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dhellmann | #startmeeting releaseteam | 14:02 |
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openstack | Meeting started Fri Jun 10 14:02:43 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:02 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam' | 14:02 |
ttx | o/ | 14:02 |
dhellmann | courtesy ping: ttx, dims, lifeless, tonyb, stevemar, fungi | 14:02 |
dhellmann | If you would like for me to add you to the courtesy ping please say so | 14:02 |
dhellmann | our agenda is at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-relmgt-tracking | 14:02 |
dhellmann | this week is R-17 | 14:02 |
dims | o/ | 14:03 |
dhellmann | #topic tag merging issue | 14:03 |
*** openstack changes topic to "tag merging issue (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:03 | |
dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096895.html | 14:03 |
dhellmann | ttx, based on your email it seems like the consensus is that it's OK to stop merging tags, so unless anyone disagrees I'll work on that patch to project-config | 14:03 |
ttx | yeah... I tried to remember the initial reason | 14:04 |
dhellmann | I think what you described was similar to what fungi remembered when we talked about it the other day in -infra | 14:04 |
dhellmann | basically, it looks weird to humans who are expecting to see all versions when asking for tags along master | 14:05 |
ttx | I /think/ it's what I described (in which case it is not current anymore), so wanted to throw it out there and see if anybody screamed | 14:05 |
fungi | sorry, around now. had to step away for a bit | 14:05 |
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dhellmann | fungi : np, thanks for making the time | 14:06 |
dhellmann | so should I wait a few days before making any changes? | 14:06 |
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ttx | dhellmann: main issue with the solution is that we have to wait for the n+1 commit to tag | 14:06 |
ttx | we can trigger a n+1 commit but we still have delay while it gets accepted (much like setup.cfg) | 14:06 |
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dhellmann | why do we need to wait? | 14:07 |
ttx | unless we can somehow automate it, but it sounds like a complex trigger | 14:07 |
ttx | you need a commit that is only on master, right, so a new one after branch point | 14:07 |
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ttx | on which to apply the a0 tag on | 14:08 |
dhellmann | yeah, it means after creating the stable branch, some time in the next day or so we need to add a tag. I don't see that as too big of a deal if we miss a few patches, do you? | 14:08 |
fungi | yeah, otherwise git will show it on the old branch too, which you don't want | 14:08 |
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fungi | so need at least one commit's divergence | 14:09 |
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ttx | it's still painful to track | 14:09 |
dhellmann | yes, true | 14:09 |
ttx | some slow teams will take forever | 14:09 |
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dhellmann | we already ask them to tag before branching. we could ask them to have that patch in place already. | 14:09 |
ttx | so ideally we would have some automation to do it for us | 14:09 |
dhellmann | even if it's just a whitespace change to the readme or something | 14:09 |
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dhellmann | IOW, have both patches in place before creating the branch, and don't branch from HEAD | 14:10 |
ttx | the way I saw it, this is a technical tag that would not go through openstack/releases | 14:10 |
ttx | i.e. no need for a change by release liaison and all | 14:10 |
dhellmann | sure, that's fine | 14:10 |
dhellmann | I meant the patch in the project tree | 14:10 |
ttx | it still means tracking who did it and who did not | 14:11 |
dhellmann | true. we'll need to work that out. what we have now is producing erroneous release notes, so I really do think we need to change something. | 14:11 |
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ttx | We alsmot need a zuul trigger that would detect first-patch-after-stable-branching and trigger a tag job | 14:12 |
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ttx | dhellmann: sure, I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. Just saying it's inconvenient and we should not overlook that | 14:12 |
fungi | could just run a post job on every commit and have it no-op if it's not the first commit on master after the branch point | 14:12 |
dhellmann | that does sound challenging. it would be relatively straightforward to add a validation check for rc1 tags to say they can't be from HEAD. | 14:12 |
fungi | though that would no-op 10k times for every positive | 14:13 |
dhellmann | yeah | 14:13 |
ttx | dhellmann: ah, so force people to submit another patch before they can even have their rc1 | 14:13 |
dhellmann | ttx: right | 14:13 |
dhellmann | we don't care what that patch is, we don't care if they eventually back-port it, etc. but it has to be present. | 14:14 |
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ttx | dhellmann: that sounds a bit tricky to communicate but we can give it a try. No better answer anyway | 14:14 |
dhellmann | we can tag that first, then tag rc1, then branch | 14:14 |
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dhellmann | yeah, it will take some documentation (more on that later) | 14:14 |
ttx | (for reference, that is what we did for setup.cfg) | 14:15 |
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dhellmann | yeah, this will be a little looser, since the patch can be anything at all | 14:15 |
ttx | Historically we asked them to bump setup.cfg, and I would branch stable/* from previous commit | 14:15 |
ttx | so setup.cfg merging was the signoff for stable branching | 14:15 |
ttx | It was slightly more explicit and integrated than asking them to coordinate RC1 tag and extra commit | 14:16 |
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ttx | but not impossible to explain | 14:16 |
fungi | though i thought that was recognized as a sort of fragile inconvenience in the old process | 14:16 |
dhellmann | having to synchronize this at all is annoying and fragile :-) | 14:16 |
fungi | so would be unfortunate if we're having to reintroduce a similar workflow | 14:16 |
ttx | well, the idea was to remove the core team from the equation | 14:16 |
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dhellmann | another option is for us to stop merging tags and stop fretting about master appearing to be older than the stable branch. | 14:16 |
ttx | so that you could do everything with release team | 14:16 |
ttx | and asking for another patch to land on master before you tag RC1 means putting the core review team in the loop again | 14:17 |
fungi | i'm personally fine with just status quo and stop the merge job, but someone will have to field all the complaints | 14:17 |
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dhellmann | we could also just wait until the week after the release and tag whatever head is at that point | 14:17 |
dhellmann | assuming it's not still their rc1 | 14:18 |
ttx | dhellmann: we could have a script that we run weekly to catch the missing tags | 14:18 |
dhellmann | "list all cycle-with-milestone repos, get head of master, if there are no tags on that patch tag it a1" | 14:18 |
ttx | i.e. detect first-patch-after-stable-branching and see if it has tag | 14:18 |
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dhellmann | ok, I sort of like that | 14:19 |
fungi | especially from continuous deployers who are now annoyed that their packages from master are "older" versions than the latest release | 14:19 |
ttx | right | 14:19 |
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dhellmann | so a periodic job? | 14:19 |
fungi | sorry, lag | 14:19 |
ttx | we run it until it says everything is covered | 14:19 |
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dhellmann | run by hand? | 14:19 |
ttx | doesn't have to be daily, can be weekly at release meeting | 14:19 |
ttx | yeah | 14:19 |
ttx | that way they are not in the critical path | 14:19 |
dhellmann | ok, that's better than coordinating with the core teams | 14:19 |
ttx | and at most one week worth of versioning confusion | 14:20 |
dhellmann | ttx: ok, do you want to think about how to write that script? | 14:20 |
ttx | and if for some reason it takes forever we can then push a change for a whitespace change | 14:20 |
ttx | dhellmann: that would be a good exercise for me yes | 14:20 |
fungi | i think we can accommodate just about any workflow you want via automation, as long as you can settle on which is the least annoying path for the release team from a human interaction and tracking perspective | 14:20 |
ttx | fungi: we could run that as a daily job, although that would mean unsigned tags | 14:21 |
ttx | or at least machine-signed tags | 14:21 |
dhellmann | if machine signed tags are good enough for the release, they should be good enough for this | 14:21 |
ttx | anyway, we have a path forward. Let's do it manually first | 14:21 |
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dhellmann | sounds good | 14:21 |
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* ttx adds notes to meeting | 14:22 | |
dhellmann | #agreed ttx to work on a script to identify "first commit after stable branch" and apply a tag | 14:22 |
dhellmann | #topic automation update (fungi) | 14:22 |
*** openstack changes topic to "automation update (fungi) (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:22 | |
fungi | yeah, machine-signed | 14:22 |
dhellmann | so speaking of machine-signed tags... :-) | 14:23 |
fungi | no major update, pushing the change today that adds teh signing node | 14:23 |
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ttx | dhellmann: oh, and would be great if somewhow that tag did not trigger post-tag jobs | 14:23 |
ttx | like announcements | 14:23 |
fungi | still have a little more work to do on the piece which handles key deployment to the machine | 14:23 |
dhellmann | ttx: I think we already don't announce pre-releases but we can make sure of that | 14:23 |
ttx | oh right | 14:23 |
* ttx shuts up now | 14:23 | |
fungi | could certainly adjust the announcements job to not announce alphas | 14:23 |
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fungi | even if you wanted beta milestone tags announced | 14:24 |
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dhellmann | fungi : so it sounds like we're getting close to ready to start moving some of the release tools scripts into project-config? | 14:24 |
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fungi | anyway, that was more or less my update. should have more in place later today | 14:24 |
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dhellmann | great, thank you | 14:24 |
fungi | and yes, we could in theory move those scripts at any point now | 14:24 |
dhellmann | ok, I have some other things that are more urgent, but that's getting close to the top of my priority list now | 14:25 |
dhellmann | moving on... | 14:25 |
dhellmann | #topic email notification for release pipeline job failures | 14:25 |
*** openstack changes topic to "email notification for release pipeline job failures (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:25 | |
fungi | good. the release automation work has mostly bubbled to the surface for my priorities at this point in the cycle as well | 14:25 |
dhellmann | #undo | 14:25 |
openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7fe23758dc90> | 14:25 |
dhellmann | ok, I've been holding off moving the scripts until we were ready to actually define a job and be able to run it, but I'll reconsider that (we can run the release scripts from project-config by hand just as easily as from release-tools) | 14:26 |
dhellmann | #topic email notification for release pipeline job failures | 14:26 |
*** openstack changes topic to "email notification for release pipeline job failures (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:26 | |
* fungi notes that #undo of a #topic doesn't roll back the irc channel topic | 14:26 | |
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dhellmann | we've had a little trouble keeping up with what release jobs have failed, relying on the project teams or consumers to notice that a package wasn't built and then debugging the failure | 14:27 |
dhellmann | yesterday jeblair pointed out that it's possible to have zuul send us email when a job fails | 14:27 |
dhellmann | or at least when something in a given pipeline fails, I'm not clear on all of the filtering abilities yet | 14:27 |
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fungi | yeah, i think it's just all failures, all successes, or both | 14:28 |
dhellmann | my plan is to create a new mailing list, and set that list up to receive notifications when any tag, release, release-post, etc. jobs fail | 14:28 |
fungi | at the moment | 14:28 |
fungi | note there will be a ton of failures since a lot of non-reno'd projects seem to have added the release announcements jobs | 14:28 |
dhellmann | I think either "all" or "all failures" would be fine | 14:28 |
dhellmann | oh, probably because I added the announcement job to the template | 14:29 |
dhellmann | not having reno shouldn't be causing that to fail | 14:29 |
jeblair | 'all failures in pipeline' is what we have right now | 14:29 |
ttx | I think that's fine | 14:29 |
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dhellmann | yeah, that's way better than "only when someone complains" :-) | 14:29 |
fungi | oh, i assumed it was lack of release notes, but regardless i notice lots of "failing" release announcement jobs and they're for stuff that isn't release-managed | 14:29 |
dhellmann | fungi : it's probably because they don't have URLs in their README for their bug tracker, etc. | 14:29 |
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ttx | dhellmann: although we'd likely only cover release pipelines, not the post one | 14:30 |
dhellmann | yeah, I'll have to look at what's in each pipeline | 14:30 |
dhellmann | I'll include everyone on the patches to do that | 14:30 |
dhellmann | does anyone want to suggest a name for the mailing list? | 14:30 |
ttx | release-job-failures ? | 14:30 |
fungi | so, yeah, propose a change to openstack-infra/system-config for the modules/openstack_project/manifests/lists.pp file to add the ml you want to use for this once you bikeshed a name | 14:30 |
ttx | The most interesting mailing list you'll ever subscribe to ! | 14:31 |
dhellmann | ttx: works for me | 14:31 |
dhellmann | fungi : yep, watch for that today or monday :-) | 14:31 |
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ttx | 13-interesting-ways-release-jobs-can-fail@lists.openstack.org | 14:31 |
fungi | an alternative might be to get these reporting on the health dashboard (and so also available via rss). i don't know what's involved to make that happen though | 14:32 |
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dhellmann | fungi : I'd like that, too. I think we need to set up the sql integration (I can't remember the name of that plugin thing mtreinish built). I like the push notification aspect of email, though | 14:33 |
* dhellmann imagines a bat signal plugin for zuul | 14:33 | |
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mtreinish | dhellmann: subunit2sql. Fwiw, it's really easy to add subunit generation to jobs | 14:34 |
dhellmann | mtreinish : thanks, I was thinking testr2sql and knew that was wrong | 14:34 |
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mtreinish | dhellmann: AJaeger and I did it pretty quickly for the translation jobs | 14:34 |
dhellmann | mtreinish : we don't have any "tests" in these jobs, and they don't use subunit. | 14:34 |
dhellmann | ah, ok, so maybe that's not a requirement | 14:34 |
fungi | dhellmann: all you'd need is a rpi2 with a cron job and a blinkenlicht | 14:34 |
dhellmann | fungi : so now I have a project for this spare rpi2 sitting on my shelf | 14:35 |
mtreinish | dhellmann: right, but there is a cli utility I wrote you give it a name and a couple timestamps and a status and it'll generate a subunit file for you | 14:35 |
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dhellmann | mtreinish : oh, cool. are there docs for that somewhere? | 14:35 |
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dhellmann | we talked about this a while back when I didn't have a lot of time to dig into it | 14:35 |
mtreinish | dhellmann: err, I don't think I actually wrote docs for generate subunit (I'll fix that today) but the script is here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/os-testr/tree/os_testr/generate_subunit.py | 14:36 |
dhellmann | mtreinish : ok, I'll take a look at adding that, too | 14:37 |
dhellmann | thanks! | 14:37 |
mtreinish | dhellmann: and here is how the translation jobs call it: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/jenkins/scripts/common_translation_update.sh#n64 | 14:37 |
dhellmann | oh, good, an example will help a lot | 14:37 |
dhellmann | cool, so I'll put that on our list, too | 14:38 |
dhellmann | we have 2 more topics to cover today, let's move on | 14:38 |
dhellmann | #topic reno changes for osc project | 14:38 |
*** openstack changes topic to "reno changes for osc project (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:38 | |
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dhellmann | dtroyer wants to have version-specific pages instead of release series pages, which is possible now, but it would be easier with a latest-release field similar to earliest-release | 14:38 |
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dhellmann | I'd like to have someone else know the reno code a bit, so does anyone want to take a stab at adding that? | 14:39 |
ttx | depends how fast you need it | 14:39 |
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dhellmann | there's no rush | 14:39 |
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dhellmann | he has a list of versions now, and is ok with manually updating that, but over the long term this will make it easier | 14:40 |
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ttx | I can add it to my list | 14:41 |
dhellmann | cool, thanks | 14:41 |
ttx | but that's the sort of things that tend to slip from my TODO forever, so at some point we should do a timecheck :) | 14:41 |
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ttx | and someone with more bandwidth could pick it up | 14:41 |
dhellmann | will do. I'll add it to the tracking docs so we don't lose it | 14:41 |
dhellmann | #topic release manager's manual | 14:42 |
*** openstack changes topic to "release manager's manual (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:42 | |
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ttx | dhellmann: ok, and if you could describe the required feature in a bit more detail (on the etherpad or on an email to me) that would be awesome | 14:42 |
dhellmann | ttx: of course, I'll write that up in the etherpad | 14:42 |
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dhellmann | I'd like to get started building the release manual. Where should we put it and where should we publish it? | 14:43 |
ttx | define scope again. It's for release managers ? | 14:43 |
ttx | or liaisons ? Or both | 14:43 |
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dhellmann | maybe a bit of both? basically, all of the procedural instructions we have | 14:44 |
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dhellmann | some of what's in the releases/README.rst might move there | 14:44 |
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ttx | My take is, instructions for project teams (release liaisons) should live in the pTG | 14:45 |
dhellmann | but we'd also have things like the processes for handling each milestone, the process making the stable branches, etc. | 14:45 |
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ttx | while instructions for release managers should live somewhere specific | 14:45 |
fungi | releases repo readme? | 14:45 |
dhellmann | that makes sense | 14:45 |
dhellmann | the split does | 14:46 |
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dhellmann | yeah, the readme may be a good place for release manager instructions. it's simpler than publishing a whole new manual if we're going to split the other bits out to the ptg | 14:46 |
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ttx | For the team documentation, most other OpenStack project teams leverage an existing repo, or the wiki | 14:46 |
* fungi shudders at mention of the wiki | 14:47 | |
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dhellmann | I don't want to use the wiki for this. | 14:47 |
dhellmann | we already have a todo to clean up our wiki presence | 14:47 |
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dhellmann | I'll start working on patches for the existing documents, and if we decide something doesn't fit in either we can revisit | 14:47 |
ttx | so if we push it to openstack/releases, would we publish in some subdirectory there ? | 14:47 |
ttx | or somewhere else completely ? Or not publish ? | 14:48 |
dhellmann | if it's in the readme, I don't think we need to publish it | 14:48 |
ttx | ok | 14:48 |
fungi | "publish" it the same way http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/requirements/tree/README.rst is "published" | 14:48 |
dhellmann | yeah | 14:48 |
fungi | i find that entirely readable | 14:49 |
ttx | I would probably separate README - for people submitting changes to that repo or trying to figure out what it is) from process | 14:49 |
dhellmann | ok, a separate rst file works, too | 14:49 |
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dhellmann | I think a lot of what I have in mind can be written in a way that is usable both to the liaisons and release team, so that can go into the ptg | 14:49 |
ttx | So keep README.rst for "what is this about ?" and basic info on file structure | 14:49 |
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dhellmann | even if it's just "this is what will happen, liaisons don't need to do it" it's still informative | 14:50 |
dhellmann | "please pay attention to the man behind the curtain" | 14:50 |
ttx | then some "Process.rst" for out team doc | 14:50 |
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ttx | Yeah, I just don't want to overload the PTG too much | 14:51 |
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dhellmann | ok, I'll start by assembling a list of topics to document and we can see what goes where | 14:51 |
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ttx | Currently the PTG rewrite points to the README.rst | 14:51 |
ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/324540/ | 14:51 |
ttx | "See the `README file in that repository`_ for more details." | 14:52 |
* dhellmann adds that to his review queue | 14:52 | |
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ttx | agreed / mix of README.rst, OtherFile.rst and PTG should do it | 14:53 |
dhellmann | speaking of reviews | 14:53 |
dhellmann | #topic priority reviews | 14:53 |
*** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:53 | |
ttx | depending on level of external exposure wanted | 14:53 |
dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/324540/ - updates the PTG | 14:53 |
dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322863/ - proposed release ACL dance model | 14:53 |
ttx | Anything in releases changes that I should pay immediate attention to ? Been in catchup mode today | 14:54 |
dhellmann | ttx: yeah, my original goal was to have enough instructions written down that someone could use them to train to do the release work. it changes enough that it might not be possible, though | 14:54 |
dhellmann | ttx: you may want to look at the patches we pushed through yesterday to add the "team" field to deliverable files instead of relying on the governance repo definition of teams | 14:54 |
dhellmann | those were turning into rebase issues, so we pushed them in with the agreement that we'd change things as needed | 14:55 |
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ttx | ack, will post-review them :) | 14:55 |
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dhellmann | otherwise the queue is empty so just the 2 items you listed | 14:55 |
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dhellmann | I think we're going to need to do something similar to the team field for other changes. for instance, deliverable definitions change over time, and their release models and tags change | 14:56 |
dhellmann | we might need to turn off some of the validation we have for those things, or modify it to look at local tag definitions and only fall back to the governance repo | 14:56 |
dhellmann | otherwise we'll have trouble releasing stable versions of things if the governance repo has changed | 14:57 |
dhellmann | #topic open discussion | 14:57 |
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:57 | |
dhellmann | is there anything else we need to mention? | 14:57 |
dhellmann | I have jury duty next week, so I don't know what my schedule is going to be like yet | 14:58 |
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dhellmann | ok, that's time | 14:59 |
dhellmann | thanks everyone! | 14:59 |
ttx | ack | 14:59 |
dhellmann | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jun 10 14:59:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-06-10-14.02.html | 14:59 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-06-10-14.02.txt | 14:59 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-06-10-14.02.log.html | 14:59 |
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Neko__ | Huh. Expected at least a little bit of talk in the room | 21:15 |
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anteaya | Neko__: this is a meeting channel and it is Friday | 21:20 |
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anteaya | Neko__: if you want chat I suggest #openstack-dev or one of the project channels | 21:20 |
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Neko__ | I just wanted to see what people would be talking about, maybe I'll look into that later | 21:21 |
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anteaya | Neko__: like I said this is a meeting channel, if you want to understand what folks are talking about I suggest #openstack-dev or one of the project channels | 21:22 |
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Neko__ | Alright thanks | 21:24 |
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