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| alexus | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jul 17 12:00:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alexus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alexus | Hello~ who is here today? | 12:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | hi | 12:00 |
| gmann | hi | 12:00 |
| bauwser | \o | 12:00 |
| Jeffrey4l | hi | 12:00 |
| alexus | hey everyone! | 12:01 |
| alexus | #topic status of liberty priority items | 12:01 |
| Jeffrey4l | alexus, alex_xu? | 12:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status of liberty priority items (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:01 | |
| alexus | Jeffrey4l: yes, it is me | 12:01 |
| Jeffrey4l | u got a new name | 12:01 |
| alexus | There is too much thing today. Most of thing is on good status | 12:01 |
| alexus | #link https://review.openstack.org/152569 | 12:02 |
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| alexus | Microversion client implement is going to right direction I think | 12:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | so my ask is, do let me know if anything is blocking you all, so I can get it unblocked at the midcycle (if possible) | 12:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | alexus: ah, good news, I am glad we are getting agreement there now | 12:02 |
| alexus | johnthetubaguy: cool, got it, will let you know | 12:03 |
| alexus | johnthetubaguy: yea, we just need focus on coding detail now | 12:03 |
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| alexus | appreciate everyone can review it | 12:03 |
| alexus | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193725/ | 12:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | alexus: yeah, possibly just a case of keeping this etherpad up to date: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 12:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am hoping that gets more attention now | 12:04 |
| alexus | johnthetubaguy: ok, no problem | 12:04 |
| bauwser | +1 | 12:04 |
| bauwser | I use this etherpad for knowing which reviews should be done | 12:04 |
| alexus | I should add a calendar reminder for updating it every week | 12:05 |
| bauwser | alexus: I can hassle you :p | 12:05 |
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| alexus | bauwser: cool, I should thanks :) | 12:06 |
| alexus | the previous link is remove v3 | 12:06 |
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| alexus | the first patch is ready, and the author want to get some review to know they are one the right direction before they are going to send out other patches | 12:07 |
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| alexus | basically it is good for me, but hope the team give some review. | 12:07 |
| bauwser | fatty !- | 12:08 |
| alexus | and I should update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking ! | 12:08 |
| bauwser | :( | 12:08 |
| alexus | bauwser: yea, not so easy to review althought just renaming | 12:08 |
| bauwser | alexus: yup, let's discuss that out, I have an idea for helping | 12:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: seems like we have a review of doom to look at soon: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193725/ | 12:09 |
| alexus | bauwser: cool, waiting for your idea | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | so thats a patch we could make sure we land next week | 12:09 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: oh, the move | 12:09 |
| sdague | yeh, is edleafe going to be in MN? | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah | 12:09 |
| sdague | honestly I'd rather just have a few of us sit around and just do that | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: unsure, I forget I am afraid, but yeah, thats what I am thinking | 12:09 |
| bauwser | alexus: my take is that we should leave the existing module and redirect it to the newer | 12:10 |
| sdague | alexus: I had a question on - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150687/ - I was expecting the hard code permissions moves to include a policy patch at the same time, and if not, to explain why | 12:10 |
| bauwser | alexus: it would prevent that big hairy change | 12:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauwser: big and scary will be fine if we get a bunch of us in the same room, just like the unit test move | 12:11 |
| bauwser | johnthetubaguy: the problem is that it's adding more than just a rename | 12:12 |
| sdague | bauwser: that's fine, we'll look it over together | 12:12 |
| sdague | but the current tree structure is confusing people | 12:12 |
| bauwser | sdague: not at midcycle - IRL, trying to get virtually | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:12 |
| alexus | sorry, I just reboot my compute, I can't type any word suddenly... | 12:12 |
| sdague | bauwser: sure, but we'll have enough eyes at midcycle to move something like that through | 12:13 |
| bauwser | sdague: I certainly appreciate the move, I just think it probably needs a soften approach | 12:13 |
| sdague | it's agreed direction | 12:13 |
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| bauwser | moving on ? :) | 12:14 |
| alexus | yea, I'm checking the word I missed | 12:14 |
| alexus | sdague: I'm not quite understand your question | 12:15 |
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| alexus | sdague: anyway I will check the patch detail after the meeting | 12:16 |
| alexus | #link https://review.openstack.org/202900 | 12:16 |
| alexus | I sent out the spec for remove extension | 12:16 |
| sdague | alexus: so, if we remove a hard coded permissions check from the db layer | 12:16 |
| alexus | sdague: yup | 12:16 |
| sdague | that was the default permissions that we wanted | 12:16 |
| alexus | sdague: yes | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: ed is registered, I just checked | 12:17 |
| sdague | so I expect those changes also include a policy.json change | 12:17 |
| sdague | or a comment about why they do not (it was already done previously) | 12:17 |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150687/ just removes a permissions check with no reference to either of those things | 12:17 |
| alexus | we need ensure whether there is any API entry for this db call | 12:18 |
| alexus | or maybe there elevated context in the code | 12:18 |
| sdague | sure, anyway, I -1ed it for now based on those grounds, but for these kinds of reviews it would be really good to explain why other changes aren't needed if they are not. Otherwise I get concerned that we're just openning up security holes. | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that extra context is really handy | 12:19 |
| alexus | sdague: ok, agree, the commit message should describe something | 12:19 |
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| sdague | alexus: as it was another intel person, I thought maybe good to highlight and you might be regularly talking with them as well | 12:21 |
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| sdague | anyway, we can move on from that | 12:21 |
| alexus | and I hope get some review for this https://review.openstack.org/188235 bug fix, it is waiting for a long time | 12:21 |
| alexus | sdague: yea, I will check with the author | 12:21 |
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| alexus | it is related to policy | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | alexus: great stuff for that priority etherpad | 12:22 |
| alexus | johnthetubaguy: yea, it's on the etherpad | 12:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alexus: yeah, I need to get more folks to read it! | 12:22 |
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| alexus | ok, that is all I have for the prority items | 12:23 |
| alexus | anyone have question? | 12:23 |
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| gmann | Need review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198622/ | 12:24 |
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| gmann | based on that we can move on removing vif extension from v2.1 list - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198934/ | 12:24 |
| alexus | yea, that is bug | 12:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I did raise that in the nova meeting, and I need to take a look myself | 12:25 |
| gmann | johnthetubaguy: Thanks | 12:25 |
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| alexus | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 12:25 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198622/ seems like it should be a fast approve, it's just completely a bug | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: its an API change though, it certainly skips the freeze | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, are we sure we want OS-EXT-VIF-NET in the bit we add to v2.1? | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess we want that so it says the same as v2.0 | 12:28 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: oh, so the patch is to just fix v2.1 to not list OS-EXT-VIF-NET as an extension | 12:28 |
| sdague | gmann: do you then intend to do a microversion bump to put it back in? | 12:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | the spec is the microverison bump to add it in, I think | 12:29 |
| alexus | johnthetubaguy: re-add that field by microversion | 12:29 |
| gmann | johnthetubaguy: sdague : yea, users want to move for v2.1 and for vif-net they can have microversion ready to provide that | 12:29 |
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| alexus | I guess johnthetubaguy talk about spec, sdague talk about the bug patch | 12:30 |
| gmann | sdague: we discussed of adding it directly but that will be API contract break s v2.1 released | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I read the spec upside down | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | the spec is doing what I expected | 12:30 |
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| gmann | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198622/ | 12:30 |
| alexus | at line 60 describe the bug pach to remove extension entry https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198622/5/specs/liberty/approved/add-vif-net-id-in-vif-list.rst | 12:30 |
| gmann | johnthetubaguy: yea | 12:30 |
| gmann | L60 is just information but will not be part of microversion impl | 12:31 |
| alexus | But I think we should merged https://review.openstack.org/198934 after spec approved, then everyone know the whole plan | 12:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | should the patch not point at the blueprint the spec is creating? | 12:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | I mean we could point the spec at the bug | 12:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, we can tidy the paper work up later | 12:33 |
| gmann | johnthetubaguy: ok, i will do that. that will be all info together | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann: cool, thank you | 12:33 |
| alexus | gmann: thanks | 12:33 |
| sdague | yeh, it probably should Depends-On the spec | 12:33 |
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| sdague | just to keep the process right and not land it prematurely | 12:34 |
| alexus | sdague: +1 | 12:34 |
| gmann | done | 12:35 |
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| alexus | #topic open | 12:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:35 | |
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| alexus | anymore open? | 12:35 |
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| Jeffrey4l | https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-novaclient/+bug/1325304 this bug. | 12:35 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1325304 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "hypervisors.staticstics().running_vms count includes shutdown vms" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Jeffrey Zhang (jeffrey4l) | 12:35 |
| sdague | alexus / gmann either of you going to be in MN next week? | 12:35 |
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| alexus | sdague: I won't go there | 12:36 |
| Jeffrey4l | I want't to know add a new field `total_vms` is a good directions? | 12:36 |
| gmann | sdague: I also would not be able to make | 12:36 |
| alexus | sdague: let us know if there are change happen at MN | 12:37 |
| gmann | alexus: +1 | 12:37 |
| sdague | Jeffrey4l: that seems like a broader nova question beyond the api. | 12:37 |
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| Jeffrey4l | ok. I am sorry. | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | Jeffrey4l: I think its worth a spec, but I recon that could work in a microversion | 12:38 |
| sdague | yeh, given that it will be an additional field added | 12:38 |
| alexus | looks like we can't change existed field's meaning | 12:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | Jeffrey4l: its probalby because in most deployments shutdown VMs are counted as running, because they still use resources (local storage, etc), and have the resources locked for that specific host | 12:38 |
| Jeffrey4l | johnthetubaguy, yep. I am working on it. Just want to know is that a right directions. | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | Jeffrey4l: it depends what you want to do with running vms really | 12:39 |
| bauwser | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 12:39 |
| bauwser | shelved instances too | 12:39 |
| * alexus ignore my word | 12:39 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | bauwser: actually shelved probably shouldn't be counted, long term, but yeah, they do mess that up | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | (because they shouldn't lock the resources, once offloaded) | 12:40 |
| bauwser | Jeffrey4l: from a Nova PoV, we count the total of existing instances, whether they are running or not | 12:40 |
| bauwser | Jeffrey4l: that's only when an instance is deleted that we consider it out of the resources scope | 12:40 |
| bauwser | but we're far off-topic :) | 12:40 |
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| Jeffrey4l | ok. Got it. we can continue the talk in the bp's bug. | 12:41 |
| Jeffrey4l | sorry for the off topic. | 12:41 |
| Jeffrey4l | let's move on. | 12:41 |
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| bauwser | Jeffrey4l: for sure, I'm tempted to consider it as invalid :/ | 12:41 |
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| bauwser | Jeffrey4l: but let's consider that in the LP bug | 12:41 |
| Jeffrey4l | ok\ | 12:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | Jeffrey4l: it would need a nova-spec to land that change, if that helps your thinking on that | 12:41 |
| bauwser | ++ | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | (because its an API change) | 12:42 |
| bauwser | and because it's far more important than just counting, it means what we consider a running instance | 12:42 |
| bauwser | oops | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | Jeffrey4l: just need to describe the use case behind why the existing count doesn't work for you, so we can understand the problem you have, and then we can help you fix that | 12:42 |
| bauwser | s/running/active | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | Jeffrey4l: its a bit hard to tell from the bug, the current behaviour is intectional | 12:43 |
| bauwser | moving on ? :) | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, a rename of running to active, would be a good thing in a microversion | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think we are all done | 12:43 |
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| Jeffrey4l | ok. I will add move in the LP bug. | 12:44 |
| gmann | last from me. need to ask reviews for sample tests merge patches | 12:44 |
| bauwser | johnthetubaguy: re: midcycle, saw your link | 12:44 |
| gmann | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:merge_sample_tests,n,z | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauwser: my link? | 12:44 |
| bauwser | johnthetubaguy: keep it up-to-date while you try to provide such remote connectivity | 12:44 |
| bauwser | johnthetubaguy: oh sorry, the hangout link | 12:44 |
| gmann | sdague: Thanks for reviewing, please review more. After those we will be able to remove v3 things from api-paste | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauwser: oh right, yeah, just going to talk in #openstack-nova about that, but lets not get off topic... | 12:44 |
| bauwser | alexus: gmann: see the prio etherpad, there is a way to get some traction from the midcycle - but that would be async :) | 12:45 |
| bauwser | johnthetubaguy: sure thing - diverting | 12:45 |
| alexus | bauwser: ok | 12:45 |
| alexus | so any question, then we close the meeting | 12:46 |
| alexus | 3... | 12:46 |
| gmann | bauwser: ok | 12:46 |
| alexus | 2.. | 12:46 |
| alexus | 1. | 12:46 |
| alexus | thanks all | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | alexus: thank you! | 12:46 |
| gmann | Thanks all | 12:46 |
| alexus | #endmeeting | 12:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jul 17 12:46:39 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:46 |
| alexus | johnthetubaguy: np | 12:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-07-17-12.00.html | 12:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-07-17-12.00.txt | 12:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-07-17-12.00.log.html | 12:46 |
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| ttx | knock knock.. is this on ? | 14:00 |
| zaneb | o/ | 14:00 |
| ttx | sdague, russellb: around? | 14:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 14:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting next-tags-wg | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jul 17 14:01:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: next-tags-wg)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'next_tags_wg' | 14:01 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/next-tags-wg | 14:01 |
| ttx | OK, so for this first meeting I'd like to discuss a bit on the long-term goals, and then on a few short-term targets | 14:02 |
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| sdague | sounds reasonable | 14:02 |
| ttx | anything you would like to discuss ? | 14:02 |
| ttx | Let's start with that and we can add more | 14:03 |
| ttx | #topic Long-term goals | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Long-term goals (Meeting topic: next-tags-wg)" | 14:03 | |
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| ttx | I guess the main objective is to cover things that were covered before by integration requirements / integrated release meanings | 14:03 |
| zaneb | +1 | 14:04 |
| russellb | ttx: o/ | 14:04 |
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| ttx | doesn't mean we should not also address nice-to-communicate things, but we should at least cover most of the things there | 14:04 |
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| ttx | I tried to list those two sets on the etherpad, to varying degrees of success | 14:04 |
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| ttx | As far as "facets of the integrated release" go, we are not that bad: | 14:05 |
| ttx | "Released together" and "managed release" is covered by release:* tags | 14:05 |
| zaneb | I think some of the requirements on the checklist were sufficiently woolly that it would be ok for us to eliminate them from contention as tags quite quickly | 14:05 |
| ttx | there was an expectation of co-gating... not sure we can qualify that | 14:05 |
| ttx | sdague: ideas on this one ? | 14:06 |
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| zaneb | imho that one is out of date | 14:06 |
| sdague | yeh, I don't think we need to bring forward everything, we can reevaluate what's useful in bigtent world | 14:06 |
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| russellb | hm ... we can certainly create "co-gating groups" and tag them ... but not sure that's useful anymore | 14:06 |
| ttx | agreed | 14:06 |
| zaneb | but sdague full_stack_testing idea might be an equivalent | 14:06 |
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| russellb | since the "single co-gate to rule the world" doesn't seem to be the thing anymore | 14:06 |
| sdague | ttx: I think co-gating is not really useful, that's why I proposed the full stack testing bit | 14:06 |
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| ttx | ack | 14:06 |
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| russellb | yeah full-stack testing is interesting | 14:06 |
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| ttx | "Supported by OpenStack horizontal efforts" -> it's pretty much up for each team to come up with their *:suported variant | 14:07 |
| sdague | zaneb: yeh, I tried to walk out the real meaning of what was wrapped up in gate, and tempest, and just say "we build a cloud with our component and test it for real on every commit" | 14:07 |
| russellb | testcoverage:crap | 14:07 |
| russellb | heh | 14:07 |
| ttx | starter kit we covered | 14:07 |
| zaneb | sdague: +1 | 14:07 |
| ttx | stability I have a few suggestions we'll talk abvout | 14:07 |
| ttx | maturity is a bit harder | 14:07 |
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| zaneb | yeah, I don't think maturity can be a tag | 14:08 |
| ttx | for that one I'd like to see what the ops team comes up with in their data | 14:08 |
| sdague | yeh, maturity seems too nebulous | 14:08 |
| ttx | any missing "meaning" of the integrated release you'd like to add to list ? | 14:08 |
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| ttx | if not we can skip to old graduation requirements | 14:09 |
| sdague | I assume the supported python thing is just going to be expressed by trove categorization in setup.cfg | 14:09 |
| ttx | which cover a few specific things | 14:09 |
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| ttx | Do we agree that "absence of scope duplication" is no longer applicable ? | 14:10 |
| zaneb | yes | 14:10 |
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| ttx | next two are covered in the suggestions | 14:10 |
| sdague | yep | 14:10 |
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| ttx | "diverse core reviewers team (more than 4 people)" | 14:10 |
| ttx | that one is interesting, since no team: tag has been proposing that at all | 14:11 |
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| ttx | good to keep in mind that it was there, I don't think that's a top prio though | 14:11 |
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| russellb | re: scope, our new project requirements mention it, and we've used it before when discussing applications, so i'm ok with how that covers my concerns | 14:11 |
| russellb | can't think of a tag there | 14:11 |
| russellb | (sorry i'm behind) | 14:11 |
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| russellb | team tags are relatively low hanging fruit since we can script most of them against stackalytics | 14:12 |
| ttx | "enforce a minimum of 2 +2s before accepting a change" -- is that a current project team requirement ? | 14:12 |
| sdague | honestly, I think russellb's diverse team covers the basic points there, though I do think diverse danger needs to expose somewhere, as we've had a lot of 90%+ one org projects lately | 14:12 |
| ttx | if not, is it something of value for our users ? | 14:12 |
| sdague | I think our users probably don't care | 14:13 |
| russellb | and i like to think of "2 +2s" as a guideline, not a rule anyway | 14:13 |
| russellb | plenty of cases rubber stamping things in by 1 person is fine | 14:13 |
| zaneb | ttx: that's _almost_ part of the 'are you one of us' test imho | 14:13 |
| sdague | that's cultural expectations and we enforce there instead | 14:13 |
| russellb | or cases where several +2s should be had | 14:13 |
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| russellb | culture handles it well enough, agree | 14:13 |
| ttx | the rest are QA/Doc metrics imho and we'll likely redefine them, no need to go through them one by one... | 14:13 |
| zaneb | (not disagreeing with russellb though, for the record) | 14:13 |
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| ttx | unless there is one you want to discuss... | 14:14 |
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| ttx | If not let's skip to short-term targets | 14:14 |
| zaneb | history of triaging bugs/user support is probably not something we need tags for | 14:14 |
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| zaneb | might be better suited to the ops effort | 14:15 |
| zaneb | whatever we're calling that | 14:15 |
| ttx | zaneb: yes, feels moere like a rating | 14:15 |
| zaneb | exactly | 14:15 |
| ttx | "you suck at bug triaging" | 14:15 |
| ttx | ok, next tags then | 14:15 |
| ttx | #topic Short-term targets | 14:15 |
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| ttx | One that was mentioned by several people are the integration tags, starting with devstack | 14:16 |
| ttx | sean / sdake proposed in_devstack and/or has_devstack_plugin | 14:16 |
| russellb | i can take on the team tags | 14:16 |
| ttx | I tend to be with zaneb, not sure the distinction is that valid | 14:16 |
| russellb | size, and "diversity danger" | 14:16 |
| sdake | sdague ttx you mean? | 14:16 |
| sdake | rather ttx do you mean sdague? | 14:17 |
| sdague | ttx: so the reason the distinction is valid, is that it actually is another thing the user would need to do | 14:17 |
| zaneb | it was sdague and stevebaker iirc | 14:17 |
| russellb | sdague: get the plugin you mean? | 14:17 |
| sdake | ya not me, ok thanks bye guys :) | 14:17 |
| zaneb | sdake: too many steves. as you were. | 14:17 |
| sdague | russellb: right, specify "enable_plugin" for that component | 14:17 |
| ttx | sdague: oh ETOOMANYSTEVES | 14:17 |
| ttx | sdake: ^ | 14:17 |
| sdake | roger | 14:17 |
| russellb | yeah, i guess so, not sure that's worth a tag | 14:17 |
| sdague | so my lean was to be specific about it | 14:17 |
| sdake | i'm off :) | 14:17 |
| russellb | more like a tiny section in the project's docs | 14:18 |
| russellb | but i don't have a strong opinion against it or anything | 14:18 |
| sdague | sure, we can always break it out later if people are confused by it | 14:18 |
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| sdague | call it devstack_support | 14:18 |
| sdague | or something | 14:18 |
| ttx | yeah, trying to see if that piece of info is significant enough to justify learning another word | 14:18 |
| russellb | "works with devstack" is good info though | 14:19 |
| ttx | would have been a use case for attribute but I killed those last week :) | 14:19 |
| zaneb | russellb++ | 14:19 |
| russellb | could also extend to "works with <other deployment thing in openstack> | 14:19 |
| sdague | sure, there are a bunch of projects that have random directories and copy instructions, those projects would not get that tag | 14:19 |
| russellb | "works with tripleo", "works with fuel", | 14:19 |
| ttx | so the model we come up with there is likely to be reused for horizon | 14:19 |
| sdague | because we really want everyone to do it in the documented way, so the user doesn't have to learn a massively manual thing | 14:19 |
| russellb | yeah devstack plugin is pretty easy to do | 14:20 |
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| sdague | yep | 14:20 |
| ttx | i.e. we wouldn't distinguish between "has horizon support" built-in / as-plugin | 14:20 |
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| ttx | I'm fine with that | 14:20 |
| russellb | does it matter if a thing is supported directly by (devstack|horizon|whatever) or the team itself provides the support? | 14:20 |
| zaneb | ttx: my understanding from david-lyle is that Horizon doesn't want there to be two kinds of plugins long-term anyway | 14:21 |
| russellb | angle being about who provides the thing | 14:21 |
| ttx | zaneb: agree in-tree / plugin / module is more of an implementation detail | 14:21 |
| sdague | ttx: it is, until we figure out who supports what | 14:22 |
| ttx | should we have a common prefix for all those "supported in", "works with", "integrated with" things ? | 14:22 |
| zaneb | my take on this is that I'd like all of the projects on that list to work toward eliminating that distinction over time, and separate tags just tends to reinforce that distinction | 14:22 |
| sdague | honestly, I don't feel too strongly either way, but it is worth figuring out if we are going to confuse folks | 14:22 |
| sdague | zaneb: eliminate what distinction? | 14:22 |
| russellb | i guess this does get into the idea of project relationships | 14:23 |
| zaneb | sdague: between in-tree and out-of-tree plugins | 14:23 |
| russellb | which is actually interesting info | 14:23 |
| sdague | zaneb: there is a distinction on support | 14:23 |
| sdague | the reason for creating an out of tree plugin interface is the fact that we can't scale if every horiz effort has to own all the concept for the tent, so they provide a contract instead | 14:23 |
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| zaneb | sdague: oh, yeah, I'm not saying everyone should go to in-tree for everything | 14:24 |
| sdague | magnum has a devstack plugin, I'm not going to support that | 14:24 |
| sdague | I will support the contract that lets them do that | 14:24 |
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| sdague | and the question is whether that's useful for our user community to get here | 14:25 |
| sdague | or if they figure that out via other means | 14:25 |
| zaneb | sdague: I'm more saying that if e.g. Nova's DevStack plugin was also out-of-tree, you can be sure that somebody will make it super-easy to pull in out-of-tree plugins :) | 14:25 |
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| zaneb | so treat all plugins equal | 14:26 |
| russellb | it's quite easy today | 14:26 |
| russellb | but sort of an aside :) | 14:26 |
| sdague | zaneb: yeh, look at the interface today, we didn't need that to make it easy :) | 14:26 |
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| zaneb | sdague: well, as you said before, it's an extra step for the user | 14:26 |
| zaneb | if everything is the same, there's no extra step | 14:27 |
| russellb | 1-liner in local.conf ... enable_plugin networking-ovn http://git.openstack.org/openstack/networking-ovn | 14:27 |
| sdague | it's 1 line of config | 14:27 |
| zaneb | that's just how you do it | 14:27 |
| ttx | right, the two things the distinction would communicate are: "who supports the integration" and "it may require an extra install step" | 14:27 |
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| zaneb | and I'm not just talking about devstack, I'd like this for all projects on that list | 14:27 |
| * russellb nods | 14:28 | |
| zaneb | but anyway, we're getting a bit off-topic | 14:28 |
| sdague | sure, though I guess we're wandering a bit | 14:28 |
| sdague | I guess the 'todo later' is probably an expectation on projects about what we'd expect out of them providing a plugin interface | 14:28 |
| russellb | we should ponder this a bit more ... not sure we've nailed an idea yet | 14:28 |
| ttx | I won't fight strongly either way. We could let the color decision to whoever goes and draft that one | 14:28 |
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| ttx | I still think we need a common prefix those | 14:29 |
| ttx | for those* | 14:29 |
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| ttx | but we can also bikeshed that common prefix name another day | 14:29 |
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| zaneb | yeah, I think it's a discussion for the TC | 14:29 |
| zaneb | +1 for a common prefix | 14:29 |
| zaneb | could we even propose all the tags in one review? | 14:29 |
| zaneb | that would save a *lot* of time :) | 14:29 |
| ttx | We could, but in practice the smaller the change, the faster it gets in | 14:30 |
| sdague | I think coordinating the rest of the english would be a bit hard | 14:30 |
| sdague | I'll write up the devstack plugin thing on the plane to MN on Monday | 14:30 |
| ttx | ok | 14:30 |
| sdague | and people can hate on terms until we find something that works for people | 14:30 |
| ttx | #action sdague to draft *:*devstack* tag(s) | 14:30 |
| zaneb | ok, so maybe start with a pilot and copy-paste once it has been wordsmithed to death? | 14:30 |
| ttx | Next category, team tags | 14:31 |
| ttx | We mentioned two in the brainstorming | 14:31 |
| ttx | One is team size, projects that are >60% developed by just one person (or 95% developed by just 2) are a bus factor risk | 14:31 |
| ttx | (your threshold may vary) | 14:32 |
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| zaneb | team:omnibus-proof | 14:32 |
| ttx | the other is the diversity-danger one, or Team monoculture | 14:32 |
| russellb | developed and/or reviewed by | 14:32 |
| ttx | So while I agree those are negatiuve tags, I think they provide value to our users as such | 14:32 |
| ttx | we are answering the "will the project be there tomorrow" question | 14:33 |
| zaneb | I'd prefer we have tags for positive things | 14:33 |
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| zaneb | e.g. <nothing>, collaboration, community | 14:33 |
| sdague | zaneb: sure, but I think the 100% one org thing is a challenge | 14:33 |
| zaneb | vs. monoculture, <nothing>, community | 14:33 |
| sdague | we're getting a lot of monoculture projects | 14:33 |
| ttx | zaneb: I feel like a "decent-diversity" tag is less of an answer than "danger-will-robinson-is-alone-coding" one | 14:33 |
| russellb | 100% one org thing doesn't sound like openstack | 14:33 |
| russellb | :/ | 14:33 |
| russellb | lack of diversity in a young project is often expected | 14:34 |
| sdague | well, I think the monoculture bit is bad enough we want to call people on it | 14:34 |
| ttx | russellb: right, and I don't mind using a negative tag to call that long-term | 14:34 |
| zaneb | sdague: totally agree there needs to be a separation between those first two levels | 14:34 |
| russellb | but in large established one, huge concern | 14:34 |
| sdague | russellb: yes, agree, so having the negative association with it is good | 14:34 |
| zaneb | ok, here's my reasoning... | 14:34 |
| sdague | some times you also need sticks, not just carrots | 14:34 |
| ttx | it's something to fix | 14:34 |
| russellb | i prefer carrots though :) | 14:34 |
| ttx | *and* a useful bit of info for users | 14:34 |
| sdague | russellb: agree, sticks are hard to make coleslaw out of | 14:35 |
| zaneb | it's hard to distinguish between 'doesn't have this tag' and 'nobody bothered to apply this tag' for users | 14:35 |
| russellb | lol | 14:35 |
| russellb | but let's get specific ... consider the fuel case vs. a project that just got launched by a few devs at <company> 2 weeks ago | 14:35 |
| ttx | russellb: I agree we shouldn't have sticks for the sake of it, but if they provide an answer to users questions, then they are good tags | 14:35 |
| russellb | one of those deserves to be called out, the other maybe not | 14:35 |
| zaneb | if there's no incentive for the team itself to come to the TC and ask for the tag to be applied, it could slip through the cracks | 14:35 |
| ttx | russellb: the other needs to know it needs to work on it though | 14:36 |
| zaneb | i.e. requires vigilance on the part of the TC | 14:36 |
| russellb | ttx: true | 14:36 |
| sdague | zaneb: stuff like this are pretty automatic though | 14:36 |
| sdague | russellb already has a tool for the diverse team tag | 14:36 |
| zaneb | positive tags offload the vigilance onto the teams that benefit | 14:36 |
| ttx | zaneb: but I think an absent tag is less of an incentive than the presence of a negative one | 14:36 |
| sdague | I also think it's fine that the TC has to be a bit vigilent in keeping an eye that projects are living up to what they said | 14:37 |
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| zaneb | sdague: fair | 14:37 |
| zaneb | another option would be to just change the way we display them | 14:37 |
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| ttx | I think tags should convey meaning, not absence of tags. Here we care if a team is diverse, or if it's a monoculture. We don't care if it's "moderately diverse" | 14:38 |
| zaneb | i.e. no team tag -> big 'monoculture' banner | 14:38 |
| ttx | so we do a diverse and monoculture tag | 14:38 |
| ttx | not a "diverse" and "almost diverse" one | 14:38 |
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| ttx | tags are affirmations. Trying to use combinations (AND / NOT / OR) wasn't a great success on the release:tags | 14:39 |
| zaneb | "diverse" and "not-monoculture"? ;) | 14:39 |
| zaneb | I'm relaxed, I don't think this is a big deal | 14:39 |
| zaneb | just wanted to discuss it | 14:39 |
| ttx | we had to refactor them to be clearer affirmations | 14:39 |
| sdague | I feel on the team thing it's important enough to call it out as a bad thing, we really want all projects to end up diverse for long term health of our community. | 14:39 |
| ttx | russellb: I take it you will work on those ? | 14:40 |
| russellb | yep | 14:40 |
| ttx | (small-team and monocultural-team) | 14:40 |
| russellb | i'll start with team size, i think that's less controversial | 14:40 |
| ttx | OK, so you should draft those and will re-debate | 14:41 |
| ttx | we'll | 14:41 |
| russellb | and then the anti-diversity one | 14:41 |
| zaneb | sdague: totally agree we should call it out somehow | 14:41 |
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| russellb | yep | 14:41 |
| ttx | #action russellb to draft small-team and monocultural-team tags | 14:41 |
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| ttx | Next category is a bit of a refactor | 14:41 |
| ttx | It's things that answer expectations | 14:42 |
| ttx | so timeline for deprecation of features / APIs | 14:42 |
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| russellb | good stuff | 14:42 |
| ttx | forward-compatible config files | 14:42 |
| ttx | rolling upgrades | 14:42 |
| russellb | important technical bars we want projects to explicitly ACK that they meet | 14:42 |
| ttx | right | 14:43 |
| ttx | those are things projects opt to do | 14:43 |
| zaneb | defining 'support' for rolling upgrades could be tricky? | 14:43 |
| ttx | contracts that they sign | 14:43 |
| russellb | zaneb: yep :) | 14:43 |
| ttx | obligations that they put onto themselves | 14:43 |
| ttx | so yeah, rolling upgrades is a slightly different duck there | 14:43 |
| sdague | zaneb: yeh, so I think that for something like that, a team says they do it, and we expect them to have a prominent document describing what that means | 14:44 |
| russellb | basically it gets into what kind of downtime is required for upgrades] | 14:44 |
| zaneb | so we're saying that individual project teams will be responsible for assigning these tags to themselves (+1 btw) | 14:44 |
| zaneb | ? | 14:44 |
| russellb | zaneb: +1, with a sanity check | 14:44 |
| russellb | hopefully with a pointer to a doc that explains it | 14:44 |
| russellb | and we read it over and say "yep, seems sane" | 14:44 |
| zaneb | that sounds perfect to me | 14:44 |
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| ttx | I think those will be the most useful things | 14:44 |
| sdague | russellb: I think pointer to doc is required for stuff like this, and should be part of what is in the tag description document | 14:45 |
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| russellb | sdague: ++ | 14:45 |
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| ttx | currently, good luck to tell what's the deprecation policy is for project Y | 14:45 |
| sdague | stuff like this is going to take time to get right on the tag proposal, it was the kind of stuff that I want to see, but was punting on :) | 14:45 |
| ttx | right, I think we'll do them one by one. I want to work on the deprecation policies, it's long overdue | 14:45 |
| russellb | yep, one at a time ... we'll build up a nice set over time | 14:45 |
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| ttx | if someone wants to work in parallel on one of the others I'm cool with that | 14:46 |
| russellb | ttx: yeah, you had a nice write-up on API deprecation at one point that would be a good basis | 14:46 |
| russellb | in a thread a long time ago .. | 14:46 |
| russellb | about keystone v3 iirc | 14:46 |
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| ttx | yeah, that one would likely be the middle policy | 14:46 |
| ttx | (between "never ever" and "f*ck you") | 14:47 |
| russellb | lol | 14:47 |
| russellb | "reasonable middle ground" | 14:47 |
| ttx | #action ttx to draft Deprecation policy contract tag | 14:48 |
| zaneb | I can take the no-config-change one. that sounds simple enough | 14:48 |
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| russellb | sounds good :) | 14:48 |
| ttx | zaneb: ideally it should describe how to do it right | 14:48 |
| ttx | so that people don't get to guess :) | 14:49 |
| ttx | OK, last but not least | 14:49 |
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| ttx | QA tags | 14:49 |
| ttx | I'll let sdague detail fullstacktesting | 14:49 |
| zaneb | I shall troll the ML for sdague's wisdom on that subject :) | 14:49 |
| sdague | zaneb: heh | 14:49 |
| zaneb | er, trawl | 14:49 |
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| ttx | My main question is whether we should bundle them or separate them | 14:50 |
| sdague | ttx: bundle which? | 14:50 |
| russellb | tag-per-testing-type vs. "well-tested" ? | 14:50 |
| ttx | i.e. qa:awesome or a bunch of qa:upgrade-tested, qa:unit-tested | 14:50 |
| ttx | right | 14:50 |
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| sdague | qa:awesome runs us into the subjective space we were trying to avoid, right? | 14:50 |
| ttx | i.e. you could either describe a set of constraints or have a tag for each | 14:51 |
| sdague | honestly, upgrade-testing is only done by about 25% of our projects | 14:51 |
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| russellb | qa:objective-gold-star | 14:51 |
| sdague | so I think being a separate tag is good | 14:51 |
| ttx | sdague: I don't think qa:awesome is more subjective | 14:51 |
| zaneb | qa:upgrade-tested seems like a useful, objective tag | 14:51 |
| sdague | because, honestly, some projects might not feel they need it | 14:51 |
| sdague | their community is young, and people are fine without it | 14:52 |
| sdague | full-stack-testing, same thing | 14:52 |
| ttx | if QA:A means your QA does A and QA:B means your QA does B... qa:awesome would just mean your QA does A and B | 14:52 |
| sdague | it could | 14:52 |
| zaneb | sdague: and that's ok, as long as it is explicit to users | 14:52 |
| sdague | but tags are cheap, right? | 14:52 |
| ttx | i.e. you would describe what is needed to get the QA:awesome label | 14:52 |
| sdague | zaneb: right, exactly | 14:52 |
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| ttx | sdague: sure. the question is more, what user question does it answer ? | 14:53 |
| sdague | I think that was the biggest issue on the old integration requirements and the angst we saw | 14:53 |
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| sdague | because the requirements were one size fits all, but the project landscape is diverse | 14:53 |
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| ttx | sdague: ok, if you think there is no such thing as an overall "QA" state no point in bundling them | 14:53 |
| sdague | ttx: it answers "can I expect a smooth upgrade without manual intervention" | 14:54 |
| zaneb | I agree (I think) with sdague, create the individual tags and users can decide for themselves whether that is awesome or not | 14:54 |
| ttx | (i.e. we are not answering "does this project have good QA". We answer more specific questions | 14:54 |
| sdague | honestly, if people want to bundle later, I think that's fine, but lets start with specifics | 14:55 |
| ttx | sdague: ok, you had me at "some projects might not feel they need it" | 14:55 |
| ttx | means you can't define QA in one dimension | 14:55 |
| sdague | yeh | 14:56 |
| ttx | Do you plan to draft one of those ? | 14:56 |
| sdague | not anytime soon | 14:56 |
| ttx | ok, so up for grabs | 14:56 |
| ttx | We already have at least one each on our plates | 14:56 |
| sdague | yes, happy to review anyone that wants to run with it | 14:56 |
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| sdague | https://github.com/openstack-dev/grenade/blob/master/README.rst#theory-of-upgrade is some reasonable starter points for it | 14:57 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 14:57 |
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| russellb | ttx: thanks for organizing ttx :) | 14:57 |
| sdague | so, my only open question, how do we get more folks contributing here :) | 14:57 |
| ttx | I used to want "theme:" tags so that people using a project navigation website would find Manila once they found Cinder | 14:58 |
| sdague | because it's currently tc members, + zaneb (who is in most tc meetings anyway), and I was hoping we'd fan out more | 14:58 |
| russellb | hopefully the more work we do, the more apparent the value becomes, and the more people that will want to push forward | 14:58 |
| ttx | but now I think that info should come from another source and be exposed on the same website | 14:58 |
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| zaneb | sdague: I think we had one more volunteer who couldn't make it this week | 14:58 |
| sdague | zaneb: ok | 14:58 |
| sdague | ttx: so, it's probably worth putting together a backlog of "things we'd find useful, no one working on them" | 14:59 |
| sdague | so that if someone wanted to contribute, they'd have a pile to pick from | 14:59 |
| jokke_ | sdague: honestly I have been just reading through and just trying to catch up with the intentions | 14:59 |
| zaneb | good idea | 14:59 |
| zaneb | I guess the 'Next tags' list in the etherpad is that for now | 14:59 |
| ttx | Maybe build on top of the "next tags" section of the etherpad ? | 14:59 |
| sdague | yeh, with any relevant details | 14:59 |
| ttx | maybe we can add a couple more | 15:00 |
| sdague | ML posts, links to stuff that would be useful to define that thing, etc | 15:00 |
| sdague | because if it's just a name, it will be too opaque | 15:00 |
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| ttx | OK, let's build from that | 15:01 |
| jokke_ | sdague: also "because it's currently tc members, + zaneb (who is in most tc meetings anyway)" might make it slightly intimidating for some to step out ;) | 15:01 |
| ttx | Time is out | 15:01 |
| sdague | thanks ttx et al | 15:01 |
| sdague | jokke_: ++ | 15:01 |
| zaneb | thanks all, this has been productive I think | 15:02 |
| ttx | I should post something about that meeting, early next week | 15:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jul 17 15:02:27 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/next_tags_wg/2015/next_tags_wg.2015-07-17-14.01.html | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/next_tags_wg/2015/next_tags_wg.2015-07-17-14.01.txt | 15:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/next_tags_wg/2015/next_tags_wg.2015-07-17-14.01.log.html | 15:02 |
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| schwicke | #startmeeting hierarchical_multitenancy | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jul 17 16:01:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is schwicke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:01 | |
| rodrigods | o/ | 16:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hierarchical_multitenancy' | 16:01 |
| raildo1 | o/ | 16:01 |
| schwicke | Hi, all | 16:01 |
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| ericksonsantos | \o | 16:01 |
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| ericksonsantos | schwicke, hi :) | 16:01 |
| vilobhmm | hello all | 16:02 |
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| schwicke | Raildo: thanks for running the meeting last Friday | 16:02 |
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| raildo1 | schwicke: np :) | 16:02 |
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| schwicke | #topic random coordination stuff | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "random coordination stuff (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:03 | |
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| schwicke | vilobhmm: I have just sent you an invitation via skype | 16:03 |
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| schwicke | did you receive it ? I'd like to add you to the group chat | 16:04 |
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| schwicke | hope I got it right | 16:04 |
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| vilobhmm | I haven't | 16:04 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, what is your skype id? | 16:04 |
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| vilobhmm | what id schwicke did you sent it to | 16:05 |
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| schwicke | sent it to vilobh | 16:05 |
| schwicke | not you? | 16:05 |
| vilobhmm | meshramvilobh | 16:05 |
| vilobhmm | no schwicke | 16:05 |
| vilobhmm | its "meshramvilobh" | 16:06 |
| vilobhmm | please try again | 16:06 |
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| schwicke | just did | 16:06 |
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| schwicke | did you get it this time ? | 16:07 |
| vilobhmm | yes | 16:07 |
| vilobhmm | accepted :) thanks | 16:07 |
| schwicke | ok, I just added you. So that's done :) | 16:08 |
| vilobhmm | yes | 16:08 |
| schwicke | On the same organisational topic: Sajeesh is sorry he cannot attend today. It is the first birthday of his sun. | 16:09 |
| vilobhmm | oh okay | 16:09 |
| ericksonsantos | np | 16:09 |
| vilobhmm | let me start with cinder update then | 16:09 |
| rodrigods | schwicke, np at all | 16:09 |
| schwicke | son I mean | 16:09 |
| raildo_m | it's a good reason :) | 16:09 |
| schwicke | yes, indeed :) | 16:09 |
| schwicke | So let's try without him | 16:09 |
| vilobhmm | sure | 16:10 |
| schwicke | As far as I see beyond this meeting we have only one opportunity before the code freeze | 16:10 |
| schwicke | which is next friday, right ? | 16:10 |
| rodrigods | yes | 16:10 |
| raildo_m | yes | 16:10 |
| vilobhmm | for nova the code free is july 30th | 16:10 |
| rodrigods | we need to get things moving forward | 16:10 |
| schwicke | I'll be on holiday myself from Sunday on so unlikely that I will be able to share the meeting on Friday | 16:10 |
| schwicke | There should be a meeting nevertheless. | 16:11 |
| raildo_m | ++ | 16:11 |
| vilobhmm | raildo_m : do we have a common websit for openstack which shares this details for deadline for various projects | 16:11 |
| schwicke | Yes. We need to avoid the code freeze exception exercise this time | 16:11 |
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| raildo_m | vilobhmm: I only know that: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 16:12 |
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| vilobhmm | alrite | 16:13 |
| vilobhmm | so from cinder side ericsonsantos and myself we tried to move https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143645/ forward | 16:13 |
| vilobhmm | by reviewing it | 16:13 |
| schwicke | #topic review of action items | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review of action items (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:13 | |
| vilobhmm | which in last meeting we thought would be beneficial for cinder nested quota | 16:13 |
| vilobhmm | will continue doing that | 16:14 |
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| vilobhmm | apart from that someone from us need to talk to keystone folks | 16:14 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:14 |
| ericksonsantos | what is missing in this patch in order to merge is test the keystoneclient instantiation | 16:14 |
| vilobhmm | ericksonsantos : yes…if we can help here it will be nice | 16:15 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, sure | 16:15 |
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| vilobhmm | someone from us need to talk to keystone folks as we discussed in last meeting | 16:15 |
| vilobhmm | as interaction with keystone is something common for cinder/nova | 16:16 |
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| vilobhmm | and hence don't want that to be a blocker moving ahead | 16:16 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, I have found an existing bug which may impact on nested quota driver | 16:16 |
| vilobhmm | as the policy.json changes that will be done in cinder and nova will depend on the logic exposed by keystone | 16:16 |
| ericksonsantos | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139610/ | 16:16 |
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| raildo_m | vilobhmm: due the deadline, I think that we need to follow the current approach... | 16:17 |
| ericksonsantos | when doing a cinder quota-defults <tenant_id>, this tenant_id is being ignored by cinder | 16:17 |
| raildo_m | vilobhmm: liberty-2 is really closer to try change something in the keystone side now... | 16:18 |
| vilobhmm | raildo_m : ok | 16:18 |
| vilobhmm | so what do you propose raildo_m | 16:18 |
| schwicke | maybe comment on this patch ? | 16:18 |
| ericksonsantos | schwicke, will do | 16:19 |
| vilobhmm | ericksonsantos : thanks…will check it out! | 16:19 |
| schwicke | #action erickonsantos will comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139610/ | 16:19 |
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| raildo_m | I think that we can keep following this approach, that sajeesh are doing here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182522/ | 16:19 |
| raildo_m | vilobhmm: ^ | 16:19 |
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| vilobhmm | ok but if such role or user are not created in keystone will it still work ? | 16:20 |
| vilobhmm | raildo_m : ^^ | 16:20 |
| ericksonsantos | I think it will work fine if we just let policy.json as it is now | 16:21 |
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| raildo_m | vilobhmm: unfortunately, we need to handle with this problem :( | 16:21 |
| vilobhmm | schwicke, all : sorry going in lots of details since this is something important and we need to get this resolved | 16:21 |
| raildo_m | vilobhmm: writing in the docs, os something like that | 16:22 |
| schwicke | that's ok | 16:22 |
| vilobhmm | raildo_m, ericksonsantos : ok | 16:22 |
| schwicke | so what is the conclusion? | 16:23 |
| vilobhmm | then for liberty-2 lets keep it the way https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182522/ for both cinder/nova respectively and have some DocImpact section updated ….going ahead we can start the conversation with keystone folks | 16:23 |
| vilobhmm | schwicke : ^^ | 16:23 |
| raildo_m | vilobhmm: ++ | 16:23 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:23 |
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| schwicke | #agreed for liberty-2 lets keep it the way https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182522/ for both cinder/nova respectively and have some DocImpact section updated ….going ahead we can start the conversation with keystone folk | 16:24 |
| vilobhmm | +1 | 16:24 |
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| schwicke | so who is going to contact the keyston folks ? | 16:24 |
| schwicke | should be done asap as well | 16:24 |
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| ericksonsantos | schwicke, I'm not getting the point, what do we want from them? | 16:25 |
| raildo_m | keystone folks are in the keystone midcycle today... I think that I can contact us on monday | 16:25 |
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| vilobhmm | raildo_m : sure… | 16:27 |
| ericksonsantos | in the policy.json, I think if we have a rule like: role:admin and project_id:%(project_id)s" | 16:27 |
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| ericksonsantos | it will work, right? | 16:28 |
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| schwicke | raildo_m: what are the basic questions we need to get answered by the keystone folks ? | 16:29 |
| schwicke | #action Raildo will contact the keystone folks and report in the skype group chat about the outcome | 16:30 |
| raildo_m | schwicke: I think that the main question is if we can use the "nova service role" to get the subprojects | 16:30 |
| schwicke | :) | 16:30 |
| schwicke | Ah | 16:30 |
| raildo_m | if we can do this, we don't need new roles in the nova/cinder side | 16:30 |
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| ericksonsantos | raildo_m, hmm.. I see | 16:31 |
| vilobhmm | +1 | 16:31 |
| schwicke | just wonder if there are any security related issues if we do that | 16:31 |
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| schwicke | maybe you can discuss with them if they can see any issues with that | 16:32 |
| raildo_m | ok | 16:32 |
| ericksonsantos | schwicke, ++ | 16:32 |
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| vilobhmm | yes…I guess we can find many new things once we start discussing with keystone folks | 16:33 |
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| vilobhmm | sure | 16:33 |
| vilobhmm | lets move on … | 16:33 |
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| schwicke | yes. | 16:33 |
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| schwicke | we had: vilobhmm and ericksonsantos will make sure this patch | 16:34 |
| schwicke | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143645/ proceeds and gets merged | 16:34 |
| schwicke | its not yet merged as far as I can see | 16:34 |
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| vilobhmm | +1 | 16:34 |
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| vilobhmm | for cinder nested quota driver changes (final changes as i have 2 patches merged already) should be done by next week…this week was caught up with unit test and some work internally | 16:34 |
| ericksonsantos | no, it's not. This patch needs at least one more test. | 16:34 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:35 |
| schwicke | let's review next week | 16:35 |
| vilobhmm | alrite | 16:35 |
| schwicke | #action vilobhmm and ericksonsantos will make sure this patch | 16:36 |
| schwicke | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143645/ proceeds and gets merged | 16:36 |
| vilobhmm | sure | 16:36 |
| vilobhmm | will do | 16:36 |
| schwicke | we had: raildo wiil keep working to fix the #link | 16:36 |
| schwicke | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182140/ | 16:36 |
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| rodrigods | this is a tricky one | 16:36 |
| rodrigods | I'm debugging this to check what is the actual difference from the keypair and security group APIs | 16:37 |
| rodrigods | that is making the policy enforcement to be done in the project_id of the context | 16:37 |
| rodrigods | not on the project_id of the URL | 16:37 |
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| raildo_m | ++ | 16:38 |
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| raildo_m | I answered the last sajeesh email with the two possibly solutions for this | 16:39 |
| schwicke | he's very much in favor of a different solution | 16:40 |
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| rodrigods | the issue of his solution | 16:40 |
| rodrigods | is that each nova API call would trigger a keystone API call | 16:40 |
| ericksonsantos | I think we don't need to remove that checking | 16:40 |
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| rodrigods | and we also would require that the user has the role in keystone to perform a get_project() | 16:41 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, we have the same checking on the cinder side | 16:41 |
| rodrigods | what can not be the case | 16:41 |
| schwicke | the second solution is the one that Sajeesh started to implement, right ? | 16:42 |
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| vilobhmm | ericksonsantos : I am not sure this time | 16:43 |
| schwicke | the user needs to have the right to do the get_project on which of the projects ? On the parent ? | 16:43 |
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| rodrigods | in the target project | 16:43 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/cinder/api/openstack/wsgi.py#L1003-L1007 | 16:44 |
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| schwicke | in which situation would the user not have the rights on the target project ? | 16:45 |
| rodrigods | schwicke, it is not common | 16:46 |
| rodrigods | but can happen | 16:46 |
| vilobhmm | usually parent should have the right to get/update the target project ; target being the child project | 16:46 |
| schwicke | needs careful thinking | 16:46 |
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| vilobhmm | schwikce : ^^ | 16:46 |
| schwicke | stupid question : what is the problem with the other solution ? | 16:46 |
| rodrigods | if in keystone's policy file we have that the Member role is authorized to perform get_project() | 16:46 |
| rodrigods | and in nova the user updating the quota has the _member_ role | 16:47 |
| rodrigods | it is a possible situation | 16:47 |
| schwicke | yes | 16:47 |
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| schwicke | Sajeesh said in the group chat that he'd upload the code on Sunday when he's back in Mumbai | 16:49 |
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| janonymous_ | o/ | 16:50 |
| schwicke | I suggest we wait for what he has done and continue to evaluate the solution proposed by rodrigods | 16:50 |
| schwicke | is that an option ? | 16:50 |
| rodrigods | will write an email explaining my solution | 16:50 |
| rodrigods | actually, abrito's solution | 16:50 |
| vilobhmm | sure | 16:50 |
| rodrigods | see if you all agree | 16:50 |
| schwicke | ah, sorry | 16:50 |
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| vilobhmm | rodrigods : If you can document both the approches and the problem they will solve with an example as we dicsused here | 16:51 |
| rodrigods | vilobhmm, absolutely | 16:51 |
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| vilobhmm | we can discuss and have a conclusion over email by monday | 16:51 |
| vilobhmm | or if needed get on a skype call | 16:51 |
| rodrigods | ++ | 16:52 |
| vilobhmm | thanks | 16:52 |
| schwicke | #action review Sajeeshs code for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182140/ and continue to evaluate alternative solution by Abrito | 16:52 |
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| schwicke | good idea | 16:52 |
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| schwicke | #action document and discuss implications of both solution by Monday | 16:53 |
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| schwicke | Sajeesh asked me to action item him | 16:53 |
| schwicke | #action Rectifying the context checking of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182140. | 16:53 |
| schwicke | that's for Sajeesh :) | 16:54 |
| schwicke | he asks for help on implementing more test cases | 16:55 |
| schwicke | I wonder if there are some synergies between nova and cinder, something that can be re-used ? | 16:55 |
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| schwicke | #action (all) Adding more test cases for nested quota. | 16:55 |
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| schwicke | are there any free resources to help on this ? | 16:56 |
| schwicke | time is running out | 16:56 |
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| rodrigods | I think ericksonsantos is writing tests for Cinder | 16:57 |
| ericksonsantos | schwicke, I think the steps in order to get it done are almost the same. So, sure, code can be re-used. | 16:57 |
| rodrigods | some of them can be reused | 16:57 |
| rodrigods | but let's not create too much tests | 16:57 |
| vilobhmm | schwicke : agree with ericsonsantos | 16:57 |
| rodrigods | repeating the same thing | 16:57 |
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| rodrigods | in HMT in Keystone we had just a few tests that covered all situations | 16:58 |
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| vilobhmm | lets just focus on basic get/update/delete use cases | 16:58 |
| ericksonsantos | rodrigods, sure | 16:58 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:58 |
| vilobhmm | sure | 16:58 |
| rodrigods | ++ | 16:58 |
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| schwicke | #agreed focus on the basic get/update/delete use cases for tests | 16:58 |
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| schwicke | still, it should be review what is missing for nova and already there for cinder and then copy and paste if needed | 16:59 |
| rodrigods | ++ | 16:59 |
| rodrigods | and vice versa | 16:59 |
| schwicke | can discuss this over skype | 16:59 |
| raildo_m | ++ | 16:59 |
| schwicke | exactly | 16:59 |
| schwicke | #action (all) import and exchange missing tests for cinder and nova | 17:00 |
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| schwicke | the last thing are the still failing tests after monkey patching | 17:00 |
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| vilobhmm | and jump on to all the reviews posted by our team irrespective of nova or cinder :) | 17:00 |
| schwicke | #action sajeesh will check the 3 still failing tests after monkey patching | 17:00 |
| schwicke | let's follow up on skype and/or email | 17:01 |
| schwicke | we have to leave the room | 17:01 |
| vilobhmm | alrite | 17:01 |
| vilobhmm | sure | 17:01 |
| rodrigods | yep | 17:01 |
| ericksonsantos | sure | 17:01 |
| rodrigods | bye guys | 17:01 |
| rodrigods | p/ | 17:01 |
| ericksonsantos | see you | 17:01 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 17:01 |
| ericksonsantos | :) | 17:01 |
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| raildo_m | bye | 17:01 |
| schwicke | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| vilobhmm | thanks all | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jul 17 17:01:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2015/hierarchical_multitenancy.2015-07-17-16.01.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2015/hierarchical_multitenancy.2015-07-17-16.01.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2015/hierarchical_multitenancy.2015-07-17-16.01.log.html | 17:01 |
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| schwicke | one last thing: raildo could you run the meeting next friday ? | 17:01 |
| geoffarnold | #startmeeting mercadorproject | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jul 17 17:01:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is geoffarnold. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: mercadorproject)" | 17:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'mercadorproject' | 17:01 |
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| shaleh | good day all | 17:02 |
| geoffarnold | Rolle call? | 17:02 |
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| * shaleh waves | 17:02 | |
| geoffarnold | Rolle? Where did THAT spelling correction come from? | 17:02 |
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| geoffarnold | gyee and the other Keystone cores are getting food | 17:03 |
| shaleh | do we have an agenda today? | 17:03 |
| geoffarnold | We're at the Keystone midcycle; we're on a lunch break until 2PM EDT | 17:03 |
| geoffarnold | Review some of the findings from the Keystone midcycle | 17:04 |
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| janonymous_ | o/ | 17:04 |
| shaleh | sounds good | 17:04 |
| geoffarnold | #topic Keystone midcycle fallout | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone midcycle fallout (Meeting topic: mercadorproject)" | 17:04 | |
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| geoffarnold | Biggest issue is that there are no immediate plans to address domain name uniqueness | 17:05 |
| shaleh | ugh | 17:05 |
| geoffarnold | So either subscribers will need to limit subdomain name choices, or we add some business logic on top (name mangling) | 17:06 |
| shaleh | well, we can limp along and bring a stronger argument for why it is needed. Right? Because mercador is sure to expose more issues. | 17:06 |
| geoffarnold | Agreed. | 17:06 |
| shaleh | Nothing like ugly names and bad UX to bring change :-) | 17:07 |
| geoffarnold | Everybody recognizes that 40 years of hierarchical namespaces has set expectations | 17:07 |
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| geoffarnold | and we're violating Principle of Least Surprise... | 17:07 |
| geoffarnold | but c'est la vie | 17:07 |
| geoffarnold | Wait for M to get a decent model in place | 17:07 |
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| shaleh | we can code as if it was right yes? It just pushes the issue on to the user. | 17:08 |
| geoffarnold | Pretty much, yes | 17:08 |
| geoffarnold | The second issue... | 17:08 |
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| geoffarnold | is that while K2K will keep the IdP in the subscriber (where it belongs), the policy will stay in the publisher's Keystone | 17:09 |
| geoffarnold | So if a reseller decides to create a role that provides a unique combination of rights, | 17:10 |
| geoffarnold | it's not easy to push it down | 17:10 |
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| geoffarnold | Today, that's not too bad, because nobody uses aggressive RBAC | 17:10 |
| shaleh | but again, we will expose a few pain points | 17:11 |
| geoffarnold | But based on discussions here on wednesday, we're going to try and encourage much more fine-grained RBAC | 17:11 |
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| geoffarnold | Yes, Mercador will drive requirements based on what breaks for us | 17:11 |
| shaleh | for POC level and early testing we should be OK. Much further and it gets much more painful | 17:11 |
| geoffarnold | Agreed | 17:11 |
| geoffarnold | One of the other topics here.... | 17:12 |
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| geoffarnold | ... is testing of capabilities that require multiple clouds to do the functional tests | 17:12 |
| geoffarnold | We should be able to leverage what Keystone K2K is spinning up | 17:13 |
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| geoffarnold | Overall it's been a good midcycle | 17:13 |
| shaleh | good to hear | 17:13 |
| geoffarnold | gyee and I will do some whiteboarding - delete that, chalk-boarding - later | 17:14 |
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| shaleh | remember pictures please | 17:15 |
| shaleh | try to write a little bigger than you think you should | 17:15 |
| geoffarnold | I've added some material to the Wiki at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mercador | 17:15 |
| geoffarnold | Good advice | 17:15 |
| geoffarnold | Oh, one thing that popped up yesterday (unexpectedly)... | 17:15 |
| geoffarnold | I'd been relying on the Keystone API doc description; it turns out the doc and the spec have diverged seriously | 17:16 |
| shaleh | yay.... | 17:16 |
| geoffarnold | See this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-site/+bug/1448602 | 17:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1448602 in openstack-api-site "Policy related operations of Identity v3 API in API Complete Reference need modification." [High,Triaged] | 17:17 |
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| shaleh | sigh, usual frustration of not tying docs to code | 17:17 |
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| geoffarnold | I also met with the Mass Open Cloud group on Monday | 17:18 |
| geoffarnold | To explore the relationship between Mercador and their fine-grained cross-region Mix & Match project | 17:18 |
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| geoffarnold | We've made two submissions for Tokyo - one just Mercador (myself and gyee) and one Mercador + Mix&Match (myself and Orran Krieger) | 17:19 |
| shaleh | geoffarnold: can you post a link to Mix&Match please | 17:20 |
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| geoffarnold | Hang on.... | 17:20 |
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| geoffarnold | ... don't have a link yet - getting one | 17:21 |
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| geoffarnold | The Keystone etherpad is here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-liberty-midcycle-meetup | 17:22 |
| geoffarnold | The link will be on the Etherpad soon | 17:23 |
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| shaleh | geoffarnold: thanks | 17:23 |
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| geoffarnold | MOC Mix-and-Match-Federation demo https://github.com/CCI-MOC/moc-public/wiki/Mix-and-Match-Federation | 17:25 |
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| geoffarnold | Do we have anything else? | 17:27 |
| geoffarnold | Nobody else is back from lunch | 17:27 |
| shaleh | I suspect not | 17:27 |
| shaleh | you guys need to absorb the conversations of the week | 17:27 |
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| geoffarnold | OK, let's wrap early. Please take a look at (and add to) the wiki page. It's mostly section headings at this point | 17:28 |
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| geoffarnold | #endmeeting | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:29 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jul 17 17:29:53 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:29 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mercadorproject/2015/mercadorproject.2015-07-17-17.01.html | 17:29 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mercadorproject/2015/mercadorproject.2015-07-17-17.01.txt | 17:29 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mercadorproject/2015/mercadorproject.2015-07-17-17.01.log.html | 17:29 |
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