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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 08:00:50 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| *** coolsvap|afk is now known as coolsvap | 08:00 | |
| anteaya | say hello if you are here for the third-party meeting | 08:01 |
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| jyuso1 | hi anteaya:) | 08:08 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: hello | 08:09 |
| anteaya | how are you? | 08:09 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: I'm fine,thanks:) | 08:10 |
| anteaya | glad to hear it | 08:10 |
| anteaya | how is your system functioning? | 08:10 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: Yes,it's working good after fixing some issue:) | 08:11 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: thanks:) | 08:11 |
| anteaya | good glad to hear it | 08:11 |
| anteaya | is there anything you would like to discuss today? | 08:11 |
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| nuritv | Hi anteaya | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | hello nuritv | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | nice to see you | 08:13 |
| anteaya | how have you been? | 08:14 |
| nuritv | thank you :) i have been good. | 08:14 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: we have 2 CI already online,and i want to update the email address of those.Could you help if you have time:) | 08:14 |
| anteaya | nuritv: glad to hear it | 08:14 |
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| nuritv | #openstack-meeting | 08:14 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: well you created the account credientials on launchpad correct? | 08:14 |
| nuritv | sorry. i also have a question regarding Nova CI | 08:15 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: not yet.I think it should be disable first? | 08:15 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: so you should be able to change the email on launchpad | 08:15 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: that would be a good idea, yes | 08:15 |
| anteaya | nuritv: sure go ahead | 08:15 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: no,the account of PCI CI is only used for 3rd part CI and it's working without a password,so it looks like i can't change it myself:) | 08:16 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: ah we moved to a self-serve system some time ago | 08:17 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: I was pretty sure you had a self-serve account | 08:17 |
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| nuritv | anteaya: thank you. so, as you remember we've mistakenly voted on the nova branch. since then we ran silently on our own machine, and i would like to step ahead and start showing our CI in a non voting mode (voting:0 ). what is the procedure for that? | 08:18 |
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| anteaya | on which projects? | 08:20 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: okay the accounts became self serve on december 3rd: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/third-party-announce/2014-December/000130.html | 08:21 |
| anteaya | or shortly before | 08:22 |
| anteaya | so your pci account was probably created by us | 08:22 |
| jyuso1 | ananteaya: yes,that's true. | 08:22 |
| anteaya | so if it is really really important for you to change your email addresses, you need to create a new account yourself | 08:22 |
| anteaya | I'll get you some guidelines | 08:22 |
| anteaya | #link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#creating-a-service-account | 08:23 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: yes,our boss think it is important.:) | 08:23 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OldtoNewGerritCIAccount | 08:23 |
| anteaya | well you need to create a new account then | 08:24 |
| anteaya | and once it is created switch to the new account | 08:24 |
| anteaya | then email the infra list with the details of the old account, username, Full Name and email address of the old account, and we will disable it | 08:24 |
| anteaya | nuritv: which projects do you want to comment on? | 08:25 |
| nuritv | Nova | 08:25 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: OK,thanks. | 08:25 |
| anteaya | so is this you, nuritv? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/Mellanox_CI | 08:26 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: sure | 08:26 |
| nuritv | anteaya:yes | 08:27 |
| anteaya | so neutron and nova | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | well if you want permission to comment on nova, and I recommend that so they get to know who you are and start my asking you in irc if their problems with your system | 08:27 |
| nuritv | this is a mistake. we are already voting on cinder as well | 08:27 |
| anteaya | I see two accounts | 08:28 |
| anteaya | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/Mellanox_Cinder_CI | 08:28 |
| nuritv | yes. there are only 2 accounts, because we've decided that we will ran nova on the same account as neutron. | 08:29 |
| nuritv | since it is actually the same features | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | gerrit only seems to know about Mellanox CI with the email address mlnx-openstack-ci@dev.mellanox.co.il | 08:30 |
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| anteaya | gerrit accounts need to have a unique email address mlnx-openstack-ci@dev.mellanox.co.il | 08:30 |
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| anteaya | the mellanox cinder ci account has the email address mawawdeh@asaltech.com associated with it | 08:31 |
| anteaya | and there are two accounts | 08:31 |
| anteaya | so that needs to get cleaned up | 08:31 |
| nuritv | yes. this email is the group of our CI team (both cinder and neutron). we will fix that. | 08:32 |
| anteaya | gerrit accounts need to have one full name and a unique email address | 08:32 |
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| anteaya | so yes once north america is awake again please send someone with the ability to make decisons about the accounts to the infra channel so we can disable the extra account | 08:33 |
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| anteaya | so to comment on nova patches | 08:33 |
| anteaya | spend time in nova irc channel | 08:33 |
| anteaya | and ask mikal for permission to comment | 08:33 |
| anteaya | show a history in the sandbox of commenting with full logs in accordance with requirements | 08:34 |
| anteaya | your system is in a disabled state right now? | 08:34 |
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| nuritv | no. it is fully working on cinder and Neutron, and slience on nova | 08:34 |
| anteaya | okay | 08:35 |
| anteaya | well it is a different account for cinder | 08:35 |
| anteaya | so you have to show the history of the account you want to ask permissions for | 08:35 |
| anteaya | show mikal the history for neutron | 08:35 |
| anteaya | and ask permission to comment on nova patches | 08:36 |
| anteaya | it is his decision | 08:36 |
| anteaya | also please update your wikipage to your current status: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/Mellanox_CI | 08:36 |
| anteaya | and update it whenever it changes | 08:36 |
| nuritv | thanks. We can also show history for nova from our local machine, since we are running it for over 2 weeks now | 08:36 |
| nuritv | thanks. i will | 08:37 |
| anteaya | and please update the cinder account with the correct email | 08:37 |
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| anteaya | thanks | 08:37 |
| anteaya | okay well talking to mikal is your next step | 08:37 |
| anteaya | he is in au | 08:37 |
| anteaya | so a similar timezone to you | 08:37 |
| nuritv | yes. i'll contact him today. thanks | 08:38 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:38 |
| nuritv | thank you! | 08:38 |
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| anteaya | wrapping this up now | 08:57 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:57 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 08:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 08:58:01 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-10-08.00.html | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-10-08.00.txt | 08:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-10-08.00.log.html | 08:58 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 09:00:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration' | 09:00 |
| anteaya | hello | 09:00 |
| anteaya | obondarev mikal gus | 09:01 |
| obondarev | o/ | 09:01 |
| obondarev | anteaya:hi, how are you? | 09:02 |
| anteaya | obondarev: good thanks | 09:02 |
| anteaya | and yourself? | 09:02 |
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| obondarev | me too, thank you :) | 09:02 |
| anteaya | good | 09:02 |
| anteaya | might just be you and I | 09:03 |
| anteaya | mikal had told me he expected to be here for this meeting | 09:03 |
| obondarev | looks so | 09:03 |
| anteaya | perhaps he will be here before the end | 09:03 |
| anteaya | so onward | 09:03 |
| anteaya | #topic the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) | 09:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:03 | |
| anteaya | anything new? | 09:03 |
| obondarev | nope | 09:03 |
| anteaya | next then | 09:04 |
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| obondarev | ok | 09:04 |
| anteaya | #topic the state of implementation (obondarev) | 09:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the state of implementation (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:04 | |
| obondarev | no changes on db patch which is expected as jlibosva is unavailable till April | 09:04 |
| obondarev | as we agreed, the patch is ready for testing | 09:04 |
| anteaya | great | 09:04 |
| obondarev | I put a comment on the patch with the steps which allowed me to migrate data for FlatDHCP model | 09:04 |
| gus | (hi) | 09:04 |
| obondarev | nova-net proxy patch is ready for testing as well, except floating ips and security groups | 09:05 |
| obondarev | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150490/ | 09:05 |
| gus | obondarev: I saw that, that was a nice amount of detail. | 09:05 |
| obondarev | so in fact the two patches may be tested together: migrating data first and enabling proxy mode on nova-api and nova-compute | 09:06 |
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| anteaya | okay | 09:06 |
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| anteaya | so nice work | 09:06 |
| obondarev | I post a comment on the proxy patch with the steps for testing as well | 09:06 |
| anteaya | great | 09:06 |
| obondarev | next plans are to test more cases - add/remove fixed ips for vms | 09:06 |
| anteaya | okay | 09:06 |
| obondarev | the more important is to get feedback | 09:06 |
| obondarev | however I didn't ask dansmith to review is since we retarget it for Liberty | 09:07 |
| anteaya | obondarev: yes | 09:07 |
| obondarev | and nova folks may probably have more important reviews at this stage of the cycle | 09:07 |
| anteaya | well I had a long discussion with dansmith last week | 09:07 |
| obondarev | so I hope he'll take a look when has time for it | 09:08 |
| obondarev | anteaya: interesting | 09:08 |
| anteaya | and though you still want to pursue this direction, he indicated to me that he doesn't support it | 09:08 |
| anteaya | and I had talked to mikal afterwards | 09:08 |
| anteaya | who I had hoped would be here | 09:08 |
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| anteaya | but we have to proceed with what we have | 09:09 |
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| anteaya | and you have done a lot of work and have something to test | 09:09 |
| anteaya | well done | 09:09 |
| obondarev | anteaya: I'd ask Dan to post the comment with his thoughts and concerns on the review | 09:09 |
| obondarev | as now I'm unsure what exactly he doesn't like | 09:09 |
| anteaya | so do you want ot get some feedback first or keep working on it | 09:10 |
| anteaya | the whole approach | 09:10 |
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| obondarev | yep | 09:10 |
| anteaya | was what I heard him say | 09:10 |
| anteaya | so since we don't have mikal | 09:10 |
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| anteaya | I leave the choice to you | 09:10 |
| anteaya | what do you want ot do now? | 09:10 |
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| obondarev | well, I remember Dan was concerned that the approach will not work for complex cases | 09:11 |
| obondarev | like allocate_for_instance | 09:11 |
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| anteaya | oh you heard that | 09:11 |
| anteaya | oh good | 09:11 |
| obondarev | now the patch allows is | 09:11 |
| obondarev | it* | 09:11 |
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| obondarev | so.. | 09:12 |
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| obondarev | I'd really like to know what problems do folks see with the approach | 09:13 |
| anteaya | well it sounds like you have made a decision | 09:13 |
| anteaya | go get some feedback | 09:13 |
| anteaya | and I just got an email from mikal, he is at a conference and won't be attending this week | 09:13 |
| anteaya | but it was nice of him to email | 09:13 |
| obondarev | yes, because I'm probably missing something | 09:13 |
| anteaya | okay so you have a way forward for next week | 09:14 |
| anteaya | anything else under this topic? | 09:14 |
| obondarev | sorry, which way do you mean? | 09:14 |
| obondarev | ask Dan for feedback? | 09:14 |
| anteaya | getting feedback on your work thus far | 09:14 |
| anteaya | yes | 09:14 |
| obondarev | anteaya: ok, thanks | 09:14 |
| anteaya | great | 09:14 |
| anteaya | okay to move to the next topic? | 09:15 |
| obondarev | yep | 09:15 |
| anteaya | #topic documentation | 09:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "documentation (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:15 | |
| anteaya | I have nothing new here | 09:15 |
| anteaya | the patch hasn't changed | 09:15 |
| anteaya | next | 09:15 |
| anteaya | #topic testing | 09:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:15 | |
| anteaya | so can we talk about testing the patches we have? | 09:16 |
| obondarev | we can | 09:16 |
| anteaya | you have been successful with a flat network setup obondarev? | 09:16 |
| obondarev | flatdhcp actually | 09:16 |
| anteaya | awesome | 09:17 |
| anteaya | so I think we should get some addition testers | 09:17 |
| obondarev | had to disable floating ips migration though | 09:17 |
| obondarev | as it's not ready | 09:17 |
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| anteaya | gus: are you in any position to be able to test the current patches? | 09:17 |
| obondarev | in both patches | 09:17 |
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| gus | I can run through a basic devstack scenario, but it's probably a repeat of what obondarev has already performed. | 09:18 |
| anteaya | obondarev: is the fact you had to disable floating ips migration in your notes on the patches? | 09:18 |
| gus | I don't have any larger/different setups that I can test unfortunately. | 09:18 |
| anteaya | gus: I see value in that | 09:18 |
| anteaya | I'm fine if we can confirm obondarev's findings | 09:19 |
| obondarev | anteaya: yes it is, in the comment on the db migration patch | 09:19 |
| gus | anteaya: sure, I'll give it a go. | 09:19 |
| anteaya | obondarev: the proxy patch doesn't mention the db migration patch in the commit message | 09:19 |
| gus | (It won't be until next week however - I'm out helping high school kids with robots for the rest of this week) | 09:20 |
| anteaya | do you think it should? | 09:20 |
| anteaya | gus: thank you | 09:20 |
| anteaya | gus: oh cool, that sounds like a lot of fun | 09:20 |
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| anteaya | gus: how are they doing with them/ | 09:20 |
| anteaya | ? | 09:20 |
| obondarev | anteaya: actually no, it is not dependent | 09:20 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: I didn't say dependent, but if you don't have a link to the db migration patch in the notes on the proxy patch, how should a reviewer or potential tester find it? | 09:21 |
| anteaya | let's make it easy for people | 09:21 |
| obondarev | anteaya: so testing proxy may be independent from testing db migration | 09:21 |
| anteaya | you just said you tested them together | 09:22 |
| obondarev | yeah, but that's not necessary | 09:22 |
| anteaya | so testing them together is a scenario, is it not? | 09:22 |
| anteaya | I am fine with it not being necessary | 09:22 |
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| anteaya | but I would like to make it possible for people who would like to, to find the db migration patch from the proxy patch | 09:23 |
| obondarev | ok, I can add a note to the commit message that it can be tested together with db migration | 09:23 |
| anteaya | wonderful thank you | 09:23 |
| obondarev | anteaya: sure, np | 09:23 |
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| anteaya | anything more on testing this week? | 09:23 |
| anteaya | moving on | 09:24 |
| anteaya | #topic open discussion | 09:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:24 | |
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| anteaya | so sdague and others are at the ops meetup | 09:24 |
| anteaya | apparently there are about 180 people there | 09:24 |
| anteaya | they had a good first day | 09:24 |
| anteaya | the migration didn't come up yet | 09:24 |
| anteaya | but about 75% of the people in attendance are already running neutron | 09:25 |
| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PHL-ops-tags | 09:25 |
| anteaya | this is based upon someone asking the question what service are they running and then guesstimating the show of hands | 09:25 |
| obondarev | would be nice to know how many of those who're using nova net is still interested in neutron migration | 09:25 |
| anteaya | I found the etherpad informative | 09:26 |
| anteaya | agreed | 09:26 |
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| anteaya | though we can't take the folks who show up to the meetup in the states as definitive of what our users need | 09:26 |
| obondarev | agree | 09:27 |
| anteaya | as we know some folks in some countries can't get to the states | 09:27 |
| anteaya | but yes, as much info as possible would be good | 09:27 |
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| anteaya | I trust sdague will do his best to gather as much info as he can from the group on the topic | 09:27 |
| anteaya | I wouldn't have any ability to contact him now anyway | 09:27 |
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| anteaya | I could email but couldn't guarentee he would read it before he presents | 09:28 |
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| anteaya | anything more for open discussion? | 09:28 |
| anteaya | I'll go with no | 09:28 |
| anteaya | thanks for all your hard work obondarev | 09:29 |
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| anteaya | it is awesome | 09:29 |
| anteaya | and thanks gus | 09:29 |
| obondarev | anteaya: thanks | 09:29 |
| anteaya | for just being you | 09:29 |
| anteaya | obondarev: :) | 09:29 |
| anteaya | happy roboting | 09:29 |
| anteaya | see you next week! | 09:29 |
| gus | yes, thanks obondarev | 09:29 |
| * gus waves | 09:29 | |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 09:29 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 09:29:48 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:29 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-10-09.00.html | 09:29 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-10-09.00.txt | 09:29 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-10-09.00.log.html | 09:29 |
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| mestery | Good morning folks! | 13:58 |
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| mestery | OR afternoon, evening, wherever you may be. | 13:59 |
| dougwig | O/ | 13:59 |
| armax | hi | 13:59 |
| yamamoto | hi | 13:59 |
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| yamahata | hello | 13:59 |
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| marun | hi | 13:59 |
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| ihrachyshka | o/ | 13:59 |
| enikanorov_ | hi | 14:00 |
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| carl_baldwin | hi | 14:00 |
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| amuller | heya | 14:00 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:00 |
| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
| pc_m | hi | 14:00 |
| mestery | Courtesy ping: salv-orlando markmcclain amotoki garyk obondarev | 14:00 |
| xgerman | Hi | 14:01 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 14:01:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| gongysh_ | hi | 14:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
| salv-orlando | Ialoha! | 14:01 |
| mestery | We've got a packed meeting today, so lets get to it! | 14:01 |
| salv-orlando | aloha! | 14:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
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| mestery | We passed FPF last week, and only a handful of BPs had no code. So, the good news is we have a lot to review! The bad news is, we have a lot to review. | 14:01 |
| obondarev | hi | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info Feature, String, and Dependency Freeze: March 19 | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #info RCs: April 9-23 | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #info Kilo release: April 30 | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-3 | 14:02 |
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| mestery | Any questions on dates for the end of Kilo? | 14:02 |
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| mestery | I also wanted to highlight the OpenStack Client weekly meeting | 14:02 |
| mestery | #info OpenStack Client weekly meeting Thursdays at 19:00 UTC in #openstack-meeting | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStackClient#Next_Meeting_Agenda | 14:03 |
| mestery | It would be great if we could get someone to represent Neutron there as we look to deprecate the client in Liberty | 14:03 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on as we have a packed agenda today. | 14:03 |
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| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
| mestery | enikanorov: Hello! | 14:03 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Also hello | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | mestery: hi | 14:04 |
| garyk | hi | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | not much of updates from me this week. we have one critical issue | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | q-agent-notifier-tunnel-update_fanout_e7932584281b4eaca12007d4db921da1 | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | oops | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | not this one! | 14:04 |
| mestery | lol | 14:04 |
| enikanorov_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1323658 | 14:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1323658 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Nova resize/restart results in guest ending up in inconsistent state with Neutron" [Critical,Confirmed] | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov_ | that is hanging for quite a while now... | 14:04 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Yes, it's been around for a long while, and unfourtanetly I had no time to dig into this the past week, I should have some time later this week yet. | 14:05 |
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| salv-orlando | enikanorov_: what's the gate hit rate in the past 7 days? | 14:05 |
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| enikanorov_ | salv-orlando: i didn't look at it, sorry | 14:06 |
| anteaya | o/ | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1382064 | 14:06 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1382064 in neutron "Failure to allocate tunnel id when creating networks concurrently" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Eugene Nikanorov (enikanorov) | 14:06 |
| salv-orlando | enikanorov_: np. I was just considering whether it was serious enough to preempt our current work and jump on it | 14:06 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov_ | for this one I've updated the fix with oslo.db wrapper introduced in 1.5.0 | 14:07 |
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| mestery | enikanorov_: Nice! | 14:07 |
| enikanorov_ | hopefully this will allow us to merge multiple API/RPC workers patch | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov_ | that's all from me | 14:07 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Thanks! Any other bugs anyone wants to bring up with the broader team here? | 14:08 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move along. | 14:08 |
| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:09 | |
| mestery | emagana: Hi there, you here this morning? | 14:09 |
| markmcclain | mestery: he's the ops summit right? | 14:09 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Good call | 14:09 |
| mestery | #undo | 14:09 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x96a5310> | 14:09 |
| mestery | Lets move on | 14:09 |
| emagana | I am here! | 14:09 |
| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:10 | |
| mestery | emagana: Ha! Hi there! :) | 14:10 |
| mestery | Quick docs update? | 14:10 |
| emagana | sorry,... at the operators meetup | 14:10 |
| mestery | emagana: OK, so no docs update? | 14:10 |
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| emagana | gerrit review on the nova-network to neutron migration: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155947/ | 14:10 |
| mestery | emagana: Nice! | 14:11 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155947/ | 14:11 |
| emagana | funny, we just discussed at the operators two things: | 14:11 |
| emagana | 1. more volunteers for the networking guide! We got four or five volunteers!!!! yeah!! | 14:11 |
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| markmcclain | emagana: awesome | 14:11 |
| anteaya | emagana: the nova-net to enutron migration docs patch is on hold, yes? | 14:11 |
| mestery | emagana: That is great! | 14:12 |
| anteaya | emagana: pending anne's approval to move ahead once networking docs transistion to rst files? | 14:12 |
| ajo | :-) | 14:12 |
| emagana | 2. how positive is nova-network to neutron migration for production cloud operators... These are the bad news... No good feedback yet. | 14:12 |
| anteaya | emagana: is this not true? | 14:12 |
| anteaya | emagana: what do you mean bad news | 14:12 |
| emagana | anteaya: Yes, it is in hold but just based on the location and format... so, yes you are correct | 14:12 |
| anteaya | emagana: what feedback have you gotten? | 14:13 |
| anteaya | btw I wasn't expecting _any_ good news on the migrtion to come from the ops meetup | 14:13 |
| emagana | anteaya: I will love to provide it right now but it will consume a lot of time, mestery should I go ahead? | 14:13 |
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| anteaya | so the fact you haven't gotten any is in line with my expectations | 14:13 |
| anteaya | it is kind of important to me | 14:13 |
| anteaya | unless mestery disagrees | 14:13 |
| emagana | anteaya: we can discuss offline! | 14:13 |
| anteaya | and the point wasn't really to get feedback | 14:13 |
| anteaya | it was to inform them of our work | 14:14 |
| mestery | anteaya: Ack | 14:14 |
| emagana | anteaya: bottom line is that even with a easier migration neutron still needs to provide 100% parity and people running IPv6 multihost are not seeing it yet | 14:14 |
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| anteaya | so this is a neutron parity issue corrent? | 14:15 |
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| anteaya | based on what you are hearing from those still running nova net? | 14:15 |
| salv-orlando | I knew about the multihost things... but what's specific about ipv6? | 14:15 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: For IPV6 multihost, we'll need IPV6 support in DVR I believe | 14:15 |
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| mestery | armax: ^^^ | 14:15 |
| anteaya | and scine when did nova net grow ipv6 ability? | 14:15 |
| emagana | mestery: that is correct! | 14:15 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: ack | 14:16 |
| salv-orlando | anteaya: my recollection as well | 14:16 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: obviously not there yet | 14:16 |
| mestery | Yup | 14:16 |
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| mestery | #info Operators asked about IPV6 DVR support at the Ops Mid-Cycle | 14:16 |
| anteaya | emagana: so please get some names if you can from your feedback | 14:16 |
| armax | mestery: there may be issues with DVR and IPv6, but at least from a a testing perspective, what works for legacy routing works for DVR too | 14:16 |
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| anteaya | as right now what you are saying makes no sense to me | 14:16 |
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| emagana | there was an interesting conversation about how Ipv6 works with nova-network and sc68cal had interesting questions about it.. Internet2 project is the operator asking for it | 14:17 |
| mestery | Those blasted internet researchers | 14:17 |
| mestery | ;) | 14:17 |
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| ajo | :) | 14:18 |
| mestery | OK, this is all good data emagana, but it looks like you and anteaya should sync up post Ops Meetup. | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | emagana: that's good to know the requirement. I still wonder however whether is a requirement for neutron or a lack of parity | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | but I guess that's just pointless speculation | 14:18 |
| mestery | OK, anything else emagana? | 14:18 |
| ajo | salv-orlando: it's a good question | 14:19 |
| emagana | mestery: not really! | 14:19 |
| anteaya | yeah, we need to follow what the tc said on this, not just make somtehting up based on what one person said or is doing | 14:19 |
| mestery | emagana: Thanks, and enjoy the rest of the Ops Meetup! | 14:19 |
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| emagana | I think we should have a session Ops with Neutron team | 14:19 |
| mestery | #action emagana and anteaya to sync post Ops Meetup around nova-network to neutron migration discussions | 14:19 |
| mestery | emagana: Also makes sense | 14:19 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move along, thanks emagana! | 14:20 |
| emagana | mestery: my feeling is that they may do not have all the information and maybe confused on how they work with Neutron ;-) | 14:20 |
| emagana | sure!!! | 14:20 |
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| mestery | #action Team to look at having an Ops/Neutron session in Vancouver at the Design Summit | 14:20 |
| mestery | #topic Should the *aas repos be depending on neutron HEAD? | 14:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Should the *aas repos be depending on neutron HEAD? (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:20 | |
| mestery | Not sure who put this on the agenda ... | 14:20 |
| ihrachyshka | marun, ? | 14:21 |
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| dougwig | marun added this. | 14:21 |
| mestery | marun: Floor is yorus! | 14:21 |
| dougwig | his idea was to pin the unit tests to specific commits of neutron, to prevent them from constantly breaking with breaking neutron commits. this moves the break further away from the break, but also doesn't randomly break the *aas gates. | 14:21 |
| HenryG | Same question applies to the vendor repos? | 14:21 |
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| mestery | HenryG: Good point | 14:21 |
| ihrachyshka | HenryG, even more relevant there since neutron team does not track them | 14:22 |
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| marun | I mainly wanted to raise the profile of this idea. | 14:22 |
| armax | HenryG: pinning on a specific hash is only feasbile once the decomp is complete | 14:22 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG, dougwig: I deliberately decided to not pint stackforge/vmware-nsx on any neutron commit, because this would make the whole point of 3rd party CI vain. | 14:22 |
| amuller | If Neutron is now a library, well, you normally use a specific version of a library and not just pull it from Git | 14:22 |
| salv-orlando | not sure if that can apply also to the *ass repos | 14:22 |
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| marun | salv-orlando: there should be a difference between pinning and 3rd party ci | 14:22 |
| dougwig | doing this would require an automated job (possible via mechanical turk at first) to keep bumping the commit revision. | 14:23 |
| marun | salv-orlando: 3rd party ci *should* test against latest | 14:23 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: you can have the CI determine whether you can move the pin forward | 14:23 |
| pc_m | dougwig: +1 | 14:23 |
| ajo | CI may test against HEAD | 14:23 |
| marun | salv-orlando: but I would expect repos to pin so that development and stabilization could proceed independently | 14:23 |
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| dougwig | if jenkins and 3rd party test against different commit revisions, people will ignore 3rd party even more than they do today. | 14:23 |
| mestery | dougwig: ++ | 14:23 |
| dougwig | we have to eat our own dogfood, not set up those CIs for failure. | 14:23 |
| marun | dougwig: everyone ignores non-voting ci, except when they have a reason not to | 14:24 |
| salv-orlando | marun: the thing is that the goal of CI for a plugin is to detect breakages induced in your system from the dependent library. And indeed should test against latest, as you say. Now... if I pin neutron I won't be able to test against latest anymore. | 14:24 |
| marun | dougwig: non-voting is delibertatly non-forcing - it's just communication | 14:24 |
| dougwig | heck, i even ignore the voting ones. and as a third-party CI operator, I should know better. | 14:24 |
| salv-orlando | marun: ignore my point, finish first your discussion with dougwig. No need to cross wires. | 14:24 |
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| mestery | marun: I see your point here, but I think salv-orlando's point is valid as well and I don't know how to reconcile the two. | 14:25 |
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| marun | it's simply an option | 14:25 |
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| dougwig | mestery - i would assume that the 3rd party CIs would test against the same revision as jenkins, via the tox.ini setting. | 14:25 |
| mestery | marun: OK | 14:25 |
| salv-orlando | If I had a chance to run two jobs I might be ok with having a "stable" voting job against a pinned neutron | 14:25 |
| marun | if folks in any given dependent project want to conjoin development and stabilization against dependencies, they can continue to do so. | 14:26 |
| salv-orlando | and another non-voting job against latest neutron | 14:26 |
| marun | I think it sucks, personally. | 14:26 |
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| dougwig | i'm really quite torn on this idea. on the one hand, it reduces the gate breakages that happen pretty often. on the other, it just moves the problem away further in time. | 14:26 |
| mestery | I like marun's idea of separating development and stabilization here | 14:26 |
| mestery | It's a solid idea | 14:26 |
| marun | It does require dedicated resources to stabilize, though. | 14:26 |
| mestery | It does kick the can down the road, but it has a lot of benefits as well | 14:26 |
| mestery | Right | 14:26 |
| salv-orlando | marun: I think marun has a good point. We can work around that. At the end of the day is trying to make people developing *asses easier | 14:27 |
| marun | It doesn't make less work, it just partitions it. | 14:27 |
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| mestery | Yes | 14:27 |
| dougwig | hopefully, something like proposal bot can keep that commit hash pretty current. | 14:27 |
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| marun | dougwig: that would be the hope. | 14:27 |
| marun | dougwig: falling permanently behind isn't an option. | 14:27 |
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| dougwig | right. by 'hopefully', i meant, 'dougwig is going to make sure there is a bot, for his own sanity.' | 14:27 |
| marun | I would hope we could experiment with this in the small, here. | 14:28 |
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| marun | With an eye towards doing it for all of openstack in the very distant future. | 14:28 |
| mestery | ++ | 14:28 |
| marun | We have the same problem between the 'integrated core' | 14:28 |
| pc_m | ++ | 14:28 |
| ajo | sounds good | 14:28 |
| mestery | So, lets try it out with LBaaS or VPNaaS, taht would be my proposal | 14:28 |
| mestery | And see how it goes | 14:28 |
| dougwig | lbaas can be the guinea pigs. | 14:28 |
| mestery | Thoughts? | 14:28 |
| dougwig | i'm curious how it turns out myself. | 14:29 |
| ajo | dougwig++ | 14:29 |
| mestery | #info LBaaS to try out the new pinning approach presented here | 14:29 |
| salv-orlando | nope, I am happy to extend the experiment to stackforge/vmware-nsx | 14:29 |
| marun | I would like to participate, to see how we can structure things to make it work. | 14:29 |
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| mestery | #info stackforge/vmare-nsx to try pinning from a vendor side as well | 14:29 |
| marun | Getting down and dirty is the only real way to see how to make it work. | 14:29 |
| mestery | marun: Can you work with dougwig and salv-orlando then? | 14:29 |
| mestery | :) | 14:29 |
| marun | mestery: definitely. | 14:29 |
| mestery | #info marun to work closely with dougwig and salv-orlando on the pinning strategy | 14:29 |
| mestery | Sweet! | 14:29 |
| dougwig | sweet. | 14:29 |
| dougwig | i think. :) | 14:29 |
| mestery | Consensus! :) | 14:29 |
| mestery | Group hug | 14:29 |
| marun | heh | 14:29 |
| pc_m | nice. | 14:30 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 | 14:30 |
| ajo | marun++, dougwig++, salv-orlando++ | 14:30 |
| mestery | Shall we move on in the agenda? | 14:30 |
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| mestery | marun: Do we need to discuss Xen and OVS support still? | 14:30 |
| marun | mestery: maybe? | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: one of us could be byzantine. You need a fourth person to establish a consensus ;) | 14:30 |
| mestery | #topic The Future of Xen and OVS Support | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "The Future of Xen and OVS Support (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:30 | |
| mestery | salv-orlando: lol | 14:30 |
| mestery | marun: Go ahead please! | 14:30 |
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| marun | Does anyone know of dedicated resources maintaining/testing Xen support? | 14:31 |
| marun | Bob Ball seems to be working on 3rd party CI | 14:31 |
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| marun | But I haven't seen any developers working on the project. | 14:31 |
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| marun | Anyone else? | 14:31 |
| mestery | Me either | 14:31 |
| marun | The question is, how can we justify Xen support without someone stepping up to work on it? | 14:32 |
| ihrachyshka | marun, on FOSDEM, I talked to someone from Xen, and they were not that happy about the idea of voting for all neutron patches at that time. is it changed now? | 14:32 |
| anteaya | bobball works with xen | 14:32 |
| anteaya | does ops on the ci system | 14:32 |
| ihrachyshka | though I also think manual check trigger would be enough | 14:32 |
| anteaya | has anyone talked to him? | 14:32 |
| marun | anteaya: I'm not sure that's enough | 14:32 |
| anteaya | oh I'm not saying it would be | 14:32 |
| mestery | anteaya: Yes, he replied to the thread on the ML | 14:32 |
| marun | anteaya: there was a conversation on the mailing list | 14:32 |
| anteaya | mestery: great | 14:32 |
| marun | anteaya: But only on the issue of 3rd party ci | 14:33 |
| mestery | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/058211.html | 14:33 |
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| marun | Even if we did have 3rd party CI, I'm not sure that Xen support belongs in-tree. | 14:33 |
| mestery | So, I think unless someone steps up soon and a CI starts running validating patches (especially on the OVS agent), we may need to look at deprecating support for Xen. | 14:33 |
| marun | There's nothing stopping it from being done out-of-tree. | 14:33 |
| mestery | marun: ++ | 14:33 |
| marun | The support is mainly at the agent level anyway | 14:33 |
| mestery | marun: Can you reply on that thread again with this info? Lets start moving it in that direction. | 14:34 |
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| salv-orlando | mestery, marun: there isn't. the only point is... does nova's xenapi driver still work with nova-network | 14:34 |
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| salv-orlando | otherwise we should look at a combined deprecation | 14:34 |
| salv-orlando | and see also what's johnthetubaguy opinion on it is | 14:34 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Good call, that can be on the ML thread as well | 14:34 |
| marun | salv-orlando: hmmm, more questions... | 14:34 |
| * johnthetubaguy wonders if he can help, reads scrollback | 14:35 | |
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| mestery | I do see Xen CI running against nova nad devstack | 14:35 |
| mestery | But not neutron patches | 14:35 |
| salv-orlando | johnthetubaguy: we realized XenAPI + OVS support has not been maintained for ages in Neutron. We're considering deprecation. | 14:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, right, gotcha | 14:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think Citrix are working on a CI for that, the current CI is testing nova-network | 14:36 |
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| marun | johnthetubaguy: CI is fine, but in the absence of development resources it's not clear how detected breakage would get fixed | 14:36 |
| * mestery sees BobBall join the channel now | 14:36 | |
| johnthetubaguy | I think its passing, but it has all the neutron related races libvirt used to have, because its missing the event callback logic in Nova, I think, it could be something else | 14:36 |
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| salv-orlando | johnthetubaguy: good. As long as we're still sure the nova-network support still works we can keep our discussion contained to neutron. | 14:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: howdy, XenAPI neutron CI, hows that going? | 14:37 |
| salv-orlando | johnthetubaguy: since I know the guy who did that support I was highly skeptical it worked ;) | 14:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | salv-orlando: :) | 14:37 |
| anteaya | BobBall: thanks | 14:37 |
| BobBall | You're right that we're seeing races that we haven't been able to resolve yet - so we don't have a stable environment we can then convert to a CI | 14:37 |
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| anteaya | BobBall: I think the bigger question is can neutron expect more resources in addition to yourself | 14:38 |
| marun | BobBall: Did you happen to read my most recent reply on the ml? | 14:38 |
| BobBall | Those may be, as John said, similar to those that were seen in libvirt, but we've not yet tested that theory. | 14:38 |
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| anteaya | since I admire what you do and think you do great work, but you are on ly one person | 14:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | salv-orlando: my take is, as long as deprecation is reversible, it could be the right thing to do | 14:38 |
| BobBall | Absolutely 100% yes in the medium term, but in the short term we don't have additional resources to add on it. | 14:38 |
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| BobBall | I did marun - but didn't have much more to add. | 14:39 |
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| BobBall | My perspective is that I agree that a CI is a pre-requisite to being able to ensure continued support of XenAPI+OVS in Neutron | 14:39 |
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| marun | BobBall: Do you think continued support for Xen in Neutron is justified under the current circumstances? | 14:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I want to get the quark plugin that we use with XenServer more tested against upstream, etc, but honestly, that effort has not started yet, but its something I want to make happen if possible | 14:39 |
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| BobBall | I don't want Neutron to drop this support, but I can't justifiably argue for it until we have an automated way of testing it upstream. | 14:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | marun: its an interesting twist with the nova-network deprecation talk, but that shouldn't change things | 14:40 |
| mestery | I'm sensing we may need to deprecate it in the short term then, or at least move it out of tree into a stackforge repo. | 14:40 |
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| mestery | It coudl exist in stackforge in it's current state until someone takes it up and fixes it. Thoughts? | 14:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | mastery: thats my take on this too | 14:41 |
| marun | I think if Citrix/the Xen community wanted to provide Xen support for Neutron, they could do so out of tree relatively easily. | 14:41 |
| BobBall | In terms of nova-network deprecation it is understood that XenAPI will have to work with Neutron+OVS, including an upstream CI, and we are aware of that as a requirement moving forward. | 14:41 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I seem to recall that the XenAPI support for OVS is tightly coupled with the OVS agent. I'm not sure if it can be split out, but it's surely worth trying | 14:42 |
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| mestery | #info Xen Support in Neutron to move out of tree into stackforge if possible | 14:42 |
| mestery | OK, I think we can close on this subject here now. | 14:42 |
| mestery | BobBall johnthetubaguy, thanks for attending with us here! | 14:42 |
| mestery | Lets move on in the agenda now, 17 minutes left | 14:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | no worries, sorry its not a better answer, but sounds like a good way forward | 14:42 |
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| amotoki | perhaps out of tree development allows xen folks to avoid continueous CI posting and they can pin neutron version to stabilize their developemnet | 14:42 |
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| mestery | #topic Report on progress of "MTU selection and advertisement" blueprint implementation. | 14:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Report on progress of "MTU selection and advertisement" blueprint implementation. (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:42 | |
| mestery | Does anyone know who put this on the agenda? | 14:43 |
| amotoki | (though it is tihgtly coupled with ovs-agent) | 14:43 |
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| mestery | HenryG: ^^^^ | 14:43 |
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| salv-orlando | ijw-ubuntu, I thin? | 14:43 |
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| HenryG | Hi | 14:43 |
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| HenryG | I would say the implementation is going fine. It will not be a lot of code. | 14:44 |
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| mestery | HenryG: OK, is that the updatE? :) | 14:44 |
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| mestery | HenryG: Have we merged the spec patch yet? That's been there for at least 10 days I think | 14:44 |
| HenryG | I don't have +A on specs. | 14:44 |
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| mestery | HenryG: I'll take care of that post-meeting | 14:44 |
| mestery | Thanks for the update HenryG! | 14:45 |
| mestery | Moving right along ... | 14:45 |
| mestery | #topic Proposal to remove py3* from the default tox envlist for now to address "fail blindness" | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposal to remove py3* from the default tox envlist for now to address "fail blindness" (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:45 | |
| mestery | gus: This is you I think :) | 14:45 |
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| mestery | And maybe dougwig too | 14:45 |
| ihrachyshka | well, just +1 on making 'tox' actually pass. Is it controvercial? | 14:45 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/137516 | 14:45 |
| markmcclain | the target exists for everyone else right? | 14:45 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: I think so, thus why gus put it here | 14:45 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Yes, I think so | 14:46 |
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| dougwig | i am about +20000000 on this. i hate that we put something in broken, to attempt social engineering. when it actual fact, it trains the opposite behavior, and frustrates newbies. | 14:46 |
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| markmcclain | dougwig: agreed | 14:46 |
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| markmcclain | generally we've gotten push back from the folks that really want py3 support now | 14:47 |
| mestery | I am +2 on that patch until it works as well dougwig. | 14:47 |
| dougwig | it is like this is all the integrated projects, so i'm not sure if we should do this in neutron (heck yes we should) or if we need to fight a larger battle. | 14:47 |
| ajo | +1 | 14:47 |
| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, we're like ~3-4 cycles from there I guess. | 14:47 |
| mestery | dougwig: We control our own destiny in neutron, we can win that battle then fight the larger war :) | 14:47 |
| salv-orlando | dougwig: I think we're in control of our own tox.ini | 14:47 |
| dougwig | if they want it now, submit the code to support py3. i'd like it to work... that's not my beef. | 14:47 |
| dougwig | then here comes a +a | 14:47 |
| mestery | dougwig: Well said | 14:47 |
| markmcclain | ihrachyshka: I know.. wish we were much closer | 14:47 |
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| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, we're blocked by eventlet. main obstacle. | 14:48 |
| salv-orlando | I think this change is doing nothing. Just avoiding failures for tests people probably don't even expect to run | 14:48 |
| markmcclain | ihrachyshka: eventlet has py3 support | 14:48 |
| salv-orlando | so it's harmless, imho | 14:48 |
| markmcclain | (it's brand new) | 14:48 |
| markmcclain | I'm +2 on this | 14:48 |
| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, well, not for long (it's very fresh, and afaik still bugs are found) | 14:48 |
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| salv-orlando | ihrachyshka: so do reckon it's not feasible to achieve 3.x compatibility in Liberty? | 14:49 |
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| ihrachyshka | salv-orlando, hah, in dreams - maybe | 14:50 |
| dougwig | even if it's reachable in two weeks, shouldn't the tox env be added in the patch that enables py3? | 14:50 |
| dougwig | if we submitted code to enable something broken for *anything else*, would anyone here approve it? | 14:50 |
| ihrachyshka | I don't know why we discuss the matter for 5 mins already | 14:50 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: it's going to take a good deal of work dive into the dependency hole and fix the odd cases where it doesn't work | 14:50 |
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| marun | dougwig: nope | 14:50 |
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| dougwig | ihrachyshka: because religion. | 14:50 |
| ihrachyshka | ok, the patch is +A'd, no way back, can we move on? :) | 14:51 |
| mestery | OK, shall we move on? | 14:51 |
| dougwig | please | 14:51 |
| mestery | Lets move on. | 14:51 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachyshka: there is always a way back! | 14:51 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:51 | |
| salv-orlando | unless you jump off a cliff. In that case there isn't | 14:52 |
| mestery | 8 minutes left, Open discussion time! | 14:52 |
| ihrachyshka | I have oslo.log patch for kilo that breaks all CI for split vendors | 14:52 |
| ihrachyshka | I wonder whether we're ok with merging it as-is, knowingly breaking them | 14:52 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: link? | 14:52 |
| ihrachyshka | (breakage is because they use neutron.openstack.common.log) | 14:52 |
| ihrachyshka | #link https://review.openstack.org/159638 | 14:53 |
| markmcclain | ihrachyshka: can we not leave a shim there? | 14:53 |
| amotoki | we need to remove logging from oslo-incubator. | 14:53 |
| marun | markmcclain: via sys.modules hacks? | 14:53 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachyshk, armax: I think one of the reasons of the decomposition is to not waste time with vendor incompatibilities | 14:53 |
| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, libraries are mutual exclusive | 14:53 |
| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, because of conflicting options | 14:53 |
| marun | markmcclain: it may break pylint though ;) | 14:53 |
| markmcclain | marun: haha | 14:53 |
| mestery | lol | 14:53 |
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| sripriya | armax: mestery: May I request you to please take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159056/ for brocade vyatta vendor decomposition and provide your review. | 14:53 |
| salv-orlando | so what do you reckon if we just send a warning on the mailing list, wait 48 hours for vendor repos to adapt, and then merge it? | 14:54 |
| salv-orlando | without going into hacks. | 14:54 |
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| ihrachyshka | all in all, vendors should follow some kind of guidelines for their code and packages released, and I started a new wiki page for that | 14:54 |
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| ihrachyshka | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/VendorSplitPackaging#Neutron_Vendor_split:_Packager_perspective | 14:54 |
| ihrachyshka | please take a look and review | 14:54 |
| ihrachyshka | salv-orlando, I'm ok with sending the email | 14:54 |
| armax | salv-orlando, ihrachyshka: I think we whould not delete openstack/common log | 14:54 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: until everyone is moved over | 14:54 |
| ihrachyshka | salv-orlando, we just need to review the patch quickly enough because of dep freeze | 14:55 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: if we can avoid breaking the world, I think we should | 14:55 |
| marun | Maybe we need a dedicated communication mechanism for intentional breakage? | 14:55 |
| ihrachyshka | armax, I already mentioned conflicting options, that's a common issue for oslo graduations | 14:55 |
| amotoki | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/058610.html (oslo.log information) | 14:55 |
| ihrachyshka | amotoki, right, that's what I would expect them to see if they use both versions | 14:56 |
| dougwig | this is the "problem" with putting oslo in non-leaf nodes of the dependency tree, really. you start having the same kind of backwards compatibility issues that we have with other neutron entry points that are being used in a library like fashion. | 14:56 |
| ihrachyshka | marun, + for communication channel. some [new-tag] for openstack-dev? | 14:56 |
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| armax | ihrachyshka: ok | 14:56 |
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| marun | ihrachyshka: either that or a wiki page/file in tree that lists successive, timestamped breaking changes | 14:57 |
| marun | ihrachyshka: so when breakage is detected, that is the first thing to check | 14:57 |
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| marun | ihrachyshka: rather than having to search ml | 14:57 |
| ihrachyshka | understood. wiki is probably more dynamic for the use case | 14:58 |
| amotoki | single entry point for information is nice. | 14:58 |
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| ihrachyshka | I'll create the page and give a heads-up in ML | 14:58 |
| marun | ihrachyshka: sounds good | 14:58 |
| dougwig | ihrachyshka: this becomes a real pain for having the same out-of-tree code support both kilo and earlier releases. | 14:58 |
| ihrachyshka | (and reviews are welcome) | 14:58 |
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| mestery | OK, thanks folks! | 14:59 |
| mestery | Don't forget about Kilo-3 reviews :) | 14:59 |
| mestery | See you next week! | 14:59 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| ihrachyshka | dougwig, we chose our destiny... | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 14:59:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-10-14.01.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-10-14.01.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-10-14.01.log.html | 14:59 |
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| yamamoto | bye | 14:59 |
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| salv-orlando | adieuuu | 15:00 |
| rkukura | bye | 15:00 |
| marun | ciao | 15:00 |
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| amotoki | bye- | 15:00 |
| yamahata | bye | 15:00 |
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| mlavalle | bye | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 15:01:19 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:01 |
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| alex_xu | o/ | 15:01 |
| edleafe | o/ | 15:01 |
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| ajo | bye :) | 15:02 |
| PaulMurray | o/ | 15:02 |
| n0ano | let's get started then | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #topic patch status | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "patch status (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:03 | |
| lxsli | o/ | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | taking things a little out of order while waiting for bauzas to join | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | rather than talking about the patches themselves I think the better use of our time is to talk about reviews... | 15:04 |
| n0ano | specifically edleafe & PaulMurray do you have any patches that need reviews right now? | 15:04 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, you bet cha | 15:05 |
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| edleafe | me too | 15:05 |
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| PaulMurray | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/make-resource-tracker-use-objects,n,z | 15:05 |
| n0ano | (it was kind of a rhetorical question), PaulMurray go ahead | 15:05 |
| edleafe | I added them to the etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-priorities-tracking | 15:05 |
| PaulMurray | There are a bunch by me that are passing ci | 15:05 |
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| PaulMurray | and a bunch by lxsli that need a rebase | 15:06 |
| PaulMurray | please look and review :) | 15:06 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:06 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: you should add them to the etherpad, too | 15:06 |
| * bauzas waves late | 15:06 | |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, ok | 15:06 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, I also need to add | 15:06 |
| bauzas | sorry was diverted by a bug | 15:06 |
| n0ano | bauzas, np | 15:06 |
| PaulMurray | one more - is that allowed while no one is looking (I mean after FPF) | 15:07 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: oh, wait - I see them there already | 15:07 |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, all but 1 of your patches on that page need a rebase, should we wait off on those? | 15:07 |
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| PaulMurray | really? | 15:07 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: if it's part of an existing patch, I believe it's ok | 15:07 |
| PaulMurray | edleafe, I can spin it that way - otherwise I am sure it would be allowed as an exception | 15:08 |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, I just refreshed the page and that's what it says | 15:08 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, I'm looking at them now, I have a chain of 4 that all look ok to me | 15:09 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: it all depends on *why* you are adding it | 15:09 |
| edleafe | n0ano: the links on the etherpad don't match his series | 15:09 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: you need to update the etherpad to get them in sync | 15:09 |
| n0ano | edleafe, ahh, that would explain it | 15:10 |
| PaulMurray | edleafe, ah, I see - yes it does need updating, will do now | 15:10 |
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| n0ano | I think I need to create a dashboard on the wiki for patches similar to the one we have for specs, that'd be easier than the etherpad | 15:10 |
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| * n0ano hates etherpads for tracking purposes | 15:10 | |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, is there some process I need to follow to add a patch - it is needed to complete | 15:11 |
| bauzas | n0ano: why ? | 15:11 |
| edleafe | n0ano: yeah, but that's where core reviewers are supposed to be looking | 15:11 |
| PaulMurray | objects for RT - to allow online upgrade | 15:11 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I mean, we already have the core etherpad | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | the etherpad is never obvious, all the important info is always randomly located throughout the page, I can never see the forest for the trees | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | anyway, rather than a new wiki table I guess we can just try and make sure the tracking etherpad is up to date | 15:12 |
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| edleafe | PaulMurray: is the patch part of an existing series? | 15:13 |
| PaulMurray | edleafe, yes | 15:13 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: if so, just add it | 15:13 |
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| PaulMurray | edleafe, I was guessing no one would notice anyway | 15:14 |
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| edleafe | PaulMurray: it totally fits with the spirit of the FPF | 15:14 |
| edleafe | focusing on what needs to merge for Kilo | 15:14 |
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| n0ano | so is the assumption that any patch on the traking page is ready for review unless there's something specific (like needs rebase) on it? | 15:15 |
| edleafe | n0ano: yep | 15:15 |
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| n0ano | OK, then we know our marching orders, review all the open patches on that page | 15:16 |
| n0ano | is there any specific patch that is problematic that needs discussion? | 15:16 |
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| edleafe | n0ano: I really need the early patches to merge | 15:17 |
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| edleafe | rebase hell is killing my productivity :) | 15:17 |
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| n0ano | edleafe, no good answer on that, I feel your pain | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: eh | 15:18 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, this one seems to be blocking things: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137817/ | 15:18 |
| PaulMurray | lxsli has this at the head of his series | 15:18 |
| PaulMurray | it belongs to sahid - are you here sahid | 15:19 |
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| lxsli | ndipanov's comments are from just yesterday | 15:20 |
| n0ano | looks like ndipanov has issues with it's current incarnation, sahid will have to address those concerns | 15:20 |
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| edleafe | PaulMurray: speaking of holding things up, do you have any issue with my fix for the PciDevTracker merging before your patch for the RT compute_node change? | 15:20 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145619/ | 15:20 |
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| PaulMurray | edleafe, i think its a trivial change for me to rebase - so i don't mind as long as | 15:21 |
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| PaulMurray | edleafe, I get some eyes on mine to help them through | 15:22 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: ok, great | 15:22 |
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| edleafe | Let's all make sure to review PaulMurray's patches so that cores can see consensus | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | edleafe, +1 | 15:23 |
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| n0ano | if nothing else on specific patches let's move on | 15:23 |
| n0ano | #topic specs on hold | 15:23 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, this is you, you indicated last week you have a plan? | 15:24 |
| bauzas | n0ano: oh was thinking you were just mentioning the reqspec BP ? | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, yeah, both request spec anc change select_destinations are on hold on the tracking page, what's up? | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: just to be clear, there is no magic bullet about any plan - just saying that we need to work in parralel on working on the migration/split while we also work on the missing BPs | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and I wanted to wait for FF to happen before stating about what was missing | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: about the resqpec BP, that's another point | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so I provided an implementation series, and I had good feedback | 15:26 |
| bauzas | n0ano: my point was that it was far better to work on a separate RPC method instead of modifying the select_dest() signature | 15:26 |
| n0ano | well, since the specs were approved does thins mean you need to change the design or is this just holding up on the implementation | 15:27 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and also rework on the RequestSpec object, as some fields were either unnecessary/confusing | 15:27 |
| edleafe | bauzas: despite jaypipes' objection, this really can't fit into Kilo | 15:28 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I said it was far better to defer to Liberty and possibly ask for backport before FF if successful | 15:28 |
| bauzas | edleafe: agreed | 15:28 |
| bauzas | I mean, that's all about paperwork | 15:28 |
| n0ano | so this sounds more like implementation so we just needs a little more time to get it right | 15:28 |
| bauzas | a spec is just an approval step | 15:28 |
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| * n0ano freezes can be a pain even if they are a great motivator | 15:29 | |
| bauzas | so my point is to say : forget about the specs and focus on the implementation | 15:29 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:29 |
| bauzas | in the meantime, I'll cover the spec stuff by asking for Liberty fast approval | 15:29 |
| bauzas | shouldn't be a big deal | 15:29 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, famous last words :-) | 15:29 |
| bauzas | but I'll drop the 2nd spec | 15:29 |
| edleafe | n0ano: was just going to say the same thing :) | 15:30 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, OK, sounds like you're driving this fine we'll just see how it goes | 15:30 |
| bauzas | well, my trustness increased a lot once I had bp/isolate-sched-db merged in 3 days | 15:30 |
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| n0ano | let's move on then | 15:30 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:30 |
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| n0ano | anything new? | 15:31 |
| bauzas | and bp/detach-service has good press | 15:31 |
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| sahid | PaulMurray: i'm here yes | 15:31 |
| n0ano | sahid, scroll back, we were wondering about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137817/ | 15:31 |
| sahid | i going to work on ttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/137817/ | 15:31 |
| sahid | yep | 15:31 |
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| sahid | we need to talk to jay with ndipanov | 15:32 |
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| sahid | the issue is alse in relation with this bp https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/allocation-ratio-to-resource-tracker | 15:33 |
| sahid | also | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | sahid: hum, old story here | 15:34 |
| n0ano | sahid, that allocation BP hasn't even been started, are you dependant upon it? | 15:35 |
| bauzas | sahid: I mean, that BP is not started yet | 15:35 |
| sahid | n0ano: not dependant but should be interesting to speak about it with jay | 15:35 |
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| sahid | about to think of the direction of the work done here ttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/137817/ | 15:36 |
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| PaulMurray | sahid, the primary objective of the RT objects work at the moment | 15:36 |
| PaulMurray | is to gat rid of any conductor calls from RT | 15:37 |
| PaulMurray | to allow on line upgrade | 15:37 |
| PaulMurray | sahid, I think your change is not necessary for that - is that right? | 15:37 |
| sahid | PaulMurray: i think so yes | 15:38 |
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| PaulMurray | sahid, the changes lxsli has after you in the series are needed, lxsli do you really need sahid change to go first? | 15:39 |
| lxsli | PaulMurray: it made the NUMA tests considerably easier but it's possible I could rebase off | 15:39 |
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| PaulMurray | (n0ano, bauzas sorry I think we have gone off topic for a moment) | 15:40 |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, not too much, this is important so I don't have a problem finishing this up | 15:40 |
| sahid | PaulMurray: the point is only few people can review the work done | 15:40 |
| PaulMurray | lxsli, there is still an ordering issue between your changes and mine I think because both on RT and RT-tests | 15:40 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: eh that's opens | 15:41 |
| n0ano | but is sounds like if lxsli can make his changes independent from sahid that would be best | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | so it might be ok if we get mine through and then worry about it later? | 15:41 |
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| PaulMurray | like later in the week hopefully.... | 15:41 |
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| lxsli | when's the next deadline? | 15:41 |
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| PaulMurray | FF is..... | 15:42 |
| n0ano | FF is 3/12 | 15:42 |
| lxsli | Yow. OK thanks | 15:42 |
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| bauzas | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 15:42 |
| bauzas | n0ano: nope | 15:42 |
| bauzas | n0ano: 3/19th | 15:43 |
| n0ano | note, deep freeze is 3/19 | 15:43 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, yes, I see 3/19 | 15:43 |
| lxsli | Right, that's a bit easier, still I'll prio this | 15:43 |
| n0ano | bauzas, you're right, 3/12 is oslo, my bad | 15:43 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, yes, you gave me a shock for a moment then... | 15:43 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, just making sure you heart still works :-) | 15:44 |
| lxsli | n0ano ever worked in a match factory? | 15:44 |
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| n0ano | lxsli, I think I almost just created a fire :-) | 15:44 |
| n0ano | anyway, are we good on this subject for now? | 15:45 |
| sahid | perhaps use the time to rework that work to review what is already done... | 15:45 |
| sahid | to review | 15:45 |
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| sahid | ... i mean instead of working to separate the changes, why not to use that time to review the work already done | 15:46 |
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| n0ano | sahid, I worry about depend patches, if we can do things independently things will go much smoother | 15:46 |
| lxsli | My patches are (afaik) ready to go whereas it's unknown how long it'll take to make ndipanov happy | 15:46 |
| bauzas | sahid: I'm an optimist, we can do both :) | 15:46 |
| n0ano | lxsli, +1 (my thought exactly) | 15:47 |
| ndipanov | lxsli, which ones | 15:47 |
| bauzas | well, provided someone's not hitting a bug that takes all his time :) | 15:47 |
| lxsli | but yes if your patch suddenly goes through I'll be happy! | 15:47 |
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| n0ano | ndipanov, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145619/ | 15:47 |
| lxsli | ndipanov: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137817/ | 15:47 |
| ndipanov | lol those are 2 different patches | 15:47 |
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| n0ano | ndipanov, ignore me, bad paste | 15:47 |
| PaulMurray | ndipanov, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137817/ is blocking | 15:48 |
| ndipanov | I see | 15:48 |
| ndipanov | well I don't know what to tell you guys | 15:48 |
| sahid | well i can understand, i just say that that effort can be done to make thing moving insteadof rewrite and rewrite and.. | 15:48 |
| ndipanov | I hate that we have that | 15:48 |
| ndipanov | attempt to put "ratio" into limits | 15:49 |
| ndipanov | that's just like | 15:49 |
| ndipanov | sloppy | 15:49 |
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| PaulMurray | ndipanov, the work it is blocking is for on line upgrade - we can reorder if that patch not likely to be resolved | 15:49 |
| n0ano | we're not trying to resolve 137817 here, just seeing how we can handle the dependency | 15:49 |
| ndipanov | n0ano, can it be dropped from the critical path | 15:50 |
| PaulMurray | ndipanov, so if its likely to be sorted quicly we can keep the order | 15:50 |
| sahid | n0ano: perhaps thinking about how to resolve can help to handle dependency | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | hmmm | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | well | 15:50 |
| PaulMurray | ndipanov, if not we can reoder to get the upgrade stuff in | 15:50 |
| n0ano | ndipanov, we think so, lxsli is the one that would have to change his patch | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | ok let me review the whole series today | 15:50 |
| PaulMurray | ndipanov, thanks, much appreciated | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | (once I'm done with some documentation( | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | and then I'll vote with that in mind | 15:51 |
| ndipanov | I mean | 15:51 |
| ndipanov | I don't think it's critical so if it's stopping useful work - I can just let it go | 15:51 |
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| PaulMurray | ndipanov, your call :) | 15:51 |
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| ndipanov | yeah - I wasn't too constructive on that one - I just kept looking at that patch without looking at the big picture | 15:52 |
| ndipanov | but I have an idea | 15:52 |
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| n0ano | how about if ndipanov does a +1 on 137817 by tomorrow we'll stay the course, otherwise lxsli can rework his patch to not be dependent upon this one | 15:53 |
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| PaulMurray | n0ano, +1 | 15:54 |
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| lxsli | n0ano: +1 | 15:54 |
| n0ano | sounds good... | 15:54 |
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| n0ano | anything else new in the last 5 minutes we have? | 15:54 |
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| ndipanov | n0ano, -1 - s/rework/re-work/ | 15:54 |
| * ndipanov kids | 15:55 | |
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| lxsli | too soon | 15:55 |
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| ndipanov | lol | 15:55 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162180/ comments are welcome | 15:55 |
| n0ano | ndipanov, are you sure, I'll have to check www.m-w.com on that :-) | 15:55 |
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| PaulMurray | bauzas, you see my comment already? | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | PaulMurray: yeah | 15:56 |
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| n0ano | anyway, I think we can call it a meeting and move anything else over to the nova channel | 15:57 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: I don't see how it could add more nodes to be checked | 15:57 |
| n0ano | tnx everyone, talk to you next week | 15:57 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 15:57 | |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, lets ocntinue on other channel | 15:57 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 15:57:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-10-15.01.html | 15:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-10-15.01.txt | 15:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-10-15.01.log.html | 15:57 |
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| garyk | salv-orlando: ping | 16:03 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 16:18 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 16:18:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:18 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 16:18 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 16:18 |
| boris-42 | ping meteorfox | 16:19 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: hi! | 16:19 |
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| andreykurilin | hi all! | 16:20 |
| boris-42 | or it is not now | 16:20 |
| andreykurilin | I'm here:) | 16:20 |
| boris-42 | ah it is not now | 16:20 |
| boris-42 | it's 16:18 now | 16:20 |
| andreykurilin | gg | 16:20 |
| boris-42 | in UTC and meeting is 17:00 UTC | 16:20 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 16:20 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 16:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 16:20:25 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-10-16.18.html | 16:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-10-16.18.txt | 16:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-10-16.18.log.html | 16:20 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeting Rally | 17:02 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: redixin andreykurilin msdubov ping | 17:03 |
| redixin | sup | 17:03 |
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| andreykurilin_ | boris-42: hey! again:) | 17:03 |
| msdubov | Hi | 17:03 |
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| meteorfox | hi | 17:03 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's wait a bit | 17:05 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Rally python34 support finally! | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin_: hi there | 17:07 |
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| andreykurilin_ | yeah! | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin_: redixin thank you guys for working on this! | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | redixin: thank you for making our CI do functional tests against py34 env | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin_: thank you for fixes of all issues =) | 17:08 |
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| boris-42 | I hope somebody will use it=) | 17:08 |
| andreykurilin_ | heh, me too | 17:08 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Rally verify as control plane for all kinds of in tree tests | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | I made blogpost: http://boris-42.me/rally-verfiy-as-the-control-plane-for-gabbi-tempest-in-tree-functional-tests/ | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | As well put email in mailing list | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/openstack/operators/45172 | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | I believe that this functionality will save the world =) | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: btw are you using rally verify? | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: or you are using rally just to benchmark stuff? | 17:12 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: I'm benchmarking things with it | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: ah ok | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | Heh yfried is sleeping I believe | 17:13 |
| cdent | boris-42: even with the addition of that blog post (which I don't think you linked from your email) I'm still not understanding quite how gabbi fits in here? | 17:14 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: but, I want to use it later to check it meet certain SLAs | 17:14 |
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| cdent | I think the disconnect comes from the fact that I never thought of it as a way of "running all tests against your cloud". Instead its specifically for testing API correctness. | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so rally verify is running tempest * | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: our you are talking not about Rally SLA? | 17:15 |
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| boris-42 | cdent: thank you for joining meeting | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | cdent: so let me try to expalin | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | cdent: typical users like me=) are lazy=) | 17:16 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: yeah, I was talking about Rally SLA | 17:16 |
| fungi | just a heads up, you did #startmeting rather than #startmeeting | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | fungi: fail=) | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | fungi: thank you | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:17 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 17:17:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:17 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:17 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:17 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:17 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Rally verify as control plane for all kinds of in tree tests | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally verify as control plane for all kinds of in tree tests (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:17 | |
| boris-42 | cdent: so I have somewhere real OpenStack installation | 17:17 |
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| boris-42 | I would like to check that developers and MOS patches didn't change anything in API | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | and would like to run in-tree tests from Ceilometer against this MOS installation | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | how can I do this? | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | Download ceilometer, learn how to run gabbi, how to configure it, parse results, do some stuff | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | then work on script that will automate this stuf | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | cdent: ^ so instead of making this, let's just do this automation in Rally like we did for tempest | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | cdent: makes sense? | 17:19 |
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| cdent | I see where you're coming from, and I think having a way to do that in a unified fashion across the various projects will be handy. Are you saying rally will handle even the download step? | 17:21 |
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| boris-42 | cdent: download/install/running/parsing/storing results | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | cdent: and future work with results | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | cdent: like comparing/trending/generating html reports and so on | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | cdent: this functionality is mostly implemented, but it's a bit hardcoded to tempest | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | the idea is just to refactor a bit stuff, that will allow to use any tool | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | like gabbit | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | gabii* | 17:23 |
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| cdent | at the moment gabbi is called from within tox targets, so would you just manage a list of tox targets or do some kind of discovery? | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | cdent: I belive we can analyze tox.ini | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | cdent: to discover targets | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | cdent: or even more bruteforce | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | cdent: have default value that can be passed | 17:25 |
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| cdent | Okay, this all makes quite a bit more sense now | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | cdent: great) | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | Any questions? | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's move to the next topic | 17:27 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: I wonder how cloudcafe https://github.com/stackforge/cloudroast could integrate with this | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so I talk with those guys | 17:28 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: written by Rackspace, it was intended to be better than tempest | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: in integrates in the same way | 17:28 |
| meteorfox | and to replace it, but never caught on, at least in the community, we use it here for everthing | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: we need to do the same changes in rally like for gabbi and other projects | 17:28 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: alright, sounds good | 17:29 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: great | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | okay let's move to the next topic | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | #topic THE NEW constant runner | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "THE NEW constant runner (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:30 | |
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| boris-42 | We fully refactored how constant runner works | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | Now it starts N workers (where N is amount of CPU) and uses in each worker threads to create load | 17:31 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: do you have the link to the review? | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: sure | 17:31 |
| meteorfox | thanks | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155225/ | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: so now you can generate big load =) | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: I tried 1000 threads and it works perfectly fine | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | any questions?) | 17:33 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: it uses multiprocessing.Process? | 17:34 |
| arcimboldo | I think it would be useful to also have a command line option or configuration option to decide how many process to create | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: yep | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | arcimboldo: what is the case for that?) | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | arcimboldo: it's easy to add, just curios | 17:34 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: so what do you mean that you tried 1000 threads then? | 17:35 |
| arcimboldo | just in case someone is running rally on a machine where other services are running | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: I just put concurrency: 1000 and it worked well | 17:35 |
| meteorfox | 1000 process? | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: read the begging=) | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: we refactored constant load to not use only Processes | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: it starts AMOUNT_OF_CORES Processes and then make load using Threads | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: I have 4 cores so it creates 4 processes each of them generated 250 threads | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: and it worked well | 17:36 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: ok, cool. those threads will be GIL bound right? | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | arcimboldo: good case | 17:36 |
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| meteorfox | but not the processes | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | arcimboldo: I will add it to wishlist this case | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | arcimboldo: I will add this case to wishlist** | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | english so hard=) | 17:37 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: it pretty much creates 4 interpreters, and they communicate over IPC | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: yep | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: they communicated only master-worker | 17:38 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: right, with the join and the queue | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so for benchmarking things that are taking > 100ms it's quite good=) | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | choice=) | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: in case of OpenStack where things are run for seconds and minutes | 17:39 |
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| boris-42 | it's perfectly fine=) | 17:40 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: right. I understand | 17:41 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: it'd be interesting how consistent can Rally be, at high number of threads | 17:42 |
| meteorfox | to see* | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/rally/+bug/1430461 | 17:42 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1430461 in Rally "Add to constant and rps runneres limits for maximun Core usage" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | arcimboldo: ^ | 17:43 |
| arcimboldo | thnx boris-42 | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so actually we will integrate rally profiler | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: that will answer on questions what is the overhead | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: in any case Runners are plugins they can be rewritten from scratch | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: at any moment without affecting rest of the code | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: like we just did=) | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | Any other questions? | 17:44 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: yeah. that's true. About the RPS runner, is that non-blocking? | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: non-blocking? | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: you mean will it create more and more threads?) | 17:45 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: say I want to model an open workload, that is I want a consistent injection rate, that regardless if the cloud is slowing down, it will keep that rate | 17:46 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: usually I've seen that implemented with async io, where the request is decoupled from the response/result | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: yep | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: that is why we did rps runner | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: it just runs every second more "rps" threads | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: actually every interval where interval is 1/rps | 17:47 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: ok, that sounds a little heavy though. | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: actually aix is working on finish patch from jlk | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140150/ | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: that limits maximum amount of concurrent working threads | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: as well you have --stop-on-sla-failure key for rally task start | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: http://boris-42.me/rally-tricks-stop-load-before-your-openstack-goes-wrong/ | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: ^ so if things go mad it will stop load at all | 17:49 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: ok ok | 17:50 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: anyway, that's all I had thanks | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: great let's move to next topic | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | #topic Rally in tree-specs | 17:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally in tree-specs (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:50 | |
| boris-42 | Recently we merged patch that adds Rally in-tree specs and test them | 17:50 |
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| boris-42 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162433/ | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | ^ we will use them for all big refactoring of Rally | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | or new features | 17:51 |
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| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159065/ this is the first spec | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | Any questions? ) | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | redixin: meteorfox andreykurilin_ msdubov_ ^ | 17:52 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42: What should be added next to the specs? | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: hm? | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: you mean what specs we should add or? | 17:52 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: so, are these like acceptance criteria tests? | 17:52 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42: yes | 17:53 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: or acceptance tests | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so we have unit test that checks format of new spec | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: like if there are missing headers or not rst or too longs lines | 17:54 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: unit test will fail | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: your questions is not clear for me=) | 17:54 |
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| boris-42 | question* | 17:54 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: ok, so rally will just make sure the specs follows some kind of format? | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: yep | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: this format https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/doc/specs/template.rst | 17:56 |
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| msdubov_ | boris-42: Should we add any specs after this patch? | 17:56 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: oh ok. I thought these were like Ruby's Capybara/Cucumber tests | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: we will see | 17:57 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov_: at least we will do discussion of new Input format | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | in specs | 17:58 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: isn't that a little over-kill. why not a simply python script, called by a git hook? | 17:58 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: unit tests are simpler | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: and unifed | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | we need to finish meeting | 17:59 |
| boris-42 | see you in rally chat | 17:59 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 17:59:11 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-10-17.17.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-10-17.17.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-10-17.17.log.html | 17:59 |
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| breton | hello keystone | 17:59 |
| ayoung | breton, we are all still filing in | 17:59 |
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| ayoung | Let's do this! | 18:01 |
| henrynash | it’s that tme… | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ Am I an hour late??? | 18:01 |
| * morganfainberg lets dolphm chair. Stuck in traffic. | 18:01 | |
| stevedroid | o/ | 18:01 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:02 |
| stevedroid | Go Dolph go | 18:02 |
| henrynash | topol: no, you are fashionably on time | 18:02 |
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| jamielennox | o/ | 18:03 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:03 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 18:03 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 18:03:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong, fmarco76 | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | hi | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | incase anyone is thrown off by dst.. | 18:04 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: thanks | 18:04 |
| amakarov | o/ | 18:05 |
| stevedroid | Lbragstad, i was | 18:05 |
| raildo | hi | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | I think this is the first time I've actually showed up for a keystone meeting after a time change | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | o/ hello | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | is missing CEO of IBM meeting for this! | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: =) | 18:05 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #topic Kilo-3 deadline | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo-3 deadline (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| dolphm | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 18:05 |
| dolphm | Feature proposal freeze was last week, meaning that it's now too late to propose implementations of new features for Kilo | 18:05 |
| dolphm | So now it's time for everyone to start putting review focus on what's already in review! | 18:05 |
| dolphm | Our next deadline is actual the feature freeze: March 19th | 18:06 |
| dolphm | So the clock is ticking on polishing and merging final implementations of features for Kilo. | 18:06 |
| ayoung | tic tic tic booom! | 18:06 |
| dolphm | And knowing the history with our gate, we should really be aiming for March 17th | 18:06 |
| dolphm | Because transient failures, gate load, etc, etc. | 18:06 |
| bknudson | gate has been really stable lately. | 18:07 |
| bknudson | (due to a lot of hard work) | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | If you're looking for something to review, I'd point you to our list of release blocking reviews, but I just broke it last night and am working on getting it going again. | 18:07 |
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| stevedroid | I havent gotten neutroned in a while | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | A link is in the #openstack-keystone /topic | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: don't jinx it | 18:07 |
| bknudson | first rule of gate failures is don't talk about gate failures. | 18:08 |
| dolphm | Any questions on priority for the next 7-9 days? | 18:08 |
| henrynash | never mention the F word when it is within earshot | 18:08 |
| bknudson | if only DB2 CI was as stable! | 18:08 |
| ayoung | Would like to make sure https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142573/ is on that list | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: gate stability is already starting to drop though, compared it where it was a few weeks ago (around 96% of gate jobs were passing at one point!) | 18:09 |
| dolphm | bknudson: it's now back down to 88% and failing as far as i've seen | 18:09 |
| bknudson | :( | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i'll make sure it's on the list of release blockers | 18:10 |
| ayoung | thanks | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | any other reviews that should be considered release-blocking for kilo-3? | 18:10 |
| bknudson | can we pile on release blockers? | 18:10 |
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| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117372/ | 18:11 |
| dolphm | bknudson: hopefully only things in direct support of targeted blueprints | 18:11 |
| henrynash | samueldmq, rodrigo: is the lsit_assignments performance one on the list? | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | henrynash, it wasnt anymore | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, +2A | 18:11 |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142200/ | 18:11 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: keystoneclient falls outside the release process, but that's a good one | 18:11 |
| bknudson | oh, these are both keystoneclient | 18:11 |
| ayoung | I thought I had done that already | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | henrynash, I'd like to see it on that list again ... but I talked to morganfainberg and time is short .... | 18:11 |
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| henrynash | samueldmq: ok…just checking | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: but we're hoping to do a release of ksc/ksm soon | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | for kc I'd like this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150078/ | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | henrynash, and that is a long chain, but we could at least put it at the end | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | we will want to cut new versions and bump g-r before final release | 18:12 |
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| bknudson | that was it... the rest of mine are bugs. | 18:12 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: ++ doing two releases before kilo is final would be good. one near kilo-3 and one more around stable/kilo | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | henrynash, 'Improve List Role Assignments Filters Performance' https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137202/ | 18:12 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i guess we'll get to release blocking bugs after next week :) | 18:13 |
| ayoung | OK...I'll be in code reveiw mode for the next few days. | 18:13 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++++ | 18:13 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: yep, the k3 one will probably be in g-r, final probably packaged | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | rodrigods, can you take back your patch for whitelists and get the comments in, so I can review it | 18:13 |
| dstanek | yeah, i think i got patchset pushing out of my system now | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, yes | 18:14 |
| ayoung | We really need to make sure we have a client review push scheduled in. | 18:14 |
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| rodrigods | ayoung, at least, I can try, will signalize otherwise | 18:14 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: henrynash: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137202/ isn't targeted to kilo-3, so i'll leave that one to morganfainberg | 18:14 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, fair enough | 18:14 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: yep, understand | 18:14 |
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| dolphm | alright, let's move on to agenda items -- it's hard to discuss release blockers when the current list isn't available :) (sorry!) | 18:15 |
| dolphm | #topic JSON Home | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "JSON Home (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:15 | |
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| morganfainberg | It isn't targeted because it's a nice to have. | 18:15 |
| dolphm | to quote the agenda summary: | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | Fyi. | 18:15 |
| dolphm | "Support for experimental/disabled. When we approved the spec for moving away from extensions, we specified that resources might be appear as "experimental" (if they were still maturing) or "disabled" (if that features had been turned off by a config switch) in the JSON Home response. Concern, however, has been raised as to whether this is a valid way of using JSON Home. The new domain-config-database support is the first | 18:15 |
| dolphm | new resources to use this....before we merge its JSON Home support, let's make sure we are still happy with this approach." | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: o/ all yours | 18:15 |
| henrynash | thx | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: ack | 18:15 |
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| henrynash | of so this is to revist the issue of how our resources/APIs are repreented via JSON Home in various sceanrios | 18:16 |
| henrynash | as per teh comemnt above, I’d *thought* we had agreed we would use the hints property of a resource to indicate its status | 18:16 |
| bknudson | I'm ok with "hints" for deprecated. | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | My only thought is disabled is not a classification. | 18:17 |
| henrynash | (see paragraoh starting around line 70 in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133809/8/specs/kilo/replace_extensions.rst) | 18:17 |
| dolphm | is the question whether or not a disabled or experimental feature appears in a JSON Home response? | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | Experimental and deprecated are classifiers same as stable. | 18:17 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg: well, teh json home spec actually even suggest using “gone” to indicate an API that was supported once….. | 18:17 |
| ayoung | disabled seems different. | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | Disabled is not. | 18:18 |
| henrynash | dolphm: yes…. | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: Gone is an intruiging choice | 18:18 |
| bknudson | I think it makes for more complicated clients to force them to check for "disabled"... they shouldn't need to do this. It should be handled by the server. | 18:19 |
| topol | bknudson +++ | 18:19 |
| dolphm | #link http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-json-home-03#section-4.10 | 18:19 |
| dolphm | we're not going to return a proper 410 Gone for a disabled extension, i assume | 18:20 |
| henrynash | bknudson: well they don’t have to check disabled, (the server will return an error if they try and call the API on the resouce), but the json home hinst tells them why | 18:20 |
| henrynash | dolphm: no | 18:20 |
| henrynash | dolphm: we would retunrn 404 (I think) | 18:20 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i'd support a 404, "server is oblivious of the thing you're asking for" (but i think morganfainberg disagrees?) | 18:21 |
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| dolphm | stevedroid: morganfainberg: i think ya'll were discussing 403, as if disabling a new API was a policy change? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | I would assume that the priamry use of the JSON home is to generate other operations, specifically visual web for talking to Keystone. If the resource is gone, it should not show up in an enumeration. Its not so much looking for the resoruce itself as it is generating a form, where that resource would be one field. DIsabled would be vary useful to put a greyed out button for something that was no longer there, but the user migh | 18:22 |
| ayoung | t be looking for | 18:22 |
| ayoung | but if there is no way to enable it... | 18:22 |
| henrynash | I guess my larger issue is that I *thought* the point of moving aeway from the course extension mechaism, is so that we have a more robust API for which you can also get JSON HOme info about, even if the resource you want is expermimetnal/disabled/gone etc. | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: that's my real preference. no means of discovery + 404 if you try and skip discovery | 18:22 |
| bknudson | provide a GET /v3?disabled | 18:22 |
| ayoung | can we say "gone" is "experimental" | 18:23 |
| dolphm | bknudson: IT'S A TRAP! | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | let's fail fast on this... | 18:23 |
| henrynash | ayoung: definitely not | 18:23 |
| ayoung | heh | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: gone has subsequent behaviors tied to it | 18:23 |
| ayoung | right, so if we do it, we are committed | 18:23 |
| dolphm | exoectation of 410 Gone | 18:23 |
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| dolphm | expectation* | 18:23 |
| ayoung | but if we don't, people will code around us | 18:23 |
| dstanek | 410 doesn't seem right for this | 18:23 |
| bknudson | 410 would indicate that it used to be there. | 18:24 |
| henrynash | so question 1) should we use json home hints status on a per resouce basis to indicate any variance from “stable” | 18:24 |
| breton | 410 would mean that it will never be there | 18:24 |
| dolphm | i'm not sure i can make an argument for 403, but does anyone want to try? | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | i like 410 when we *remove* an API | 18:24 |
| dolphm | breton: ++ | 18:24 |
| bknudson | I think we should use the hints status for deprecated. that's in the spec. | 18:24 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: ++ agreed | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | when we disable, i'd advocate a 403 | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | and a 404 if it doesn't exist | 18:25 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: or soft delete an object | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | and never has | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | which we don't do | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, sure | 18:25 |
| bknudson | and we could use gone when it's past deprecation and removed. | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | this is specific to APIs not resources | 18:25 |
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| henrynash | bkndudson: if we got experimental added to the json home spec, would you support that? | 18:25 |
| SpamapS | o | 18:26 |
| dolphm | bknudson: you're assuming you can actually remove previously-stable APIs? | 18:26 |
| SpamapS | o | 18:26 |
| ayoung | Let me suggest that we code that up as a change to the API spec and document it? | 18:26 |
| bknudson | dolphm: right... that never happens anyways so don't need to worry about it. | 18:26 |
| bknudson | henrynash: I'm also ok with experimental... | 18:26 |
| bknudson | I'd prefer /v3?experimental | 18:26 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: i like the opt in | 18:26 |
| dolphm | or even ?unstable | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | we could have a separate resource for experimental, too... e.g., versioning | 18:27 |
| bknudson | I mean a separate relationship. | 18:27 |
| henrynash | so the specific review this is affect is: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162484/4/api/v3/identity-api-v3.rst | 18:27 |
| ayoung | Content type | 18:27 |
| henrynash | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162484/4/api/v3/identity-api-v3.rst | 18:27 |
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| henrynash | where I had suggested that the new domain-config APIs should be marked as expermental (I;d be OK if we wanted to make them stable, but not maing that assumption) | 18:28 |
| bknudson | henrynash: what's the argument for experimental? | 18:29 |
| bknudson | you planning to change the API? | 18:29 |
| henrynash | bknudson: no…but in the spec for moving away from extensions we agreed that by default we would make new APIs experiemtnal for a cycle… | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, not planned but it allows us to if needed | 18:30 |
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| henrynash | …with an option to agree to marking as stable within a cycle if we so chose | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, basically it doesnt' lock us into a "stable" API the moment it is merged | 18:30 |
| bknudson | as an example of using a relationship to indicate experimental, put a version on the rel: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-identity/3/rel/domain_config/v0.1 | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | it gives us a cycle to say "yes" or "no" or "needs more work" | 18:30 |
| bknudson | then if you come up with a new API use http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-identity/3/rel/domain_config/v1.0 | 18:31 |
| henrynash | that certainly an option….hwoever… | 18:31 |
| ayoung | and it keeps us from changing the URL from OS-TRUSTS when we decide to promote something | 18:31 |
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| morganfainberg | fwiw, i think microversioning is a trainwreck. | 18:31 |
| bknudson | you want me to code up support for ?experimental ? | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | but i'm willing tochange my mind once we see more from nova on it | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | and how it works out | 18:32 |
| henrynash | I woudl have though that as we mature Open Stack, people will want to be able to check clietns to see if tehy use expermiemental APIs, or deprecated ones….and json home seems the obvious way an automated analyser would do this | 18:32 |
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| henrynash | as oppsied to knowing that v0.1 meant experimental and v1.0 meant atsbale | 18:33 |
| bknudson | check clients? | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: ++ trainwreck | 18:33 |
| henrynash | I’m thinking “applications that talk to the OpenStack API”…..I can envisage certains shops only allowing apps that talk to stable APIs etc. | 18:34 |
| gyee | jamielennox is smoking something :) | 18:34 |
| henrynash | ok, let’s try and net this out | 18:34 |
| bknudson | I think that can be done with /v3?experimental. | 18:34 |
| ayoung | OK...moving on? | 18:35 |
| henrynash | when we approve dthe spec for removing extensions we said we woudl use json home for disabled & experimental…. | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | gyee: just slow this morning | 18:35 |
| henrynash | do we agree or disagre? | 18:35 |
| gyee | agree | 18:35 |
| bknudson | ... thought we agreed that specs aren't written in stone. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | let's vote it? | 18:36 |
| dolphm | alrighty... | 18:36 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:36 |
| henrynash | bkndison: absoilutely!!! that;s why I brought it up here! | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | experimental agree, why put disabled in home? | 18:36 |
| dolphm | henrynash: want a quick vote? | 18:36 |
| henrynash | dolphmL sure | 18:36 |
| henrynash | jamielennox: the argument woudl be so a cleint coudl work out WHY an API is returning an error (oh..it;s just diabled in this installation”) | 18:37 |
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| jamielennox | henrynash: wouldn't that be the same as the resource being missing in jsonhome? | 18:37 |
| henrynash | but I’d be Ok if we only wanted experimental/stable/deprecated for now | 18:38 |
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| henrynash | jammielennix: maybe it’s gone for ever? | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | assuming you went to jsonhome first rather than use it as an error checker | 18:38 |
| bknudson | we publish all the relationships, so if you want to know just check which rels are available and which aren't. | 18:38 |
| bknudson | am I supposed to call up dolphm and tell him to turn an extension on for me? | 18:38 |
| henrynash | dolphm: so if disabled is contentions, let’s vote on json home supporting depreacted/experimental/stable | 18:39 |
| ayoung | henrynash, that is kind of what I was implying before. We can split these into two reviews, and make sure we get the first part through | 18:40 |
| ayoung | bknudson, a tool needs to talk to multiple keystone servers, and needs to know what features are enabled on each | 18:40 |
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| bknudson | JSON Home already shows that. | 18:40 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i'm trying to figure out how to phrase the vote so that it's simple... | 18:41 |
| bknudson | there's a security concern with telling your clients too much about your server already. | 18:41 |
| gyee | have to *tools guys* chime in, horizon, CLI | 18:41 |
| henrynash | #startvote should we refelect a status of stable(teh default), experimental and deprecated in the JSON Home response on our resources | 18:41 |
| gyee | s/to/the/ | 18:41 |
| openstack | Only the meeting chair may start a vote. | 18:41 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: that presumes that they should appear at all? | 18:42 |
| henrynash | dolphm: if so, vote no ?!!? | 18:42 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: #startvote needs options to be enumerated, and voters need to match the options exactly | 18:43 |
| henrynash | dolphm: hinsts: {‘status’: <status>} is part of the json hom spec | 18:43 |
| stevemar | get out of here stevedroid you imposter | 18:43 |
| dolphm | henrynash: how we advertise stable features is a given | 18:43 |
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| bknudson | We could have a vote just for deprecated... that's in the JSON Home spec. | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, thats fine. | 18:44 |
| bknudson | and a separate one for experimental. | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | i'd be ok with adhering to the spec. | 18:44 |
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| henrynash | so question 1) : should we refelect a status of deprecated in the JSON Home response on our resources | 18:44 |
| dolphm | bknudson: so, yes/no, should deprecated/experimental features appear in json home at all? | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, do deprecated 1st | 18:44 |
| henrynash | dolphm: that;s do | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | then expirimental | 18:44 |
| henrynash | agreed | 18:44 |
| dolphm | alrighty | 18:44 |
| dolphm | #startvote Should *deprecated* API features appear in JSON-Home at all? yes, no | 18:44 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Should *deprecated* API features appear in JSON-Home at all? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 18:44 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:44 |
| bknudson | yes | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| bknudson | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| gyee | #vote yes | 18:45 |
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| lbragstad | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| dolphm | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| ayoung | #vote , | 18:45 |
| henrynash | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| openstack | ayoung: , is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 18:45 |
| ayoung | damn | 18:45 |
| ayoung | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| amakarov | yes | 18:45 |
| gyee | ayoung, that , looks like a thumbs down | 18:45 |
| amakarov | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| dolphm | #votestatus | 18:45 |
| dstanek | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| dolphm | #showvote | 18:46 |
| openstack | yes (10): gyee, lbragstad, ayoung, morganfainberg, bknudson, dstanek, dolphm, jamielennox, amakarov, henrynash | 18:46 |
| dstanek | they have to be in there if we claim to be RESTful! otherwise deprecating them is the same as removing them | 18:46 |
| dolphm | ending in 10 seconds... | 18:46 |
| dolphm | #endvote | 18:46 |
| openstack | Voted on "Should *deprecated* API features appear in JSON-Home at all?" Results are | 18:46 |
| openstack | yes (10): gyee, lbragstad, ayoung, morganfainberg, bknudson, dstanek, dolphm, jamielennox, amakarov, henrynash | 18:47 |
| ayoung | #vote \m/_ (^^) _\m/ | 18:47 |
| dolphm | #startvote Should *disabled-by-deployer* API features appear in JSON-Home at all? yes, no | 18:47 |
| topol | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Should *disabled-by-deployer* API features appear in JSON-Home at all? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 18:47 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:47 |
| bknudson | #vote no | 18:47 |
| dolphm | #vote no | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | #vote no | 18:47 |
| dstanek | #vote no | 18:47 |
| gyee | #vote no | 18:47 |
| breton | #vote no | 18:47 |
| henrynash | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| ayoung | #vote maybe | 18:48 |
| openstack | ayoung: maybe is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 18:48 |
| * morganfainberg is having connection issues | 18:48 | |
| lbragstad | #vote no | 18:48 |
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| jamielennox | if nothing else if we start with them not appearing, it's much easier to add them later than try and remove them | 18:48 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so if we change our mind on this one, we can add it in again later. RIght? | 18:48 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: voting on whether *disabled-by-deployer* API features appear in JSON-Home at all | 18:48 |
| henrynash | ayoung: sure, yep…happy to adhere to teh vote | 18:48 |
| dolphm | #showvote | 18:49 |
| openstack | yes (2): henrynash, topol | 18:49 |
| ayoung | #vote I'm a coward | 18:49 |
| openstack | no (7): gyee, dstanek, bknudson, lbragstad, dolphm, jamielennox, breton | 18:49 |
| openstack | ayoung: I'm a coward is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 18:49 |
| ayoung | damn | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | #vote no | 18:49 |
| dolphm | ending in 10 seconds... | 18:49 |
| ayoung | #vote no | 18:49 |
| dolphm | #endvote | 18:49 |
| openstack | Voted on "Should *disabled-by-deployer* API features appear in JSON-Home at all?" Results are | 18:49 |
| openstack | yes (2): henrynash, topol | 18:49 |
| openstack | no (9): gyee, dstanek, ayoung, morganfainberg, bknudson, lbragstad, dolphm, jamielennox, breton | 18:49 |
| dolphm | #startvote Should enabled-by-deployer *experimental* features appear in JSON-Home? yes, no | 18:49 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Should enabled-by-deployer *experimental* features appear in JSON-Home? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 18:49 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:49 |
| henrynash | #vote yes | 18:49 |
| breton | #vote yes | 18:49 |
| dolphm | #vote yes | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | #vote yes | 18:49 |
| jamielennox | #vote yes | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | #vote yes | 18:49 |
| gyee | #vote no | 18:50 |
| dstanek | #vote yes | 18:50 |
| bknudson | does this mean without /v3?experimental? | 18:50 |
| dolphm | bknudson: presentation doesn't matter yet, just starting with the boolean | 18:50 |
| bknudson | #vote yes | 18:50 |
| henrynash | I’m assuming we *would* mark it as such | 18:50 |
| gyee | what's a client going to do with experimental? | 18:50 |
| henrynash | gyee: use it | 18:50 |
| amakarov | #vote yes | 18:50 |
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| gyee | at who's discretion? client or user? | 18:50 |
| dolphm | gyee: call it if specified to opt-into unstable features? | 18:50 |
| bknudson | you might not want your application to use experimental APIs. | 18:51 |
| dolphm | gyee: user, hopefully | 18:51 |
| henrynash | gyee: if that’s ok in teh context (i.e. in a military application, probably not) | 18:51 |
| dolphm | it's like calling the client with --insecure | 18:51 |
| gyee | arrh k | 18:51 |
| gyee | make sense now | 18:51 |
| dolphm | --i-know-this-is-a-bad-idea-but-i-want-unstable | 18:51 |
| gyee | dolphm, yeah, make sense | 18:51 |
| dolphm | #showvote | 18:51 |
| openstack | yes (9): lbragstad, morganfainberg, bknudson, dstanek, dolphm, jamielennox, amakarov, henrynash, breton | 18:51 |
| openstack | no (1): gyee | 18:51 |
| dolphm | ending it 10 seconds ... | 18:51 |
| henrynash | gyee: but that’s the point of giving the status..soit can know | 18:51 |
| gyee | changing my vote | 18:51 |
| dolphm | gyee: go for it | 18:52 |
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| dolphm | gyee: only your last vote counts | 18:52 |
| gyee | #vote yes | 18:52 |
| dolphm | #endvote | 18:52 |
| openstack | Voted on "Should enabled-by-deployer *experimental* features appear in JSON-Home?" Results are | 18:52 |
| openstack | yes (10): gyee, lbragstad, morganfainberg, bknudson, dstanek, dolphm, jamielennox, amakarov, henrynash, breton | 18:52 |
| dolphm | okay so in summary: | 18:52 |
| dolphm | We agree that: A) Deprecated API features should, somehow, appear in JSON-Home. B) *Disabled-by-deployer* API features should NOT appear in JSON-Home at all. C) Enabled-by-deployer *experimental* features should, somehow, appear in JSON-Home. | 18:53 |
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| henrynash | ok, great, that gives me what I need to know - will process accordingly, thanks to all | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: the *how* for A and C are the interesting part :) | 18:54 |
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| henrynash | i yield the floor with 6 mins to go :-) | 18:54 |
| dolphm | henrynash: maybe we can enumerate the How options in advance for next meeting? | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:54 |
| dolphm | henrynash: stick them on the agenda | 18:54 |
| henrynash | dolphm: sure | 18:54 |
| dolphm | #agree Deprecated API features should, somehow, appear in JSON-Home. | 18:55 |
| dolphm | #agree *Disabled-by-deployer* API features should NOT appear in JSON-Home at all. | 18:55 |
| dolphm | #agree Enabled-by-deployer *experimental* features should, somehow, appear in JSON-Home. | 18:55 |
| dolphm | i think those will appear in the meeting notes | 18:55 |
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| dolphm | #topic keystone vs Keystone | 18:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystone vs Keystone (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:55 | |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162561/ | 18:55 |
| dolphm | breton: o/ all yours | 18:55 |
| breton | how do we call keystone? | 18:55 |
| breton | in several reviews I saw people nitting that it should be "Keystone" and not "keystone" everywhere. | 18:55 |
| breton | now there is that patch | 18:55 |
| jamielennox | henrynash: as an early vote it would be nice if it was somehow in the json home doc so that i can cache the whole doc with one call | 18:55 |
| breton | in that review there is a link to wiki.o.o which suggests to use "keystone" | 18:55 |
| dolphm | breton: the official project name is lowercased, "keystone" | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | I think we should stick with the doc naming convention. | 18:56 |
| henrynash | jamielennox:agree | 18:56 |
| bknudson | makes it easier to write the docs | 18:56 |
| dolphm | bknudson: is that lowercased? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | Keystone is a proper noun | 18:56 |
| bknudson | yes, the doc convention is lowercase. | 18:56 |
| bknudson | not sure why, but that's what they document. | 18:56 |
| ayoung | the English language convention is that those are capitalized | 18:56 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: but it's also just a code name | 18:56 |
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| bknudson | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Conventions#Service_and_project_names | 18:57 |
| dstanek | i mentioned in the review to bring this here - because we've accepting commits to make Keystone the project and keystone the code | 18:57 |
| bknudson | OpenStack Identity | 18:57 |
| amakarov | dolphm, ++ 'Identity' is capitalized | 18:57 |
| dstanek | now patch is kinda going the other way | 18:57 |
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| dolphm | the program names *are* capitalized in title case (OpenStack Identity) | 18:57 |
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| bknudson | I didn't know about the style guide until it was pointed out to me. | 18:57 |
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| stevemar | maybe they don't want code names capitalized for legal reasons, in case other companies have them trademarked (like quantum) | 18:58 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i didn't know there was a solid recommendation on the issue until recently | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Yeah, companies never trademark things starting with lowercase letters | 18:59 |
| gyee | iPhone? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | Unless it is an i, then you need to capitalize the second letter | 18:59 |
| ayoung | or an e | 18:59 |
| gyee | heh | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, unless it's cisco, then it was IPhone iirc | 18:59 |
| dolphm | maybe we should always use the repo path, like openstack/keystone instead of Keystone or keystone | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, ++ | 18:59 |
| ayoung | use an URL | 18:59 |
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| bknudson | we could always use OpenStack Identity | 18:59 |
| ayoung | http://..... | 19:00 |
| dolphm | bknudson: but these docs are specifically referring to one project in the program | 19:00 |
| ayoung | time is up | 19:00 |
| gyee | what happen to AAA? | 19:00 |
| dolphm | bknudson: can't escape that :) | 19:00 |
| ayoung | dolphm, care to clear the floor | 19:00 |
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| dolphm | gyee: no one outside of this group likes it | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | we're over time | 19:00 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| gyee | damn | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 19:00:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-10-18.03.html | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | take this to -keystone | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-10-18.03.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-10-18.03.log.html | 19:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
| AJaeger_ | good evening! | 19:01 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | hi | 19:01 |
| jeblair | hi infra folks | 19:01 |
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| mrmartin | hi | 19:01 |
| fungi | yo | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 19:01:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-03-19.01.html | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair nibalizer work through openstackinfra-httpd publishing | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair fix openstackinfra account on puppetforge | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | let's just go ahead and get those out of the way ^ | 19:01 |
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| nibalizer | o/ | 19:01 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
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| SpamapS | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i'm going to try to do password recovery on the puppetforge account | 19:02 |
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| krtaylor | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | thanks. i agree the one in hiera is invalid | 19:02 |
| tristanC | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | last week we established gerrit topics for each effort | 19:03 |
| jeblair | i'm going to link to them individually later | 19:03 |
| jeblair | but also, here is a query to show you all open changes for all of our current efforts | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #info "status:open AND (topic:enable_swift OR topic:dib-nodepool OR topic:zanata OR topic:downstream-puppet OR topic:askbot-site OR topic: gerrit-upgrade)" | 19:03 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: still in progress, ya? | 19:04 |
| jeblair | so there's something we can all use to try to run that list of changes down to zero each week | 19:04 |
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| nibalizer | oop i was scrolled up | 19:04 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: yep, will work on that this afternoon | 19:04 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| asselin_ | hi | 19:04 |
| jeblair | i should probably change these to be status:open as well | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:05 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 19:05 |
| clarkb | for swift logs the outstanding work is double checking that we have up to date images (we should) then I can approve those two open changes | 19:05 |
| jhesketh | So nothing new here as far as I'm concerned. We just need to turn on more jobs to swift and keep rolling | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | er I guess the second needs review too | 19:05 |
| jeblair | clarkb, jhesketh: the outstanding issues with ux are resolved? | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think the only remaining one is how to display the devstack gate help footer | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jeblair: but those changes don't touch d-g jobs yet | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jhesketh: ^ is that correct? | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: agreed, it seems like we should be able to proceed without that. | 19:06 |
| jhesketh | Yeah that's the only thing missing for parity as far as I know | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | for the footer, should we have the d-g jobs generate their own index pages? | 19:07 |
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| jhesketh | My opinion is yes, but sdague and others disagree | 19:07 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: where can i view this discussion? | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I was starting to wonder if we could remove the help footer compeltely and instead try to link off to docs within the jobs themselves? but that may be too late in the deciphering of the logs | 19:08 |
| fungi | as i recall there were pros and cons to having the content frozen at the time when the job was run as oppsed to up to date with some reference copy | 19:08 |
| jhesketh | I think having them generated and stored will mean the documentation will stay correct as things may change | 19:08 |
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| clarkb | jhesketh: ya that is a nice benefit | 19:08 |
| jhesketh | It was irc a while ago but I can take that on notice | 19:08 |
| fungi | assuming it was correct to begin with | 19:08 |
| fungi | and harder to correct later if it was not | 19:08 |
| jhesketh | fungi: yep, that's a good summary thanks | 19:09 |
| * SergeyLukjanov lurking | 19:09 | |
| clarkb | OH! I know | 19:09 |
| fungi | i don't feel strongly either way. would just as well we flipped a coin and went with it (or chose whichever is easier to implement and moved on) | 19:09 |
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| clarkb | I was thinking about expiry, should we set an expiration date on these logs before uploading them? | 19:10 |
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| clarkb | that way we don't have to work so hard later to clean them up | 19:10 |
| jeblair | clarkb: we can do that? | 19:10 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes, swift objects can have expiration dates iirc | 19:10 |
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| jhesketh | Yep, it's a swift feature | 19:10 |
| jeblair | clarkb: and tempurl passes that through? | 19:10 |
| clarkb | and I wanted to bring this up before we have a large amount of logs in swift | 19:10 |
| fungi | i was wondering what the plan was for limiting retention. that's awesome! | 19:10 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I am not sure about that | 19:10 |
| jeblair | fungi, jhesketh: i think there are some things we can generate during the job run that should not change, and would be best saved with the run. eg "nova logs are in nova.log". | 19:11 |
| jhesketh | jeblair: I don't think it's part of the hmac, I think you just set it as an extra header when posting | 19:11 |
| jeblair | fungi, jhesketh: other things like "here is how to use e-r" might change over time. those we should perhaps just link to. | 19:11 |
| fungi | the only down side is it might be harder to extend/shrink that later if we change our minds about retention of already existing data? | 19:11 |
| clarkb | jhesketh: nice and easy then. we should probably consider getting that in early then before adding to those python jobs? | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | so i'd propose that for the d-g footer, we generate some of it in the job itself, and for things that may change over time not related to that specific run, we provide external links. | 19:12 |
| clarkb | anyways don't need to spend a bunch of time here on that especially since we seem to agree it is a good idea | 19:12 |
| fungi | but yeah, i expect if we really want to update it later, we can do so by manually firing some mass update script | 19:12 |
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| jhesketh | fungi: I think we can update the meta data later | 19:12 |
| jeblair | two tasks: log expiry header and d-g footer. who want's em? :) | 19:13 |
| jhesketh | clarkb: depends if we mind cleaning up later or having a few old logs hang around | 19:13 |
| clarkb | I can poke at the expiry header | 19:13 |
| jhesketh | jeblair: I can | 19:13 |
| clarkb | or jhesketh :) | 19:13 |
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| clarkb | jhesketh: maybe we can look really quickly to see how much work expiry is and base our decision on that? | 19:13 |
| clarkb | jhesketh: if we can get that in today/tomorrow probably worht waiting | 19:13 |
| jeblair | #action jhesketh work on devstack-gate footer | 19:14 |
| krtaylor | actually expiration metadata cannot be changed later, the object must jut be deleted | 19:14 |
| krtaylor | just | 19:14 |
| jhesketh | clarkb: sounds good | 19:14 |
| jeblair | #action clarkb jhekseth set swift expiry data | 19:14 |
| jeblair | also, if we delete all the infra logs in swift, i'm okay with that. | 19:14 |
| jhesketh | krtaylor: oh interesting, thanks | 19:14 |
| krtaylor | it is initially set at object creation time | 19:14 |
| krtaylor | after that, it must just be deleted | 19:15 |
| krtaylor | but I wrote tools to do that :) | 19:15 |
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| jhesketh | krtaylor: I guess if we were desperate we could re push them | 19:15 |
| fungi | can new objects be created (copied) from old ones without having to download and upload again? | 19:15 |
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| fungi | anyway, i guess not critical to figure out such minutia in the meeting | 19:16 |
| jeblair | yeah, good questions, but lets look into them async | 19:16 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:16 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:16 | |
| jeblair | grr | 19:16 |
| krtaylor | jhesketh, it is just a matter of deleting anything that slips through the expire policy, once it is established, it takes care of itself | 19:16 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:16 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:dib-nodepool,n,z | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:16 | |
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| jeblair | my interest here is getting better nodepool testing | 19:17 |
| clarkb | there are several stacks of changes to nodepool up with this topic that add better testing | 19:17 |
| clarkb | its not comprehensive but is a good start to test some behaviors we have recently noticed | 19:17 |
| jeblair | i'd really like to get that in first because we keep breaking ourselves | 19:17 |
| clarkb | +1 | 19:17 |
| clarkb | especailly when we start thinking about moving to shade better testing will be very valuable | 19:18 |
| jeblair | also, ianw was going to work on yaml validation, unsure of progress there | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | i know mordred has been busy; anything else on this? | 19:18 |
| ianw | jeblair: out for review https://review.openstack.org/161952 <- will add job when that is approved | 19:18 |
| clarkb | its up for review, looks large because of the yaml involved but it should be reasonable | 19:18 |
| jeblair | ianw: neat! | 19:18 |
| clarkb | ianw: can you update the topic too? | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | ianw: to dib-nodepool so it shows up in the query jeblair posted | 19:19 |
| yolanda | i was working on nodepool-shade integration but no time last week | 19:19 |
| jeblair | there is a governance patch to move bindep into infra | 19:19 |
| ianw | clarkb: urg, i thought i specified that with -t to git review, will look into | 19:19 |
| jeblair | i think it will end up scheduled for next week's tc meeting | 19:19 |
| clarkb | ianw: you can set it in gerrit ui without pushing new patchset | 19:19 |
| ianw | clarkb: yep, done | 19:20 |
| clarkb | fungi: any thing in particular we should be looking at with the bindep stuff? | 19:20 |
| anteaya | jeblair: do you want to discuss agreeing to a downtime for that move, or wait on tc? | 19:20 |
| fungi | jeblair: cool. i'l strive to get most of my submitted and planned features implemented before we move bindep | 19:20 |
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| fungi | clarkb: i haven't revisited outstanding comments on my changes since i got home | 19:20 |
| fungi | i know i need to add some tests for some of it | 19:21 |
| jeblair | anteaya: let's wait | 19:21 |
| anteaya | jeblair: very good | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | My hope has been to develop a simple way to run a fake nova with a tmpfs-backed glance to point nodepool at for fast functional test runs. | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | SpamapS: aware of nova fakevirt driver? | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | But I haven't gotten beyond writing that down in a text file and breaking it up into tasks to figure out if it is even feasible or if there are other people working on the same thing. | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: yes that is the fake part I'd use. :) | 19:21 |
| jeblair | thought so, just checking :) | 19:22 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: also, ++ | 19:22 |
| fungi | glance needs a fake-i/o | 19:22 |
| SpamapS | fungi: well you need to be able to retrieve the image. :) | 19:22 |
| SpamapS | fungi: so just throwing it in /tmp and then torching the tempdir should be fine. | 19:22 |
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| fungi | it could accomplish that be just feeding you something, unless we need what we upload to match what we download | 19:23 |
| fungi | er, by | 19:23 |
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| fungi | but anyway, sounds cool | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | it should be "web scale" | 19:23 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:23 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:zanata,n,z | 19:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:23 | |
| cinerama | hi there! | 19:24 |
| jeblair | cinerama: hi! | 19:24 |
| cinerama | so as far as zanata goes, i have a review up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147947/ with pleia2 which has a base functional puppet module that installs zanata | 19:24 |
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| cinerama | it needs some work. i have a further patch in the series i'm nearly done with to put an apache proxy in front | 19:25 |
| jeblair | ++apache | 19:25 |
| clarkb | cinerama: are we wanting to break that up into multiple changes or should we wait for a new patchset on the above change? | 19:25 |
| cinerama | other outstanding issues - zanata can use clamav to check docs for viruses, so we could add that in the mix | 19:25 |
| clarkb | cinerama: mostly want to avoid merging anything you think is not ready | 19:26 |
| cinerama | and checking stuff for graceful upgrade, redundancy, etc etc | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | cinerama: i don't think clamav is necessary | 19:26 |
| cinerama | because i am infra n00b i will need some help with best practices and methodology | 19:26 |
| cinerama | i was thinking to break it up just to have reviewable chunks of reasonable size | 19:27 |
| jeblair | cinerama: i hope you'll find we're very helpful :) | 19:27 |
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| mrmartin | cinerama: if we have a standalone version that is running, we can focus on redundancy later | 19:27 |
| fungi | yeah, we're not allowing arbitrary uploads into zanata, right? this is specifically source code which has already been reviewed by humans | 19:27 |
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| cinerama | the other question is about migrating existing data | 19:28 |
| fungi | so virus scanning that seems entirely unnecessary | 19:28 |
| jeblair | mrmartin, cinerama: also, in general rax has such good uptime that i think we can live with zanata being singly hosted for a while. so we can put that _waaay_ down the priority list | 19:28 |
| jeblair | cinerama: upgrades would be cool; we should talk about how to do those, but we can also probably get the initial version up and running without it for now | 19:29 |
| mrmartin | jeblair: I agree, if we have a proper backup, we can go with a standalone install | 19:29 |
| jeblair | cinerama: what data need to be migrated? | 19:29 |
| cinerama | i've been super head down in "just get the thing working" mode so things like sso login etc are coming to mind | 19:29 |
| jeblair | the strings themselves should be in the source code and probably should be "migrated" the first time we run new import jobs for them | 19:29 |
| mrmartin | cinerama: would you like to use the openstackid.org for sso login? | 19:30 |
| cinerama | jeblair: my understanding is that we need to export stuff from transifex and import it to zanata | 19:30 |
| AJaeger_ | cinerama: correct | 19:30 |
| jeblair | what is in transifex that's not in the git repos? | 19:30 |
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| AJaeger_ | jeblair: we do not have all translations in git | 19:30 |
| cinerama | jeblair: good question; i'm going off the spec | 19:30 |
| fungi | right, zanata going offline due to server trouble will be ~= to gerrit going offline | 19:30 |
| clarkb | because we have the 75% threshold right? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | Export all translations (not only the 75% translated ones) from Transifex and import all the files into Zanata. Also import old versions of projects with translations (for example horizon/icehouse, horizon/havana) as reference and seed for translation memory. | 19:31 |
| jeblair | ^ from spec | 19:31 |
| AJaeger_ | we decided some time ago to only download files that are reasonable translated | 19:31 |
| AJaeger_ | jeblair: correct ;) | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | ya so there is a step but it should basically be identical to the automated tooling | 19:31 |
| fungi | er, the chances of them going offline will be roughly equivalent i mean, because we don't have redundant gerrit either | 19:31 |
| clarkb | with a small tweak to get all the files | 19:31 |
| cinerama | wrt to sso i need to take a step back and see what zanata can support | 19:32 |
| AJaeger_ | clarkb: just remove the limiting ;) | 19:32 |
| jeblair | cinerama: i think clarkb and AJaeger_ should be able to help you work through what the export/import step means | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | yup happy to help | 19:32 |
| AJaeger_ | indeed, I can help | 19:32 |
| jeblair | cinerama: for sso, i think openstackid supports openid or oauth2, right mrmartin? | 19:32 |
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| mrmartin | jeblair: supports both | 19:32 |
| fungi | currently those two protocols, yes | 19:32 |
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| mrmartin | we are using oauth2 because it supports of retrieving of profile pictures. | 19:33 |
| jeblair | i think at the time we evaluated it, we were only looking at openid, so i'm fairly certain it should support that | 19:33 |
| mrmartin | yes, openid works well too | 19:33 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: when you say "we are using" you mean for sites like group and later ask, i think. | 19:33 |
| mrmartin | groups portal | 19:33 |
| jeblair | ya | 19:33 |
| mrmartin | for the ask I think further testing required | 19:34 |
| jeblair | cinerama: so mrmartin can help out with sso questions. the main thing is that we want a login button, and it should take you directly to openstackid -- so no option to log in via another method | 19:34 |
| mrmartin | but the groups initially used the openid sso, so it is working well too | 19:34 |
| mrmartin | the only reason I upgraded to oauth2, that openid not provides to profile pictures of users. | 19:34 |
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| cinerama | i need to look more into what zanata/wildfly can do | 19:34 |
| fungi | to openstackid.org that is | 19:35 |
| jeblair | ya | 19:35 |
| fungi | (openstackid is just the name of the software running on there) | 19:35 |
| jeblair | cinerama: it feels like we're getting close to being able to stand something up, which will be exciting! :) | 19:35 |
| jeblair | anything else on this? | 19:35 |
| mrmartin | for the openstackid testing I have a vagrant: https://github.com/fremontlabs/vagrant-openstackid | 19:36 |
| cinerama | yes. my primary focus has been on the puppet stuff, which is in a reasonably good state. i think that's all i have for now | 19:36 |
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| cinerama | do we have a specific timeframe for this, or is it "when it's done"? | 19:36 |
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| mrmartin | I like to use it for groups portal translations, I have a bunch of .po files actually | 19:37 |
| jeblair | cinerama: i think not before the release, but if we can move over early in L that would be good | 19:37 |
| clarkb | having it for the summit would be great if possible | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, up by summit, in use early in L would be good | 19:37 |
| mrmartin | summit is a realistic goal | 19:38 |
| cinerama | okay. i'm cautiously optimistic :) | 19:38 |
| * asselin_ has to go now. No updates from last week w.r.t. downstream-puppet | 19:38 | |
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| jeblair | the translation team gets super-busy right before release, so they will have limited bandwidth to evaluate it around that time | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | starting soon, actually i think | 19:38 |
| jeblair | cinerama: thanks! | 19:39 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:39 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:downstream-puppet,n,z | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:39 | |
| nibalizer | i put two reviews up this week on my part of this | 19:39 |
| nibalizer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162830/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162819/ | 19:39 |
| yolanda | i've been sending some patches as well | 19:40 |
| jeblair | yolanda: for which spec? | 19:40 |
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| yolanda | well, related to downstream puppet | 19:40 |
| * krtaylor reads | 19:40 | |
| clarkb | yolanda: ya I think I reviewed a good chunk of them today. The cleanups in the various modules to make them reconsumable right? | 19:41 |
| nibalizer | clarkb: yep | 19:41 |
| yolanda | yes, these ones | 19:41 |
| clarkb | er s/today/yesterday/ | 19:41 |
| nibalizer | its the great 'hey look what hp did internally, yip' | 19:41 |
| yolanda | i had questions for https://review.openstack.org/162727 , https://review.openstack.org/161663 and https://review.openstack.org/161695 | 19:41 |
| nibalizer | we're gearing up for the 'Big Sync (tm)' | 19:41 |
| yolanda | yes, i expect to be sending more of those during the week | 19:42 |
| jeblair | okay, so this is waiting on reviews | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | yep | 19:42 |
| jeblair | i'm glad we're getting it moving :) | 19:43 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) | 19:43 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:askbot-site,n,z | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| mrmartin | ok, fungi made the instance for askbot | 19:43 |
| jeblair | fungi: hooray! | 19:43 |
| fungi | there's a server up and running, still need to do the data import | 19:43 |
| mrmartin | so I can access it on https, so need to move forward, and do the data import | 19:43 |
| fungi | do we want a separate dev server for this too? | 19:43 |
| mrmartin | that's all we have now, a good progress | 19:44 |
| mrmartin | fungi: we don't need that | 19:44 |
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| mrmartin | because ask comes from pip, and only the theme lives in our repos | 19:44 |
| fungi | cool. then i'll try to work on the data import later today. you had those instructions written up somewhere righth? | 19:44 |
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| mrmartin | fungi here: https://review.openstack.org/160693 | 19:44 |
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| fungi | aha, perfect. thanks | 19:45 |
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| mrmartin | not a big deal, need to do a pgsql backup, static files backup, restore that on the other side, an rebuild the solr indexes | 19:45 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/160693 | 19:45 |
| fungi | i think that's all for this topic at the moment | 19:46 |
| jeblair | thanks! | 19:46 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) | 19:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:46 | |
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| jeblair | we did not establish a gerrit topic for this... | 19:46 |
| jeblair | "gerrit-upgrade" ? | 19:46 |
| zaro | ohh actually i used a different one. | 19:46 |
| zaro | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:Gerrit-2.9-upgrade,n,z | 19:46 |
| zaro | i can change it if you like | 19:46 |
| fungi | gerrit makes that too easy | 19:47 |
| zaro | nothing new just need to review. | 19:47 |
| jeblair | zaro: let's change it because it looks too hard to type :) | 19:47 |
| jeblair | #info gerrit topic: gerrit-upgrade | 19:47 |
| jeblair | earlier april 11 and may 9 were suggested as upgrade dates | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | should we try to settle on one of those now? | 19:47 |
| fungi | also we're planning to tack a switch to utf-8 onto this, sounds like | 19:47 |
| zaro | would like to see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155448/ merged because it's blocking testing of gerrit/LP integration | 19:48 |
| anteaya | april 11 is pycon, I'm for may 9 | 19:48 |
| fungi | i don't think i have any explicit plans for either april 11 or may 9 | 19:48 |
| zaro | fungi: you mean https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163104/ ? | 19:48 |
| jeblair | i'm a pycon then, but i think fungi and clarkb are not... | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | correct I am not | 19:48 |
| fungi | nor i, no | 19:48 |
| clarkb | however that is right during when ttx asks us to be slushy | 19:49 |
| jeblair | i have no plans for may 9 | 19:49 |
| clarkb | which was the other reason we considered may 9 | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | so let's say may 9 then? | 19:49 |
| zaro | wfm | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | #agreed Gerrit 2.9 upgrade Saturday May 9, 2015 | 19:49 |
| fungi | zaro: yeah, not sure if we want to merge 163104 asap or wait until we're doing other changes. hopefully there's no negative impact from the encoding change | 19:49 |
| jeblair | and yeah, when do we want to do the utf8 change? | 19:50 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/163104 | 19:50 |
| jeblair | with the os move, or the gerrit upgrade? | 19:50 |
| fungi | (or immediately) | 19:50 |
| anteaya | my only concern is effect on existing data | 19:50 |
| zaro | changing db url seems independent of gerrit upgrade. | 19:50 |
| anteaya | no effect, then right away | 19:50 |
| zaro | or am i missing something? | 19:51 |
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| anteaya | any chance of effect, then either upgrade | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | fungi: can we do it without downtime? | 19:51 |
| fungi | jeblair: it needs a gerrit restart | 19:51 |
| jeblair | i suggested one of those two because we will have downtime and database backups already in place | 19:51 |
| zaro | yep, just a restart | 19:51 |
| fungi | so in theory it could be wrapped into a the bindep move for example | 19:51 |
| clarkb | or when we next restart gerrit to fight the memory leak :) | 19:52 |
| jeblair | zaro: how long does it take? | 19:52 |
| jeblair | does it involve table scans or is it just a table metadata change? | 19:52 |
| fungi | jeblair: since it's just a config change it appears to take just as long as a normal gerrit restart | 19:52 |
| fungi | just a dburi change in the config is all | 19:52 |
| jeblair | fungi: oh wait i think i may not understand what we're talking about | 19:53 |
| jeblair | i thought we were changing the charset of tables | 19:53 |
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| fungi | jeblair: apparently that was being ignored by gerrit. pelix pointed zaro at changing the dburi | 19:53 |
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| fungi | jeblair: see 163104 | 19:54 |
| jeblair | fungi: i thought zaro changed it on review-dev | 19:54 |
| fungi | (linked above) | 19:54 |
| fungi | yeah, he made that config change | 19:54 |
| jeblair | so he did not change the tables? | 19:54 |
| zaro | yep, just a config change. no updates to db at all | 19:54 |
| fungi | zaro: the table charset modification didn't actually work, right? | 19:54 |
| jeblair | okay, so everything about that is completely different than what we discussed before | 19:54 |
| jeblair | i'm not at all comfortable with that | 19:55 |
| jeblair | so we need to take this back for further discussion | 19:55 |
| zaro | i didn't make any changes to the db at all. | 19:55 |
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| fungi | well, we were discussing it in #openstack-infra but i think it got lost interleaved with the zuul debugging discussion | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | yeah, something went really wrong there | 19:55 |
| jeblair | let's work on it later | 19:55 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:55 |
| fungi | sounds good | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:55 | |
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| jeblair | anything else in 5 mins? :) | 19:56 |
| clarkb | oh the ansible puppet fixes | 19:56 |
| anteaya | can we discuss the election tooling? | 19:56 |
| anteaya | we have scalilbilty concerns and could benefit from input | 19:56 |
| tristanC | or onto #openstack-infra ... | 19:56 |
| jeblair | oh sorry | 19:56 |
| jeblair | #topic Election tooling (tristanC) | 19:56 |
| anteaya | well stuff gets lost there | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Election tooling (tristanC) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:56 |
| tristanC | First questions, what changes in ATC definition ? If ATC also means being a member of the OpenStack foundation, then we need a way to cross check gerrit list with foundation database. | 19:57 |
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| anteaya | fungi: we were told you might ahve some deveopments here | 19:57 |
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| zaro | clarkb: link for that? | 19:57 |
| fungi | atc is already poorly defined compared to how we build the electorate | 19:57 |
| jeblair | tristanC: my understanding is that being an ATC has always required being a member of the foundation | 19:57 |
| fungi | so i think we should get some more explicit election definitions before the tc for discussion | 19:57 |
| jeblair | but i'm not the foundation's lawyer | 19:57 |
| anteaya | sorry I meant the foundation db access | 19:58 |
| clarkb | zaro: I will #link as soon as this topic is done | 19:58 |
| anteaya | rather than discussing the charter here | 19:58 |
| anteaya | fungi: do you have access to the foundation db | 19:58 |
| fungi | anteaya: right now i have some knowledge of the backend database schema which makes it _possible_ to query whether someone is a foundation member | 19:58 |
| tristanC | jeblair: yes, but I guess the "resign button" from the foundation changed the rules | 19:58 |
| fungi | assuming they don't change it | 19:58 |
| anteaya | since if you don't bringing this up again, doen't change anything | 19:58 |
| fungi | but a proper api is preferred | 19:58 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes, i think if tooling is developed, it should use a proper api | 19:59 |
| tristanC | Second questions, is the openstack-dev mailing list + wiki suited to gather nominations and present results ? | 19:59 |
| anteaya | I feel this appraoch doesn't scale | 19:59 |
| fungi | but also, right now we define an atc (for election purposes) based on gerrit change ownership | 19:59 |
| anteaya | well it didn't scale for me | 19:59 |
| anteaya | but I'm not doing it this round | 19:59 |
| fungi | which is not exactly analogous to how atc is defined in the bylaws | 19:59 |
| anteaya | but don't want to leave the election officials in the lurch | 19:59 |
| jeblair | i think for the election definitions, someone should propose their understanding to a mailing list, and we should ask the tc and legal folks to weigh in on it and see if they agree. | 20:00 |
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| fungi | yes, that seems like the best way forward | 20:00 |
| anteaya | thanks | 20:00 |
| fungi | the infra bits are a small portion | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | as for nomination, perhaps we really do need an election platform for this | 20:00 |
| tristanC | jeblair: sounds like a plan, thanks for the guidance :) | 20:00 |
| jeblair | the foundation has a nomination system for the board | 20:01 |
| fungi | open governance enabling software | 20:01 |
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| anteaya | no tc meeting this week? | 20:01 |
| jeblair | perhaps we could use it, or something else, to collect ptl nominations. and maybe even run condorcet elections | 20:01 |
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| jeblair | and we're out of time | 20:01 |
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| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:01 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 20:01 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 20:01:56 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-10-19.01.html | 20:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-10-19.01.txt | 20:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-10-19.01.log.html | 20:02 |
| jeblair | do we have a quorum for the tc meeting? | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:02 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:02 |
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| adrian_otto | o/ | 20:02 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 20:02 |
| agentle_ | o/ | 20:02 |
| agentle_ | timechangeyay | 20:02 |
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| agentle_ | just letting my north american pride show | 20:03 |
| jeblair | 5/7 | 20:03 |
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| vishy | o/ | 20:03 |
| devananda | agentle_: time change means I can get lunch on tuesdays again :) | 20:03 |
| agentle_ | lunchyay! | 20:03 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:04 |
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| jeblair | 6/7... | 20:05 |
| sdake_ | I am not representing anyone, I am just waving hi :) | 20:05 |
| * mestery lurks | 20:05 | |
| jeblair | russellb, sdague, jgriffith, jaypipes-afk, mikal, mordred, ttx: ping | 20:05 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:05 |
| agentle_ | hi sdake_ :) | 20:06 |
| jeblair | that's 7 | 20:06 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting tc | 20:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 20:06:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:06 |
| ttx | o/ (might drop anytime) | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:06 |
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| jeblair | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:06 |
| jeblair | #topic Add IRC channel policies | 20:06 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/159930 | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add IRC channel policies (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
| jeblair | so this had several +1s | 20:07 |
| jeblair | and agentle_ suggested adding another explanatory paragraph | 20:07 |
| agentle_ | thanks for the revision jeblair | 20:07 |
| jeblair | which i have done (i liked it!) | 20:07 |
| jeblair | i did change one word | 20:07 |
| agentle_ | whew! | 20:07 |
| jeblair | agentle_: hopefully you're okay with my editing you :) | 20:07 |
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| agentle_ | oh sure! | 20:08 |
| russellb | +1 | 20:08 |
| agentle_ | I am _not_ the grammarian about whom your mother warned. | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ha! | 20:08 |
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| jeblair | i think this revision should be good to go | 20:09 |
| jeblair | and once it merges, infra will work on implementing it for the remaining channels | 20:10 |
| jeblair | though a lot have gone ahead and proactively made the switch to logging | 20:10 |
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| jeblair | #topic Magnum - OpenStack Containers Service | 20:10 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/161080 | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Magnum - OpenStack Containers Service (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:10 | |
| ttx | They crossed all the boxes on the current requirements list | 20:11 |
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| adrian_otto | I am present if there are questions. | 20:11 |
| ttx | the question is more, are we missing any requirement :) | 20:11 |
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| jeblair | it's probably worth noting there is a thread on the -dev list that suggests that many members of the tc are not ready to actually approve new projects yet | 20:11 |
| russellb | don't really want to re-hash the dev thread | 20:11 |
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| dhellmann | jogo proposed a new requirement related to team diversity, but I think they already meet that one, too | 20:11 |
| jeblair | and want to work slowly through this process to make sure that we're not missing anything | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:11 |
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| mestery | ++ | 20:12 |
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| ttx | it's interesting to note that I asked the questoin about being ready to process applications a couple weeks ago... and everyone sais we were ready | 20:12 |
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| russellb | i think i was out a couple weeks ago due to travel fwiw :) | 20:12 |
| jogo | dhellmann: I think this is very diverse http://stackalytics.com/?project_type=stackforge&module=magnum&metric=commits&release=all | 20:12 |
| ttx | so I guess it's precisely the fact that we received applications that triggered this whole discussion | 20:12 |
| russellb | ttx: probably | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I think we're ready to see some submissions, and now that we have, I want to have a chance to look at them and consider whether they make me think we've missed anything. | 20:12 |
| ttx | hence my resistance to freezing. | 20:12 |
| adrian_otto | my suggestion is to use the criteria set in writing, so that new project leaders do not feel as if they are trying to hit a moving target. | 20:12 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: ++ | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | so I don't want to freeze submissions, just go slow with voting | 20:13 |
| jeblair | i feel like we generally are ready. i do agree that as we go through the first few, we should introspect. | 20:13 |
| ttx | Also the current set of rules is pretty powerful. Like we require open development. that may or may not translate into "diversity" | 20:13 |
| jeblair | and yeah, i'm okay with going slow and making sure we are doing it right. | 20:13 |
| russellb | i guess i'm just disappointed we have no tags ... we promised a rich navigation of the big tent, and we have nothing | 20:13 |
| ttx | but that definitely translates into resisting open washing. cc:mestery | 20:13 |
| russellb | that was my issue ... was curious if anyone else felt that way | 20:13 |
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| russellb | weak support so far | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | russellb: what tags would be useful for evaluating these proposals? | 20:13 |
| mestery | ttx: +10000 | 20:14 |
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| devananda | ++ to going slowly and introspecting. I'd like to be sure I'm not implicitly applying standards that we've changed, simply out of habit | 20:14 |
| mestery | ttx: See my ODL emial on that thread on the ML | 20:14 |
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| jeblair | russellb: i'm about halfway through writing a response to the thread. i agree we probably can't hash it out here, just letting you know i do plan on engaging :) | 20:14 |
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| russellb | jeblair: thanks | 20:14 |
| ttx | mestery: we may still have to refine the "are you one of us" requirements into more precise terms, but I think the spirit is there already | 20:14 |
| russellb | yeah, i'll just stop now, don't want to duplicate .. | 20:14 |
| devananda | russellb: I was just discussing some tags that I'd like to add with dhellmann in -dev, which seems to have stale mated in whether or not the TC should curate the list of tags ... | 20:14 |
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| mestery | ttx: Just watching out for OpenStack's back. | 20:15 |
| devananda | russellb: but that discussion will derail this one, so let's not go there now | 20:15 |
| ttx | If we think a project doesn't belong and there is no rule allowing us to keep it outside... we just add a rule | 20:15 |
| jeblair | do we have any questions for adrian_otto since he's here and apparently willing to be a guinea pig? :) | 20:15 |
| ttx | I'm just saying.. processing applications is the pressure that will push us forward | 20:15 |
| devananda | russellb: I agree that I'd like to see a richer set of tags, and i'd like to see them actually agreed on, so we all know what we're looking at as projects apply | 20:15 |
| adrian_otto | I am. | 20:15 |
| ttx | freezing them is the best way to stop making progress. | 20:15 |
| david-lyle | ttx, add a rule if reaction to a proposal, or in general? | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: is it clear why we're delaying any final decision? | 20:16 |
| russellb | ttx: fwiw proposal was to freeze approvals, not applications | 20:16 |
| adrian_otto | I'm proposing to enter the git namespace, not to acquire project tags. | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | s/if/in/ | 20:16 |
| adrian_otto | so I'd like to clear the first hurdle as the criteria for that has been set. | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | russellb: ok, I misunderstood what you said then, but I thought we'd all more or less agreed to that already anyway | 20:16 |
| ttx | russellb: I guess"slowly processing them and expect delays" is close to what you want then | 20:16 |
| adrian_otto | then we can decide about tags later | 20:16 |
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| russellb | adrian_otto: yep, understood | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: I don't think we have any tags that would apply to your project yet anyway. | 20:17 |
| ttx | I feel like rejecting Magnum would go contrary to the core of the big tent approach. Which is including projects that are obvisouly openstack projects and bahve like one | 20:17 |
| sdake_ | yup tbh, affiliate companies that are considering contributing to magnum are gating on git namespace adoption, not tags... | 20:17 |
| ttx | behave* | 20:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: hopefully we'll have release model tags soon :P | 20:18 |
| ttx | If people stop resiting them | 20:18 |
| jeblair | ttx: i agree -- from what i've seen, magnum is an excellent example of what i imagined would happen | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | ttx: you could just put those in the release management readme and be done with it :-) | 20:18 |
| sdake_ | we want contributrors, which is why we want git namespace, tagging is for a different purpose and audience then adding devs to our project | 20:18 |
| ttx | dhellmann: :P | 20:18 |
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| russellb | right, you want to be official | 20:18 |
| russellb | and i was hoping we'd have a better system for communicating info about the official projects | 20:19 |
| ttx | they want openstack design summit space to continue collaboration | 20:19 |
| russellb | before we ramped up inclusion | 20:19 |
| russellb | but alas | 20:19 |
| sdake_ | ttx ++ | 20:19 |
| adrian_otto | ++ | 20:19 |
| russellb | just trying to clarify, i completely understand the difference between the namespace and the tags | 20:19 |
| ttx | my new motto is "step out of the way, fix issues when they arise" | 20:19 |
| devananda | russellb: ++ | 20:19 |
| mestery | ttx: Do you run with scissors as well? ;) | 20:19 |
| russellb | and yeah, i am a little more shy after hearing and seeing some of the problems in opendaylight | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | russellb: ++ | 20:20 |
| russellb | it's a big mess | 20:20 |
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| russellb | i would have hoped ODL would have been our champion open source SDN backend by now | 20:21 |
| russellb | but instead ...... | 20:21 |
| mestery | russellb: Yup | 20:21 |
| russellb | they're too busy infighting | 20:21 |
| markmcclain | too many cooks | 20:21 |
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| mestery | markmcclain: ++ | 20:21 |
| mestery | markmcclain: And too many recipes | 20:21 |
| devananda | ttx: in the old world, we would have two meetings for project inclusion. I'm all for going slow with the first few proposals inthe new way, and not rushing a vote today, with just one meeting | 20:21 |
| ttx | devananda: oh sure, totally agree we shouldn't approve today | 20:22 |
| adrian_otto | what are the considerations specific to magnum that would delay a vote? | 20:22 |
| jeblair | i think no one expects us to approve this change this week, so i think it's fair to say this will also be on next week's agenda | 20:22 |
| russellb | i want confidence that we're not headed there, a really nice system for communicating maturity, stability, etc. would help | 20:22 |
| ttx | but we should raise issues today | 20:22 |
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| devananda | russellb: ++ | 20:22 |
| adrian_otto | if you'd like to revisit this, I'd like actionable requests to take with me | 20:22 |
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| agentle_ | russellb: ok, that's helpful, it's messiness to avoid, sure. | 20:22 |
| ttx | russellb: we had very interesting discussion at the ops summit on that | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: I need to learn more about the project, myself, so I just need some time to read up | 20:23 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 20:23 |
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| devananda | adrian_otto: ditto what dhellmann said. I'd like to learn a bit more, review the code and arch, see what's doc and what's tested | 20:23 |
| russellb | ttx: cool, interested to hear more | 20:23 |
| sdake_ | is opendaylight in some way beingcompared to magnum? | 20:23 |
| russellb | sdake_: no | 20:23 |
| russellb | more openstack | 20:23 |
| sdake_ | i see thanks | 20:24 |
| russellb | basically none of this has been magnum specific, heh | 20:24 |
| devananda | otoh, I think part of the goal of opening the big tent is to not have the TC doing that -- so even though I am inclined to do that, for my own satisfaction, i'm not sure it actually has any bearing on my vote | 20:24 |
| devananda | which is why I'd like a tagging system that can represent that sort of information about a project | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm not aware of any issues with Magnum right now, just with our own confidence that we've thought about all of the edge cases. I'd like to consider several of the applications we have right now before we start approving any of them | 20:24 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: I had a question on the release model you wanted to adopt | 20:24 |
| ttx | currently it's adhoc releases | 20:24 |
| sdake_ | well we hav eabout 10 corporate affiliations and about 5 more on the fence awaiting git namesapce | 20:25 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: would you keep that model as far as liberty goes ? | 20:25 |
| sdake_ | I want to accelerate the project so that is my agenda ;-) | 20:25 |
| adrian_otto | we plan to tag releases upon each significant feature addition | 20:25 |
| jogo | devananda dhellmann: I thought the new big tent model meant not reviewing arch | 20:25 |
| devananda | so as much as I want to be able to answer basic questions about the maturity of the project, how it's gated, etc, I also don't want that information to contribute to gate-keeping | 20:25 |
| jeblair | dhellmann, adrian_otto, ttx: would it make sense to put another application on the agenda next week and get back to magnum in 2 or 3 meetings? | 20:25 |
| devananda | jogo: exactly | 20:25 |
| adrian_otto | and we will label these releases on the timing of our littered milestones in accordance with other projects | 20:25 |
| ttx | sdake: that's an interesting data point wrt: the diversity question and the chicken-and-egg a diversity requirement would create | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | sdake_: I reaching the point where I don't care about companies that wait to contribute until a project is official. | 20:25 |
| adrian_otto | my understanding is that swift works like this. | 20:26 |
| ttx | "5 more on hte fence awaiting git namespace" | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I like that, sort of do a survey of what we have in front of us right now | 20:26 |
| adrian_otto | As of our Midcycle we have seen contributions from 24 engineers from 13 different affiliations. There is about 52,000 SLOC in about 100 days of development. Full time contributors from multiple companies are contributing. | 20:26 |
| sdake_ | yes the bar is the git namespace | 20:26 |
| sdake_ | not the tags | 20:26 |
| devananda | jogo: but without tags to represent that information, I feel like I'll be in a position to say "I think thisproject should part of openstack, but I don't actually know anything about it" -- and that's weird | 20:26 |
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| sdake_ | from folks I've talked with nobody cares about tags from a "will we invest" perspective | 20:26 |
| adrian_otto | I'd really like to secure design summit space, as we have a lot to talk about. | 20:26 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: Swift also does a "final" cycle release, would you do that ? | 20:26 |
| russellb | i really wish design summit space wasn't pressuring approvals | 20:27 |
| jogo | devananda: it sure is | 20:27 |
| adrian_otto | ttx: yes, unless there is a good reason not to | 20:27 |
| devananda | ttx: is summit space already set? or is there room for more projects to get designated space? | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: I don't think we've made any promises about approving projects before this summit. | 20:27 |
| mestery | russellb: +1000 | 20:27 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: ok thx | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | ttx: have we? ^^ | 20:27 |
| devananda | russellb: +1000 | 20:27 |
| markmcclain | russellb: ++ | 20:27 |
| ttx | devananda: i currently have space left for 5-8 extra big-tent-entering projects | 20:27 |
| russellb | surely we can solve that without governance approvals | 20:27 |
| ttx | the others would have to apply for ecosystem project days space on the Monday | 20:27 |
| mestery | Can't we just have existing projects give up a few slots? | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | the design summit space is only half the issue | 20:28 |
| russellb | just with our collective knowledge of "these 5-8 projects seem to make the most sense" | 20:28 |
| mestery | Why force governance just for slots in vancouver? | 20:28 |
| devananda | actually, I don't want ANYTHING to be pressuring projects to join openstack. whether that's design summit space, or the perception that by changing their namespace, they'll suddenly be validated, get wide adoption, and flourish | 20:28 |
| agentle_ | ttx: good to have a number | 20:28 |
| sdake_ | the other half is those companieson the fence awaiting official git namespace approval | 20:28 |
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| adrian_otto | we also have statements of intent from new contributors who can begin upon inclusion to the openstack git namespace. | 20:28 |
| adrian_otto | so our velocity can increase if we proceed. | 20:28 |
| russellb | which is silly, of course :) | 20:28 |
| ttx | For Vancouver since we are in the middle of the transition we could adopt an hybrid model to give | 20:28 |
| devananda | the only reason for that perception (by joining openstack/* i get adopters) is because the TC has been cautious about who it lets in -- that signals a maturity and readiness for adoption | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | russellb: ++ | 20:28 |
| sdake_ | russellb it is what it is - you know how managers think ;-) | 20:28 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 20:28 |
| adrian_otto | russellb: regardless, that's how it works. | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | sdake_: we need to find a way to change that, because we don't want projects from single companies -- not that that applies in your case, but in general | 20:29 |
| sdake_ | devandanda you may have a point | 20:29 |
| devananda | sdake_: allowing every project that currently wants adoption into the openstack/* namespace will signal nothing, and have the opposite effect | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | our intent has been widely discussed at three public events, and I am convinced Magnum is acting in the interest of OpenStack cloud operators. | 20:29 |
| mestery | devananda: ++ | 20:30 |
| russellb | adrian_otto: "it's not you, it's me" | 20:30 |
| ttx | devananda: we didn't judge maturity or readiness for adoptoin though | 20:30 |
| ttx | We were notoriously bad at it | 20:30 |
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| sdake_ | dhellmann ack - agree - although magnum has no "single major contributor" | 20:30 |
| russellb | ttx: we sure tried | 20:30 |
| ttx | it's just an overloaded meaning of the integrated release | 20:30 |
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| sdake_ | we are evenly broken up into nice little pies :) | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | devananda: we have a set list of criteria that must be met. My question is which of these criteria do I need to do more to meet? | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | sdake_: right, like I said, it doesn't apply in this case | 20:30 |
| devananda | sdake_: I'm not saying that's actually bad -- it's just going to defeat the purpose which you said that companies have in wanting to change namespaces | 20:30 |
| ttx | and documenting that sperataely (as separate tags) is the solution | 20:30 |
| russellb | there were written requirements about testing, API stability, ... | 20:30 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i don't think they are healthy, but i don't think we need to exclude them. i think we can let new projects start up, and if they gain contributors, that will be reflected. | 20:30 |
| russellb | ttx: agree, so let's create those :) | 20:31 |
| ttx | russellb: and yet we included projects that were not ready. Because we are not the ones to judge. Downstream users are | 20:31 |
| devananda | sdake_: also, not disagreeing that that is the motivation many companies have. but they're not thinking "what if every project did this?" | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I don't want companies benefiting from our name without actually being a real open project | 20:31 |
| adrian_otto | russellb: those should be requirements for tags. | 20:31 |
| devananda | dhellmann: ++ | 20:31 |
| * jogo wonders if there any actionable items that can be worked on for next week | 20:31 | |
| russellb | ttx: we still had a lot of useful requirements that were captured | 20:31 |
| russellb | adrian_otto: I know. | 20:31 |
| devananda | ttx: we didn't judge based on that, but others perceived our judgement as having that meaning. and clearly, still do :( | 20:32 |
| russellb | but i think it's a big confusing (potentiall harmful) mess to open flood gates when we haven't created a single useful tag. | 20:32 |
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| adrian_otto | do you think that Magnum will harm OpenStack? | 20:32 |
| ttx | russellb: nobody said they would open the flood gates | 20:32 |
| devananda | ttx: completely opening the gates, which we're all hesitant to do, will, I think, create a raft of confusion until the ecosystem realises that openstack/* namespace doesn't mean what they think it means | 20:32 |
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| devananda | so our caution right now is around that change. But honestly, didn't we all agree that opening the gates like this is A Good Thing? | 20:33 |
| mestery | So, it seems to me part of the problem here is that the TC has done a poor job explaining what the openstack/* namespace means. | 20:33 |
| jeblair | devananda: ripping the bandage off will cause that to correct faster. | 20:33 |
| ttx | mestery: that is not true. We did that | 20:33 |
| mestery | Fixing that may be worth doing to clear confusion here. | 20:33 |
| devananda | jeblair: indeed | 20:33 |
| ttx | mestery: the new-projects-requirements clearly says what belongs | 20:33 |
| devananda | jeblair: however, I had hoped we'd have some tags in place, with which to stop the bleeding :) | 20:33 |
| mestery | ttx: If companies are basing their participation on that fact, is ti really clear then? | 20:33 |
| russellb | devananda: we did ... though for me it was qualified with "but don't worry, we're going to do a new thing that communicates useful information in an even more clear way than before" | 20:34 |
| ttx | It means you follow the 4 opens and help furthuring the openstack mission | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | mestery: they've always done that, though | 20:34 |
| mestery | ttx: Also, I mean we should do a better job communicating it externally perhaps, likely most people here know. | 20:34 |
| devananda | russellb: exactly. and we have'nt done that yet | 20:34 |
| ttx | And open washing is not one of the 4 opens | 20:34 |
| mestery | ttx: lol | 20:34 |
| ttx | as is open core | 20:34 |
| mestery | ttx: It'st he fifth open, the one we don't want. :) | 20:34 |
| devananda | also, the TC doesn't even all agree on how to do that :( | 20:34 |
| russellb | devananda: *nods* ... that's my objection | 20:34 |
| jeblair | russellb: and i don't blame you for expecting that, it is the first item in the resolution. :) | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | ttx: oh, that's a good one, we should make sure open core is listed as a no-no | 20:34 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: it is patr of the 4 opens. You should read that | 20:35 |
| * mestery wonders how he can get Open Washing into the governance model as a no-no as well :) | 20:35 | |
| devananda | russellb: based on that objection, I would say, we should block all new service project proposals until we have a suitable set of tags to communicate that information, and have applied them to existing projects | 20:35 |
| * dhellmann hangs his head in shame | 20:35 | |
| markmcclain | ttx: so effectively we're describing a min-set of tags a project should have to be in the namespace | 20:35 |
| ttx | <<"Open source": we will not do open core.>> | 20:35 |
| russellb | devananda: ++ | 20:35 |
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| agentle_ | so I _think_ I know what open core means, what does open washing mean? (I'll bite) | 20:35 |
| russellb | i just learned that term myself, heh | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: Is it the bit about the libraries restricting its use? | 20:36 |
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| mestery | Heh: Open Sourcing a minimal version of some proprietary item. | 20:36 |
| mestery | Open Washing: ^^^ | 20:36 |
| jeblair | i think we need to stop thinking of the git namespace as a part of a project's evolution | 20:36 |
| dtroyer | +++ | 20:36 |
| devananda | russellb: but also, I believe, based on my conversatoin in -dev an hour ago, that dhellmann disagrees -- which, I am guessing, is why he's hanging is head :( | 20:36 |
| devananda | jeblair: ++ | 20:36 |
| agentle_ | jeblair: yeah that's really strange to me, what rights/privs come with the github namespace? | 20:37 |
| sdake_ | jeblair deifne we - tc or openstack ATCs? :) | 20:37 |
| devananda | jeblair: I would prefer the namespace to be a statement of intent, and a committment | 20:37 |
| agentle_ | adrian_otto: is this a perception / education we need to understand? | 20:37 |
| russellb | devananda: our lack of consensus/clarity isn't giving me a lot of confidence that all of this will just get cleared up naturally easily enough | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | devananda: no, that was in response to ttx. I'm still banging my head on the desk in response to that conversation. ;-) | 20:37 |
| devananda | dhellmann: oh. lol :p | 20:37 |
| jeblair | devananda: well put. | 20:37 |
| devananda | dhellmann: hey, i'm trying to create some bandages here ... I guess you'll need them, too? | 20:38 |
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| jeblair | sdake_: all of us :) | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | devananda: I support the idea of intent, but I think we need to be more clear about what we want that intent and commitment to be. That's not the same as saying we need tags. | 20:38 |
| adrian_otto | agentle_: Look, Magnum is run as if it were any of our beloved OpenStack projects. We want a way to signal that. We want to participate in the same PTL elections, the same Design summit, just as we do everything else in the OpenStack way. | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | devananda: an ice pack? :-) | 20:38 |
| sdake_ | devanda I think fence cmopanies see the openstack namespace as intent | 20:38 |
| devananda | agentle_: afaik, there is now no actual (legal, governance, or otherwise) difference in the name spaces -- but in the eyes of hte community, there still is a perception of difference | 20:38 |
| russellb | i think companies see namespace as == official project | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | tags or namespace, you're just shifting the place where companies will look to define openstack, if the namespace is too wide open, tags become the new namespace, you're just shifting the target. Currently nothing is really changing but terminology. | 20:38 |
| russellb | and it is our responsibility to make consuming those projects sane | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: please keep in mind, most of this discussion is meta, and not related to what you're doing! :-) | 20:39 |
| adrian_otto | accepting magnum is a way to kick off Big Tent in the spirit it was conceived in. | 20:39 |
| jeblair | but specifically, i think the new requirements are a big step in clearing the namespace thing up. i am hesitant to say we should create a bunch of specific tags and require them so that the net effect is that we have the same process as before. | 20:39 |
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| ttx | yeah, it's not the git namespace, it's being official | 20:39 |
| russellb | whether that's by restricting the list, or with a rich set of info to help people figure it out | 20:39 |
| adrian_otto | dhellmann: ack. | 20:39 |
| dtroyer | those who want a gatekeeper for committing resources will pick something to base that decision on. If the TC does not give them something specific they will pick something on their own. First it was 'integrated/incubated', then openstack/* namespace. | 20:39 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: practical question - has Magnum committed to maintaining API compatibilty across releases? | 20:39 |
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| agentle_ | jeblair: +1 from me | 20:39 |
| ttx | Ops summit wrapping up here, might have to leave wifi coverage | 20:39 |
| mestery | dtroyer: Lets give them a magic eightball, it will be easier for them :) | 20:39 |
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| adrian_otto | devananda: we have not discussed api changes beyond the fact that that RPC messages will be versioned. | 20:39 |
| devananda | david-lyle: yes, but with tags, we can be more precise in what is communicated | 20:40 |
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| devananda | david-lyle: it's not just "in or out" with tags | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: +1 to focusing on the new-projects-requirements.txt rather than tags | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | I can tell you that no API changes are contemplated. | 20:40 |
| ttx | requirements say "diversity is necessary" while tags would say "here is the level of diversity" | 20:40 |
| sdake_ | devandanda imo yes we will but as adrian has mentioned it has not been discussed | 20:40 |
| david-lyle | devananda: in some way it will be | 20:40 |
| ttx | basically admitting that diversity is optional | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | if it would be helpful to reach a commitment on that point, our team meeting is today, I can raise it for discussion. | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer: the next thing they will gate commitment on is our tag for whether or not something is allowed to use the trademark. | 20:41 |
| sdake_ | adrian_otto ++ | 20:41 |
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| sdake_ | whatever system you create will be gamed | 20:41 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: in absence of something like lsell described in the ML thread, exactly | 20:41 |
| sdake_ | but we are not gaming - we have a legitimate project | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: I don't think we want to lock you in to making no changes, but a statement about maintaining the old API for some period would be good | 20:41 |
| russellb | so, new-project-requirements == requirements, tags == optional things. i think the optional things are just as important, as it's the set of things that helps you figure out which projects have reached a higher bar. | 20:41 |
| adrian_otto | I think we can all agree to that | 20:41 |
| russellb | so i don't like just putting those aside | 20:42 |
| mestery | sdake_: Sadly, you're 100% right on the gaming thing. | 20:42 |
| ttx | and I insist -- the requirements are the minimal set. We still vote as humans | 20:42 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: yea, REST API compatibility, and testing of an upgrade path would all be good things to be clear about | 20:42 |
| jeblair | russellb, ttx: those are both good points | 20:42 |
| russellb | and if we can't communicate useful information about varying bars projects have met, then i think the whole big tent is a disaster | 20:42 |
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| ttx | So a project that does meet requirementsbut we don't feel belongs in... we reject | 20:42 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: not saying you need them now - just be clear about where the project is at, and where it's committed to go | 20:42 |
| ttx | ideally we then document that as a new requirement if we can | 20:42 |
| devananda | russellb: ++ | 20:42 |
| adrian_otto | devananda: ok, we are < 4 months old in terms of code contribution, and about 1 year old in terms of ideation. | 20:43 |
| ttx | but in the end we are elected to make the choice, not create a game where people can get what they want and what we don't want in | 20:43 |
| jeblair | i'd like to wrap this up in the next few mins... i think we've come as close as we can to giving adrian_otto tangible things to work on (which is very little while we continue to get our own house in order) | 20:43 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: ah! that's also really helpful information - and certainly sets a background to think about API compat on :) | 20:43 |
| mestery | ttx: Well said | 20:43 |
| jeblair | can we decide whether to put magnum on next week's agenda, or defer for at least 1 week? | 20:44 |
| ttx | and again, Magnum is the wrong background to have this discussion on, since they do I think belong. | 20:44 |
| jogo | w.r.t. to the openstack git namespace, what really comes with that is non commercial trademark usage. 'Magnum a X for OpenStack' versus 'OpenStack Magnum'/'Magnum an OpenStack project' etc. | 20:44 |
| ttx | jogo: I don't think so, but that's the board decision | 20:44 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: it also raises an intersting question to the TC: should the age of a project's codebase ,how long it may reasonably have been in use by anyone, be a critera for inclusion? | 20:44 |
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| jeblair | ttx: agreed. i favor deferring magnum until after next week at least partially to help remove them from the focus of our disfunction :) | 20:44 |
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| agentle_ | jeblair: :) | 20:45 |
| ttx | (right to call yourself openstack whatever) | 20:45 |
| russellb | +1 to defer | 20:45 |
| devananda | I dont think we've discussed that before ,but it's definitely something I have thought about w.r.t. younger projects in the past | 20:45 |
| markmcclain | ttx: through no fault of magnum's I think we should until the 24th | 20:45 |
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| russellb | devananda: for inclusion no, but i think that's related to communicating maturity (optional higher bars == tags) | 20:45 |
| ttx | 24th ? | 20:45 |
| jogo | ttx: that is how the old bylaws worked | 20:46 |
| devananda | russellb: what if someone proposes a project whose first commit was one day before the proposal? :) | 20:46 |
| adrian_otto | next meeting is the 17th. Can't that work? | 20:46 |
| ttx | Also I'd like people complaining about lack of tags to actually statr being part of the solution | 20:46 |
| russellb | devananda: heh, fair | 20:46 |
| russellb | devananda: so maybe some bar there :) | 20:46 |
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| russellb | required bar i mean | 20:46 |
| anteaya | adrian_otto: they are saying they need time to think | 20:46 |
| devananda | ttx: I started drafting some tags. then started talking with dhellmann ... I'll post them anyway (WIP) later today | 20:46 |
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| anteaya | adrian_otto: they are also saying they are trying to help you achieve your goal | 20:46 |
| ttx | I expect ops to start submitting some soon too | 20:46 |
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| adrian_otto | anteaya: tx | 20:47 |
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| anteaya | adrian_otto: sure | 20:47 |
| jeblair | adrian_otto: yes, i personally don't think we will be in a position to approve magnum by next meeting, so we should work on getting ourselves into a position where we can. | 20:47 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: everything to me says, right now, good to go -- but I am also being cautious about all our new processes | 20:47 |
| markmcclain | ttx: I wonder if we actually need to get folks together with higher bandwidth to hash out the initial base of tags | 20:47 |
| ttx | I'm also considering moving tags off the "governance" repo to a project catalog repo | 20:47 |
| ttx | and have a motivated subgroup work on htat | 20:47 |
| devananda | ttx: ++ | 20:47 |
| sarob | So congress and few others were asked to wait until after security team ran through the new incubation process | 20:48 |
| ttx | because as dhellmann syas, it's documentation, not governance | 20:48 |
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| devananda | ttx: and I agree with dhellmann on that | 20:48 |
| russellb | it's documentation that makes the governance approach sane | 20:48 |
| * dhellmann stops banging his head on the desk | 20:48 | |
| sarob | Should I be submittjng a proposal now? | 20:48 |
| devananda | ttx: but relatedly, I think the definition of what the tags are IS governance | 20:48 |
| russellb | without it, governance is a pile of fail | 20:48 |
| jeblair | #agreed defer vote on magnum until after next tc meeting | 20:48 |
| russellb | pretty tightly coupled | 20:48 |
| ttx | devananda: that will be next discussion :) | 20:48 |
| devananda | ttx: because that is how we set the direction that projects work towards, and the constraints in whch they are incentivized to communicate up-and-down-stream | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | russellb: I'm looking forward to seeing a list of useful governance related tags. Only ttx's about defcore has been mentioned so far. | 20:49 |
| anteaya | personally I think as long as we continue to listen to each other, we are succeeding | 20:49 |
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| anteaya | what we haven't been able to do is manage the expectations of the crowd | 20:49 |
| ttx | dhellmann: and tags that we would actually be the right people to maintain. Quite rare beast | 20:49 |
| mestery | anteaya: ++ | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:49 |
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| jeblair | i think we have conveniently run out of time to address ttx's release tags in this meeting | 20:50 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'm all for the TC being called on dispute resolution if tags are misplaced, rather than being a bottleneck in the tagging process | 20:50 |
| ttx | hence my new motto | 20:50 |
| jeblair | but as a reminder, here they are: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/157322/ | 20:51 |
| jeblair | read the new patchset :) | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | ttx: if a tag can be misplaced, it's not objective enough to be useful | 20:51 |
| lifeless | 'its easier to tag than ask permission' ? | 20:51 |
| ttx | "step out of the way, fix issues when they arise" | 20:51 |
| jogo | how will next weeks discussion be different? | 20:51 |
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| devananda | should we schedule some separate time to discuss tags further? | 20:51 |
| ttx | jogo: that is unclear to me | 20:51 |
| devananda | ttx: you've said there's some discussio happening on that at the ops summit - | 20:51 |
| ttx | except I'll stand at my desk rather than on this uncomfortable chair | 20:51 |
| jeblair | let's see where the thread and the ops summit put us at next weeks meeting | 20:52 |
| ttx | devananda: yes, like "how to define maturity" | 20:52 |
| jeblair | and if we feel then that we need special time, let's decide then | 20:52 |
| devananda | ttx: great. if there's a way for remote participation, consider me interested // let me know | 20:52 |
| jeblair | in the mean time, let's move on | 20:52 |
| jeblair | #topic Other governance changes | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:52 | |
| jeblair | #link Add the new developer-reference repo to the TC list https://review.openstack.org/161009 | 20:52 |
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| jeblair | oh neat that was abandoned | 20:53 |
| jeblair | #undo | 20:53 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x9707990> | 20:53 |
| jeblair | #link Add the new developer-reference repo to the TC list https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161451/ | 20:53 |
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| ttx | all; please review the release tag thing again as I'd like to post a final patchset if needed for qiuck approval. Hopefully will unclog the tag tap | 20:54 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: do you think we will still have things in the cross-project specs? | 20:54 |
| ttx | unless we ca napprove it today, which I doubt given the remaining time | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | the SQL thing looks close to ready, but we're waiting for the ops event to end: https://review.openstack.org/152337 | 20:55 |
| devananda | dhellman: AIUI, there's a difference between devref and specs, so they will coexist | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | the library stable branch policy needs reviews, but Oslo is going to be using this plan: https://review.openstack.org/155072 | 20:55 |
| fungi | might also need to be sort of careful that things in the developer-reference repo don't unnecessarily overlap with the infra-manual repo (workflow documentation for example) | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | devananda: yes, separate repos | 20:55 |
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| dhellmann | fungi: yeah, this is about things like how not to use eventlet in bad ways | 20:56 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ops like dropping downgrades | 20:56 |
| ttx | sean commented there | 20:56 |
| ttx | so it's ready to go | 20:56 |
| jeblair | #link Remove py26 from PTI https://review.openstack.org/159936 | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, then we should get everyone to vote on that one unless it has enough votes | 20:56 |
| jeblair | #link Remove reference to Jenkins in PTI https://review.openstack.org/159935 | 20:56 |
| devananda | ttx: wow. I'm pleasantly surprised | 20:56 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: is the developer-reference name a done deal? | 20:56 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: dont wanna bikeshed on dev-ref naming | 20:56 |
| jeblair | those are two, i hope uncontroversial changes to the project testing interface | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | agentle_: what do you want it called? | 20:57 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: just worried, as always, on "contrib-dev" vs. "app-dev" | 20:57 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: to be honest, i am having trouble distinguishing the things we've been putting in cross-projects specs from developer reference | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | agentle_: so far the content is literally stuff that only developers will care about | 20:57 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: "making openstack, the good, the bad, the ugly" | 20:57 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: they all seem like "this is a good idea and how we should do things" | 20:58 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: but if people feel strongly there should be two, i can go along with that | 20:58 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: I originally wanted to just use the cross-project specs repo, but gave up after an hour of bikeshedding last week and created a new project. I would be very happy for the TC to vote to tell the PTLs to put those things in the existing repo. | 20:58 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: jeblair: honestly get the best damn review team in place you can -- so I'd opt for cross-project over tc, no hard feelings :) | 20:58 |
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| agentle_ | dhellmann: but yeah too many cooks happens in cross-project. | 20:58 |
| devananda | hm. is one more "this is a good idea" and the other is more "this is a standards document everyone should follow" ? | 20:59 |
| jeblair | i'm not looking forward to arguing about which of those two repos something should be in :) | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | agentle_: so far I have not seen an overwhelming number of reviewers there, but this new repo will be managed following the same rules | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: me neither | 20:59 |
| agentle_ | devananda: hm good point | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: maybe I should go vote no on my own proposal | 20:59 |
| devananda | where "good idea" becomes cross project dev-ref, and "standards document" is really a TC thing | 20:59 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: heh | 20:59 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: you have emboldened me to do so :) | 20:59 |
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| jeblair | 1 minute left: | 20:59 |
| jeblair | #topic Housekeeping | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| devananda | also, I see the TC as agreeing to very few official project-wide standards | 20:59 |
| jeblair | #link Add .pyc files to gitignore https://review.openstack.org/161023 | 21:00 |
| jeblair | #link Update the Infrastructure project homepage URL https://review.openstack.org/158371 | 21:00 |
| jeblair | #link Publish the extra ATCs for projects https://review.openstack.org/161465 | 21:00 |
| devananda | where as we could produce a lot of "here's a better way to push a wagon" documentation | 21:00 |
| jeblair | i spoke with fungi and am happy with the infra homepage change we deferred last week. | 21:00 |
| jeblair | and we're out of time. thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| fungi | as long as the tc collectively is cool with the idea that not all project homepages are wiki articles | 21:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 21:00:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-10-20.06.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-10-20.06.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-10-20.06.log.html | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: done | 21:00 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: let's go make tens of US dollars on a book deal on contributor devs :) | 21:01 |
| devananda | time for me to change location again. bbi10min | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | agentle_: if I had a nickel for every bikeshed discussion... | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | who's here for the cross-project meeting? | 21:01 |
| ttx | getting kicked out of wifi | 21:01 |
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| ttx | o don't count on me | 21:01 |
| redrobot | o/ | 21:01 |
| adam_g | o/ | 21:01 |
| agentle_ | dhellmann: you'd have ten bucks! :) | 21:01 |
| * mestery waves to ttx | 21:01 | |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| fungi | dhellmann: agentle_: dollars are meatspace oldthink. cryptocurrency is now | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ttyl | 21:02 |
| * mestery lurks while starting outside at the beautiful 70 degree MN day | 21:02 | |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| fungi | ohai | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 21:02:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | Our agenda for today, as usual: | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:02 |
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| dhellmann | #topic Hacking import change | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159196/ | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hacking import change (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| dhellmann | jokke_, do you want to talk about this one? | 21:02 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| jokke_ | sure | 21:02 |
| jokke_ | So just wanted to draw bit of attention to it and get feel how people thinks | 21:03 |
| jokke_ | I think having those renames from six on their own block would help readability a lot | 21:03 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:03 |
| jokke_ | and help drive by contributors to identify what's going on at the overwrites | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | I think we recently dropped the rules to enforce separation for other types of imports, didn't we? | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | jogo: ^^ | 21:04 |
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| jokke_ | dhellmann: I think the test is not there as I couldn't find it | 21:04 |
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| dhellmann | right, I think it became too hard to determine whether a module was stdlib or not | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | so this would need more thought, and an implementation | 21:05 |
| jogo | dhellmann: yeah we don't enforce sections at all | 21:05 |
| jogo | jokke_: you are refering to putting six.* in its own section? | 21:05 |
| jokke_ | but I think there is difference between enforcing and guideline | 21:05 |
| asalkeld | so this is going to be not enforced? | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | jogo: yeah | 21:05 |
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| jokke_ | jogo: basically either whole six or the meta module renames from six.moves | 21:05 |
| jogo | my take on that is, let a few projects adopt this organically if they want | 21:05 |
| asalkeld | personally seems low value for the code churn | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | jogo: ++ | 21:05 |
| jogo | and if enough do add it in. | 21:06 |
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| jogo | but I agree with asalkeld just seems silly honestly | 21:06 |
| eglynn | asalkeld: agreed also | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | ok, please provide feedback on the review if you have an opinion and we'll see where that goes | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | #topic dropping SQL schema downgrades | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/ | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dropping SQL schema downgrades (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:07 | |
| jokke_ | well the problem seems to be that enforcing or not some people seems to be reading hacking like devil reads the bible ... so if it's not allowed there, it won't be taken in the projects | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | as was mentioned in the TC meeting, the folks at the Ops summit have expressed agreement with this | 21:07 |
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| jokke_ | IMO it just clarifies a lot if for example from six.moves import range is separate so it's easy to spot being overwriten | 21:07 |
| jogo | jokke_: each project has its own hacking file that can override/add things as needed | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | I think we'll be approving it after that event is done and the TC members who are there are back online | 21:07 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | folks, please, use the review for further discussion | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | #topic Library Stable Branch Management | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Library Stable Branch Management (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:08 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155072/ | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | We're reaching the end of the cycle, and Oslo will be following this policy this time around. | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | It would be good for the client projects to do the same, so please take a look and provide feedback if you think the policy is flawed. | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | does anyone have questions about this one? | 21:08 |
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| * jungleboyj needs to read that. :-) | 21:09 | |
| asalkeld | i haven't read that | 21:09 |
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| dhellmann | please do, the intent is for it to apply to all client libraries | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | it's important that we coordinate how we handle them now that we're capping requirements in stable branches | 21:09 |
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| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Will do. | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/162656 | 21:10 |
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| dhellmann | ^^ has the caps for oslo libs so far | 21:10 |
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| dhellmann | the goal is to strike a balance between releasing libraries as needed and maintaining stable branches for the app stable branches to use | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | #topic managing stable branch requirements | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161047/ | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "managing stable branch requirements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:12 | |
| dhellmann | somewhat related to the previous one, this spec calls for even tighter pinning of requirements | 21:12 |
| asalkeld | dang, the spec keep rolling ;) | 21:12 |
| adam_g | i just pushed up a new patchset there based on lots of discussion last week | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | this will also have an impact on how testing works in some cases | 21:13 |
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| dhellmann | adam_g: good, I need to catch up on the latest draft | 21:13 |
| adam_g | i think we have a good path for managing things centrally as opposed to relying on bot syncs to merge into projects | 21:13 |
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| adam_g | one question i had, and would ask to consider in feedback, is if we want to require developers making changes to global-requirements.txt to be responsible for keeping a corresponding .gate file up to date. this feels similar to sample config files, which have been painful for some | 21:14 |
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| dhellmann | yes, it is a similar issue -- things outside of your control can make that file become out of date | 21:15 |
| jokke_ | quick question as I'm notthat familiar with pbr ... does it support something like <major>.<minor>-stable<num>? | 21:15 |
| adam_g | alternative is to keep that entirely bot managed--not sure if we do anything similar currently, will need to check with -infra folk | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: we use semver, and the patch version for that | 21:15 |
| jokke_ | dhellmann: so does our libs support that? | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | adam_g: I think only by having the bot submit changes, but the infra team might know otherwise | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: in what sense? | 21:16 |
| jokke_ | dhellmann: thinking that capping for stables. Do wi cap on minor and expect that in no case the .patch will break to fix bugs affecting stable or do we need to make some circus moves on stable versioning to fix the bugs? | 21:17 |
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| fungi | we don't have any jobs which automatically change contents of git repos, if that's what you're asking | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: that is part of what the spec is talking about | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: we currently assume that patch releases are stable | 21:17 |
| adam_g | fungi, yeah, essentially | 21:17 |
| fungi | we only have jobs which propose new patches to git repositories and then humans need to inspect and approve them | 21:18 |
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| adam_g | fungi, thats what i thought | 21:18 |
| fungi | this is a safety valve in my opinion | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | fungi: ++ | 21:18 |
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| fungi | otherwise, you risk some interesting feedback loops | 21:18 |
| adam_g | yup | 21:18 |
| fungi | also skynet ;) | 21:18 |
| jokke_ | dhellmann: ok, will put the question there then as at least by first read that was not clear to me ;) | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | are there other questions on stable branches, libraries, and requirements? | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: ok | 21:19 |
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| jokke_ | dhellmann: in general I like both of those specs that was just the only thing left unclear, on which level we do those | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155072/ I am proposing that we trust our own library maintainers and in adam_g and jogo are proposing a tighter safety net | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | oops, in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161047/3 | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | #topic Return Request ID to caller | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Return Request ID to caller (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:21 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156508/ | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | There was some discussion last week of making this more general. | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | There is a new draft up, so it's ready for another read-through. | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | the name of the file still says cinder, though, so maybe there's more work to be done | 21:22 |
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| dhellmann | #topic Other open specs | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack%2Fopenstack-specs+is:open,n,z | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | There are a bunch of other specs that have few comments or votes. | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | Democracy only works if you participate! :-) | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other open specs (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:23 | |
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| dhellmann | does anyone have any specs they want to highlight? | 21:24 |
| asalkeld | dhellmann: we spend most of our day "voting" ;) | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: you have no idea :-) | 21:24 |
| asalkeld | phew | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | #topic Oslo feature freeze | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo feature freeze (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:24 | |
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| dhellmann | Oslo's official freeze is the 12th, thursday | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | however, we have released most of our libraries already and our goal is to make those releases the last versions for this cycle | 21:25 |
| asalkeld | brb, waking kids up | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | we'll be working on updating the requirements lists in projects following the process described in the spec mentioned earlier after thursday | 21:26 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: +1 | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | that should give plenty of time to land the requirements changes in all of the other projects before the release candidate period starts | 21:26 |
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| dhellmann | #topic open discussion | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:27 | |
| dhellmann | does anyone else have anything to raise this week? | 21:27 |
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| asalkeld | not from me | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | are there issues to be addressed as we head into the feature freeze period? | 21:27 |
| * devananda returns, catches up on scrollback | 21:27 | |
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| asalkeld | dhellmann: that's the 19'th ? | 21:28 |
| * dhellmann would like to cut the meeting short, and end in ~3 min | 21:28 | |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: yes, that's right | 21:28 |
| asalkeld | the last scramble.. | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | that will be the feature, string, and dependency freeze | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | according to the schedule the feature proposal freeze, for projects that follow that, has already passed | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 21:29 |
| asalkeld | yip | 21:29 |
| jungleboyj | Yep. For Cinder today is the last day to merge new features. | 21:29 |
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| jungleboyj | Wanted some time before the official freeze to make sure nothing broke badly. | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | jungleboyj: nice, I didn't realize you were cutting off early, too | 21:29 |
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| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Yep, has caused some confusion for those trying to get bug fixes in. | 21:30 |
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| dhellmann | jungleboyj: I can imagine | 21:30 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Not sure where my remaining Oslo changes will hang. | 21:30 |
| jokke_ | glance is cutting out at Thu as well | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | jungleboyj: maybe early in liberty? | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: that's good to know, thanks | 21:31 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, if people don't want them in the next couple of days. Have been busy reviewing code for others. | 21:31 |
| * dhellmann nods | 21:32 | |
| dhellmann | unless anyone else has anything to bring up I propose that we adjourn | 21:32 |
| asalkeld | yip, thanks dhellmann | 21:32 |
| jokke_ | o/~ | 21:32 |
| jokke_ | thanks | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | go spend the extra 25 minutes reviewing patches :-) | 21:32 |
| jungleboyj | +2 Thanks! | 21:32 |
| eglynn | thanks all | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | thanks, everyone | 21:32 |
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| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 21:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 21:32:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-10-21.02.html | 21:32 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-10-21.02.txt | 21:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-10-21.02.log.html | 21:32 |
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