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| yamamoto | hi | 06:58 |
|---|---|---|
| joejoe | hi | 06:59 |
| ryu25 | hello | 06:59 |
| yamamoto | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 23 07:00:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:00 | |
| kitsuneninetails | hello! | 07:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:00 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Agenda | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:00 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:00 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Announcements | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:00 | |
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| yamamoto | i have no announcements. does anyone have any? | 07:01 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Bugs | 07:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:02 | |
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| yamamoto | there's no bugs which is critical and new | 07:02 |
| ryu25 | nice! | 07:02 |
| yamamoto | does anyone have any bug which needs wider attention? | 07:03 |
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| ryu25 | i don't | 07:03 |
| yamamoto | #topic make tempest jobs voting? | 07:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "make tempest jobs voting? (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:04 | |
| yamamoto | i propose to make our tempest jobs voting | 07:04 |
| ryu25 | i'm ok with that | 07:05 |
| yamamoto | it has been non-voting for reasons but we now can disable tests with devstackgaterc | 07:05 |
| ryu25 | right we can take fast action | 07:05 |
| yamamoto | i'll submit project-config patch. | 07:06 |
| kitsuneninetails | is this just a tempest job via devstack? | 07:06 |
| kitsuneninetails | so, single-node all-in-one? | 07:06 |
| kitsuneninetails | and just upstream tempest tests? | 07:06 |
| yamamoto | kitsuneninetails: yes | 07:06 |
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| yamamoto | #topic what to do for stadium concept discussion? | 07:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "what to do for stadium concept discussion? (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:08 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/281628/ | 07:08 |
| yamamoto | ryu made a commet on the review. thank you. | 07:09 |
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| ryu25 | yeah, I am conflicted about this patch | 07:10 |
| yamamoto | my understanding is ideally we want "midonet" as a big-tent project and make networking-midonet a part of it, right? | 07:10 |
| ryu25 | they don't necessary have to be the same, but i think it makes sense to put them together if they can be | 07:11 |
| yamamoto | so being out of neutron staduim is not bad. | 07:11 |
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| ryu25 | if networking-midonet can become a big tent project, then we can always add midonet there as well right? | 07:12 |
| ryu25 | i think that is more realistic | 07:12 |
| yamamoto | i'm not sure. i guess we should avoid playing tricks. | 07:12 |
| ryu25 | it may be considered trickery but i don't know if it really is | 07:13 |
| ryu25 | but i guess that's a conversation to have later | 07:13 |
| yamamoto | ryu25: do you know what was a blocker of midonet as a big-tent project? | 07:13 |
| ryu25 | not in detail, but at one point, i believe Java/Scala got in the way | 07:14 |
| ryu25 | though apparently that was not really a true blocker | 07:14 |
| ryu25 | but it also demanded that the openstack infrastructure is updated to handle java projects | 07:14 |
| yamamoto | then, just a matter of priority on our side? | 07:14 |
| ryu25 | that and also a question to whether such effort is really worthy at all | 07:15 |
| ryu25 | i can't really answer that part myself | 07:15 |
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| yamamoto | i see | 07:16 |
| ryu25 | but i would say that it's still something to consider | 07:16 |
| ryu25 | i think the conversation has stopped though | 07:16 |
| ryu25 | but not completely dead | 07:16 |
| ryu25 | so we can leave it off as a priority issue for now and that's not far from the truth | 07:17 |
| yamamoto | ok | 07:17 |
| yamamoto | thank you for explanation | 07:17 |
| ryu25 | there may be other reasons that I'm not aware of though | 07:17 |
| ryu25 | np! | 07:17 |
| yamamoto | let's move on | 07:17 |
| yamamoto | #topic Open Discussion | 07:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:17 | |
| ryu25 | python-midonetclient repository will be removed (or at least deprecated) | 07:18 |
| ryu25 | today i tried doing pip install of networking-midonet and got stuck with midonetclient dependency missing. And noticed that python-midonetclient package is not hosted in pypi | 07:18 |
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| ryu25 | anyone know anything about that? | 07:19 |
| ryu25 | btw, I still think that we can move the python client code used in neutron to networking-midonet project and lose the dependency to python-midonetclient completely... but that is a separate discussion | 07:19 |
| yamamoto | we haven't had it on pypi afaik | 07:20 |
| ryu25 | i'll be happy to discuss it offline if anyone is interested | 07:20 |
| ryu25 | really? i thought Jaume put it up there at one point. Maybe i'm forgetting something | 07:20 |
| ryu25 | ok well that explains it | 07:20 |
| yamamoto | why the repository will be removed? | 07:21 |
| yamamoto | in favor of the one in midonet repo? | 07:21 |
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| ryu25 | yes, that is the preferred approach (not mine) and it will not be changed | 07:22 |
| yamamoto | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/283026/ | 07:23 |
| yamamoto | is this a part of the move? | 07:23 |
| ryu25 | yes i believe so | 07:24 |
| ryu25 | this is one reason why I prefer to move the neutron API code out of midonet and into networking-midonet | 07:25 |
| ryu25 | the dependency is very small | 07:25 |
| yamamoto | are there folks to prefer to keep it in midonet? | 07:26 |
| ryu25 | yes, at least I know the main midonet contributors prefer it that way | 07:27 |
| ryu25 | oh wait, are you referring to the neutron client code? | 07:27 |
| ryu25 | that one, i don't think anyone cares too strongly | 07:27 |
| ryu25 | python-midonetclient project, people have strogn preferences | 07:27 |
| yamamoto | yes, my question was about neutronclient | 07:28 |
| yamamoto | maybe mdts or something uses it? | 07:28 |
| ryu25 | yes there are strong supporters. | 07:28 |
| ryu25 | yup mdts does | 07:28 |
| yamamoto | i tend to think mdts and python-midonetclient should be out of midonet repo but i guess this meeting is not right place to discuss. | 07:30 |
| ryu25 | i agree with that though i certainly see their view with regards to simplifying maintenance | 07:31 |
| yamamoto | kitsuneninetails: do you have any idea when zephyr gets ready to consume for networking-midonet gate jobs? | 07:32 |
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| kitsuneninetails | would it need to run in a devstack env? | 07:32 |
| kitsuneninetails | if it can just run by itself and execute tests, whenever we want to create the jenkins jobs for it should be fine | 07:33 |
| kitsuneninetails | if it has to run with devstack, it'll be a little bit | 07:33 |
| ryu25 | kitsuneninetails: that would be very cool to be able to run with devstack | 07:34 |
| kitsuneninetails | It's planned, but it'll take some dev work | 07:34 |
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| ryu25 | understood, and i'll be more than happy to help out on that effort | 07:35 |
| yamamoto | kitsuneninetails: it doesn't have a way to run against an existing deployment? | 07:35 |
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| kitsuneninetails | it's planned, but no, not currently. Currently it uses the running neutron deployment, but will bring up and tear down the midonet environment (including tearing down any neutron data along with the midonet-specific data) | 07:36 |
| kitsuneninetails | I am trying to get it running against an existing env without creation/teardown, but devstack is hard-locked to using "screen", and I am trying to come up with a way to send a ctrl-C to a screen session so I can restart midolman when necessary | 07:38 |
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| yamamoto | do you need to restart neutron server as well? | 07:38 |
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| joejoe | kitsuneninetails: I wonder if killing/restarting the screen session itself would work | 07:40 |
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| kitsuneninetails | I will try that out and play with it a bit. I might not even need to restart, now that I think about it some more | 07:40 |
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| yamamoto | i tend to think networking-midonet jobs should use midonet from packages rather than via devmido in the first place. | 07:41 |
| kitsuneninetails | I will have to devote some time to getting it to work with devstack | 07:41 |
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| ryu25 | yamamoto: i agree on the CI jobs. devmido was created only if you want to do parallel development | 07:41 |
| ryu25 | kitsuneninetails: do all tests require agents to be restarted? | 07:42 |
| ryu25 | is that part of the setup or something? | 07:42 |
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| kitsuneninetails | just a part of the physical layer startup, not the test system | 07:43 |
| kitsuneninetails | test system just assumes everything is running | 07:43 |
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| ryu25 | ah ok so with some tweaks, we may just be able to run these tests with a devstack environment | 07:43 |
| kitsuneninetails | basically, we just need a PTM manager which just sets itself up to an already running physical layer, rather than setting itself up. | 07:45 |
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| yamamoto | kitsuneninetails: thank you for explanation | 07:47 |
| yamamoto | does anyone have any other topic to discuss? | 07:47 |
| ryu25 | nope | 07:47 |
| yamamoto | let me go back to bugs | 07:47 |
| yamamoto | #topic Bugs | 07:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:47 | |
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| yamamoto | any volunteer for bug deputy for this week? | 07:48 |
| ryu25 | i haven't done it in a while, so i can take it if no one volunteers | 07:49 |
| yamamoto | it might be time to revisit if the bug deputy process is worth for us though. | 07:49 |
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| yamamoto | ryu25: thank you | 07:50 |
| yamamoto | let me give you back a several minutes | 07:52 |
| yamamoto | thank you for attending | 07:52 |
| yamamoto | #endmeeting | 07:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 23 07:52:44 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-23-07.00.html | 07:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-23-07.00.txt | 07:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-23-07.00.log.html | 07:52 |
| ryu25 | thanks!! | 07:52 |
| kitsuneninetails | thanks! | 07:52 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 23 12:00:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| cdent | 'allo | 12:00 |
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| alex_xu | who is here today? | 12:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 12:00 |
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| jichen | o/ | 12:01 |
| speller | hi there | 12:01 |
| eliqiao_ | o/ | 12:01 |
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| PaulMurray | o/ | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | welcome everyone, let's start the meeting | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | #topic API futures - patches for approved specs | 12:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API futures - patches for approved specs (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:02 | |
| alex_xu | any api patches, we want to discuss? | 12:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | so eliqiao_ is looking at the live-migrate ones | 12:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think its worth a quick catchup | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | yup | 12:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/259319 | 12:02 |
| * bauzas lurks | 12:03 | |
| johnthetubaguy | basically, I was talking about not returning values from that API, because if we do return things, we are forced to keep the API synchronous (its not actually enforced today) | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | yup | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the plan was to only look at making the arguments we want to remove, optional | 12:03 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: agree, so we think of how to return those info later? | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | probably a propose in newton? | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think so | 12:05 |
| sdague | given the conversation about the network API, I'm more inclined to stop having optional parameters here | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | its really part of the general migration status API, I feel | 12:05 |
| sdague | couldn't we do 'host': 'auto' | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: thats not a bad idea | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | I do wonder if we can actually *remove* the other params, rather than keep them | 12:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | as an asside, I think this is an API that needs to fail until the upgrade has completed | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we need to ensure we have the correct min_version of the service being reported by all compute nodes | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | basically, as we need the source and destination to be able to auto compute the values, before we can make those arguments optional in the API | 12:07 |
| eliqiao_ | johnthetubaguy: self.compute_api.live_migrate is a sync call, I think we can catch exception from it and fail. | 12:07 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, do we need to do that really? | 12:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | eliqiao_: no, I want this to be a blanket ban, in a standard way | 12:07 |
| eliqiao_ | johnthetubaguy: so if compute rpc api raise any exception, REST API can get noticed and raise it. | 12:07 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: I'm confused, what needs to be computed on the target? | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: actually the new microversion api only enabled when all node upgrade now, just like this https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/compute/rpcapi.py#L1042 | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: the is_block_migration stuff, etc | 12:08 |
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| eliqiao_ | sdague:if block_migration is None, we compute it in compute_node. | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | there is the work bauzas is hitting on, that eventually leads to a forced host, but this is separate from that, as I understand it | 12:09 |
| sdague | eliqiao_: ok, and that only works with newer RPC? | 12:09 |
| eliqiao_ | so for upgrade process, we can not do live-migration if we pass block_migraiton=None. | 12:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it needs a new compute RPC, well service version, as I understand it | 12:09 |
| eliqiao_ | sdague: yes, only works for new RPC. | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | this is the same discussion we had for multi-attach, basically | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | I think it is if the 'None' pass down, then an exception return back, that means the new api version won't work for all node until all node upgraded | 12:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | for simplicity, block the new API, until the upgrade has completed, as we know things will work, rather than trying to test all combinations of problems we hit in the middle | 12:10 |
| sdague | ok, has anyone written this flow down somewhere in detail? This seems like a lot of moving parts to get right | 12:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | it does feel like its time for a new spec revision | 12:10 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: blocking an API is new infrastructure we don't have | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: for now, can we use this way to block new api https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/compute/rpcapi.py#L1042 ? | 12:10 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: correct, but that will be a Newton-ish thing | 12:10 |
| sdague | however alex_xu pointed to how the crash dump bits work, which seems sane | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: well, we do have the DB method here: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/objects/service.py#L333, but that will require a change to add the caching infrastructure on for APIs, not just conductor | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | so for a single node thing, thats OK | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | just using the destination compute node | 12:11 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: right, but it's a thing we've never done before, and where the edge cases are is kind of unclear | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | but this involves compue<->compute things | 12:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so we went through this with multi-attach, hence the bocking on min_service_version | 12:12 |
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| alex_xu | how about we just need make sure the new api block for any compute to any compute | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | you are right, its the first time | 12:12 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: that still feels weird honestly, and will have unintended consequences if a node gets wedged somewhere | 12:12 |
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| sdague | all the auto compute bits are new | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | the edge case we hit is that there is no way to atomically update the min_service_version cache in all the API nodes, although you can do a drain and move behind an LB to avoid that niggle | 12:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, I thought we agreed this at the mid-cycle for multi-attach, so its just copying that pattern | 12:13 |
| sdague | I guess, here is the question | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the big question, I guess, is what do we do for mitaka with this change? | 12:13 |
| sdague | do we think this is landing in Mitaka | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | right | 12:14 |
| sdague | because, blocking API on service min version calculation seems like a lot of new moving parts | 12:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | looking at my watch, my head says no change, my heat says, folks need this | 12:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | s/no change/no chance/ | 12:14 |
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| * eliqiao_ :-) | 12:15 | |
| sdague | honestly... | 12:15 |
| sdague | this is an admin api | 12:15 |
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| sdague | so, I think if we think this api is needed in mitaka, we can do it without the safety net | 12:15 |
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| sdague | and just doc that under a partially upgraded cloud this is going to potentially break | 12:16 |
| sdague | the admin should then just not use it | 12:16 |
| sdague | and work on safety net infrastructure in newton | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | the problem is lots of folks use live-migrate to do their upgrades, otherwise I would agree with you | 12:16 |
| sdague | sure, and those folks won't be able to use this | 12:16 |
| sdague | those folks will never be able to use this, honestly | 12:17 |
| * alex_xu lost the point | 12:17 | |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, that's why I asked about insisting everythinhg has min version | 12:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | why will those folks never be able to use this? | 12:17 |
| sdague | right, because if you insist everything has a min version, you *can't* live-upgrade to do upgrades | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | the api should work for old version api? (ignore me if I looks like totally miss the context) | 12:17 |
| sdague | alex_xu: right, exactly | 12:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | so thats why I want the check in there really, so they don't have nasty live-migrate error by trying the new API | 12:18 |
| sdague | reno: if you use live migration to upgrade your cloud, you should not use microversions > 2.21 until the cloud is fully upgrade. Unexpected results will happen. | 12:18 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: right, but microversion is explicit | 12:18 |
| sdague | they had to take an ACTIVE action to say they wanted to use this new live migration API | 12:19 |
| sdague | and we can tell them, don't do that until you are upgraded | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | sdague: we can raise exception like trigger_crash_dump, so it won't be a unexpected restult | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we do use this infrastructure in the conductor already | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | s/restult/result/ | 12:19 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: I 100% don't understand why you believe this is an issue | 12:20 |
| sdague | microversions used by clients don't magically increment | 12:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, not unless they use the CLI, but yes | 12:21 |
| sdague | the concern is novaclient cli? | 12:21 |
| sdague | I see 2 options based on calendar: we can fix this in docs and land it in Mitaka, or we can miss Mitaka and build safeguards in code. | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | we could add the safeguides in Newton and back port them, maybe? | 12:22 |
| sdague | we're not going to get this into nova cli before release anyway | 12:22 |
| sdague | maybe, they seem high risk | 12:23 |
| sdague | honestly, documentation is fine | 12:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it only affects folks calling the new microversion, the new safety things, that is, and the infrastructure is already being used in the conductor, so its seems lower risk to me, but I am probably just too heads down in that stuff at this point | 12:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, I will not block it, lets see what we can land without the safeguard | 12:24 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, just wnat to be clear on one thing | 12:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | mostly because its an admin API | 12:25 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, this means block_migration=None would be the thing that shouldn't be done ? | 12:25 |
| bauzas | we could fire a reno issue | 12:25 |
| PaulMurray | during upgrade | 12:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: basically, yes | 12:25 |
| bauzas | so it would be super clear and not hidden in an upgrade or feature note | 12:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: no a bad idea | 12:26 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, is that the same as normal migration at the moment (i.e. if yo udon't specify block_migration at all) | 12:26 |
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| johnthetubaguy | s/no/not/ | 12:26 |
| bauzas | like a "known bug" or rather a limitation | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: if you don't specify the API fails, I believe | 12:26 |
| sdague | so, to be clear, what is the semantic intent of the current code for block_migration not being there? | 12:26 |
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| sdague | is that also 'block_migration': 'auto' ? | 12:27 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, so any tooling that does a migration without block migration may fail | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | for the current code, you must specify block_mgiration in the api | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yes, although frankly I think we should remove the arg all together, so auto is the only valid option | 12:27 |
| eliqiao_ | I think so | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: right, that tooling would fail today | 12:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: you have to explicity ask for the new microversion, and change your API to not include that argument, to make this work | 12:28 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, a lot of people who use live migraiton do it with shared storage or cinder volumes, so most would fail | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | ?? | 12:28 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ok, there is no valid option other than 'auto' ? | 12:28 |
| sdague | I'm fine with it being removed then | 12:28 |
| sdague | optional seems bad | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, I think we should just remove it | 12:28 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, sdague agreed | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | we should remove it, after the scheduler can track the shared storage I think | 12:29 |
| PaulMurray | (I agree) | 12:29 |
| sdague | ok, so block_migration should be removed, not made optional | 12:29 |
| sdague | and host should be made to support 'auto', not made optional | 12:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: oh... so thats the issue, we can't get it correct yet? | 12:29 |
| eliqiao_ | hmm.. | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yeah, scheduler may choice a node which isn't in the shared storage pool | 12:30 |
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| alex_xu | so give user a chance choice block_mgiration or not when user have multiple storage pool in the cluster | 12:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I am thinking we are just not ready to make this change yet... | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | after we have resource provider, we probably can track that | 12:31 |
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| bauzas | ++ | 12:31 |
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| bauzas | even if we do provide the resource providers infra, it will require Cinder to tell us the usage | 12:31 |
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| sdague | do we have to deal with the block thing right now? host='auto' seems pretty useful | 12:31 |
| sdague | ok, who is the primary driver of this change? | 12:32 |
| eliqiao_ | sdague: do you mean host='auto' is equal to host=None(current) | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | eliqiao_ work on those patches | 12:32 |
| sdague | eliqiao_: yes | 12:32 |
| PaulMurray | sdague, eliqiao_ is the driver (right ?) | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | how about block_migration? block_migration='auto' also? | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the block_migration=auto is probably the more useful bit, the rest is a no change, I think? | 12:33 |
| bauzas | yup | 12:33 |
| bauzas | and I care to modify the 'host' behaviour in my check-dests sepc | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | whats the use case here right, its basically stop asking the operator questions that we know better than they do | 12:33 |
| * alex_xu need think about more about cinder which bauzas metioned | 12:33 | |
| sdague | because I feel like if we think this is needed to go in, I need a new write up about what's going in, what are the failure conditions the code is going to cover, and what are the scenarios the admin needs to just not do | 12:34 |
| sdague | i.e. failure conditions owned by admin | 12:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, me too | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we have to kill this one for now | 12:34 |
| sdague | or give folks 24 hrs to build that | 12:35 |
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| sdague | and see if we comfortable | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | ok, looks like we have agreement on that | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | that would work | 12:35 |
| sdague | just because I can't get it all in my head right this second doesn't mean it's bad | 12:35 |
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| sdague | eliqiao_ / alex_xu - can you all get this written up for tomorrow this time? | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | sdague: what is 'write up' point to, you mean need eliqiao_ update spec? | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have a feeling we just identified that the use case we want to enable, doesn't actually work for the deployments where its really useful | 12:36 |
| sdague | spec, etherpad, email | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, cool, got it | 12:36 |
| sdague | it doesn't really matter, it just needs to be a fresh look at the whole thing | 12:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, need the whole picture described neatly | 12:36 |
| sdague | honestly, I think an updated spec is probably the worst option. Start with a clean page and write out the change and the failure circumstances | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | ok, let's move on, looks like we are cool here | 12:36 |
| eliqiao_ | okay, get it. | 12:37 |
| alex_xu | I want to give another live-migration patch update at here... | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | yep | 12:37 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258771/ | 12:37 |
| alex_xu | we said we only return in-progress migration for the migration sub-resoruce of servers | 12:38 |
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| alex_xu | but we added ref-link in the /os-migrations later. So this patch change the show method return any migration, not in-progress migration anymore, does this looks like cool for everyone? | 12:38 |
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| johnthetubaguy | 404 means its completed? | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yes, then the ref-link looks like useless anymore | 12:39 |
| sdague | 404 means not active | 12:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | true, its not active, not completed | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | so it is ok keep show return 404 for not active migration? | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think thats a problem with the old api not the new API | 12:40 |
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| sdague | yeh, it's all a little gorpy, but I think that's the best we've got right now | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | as an operator, I know its often useful to know where an instance has moved, really to double check billing related things, hence /os-migrations | 12:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so the main bit is, the API is going in the right direction | 12:41 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: and that's not stored in instance_actions? | 12:41 |
| PaulMurray | alex_xu, FYI - the cancel live migration uses delete to mean cancel - does that make sense ? | 12:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | and the old API linking to the new stuff is handy for active | 12:41 |
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| PaulMurray | i.e. delete migration => cancel it | 12:41 |
| sdague | PaulMurray: yeh, DELETE on the resource is right | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | PaulMurray: yes, I think that is agreed by people on the spec | 12:41 |
| sdague | I think that's why we went with the subresource, to make that more clear | 12:41 |
| PaulMurray | alex_xu, sdague yes, its agreed in spec, just making sure | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: well, migrations neatly just describe all the moves, which is what you wanting in that use case, the previous locations of the server (I have a feeling we don't add instance_actions for things with migrations, at least not yet) | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | ok, cool, that sounds make sense to me, I will feedback to the developer | 12:42 |
| PaulMurray | in that case its doesn't make sense to return migrations that are not on-going | 12:42 |
| sdague | so I feel like this & cancel are more critical to land | 12:42 |
| sdague | PaulMurray: right | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I think we are happy with the new API | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we should go for it | 12:42 |
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| alex_xu | ok, cool | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | so we can move on | 12:43 |
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| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, alex_xu - hold on | 12:43 |
| PaulMurray | one thought | 12:43 |
| sdague | where is the cancel api change ? | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | PaulMurray: sure, please go ahead | 12:43 |
| PaulMurray | can we look at why a migration finished? | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/277971 | 12:43 |
| sdague | PaulMurray: right now, no | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | so not currently, and well I think the idea is instance-actions should really tell you about that stuff | 12:44 |
| sdague | yeh, instance-actions seems best for all of that | 12:44 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, sdague ok - I'm cool with that | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | if no more patch bring up, we will move on | 12:45 |
| sdague | ok, so we should try to land https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258771/ & https://review.openstack.org/277971 this week | 12:45 |
| sdague | because those would be really good to have in Mitaka. | 12:45 |
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| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 12:45 |
| sdague | so agressive review appreciated | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | yea, they are pretty close | 12:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, do they not depend on each other? | 12:45 |
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| alex_xu | conflict each other :) | 12:46 |
| sdague | um... that seems bad | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah... we should fix that | 12:46 |
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| sdague | yeh, they are both trying to get 2.23 | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think cancel goes on the top, logically? | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | the status is first? | 12:46 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yes, that's what I assumed | 12:46 |
| alex_xu | that sounds ok | 12:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: can you reach out to get that rebase done? | 12:47 |
| sdague | PaulMurray: can you poke andrearosa to restack his patch? | 12:47 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, sure - does it really matter which goes first? | 12:47 |
| PaulMurray | (wondering if one is closer to being done) | 12:47 |
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| sdague | deleting a resource you can't show is kind of weird | 12:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 that | 12:48 |
| sdague | I would rather not do that | 12:48 |
| PaulMurray | never mind, will do - we have the same thing with pause which is already in | 12:48 |
| PaulMurray | but I'll get andrearosa to go second | 12:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh my, so yeah, get the list in ASAP | 12:49 |
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| alex_xu | cool, we can move on | 12:49 |
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| alex_xu | #topic Nova Microversion testing in Tempest | 12:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova Microversion testing in Tempest (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:49 | |
| alex_xu | sdague: I guess this your item | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | s/this/this is/ | 12:50 |
| sdague | gmann has some patches up to make this better, I haven't gotten back to them yet because I've been working on some nova bugs. I'll try to get that on my review radar this week | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | cool | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess this is technically OK post FF | 12:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | as its testing, not features | 12:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | although its a distraction from critical bugs, but it might find some | 12:51 |
| sdague | the tempest team is going to spin tempest-lib back into tempest to make things easier here. The split out actually made it really hard to stay current with API testing | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, to stop a land it, then release it cycle | 12:52 |
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| sdague | yeh | 12:52 |
| sdague | a lot of things got kind of hard to fix with the rest interface in tempest being in a separate tree | 12:53 |
| sdague | anyway, that's a different thing, we can move on | 12:53 |
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| alex_xu | ok | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:53 | |
| alex_xu | there is one item "Remove get servers by DB index with microversions." | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | looks like we already done that | 12:54 |
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| alex_xu | get servers by db index already removed without microversion few days ago | 12:54 |
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| alex_xu | so any more open bring it up? | 12:55 |
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| alex_xu | emm..I surprised we still can end the meeting a little early today | 12:55 |
| speller | There's the problem with creating a server without supplying a network | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | speller: what's problem | 12:56 |
| speller | the documentation says the server will be connected to all isolated networks in the tenant, and that is not the api's behavior | 12:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so this relates a little to the over conversation on the ML | 12:56 |
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| speller | The document says that if I don't supply a network when creating the server "the API provisions the server instance with all isolated networks for the tenant". But when if you don't supply a network you get a message from nova "Multiple possible networks found, use a Network ID to be more specific." | 12:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | the "default" API behaviour around the networking is incorrectly documented, it turns out | 12:57 |
| sdague | right | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | so we should fix the doc | 12:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | its also madness, but thats a different thing, that we spoke about in the ML | 12:57 |
| sdague | yes | 12:57 |
| sdague | to both things | 12:57 |
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| johnthetubaguy | who can take the action to fix that up? | 12:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | and/or create the bug | 12:58 |
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| speller | I can | 12:59 |
| sdague | speller: can you create a bug for this, referencing the docs and what you see? | 12:59 |
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| sdague | thanks | 12:59 |
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| alex_xu | speller: thanks | 12:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | speller: awesome | 12:59 |
| sdague | we can work on a fix from there | 12:59 |
| speller | I can do that to if you want | 12:59 |
| sdague | speller: sure | 12:59 |
| sdague | would be appreciated | 12:59 |
| speller | sure thing | 12:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we only auto add networks, when using neutron, if there is only one of them, but yeah, need to check that | 12:59 |
| sdague | ask in #openstack-nova if you need any help | 12:59 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: that sounds about right | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | sorry, it's time to close the meeting | 13:00 |
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| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 23 13:00:22 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | thanks all! | 13:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-23-12.00.html | 13:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-23-12.00.txt | 13:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-23-12.00.log.html | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 23 13:01:54 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:01 |
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| yanyanhu | a little bit earlier | 13:02 |
| elynn_ | o/ | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:02 |
| Qiming | little bit late, you mean? | 13:03 |
| lixinhui | 9:04 on my laptop :) | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | looks my local time need refresh :) | 13:03 |
| Qiming | was trapped by the policy doc thing I'm working on | 13:03 |
| Qiming | pls check agenda and see if you have things to add | 13:04 |
| Qiming | first things first, let's run the work item etherpad | 13:05 |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-mitaka-workitems | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | api side, I'm not aware of any high priority bugs/fixes | 13:05 |
| Qiming | I'd suggest we move advanced 'filters' back to TODO list | 13:06 |
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| yanyanhu | agree | 13:06 |
| Qiming | the reason is ... | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | it's a work with lower priority | 13:06 |
| Qiming | it is very complicated ... see: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/pagination_filter_sort.html#filtering | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | consider: GET /app/items?size=gt:8 | 13:07 |
| Qiming | GET /app/items?foo=in:buzz,bar | 13:07 |
| Qiming | heat resource type | 13:08 |
| elynn_ | yes | 13:08 |
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| elynn_ | only one resource left. | 13:08 |
| Qiming | OS::Senlin::Node | 13:08 |
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| elynn_ | I update it according to reviews | 13:09 |
| Qiming | there is not serious problems as I see it in the code | 13:09 |
| Qiming | just one thing | 13:09 |
| Qiming | do we want to expose a node to be created with cluster specified? | 13:09 |
| Qiming | the final answer to that would be YES | 13:10 |
| Qiming | do we want to support that right now? | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | I'm not sure, to be honest | 13:10 |
| Qiming | haven't got bandwidth to deal with the NODE_CREATE problem | 13:10 |
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| elynn_ | What's the problem with node_create? | 13:11 |
| Qiming | i.e. item listed on line 45 | 13:11 |
| Qiming | when you are creating a new node INTO a cluster | 13:11 |
| Qiming | you will respect all policies attached to that cluster | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | elynn_, policy check I think | 13:11 |
| Qiming | say, region placement, zone placement, load-balancing, ... | 13:12 |
| Qiming | the same applies to NODE_DELETE | 13:12 |
| elynn_ | Do I need to hide the property in heat resource? | 13:12 |
| Qiming | I'd suggest so | 13:13 |
| Qiming | speaking of Heat resource types, I don't see a strong use case to create an out-of-band node into a cluster, via a template | 13:13 |
| elynn_ | So for now we don't support attach a node to cluster? | 13:14 |
| Qiming | that is the question | 13:14 |
| elynn_ | Qiming: Yes, it's not that necessary to create a node from template. | 13:14 |
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| elynn_ | Qiming: I mean in heat. | 13:14 |
| Qiming | we do support cluster-add-nodes | 13:14 |
| Qiming | we are checking that action in our policies | 13:15 |
| Qiming | but we never checked NODE_CREATE, NODE_DELETE | 13:15 |
| elynn_ | ok... That would make codes of node resource more complicate. | 13:16 |
| Qiming | so .. I'd suggest we hide 'cluster' property of nodes | 13:16 |
| Qiming | at least for now | 13:16 |
| elynn_ | Qiming: ok, I will hide it in next patchset. | 13:17 |
| Qiming | it can be left as an attribute | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | also, node details should be left as an attribute | 13:17 |
| elynn_ | ok | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | is there a problem if we have 'cluster' as an attribute of Node and in future we add it as a property? | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | a practical goal for mitaka is to have the basic cluster/node/policy/profile concepts demonstrated in a template | 13:20 |
| elynn_ | Qiming: I don't think so, since we can say that cluster attr is ID of cluster while cluster property could be name. | 13:20 |
| Qiming | that is enough | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | fair point | 13:20 |
| Qiming | moving on, testing | 13:20 |
| Qiming | have we started stress testing? | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | no yet | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | just have some basic idea | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | may need further discussion with xinhui and brian | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | need to fork this work thread soon so that branw can work on it | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | will try to setup a discussion with them this week | 13:22 |
| Qiming | more functional tests for cluster/node coming in? or we can delete line 16? | 13:22 |
| Qiming | cool, yanyanhu | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | still need to add a test case for cluster update | 13:22 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | other parts have been done I think | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | I'm removing the senlinclient unit test line | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:23 |
| Qiming | health management/policy ? | 13:23 |
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| lixinhui | I have submit the patch | 13:23 |
| lixinhui | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/282299/ | 13:23 |
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| lixinhui | collect comments | 13:24 |
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| lixinhui | I will change accordingly | 13:24 |
| Qiming | ah, I reviewed, but haven't written comments | 13:24 |
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| lixinhui | :( | 13:24 |
| Qiming | the general feeling is that the patch is still a half-baked solution | 13:24 |
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| lixinhui | en | 13:24 |
| Qiming | it is dangerous if we are moving along this way | 13:24 |
| Qiming | it may induce a lot of overheads if we are checking every single cluster and try to recover them | 13:25 |
| Qiming | I'd suggest we only care about clusters that are somehow 'registered' for this kind of checking/recovery | 13:26 |
| lixinhui | a candidate way to check only the clusters attached with health policy | 13:26 |
| Qiming | the best way I can think of is to see if they have a health policy attached AND enabled | 13:26 |
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| lixinhui | yes | 13:26 |
| lixinhui | but not sure what priority with health policy | 13:27 |
| Qiming | so a health policy, when being attached to a cluster, will "register" that cluster for health management | 13:27 |
| lixinhui | okay | 13:28 |
| Qiming | a health policy is triggered by timer events, not actions | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | so 'priority' may be not relevant | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | we can have a simple, naive version of health policy to drive this | 13:28 |
| lixinhui | okay | 13:29 |
| Qiming | cluster/node check/recover apis all done? | 13:29 |
| lixinhui | could you give some example on timer events? | 13:29 |
| lixinhui | yes, they all be done | 13:29 |
| lixinhui | once the client patch got into, I will add doc accordingly | 13:30 |
| Qiming | can be triggered by crond, for example, or timer event from ceilometer, | 13:30 |
| lixinhui | and saw Yantanhu has helped to write the functional tests :) | 13:30 |
| Qiming | can be invoked from within senlin engine, from a perioc_task | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui, yes :) | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | those API are available now | 13:30 |
| lixinhui | okay | 13:31 |
| lixinhui | I will try | 13:31 |
| Qiming | how about the SDK side, I think we have them all merged? | 13:31 |
| lixinhui | Yes | 13:31 |
| Qiming | great, thanks!! | 13:31 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:31 |
| Qiming | documentation | 13:31 |
| lixinhui | One thing I also tried in the past week | 13:31 |
| Qiming | okay? | 13:32 |
| lixinhui | is about neutron member health status | 13:32 |
| Qiming | LB based? | 13:32 |
| lixinhui | Yes | 13:32 |
| lixinhui | I still do not give up to get status trigged recover | 13:32 |
| Qiming | please don't | 13:32 |
| Qiming | :) | 13:32 |
| lixinhui | oh | 13:32 |
| Qiming | I mean, please don't give up | 13:33 |
| lixinhui | weekly meeting is very important :) | 13:33 |
| lixinhui | but found a bug that member status can be updated | 13:33 |
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| lixinhui | by healthmonitor in V@ | 13:33 |
| lixinhui | inv2 | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui, hope can have some time to work on healthmonitor support in lb policy in coming week | 13:34 |
| Qiming | can or cannot? | 13:34 |
| lixinhui | s/can/cann' | 13:34 |
| lixinhui | s/can/cann't | 13:34 |
| Qiming | could be some config problem? | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | status of lb pool_member? | 13:34 |
| lixinhui | great yanyanhu! I know your work efforts already very heavy | 13:34 |
| lixinhui | I tried but think not config issue | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui, no problem, just being trapped in some other stuff :) | 13:35 |
| Qiming | okay, let's wait for feedback from neutron team | 13:35 |
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| lixinhui | okay, will not give up | 13:35 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | documentation side, I've started drafting something, hopefully they will serve a summary or design doc | 13:36 |
| Qiming | http://docs-draft.openstack.org/58/283558/2/check/gate-senlin-docs/b75599a//doc/build/html/developer/index.html | 13:36 |
| Qiming | you will see the Built-in Policy Types section | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | just commited a patch about deletion policy | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | great job! | 13:37 |
| Qiming | link is here: http://docs-draft.openstack.org/58/283558/2/check/gate-senlin-docs/b75599a//doc/build/html/developer/policies/deletion_v1.html | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | writing docs really helps clear my mind | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | will continue working on that | 13:39 |
| lixinhui | :) | 13:39 |
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| lixinhui | zan | 13:39 |
| Qiming | I'm finding quite some bugs when writing the doc and reread the code | 13:39 |
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| lixinhui | will do that too | 13:40 |
| Qiming | don't think we have any progress in other areas listed in the etherpad | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, I'm afraid that's true... | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | oh, about the resource property renaming in sdk, have all related patches been merged yet? | 13:41 |
| Qiming | we did something that are not listed on the page, :) | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | do we need to prepare rework our driver? | 13:41 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, not yet | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yep :) | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:41 |
| Qiming | still some patches coming in | 13:41 |
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| yanyanhu | will wait for new release of sdk | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | Richard is working on message service | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | zaqar? | 13:43 |
| lixinhui | when will it be possibly? | 13:43 |
| Qiming | seems so | 13:43 |
| Qiming | oh, I forgot that '-2' is sticky | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | which -2? | 13:44 |
| Qiming | I was surprised to see Yanyan's patch still has a -2 | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | ah | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | that one | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | I guess terry hasn't got time to watch it :) | 13:44 |
| Qiming | okay, that is one of the SDK issues we need to deal with | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | we really need that workaround for pool_member resource creating | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:45 |
| lixinhui | yes | 13:45 |
| Qiming | are you aware of others? | 13:45 |
| Qiming | I think I have heard some complaints about ksa1, things not found, etc etc | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | no, as of now, only pool_member has this problem I think | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | ksa1? | 13:46 |
| Qiming | keystoneauth1 | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | oh | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | really need spend some time to understand it | 13:46 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | as you know, I'm trying to install Senlin in SV | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | which is a Juno env | 13:47 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:47 |
| lixinhui | what is SV | 13:47 |
| Qiming | that would be a very risky test, :) | 13:47 |
| lixinhui | ? | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | do meet some issues when access keystone service through sdk | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:47 |
| Qiming | lixinhui, a power cloud | 13:47 |
| lixinhui | okay, Qiming | 13:47 |
| Qiming | sdk 0.7.4 ? | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | especially about trust | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | 0.7.4 | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | authentication is ok | 13:48 |
| Qiming | good luck, boy | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | but exception happened during listing trust | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | thanks :) | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | hope so | 13:48 |
| Qiming | lixinhui, any outstanding issues building the autoscaling poc? | 13:49 |
| lixinhui | so far good | 13:49 |
| lixinhui | I will ask for help once meet issues | 13:49 |
| Qiming | you can point me to the ceilometer patch about lbaas v2 | 13:49 |
| lixinhui | :) | 13:50 |
| Qiming | I can help poke the ceilometer team on that | 13:50 |
| lixinhui | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/lbaas-v2-enablement | 13:50 |
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| lixinhui | Qiming, the code works in my tests | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | you mean that patch? | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | cool | 13:50 |
| lixinhui | yes | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | ji zilian works on it :) | 13:51 |
| lixinhui | yes, yanyanhu :) | 13:51 |
| Qiming | cool, the author has been working with us for quite a long time | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | really a good news for us | 13:51 |
| lixinhui | great!!! | 13:51 |
| lixinhui | RP is so good | 13:51 |
| elynn_ | oh, his BP | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | haha | 13:51 |
| Qiming | feel free to speak up when there are questions | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | yep, he has worked on monitoring in openstack for a long time | 13:52 |
| lixinhui | okay! | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | #topic open discussion | 13:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:52 | |
| yanyanhu | I think you guys may need to prepare for the trip to Austin :) | 13:52 |
| Qiming | ^ will be the first/last topic in the meeting minutes | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | especially the visa | 13:53 |
| Qiming | trapped by several things these days | 13:53 |
| elynn_ | Are you all going to Austin? | 13:53 |
| Qiming | flight connection is a headache, according to Deng Hui | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:53 |
| Qiming | elynn_, we follow you | 13:54 |
| lixinhui | I did not reply to him | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | elynn_, myself is not sure | 13:54 |
| lixinhui | because I am still thinking the trip plan | 13:54 |
| Qiming | I'm reading ttx's proposal on separating design summits out of the main conf | 13:54 |
| Qiming | sigh ... | 13:54 |
| lixinhui | go to PA or not | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | if you are very active, it means you will need to justify four trips a year now | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | any decision about separating design summit? | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | don't know the outcome yet | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | I planned to repond to that proposal, but ... | 13:56 |
| Qiming | bandwidth | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | right... | 13:56 |
| Qiming | TBH, I don't get the idea of separating devs into a 'clean' room for pure tech discussions | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | somehow we are stepping away from users | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | sigh | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | anything else? | 13:58 |
| Qiming | 2 mins left | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | nope from me | 13:58 |
| elynn_ | nope from me | 13:58 |
| lixinhui | Israel openstack day | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | haiwei is in hospital I think | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | just hope can have more time to work on those items in etherpad | 13:58 |
| lixinhui | do you guuys feel interested? | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | oh? | 13:59 |
| Qiming | lixinhui, going Israel? | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | is he ok? | 13:59 |
| Qiming | hope so, yanyanhu | 13:59 |
| lixinhui | poor guy | 13:59 |
| elynn_ | What happend? | 13:59 |
| lixinhui | yes will send link to all of you | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui, when is it? | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | lixinhui, thanks | 13:59 |
| lixinhui | to see if anything want to propose | 13:59 |
| Qiming | lixinhui, al ways interested in any tech discussions | 13:59 |
| lixinhui | NP | 13:59 |
| Qiming | the only problem is travel budget | 13:59 |
| lixinhui | :) | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | yes... | 14:00 |
| lixinhui | come to vmware | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | big headache | 14:00 |
| Qiming | enough | 14:00 |
| Qiming | thanks | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | haha | 14:00 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 23 14:00:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-02-23-13.01.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-02-23-13.01.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-02-23-13.01.log.html | 14:00 |
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| gampel | Hi everyone we want to start who is here ? | 14:00 |
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| yinweimac | hi | 14:00 |
| gampel | #startmeeting Smaug | 14:00 |
| edison | hi | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 23 14:00:57 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gampel. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Smaug)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'smaug' | 14:01 |
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| gampel | Hi edison | 14:01 |
| chenying_ | hi | 14:01 |
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| gampel | #info: edison, chenying in the meeting | 14:01 |
| edison | hi, i am xiangxinyong | 14:01 |
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| yinweimac | hello, guys | 14:02 |
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| saggi1 | hey | 14:02 |
| gampel | #info: xiangxinyong , gampel ,yinweimac, saggi1 | 14:02 |
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| gampel | Hi everyone we want to start | 14:02 |
| gampel | #topic Announcements | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Smaug)" | 14:02 | |
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| gampel | I want to propose Saggi as core in Smaug | 14:03 |
| gampel | Lets do a vote about it | 14:03 |
| avishay | Hi all | 14:03 |
| xiangxinyong123 | ok | 14:03 |
| chenying_ | +1 | 14:03 |
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| gampel | Hi @avishay welcome | 14:03 |
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| gampel | gampel: +1 | 14:04 |
| zhonghua-li | hi | 14:04 |
| xiangxinyong123 | xiangxinyong:+1 | 14:04 |
| gampel | hi zhonghua-li | 14:04 |
| zhonghua-li | gampel: +1 | 14:04 |
| yinweimac | +1 | 14:05 |
| zhonghua-li | though i'm not a core reviewer:) | 14:05 |
| gampel | So i will update the core list and add Saggi it will help allot with th review and merging all the code | 14:05 |
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| saggi1 | Thank you everyone for your support | 14:06 |
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| gampel | next we have two new sub projects for dashboard and client for Smaug | 14:06 |
| xiangxinyong123 | ^-^ | 14:06 |
| gampel | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/281019/ | 14:06 |
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| gampel | Saggi welcome and you are deserve it thank you for all the good work | 14:07 |
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| saggi1 | you just want me take care of the merging for you ;) | 14:07 |
| gampel | xiangxinyong123: zhonghua-li: do you want to update regarding the new sub projects the status | 14:08 |
| gampel | :) | 14:08 |
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| xiangxinyong123 | yeah | 14:08 |
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| zhonghua-li | gampel: yes | 14:09 |
| xiangxinyong123 | The patch in project-config is still in review | 14:09 |
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| chenying_ | I am alreadly working on the client for Smaug project. I am waiting for the project-config merging. | 14:10 |
| gampel | Ok lets hope that we can merge it this week | 14:10 |
| zhonghua-li | hope so | 14:10 |
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| gampel | #topic Smaug UI Design | 14:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Smaug UI Design (Meeting topic: Smaug)" | 14:10 | |
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| xiangxinyong123 | http://www.screencast.com/t/SLqCyOwtBRl | 14:10 |
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| gampel | #link: http://www.screencast.com/t/SLqCyOwtBRl | 14:10 |
| xiangxinyong123 | i upload a video in the above link. | 14:10 |
| zhonghua-li | looks good | 14:11 |
| zengyingzhe_ | what's this video used for? gampel. | 14:11 |
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| gampel | it is used as a mock up to show the UI to everyone here and get their feedback | 14:12 |
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| zhonghua-li | do we plan to do a really demo? | 14:12 |
| xiangxinyong123 | yeah. | 14:13 |
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| gampel | Yes I think that the UI design is in a good state and we could start coding | 14:13 |
| gampel | any feedbacks / | 14:13 |
| gampel | ? | 14:13 |
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| xiangxinyong123 | i have made a horizon ui framework. | 14:13 |
| saggi1 | I'm very pleased with it | 14:13 |
| xiangxinyong123 | if the project-config is merged, i will add the ui framework to git | 14:14 |
| gampel | xiangxinyong123: You did a very good job | 14:14 |
| zhonghua-li | gampel: we must create the project successfully fist | 14:14 |
| xiangxinyong123 | thanks | 14:14 |
| gampel | yes but i hope next week we could start sending patches for UI and client | 14:14 |
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| gampel | meanwhile you can work offline on it | 14:15 |
| xiangxinyong123 | ok. i will do | 14:15 |
| zhonghua-li | gampel: good idea | 14:15 |
| gampel | is there any comments on the UI | 14:15 |
| yinweimac | no | 14:16 |
| xiangxinyong123 | Merge Proposed Smaug API v1.0 | 14:16 |
| xiangxinyong123 | Missing operation log will be added in another patch | 14:16 |
| gampel | @avishay what do you think | 14:16 |
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| gampel | Ok lets move to next topic we can continue comment on the UI latter | 14:17 |
| gampel | #topic Merge Proposed Smaug API v1.0 | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Merge Proposed Smaug API v1.0 (Meeting topic: Smaug)" | 14:17 | |
| gampel | yes we are missing the operation log log | 14:18 |
| gampel | we ant to add it in another patch | 14:18 |
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| gampel | We want to merge the current API and add the operation log next | 14:18 |
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| avishay | gampel: about the GUI? looks good, reflects the API, maybe can make more user friendly in the future, need to think about it | 14:18 |
| gampel | Ok lets try to have a talk about it I will send you HTML mock up as well so we can get your feedbacks | 14:19 |
| gampel | Please all review the API assuming that we have another patch for the operation log | 14:20 |
| xiangxinyong123 | welcome to suggestion and feedback. | 14:20 |
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| gampel | I want to merge it only when we have enough votes | 14:20 |
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| gampel | #action all, review the API patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/244756/ | 14:21 |
| zhonghua-li | will | 14:21 |
| gampel | any comments on the API | 14:21 |
| gampel | #topic Protection Service design spec | 14:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Protection Service design spec (Meeting topic: Smaug)" | 14:22 | |
| gampel | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261455/ | 14:22 |
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| gampel | @yinwei can you please update the status | 14:22 |
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| yinweimac | sure | 14:23 |
| yinweimac | let me check | 14:23 |
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| yinweimac | I thought this patch has already been merged | 14:24 |
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| yinweimac | so currently the issue is about the serialization of checkpoint, right? | 14:24 |
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| gampel | I see that @saggi thinks that implementation detail of the provider instead of a pluggable class | 14:24 |
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| gampel | the checkpoint serialization | 14:24 |
| gampel | I agree that checkpoint serialization is the bank driver issue | 14:25 |
| saggi1 | I don't want to introduce another factor for incompatibility between sites | 14:26 |
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| saggi1 | Otherwise you need to configure a BankPlugin and a BankSerializer. | 14:26 |
| saggi1 | Or CheckpointSerializer | 14:26 |
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| yinweimac | sorry, I think there may be some misunderstanding | 14:27 |
| saggi1 | which gives the user options it doesn't need or want for the price of configuration complexity IMHO | 14:27 |
| yinweimac | I didn't mean to make checkopint serializer as a pluggable class | 14:27 |
| zhonghua-li | saggi1: we can use single Serializer | 14:28 |
| saggi1 | The bank knows the optimal format it wants to save information. | 14:28 |
| yinweimac | The design just want to decouple the serialization from checkpoint collection | 14:28 |
| saggi1 | We can't since a mongo bank would require serializing to it's format. | 14:28 |
| gampel | difference banks plugin will serialize differently | 14:28 |
| saggi1 | since it doesn't use blobs but documents | 14:28 |
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| yinweimac | yes, different bank will serialize differently. some will but some won't | 14:29 |
| gampel | it should be a bank driver implementation's detail | 14:29 |
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| yinweimac | I don't think serialization should be done inside bank | 14:29 |
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| gampel | In side the bank plugin the driver | 14:29 |
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| yinweimac | some stupid bank would just take key/value | 14:30 |
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| yinweimac | some higher level bank like db would do serialization | 14:30 |
| gampel | yes so that bank driver/plugin code in Smaug will need to take care of that | 14:30 |
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| yinweimac | that's why I make serialization in a higher layer otherthan bank | 14:30 |
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| yinweimac | if we have bank to take care of serializtion, it needs understand the class to be stored | 14:31 |
| yinweimac | where we only want to leave bank as a simple writer, isn't it? | 14:31 |
| gampel | we have the same issue in other projects that use DB layer and pubsub and every driver will do a different serialization | 14:31 |
| saggi1 | yinweimac: It will need to be able to handle dictionaries. Since this is what we pass to the plugins. | 14:32 |
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| gampel | yes we need to define the Object we Pass to the Bank Plug in | 14:32 |
| yinweimac | the point here is, I want to make bank a simple writer, which doesn't care what it writes | 14:32 |
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| yinweimac | take checkpoint as example | 14:33 |
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| yinweimac | if we want to choose xsd or gpb as the serialize way, we don't want bank to handle the proto of each object | 14:34 |
| saggi1 | yinweimac: Checkpoint will not serialize to a single file. We need might need to have serialize to dict function in the Checkpiont. Similar to how oslo serializers do it. | 14:35 |
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| saggi1 | So that the bank only handles basic types. strings\numbers\lists\maps. | 14:35 |
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| saggi1 | So that the object is responsible for implementing the conversion to a dict. | 14:36 |
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| saggi1 | or whatever primitive | 14:36 |
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| yinweimac | hmm, that's the divergence | 14:36 |
| yinweimac | so let's take it step by step | 14:36 |
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| yinweimac | what's the interface of bank write do we want" | 14:36 |
| saggi1 | Similar to json. We give it an object and it should be able to save it if it's a basic type that maps to json. | 14:37 |
| gampel | yinweimac: we think that with this basic primitive we cover all the parameters info, .... | 14:37 |
| saggi1 | we could have a to_bank_format() function that the bank probes. If it exists it will call it and store the result. | 14:37 |
| yinweimac | you're talking about the serialization way | 14:38 |
| yinweimac | I'm talking about the interface of bank | 14:38 |
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| saggi1 | the bank has write_object(key, value) | 14:38 |
| yinweimac | json is just a way of serialization and it doesn't provide compression | 14:38 |
| saggi1 | where key must be a string | 14:38 |
| yinweimac | what'a bout the value | 14:38 |
| saggi1 | any basic type similar to what json.dumps() accepts | 14:39 |
| saggi1 | If the bank wants to compress it could | 14:39 |
| saggi1 | it could be part of it's options | 14:39 |
| saggi1 | Since this is the on disk format | 14:39 |
| saggi1 | it should be the responsibility of the bank | 14:39 |
| saggi1 | we should just convert it to a basic type | 14:40 |
| yinweimac | so our difference is on the value part | 14:40 |
| zhonghua-li | IMO, the serializator is just to change the object to dict or json,am i correct? | 14:40 |
| saggi1 | this could be solved by adding to_bank_format() to objects that are not basic. That way any class we create can be saved in any bank. | 14:40 |
| yinweimac | what n my mind is the value is a tuple of bytes, which is a serialized value | 14:40 |
| yinweimac | could be json, xsd, gdp | 14:40 |
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| yinweimac | but bank doesn't care | 14:41 |
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| yinweimac | it's only a simple writer | 14:41 |
| gampel | serialization should be done in the Bank driver,we should have one format above | 14:41 |
| yinweimac | only checkpoint collection layer interpret the content write there | 14:41 |
| yinweimac | we want to make bank simple, right? | 14:42 |
| saggi1 | yinweimac: This forces blob storage on the bank. | 14:42 |
| yinweimac | while we want to leave more flexibility on serialization way, right? | 14:42 |
| gampel | yinweimac: saggi: i think we should continue in the review | 14:42 |
| saggi1 | gampel: sure | 14:42 |
| gampel | we understand the differences and we should all think about it and try this week to resolve | 14:43 |
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| gampel | #action @saggi @yinweimac @gampel agree on the Checkpoint serialization | 14:43 |
| gampel | #topic protection-plugin-design | 14:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "protection-plugin-design (Meeting topic: Smaug)" | 14:44 | |
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| yinweimac | ok, saggi1, let's talk about it offloine | 14:44 |
| yinweimac | maybe a pseudo code would better explain it | 14:44 |
| gampel | Yingzhe Zeng: can you share the status of this BP | 14:45 |
| yinweimac | protection plugin is dependent on graph walker listener, isn't it? | 14:45 |
| gampel | #link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/smaug/+spec/protection-plugin-design | 14:45 |
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| gampel | yinweimac: yes it does it was merged | 14:46 |
| yinweimac | from saggi's latest patch, I still can't see how to pass down the recursive result | 14:46 |
| zengyingzhe_ | this's just for the internal interfaces definition, to confirm with DJ product. | 14:46 |
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| zhonghua-li | zengyingzhe_:which one? | 14:47 |
| gampel | Ok we need to define the reference implementation | 14:47 |
| gampel | protection Plugins Volume and VM | 14:47 |
| saggi1 | yinweimac: I will add an example test for passing information. | 14:47 |
| zhonghua-li | oh | 14:47 |
| zhonghua-li | yeah, it's a reference implementation | 14:47 |
| yinweimac | saggi1, thanks! | 14:47 |
| zhonghua-li | likes ABC | 14:47 |
| gampel | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274308/ | 14:48 |
| gampel | comments from saggi and me is why not define it as abs ? | 14:48 |
| yinweimac | gampel, hu rong is working on a volume protection plugin | 14:48 |
| yinweimac | I think we have updated on the epad | 14:48 |
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| gampel | what we dicussed with @smcginnis | 14:49 |
| chenying_ | I note that saggi's comments:define abs in the code instead of md file. I think abc class code can be submitted in another patch. | 14:49 |
| yinweimac | but before that, we need confirm how to pass recursive result in graph wolker listener | 14:49 |
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| gampel | that in the reference we should call cider backup and store the back id in the bank checkpoint | 14:50 |
| yinweimac | yes, that's the plugin hu rong is working on | 14:50 |
| gampel | Other vendor protection plugin could bypass cinder and call their driver directly | 14:50 |
| gampel | Ok so @hu rong and @zengyingzhe_ should sync and collaborate on this | 14:51 |
| chenying_ | Yes default reference call cider backup | 14:51 |
| yinweimac | but first we need a basic protection plugin as a sample or base class, like singleTaskProtectionPlugin, which only returns one task in before/after functions | 14:51 |
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| gampel | #action @zengyingzhe_ and @hurong sync and collaborate on Volume protection plugin | 14:52 |
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| gampel | yinweimac: yes I think that we need to define it first as abs do you agree | 14:53 |
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| yinweimac | sure | 14:53 |
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| yinweimac | that's what I want to express | 14:53 |
| gampel | Ok lets move on we do not have much more time | 14:53 |
| zengyingzhe_ | My design is just for our product. If the plugins can follow it, that would be good. If not, we can discuss it. | 14:53 |
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| chenying_ | first implement abstract backup plugin | 14:53 |
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| yinweimac | first implement abstract singleTaskPlugin | 14:54 |
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| gampel | we should first show how to do it in the reference implementation | 14:54 |
| gampel | #topic Operation Service Status | 14:54 |
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| gampel | any upadtes | 14:55 |
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| gampel | updates | 14:55 |
| gampel | any updates about the API Service Status | 14:55 |
| gampel | we need to continue merging all the stack of patches, please all try to help in the review | 14:56 |
| chenying_ | API service: | 14:56 |
| chenying_ | plan Controller is done. restore is working. chenzeng will working on schedule and trigger resources Controller. | 14:56 |
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| chenying_ | anyone can develop this refer to the plan Controller. | 14:56 |
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| gampel | very good job chenying: and chenzeng: thank | 14:57 |
| xiangxinyong123 | yeah, chenzeng has also a good progress in operation engine service. | 14:57 |
| gampel | yes is he here ? | 14:57 |
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| gampel | #topic Open Issues | 14:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Issues (Meeting topic: Smaug)" | 14:57 | |
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| zhonghua-li | gampel: not yet | 14:58 |
| gampel | Ok i will catch him tomorrow morning | 14:58 |
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| gampel | any other subject | 14:58 |
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| gampel | we do not have much time left | 14:58 |
| gampel | if not thank you every one for the good work | 14:59 |
| gampel | lets continue discussing the issues in the patches/review | 14:59 |
| zhonghua-li | ok,thanks, bye | 14:59 |
| gampel | bye and thanks everyone good night | 14:59 |
| xiangxinyong123 | 88 | 15:00 |
| saggi1 | bye | 15:00 |
| chenying_ | bye | 15:00 |
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| zengyingzhe_ | see you | 15:00 |
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| gampel | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 23 15:00:36 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-02-23-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-02-23-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-02-23-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| jasondotstar | FYI: The #openstack-salt team is skipping today's scheduled meeting. | 16:02 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 23 17:01:59 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | hi, anyone here for third-party working group meeing? | 17:02 |
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| ja3 | asselin, hearing crickets? | 17:08 |
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| ja3 | asselin_, hearing crickets? | 17:09 |
| asselin_ | hi...sorry I'm in the middle of some urgent issues | 17:09 |
| mmedvede | ja3: hi. asselin is busy, so I am chairing today | 17:09 |
| ja3 | ok misha. I know the feeling, previous mtg ran over | 17:09 |
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| mmedvede | ok, at least there is one other person here | 17:10 |
| mmedvede | :) | 17:10 |
| ja3 | ...and us crickets | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | I have no announcements | 17:11 |
| ja3 | Have you been up to the usual? | 17:11 |
| mmedvede | #topic CI Watch | 17:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI Watch (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:11 | |
| mmedvede | ja3: yes. worked a bit on ciwatch, submitted more refactoring patches | 17:11 |
| mmedvede | #link Wrap db code into db.Database class https://review.openstack.org/#/c/282912/ | 17:11 |
| mmedvede | #link Refactor events functions into EvenSaver class https://review.openstack.org/#/c/283692/ | 17:12 |
| mmedvede | I was unable to "just" bolt on an end-to-end functional test without further refactoring things | 17:12 |
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| ja3 | sic? not evenTsaver? | 17:13 |
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| mmedvede | heh, typo in commit message | 17:14 |
| ja3 | I haven't looked at any of your patches; still recovering from the happy surprise of having my CI x hardware arrive. | 17:14 |
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| mmedvede | the unit test patches are hard to review, they change a lot of things around, but should result in no functionality change | 17:15 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: new hardware is great! | 17:15 |
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| mmedvede | ok, I do not think there is anything else on ciwatch. | 17:16 |
| mmedvede | #topic Common-CI Solution | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common-CI Solution (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:16 | |
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| mmedvede | #link Zuul cannot connect to openstack gerrit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/266041/ | 17:17 |
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| mmedvede | the patch above probably needs some testing. It hopefully would fix zuul connection problems for new CIs | 17:18 |
| ja3 | How complete is common-ci at this point, from a top > bottom standpoint? E.g. if I was constructing a dev CI cloud, is it mature enough today to function as a full stack replacement? Is it closer to 10% done or 90% done, wrt current intent? | 17:18 |
| mmedvede | ja3: I would say it is much better than starting from scratch yourself. I'd say closer to 90% | 17:19 |
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| mmedvede | more people use it, the more kinks would be found | 17:20 |
| mmedvede | and fixed | 17:20 |
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| mmedvede | I only use part of it, and it works well so far | 17:20 |
| mmedvede | ja3: for new CIs, puppet-openstaci would be the way to start | 17:21 |
| mmedvede | s/would be/is/ | 17:21 |
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| ja3 | our "under construction" prod is still pinned to a stable branch. once we get it running on the new hw though and start to shake out voting flows, a dev flavor will be next. sounds like puppet-openstack will be dev's base then. | 17:22 |
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| ja3 | I can't risk delaying prod voting shakeout due to anything under our control, but I have more flexibility in dev. | 17:22 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: what codebase are you using now? | 17:23 |
| mmedvede | puppet-openstackci is nice to configure zuul / nodepool / jenkins. You would still need to deploy your cloud. | 17:24 |
| mmedvede | I guess you meant stable branch of your internal configuration repository | 17:25 |
| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:26 | |
| mmedvede | ja3: is your CI reporting anything at the moment? | 17:27 |
| ja3 | misha, I've been working mostly on the tempest end, and figuring out the desired-state config of one of the test servers (since I use those for manual testing as well, so they have a longer lifetime, we configure logrotate and friends). The guy doing the puppet end of things would have to translate my "pinned to stable branch" approximation. | 17:27 |
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| ja3 | ...basically our prod is firewalled from the puppet refactoring work until we get a dev side built and work that through the new implementation. | 17:28 |
| mmedvede | this is wise | 17:29 |
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| ja3 | ...we need to be voting more than we need to be on the latest infra code, and once we start voting (correctly) the two efforts can run in parallel | 17:29 |
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| mmedvede | it is a balance. The longer you wait, it could be harder to switch to using puppet-openstackci. And the more differences your setup has with upstream, the harder it is to get help from Infra team | 17:32 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: anything else you'd like to discuss? Seems like no one else is here | 17:34 |
| ja3 | fair enough. nothing to be done with it at this point I think, our priorities have consensus internally. | 17:35 |
| ja3 | no topics from me or the crickets I guess. | 17:35 |
| mmedvede | :) | 17:35 |
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| mmedvede | overall goal of third-party wg is to make it easier for all CI maintainers | 17:36 |
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| mmedvede | and common CI helps with this by allowing to eliminate some differences | 17:37 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: thanks for showing up | 17:38 |
| ja3 | strategically, I'm all for it. from a timing standpoint, not switching horses now unless something upstream absolutely forces us to. | 17:38 |
| ja3 | thanks for sitting in the chair's chair, chair | 17:39 |
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| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 23 17:39:46 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-23-17.01.html | 17:39 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-23-17.01.txt | 17:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-23-17.01.log.html | 17:39 |
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| mmedvede | ja3 - hope to see your CI reporting soon | 17:40 |
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| mmedvede | (non voting maybe) | 17:40 |
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| ja3 | you're not the only one ;-) | 17:42 |
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| stevemar | ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek, MaxPC, tjcocozz, jorge_munoz | 17:59 |
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| rodrigods | o/ | 17:59 |
| stevemar | o/ | 17:59 |
| gyee | \o | 17:59 |
| htruta | o/ | 18:00 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:00 |
| raildo | \_o_/ | 18:00 |
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| samueldmq | howdy | 18:00 |
| ayoung | oyez oyez! | 18:00 |
| gyee | anybody coming to RSA next week? There's a Cloud Security Alliance summit on Monday | 18:00 |
| tjcocozz_ | o/ | 18:00 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| breton | o/ | 18:00 |
| tsymanczyk | o/ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | gyee, maybe nkinder. Certainly some others from my group. I'll see | 18:00 |
| henrynash | nuqneH | 18:00 |
| browne | o/ | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | (see: http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/klingon.php) | 18:01 |
| gyee | ayoung, I'll be there on Monday, and possibly Wed | 18:01 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
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| MaxPC | o/ | 18:01 |
| browne | gyee: have a link? | 18:01 |
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| gyee | browne, https://csacongress.org/event/summit-rsa-2016/ | 18:02 |
| browne | gyee: thx | 18:02 |
| marekd | hello | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | Uh... Super weird problem with laptop | 18:02 |
| gyee | browne, you can register for the free expo pass and attend CSA, if you are not interested in other sessions | 18:02 |
| nonameentername | o/ | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | Can't type, using phone | 18:03 |
| stevemar | Trying to reboot | 18:03 |
| stevemar | Someone else want to run it? | 18:03 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: hehe | 18:03 |
| browne | gyee: cool, i'm interested. need to look more into this since its in my neighborhood | 18:03 |
| morgan | gyee: run the meeting! quick before someone else | 18:03 |
| stevemar | Certain keys are not responding :/ | 18:03 |
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| gyee | k | 18:04 |
| gyee | #topic Mitaka-3 countdown | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: I can try it, but might not go smoothly since I've never done this before | 18:04 |
| gyee | EVERYBODY CODE REVIEW! | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: cool, gyee is doing it? :) | 18:05 |
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| samueldmq | gyee: ehhe | 18:05 |
| stevemar | Gyee I think you to do #startmeeting keystone | 18:05 |
| ayoung | #startmeeting keystone | 18:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 23 18:05:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ayoung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:05 |
| gyee | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:05 |
| dstanek | gyee: you have to start it! | 18:05 |
| gyee | now GTFBTW! | 18:05 |
| ayoung | #topic mitaka-3 release countdown | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mitaka-3 release countdown (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| stevemar | Yay | 18:05 |
| ayoung | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:06 |
| stevemar | wow that was so weird | 18:06 |
| stevemar | back now | 18:06 |
| stevemar | half my keys were not responding | 18:06 |
| ayoung | shadow users High Ron De Rose Good progress | 18:06 |
| ayoung | reseller (phase 1): top level projects as domains High Raildo Mascena de Sousa Filho Needs Code Review | 18:06 |
| henrynash | 5 out of the 6 needed patches for projecst acting as domains have npw merged, one to go (which is the main one): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231289/ | 18:06 |
| gyee | stevemar, supernatural events | 18:06 |
| ayoung | Project Tree Deletion/Disabling Medium Rodrigo Duarte Needs Code Review | 18:06 |
| dstanek | stevemar: you made your mac mad | 18:06 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: clearly! | 18:06 |
| ayoung | I think we should retarget owner on that last one, its not rodrigods | 18:06 |
| htruta | ayoung: you can put me on that | 18:07 |
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| * rodrigods is reviewing the code | 18:07 | |
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| rodrigods | specs, whatever | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | htruta, will do. and | 18:07 |
| morgan | stevemar: using a mac :P | 18:07 |
| ayoung | rodrigods is still involved, just not actively writign code; looks like it is | 18:07 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:project-tree-deletion-bug,n,z | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | Paulo Ewerton Gomes Fragoso and Samuel de Medeiros Queiroz with outstanding reviews | 18:08 |
| stevemar | my list of patches that need to land: http://paste.openstack.org/show/487927/ | 18:08 |
| raildo | ayoung: I'm doing the redesign related to henrynash comment on the update cascade patch | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | aysyd: I don't really care for owning/coauthoring it, just getting the thing done | 18:08 |
| stevemar | shadow users: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278570/ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | reseller: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231289/ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | projects as domains: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243585/ | 18:09 |
| ayoung | raildo, I think leave it as is unless henrynash can make his rationale more specific | 18:09 |
| htruta | stevemar: the last one is project tree deletion/update | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: not aysyd ^ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | those patches need reviewing ^ | 18:09 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: well, it doesn’t actually work as wirtten | 18:09 |
| gyee | I thought we are delaying reseller no? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | henrynash, minor point, hardly worth mentioning | 18:09 |
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| stevemar | gyee: this is the first half of reseller | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: ayoung: yes, see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/283168/ | 18:10 |
| ayoung | henrynash, are you against the concept of the cascade check? | 18:10 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: not at all | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: he agrees with the cascade check, but that isn't what the patch is doing | 18:10 |
| raildo | ayoung: we discussed earlier and we have some stuffs to fix/refactoring | 18:10 |
| stevemar | ayoung: henrynash so let's talk about the update/delete cascade | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/283168/ | 18:10 |
| ayoung | OK...drive on then | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | that's bug current bug in that code ^ | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | the current implementation relies on the person doing the cascade delete to have a role on all subprojects | 18:11 |
| stevemar | current *proposed* implementation | 18:11 |
| ayoung | ugh. ok I get it | 18:11 |
| stevemar | henrynash says nope! | 18:11 |
| raildo | stevemar: we have a issue to perform the check_protection in the subprojects | 18:11 |
| henrynash | so i made two proposals: | 18:12 |
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| * ayoung wonders how LDAP handles this | 18:12 | |
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| gyee | I think this cascading delete is going to be messy, especially if we have to coordinate project-owned resource cleanup in other services | 18:12 |
| henrynash | 1) use the current ckeck each project approach, but DON’t to teh code check for a role-per-project and just let teh plicy call handle each one (but you need to fake up the creds on each plkcy call) | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | gyee, it is done the same way as deleting a single project? | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | i think keystone send notifications for each project | 18:13 |
| henrynash | 2) have as separate policy endpint for teh cascade option | 18:13 |
| htruta | gyee: and the same way as deleting a domain too | 18:13 |
| gyee | rodrigods, we are deleting the whole tree | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | at least, should | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | the idea is to do exactly what would be done by deleting node by node | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | at all levels | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | from authz to bd changes | 18:13 |
| raildo | rodrigods: yes, keystone send a notification for each delete request | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | db* | 18:14 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I think it makes sense to follow the LDAP example here: in LDAP, you need Delete permission on each node | 18:14 |
| henrynash | if we do 1) correctly, then the policy writer can eitehr require a given role on each project, or could allow an overide for say domain_admin to do it without having a role on each project | 18:14 |
| ayoung | so...not 2 | 18:14 |
| gyee | we probably ended up needing some sort of lifecycle management framework | 18:15 |
| ayoung | henrynash, we can do a role check, though, based on the current credential passed in. I think 1) will work, if I understand you correctly | 18:15 |
| henrynash | and samueldmq and I discussed this earlier and agreed a proposed implementation | 18:15 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: ++ | 18:17 |
| ayoung | henrynash, OK, so 1) it is? Works for me | 18:17 |
| henrynash | ayoung: which will allow you to require given role per project, but also, if required, to allow a policy writer to demand additiona roles, or even to ban use of cascade if they so wish | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | I argue for cascade operations being a sort of shortcut | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | just saving time, but acting the same as a bunch of individual updates/deletes | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | so option 1 | 18:17 |
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| henrynash | agreed | 18:17 |
| stevemar | i'm okay with 1 - i believe that is what is proposed today in the patch? | 18:18 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: no, today if policy enforcement passes in the root | 18:19 |
| htruta | stevemar: it is the closest | 18:19 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: and you have any role in the subtree (any role, it really oesn't matter), ti passes | 18:19 |
| raildo | stevemar: yes, we just have to fix the (fake up the creds stuffs) | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | OK. We have a plan. Anything else need discussing on reseller or the other two>? | 18:19 |
| stevemar | reseller needs reviews | 18:20 |
| henrynash | ayoung: on reseller….yep, last patch needs reviews….cinder have fixed their quotas | 18:20 |
| stevemar | henrynash did the last one on the 20th https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231289/ | 18:20 |
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| stevemar | i think the +623, -176 is scaring folks :) | 18:20 |
| ayoung | henrynash, :"last" being which>? | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: when is the last day for cutting m-3? | 18:20 |
| henrynash | ayoung: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231289/ | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: or a better question, when are you going to cut it ? :) | 18:21 |
| stevemar | 29th | 18:21 |
| bknudson | probably broken now due to migration # | 18:21 |
| stevemar | bknudson: yep | 18:21 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: 29th | 18:21 |
| stevemar | so, monday | 18:21 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: nice, should be target reviews/merge to Friday anyways | 18:21 |
| henrynash | stevemar: we did a huge amount of work to split this out into the 6 patches, but couldn’t get the last one swmaller than this | 18:21 |
| stevemar | henrynash: i understand | 18:22 |
| ayoung | its mostly tests | 18:22 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: as soon as possible :) | 18:22 |
| stevemar | ayoung: keystone/resource/core.py319 is not mostly tests | 18:22 |
| ayoung | and long henrynash monologues in comments | 18:22 |
| stevemar | ayoung: that does happen, doesn't it! | 18:22 |
| henrynash | ayoung: to wander on a cloud..... | 18:22 |
| stevemar | :) | 18:23 |
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| samueldmq | hye, I like those comments :) | 18:23 |
| stevemar | i haven't reviewed this one yet, but i'll add it to my queue | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | very helpful for beginners specially | 18:23 |
| henrynash | keystone/resource/core.py is the key, everything else is really support | 18:23 |
| raildo | henrynash: ++ | 18:23 |
| ayoung | list_domains_from_ids is 4 lines of code (including method line itself) and 9 lines of commens | 18:23 |
| dstanek | so someone summarize the plan. policy check at the top level and just delete all the way down? or check at each level? | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, to strive, to seek, to find, and never to yield | 18:24 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: check at every level | 18:24 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: perfect, thanks | 18:25 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: np | 18:25 |
| samueldmq | so nothing besides 'review it!' ? | 18:25 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: i think so, for this patch | 18:25 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: how's shadow users? | 18:25 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: the first patch landed | 18:26 |
| stevemar | shadow part 1 - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278570/ \o/ | 18:26 |
| dstanek | but there is a bug that's being worked on | 18:26 |
| marekd | dstanek: link ? | 18:26 |
| rderose | just about to submit a patch | 18:26 |
| stevemar | rderose: awesome | 18:26 |
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| stevemar | the second patch is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279162/ | 18:27 |
| dstanek | marekd: i'd have to look back in the keystone chat to see if it was reported...if not i was going to make one | 18:27 |
| stevemar | even though it's WIP, i think rderose is accepting reviews? | 18:27 |
| rderose | stevemar: correct | 18:27 |
| stevemar | dstanek: whats the one line description of the bug | 18:27 |
| rderose | would welcome reviews at this point | 18:27 |
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| stevemar | rderose: you dont have to put everything WIP :) | 18:28 |
| dstanek | stevemar: passwords can no longer be null and that's a problem | 18:28 |
| stevemar | dstanek: yep, major change in behaviour | 18:28 |
| marekd | dstanek: no problemo. | 18:28 |
| dstanek | stevemar: 2nd line: creating with a null password should not create a password record & setting a null password should delete the existing password record | 18:28 |
| ayoung | rderose, yeah, stop that. No more WIP | 18:28 |
| rderose | ayoung :) | 18:29 |
| stevemar | ++ :) | 18:29 |
| gyee | just ask the infra guys to get rid of that button | 18:29 |
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| stevemar | i'm wondering if it's too late to sneak in a fix for the mapping engine, to allow just user's to be mapped, getting rid of our necessity for groups | 18:30 |
| ayoung | heh, nah, just don't use it for something that you actually want someoneto look at | 18:30 |
| ayoung | OK... | 18:30 |
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| gyee | stevemar, we can map to users today I think | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | rderose, you have what you need? | 18:30 |
| stevemar | gyee: only if they exist in SQL | 18:30 |
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| rderose | ayoung yeah, almost done | 18:31 |
| ayoung | rderose, ping me when you start dealing with LDAP, ok? | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | gyee: with shadow users, any federated user authenticated with keystone will have a sql entry now | 18:31 |
| stevemar | meh, it can wait til N | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | i need diagrams and time to code it | 18:31 |
| ayoung | stevemar, what can wait? | 18:31 |
| gyee | stevemar, yikes, that's going to be an adventure | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: changing the mapping engine to not need groups | 18:32 |
| ayoung | fix for the mapping engine? | 18:32 |
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| marekd | stevemar: e? | 18:32 |
| rderose | ayoung will do | 18:32 |
| marekd | stevemar: you can map to a user today | 18:32 |
| ayoung | stevemar, twould be nice. | 18:32 |
| gyee | stevemar, I am lost, are you propose getting rid of group mapping? | 18:32 |
| gyee | proposing | 18:32 |
| ayoung | OK...moving on in 3, | 18:32 |
| stevemar | marekd: only if they already exist in sql | 18:32 |
| ayoung | 2 | 18:32 |
| marekd | stevemar: they now will thanks to shadow users :-) | 18:33 |
| ayoung | 1 | 18:33 |
| marekd | stevemar: anyway, can talk later | 18:33 |
| stevemar | marekd: yep | 18:33 |
| ayoung | #topic Midcycle next summer | 18:33 |
| stevemar | boom! | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle next summer (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
| ayoung | Boston? | 18:33 |
| gyee | there will be some security implications there | 18:33 |
| marekd | gyee: with Boston? :P | 18:33 |
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| gyee | marekd, no, mapping to non-local users | 18:34 |
| stevemar | samueldmq brought up brazil to me again yesterday | 18:34 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: what's wrong with proposal to make it in Brazil? | 18:34 |
| stevemar | gyee: we can talk in -keystone after | 18:34 |
| marekd | gyee: i know, kidding | 18:34 |
| htruta | Brasil ++ | 18:34 |
| ayoung | #startvote Should Adam look in to having Midcycle in Boston? Yes, No, Abstain | 18:34 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Should Adam look in to having Midcycle in Boston? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain. | 18:34 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | not binding, just whether I should even bother to talk to people about feasability | 18:34 |
| gyee | #vote yes | 18:34 |
| stevemar | #vote yes | 18:34 |
| stevemar | yes, always helpful to have a backup | 18:35 |
| gyee | wait, are we voting for Brazil or Boston? | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | if we have reasons for not doing it here, I am okay for having it there | 18:35 |
| tsymanczyk | #vote yes | 18:35 |
| dstanek | #vote yes | 18:35 |
| stevemar | "Should Adam look in to having Midcycle in Boston?" | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | Brazil pls | 18:35 |
| lhcheng | #vote yes | 18:35 |
| bknudson | #vote yes | 18:35 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: my concern is getting everybody approved | 18:35 |
| henrynash | £no | 18:35 |
| henrynash | #no | 18:35 |
| marekd | #vote yes | 18:35 |
| morgan | #vote abstain | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | #no | 18:35 |
| htruta | #vote abstain | 18:35 |
| stevemar | henrynash: your hashtag looked funny | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: rodrigods: #no should be #vote no | 18:36 |
| rderose | #vote yes | 18:36 |
| ayoung | henrynash, any reason why not? | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | #vote no | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, thx | 18:36 |
| ayoung | you want it in England? | 18:36 |
| tjcocozz_ | #vote no | 18:36 |
| henrynash | no... | 18:36 |
| gyee | he's allergic to lobster I think :) | 18:36 |
| morgan | he wants it in san antonio again | 18:36 |
| ayoung | In July? | 18:36 |
| morgan | :P | 18:36 |
| henrynash | but I thought we were looking for bay area this time | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | I am not against it, just wanted to understand why we're changing what we've defined during midcycle? | 18:36 |
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| bknudson | this week is the neutron midcycle in rochester | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: we're taking Boston as a backup? | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | Did not know SF was primary? | 18:37 |
| stevemar | i think we're tossing out cities waaaaay too early | 18:37 |
| ayoung | #showvote | 18:37 |
| openstack | Yes (8): gyee, dstanek, lhcheng, rderose, bknudson, marekd, tsymanczyk, stevemar | 18:37 |
| openstack | Abstain (2): htruta, morgan | 18:37 |
| openstack | No (2): rodrigods, tjcocozz_ | 18:37 |
| henrynash | stevemar: ++ | 18:37 |
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| stevemar | it's up to whoever is ptl next cycle, and there are pros and cons to all places | 18:37 |
| dstanek | would the bay area be insanely expensive? | 18:37 |
| gyee | dstanek, only if you want to rent here | 18:38 |
| ayoung | #endvote | 18:38 |
| openstack | Voted on "Should Adam look in to having Midcycle in Boston?" Results are | 18:38 |
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| openstack | Yes (8): gyee, dstanek, lhcheng, rderose, bknudson, marekd, tsymanczyk, stevemar | 18:38 |
| openstack | Abstain (2): htruta, morgan | 18:38 |
| openstack | No (2): rodrigods, tjcocozz_ | 18:38 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: i don't think we decided on a place | 18:38 |
| henrynash | #invalidatevote | 18:38 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: this is by no means a decision | 18:38 |
| ayoung | OK, I'll look in to it, with noted cavetas | 18:38 |
| ayoung | caveats | 18:38 |
| gyee | dstanek, though you can have the $5 cupcakes | 18:38 |
| henrynash | (oops hope that isn’t a real command!) | 18:38 |
| ayoung | henrynash, http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/irc.html#voting | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: stevemar: okay, thanks for replying | 18:39 |
| ayoung | #topic Review of Keystone Blueprints for No-Spec Requires Status | 18:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of Keystone Blueprints for No-Spec Requires Status (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:39 | |
| samueldmq | dstanek: stevemar: I will keep my search and come with more details | 18:39 |
| ayoung | None listed. Any to cover? | 18:39 |
| stevemar | nothing here at this point | 18:39 |
| ayoung | Oh...we didn't do bugs when we did M3 | 18:39 |
| ayoung | #topic Keystone Weekly Bug Reports | 18:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone Weekly Bug Reports (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:40 | |
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| ayoung | #link http://openstack-weekly-reports.lbragstad.com/keystone-weekly-bug-report.html | 18:40 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: i don't think i can deal with 24hrs of straight travel :-P | 18:40 |
| bknudson | I have a blueprint for oslo.policy | 18:40 |
| stevemar | there are a few mitaka-3 bugs https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | amakarov_away, was working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1546562 | 18:40 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1546562 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "deleting role with implied role fails" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Alexander Makarov (amakarov) | 18:40 |
| bknudson | which is the YAML support | 18:40 |
| morgan | oh good i can drop the tempusfrangit dns entry for that | 18:40 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: great's what comes after that travel :) | 18:41 |
| ayoung | davechen removed the cascade delete. I would like to know the rationale for that | 18:42 |
| stevemar | ayoung: the only bug i'm concerned about is 1539766 | 18:42 |
| ayoung | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1539766 | 18:42 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1539766 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "trust redelegation allows trustee to create a trust (with impersonation set to true) from a redelegated trust (with impersonation set to false)" [Medium,Triaged] | 18:42 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: he actually didn't remove it, we can work on it together in the afternoon, ok? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | stevemar, Good | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: he removed the cascade delete from where? | 18:43 |
| stevemar | ayoung: re 1539766, i am OK with punting this to N | 18:43 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, it was in the comment | 18:43 |
| stevemar | its been around for a while, and no one has a patch up for it | 18:43 |
| ayoung | stevemar, looking at the state of the review | 18:43 |
| stevemar | ayoung: there's a fix for 1539766 ? | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | yep #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/276474/ is listed, but maybe only partiaL? | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | yeah, not a complete fix | 18:44 |
| stevemar | very much partial | 18:44 |
| stevemar | i'm okay with pushing this to N, it's been around for a while | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, we can keep working on that one. I think a fix like that is OK post M3 if it is uninvasive | 18:45 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: sure, it can be an RC fix | 18:45 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: i don't know the trust code base well enough to fix it | 18:46 |
| stevemar | (well, fix it easily...) | 18:46 |
| gyee | is anybody actually using impersonation? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I think oslo.policy (1) | 18:46 |
| ayoung | [Undecided:New] Bug #1547684 in oslo.policy: "Attribute error on Token object when using domain scoped token" would have been fixed by my patch | 18:46 |
| openstack | bug 1547684 in oslo.policy "Attribute error on Token object when using domain scoped token" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547684 | 18:46 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165908/ | 18:46 |
| ayoung | gyee, you need it for some old swift deploys, and maybe Barbican in the future | 18:47 |
| bknudson | this is trying to use domain scoped tokens on other projects | 18:47 |
| breton | there are also keystonemiddleware and keystoneclient mitaka-3 bugs | 18:47 |
| ayoung | bknudson, the error is due to an exception, though. It should just return false | 18:47 |
| stevemar | breton: there are? | 18:47 |
| breton | oh. | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | breton, yep, but none seemed on fire....any need attention? | 18:48 |
| breton | ok, looks like there isn't | 18:48 |
| ayoung | [Undecided:New] Bug #1544839 in python-keystoneclient: "Job gate-rally-dsvm-zaqar-zaqar fails since the recent Rally patch" | 18:48 |
| openstack | bug 1544839 in python-keystoneclient "Job gate-rally-dsvm-zaqar-zaqar fails since the recent Rally patch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544839 | 18:48 |
| ayoung | [Undecided:New] Bug #1547331 in python-keystoneclient: "AuthorizationFailure: Authorization failed: Cannot authenticate without an auth_url" | 18:48 |
| openstack | bug 1547331 in python-keystoneclient "AuthorizationFailure: Authorization failed: Cannot authenticate without an auth_url" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547331 | 18:48 |
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| breton | I just wanted to get my https://review.openstack.org/#/c/280162/ in :) | 18:48 |
| stevemar | breton: don't scare me like that | 18:48 |
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| stevemar | breton: ah that one | 18:50 |
| ayoung | breton, added the Keystone core to that review. WOrth having a few more Keystone people familar with the Horizon & D-O-A issues | 18:50 |
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| stevemar | breton: that one makes me nervous, can do it post mitaka? | 18:51 |
| stevemar | breton: i don't want to get into any more trouble for breaking people if it happens :\ | 18:51 |
| stevemar | i'm just hesitant to put things in so close to rc | 18:52 |
| gyee | stevemar, that one looks fine | 18:52 |
| breton | well, the whole change was asked by horizon people and without the patch they get nothing | 18:52 |
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| gyee | I didn't know we never convey the truncated flag on the client side | 18:53 |
| stevemar | gyee: yep, we don't | 18:53 |
| stevemar | bknudson / dstanek ^ thoughts? you guys are the pythonistas | 18:54 |
| gyee | stevemar, off topic, Horizon is also asking for info on the domain, where it is read-only, I can submit a BP later | 18:54 |
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| bknudson | we need ListWithMeta for request_ids, too | 18:54 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: oh super | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261188/9/keystoneclient/base.py | 18:55 |
| bknudson | line 598 | 18:55 |
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| dstanek | stevemar: which review? | 18:55 |
| stevemar | yeah, just saw that bknudson | 18:55 |
| stevemar | dstanek: bknudson https://review.openstack.org/#/c/280162/ | 18:56 |
| breton | bknudson: I tried to make my thing alike with with request_id one | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | 4 minutes left | 18:56 |
| stevemar | breton: what happened last time? we used an object? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | any other items to bring up? | 18:56 |
| stevemar | Collection? | 18:56 |
| bknudson | I'll put it on my review. client is pretty useless if you can't get a truncated indicator back. | 18:56 |
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| breton | stevemar: yeah, a collection | 18:56 |
| stevemar | that broke some gates/things | 18:56 |
| dstanek | breton: why name if *Meta? i thought i was going to find a metaclass | 18:57 |
| breton | stevemar: it broke because of [] == list() comparison | 18:57 |
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| stevemar | it specifically broke keysone's gate, keystoneclient tests... wheer we check that ^ | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | 3 minutes | 18:57 |
| breton | dstanek: because of request_id review, no other reason. I'm open to naming suggestiions. | 18:57 |
| stevemar | but now we nuked that file anyway | 18:57 |
| bknudson | I'll make sure it works with keystone | 18:57 |
| ayoung | STAND! IN THE DOOR! | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | sorry. flashback | 18:58 |
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| gyee | hah | 18:58 |
| dstanek | breton: TruncatedList? i'll have to actually read this review though | 18:58 |
| ayoung | breton you need more time? | 18:58 |
| stevemar | dstanek: bknudson thanks in advance for the review | 18:58 |
| breton | ayoung: no | 18:58 |
| stevemar | i'll keep to cut a new version anyway | 18:58 |
| bknudson | dstanek: ListWithMeta is the proposal for returning request_ids, too | 18:58 |
| ayoung | ok | 18:58 |
| gyee | dstanek, how about call it a mixin like the other patch? | 18:58 |
| stevemar | implied roles and domain roels are in | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | lets move to our home channel | 18:58 |
| dstanek | gyee: just kill m e | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 23 18:59:00 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| breton | dstanek: will do in ~12h if you don't change your mind | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-23-18.05.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-23-18.05.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-23-18.05.log.html | 18:59 |
| stevemar | ayoung: end it! :) | 18:59 |
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| fungi | reminder: just in case people are hanging around expecting an infra meeting, we're having the infra-cloud sprint so cancelled the irc meeting this week | 19:37 |
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| * fungi meant to say that as soon as the keystone meeting ended, but was wrapped up in sprint things | 19:37 | |
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| ttx | ... | 20:00 |
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| jaypipes | o/ | 20:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| * edleafe lurks in the shadows | 20:00 | |
| ttx | russellb, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, dtroyer, markmcclain, jeblair, sdague, dhellmann: around ? | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | yes, boarding a flight soon though | 20:00 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | and hopefully back with in flight wifi, we'll see | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | russellb: safe travels | 20:00 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:00 |
| * devananda lurks | 20:00 | |
| annegent_ | o/ here | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 23 20:00:59 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| russellb | thanks (sorry, was supposed to be in the air for this, delays) | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! I made it back from snowland | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | ttx: in how many pieces ? | 20:01 |
| ttx | We have a pretty long agenda for today, not sure we'll get to the bottom of it... | 20:01 |
| ttx | flaper87: single piece! | 20:01 |
| jeblair | ttx: welcome back! | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | ttx: good good! | 20:01 |
| annegent_ | welcome back! | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| mestery | No way we make it through the agenda, but lets try! | 20:01 |
| Keedya | Safe trip!! | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic Propose an update to the OpenStack mission statement. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Propose an update to the OpenStack mission statement. (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Let's start with this item as it may be helpful for Russell to push it at the board meeting | 20:02 |
| russellb | this is on the board meeting agenda for right after this as well | 20:02 |
| ttx | (or not) | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Personally I think that wording still fills the objective we had (adding "interoperability" and "users") | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/281463 | 20:02 |
| annegent_ | yep | 20:02 |
| dougwig | timebox? | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | I'm good with the wording | 20:02 |
| ttx | I think we can approve it now, has enough votes | 20:02 |
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| russellb | lots of +1s, no -1s, yay | 20:02 |
| mestery | ++ | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | w00h000 | 20:02 |
| sdague | it's got 9 +1s so far, and I think everyone that spoke up in the thread has voted here | 20:02 |
| russellb | thanks | 20:02 |
| ttx | unless someone wants to try to convince most of the current +1s | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | russellb: thanks for working on that | 20:03 |
| ttx | to switch | 20:03 |
| russellb | i just did the paperwork | 20:03 |
| ttx | ok, approving in 30 seconds | 20:03 |
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| russellb | thanks to several others for nice work on the wording | 20:03 |
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| ttx | ok, it's in | 20:03 |
| annegent_ | sweet | 20:03 |
| russellb | hopefully the board will be happy this time | 20:03 |
| ttx | russellb: you can bring it to the board meeting now | 20:03 |
| russellb | thanks | 20:03 |
| annegent_ | russellb: thanks for taking it across the finish line | 20:03 |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | russellb: yes, thanks russellb | 20:04 |
| russellb | np :) | 20:04 |
| ttx | #topic Add project Dragonflow to OpenStack big-tent | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add project Dragonflow to OpenStack big-tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/277153 | 20:04 |
| ttx | It's more of a governance clarification than a project addition, so I'm +1 on this | 20:04 |
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| russellb | i hadn't voted on the latest one, added +1 | 20:05 |
| ttx | or as I said on the review, "unless we think it was a complete mistake for the Neutron team to accept it under the Neutron stadium, we should accept it here" | 20:05 |
| sdague | right, this was part of neutron, now it stands on it's own, right? | 20:05 |
| russellb | yes | 20:05 |
| russellb | it's a neutron backend | 20:05 |
| sdague | ship it | 20:05 |
| ttx | sdague: yes | 20:05 |
| russellb | is the tl;dr | 20:05 |
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| ttx | ok, we have 7 +1s. Objections ? | 20:05 |
| mestery | No objections here | 20:05 |
| markmcclain | none from me | 20:05 |
| jaypipes | nope. | 20:06 |
| sdague | importantly we have 7 +1s, including all the network specialists | 20:06 |
| ttx | yep | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I think we're going to have to be very careful with these neutron spin-outs given the recent open-core analysis for poppy | 20:06 |
| markmcclain | dhellmann: ++ | 20:06 |
| russellb | sure. | 20:06 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: agreed | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | it doesn't apply here, but something that only works if you've bought equipment from someone... | 20:06 |
| russellb | in this case, all the code is dragonflow itself | 20:06 |
| russellb | right | 20:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes, but I don't think dragonflow (or kuryr) are in the grey area | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: s/neutron spinouts/all projects applying for big tent/ | 20:06 |
| mestery | The open core discussion pops up earlier than I would have thought | 20:06 |
| ttx | approving now | 20:06 |
| mestery | dragonflow and kuryr are not open core | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes : yes, though my impression of the number of spin-outs from neutron with a high chance of encountering that issue is greater than average | 20:07 |
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| ttx | #topic Add project Kuryr to OpenStack big-tent | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add project Kuryr to OpenStack big-tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:07 | |
| russellb | i don't even know what the spin outs are going to be yet | 20:07 |
| dougwig | dhellmann: it is. there are a lot of networking-bigphathardware repos. | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | mestery : right, I don't think so. I'm just pointing out a side-effect of that other discussion | 20:07 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/280522 | 20:07 |
| ttx | I think this is the same case as Dragonflow | 20:07 |
| mestery | Hard to argue against Kuryr being added here | 20:07 |
| markmcclain | this one already has 10 +1s too | 20:07 |
| russellb | kuryr is an easy one for me | 20:07 |
| mestery | Right | 20:07 |
| ttx | might even be easier | 20:07 |
| mestery | Easy one | 20:07 |
| mestery | Ship it ttx! | 20:07 |
| ttx | shipping | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | neeeeeeext | 20:07 |
| ttx | next should likely trigger more discussion | 20:08 |
| dougwig | 3 agenda items and no bikeshedding. is a virus going around or something? | 20:08 |
| ttx | #topic Vote on whether Poppy is open core or not | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vote on whether Poppy is open core or not (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:08 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/278247 | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | dougwig: sssshh | 20:08 |
| russellb | dougwig: saving up energy for other stuff | 20:08 |
| ttx | So... Poppy raised non-technical and technical issues. The latter could be fixed before inclusion. | 20:08 |
| ttx | But since it's unfair to ask them for technical changes if we intend to reject them on non-technical changes anyway, this review was calling for an early determination on the non-technical issues | 20:08 |
| russellb | i'm not sure "open core" is the right term, but i still don't think this is openstack | 20:08 |
| ttx | It feels like there are now 3 parties on this one | 20:08 |
| sdague | russellb: ++ | 20:08 |
| ttx | The first one looks at the "how" and says Poppy's team behaves like an OpenStack project, its intentions are pure and it's a useful project, and therefore it should be allowed in (that would be mordred, dhellmann, jeblair, flaper87 and markmcclain) | 20:09 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 20:09 |
| ttx | The second one looks at the "what", sees the lack of open source reference implementation, and considers it should therefore be rejected under our current understanding of the "no open core" requirement (that would be sdague, russellb and mestery) | 20:09 |
| edleafe | not being open core isn't enough to make it openstack | 20:09 |
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| ttx | The third party looks at the "why". While it considers Poppy can't really be considered "open core" in any way, it looks at Poppy's mission, which is to proxy to external non-OpenStack cloud services, and considers that it's not what "OpenStack" mission is (that would be dtroyer, jaypipes, annegentle and me) | 20:09 |
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| ttx | The "why" and "what" parties add up, so NO leads 7-5 at this stage | 20:09 |
| russellb | nice summary | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | yup | 20:10 |
| sdague | I would also consider myself part of group 3 | 20:10 |
| sdague | but we didn't get multi select :) | 20:10 |
| ttx | sdague: heh | 20:10 |
| ttx | 2 and 3 | 20:10 |
| mestery | sdague: I'm also in group 3 :) | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | sdague : yeah, no voting twice :-) | 20:10 |
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| flaper87 | I guess that's the result | 20:10 |
| annegent_ | heh sdague :) | 20:10 |
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| ttx | Unless someone wants to make a case to move the lines, feels like No wins. Who didn't vote yet ? | 20:11 |
| ttx | lifeless | 20:11 |
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| lifeless | hai | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | One thing I want to make sure is that we don't kick the project out of the openstack organization | 20:11 |
| sdague | I feel like all the words that are going to be said have been. People were pretty expressive in the reviews. | 20:11 |
| ttx | hi! Where do you side ? | 20:11 |
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| ttx | I'd like to say that my NO is pretty weak. I could survive a Yes | 20:11 |
| lifeless | I'm certainly no *as it stands* | 20:11 |
| jeblair | sdague: i agree | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | I don't remember who said that or where I read that but I just want to make sure the project is allowed to stay in the organization and use CI resources | 20:12 |
| lifeless | I think the what aspects can be addressed, if the team chooses | 20:12 |
| ttx | lifeless: on this review we are saying "No even if they fix things" | 20:12 |
| annegent_ | flaper87: same here | 20:12 |
| sdague | flaper87: yes, agreed | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : yes, I don't think that's in question | 20:12 |
| jeblair | lifeless: i think we're only focusing on the 'soft' aspects right now | 20:12 |
| ttx | so a yes here doesn't mean an immediate addition | 20:12 |
| anteaya | flaper87: the project is not in danger of losing access to ci resources | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | coolio, I just remember reading it and pulled my hair off | 20:12 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: i am 'no' because of other issues (that poppy can fix) | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | jeblair, lifeless : ditto | 20:13 |
| jeblair | it is worth being clear on that (and i do think the change is clear on that) | 20:13 |
| mestery | So how to proceed? Unless people are changing votes this looks like it won't make it. | 20:13 |
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| flaper87 | All that said, I think this was an awesome case for us to use as reference in the future. Lots of study and discussions happened and although I'm on the Yes side, I think the result shows a good community work on finding the answer for such hard question | 20:13 |
| ttx | I think everyone agrees that Poppy shouldn't be accepted today. The question is... we shouldn't list the gaps if we intend to reject them anyway | 20:13 |
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| mestery | The 7-5 vote here makes it seem like that's the case | 20:14 |
| annegent_ | I think a natural next extension of that good discussion is "what does purposeful expansion look like?" | 20:14 |
| ttx | mestery: If this is rejected, the other one should be rejected too | 20:14 |
| sdague | ttx: agreed, that just seems like extra work that's not useful | 20:14 |
| annegent_ | but I don't want to conflate yet | 20:14 |
| mestery | ++ | 20:14 |
| ttx | I guess they could reapply one day if they feel the lines have moved | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | or if an open source solution is created | 20:15 |
| ttx | but as they stand today, they can be hosted under openstack infra, but should not become an official project | 20:15 |
| lifeless | ok, words said, +1 voted | 20:15 |
| * ttx reads | 20:15 | |
| lifeless | error server unavailale. | 20:15 |
| lifeless | thanks gerrit | 20:15 |
| mestery | lol | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: lol | 20:16 |
| lifeless | right, there | 20:16 |
| ttx | if you vote +1, that makes it a pretty weak decision, especially considering how strongly I feel about a NO vote | 20:16 |
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| * flaper87 is having a deja-vu | 20:16 | |
| annegent_ | lifeless: hah | 20:16 |
| ttx | so maybe we should decide to reject them today but consider revisiting next cycle | 20:16 |
| sdague | I think we decide and move on | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | It feels a lot like Zaqar days but different topic :P | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: decide, move on | 20:17 |
| ttx | alright, I'll abandon this review | 20:17 |
| russellb | they can re-apply later if they want | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | I guess I'd rather have a weak rejection than a weak addition | 20:17 |
| sdague | because there were votes that flip to -1 on the second patch which were +1 on the first | 20:17 |
| russellb | if sands shift | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | I've been on both sides now and even when Zaqar was rejected, the weak rejection made more sense | 20:17 |
| ttx | We should reapply our -1s on https://review.openstack.org/273756 as well | 20:17 |
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| mestery | ++ to possibly re-applying later | 20:18 |
| lifeless | flaper87: your -1 seems to be entirely pragmatic - 'we can't test this' | 20:18 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/273756 | 20:18 |
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| flaper87 | lifeless: I +1'd it | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure why we would encourage them to reapply until there was a way to solve the issues for the open core folks, or the "not just a proxy" folks. | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: mmh | 20:18 |
| lifeless | flaper87: ah, cool | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: :P | 20:19 |
| lifeless | flaper87: oh, nick confusion actully :) | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:19 |
| * russellb boarding plane ... sorry | 20:20 | |
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| flaper87 | russellb: take care | 20:20 |
| sdague | ok, next topic? | 20:20 |
| annegent_ | travel safe russellb! | 20:20 |
| russellb | 403063 | 20:20 |
| annegent_ | safely? I dunno. | 20:20 |
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| flaper87 | annegent_: "make sure you land" works too | 20:21 |
| anteaya | annegent_: I use travel safe | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ? | 20:21 |
| dougwig | flaper87: landing is guaranteed. | 20:21 |
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| flaper87 | dougwig: lol | 20:21 |
| annegent_ | ha | 20:21 |
| ttx | redacting the answer | 20:21 |
| lifeless | dougwig: *stopping* is guaranteed... | 20:21 |
| ttx | I just abandoned the main Poppy review | 20:21 |
| lifeless | dougwig: landing is more narrowly defined :) | 20:22 |
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| ttx | Alright, next topic | 20:22 |
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| ttx | #topic Applying Tacker for Big Tent | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Applying Tacker for Big Tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:22 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/276417 | 20:22 |
| ttx | Another difficult edge case here... | 20:22 |
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| * russellb delays getting on | 20:22 | |
| ttx | I'm leaning towards yes at this stage, for the reasons outlined in my review comment | 20:22 |
| annegent_ | I'll be honest, that one has me struggling to understand. Is it docs/ref arch? Or code? | 20:23 |
| russellb | it's another IaaS+ like project, focused on some NFV use cases, they have good intentions around integration | 20:23 |
| russellb | seems fine to me | 20:23 |
| russellb | code | 20:23 |
| ttx | but again I could survive the opposite result, and some people fell a lot more strongly about this than I seem to do | 20:23 |
| ttx | feel* | 20:23 |
| ttx | I think we should still list a set of integration gaps that we'd like them to fill before/after being approved though | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | russellb : if the integration isn't done, is the project mature enough to be official? | 20:23 |
| annegent_ | do we have a jaypipes? | 20:23 |
| markmcclain | I think I'm only negative vote... my concern is the lack of proper integration | 20:24 |
| annegent_ | ttx: that would help, yeah | 20:24 |
| ttx | markmcclain: no; jaypipes was pretty vocal | 20:24 |
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| annegent_ | heh right markmcclain that's why I'd like to hear more from jaypipes | 20:24 |
| markmcclain | ttx: ah right | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | annegent_: yes, I am here :) | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | annegent_: what more would you care for me to expand on? | 20:24 |
| mestery | They have plans for integration which I'm comfortable with | 20:24 |
| mestery | I think jaypipes concerns are more interesting here | 20:25 |
| mestery | E.g. "Is this really OpenStack?" | 20:25 |
| markmcclain | mestery: plans are great would just like to wait for execution of them | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | markmcclain: FWIW, we've let other projects with "plans" in | 20:25 |
| mestery | Right | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | And those plans have been executed, AFAIK. | 20:25 |
| anteaya | have they? | 20:25 |
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| flaper87 | I don't see why we should block Tracker on that | 20:26 |
| markmcclain | flaper87: but those projects already some level of integration | 20:26 |
| anteaya | thingee has been doing work on this with some projects | 20:26 |
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| lifeless | explain to me again how this isn't neutron's advanced services? | 20:26 |
| jaypipes | flaper87: it's Tacker. | 20:26 |
| annegent_ | jaypipes: if we rejected anything on "simple to implement" the list would be long :) | 20:26 |
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| jaypipes | annegent_: indeed. | 20:26 |
| ttx | Personally I think enabling the NFV use case is a part of making a ubiquitous cloud computing platform. I'd prefer if the glue code lived in the consumer side, but as it stands I think it will end up being better integrated if official than if non-official | 20:26 |
| mestery | ttx: Well said | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | mestery, flaper87 : I'll repeat my question for you then since I think russellb boarded his flight: If the integration isn't already done, how much of this exists and how much is a plan? Is it mature enough to be official? | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | ttx: OK, I will add my purpose-built business application orchestrator to OpenStack then. | 20:27 |
| annegent_ | jaypipes: also is it NFV MANO that is the distinct issue for you? | 20:27 |
| mestery | dhellmann: Did you read Sridhar's comment? They have shifted priority to make the integraiton the thing they are doing right now (I haven't looked to see if it's merged yet) | 20:27 |
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| mestery | "@Russell - For the record, we don't have any code in our repo today that circumvents neutron. For our upcoming efforts, we have rearranged our tasks such that neutron integration will happen first [1]. For any integration with SDN Controllers (like ODL) we will go through neutron. This should address the concerns related to neutron integration. " | 20:27 |
| russellb | just got back on sirry | 20:27 |
| russellb | they do have some integration (uses Heat) | 20:27 |
| russellb | the network side isn't done, but it's not that it doesn't exist | 20:27 |
| mestery | From Sridarh in hte review | 20:27 |
| mestery | Right | 20:27 |
| mestery | russellb: See my ^^^ pasted above | 20:27 |
| lifeless | the bit that worries me specifically is 'tacker will use neutron-sfc as the default underlying sfc of choice'... | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: my understanding, from russellb's research and comments, is that it's mature enough. I don't think my knowldege about networking and neutron is broad enough to be 100% sure but yeah, I think it's mature enough | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | mestery : ok, but we've typically rejected projects that say "right now I'm going to build something that doesn't exist, it should be official" | 20:28 |
| lifeless | like, if its part of openstack, why is that going to be pluggab;e ? | 20:28 |
| ttx | jaypipes: what does MANO mean already ? I'm lost in acronyms again | 20:28 |
| jaypipes | annegent_: it is the purpose-built part that shapes the direction and customs of OpenStack towards NFV specificity (for the worse) that concerns me. That, and the fact that it's a monolithic application that should, by nature, live in the application ecosystem. | 20:28 |
| jaypipes | ttx: welcome to telco. management and orchestration. | 20:28 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless : good point, what other options are there? | 20:28 |
| russellb | i don't think it shapes anything when it's a separate optional projcet that most wont' have to use/care about | 20:28 |
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| annegent_ | MANO MANagement & Orchestration | 20:29 |
| mestery | lifeless: You could bypass Neutron completely and use some bizzare ODL SFC API | 20:29 |
| mestery | lifeless: That appears to be what they WERE doing with POC code | 20:29 |
| russellb | re: "is NFV MANO" in scope, i tihnk that question should be more broad about where we want to draw the line for openstack | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | annegent_ : maybe you and I can teach some network vendors words instead of acronyms | 20:29 |
| russellb | and this review shouldn't become the proxy battle | 20:29 |
| mestery | My understanding is they abanonded that | 20:29 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: srsly | 20:29 |
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| anteaya | dhellmann: ++ | 20:29 |
| russellb | several vendors are bypassing openstack and neutron to do this | 20:29 |
| lifeless | mestery: sure - on a technical level. I'm trying to understand how that makes sense - it would be like Nova bypassing keystone and using kerberos directly | 20:29 |
| sdague | dhellmann: I don't think that's possible | 20:30 |
| markmcclain | annegent_: that should be vsrsly | 20:30 |
| russellb | at least they're trying to do some unification | 20:30 |
| jaypipes | russellb: I understand your viewpoint. I just happen to disagree. I ask you to ponder my question of what you would think if I proposed a Let's-Orchestrate-Jaypipes-Website-Topology application to OpenStack. | 20:30 |
| mestery | lifeless: Right, that's why they abanonded that approach | 20:30 |
| ttx | jaypipes: So the alternative is to let it live outside of OpenStack (hosted on OpenStack infra since OpenNFV doesn't have code). I just feel like it won't be as deeply integrated as it should be though, resulting in an inferior integration | 20:30 |
| annegent_ | russellb: bypass might be perfectly okay to not overload OpenStack though. | 20:30 |
| lifeless | mestery: the words from sirdhar leave me feeling unsure that they *have* abandoned it | 20:30 |
| russellb | annegent_: i'd argue bypass makes openstack irrelevant | 20:30 |
| mestery | jaypipes: Your concerns are the ones that make me thinkg to be honest | 20:30 |
| sdague | ttx: in what way? Isn't it only using published APIs | 20:30 |
| russellb | part of our mission is creating useful abstractions | 20:30 |
| mestery | The question of "is this openstack" is something I *think* I can answer as yes, but I could be swayed the other way too | 20:31 |
| ttx | sdague: it could use more of Heat, iiuc | 20:31 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i hear you, i look at it more like Magnum, or trove, or murano, or some other orchestration level projcet | 20:31 |
| sdague | ttx: how? | 20:31 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i guess i don't see how this crosses the line but those don't | 20:31 |
| mestery | russellb: Those are good comparisons | 20:31 |
| jaypipes | ttx: I do not want to be held hostage by the telco community threatening to run away and play in their own sandbox and fork OpenStack, true. but I'm wary of getting telco-specific components in OpenStack that lead us down a slippery slope. | 20:31 |
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| sdague | I actually don't understand how you can use more / less of Heat, or Neutron if you are part of openstack or not | 20:31 |
| russellb | sdague: re: Heat, particularly around VM monitoring and failure recovery | 20:32 |
| sdague | less of openstack might directly consume you if you are not openstack | 20:32 |
| russellb | Heat is working in that domain, they've started an early approach of their own, which we discussed in the review | 20:32 |
| jaypipes | russellb: magnum, murano, and trove are not purpose-built for one industry. | 20:32 |
| sdague | but not the other way around | 20:32 |
| lifeless | how does this compare with akanda btw ? | 20:32 |
| ttx | sdague: what russellb said | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | lifeless : lots of overlap | 20:32 |
| russellb | jaypipes: this is useful beyond telco IMO | 20:32 |
| russellb | it's a more generally useful network thingy to me | 20:33 |
| russellb | NFV is the driver, but it's not *only* applicable there | 20:33 |
| sdague | hmmm... I guess if you have to be OpenStack to use Heat to it's fullest, that seems like a different problem | 20:33 |
| russellb | very applicable to enterprise security | 20:33 |
| jaypipes | russellb: name one application outside of telco. | 20:33 |
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| flaper87 | Do we have Tracker folks around? | 20:34 |
| ttx | sdague: no, my point is, we can encourage smarter integration with OpenStack if it's under the TC's oversight, and we don't have that much influence to get them to do the right things if they are merely hosted under openstack infra | 20:34 |
| mestery | flaper87: No, but we have Tacker folks around I bet ;) | 20:34 |
| sridhar_ram | flaper87: I'm here... | 20:34 |
| mestery | sridhar_ram: Howdy :) | 20:34 |
| ttx | sdague: it's arguably a pretty weak argument | 20:34 |
| russellb | jaypipes: a more complex firewall that does deep packet inspection | 20:34 |
| russellb | is not a telco specific thing | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | russellb: enterprise security would *consume* the telco VNFs that would be orchestrated by Tacker, though. that doesn't make Tacker not telco-specific. | 20:34 |
| ttx | sdague: as I said elesewhere, I'm a bit on the fence on this one, just leaning towards yes | 20:35 |
| russellb | it's definitely "networking services" specific | 20:35 |
| jeblair | jaypipes: what makes them telco-specific at that point? | 20:35 |
| annegent_ | sdague: jaypipes: yeah the orchestration part is an interesting parallel but frankly that decision was made already, that orchestration works better when teams/projects work together. | 20:35 |
| russellb | and i see that more broad than telco | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | sridhar_ram: hey, thanks for joining. It'd be useful for you to help clarifying some of the questions floating around | 20:35 |
| sridhar_ram | IMO we don't have a overlap w/ Astara as it is just an neutron backend.. our scope is beyond simple advanced service, into things like vIMS, vEPC, etc | 20:35 |
| lifeless | oh yeah, I remember, akanda -> astara | 20:35 |
| ttx | jeblair: it's more tailored to telco needs than telco-specific I think | 20:35 |
| mestery | ttx: Well said | 20:36 |
| russellb | sure. | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | sridhar_ram : you're going to have to remember that most of us have no idea what the acronyms in this space mean. I, at least, don't know what you just said about "vIMS..." | 20:36 |
| ttx | others could use it. But they would have to enter that weird mindset first :) | 20:36 |
| sdague | annegent_: sure, I guess, I think that if we think moving 1 bit causes collaboration between teams, we over estimate our influence :) | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: that makes it 2 of us | 20:36 |
| annegent_ | sdague: heh too true | 20:36 |
| lifeless | sdague: +1 | 20:36 |
| sridhar_ram | IMO tacker has the tents of a Template base lifecycle orchestrator.. this has benefits beyond telco but our initial focus is definitely telco operators | 20:36 |
| russellb | imagine VPNaaS, FWaaS, LBaaS ... this is a more generic solution to that, for networking service of your choice | 20:36 |
| * flaper87 barely knows what an IP address is | 20:36 | |
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| dougwig | ttx: i'm not sure NFV is that weird a mindset once you're virtualizing your network. it's just the next step. | 20:37 |
| russellb | create Nova instances that do *stuff* to packets | 20:37 |
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| lifeless | flaper87: on the internet, noone knows if you are an ip address | 20:37 |
| ttx | sdague: in particular tacker could be turned into something more like service-VMs as a service, and I see being official (and under TC oversight) as a way to encourage that | 20:37 |
| markmcclain | russellb: you just described Astara | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: lol | 20:37 |
| mestery | dougwig : ++ | 20:37 |
| russellb | markmcclain: no i didn't, astara doesn't provide an API | 20:38 |
| sridhar_ram | dhellmann: I'm w/ you :) these a complex "applications" that include 7 - 8 VMs that needs to be deployed, monitored, scale, etc | 20:38 |
| russellb | and the overlap argument is weak when you argued that it wasn't an issue to get astara accepted in the first place | 20:38 |
| mestery | markmcclain: I'm personally fine with having overlap in this space, as it's an outer ring type of thing | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | russellb : astara uses neutron's api | 20:38 |
| russellb | dhellmann: public API | 20:38 |
| mestery | E.g. Octavia does some of this too | 20:38 |
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| mestery | russellb: ++ | 20:38 |
| lifeless | dougwig: its not even the next step - its just much more generic than e.g. wccp | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | russellb : yes, it responds to things that happen when you call neutron's api | 20:38 |
| russellb | right, this is a new API on top of neutron and nova | 20:38 |
| sdague | ttx: maybe, again, I think you overestimate TC influence on such things :) Honestly, I'm on the fence. I see there are some strong opposes and that tends to give me pause. | 20:39 |
| russellb | to orchestrate neutron and nova resources to create new networking things | 20:39 |
| lifeless | sdague: FWIW I'm not opposing, I'm still trying to really grok what we're being asked | 20:39 |
| dougwig | mestery: indeed it does. NFV is not a space where we'd want to pick just a single horse, imo. | 20:39 |
| lifeless | my biggest concern is that this is being defined by a not-openstack-group | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | russellb: I'm very supportive of efforts to standardize and make granular the REST API services that applications like Tacker would use in its application logic. Those low-level REST APIs are, to me, part of OpenStack. I don't see a purpose-built application that calls OpenStack APIs "part of OpenStack" though. If that is the condition that furthers the mission of OpenStack, then we will inevitably see an influx of | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | OSS/BSS systems from telcos be proposed into OpeNStack. I can guarantee that. | 20:39 |
| russellb | argh, flight attendent making me shut down | 20:39 |
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| jaypipes | heh :) | 20:40 |
| mestery | russellb: Nooooooo! | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | :) | 20:40 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i'd love to have a more general debate about where we draw that line | 20:40 |
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| sridhar_ram | russellb: stay on, please | 20:40 |
| sridhar_ram | :) | 20:40 |
| lifeless | russellb: what sort of repressive regime are you flying on! | 20:40 |
| russellb | delta! | 20:40 |
| anteaya | sridhar_ram: he risks being removed from the plane | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | let the flight attendant do their job! :) | 20:40 |
| anteaya | been there | 20:40 |
| * flaper87 knew it was delta | 20:40 | |
| russellb | bye | 20:40 |
| lifeless | ciao | 20:40 |
| sridhar_ram | annegent_: I'm trying to having him kicked ;-) | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | sridhar_ram: :) | 20:41 |
| anteaya | sridhar_ram: he is advocating for your patch | 20:41 |
| thingee | jaypipes: +1 | 20:41 |
| anteaya | so that is an odd choice you make | 20:41 |
| lifeless | sridhar_ram: so tell me about the governance | 20:41 |
| jeblair | anteaya: that's why he wants him off the plane so he can stay in the meeting | 20:41 |
| ttx | sridhar_ram: could you describe in your own words how being part of OpenStack (vs. just being hosted under openstack infra) would benefit Tacker ? | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | ttx, sridhar_ram : also benefit OpenStack | 20:42 |
| sridhar_ram | another way to look at this ... if an NFV operator need to do "NFV" on OpenStack today he need to go through a DIY across nova, heat, etc.. just makes it easy to do NFV on OpenStack | 20:42 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: vEPC == virtual evolved packet core. vIMS == virtual internet media services (or something like that... | 20:42 |
| annegent_ | oh thank you jaypipes | 20:42 |
| ttx | It appears that the main tension here is that this is a business application consuming OpenStack, so it's not OpenStack | 20:42 |
| mestery | jaypipes: You've been doing your homework my friend | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes : maybe switching to words is pointless, I still don't know what any of that is :-) | 20:42 |
| lifeless | sridhar_ram: well they don't - they can use e.g. astara (not astara-neutron, thats only a subset, astara itself is rather more) | 20:42 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: :) | 20:42 |
| sridhar_ram | IMO this is biggest blocker in having someone consume OpenStack for NFV | 20:42 |
| ttx | jaypipes.com, reverse acronym proxy | 20:42 |
| dtroyer | ttx +++ | 20:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | lifeless: Astara is just a neutron backend.. that doesn't cut it for NFV operators.. | 20:43 |
| sridhar_ram | NFV / VNF != Neutron.. | 20:43 |
| mestery | lifeless: I don't see why we'd force them to do that, I think having competition at this layer of the stack is fine | 20:43 |
| lifeless | sridhar_ram: Perhaps markmcclain can comment more, but that doesn't match my understanding of Astara | 20:43 |
| thingee | dhellmann: not sure how you've gone all this time without your VEPC's and your vIM's. | 20:43 |
| sridhar_ram | their world is bigger ... | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | the biggest blocker is complexity I believe... and this is certainly complexity | 20:43 |
| mestery | Again, see Octavia | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | thingee : I'm a luddite. | 20:43 |
| markmcclain | sridhar_ram: not true... Astara implements a backend for neutron, but is actually a pluggable orchestrator of network services | 20:43 |
| devananda | we have some OpenStack applications already that orchestrate calls to other OpenStack APIs to create complex application-specific resources from them -- Heat, in the general sense. Trove and Magnum and Sahara, in the specific sense. | 20:43 |
| lifeless | mestery: I'm probably fine with it too, but I want clarity on the discussion, and claiming there isn't overlap when markmcclain is claiming there is means we don't have clarity | 20:43 |
| mestery | I also fail to see why we'd not let Tacker in but we let Magnum in | 20:44 |
| mestery | But maybe that's just me | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | devananda : as pointed out earlier, those feel more general purpose | 20:44 |
| devananda | I'm missing the way that Tacker is different from all those projects that run on top of the IaaS layer | 20:44 |
| lifeless | mestery: (again, I'm not positioning this to say -1, but to actually know what I'm voting on) | 20:44 |
| mestery | lifeless: Good man :) | 20:44 |
| sridhar_ram | We are missing a standards based Template based orchestrator in NFV operators.. | 20:44 |
| ttx | So I understand why Jay opposes it -- business-specific glue code that lets an industry leverage OpenStack should not be considered part of OpenStack. | 20:44 |
| lifeless | so I'd really like to have a discussion where markmcclain and sridhar_ram are both singing the same hymns | 20:44 |
| devananda | dhellmann: how is tacker less general purpose? | 20:45 |
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| ttx | Not sure I understand why markmcclain opposes it, except overlap with Astara | 20:45 |
| mestery | lifeless: Why? Again, I think competition at this layer is ok | 20:45 |
| sridhar_ram | we can't have them have them go through Nova extra_spec, neutron-sfc API, Heat APIs...etc | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:45 |
| lifeless | because - the thing I'm *actually* worried about with tacker is that it won't be controlled by the openstack community | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | devananda : the assertion was made that only telco operators would have any real interest in it? I'm still trying to understand if that's true. | 20:45 |
| lifeless | mestery: ^ | 20:45 |
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| mestery | I don't see why we should mint winners and losers at this level of the stack | 20:45 |
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| sridhar_ram | this is what some operators are doing it ... doing it by themselves.. | 20:45 |
| lifeless | mestery: not trying to pick winers or losers | 20:45 |
| mestery | lifeless: Now *that* is a valid concern | 20:45 |
| markmcclain | ttx: so my opposition to the current vote is lack of real integration | 20:46 |
| mestery | lifeless: We are picking winners and losers when use Astara as a reason to not include tacker | 20:46 |
| ttx | I'm sympathetic to Jay's argument fwiw. That is why I'm hesitating | 20:46 |
| lifeless | mestery: happy to have competition. Don't want something that a different governance body is dictating outside of of purview | 20:46 |
| sdague | ok, so this takes TOSCA templates and does openstack apis to make things happen. Does Heat do TOSCA ? I thought it did? | 20:46 |
| ttx | markmcclain: could it be fixed ? | 20:46 |
| mestery | lifeless: If we let them in, we get to boot them out | 20:46 |
| lifeless | mestery: but I haven't used Astara's position as a reason for that | 20:46 |
| mestery | ttx: It *is* being fixed | 20:46 |
| markmcclain | ttx: yes and stated I'd vote yes | 20:46 |
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| mestery | sridhar_ram: See ttx's question there | 20:46 |
| markmcclain | mestery: the comments by sridhar_ram says it's in process | 20:46 |
| anteaya | mestery: who have we booted out? | 20:46 |
| ttx | markmcclain: so your vote is more of a "no, not yet" | 20:46 |
| mestery | Right | 20:46 |
| sridhar_ram | sdague: yes, we are indeed using tosca-parser and heat-translator in Tacker | 20:46 |
| mestery | IT is being fixed | 20:46 |
| sdague | I'm in the lifeless camp, I kind of still don't fully undestand | 20:46 |
| markmcclain | ttx: correct | 20:46 |
| ttx | ok, got it | 20:46 |
| anteaya | mestery: that argument holds no water with me, since we don't do that | 20:46 |
| markmcclain | ttx: the overlap concern is a follow up question we should tackle | 20:47 |
| jeblair | sdague, lifeless: count me in too | 20:47 |
| lifeless | mestery: here's the scenario I'm worried about. tacker is functionally == astara, but different because group A and group B haven't actually talked, rather than any technical reason | 20:47 |
| mestery | I don't even ... | 20:47 |
| devananda | dhellmann: I don't see how "only group X is interested" is a valid reason to keep something out of openstack, if that group of people contribute to and maintain the project(s) | 20:47 |
| markmcclain | ttx: specifically how can we encourage convergence | 20:47 |
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| lifeless | mestery: and tacker isn't talking to astara because its being driven by OPNFV teams | 20:47 |
| sridhar_ram | ttx: markmcclain: we are indeed going to do SFC using neutron-sfc.. period | 20:47 |
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| mestery | lifeless: We're picking winners again | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | devananda : I'm not sure I'm arguing for or against that position, just trying to state things clearly. | 20:47 |
| mestery | Personally, I don't want to do that at this layer of the stack | 20:47 |
| jaypipes | annegent_, dhellmann: vIMS == virtual IP-based Multimedia Services. I was close enough. Can never remember all the acronyms :( | 20:47 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: we haven't, but we absolutely can. | 20:48 |
| devananda | dhellmann: I see, thanks. | 20:48 |
| ttx | OK, we need more votes then. Missing jeblair, mordred lifeless dhellmann dtroyer sdague | 20:48 |
| lifeless | mestery: no; I'd vote +1 in a heartbeat if the external governance aspect was clearer to me, and all my questions are trying to get to the bottom of that | 20:48 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: sure we can, but as an arguement in decision making, it is an anti-arguement as far as I am concerned | 20:48 |
| lifeless | mestery: and - if the reason for competition is the governance aspects, then yes I'd vote -1 *because of that, not that its competition* | 20:48 |
| devananda | if the project is not / does not want to be part of openstack governance, that's a clear blocker IMO. | 20:48 |
| dtroyer | I'm still trying to understand why we want application layers in OpenStack… is an ERM coming next for Enterprise-readiness? | 20:48 |
| jeblair | anteaya: that's a fair point, just wanted to be clear :) | 20:49 |
| anteaya | jeblair: yup, fair enough | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | sridhar_ram : I see that most of the folks contributing to this are from intel and brocade. I don't have an easy way to tell whether they're contributing to other projects like neutron or heat. Do you know if they are? | 20:49 |
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| dhellmann | mestery : we do have an obligation to evaluate gratuitous overlap, so please let us at least ask the question without getting bent out of shape. | 20:49 |
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| sdague | especially when something else is adding a forward REST API | 20:50 |
| jaypipes | dtroyer: yup that is precisely what I'm afraid of. | 20:50 |
| mestery | dhellmann: We did the same thing when astara was proposed and were ignored | 20:50 |
| mestery | So you can see how I might be a little ticked here | 20:50 |
| ttx | so three arguments against -- Jay's "code consuming OpenStack is not OpenStack", mark "moar integration", and lifeless "would it really be under our governance" | 20:50 |
| sridhar_ram | dhellmann: if you look at the patchsets we now have wider contributions coming from ALU/Nokia, 99cloud, NEC, etc | 20:50 |
| mestery | dhellmann: Me, russellb and armax all had those questions then | 20:50 |
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| dhellmann | sridhar_ram : sure, I'm looking at the overall picture | 20:50 |
| devananda | dhellmann: overlap between projects in the big tent is specifically not a reason to block projects ... | 20:50 |
| ttx | devananda: +1 | 20:50 |
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| dhellmann | devananda : "Where it makes sense, the project cooperates with existing projects rather than gratuitously competing or reinventing the wheel" | 20:51 |
| devananda | sdague: and the TC is also not supposed to pick winners based on who has the first REST API | 20:51 |
| ttx | devananda: also agree that the governance question is pretty critical though. If OpenNFV wants to call the shots in tacker, that should stay out | 20:51 |
| jaypipes | ttx: "*purpose-built* applications that glue together lots of OpenStack services are not OpenStack" <-- that is my opinion. there's a big difference. | 20:51 |
| devananda | ttx: completely agree on that | 20:51 |
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| devananda | it sounds like there are a lot of very important unanswered questions here, though | 20:51 |
| devananda | and we're all debating whether to ask them or not | 20:51 |
| mestery | jaypipes: I continue to believe your argument is the only one displayed so far giving me pause on my +1 | 20:51 |
| mestery | So thanks for that | 20:52 |
| mestery | It's a valid concern | 20:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | I absolutely don't see this as a competition to neutron's advanced services is .. which where Astara is operating IMO | 20:52 |
| jaypipes | again, I'm not trying to be a spoilsport. Just saying my peace/piece. | 20:52 |
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| dtroyer | honestly, I don't care about overlap, especially in the upper layers. It keeps groups on their toes | 20:52 |
| dtroyer | but how high up the app stack does OpenStack go? | 20:52 |
| ttx | sridhar_ram: I think that's a weak argument against Tacker. The two strong arguments against inclusion imho are Jay's and devananda's | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | I'm less concerned with overlap because teams think they can do better than I am refusal to collaborate at all. | 20:52 |
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| dhellmann | Hence my question about whether the contributors to Tacker are participating in other projects or otherwise being involved in the community. | 20:53 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: competition in theory addresses that one way or another | 20:53 |
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| * russellb back .... | 20:53 | |
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| ttx | i.e. the consumer question, and the ownership question | 20:53 |
| anteaya | russellb: congratulations on safe takeoff | 20:53 |
| sridhar_ram | ttx: sure.. what I see is many operators are stringing together is exact same solution over and over again, there is an interest to do it one in OpenSource and in OpenStack... | 20:53 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i think i probably agree with you at some level. i'd like to see what we could come up with for defining some upper bound on what would be openstack ... | 20:54 |
| jaypipes | russellb: we have renamed OpenStack to Delta GoGo Internet. you're welcome. | 20:54 |
| russellb | neat | 20:54 |
| dtroyer | sridhar_ram: we're not questioning the validity of the use cases, but whether it belongs here | 20:54 |
| russellb | jaypipes: sounds like i may argue it a little higher, but i think there's value in a more general statement on the matter | 20:54 |
| * sridhar_ram catching up on devananda's position | 20:54 | |
| ttx | sridhar_ram: could you explain how OpenStack and Tacker would be in a better situation if we accept Tacker in rather than just keep it under OpenStack infra ? | 20:55 |
| devananda | dhellmann: IMO, that boils down to governance. competition within a single governance framework (ie, openstack) is fine, as long as it's based in collaboration and cooperation | 20:55 |
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| jaypipes | russellb: yes, that's the eternal question we need to answer I guess. I've been defining it in terms of what sets off my intuition around whether the project pulls OpenStack too much in the direction of one particular industry or business segment. | 20:55 |
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| ttx | I think we should continue that discussion on the review. I'll summarize the discussion and what I see as the remaining key concerns | 20:55 |
| jaypipes | russellb: but it's certainly a grey area to be sure. | 20:55 |
| sridhar_ram | ttx: I know many folks are sitting in the sidelines in either pulling this in and contributing resource because it still has that "stackforge" label | 20:56 |
| russellb | jaypipes: agree | 20:56 |
| jaypipes | valid points on all sides. | 20:56 |
| thingee | sridhar_ram: from devananda "if the project is not / does not want to be part of openstackgovernance, that's a clear blocker IMO." | 20:56 |
| ttx | Still leaning towards yes, but depending on how those two concerns are clarified I may just switch to no | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | devananda : sure. I'm not getting much in the way of useful info about this team's cooperation track record | 20:56 |
| russellb | what's the tl;dr on remaining 2 concerns? | 20:56 |
| dougwig | sridhar_ram: needing governance to get investment has never been a good argument, IMO. | 20:56 |
| thingee | russellb: jay's point and following governance | 20:56 |
| russellb | ack | 20:56 |
| * jaypipes would also like to be up front and say that Mirantis has apparently joined some Open Source MANO initiative. This has nothing to do with my opinion and vote, here, I would like to piont out. | 20:57 | |
| devananda | jaypipes: will this pull all of openstack in some direction, or merely add the ability to service a particular segment of users? | 20:57 |
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| russellb | jaypipes: red hat may be joining the same thing, or some other thing, i can't keep track | 20:57 |
| russellb | there's a lot happening in this area | 20:57 |
| markmcclain | dougwig: it does have a significant impact regardless of how it should be | 20:57 |
| ttx | sridhar_ram: would you say that an accepted-in-OpenStack Tacker takes design orders more from OpenNFV or more from the OpenStack TC ? | 20:57 |
| sridhar_ram | ttx: devananda: we absolutely want to be under governance.. we just waited until now to get our project in decent shape, with more core reviewers, docs, functional tests, stc | 20:57 |
| mestery | 2 minutes left | 20:57 |
| anteaya | jaypipes russellb thanks for being forthcoming | 20:57 |
| mestery | This has been elightnening | 20:57 |
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| jaypipes | devananda: good question. I'm still working that answer out in my head. unfortunately, like I said, it's falling to my intuition. :( | 20:57 |
| ttx | sridhar_ram: (no answer needed now) | 20:58 |
| sridhar_ram | ttx: we will be bound by TC, our inputs always comes from Operators | 20:58 |
| devananda | sridhar_ram: and the corrolary - is / will your development team be involved with other openstack projects directly (as contributors), or merely consuming them? | 20:58 |
| ttx | We'll continue that on the review | 20:58 |
| sridhar_ram | OPNFV is just one way of getting requirements | 20:58 |
| devananda | jaypipes: fair 'nuf | 20:58 |
| mestery | I think we need to figure out where we're drawing hte line better, because with the Big Tent, I'm concerned we should ahve let Tacker in as it stands. | 20:58 |
| thingee | What is missing on the governance side with tacker? | 20:58 |
| jaypipes | #link https://www.mirantis.com/blog/open-source-mano-osm-to-work-on-nfv-orchestration/ | 20:58 |
| ttx | sridhar_ram: sorry it takes a long time to decide, but this is definitely an edge case | 20:58 |
| jaypipes | ^^ details on aforementioned thing. | 20:58 |
| ttx | we have to carefully consider it | 20:58 |
| ttx | So... let's continue on the review and this will be back next week | 20:59 |
| sridhar_ram | devananda: yes, our developers are already contributing to heat-translator and then integrating things into Tcker | 20:59 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i trust you to be wearing your upstream hat, but appreciate the openness :) | 20:59 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| dhellmann | sridhar_ram : good to hear | 20:59 |
| ttx | I posted the design summit split proposal to the ML Monday, the feedback has been mostly positive so far | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | russellb: jaypipes ++ | 20:59 |
| jaypipes | sridhar_ram: I don't have any doubts to Tacker's (and your personal) commitment to the "OpenStack Way" and the 4 Opens. | 20:59 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/087161.html | 20:59 |
| ttx | We should definitely have a session in Austin to discuss the details | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:59 |
| sridhar_ram | jaypipes: thanks :) | 20:59 |
| russellb | ttx: thanks for your work on that | 20:59 |
| ttx | I know management at some contributing companies will initially not like it, since they kinda liked abusing their devs all week for other duties, but the double-duty was what made the design summits less productive | 20:59 |
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| ttx | So you might need to relay and explain internally why the proposal is a good thing for OpenStack overall | 21:00 |
| mestery | nice work ttx | 21:00 |
| jaypipes | sridhar_ram: you are unfortunately caught between two existential combatants in my mind ;) | 21:00 |
| thingee | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/thread.html#87161 | 21:00 |
| thingee | design summit split ^ | 21:00 |
| annegent_ | oo existential combatants | 21:00 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:00 |
| russellb | jaypipes: ha | 21:00 |
| devananda | jaypipes: lol | 21:00 |
| sridhar_ram | jaypipes: :) | 21:00 |
| russellb | ttx: fwiw management here seemed to like it quite a bit | 21:00 |
| annegent_ | ttx: do you envision for cross project teams any difficulty getting space? Do you envision space limits? | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | russellb: ++ | 21:01 |
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| ttx | russellb: great! | 21:01 |
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| russellb | i sent it to some folks immediately, got positive reaction | 21:01 |
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| annegent_ | ttx: or fungi or jeblair might know, when you run the ATC badge invites is it from the projects.yaml list? | 21:01 |
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| ttx | annegent_: I haven't looked into logistics yet | 21:01 |
| fungi | annegent_: yes | 21:01 |
| ttx | annegent_: yes it is from the yaml | 21:01 |
| jaypipes | ttx: mixed reviews internally here, as to be expected. | 21:01 |
| ttx | jaypipes: cool, do your magic :) | 21:01 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i do really like the idea of taking the opportunity to make a scope statement. after letting the big tent ride for a while, seems like a nice next step | 21:02 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: work in progress :) | 21:02 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i don't expect that to get resolved quickly though | 21:02 |
| ttx | ok, time to close this | 21:02 |
| jaypipes | russellb: ++ | 21:02 |
| annegent_ | I'm also hesitant about the Aug/Mar timing but that's my American mom-isms jumping in. | 21:02 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone, good discussions all over | 21:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 23 21:02:34 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-23-20.00.html | 21:02 |
| russellb | bye! | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-23-20.00.txt | 21:02 |
| mestery | thanks ttx! | 21:02 |
| jaypipes | dang, that went fast. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-23-20.00.log.html | 21:02 |
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| thingee | reminder that the cross-project meeting has been skipped today http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/087351.html | 21:03 |
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