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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 9 08:00:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | and we're off | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | anyone in addition to me around for the third-party meeting? | 08:00 |
| heyongli | anteaya, hi | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | hey heyongli | 08:00 |
| heyongli | and hello everyone, | 08:00 |
| Murad | Hello | 08:01 |
| anteaya | hello Murad | 08:01 |
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| heyongli | Murad, hi | 08:01 |
| anteaya | Murad: do you have a running ci at the moment? | 08:01 |
| Murad | Hi everybody | 08:01 |
| nuritv__ | Hello | 08:01 |
| anteaya | hello nuritv__ | 08:02 |
| Murad | yes, but still in testing things | 08:02 |
| anteaya | Murad: which one is it? | 08:02 |
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| jyuso | Hi,everyone | 08:02 |
| omrim_ | Hello, good morning.. | 08:02 |
| anteaya | hello omrim_ | 08:02 |
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| sweston | hello everyone | 08:03 |
| anteaya | omrim_: remind me which ci is yours | 08:03 |
| anteaya | hello sweston | 08:03 |
| omrim_ | anteaya: I am from Mellanox CI :) | 08:03 |
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| anteaya | omrim_: ah terrific, so you are with nuritv__ | 08:03 |
| heyongli | hi, omrim_ , | 08:04 |
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| Murad | I am from Mellanox CI as well | 08:04 |
| anteaya | oh terrific | 08:04 |
| omrim_ | anteaya: Yes With Nuritv and Murad | 08:04 |
| anteaya | mellanox is well represented then | 08:04 |
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| anteaya | wonderful | 08:04 |
| anteaya | I thought mellanox was already working | 08:04 |
| anteaya | am I mistaken? | 08:04 |
| omrim_ | heyongli: Hello | 08:04 |
| heyongli | jyuso and is from Intel Ci | 08:05 |
| anteaya | heyongli: ah wonderful | 08:05 |
| anteaya | jyuso had a question we are going to try to answer for him | 08:05 |
| omrim_ | anteaya: Mellanox is do working in Neutron project. | 08:05 |
| anteaya | omrim_: ah, okay thanks | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | so for this first meeting mostly I wanted a chance for everyone to get to know each other | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | then we can discuss what people want to accomplish | 08:06 |
| anteaya | and how best we can use this time | 08:06 |
| omrim_ | anteaya: So everyone should say his name and his favorite color..:) | 08:07 |
| anteaya | his or her | 08:07 |
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| anteaya | and sure, that might be a nice way to begin | 08:07 |
| anteaya | omrim_: would you like to go first? | 08:07 |
| omrim_ | anteaya: Sure his or her..sorry | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | no problem | 08:08 |
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| omrim_ | anteaya: My name is Omri I am from Mellanox and My best color is Red! | 08:08 |
| anteaya | great thanks omrim | 08:08 |
| anteaya | anyone else want to take turn? | 08:08 |
| heyongli | i'm Yongli He, from intel CI, also fans red, hope you guy say to me on irc, then i got many many line red! | 08:08 |
| anteaya | glad you like red then, you see a lot of it :D | 08:09 |
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| Murad | My name is Murad from Mellanox CI, my favorite color is blue | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | thank you murad | 08:09 |
| anteaya | who is next? | 08:10 |
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| sweston | My name is Steve, from Triniplex, and my favorite color is green (especially when Jenkins reports success) :-) | 08:10 |
| jhesketh | Howdy | 08:10 |
| * jhesketh will be watching not very closely but can be pinged | 08:10 | |
| anteaya | thanks jhesketh | 08:11 |
| anteaya | thanks steve | 08:11 |
| jyuso | My name is Jiang Yu,come from Intel CI,I like blue. Nice to meet you,guys:) | 08:11 |
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| anteaya | wonderful thank you Jiang | 08:11 |
| trinaths | Hi | 08:11 |
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| anteaya | would I say Jiang or would I say Yu? | 08:11 |
| jyuso | Yu is better:) | 08:11 |
| anteaya | jyuso: thank you, I learned something new | 08:11 |
| anteaya | jyuso: thank you Yu | 08:12 |
| anteaya | hello trinaths | 08:12 |
| anteaya | omrim_: are you able to tell trinaths what we are doing? | 08:12 |
| trinaths | Hi anteaya, and all | 08:12 |
| omrim_ | Sure | 08:12 |
| trinaths | I'm late to the meeting.. | 08:13 |
| omrim_ | trinaths: The purpose of this meeting is to discuss issue and new features in Openstack CI and infrastructure | 08:14 |
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| anteaya | omrim_: and what are we doing right now? | 08:15 |
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| trinaths | okay. | 08:15 |
| anteaya | so that trinaths can participate | 08:15 |
| heyongli | we are introduce to each other , trinaths . -:) | 08:15 |
| trinaths | Okay, | 08:16 |
| anteaya | omrim_ | anteaya: So everyone should say his name and his favorite color..:) | 08:16 |
| anteaya | trinaths: do you want to take a turn? | 08:16 |
| trinaths | yes | 08:16 |
| trinaths | My Name is Trinath Somanchi, from Freescale. Maintainer of Freescale CI from Juno. My favourite color white. Excited to meet you all. :) | 08:17 |
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| anteaya | wonderful thank you trinaths | 08:17 |
| anteaya | my name is Anita, I work with the OpenStack infra team, my favourite colour is purple | 08:18 |
| anteaya | anyone else? | 08:18 |
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| itzikb_ | Hi, I'm Itzik from Redhat. Color can't be other than red.. | 08:18 |
| anteaya | itzikb_: ha ha ha | 08:18 |
| trinaths | itzikb_: :) | 08:18 |
| anteaya | itzikb_: hello and glad to have you here | 08:18 |
| itzikb_ | anteaya: tnx ;-0 | 08:18 |
| itzikb_ | :-) | 08:19 |
| anteaya | :D | 08:19 |
| anteaya | anyone else? | 08:19 |
| omrim_ | itzikb_: :) | 08:19 |
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| anteaya | okays so let's move on | 08:19 |
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| anteaya | it is nice to meet you all | 08:19 |
| anteaya | thanks for suggesting a good icebreaker omrim_ | 08:20 |
| anteaya | so we will meet together for a bit | 08:20 |
| anteaya | and gradually we will come up with a structure for meetings | 08:20 |
| anteaya | and a sense of purpose for them | 08:20 |
| anteaya | part of it will be getting news from other programs | 08:21 |
| anteaya | and part of it will be for all of you to help each other | 08:21 |
| anteaya | so in the interest of helping each other | 08:21 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 08:21 |
| * SergeyLukjanov lurking | 08:21 | |
| anteaya | jyuso had a question he asked earlier in the -infra channel | 08:21 |
| anteaya | hello SergeyLukjanov and welcome | 08:21 |
| anteaya | SergeyLukjanov: did you want to introduce yourself and share your favourite colour? | 08:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | anteaya, sure | 08:22 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | Sergey Lukjanov, Sahara CI, ??? | 08:23 |
| anteaya | no favourite colour? | 08:23 |
| * SergeyLukjanov not sure about colour | 08:23 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | most probably it's red | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | red seems to be a popular choice with this group | 08:23 |
| anteaya | :D | 08:23 |
| anteaya | thanks SergeyLukjanov | 08:24 |
| anteaya | so let's get to jyuso's question | 08:24 |
| anteaya | jyuso: I know you already got one answer in -infra | 08:24 |
| jyuso | anteaya: yes | 08:24 |
| anteaya | jyuso: do you mind sharing your question | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | so that others can know what you asked? | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: do you remember what you asked? | 08:26 |
| jyuso | Yes.I'm confused about why the content of compressed logs("xxx.txt.gz") couldn't be previewed on my browser.It will be downloaded after clicked.I want to know how to configure Apache server if I want to preview compressed logs.That's my question. | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | great thank you jyuso | 08:26 |
| anteaya | this is a very common question | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | now jyuso did get a reply in the -infra channel | 08:26 |
| anteaya | and I would like common type questions like this to be brought and addressed in third-party meetings | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | we have two a week now, so there are more opportunites for people to get answers to common questions | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | how would others in the meeting answer this question? | 08:27 |
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| omrim_ | anteaya: Maybe we should create a FAQ page for a common questions/issues | 08:28 |
| anteaya | omrim_: that is a good idea | 08:28 |
| anteaya | omrim_: would you like to offer a patch to the third_party.rst file? | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/system-config/tree/doc/source/third_party.rst | 08:29 |
| anteaya | omrim_: you can start a section and provide a response to jyuso's question | 08:30 |
| anteaya | omrim_: does that sound like something you would be willing to offer a patch for? | 08:31 |
| omrim_ | anteaya: Sure | 08:31 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:31 |
| jyuso | omrim_: Thank you | 08:31 |
| anteaya | in the meantime, how would you reply to jyuso's question? | 08:31 |
| anteaya | open question to anyone | 08:31 |
| omrim_ | anteaya: I sorry for the question the "third_party.rst" file is a spec file that for such an idea like FAQ page? | 08:31 |
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| omrim_ | **that is used for | 08:32 |
| anteaya | omrim_: no we do'nt need a spec file, just offer a patch and it will be reviewed | 08:32 |
| anteaya | jyuso: okay so noone else has a reply | 08:32 |
| anteaya | jyuso: would you care to share the reply you got in the -infra channel? | 08:33 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: OK | 08:33 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:33 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: It is a Apache conf file from dougwig.URL:https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/t1Yx0e8y | 08:34 |
| anteaya | great | 08:34 |
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| heyongli | jyuso, is it verified? | 08:34 |
| anteaya | from a quick glance I would say this is the important part: <FilesMatch ".*\.gz$"> | 08:35 |
| anteaya | ForceType text/plain | 08:35 |
| anteaya | </FilesMatch> | 08:35 |
| jyuso | heyongli: not working yet. | 08:35 |
| anteaya | heyongli: this was a conf file from someone else who solved the problem with this file | 08:35 |
| heyongli | jyuso, anteaya, cool. | 08:36 |
| anteaya | and this is a problem every new ci operator encounters | 08:36 |
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| anteaya | so omrim_'s idea is a good one, capturing a response in a section of frequently asked questions will be helpful | 08:36 |
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| anteaya | at the very least when people ask this question in meetings or on the mailing list, you can provide a link to the file that contains a useful reply | 08:37 |
| anteaya | so this is wonderful thank you | 08:37 |
| anteaya | does anyone else have any questions about the operation of their ci system right now? | 08:37 |
| heyongli | it's great. | 08:37 |
| anteaya | :D | 08:38 |
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| anteaya | okay so I'm going to move on then | 08:39 |
| trinaths | do we need to upgrade Zuul upon its new releases? | 08:39 |
| anteaya | some things to be aware of | 08:39 |
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| anteaya | trinaths: that is a good question | 08:39 |
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| anteaya | let's see if SergeyLukjanov or jhesketh are available to share their thoughts on that question | 08:39 |
| * SergeyLukjanov reading the log | 08:39 | |
| anteaya | the question was trinaths about zuul upgrades | 08:40 |
| anteaya | when zuul has a new release | 08:40 |
| anteaya | what are the recommendations about upgrading? | 08:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we have no releases for zuul | 08:40 |
| anteaya | that makes that easy | 08:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | puppet updates the code after each commit | 08:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | merged | 08:40 |
| anteaya | trinaths: does that help? | 08:41 |
| trinaths | SergeyLukjanov: okay. | 08:41 |
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| trinaths | anteaya: yes. | 08:41 |
| anteaya | great | 08:41 |
| anteaya | trinaths: thanks for the question and thank you SergeyLukjanov for the reply | 08:41 |
| anteaya | any other questions right now? | 08:41 |
| SergeyLukjanov | anteaya, np | 08:41 |
| jhesketh | All changes to zuul are backwards compatible. We will do a release if we need to break something in the future | 08:41 |
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| anteaya | thanks jhesketh | 08:42 |
| omrim_ | I have an update | 08:42 |
| sweston | I have another suggestion for jyuso | 08:42 |
| anteaya | omrim_: please go ahead | 08:42 |
| anteaya | okay thanks sweston let's let omrim_ go first you can be next | 08:42 |
| sweston | of course, omrim_ you have the floor :-) | 08:43 |
| omrim_ | If someone try to install devstack with the nova master branch | 08:43 |
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| jyuso | Hi.sweston.Thank you for your suggestion:) | 08:43 |
| omrim_ | He could see that the nova api would not be start... | 08:43 |
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| omrim_ | In oreder to fix that all you have to do is to update the python: retrying package | 08:44 |
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| omrim_ | So the version should be: 1.3.2: | 08:44 |
| omrim_ | >>> pkg_resources.get_distribution('retrying').version '1.3.2' | 08:44 |
| omrim_ | The Devstack error is:014-12-09 08:04:59.729 | + echo 'Waiting for nova-api to start...' 2014-12-09 08:04:59.729 | Waiting for nova-api to start... 2014-12-09 08:04:59.729 | + wait_for_service 60 http://10.209.32.236:8774 2014-12-09 08:04:59.729 | + local timeout=60 2014-12-09 08:04:59.729 | + local url=http://10.209.32.236:8774 2014-12-09 08:04:59.729 | + timeout 60 sh -c 'while ! curl -k --noproxy '\''*'\'' -s http://10. | 08:45 |
| anteaya | okay so this is a great reminder of when to use paste.openstack.org | 08:45 |
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| anteaya | so for code that is more than 2 lines long, please use paste.openstack.org to share code samples | 08:46 |
| anteaya | okay thank you omrim_ | 08:46 |
| omrim_ | Sure, Next time..Thanks | 08:46 |
| anteaya | omrim_: thank you | 08:46 |
| anteaya | anyone with any questions or comments for omrim_ on this example? | 08:46 |
| heyongli | omrim_, great to know , thank you. | 08:47 |
| anteaya | okay great, thank you omrim_ | 08:47 |
| anteaya | sweston: you're up | 08:47 |
| sweston | ok, so if that code snipped you already have doesn't work for the log server, please try this one: http://paste.openstack.org/show/147724/ | 08:48 |
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| anteaya | sweston: can you share how yours is different? | 08:49 |
| sweston | the output filter needs to be there, I believe | 08:49 |
| jyuso | sweston: Thanks.It looks like a ".htaccess" conf file.was it? | 08:50 |
| omrim_ | sweston: Where this code should be snipped? | 08:50 |
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| sweston | jyuso: omrim_ good question, so this would go into the apache config file in between the document root tags | 08:50 |
| omrim_ | sweston: Thanks | 08:51 |
| anteaya | thanks sweston | 08:52 |
| itzikb_ | I want to ask which tests are running in third party testing? API ? | 08:52 |
| sweston | omrim_: anteaya you're welcome | 08:52 |
| anteaya | itzikb_: let's just finish sweston's item and then we can address your question | 08:52 |
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| jyuso | sweston: thanks | 08:52 |
| anteaya | jyuso: so when you have an apache conf file that works for you | 08:52 |
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| sweston | jyuso: you're welcome | 08:53 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: can you review omrim_'s patch so that you can share your experience in your review? | 08:53 |
| jyuso | anteaya: OK,no problem. | 08:53 |
| anteaya | jyuso: thank you | 08:53 |
| anteaya | so omrim_ when you have a patch, ping jyuso with the url please | 08:54 |
| anteaya | okay so itzikb_'s question | 08:54 |
| anteaya | which tests are running is the question I believe | 08:54 |
| itzikb_ | anteaya: yes | 08:54 |
| anteaya | and the answer depends on which repo you are testing | 08:54 |
| anteaya | which repo or repos do you want to test? | 08:55 |
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| itzikb_ | anteaya: I'm talking about checking basic connectivity | 08:55 |
| anteaya | does anyone have a reply to itzikb_'s question? | 08:56 |
| omrim_ | jyuso: In which IRC channel can I found you? (Sorry for the interupt) | 08:56 |
| trinaths | itzikb_: can you be clear on basic connectivity? | 08:57 |
| jyuso | omrim_: openstack-infra is OK.:) | 08:57 |
| omrim_ | itzikb_: Are you talking about Scenarios? | 08:57 |
| itzikb_ | omrim_: yes | 08:57 |
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| omrim_ | itzikb_: So has anteaya mentiond it's depend in which job and infrastucture (SRIOV, OVS etc..) | 08:58 |
| itzikb_ | omrim_: ok So i'll be more specific - SR-IOV | 08:58 |
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| anteaya | we are almost at time | 08:59 |
| anteaya | itzikb_: SR-IOV is fairly specific | 08:59 |
| anteaya | and we are just getting things in place to test that | 08:59 |
| heyongli | itzikb_, the testcases for SRIOV/pci is under discuss. i think. | 08:59 |
| anteaya | itzikb_: can you follow the mailing list thread with the [telcos] filter | 09:00 |
| omrim_ | itzikb_: There should be some basic senario for connectiviy (Broders\Non Broders connectivity) | 09:00 |
| anteaya | and I believe sgordon chairs a meeting on SR-IOV as well, it might be a good idea to attend that | 09:00 |
| anteaya | and we are at time | 09:00 |
| anteaya | this was a very productive meeting | 09:00 |
| anteaya | I would like to thank everyone for attending | 09:01 |
| anteaya | thanks so much for sharing | 09:01 |
| heyongli | thanks anteaya . | 09:01 |
| anteaya | we have to end here | 09:01 |
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| trinaths | thanks anteaya | 09:01 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 09:01 |
| heyongli | then, see you | 09:01 |
| omrim_ | Thank you! | 09:01 |
| anteaya | thank you | 09:01 |
| sweston | thanks everyone | 09:01 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:01 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 9 09:01:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-12-09-08.00.html | 09:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-12-09-08.00.txt | 09:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2014/third_party.2014-12-09-08.00.log.html | 09:01 |
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| n0ano | bummer, Neutron must not have met today so I don't get to kick anyone out :-) | 14:59 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 9 15:00:03 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| bauzas | \o/ | 15:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | \o | 15:00 |
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| alex_xu | hello, all, first time join this meeting :) | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | alex_xu, welcome | 15:00 |
| edleafe | \o | 15:00 |
| alex_xu | n0ano, thanks! :) | 15:00 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: welcome on board | 15:00 |
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| alex_xu | bauzas, thanks! | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | alex_xu: isn't quite an awful time for you ? | 15:01 |
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| alex_xu | bauzas, it's fine, just late sleep time about one hour | 15:01 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: GMT+8 ? | 15:01 |
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| alex_xu | bauzas, yes, now it's 11pm | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | ah | 15:02 |
| n0ano | bauzas, should be 11PM his time (I don't even go to bed then) | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | wow, my timezone is correct, that's a first :-) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | anyway, let | 15:02 |
| n0ano | anyway, let's start | 15:02 |
| bauzas | n0ano: hell, I know how it's cool to attend 11pm's meetings, so I truly appreciate his presence :) | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | #topic forklift status | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "forklift status (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:03 | |
| bauzas | I guess it's the only topic we have to cover ? | 15:03 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I see you got another spec approved, congratulation | 15:03 |
| n0ano | bauzas, that & opens | 15:03 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yeah that's cool | 15:03 |
| bauzas | n0ano: the one dependent is having one +2 | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | maybe some pointers could be useful actually | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gantt/kilo#Tasks | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | #info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127610/ has been approved | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127612/ is having one +2 | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | so we're in a good shape for both acceptance by K2 | 15:05 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, 127612 is rather critical, do you see a problem with getting the second +2 | 15:06 |
| bauzas | even if we can't make the second for spec freeze, I think we have good chances to get an exception | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: nope, not really, maybe the filt_props merge with req_spec could be debatable | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: but nothing really needing a -2 | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | sounds cautiously optimistic then | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: eh | 15:07 |
| n0ano | I prefer to let that work it's way through | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: sounds pragmaticly optimistic :) | 15:07 |
| n0ano | about the others | 15:07 |
| n0ano | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127609/ | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/ is having a -2 from johnthetubaguy | 15:07 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: around ? | 15:08 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: Gantt meeting eh ;) | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I can see some implementation proposal which seems good to me | 15:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: this spec is having -1 tho | 15:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: but it seems it's a nitpikc | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so I'm still confident | 15:09 |
| n0ano | we still on 89893, the only thing I see is an x from garbutt | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: if you see the -1, it comes from something missing | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yeah, so 89893 | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so, I had a crossbar from him because he was not liking my former proposal | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so we google hangouted 2 weeks ago | 15:10 |
| n0ano | yeah, his comment was like the approach, issues with the implementation, those should be resolvable | 15:10 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and the new PS is based on our discussions | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: unfortunately, john is on travel these days, so that's hard to get him | 15:10 |
| bauzas | n0ano: in order to ask him to remove his now procedural -2 | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | my concern is the spec freeze next week, are we at risk of missing that? | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: that said, still on the spec, I'm really interested in getting feedback from you and the team | 15:11 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I don't think so | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: by discussing with john, I've been told that priorities are in good shape for asking exceptions | 15:12 |
| edleafe | And 138444 will follow the same pattern as 89893, so that should be done right after | 15:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and both missing approvals are quite having consensus now | 15:12 |
| bauzas | edleafe: yeah, that sounds feasible | 15:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: to be clear, K1 is not the spec freeze | 15:12 |
| n0ano | bauzas, edleafe cool, so the table looks iffy but the reality is we're in reasonable shape | 15:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's somewhere in between K1 and K2 | 15:13 |
| n0ano | bauzas, that's not my understanding, I thought from the Nova meeting last week 12/18 was the spec freeze date | 15:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: but I will chase this up in the next Nova meeting on Thurs | 15:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I hope to see a spec "proposal" freeze | 15:13 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, good to confirm that but I think we're in good shape either way | 15:14 |
| bauzas | n0ano: as I said, things are different if you're working on a priority thing | 15:14 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:14 |
| bauzas | n0ano: agreed | 15:14 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so, in front of implementation patches | 15:14 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I have one small tactical victory | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | that's fresh news | 15:15 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126372/19 | 15:15 |
| bauzas | is merged | 15:15 |
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| n0ano | I remember that, good news | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | that's the first patch of the bp/detach-service-from-computenode series | 15:15 |
| bauzas | the next 3 ones are also in a good shape | 15:16 |
| bauzas | *but* | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | somewhere in the series, I'm objectifying calls to compute_nodes table | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | I can try to delay this patch the farest I can | 15:16 |
| bauzas | because that's blocked due to pci_stats missing | 15:17 |
| bauzas | in the ComputeNode Object | 15:17 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, is that blocked on jay's resource object model changes? | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: not at all | 15:18 |
| bauzas | n0ano: this patch is independent | 15:18 |
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| n0ano | well that's good, I worry when both you and jay are talking about objects in different areas | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: basically, I'm changing how scheduler, cells and API are accessing compute_nodes table | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: all the calls will be done using the ComputeNodeList.get_all() object method | 15:19 |
| bauzas | jaypipes was also working on the same thing in the HostManager | 15:19 |
| n0ano | but you both have to deal with the PCI info | 15:20 |
| bauzas | *but* both of us are blocked because we can't yet use the ComputeNode object as it's missing the pci_stats thing | 15:20 |
| bauzas | n0ano: exactly | 15:20 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137847/ | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: ^ is the patch fixing that | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: led by Paul Murray | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: but some details need to be fixed | 15:20 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so as I'm blocked, I'm leaving this bp/detach-service-from-computenode series | 15:21 |
| n0ano | I trust paul but it looks like he's got some issues to resolve, might take a little work | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: exactly | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so my strategy is to descope from this blueprint (which was targeted for K1) and work on the request-spec-object BP which was targeted for K2 - in advance | 15:22 |
| jaypipes | hey guys, sorry... stepped away for a bit. | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: and leave the good bits from detach-service to be merged when possible - until the object patch | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, sounds like a plan | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so I actually provided a first patch for request-spec-object | 15:23 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/139684 | 15:23 |
| bauzas | that's not that important but it was left in the spec to upgrade the RPC API version | 15:23 |
| jaypipes | yeah, guys, I was at an offsit all last part of last week so still playing catchup on reviews and emails. :( | 15:23 |
| bauzas | so did I | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: no worries, feel free to rewind the backlog ;) | 15:24 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, no excuses, the internet is everywhere :-) | 15:24 |
| * bauzas can see the difference of hospitality in between bauzas and n0ano | 15:24 | |
| * n0ano has a tendency to crack the whip a bit :-) | 15:24 | |
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| bauzas | :) | 15:25 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, summary, yet another spec approved, cautiosly optimistic, lots of reviews needed | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | eh, we're working ;) | 15:25 |
| n0ano | s/cautiosly/cautiously | 15:25 |
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| n0ano | jaypipes, anyway, the big one for you is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/resource-objects any update on that | 15:26 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: waiting on follow up round of reviews from folks, including danpb. But it's generally waiting for the work from ptm and bauzas, so I've been focusing on reviewing those patch series. | 15:27 |
| jaypipes | along with all the nUMA objects stuff, which was a crap-ton of work. | 15:27 |
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| n0ano | sounds like there's no major problem, `just do it` | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: are you blocked on me ? | 15:28 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: orly ? | 15:29 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: how can I help you then ? | 15:29 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: nope, not blocked on you... just need to wait for your objects changes to land before I continue with more work on the resourc eobjects. | 15:29 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: you mean the RequestSpec object ? | 15:31 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: or the objectification of calls to compute_nodes table ? | 15:31 |
| * bauzas thinks the word "object" is definitely too wide now :) | 15:31 | |
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| n0ano | bauzas, not too wide, we just have a lot of work related to objects | 15:32 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: the objectification of calls to the compute_nodes table. | 15:32 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: oh ok | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: as I said previously, I'm not targeting to work on this until paul's patch merges | 15:33 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: yes, understood. | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: so https://review.openstack.org/137847 is the top priority then :) | 15:33 |
| jaypipes | yes | 15:33 |
| bauzas | n0ano: ^ | 15:33 |
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| n0ano | sigh, xchat just crashed, I'm back now, what did I miss? | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | we were just asking you to work | 15:34 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:34 |
| bauzas | n0ano: https://review.openstack.org/137847 is top prio | 15:34 |
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| n0ano | you can ask, whether you can get me to do it is a different thing | 15:34 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so reviews are welcome | 15:34 |
| n0ano | OK, good to know, as always - review, review, review | 15:34 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'll ask paul if he has time for fixing the comments before I'm putting this patch on the magical etherpad | 15:35 |
| bauzas | the magical etherpad being the one figuring all the patches related to the priorities | 15:35 |
| n0ano | bauzas, OK, let me know how that turns out, I don't want all of us beating up on paul, one is enough | 15:35 |
| bauzas | the ones we want to have core coverage | 15:35 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: eh he's English, I'm French, I'm fine if we're beating him :) | 15:36 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 (good one) | 15:36 |
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| n0ano | I think I'll add a footnote to our task table point out this dependency, it's important | 15:37 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: I'm British too :) | 15:37 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: we all do errors | 15:37 |
| jaypipes | ha! | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | hah, my ancestry is English/German, bauzas `really` hates me :-) | 15:37 |
| bauzas | that's really sad to talk about paul and not even lt him | 15:37 |
| jaypipes | ok, time to wrap up this meeting :) | 15:38 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, not quite... | 15:38 |
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| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:38 | |
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| n0ano | anyone have anything new for today? | 15:38 |
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| * n0ano listens to the crickets | 15:39 | |
| bauzas | eh | 15:39 |
| bauzas | we're in winter | 15:39 |
| alex_xu | I'm try to add rescheduling and fix race of instance group https://review.openstack.org/139843, welcome review | 15:39 |
| n0ano | OK, we can close but remember - reviews | 15:39 |
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| bauzas | alex_xu: yeah I reviewed your series | 15:39 |
| jaypipes | alex_xu: will do. thx for letting us nkow! | 15:40 |
| alex_xu | bauzas, thanks for your comment! | 15:40 |
| alex_xu | jaypipes, thanks | 15:40 |
| n0ano | OK, tnx everyone, talk next week | 15:40 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 9 15:40:28 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-12-09-15.00.html | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-12-09-15.00.txt | 15:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-12-09-15.00.log.html | 15:40 |
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| alex_xu | iit's not urgent, the cleanup work is more important | 15:41 |
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| msdubov_ | #startmeeting Rally | 17:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 9 17:06:56 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is msdubov_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:06 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:07 |
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| msdubov_ | rvasilets Hi :) | 17:07 |
| rvasilets | Hi | 17:07 |
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| redixin | sup | 17:07 |
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| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1, redixin, hi! | 17:07 |
| amaretskiy1 | hi | 17:07 |
| msdubov_ | andreykurilin, hi! | 17:07 |
| andreykurilin | o/ | 17:07 |
| msdubov_ | olkonami hi :) | 17:08 |
| olkonami | hi | 17:08 |
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| msdubov_ | Okay let's start! | 17:08 |
| msdubov_ | #topic NetworkContext | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "NetworkContext (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:08 | |
| msdubov_ | amaretskiy What was your progress with this during the past week? | 17:09 |
| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1, Is it ready to use? | 17:09 |
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| amaretskiy1 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103306/ is usable | 17:09 |
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| amaretskiy1 | but tests are incomplete | 17:09 |
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| amaretskiy1 | so I'm going to submit final patch set in next 2 hours | 17:10 |
| amaretskiy1 | and the patch will be ready to final review | 17:10 |
| andreykurilin | great! | 17:10 |
| amaretskiy1 | I believe we will merge it soon | 17:10 |
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| amaretskiy1 | eom | 17:11 |
| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1 Great! Have you done some testing on it? Because there are guys out there interested in this, so it is important to be sure it works when we are giving them a link to this patchset | 17:11 |
| amaretskiy1 | I have local fuel on VirtualBox | 17:11 |
| andreykurilin | amaretskiy1, what about add more scenarios to gate-rally-dsvm-neutron-rally job? This can help be sure that network context works correctly | 17:11 |
| amaretskiy1 | with two small clusters | 17:11 |
| redixin | it would be nice to get feedback from that guys if something is broken | 17:12 |
| amaretskiy1 | one with nova-network and another is with neutron | 17:12 |
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| amaretskiy1 | so everything is working for me | 17:12 |
| amaretskiy1 | eom | 17:12 |
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| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1, Okay, thanks! | 17:13 |
| amaretskiy1 | there is a scenario added within the patch | 17:13 |
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| amaretskiy1 | single scenario | 17:13 |
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| amaretskiy1 | eom | 17:13 |
| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1:Well tell a bit about this scenario, please :) | 17:13 |
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| amaretskiy1 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103306/87/rally-jobs/rally.yaml,cm | 17:13 |
| amaretskiy1 | take a look at context: network: { ... } | 17:14 |
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| amaretskiy1 | here we have a scenario with network context enabled | 17:14 |
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| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1:I see | 17:14 |
| msdubov_ | andreykurilin, Do you think this is enough? | 17:14 |
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| andreykurilin | msdubov_: hm | 17:15 |
| andreykurilin | msdubov_: this is new scenario for gate-rally-dsvm-rally, but i want new scenarios for gate-rally-dsvm-neutron-rally :) | 17:15 |
| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1 ^ | 17:16 |
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| amaretskiy1 | yep, I will add one | 17:16 |
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| msdubov_ | Okay | 17:16 |
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| msdubov_ | #topic gate-rally-dsvm-verify gate job | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gate-rally-dsvm-verify gate job (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:17 | |
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| msdubov_ | So we have a new job for everything tempest-related | 17:17 |
| andreykurilin | \o/ | 17:17 |
| msdubov_ | like launching verification tests via Tempest | 17:18 |
| msdubov_ | or functional testing for the verification part | 17:18 |
| msdubov_ | So andreykurilin, could you please tell us a bit about the progress here? | 17:18 |
| andreykurilin | msdubov_: sure | 17:18 |
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| andreykurilin | the patch, whcih configure this job, is ready for review | 17:19 |
| andreykurilin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139262/ | 17:19 |
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| andreykurilin | the results page of this job looks like other rally jobs | 17:19 |
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| andreykurilin | #link http://logs.openstack.org/62/139262/30/check/gate-rally-dsvm-verify/d21e464/ | 17:19 |
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| andreykurilin | this job runs two verifications, display the results in different formats and finally compare them | 17:20 |
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| andreykurilin | recently, "compute" set is used for testng verification, but in future I wants to add random selecter for set name | 17:21 |
| andreykurilin | this will have to increse coverage | 17:21 |
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| msdubov_ | andreykurilin, Nice! One more thing to clafiry: are you going to add some functional tests like those you removed from tests/functional/test_cli_verify.py, or will you leave it as is? | 17:22 |
| andreykurilin | also, "rally task " command will be added for tempest tasks | 17:22 |
| andreykurilin | msdubov_: I don't want to add any functional tests in tests/functional/test_cli_verify.py | 17:23 |
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| andreykurilin | msdubov_: I prefer to delete this module in near future | 17:23 |
| msdubov_ | andreykurili Okay, and what about that "rally task" command? What will it look like? | 17:23 |
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| redixin | why not just remove test_cli_verfy.py just now? | 17:24 |
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| andreykurilin | msdubov_: "rally task" contains scenarios related to tempest. https://github.com/stackforge/rally/tree/master/doc/samples/tasks/scenarios/tempest | 17:24 |
| andreykurilin | msdubov_: I want to test it in this job too | 17:24 |
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| andreykurilin | msdubov_: for example, launch singel tempest test https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/doc/samples/tasks/scenarios/tempest/single_test.json | 17:25 |
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| andreykurilin | redixin: I leave this module, because I want to share imformation about new job | 17:26 |
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| andreykurilin | redixin: when all become accustomed to the new job, this module should be removed | 17:27 |
| andreykurilin | eom | 17:27 |
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| msdubov_ | andreykurilin, Okay, let it be so | 17:27 |
| msdubov_ | #topic General Rally code improvement | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General Rally code improvement (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:27 | |
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| msdubov_ | Okay this is quite a broad topic. Since we are moving towards our first release, we are doing our best to make the Rally code more neat | 17:28 |
| msdubov_ | E.g. there is a patch that covers all benchmark scenarios with docstrings and unifies their style: https://review.openstack.org/127192 | 17:28 |
| msdubov_ | This is very important for the "rally info" command as well to be more informative | 17:28 |
| msdubov_ | And rvasilets is currently working on 100% functional test coverage for CLI | 17:29 |
| msdubov_ | rvasilets, Seems like you are almost done with that? | 17:29 |
| rvasilets | Yes | 17:30 |
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| rvasilets | During the last week I have wrote the code for the 100% coverage functional tests. There are a couple of issues with this patch but I hope they would be solved soon. You can look at patch here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138134/ and I need you help with this | 17:30 |
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| msdubov_ | andreykurilin, amaretskiy1, redixin Any new ideas why those tests fail in such a weird way? :) | 17:31 |
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| rvasilets | I have only one suspicion that fails all tests in patch where is in string like | 17:31 |
| andreykurilin | looking | 17:31 |
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| rvasilets | self.rally = utils.Rally() in setUp | 17:31 |
| rvasilets | function | 17:31 |
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| rvasilets | It's only onlу dependence that I found | 17:32 |
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| msdubov_ | rvasilets, Well, as far as I know, setUp() is launched prior to EACH test method | 17:32 |
| rvasilets | But I have no clue why it so | 17:33 |
| msdubov_ | rvasilets, So this shouldn't be the problem... | 17:33 |
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| rvasilets | IF we look at test that pass jenkins, for example test_cli_task | 17:34 |
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| rvasilets | there is now such line in this module | 17:34 |
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| redixin | something wrong with config file. seems like file /tmp/.rd.json is rewritten somehow during tests | 17:35 |
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| redixin | anyway it is not best time to dive into code and logs =) | 17:36 |
| rvasilets | Mow? I found that my theory wrong? never mind. It's wrong for test_cli_show | 17:36 |
| msdubov_ | redixin, Agree, let's move further | 17:36 |
| andreykurilin | redixin: maybe we should use different names for separate tests? | 17:36 |
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| rvasilets | Also I have made bug ticket on launchpad and fix it https://bugs.launchpad.net/rally/+bug/1399675 . It was about incorrect output of rally info find for SLA. Thx, EOM. | 17:37 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1399675 in rally "Incorrect work rally info find for SLA" [Low,Fix released] | 17:37 |
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| redixin | andreykurilin, maybe | 17:37 |
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| msdubov_ | So one more thing to make our code more neat is to use the decorator syntax to mark deprecated things. | 17:38 |
| msdubov_ | olkonami, That's what you are currently working on, how are the things going? | 17:38 |
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| olkonami | deprecated decorator takes more time than I planned :( | 17:38 |
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| olkonami | the first idea was to check scenarios, runners, contexts and slas for deprecation in it's base class, but than it becomes clear that this way we should have multi checks for one type if it presents in config several times | 17:39 |
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| olkonami | so now I collect all checks in one method into the benchmark engine class | 17:40 |
| olkonami | I think it's better to check all benchmark components for deprecation in one place | 17:40 |
| olkonami | but this method looks ugly :( | 17:40 |
| olkonami | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138489/4/rally/benchmark/engine.py | 17:40 |
| olkonami | mayby someone will have any ideas how to improve it | 17:41 |
| msdubov_ | olkonami, We'll review it, thanks! | 17:41 |
| olkonami | and I am still in process of writing unit tests for it | 17:41 |
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| olkonami | eom | 17:42 |
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| msdubov_ | olkonami, thanks | 17:44 |
| msdubov_ | #topic Rally roadmap | 17:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally roadmap (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:44 | |
| msdubov_ | boris-42 was very kind to prepare a roadmap doc during his vacation https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/spreadsheets/d/16DXpfbqvlzMFaqaXAcJsBzzpowb_XpymaK2aFY2gA2g/edit#gid=0 | 17:45 |
| msdubov_ | this will hopefully make our work more transparent for the community | 17:45 |
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| msdubov_ | It can be seen from this doc for example that a couple important tasks like multi-scenario load support are currently blocked by the ongoing refactoring | 17:47 |
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| msdubov_ | let's keep that in mind | 17:47 |
| msdubov_ | #topic Free discussion | 17:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:47 | |
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| msdubov_ | amaretskiy1, andreykurilin, redixin, olkonami, rvasilets Any other things we haven't covered yet? | 17:48 |
| amaretskiy1 | none from me | 17:48 |
| andreykurilin | hm... | 17:48 |
| rvasilets | no | 17:48 |
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| redixin | -_- | 17:48 |
| olkonami | no | 17:48 |
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| andreykurilin | I have no ideas about what we missed:) | 17:48 |
| msdubov_ | Okay, thanks for participation then! | 17:49 |
| msdubov_ | #endmeeting | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 9 17:49:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-12-09-17.06.html | 17:49 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-12-09-17.06.txt | 17:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-12-09-17.06.log.html | 17:49 |
| andreykurilin | bye! | 17:49 |
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| alop | Who owns the gcal for the meeting schedule? | 18:19 |
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| anteaya | alop: well tony breed, annegentle and ttx all have admin rights on it | 18:52 |
| alop | cool, where'd you find that? | 18:52 |
| anteaya | I don't know tony's nick | 18:52 |
| anteaya | memory and tony posted to the -dev mailing list within the last month | 18:52 |
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| alop | cool, I'll reach out | 18:53 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| AJaeger_ | o/ | 19:01 |
| cody-somerville | \o | 19:01 |
| yolanda | hi | 19:01 |
| jedimike | o/ | 19:01 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | asselin: ping | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | asselin: let me know when you are here | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 9 19:02:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ (despite thunderstorms and my isp doing their best to keep me away) | 19:02 |
| asselin | I'm here | 19:02 |
| cody-somerville | \o | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | oh yay | 19:02 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:02 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:02 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | yo | 19:02 |
| jeblair | asselin has a time constraint today, so we'll take his topic first | 19:03 |
| asselin | jeblair, thanks. | 19:03 |
| asselin | I'm proposing an in-tree 3rd party ci solution. | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | #topic in-tree 3rd party ci solution (asselin) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "in-tree 3rd party ci solution (asselin) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| asselin | I have a spec written. looking for link... | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139745/ | 19:04 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | cool, i think this sounds like a good idea | 19:04 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:04 |
| asselin | thanks. I've been discussing it in 3rd party meeting and with others, and generally lots of support with the idea | 19:04 |
| jeblair | and a logical next step after the puppet module breakup | 19:04 |
| nibalizer | (i have to leave at quarter-till tho) | 19:04 |
| fungi | asselin: flagged that to read soon. i had similar thoughts a while back | 19:05 |
| clarkb | jeblair: right I don't think having a new independent repo helps much if we do that before we have the module split done | 19:05 |
| asselin | I was hoping to start looking at the possible solutions and get somethign proposed by end of K1. | 19:05 |
| fungi | hogepodge: you may also be interested in that spec | 19:05 |
| asselin | I took an initial look at what it would take to set up a log server. | 19:06 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, i'm assuming this depends on finishing the module split | 19:06 |
| jeblair | and it's going to uncover alot of other gotchas too | 19:06 |
| jeblair | but it should help us start to nail down our interfaces | 19:06 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:06 |
| asselin | got good feedback, and looking at starting to | 19:06 |
| jeblair | since having >1 consumer is really helpful for that sort of thing :) | 19:06 |
| clarkb | +1 | 19:07 |
| asselin | jeblair, right, exactly :) | 19:07 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | also, we might be able to do better testing for this limited part of our system | 19:07 |
| fungi | asselin: logserver is likely to be the hardest part, since setting up a public-facing webserver is often a clash with corporate network admins' firewall policies and needs extra deployment considerations | 19:07 |
| fungi | but definitely still worth covering the simple case | 19:07 |
| asselin | jeblair, +1 can add that to the spec | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | anyway, so it sounds like next steps are for us to try to find some time to review the spec, and if we find any contentious/complicated bits, come back here and hash them out? | 19:08 |
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| asselin | fungi, the assumption is to setup the log server in public place, and the rest can operate behind the firewall | 19:08 |
| mordred | asselin: also, offline from this meeting, I'd like to sync up with you on the rework-launch-node things I've been poking at and haven't written up | 19:08 |
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| asselin | mordred, ok sure | 19:08 |
| asselin | jeblair, yes | 19:09 |
| asselin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:thirdpartyci,n,z | 19:09 |
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| asselin | I created a topic to track the spec and initial attempt at the log server ^ | 19:09 |
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| asselin | so that's it, just wanted to get awareness and support | 19:10 |
| jeblair | asselin: cool, thanks very much! | 19:10 |
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| anteaya | asselin: nice work | 19:10 |
| fungi | a worthwhile endeavor | 19:10 |
| asselin | thanks | 19:10 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| timrc | o/ | 19:10 |
| jeblair | oh, forgot my links | 19:10 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-12-02-19.01.html | 19:11 |
| jeblair | anteaya draft messaging to communicate the new third-party account process | 19:11 |
| anteaya | that happened | 19:11 |
| fungi | she even sent it out | 19:11 |
| anteaya | I did | 19:11 |
| jeblair | above and beyond! | 19:11 |
| anteaya | heh | 19:11 |
| clarkb | and we are mostly transitioned off of the old stuff. | 19:11 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:12 |
| jeblair | so that seems to be going well, aside from apparently we had a way to block gerrit emails being sent on behalf of 3p systems | 19:12 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/third-party-announce/2014-December/000130.html | 19:12 |
| clarkb | the old groups still exist but are owned by administrators and are not visible | 19:12 |
| jeblair | which we lost | 19:12 |
| anteaya | pleia2: has a system-config patch up to remove the old ml from puppet | 19:12 |
| anteaya | we have planes to archive it | 19:12 |
| anteaya | the third-party requests ml | 19:12 |
| jeblair | what should we do about the email functionality? | 19:12 |
| jeblair | drop the "feature", try to get people to manage a non-voting-ci group, exim rules? | 19:13 |
| anteaya | I like not manageing this group | 19:13 |
| anteaya | can we filter on IC | 19:14 |
| anteaya | CI | 19:14 |
| anteaya | laggy wifi | 19:14 |
| fungi | create a "don't send e-mail" group in gerrit and have a lot of people who can drop accounts in there for well-defined reasons? | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | ohhh, I like that | 19:14 |
| fungi | doesn't necessarily have to be ci-specific, but likely would be anyway | 19:14 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yes, we could filter outgoing mail with exim based on having "CI" in the name | 19:14 |
| anteaya | who can add to that group? | 19:14 |
| clarkb | I strongly feel this should be managed in clients. Similar to filtering noise in irc channels | 19:14 |
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| clarkb | not everyone will agree on how to filter a thing and thankfully for email there are lots of tools available to do this independent of gerrit | 19:15 |
| anteaya | clarkb: except it isn't happening | 19:15 |
| clarkb | anteaya: why not? anyone can do it | 19:15 |
| anteaya | and folks make noise in -infra | 19:15 |
| anteaya | based on the number of questions so far it isn;t happening | 19:15 |
| clarkb | if I had to pick a way to go back to sort of what we had before I would create some Central CI group that has a pretty large management group to add/remove members | 19:15 |
| anteaya | I like fungi's no email group | 19:16 |
| fungi | i think some of the complaint is devs using muas they can't or don't know how to configure to filter this (which should be a lot easier now that we have naming consistency) | 19:16 |
| clarkb | we could reuse the existing Third-Party CI group | 19:16 |
| clarkb | which is preseeded with a number of ci users | 19:16 |
| jeblair | and anyone who complains gets added to the management group for that group ;) | 19:16 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:16 |
| clarkb | jeblair: +1 :) | 19:16 |
| anteaya | yes! | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | hahaha | 19:16 |
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| fungi | i'm on board. if we do implement a no-emails group, infra core shouldn't add anyone to it, we should only add coordinators and make them take responsibility | 19:17 |
| * anteaya touches her nose | 19:17 | |
| clarkb | so I can make this change. Should I go ahead and remake Third-Party CI a thing and give Third-Party Coordinators ownership and pressed that group with people to manage it? | 19:17 |
| fungi | unfortunately, there's no real audit trail on group membership management, so the larger the list of coordinators the less likely you'll be able to figure out when, why and by whom a member was added/removed | 19:18 |
| jeblair | everyone attending the third-party ci meetings should be in the management group, i think | 19:18 |
| clarkb | fungi: so you wouldn't start with the preexisting list of accounts? | 19:18 |
| anteaya | terrific | 19:18 |
| jeblair | fungi: isn't there such a thing in the db? | 19:18 |
| jeblair | fungi: just not exposed? | 19:18 |
| fungi | clarkb: yeah, whether or not the group is pre-seeded doesn't change the future accountability problem potential though | 19:18 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i think we should start with the current list. just not add any more :) | 19:18 |
| anteaya | then folks can complain at the meetings not infra channel | 19:19 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya that is what I was going with | 19:19 |
| fungi | jeblair: i don't think there is, unless you cound the mysql journal in trove | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | fungi: hrm, there's an audit table for groups, but we can dig into that later | 19:19 |
| fungi | oh, indeed. i'll double-check it | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | #action clarkb add DENY Email Third-Party CI rule to gerrit ACLs, giev Third-Party Coordinators ownership of Third-Party CI, seed Third-Party Coordinators with third party meeting attendees | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | is that what we have agreed on? | 19:20 |
| jeblair | i think so | 19:20 |
| anteaya | I like it | 19:20 |
| fungi | yep, i'm on board | 19:20 |
| jeblair | also, we should make it clear that jenkins and anything not a third-party ci is off-limits :) | 19:20 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya I can put that in the description of the group too | 19:21 |
| jeblair | back to actions... | 19:21 |
| jeblair | fungi nibalizer get pip and github modules split out | 19:21 |
| fungi | according to nibalizer that was already done last week | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | yup | 19:21 |
| jeblair | oh neato | 19:21 |
| fungi | and so i readded it to the actions list in error | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | clarkb script new gerrit group creation for self service third party accounts | 19:22 |
| jeblair | also done :) | 19:22 |
| jeblair | fungi close openstack-ci and add openstack-gate to e-r bugs | 19:22 |
| fungi | done | 19:22 |
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| fungi | we haven't needed the hat of shame at all this week | 19:22 |
| anteaya | :D | 19:22 |
| * mordred is the hat of shame | 19:22 | |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (swift logs) | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:22 | |
| fungi | haz | 19:23 |
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| nibalizer | i have the hat of shame, i didn't make the docker thing i was supposed to do | 19:23 |
| jhesketh | Okay, so zuul-swift-upload now works as a publisher so we can get logs on failed tests | 19:23 |
| mordred | WOOT | 19:23 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:23 |
| jeblair | those are the best kind to have :) | 19:23 |
| jhesketh | The experimental job (as seen here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133179/) has disk log storage turned off. | 19:23 |
| clarkb | for the most recent run | 19:24 |
| jhesketh | So everything should be in place now to switch jobs over. Some of the project-config jobs are logging to swift. The next step is to turn off disk logging for infra to be the guinnepigs | 19:24 |
| fungi | and no more races with getting the end of the console log? or is that still sometimes an issue? | 19:24 |
| jhesketh | What do people think? | 19:24 |
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| mordred | jhesketh: I support this | 19:24 |
| clarkb | fungi: none issue with swift | 19:24 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: progress progress progress let's make some | 19:25 |
| clarkb | yes I think I am ready to dogfood. I did have some ideas that came up looking at the index page for the above job. It would be nice if we had timestamps and file size there but I think we can add that later | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #agreed start infra dogfooding logs in swift | 19:25 |
| jhesketh | fungi : do you mean that we miss the end due to fetching? We kinda do in that we cut off the wget stuff | 19:25 |
| mordred | I'm excited that 4 years in we may be about to use swift | 19:25 |
| fungi | looks good. our publisher is still a little noisy with certificate warnings when grabbing the console from jenkins | 19:25 |
| fungi | jhesketh: right | 19:25 |
| mordred | fungi: is that because of the RFC deprecation thing? | 19:25 |
| fungi | mordred: nope, it's because it's self-signed | 19:26 |
| mordred | ah | 19:26 |
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| fungi | also we still need index page text besides the links themselves | 19:26 |
| jhesketh | We could try and silence wget | 19:26 |
| mordred | or we could just get 8 real certs | 19:26 |
| jeblair | mordred: -- | 19:27 |
| jhesketh | fungi:? | 19:27 |
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| jhesketh | Do you mean the returned links? | 19:27 |
| fungi | jhesketh: the readme we embed in on-disk apache autoindexes | 19:27 |
| jhesketh | Ah, right, yes | 19:28 |
| clarkb | fungi: not for our dogfooding though | 19:28 |
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| clarkb | hrm except for d-g I guess | 19:28 |
| clarkb | but d-g is the interesting one | 19:28 |
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| jhesketh | I guess each job can do their own index somehow | 19:28 |
| clarkb | what if we just put that tempate in a known location and link to it in every index? | 19:28 |
| fungi | we could add generate-index macro in jjb maybe | 19:28 |
| jhesketh | Either that or we make os-loganalyze smarter | 19:28 |
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| clarkb | where link is something different than a hyperlink so thatit renders nicely | 19:29 |
| fungi | i think os-loganalyze seems like a better place to fix that | 19:29 |
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| fungi | since that will allow us to alter readmes over time rather than having them stuck in whatever the state was at the time the logs were uploaded | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | the opposite approach has advantages too -- as things evolve, the readmes can co-evolve | 19:30 |
| jhesketh | Except the readme might not match the old logs, so storing it with the job may make more sense | 19:30 |
| fungi | true | 19:30 |
| jeblair | (if, say, devstack-gate wrote its own readme) | 19:30 |
| jhesketh | Doing it as a macro adds the greatest flexibility to the jobs | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | what writes the index right now? | 19:31 |
| fungi | yeah, and i guess the inefficiency of having hundreds of thousands of copies isn't terrible since that'll be a small bit of text in teh end | 19:31 |
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| jhesketh | This shouldn't affect the project-config jobs we want to dogfood, so maybe we tackle it when we move the other jobs over | 19:31 |
| jeblair | btw, logs.openstack.org/79/133179/1/experimental/experimental-swift-logs-system-config-pep8-centos6/cc75c20 is really slow to load for me | 19:32 |
| jhesketh | jeblair: the upload script can generate an index.html which is just a list of files it uploaded | 19:32 |
| fungi | on performance, yes it does seem that the index page generation is slow. requesting specific files is very quick by comparison | 19:33 |
| clarkb | fungi: the index.html isn't generated and is also a specific file. So Ithink any file may have that problem | 19:33 |
| fungi | huh... suddenly it sped up for me | 19:33 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: so we could add times/sizes to that, and have it insert the text of a readme if one exists | 19:33 |
| jhesketh | Yes so indexes suck in that the object in the url is first attempted to fetch and failing that it appends index.html and tries again | 19:33 |
| jhesketh | So it needs to make a few calls to swift | 19:34 |
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| jhesketh | jeblair: yep | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | jhesketh: can we have os-log-analyze append 'index.html' if the uri terminates with a '/'? | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | (which it should anyway, and then we can go update zuul, etc, to leave the proper / terminated link) | 19:34 |
| jhesketh | fungi: the speed will depend if there is an established connection with swift available in the pool | 19:35 |
| fungi | ahh | 19:35 |
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| jhesketh | jeblair: that seems reasonable (so we assume object names never end in a trailing slash) | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | i _think_ for our pseudo-filesystem case we can make that assumption | 19:36 |
| jhesketh | Yep, good idea | 19:36 |
| fungi | after all, that's basically how it's working with apache and a real filesystem | 19:36 |
| clarkb | I like that idea | 19:36 |
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| jhesketh | Also swift apparently have a plan to not be terrible at threads that'll help our connection pool management and stop so much lag (hopefully) | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | cool, agreement to dogfood and some next steps... anything else? | 19:37 |
| jhesketh | Okay so it sounds like we're ready to dog food and will make some tweaks to the index loading and then documentation as we go | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | jhesketh: thanks! | 19:38 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Puppet module split) | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Puppet module split) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:38 | |
| ianw | jhesketh: couldn't the output page be cached by osloganalyze? | 19:38 |
| jeblair | asselin is probably gone by now... | 19:38 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: anything related to this we should chat about? anything blocking? | 19:39 |
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| ianw | fairly related to this, i have two changed for httpd puppet module that need final reviews | 19:39 |
| jhesketh | ianw: hmm, with something like memcache it might not be a bad idea. Let's take that as an offline improvement | 19:39 |
| ianw | https://review.openstack.org/136959 (update rakefile) | 19:39 |
| ianw | https://review.openstack.org/136962 (adding the module) | 19:39 |
| mmedvede | there are couple of things that can be merged | 19:39 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/136959 | 19:39 |
| mmedvede | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open++topic:module-split%29,n,z | 19:39 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: i think we're swell | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | mmedvede: ah thanks | 19:40 |
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| nibalizer | i think things have been sorta slow lately, but i attribuet that to infra-manual sprint and thanksgiving so im not worried | 19:40 |
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| jeblair | so we should consider those priority reviews | 19:40 |
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| mmedvede | There was also some movement towards more automation on splits | 19:41 |
| jeblair | ianw: maybe you should change your topics to 'module-split' ? | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | i mean, it's split out, but it still seems related to the effort :) | 19:42 |
| anteaya | mmedvede: can you exapnd on the automation | 19:42 |
| anteaya | I have some questions | 19:42 |
| jeblair | i think there's a pending change to add a script to system-config | 19:43 |
| anteaya | cool | 19:43 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137991/ | 19:43 |
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| mmedvede | anteaya: we are trying to maintain all the splits automatically, before they are pulled in | 19:44 |
| anteaya | great | 19:44 |
| mmedvede | asselin and sweston were who worked on it | 19:44 |
| nibalizer | I have to step out, thanks everyone! | 19:44 |
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| anteaya | and asselins says that the script updates sweston's github repo | 19:44 |
| anteaya | was is the trigger for the update? | 19:44 |
| mmedvede | anteaya: correct | 19:44 |
| anteaya | my concern is extra overhead having source under sweston's control and asselin's patch | 19:45 |
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| anteaya | in case the seed repo needs to be respun | 19:45 |
| ianw | jeblair: the important one, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136962/ , has had two +2's and 4 +1's ... so it's been seen ... but we can't use the module until it's in | 19:45 |
| anteaya | which can happen | 19:45 |
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| mmedvede | anteaya: I see. There could be another step added, that actually would validate | 19:46 |
| mmedvede | i.e. run a simple diff with their upstream vs system-config | 19:46 |
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| anteaya | mmedvede: if we can have anyone trigger a respin of the repo, especially a patch owner that is all I am looking for | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:47 | |
| mordred | dib images work in rackspace now | 19:47 |
| yolanda | congrats! | 19:48 |
| mordred | I have repeatable scripts to make them work and whatnot | 19:48 |
| yolanda | mordred, using glance import and siwft? | 19:48 |
| mordred | yolanda: yes | 19:48 |
| mordred | it turns out that in rax we need to use glance v2 and swift, and in HP we need to use glance v1 | 19:48 |
| mordred | jroll also got rax to put info we need into config-drive | 19:48 |
| jeblair | the trusty nodepool server is not working at scale, and we're digging into why. | 19:48 |
| mordred | so I think before we roll this out, we want to wait for that change to go live so that we can drop nova-agent | 19:49 |
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| mordred | however, nova-agent does work | 19:49 |
| mordred | and we have dib elements for it | 19:49 |
| jeblair | mordred: ++ | 19:49 |
| mordred | my next step is to turn the shell scripts I have into python | 19:49 |
| mordred | at which point I'm probably going to want to have a conversation about nodepool+shade | 19:49 |
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| mordred | because "I want to upload an image" having two completely different paths per cloud is not really nodepool specific logic | 19:50 |
| fungi | also we seem to possibly be overloading our git server farm during snapshot image updates, and switching to dib will reduce that a whole bunch | 19:50 |
| clarkb | mordred: and everyone else really. I would really appreciate it if we stopped pushing so many new features to nodepool until we get the current ones working :) | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | its great that people are excited about nodepool but there are a few things currently wrong with it and I don't think they are getting much attention | 19:50 |
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| mordred | in any case, if people want to look at the elements, they're up for review against system-config | 19:50 |
| mordred | I'll move them to project-config and repropose soon | 19:51 |
| jeblair | mordred: i'm probably going to want to have a conversation about shade's project hosting and maintenance situation :) | 19:51 |
| mordred | jeblair: me too :) | 19:51 |
| mordred | jeblair: I imagine that will be part of that conversation | 19:51 |
| mordred | ALSO - I'd like to suggest that we move nodepool/elements to just elements/ - because I think we're going to wind up with non-nodepool elements too (see sane base images for infra servers) | 19:51 |
| mordred | but that's not urgent | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | *nod* | 19:52 |
| clarkb | mordred: they are in different repos though | 19:52 |
| mordred | clarkb: idea is to not propose the elements I've been working on to system-config | 19:52 |
| mordred | but to project-config | 19:52 |
| mordred | and have one set of elements and have it be tehre | 19:52 |
| fungi | elements for non-nodepool things would live in project-config? | 19:53 |
| jeblair | i feel like we're getting really close to a chicken and egg problem | 19:53 |
| fungi | what non-nodepool elements would be likely to get used for project-specific stuff? | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | probably we should start with duplication and see what we end up with and if it makes sense to de-dup? | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | this might be a bit hard to reason about at the current level of abstraction/understanding :) | 19:54 |
| clarkb | ya I think that is something to revisit when dib is a bit more concrete for us | 19:55 |
| clarkb | right now its very much hand wavy | 19:55 |
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| fungi | cart before the horse then | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (jobs on trusty) | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (jobs on trusty) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
| fungi | i prodded bug 1348954, bug 1367907 and bug 1382607 again a couple weeks ago, but no response from anyone in ubuntu/canonical on having a less-bug-ridden py3k in trusty | 19:56 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1348954 in python3.4 "update Python3 for trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1348954 | 19:56 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1367907 in python3.4 "Segfault in gc with cyclic trash" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1367907 | 19:56 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1382607 in python3.4 "[SRU] Backport python3.4 logging module backward incompatibility fix." [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382607 | 19:56 |
| fungi | i'm open to suggestions on how to raise the visibility of those | 19:56 |
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| fungi | zul asked me for the bug numbers again last week, but not sure if he was looking into them now too | 19:56 |
| jeblair | switch to an os that supports python3.4? | 19:57 |
| fungi | there's an alternative | 19:57 |
| fungi | or build our own real python interpreters for tests rather than using distro-provided python ;) | 19:57 |
| clarkb | or use the ones they pushed into that other repo | 19:57 |
| fungi | (which come with who-knows-what features back/forwardported into them) | 19:58 |
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| fungi | that other repo? | 19:58 |
| zul | i could look at pushing it to a ppa again as well | 19:58 |
| clarkb | fungi: py3.4 is fixed in one of the package maintainers repos iirc | 19:58 |
| clarkb | fungi: which you tested to confirm that the new package fixed our problem | 19:58 |
| fungi | clarkb: yeah | 19:59 |
| jeblair | zul: can you just yell at them to release it already? :) | 19:59 |
| fungi | clarkb: at least fixed for that one patch | 19:59 |
| zul | jeblair: ive done that | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | thanks everyone | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | we skipped over them, but core eyeballs on the priority specs would be much appreciated | 20:00 |
| fungi | anyway, that's the current state. patched python 3.4 in trusty is the current only blocker to moving our py3k jobs to 3.4/trusty | 20:00 |
| jeblair | pleia2: ++ | 20:00 |
| jeblair | and gerrit topics are up next time | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 9 20:00:38 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-12-09-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-12-09-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-12-09-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| mikal | Heya | 20:01 |
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| timrc | core eyeballs is the name of your new kickball team | 20:01 |
| devananda | \o | 20:01 |
| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, mordred, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, jaypipes, sdague : around ? | 20:01 |
| jeblair | ayep | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 9 20:02:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Hi everyone | 20:02 |
| mikal | Heya | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | FWIW I transitioned the wiki pages so that they now reference governance.openstack.org | 20:02 |
| ttx | rather than duplicate info | 20:03 |
| russellb | neat | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Project structure reform spec | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project structure reform spec (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/138504 | 20:03 |
| ttx | That was posted last week, I want to collect as much feedback as possible before pushing another version of the draft (probably tomorrow) | 20:03 |
| ttx | There was some very recent TC member feedback I haven't had time to fully parse yet | 20:03 |
| mikal | I have to say its very well written | 20:03 |
| ttx | but so far I see no comment I can't address in a new draft | 20:04 |
| mikal | Its the best explaination of the problem we're trying to address that I've seen so far | 20:04 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | There is an open question about the missing "impact for incubated projects" section that I wanted to discuss | 20:04 |
| jeblair | yes, i don't see any major problems with it, and it's really clear | 20:04 |
| mikal | ttx: what do you see being the path for that document? | 20:04 |
| mikal | ttx: do we approve it and then show the community? | 20:04 |
| mikal | ttx: or do we want them to see it before we approve it? | 20:04 |
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| ttx | new patchset, vote, then implementation using further changes | 20:05 |
| mikal | ttx: so, shouldn't there be a "explain" phase before implementation? | 20:05 |
| mikal | ttx: so that the community isn't surprised? | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 20:05 |
| ttx | well, we would socialize the spec for sure | 20:05 |
| ttx | for incubated projects, Solution 1 is to create an "incubated" tag in the original transitional taxonomy to reflect the current process. That's what earlier drafts proposed but I left it out of patchset 1 | 20:05 |
| ttx | Solution 2 is to drop the incubation concept at the same time we introduce the new structure, and just consider all currently-incubated projects "openstack projects" | 20:05 |
| mikal | I think we should actually pause | 20:05 |
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| jeblair | i think implementation comes with explanation (like code should come with docs :) | 20:06 |
| mikal | Stop and tell people what we decided, why, and talk it through if needed | 20:06 |
| mikal | Before doing any implementation | 20:06 |
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| dhellmann | +1 | 20:06 |
| mikal | jeblair: people wont notice implementation until its done and then they'll feel rolled | 20:06 |
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| ttx | mikal: sure, we should explain. I kind of wanty jay to start working on the code backend for the project taxonomy though :) | 20:06 |
| mikal | jeblair: given implementation is mostly in a repo people don't watch closely | 20:06 |
| ttx | On incuabted projects: For sake of seamless transition and baby steps, I think I'm leaning towards solution 1, and get rid of incubation as a second step -- but I'm fine with solution 2 too. | 20:06 |
| mikal | ttx: oh, yeah, I'm fine with that | 20:06 |
| jeblair | mikal: i think actual implementation is not a patch | 20:07 |
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| jeblair | grr | 20:07 |
| mikal | ttx: we just shouldn't announce that Nova is the only OpenStack project until we've explained | 20:07 |
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| mikal | ttx: I am fine with Jay coding the backend for that while we explain | 20:07 |
| ttx | mikal: heh | 20:07 |
| jaypipes | ttx: add it to my todo list | 20:07 |
| jeblair | is not just a patch to the repo, it's a plan for how to actually do all that, including announcements, timetables, etc | 20:07 |
| jeblair | anyway, we're probably violently agreeing | 20:07 |
| mikal | So, a silly question as well... | 20:08 |
| ttx | yes, implementation is more than just repo changes | 20:08 |
| mikal | Does "gets a room at the dsign summit" become a tag as well? | 20:08 |
| ttx | there will be ML posts and all | 20:08 |
| mikal | Or how to we allocate the somewhat limited space at the summit in the new world order? | 20:08 |
| ttx | mikal: so that's a good question. I'm working on the Vancouver summit | 20:08 |
| ttx | trying to secure more space | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ttx: can you get 450 rooms? | 20:08 |
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| ttx | I was leaning toward 500. | 20:09 |
| mikal | Yeah, you'll never have enough space | 20:09 |
| jeblair | some of them can be really small | 20:09 |
| mikal | We need some other way of working out who gets one | 20:09 |
| mikal | There will always be smaller projects who have to miss out | 20:09 |
| ttx | but there may be some prioritization in order. the Foundation organizes the event, so maybe it can prioritize | 20:09 |
| jaypipes | I think that is a technical problem to solve external to the debate about project structure reform. | 20:09 |
| ttx | or we could defer to TC to prioritize | 20:09 |
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| ttx | I want to have an idea of how much space we have and draft ideas first | 20:10 |
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| ttx | jaypipes: yes | 20:10 |
| jeblair | there's subjective criteria (tc/foundation prioritizes), but there's also some objective things we can do | 20:10 |
| mikal | jaypipes: probably, but it is a question a lot of people will immediately ask, so if we can address it before its asked that makes us look thinky | 20:10 |
| jeblair | ttx: you already do prioritization of the time slots we have; i wonder what happens if you extend those ideas out to more projects? | 20:10 |
| ttx | As far as the spec goes, I'll push a new patchset tomorrow, hopefully we'll be able to vote on it this week and close it next week | 20:10 |
| mikal | For example we talked about a "widely deployed" tag. Perhaps we ask the Foundation to prioritize widely deployed projects for summit space. | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | mikal: thinky or not, it's a problem that can derail this entire discussion | 20:11 |
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| * markmcclain first thought was the openstack room lottery | 20:11 | |
| ttx | jeblair: Another idea is to limit the number of sessions in "large rooms" and favor smaller groups in parallel. | 20:11 |
| vishy | what about a size requirement for room | 20:12 |
| sdague | so I do think that exact room segmentation is going to be massively driven by venue | 20:12 |
| vishy | and stick everyone else into a shared space | 20:12 |
| devananda | I suspect that a discussion of how we allocate time slots to projects as the list of projects grows will indirectly also lead to a discussion around mid cycles if we start splitting the summit time up between more projects | 20:12 |
| sdague | and it seems weird to come up with all those fine grain rules ahead of time when our current model is basically to come up with a split plan about 3 weeks before the summit | 20:12 |
| ttx | sdague: yes, that's why I want to have venue details first | 20:12 |
| vishy | rank projects by number of active contributors, more contributors == more space | 20:12 |
| devananda | vishy: ++ | 20:12 |
| ttx | vishy: I actually used patchset proposed as a metric last time | 20:13 |
| ttx | as a measure of collaboration needs | 20:13 |
| sdague | I personally don't think there is a math formula here either that solves this | 20:13 |
| ttx | but then I also used "historic" values | 20:13 |
| sdague | this is actually going to be able talking with projects and figuring out their needs during the summit | 20:13 |
| devananda | ttx: do/can we have a count of ATCs attending the event, not just total count per project? | 20:13 |
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| jaypipes | like I said... derail the discussion. | 20:13 |
| sdague | jaypipes: ++ | 20:14 |
| sdague | I think this can go offline | 20:14 |
| ttx | yes, this is not really the topic for today | 20:14 |
| mikal | jaypipes: sorry | 20:14 |
| mikal | jaypipes: all I was saying is we should think about it | 20:14 |
| mikal | Let's stop trying to fix it now | 20:14 |
| devananda | sdague: ++ to tabling this for now | 20:14 |
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| sdague | I also think the tags work item should probably be a subgroup | 20:14 |
| mikal | And let ttx come back with a proposal | 20:14 |
| ttx | mikal: it's very much on my mind. There is a venue visit this week | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ++ to talking to projects about needs | 20:14 |
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| ttx | i should have space constraints in 10 days. | 20:14 |
| ttx | etc. | 20:14 |
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| ttx | Once the spec is approved that doesn't mean our job is over. It's actually just starting | 20:15 |
| sdague | so back to mikal's other point, of socialization time | 20:15 |
| ttx | since it's more a framework for change than a change in itself. | 20:16 |
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| sdague | what kind of time frame do people feel comfortable with there? | 20:16 |
| ttx | I'll probably turn the second draft in to a blog post for larger communication | 20:16 |
| ttx | approval next week, pause until new year ? | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | mikal: no need to apologize :) | 20:16 |
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| mikal | New year at the least | 20:17 |
| mikal | We shouldn't make large governance changes over the holiday season | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | yeah, several weeks | 20:17 |
| * jaypipes would love to see a vote next week. | 20:17 | |
| mikal | (as a general rule) | 20:17 |
| ttx | mikal: which of those is a large change ? | 20:17 |
| mikal | jaypipes: a vote on any topic, or just this one? | 20:17 |
| mikal | ttx: changing from an integrated release to somehting else seems like a large change to me... | 20:17 |
| ttx | mikal: we don't change that. | 20:17 |
| jaypipes | mikal: this one in particular -- i.e. ttx's second draft of this proposal | 20:17 |
| mikal | ttx: we can vote on it, but then we should start the "explain" phase in the new year | 20:18 |
| ttx | mikal: the integrated release will still very much survive until end of Kilo. | 20:18 |
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| sdague | maybe that's what this needs | 20:18 |
| ttx | any change to the integrated release would come in a subsequently proposed change | 20:18 |
| sdague | a view of the timeline of how this would evolve | 20:18 |
| ttx | but not affect kilo | 20:18 |
| mikal | Yes | 20:18 |
| ttx | sdague: the "impact" section touches on that | 20:18 |
| mikal | Clearly I have misunderstood the plan | 20:18 |
| jaypipes | honestly, I don't really see a reason to not allow votes on new project inclusion pretty much right away. | 20:18 |
| ttx | jaypipes: yes, I don't think there is anythign warranting a long pause in there. | 20:19 |
| mikal | ttx: I just re-read that section | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | I mean, the holidays and all are going to be pretty light anways, so I suppose waiting until the start of the year is Ok, too | 20:19 |
| ttx | mikal: the change sets up a framework to describe something more complex | 20:19 |
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| mikal | ttx: I think it wouldn't hurt to have more of a proposed timeline there | 20:19 |
| ttx | mikal: but we still import the "integrated release" concept in it | 20:19 |
| mikal | ttx: yeah, I get that integrated release becomes a tag | 20:20 |
| ttx | before we deconstruct it, but that's a larger change that we'll discuss afterwards | 20:20 |
| sdague | jaypipes: by votes on new projects, you mean provide the objective project criteria, right? | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | ttx: but it's *clear* that we intend to change that, and so I think having everyone understand the whole process for that change will make things go more smoothly | 20:20 |
| sdague | or did I miss something | 20:20 |
| mikal | ttx: I still think that people will immediately want their project included in openstack/ etc etc | 20:20 |
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| jeblair | mikal: i think if people do, we need to wait until we've hashed out the details | 20:20 |
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| mikal | Anyways, we can take that discussion to a review of this proposal I think | 20:21 |
| ttx | mikal: sure. Not saying we'll rush anything. Just saying that the larger changes are actually still ahead of us | 20:21 |
| mikal | ttx: agreed | 20:21 |
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| ttx | and will likely result in more heated discussions | 20:21 |
| mikal | ttx: all I'm saying is that we should accept that the Holiday period is going to be quieter | 20:21 |
| jeblair | i think we should vote on the spec next week, start implementing it in the new year, but until we've actually implemented it, we should not rush to pretend that we have :) | 20:21 |
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| jeblair | otherwise we will just be very confused | 20:21 |
| sdague | jeblair: that seems sane | 20:21 |
| ttx | the trick here is to set the framework up first, so that those discussions don't end up slowing us down in other directions | 20:21 |
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| sdague | I think it does make sense to create things as milestones with guessed on months when we want to have them done by | 20:22 |
| sdague | instead of just todos | 20:22 |
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| ttx | i.e. we can start describing openstack projects better, even if agreeing on a compute base (or absence thereof) will take us a long time | 20:22 |
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| sdague | maybe that would make it more clear to folks on sequencing or the like | 20:22 |
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| ttx | sdague: I can add a timeframe aspect to the implementation part | 20:23 |
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| sdague | because I expect that will be a point of confusion, and we do have a history in our community of thundering herds once an idea sparks | 20:23 |
| sdague | see: specs repos | 20:23 |
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| sdague | ttx: great | 20:23 |
| ttx | sdague: just add a comment about that so that I remember to add it | 20:23 |
| sdague | yep | 20:24 |
| * ttx doesn't trust his memory after 9pm | 20:24 | |
| mikal | Cool | 20:24 |
| markmcclain1 | cool | 20:24 |
| ttx | my question on incubation still stands though | 20:24 |
| ttx | should we import initially the "incubation" concept | 20:24 |
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| ttx | or just drop the incubation concept at the same time we introduce the new structure, and just consider all currently-incubated projects "openstack projects" ? | 20:25 |
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| jeblair | #2 | 20:25 |
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| mikal | Herm | 20:25 |
| markmcclain1 | 2 | 20:25 |
| vishy | kill incubation imo | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I don't see any reason to carry it over artificially if we're not going to actually incubate any projects | 20:25 |
| mikal | I need to think more about that one I think | 20:25 |
| ttx | it's arguably more of an active change to pick #2 | 20:25 |
| sdague | yeh, I'd just drop it | 20:25 |
| ttx | but then the writing is on the wall | 20:25 |
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| russellb | +1 to just dropping it, unless it still has some kind of real meaning | 20:26 |
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| ttx | russellb: it would be the first one we drop. Can be same change, or subsequent change | 20:26 |
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| jeblair | heh, i don't think we'd ever have time to implement the rest if we kept it :) | 20:26 |
| russellb | ok, sure | 20:26 |
| zaneb | would it make sense to wait until we have some other tags in place? | 20:26 |
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| zaneb | and prioritise reviewing incubated projects for whether they can have those tags applied | 20:27 |
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| devananda | what would it mean to retain that tag, when we've stated an intent to remove it? | 20:28 |
| zaneb | (just concerned that there will be a temporary vacuum for incubated projects in which they're not receiving guidance about how to move forward) | 20:28 |
| ttx | retain it means we need to define it | 20:28 |
| devananda | zaneb: a fair point, but I feel like that's actually where we're at | 20:28 |
| ttx | and apart from "legacy procedure artifact in becoming integrated" I don't know what we can put there | 20:28 |
| devananda | zaneb: cross-project teams are in the process of defining/communicating/creating those tools for projects which they don't directly support | 20:29 |
| devananda | until that work is done, there *is* a vacuum | 20:29 |
| jeblair | i think the guidance to new projects is: go be part of the community and make some good software :) [which is really the point of doing all this, i think] | 20:29 |
| devananda | at least, that's my perception | 20:29 |
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| sdague | jeblair: yeh, that's my pov | 20:30 |
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| ttx | devananda: yes, and this is nothing new | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | yes, I don't think it's likely we're going to be holding any incubation reviews while also trying to rewrite this process | 20:30 |
| devananda | jeblair: is that any different for currently-incubated projects, vs. non-incubated projects? | 20:30 |
| devananda | dhellmann: exactly | 20:30 |
| ttx | most horizontal teams have been reinventing themselves over those last cycles | 20:30 |
| ttx | because there was just no other way | 20:30 |
| sdague | devananda: no, and I think that's kind of the point | 20:30 |
| devananda | jeblair: (that's a rhetorical question, if it wasnt' obvious :) ) | 20:30 |
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| ttx | OK, so you guys seem to lean towards #2. | 20:31 |
| ttx | I'll draft a "impact for incubated projects" in the rev2 | 20:32 |
| anteaya | ttx women too | 20:32 |
| ttx | to spell the consequances out. | 20:32 |
| ttx | well, our female member is not present, and I was addressing TC members | 20:32 |
| anteaya | sorry | 20:32 |
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| Anne | Here but on my phone just to make sure you use gender correct pronouns :) | 20:33 |
| ttx | damn | 20:33 |
| ttx | guys and gals maybe | 20:33 |
| devananda | heh | 20:33 |
| devananda | ttx: may I suggest "ya'll" :) | 20:33 |
| sdague | folks | 20:33 |
| mikal | I think gals requires a certain hair style doesn't it? | 20:33 |
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| sdague | folks is always good | 20:33 |
| mikal | Y'all is safer | 20:33 |
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| russellb | y'all | 20:33 |
| * ttx just finished Ancillary Justice, for those interested in pronouns | 20:33 | |
| jaypipes | sdague: sorry, yes, that's what I meant. | 20:33 |
| markmcclain1 | +1 to y'all | 20:33 |
| jeblair | or even just "you" :) | 20:34 |
| ttx | y'all it is | 20:34 |
| russellb | progress | 20:34 |
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| sdague | anyway, the only other thing is I think the work items should probably have a point person assigned to each one | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | this meeting is starting to feel like an ent moot | 20:34 |
| sdague | so they aren't nebulous | 20:34 |
| sdague | and get lost | 20:34 |
| zaneb | +1 y'all. none of this ya'll business ;) | 20:34 |
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| ttx | sdague: ok. I own most of them, except the taxonomy website which is jay's | 20:35 |
| devananda | dhellmann: LOL | 20:35 |
| ttx | I suspect TC members will start proposing tags though | 20:35 |
| ttx | and own them to completion | 20:35 |
| sdague | ttx: ok, so lets be explicit about it then | 20:35 |
| mikal | I want the "funniest project" tag. I will administer that one | 20:35 |
| ttx | Anything else missing ? | 20:36 |
| russellb | mikal: i support your candidacy to administer that tag. | 20:36 |
| sdague | I also left a comment on that :) | 20:36 |
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| mikal | I also want to put in a bid for "most hygenic project" | 20:36 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on to next topic then. I have a surprise topic for open discussion too | 20:36 |
| mikal | But anyways... | 20:36 |
| ttx | #topic Housekeeping changes | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:36 | |
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| ttx | * Add new advanced services repositories for neutron (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138479/) | 20:37 |
| ttx | That is supporting the advanced services split in Neutron, acked by PTL. Will approve tomorrow morning unless someone opposes it | 20:37 |
| ttx | * Move hacking under the QA program (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138499/) | 20:37 |
| ttx | This one has all the approvals lined up, will approve it now | 20:37 |
| ttx | * Add Castellan project to Barbican program (https://review.openstack.org/138875) | 20:37 |
| ttx | This one is proposed by the PTL. I'll approved it tomorrow morning unless someone opposes it | 20:38 |
| ttx | * Completed the gerrit-powered-agenda project split (https://review.openstack.org/139944) | 20:38 |
| ttx | This one is just reflecting a project split and rename that has already occurred. Now has jeblair's +1 as Infra PTL... Will approve if I get that and nobody complained before tomorrow morning | 20:38 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:39 | |
| ttx | Early look at potential L names: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Naming#L_naming | 20:39 |
| russellb | http://peakery.com/lemming-peak-canada/ | 20:39 |
| russellb | BOOM | 20:39 |
| markmcclain1 | +1 | 20:39 |
| marun | :D | 20:39 |
| * mikal votes for Lemming as well | 20:39 | |
| russellb | credit to marun for finding that | 20:39 |
| jeblair | russellb: nicely played | 20:39 |
| ttx | how come wikipedia doesn't know about it | 20:40 |
| ttx | though I guess that can be fixed too | 20:40 |
| mikal | russellb: you need to add that to the wiki page me thinks | 20:40 |
| anteaya | ttx sorry I tipped your hand, sitting in the same room as these folks | 20:40 |
| mestery | +1 for Lemming | 20:40 |
| * dhellmann imagines the fun we could have if we call it Limerick | 20:40 | |
| * dtroyer likes the four letter name trend we have going… | 20:40 | |
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| jeblair | lemming is even in BC | 20:40 |
| russellb | jeblair: yes! | 20:40 |
| * ttx checks that this thing actually exists | 20:40 | |
| mikal | Langley should be quietly dropped as well | 20:41 |
| mikal | I don't think a CIA themed release is in our marketting best interests | 20:41 |
| ttx | <redacted> | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | mikal: ++ | 20:41 |
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| salv-orlando | I still think Loonie should be listed in "Other symbols" | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | lemming, lemming, lemming | 20:41 |
| mikal | Heh | 20:41 |
| devananda | ++lemming | 20:41 |
| russellb | alternative google maps link: http://goo.gl/7uZ49O | 20:41 |
| ttx | I must admit that Lemming is even a BC landmark | 20:41 |
| ttx | which makes it a strong contender | 20:42 |
| sdague | :) | 20:42 |
| anteaya | mikal: now you have to find a munchkin in tokyo | 20:42 |
| jaypipes | perhaps we can take a day trip up there and throw ourselves off. | 20:42 |
| ttx | But then we had "Lizard" which is cool too ! | 20:42 |
| mikal | anteaya: I am asking the city to rename something right now... | 20:42 |
| jeblair | take a moment and imagine the universe where we release "OpenStack Love". | 20:42 |
| vishy | lemming! | 20:42 |
| ttx | it's cold bloodeed and... ok.ok. | 20:42 |
| mikal | jaypipes: ummm, no roads that I can see | 20:42 |
| anteaya | mikal: that will work | 20:42 |
| ttx | OpenStack Liberty! | 20:42 |
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| ttx | now we need to be dropped on Lemming Peak by helicopter | 20:43 |
| mikal | Mirantis do good parties | 20:43 |
| mikal | I'm sure they're up to helicoptering the TC around | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | mikal: LMAO | 20:43 |
| ttx | can't cost much that then TC dinner | 20:43 |
| ttx | more* | 20:43 |
| mikal | ttx: LOL | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | ha! | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | true statement | 20:44 |
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| mikal | OMG | 20:44 |
| mestery | jeblair: lol | 20:44 |
| mikal | We have to argue about mountains for the next 15 minutes? | 20:44 |
| ttx | no | 20:44 |
| jeblair | mikal: it's in the charter | 20:45 |
| ttx | can someone edit https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Naming to add lemming | 20:45 |
| mikal | ttx: you accept the wisdom of the peanut gallery then? | 20:45 |
| russellb | sure, i can | 20:45 |
| ttx | what other names would you like as backup ? We need to do some namecheck trademark thing | 20:45 |
| * russellb takes the wiki page lock | 20:45 | |
| ttx | so better include 3 names | 20:45 |
| anteaya | laurentian | 20:45 |
| ttx | lizard | 20:45 |
| anteaya | laurier | 20:45 |
| ttx | lizard | 20:46 |
| ttx | spock | 20:46 |
| markmcclain1 | so we want to pick the 3 worst names right? | 20:46 |
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| jeblair | lizard, lulu, love | 20:46 |
| markmcclain1 | Longueuil, Lasqueti, Llangorse | 20:46 |
| anteaya | spock five: http://ibackpackcanada.com/spock-five-the-new-canadian-currency/ | 20:46 |
| fungi | eek, that last one is a little too welsh | 20:46 |
| mikal | My wife suggests "Lemon" | 20:47 |
| ttx | markmcclain1: trouble is, the namecheck on lemming might just return 1 | 20:47 |
| ttx | so we need a decent backup | 20:47 |
| mikal | I like lightning from the wiki list... | 20:47 |
| kevinbenton | Lawn | 20:47 |
| russellb | Love isn't bad | 20:47 |
| marun | +1 for love | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | London would be in keeping with our "not where you think it is" theme | 20:48 |
| ttx | mikal, kevinbenton: needs to at least pretend to be in BC | 20:48 |
| mikal | ttx: lightning is on your wiki list | 20:48 |
| markmcclain1 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:48 |
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| mikal | Lightning (Peak) | 20:48 |
| ttx | yes, but not lemon ? | 20:48 |
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| mikal | Oh, yeah | 20:48 |
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| mikal | We can ignore my wife there | 20:48 |
| ttx | lightning is neat, A bit too neat | 20:48 |
| russellb | lightning sounds so cheesy, but i kinda like it too | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | +1 for Love; +1 for Lolo | 20:48 |
| mestery | Still +1 for Lemming, but +1 for Love as well | 20:49 |
| mikal | Lipton is a brand of tea... | 20:49 |
| markmcclain1 | +1 for Lanz | 20:49 |
| mestery | How can you not be +1 for Love? | 20:49 |
| ttx | unlikely to pass, yes | 20:49 |
| ttx | Spread the OpenStack Love! | 20:49 |
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| russellb | in all seriousness, not sure about the negative connotations of lemming, but it's just so funny because it's been used so much already | 20:49 |
| mikal | Love is going to be so cheesy | 20:49 |
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| mestery | Imagine the parties for OpenStack Love! | 20:49 |
| russellb | mestery: yes! | 20:49 |
| mikal | Yeah, lawsuit right there | 20:49 |
| * fungi can see the complaints already | 20:50 | |
| jeblair | mikal: you are such a cynic, but i love you anyway | 20:50 |
| * dhellmann imagines hippies | 20:50 | |
| mikal | jeblair: we can hug it out later | 20:50 |
| anteaya | there be hippies in bc | 20:50 |
| ttx | OK, I guess I can compile this to a list of candidates for our staff to check | 20:50 |
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| ttx | Anything else ? | 20:50 |
| mikal | Longview has some ok connotations | 20:50 |
| marun | Leather | 20:50 |
| marun | There's ahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_Peak | 20:50 |
| russellb | oh dear. | 20:50 |
| mikal | Sigh | 20:50 |
| ttx | marun: yes, it's on the list | 20:51 |
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| kevinbenton | Lower Post | 20:51 |
| ttx | err or at least it was. | 20:51 |
| ttx | may have removed it because it's not BC | 20:51 |
| marun | also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_Mountain | 20:51 |
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| anteaya | Lynx | 20:51 |
| ttx | Lucid Lynx? | 20:51 |
| mikal | anteaya: you clearly havne't seen the creepy lynx ads in australia | 20:51 |
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| anteaya | I have not | 20:51 |
| anteaya | just seen Canadian lynx | 20:51 |
| ttx | mikal: youtube | 20:51 |
| marun | ttx: 'leather peak' is on the border of alberta and bc | 20:52 |
| ttx | marun: I blame Google | 20:52 |
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| mikal | anteaya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAx-NP4T9CY (I do not endorse this product) | 20:53 |
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| jeblair | i do also like london to go along with juno and havana | 20:53 |
| clarkb | Lanz | 20:53 |
| clarkb | it has a Z therefore it is cool | 20:54 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: ++ | 20:54 |
| ttx | Other topic: we'll discuss joehuang's cascading at next week cross-project meeting -- I wasn't at that cascading/cells cross-project session in Paris. Who was ? | 20:54 |
| russellb | seems we have several decent options, so that's cool | 20:54 |
| mikal | ttx: I wasn't I had a clash | 20:54 |
| russellb | i was | 20:54 |
| mikal | ttx: I thnk John / Dan Smith were though | 20:54 |
| russellb | yep, would be good to invite them | 20:54 |
| ttx | so is that getting any traction is the real world ? | 20:54 |
| mikal | I certainly understood that Cells v2 was the Way Forward though | 20:55 |
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| russellb | ttx: not afaict, no | 20:55 |
| russellb | mikal: their proposal aims to address some stuff cells doesn't | 20:55 |
| russellb | but it was still far from clear to anyone in the room | 20:55 |
| ttx | feels like joehuang didn't get a strong enough "no" answer and is pushing for a cross-project effort yo adopt cascading all over | 20:55 |
| mestery | Bold move for sure :) | 20:55 |
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| ttx | well, I just don't see it happening if it's in parallel without strong support from everyone | 20:56 |
| mestery | Agreed | 20:56 |
| russellb | i didn't really pick up *any* support in that room, honestly | 20:56 |
| ttx | but then I guess it's a topic for next week, just wanted to see who had an opinion and could help drive that discussion to some conclusion | 20:56 |
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| russellb | a big part of it is just approach to the whole thing | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | should we address it on the mailing list thread before the meeting? | 20:57 |
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| ttx | well, that would help | 20:57 |
| markmcclain1 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:57 |
| russellb | dhellmann: we could, they did post a follow up on there | 20:57 |
| russellb | i was so caught off guard by their post though | 20:57 |
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| ttx | I can't really oppose his claims of support as I wasn't in that room | 20:57 |
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| russellb | it was so far off from the conclusion i got from the meeting | 20:57 |
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| dhellmann | it would be best coming from someone who was there -- the best I could do is ask about the outcome of the meeting | 20:57 |
| mikal | Yeah, I feel a bit like ttx | 20:57 |
| mikal | I wasn't there, so I don't really know what people concluded | 20:57 |
| mikal | There was an etherpad though, right? | 20:57 |
| russellb | well, i guess i can take an action to respond sometime this week | 20:58 |
| ttx | but that definitely doesn't match what people told me happened there | 20:58 |
| sdague | I also wasn't there, I just heard 2nd hand that there was a lot of confusion | 20:58 |
| ttx | "polite listening" was more it | 20:58 |
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| russellb | right | 20:58 |
| russellb | polite listening and lots of "i don't get it" | 20:58 |
| ttx | OK, so yes, if we could try to start the discussion on the ML before next week... | 20:58 |
| edleafe | I was there, and no, there wasn't any support I heard | 20:58 |
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| ttx | that would make next week meeting easier | 20:59 |
| mikal | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-crossproject-scale-out-openstack | 20:59 |
| ttx | Also if someone wants to chair that one, they can | 20:59 |
| mikal | If that helps... | 20:59 |
| ttx | :) | 20:59 |
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| russellb | ttx: won't be around? or? | 20:59 |
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| russellb | just saying, chair the topic? | 20:59 |
| ttx | i'll be around :) | 20:59 |
| ttx | No, I anticipate a painful "get real" discussion | 21:00 |
| sdague | so johnthetubaguy, dansmith, alaski would all be good to invite there | 21:00 |
| fungi | we wanted to start sharing around the meeting chair duty for the cross-project meeting | 21:00 |
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| ttx | fungi: unfortuinately I also signed up for until new year | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | sdague: johnthetubaguy is the one who keeps putting it on our agenda and then not showing up to talk about it | 21:00 |
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| fungi | ttx: lack of foresight? | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is out | 21:00 |
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| ttx | thx everyone | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| * jeblair has added ancillary justice to his suggestions list | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 9 21:01:09 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-12-09-20.02.html | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-12-09-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-12-09-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I endorse it | 21:01 |
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| ttx | yep, pretty good one | 21:01 |
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| jokke_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy PTL ping for next meeting: dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov | 21:02 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:02 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| mikal | Hello | 21:02 |
| mikal | Even though I didn't get a ping | 21:02 |
| ttx | zz_johnthetubagu: o/ | 21:02 |
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| ttx | mikal: why are you not in my script | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
| anteaya | mikal: ping | 21:03 |
| dstanek | o/ | 21:03 |
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| mikal | ttx: perhaps I'm not a real PTL? | 21:03 |
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| mikal | ttx: that would mean I could sleep in more... | 21:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:03 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 9 21:03:23 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 21:03 |
| kragniz | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | I might need you to do John hot spare again | 21:03 |
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| ttx | mikal: ^ | 21:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
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| mikal | ttx: sure | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic Convergence on specs process | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Convergence on specs process (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:04 | |
| mikal | (Although I have to duck out a littler early) | 21:04 |
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| ttx | So this was put on the agenda by johnthetubaguy but he is not around | 21:04 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:04 |
| maishsk | ttx: again.... | 21:04 |
| ttx | I'll try my best to drive the discussion anyway | 21:04 |
| mikal | I can help too | 21:04 |
| ttx | so that we don't postpone it twice | 21:04 |
| ttx | So the idea is to continue the cross-project session on specs we had in Paris | 21:05 |
| bknudson | is there an etherpad? I didn't make it | 21:05 |
| ttx | and see which practices may be interesting to apply to everyone | 21:05 |
| asalkeld | is there a link to a suggestion to what we are converging to | 21:05 |
| ttx | (if any) | 21:05 |
| eglynn | ttx: can you tl;dr the outcome of the session in Paris | 21:05 |
| SlickNik | o/ | 21:05 |
| russellb | IIRC, first step was get Blueprints wiki page up to date for all projects | 21:05 |
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| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-crossproject-specs | 21:05 |
| russellb | and then see if there were actually differences to deal with and discuss | 21:05 |
| ttx | also which differences are useful and which is just superfluous | 21:06 |
| russellb | yeah | 21:06 |
| * ttx tries to find the etherpad from that session | 21:06 | |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ^^ | 21:06 |
| mikal | I'd be interested in if other projects have soemthing better than procedural -2's as well | 21:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann: thx! | 21:06 |
| notmyname | here | 21:07 |
| ttx | Maybe first step is to look at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints | 21:07 |
| ttx | "Spec + Blueprints lifecycle" chapter | 21:07 |
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| ttx | and see who actually follows that, if anyone | 21:07 |
| ttx | 'Upload a design specification in the "specs/<release>" folder in $PROJECT-specs' | 21:08 |
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| mikal | ttx: there are minor diffs for nova in that | 21:08 |
| ttx | -> nova uses approved/ implemented/ | 21:08 |
| mikal | ttx: things like paths being wrong in those instructions | 21:08 |
| mikal | ttx: we also have a per-release template | 21:08 |
| mikal | ttx: we also don't remove non-completed specs | 21:08 |
| devananda | ttx: we have been mostly following it, though mistakes are getting made (even by me) | 21:08 |
| jungleboyj | That looks like the lifecycle that is used by Cinder | 21:08 |
| mikal | ttx: we instead move implemetned specs to that different directory | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | mikal: why do you track the implementation status in 2 places? | 21:08 |
| ttx | mikal: I can see a few drawbacks in switching spec location at implementation time | 21:08 |
| mikal | dhellmann: as in the directory move? | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | mikal: yes | 21:09 |
| SlickNik | ttx: we've been following it for Trove as well. | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | mikal: why not just use the blueprint for that? | 21:09 |
| mikal | dhellmann: because it was felt that it would be confusing to operators and other non-dev consumers if leave the specs repo in an inconsistent state | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:09 |
| mikal | dhellmann: we actively push operators to the specs repo | 21:09 |
| notmyname | at the summit swift proposed a change in flow for specs https://github.com/openstack/swift-specs/blob/master/README.rst | 21:09 |
| mikal | dhellmann: but then don't explain that it might be a pack of lies | 21:09 |
| devananda | ttx: ironic also has a /backlog/ directory now, for things we know we won't do this cycle, but want to record | 21:09 |
| mikal | That wiki page also doens't mention backlog specs, which we stole from Keystone | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | i personally do not like the "move" the spec when implemented. - i would, if anything, update incomplete specs with a "incomplete" status? | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | mikal: yeah, ok, that does make some sense. I'd almost drop blueprints at that point. | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | in the spec. | 21:10 |
| mikal | dhellmann: we need bps for mechanical release reasons though | 21:10 |
| mikal | dhellmann: I agree this isn't perfect | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: in oslo we just delete them if they aren't done, but we haven't had any "half done" ones yet | 21:10 |
| thingee | ttx: cinder just removes the specs that weren't completed in the release. | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | mikal: yeah, true | 21:10 |
| jokke_ | quick comment based on the discussion on the etherpad. One thing I really like about the specs is that as it's just another git repo you can propose changes. I think it would benefit all to have the spec approved on principal quite early and redefined based on the implementation on the way | 21:10 |
| ttx | OK, let's focus on that particular bit, the use of a specific "implemented" directory | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, we have had a couple half-done and we just proposed a <next release>/<same spec> highlighting what was done and what wasn't | 21:11 |
| devananda | I don't know if it would work for larger projects, but in Ironic we're not approving specs until they are very likely to be landable in the cycle | 21:11 |
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| ttx | who else uses that ? just nova ? | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | if it wasn't touched at all, i'd delete it/move it back to backlog | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: that makes sense | 21:11 |
| eglynn | morganfainberg: agree on not moving, surely that breaks the specification URL field in LP? | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | devananda: ++ | 21:11 |
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| morganfainberg | devananda, that is the goal for keystone as well. | 21:11 |
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| devananda | as a result, we haven't had to look at a separate /implemented/ dir | 21:11 |
| notmyname | ttx: we have "done" and "in_progress" in swift | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | devananda, unless it's proposed to backlog | 21:11 |
| devananda | morganfainberg: right - backlog is not release specific | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | (nothing proposed there yet for us, but planned this cycle) | 21:11 |
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| devananda | specs/[backlog, juno, kilo] | 21:11 |
| asalkeld | i think it's dumb using the spec repo to store state when lp is doing that | 21:11 |
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| notmyname | ttx: implemented is something specifically didn't want because we didn't want to confuse specs with docs | 21:12 |
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| jokke_ | asalkeld: +1 | 21:12 |
| eglynn | asalkeld: +1 | 21:12 |
| asalkeld | maybe just remove the kilo/juno folder too | 21:12 |
| ttx | specs is just that.. a spec. Not a feature list | 21:12 |
| mikal | asalkeld: I think that's an overly emotive way of putting it | 21:12 |
| asalkeld | maybe | 21:12 |
| devananda | I find it helpful to break specs down by cycle | 21:12 |
| notmyname | ttx: and "done" in swift-specs is basically "we're not looking at this any more so it's an effective trash can but kept for history" | 21:12 |
| ttx | But I can see how people may confuse the two | 21:12 |
| mikal | So, we have ops people deep linking to specs | 21:12 |
| mikal | We're just going to delete stuff and let them get a 404? | 21:12 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, i wouldn't remove the history, we make previous releases appear differently via sphinx magic | 21:13 |
| asalkeld | sorry, just seems like trying to mirror stuff unnecessary | 21:13 |
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| ttx | mikal: how does that deeplink survive the move to "implemented/" ? | 21:13 |
| mikal | ttx: we have a sphinx plugin which creates redirects | 21:13 |
| devananda | ttx: this does raise a question for me. I see some blueprints "specification URL" pointing to gerrit reviews | 21:13 |
| mikal | ttx: its not very good, but it works | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, previous releases and implemented specs (keystoneclient does move spec to "implemented" because they are not the same as the named releases) we do: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/implemented.html | 21:13 |
| devananda | ttx: but I dont know where that practice came from | 21:14 |
| ttx | devananda: spec2bp.py should overwrite that :) | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | implemented/previous releases | 21:14 |
| devananda | ttx: i actually find it very helpful | 21:14 |
| asalkeld | also any reason the specs have to be in a seperate repo? it would make it easier to keep uptodate if they were in-tree | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | mikal: that's actually a very good point. maybe this cycle I'll move all of the incomplete ones over to an "incomplete" folder | 21:14 |
| ttx | mikal: not askign anyone to drop anything yet. Just trying to see if there can be more common practices. | 21:14 |
| devananda | ttx: for not-yet-approved blueprints to have a URL pointing to the spec review | 21:14 |
| mikal | asalkeld: we have different core groups for specs | 21:14 |
| ttx | ops don't look at nova's specs in a vacuum | 21:14 |
| SlickNik | devananda: +1 | 21:14 |
| devananda | asalkeld: separate core group | 21:14 |
| ttx | so they try to make sense of specs.o.o ovberall and can't | 21:14 |
| devananda | ironic has spec-cores who are not ironic-cores | 21:15 |
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| asalkeld | so just permissions issue? | 21:15 |
| mtreinish | asalkeld: also some spec repos cover more than one project | 21:15 |
| devananda | because there are operational stake-holders who grok the architecture but don't neceessarily write or review code on a daily basis | 21:15 |
| morganfainberg | devananda, i expect keystone to also have that. and we also have our API spec in the -specs repo. That does not belong in-tree for the code | 21:15 |
| ttx | devananda: the whiteboard should get autopopulated by Gerrit with review links as long as you reference the BP in the commit message | 21:16 |
| morganfainberg | devananda, that wasn't meant to be directed to you ^ just to the channel in general | 21:16 |
| devananda | ttx: for --blocked specs, could spec2bp set the URL to the review? | 21:16 |
| mikal | I'd be interested in how (if at all) other PTLs are encouraging operators to come on in-review specs | 21:16 |
| thingee | dhellmann: if a spec isn't going to happened because it's abandoned, does it make sense just to delete it? It's in git history, you can retrieve it back. I guess you don't have the convenience of searching through a directory for keywords if something was discussed before. | 21:16 |
| mikal | s/come/comment/ | 21:16 |
| ttx | devananda: oh, you mean the spec review ? | 21:16 |
| devananda | ttx: yes | 21:16 |
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| ttx | devananda: that.. kind of makes sense | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | thingee: yeah, I was thinking of mikal's point about people having links pointing to them | 21:16 |
| morganfainberg | mikal, we haven't had a large issues convincing operators to do so for keystone. but we started with operators helping us with the spec process (UofKent, etc) | 21:17 |
| ttx | devananda: maybe add it as comment to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108041/ | 21:17 |
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| dhellmann | mikal: I talked it up with some folks at the summit, especially about the work on oslo.log. Not takers, yet. | 21:17 |
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| mikal | morganfainberg: we have a few faithful operators, but not a lot of smaller deploys are commenting | 21:17 |
| mikal | People do tell me they like the blog posts, but then don't actually comment on reviews | 21:18 |
| mikal | And they're a fair bit of work to write | 21:18 |
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| thingee | I have not had any help on cinder specs from operators. mostly just other vendors making sense of an interface that works for everyone. I would love operators feedback though. | 21:18 |
| morganfainberg | mikal, it might also be the blog posts are sufficient - the specs are less important in direciton because they are smaller they can be nimble about working around / incorporating the spec. | 21:18 |
| morganfainberg | mikal, that is just wild supposition on my part though | 21:19 |
| ttx | OK, what about specs.o.o TOC differences between projects ? Those seem more gratuitous (cc maishsk) | 21:19 |
| devananda | ttx: posted | 21:19 |
| mikal | morganfainberg: yeah, it might also be that they're completely happy | 21:19 |
| mikal | Its hard to tell from the outside | 21:19 |
| mikal | ttx: define TOC differences? | 21:19 |
| maishsk | ttx: the formatting is different - which is confusing | 21:19 |
| mikal | ttx: as in the number of headins displayed? | 21:19 |
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| ttx | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/ | 21:19 |
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| morganfainberg | mikal, ask cburgess next time as well, he's a good voice for the smaller (until recently) deployer groups. | 21:19 |
| ttx | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/ | 21:19 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: working on logging-->you'll see start this week | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | Rockyg: cool | 21:19 |
| ttx | mikal: confusing differences in navigation | 21:20 |
| morganfainberg | mikal even though he contributes code as well | 21:20 |
| ttx | reported by maishsk | 21:20 |
| devananda | mikal: to your question, I'm not sure what to suggest. I have a small set of involved operators, so I poke them directly when I see things that affect them. Also, they have an engaged dev team ... | 21:20 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: +1 | 21:20 |
| cburgess | Did someone say my name? | 21:20 |
| mikal | cburgess: no | 21:20 |
| mikal | :P | 21:20 |
| cburgess | Fine :P | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, I think someone should just submit formatting changes to fix those. Maybe maishsk can do that? | 21:20 |
| mikal | maishsk: so, you're confused because the indx pages look different? | 21:20 |
| mikal | maishsk: isn't that a largely cosmetic problem? | 21:20 |
| maishsk | mikal: not only me | 21:21 |
| jokke_ | ~/msg Rockyg hey there! Erno here, do you have a moment after the meeting to sync up? | 21:21 |
| asalkeld | i like the flat layout | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | maishsk, what specifically is confusing? mor than "there are differences" | 21:21 |
| maishsk | mikal: essentially yes cosmetic | 21:21 |
| jokke_ | darn | 21:21 |
| asalkeld | first world problems :-O | 21:21 |
| maishsk | morganfainberg: the format of the page, why are some of the projects different - layout is different. | 21:21 |
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| mikal | So, bigger projects are always going to want to split per release I would think | 21:22 |
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| mikal | We had nearly 100 specs in Juno for Nova | 21:22 |
| ttx | I think per-cycle split is something we can standardize on | 21:22 |
| maishsk | If the purpose was to make it easier for people to read, I would have to say we are missing the point | 21:22 |
| ttx | even if you have 5 it still makes sense | 21:22 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, ++ | 21:22 |
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| ttx | to at least question if you should copy them over | 21:22 |
| thingee | ttx: +1 | 21:22 |
| maishsk | ttx: ++ | 21:22 |
| SlickNik | mikal / ttx +1 to per cycle split. | 21:22 |
| notmyname | ttx: can we not be prescriptive yet? specs is still something very new, and it's a learning process | 21:22 |
| notmyname | -- to per cycle split | 21:22 |
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| asalkeld | notmyname, +1 | 21:23 |
| mikal | To be honest I am not sure if I see a lot of value in being proscriptive | 21:23 |
| ttx | notmyname: I would only prescribe consensual things at this point. Can you explain your -- ? | 21:23 |
| maishsk | dhellmann: If you are willing to hold my hand (at least in the beginning) - and not have you all bash me on reviews - I would be happy to give it a shot | 21:23 |
| mikal | The templates are differnt as well | 21:23 |
| mikal | Are we goign to force all projects to use the same template | 21:23 |
| mikal | ? | 21:23 |
| maishsk | mikal: Why not? | 21:23 |
| devananda | ++ to per-cycle split in the TOC. I dont care so much if it's in the file layout | 21:24 |
| maishsk | standardization..... | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | maishsk: I can help you with the oslo-specs change, if one is needed. | 21:24 |
| notmyname | making every project use the same structure means that there are less ways that are being experimented. and certainly all projects aren't going to fit the same mold as to what works best (different review loads, different level of activity, etc) | 21:24 |
| mikal | maishsk: because different projects have different things to be concerned about | 21:24 |
| ttx | mikal: I think they may end up sharing best practices by copying themselves a bit more | 21:24 |
| devananda | but also, I don't think it matters enough yet to proscribe it to other projects | 21:24 |
| ttx | but i would let them evolve separately | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | yeah, oslo has very different concerns for graduating a library than nova does when adding a feature | 21:24 |
| devananda | mikal: definitely not the same template across projects | 21:24 |
| mikal | Exactly | 21:24 |
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| maishsk | mikal: are the format of blueprints submitted across projects different - or do they all have the same base structure? | 21:25 |
| devananda | there are certain things some projects care about uniquely, because they are unique | 21:25 |
| mikal | Frankly, I'm very disinterested in being told I can't have a "project priority" heading because its not in the global template (for example) | 21:25 |
| ttx | notmyname: on the other hand, we don't want people to learn 15 different ways of posting a spec | 21:25 |
| mikal | maishsk: blueprints are often a single sentence. They have no format. | 21:25 |
| ttx | 15 different templates is ~ok | 21:25 |
| ttx | 15 different processes... not so much I think | 21:25 |
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| dtroyer | The entire community is traditionally cargo-cultish (see *client). Having at least a default starting point is of value here | 21:25 |
| devananda | ttx: ++ | 21:25 |
| asalkeld | ttx there is a template in each project | 21:25 |
| maishsk | mikal: I am not saying the same information has to be the same - just presented 'cosmetically' the same way | 21:25 |
| jokke_ | maishsk: is there a reason we wanted to step out of the scope of blueprint ;) | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer: we do have a cookiecutter template for new specs repositories | 21:26 |
| ttx | asalkeld: that's fine. Instructions can be "copy and edit template | 21:26 |
| asalkeld | you grab the template and fill it in | 21:26 |
| ttx | " | 21:26 |
| fungi | think infra specs... they span countless infra projects none of which participate in the integrated release cadence | 21:26 |
| ttx | but if they can't tell where to get the template... less fun | 21:26 |
| devananda | same formatting guidelines, same proposal and review process for specs, but variation in templated sections and guidelines therein | 21:26 |
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| devananda | is what seems to make sense to me | 21:26 |
| mtreinish | dtroyer: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-dev/specs-cookiecutter/ | 21:26 |
| maishsk | devananda: exactly - format should be the same across the board | 21:26 |
| bknudson | have there been complaints from people submitting specs to 15 projects? | 21:27 |
| notmyname | ttx: specs are a way to do communication. not a box to check off. we're _really_ early as a community figuring out if specs are good and how to do them better. I'm asking that we let the specs experiment continue to run before formallizing a process | 21:27 |
| bknudson | those are probably the folks who it would be interesting to hear from | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: the complaints are coming from people trying to read them | 21:27 |
| devananda | bknudson: only one that I know of (osprofiler) | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: ++ | 21:27 |
| ttx | notmyname: I'd agree with that. | 21:27 |
| mikal | I think annegentle had a spec in every repo as well? | 21:27 |
| dtroyer | notmyname: ++ … I understood this to be a search for commonality in what we have so far | 21:27 |
| dstanek | what are the complaints exactly? can people not find what they are looking for? | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | as another experiment, I put together a sphinx extension to ensure that the spec name matches a blueprint name in launchpad. I'm adding it to oslosphinx to make it easy for projects to adopt - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140362/6 | 21:28 |
| devananda | notmyname: ++ | 21:28 |
| ttx | notmyname: Iat this point I just want to reduce accidental / gratuitous changes that are not there for a good reason and hurt navigability by people outside of projects, like what maishsk reported with index pages all looking different | 21:28 |
| devananda | dhellmann: oh, neat. that'll solve an issue I've bumped into this week :) | 21:28 |
| Rockyg | so, basic outline and minimum contents across all projects, then notmyname can experiment on top of it | 21:28 |
| ttx | We are not done with experimenting yet | 21:28 |
| thingee | dhellmann: thank you | 21:29 |
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| dhellmann | devananda, thingee : I'll try to get that merged soon and cut a release so you can try it out | 21:29 |
| SlickNik | dhellmann: That's pretty neat. Will take a closer look, thanks! | 21:29 |
| notmyname | ttx: actually, isn't it an important question as to who specs are for? arent' they for the contributing community? isnt' that what we're optimizing for (instead of "external" communication)? maybe that's still part of the expirament | 21:30 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: +1 Cool | 21:30 |
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| jokke_ | notmyname: +1 | 21:30 |
| mikal | notmyname: I think both audiences are important to be honest. | 21:31 |
| ttx | notmyname: I think the concern is about ops getting involved in specs | 21:31 |
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| Rockyg | specs make it easier for the non coding community to participate | 21:31 |
| ttx | they are typically going cross-project | 21:31 |
| maishsk | ttx: notmyname why is that a concern? | 21:31 |
| mikal | notmyname: I very much want ops to tell us we're on the wrong track before we get too far into implementation of a feature | 21:31 |
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| Rockyg | ttx: ++ | 21:31 |
| ttx | and differences are hurtign their experience. Not fatal, I agree, just creating some friction | 21:31 |
| maishsk | mikal: +++++ | 21:31 |
| mikal | ttx: I disagree there | 21:31 |
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| asalkeld | tho' i don't think i have seen any ops folks reviewing heat specs | 21:32 |
| mikal | ttx: ops don't care about proposal processes, as they're not proposing | 21:32 |
| mikal | ttx: they just care about publication and open review | 21:32 |
| bknudson | if you're an op looking at spec reviews you're not worrying about how the toc output looks. | 21:32 |
| ttx | mikal: they still need to figure out the various sites under specs.o.o | 21:32 |
| notmyname | mikal: ya. I was considering ops (deployers) to be part of the contributors. external as in the people looking at openstack externally from a project management perspective | 21:32 |
| mikal | ttx: I actually disagree there too | 21:32 |
| mikal | (sorry) | 21:32 |
| ttx | mikal: that's fine :) | 21:32 |
| mikal | ttx: ops reading specs.o.o is too late | 21:32 |
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| mikal | ttx: the spec is approved at that point | 21:32 |
| maishsk | mikal: unless something rages a huge red flag | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | maishsk: are you aware of anyone using the new rss feeds? | 21:33 |
| mikal | ttx: hence the blog post -- to drive them to gerrit to comment on the review _before_ approval | 21:33 |
| ttx | mikal: you can tell I haven't prepared this topic since I expecetd someone else to drive it :) | 21:33 |
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| mikal | dhellmann: someone blog about them the other day on planet.o.o | 21:33 |
| ttx | hmmm, ok | 21:33 |
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| asalkeld | what we need is an rss of specs in review | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | mikal: yeah, I saw that and encouraged them to add their opml file to the specs page | 21:33 |
| maishsk | according the number people that have hit the page - I would assume so | 21:33 |
| fungi | specs _are_ just files in a git repo, under code review, and can be revised through the same review process if needed | 21:33 |
| notmyname | mikal: actually, that's why we decided to merge specs early and often. as soon as we agree on something, merge it. therefore you have a living document until the implementation is finished | 21:33 |
| mikal | asalkeld: that would be nice. I hand produce that at the moment. | 21:34 |
| mikal | asalkeld: it would be a flood of data though | 21:34 |
| ttx | I guess I'll circle back to john, but it looks like there isn't that much convergence to drive right now | 21:34 |
| mikal | asalkeld: we have 150 proposals for Kilo Nova | 21:34 |
| maishsk | dhellmann: I am trying to get the patches up | 21:34 |
| asalkeld | yeah | 21:34 |
| fungi | asalkeld: mikal: we have a script that publishes arbitrary review info for projects as an rss feed in a swift container. it could be adapted pretty easily | 21:34 |
| ttx | I wanted to touch briefly on procedural -2s | 21:34 |
| ttx | jeblair: is there any plan to support that ? ^ | 21:34 |
| mikal | ttx: yes, that's much more interesting to me | 21:34 |
| * maishsk is not strong enough yet in the ways of OpenStack code submissions. (padawan) | 21:34 | |
| dhellmann | maishsk: oh, that was you!?sorry! | 21:34 |
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| notmyname | ttx: what is a procedural -2? | 21:34 |
| mikal | notmyname: I -2 code proposals wehere the spec hasn't been approved yet | 21:35 |
| mikal | notmyname: to stop accidental merge | 21:35 |
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| mikal | notmyname: it is horrible | 21:35 |
| notmyname | mikal: ah ok. so on the code side, not specs side | 21:35 |
| * dhellmann needs to start doing that | 21:35 | |
| morganfainberg | mikal, we do the same in keystone - especially around FF. | 21:35 |
| ttx | or when we are under some kind of freeze. Not a judgment on the proposal itself, just the wrong moment | 21:35 |
| notmyname | mikal: ya, I've done that (rarely) | 21:35 |
| jeblair | ttx, mikal: i have not forgotten about that | 21:35 |
| mikal | notmyname: yeah, its a process thing. Hence "procedural" | 21:35 |
| morganfainberg | but in specs i don't think we have (though with a hard submit deadline we might this time) | 21:35 |
| ttx | prevents other people from reviewing | 21:35 |
| notmyname | ttx: ok, so that's orthogonal to specs, right? | 21:35 |
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| jeblair | ttx, mikal: i plan on looking into that soon, but it has been holidays + firefighting since summit :( | 21:36 |
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| ttx | it's sometimes part of the spec approval process. And one of the discussions there was in that session in Paris | 21:36 |
| mikal | notmyname: closely related, but we'd do it even without specs at freeze etc | 21:36 |
| bknudson | maybe there's a unicode symbol that could be used in place of -2 | 21:36 |
| notmyname | or, one procedural reason might be related to a spec. but that's not the only reason | 21:36 |
| notmyname | mikal: right. with you. | 21:36 |
| ttx | notmyname: but yes, overlapping | 21:36 |
| mikal | The biggest issue is that they can't be removed by the PTL if the core isn't around | 21:36 |
| notmyname | so what's the question about it? finding a different way to do that? | 21:36 |
| asalkeld | mikal, why do you care that a spec is approved | 21:36 |
| mikal | asalkeld: because we're not landing the code until the spec is approved | 21:36 |
| mikal | asalkeld: that's the point of the spec | 21:36 |
| ttx | jeblair: ok, so too early to put it back on the table | 21:37 |
| jeblair | ttx, mikal: i believe i fully understand the use case and agree that it's important to try to address | 21:37 |
| notmyname | mikal: PTL needs super-core privileges ;-) | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | mikal, this might be a case where another column that is sticky and PTL/project release group only - that blocks merging? | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, cc ^ | 21:37 |
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| asalkeld | for me approving a spec is "we approve of the design" | 21:37 |
| mikal | morganfainberg: I don't want to define implementation | 21:37 |
| fungi | probably best not to bikeshed on gerrit implementation details at this stage | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | mikal, sure | 21:37 |
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| ttx | Alright, last words on that topic before we switch ? | 21:37 |
| mikal | I want to remind jeblair that we want _something_ | 21:37 |
| mikal | And then let infra do their thing | 21:37 |
| asalkeld | and use lp for milestones etc.. | 21:37 |
| jeblair | yep, that's what i signed up for | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, ++ | 21:37 |
| SlickNik | jeblair: thanks! | 21:38 |
| notmyname | hmm...like a -2 workflow | 21:38 |
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| notmyname | or something. cool. looking forward to see what happens | 21:38 |
| ttx | I'll circle back to johnthetubaguy because I'm not sure we coverted all he had in mind, but it looks like there isn't that much convergence to drive right now | 21:38 |
| ttx | let's move on | 21:38 |
| jeblair | (for anyone wondering why i haven't just done it -- it may involve prolog) :) | 21:38 |
| mikal | jeblair: ewww | 21:38 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, hehe | 21:38 |
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| jeblair | hopefulyl that ends the bikeshedding for now | 21:38 |
| * SlickNik pretends he didn't hear that | 21:39 | |
| ttx | #topic osprofiler options naming (kragniz) | 21:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "osprofiler options naming (kragniz) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:39 | |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, can you paint the prolog red? | 21:39 |
| ttx | kragniz: you around ? | 21:39 |
| kragniz | okay, this should be fairly quick | 21:39 |
| kragniz | so let's talk about the option for enabling/disabling osprofiler | 21:39 |
| * mikal departs | 21:39 | |
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| kragniz | in glance, we have an option named '[profiler]/enabled' and all other projects use'[profiler]/profiler_enabled' | 21:39 |
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| kragniz | cinder guys requested 'profiler_enabled' rather than 'enabled' | 21:39 |
| eglynn | [profiler]/profiler_enabled seems superfluous | 21:40 |
| bknudson | I thought this is why we have oslo-incubator and config options in oslo libs? | 21:40 |
| kragniz | and so other projects used that name afterwards | 21:40 |
| kragniz | can we decide on a common name and standardize it across projects? | 21:40 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: yes, that's right | 21:40 |
| eglynn | no need for both the prefix and section, surely? | 21:40 |
| jokke_ | eglynn: +1 | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: ++ | 21:40 |
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| Rockyg | eglynn: +1 | 21:41 |
| bknudson | for some reason we don't have it in keystone. | 21:41 |
| * ttx has no opinion, but I suspect our ops would appreciate some consistency there | 21:41 | |
| morganfainberg | eglynn, ++ | 21:41 |
| kragniz | thingee: do you know the reasons cinder wanted the other name? | 21:41 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, we haven't merged osprofiler | 21:41 |
| kragniz | ttx: that's what I want | 21:41 |
| maishsk | ttx: Hell yeah! | 21:41 |
| kragniz | I don't actually mind one way or the other | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | for anyone still interested in spec reviews, sdague built a nice dashboard for all the spec repositories: http://bit.ly/1wdmq0m | 21:41 |
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| kragniz | but having the same option have the same name across projects makes sense to me | 21:42 |
| ttx | kragniz: if only Glance has a different name, minimal disruption rule would lead us to the other name that everyone else uses. Unelss it sucks really badly | 21:42 |
| jokke_ | ttx: but it does suck really badly | 21:42 |
| kragniz | ttx: yes, so I'm proposing we deprecate 'enabled' in glance and replace it with 'profiler_enabled' | 21:42 |
| notmyname | this is what's put into the config file right? | 21:42 |
| Rockyg | reasoning behind Profileer_enable as that enable is in other parts of code. Reasoning not needed is it's always prefixed with [Profiler} | 21:42 |
| kragniz | notmyname: yup | 21:42 |
| jokke_ | notmyname: correct | 21:42 |
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| notmyname | ya, what Rockyg just said. "enabled" isn't unique | 21:43 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, wondering why cinder is pointed out as the requester when Glance is the outlyer. | 21:43 |
| jungleboyj | What am I missing? | 21:43 |
| jokke_ | jungleboyj: Glance were first implementer and cinder was the second one and they wanted it differently :P | 21:43 |
| jungleboyj | jokke_: Ooops | 21:44 |
| kragniz | jungleboyj: osprofiler support was added to glance first, and used the original config name boris-42 wanted | 21:44 |
| ttx | and then everyone else followed Cinder ? Who is everyone else ? | 21:44 |
| jungleboyj | jokke_: Then everyon else followed us? | 21:44 |
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| kragniz | jungleboyj: yup | 21:44 |
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| jokke_ | jungleboyj: that's it | 21:44 |
| ttx | I think I read "everyone else" doesn't include keystone | 21:44 |
| * jungleboyj looks sheepish | 21:44 | |
| jokke_ | ttx: yet | 21:44 |
| thingee | kragniz: no idea, but I know who would be behind it. | 21:44 |
| jungleboyj | Ruh roh | 21:45 |
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| jokke_ | jungleboyj: I'm not sure if it was everyone else followed or boris implemented with that to everywhere else | 21:45 |
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| bknudson | I wonder how many examples of this kind of thing there are... e.g., different SSL config options | 21:46 |
| ttx | so how many projects are using [profiler]/profiler_enabled at this point ? | 21:46 |
| kragniz | ttx: uuh | 21:46 |
| jungleboyj | jokke_: Understood. So, it seems like it is down to do we change just Glance or get those who used profiler_enabled to change. | 21:46 |
| kragniz | ttx: I had a list somewhere | 21:46 |
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| kragniz | I know heat does | 21:47 |
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| Rockyg | bknudson: too many. but we can fix over time. Gives ops a headache | 21:47 |
| ttx | bknudson: cargoculting means not so many. The problem with osprofiler is atht it was added after the copy | 21:47 |
| morganfainberg | i'd be inclined to say [profiler]/profiler_enabled really isn't that burdonsome or odd or bad | 21:47 |
| morganfainberg | it's just not that awful. this whole discussion feels alot like bikeshed | 21:47 |
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| * maishsk wonders what is a bikeshed | 21:47 | |
| kragniz | morganfainberg: I just wanted my review to be accepted! | 21:47 |
| ttx | My personal preference (not that it matters) would be to limit disruption and option rename | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | maishsk, bikeshed.org | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i agree. | 21:48 |
| jungleboyj | morganfainberg: +1 | 21:48 |
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| bknudson | it's not that disruptive since the old name can work too | 21:48 |
| Rockyg | ttx, ++ | 21:48 |
| ttx | kragniz: but then if glance-core doesn't want to renazme, i can't force them | 21:48 |
| devananda | maishsk: http://bikeshed.com/ | 21:48 |
| kragniz | ttx: ptl doesn't mind one way or the other | 21:49 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: according to the code I have checked out, only cinder, glance, and heat are using osprofiler right now and cinder and heat are the only projects other than the docs that mention profiler_enabled | 21:49 |
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| ttx | hmm, so there is room for converging the other direction | 21:49 |
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| asalkeld | i don't mind a backwards compatible name change (if needed) | 21:50 |
| ttx | if cinder and heat agree their option naming sucks | 21:50 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, this feels like a big kerfuffle over what should be a small change in 1-2 projects | 21:50 |
| devananda | so i'm curious, other than keystone, are there other projects which haven't implemented osprofiler yet? | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | devananda: only 3 projects *have* adopted it so far | 21:50 |
| kragniz | dhellmann: +1 | 21:50 |
| ttx | thingee: do you mind the rename ? | 21:50 |
| devananda | dhellmann: oh. i totally misread that, then. thankjs | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | http://paste.openstack.org/show/148174/ | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | http://paste.openstack.org/show/148180/ | 21:51 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: I am thinking we don'tcare. | 21:51 |
| asalkeld | manuals | 21:51 |
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| dhellmann | asalkeld: yes, but the manuals will have to be updated either way | 21:51 |
| ttx | kragniz: so... maybe submit changes in the other two. and see which one wins | 21:51 |
| * jungleboyj != thingee though | 21:51 | |
| kragniz | ttx: hmm, okay | 21:52 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: Ooooh. | 21:52 |
| thingee | ttx: no | 21:52 |
| ttx | agree that it's less of an issue than I thought if only t3 projects impacted | 21:52 |
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| ttx | 3* | 21:52 |
| ttx | ok, let's move on | 21:52 |
| morganfainberg | more importantly, this sounds like an option that should be owned by osprofiler not each-and-every-project-to-implement0differently, but that is differnt color to paint the bikeshed... | 21:52 |
| morganfainberg | i agree move on | 21:52 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:53 | |
| ttx | We had release 1:1 syncs today, full speed ahead with kilo-1 next week. Logs at: | 21:53 |
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| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-12-09-08.49.html | 21:53 |
| * jokke_ hand morganfainberg bucket of pink paint :P | 21:53 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:53 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: ++ | 21:54 |
| ttx | Neutron is in the middle of its advanced serviuce split process | 21:54 |
| *** knowncitizen is now known as jrist | 21:55 | |
| ttx | If nobody else has anything, I suggest we close early | 21:55 |
| jokke_ | sounds good | 21:56 |
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| ttx | Alright then. Thanks for coming! | 21:56 |
| kragniz | thanks all, sorry for the bikeshed | 21:56 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 9 21:56:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:56 |
| jokke_ | thanks | 21:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2014/crossproject.2014-12-09-21.03.html | 21:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2014/crossproject.2014-12-09-21.03.txt | 21:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2014/crossproject.2014-12-09-21.03.log.html | 21:56 |
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