22:14 |
| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1583096 | 22:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1583096 in neutron "[RFE] ml2 supported extensions list is inaccurate" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:14 |
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| armax | ihrachys: they already have full access, don’t they? | 22:14 |
| kevinbenton | the comment at the end of this bug is a link to the same bug | 22:14 |
| kevinbenton | armax: were you trying to crash human parsers? | 22:15 |
| ihrachys | armax: could be, need to check. maybe igordcard doesn't | 22:15 |
| ihrachys | I assumed it's Sean Collins and mostly that's it | 22:15 |
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| armax | ihrachys: ack | 22:15 |
| * armax checks | 22:15 | |
| armax | https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/1184,members | 22:16 |
| armax | we need to open up the circle | 22:16 |
| armax | kevinbenton: yes | 22:16 |
| armax | my bad | 22:16 |
| armax | I am doing lots of unforced errors lately | 22:16 |
| armax | just like a bad tennis match | 22:17 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: re that ml2 bug, I think we had something specific for qos for that matter | 22:17 |
| * ihrachys looks | 22:17 | |
| kevinbenton | i think we should just roll https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1583096 into the work being done for https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1673142 | 22:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1583096 in neutron "[RFE] ml2 supported extensions list is inaccurate" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1673142 in neutron "[RFE][ML2] Enforce extension semantics" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 22:17 |
| kevinbenton | the latter RFE is the work we discussed last week | 22:17 |
| kevinbenton | so i'm going to mark 1583096 as dup of the newer one since that's the proposal I would like to see | 22:18 |
| ihrachys | I talk about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/253853/ | 22:18 |
| ihrachys | actually seems like it's quite generic | 22:19 |
| armax | ack | 22:19 |
| armax | makes snese | 22:19 |
| ihrachys | + on dup | 22:19 |
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| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1628627 | 22:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1628627 in neutron "In FWaaS, when someone makes a change to a firewall rule we know, Who, What, When, and Where" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:20 |
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| armax | as for that one, if we don’t have anyone working on the fwaas team | 22:21 |
| armax | might as well put it on the backburner | 22:21 |
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| kevinbenton | do we need an implementor before approving it? | 22:22 |
| kevinbenton | if someone is looking to get into fwaas this might be a good feature to start with | 22:22 |
| ihrachys | I would think yes, otherwise we fre-postponed? | 22:22 |
| kevinbenton | ok | 22:22 |
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| ihrachys | would make sense to reach them to see if they are interested | 22:23 |
| kevinbenton | i will leave a comment | 22:23 |
| ihrachys | at this point I would expect fwaas team to focus on stabilizing/completing what they already have | 22:23 |
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| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1630832 | 22:24 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1630832 in neutron "[RFE] FWaaS: Using Netlink instead of conntrack-tools to improve performance" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:24 |
| kevinbenton | I think we can switch this one to approved | 22:24 |
| kevinbenton | it needs some code cleanups that are being worked on | 22:24 |
| armax | do you know who is going to work on i? | 22:24 |
| kevinbenton | but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the idea | 22:25 |
| armax | it? | 22:25 |
| kevinbenton | yeah, Ha Van Tu is working on it | 22:25 |
| kevinbenton | patches already went in once | 22:25 |
| kevinbenton | we reverted because they had some stability issues | 22:25 |
| armax | I see | 22:25 |
| kevinbenton | and Cedric has been helping out stabalize it | 22:25 |
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| kevinbenton | any issues with me marking it as approved? | 22:26 |
| armax | no | 22:26 |
| ihrachys | no | 22:27 |
| kevinbenton | armax: what is the state machine for approved? | 22:27 |
| ihrachys | not even sure why it's RFE :) | 22:27 |
| kevinbenton | armax: remove rfe tag and add rfe-approved? | 22:27 |
| kevinbenton | armax: set to confirmed? | 22:27 |
| armax | OK | 22:27 |
| kevinbenton | armax: sacrifice a goat? | 22:27 |
| armax | I’ll create a BP for it | 22:27 |
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| ihrachys | kevinbenton: https://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/blueprints.html#neutron-request-for-feature-enhancements | 22:27 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: i can't read :'( | 22:28 |
| ihrachys | #sad | 22:28 |
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| kevinbenton | ok | 22:28 |
| armax | this is basically just using privsep though right? | 22:29 |
| kevinbenton | based on that we do remove the 'rfe' tag and add 'rfe-approved' right? | 22:29 |
| kevinbenton | armax: well it requires privsep | 22:29 |
| armax | if there are no API or architectural changes | 22:29 |
| kevinbenton | yeah, nothing visible to the user | 22:29 |
| armax | we might as well treat it as a regular bug | 22:29 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: yes, though I + the question from armax, not sure why the team cannot make the judgement themselves. | 22:29 |
| kevinbenton | it's replacing shelling out to conntrack | 22:29 |
| armax | with no BP involved | 22:30 |
| kevinbenton | with netlink calls | 22:30 |
| armax | I guess this was made RFE to err on the side of caution | 22:30 |
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| kevinbenton | yeah, it's a relatively large chunk of code | 22:30 |
| armax | but if there’s nothing user facing, with minimal deployment impact | 22:30 |
| armax | might as well be treated as a regular bug fix | 22:30 |
| kevinbenton | so it's somewhat invasive and needs effort to merge | 22:30 |
| dasm | how this rfe is different from ongoing efforts? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-ocata-privsep | 22:30 |
| kevinbenton | dasm: this depends on privsep | 22:30 |
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| kevinbenton | dasm: it's a particular privileged operation that will execute in a privsep context | 22:31 |
| armax | I’d say let’s track it as any other bug | 22:31 |
| dasm | isn't this similar to this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1492714 | 22:31 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1492714 in neutron "RFE: Pure Python driven Linux network configuration" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Omer Anson (omer-anson) | 22:31 |
| kevinbenton | dasm: that's another thing that would depend on privsep | 22:32 |
| armax | dasm: true, but that was more open ended | 22:32 |
| kevinbenton | dasm: using pyroute2 library | 22:32 |
| kevinbenton | dasm: this is particularly for conntrack calls | 22:32 |
| dasm | ack | 22:32 |
| kevinbenton | dasm: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437311/5/neutron_fwaas/privileged/netlink_lib.py | 22:32 |
| kevinbenton | it's not particularily trivial | 22:32 |
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| armax | btw does anyone now what is left for closing bug 1492714? | 22:33 |
| openstack | bug 1492714 in neutron "RFE: Pure Python driven Linux network configuration" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1492714 - Assigned to Omer Anson (omer-anson) | 22:33 |
| kevinbenton | i think it needs to be implemented :) | 22:33 |
| ihrachys | armax: I think it's pretty much everything | 22:33 |
| ihrachys | we converted a single function | 22:33 |
| ihrachys | that is not even used in production code | 22:33 |
| ihrachys | tests only | 22:33 |
| armax | oh boy | 22:33 |
| dasm | armax: Brian Haley started doing that. this one was first attempt, but got abandoned: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155631/ | 22:33 |
| kevinbenton | :) | 22:33 |
| kevinbenton | yeah, we have the scaffolding in place now so-to-speak | 22:34 |
| kevinbenton | we just need to start switching to pyroute2 calls | 22:34 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: I think there is agreement it's fine to give conntrack thingy a go, so let's approve, bug or RFE and let them move on | 22:34 |
| armax | aye aye | 22:34 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: yep. armax approved | 22:34 |
| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1630981 | 22:34 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1630981 in neutron "[rfe] Implement l2pop driver functionality in l2 agent" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:34 |
| kevinbenton | I would like to see this go in | 22:34 |
| kevinbenton | I can help with vxlan termination info going into binding | 22:35 |
| kevinbenton | Anil had started on working on mac address lookups from port info on the agent side | 22:35 |
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| kevinbenton | once we are referencing the port OVO for mac addresses and tunnel endpoints, l2pop can be shut off | 22:36 |
| ihrachys | + let's do it. a separate driver didn't make much sense ever. | 22:36 |
| ihrachys | and we have someone poking it | 22:36 |
| armax | kevinbenton: question | 22:36 |
| kevinbenton | also one of the most important performance impacts is the stupid state machine the agent puts the ports through when it restarts to trigger the l2pop code | 22:36 |
| armax | can the new solution and the l2pop driver coexist? | 22:37 |
| kevinbenton | ACTIVE->BUILD->ACTIVE | 22:37 |
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| kevinbenton | armax: yes | 22:37 |
| ihrachys | armax: for what? external consumers for RPC? | 22:37 |
| kevinbenton | armax: it will need to for backward compat between agent types at a minimum | 22:37 |
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| armax | I mean, can deployments still keep l2pop on the list of mech drivers? | 22:38 |
| kevinbenton | armax: yes | 22:38 |
| armax | OK, I think this needs a spec | 22:38 |
| armax | IMO | 22:38 |
| ihrachys | armax: keeping it a shallow no-op, or actually notifying? | 22:38 |
| ihrachys | + for the spec and we can proceed discussion there | 22:39 |
| armax | to capture some of the challenges that required to get this implemented | 22:39 |
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| armax | I am in favor of nuking l2pop | 22:39 |
| armax | but I do know that we need to figure out a graceful way to do it | 22:39 |
| armax | out of tree projects may rely on it | 22:39 |
| kevinbenton | armax: i don't intend on touching the driver | 22:40 |
| kevinbenton | armax: but we should deprecate and remove it | 22:40 |
| kevinbenton | armax: at some point | 22:40 |
| armax | I understand | 22:40 |
| ihrachys | or allow to move it somewhere outside if there are interested parties | 22:40 |
| armax | I wonder if the two will clash together if used in teh context of the same deployment | 22:40 |
| armax | but we can discuss this on the spec | 22:40 |
| kevinbenton | armax: no, new agents will ignore l2pop messages | 22:41 |
| kevinbenton | sure | 22:41 |
| kevinbenton | mark that it needs a spec | 22:41 |
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| armax | kevinbenton: right, that’s assumed you did the work correctly ;) | 22:41 |
| armax | kevinbenton: aye sir | 22:41 |
| kevinbenton | armax: discussing bugs isnt' really what a spec is for :) | 22:41 |
| armax | you’d be surprised | 22:42 |
| kevinbenton | i think the difficult part is actually going to be the DB migration | 22:42 |
| armax | how many feature requests are disguised as bug reports | 22:42 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: i will probably need your help figuring out a way to deal with that | 22:42 |
| ihrachys | noted | 22:43 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: new servers may need to dynamically calculated the null column before returning data | 22:43 |
| armax | #action armax to approve rfe 1630981 | 22:43 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: so a getter would have a setter | 22:43 |
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| kevinbenton | or always dynamically calculate until a switchover is performed | 22:43 |
| kevinbenton | we'll discuss on spec | 22:44 |
| armax | and a setter would have a getter? | 22:44 |
| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1632877 | 22:44 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1632877 in neutron "[RFE] Limits and Counts for SecGroup and FIPs" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Prince Nana Owusu Boateng (nanaboat) | 22:44 |
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| kevinbenton | there is a patch up for this | 22:45 |
| armax | if we mirror this just as the effort for IP capacity | 22:45 |
| kevinbenton | i don't have a link handy, but it seems reasonable | 22:45 |
| armax | kevinbenton: find it! | 22:45 |
| kevinbenton | armax: it's not even that complicated | 22:45 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: would be nice to see it in LP | 22:45 |
| armax | kevinbenton: agreed | 22:45 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: that's a separate API? | 22:45 |
| kevinbenton | it's just to ask for things that the quota engine arleady knows | 22:46 |
| kevinbenton | part of quota api | 22:46 |
| armax | OK, I’ll process this once you give me the patch # | 22:46 |
| kevinbenton | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383673/ | 22:46 |
| armax | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383673/34/neutron/plugins/ml2/plugin.py | 22:46 |
| armax | nooooooooooooo | 22:46 |
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| ihrachys | :)) | 22:47 |
| armax | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383673/34/neutron/extensions/quotasv2_detail.py | 22:47 |
| armax | nooooooooooooooooooo | 22:47 |
| kevinbenton | provide patch feedback | 22:47 |
| bzhao_ | / | 22:47 |
| kevinbenton | this doesn't have to do with the rfe though :) | 22:47 |
| armax | agreed | 22:47 |
| armax | I’ll get this straigthen out | 22:47 |
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| ihrachys | so + on the RFE? | 22:48 |
| armax | yes, we need an approver though | 22:48 |
| kevinbenton | i can be approver for that | 22:49 |
| armax | this is going to be a BP | 22:49 |
| asingh_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/348947/ this is the neutron spec for above patch | 22:49 |
| armax | kevinbenton: do you know what you’re doing | 22:49 |
| armax | ? | 22:49 |
| armax | asingh_: thanks! | 22:49 |
| kevinbenton | no | 22:49 |
| armax | kevinbenton: good | 22:49 |
| armax | let’s move on | 22:50 |
| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1633280 | 22:50 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1633280 in neutron "[RFE]need a way to disable anti-spoofing rules and yet keep security groups" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:50 |
| armax | oh that | 22:50 |
| armax | Even though I can see how this can be implemented | 22:51 |
| armax | I don’t fully understand the use case presented | 22:51 |
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| kevinbenton | wouldn't allowed address pairs work? | 22:52 |
| kevinbenton | just allow 0.0.0.0/0 | 22:52 |
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| kevinbenton | left a comment | 22:53 |
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| kevinbenton | let's revisit that one next week when they respond | 22:53 |
| armax | kevinbenton: ok | 22:53 |
| kevinbenton | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1639566 | 22:53 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1639566 in neutron "[RFE] Add support for local SNAT" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:53 |
| kevinbenton | I would like to see something done here | 22:54 |
| armax | I don't | 22:54 |
| ihrachys | I have no opinion since first time I see it | 22:54 |
| armax | this will crash and burn and we have no luxury to throw resources at the problem IMO | 22:54 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: essentially parity with nova network | 22:54 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: direct routing for snat as well | 22:55 |
| ihrachys | distributed dvr_snat? | 22:55 |
| armax | ihrachys: correct | 22:55 |
| armax | we kissed this goodbye when we went down the path of DVR+HA | 22:55 |
| armax | for SNAT | 22:55 |
| kevinbenton | not really | 22:56 |
| kevinbenton | they aren't related | 22:56 |
| armax | I see no reason on working on this now | 22:56 |
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| armax | after all the many years we talked about this very topic | 22:56 |
| kevinbenton | do you know why people keep asking for it? | 22:56 |
| armax | that’s not the point | 22:57 |
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| armax | just because people ask, you don’t just do | 22:57 |
| armax | people can be educated in doing the right thing :) | 22:58 |
| kevinbenton | it sounds to me like the reason we're not doing it is because of existing technical debt | 22:58 |
| armax | no | 22:58 |
| armax | that’s not it | 22:58 |
| armax | I think https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/decentralized-snat is emblematic | 22:58 |
| armax | and it was initiatd in 2014 | 22:58 |
| ihrachys | l3 solution already has a lot of moving parts and deployment options that we ourselves struggle to maintain (consider gate state for all those multinode tempest jobs), so I see why armax is concerned. | 22:59 |
| kevinbenton | right, so tech debt | 22:59 |
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| armax | of all the technical solutions proposed | 22:59 |
| armax | that one was not identified, time and time again, as the best compromise | 22:59 |
| armax | so I don’t understand why we keep coming back to it | 23:00 |
| armax | to me the case is closed, frankly | 23:00 |
| kevinbenton | because all of the other solutions don't solve a problem | 23:00 |
| armax | we’re at time | 23:00 |
| kevinbenton | and that is no centralized routing for SNAT | 23:00 |
| kevinbenton | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 16 23:00:46 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2017/neutron_drivers.2017-03-16-22.02.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2017/neutron_drivers.2017-03-16-22.02.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2017/neutron_drivers.2017-03-16-22.02.log.html | 23:00 |
| armax | and we’ll never reach consensus | 23:00 |
| armax | ever | 23:00 |
| armax | personally I am a reject for that one | 23:01 |
| kevinbenton | armax: if you provide a clear reason, that would be fine | 23:01 |
| kevinbenton | so far it seems like we're avoiding it because of complexity | 23:01 |
| armax | I just did | 23:01 |
| kevinbenton | if that's it, that's fine as well | 23:01 |
| armax | what else do you need/ | 23:02 |
| armax | ? | 23:02 |
| kevinbenton | armax: there is no solution to eliminate centralized SNAT | 23:02 |
| kevinbenton | armax: the 'compromises' above just skipped that problem | 23:03 |
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| armax | distributing SNAT will lead to IP burn | 23:03 |
| armax | if the solution is unasuble, what’s point in implementing it? | 23:03 |
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| armax | the SNAT HA solution eliminates the centralized SNAT issue | 23:04 |
| armax | as there’s redundancy and load sharing | 23:05 |
| kevinbenton | armax: a network with 50 VMs will always bottleneck even in ha case | 23:05 |
| kevinbenton | armax: and burning IPs isn't a problem in many private clouds | 23:05 |
| armax | if those 50 VMs land on the same host you or two you have the same problem :) | 23:06 |
| armax | I suppose the bug author said he has code for it | 23:07 |
| armax | we can ask him to propose a diff against Pike and assess the damage | 23:07 |
| kevinbenton | armax: that's fine. When the bottleneck of traffic is the host the VMs are on, that's ideal usage | 23:07 |
| armax | if there’s any | 23:07 |
| kevinbenton | armax: I would like to at least evaluate it | 23:08 |
| armax | what about applying traffic policies consistently? | 23:08 |
| kevinbenton | armax: what does that mean? | 23:08 |
| armax | like VPN or FW, services that typically are applied centrally | 23:09 |
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| armax | there | 23:09 |
| armax | ’s no harm in asking the submitter to propose the code against piek | 23:10 |
| armax | pike | 23:10 |
| armax | but if it’s poorly written and badly tested | 23:10 |
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| armax | then who is going to put the effort in putting it in the right shape? | 23:10 |
| kevinbenton | So it's just like every other feature then | 23:11 |
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| armax | what do you mean? | 23:12 |
| armax | flexibility is great | 23:12 |
| armax | I don’t disagree, but generally that comes at a cost | 23:12 |
| kevinbenton | armax: we evaluate each features implementation | 23:13 |
| kevinbenton | If it sucks, we don't merge if it's going to destabilize existing stuff | 23:13 |
| armax | true, in this case the submitter might have already done the work | 23:14 |
| armax | not sure how willing he is to forward-port with no promise of inclusion | 23:14 |
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| armax | especially taken into consideration the history of rejections | 23:15 |
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| armax | kevinbenton: please, feel free to update the bug report and see what happens | 23:15 |
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| kevinbenton | armax: is that a threat? :) | 23:29 |
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