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| alex_xu | emm...Ken'ichi not here. so let me run the meeting. | 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri May 8 12:00:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| eliqiao1 | cool | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
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| alex_xu | welcome to nova api meeting! | 12:00 |
| eliqiao1 | hi, host , alex_xu: | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | eliqiao1: hah | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | gilliard_afk: is on vacation also | 12:01 |
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| sdague | oh, hey folks | 12:01 |
| eliqiao1 | so let's wait for a while... | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | sdague: hi | 12:02 |
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| sdague | are we expecting jaypipes ? | 12:02 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: yes, there is one item asked by jaypipes | 12:02 |
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| alex_xu | ok...let run the meeting | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | #topic Vancouver summit | 12:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver summit (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:03 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-api-2.1-in-liberty | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-api-2.0-3rd-party | 12:03 |
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| alex_xu | We have new etherpad for summit now. Thanks for johnthetubaguy update it! | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | It is worth everybody read it before the summit | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | and review | 12:04 |
| annegentle | alex_xu: ideally you'll add a line about 2.1 docs, Diane Fleming has done a lot of work, and there's also a spec I've added to the agenda for today. | 12:05 |
| annegentle | I don't want to add to the agenda for the Summit session since we have docs sessions elsewhere | 12:05 |
| sdague | annegentle: any idea which session happens first? | 12:05 |
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| alex_xu | annegentle: you want to add a line in the first api session? | 12:06 |
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| alex_xu | annegentle: are you still there? | 12:07 |
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| alex_xu | let's move, I guess annegentle will back later | 12:07 |
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| alex_xu | #topic OverQuota return 400 vs 403 | 12:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OverQuota return 400 vs 403 (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:08 | |
| alex_xu | This is good point from sdague | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/063396.html | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | jaypipes: ^ are you here? | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | sdague: One point from api-wg meeting is make sense to me: After we have sub-error-code, the status code can be used for 'top level filter' in the client code. | 12:09 |
| annegentle | sdague: hmm | 12:09 |
| annegentle | looking | 12:09 |
| annegentle | sorry for the pause; getting kids to school | 12:09 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, honestly the errors json spec is what we need here, evertte pointed it out | 12:09 |
| sdague | realistically I think the http.rst is extremely sparse in the api-wg repo, and misses a lot of why | 12:10 |
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| sdague | if I get a chance I'm going to push some things up to it for review before summit | 12:10 |
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| sdague | to try to explain existing reasons | 12:10 |
| sdague | I also ended up -1ing some patches that were adding/consolidating the 501 error codes, because those are all wrong | 12:11 |
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| sdague | but I'm not sure we've yet decided the right thing there | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | sdague: why 501 is wrong? | 12:11 |
| sdague | because METHOD means something *extremely* specific in HTTP | 12:12 |
| sdague | METHOD is one of GET / POST / PUT / HEAD / DELETE / OPTIONS | 12:12 |
| eliqiao1 | sdague: curretnly , lots of 501 in v2.1 apis | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | sdague: I see now, you mean GET/POST...not implement | 12:12 |
| sdague | it does not mean "cells feature isn't enabled" | 12:12 |
| sdague | alex_xu: correct | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | sdague: what your expect for the our code not implement some function? | 12:13 |
| eliqiao1 | do we need to clean up them ? | 12:13 |
| sdague | this is the unfortunate thing that happens when people only read the error codes section, and not the whole spec | 12:13 |
| sdague | which is the same issue with the quota 403 thing | 12:13 |
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| sdague | eliqiao1: well, I think we need to figure out a consistent fix to get to | 12:14 |
| sdague | which is not yet decided | 12:14 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: so hope we can get consistent on the summit | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | sdague: is there api-wg session for it? | 12:14 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I don't know | 12:14 |
| eliqiao1 | sdague: how about add each api method possible error code to api-ref ? | 12:14 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: emm....so how to push we get agreement on it? | 12:15 |
| annegentle | there is an api-wg session let me dig up the link | 12:15 |
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| sdague | eliqiao1: right, so I was going to push up a set of reviews to the api-wg spec with some ideas. I think, honestly, we're just getting to uncover these issues now | 12:15 |
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| sdague | because when I originally argued against 501 2 years ago, there were very few people that had read the whole spec, and I got over ruled :) | 12:16 |
| eliqiao1 | #link http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html this doc is completly wrong | 12:16 |
| sdague | but it seems like we've got more people familiar now, so hopefully we can get there | 12:17 |
| sdague | eliqiao1: yes, it is | 12:17 |
| eliqiao1 | and missing some api methods now.. | 12:17 |
| sdague | eliqiao1: it's a starting point | 12:17 |
| annegentle | #link api wg https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/event/e14d84514003140fe30e984027299a44#.VUypQtNViko | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | annegentle: thanks | 12:17 |
| annegentle | eliqiao1: I want to talk about my spec for updating that set of pages | 12:17 |
| eliqiao1 | annegentle: that would be cool.. | 12:18 |
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| alex_xu | ok, so hope we get agreement on error code, let stop any patch for correct error code first I think | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | let's move on | 12:18 |
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| alex_xu | #topic Rework API Reference Information blueprint | 12:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rework API Reference Information blueprint (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:19 | |
| alex_xu | annegentle: your turn | 12:19 |
| annegentle | dat's the one! | 12:19 |
| annegentle | So, as we all recognize, the pages at http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html are showing their age and lack of maintenance | 12:19 |
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| alex_xu | annegentle: yes, agree | 12:19 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177934/ | 12:19 |
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| annegentle | I'm writing that spec and bringing it to the Design Summit in hopes of refreshing both the out put and the way its updated | 12:20 |
| annegentle | Last release, we moved the "compute-api" repo to openstack-attic and brought the version 2 API docs to nova/doc/source | 12:20 |
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| annegentle | This release, I want to 1) recombine the narrative with the reference and 2) redo how the reference is created | 12:21 |
| annegentle | For the 2), we are investigating autogenerating Swagger 2.0 from the nova source code | 12:21 |
| annegentle | I may start with glance first, but also wanted to ask this group your thoughts. | 12:21 |
| annegentle | because the first scope priority will be compute-related APIs - identity, compute, images, block storage, networking | 12:22 |
| * alex_xu actucally no idea about doc...he need reading more background | 12:22 | |
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| annegentle | alex_xu: great! sure, it's a lot to digest | 12:22 |
| alex_xu | annegentle: is there any plan to support microversion in your spec | 12:23 |
| annegentle | #link https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/event/29e7d4effc10832b4d6aa50339e0c973#.VUyqs9NViko | 12:23 |
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| annegentle | alex_xu: I'm discussing that but in a slightly different way... because our users need to know "what version of OpenStack has this API call?" | 12:23 |
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| annegentle | alex_xu: so microversions help with that use case, but other projects don't have them, so I have to figure out how to use metadata for each call to indicate to consumers what clouds have the call | 12:24 |
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| alex_xu | annegentle: ok | 12:24 |
| annegentle | That link above is for the session where we'll talk about scraping code to autogenerate the API reference -- and I'm very very cautious about the approach because I don't want to make the experience bad for end users. | 12:24 |
| annegentle | but we just aren't keeping up, and need the reviews to be by the people like sdague who know the history and context :) | 12:25 |
| eliqiao1 | annegentle: end users are facing doc directly, so, we may need their voice . | 12:25 |
| sdague | annegentle: oh dear, waiting on me seems like a terrible idea :) | 12:25 |
| annegentle | but for example, if the docs are built from code that gets in with an incorrect 500 error, we don't have defensible docs, you know? | 12:25 |
| annegentle | sdague: not waiting :) but we'll need reviewers from the code bases basically | 12:26 |
| annegentle | sdague: is it a terrible idea to scrape the code? risky? bad for end users? | 12:26 |
| annegentle | sdague: or sorta the place we're at with the scale of projects? | 12:26 |
| sdague | though, seriously, poke me in IRC on reviews you need my eyes on, my inbound queue is big enough so I won't end up seeing some of this otherwise | 12:26 |
| annegentle | sdague: got it, (same for me) | 12:26 |
| annegentle | Does anyone have concerns with migrating away from WADL? | 12:27 |
| annegentle | Concerns with Swagger 2.0? | 12:27 |
| annegentle | versioning concerns? | 12:27 |
| sdague | annegentle: I'm super happy to get away from WADL, as it always hurt my head | 12:27 |
| annegentle | sdague: for real. Diane's pretty much our only expert (well and me) | 12:28 |
| * alex_xu check WADL today...really hurt head... | 12:28 | |
| annegentle | Swagger seems like it's still tough to find experts in | 12:28 |
| annegentle | but at least it's modern, has a community around it. | 12:28 |
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| annegentle | Okay, one more bit of info | 12:28 |
| annegentle | then I'm done :) | 12:29 |
| annegentle | The Fuel team has a patch up on stackforge that scrapes the python code to generate Swagger. | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | annegentle: thanks for all the info! | 12:30 |
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| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179051/ | 12:30 |
| annegentle | thanks for letting me add to your agenda! | 12:30 |
| annegentle | thank goodness it came up AFTER the kids went to school ha ha :) | 12:30 |
| sdague | annegentle: it would be neat if that was in a more generic tool that could be used on multiple repos | 12:30 |
| * eliqiao1 take a quick on #link http://editor.swagger.io/#/ , it 's really cool things. | 12:31 | |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah, seems like that would gain us efficiencies for better app dev docs | 12:31 |
| annegentle | eliqiao1: yeah it's so nice it has a non-proprietary editor even if we don't think we'll be editing much | 12:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so, having just decided on json schema and json home, where does swagger fit in? | 12:32 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: ah didn't know that, that's why I'm here! | 12:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | honestly, looks like a cool ecosystem that will help us | 12:32 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: so... in nova we use json schema for data enforcement | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle: "decided" should probably have said "leaning twoards" | 12:33 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: json schema works with swagger | 12:33 |
| sdague | swagger is kind of one level up from that | 12:33 |
| sdague | and describes the whole API | 12:33 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: json home in my understanding is just a discovery | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, we were talking about json home and schema for responses, seems like swagger does some of that | 12:33 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: honestly, I think they all kind of play together | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, i was going to say, no reason not to have all of these, in some ways | 12:34 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: one other project has json home already (barbican?) | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle: oh, I heard keystone too I guess? but never went to check | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, sorry, just food for thought | 12:34 |
| alex_xu | yes, json-home is ready in keystone | 12:35 |
| annegentle | and glance has json schema on a GET call | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | the correct answer feels like its a combination of these things | 12:35 |
| sdague | annegentle: perhaps, that would be a really good API WG / Doc team output | 12:35 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: oh it's exactly what I need to know | 12:35 |
| sdague | a crisp view of how all these fit together | 12:35 |
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| annegentle | sdague: ah, yes | 12:35 |
| sdague | and a set of recommendations in using them | 12:35 |
| annegentle | sdague: I plan to shape that spec into that doc | 12:35 |
| sdague | annegentle: great | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, if we combine these, lets do it in the same way cross projects | 12:35 |
| annegentle | sdague: and then on the API WG side we'll have a guideline for "this is adequate doc that we'll be reviewing with" | 12:35 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: right | 12:36 |
| sdague | yep | 12:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | quite excited to see us getting someone on this stuff | 12:36 |
| annegentle | ok then all that's left is a pile of work! I hope you'll help me recruiting interested parties. The API WG is happy. | 12:36 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: I am too! So nice to focus! | 12:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: looking at swagger, we might need a separate one for each micro version? that sounds a bit evil… | 12:37 |
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| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: I really wonder that myself, and need to investigate. But if we're scraping for them anyway it's a bit like what we've had to do with WADL without human intervention. | 12:38 |
| annegentle | by "scraping for them" I mean creating swagger docs by scraping | 12:38 |
| annegentle | another thing we could do is use a wadl2swagger tool to migrate | 12:38 |
| annegentle | but that still requires human maintenance | 12:38 |
| annegentle | I guess we could still autogenerate only on added calls? | 12:39 |
| sdague | so, honestly, the wadl in nova is gorpy enough, that we should just come up with a starting from scratch approach | 12:39 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah good point, garbage in garbage out | 12:39 |
| sdague | honestly, right now, getting those docs together is probably the most important part of liberty API work, fixing inconsistencies are probably either late cycle, or next cycle | 12:39 |
| sdague | I'd say get the docs together for this cycle | 12:39 |
| annegentle | sdague: ++ | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | sdague: +1 | 12:40 |
| annegentle | oh one question here | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I would sign up to that | 12:40 |
| eliqiao1 | +1 for doc | 12:40 |
| annegentle | does nova gate test the request/responses still? | 12:40 |
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| annegentle | it did for v2, does it for v2.1? | 12:40 |
| sdague | annegentle: yes, through the samples mechanism | 12:40 |
| annegentle | I think other projects could learn alot from that and we should document it | 12:40 |
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| sdague | same as before | 12:40 |
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| annegentle | sdague: so I need to study that and get that into this spec as well | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | we might want to tweak all that if we get the docs right | 12:41 |
| sdague | annegentle: sure, though it is a bit gorpy as well cdent has some interesting work with a better framework of doing that. It would be good to loop him in as well. | 12:41 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh | 12:41 |
| annegentle | sdague: oh yeah, gabbi right? | 12:42 |
| sdague | yes | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | looks like we can move on | 12:43 |
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| alex_xu | annegentle: any more you want talk about? | 12:43 |
| annegentle | nope that's it | 12:43 |
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| johnthetubaguy | does this change the plan for the summit, I guess we need a concrete proposal to review there? | 12:43 |
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| alex_xu | annegentle: thanks for the info | 12:43 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: I remember there is session provided by annegentle you probably can get from the meeting log | 12:45 |
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| alex_xu | #topic Open Discussion | 12:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:45 | |
| alex_xu | any open? | 12:45 |
| eliqiao1 | I'd like to request some api sepc review from cores :) , related error code changes ... and some .. | 12:46 |
| eliqiao1 | backwards-incompatile changes. | 12:46 |
| alex_xu | eliqiao1: sure go ahead | 12:47 |
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| alex_xu | eliqiao1: emm... any link? | 12:48 |
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| eliqiao1 | I put them here #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/eli_v2_1_spec hope some one help to review. | 12:48 |
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| alex_xu | eliqiao1: ok, thanks | 12:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | eliqiao1: you say missing properties? they are stuff thats never been in the API right? | 12:49 |
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| eliqiao1 | johnthetubaguy: yes | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | and adverties policy patch also, the patch related to service, compute_node and quota are in good shape appreciate any review https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/nova-api-policy-final-part,n,z | 12:49 |
| sdague | eliqiao1: so... honestly, is there a real urgency here? I feel like I'd be much more comfortable if we actually focussed on documentation and internal cleanup this cycle. | 12:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: you talks the words out of my fingers | 12:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | took^ | 12:50 |
| eliqiao1 | sdague: agreed, sure doc's first. | 12:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | eliqiao1: and policy clean up, etc | 12:50 |
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| eliqiao1 | johnthetubaguy: sure :) | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | a lot of clean up | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: the question was about the Nova session, not the doc track one | 12:51 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: right, policy cleanup and removing v3 from the filesystem (which confuses people when they go digging around to find an answer) | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah | 12:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so we have a lot of agreement here, I guess I am trying to be sure we know what points need debate at the summit session | 12:52 |
| eliqiao1 | lot so v3 ,both in source code and directory name. so that's the best naming of v3(v2.1)? | 12:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | (there is no point just tell people plans really) | 12:52 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: so, I think the sessions are still good for building a more structured plan | 12:52 |
| sdague | and doing so in a public forum that can hopefully pull in some additional volunteers | 12:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | true | 12:53 |
| sdague | because there is a lot of work in all that cleanup, and a lot of work that people new to nova could even help with | 12:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, very true | 12:53 |
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| alex_xu | yea, and those cleanup are easy for new people | 12:53 |
| sdague | I think the goal of those sessions should be a quite detailed set of things that want to be accomplished, with milestones | 12:53 |
| sdague | and volunteers on both the writing of the code and reviewing of it | 12:54 |
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| eliqiao1 | for clean up in api works, do we need some specs to cover it? | 12:54 |
| sdague | so that we can keep that train moving | 12:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: right, I am really just wanting to be sure we have a clear list before we go into the session I guess | 12:54 |
| sdague | eliqiao1: I think from that session we can figure out if anything needs a detailed spec | 12:54 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: so I think the high level todos are in the etherpads for those sessions already | 12:54 |
| sdague | <alex_xu> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-api-2.1-in-liberty | 12:55 |
| sdague | <alex_xu> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-api-2.0-3rd-party | 12:55 |
| eliqiao1 | sdague: okay, cool | 12:55 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I typed those out this morning, just wondering if they are correct still | 12:55 |
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| sdague | I think so, though I will defer to alex_xu on that question | 12:56 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: is there anything else you think didn't get captured in those that came up here? | 12:56 |
| alex_xu | I will review the etherpad | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, we have lots of eyes on them, so thats awesome | 12:56 |
| sdague | alex_xu: great | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: thank you :) | 12:56 |
| alex_xu | sdague: should we put more detail about what allowed for microversion bump, which can help on dicussion? | 12:57 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: np | 12:57 |
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| alex_xu | let me check the etherpad, if I have any question will reach you guys | 12:57 |
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| eliqiao1 | sdague: there are still one change about policy.d which is reverted by sean at the end of Kilo. | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | we close to time, and we don't have meeting next week? | 12:58 |
| eliqiao1 | alex_xu: forget to adding on #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-api-2.1-in-liberty ? | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | eliqiao1: yes, the performance about policy.d | 12:58 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, we should probably discuss guidelines for API version changes in microversions | 12:59 |
| sdague | that should end up in tehre | 12:59 |
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| alex_xu | eliqiao1: there is performance item in the etherpad, is it for policy.d johnthetubaguy ? | 12:59 |
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| alex_xu | ok, it's time to finish the meeting, thanks for all join the meeting I host at first time! | 13:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: I think I mentioned it, but its worth checking | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: ok, will check it | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri May 8 13:00:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-05-08-12.00.html | 13:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-05-08-12.00.txt | 13:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-05-08-12.00.log.html | 13:00 |
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