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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 03:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-09-20_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
| shubhams | Shubham Kumar Sharma | 03:00 |
| eliqiao | eliqiao | 03:00 |
| Wenzhi | Wenzhi | 03:00 |
| mkrai | o/ | 03:00 |
| kevinz | o/ | 03:00 |
| adisky | aditi | 03:00 |
| yanyanhu | hello | 03:00 |
| Vivek_Jain | Vivek Jain | 03:00 |
| yuanying | Otsuka, Motohiro | 03:01 |
| hongbin | Thanks for joining hte meeting Namrata shubhams eliqiao Wenzhi mkrai kevinz adisky yanyanhu Vivek_Jain yuanying | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | I have no announcement | 03:01 |
| hongbin | anyone else has? | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | none | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Nova integration (Namrata) | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354553/ The proposed spec | 03:02 |
| hongbin | Namrata: ^^ | 03:02 |
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| Namrata | hi | 03:02 |
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| Namrata | was reading the comments about the fate of nova docker | 03:03 |
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| Namrata | not sure what should i do next | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | Namrata: maybe give the team a summary of the status | 03:03 |
| hongbin | and brief what comments you got from the reviewers | 03:04 |
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| Namrata | okay | 03:04 |
| Namrata | i havent read the comments yest | 03:05 |
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| Namrata | yest | 03:05 |
| Namrata | can we discuss this in open meeting | 03:05 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:05 |
| hongbin | then, talk this topic | 03:06 |
| hongbin | next one | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #topic Support interactive mode | 03:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:06 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode | 03:06 |
| hongbin | the proposal is about whether to support interactive mode for container | 03:06 |
| hongbin | for example, in docker, users can enter a container with : docker run -it ubuntu /bin/bash | 03:07 |
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| hongbin | i am thinking whether it makes sense for zun | 03:07 |
| hongbin | to support the same | 03:07 |
| hongbin | thoughts? | 03:07 |
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| yanyanhu | hongbin, one question is how it is done for container created in remote host? | 03:08 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: sudipta asked the same question at the last meeting | 03:08 |
| yanyanhu | ^ | 03:08 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: i don't know how right now, this needs investigation | 03:08 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 03:08 |
| hongbin | i know swarm / k8s did it | 03:08 |
| hongbin | just need to investigate how these COE did it | 03:09 |
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| yanyanhu | so the problem become what kind of interface this interaction is done through | 03:09 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 03:10 |
| hongbin | i see | 03:10 |
| hongbin | ok, this bp needs a volunteer to investigate | 03:10 |
| hongbin | let me know if anyone interest to take the bp | 03:10 |
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| adisky | i will investigate | 03:11 |
| hongbin | adisky: thx | 03:11 |
| hongbin | #action adisky investigate how to support interactive mode to enter container | 03:11 |
| adisky | :) | 03:11 |
| hongbin | adisky: thanks for your volunteer | 03:11 |
| hongbin | ok, next one | 03:12 |
| hongbin | #topic Container image store | 03:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:12 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration | 03:12 |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image | 03:12 |
| hongbin | mkrai: flwang ^^ | 03:12 |
| flwang | o/ | 03:12 |
| mkrai | I and shubhams did discussion last week | 03:12 |
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| mkrai | And we feel option 3 is best solution for it that is supporting both glance, docker hub and registry | 03:13 |
| mkrai | As glare and glance both doesn't fit in our requirements | 03:13 |
| hongbin | mkrai: maybe a brief recap of what is option 3? | 03:13 |
| mkrai | Additionally we feel that we can have a new resource in Zun that is repo which can be used to manage resources | 03:13 |
| mkrai | Yes sure hongbin | 03:14 |
| flwang | yep, what's the option 3? | 03:14 |
| shubhams | Option#3 is to use glance | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Option #3 explains that we support all 3 possible options to store images that is glance, docker hub and docker registry | 03:14 |
| mkrai | And repo will be selected based on namespaces | 03:15 |
| flwang | shubhams: mkrai: seems what you're talking are different | 03:15 |
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| shubhams | flwang : no no , I was talking the same but didnt write my second statement as mkrai finished it :) | 03:16 |
| shubhams | Basically in last meeting we discussed that we should have repositories for different use cases | 03:17 |
| flwang | for docker hub and docker registry, seems clear and straightforward | 03:17 |
| flwang | could you pls explain the glance part? | 03:17 |
| shubhams | OK. | 03:17 |
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| mkrai | flwang, We haven't looked on how we gonna support layering in glance | 03:17 |
| hongbin | the layering can be a future work (i think) | 03:18 |
| mkrai | But yes for first use case that is just storage of image, we do it same way as nova-docker does | 03:18 |
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| mkrai | That is storing tar file of images | 03:18 |
| flwang | does that mean we don't need any change of glance? | 03:19 |
| mkrai | What I feel is that it depends on operator and their use case | 03:19 |
| flwang | because seems like it's just a normal simple glance user case | 03:19 |
| mkrai | If they need layering they should go for later two options | 03:20 |
| mkrai | Yes flwang | 03:20 |
| mkrai | Do you feel is it feasible to support such features in glance? | 03:20 |
| flwang | mkrai: it's very hard to do in glance, because it's like implement a git/version control system in glance | 03:20 |
| flwang | you know what i mean | 03:21 |
| mkrai | Glance is just for managing VM images so they will not support features like layering | 03:21 |
| mkrai | Yes flwang that's what I am saying | 03:21 |
| flwang | mkrai: you got it :) | 03:21 |
| mkrai | And glare aims to do it but nothing has been done yet | 03:21 |
| mkrai | So of course we can support glare when it has the support | 03:22 |
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| mkrai | Thoughts? | 03:22 |
| adisky | agreed with you mkrai | 03:22 |
| flwang | IIUC, even glare supports the layering, it does still need to work with glance to provide the whole image serivce flow | 03:22 |
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| mkrai | Glare don't have the layering support yet | 03:23 |
| mkrai | Glare also aims to support multiple backend like docker hub and registry | 03:23 |
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| hongbin | i think we need to get the tar file working first, don't think we need to worry the layering for now | 03:25 |
| mkrai | Yes hongbin I totally agree | 03:25 |
| mkrai | That I and shubhams will do it this week | 03:25 |
| mkrai | Do a PoC to check tar support in glance for container images | 03:26 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i think the key we discussed at the previous meeting is how to support both glance and docker hub at the same time | 03:26 |
| mkrai | Namespaces, isn't it? | 03:26 |
| hongbin | mkrai: ok | 03:26 |
| mkrai | Namespace is a prefix to the images like glance/busybox | 03:26 |
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| mkrai | hongbin, Also what do you feel about new repo resource? | 03:27 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i think both sudipta and yanyanhu challenged this approach | 03:27 |
| mkrai | I see | 03:27 |
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| mkrai | sudipto, Hi | 03:28 |
| sudipto | mkrai, hello, extremely sorry for being late. | 03:28 |
| mkrai | We are discussing about the namespaces feature with container image | 03:28 |
| sudipto | Sure. | 03:28 |
| mkrai | Do you have any concern on it? | 03:28 |
| mkrai | yanyanhu, ^^ | 03:28 |
| yanyanhu | hi, mkrai, for new repo resources? | 03:29 |
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| mkrai | No yanyanhu | 03:30 |
| mkrai | i think both sudipta and yanyanhu challenged the approach of namespaces | 03:30 |
| mkrai | Namespace is a prefix to the images like glance/busybox | 03:30 |
| yanyanhu | ah, I recalled. | 03:30 |
| mkrai | Will be needed to support both glance and docker hub at the same time | 03:31 |
| yanyanhu | I thought we should try different repos with sequence | 03:31 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. glance first, than docker hub, etc. | 03:31 |
| mkrai | yanyanhu, I feel user should have power to pick any repo | 03:31 |
| yanyanhu | yes, mkrai, agree with this | 03:32 |
| mkrai | Also your implementation will incur extra time | 03:32 |
| shubhams | yanyanhu : I agree with you but what about giving this choice to admin like : I want to pull from docker hub or I want to pull from glance or local repo | 03:32 |
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| mkrai | Look into glance, then look into docker hub etc | 03:32 |
| yanyanhu | so should not be completely automatic choosing | 03:32 |
| mkrai | shubhams, +1 | 03:32 |
| yanyanhu | if user provides namespace, we should follow it | 03:32 |
| yanyanhu | makes sense to me | 03:33 |
| hongbin | flwang: you get the idea of namespace? | 03:33 |
| sudipto | It all depends on what we eventually want to achieve too. Do we want to support an orchestration engine based out of docker (let's say something like k8s or swarm) - and we eventually want to use their templates. In such cases you would have to change it to work with zun. That's all was my concern. | 03:33 |
| yanyanhu | but we should not enforce user to provide namespace prefix, right? | 03:33 |
| shubhams | yanyanhu : so you want to say that : if user has not asked an imnage for any specific repo then zun be able to judge and fetch it (based on our priorities/order) ? | 03:34 |
| yanyanhu | yes, shubhams | 03:34 |
| yanyanhu | priorities can be configured in zun.conf maybe | 03:34 |
| sudipto | well i think them middle ground could be - you ask the user to explicitly specify it - if they want a specific repo - else it can go to the default repo order and pick up stuff. | 03:34 |
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| sudipto | if i as a user specify glance/busy-box - it picks it up explicitly from glance. | 03:35 |
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| yanyanhu | sudipto, exactly | 03:35 |
| sudipto | However if i just say busy-box - and zun.conf has docker hub as the default registry - it goes and picks it up from docker hub. | 03:35 |
| mkrai | I think everyone has same opinion | 03:36 |
| yanyanhu | sudipto, yes, that priorities/order should be configurable | 03:36 |
| hongbin | ok, sounds good to me | 03:36 |
| sudipto | yanyanhu, agreed. | 03:36 |
| shubhams | sudipto: yanyanhu : I agree with your point | 03:36 |
| mkrai | Cool :) | 03:37 |
| Wenzhi | +1 | 03:37 |
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| hongbin | any other comment ? | 03:37 |
| shubhams | Now the question is : what we want to implement first : the scenario where user gives repo name explicitly or the one where zun decides about from where to pick the image from | 03:37 |
| eliqiao | pick the repo user specified first then use default. | 03:38 |
| sudipto | eliqiao, +1 | 03:38 |
| eliqiao | maybe configured on zun.conf. | 03:38 |
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| hongbin | #agree support multiple repo with namespaces, make default repo configurable | 03:39 |
| mkrai | I guess let's support glance first, then docker hub with namespaces support | 03:39 |
| yanyanhu | agree with mkrai since that means we start from the simplest one | 03:39 |
| sudipto | Just to also let you know - right now docker hub itself does not support a universal image format. So for example - if i specify something like busy-box/ppc64le - it will go and map it to the ppc64le namespace on docker hub - otherwise get a x86 based image. | 03:40 |
| yanyanhu | namespaces is meaningful only after multiple image backends are supported | 03:40 |
| sudipto | so there's already some bit of namespacing in docker hub - with respect to CPU arch. | 03:40 |
| shubhams | suipto : good to know about that | 03:40 |
| sudipto | But I think, we can take care of that under the hood. as in if the user requests a glance image from a compute node based on CPU arch X - we only go and fetch that image. | 03:41 |
| sudipto | which applies to arch X. | 03:41 |
| sudipto | instead of asking the user to specify something ugly like glance/busy-box/ppc64le or glance/busy-box/arm | 03:41 |
| sudipto | do you guys agree? | 03:42 |
| hongbin | yes, could be done later | 03:42 |
| sudipto | same goes for the normal case too - if the user specifies busy-box (and it expects zun to take care of everything) - then we should be able to determine the arch of the compute node and request the image as per from docker hub | 03:43 |
| mkrai | Yeah that makes sense sudipto | 03:43 |
| hongbin | ok, let's advance topic now | 03:43 |
| sudipto | I am just looking at a few value adds we can give on top of the docker-registry...anyway yes - it would be an implementation detail we can sort out later. | 03:43 |
| hongbin | there is one more topic to discuss | 03:44 |
| hongbin | #topic Container network | 03:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container network (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:44 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration The BP | 03:44 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/ The proposed spec | 03:44 |
| hongbin | does anyone has a chance to look at the spec? | 03:44 |
| hongbin | or maybe i can summary it here | 03:45 |
| mkrai | I had a look | 03:45 |
| hongbin | the proposal is about to introduce another concept called "sandbox" | 03:45 |
| eliqiao | so sandbox is just a logic name? | 03:45 |
| hongbin | a sandbox is actually a docker container | 03:45 |
| hongbin | the zun container will sort of run inside a sandbox | 03:46 |
| hongbin | so there are two containers | 03:46 |
| hongbin | a sandbox container and a zun container | 03:46 |
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| hongbin | the zun container is requested by end-user to create | 03:47 |
| mkrai | Is it zun container inside sandbox container? | 03:47 |
| hongbin | mkrai: yes and no | 03:47 |
| hongbin | the zun container will join the Linux namespaces of the sandbox container | 03:47 |
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| hongbin | in particular, using these options on docker run | 03:48 |
| hongbin | ``--net=container:<sandbox>``, ``--ipc=container:<sandbox>`` | 03:48 |
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| hongbin | ``--pid=container:<sandbox>`` and/or ``--volumes-from=<sandbox>`` | 03:48 |
| eliqiao | what about the performance? | 03:48 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: let me explain the performance a little | 03:48 |
| hongbin | since i am going to propose to use nova to provision sandbox, the performance is the nova | 03:49 |
| hongbin | so, sandbox is provisioned by nova | 03:49 |
| hongbin | zun container is provisioned by zun | 03:49 |
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| hongbin | the point is to reuse nova to do whatever nova provided (neutron ports, scheduling, etc.) | 03:50 |
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| mkrai | And that can be reused by Nova's sandbox? | 03:51 |
| hongbin | sandbox is like a vm, it has networking, volumes, resource constraints, etc. | 03:51 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i guess yes | 03:51 |
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| eliqiao | hongbin: I get | 03:51 |
| hongbin | thoughts? | 03:52 |
| eliqiao | but kinds of waste for create an sandbox | 03:52 |
| mkrai | hongbin, I think this will have resource overhead of having 2x containers | 03:52 |
| sudipto | I do feel that the sandbox is the step in the right direction because that's how most of the container orchestration engines too are working. | 03:52 |
| Wenzhi | I think this approach is reasonable, just like 'join' network mode in docker, and we can avoid copy networking code from Nova | 03:52 |
| eliqiao | so they are only sharing one port? | 03:52 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: yes, the ports are shared | 03:52 |
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| hongbin | defnitlely, i agree there is performance overhead | 03:53 |
| mkrai | This sandbox container will not be public | 03:53 |
| eliqiao | what's the sandbox looks like, what's image it using? | 03:53 |
| hongbin | mkrai: no, it is internal | 03:53 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: like a 'pause' image used by k8s | 03:54 |
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| hongbin | eliqiao: an empty docker image that is keep running | 03:54 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: and doesn't do anything real | 03:54 |
| mkrai | hongbin, I like the idea but we have to write a driver for Zun to create this containers? | 03:54 |
| eliqiao | get, thx. | 03:54 |
| eliqiao | mkrai: Nova will creat that, hongbin? | 03:55 |
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| hongbin | mkrai: yes, the sandbox needs to be implemented in zun by a driver | 03:55 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: yes, nova is responsible to create the sandbox | 03:55 |
| mkrai | Will nova-integration bp help there? | 03:55 |
| hongbin | maybe | 03:56 |
| hongbin | however, the nova-integation bp is about using nova api to manage container | 03:56 |
| hongbin | my proposal is about using nova api to mange sandboxes | 03:56 |
| hongbin | which is two independent ideas | 03:57 |
| mkrai | Yeah we can revisit the nova-integration bp keeoing this use case in mind | 03:57 |
| hongbin | sure | 03:57 |
| hongbin | any other comment ? | 03:58 |
| mkrai | I will provide my comments on spec | 03:58 |
| hongbin | mkrai: thx | 03:58 |
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| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:59 | |
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| hongbin | last meeting comment ? | 03:59 |
| hongbin | last minutes | 03:59 |
| mkrai | Time is up :) | 03:59 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:59 |
| hongbin | all, thanks for joining the meeting | 03:59 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:59 |
| adisky | i want to discuss about cinder integration in next meeting | 03:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 03:59:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:59 |
| sudipto | Thank you, and sorry about being late. | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-20-03.00.html | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-20-03.00.txt | 03:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-20-03.00.log.html | 03:59 |
| hongbin | adisky: sure | 03:59 |
| hongbin | sudipto: np at all | 04:00 |
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| adisky | :) | 04:00 |
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| yamamot__ | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 07:01:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamot__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:01 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Agenda | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:01 | |
| yamamot__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:02 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Announcements | 07:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:02 | |
| yamamot__ | no announcements from me | 07:02 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Bugs | 07:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:02 | |
| yamamot__ | no critical bugs i'm aware of | 07:02 |
| yamamot__ | although i haven't checked the status this week yet | 07:02 |
| yamamot__ | i'll continue the bug deputy role as usual | 07:03 |
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| yamamot__ | #topic Open Discussion | 07:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:03 | |
| yamamot__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370585/ | 07:04 |
| yamamot__ | i'm going to make ml2 the primary dev target. | 07:04 |
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| yamamot__ | if anyone has concerns, please raise it, either online or offline. | 07:05 |
| * yamamot__ waiting for a few mins before closing the meeting | 07:05 | |
| amotoki | one person meeting ? | 07:05 |
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| yamamot__ | amotoki: exactly :-) | 07:05 |
| amotoki | :) | 07:06 |
| yamamot__ | but now two :-) | 07:06 |
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| liuyulong | hi | 07:10 |
| yamamot__ | hi | 07:11 |
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| liuyulong | I have a patch may have side effects to midonet, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372298/ | 07:11 |
| liuyulong | If you midonet guys have time, please take a look, thank you very much. | 07:11 |
| yamamot__ | liuyulong: thank you. i'll take a look. | 07:11 |
| yamamot__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372298/ | 07:11 |
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| amotoki | Although the master branch has been open for Ocata, we are still careful on refactoring patches | 07:13 |
| amotoki | because it makes backport to newton difficult. | 07:13 |
| amotoki | but i think yamamot__ can validate the change :) | 07:14 |
| liuyulong | amotoki, yep, thank you. : ) | 07:14 |
| yamamot__ | amotoki: i don't think he's asking to merge it immediately. :-) and anyway it has armax's -2 | 07:14 |
| amotoki | yeah | 07:15 |
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| yamamot__ | let me skip the next meeting (Dec 4) as i have some conflicting schedule | 07:16 |
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| * yamamot__ waiting for another few mins before closing meeting. ie. having coffee | 07:17 | |
| liuyulong | yamamot__, you are YAMAMOTO Takashi? right? I think I've already added you as a reviewer to that patch. : ) | 07:18 |
| yamamot__ | liuyulong: yes i am | 07:18 |
| yamamot__ | i think i missed gerrit notification mail for that though. :-) | 07:19 |
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| yamamot__ | #info next meeting (Dec 4) will be cancelled | 07:21 |
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| yamamot__ | ok, i think we've done | 07:24 |
| yamamot__ | thank you for attending | 07:24 |
| yamamot__ | bye | 07:24 |
| yamamot__ | #endmeeting | 07:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:24 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 07:24:40 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:24 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-09-20-07.01.html | 07:24 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-09-20-07.01.txt | 07:24 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-09-20-07.01.log.html | 07:24 |
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| liuyulong | thank you, bye | 07:25 |
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| eranrom | #startmeeting storlets | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 08:00:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storlets' | 08:00 |
| kota_ | yey | 08:00 |
| eranrom | Hi | 08:00 |
| takashi | hi | 08:00 |
| eranrom | :-) | 08:00 |
| eranrom | Lets start! Agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Storlets | 08:00 |
| eranrom | do you want to add anything? | 08:00 |
| takashi | I'll talk little about python package in 2nd topic | 08:01 |
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| kota_ | looks good to me on the agenda | 08:01 |
| eranrom | ok. | 08:02 |
| takashi | but no big change is needed | 08:02 |
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| kota_ | i thought to add my multiinput thing but it exists in :D | 08:02 |
| eranrom | :-) | 08:02 |
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| eranrom | takashi: So I take it there are no python updates other then package - right? | 08:03 |
| kota_ | eranrom: and i think, i and takashi should be today's meeting quickly beause, a big typhoon is comming to Japan | 08:03 |
| takashi | kota_: yes :-( | 08:03 |
| eranrom | wow. sure. do you want to cancel? | 08:03 |
| kota_ | eranrom: so we should be back home as soon as possible | 08:03 |
| takashi | eranrom: you mean, python storlet, right? | 08:03 |
| eranrom | right. | 08:04 |
| kota_ | eranrom: no worries, we can do maybe ,that comes to early moning tmorrow | 08:04 |
| eranrom | but seems we best end now. | 08:04 |
| takashi | np for me. I was thinking to go back home after this meeting. :-) | 08:04 |
| kota_ | takashi: me too! | 08:04 |
| takashi | it is not hard wearther now | 08:05 |
| eranrom | alright so lets be quick. | 08:05 |
| takashi | go back to python storlet thing | 08:05 |
| eranrom | #topic Big tent work | 08:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Big tent work (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:05 | |
| eranrom | takashi: its all yours | 08:05 |
| takashi | just a little about python storlet. I still need to work about docs, but still need to take some time for that | 08:05 |
| takashi | and about big tent | 08:06 |
| takashi | I submitted the patch for python packaging, patch 370332 | 08:06 |
| takashi | In this patch, we can install all things, including java codes and c codes using simply calling python setup.py | 08:06 |
| takashi | 370332 | 08:07 |
| takashi | sorry, this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370332/ | 08:07 |
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| takashi | I'm still trying to find what is the best practice to do so, but I hope I don't need so big change from current one | 08:07 |
| eranrom | ok, Is it switll WIP? | 08:07 |
| takashi | eranrom: At least I need to fix ansible script, based on the change | 08:08 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok gotcha. So I will start looking | 08:08 |
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| takashi | eranrom: At first, I'd like to ask some feadback about new directory structure. | 08:09 |
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| eranrom | ok. The current structure can sure use some refactoring... | 08:09 |
| eranrom | #action eranrom to first look at the dir structure | 08:10 |
| takashi | Currently I'm checking if it is really good idea to merge java codes installation totally to setup.py | 08:10 |
| takashi | As far as I check monasca, which also has python codes and java codes, they have independent maven setting only for install java codes | 08:11 |
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| takashi | but about directory structure I basically follow some existing projects which have java/c codes | 08:12 |
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| eranrom | takashi: ok. Do you think that we will need to switch from ant to maven? (not now) | 08:13 |
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| takashi | eranrom: I don't know so much about maven, but it makes sense to me at some points. Maven seems to be used generally | 08:14 |
| takashi | but currently ant is enough for us | 08:14 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok. | 08:14 |
| eranrom | takashi: anything else on the topic? | 08:14 |
| takashi | eranrom: nothing from my side | 08:15 |
| eranrom | ok. Lets defer the discussion on big tent and switch to long lasting patches. | 08:15 |
| eranrom | #topic Long existing patches | 08:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Long existing patches (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:16 | |
| eranrom | kota_: all yours | 08:16 |
| kota_ | k | 08:16 |
| kota_ | the first thing multiinput | 08:16 |
| kota_ | this morning, I was working on rebasing/addressing for takashi's comment | 08:17 |
| kota_ | the rebasing succeeded, the patch got +1 from jenkins at the gerrit | 08:17 |
| kota_ | in the perspective for takash's comment, I think only one thing is remaining to discuss | 08:18 |
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| kota_ | what I didn't get yet | 08:18 |
| kota_ | takashi: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347258/23/Engine/swift/storlet_gateway/gateways/docker/runtime.py@582 this one. | 08:18 |
| takashi | kota_: ok | 08:18 |
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| takashi | kota_: When I checked the code, I noticed you don't pass metadata of extra sources from gateway to sdaemon | 08:20 |
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| kota_ | from extra resourcces? | 08:21 |
| takashi | yes | 08:21 |
| takashi | kota_: Currently metadata of input object is included in the metadata of the read fd of input object | 08:21 |
| kota_ | and you mean user metadata of extra objects | 08:22 |
| takashi | kota_: right | 08:22 |
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| kota_ | takashi: good point. maybe just my lazy implementation | 08:23 |
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| takashi | kota_: IMO we need to refactor DockerRequest somehow to manage multiple input | 08:23 |
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| takashi | kota_: so I currently just make sure it is intended or not | 08:23 |
| takashi | just want to make sure | 08:24 |
| kota_ | takashi: exactly it might be useful to include user meta, just it was unecessary for my use case. | 08:24 |
| eranrom | do you want to have it as a follow on or not (I am good with both) | 08:25 |
| kota_ | either is fine to me, to do in the patch or later though. if we try to address right now, I need to update some functional tests to assert it | 08:25 |
| takashi | kota_: I'm also good with both | 08:26 |
| eranrom | kota_: takashi: What do you say about: | 08:26 |
| eranrom | 1. land it now (unless there are other issues) | 08:26 |
| eranrom | 2. have a doc update patch that specifies user metadata of extra resources is not available | 08:26 |
| eranrom | 3. follow on patch that adds yuser metadata to code and doc | 08:27 |
| eranrom | s/yuser/user | 08:27 |
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| takashi | eranrom: maybe we do not have paticular order about 2 and 3 | 08:28 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok with me | 08:28 |
| eranrom | Its just that I would like the doc updated sooner then later... | 08:28 |
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| eranrom | but its not a big deal anyway. | 08:29 |
| eranrom | Also, I can help with the doc. | 08:29 |
| kota_ | yey, that definately helps me :) | 08:30 |
| eranrom | kota_: with pleasure | 08:30 |
| eranrom | anything else on this topic? | 08:31 |
| takashi | about multi input? | 08:31 |
| eranrom | yes | 08:31 |
| * kota_ is thinking we can move to the next | 08:32 | |
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| kota_ | ok, on the next thing for long exiting patches | 08:34 |
| eranrom | Improve file_manager: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349834/ | 08:35 |
| eranrom | takashi: you still here? | 08:35 |
| kota_ | yes | 08:35 |
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| kota_ | but nothing progress, I need more time for rebasing and consideration with current master. | 08:35 |
| takashi | last week I rebased the patch to validate file_manager option, to prevent unsafe status at least | 08:35 |
| kota_ | maybe, I can take a time to work on that after Newton Swift released | 08:36 |
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| eranrom | kota_: Just curious, when is the release planned for? | 08:37 |
| kota_ | eranrom: notmyname is planning around this week (he said in the swift meeting) | 08:37 |
| eranrom | kota_: ok, thanks | 08:38 |
| takashi | As far as I know about other projects, Oct 5 seems to be a deadline | 08:38 |
| kota_ | in the last meeting | 08:38 |
| takashi | https://releases.openstack.org/ | 08:38 |
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| takashi | It seems that Oct 6 is Newton release data | 08:39 |
| kota_ | looking at SwiftPriority reviews https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews, it's close to cut a release (almost priority patches have been landed) | 08:39 |
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| eranrom | ok thanks. Takashi, would the python packaging work cause a painful merge to the file manager stuff? | 08:40 |
| takashi | eranrom: I tested some rebasing this week, and I already confirmed the way to rebase my package patch | 08:40 |
| takashi | eranrom: so I don't think so | 08:40 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok, greate! | 08:41 |
| eranrom | great! | 08:41 |
| eranrom | So anything else on this? | 08:41 |
| takashi | eranrom: just a thing. I saw you had some discussion about design summit slot in dev ml. | 08:41 |
| takashi | sorry not on this. should be talked in open discussion | 08:42 |
| eranrom | takashi: yes. I think that the 'math' is not done yet, and Thierry is still gathering information. | 08:42 |
| takashi | eranrom: ok | 08:42 |
| kota_ | eranrom: nice | 08:43 |
| eranrom | If I do not hear from him, I will ask later this week. | 08:44 |
| ttx | eranrom: so far we have more requests than we have available free slots | 08:44 |
| ttx | So I don't think you would end up with more than one | 08:44 |
| ttx | but then you can use it as a gathering point and then meet up in the hallway somewhere :) | 08:44 |
| eranrom | ttx: I was afraid this is the situation. Thanks anyway. | 08:44 |
| ttx | I expect teams to liberate some slots later this week though | 08:44 |
| ttx | I'll keep you posted anyway | 08:45 |
| eranrom | sure, I think that fb is what we are really after. We are a small team and will find a space to do the workings. | 08:45 |
| eranrom | ttx: Thanks very much! | 08:45 |
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| ttx | so far nobody released a fishbowl | 08:45 |
| ttx | those are precious :) | 08:45 |
| eranrom | ttx: I see. ok | 08:45 |
| ttx | Will try to give it to you if I get one | 08:46 |
| eranrom | ttx: Thanks! | 08:46 |
| eranrom | ok, so lets move on. | 08:46 |
| eranrom | #topic open discussion | 08:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:46 | |
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| eranrom | From my side, would be happy if someone looked at the recent storlet acl patch | 08:47 |
| takashi | eranrom: will have a look. I saw you updated your bp | 08:47 |
| eranrom | takashi: Thanks. I wanted to have it in two patches, but ended up with one as I have changed course during the implementation. | 08:48 |
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| eranrom | Anyway the spec reflects the implementation | 08:48 |
| eranrom | Thanks! | 08:48 |
| takashi | eranrom: I see | 08:48 |
| eranrom | Anything else? | 08:49 |
| takashi | nothing from my side | 08:49 |
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| eranrom | Take care with the typhoon. How many time a year do you get one? | 08:50 |
| kota_ | nothing else for me. | 08:51 |
| kota_ | aproxymately 2-3 hit Japan for a year, this year is more than usual :/ | 08:51 |
| eranrom | I see. | 08:52 |
| takashi | we already have 5 for this year... | 08:52 |
| eranrom | wow. | 08:52 |
| eranrom | So do take care. | 08:52 |
| takashi | eranrom: thanks! | 08:52 |
| eranrom | Thank you very much for joining! | 08:52 |
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| takashi | thank you. | 08:52 |
| eranrom | Ending a few minutes earlier :-) | 08:53 |
| eranrom | #endmeeting | 08:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 08:53:11 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-20-08.00.html | 08:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-20-08.00.txt | 08:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-20-08.00.log.html | 08:53 |
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| yuval | #startmeeting karbor | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 09:00:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 09:00 |
| yuval | Hello everybody, welcome to Karbor weekly meeting | 09:00 |
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| yuval | anyone here for the karbor meeting? | 09:01 |
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| yuval | #endmeeting | 09:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 09:04:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:04 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-09.00.html | 09:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-09.00.txt | 09:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-09.00.log.html | 09:04 |
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| yanyanhu | #startmeeting senlin | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 13:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | hello | 13:01 |
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| elynn | Hi | 13:02 |
| guoshan | hi, all | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming will come soon | 13:02 |
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| yanyanhu | so lets go through the newton work item list first | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | this one | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | Performance test | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | no progress in last week I think | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | #topic newton workitem | 13:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton workitem (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:04 | |
| yanyanhu | about more senlin support in rally side, didn't get time to work on it recently | 13:05 |
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| yanyanhu | working on message type of receiver support in last two weeks | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | will resume the performance test work after this job is done | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | Health Management | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | I think Qiming has something to update. Lets skip this and wait him come back to update | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | Document, no progress I guess | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | container profile | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei is not here I think? | 13:07 |
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| yanyanhu | looks so. lets move on | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | Zaqar message type of receiver | 13:08 |
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| yanyanhu | I'm now working on it. The receiver creating part has been done, including queue/subscription creating, trust building between enduer and zaqar trustee user | 13:08 |
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| yanyanhu | and also api and rpc interface | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | now working on message notification handling | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/373004 | 13:09 |
| Qiming | o/ | 13:10 |
| elynn | zaqar trustee user is a configuration option in senlin.conf? | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, yes | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | it is configurable | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | since operator can define the trustee user in zaqar side as well | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | it is a configuration option stolen from oslo_config I think | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | although the default trustee user will be 'zaqar' | 13:10 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:11 |
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| yanyanhu | will well document this part to make it clear for user/operator | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | I'd suggest we don't add this kind of config options only to be deprecated/invalidated some day | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | that also depends on how zaqar support it | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | so will keep looking at it and talking with zaqar team to ensure our usage is correct | 13:12 |
| Qiming | sounds something negotiable | 13:13 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:13 |
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| yanyanhu | it now works as expected | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/373004 after applying this patch which is in progress | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | after creating a message type of receiver, user can trigger different actions on specific cluster by posting message to the message queue | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | the queue can be reused multiple times | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | util receiver is deleted | 13:16 |
| Qiming | need a tutorial doc on this, so that users know how to use it | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | s/util/until | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, absolutely | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | that is necessary | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | will work on it after basic support is done | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | cool, thx | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | my pleasure | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | so this is about the progress of message receiver | 13:17 |
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| yanyanhu | i, hQiming, we just skipped the HA topic, could you plz give the update on it. thanks | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | yep, there is a patch which need some eyes | 13:18 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369937/ | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | the only problem we found so far is about the context used when calling cluster_check | 13:19 |
| Qiming | the health manager will invoke cluster_check periodically using an admin context | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | an admin context is special, in that it has no meaningful fields except for the is_admin set to True | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:20 |
| Qiming | such a context will be referenced later in the action, and the action wants to record the requesting user/project | 13:20 |
| Qiming | which, in this case, are both None | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | an action having user/project set to None cannot be deserialized later because we strictly require all actions objects have user/project associated with it | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:21 |
| Qiming | xuefeng has helped proposed a fix to this. pls help review | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | maybe we should invoke cluster_check using senlin service context? | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, will check it | 13:22 |
| Qiming | service context has a different user/project | 13:22 |
| Qiming | it makes sense also | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | from the cluster owner | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | will think about it | 13:22 |
| Qiming | a service context is more appropriate imo | 13:22 |
| Qiming | more accurate | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | yes, since this action is actually done by senlin | 13:23 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:23 |
| Qiming | I've added something to the agenda today | 13:24 |
| Qiming | one thing is about desired capacity | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | ok, I noticed some recent changes are about it | 13:24 |
| Qiming | I'm still dealing with the last relevant action (CLUSTER_DEL_NODES) | 13:24 |
| Qiming | hopefully can get it done early tomorrow | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:25 |
| Qiming | the idea is to encourage such a usage scenario | 13:25 |
| Qiming | a user observes the current/actual capacity when examining a cluster | 13:25 |
| Qiming | the desired capacity means nothing, it is just an indicator of an ideal case | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | so the current logic is all desired_capacity recalculation will be done based on 'real' size of cluster when adding/deleting node to/from cluster | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | which cannot be satisfied most of the time in a dynamic environment I'm afraid | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | at the end of the day, users have to face the truth | 13:27 |
| Qiming | they need to know the actual/current capacity and make decisions about their next steps | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, it makes sense when the real size of cluster is different from desired_capacity | 13:27 |
| Qiming | actually, that is the logic behind our auto-scaling scenario | 13:27 |
| ruijie | Will senlin provide a cron or something to do health check automaticly? | 13:28 |
| Qiming | the metrics collected then used to trigger an auto-scaling operation are based on the actual nodes a cluster has | 13:28 |
| Qiming | that implies the triggering was a decision based on real capacity, not the desired capacity | 13:28 |
| Qiming | I'm trying to make things consistent across all actions related to cluster size changes | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, I think it's reasonable for node creating/deleting scenarios | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | but for cluster scaling/resizing scenarios, I'm not sure | 13:29 |
| Qiming | whenever an action is gonna change a cluster's size, it means the users are changing their new expectation, i.e. the new desired_capacity | 13:30 |
| Qiming | even after those operations are performed, you will still face two numbers: actual and desired | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | especially if we want to differentiate 'scaling' and 'recovering' | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:30 |
| Qiming | okay, I was talking about manual operations, without taking health policy into the picture | 13:31 |
| ruijie | My bad:) | 13:31 |
| Qiming | when health policy is attached, users will get more automation in keeping the actual number of nodes close to the desired number | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | there are some tricky cases to handle | 13:32 |
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| yanyanhu | Consider this case: a cluster desired_capacity is 5, its real size is 4, so it is not totally health now(maybe in warning status) | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | currently, the recover operation is not trying to create or delete nodes so that the cluster size matches that of the desired capacity | 13:32 |
| Qiming | yes, yanyan, that is a WARNING state | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | then user perform a cluster_scale_out operation(or node_add operation). If the desired_capacity is recalculated with real size, it will still be 5. | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | and a new node will be created/added | 13:33 |
| Qiming | as we gain more experiences on health policy usage, we can add options to the policy, teach it to do some automatic 'convergence' thing | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | then the cluster will switch to health status(active, e.g.) | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | yes, in that case, the cluster is healthy | 13:34 |
| Qiming | users new expectation is 5 nodes | 13:34 |
| Qiming | and he has got 5 | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, exactly, what I want to say is, if the desired_capacity is done using real size, cluster scaling could become kind of recovering operation | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | and will change the cluster's health status | 13:34 |
| Qiming | right | 13:34 |
| Qiming | sure | 13:34 |
| Qiming | that is an implication, very subtle one | 13:34 |
| Qiming | I was even thinking of a cluster_resize operation with no argument | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | so I think we may need to decide whether this kind of status switch is as expected | 13:35 |
| elynn | yanyanhu: actually I think user is expecting 6 if he do cluster_scale_out... | 13:35 |
| Qiming | that operation will virtually reset the cluster's status, delete all non-active nodes and re-evaluate the cluster's status | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, yes, that is something could confuse user | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | we may need to state it clearly | 13:36 |
| elynn | since desired_capacity is what he desired before and now he want to scale out... | 13:36 |
| Qiming | if we are chasing the desired capacity, we will never end the loop | 13:36 |
| Qiming | desired is always a 'dream' | 13:36 |
| Qiming | so to make that clear | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, if the new desired_capacity become 6. the cluster real size will be added to e.g. 5. and cluster will remain on warnning | 13:36 |
| Qiming | I'm proposing add a 'current_capacity' property to the cluster, automatically calculated at client side or before returning to client | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | but maybe this is what user want :) | 13:37 |
| ruijie | My be desired_capacity is 6, and real size is 5? And then use health policy to keep the cluster healthy | 13:37 |
| Qiming | exactly, you will never get your cluster status fixed | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | so I mean cluster status will only be shifted when user perform recovering operation | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | maybe | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | since it is health status related operation | 13:38 |
| elynn | so when user scale_out, cluster should do: 1. check cluster size 2. create nodes to desired_capacity now, which is 5 3. add new nodes to 6 | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | elynn, step 2 could faile, step 3 could fail | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, yes, that is kind of implicit self recovering | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | that is possible | 13:38 |
| Qiming | the only reliable status you can get is by automatically invoke the eval_status method after those operations | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | so maybe we only change the cluster's health status when user explicitly perform recovering operation? | 13:39 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:39 |
| elynn | If it failed, just show warning and change desired_capacity to 6. | 13:39 |
| Qiming | users will always know the 'desired' status, as he/she expressed previously, and the 'current' status, which is always a fact | 13:39 |
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| yanyanhu | eval_status is for that purpose | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | elynn, if there is no health policy, how would you make the cluster healthy? | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | so my thought is we keep cluster health status unchanged after cluster scaling/resizing/node_adding/deleting | 13:41 |
| Qiming | each time you want to add new nodes, you are pushing the desired capacity higher | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes. maybe manually perform cluster_recover? | 13:41 |
| Qiming | cluster_recover is not that reliable | 13:41 |
| elynn | could we provide an operation like cluster_heal? | 13:41 |
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| elynn | manual perform by users? | 13:42 |
| Qiming | and it is too complex to get it done right | 13:42 |
| Qiming | cluster_recover + cluster_heal ? | 13:42 |
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| elynn | hmm... yes, that will become more complex... | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | it is too complicated, maybe I haven't thought it through, but I did spent a lot time on balancing this | 13:43 |
| elynn | let's forget about cluster_heal, just cluster_recover. | 13:44 |
| Qiming | I was even creating a table on this ... | 13:44 |
| Qiming | any url to paste a pic? | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | understand your intention. just if cluster scaling doesnt change cluster desired_capacity, that is confused imho | 13:44 |
| elynn | SWOT? | 13:44 |
| Qiming | url | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | cluster scaling does change cluster's desired_capacity | 13:45 |
| Qiming | say if you have a cluster: desired=5, current=4 | 13:45 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:45 |
| Qiming | and you do scale-out by 2 | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | but if I scale out by 1, new desired will still be 5? | 13:46 |
| Qiming | the current explanation of that request is: users know there are 4 nodes in the cluster, he/she wants to add 2 | 13:46 |
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| elynn | then I get d=7, c=7 | 13:46 |
| Qiming | so the desired_capacity is changed to 6 | 13:46 |
| Qiming | and we create 2 nodes as user requested | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | if the desired is calculated with real size. then this scaling will actually become "recover" | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | it is not recover | 13:47 |
| Qiming | please read the recover logic | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | I mean for scale out 1 case | 13:47 |
| Qiming | it heals those nodes that are created | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, ah, yes, sorry I used wrong item | 13:47 |
| Qiming | it doesn't create new nodes | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | maybe cluster heal as ethan mentioned | 13:48 |
| Qiming | give me a url to paste pic pls | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | which will try to converge the cluster real size to desired one | 13:48 |
| elynn | why cluster recover can't create nodes? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | it is a limitation | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, currently, recover means recover a failed node | 13:48 |
| Qiming | we can improve it do do that | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | through recreating, rebuilding, e.g. | 13:48 |
| elynn | To me cluster recover should bring cluster back to heal, from its words... | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, +1 | 13:49 |
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| yanyanhu | just we haven't made it support creating node | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | maybe we can improve it as Qiming said | 13:49 |
| Qiming | http://picpaste.com/001-tvkIE5Aw.jpg | 13:49 |
| elynn | I just talk about the logic here...Not the implementation... | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | yes, go ahead think about changing the desired_capacity based on current desired_capacity then | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | see if you can fill the table with correct operations | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | in that picture, min_size is 1 desired is 2, max is 5 | 13:50 |
| Qiming | the first row contains (active)/(total) nodes you have in a cluster | 13:51 |
| Qiming | then you get a request from user | 13:51 |
| Qiming | tell me what you will do to keep the desired capacity a reality, or even near that number | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | so ... I was really frustrated at chasing desired_capacity in all these operations | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I think user will understand that the real size of cluster could be always different from their desired | 13:52 |
| Qiming | we should really let users know ... you have your clusters status accurately reported | 13:52 |
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| yanyanhu | for some reasons | 13:53 |
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| elynn | let me go through this table , it takes some time... | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | you make your decisions based on the real size, not the imaginative (desired) capacity | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | but once that happen, they need to recover their cluster to match the real size to desired | 13:53 |
| Qiming | that is an ideal case, senlin will do its best, but there will be no guarantee | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | that's why we call that opertion "recover" or "heal" | 13:53 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, what if recover fails | 13:54 |
| Qiming | I mean, fails in the middle | 13:54 |
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| yanyanhu | that could happen | 13:54 |
| Qiming | we cannot hide that | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | and it just means recovery failed | 13:54 |
| Qiming | the recover operation still cannot solve this problem | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | and user can try it again later maybe | 13:54 |
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| elynn | Qiming: let cluster show warning status? | 13:54 |
| Qiming | then why do we pretend we can achieve desired capacity at all? | 13:54 |
| elynn | And stop there.. | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, but I think no one can ensure that user can always get what they want, right | 13:55 |
| Qiming | yes, recovery operation fails, what's the cluster's status? | 13:55 |
| Qiming | so the logic is really simple | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | warning I think | 13:55 |
| Qiming | expose the current capacity to users | 13:55 |
| Qiming | let them do their decisions based on the real capacity | 13:56 |
| elynn | for example, d=5, c=4, scale_out=2 | 13:56 |
| Qiming | not the desired capacity | 13:56 |
| elynn | recover failed | 13:56 |
| elynn | d=7, c=4 | 13:56 |
| Qiming | the desired capacity has been proved to be a failure if you have 4 nodes created for a d=5 cluster | 13:56 |
| elynn | it's a warning status I think? | 13:56 |
| Qiming | how do you explain scale_out=2 ? | 13:56 |
| Qiming | user mean he want to create 7 nodes? | 13:57 |
| Qiming | why? | 13:57 |
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| ruijie | Qiming, maybe each action should just do what it should? and let other action or policy to keep the real_capacity=desired | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | scale_out=2 means the desired_capacity will increase 2 | 13:57 |
| elynn | user want to scale_out 2 nodes, he totally want 7 nodes here... | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | we even can't guarantee the 2 new nodes will be created correctly | 13:57 |
| Qiming | elynn, users already saw only 4 nodes in the cluster | 13:57 |
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| elynn | If he only want current nodes +2 ,then he should do recover first and then scale_out I think... | 13:58 |
| Qiming | alright, take a step back | 13:58 |
| Qiming | think about this | 13:58 |
| Qiming | you have d=3, c=2, then ceilometer triggers an autoscaling | 13:58 |
| Qiming | skip the user intervention for now | 13:58 |
| elynn | That's another scenario.... | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, that is also what I'm thinking actually | 13:58 |
| Qiming | what was that decision based? | 13:58 |
| elynn | that's based on actual nodes... | 13:59 |
| Qiming | why shouldn't we keep this consistent? | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, if user leave the bar to ceilometer, I think we can treat ceilometer as the user | 13:59 |
| Qiming | sigh ... | 13:59 |
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| elynn | that's the confused part... | 14:00 |
| Qiming | pls go through that table | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | umm, time is over... may keep on discussing it in senlin channel? | 14:00 |
| Qiming | you will realize what a problem we are facing | 14:00 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, I see. Will think about it and have more discussion on it | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | will end meeting | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 14:01:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-20-13.01.html | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-20-13.01.txt | 14:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-20-13.01.log.html | 14:01 |
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| yuval | #startmeeting karbor | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 14:59:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 14:59 |
| yuval | Hello everybody | 15:00 |
| yuval | Welcome to Karbor meeting | 15:00 |
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| yuval | Who's here for the Karbor meeting? | 15:01 |
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| zhonghua-lee | hi | 15:02 |
| saggi | Hi | 15:02 |
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| yuval | oh, hey saggi | 15:02 |
| saggi | Hi. On the phone. | 15:03 |
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| xiangxinyong | Hello | 15:03 |
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| yuval | Well, let's begin | 15:04 |
| yuval | #topic Dashboard Tasks | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dashboard Tasks (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:05 | |
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| yuval | I noticed there are a few things missing in dashboard | 15:05 |
| yuval | 1. we have no scheduled operations page | 15:05 |
| yuval | scheduled operations created for plans can not be deleted/edited | 15:05 |
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| yuval | 2. pages displaying objects, such as checkpoint page, trigger page, etc, do not update the objects statuses | 15:07 |
| yuval | if a checkpoint is being created, it will stay so until the page is refreshed | 15:07 |
| yuval | 3. you can not edit a plan | 15:07 |
| yuval | xiangxinyong: what do you think about these? | 15:07 |
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| xiangxinyong | yuval:about 1 | 15:08 |
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| xiangxinyong | as I mentioned, should we add a panel for scheduled operation? | 15:09 |
| xiangxinyong | or add the scheduled operation into operation logs panel? | 15:09 |
| yuval | xiangxinyong: do we have an alternative? | 15:09 |
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| yuval | xiangxinyong: not sure how can it fit inside the operation log panel | 15:10 |
| saggi | I think it should have a separate tab. | 15:10 |
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| xiangxinyong | but what's the difference between the two panels? | 15:11 |
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| yuval | xiangxinyong: scheduled operations is which operation assigned to which trigger. operations log shows past and current running operations | 15:12 |
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| yuval | xiangxinyong: regarding 2, I posted a bug regarding it, with details on how cinder handles volume creation | 15:14 |
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| xiangxinyong | yuval: it means we will show scheduled_operations and scheduled_operation_logs table's data | 15:15 |
| xiangxinyong | scheduled_operations table's data is in the scheduled operations panel? | 15:15 |
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| yuval | xiangxinyong: if I get your right, then yes | 15:16 |
| yuval | *you | 15:16 |
| xiangxinyong | scheduled_operation_logs table's data is in the operation logs panel? | 15:16 |
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| yuval | yes | 15:16 |
| xiangxinyong | what about the restores? | 15:16 |
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| xiangxinyong | we add another panel to show restores? | 15:17 |
| yuval | yes, that too | 15:17 |
| xiangxinyong | oh. big change. | 15:18 |
| yuval | well, that's a discussion | 15:18 |
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| xiangxinyong | at present, we have not API interface aboutscheduled_operation_logs | 15:19 |
| xiangxinyong | at present, we have no API interface about scheduled_operation_logs | 15:19 |
| xiangxinyong | sorry | 15:19 |
| yuval | I'll continue to the next topic | 15:19 |
| yuval | #topic Protectables issues | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Protectables issues (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:20 | |
| yuval | 2 issues here: | 15:20 |
| yuval | 1. we list protectables that might be not in an available status | 15:20 |
| yuval | 2. glance protectable lists kernel and ramdisk, and I'm not sure it is supposed to | 15:21 |
| yuval | Also, when we show a plan that includes a deleted resource, we get an error in dashboard | 15:21 |
| yuval | I'll open bugs for all of these | 15:22 |
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| yuval | #topic Open Discussion | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:22 | |
| yuval | leon_wang: I believe you wanted to bring something up? | 15:22 |
| leon_wang | yuval:yes | 15:22 |
| leon_wang | I have a proposal that we can collect requirements from OPNFV about Recurer and then launch them in Karbor as BP.What do you think? | 15:23 |
| leon_wang | sorry, Rescurer | 15:24 |
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| yuval | what is rescurer? | 15:24 |
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| leon_wang | The reason is below:as a system integrater, OPNFV can provide some requirements from customers, I think it would be win-win. | 15:25 |
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| leon_wang | yuval: it's a project about data protection. | 15:25 |
| zhonghua-lee | leon_wang: protection for what? | 15:26 |
| leon_wang | yuval: We will propose it in OPNFV soon. | 15:26 |
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| leon_wang | zhonghua-lee: one of OPNFV key components is OpenStack, so it is what it means. | 15:27 |
| zhonghua-lee | leon_wang: I think i am very interested in that, could you please introduce more? | 15:27 |
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| leon_wang | zhonghua-lee:Since OPNFV will set up a Storage WG, then we want to propose a project about data protection. | 15:28 |
| zhonghua-lee | leon_wang: what's that meaning? what's the difference between Rescurer and Karbor? | 15:30 |
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| leon_wang | zhonghua-lee:it's totally different. the former only collects requirements. | 15:31 |
| zhonghua-lee | leon_wang:only collect requirements, does that mean there is no project? | 15:33 |
| zhonghua-lee | no really coding project | 15:33 |
| leon_wang | yeah | 15:33 |
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| zhonghua-lee | make sense, sounds a good idea. | 15:33 |
| yuval | leon_wang: sounds like there is a room for collaboration | 15:33 |
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| yuval | *is room | 15:33 |
| leon_wang | yuval:what do you mean? | 15:33 |
| yuval | leon_wang: we would like to hear more about your proposal | 15:34 |
| zhonghua-lee | yuval:yeah, me too | 15:34 |
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| yuval | anything else? | 15:36 |
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| leon_wang | yuval: it's my rough thoughts, if you guys thinks it so, I will communicate with OPNFV about concrete things/ | 15:36 |
| yuval | leon_wang: we would like to hear more | 15:36 |
| leon_wang | They will hold workshop next week and i can communicate with them. | 15:37 |
| yuval | great | 15:37 |
| leon_wang | thanks yuval and zhonghua-lee. | 15:37 |
| yuval | thank you! | 15:37 |
| yuval | anything else? | 15:37 |
| zhonghua-lee | leon_wang: thank you | 15:37 |
| leon_wang | yuval:one thing left. | 15:37 |
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| leon_wang | yuval:about the bp about user isolation,what should i do next? | 15:38 |
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| yuval | leon_wang: we will discuss it on your patch, and once approved we can start moving to code | 15:39 |
| leon_wang | yuval:ok, thanks | 15:39 |
| leon_wang | I'm done. | 15:39 |
| yuval | good night :) | 15:39 |
| yuval | #endmeeting | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 15:39:58 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-14.59.html | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-14.59.txt | 15:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-14.59.log.html | 15:40 |
| leon_wang | yuval:good night | 15:40 |
| leon_wang | bye | 15:40 |
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| sridhar_ram | #startmeeting tacker | 16:05 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 16:05:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Roll Call | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:05 | |
| KanagarajM | hi | 16:05 |
| manikanta-tadi | o/ | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | Hi folks ! | 16:05 |
| vishwanathj | o/ | 16:05 |
| sripriya | o/ | 16:05 |
| tung_doan | o/ | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | sorry for the late start | 16:06 |
| s3wong | o/ | 16:06 |
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| bobh | o/ | 16:06 |
| n-harada | o/ | 16:06 |
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| sridhar_ram | let's start | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Agenda | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:06 | |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Sep_20th.2C_2016 | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | anything else ? | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | I also want to briefly start the discussion on Barcelona Design Summit agenda | 16:07 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, nice ! | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: thanks! | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Announcements | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:07 | |
| sridhar_ram | #chair sripriya bobh s3wong KanagarajM | 16:08 |
| openstack | Current chairs: KanagarajM bobh s3wong sridhar_ram sripriya | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | OpenStack CLI reference guide include Tacker CLIs... | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | #link http://docs.openstack.org/cli-reference/tacker.html | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | Please bookmark this ^^^ | 16:09 |
| diga | o/ | 16:10 |
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| sridhar_ram | This also means we can skip documenting CLI syntax in our usage guide docs and use that instead to describe the feature and its functional benefits | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | next .. | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | You folks stuck with me as the PTL for one more cycle :) | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103881.html | 16:11 |
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| sridhar_ram | I've listed few of my thoughts in this email above ^^^ | 16:12 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: congrats! | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: thanks! | 16:12 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, +1 congrats :) | 16:12 |
| diga | sripriya: Congrats! | 16:12 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: congrats | 16:12 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: congrats! | 16:13 |
| vishwanathj | congrats | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | it just gives me a chance to write about all the amazing things this team delivered ... ! | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | Thanks folks | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | I'll also plan for a Newton Retrospective for the next weekly meeting.. please come with your thoughts on what worked well and what didn't .. | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | .. we will course correct going forward. | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Newton Outstanding items | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton Outstanding items (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:14 | |
| sridhar_ram | We are in the last few days for Newton.. mostly for integration issues.. | 16:15 |
| sridhar_ram | ... except for Alarm Mon.. which is an exception | 16:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: where do we stand ? | 16:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | anyone who reviewed alarm mon - I'd like to hear your opinion | 16:16 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: alar monitor is ready to merge now.. just need some minor changes | 16:16 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: alarm + scaling was lauched | 16:16 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: good news! | 16:16 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: I need a bit time to finish usage guide | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | again, please keep in mind this (and FFG) will be marked experimental features for Newton... we just need to understand the "boundary" of this | 16:17 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: the feature looks fine, i have few concern on the design, but i think we can take it in the next iteration | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: usage guide fix ups can come in immediate follow ons.. i want to get in this feature so that it gets atleast few days of soak time | 16:18 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: also because the token is set to tacker user context, i’m not sure how the UI is impacted during the webhook callback | 16:18 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: anything that would impact existing features (collateral damage) ? | 16:18 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: nothing for now | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: you mean, the respawn & scale out will happen using different user than the original vnf user ? | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | bobh: KanagarajM: did you folks had a chance to review this feature ? | 16:20 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i’m suspecting that, i can confirm it to you today, i had few issues with my local setup when i pulled this feature yest. | 16:20 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, I didn't. sorry ... | 16:20 |
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| bobh | sridhar_ram: me neither - I'll try to get to it tonight | 16:21 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: sounds good.. thanks a ton for pulling this and trying out.. | 16:21 |
| * bobh 30 lashes.... | 16:21 | |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: no worries | 16:21 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: thanks | 16:21 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: np | 16:21 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: thanks all | 16:21 |
| * sridhar_ram pardons bobh | 16:21 | |
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| sridhar_ram | i know dkushwaha and gongysh pitched in .. again making this a team effort.. awesome folks | 16:22 |
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| sridhar_ram | hopefully we can gets this in by tomorrow | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | next.. VNF FFG | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: can you give an update on n-sfc driver ? | 16:22 |
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| trozet | sridhar_ram: going to test it in the next hour or so | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: ah, welcome.. | 16:23 |
| s3wong | sridhar_ram: I did some update --- the NeutronClient problem should be fixed by now | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: s3wong: sounds good.. | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | i'm in the testing team as well :) | 16:24 |
| sridhar_ram | i'll pull the latest n-sfc driver .. | 16:24 |
| diga | trozet: Downloading ubuntu16.04, hope my setup will complete by today EOD. Will let you know once done | 16:24 |
| s3wong | sridhar_ram: right now for some reason, my Python and the python within tox doesn't give me the same neutronclient | 16:24 |
| trozet | diga: cool | 16:24 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: can we setup ubuntu 16.04 on gate for functional testing? | 16:24 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: still need to figure it out (I just upgrade my VM to 16.04 yesterday) | 16:25 |
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| diga | trozet: :) | 16:25 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: yes, i just looked into this yesterday.. it is easy, i just need to mark the node type to xenial .. but i'm concerned doing this release week | 16:25 |
| KanagarajM | s3wong, sripriya, sridhar_ram, how does the ubutu version affect the tacker testing ? | 16:25 |
| s3wong | sripriya: depends on whether we actually want networking-sfc running as part of our gate | 16:26 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: for now, newer Ubuntu pulls newer OVS (v2.5) which is a must for n-sfc | 16:26 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: okay | 16:26 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, oh ok thanks | 16:26 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: func test for ffg + n-sfc needs to come in a follow on.. we can have a separate dsvm job just for ffg+n-sfc and mark that job to use xenial (16.04) | 16:27 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: ok | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: s3wong: can you take ownership of this work item ... even if this mean post stable/newton ? | 16:28 |
| sripriya | s3wong: maybe having a separate job as above would be good | 16:28 |
| diga | sripriya: sridhar_ram | 16:29 |
| trozet | sridhar_ram: i'm definitely not experienced in modifying OS CI, only OPNFV | 16:29 |
| trozet | sridhar_ram: but I can try (would like to learn) | 16:29 |
| trozet | might take me longer to figure out it out than someone else who already knows it | 16:29 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: no worries, i understand.. anyone from the wider tacker community want to take this up | 16:29 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: sure | 16:30 |
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| sridhar_ram | I'm looking to spread Tacker CI job knowledge to the wider tacker community... i can guide anyone who signs up | 16:31 |
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| sridhar_ram | Let me summarize the plans for VNF FFG - | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | (1) wrap final integration testing for n-sfc driver by Wednesday and merge the n-sfc driver patchset by Wed EOD | 16:32 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, I can take it up, if you want | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | (2) trozet owns writing a devref for VNF FFG and this needs to wrap and merge by Friday | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | (3) func test and CI job using 16.04 dsvm will be added post newton release | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: thanks, that will be a good skill set for you to pick up | 16:33 |
| s3wong | sridhar_ram: sounds like a good plan | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: so, you own (3) above. Sounds okay ? | 16:34 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: +1 | 16:34 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, yes | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: thanks! | 16:34 |
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| sridhar_ram | s3wong: diga: ack! | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: what do you think ? | 16:34 |
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| diga | sridhar_ram: I can take func test if you want | 16:35 |
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| sridhar_ram | diga: let tbh take a swing at it first, we can percolate that knowledge further as needed | 16:35 |
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| diga | if tbh is ok with it :) | 16:35 |
| diga | yep | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | anything else related to Newton ? | 16:36 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, one small patch on scaling :) | 16:36 |
| sridhar_ram | I'll request the final newton tag and release request by Monday Sept 26th | 16:36 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: link pls | 16:36 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: we have few non feature related patches that needs to be merged | 16:36 |
| KanagarajM | https://review.openstack.org/371368 | 16:37 |
| trozet | sridhar_ram: fine with me | 16:37 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: thanks! | 16:37 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: pls flag them in the channel after this meeting.. hopefully it is a short list | 16:37 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: yes | 16:37 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: btw, did the heat-translator fix merge ? | 16:38 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, KanagarajM decided to go with the scaling changes in Tacker | 16:39 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, seems tbh is not there .. we had a quick meeting today | 16:39 |
| KanagarajM | tbh, pls go ahead :) | 16:39 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: bobh: team: is any of your features waiting for a newer tosca-parser or heat-translator ? | 16:39 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: KanagarajM: can you elaborate on the new plan? | 16:39 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, as this the release time, i have asked to make sure that new translator does not break tacker functioanlity | 16:39 |
| bobh | sridhar_ram: I just chatted with spzala and we may hold the new heat translator version until after Newton releases | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: +2, i was super worried about that as well | 16:40 |
| KanagarajM | and it was concluded that, if anything break, translator would provide an quick fix on it | 16:40 |
| bobh | sridhar_ram: so we can get a whole cycle in with the changes | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: phew, sigh of relief | 16:40 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, yes, | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: now, what is the plan to support selective VDU scaling ? | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: assuming, we are not going to wait for a fix in heat-translator | 16:41 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, in newton, i think its not possible :( and we could enable it early ocata. | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: ouch :( | 16:42 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, considering the time for release, i would like to go this way, instead of breaking existing support atleast ! | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: is there any work around (bug fix) possible in the tacker scaling code itself ? | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: overall i agree, new heat-translator version at this stage is risky | 16:43 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, workarround, might not possible now. | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: okay, can you place a "Note" in the scaling devref regarding this ? | 16:44 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, because, it would involve more no. of lines in tacker side, which would repeat the logics from the heat translaotr | 16:44 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, sure. I will do that. | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: would those new lines isolated to the scaling logic of Tacker ? | 16:45 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, i don't think so and it would be part of the scaling logic and it would need to change the way tmpl generated in tacker heat driver. at this point in time, it would be risky to even address it | 16:47 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: I see.. | 16:47 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: okay | 16:47 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, thanks. | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: bobh: KanagarajM: spzala: thanks for trying hard on this.. i appreciate it. I agree it is not work the risk at this stage.. | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | *not worth | 16:48 |
| * sridhar_ram notes 10mins left | 16:49 | |
| sridhar_ram | anything else on Newton ? | 16:49 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Ocata Planning | 16:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ocata Planning (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:49 | |
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| sridhar_ram | Few quick notes on Barcelona Design Summit | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TQ-RSlbiBBEclkonIbfUP7R1ExZSJylF1uiEKV2G_Cw/pubhtml?gid=1107826458&single=true | 16:50 |
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| diga | sridhar_ram: I have submitted API framework spec - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368511/ | 16:50 |
| diga | please review | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | Please mark you calendars for Tacker design summit slot mentioned in the above schedule ^^^^ | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | I also created an etherpad to "all-things-barcelona" here.. | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-summit | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | Please use this for all summit related things | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: sure, will review | 16:51 |
| diga | ok | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | IMO, we should wrap up the low-hanging fruit items for Ocata .. which is VNFC and NSD spec.. | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | shall we shoot to land these two specs within next two weeks ? | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: dkushwaha: manikanta_tadi: what do you think ? | 16:53 |
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| manikanta-tadi | We can try | 16:53 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, sure I am not sure will get the reviews on the spec at this moment | 16:54 |
| sridhar_ram | I'll give a shout out to the reviewers and core team to start reviewing VNFC and NSD | 16:54 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, because we still not decided the VNFC drivers to support yet | 16:55 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, :) thanks | 16:55 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: let's put VNFC for next week's call | 16:55 |
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| sridhar_ram | we are out of time for today.. | 16:56 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, sure, that will be helpful | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | please continue to think along the lines we documented for Ocata .. | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-grooming | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Open Discussion | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:56 | |
| sridhar_ram | anything else team ? | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | lets wrap then | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | #endmeeting | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 16:57:40 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-20-16.05.html | 16:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-20-16.05.txt | 16:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-20-16.05.log.html | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | bye everyone | 16:57 |
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| KanagarajM | bye | 16:57 |
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| asselin__ | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 17:01:17 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asselin__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
| asselin__ | anyone around for 3rd party ci working meeting? | 17:01 |
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| ja3 | da I yam | 17:01 |
| ja3 | IIRC, misha is out today | 17:02 |
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| asselin__ | yes he is | 17:02 |
| asselin__ | ja3 do you have any topics to cover today? | 17:03 |
| ja3 | I assume we're pretty much recycling the agenda. Nothing new. Ji Chen will be talking to nova "soon" about us becoming non-voting. | 17:03 |
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| asselin__ | Yeah, there's not much active working going on. I take it as a good thing: means stuff is working. | 17:04 |
| ja3 | "good problem to have" as someone once said | 17:05 |
| asselin__ | But this patch pair is still open: | 17:05 |
| asselin__ | #link | 17:06 |
| asselin__ | Enable a specific version of jenkins to be installed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366803/ | 17:06 |
| asselin__ | #link Enable a specific version of jenkins to be installed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366803/ | 17:06 |
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| ja3 | seems to be waiting for a core to +2 it | 17:07 |
| asselin__ | I pinged fungi yesterday, but most folks are doing an in-person sprint. Maybe next week I'll ping some more folks. | 17:08 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm not actually there with them, but as a result i'm a bit more busy trying to make sure they can focus | 17:08 |
| ja3 | in person, must be nice ;-) | 17:08 |
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| fungi | sap wanted to host a sprint for the qa team, and offered to let infra team members join in and make it a co-op | 17:09 |
| asselin__ | I think that's great. I bet lots of good things will come out of that. | 17:10 |
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| asselin__ | #link firehose.openstack.org announcement http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103985.html | 17:11 |
| asselin__ | This is really neat ^^ | 17:11 |
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| ja3 | yes, ji chen forwarded that around | 17:12 |
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| asselin__ | ja3 anything else to bring up? otherwise we can keep this meeting short | 17:15 |
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| ja3 | nope, I'm all about short. | 17:16 |
| asselin__ | ok thanks! | 17:16 |
| asselin__ | #endmeeting | 17:17 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:17 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 17:17:02 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:17 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-20-17.01.html | 17:17 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-20-17.01.txt | 17:17 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-20-17.01.log.html | 17:17 |
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| dstanek | keystone meeting ping: ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, | 18:00 |
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| dstanek | wanghong, xek | 18:00 |
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| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
| shaleh | \o | 18:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:00 |
| raildo | \o/ | 18:00 |
| topol | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | dstanek o/ | 18:00 |
| browne | o/ | 18:00 |
| amakarov | 0_o | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:00 |
| notmorgan | (>^_^)> | 18:00 |
| dstanek | stevemar is busy so y'all are stuck with me today | 18:00 |
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| samueldmq | hi all | 18:01 |
| jaugustine | o/ | 18:01 |
| spilla | o/ | 18:01 |
| gagehugo | hey! | 18:01 |
| notmorgan | <(^_^<) | 18:01 |
| lamt | o/ | 18:01 |
| ayoung | What is it now? | 18:01 |
| shaleh | ayoung: more diapers :-) | 18:01 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:01 |
| dstanek | shaleh: ++ | 18:01 |
| dstanek | ok, let's get rolling | 18:01 |
| dstanek | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 18:01:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dstanek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| dstanek | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:01 |
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| dstanek | the first bunch or topics are really just announcements; let's get started | 18:01 |
| dstanek | #topic RC status | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RC status (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| dstanek | RC1 was tagged on Thursday last week, we will be releasing RC2 this week or next | 18:02 |
| dstanek | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-rc2 | 18:02 |
| dstanek | Only bug has been backported so far: link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1621200 | 18:02 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1621200 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) newton "password created_at does not honor timezones" [High,Fix committed] - Assigned to Ron De Rose (ronald-de-rose) | 18:02 |
| dstanek | if you know of other bugs that need to be backported we should get on that | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | questions, comments or concerns? | 18:03 |
| bknudson | other than this problem keystone is perfect. | 18:03 |
| dstanek | ++ | 18:03 |
| dstanek | moving along then | 18:04 |
| dstanek | #topic newton retrospective | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton retrospective (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| dstanek | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-newton-retrospective | 18:04 |
| dstanek | has everyone seen this yet? | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | yup | 18:04 |
| bknudson | new to me | 18:04 |
| rderose | started, but need to add more | 18:05 |
| dstanek | it would be really great if everyone can help out and add some content | 18:05 |
| dstanek | this way we can all improve and make sure as a project we are healthy | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:05 |
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| dstanek | no reason to 'make keystone great again' if we never let it slip | 18:06 |
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| rderose | :) | 18:06 |
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| dstanek | so please do take a few minutes to give some honest feedback | 18:06 |
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| dstanek | questions, comments or concerns? | 18:07 |
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| * ayoung needs more time to work on Keystone | 18:07 | |
| * bknudson too | 18:07 | |
| gagehugo | wtb more time | 18:08 |
| dstanek | maybe this cycle you'll get to focus more on it | 18:08 |
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| dstanek | #topic release stable/mitaka | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release stable/mitaka (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:08 | |
| dstanek | we were waiting on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369618/ but this is now merged | 18:08 |
| dstanek | proposed to release 9.2.0 | 18:08 |
| dstanek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372771/ | 18:08 |
| dstanek | Are there any other fixes that folks want in mitaka? it'll soon become the N-2 release -- only security and critical fixes are backport candidates | 18:09 |
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| dstanek | this is the part where you guys/gals give some feedback | 18:10 |
| rodrigods | hope the ksc functional tests issue is not related to keystone server | 18:10 |
| rodrigods | will talk more about when the topic arrives | 18:11 |
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| stevemar_droid | I'm marginally paying attention | 18:11 |
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| dstanek | either everyone is sleeping or keystone/mitaka is perfect :-) either way i'll move on | 18:12 |
| dstanek | #topic service provider filters [knikolla] | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "service provider filters [knikolla] (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
| stevemar_droid | I was expecting Breton to have a few he wanted to back port:) | 18:13 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:13 |
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| dstanek | knikolla: are you around? | 18:13 |
| dstanek | you have the floor | 18:13 |
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| knikolla | so i ran into that spec in the backlog. was interested in picking it up. what's the status? why was it sent back to the backlog? is there interest for me to pick it up? | 18:13 |
| dstanek | stevemar_droid: i don't think i saw him at roll call | 18:13 |
| knikolla | it's potentially useful for some of my projects | 18:14 |
| knikolla | in the long term | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | knikolla, you can pick it up | 18:14 |
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| dstanek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/371754/ | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | about the status... i'm not sure | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | think the better source is the bp | 18:14 |
| dstanek | who created the spec? | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | I thought folks were on the fence about it since we couldn't decide if we wanted to improve OS-EP-FILTER or just create something new | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: ++ | 18:14 |
| stevemar_droid | I don't remember why it went to backlog. It involves creating a lot of new APIs :( | 18:14 |
| * rodrigods did | 18:15 | |
| samueldmq | I was for creating a new, as sp has nothing to do with endpoints | 18:15 |
| stevemar_droid | The os-ep-fikter stuff has been buggy | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, it has everything to do with endpoints | 18:15 |
| shaleh | ++ | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | not in our APIs | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | that's true | 18:15 |
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| rodrigods | conceptually, they are just another region endpoint | 18:16 |
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| dstanek | is there more discussion needed about the actual proposal? | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | but was implemented/displayed differently | 18:16 |
| bknudson | I think we should create something new rather than continuing with endpoint filtering | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | bknudson ++ | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | bknudson why is that? | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: ++ | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | that's my opinion too | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | the catalog should be almost static | 18:17 |
| bknudson | I just don't see how endpoint filtering can be efficient | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | changing based upon scope is just awful and will never be efficient | 18:17 |
| bknudson | right, since the catalog is static there should be what are essentially named catalogs. | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | that idea came from reseller | 18:17 |
| * notmorgan gets on this soapbox again | 18:17 | |
| rodrigods | and hide SPs based on domains | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | so if i'm inside a reselled cloud (aka a domain) | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | SPs should be removed from the catalog and under their own api | 18:18 |
| rodrigods | my seller won't be able to see my SPs | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | since they are much more limitedly used | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | catalog is used for a ton of things | 18:18 |
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| notmorgan | to make the basic cloud work | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: ++ | 18:18 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: ++ | 18:18 |
| dstanek | it doens't make sense to have them there | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | SPs are used for federation and are use heavily when federated, but shouldn't be conflated with the catalog wich is the local cloud. | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | dstanek the service providers in the catalog you mean? | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | auth catalog ? | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | think our plugins rely on them being on the catalog | 18:19 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: yes | 18:19 |
| * rodrigods needs to double check | 18:19 | |
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| bknudson | plugins can be changed | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | rodrigods: somewhat, but that can be changes | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | samueldmq: no. call it service providers | 18:20 |
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| notmorgan | don't overload the name catalog more ;) | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | i don;t know where catalog Tng work is | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | :) | 18:20 |
| rodrigods | isn't this an API change? | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | but with that work, SPs should not exist in the catalog | 18:21 |
| bknudson | maybe catalog TNG work will get started back up in O. | 18:21 |
| ayoung | I think I had a spec that matches "named catalogs" bknudson | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | catlog tng should also move catlog to /catalog | 18:21 |
| bknudson | ayoung: yep, I've seen it. | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | which could then handle named catlogs | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | or whatever | 18:21 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, yes | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | but again catalogs should be effectively static | 18:22 |
| ayoung | catalog/default and catalog/all | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | named or not | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | make it a git repo and you can do git checkout catalog:<tag> | 18:22 |
| ayoung | catalog fetch should be separate from the token anyway | 18:22 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: ++ | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: yes | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | that would be glorious | 18:22 |
| ayoung | Want to do it based on hash, actually, so we can tell if the default has changed | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | back to PKI! | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | (kidding) | 18:23 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, that was where the idea came from, but it stands on its own even for uuid tokens | 18:23 |
| dstanek | knikolla: so are you still interested in this topic? | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | after all this :-) | 18:23 |
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| knikolla | dstanek: yes, if you have a spec for me which also filters the service providers | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | (all this motivation) | 18:24 |
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| knikolla | dstanek: i'm ok with doing it the some other way, if the current spec is not the right way | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | at least any work that has been merged in this front should be reverted | 18:24 |
| dstanek | knikolla: it sounds more like a new spec has to be created for this work | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | so - it sounds like instead of improving the current filter the general consensus is to move service providers to their own api | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | dstanek ++ | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | or we can try to rework the existing spec | 18:24 |
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| rodrigods | if removed from catalog | 18:25 |
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| rodrigods | filtering it is just matter of adding a domain_id field | 18:25 |
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| rodrigods | just like we did for roles | 18:25 |
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| nisha_ | o/ | 18:25 |
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| knikolla | i can do the implementation, for the spec we should have a longer discussion. | 18:26 |
| knikolla | for now lets give the floor to the ksc gate | 18:26 |
| dstanek | knikolla: ok, if you can start to drive that discussion in #openstack-keystone using what was said here as the base | 18:26 |
| dstanek | you can give our a spec based off of those discussions | 18:26 |
| knikolla | dstanek: sounds good. | 18:27 |
| dstanek | #action knikolla to start driving discussions for a service provider api | 18:27 |
| dstanek | #topic keystoneclient gate is busted | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystoneclient gate is busted (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:27 | |
| dstanek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/python-keystoneclient | 18:27 |
| * rodrigods did a bit of investigation | 18:27 | |
| dstanek | any volunteers to look at it? | 18:27 |
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| dstanek | rodrigods: what did you find out? | 18:27 |
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| rodrigods | sometimes the tokens are not authorized | 18:28 |
| stevemar_droid | It started around 3 days ago | 18:28 |
| bknudson | lots of unauthorized | 18:28 |
| dstanek | have you been able to find clues as to why? | 18:28 |
| bknudson | I like how the test output has the request ID : req-3b10a7e2-abe2-4e46-9809-d56456e21a79 ! | 18:29 |
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| rodrigods | for example: http://paste.openstack.org/show/582301/ | 18:29 |
| raildo | I wondering if it's the same issue on the v3-only gates | 18:29 |
| stevemar_droid | Nice, didn't know that merged... bknudson | 18:29 |
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| rodrigods | ksc functional tests uses the devstack user | 18:29 |
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| bknudson | then of course the keystone log is useless. | 18:29 |
| ayoung | could it be an artifact of Fernet and things happening too fast? | 18:30 |
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| rodrigods | so it should be authorized | 18:30 |
| bknudson | http://logs.openstack.org/69/369469/1/check/gate-keystoneclient-dsvm-functional-ubuntu-xenial/da5db08/logs/apache/keystone.txt.gz#_2016-09-20_11_57_17_784 | 18:30 |
| stevemar_droid | Raildo, probably not. The devstack one looks glance related | 18:30 |
| stevemar_droid | ayoung, fernet isn't merged yet | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | afaik the only fernet related patches were the consistent handling of datetimes | 18:30 |
| dstanek | "Invalid user token" - what causes that? | 18:30 |
| bknudson | it looks like it's saying there's no token in the request. | 18:31 |
| rodrigods | the error is also reproducible in my local devstack | 18:31 |
| ayoung | revocation. expired | 18:31 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: oh, cool. that makes it much easier to actually debug. | 18:31 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: += | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | ++ | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | just put LOGs everywhere and narrow it down | 18:32 |
| bknudson | dstanek: The "Invalid user token" was a different request. | 18:32 |
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| lbragstad | we modified the token expiration to always round down - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368244/2/keystone/token/provider.py,unified | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | but that shouldn't have any impact on this | 18:32 |
| bknudson | there's 3 logs for the req-3b10a7e2-abe2-4e46-9809-d56456e21a79 request | 18:32 |
| dstanek | bknudson: yeah, i was that. i don't remember seeing that in my logs, but with 100k lines per request i may have just missed it | 18:33 |
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| dstanek | rodrigods: ok, are you going to continue on this bug? | 18:33 |
| bknudson | 100k lines per request! | 18:33 |
| dstanek | bknudson: i may be rounding down :-P | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | yes, but i might be preempted soon | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | so more volunteers can help a lot | 18:34 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: ok, when you feel like that time is coming if you help my get my devstack in this state i can help pick it up | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | ok | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, sounds good | 18:34 |
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| bknudson | keystone still needs better logging. | 18:35 |
| dstanek | #action rodrigods to continue debugging the ksc gate issue | 18:35 |
| dstanek | bknudson: are you volunteering? | 18:35 |
| bknudson | It's been on my plate for a long time. | 18:35 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: i'd love to review that! | 18:36 |
| dstanek | ... moving on | 18:36 |
| dstanek | #topic identity v3 job for devstack (non-voting) broken | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "identity v3 job for devstack (non-voting) broken (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:36 | |
| dstanek | was mentioned last meeting | 18:36 |
| dstanek | the job is: gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-identity-v3-only-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv | 18:36 |
| dstanek | any update on this? | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | raildo: ^ | 18:36 |
| dstanek | Looks like someone posted https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ to partially fix it | 18:36 |
| raildo | so about this issue, I investigated and talk with jamielennox earlier, we saw that glance could not find the switf endpoint using keystone v3. | 18:36 |
| raildo | as you can see here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/582302/ | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | is the call using ?nocatalog for some reason? | 18:37 |
| raildo | in addition, this commit had changed this code: https://github.com/openstack/glance_store/commit/fb77cb73c5daa9f78dbf13d9c943c91f92ba0298 not sure how this change impact this problem. | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | ^ just throwing out guesses | 18:38 |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ passes v3 | 18:38 |
| * ayoung suggests getting rid of glance | 18:39 | |
| bknudson | that's a change in devstack | 18:39 |
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| raildo | finally I have a patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/324100/6 to add keystoneauth sessions support on glance, so this patch may fix this v2-v3 issues on glance. | 18:39 |
| ayoung | raildo, Nice | 18:39 |
| raildo | but we have to go deeper on this glance-swift issue... | 18:40 |
| raildo | since, this jobs didn't changed anything about that | 18:40 |
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| notmorgan | have a breif thing for the end of the meeting dstanek | 18:40 |
| notmorgan | like ~2m if tht is ok | 18:41 |
| dstanek | raildo: is this something you are going to continue to work through? | 18:41 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: shore | 18:41 |
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| raildo | dstanek, I'll continue working on the keystoneauth support on glance, and on this glance-swift issue | 18:41 |
| bknudson | if https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ is merged is that going to cause problems getting a better fix in place? | 18:41 |
| bknudson | because it looks like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ gets it working again. | 18:42 |
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| raildo | bknudson, I think we have to fix it when we solve this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance-store/+bug/1620999 | 18:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1620999 in glance_store "swift driver ignores user_domain_name and project_domain_name settings" [High,Triaged] | 18:43 |
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| dstanek | raildo: please ask if you need help | 18:45 |
| dstanek | ... moving along | 18:45 |
| dstanek | #topic Cannot list flavors using a v3 token | 18:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cannot list flavors using a v3 token (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:45 | |
| dstanek | Nova team is asking for help with a bug | 18:45 |
| dstanek | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1593573 | 18:45 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1593573 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "flavor image listing failed while calling Nova API with token from http://[host-ip]/identity/v3 " [Undecided,Incomplete] - Assigned to viswesuwara nathan (viswesn) | 18:45 |
| raildo | dstanek, sure, I think jamielennox will work with me on it | 18:45 |
| dstanek | raildo: great | 18:45 |
| dstanek | does anyone have any bandwith to help with this one? | 18:46 |
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| shaleh | dstanek: stevemar posted on it | 18:46 |
| shaleh | it looks to be working now? | 18:46 |
| dstanek | shaleh: yes, he's also looking for help on it :-) | 18:47 |
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| dstanek | ok, sounds like a no | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | i can poke at it | 18:48 |
| shaleh | dstanek: I mean he posted on the bug itself. It appears to be ok now. | 18:48 |
| shaleh | it may just need another validation. | 18:48 |
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| lbragstad | i'll see if I can recreate it on a fresh devstack | 18:48 |
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| shaleh | lbragstad: ++ | 18:48 |
| dstanek | shaleh: that would be great if it now just works! | 18:48 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: thx, maybe there's not much to do here. you can also reach out to the nova crew and see if they are still seeing the issue | 18:49 |
| dstanek | #action lbragstad to look into helping on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1593573 | 18:49 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1593573 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "flavor image listing failed while calling Nova API with token from http://[host-ip]/identity/v3 " [Undecided,Incomplete] - Assigned to viswesuwara nathan (viswesn) | 18:49 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek agreed, I'll see if they are still seeing and updated the meeting agenda with the action item | 18:49 |
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| dstanek | ok notmorgan | 18:50 |
| dstanek | #topic a brief topic from notmorgan | 18:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "a brief topic from notmorgan (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:50 | |
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| notmorgan | o/ | 18:50 |
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| notmorgan | so | 18:50 |
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| notmorgan | keystone, keystonemiddlwarew, keystoneauth, pycadf need some security love | 18:50 |
| notmorgan | we need to get a pblic threat analysis done on them | 18:51 |
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| notmorgan | a couple of these projects are not covered by the VMT | 18:51 |
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| notmorgan | notably, keystonemiddleware and keystoneauth | 18:51 |
| notmorgan | (KSC needs it too, but less important since it[s ust the client software) | 18:51 |
| dstanek | how do we get them covered? | 18:51 |
| notmorgan | you need to go through the process to get them covered | 18:52 |
| shaleh | VMT? | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | with starts with a threat analysis that is accepted by the ossg | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | vulnerability maangement team? | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | shaleh: vuln. management team | 18:52 |
| shaleh | ah | 18:52 |
| shaleh | thx | 18:52 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: is there a link for the process? | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: looking for it sec. | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | #link https://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/vulnerability_managed.html | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | see the Tag application process | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | subsection | 18:53 |
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| notmorgan | and requirements | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | number 5 for the requirements is what we need | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | keystone and ksc are covered atm | 18:54 |
| bknudson | is this just because we broken authtoken out of keystoneclient? | 18:54 |
| bknudson | and auth out of keystoneclient? | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | ksm was never covered after the breakout | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | same with ksa | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | an oversight, but it is where we are today | 18:55 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: how do we get a third party audit | 18:55 |
| dstanek | ? | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: someone (rax, RH, etc) can volunteer to have a security audit | 18:55 |
| bknudson | maybe something to get done during the summit? | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | or a group that does it normally (some company/individual that is capable) | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | this should be something not done at the summit but as a general task | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | a TA is not usually summit timeline type thing | 18:56 |
| dstanek | ok, running out of time.... | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | but in short | 18:56 |
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| dstanek | i'll take the task of figuring out our nexts steps here and working with stevemar_droid to make it happen | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | keystone is covered, but we (the VMT) are going to start requiring refreshes of threat analysis / security review long term | 18:56 |
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| notmorgan | so we should lead here as keystone | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | and get all our repos covered *and* evaluated | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | :) | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | especially ksa and ksm | 18:57 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: is #openstack-security a good resource for questions i have on the docs? | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | yes. also you can ask fungi, tristanc, myself, gmurphy | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | (the VMT) | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | but openstack-security is where i'd start | 18:58 |
| dstanek | #action dstanek to take the task of figuring out our nexts steps here and working with stevemar_droid to make it happen | 18:58 |
| * fungi is thrilled to see this starting | 18:58 | |
| dstanek | 2 mins..... | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | you might want to make tht action more descriptive ;) | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | dstanek... makin' it happen | 18:58 |
| dstanek | #topic open discussion | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | because you're making "what" happen | 18:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:58 | |
| notmorgan | fungi: ;) | 18:58 |
| dstanek | #action dstanek to be project manager for getting identity team repos under VMT | 19:00 |
| notmorgan | there we go | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | lol | 19:00 |
| * dstanek will make it rain | 19:00 | |
| gagehugo | \o/ | 19:00 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: i... uh | 19:00 |
| * notmorgan goes back to lurking under a rock | 19:00 | |
| dstanek | that's time | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | 'um yeah - we're gonna have to have you come in on Saturday' | 19:00 |
| dstanek | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 19:00:47 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-20-18.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-20-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-20-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
| fungi | NOTE: no infra meeting this week with most of the team at an in-person sprint, per http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-13-19.02.html | 19:01 |
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| notmorgan | fungi: but... i wanted to have a meeting with just you and me | 19:01 |
| notmorgan | so we can make all sorts of whacky declarations | 19:01 |
| notmorgan | and see if anyone pays attention to them | 19:01 |
| notmorgan | :P | 19:01 |
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| fungi | i already do that anyway, i just do it in #openstack-infra | 19:02 |
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| notmorgan | related: I've very happe to not have been on an plane this week | 19:02 |
| notmorgan | I do not envy those who were | 19:02 |
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| ttx | knock knock | 20:00 |
| mestery | who's there? | 20:00 |
| * dtroyer_zz will bite | 20:00 | |
| amrith | who's there | 20:00 |
| dtroyer_zz | dang... | 20:00 |
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| mestery | heh | 20:00 |
| ttx | annegentle, dims, dhellmann, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, thingee, mordred, russellb, sdague: around ? | 20:00 |
| annegentle | here | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | hi | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
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| * jroll pokes his head in | 20:00 | |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 20:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| * amrith wanders over to the back of the room | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
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| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | (remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary) | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Update tags per the validate tags script | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update tags per the validate tags script (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/368086 | 20:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our semi-regular diversity tag updates | 20:02 |
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| dims | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | On the good side, OpenStack-Chef now has diverse-affiliation (thanks to WorkDay & CloudBau's involvement) | 20:02 |
| ttx | and Murano is no longer single-vendor, thanks to 99cloud's involvement | 20:02 |
| ttx | On the sad side, Telemetry lost its diverse-affiliation, and TripleO is now single-vendor | 20:02 |
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| ttx | We have enough votes and no objection to approve this now | 20:03 |
| annegentle | #info OpenStack-Chef now has diverse-affiliation (thanks to WorkDay & CloudBau's involvement) | 20:03 |
| annegentle | #info Murano is no longer single-vendor, thanks to 99cloud's involvement | 20:03 |
| annegentle | #info Telemetry lost its diverse-affiliation, and TripleO is now single-vendor | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: NICE! thanks :D | 20:03 |
| * ttx approves | 20:03 | |
| annegentle | heh, copy/paste to success | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Add Ocata goal split out tempest plugins | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Ocata goal split out tempest plugins (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/369749 | 20:04 |
| ttx | mtreinish proposed this alternate goal for Ocata, I think it's a reasonable one | 20:04 |
| ttx | The question is more, is the Ocata goal list still open at this stage | 20:04 |
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| ttx | I'm fine with it if we approve it ASAP, but it feels like the PTLs haven't seen that one yet, so we migth want to wait a bit, which may push us beyond acceptable time | 20:05 |
| ttx | Opinions ? | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: we probably don't need to be as strict with it as we just worked on this | 20:05 |
| sdague | I think it's a good thing to do for sure | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | yes, my only real concern with this is the timing | 20:05 |
| anteaya | what is the consequence of not reaching the goal? | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | I mean, I'd be good to have it in Ocata if the plan sounds realistic for the Ocata timeframe | 20:05 |
| ttx | dhellmann: what are the things taht are sticky to timing ? | 20:05 |
| ttx | dhellmann: there is the cross-project workshop list | 20:05 |
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| ttx | and then there is the goal assessment deadline on the release schedule | 20:06 |
| ttx | anything else ? | 20:06 |
| sdague | but, I thought the goals were supposed to be stuff everyone more or less agreed on, and there are some comments in there that make it sound like some projects don't fundamentally agree with it | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | yeah, and resolving whatever issues people felt we had with the goal process in general that kept us from being able to approve the python 3 goal | 20:06 |
| amrith | sdague ++ I thought that we'd agreed that we would have discussions on the ML before a goal was approved. I don't know that we have done that, I certainly have missed it if we did. | 20:06 |
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| mugsie | so, for most porject sthat have an in-tree plugin this should be simple enought to split out | 20:06 |
| ttx | argh, missed those recent objections | 20:06 |
| * jroll is not fully convinced on the usefulness of doing this, but not enough to -1 here | 20:06 | |
| sdague | mugsie: yes, it's honestly all very mechanical | 20:06 |
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| mugsie | the issue is that it forces projects to make API changes compatible | 20:07 |
| mugsie | which can slow down dev | 20:07 |
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| mugsie | but in turn helps users | 20:07 |
| amrith | mugsie, please note that there is some funny tooling for at least two projects (trove is one) as mentioned by matt in his comments. | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | FWIW, I don't think anyone has said we should approve when there's disagreement. At least I was not expecting it to be approved now. | 20:07 |
| sdague | mugsie: which is supposed to be a standard | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : right, that's a thing we want as a community | 20:07 |
| mugsie | designate has it, and I think it is definitly the way forward | 20:07 |
| ttx | anteaya: bad karma | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | mugsie: ++ | 20:07 |
| anteaya | ttx: okay, thank you | 20:07 |
| annegentle | mugsie thanks for that | 20:07 |
| mugsie | it has made us stop and think quite a few times | 20:08 |
| sdague | jroll: tempest is a branchless model, so plugins in branches end up causing massive confusion | 20:08 |
| mugsie | amrith: what weird tooling do you have for tempest? | 20:08 |
| sdague | the plugin structions really need to mirror the consuming structure | 20:08 |
| amrith | mugsie, read mtreinish' comment in the review | 20:09 |
| sdague | which is why this is different than devstack, where it has branches that match project branches | 20:09 |
| * ttx reads the comments he somehow failed to receive notifications for | 20:09 | |
| johnthetubaguy | I like mtreinish's recent comments on why it needs splitting out | 20:09 |
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| mugsie | yeah, me too | 20:09 |
| dougwig | i get the impression that some of us have difference experiences with "drive by contributors" and follow-up patches, which is where multi-repo becomes a massive heartache, especially with non-fun follow-ons. | 20:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | that was all news to me, and kinda makes sense | 20:09 |
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| dtroyer_zz | those comments need to be preserved, like johnthetubaguy pointed out, maybe added to the doc? | 20:10 |
| ttx | ok, I don't think we can get to consensual state in the timeframe we have for Ocata goals | 20:10 |
| mugsie | there is a hack to make it work the way it should, and doing this removes the need for the hack, is what i am reading | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | dougwig: what about Depends-On, is that something projects are aware of and using ? | 20:10 |
| jroll | sdague: yeah, I get it, I'm someone who has the plugin in-tree. not opposed, just not convinced yet | 20:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | dtroyer_zz: yeah, I think it should be in the doc | 20:10 |
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| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy , dtroyer_zz : ++ | 20:10 |
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| thingee | flaper87: +1 | 20:11 |
| dougwig | flaper87: certainly, but once "the code" is in, there's no way to force someone to finish the test commit. maybe that means the initial code shouldn't have landed, but we have problems there today with one repo. | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | also the point about helping to ensure API compatibility is maintained should be added | 20:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | depends-on is what makes this palatable I think | 20:11 |
| sdague | dougwig: right, you can block on depends-on | 20:11 |
| dougwig | depends-on doesn't work branchless, either. | 20:11 |
| sdague | dougwig: yes it does | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | it would be good to address the process questions dougwig is raising | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | dougwig: have you hit any issue? | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: perhaps something to also have as recommendation in the goal itself | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: ^ | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : yeah | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | that's what I meant | 20:12 |
| dougwig | oh? my mind was just blown. so a stable/mitaka commit can depend on a master commit? | 20:12 |
| sdague | dougwig: yes | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | dougwig : yes | 20:12 |
| dougwig | oh, sweet. | 20:12 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: a-ha, gotcha :D | 20:12 |
| ttx | dhellmann: what's your take -- do you really think we can get fast enough ietartions/response to get that one in Ocata in a reasonable time ? | 20:13 |
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| flaper87 | I'm happy to help, fwiw | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: ^ | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'm skeptical, but I don't know how busy mtreinish is right now. | 20:13 |
| ttx | I think that people like to resist goals and we need a /lot/ of time to pass them | 20:13 |
| anteaya | he is at a sprint in germany this week | 20:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was kinda expecting to approve a some goals post summit, it feels like this could be one of those | 20:14 |
| mugsie | I think a lot of the work can be nearly coookie-cuttered | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | we should make sure there's a cross-project session on this | 20:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: in the goals session, or separate? | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : yeah, the work itself is going to be pretty mechanical. the bigger hurdle is convincing projects to actually do it. | 20:14 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: yup | 20:14 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: post-summit we'll start the process of approving Pike goals | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : if we need to dig into the details, it should have its own session | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : the goals session we have up now is supposed to be about the general process, right? | 20:14 |
| annegentle | yeah, I think revising to add the use cases and benefits up front could mean we can get this discussed by leading with the "why" | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: yeah, I think thats the way I am leaning too, more just clarifying | 20:15 |
| annegentle | and seems do-able by summit | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : ++ | 20:15 |
| annegentle | and at summit revisions as needed | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | #idea have a cross project session on tempest plugins and patterns | 20:15 |
| jroll | mugsie: it's actually not a super easy transition to move from in-tree to out-of-tree, it involves project-config changes that aren't self tested, and a bunch of cross-repo commits. it's doable but is easy to break a gate or be running less tests for some time | 20:16 |
| ttx | OK, so maybe we should just consider the Ocata list closed and start the discussion in Barcelona for a potential Pike goal around tempest | 20:16 |
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| flaper87 | fwiw, I think it's fine to have this in Pike too. I'd love to see it as part of Ocata but I don't want to rush things | 20:16 |
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| jroll | I agree easy to get done within a cycle, but it isn't trivial | 20:16 |
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| dhellmann | jroll : right, part of the pre-work for this will be to document a reliable process for the transition | 20:16 |
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| mugsie | ttx: I think Pike is a better goal, just based on timing | 20:16 |
| annegentle | ttx part of the point of goals is to prioritize work | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | ttx: unfortunately, I think that's the state we're in, yes. | 20:16 |
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| jroll | dhellmann: cool | 20:17 |
| ttx | mugsie: yeah | 20:17 |
| mugsie | for example I had no idea this was a thing until I ready the agenda this afternoon | 20:17 |
| annegentle | ttx so if we think it's important enough, then we could prioritize it with discussion | 20:17 |
| anteaya | the ocata goal could be to have this be a pike goal with documentation and process in place | 20:17 |
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| mugsie | so, ptls might like a longer heads up | 20:17 |
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| annegentle | yeah might be mugsie | 20:17 |
| dims | ttx : yeah it probably late :( | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : ++ | 20:17 |
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| ttx | mugsie: yeah, we can't just throw a new goal idea into the process so late | 20:17 |
| ttx | #info A bit late to insert a new goal into the Ocata list (since Ocata just started) | 20:18 |
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| dhellmann | I do think this one is a strong contender for pike, though. with a little more detail added it'll be quite doable in that time-frame. | 20:18 |
| mugsie | but ++ for Pike | 20:18 |
| dims | dhellmann ++ | 20:18 |
| sdague | so... another pike goal to think about for the list. All API services running under a non-eventlet webserver. | 20:18 |
| ttx | #info let's make sure we discuss this in Barcelona in time for it to be a potential Pike goal | 20:18 |
| amrith | a request, could we discuss this on the ML as we agreed in https://governance.openstack.org/goals/index.html#identifying-goals | 20:18 |
| annegentle | amrith yeah | 20:19 |
| dims | amrith : reasonable to do that. +1 | 20:19 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : that's listed on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-tc-goals (which we should probably move somewhere with a less cycle-specific name) | 20:19 |
| mugsie | amrith: +1 | 20:19 |
| ttx | amrith: yes, that's part of the "too late" thing | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | amrith: I think this will be discussed in the ML anyway | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | what ttx said | 20:19 |
| ttx | OK, I propose we move on | 20:19 |
| * flaper87 chose his words poorly | 20:19 | |
| dougwig | sdague: isn't eventlet py3 compatible now? i thought that was the only objection. | 20:19 |
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| amrith | thx flaper87 ttx. | 20:19 |
| sdague | dougwig: no, it's not the only objection | 20:19 |
| ttx | I think we have a way forward, and I'll summarize it on the review | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | ttx: thx | 20:20 |
| ttx | #topic Update tc-approved-release application policy | 20:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update tc-approved-release application policy (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:20 | |
| sdague | for the API services being under a real webserver actually means much better scale up / down in resource usage instead of a fixed worker pool | 20:20 |
| * flaper87 notices that without his glasses ttx and thx just look the same | 20:20 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/368240 | 20:20 |
| mugsie | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368240/ | 20:20 |
| ttx | This change proposes to let anyone propose additions to the tc-approved-release tag | 20:20 |
| ttx | As a reminder, this tag is used to describe what should be considered "the TC-approved release" (a concept used in the Foundation bylaws) | 20:21 |
| ttx | Our current policy around this tag is that (since all projects would be interested in having that badge) we would wait for /some/ interest from the defcore committee before evaluating projects | 20:21 |
| ttx | Personally I see no reason to change that policy | 20:21 |
| ttx | That said, this review raised interesting side-discussions. | 20:21 |
| ttx | In particular mugsie raised that tc-approved-release is used outside of the Foundation bylaws context, which I think is generally a bad idea | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | yes, we were careful to set this up to avoid lots of unnecessary discussion over this tag | 20:21 |
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| ttx | (as it overloads the tag meaning and makes it desirable outside of Defcore context) | 20:22 |
| mugsie | Yeah, so bazsed on the discussion on the patch, I think I would be better capturing the discussion in the policy | 20:22 |
| ttx | In the QA case he raised (in-tree tempest tests), it may be some sort of full circle though, as tempest is required to maintain DefCore-related tests... | 20:22 |
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| ttx | mugsie: would you like to propose a new change (or a new patchset) that would bring those clarifications ? | 20:22 |
| mugsie | yeah, if there is agreement that there is confucsion, I will propose it | 20:23 |
| ttx | I felt like the tag was sufficiently self-explaining, but it's easy to "improve" | 20:23 |
| ttx | mugsie: where is the confusion, exactly ? | 20:23 |
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| ttx | around the usage of teh tag ? | 20:24 |
| ttx | the* | 20:24 |
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| annegentle | yes, in the spirit of writing things down, what else do we need to write down? | 20:24 |
| mugsie | well, the confusion (for me anyway) is that previous comments would indicate that it was the TC who could add/remove projects | 20:24 |
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| ttx | It is the TC which approves additions | 20:24 |
| ttx | (as a way to handle the communication with Defcore folks) | 20:24 |
| mugsie | yup, approve | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | someone on the tc might even technically submit the patch to add something, based on discussion with the defcore folks | 20:25 |
| mugsie | not propose | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | the point is that we don't want PTLs or project contributors to propose those sorts of patches | 20:25 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: well, is that not in breach of the policy? | 20:25 |
| ttx | There is basically no point in proposing something that defcore is not interested to add | 20:25 |
| sdague | the previous working theory is that defcore / board knew what the market for trademark looked like | 20:25 |
| sdague | so they would be the best ones to initiate "we want this thing in the trademark" because either their users, or their vendors, wanted products with that feature stamped openstack | 20:26 |
| fungi | or at least should be the ones responsible for figuring it out if not | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | right | 20:26 |
| dims | fungi : sdague : right | 20:26 |
| ttx | sdague: also they add projects far less often than we do :) | 20:26 |
| annegentle | that's my understanding as well ^^ | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | like I said, the point is not that a patch is invalid because the wrong person submitted it. the point is to avoid extra work from folks who want the tag but don't understand the process. | 20:27 |
| mugsie | for me, the enitire process was murky. asking in def-core I was told one thing (which was later clarified, but the inital reading looked like defcore was waiting for the TC to update), and then the policy said another | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | if we have to make a hard rule that only defcore committee members can submit the patch, that's not ideal but I could live with it | 20:27 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: is that not what it says right now? | 20:28 |
| ttx | OK, so I think we can reject this change as it stands, and we'll consider other clarifications in the wording in the future if they are submitted | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : yes, I think you're the first project to go through this process so I'm not surprised it's not fully understood | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : I don't think we anticipated anyone saying the TC could not modify its own git repo. | 20:28 |
| sdague | ttx: I can give a shot at updating the document with the current understanding | 20:28 |
| sdague | I'll submit a patch tomorrow | 20:28 |
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| dhellmann | obviously removing something from the list takes communication with defcore, too | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:29 |
| ttx | sdague: you mean iterate on the same change ? | 20:29 |
| sdague | ttx: no, I'll do a new change | 20:29 |
| ttx | ore some new change ? | 20:29 |
| ttx | ok, so we can reject the current one | 20:29 |
| annegentle | sdague thanks for doing that | 20:29 |
| ttx | anyone disagreeing on rejection of 368240 ? | 20:29 |
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| ttx | #agreed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368240/1 should be rejected, expecting another clarification to be proposed in the near future | 20:30 |
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| ttx | I'll process it after I slept | 20:31 |
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| ttx | #topic Mention where the metric rules are defined/used | 20:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mention where the metric rules are defined/used (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:31 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/342225 | 20:31 |
| ttx | flaper87: want to lead this one ? | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | Sure | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | so, This patch should update these tags with what the teamstats script does | 20:31 |
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| flaper87 | we've invested quite some time arguing on what should be the next step as new things about the behavior of the script were found | 20:32 |
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| flaper87 | There are proposals to update the current wording, land this patch and then do further improvements to the script | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | and there's another proposal to just revert the whole thing | 20:32 |
| ttx | and a bunch of people who don't care enough either way to weigh in | 20:33 |
| ttx | (including me) | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | I personally think we should go with the first one as it should reflect the current status while we work on improving the script forward | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | ttx: right | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | we could also trim it down to just "This tag is applied based on the `tools/teamstats.py` script." | 20:33 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: or that too, which I think was the first version of this patch | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | trying to explain what the script does in english is where we keep getting tripped up, because of vague words like "patch" | 20:33 |
| ttx | dhellmann: maybe we should add that we review the changes proposed by the script to check if they are reflecting reality | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | which is why I didn't want us to try to do that in english in the first place | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | ttx: sure | 20:33 |
| dtroyer_zz | which is why flaper87's suggestion is preferable to me | 20:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I quite like just referring to the script, and noting the human element | 20:34 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 20:34 |
| thingee | +1 | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : do you want to do that now? | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: doing it as we speak | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | if there are no objections, we can just move on and revisit this on Open discussion | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | wfm | 20:35 |
| ttx | ok | 20:35 |
| ttx | #topic Write down OpenStack principles | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Write down OpenStack principles (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:35 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/357260 | 20:35 |
| ttx | So... The new draft seems to have addressed most of the concerns around the "One OpenStack" principle | 20:35 |
| ttx | The only principle that seems potentially controversial at this stage (beyond just choice of words) is the "OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third" one | 20:35 |
| ttx | eglynn / jaypipes seem to prefer to say that it's OK to represent company opinion, as long as you disclose it (using the 'hats' analogy) | 20:36 |
| ttx | I don't see that as being orthogonal to what's in there though. This principle just says that as leaders you're supposed to put the interests of OpenStack first. | 20:36 |
| ttx | Doesn't mean you can't represent/voice the interests of the company as well | 20:36 |
| ttx | So you should definitely explain why your company would prefer it differently, but in your vote, you're supposed to make the choice that is beneficial to OpenStack in case of conflicts of interests | 20:36 |
| edleafe | Yeah, it's not "company never" | 20:36 |
| ttx | I'll try to rewrite the last sentence so that it's clearer | 20:36 |
| ttx | Hopefully that will solve it | 20:37 |
| ttx | As TC members, is there anything in the current draft that you think does not accurately represent our principles ? | 20:37 |
| ttx | Or something I should definitely try to catch on my next revision ? | 20:37 |
| ttx | Or something that would prevent you from +1ing it ? | 20:37 |
| eglynn | FWIW I think the hats analogy better captures the more nuanced balancing of interests that goes on in reality (IIUC) | 20:37 |
| eglynn | (as opposed to a strict 1,2,3 ordering) | 20:37 |
| annegentle | ttx I had comments that I'd like in a new revision around the software aspect vs. API implementation | 20:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | I honestly think its more about wording to stop miss read of the intent, it feels like we are all trying to point towards the same thing | 20:37 |
| ttx | eglynn: it's not as widespread as you think outside of Red Hat :) | 20:37 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: yeah | 20:38 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: precision which we can address in subsequent patchsets, too | 20:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: thats a very good point | 20:38 |
| eglynn | ttx: hmmm, I'll take that in jest | 20:38 |
| annegentle | ttx one reason for -1 for API implementation would be that we can't really do anything about projects outside of OpenStack that implement an API, is that not a concern? It's possible it's not a concern because they don't call it OpenStack? | 20:38 |
| annegentle | (heh lots of use of it_ | 20:39 |
| anteaya | annegentle: you are your own grammar police | 20:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | I certainly wore many "hats" at Citrix in a closed sourced world, maybe its UK + Ireland thing, we must love hats or something | 20:39 |
| annegentle | what I mean is, do we stop Ceph implementing Object Storage API or do we not care? | 20:39 |
| annegentle | and even can we stop anyone? :) | 20:39 |
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| mugsie | johnthetubaguy: I think it might be ... | 20:39 |
| annegentle | anteaya some days I just can't English | 20:39 |
| eglynn | johnthetubaguy: because all that rain :) | 20:40 |
| anteaya | :) | 20:40 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle : we don't care what they do as long as they don't say it's OpenStack | 20:40 |
| dtroyer_zz | annegentle: ok, that's what I was wondering … is it that we don't want 3rd party implementations? or that you can't call yourself OpenStack if you use one? | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | eglynn: heh | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:40 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann ok, that's fair enough then, maybe we should clearly state that as a principle "we don't care" | 20:40 |
| dtroyer_zz | or that it only matters if it's a defcore-tested api? | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | annegentle, dtroyer_zz: right, the point of this principle is to reiterate our defcore response about designated sections | 20:40 |
| annegentle | dtroyer_zz good question, I'm not sure myself. | 20:40 |
| ttx | annegentle: we don't care and can't do anything about what's done outside of openstack | 20:40 |
| annegentle | ttx I put some suggested wording rather than just saying "no" at least :) | 20:41 |
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| anteaya | noone can stop third party implimentations | 20:41 |
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| annegentle | ttx I'd like that in before giving a +2 | 20:41 |
| dims | trademarks kick in for that right? | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | I like it because we say we ship software and not APIs, and its a nice expression of that | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : I just replied to you on the review | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | s/APIs/API specs/ | 20:41 |
| dtroyer_zz | annegentle: right, wanting to make sure I read the right questions :) | 20:41 |
| ttx | ok, so it feels like as far as TC members go, you could LIVE BY the current set, I just need to make a few more wording tweaks | 20:41 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy yeah me too | 20:41 |
| sdague | I do feel like there is something missing here about do-acracy or something. | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : right, that was one of the fundamental arguments when openstack started, was whether we deliver code or specs. | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague:oooo... you are right | 20:41 |
| sdague | because there isn't a lot said here about the fact that people doing the work are the ones that should be making the decisions | 20:42 |
| ttx | sdague: easy to propose as a subsequent patch too | 20:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: +1 | 20:42 |
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| annegentle | sdague so, such as "code or it doesn't count" Yeah I could see that is relevant | 20:42 |
| ttx | sdague: though I could slip something about in in the representative democracy principle too | 20:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: your spot on though, thats totally missing right now | 20:43 |
| ttx | sdague: though I think it warrants its own thing | 20:43 |
| sdague | ttx: you could, but I know a concern that was widely raised when I first joined was the invasion of astronaut architects | 20:43 |
| dtroyer_zz | Let's nail down what is there and tack that on? else we'll keep iterating on the rest of this too | 20:43 |
| jroll | I'd say follow up patches, or we just keep adding to this patch every time we think of something | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ttx, sdague : yeah, that's worth it's own point | 20:43 |
| annegentle | sdague heh I was remembering the same session I think | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer_zz : ++ | 20:43 |
| ttx | dtroyer_zz: yeah, definitely not looking forward a whole new one | 20:43 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: sdague I'd probably leave it for a follow-up patch | 20:43 |
| sdague | and that it was really important the voices that had weight were the ones doing work | 20:43 |
| dims | +1 to follow up patches jroll | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | this one has enough content, in my opinion | 20:43 |
| dims | sdague : totally | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | I do think it's worth mentioning it | 20:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: yeah, I think we should do that, I like flaper87's proposed add (well its direction) | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy: :) | 20:44 |
| jroll | ++ | 20:44 |
| ttx | OK, so I'll do a new revision to catch the latest wording suggestions. Then we'll try to approve it at next week meeting | 20:44 |
| annegentle | ttx sounds good | 20:44 |
| ttx | and then we can start a subsequent patch fair | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | ttx: wfm | 20:44 |
| dtroyer_zz | ++ | 20:44 |
| dims | sounds like a plan ttx | 20:44 |
| ttx | we won't get it perfect the first time around. We never do | 20:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think we need to get into iterate mode on this soon-ish | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | (shameless plug if ppl want to review the metrics patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342225/) | 20:44 |
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| ttx | OK, let's move to open discussion, quite a bit to discuss there too | 20:45 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:45 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342225/ Metrics patch | 20:45 |
| * flaper87 stfu | 20:45 | |
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| ttx | no no I was about to say that :) | 20:45 |
| dtroyer_zz | flaper87: looks good, I expect 'verify it matches reality' to receive some interpretation though | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | dtroyer_zz: English, I'll eventually stop trying and go with the flow :P | 20:46 |
| ttx | Given the opposition on this patch, I don't feel comfortable approving it right away though | 20:46 |
| ttx | unless we can get the -1ers to approve it | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | that seems reasonable | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | it's fine, no need to rush it | 20:47 |
| russellb | if people -1 this, we should all just pack up and go home | 20:47 |
| russellb | :-p | 20:47 |
| ttx | ok, so, next open discussion topic | 20:47 |
| ttx | We have a load of missing PTLs: Astara, OpenStackSalt, OpenStack UX, Security | 20:47 |
| amrith | ttx, did anyone on tc even -1 it? | 20:47 |
| amrith | don't think so | 20:47 |
| ttx | russellb: inorite | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | I also prefer waiting for -1ers to read this version | 20:47 |
| dougwig | russellb: you did not just throw down that gauntlet. | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | russellb: :P | 20:47 |
| ttx | I received a private email from Piet (UX) saying he waited until the last minute and experienced some issues posting his candidacy | 20:47 |
| anteaya | ttx technical issues? | 20:48 |
| ttx | so the election repo UX failed the test | 20:48 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | has he posted it since then? | 20:48 |
| ttx | No news from the others though, which points to some significant level of disconnect with the community | 20:48 |
| piet_ | Yeah - we ran into an issue, but definitely want to continue as PTL | 20:48 |
| annegentle | so is it only Astara and OpenStackSalt we need to find potential people for? | 20:48 |
| Rockyg | There was an ML post by the Astara guy who got it in too late | 20:48 |
| anteaya | I thought adam lawson posted to the mailing list about astara | 20:48 |
| sdague | or just retire them | 20:48 |
| ttx | usually when we publish the "oops you missed" list, people show up | 20:48 |
| jroll | astara also had a late submission | 20:48 |
| ttx | So, speaking of Astara | 20:49 |
| ttx | markmcclain: around ? | 20:49 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: yes | 20:49 |
| ttx | markmcclain: could you give us the state there | 20:49 |
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| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103943.html | 20:49 |
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| markmcclain | I've been chatting with a few folks the last few days about Astara | 20:49 |
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| markmcclain | we think it makes sense to remove the project from governance and let anyone who wants to take reorganize do so after it is outside of governance | 20:51 |
| sdague | I kind of feel like we should default to removing official status from projects that don't have PTLs show up | 20:51 |
| ttx | if it's a completely different team, then yes, it makes sense | 20:51 |
| sdague | and handle not doing that as an exception | 20:51 |
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| Rockyg | tough to remove security from governance | 20:51 |
| jroll | sdague: I lean that way too | 20:51 |
| sdague | UX would get an exception this time, but the rest we should just take out of the fold | 20:51 |
| markmcclain | the main contributors have all scattered to different companies after Akanda wound down and I don't expect any holdovers | 20:51 |
| ttx | sdague: for example, I'm not sure we can't have anyone leading Security since the VMT depends on it | 20:51 |
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| sdague | Rockyg: not really, it's basically just creating a couple of tools | 20:52 |
| anteaya | Rockyg: they aren't the vulnerability management team, they are a different team | 20:52 |
| sdague | ttx: in which way? | 20:52 |
| sdague | I thought the whole point of them being different was they were different deliverables | 20:52 |
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| ttx | anteaya: the VMT is now a subteam of Security | 20:52 |
| * dhellmann is surprised to learn that security and vmt are not the same team | 20:52 | |
| anteaya | ttx: ah sorry I missed that | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | oh, they are, nevermind | 20:52 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ish | 20:52 |
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| fungi | the vmt moved from release management to security for better alignment | 20:53 |
| sdague | honestly, I would rather make VMT a top level team | 20:53 |
| fungi | but the vmt still operates as a completely autonomous entity | 20:53 |
| anteaya | sdague: me too | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | I see | 20:53 |
| sdague | I feel like their output is measurable, the security team... less so | 20:53 |
| markmcclain | I'm willing to handle proposing the patches to remove Astara from governance and then help handoff to those who might be interested in reorganizing | 20:53 |
| ttx | markmcclain: ++ | 20:53 |
| sdague | markmcclain: that sounds great, thank you | 20:53 |
| dtroyer_zz | markmcclain: thanks | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | markmcclain : what time-frame do you have in mind for that? | 20:54 |
| fungi | basically teh release management team wanted to stop being a catch-all, and since the security team had newly formed the vmt agreed to relocate there | 20:54 |
| dims | markmcclain : ++ | 20:54 |
| sdague | fungi: sure, as a point in time it made sense | 20:54 |
| sdague | but I think we should just call the VMT an independent entity | 20:54 |
| ttx | So, we save UX since Piet reached out. We remove Astara to enable a clean hand-off | 20:54 |
| sdague | which is basically is | 20:54 |
| markmcclain | I was thinking of proposing it this week with goal of making official during first meeting of new TC term | 20:54 |
| ttx | Leaves us with Salt and Security | 20:54 |
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| jroll | sdague: yeah, +1 | 20:54 |
| markmcclain | that should give time for any community members to chime in | 20:54 |
| ttx | FWIW Salt also missed all of the emails about Design Summit allocation | 20:54 |
| fungi | i wouldn't object to the vmt being an officially independent official team, but we only have four members (until recently it was only 3) | 20:55 |
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| ttx | and you know how many reminders I send | 20:55 |
| sdague | fungi: release isn't any bigger | 20:55 |
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| anteaya | this is the second salt team that disappeared, the first has modules in retirement | 20:55 |
| fungi | sdague: fair point | 20:55 |
| annegentle | we once had the security team own/ review the Security Guide all the security, oh what are they called, reports? | 20:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 for a separate VMT team | 20:55 |
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| Rockyg | annegentle, audits? | 20:55 |
| ttx | fungi: they co-publish on security.o.o, too | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | is there someone who would lead the vmt team that wouldn't be willing to lead the security team? | 20:55 |
| fungi | ttx: correct | 20:55 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: there was never really much overlap | 20:56 |
| fungi | dhellmann: most of the vmt are not heavily involved in the rest of the security team's output | 20:56 |
| ttx | Should we rather have someone from the VMT take over Security PTLship ? | 20:56 |
| fungi | we're more... allied? | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ok | 20:56 |
| ttx | that doesn't prevent them from doing their side of work | 20:56 |
| annegentle | ah, OSSA, OpenStack Security Advisories. | 20:56 |
| sdague | ttx: no, we should just split it off | 20:56 |
| anteaya | ttx: I think salt should be moved out of governance and left to its own devices | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it sounds like no | 20:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | +1 for the split | 20:56 |
| annegentle | Nathaniel Dillon was who worked on the docs side | 20:56 |
| anteaya | ttx: if someone picks up the work again, so be it | 20:56 |
| sdague | anteaya: ++ | 20:56 |
| annegentle | (and prior PTL?) | 20:56 |
| thingee | maybe put a call on the mailing list for someone in the vmt to step up | 20:56 |
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| flaper87 | thingee: +1 | 20:57 |
| dims | thingee +1 | 20:57 |
| sdague | honestly, our focus should be on the folks doing the work, and not spending a lot of time shepharding and safeguarding people that don't show up | 20:57 |
| ttx | So, all those teams have design summit space | 20:57 |
| piet_ | what do you need from me re: | 20:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | I would rather the VMT just became its own thing | 20:57 |
| fungi | annegentle: right, the vmt generates ossa. there are a set of editors on the security team who generate ossn, which are like security advisories but more in the vein of recommendations. probably getting off-topic for a tc meeting but i'm happy to explain in greater detail later | 20:57 |
| anteaya | sdague: ++ | 20:57 |
| ttx | would we just prevent those teams from meeting, too ? | 20:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: oh, thats an interesting twist on the problem | 20:57 |
| sdague | ttx: I think it's fair to give up their slots | 20:57 |
| sdague | this is kind of fundamental failure to show up | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | ttx: the astara team wanted a slot to coordinate the hand-off, iiuc | 20:58 |
| ttx | or maybe reduce their allocation a bit | 20:58 |
| dougwig | does the vmt as a separate autonomous team need a ptl? | 20:58 |
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| dhellmann | dougwig : yes, it would | 20:58 |
| ttx | sdague: could be seen as the error of one person making a problem for a whole team | 20:58 |
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| fungi | fwiw the security team's efforts are pretty cool, and they're reasonably active. i just don't know what's up with nobody stepping up to be ptl for them | 20:58 |
| anteaya | piet_: stand by, so far just your presence at the meeting and your prior communication with ttx | 20:58 |
| mugsie | ttx: reduce slots for them | 20:58 |
| dougwig | dhellmann: i guess i'm challenging the notion that every little cross project team should have a "ptl". do the members of that team need weekly meetings and summit space, e.g.? | 20:58 |
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| ttx | mugsie: yes, that was my idea | 20:59 |
| ttx | Reduce slot allocation | 20:59 |
| sdague | ttx: it could be, but again, all the time we spend chasing teams not showing up is time we're not spending on / with projects that are working hard | 20:59 |
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| dhellmann | dougwig : from a governance perspective the important function of the PTL is to be the single-point-of-contact when all else fails. | 20:59 |
| mugsie | if I flew in to BCN, and found no sessions I would be ... annoyed | 20:59 |
| piet_ | anteaya What does the TC need from me to make sure I stay UX PTL? | 20:59 |
| ttx | So Salt would be down to one slot (which is what we try to give to unofficial projects in the pipeline of becoming official | 20:59 |
| anteaya | piet_: I think you have done it, stand by | 20:59 |
| ttx | piet_: no, we'll make it happen | 20:59 |
| anteaya | piet_: yay, congratulations | 20:59 |
| piet_ | ttx Sweet | 20:59 |
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| fungi | dougwig: the vmt only has one git repo (at the moment), and is pretty constrained at being around 3-4 members most likely indefinitely. it could probably just be considered a cross-project effort and not need to be an official anything as far as i'm concerned | 21:00 |
| dougwig | fungi: right, if you want a PTL, go nuts. but it seems a heavyweight construct for one size fits all. | 21:00 |
| fungi | but i won't speak for the other three vmt members who don't seem to be in here at the moment | 21:00 |
| piet_ | ttx anteaya For the record, we're doing some good stuff these days | 21:00 |
| ttx | OK, so I'll start a thread on retiring teams without PTLs (and reducing their summit allocation) and see how it falls | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | fungi : we could designate it a working group if you'd rather. I don't know if it has any contributors who wouldn't otherwise get to vote in the tc elections. | 21:00 |
| ttx | and our time of off | 21:00 |
| anteaya | piet_: awesome! | 21:00 |
| ttx | is off | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | bye everyone | 21:01 |
| jroll | thanks ttx | 21:01 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i'm pretty sure we're all already atc on a consistent basis, so you're probably right | 21:01 |
| ttx | #action ttx to start a thread on retiring teams without PTLs (and reducing their summit allocation) and see how it falls | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, that's what I expected | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 21:01:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-20-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-20-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-20-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, a working group could be a better solution there | 21:01 |
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| oneswig | .... and ... relax | 21:02 |
| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific_wg | 21:02 |
| ttx | and sleep you mean | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 20 21:02:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:02 |
| oneswig | #chair b1airo | 21:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 21:02 |
| ttx | oneswig: sorry we were a bit late. | 21:02 |
| b1airo | morning | 21:02 |
| b1airo | np ttx ! | 21:02 |
| oneswig | ttx: no problem, you guys have to type fast! | 21:02 |
| priteau | Hello | 21:03 |
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| trandles | hi folks | 21:03 |
| martial | Hello | 21:03 |
| oneswig | Good afternoon, good evening, and good morning | 21:03 |
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| oneswig | #link Meeting agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_September_20th_2016 | 21:03 |
| b1airo | hi priteau , hi martial , hi trandles - good turn out! | 21:03 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: your turn to drive the bus? | 21:04 |
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| b1airo | sure | 21:05 |
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| b1airo | #topic Barcelona | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:05 | |
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| oneswig | We have confirmation - two rooms for BoF session, next to each other. 30 people capacity in each so not massive | 21:06 |
| rbudden | hello | 21:06 |
| oneswig | Hi rbudden | 21:06 |
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| martial | still pretty good | 21:06 |
| b1airo | hi rbudden | 21:06 |
| martial | I see on the agenda that poster are listed, so is this related ? | 21:06 |
| b1airo | yeah, though i don't think it is a space that can be merged, so two separate groups | 21:07 |
| oneswig | I think it'll work. The idea was to have talks in one and mixing (and possibly posters) in the other | 21:07 |
| priteau | oneswig: How long do we have the rooms for? | 21:07 |
| oneswig | 40 minutes | 21:07 |
| priteau | We'll have to be efficinet | 21:07 |
| oneswig | when are we ever not :-) | 21:08 |
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| martial | I feel like efficiency is what we are always trying to extract from our work :) | 21:08 |
| anteaya | I really would discourage posters, you will take a significant portion of your 40 minutres trying to organize them | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | Hi anteaya | 21:08 |
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| martial | anteaya: I understand your concern | 21:08 |
| anteaya | I know your audience likes them, but I don't think they would be practical at summit | 21:08 |
| anteaya | hey oneswig | 21:08 |
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| b1airo | hmm, it's a good point | 21:09 |
| anteaya | chairs and a projector are our usual fare | 21:09 |
| oneswig | It might depend on whether the rooms are used for something else before our slot | 21:09 |
| anteaya | oneswig: they will be | 21:09 |
| jmlowe | +1 on that, I always like to review posters in a leisurely fashion | 21:09 |
| martial | anteaya, b1airo: it would have been good to be able to do posters separate from the main meeting | 21:09 |
| b1airo | oneswig, we are not yet wedded to two concurrent rooms versus two back-to-back slots (1.5 hours) i thought? | 21:09 |
| anteaya | if they weren't you would have had the room | 21:09 |
| anteaya | martial: sure but summit really isn't a scientific poster kind of venue | 21:09 |
| oneswig | martial: there's a main meeting which is separate from the bof session | 21:09 |
| martial | otherwise we have to skip them I would agree | 21:10 |
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| oneswig | martial I am curious, do you have a specific poster in mind? It's possible to put it onto a flip chart and then make it into a lightning talk? | 21:11 |
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| b1airo | if there is enough interest i'm sure we could organise some space around the common areas to put a poster display (assuming the org. committee folks have the bandwidth to handle it) | 21:11 |
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| b1airo | then it could stay there the whole week | 21:11 |
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| martial | oneswig: I was more thinking that given that it is a scientific working group, our community is used to this type of work, and it might have been useful for people to present their work | 21:12 |
| priteau | b1airo: I think that would work better | 21:12 |
| oneswig | martial: for sure, it's a common thing to browse in a coffee break | 21:12 |
| oneswig | I agree | 21:12 |
| martial | oneswig: that said, I would understand if it was not possible to discuss it during the summit | 21:12 |
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| b1airo | #action b1airo to email list to gauge interest in posters | 21:13 |
| martial | b1airo: thanks | 21:13 |
| oneswig | ok, I suggest we ask if we can install them - this may be a non starter anyway. The time to setup is only a distraction for the person doing the setup | 21:13 |
| b1airo | think we need to know we'd at least have a committed handful before following up more? | 21:14 |
| oneswig | b1airo: agreed, one's a bit lonely | 21:14 |
| martial | oneswig, b1airo: agree :) | 21:14 |
| b1airo | oneswig, back to my earlier question on the slots... | 21:14 |
| b1airo | concurrent or back-to-back still seems to be open | 21:14 |
| martial | b1airo: back-to-back seems to make more sense | 21:15 |
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| oneswig | Actually I think concurrent for the Bof? We can fit in more people in two rooms | 21:15 |
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| b1airo | so i think concurrent is fine if we are splitting off to organise action on specific areas, but if we are more just networking etc then back to back is better | 21:16 |
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| rbudden | b1airo: +1 | 21:16 |
| rbudden | if we are trying to engage two major topics, then splitting seems logical, otherwise if it’s just networking i think more time would appeal (at least to me) | 21:17 |
| b1airo | oneswig, that's true but the two rooms can't communicate | 21:17 |
| oneswig | Concurrent is how the request is currently - one for lightning talks and the neighbour room for other discussion. | 21:17 |
| b1airo | (except via etherpad o_0) | 21:17 |
| oneswig | It's not clear if they join or are just next to one another... | 21:17 |
| b1airo | ah there's a follow up from Jimmy just a few hours ago | 21:18 |
| b1airo | "I think there was some confusion regarding "adjoining" vs. "next to". We do have 2 rooms next to each other, but they're not connected. So one, want to make sure that will work, otherwise we'll have to go to the informal room." | 21:18 |
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| b1airo | "Second, is your preference to have 2 rooms together at the same time (for 40 minutes), or to have the space for 1.5 hours, back to back? Basically, you have the option of having 2 40 min. Working Group sessions and 2 40 min. BoF sessions." | 21:18 |
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| anteaya | are you expecting more than 30 people to attend your sessions? | 21:19 |
| b1airo | anteaya, based on austin, yes | 21:19 |
| oneswig | anteaya: quite likely | 21:19 |
| anteaya | if yes, then I suggest concurrent, if no then I suggest consecutive | 21:19 |
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| oneswig | That's my assumption. Perhaps we can vote on it? | 21:20 |
| anteaya | otherwise you are going to have to deal with people who can't get in teh room | 21:20 |
| b1airo | seems like 2x rooms concurrently for 2x slots (1.5 hours) is the best option | 21:20 |
| b1airo | then we can be a bit flexible with how things turn out | 21:20 |
| oneswig | b1airo: sounds good to me | 21:21 |
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| oneswig | I'll respond to Jimmy | 21:22 |
| b1airo | one thing that i've maybe missed so far is whether this time needs to include an "official" working group report? | 21:22 |
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| anteaya | to whom would you report? | 21:22 |
| b1airo | our members / anyone interested | 21:23 |
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| oneswig | It's a good question, I'm not sure what kind of governance obligations we have to meet as a working group. Hmmm. | 21:23 |
| anteaya | an no, noone is going to require any output from you in exchange for a time slot | 21:23 |
| anteaya | you don't have any obligations | 21:23 |
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| anteaya | besides making good on any promises you make to others | 21:24 |
| oneswig | anteaya: that's my favourite response :-) | 21:24 |
| anteaya | folks will consume anything you produce | 21:24 |
| anteaya | but you aren't obliged in any way | 21:24 |
| anteaya | oneswig: :) | 21:24 |
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| b1airo | yeah i'm not thinking there was an obligation there, just wanting to make sure there weren't separate slots hiding | 21:24 |
| oneswig | So we should at least figure out a way to sit down and talk over how we are doing during the WG meeting slot | 21:25 |
| anteaya | oh okay, perhaps I mis-understood the original point | 21:25 |
| oneswig | In a way that works for the size of group | 21:25 |
| b1airo | oneswig, i'm thinking we can draft some sort of current state thing to put in an etherpad before the sessions (e.g. when we meet on the weekend) | 21:26 |
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| oneswig | Good plan. | 21:26 |
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| b1airo | if anyone wants to talk about it more they can in the BoF | 21:26 |
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| b1airo | that brings me to your earlier email... | 21:26 |
| b1airo | #topic US based chair | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "US based chair (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:27 | |
| oneswig | I had been thinking we ought to have a third co-chair from the Americas | 21:27 |
| b1airo | if only so we have someone else who feels obliged to do things :-D | 21:27 |
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| oneswig | helps to create some regional ties, and keep the WG aware of events in North America (or South) | 21:28 |
| martial | oneswig: can I get a job description ? | 21:28 |
| rbudden | martial: +1 | 21:28 |
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| oneswig | I'm not sure there is one to hand... | 21:28 |
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| anteaya | there isn't | 21:29 |
| trandles | oneswig: that implies you and b1airo have been making this up as you go along ;) | 21:29 |
| anteaya | mostly be available, be intersted and communicate | 21:29 |
| oneswig | Mostly, I try to keep in the back of my mind what's going on and whether it would be interesting to involve the WG on it | 21:29 |
| anteaya | the rest you learn as you go along | 21:29 |
| jmlowe | just out of curiosity, how many other people in the meeting are north americans? | 21:29 |
| oneswig | trandles: unthinkable! | 21:29 |
| rbudden | jmlowe: me obviously ;) | 21:30 |
| trandles | jmlowe: me | 21:30 |
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| jmlowe | N=3 and counting | 21:30 |
| b1airo | actually flanders posted something on user-committee recently that is a pretty good description | 21:30 |
| oneswig | Lots more than the 0900 slot, for some reason... | 21:30 |
| anteaya | oneswig: funny that | 21:30 |
| martial | martial: I am next to DC | 21:31 |
| jmlowe | N=4 | 21:31 |
| oneswig | 4 out of 7 present? | 21:32 |
| priteau | I am kind of half and half ;-) | 21:32 |
| oneswig | 4.5 and rising... | 21:32 |
| julian1 | Resident of North American here. (Transplanted from the Antipodes) | 21:32 |
| julian1 | -n | 21:33 |
| jmlowe | N=6ish, satisfies my curiosity | 21:33 |
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| martial | julian1: from France :) | 21:33 |
| oneswig | I think there's grounds for discussion and nomination at the WG session | 21:34 |
| b1airo | ah, finally found it! | 21:34 |
| b1airo | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2016-August/001205.html | 21:34 |
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| oneswig | Ah yes that's a good description | 21:35 |
| oneswig | Although I'm feeling bad about how many of these I actually do... | 21:35 |
| b1airo | that whole conversation is interesting and important, something to be followed up in barcelona | 21:35 |
| b1airo | i think the scientific-wg is interesting in this regard because we are not organised around any particular project, it's more of a common community | 21:36 |
| anteaya | that is a good list | 21:36 |
| anteaya | please if you want to talk on irc just the #openstack-dev channel | 21:37 |
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| anteaya | rather than create a new channel | 21:37 |
| b1airo | to that end i think there is potential to engage more broadly, e.g., to get attention/input on blueprints etc | 21:37 |
| anteaya | it encourages visability on what you are doing | 21:37 |
| oneswig | b1airo: we should make new-cycle resolutions to be more involved with those activities | 21:38 |
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| b1airo | #action oneswig to solicit interest in America's based co-chair | 21:38 |
| b1airo | +1 | 21:38 |
| martial | b1airo: I am interested in discussing the possibility if that is welcome | 21:39 |
| b1airo | i did woefully in that regard this cycle because i never had time to properly peruse everything (which continues to be harder and harder with big tent), so really need a way to highlight stuff | 21:39 |
| b1airo | martial, great thanks! let's take it to the list then to see if there was any other interest to include | 21:40 |
| oneswig | martial: I think it makes sense to have some regional organisation given it's so global | 21:40 |
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| b1airo | #topic working group dinner & drinks in barcelona | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "working group dinner & drinks in barcelona (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:40 | |
| oneswig | One item missing from Flanders' list is having a social gathering... | 21:41 |
| b1airo | oneswig, read my mind | 21:41 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, has put together a nice eventbrite and we've got at least one sponsor | 21:41 |
| anteaya | well I think it was not included on purpose since in the past some folks believe them to be required and then it becomes a status thing | 21:41 |
| julian1 | Yup. | 21:41 |
| anteaya | but folks are welcome to have them, and yours looks well organized | 21:42 |
| anteaya | well done | 21:42 |
| oneswig | #link Anyone who has not got a ticket yet go here https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/openstack-scientific-working-group-barcelona-social-tickets-27567156106 | 21:42 |
| oneswig | anteaya: thanks, but it remains to be seen if it is well organised | 21:42 |
| oneswig | :-) | 21:42 |
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| oneswig | 8 tickets left at current levels of subsidy... | 21:43 |
| anteaya | oneswig: well you are off to a good start | 21:43 |
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| trandles | wish I could attend but my wife is arriving on the 27th... | 21:43 |
| jmlowe | Any chance somebody fluent in Spanish will be attending, I'm a bit ashamed to say I don't really speak any? | 21:43 |
| anteaya | I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt | 21:44 |
| oneswig | trandles: tickets for 2? What better dinner date than this? | 21:44 |
| rbudden | jmlowe: +1 | 21:44 |
| oneswig | We have at least one spanish national attending | 21:44 |
| martial | 7 left :) | 21:44 |
| b1airo | oneswig, lol - i reckon my wife could answer that question pretty comprehensively | 21:44 |
| oneswig | excellent! | 21:44 |
| anteaya | jmlowe: I don't speak any of the languages of any of the non english speaking summit locations and I've never had a problem | 21:44 |
| jmlowe | excellent! | 21:45 |
| fungi | i'm led to understand the locals in barcelona speak catalan, which is almost nothing like spanish (though they are generally also fluent in spanish) | 21:45 |
| anteaya | I usually learn please thank you and excuse me and I've done okay so far | 21:45 |
| trandles | oneswig: maybe, thx for that, depends on if her mum and dad arrive on the 27th or 28th...they live in Geneve | 21:45 |
| oneswig | for the record, I speak Spanish with a perfect English accent :-) | 21:45 |
| b1airo | :-D | 21:45 |
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| anteaya | oneswig: ha ha ha | 21:45 |
| b1airo | #topic Supercomputing'16 | 21:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Supercomputing'16 (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:46 | |
| b1airo | firstly, i thought we should try to get a list of working group folks who are attending SC | 21:46 |
| oneswig | b1airo: do you have a link to the SC schedule? | 21:47 |
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| trandles | my SC travel was approved | 21:47 |
| b1airo | in its full glory: http://sc16.supercomputing.org/full-program/ | 21:47 |
| oneswig | I expect to be there (first timer...) | 21:47 |
| martial | oneswig, b1airo: unclear if I will be coming to SC16 in the end, will know on Oct 5th | 21:47 |
| priteau | I am not going, but I think Kate will be there. | 21:48 |
| jmlowe | I'm meeting with our communications office about the booth talks on Friday morning, I should have updates to send to the list shortly thereafter | 21:48 |
| b1airo | thanks jmlowe | 21:49 |
| trandles | I'll only be there half of the 14th and all day on the 15th. I need to get back here for something the rest of the week. | 21:49 |
| b1airo | priteau, yes i hope Kate will be there, she is listed on the panel! | 21:49 |
| rbudden | i’ll be there for the week | 21:49 |
| jmlowe | M-F for myself | 21:49 |
| rbudden | still available if there is anything that I can help with at our booth | 21:49 |
| rbudden | papers, talks, etc. | 21:49 |
| rbudden | jmlowe may have it all covered already though ;) | 21:50 |
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| b1airo | has anyone found anything on the schedule that looks relevant to the community, i.e., that we might want to point folks to? | 21:50 |
| b1airo | obviously there is http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=bof180&sess=sess361 | 21:51 |
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| b1airo | and http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=pan127&sess=sess184 | 21:51 |
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| b1airo | Kate also has a BoF: Experimental Infrastructure and Methodology for HPC Cloud Research (http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=bof200&sess=sess368) | 21:51 |
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| oneswig | Does that bird have more feathers than Chameleon? | 21:52 |
| b1airo | and there are a few student research papers that might be interesting | 21:52 |
| jmlowe | cloudlab? | 21:53 |
| b1airo | oh and another BoF! "HPC Virtualization and Cloud in the OpenHPC Context" http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=bof190&sess=sess364 | 21:53 |
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| b1airo | plus a panel "HPC File Systems, Challenges, and Use Cases" (http://sc16.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=pan120&sess=sess185) with Sage Weil (Ceph) amongst others | 21:55 |
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| oneswig | Something interesting on using QoS in storage networks: http://sc16.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=post248&sess=sess318 | 21:56 |
| oneswig | thats a poster, that is | 21:56 |
| b1airo | a few papers on scheduling that might be relevant too | 21:56 |
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| b1airo | should be a fun & busy conference for us by the look of it | 21:57 |
| b1airo | #topic AOB | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:57 | |
| oneswig | I thought I'd share this experience | 21:58 |
| oneswig | I went to OpenStack Day UK and met priteau | 21:58 |
| priteau | I went to OpenStack Day UK and met oneswig | 21:58 |
| anteaya | sounds like openstack day uk was the place to be | 21:58 |
| b1airo | hahaha | 21:59 |
| oneswig | There were 125 attendees - all male - incredible (and shocking!) | 21:59 |
| priteau | He gave an excellent talk! | 21:59 |
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| martial | sounds like it was fun I agree :) | 21:59 |
| oneswig | priteau: ha, thanks! Might put it in for the lightning talk in Barcelona | 21:59 |
| b1airo | really oneswig, that's a bit sad, but well done on the talk | 21:59 |
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| oneswig | thanks b1airo. I'd not seen this at a conference before | 22:00 |
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| b1airo | normally 95% though :-/ | 22:00 |
| oneswig | Is there anything the WG might do in support of Women of OpenStack I wonder | 22:01 |
| oneswig | not sure what | 22:01 |
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| anteaya | or just women working in openstack | 22:01 |
| fungi | sorry to interject on the earlier "posters" topic (looks like you don't have time today for an open discussion period), but i got word back from the summit organizers and they said if you have a need for some central/common area where you can display research then contact summit@openstack.org with the details. i expect it's unlikely they can work something out this late in the timeline given they | 22:01 |
| fungi | have to get venue approval for any displays (this doesn't work the way academic conferences do), but it's worth a shot i guess | 22:01 |
| anteaya | not all women are represented by Women of OpenStack | 22:01 |
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| oneswig | fungi: wow, thanks for that! | 22:02 |
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| anteaya | well I do have some suggestions, if you are going to be attending an event reach out to your female colleges and ask if they also will be attending | 22:02 |
| b1airo | thanks fungi ! | 22:02 |
| oneswig | We are over time alas | 22:02 |
| martial | fungi: thanks, very cool | 22:02 |
| b1airo | anteaya, +1 | 22:02 |
| anteaya | encourage them to submit speaking proposals, offer to review them for them by way of encouragement | 22:02 |
| trandles | said something to the missus about dinner and drinks on the 27th...my wife must know b1airo's wife... | 22:03 |
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| b1airo | (my way of encouragement this time around was to write the proposal and then put my colleagues name on it :-D ) | 22:03 |
| anteaya | to the extent you can remember, try to use the terms folks people or group rather than guys when referring to a group, even if the group is all men | 22:03 |
| b1airo | #endmeeting | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 20 22:03:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-20-21.02.html | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-20-21.02.txt | 22:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-20-21.02.log.html | 22:03 |
| anteaya | b1airo: yay, thank you | 22:03 |
| anteaya | oneswig: I have more thoughts anytime you want to hear them | 22:04 |
| b1airo | whoops, let that spill over a bit | 22:04 |
| anteaya | oneswig: thanks for caring enough to raise the topic | 22:04 |
| oneswig | Thanks anteaya, always good to hear them | 22:04 |
| anteaya | oneswig: thanks for asking | 22:04 |
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| b1airo | one way is to support groups and sessions on gender diversity | 22:04 |
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| anteaya | yes, personally I find them not to be effective | 22:05 |
| b1airo | e.g. at both the summit and SC there are relevant items on the programme - go to them | 22:05 |
| anteaya | but others may find them useful | 22:05 |
| priteau | oneswig: I sat in front of a women during one of the talk so I am sure there was at least one! | 22:05 |
| oneswig | priteau: then I stand corrected :-) | 22:05 |
| priteau | but still, sad to see such a low ratio | 22:05 |
| anteaya | i find those that go are usually not the ones that need the most support | 22:05 |
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| anteaya | but if folks find them useful then wonderful | 22:06 |
| oneswig | Saw a good article once, "The loneliness of the female engineer", was very instructive at the time | 22:06 |
| b1airo | must run - work to get to etc. have a great day, afternoon, evening, sleep, etc! | 22:06 |
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| oneswig | Until next time | 22:06 |
| rbudden | ditto | 22:06 |
| rbudden | catch ya’ll later | 22:06 |
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| anteaya | b1airo: oneswig thanks for another great meeting | 22:06 |
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| oneswig | Thanks as always anteaya | 22:07 |
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| priteau | bye everyone | 22:08 |
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| martial | bye everyone, until next time | 22:08 |
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