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| ChristianM_ | test | 04:42 |
|---|---|---|
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| yamahata | hello | 05:00 |
| gongysh | hi | 05:00 |
| ChristianM_ | Hi | 05:00 |
| gongysh | serviceVM meeting? | 05:00 |
| s3wong | Hello | 05:00 |
| yamahata | yes servicevm meeting | 05:00 |
| yamahata | bmelanar is there? | 05:00 |
| balajip | hi team! | 05:00 |
| ChristianM_ | How many people usually join this meeting ? | 05:01 |
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| yamahata | only few | 05:02 |
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| trinaths | has Service VM meeting stated | 05:03 |
| yamahata | wait for bmelande minutes | 05:03 |
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| yamahata | Okay let's start meeting | 05:04 |
| yamahata | #startmeeting servicevm-device-manager | 05:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 05:04:48 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager' | 05:04 |
| yamahata | thank you for attending servicevm meeting | 05:05 |
| yamahata | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/servicevm | 05:05 |
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| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM | 05:05 |
| ChristianM_ | Could you remind the discussion and conclusion if any of the Atlanta session in Neutron ? | 05:05 |
| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ServiceVM | 05:05 |
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| s3wong | bmelande: Hi | 05:06 |
| yamahata | #topic design summit followup | 05:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "design summit followup (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:06 | |
| bmelande | All: Hi | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | bmelande: hi. The meeting has just started. | 05:06 |
| bmelande | yamahata: ok | 05:07 |
| yamahata | The conclusion at Atlanta is that servicevm/device-manager project should be out of Neutron | 05:07 |
| yamahata | So we will start a new project for separated service | 05:07 |
| ChristianM_ | ok | 05:08 |
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| balajip | yamahata: Is it like, ServiceVM should not use Neutron resources? | 05:08 |
| yamahata | unite for starting incubation process and gather/attract contributer. | 05:08 |
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| yamahata | balajip: Yes, serviceVM will use Neutron. | 05:08 |
| s3wong | and Nova | 05:09 |
| yamahata | life cycle management of services, VMs should be separated out. | 05:09 |
| balajip | yamahata: ok | 05:09 |
| yamahata | Network related part will remain in Neutron. | 05:09 |
| bmelande | And all(?) initial use cases will be for neutron (advanced) services | 05:09 |
| ChristianM_ | Currently is there any service which is not neutron related ? | 05:10 |
| yamahata | ChristianM_: I'm not aware of such services so far. | 05:10 |
| gongysh | We need to identify as we go. | 05:11 |
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| ChristianM_ | OK. Networking aspect stays in Neutron and life cycle moves out to Nova ? | 05:11 |
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| yamahata | life cycle management of services/VM is part of servicevm service. | 05:12 |
| yamahata | Not nova. | 05:12 |
| malini1 | Is lifecycle -- starting/pausing/stoping VMs not already covred by nova? what is specific to lifecycle management for NFV VMs? | 05:12 |
| balajip | ChristianM_:ServiceVM needs both Nova and Neutron as it has to deploy Network services | 05:12 |
| yamahata | Nova will be used just to spin up/down VMs | 05:13 |
| yamahata | As follow-up, I create a draft of incubation-applicatin page | 05:13 |
| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/Incugbation | 05:13 |
| ChristianM_ | It looks like there is nova for spin up/down the VM, serviceVM for life cycle mgmt but what is it exactly and then neutron for network connectivity | 05:13 |
| yamahata | I also summarized request for Neutron/other page. | 05:14 |
| malini1 | yamahata: using nova to spin up/down VMs -- what is left for life cycle management? | 05:14 |
| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/neutron-and-other-project-items | 05:14 |
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| gongysh | Incugbation -> Incubation? | 05:15 |
| yamahata | malini1: life cycle management of services. e.g. pooling VMs/services | 05:15 |
| bmelande | malini1: if, say, you want a pool of standby VMs that are idle by already booted, then maintaining that pool could be part of life cycle managnentm | 05:15 |
| yamahata | gongysh: ouch. will fix | 05:15 |
| balajip | yamahata:Also, we have to define the relation between NFV sub team and ServiceVM team | 05:15 |
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| s3wong | balajip: agreed. The NFV subteam currently is handing out requirements, and they would have to give us requirements for serviceVM | 05:16 |
| yamahata | balajip: Yes, tomorrow, there is NFV irc meeting. | 05:16 |
| ChristianM_ | balajip: Should the serviceVM be the VM services used for NFV ? | 05:16 |
| malini1 | yamahata: ah, pooling. do we anticipate a lot of pooled VMs waiting be deployed? would it make sense to defer "life cycle management" to a later phase, that is not support pooling initially? | 05:16 |
| balajip | yamahata: Am little concerned that these two sub-groups may do the same tasks. | 05:17 |
| yamahata | So far I have been challenged if servicevm is not needed. | 05:17 |
| ChristianM_ | yamahata: Is needed or is not needed ? | 05:17 |
| s3wong | ChristianM_: serviceVM is considered one of the projects needed by NFV: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NFV | 05:17 |
| balajip | ChristianM_:Iam assuming | 05:17 |
| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NFV | 05:17 |
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| yamahata | ChristianM_: some said servicevm is NOT needed for NFV | 05:18 |
| yamahata | But I think serviceVM corresponds to VNF manager | 05:18 |
| balajip | ChristianM_:IMHO,it is needed and both of them will be very tightly coupled. | 05:18 |
| ChristianM_ | This is my assumption also but we need to show how they're complementary | 05:19 |
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| gongysh | VM based NFV is naturally distributed and software defined. | 05:19 |
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| yamahata | gongysh: fixed link | 05:20 |
| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/Incubation | 05:20 |
| ChristianM_ | Pool of VM might be important for fault-tolerance in the NFV context | 05:20 |
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| yamahata | Before detailed discussion, can I raise logistics staff? | 05:20 |
| yamahata | Can you please add your names to incubation page and your bio. | 05:21 |
| ChristianM_ | sure | 05:21 |
| s3wong | yamahata: what needs to be included in bio? | 05:21 |
| yamahata | #action everyone add your name/bio to contributor of incubation page | 05:21 |
| malini1 | yamahata: sure | 05:21 |
| yamahata | s3wong: section "Project developers qualifications" needs it. very simple bio would be ok. | 05:22 |
| bmelande | It looks to me like what is listed so on NFV page is fixes needed in Nova and Neutron. | 05:22 |
| bmelande | yamahata:Ok will add | 05:22 |
| s3wong | bmelande: needed development (not yet started) | 05:23 |
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| yamahata | Regarding to neutron side, I summarized requirement for neutron in etherpad into matrix. | 05:23 |
| malini1 | ChristiamM_: what do you mean by fault tolerance? Like HA for load balancing? That I would consider as single distributor VM passing on the work to the actual handlers | 05:24 |
| balajip | yamahata:sure, Also i think we should make some quick decisions on ETSI - NFV also like should we follow similar nomenclature and as well architecture etc | 05:24 |
| yamahata | I think we can address those items parally. | 05:24 |
| ChristianM_ | Malini1: yes | 05:24 |
| yamahata | balajip: you mean terminology and so on? yes. | 05:24 |
| balajip | yamahata: yes | 05:25 |
| yamahata | I created terminology wiki page. But gerrit would be better. | 05:25 |
| s3wong | balajip: that sounds like the NFV subgroup issue, right? Should the serviceVM subteam to conform to NFV terminologies, or is it more NFV subteam's problem? | 05:25 |
| malini1 | balajip: does rest of neutron adopt ETSI nomenclature? what about OpenDayLight? | 05:25 |
| yamahata | #action yamahata create tacker-specs page | 05:25 |
| yamahata | #undo | 05:25 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x250a4d0> | 05:25 |
| yamahata | #action yamahata create tacker-specs repo in stackforge for further discussion on terminology | 05:26 |
| s3wong | malin1: not us in advanced services, we don't care much about NFV terminology | 05:26 |
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| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/terminology | 05:26 |
| s3wong | malin1: and so far, there is a project filed by Contextstream and Ericsson on service chaining on ODL, but not sure if they follow NFV terminology | 05:26 |
| balajip | s3wong:IMHO, ServiceVM is superset of NFV sub-team | 05:26 |
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| balajip | malini1:Neutron may not need to adopt ETSI nomenclature, but Service VM must follow ETSI for adoption of NFV based deployments using OpenStack | 05:27 |
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| s3wong | balajip: well, we will see on Wednesday. So far, the NFV subgroup mission statement seems to point to requirement generation | 05:28 |
| gongysh | sorry, what does ETSI stand for? | 05:28 |
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| yamahata | gongysh: http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/nfv | 05:28 |
| yamahata | #link http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/nfv | 05:29 |
| ChristianM_ | gongysh: Europen Telecom Standars Institute | 05:29 |
| gongysh | got it, thanks | 05:29 |
| balajip | gongysh:European Telecom Standards Institute whose is leading the NFV architecture for deployments | 05:29 |
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| malini1 | balajip: ok ETSI nomenclature -- :-) unless the Americas have another nomenclature +1 | 05:29 |
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| balajip | malini1:agreed, but if you see for NFV all other projects like ONF, ODL are following ETSI!! | 05:30 |
| s3wong | malini1: actually Verizon is one of the leaders of this effort in ETSI, so us Americans are contributing there too :-) | 05:30 |
| yamahata | anyway we need to converge terminology between two implementation. | 05:30 |
| yamahata | though that, we also see NFV terminology | 05:31 |
| yamahata | s/though/through/ | 05:31 |
| balajip | yamahata:agreed, lets define the scope and goal for service VM. | 05:31 |
| malini1 | Cool. ETSI +1 stands then. From a requirements standpoint .. what would each of you want and need to plugin your special NFV. what would be minimal useful milestones | 05:31 |
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| yamahata | balajip: agree with defining scope. | 05:32 |
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| gongysh | first, I need a routerVM implemneted. | 05:32 |
| yamahata | I wrote a draft in incubation page. | 05:32 |
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| balajip | yamahata:lets work on consensus for the draft in incubation page and any other updates to it, | 05:33 |
| yamahata | I think, it's consensus that service for life cycle management is included | 05:33 |
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| balajip | yamahata:ok | 05:33 |
| gongysh | yamahata: the vm pool is a good one | 05:33 |
| yamahata | it is being discussed whether NFV is in its scope or not | 05:33 |
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| yamahata | What's the issues to include NFV to its scope? | 05:34 |
| balajip | yamahata:IMHO, it must be there. Comments from the team will be good. | 05:34 |
| s3wong | yamahata: if we want a vm pool, then we need to several changes to Nova / Neutron: (a) should be able to create VM without having a Neutron port, and (b) able to unplug a VM's Neutron port from a Neutron network | 05:35 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: My point is not technical detail. My question is, is there any reason to exclude NFV out of servicevm project? | 05:36 |
| gongysh | s3wong; I guess by a pool of vm, these vm should be spun up already, they just are not in position. | 05:36 |
| yamahata | Or NFV should be included in its scope? | 05:36 |
| malini1 | s3wong: today nova lets us launch multiple VMs with the same glance image .. how is VM pool different for NFVs? | 05:36 |
| bmelande | yamahata: I think serviceVM should support NFV use cases - if not we'll be obsolete | 05:37 |
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| gongysh | bmelande: agreed, what are left to us if we don't support NFV? | 05:37 |
| s3wong | yamahata: will need to see how NFV subteam is structured on Wednesday meeting. Whether serviceVM should do general purpose work or conforming to be part of NFV task | 05:37 |
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| bmelande | malini1: pool mgmt = deciding when that spin up/down of VM should happen. | 05:38 |
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| ChristianM_ | Agree with bmelande, If we don't support NFV usage models it will be useless very quickly | 05:38 |
| s3wong | gongysh: Nova with Neutron requires a VM to be spawnwith at least one Neutron port, and it has to be plugged into a Network | 05:38 |
| malini1 | bmelande: thank you. | 05:38 |
| s3wong | gongysh: worse still, the network you plugged in initially can never be changed during the lifttime of the VM | 05:38 |
| bmelande | s3wong: But until that is supported "dummy" Neutron networks could be used to plugg the VM to | 05:39 |
| yamahata | s3wong: I see. general purose or NFV conformance is big question for our direction | 05:39 |
| s3wong | bmelande: yeah, that's what we talked about during the J-Summit, We would love to avoid this :-) | 05:39 |
| yamahata | I think servicevm project should be super set of NFV use case | 05:40 |
| gongysh | s3wong: that is a technique issue, with little change , we can create VM without port or something | 05:40 |
| balajip | yamahata:we should adopt ETSI NFV conformance for the success and adoption of our service. | 05:40 |
| bmelande | balaji: I tend to agree with that. | 05:40 |
| malini1 | serviceVMs born for NFV. Assuming other services will be less demanding! | 05:40 |
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| balajip | malini1:I completely agree with you | 05:41 |
| yamahata | balajip: lean for NFV conformance | 05:41 |
| s3wong | gongysh: you know, I haven't looked into nova (or probably more specifically, ovs driver) to know for sure. But I just want to reflect on some requirements given by other Neutron services team | 05:41 |
| ChristianM_ | balaji: I agree also | 05:41 |
| yamahata | Okay, I'll update draft to include NFV conformance | 05:41 |
| yamahata | #action yamahata update draft to include NFV conformance | 05:41 |
| yamahata | Regarding to separating vif creation and network connection, is there anyone to volunteer to write neutron spec? | 05:42 |
| s3wong | yamahata: I haven't looked into ETSI NFV specs, so they have requirements for lifecycle management of VMs? | 05:42 |
| balajip | All: good that we are all on the same page w.r.t NFV conformance | 05:42 |
| s3wong | yamahata: I will take a look at that, since I brought it up :-) | 05:43 |
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| yamahata | #action s3wong look into vif creation/network connection | 05:43 |
| yamahata | s3wong: can you also update the page https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/neutron-and-other-project-items ? | 05:44 |
| yamahata | to show that you're working on it | 05:44 |
| bmelande | yamahata, s3wong: change is probably in Nova rather than Neutron | 05:44 |
| s3wong | yamahata: yes, of course | 05:44 |
| s3wong | bmelande: that's what I expect also | 05:44 |
| yamahata | bmelande: probably. | 05:44 |
| malini1 | bmelande: what do you mean by change in Nova? You mean for life vm cycle support? | 05:45 |
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| bmelande | malini1: I was referring to the vif issue, spinning up VM without any networks | 05:46 |
| malini1 | bmelande: thanks | 05:46 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: ETSI NFV spec, http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-opsawg-6.pdf and http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-opsawg-7.pdf would help | 05:47 |
| yamahata | #link http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-opsawg-7.pdf | 05:47 |
| malini1 | question: can a single NFV instance be used for one tenant and then later repurposed for another tenant without any scrubbing? or does that depend on the NFV type? | 05:47 |
| yamahata | #link http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-opsawg-6.pdf | 05:47 |
| balajip | malini1:It depends on the deployment type. | 05:49 |
| yamahata | malini1: it depends on VM image. I haven't looked at NFV spec closely yet, though. | 05:49 |
| gongysh | I think we should return the NFV instance back to pool until it can be repurposed to anther tenant. | 05:50 |
| gongysh | So we must clear tenant related stuff during the returning. | 05:50 |
| bmelande | malini1: perhaps this is a new requirement, i.e. ability to specify that VM instance can be "reused" or not (after having being used for some tenant) | 05:51 |
| yamahata | okay ten minutes left. | 05:51 |
| yamahata | any other issues? | 05:52 |
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| malini1 | bmelande: looks like a parameter. if latency to create an NFV instance is large, then we would always have 1 or two spares created a fresh with just configuration to be applied. this approach if scrubbing or proving scrubbed for security is difficult | 05:53 |
| balajip | yamahata:what are the action items we have for this week? | 05:53 |
| malini1 | i would like vry much to know what next concrete steps are and what we want to implement, architect and get started | 05:53 |
| malini1 | :-) | 05:54 |
| yamahata | #action everyone review incubation page | 05:54 |
| bmelande | Regarding ETSI NVF: So we strive to be compliant with their terminology? But perhaps not necessarily implement their architecture? | 05:54 |
| yamahata | bmelande: yes. So we can do design/implementation and terminology discussion in parallel. | 05:55 |
| s3wong | bmelande: we (at least I) have to look into what special use cases are required by NFV specifically on VM (both network connectivity and lifecycle) | 05:55 |
| balajip | bmelande:agree, lets go throught the given links and discuss in the next week meeting | 05:55 |
| malini1 | bmelande: +1. i am thinking of minimal implementation, then a phase-2, phase-3. but phase-1 should meet the needs of the vrouter mentioned | 05:55 |
| ChristianM_ | bmelande: I think we should align terminology then the appropriate Openstack implementation | 05:55 |
| s3wong | bmelande: at least initially, seems like we will focus more on NFV use cases (as agreed by the community here) | 05:55 |
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| malini1 | i heard that cisco had a solution and perhaps something needs to be merged or extended. are we starting with cisco implementation? | 05:56 |
| bmelande | malini1: Yes, we have one implementation, and Isaku has one, and others do too. :-) | 05:57 |
| bmelande | malini1: with more or less overlaps | 05:57 |
| yamahata | bmelande: can you provide the link to github? | 05:57 |
| malini1 | i was also thinking that a phase-1 would be developing a serviceVM catalog that the neutron nfv flavor guys could query | 05:57 |
| balajip | malini1: we do have one ...:-) | 05:57 |
| malini1 | :-) :-) do we really need to build another? | 05:58 |
| bmelande | No, let's merge them :-) | 05:58 |
| malini1 | does it make sense to have each of the implementations dicussed and adopt the richest or the minimal set or ..? | 05:58 |
| balajip | malini1: we have to bring all the good feature together and make it more appropriate for adoption. | 05:58 |
| s3wong | malin1: we would like to consolidate | 05:58 |
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| yamahata | +1 for merge | 05:59 |
| malini1 | +1 merge | 05:59 |
| ChristianM_ | I think merging all features would be great and provide some momentum | 05:59 |
| ChristianM_ | +1 merge | 05:59 |
| balajip | +1 for merge | 05:59 |
| gongysh | just like the opendaylight, the core will help lots. | 05:59 |
| gongysh | +1 for merge and then develop more | 06:00 |
| yamahata | Great. time is running out. | 06:00 |
| malini1 | gongysh: assume you will not get much help from neutron core, they are swamped | 06:00 |
| yamahata | tomorrow, there is NFV irc meeting and let's advocate our project. | 06:00 |
| malini1 | would it be possible to send out links to each impl and a presentation | 06:00 |
| bmelande | yamahata: +1 | 06:01 |
| malini1 | i would suggest startign with one as base and slowly merging in the others, feature by feature | 06:01 |
| yamahata | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM has many links | 06:01 |
| malini1 | but need to choose the first impl | 06:01 |
| balajip | yamahata:sure, we should do that | 06:01 |
| gongysh | malini1: we can do it ourselves. | 06:01 |
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| malini1 | yamahata: thank you, i have hme work :-) | 06:01 |
| yamahata | okay any other last word? | 06:01 |
| ChristianM_ | what time is the NFV irc meeting tomorrow ? | 06:02 |
| malini1 | gongysh: +1 | 06:02 |
| s3wong | ChristianM_: Wed 14:00 UTC | 06:02 |
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| s3wong | same channel as here | 06:02 |
| balajip | thanks..had a very good discussion..today | 06:02 |
| ChristianM_ | thanks | 06:02 |
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| yamahata | thank you. | 06:02 |
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| malini1 | thanks and bye | 06:02 |
| gongysh | bye | 06:03 |
| bmelande | Thanks. Bye! | 06:03 |
| yamahata | We'll have irc meeting next week. | 06:03 |
| yamahata | thank, bye | 06:03 |
| s3wong | thank you guys for your enthusisam for the project! | 06:03 |
| ChristianM_ | thanks, bye | 06:03 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 06:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 06:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 06:03:22 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 06:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-03-05.04.html | 06:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-03-05.04.txt | 06:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-03-05.04.log.html | 06:03 |
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| akamyshnikova | Hi everyone! | 12:58 |
| mestery | Hi! | 12:58 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 12:58 |
| jlibosva | hi | 12:58 |
| akamyshnikova | HenryG, are you here? | 12:59 |
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| HenryG | akamyshnikova: yes | 12:59 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: ping | 12:59 |
| salv-orlando | Hi | 13:00 |
| HenryG | #startmeeting neutron_db | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 13:00:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is HenryG. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_db' | 13:00 |
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| HenryG | Today's agenda: | 13:00 |
| HenryG | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDB#Agenda | 13:00 |
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| HenryG | #topic Spec/Blueprint | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec/Blueprint (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:01 | |
| chuckC | hi | 13:01 |
| HenryG | #link https://review.openstack.org/95738 | 13:01 |
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| HenryG | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/db-migration-refactor | 13:01 |
| HenryG | I have linked some bugs to the BP. | 13:01 |
| HenryG | Please add any missing associated bugs. | 13:01 |
| HenryG | (In the launchpad BP page, click on "Link a bug report".) | 13:01 |
| HenryG | Some of those bugs may be abandoned. We'll discuss this shortly. | 13:01 |
| HenryG | The questions raised in the spec review are design questions, so let's discuss those now. | 13:02 |
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| HenryG | #topic Design | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:03 | |
| salv-orlando | I have missed the previous meeting - so if I’m talking about stuff already committed please just reply “sorry, already committed" | 13:03 |
| akamyshnikova | yes I've got this document with some notes and related link to change #link https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/10p6JKIQf_rymBuNeOywjHiv53cRTfz5kBg8LeUCeykI/edit | 13:03 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: good to have you here! | 13:03 |
| salv-orlando | I am still “supporting” a model where the migrations are healed within the migration path; this is mostly to make it easier for operators. | 13:03 |
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| salv-orlando | I also think and I believe we all agree that we don’t need to support offline migrations | 13:04 |
| salv-orlando | And I still think we can rework existing migrations, guaranteeing downgrade up to havana | 13:04 |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: So you mean no separate migration timelines? | 13:05 |
| salv-orlando | yes. But since you’re supporting an approach for a fresh start, this is probably not feasible? | 13:06 |
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| HenryG | I am going to ask akamyshnikova and jlibosva to offer their opinions. | 13:06 |
| akamyshnikova | using healing migration have such plus that would be easier get context and won't be such problem that someone forgot to run --heal. But using separate script is also acceptable | 13:07 |
| akamyshnikova | rpodolyaka, what do you think do we need a separate script? | 13:08 |
| salv-orlando | I thionk there are two problem with an upgrade script. None of them is a show stopper | 13:08 |
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| salv-orlando | 1) operators should be aware of it and execute it prior to deploying juno. If the operator is a trunk chaser it should execute it immediately before rolling any juno commit | 13:08 |
| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: I think, no. so it would be just another migration | 13:09 |
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| jlibosva | salv-orlando: why it cannot be run from neutron-db-manage? but not part of migration | 13:09 |
| salv-orlando | 2) discontinuity - no downgrade. Tipically people don’t. But sometimes things do not go right, so you have to. | 13:09 |
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| HenryG | The trickiest issue I see is that before the healing the schema is not a known thing (it depends on the config). So how can we downgrade to that? | 13:09 |
| jlibosva | I guess you still have the config | 13:10 |
| salv-orlando | jlibosva: I am assuming you do not want to add conditional switches in neutron-db-manage to say if you’re going past icehouse then do first the script and then resume migration | 13:10 |
| salv-orlando | I was think that we don’t need to keep all those hundreds of migrations we have. | 13:10 |
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| salv-orlando | if you install anything past icehouse. I would have a situation like the following: | 13:11 |
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| salv-orlando | from icehouse upwards first run healing migration and then any other migration that it might be added | 13:11 |
| salv-orlando | from icehouse backward run healing migration again, and then a single, coalesced migration from going from icehouse to havana | 13:12 |
| salv-orlando | as grizzly is not supported anymore - havana can be considered starting point | 13:12 |
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| salv-orlando | the healing migration, being idempotent | 13:12 |
| salv-orlando | can be at multiple places in the migration path. | 13:12 |
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| salv-orlando | I think we all agree it will be idempotent, regardless of whether it’s a migration or a script? | 13:13 |
| jlibosva | right | 13:13 |
| salv-orlando | meaning that if you run it twice you don’t screw your database! | 13:13 |
| akamyshnikova | no, I think running it twice won't be a problem. | 13:14 |
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| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: it will probably depend on how you 'heal' the schema :) | 13:15 |
| HenryG | rpodolyaka: have you seen akamyshnikova 's WIP? | 13:15 |
| rpodolyaka | HenryG: I saw some patch last week. Haven't seen updated stuff yet | 13:16 |
| * HenryG is looking for the patch ... | 13:16 | |
| rpodolyaka | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96438/2 ? | 13:17 |
| akamyshnikova | the last one is this #link https://review.openstack.org/96438 | 13:17 |
| akamyshnikova | yes :) | 13:17 |
| * rpodolyaka looks | 13:17 | |
| rpodolyaka | akamyshnikova: I'll some comments | 13:18 |
| rpodolyaka | *leave | 13:18 |
| akamyshnikova | of course, all comments are welcome | 13:19 |
| salv-orlando | I think the concept would be pretty much “if this table is not there create it” or “if this column is not there, create it" | 13:19 |
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| salv-orlando | technically not super-difficult, but surely boring as hell | 13:19 |
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| HenryG | So are we agreeing that we'll aim for a "healing migration" and stop calling it a script? | 13:19 |
| akamyshnikova | there I use alembic that find out all differences | 13:19 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: looking at Anna’s patch it could be easily script run withing a migration | 13:20 |
| rpodolyaka | salv-orlando: probably, also missing unique constraints and indexes? | 13:20 |
| salv-orlando | rpodolyaka: you’re tempting my pedantry… | 13:20 |
| salv-orlando | So you can have a script for people who do not wish using migrations (if there’s anybody out there who runs for instance only on autogenerated schemas) | 13:20 |
| salv-orlando | and the same script being executed within the migration path | 13:21 |
| HenryG | I thought we are going to remove auto-generation? | 13:21 |
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| salv-orlando | Yes we are. | 13:24 |
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| salv-orlando | until that happens however people might still do that. | 13:24 |
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| salv-orlando | And also I was just looking for a good excuse to give users the double option of having an offline script to heal the database as well as a migration. | 13:25 |
| HenryG | OK | 13:25 |
| HenryG | So I assume the removing auto-generation of db schema from models at startup: that will have to be done some time after we have committed the healing? | 13:26 |
| salv-orlando | Anyway I think we can move the technical discussions around design to gerrit, since the spec is there now. | 13:26 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: I think we can do that also in parallel, do you see a reason why we shouldn’t be able to do so? | 13:26 |
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| jlibosva | salv-orlando: IIRC Mark told me the db scheme is not the same when using neutron-db-manage and create_all() | 13:27 |
| jlibosva | because of missing stuff in migrations | 13:27 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: if it goes in before then we can skip the extra script? | 13:27 |
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| salv-orlando | jlibosva: anna is looking after discrepancies | 13:28 |
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| salv-orlando | HenryG: I guess so. | 13:29 |
| HenryG | So ... | 13:29 |
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| HenryG | 1) fix migrations bugs currently filed | 13:30 |
| salv-orlando | Honestly however the devil is in the details here, so I’d rely on the outcome of the various jenkins jobs for the patch that remove the migrations | 13:30 |
| jlibosva | migrations or auto-generation? | 13:30 |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: I think we have all the bugs filed | 13:30 |
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| HenryG | 2) remove auto-generation | 13:31 |
| HenryG | 3) Supply healing migration | 13:31 |
| HenryG | 4) ... | 13:31 |
| HenryG | 5) Profit! | 13:31 |
| jlibosva | I was hoping for that! | 13:32 |
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| HenryG | I am still little fuzzy on the downgrade, but let's discuss that in the spec comments. | 13:32 |
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| salv-orlando | What is item #4? | 13:32 |
| salv-orlando | pray that everything works? | 13:33 |
| rpodolyaka | :) | 13:33 |
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| akamyshnikova | We all agreed about not to do downgrade for healing script, am I right? | 13:33 |
| jlibosva | If we will fix all the missing parts in migrations, does it have to be in healing script then? | 13:33 |
| HenryG | akamyshnikova: My fuzzy understanding is the downgrade will be a one-time special to havana only. | 13:34 |
| jlibosva | imo downgrade is not worth it | 13:34 |
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| HenryG | What I am not clear on is juno -> icehouse downgrade | 13:35 |
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| salv-orlando | I was thinking that the downgrade brings you in a parallel universe | 13:36 |
| salv-orlando | ;) | 13:36 |
| salv-orlando | where the parallel universe has a consistent “icehouse” db state | 13:36 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: is that really a downgrade? or a slidegrade? | 13:37 |
| salv-orlando | but if you do not want to break space time continuum, then just kill the old migration path, and start a new one with juno | 13:37 |
| salv-orlando | whatever it is it will give you an icehouse database you can use with the software | 13:37 |
| HenryG | true | 13:37 |
| salv-orlando | (I don’t know what a slidegrade is) | 13:38 |
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| HenryG | I meant sidegrade. It wasn't very funny. | 13:38 |
| salv-orlando | Is it a downgrade done with powerpoint? :p | 13:38 |
| salv-orlando | I see it’s pretty much like Doc’s diagrams on back to the future I guess... | 13:38 |
| salv-orlando | you go back to icehouse but it’s not the icehouse you used to kniow | 13:39 |
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| HenryG | The downgrade to icehouse/havana can be worked on separately? | 13:39 |
| salv-orlando | yes it can I guess | 13:39 |
| HenryG | If so, we can keep it on a wishlist status. | 13:39 |
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| HenryG | Let's concentrate our efforts on the healing migration for now. | 13:40 |
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| HenryG | I will update the spec | 13:41 |
| HenryG | Please keep the review comments coming | 13:41 |
| HenryG | Any other design questions? | 13:42 |
| akamyshnikova | ok, also I hope to see some comments to my WIP change. | 13:42 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: I like the diplomatic answer to say - yes we could do that but I’d rather not ;) | 13:42 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: If I wrote that you would -1 me | 13:43 |
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| salv-orlando | whatever works for operators works for me anyway, so if we don’t have a requirement for downgrades from juno to havana I’m fine with doing keeping the discontinuity | 13:44 |
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| HenryG | Is there an operators list? Should I ask there? | 13:45 |
| salv-orlando | operators@lists.openstack.org | 13:45 |
| salv-orlando | http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | 13:45 |
| HenryG | #action HenryG to ask about downgrade requirements on operators list | 13:45 |
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| HenryG | salv-orlando: thanks | 13:46 |
| HenryG | moving on | 13:46 |
| HenryG | #topic Testing | 13:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:46 | |
| HenryG | akamyshnikova: can you update me/us on what you are syncing from oslo? | 13:47 |
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| akamyshnikova | it was a module that created rpodolyaka that check models and migrations synchronization. As it had to be moved from oslo to oslo.db work on this stoped. | 13:48 |
| HenryG | Is oslo.db a package? | 13:49 |
| salv-orlando | afaik is still “incubating” is it? | 13:49 |
| rpodolyaka | it's graduated | 13:49 |
| rpodolyaka | we haven't cut the first release yet | 13:50 |
| salv-orlando | ah good to know, so we need to do another big port in neutron as we’re doing for oslo.messaging | 13:50 |
| rpodolyaka | I hope the transition will be fairly smooth | 13:50 |
| rpodolyaka | no big changes needed | 13:50 |
| HenryG | rpodolyaka: when will it be released? | 13:50 |
| rpodolyaka | HenryG: asap, we are waiting for a few important patches to be merged first | 13:50 |
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| HenryG | I would rather go directly to the package if possible | 13:51 |
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| HenryG | rpodolyaka: will you be introducing oslo.db to neutron? | 13:52 |
| rpodolyaka | HenryG: yeah, as soon as it's released :) | 13:52 |
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| HenryG | OK, please keep me up to date on the progress | 13:53 |
| rpodolyaka | HenryG: sure, np | 13:53 |
| HenryG | #topic Meeting time | 13:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Meeting time (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:53 | |
| HenryG | Can we move the meeting to Mondays at 1300 UTC? | 13:54 |
| akamyshnikova | yes :) | 13:54 |
| jlibosva | np | 13:54 |
| HenryG | rpodolyaka ? | 13:54 |
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| salv-orlando | mondays are fine for me fwiw | 13:55 |
| HenryG | Great. I will update the wiki | 13:56 |
| rpodolyaka | HenryG: works for me | 13:56 |
| HenryG | #topic Open discussion | 13:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_db)" | 13:56 | |
| HenryG | If there are no further questions I will end the meeting | 13:56 |
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| akamyshnikova | I have no questions | 13:57 |
| HenryG | Thanks everyone for your time! | 13:57 |
| HenryG | See you in the spec and code reviews! | 13:57 |
| HenryG | #endmeeting | 13:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 13:58:16 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-06-03-13.00.html | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-06-03-13.00.txt | 13:58 |
| jlibosva | bye | 13:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-06-03-13.00.log.html | 13:58 |
| rpodolyaka | thanks all! bye! | 13:58 |
| akamyshnikova | thanks! bye! | 13:58 |
| salv-orlando | adieu | 13:58 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 14:00:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | Hello everyone | 14:01 |
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| xuhanp | hello | 14:01 |
| aveiga | o/ | 14:01 |
| baoli | Hi | 14:01 |
| SridharG | Hi | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-IPv6-Subteam#Agenda_for_June_3rd Agenda | 14:01 |
| pcarver | hi | 14:01 |
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| BrianB___ | hi | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | #topic blueprints | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:02 | |
| sc68cal | We currently have at least one blueprint that is set for J-1 | 14:02 |
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| sc68cal | The blueprint for upstream slaac support was merged last week | 14:03 |
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| sc68cal | I believe we need blueprints created in neutron-specs for the blueprints that cover code changes to dnsmasq | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | such as https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/dnsmasq-ipv6-slaac | 14:04 |
| xuhanp | +1 | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | Are there any new BPs to discuss? | 14:05 |
| baoli | sc68cal: I've updated the RA BP neutron spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92164/9 | 14:05 |
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| dane_leblanc | sc68cal: I'm working on design spec for multi-IPv6-prefix blueprint, should be out shortly. | 14:06 |
| sc68cal | dane_leblanc: very cool | 14:07 |
| aveiga | I'm working out some kinks on the ipv6 floating IP BP as well | 14:07 |
| aveiga | should also be up this week | 14:07 |
| sc68cal | baoli: I still have some concerns about your proposal to replace the two attribute with a new single attribute | 14:07 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, I think someone mentioned IPv6 metadata in email discussion. I am very interested and want to investigate more. | 14:07 |
| sc68cal | Firstly, we started from a single attribute back during the Havana timeframe | 14:08 |
| sc68cal | then through this subteam determined that two attributes was more suitable | 14:08 |
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| baoli | sc68cal: I understand your concerns | 14:08 |
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| sc68cal | This is only my opinion, but we'd pretty much have to stop all the work we're doing and go back to square one. That means no real IPv6 support untill probably K timeframe | 14:09 |
| aveiga | baoli: I'm curious. You mention in the spec that the two attrib approach uses two copies of dnsmasq and list that as a drawback. How do you intend to have a dhcpv6 network and route packets without something else to issue RAs? | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: cool - yeah metadata is tricky since AWS has no ipv6. | 14:10 |
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| baoli | aveiga, the spec talks about RAs, right? | 14:10 |
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| aveiga | yup | 14:10 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, can we discuss the comments in the dnsmasq patch? | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | baoli: if there are no further blueprints, yeah I can advance the topic to code review | 14:12 |
| baoli | sc68cal, one of the reasons for me to propose the one attribute (I understand it's kind of late in the sicussion) is after reviewing the changes in very detail | 14:12 |
| baoli | sc68cal, sure | 14:12 |
| sc68cal | #topic code review | 14:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code review (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:13 | |
| sc68cal | do you have a link, there's a couple patches re dnsmasq | 14:13 |
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| baoli | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70649/15/neutron/agent/linux/dhcp.py | 14:13 |
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| baoli | so the values of the two attributes are used to determine the command line for dnsmasq, and there are some concerns on how that's done in the patch. | 14:14 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: ok | 14:16 |
| baoli | I also want to add that the current dhsmasq impelentation as it is works for ipv6 | 14:16 |
| baoli | what is missing is the RA + SLAAC. | 14:17 |
| sc68cal | We've encountered a number of bugs with the current code as it stands - I'm not sure what you mean by the current impl as it is works for ipv6 | 14:17 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, the latest code from upstream. | 14:18 |
| sc68cal | ok - can you please start a thread on the ML with more details | 14:18 |
| baoli | sc68cal, I apologize for reintroducing the one attribute at this point of the game. But I'm hoping it's for good reasons. | 14:18 |
| baoli | sc68cal, you mean starting a thread on the one attribute versus two attributs? | 14:19 |
| sc68cal | I was thinking details for what you mean by the current dnsmasq implementation as it is works for ipv6 | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | if you want to start a thread on 1 attribute vs 2 - feel free to as well | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | but we're basically 1 week away from J-1 | 14:20 |
| baoli | sc68cal, do you want the thread to cover how it works now? | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | We can continue to debate changing API attributes or we can start working on getting dnsmasq working properly | 14:21 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, by making it work properly, you mean the DHCP part or the RA part? | 14:22 |
| sc68cal | Most likely both | 14:22 |
| sc68cal | and fixing an existing issue where a bad host file with v6 addresses causes dnsmasq to crash, and stop issuing ipv4 leases | 14:22 |
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| baoli | what is the bug number for that? | 14:23 |
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| sc68cal | #1257446 | 14:25 |
| sc68cal | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1257446 | 14:25 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1257446 in neutron "Creating a dual-stacked network causes dhcp for both stacks to fail" [Medium,Triaged] | 14:25 |
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| sc68cal | are there any other code reviews anyone would like to discuss? | 14:26 |
| baoli | I'm now running a dual stack testbed, and it seems to be working fine now | 14:27 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: then can you share the details of your configuration | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | how you created the network and subnet in the api | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | etc.. | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | on the mailing list | 14:29 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, sure | 14:29 |
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| sc68cal | Any other code reviews, or shall we continue on to bugs | 14:30 |
| baoli | the devstack change | 14:30 |
| sc68cal | link? | 14:31 |
| baoli | I am going to follow sean dague's recommendation to submit patch for the mgmt net. | 14:31 |
| baoli | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87987/ | 14:31 |
| sc68cal | perfect | 14:32 |
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| sc68cal | #topic bugs | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:34 | |
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| sc68cal | baoli: have you written up a bug report for the floating ip issue we discussed last week | 14:35 |
| baoli | yes, I did | 14:35 |
| baoli | let me find the link | 14:35 |
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| baoli | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1323766 | 14:36 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1323766 in neutron "Incorrect Floating IP behavior in dual stack or ipv6 only network" [Undecided,New] | 14:36 |
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| sc68cal | perfect, I have added that to the main meeting agenda to discuss next monday | 14:38 |
| baoli | sc68cal, thanks | 14:38 |
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| sc68cal | markmcclain said that it might be just that the order is determined by the ordering in the database layer | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | for whatever the query they build | 14:38 |
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| sc68cal | any other bugs to discuss? | 14:39 |
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| lancet | “I dare anyone on the fucking planet to tell me that their job is better than mine,” Tasha said to herself as straddled the big cock and slowly lowered herself down onto it. The immense head took some work to get inside but once in, she was able to steadily pull more and more inside of her. Her vaginal walls were stretched to the max and she relished the intense friction. With one hand, she adjusted her grip on th | 14:40 |
| lancet | ... sofa cushions to adjust the way she was crouched over him. With the other hand, she shoved her huge nipple into Lance’s mouth. She pushed down harder on his cock and barked at him to “suck the shit outta that tit!” Lance’s mouth was like a vacuum, sucking her nipple hard and fast. Tasha’s pussy quivered as it produced more and more of its slick, thick lube. Lance grabbed as much of her thick, fleshy ass | 14:40 |
| lancet | ... simultaneously thrust upward. | 14:40 |
| lancet | Tasha felt immensely and overwhelmingly full and looked down to see just how much more was left. “Damn!,” she screamed. There’s still a good half-foot left to go!” Lance grinned around the turgid nipple he continued sucking on and squeezed Tasha’s ass cheeks harder. Soon they established a rhythm and Tasha bounced and gyrated on the long pole. “Ohhhhhhh that’s some good dick,” Tasha groaned as she ther | 14:40 |
| lancet | ... an effort to get more and more of him inside of her. Her big heavy tits smacked and whacked Lance’s face relentlessly and Lance took pleasure in each slap, slobbering and licking all over the huge chocolate orbs. | 14:40 |
| lancet | The room was filled with the sounds of slurping, grunting, groaning, moaning and flesh slapping against flesh as the two engaged in the age-old tug of war. Lance ran his mouth from one tit to the other and the two would engage in a lust filled tongue battle. Tasha tried her best to drive more and more of the big dong inside of her, her stretched cunt gripped that fat penis tightly. Her hole leaked continually and mixe | 14:40 |
| lancet | ... precum, their juices ran everywhere and filled the room with their raw, musky, pungent odor. After several minutes of pile driving on his cock, Tasha finally stood up straight and dislodged the fat dong from her pussy. She got down off the sofa and stumbled over to a large padded examination chair, her legs none too weak from the crouching position she’d been in and the way Lance had so throughly fucked her. She | 14:41 |
| *** haomaiwang has quit IRC | 14:41 | |
| lancet | ... back spread her gaping pussy wide. “C’mon over here and stick that fat bastard in this hot pussy,” she hissed. | 14:41 |
| lancet | Lance stood up and stumbled a bit himself, not only from exhaustion but from the weight of his enormous phallus. He looked down at the raging monster and marveled at his own staying power. He balls flopped loudly against his thighs as he made his way over to Tasha and thick drops of precut streamed from his cock head like a dropping faucet, leaving a trail on the floor. Tasha reached out and grabbed the shaft and guid | 14:41 |
| lancet | ... hands against the stirrups and pushed his hips forward, sliding the huge mushroom head between her thick, puffy lips. Tasha gasped and let out a long, low moan as Lance pushed his long cock inside of her. 6, 7, 8 inches he pushed in on one long slow stroke before pulling a couple of inches out and sinking more of the thick root inside of her. Tasha arched her back as best she could and adjusted her legs in the sti | 14:41 |
| *** kashyapk has quit IRC | 14:41 | |
| lancet | ... hot throbbing dong as she could. Lance looked down and watched as he sank over a foot of his cock inside of her. | 14:41 |
| lancet | Todd still had several inches left to go but decided to start his stokes at that point. He pulled nearly half of what he had inside of her out before plunging it all back inside. Being able to take such long strokes played havoc on both Tasha’s fat clit with the prolonged one-way stimulation. Her pussy quivered and spasmed as she bucked in orgasm. Lance watched as stretched lips convulsed and shimmied, spewing her c | 14:41 |
| haleyb | anyone an op here to kick ^^ | 14:41 |
| lancet | ... crevices. | 14:41 |
| lancet | “Fuck!” Lance shouted as he pumped his cock in and out of Tasha’s slit. He’d always gotten off on the contrast of his skin with his wife and now to have it go the other way wight he darker skinned woman was a huge turn-on. His massive ball sac slapped Tasha’s ass hard on each stroke, sending jolts of electrical excitement coursing through his groin. Tasha was amazed at such a steady pace he’d set, as if he | 14:41 |
| lancet | ... time. After 5 minutes of solid, non-stop fucking and several hard, gushing orgasms, Tasha needed to switch positions. She pulled her feet from the stirrups and carefully placed her feet in his chest, digging her heels into Lance’s pecs. Lance didn’t read the move as an effort for her to get up and found the sting of the heels grinding into his flesh an immense turn on. He grabbed her ankles and pushed her feet | 14:41 |
| lancet | “Ohhhhhhhh you big fuckin bastard!” Tasha shouted, the shift of her legs creating an even tighter canal for Lance’s pistoning cock. “Shit! Shit! Shit!” she shouted as she could feel her juices streaming down the crack of her ass from the juices now pouring from her throbbing pussy. She had to get Lance away from her so she summoned as much strength as she could and pushed her legs out, forcing his cock to po | 14:41 |
| lancet | The force of the exit caused her to release more of her hot juice and her pussy literally gushed and spewed its juices onto the carpet. Lance stumbled back and caught his breath. His cock angrily bobbed up and down, clearly angry that it had been so forcefully extracted from the sweet, warm confines of Tasha’s box. Tasha slumped awkwardly in the chair, her massive tits swayed form side to side as her big chest heave | 14:41 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jeblair | 14:41 | |
| lancet | ... stand. “You are a fucking machine, you know that?” Tasha said between gasps. Lance responded by stroking his cock with one hand while grabbing a handful of his testicles in the other. “Hey - I’m just getting started,” he sneered as he stepped towards her. Tasha held up her hand. “Believe me, we are certainly going to finish what we started, but right now I need you in a milker. I think you’re good an | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | haleyb: +1 | 14:42 |
| lancet | Joan stood in front of the machine and looked in awe. While it was similar to the one at the other office, this one seemed to be so much more complex. It has dozens of words and cables coming from it, all neatly corded together and ran the full length of the ceiling out in all directions to large servers along the far wall. Huge monitors with graphs and charts and gauges all monitored the system and looked like someth | 14:42 |
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| lancet | A short woman with bleach blonde hair and sparkling blue eyes stepped out from behind one of the large vents of the machine and sauntered over to Joan. Other than the striking features of her hair and eyes, the other most obvious and notable thing about the woman was the size of her breasts. To Joan’s amazement, she wasn’t inflated to gigantic proportions like all of the other women she’d seen that were associat | 14:42 |
| lancet | ... naturally huge tits, she was still on par, and even bigger, than some of the other women Joan had seen. But not this woman, and it truly threw Joan for a loop. | 14:42 |
| lancet | “My name is Dr. Rebecca Parsons. I will be your facilitator for your enhancement. Please undress and step into the chamber,” the woman said in a staccato, kurt tone. Joan cast a weary eye at Chelsea and Chelsea gave her a soothing smile. “She acts like a bulldog, but she’s actually a real pussy cat,” Chelsea said, leaning over and whispering to Joan. “And the pussy is pretty good, too,” she aded with a w | 14:42 |
| lancet | ... took off her shoes, shorts and shirt. Just as she was about to step into the chamber, Parsons barked at her. “All of you clothing, please. The chamber will not provide proper readings unless you are completely unclothed.” Joan stepped out of her panties and reached around and unsnapped her bra. Her big boobs spilled out and she sighed lightly at the feeling of them being freed from their confines. She stepped | 14:42 |
| *** lancet was kicked by jeblair (lancet) | 14:42 | |
| haleyb | thanks jeblair | 14:42 |
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| sc68cal | Well.... | 14:43 |
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| sc68cal | So uh, any more bugs to discuss? | 14:44 |
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| sc68cal | #topic open discussion | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:45 | |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, were you able to talk to Shi Xiong to start to get those review comments addressed? | 14:47 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: I sent an e-mail to him yesterday to see if he had time to talk | 14:48 |
| sc68cal | I have not heard a response back | 14:48 |
| xuhanp | good to hear that. Thanks | 14:48 |
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| sc68cal | if you have a chunk of that patch that you want to take and work on, please do | 14:48 |
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| sc68cal | worst case you can give him attribution in the commit message | 14:49 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, just want to make sure we split that smartly so it can be reviewed well. | 14:50 |
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| xuhanp | may need some overall plan to do that. | 14:50 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: agree. I just realized that the patch is abandoned | 14:51 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, yeah. it gets -1 for a while. | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | so I don't think we have much we can do to that specific review until we get a hold of Shixiong and have him restore it | 14:51 |
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| xuhanp | ok | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | at this point I think we just need to tear the band-aid off and take parts of that commit and rework and submit new reviews | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: so if you have a piece you want to work on, go ahead. Just make sure to also submit a BP to neutron-specs | 14:52 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, OK. will do. | 14:52 |
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| sc68cal | OK - if there is nothing else I think we'll bring this meeting to a close | 14:57 |
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| sc68cal | I'm in the -neutron IRC channel as usual | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | take care everyone! | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 14:58:40 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-03-14.00.html | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-03-14.00.txt | 14:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-03-14.00.log.html | 14:58 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 15:00:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:00 |
| mspreitz | o/ | 15:00 |
| n0ano | anyone here want to talk abou the scheduler? | 15:00 |
| toan-tran | \o/ | 15:00 |
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| * n0ano wonders how many was you can combine / and \ | 15:01 | |
| bauzas | I'm left-handed :) | 15:01 |
| n0ano | bauzas, you & my wife :-) | 15:01 |
| bauzas | so \o is better than o/ | 15:01 |
| * mspreitz /*\ | 15:01 | |
| * mspreitz /o\ | 15:01 | |
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| n0ano | well, why don't we get started (all the important people are here) | 15:02 |
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| * johnthetubaguy is lurking, but on a call | 15:02 | |
| n0ano | #topic forklift | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "forklift (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:02 | |
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| n0ano | mainly status I think, anything to report bauzas ? | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | sorry, was mailing | 15:03 |
| bauzas | so, yes, big status | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | progress so far on implementing the sched-lib | 15:04 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/82778 | 15:04 |
| bauzas | (that's eating most of my nights now, as juno-1 is next week) | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | I'm about delivering a new patchset (hoping to land by tomorrow) taking in account all comments | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | I spent most of my time this week on 2 big concerns | 15:05 |
| bauzas | #1 : we're not using objects in RT, so I had to trick some things for using objects with sched-lib | 15:06 |
| bauzas | that requires some refactoring effort on that patch | 15:06 |
| mspreitz | "RT" ? | 15:06 |
| bauzas | #2 : I raised the concern that IMHO, logic should stay in the Sched-manager | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz: RT : ResourceTracker, my bad | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | about #2, a dependent patch has been landed by yesterday | 15:07 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/97232 | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | your comments are welcome on that patch | 15:08 |
| n0ano | #action everyone to review https://review.openstack.org/97232 | 15:08 |
| bauzas | it will be updated tomorrow with the updates from https://review.openstack.org/82778 (they are dependent) | 15:08 |
| bauzas | well the most important thing is architectural | 15:08 |
| bauzas | I mean, I ported the logic to the sched manager | 15:09 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: on https://review.openstack.org/82778, client.py line 55 | 15:09 |
| bauzas | but with that 97232 patch, that means that now compute nodes are now sending updates to scheduler | 15:09 |
| toan-tran | I put a comment there | 15:09 |
| toan-tran | could you take a quick look please? | 15:09 |
| toan-tran | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82778/13/nova/scheduler/client.py, line 55 | 15:09 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, in re updates to sched - this is in addition to the compute nodes updating the DB? | 15:10 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: yay, saw your comment | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: I'm sorry, but no this is service_name | 15:10 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: you're getting a service with possibly multiple nodes | 15:10 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: but wait my new patchset, the logic will be rewritten so that it will be clearer to read | 15:11 |
| bauzas | n0ano: not exactly | 15:11 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: thanks, it's rather confusing the variables' name | 15:11 |
| toan-tran | and please if you can add some description on compute_nodes' structure, that would be greate | 15:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: the problem is that computes are using conductor to update DB for compute_nodes | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: even if we externalize the call to the conductor into a separate library, that still means that computes literally update compute_nodes | 15:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: it should only place a call to an API to the sched | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so the sched would update its own DB | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: but that means now that all RT updates will go thru sched | 15:13 |
| mspreitz | I thought no-db-scheduler was in the future | 15:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's a possible bottleneck | 15:13 |
| n0ano | which is the way compute nodes used to work (the more things change the more they stay the same) | 15:14 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: that's not related to no-db work | 15:14 |
| mspreitz | but it sounds like it..? | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | no-db work is about having a no-db backend for scheduler | 15:14 |
| bauzas | but the blueprint is confusing | 15:14 |
| bauzas | on my side, I'm not changing how we store things | 15:15 |
| n0ano | mspreitz, I think the point is compute sends update to the sched, where sched stores that info is upto the sched, db for now, memory when no-db is in | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | I'm just making sure that only sched holds the compute_nodes table | 15:15 |
| bauzas | n0ano: +1 | 15:15 |
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| canaima172423 | yo no hablo ingles | 15:16 |
| bauzas | anyway, if we consider Gantt, this is a long-term feature | 15:16 |
| canaima172423 | guah | 15:16 |
| bauzas | as RT will need to call Gantt for updating its state | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | so anyway, RT will place an external call | 15:17 |
| bauzas | the problem is that it requires Gantt (or the sched now) to be robust enough | 15:17 |
| n0ano | I agree, I think compute status updates should go to the sched and then let sched decide the best way to store the info so this is good. | 15:17 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: this is rather heavy for Gantt | 15:18 |
| bauzas | so, to sum up the most important work is on https://review.openstack.org/82778 | 15:18 |
| toan-tran | should we have some synchronizer to handle DB ? like no-db | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | and reviews are welcome on https://review.openstack.org/97232 and https://review.openstack.org/89893 | 15:18 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, maybe but I've just created a BP ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/on-demand-compute-update ) to change the way we send updates... | 15:18 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's a good thing | 15:19 |
| n0ano | change from periodic to on demand, I thought someone was already working on this but I guess not so I'll start it | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | mmm, that was about no-db discussion | 15:19 |
| bauzas | IIRC | 15:19 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: +1 | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: ping us the nova-spec draft once you're done with | 15:20 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so I'll be able to review it | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | status updates are orthogonal to no-db, I think the no-db spec got a little overly complex | 15:20 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: could you do some analysis on performance ? comparison with current method | 15:20 |
| n0ano | bauzas, sure, the BP is there, I have to do the details for the git repo | 15:20 |
| toan-tran | some graph would be nice :) | 15:20 |
| canaima172423 | hello how are;-) | 15:21 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I subscribed to the BP, so I'll get the patch link | 15:21 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, hard for me, I have like a max of a 3 node system :-( I'm not a bluehost | 15:21 |
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| toan-tran | n0ano: well, we don't need a real system for that | 15:21 |
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| toan-tran | ok maybe I will make some Matlab graph so see | 15:22 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: your ideas are welcome | 15:22 |
| canaima172423 | estup | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | canaima172423: we're in the middle of a meeting, please join #openstack-101 if you want to talk about Openstack | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | toan-tran, any suggestions on how to get some scaling date from a small system would be welcom | 15:23 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I tried to talk to him on a private dialog but he seems to be ignoring me | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | I just remind you all that juno-1 is next week | 15:23 |
| mspreitz | And we're having a Nova bug day today? | 15:24 |
| bauzas | so, if you want to vote on having sched-lib to be merged by juno-1, please put some reviews :) | 15:24 |
| n0ano | bauzas, anyway, sounds like you have the forklift well in had (baring some reviews) any other help you need? | 15:24 |
| n0ano | s/had/hand | 15:24 |
| bauzas | n0ano: as said last week, I'll probably require some help for implementing https://review.openstack.org/89893 | 15:24 |
| bauzas | it's targeted for juno-3 | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | btw, I'll travelling next week | 15:25 |
| bauzas | s/be | 15:25 |
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| n0ano | I have some colleges (sp?) in China, let me see if I can get someone to work on that | 15:26 |
| bauzas | so I won't be able to attend the meeting (: | 15:26 |
| bauzas | :( | 15:26 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, NP but if you can send me a quick email update before hand that would be good | 15:26 |
| bauzas | and Monday is bank holiday in France | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: will do - don't hesitate to ping me by email ;) | 15:26 |
| n0ano | so, we don't work for a bank :-) | 15:26 |
| * n0ano favorite holiday is Tomb Cleaning Day in China :-) | 15:27 | |
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| bauzas | well, I don't know the word, I would say 'legal' holiday then :) | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | anyway, I'm done | 15:27 |
| n0ano | bauzas, no, your were correct, I was just making a pun | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | any other questions about the forklift? | 15:28 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: well, depending on company, mine still works :) | 15:28 |
| n0ano | bauzas, tnx, good work | 15:28 |
| bauzas | n0ano: :D | 15:28 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to get someone to work on https://review.openstack.org/89893 | 15:28 |
| n0ano | moving on | 15:28 |
| n0ano | #topic no-db scheduler | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "no-db scheduler (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:28 | |
| bauzas | toan-tran: don't leave me explain Pentecost Day in France and its paperwork-related stuff :) | 15:28 |
| n0ano | YorikSar, you there | 15:28 |
| YorikSar | Yea, hi | 15:29 |
| YorikSar | I've seen a lot of comments to my spec | 15:29 |
| bauzas | hi YorikSar :) | 15:29 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: indeed :) | 15:29 |
| n0ano | indeed, we finally got moving on that | 15:29 |
| YorikSar | Although I never found time to answer or address them. | 15:29 |
| YorikSar | I guess I'll be working on that this week. | 15:30 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: cool let us know | 15:30 |
| YorikSar | You all will know in Gerrit's emails ;) | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | ;) | 15:30 |
| mspreitz | BTW, for the rest of us who do not know Kafka, is there a short sharp summary of what it is and why the advocate thinks it is relevant? | 15:30 |
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| YorikSar | (in? from? through?) | 15:30 |
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| toan-tran | YorikSar: in john garbutt's comment | 15:31 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: I'm sorry, maybe johnthetubaguy can comment it ? | 15:31 |
| YorikSar | mspreitz: I honestly didn't understand how it could fit in our scheme. | 15:31 |
| toan-tran | http://kafka.apache.org/ | 15:31 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: I haven't said the word tooz :) | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | just seemed a lot like the mem cache queue of updates, but already implemented | 15:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | the feed back in the summt was it sounds like we are re-inventing a DB | 15:32 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: there is also https://github.com/stackforge/tooz | 15:33 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, +1 (that's what I heard at the summit also) | 15:33 |
| bauzas | +2 | 15:33 |
| YorikSar | johnthetubaguy: That's very unfortunate outcoe. I wish I could be there to avoid such confusion. | 15:33 |
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| mspreitz | OK, I'll agree on the question of Kafka. The proposed design is about getting updates to schedulers, it seems to be working around some presumed problem with fanout | 15:34 |
| n0ano | YorikSar, maybe a focused email to the dev list to address this issue from you would be good | 15:34 |
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| YorikSar | bauzas: tooz seems to be not about delivering data from tons of servers to some number of recepients. | 15:34 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: indeed, it's only about election, you're right | 15:35 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: I was thinking about it for the scheduler | 15:35 |
| mspreitz | I mean, "why not Kafka" is a good question | 15:35 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: but my mind slipped a little bity | 15:35 |
| mspreitz | I wouldn't mind background on why oslo's fanout is not good enough | 15:35 |
| YorikSar | I'll take a closer look at Kafka, yes. But I feel like it won't be good for our case. | 15:35 |
| bauzas | well, the problem is about the spec with regards to the timeline | 15:36 |
| YorikSar | Synchronizer provides not only better delivery pace but also some semi-persistence for "subscribers" that just came online or were sleeping too long. | 15:36 |
| bauzas | I mean, that's a big change, and we're only having 2 months for juno | 15:36 |
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| YorikSar | bauzas: That's not a big change... | 15:37 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: well, you introduce many concepts here :) | 15:37 |
| n0ano | bauzas, if the backend is selectable between the current DB and the new scheme then the change isn't that disruptive | 15:37 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: and some of them are disruptive, see my comments in the spec :) | 15:37 |
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| * YorikSar wishes to hide this work behind some other name so that everybody would forget what've been said about it during the whole year of dreaming the desing... | 15:38 | |
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| n0ano | YorikSar, name change probably not an option but I understand you :-) | 15:38 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: well, the problem is that the spec is not that clear, I'm sorry :( | 15:39 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: I mean, it seems some points are overlapping other developments | 15:39 |
| YorikSar | I think I'll try to convince people in spec first. And then I'll probably start some ML topic so that community could follow current state of things with this bp | 15:40 |
| mspreitz | What is wrong with oslo's fanout messaging, and why would the proposed backend do the job better? | 15:40 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: and you're proposing to rewrite the whole SQLA backend | 15:40 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: IIRC, fanout has been banned a long time ago | 15:40 |
| mspreitz | bauzas: why? | 15:40 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: lemme find the thread :) | 15:41 |
| mspreitz | (not an idle question, we need to know we are not re-producing the same problems) | 15:41 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Well... It's a backend, right? This work just replaces a piece of wiring from compute nodes to the scheduler itself. | 15:41 |
| n0ano | we discussed fan out a long time agao but I don't think there was a definitive result, there are still proponents & opponents of it | 15:41 |
| YorikSar | mspreitz: Imagine this. Currently we have 1 message for every node every 1 min. With fanout that numbet will get multiplied by the number of schedulers/ | 15:42 |
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| YorikSar | mspreitz: AFAIC that had been placing too much load to MQ. | 15:42 |
| mspreitz | YorikSar: the proposed design does as much messaging in total | 15:43 |
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| mspreitz | and with several schedulers, the backend is sending most of it | 15:43 |
| n0ano | YorikSar, note my new BP ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/on-demand-compute-update ), change the 1 min update to on demand and a lot of that load goes away | 15:43 |
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| YorikSar | mspreitz: This desing keeps numeber of messages the same (unless you plug compute nodes directly to synchronizer). | 15:44 |
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| mspreitz | what is same as what | 15:44 |
| mspreitz | ? | 15:44 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: there we go : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/no-compute-fanout-to-scheduler | 15:44 |
| YorikSar | 1 message per node per minute | 15:44 |
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| mspreitz | Both new design and oslo fanout send O((num schedulers) * (compute node update rate)) messages from backend / through message broker | 15:45 |
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| YorikSar | n0ano: I thought the source of node state is not that static. E.g. you can add some RAM to compute node and it'll show up on periodic update. | 15:45 |
| mspreitz | s/messages/message content/ | 15:45 |
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| n0ano | YorikSar, you're talking about hot add of mem - that's just another (unlikely) event that causes an update | 15:46 |
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| bauzas | anyway, I don't think the main discussion about no-db is here :) | 15:46 |
| YorikSar | mspreitz: No... Schedulers retrieve new records from backend in packs while compute nodes push them there with the same pace. | 15:46 |
| mspreitz | that's why I s/messages/message content/ | 15:47 |
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| mspreitz | How big is a compute node update? n0ano's question is relevant here | 15:48 |
| YorikSar | n0ano: Ok, I remember I had an example of change that was triggered independently from nova-compute but I don't remember what it was. | 15:48 |
| bauzas | I'm just having pdb running | 15:48 |
| bauzas | don't ask me to calculate the len | 15:48 |
| n0ano | mspreitz, last I saw the log message it was about 20 lines of 80 characters | 15:48 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:48 |
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| bauzas | 1226 chars | 15:49 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:49 |
| bauzas | well, that depends of course | 15:49 |
| n0ano | bauzas, pretty close to my 1600 estimate and yes, it varies a little, but not that much | 15:50 |
| bauzas | cpu_info is the most greedy | 15:50 |
| bauzas | and the bad is that it's very static | 15:50 |
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| bauzas | you don't change CPUs every day | 15:50 |
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| * toan-tran wonders how close is 1600 to 1226 | 15:51 | |
| n0ano | bauzas, and the most static, we could change the update into two type (static/dynamic) if the size is a big problem. | 15:51 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Depends on your hobby :) | 15:51 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: :) | 15:51 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, within 1 order of magnitude, WFM :-) | 15:51 |
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| toan-tran | n0ano: now I understand when you said "we don't work for the bank" :) | 15:52 |
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| n0ano | toan-tran, touche :-) | 15:52 |
| bauzas | guys, I know that hyper-v people cancelled the next meeting, but is it reasonable to chat about it while we're only havnig 8 mnis left ? :D | 15:52 |
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| YorikSar | I guess we can finish no-db topic here. We'll continue the discussion in the spec draft. | 15:53 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I get fried after 60 min. anyway, I'd prefer to have YorikSar update his spec and send out the emails and then discuss later | 15:53 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: strong approval here | 15:53 |
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| n0ano | #action YorikSar to update the spec and start email thread on the dev list | 15:54 |
| bauzas | but that RPC payload discussion is really passionating | 15:54 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, I don't mind, strong opinions are good as long as no one gets intimidated | 15:54 |
| n0ano | let's move on | 15:55 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:55 | |
| n0ano | anyone have anything new to raise today? | 15:55 |
| bauzas | yey, I mean I would love to discuss about it still | 15:55 |
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| bauzas | 5 mins left :) | 15:55 |
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| toan-tran | well, I intended to talk about my new patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/61386/ | 15:55 |
| bauzas | just a reminder, won't be avaiable from mon to thurs next week | 15:56 |
| toan-tran | but I don't think we have time left, so maybe next time :) | 15:56 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: I briefly readed your spec | 15:56 |
| toan-tran | it's on my demo at Atlanta | 15:56 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, sure, I'll queue it up for next week (doesn't look like it's getting much love so far) | 15:56 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: very interesting, but I think we need to define a clear path for this | 15:56 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:57 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: and I would love to help you contributing on this | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | in fact I submitted it some months ago | 15:57 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to add https://review.openstack.org/#/c/61386/ to agenda for next week | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | and after Atlanta I got really good talk with Jay Lau | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | his Tetris is what I need for complete my schema | 15:58 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: yey, I think that Jay and I are sharing same views | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | :) | 15:58 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: but that's a big baby | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: here is my presentation: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B598PxJUvPrwcWZlaUlaOW11enM/edit? | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | page 20 is my vision on the whole scheduling | 15:58 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: even bigger than Gantt IMHO :) | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | and Tetris fits right in Service Manager | 15:58 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: based on last Summit, I fear that it will be too big for Nova | 15:59 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: but that's a good fit for Gantt | 15:59 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: yeah, we expect Gantt will be part of it :D | 16:00 |
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| toan-tran | so that will be Gantt + Tetris + Congress | 16:00 |
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| bauzas | I was thinking that GTC was related to fast cars :) | 16:00 |
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| toan-tran | but the first step is small & simple, to make an policy-based engine that can fit in nova-scheduler or gantt | 16:00 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: +) | 16:01 |
| n0ano | top of the hour guys, tnx, good discussion, we'll talk on email and be here next week. | 16:01 |
| bauzas | :) | 16:01 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 16:01:19 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-03-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-03-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-03-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
| toan-tran | thanks :) | 16:01 |
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| bauzas | thanks n0ano :) | 16:01 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov hughsaunders marcoemorais harlowja hi guys meeting time | 16:59 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting rally | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 17:00:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:00 |
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| boris-42 | #topic rally info command & docs | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rally info command & docs (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:00 | |
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| hughsaunders | hey boris-42 | 17:00 |
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| marcoemorais1 | boris-42: have to miss today's meeting ;( be back in abt 45m-60m | 17:01 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov could you share with your updates | 17:02 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 Hi | 17:03 |
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| msdubov | So first there is a new doc that describes main concepts used in Rally in more detail | 17:04 |
| msdubov | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Concepts | 17:04 |
| msdubov | I hope this will be of great use for new developers in Rally | 17:04 |
| msdubov | It describes what are benchmark scenarios, contexts and scenario runners | 17:04 |
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| msdubov | How they function and how they can be extended | 17:04 |
| msdubov | (The doc itself will be extended as well) | 17:05 |
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| msdubov | As for the "rally info" command... | 17:05 |
| aswadrangnekar | Hi all | 17:05 |
| msdubov | I've updated the corresponding doc: https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1m4HqrbWOfcvi-LKjehJZTeYX1p-TzXeUvfIHhyU9nOI/edit#heading=h.zh97w9nib534 | 17:05 |
| msdubov | One of new suggestions there (that I'd like to discuss) is in section 5, point 3 | 17:06 |
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| msdubov | namely the new ":sample:" clause in the docstrings | 17:06 |
| msdubov | that would allow us to implement the --sample-config parameter in rally info | 17:07 |
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| eyerediskin | what about readthedocs? all docs about to be moved there? | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin I think we should still have wiki | 17:10 |
| eyerediskin | wiki+readthedocs yes | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin but docs are terrible out of date | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin and not so readable, we will need to refactor them | 17:11 |
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| msdubov | eyerediskin, I'm going to format the "Concepts" doc in rst | 17:11 |
| msdubov | So that it will replace the outdated docs in readthedocs | 17:12 |
| eyerediskin | boris-42: ok. so we gonna have docs by url like "http://rally.rtfd.org/" instead of "http://docs.google.com/mirantis/blabla/blablabla/I(*F&(SFD*&)SD(F*&SD)(*&SD)(F*&SDF(*S&DF" | 17:12 |
| msdubov | eyerediskin, I believe my wiki page fits the readthedocs format (especially when I split it into 3 parts)? | 17:12 |
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| msdubov | eyerediskin, I mean it has overall descriptions + code snippets | 17:13 |
| msdubov | eyerediskin, And seems to be not very long to read | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin hmm | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin docs are used for discussion | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin not as a docs or tutorials | 17:13 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42: same docs could be used for both? | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | hughsaunders for what?) | 17:14 |
| hughsaunders | discussion and learning | 17:14 |
| tnurlygayanov__ | hi | 17:15 |
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| eyerediskin | discissions at docs.google, then copypasted to wiki, then manually translated into rst->readthedocs? | 17:15 |
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| hughsaunders | Oh I see, collaboration... yes makes sense to collaborate on goole docs then publish somewhere else | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders but I think that learning should be in docs and wiki | 17:16 |
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| msdubov | Guys sorry have to leave now | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ hi there | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | msdubov see u later | 17:16 |
| hughsaunders | boris-42: yeah, I understand now, wasnt clear before | 17:16 |
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| eyerediskin | we can collaborate on review.openstack, commenting CR's in docs/source/ like any other CR's | 17:17 |
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| eyerediskin | boris-42 hughsaunders ^ | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin yep probably we can | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin when it's related to the docs and not related to the new functionallity | 17:18 |
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| hughsaunders | eyerediskin: yeah another good option, like other projects are doing for specs | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | okay I think we can move to the next topic | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | #topic ceilometer benchmarks updates | 17:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ceilometer benchmarks updates (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:20 | |
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| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar could you share with your plans | 17:20 |
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| aswadrangnekar | hi | 17:20 |
| aswadrangnekar | we are on the last queries patch, waiting for merge | 17:21 |
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| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar do you have other plans for new benchmarks that are not yet on review? | 17:21 |
| aswadrangnekar | apart from that there are few modification and tweks been submited (2 patches) | 17:21 |
| aswadrangnekar | yes | 17:22 |
| aswadrangnekar | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93669/ | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar but it's already on review=) | 17:22 |
| aswadrangnekar | ok sorry i dint know that | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar I mean do you have plans to make new benchmarks (that are not published yet) | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar I am going to review that one soon | 17:23 |
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| aswadrangnekar | as of now no | 17:23 |
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| aswadrangnekar | we will be testing this scenarios on different databases for ceilometer and then might be we come up with more scenarios | 17:24 |
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| aswadrangnekar | but its going to take some time to test it | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar btw we are going to have special directory | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar called users stories | 17:24 |
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| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95144/ | 17:25 |
| aswadrangnekar | we can add it, but can conform in next meet | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar yep it will be nice | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's move to next topics | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | #topic gates | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gates (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:26 | |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin could you share updates about gates | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin are you here? | 17:29 |
| eyerediskin | so we have several new jobs | 17:29 |
| eyerediskin | rally-cli and rally-dsvm-neutron | 17:30 |
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| eyerediskin | * almost have | 17:30 |
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| eyerediskin | rally-cli https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85738/ | 17:30 |
| eyerediskin | it should work, but I cant check because og infra issues | 17:31 |
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| eyerediskin | and rally-dsvm-neutron https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97469/ | 17:31 |
| eyerediskin | will work after this merged ^^ | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin could you explain for others what is rally-cli | 17:31 |
| eyerediskin | rally-cli is tests written as usual unittests, but is is actually integrated tests | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin so we are going to test all our commands from cli in that stuff? | 17:33 |
| eyerediskin | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85738/2/tests_ci/test_cli.py | 17:33 |
| eyerediskin | see last method "test_create_fromenv... | 17:33 |
| eyerediskin | all other tests may be done like this | 17:33 |
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| eyerediskin | boris-42: thats all | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin and how about rtfm | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin job | 17:35 |
| eyerediskin | oh | 17:36 |
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| eyerediskin | we should merge this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95524/ | 17:36 |
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| eyerediskin | and then we got auto build docs on readthedocs | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin how to check that it works properly? | 17:37 |
| eyerediskin | I tested it on own repo https://github.com/redixin/rally | 17:37 |
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| eyerediskin | it should start build after patch is merged | 17:38 |
| eyerediskin | (docs build) | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin okay so why did you not put +2 ? | 17:38 |
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| eyerediskin | boris-42: I can't +2 own patch ^_^ | 17:39 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin lol http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/A487dNkNVGA/maxresdefault.jpg | 17:40 |
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| tnurlygayanov__ | btw, what about the review for Neutron Networks Context support https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96300 ? | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ gates are broken lol | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ and as well we need to finish work on neutron gate | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ to be able to test it in gates | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ seems like it will be quite soon ready | 17:41 |
| tnurlygayanov__ | ok... if I can help with it I'm ready to participate | 17:41 |
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| tnurlygayanov__ | so, do we have bp or commits on review with fixed for neutron gates? | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ btw why did you write neutron specific context | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ why not using nova api for that stuff? so it will work in both cases? | 17:43 |
| tnurlygayanov__ | because I'm used Neutron in my environment | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ and? | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ via nova api it will work in any case | 17:44 |
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| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ with neutron only when end user is using neutron | 17:44 |
| tnurlygayanov__ | boris-42 we can create routers/networks with Nova API? | 17:44 |
| tnurlygayanov__ | yes | 17:44 |
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| tnurlygayanov__ | so, it is separate context, but it is easy to add/remove to the existing contexts in config | 17:45 |
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| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ ? | 17:45 |
| tnurlygayanov__ | and if we use the Neutron, we can just add this context to the task | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ why not just having one context | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ that will create networks via nova api | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ that can be used in any case when we need it | 17:46 |
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| tnurlygayanov__ | hm... I will investigate how we can do the same with Nova API | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov__ cause if it is possible to do via Nova API its more common apporach | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | and we should use it | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | #topic unification of names | 17:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "unification of names (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:47 | |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders ping could you share news about this stuff? | 17:48 |
| tnurlygayanov__ | boris-42, yes, but I'm not sure that it is possible to manage Neutron routers/networks via Nova API. I will check and update patch set. | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | hughsaunders here? | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's cover other topic | 17:51 |
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| boris-42 | #topic complex types as args in sceanrios | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "complex types as args in sceanrios (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:51 | |
| boris-42 | So today we merged quite big patch | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | That adds support of type of args | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | so we are able to specify not only image_id: uuid | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | but something like image: {uuid: xxx} or image: {name: xxx} or image: {regex: regxxx} | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | as well for flavors | 17:53 |
| eyerediskin | is there samples in doc/samples? | 17:53 |
| hughsaunders | hey, unifiying names is wip, I hope yo get it done soon | 17:53 |
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| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86116/ eyerediskin this is patch | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin here is the sample https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/doc/samples/tasks/nova/boot-and-delete.json#L3-L11 | 17:54 |
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| boris-42 | so I think it is nice improvment | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | #topic Next stuff to do | 17:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next stuff to do (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:54 | |
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| boris-42 | Okay there are couple of things that we are working now | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | 1) support of pre created users context | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | 2) support of success conditions in tasks | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | 3) persisntace context | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | 4) unification of naming stuff | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | When we finish all this stuff we will bring rally to the next level=) | 17:56 |
| hughsaunders | :) | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | as well I have thoughts about how to add support of running different methods | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | at the same time | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | I think I will write some documents | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | about it | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | #topic free discussion | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "free discussion (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:57 | |
| boris-42 | if somebody has any questions | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | it's right time | 17:57 |
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| boris-42 | okay we should end meeting=) | 17:59 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 17:59:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-03-17.00.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-03-17.00.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-03-17.00.log.html | 17:59 |
| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| bknudson | dolphm: hi | 18:00 |
| marekd | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | hey | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | yeeha | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
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| gyee_ | \o | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: yeehaw? | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | oh sorry o\ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | I'm here | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | yeehaaaaaaawwww (british accent) | 18:00 |
| ayoung | Yeee Har | 18:00 |
| ayoung | If it ends with an A sound, put an R on it | 18:00 |
| henrynash | is in baaaaaath | 18:01 |
| ayoung | so Florider is nawth of Cuber | 18:01 |
| dolphm | i'm not sure what this meeting is about anymore | 18:01 |
| ayoung | Sorry, that is New English | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | dolphm wishes this was more unusual, but it aint | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i think we turned left at Albuquerque | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 18:02:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #topic keystone-specs | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystone-specs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| dolphm | #info Add openstack/keystone-specs to your Watched Projects in gerrit, and start reviewing! | 18:02 |
| topol | o/ | 18:02 |
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| morganfainberg | Please review! Lets get specs approved! | 18:02 |
| bknudson | so I think we're getting close to J1 | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | should we be getting things in for J1 rather than looking at specs for j2? | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, June 12 | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #info All featurey/blueprinty/wishlisty changes will require an approved keystone-specs doc after juno-1 ends (June 12) | 18:03 |
| bknudson | I don't know what we want to get into j1 | 18:03 |
| bknudson | probably compressed tokens | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, if things are slated for J1 those are priority *cough* compressed tokens | 18:03 |
| topol | love keystone-specs. love the structure and organization | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | #topic Juno-1 (June 12) | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno-1 (June 12) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| henrynash | topol: ++ | 18:04 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/juno-1 | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, otherwise, it should be focused on specs so once J2 opens we can get moving. | 18:04 |
| henrynash | bknudson: multi-domain uuids | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | our juno-1 target list is fairly short, but compressed tokens is certainly at the top of the list | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | ah, also "Document v2 to v3 API migration strategy" | 18:04 |
| ayoung | compressed tokens and revocation events are the two things left over from Icehouse. But Revocation events are client only | 18:04 |
| dolphm | i'd like to see them be the default in devstack before we check that box as done | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, we need to ensure everyone has updated minimum reqs to 0.9.0 of KSC | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, compressed tokens as default? | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, but it's doable | 18:05 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i consider this to be a first step toward having a migration strategy (mostly the last section) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96242/ | 18:05 |
| ayoung | dolphm, devstack default to compressed tokens? | 18:05 |
| dolphm | stevemar: yes | 18:05 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:05 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes | 18:05 |
| stevemar | dolphm, is there a patch? | 18:05 |
| ayoung | stevemar, Proof of concept only | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | needs to get through unit tests etc | 18:05 |
| stevemar | i mean a devstack patch | 18:05 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91145/ | 18:05 |
| dolphm | stevemar: we don't even expose them in keystone yet^ | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar once it passes out unit tests we can open the devstack review | 18:06 |
| bknudson | the current poc makes compressed tokens the default provider | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, true | 18:06 |
| stevemar | bknudson, thanks | 18:06 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I can remove that. | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, bknudson, i'm fine with that but i think we should make the default switch explicit if we're changing that. | 18:06 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, nah, lets get it in, then make things use it buy default | 18:07 |
| ayoung | by | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | and i think keystone should switch the default, not have a devstack "option" | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, two patches, then? | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ we change not devstack changing. | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | devstack already has an option to set the token provider | 18:07 |
| bknudson | so you can switch to uuid easily | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yeah, make sure it works, and then we work on flipping the switch. | 18:07 |
| topol | morganfainberg I think devstack options are very helpful. Changing devstack config without them is a pain | 18:07 |
| bknudson | KEYSTONE_TOKEN_FORMAT=UUID | 18:08 |
| stevemar | is someone on the devstack team aware of the impending change? | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, in case we need to juggle things around in other projects. we then aren't holding up support of compressed tokens because some project X is balking at it | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, for some reasons | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:08 |
| ayoung | lets get the PKIZ provider merged non-default, then people can test with devstack, and we can have the discussion about what to do after that | 18:08 |
| bknudson | ayoung: works for me. | 18:08 |
| topol | devstack release on its own shcedule. is there really a dependency here? | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i'm sorry i meant in devstack-gate, different thant devstack | 18:08 |
| dolphm | devstack releases? | 18:08 |
| topol | oh, he meant the devstack-gate???\ | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | yeah. | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | morganfainberg: a new d-g job? | 18:09 |
| topol | :-) | 18:09 |
| bknudson | btw, devstack does have stable/ releases, so I think they follow the regular openstack releases | 18:09 |
| bknudson | stable branches | 18:10 |
| dolphm | yeah... it's a branch, not so much a release | 18:10 |
| bknudson | they don't release it, like as a pip download | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, no, just don't want to have to add options to dsg project to support flipping things around like this up front - argue if we need it as part of the matrix stuff after it "works" and we make it default on | 18:10 |
| dolphm | anyway, is there anything else to land in j1? this is the last reasonable chance to get attention on something new | 18:10 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah... | 18:11 |
| ayoung | the sql migratiosn for extensions | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | topol, devstack-gate is the QA project that controls how tempest nodes etc (devstack) nodes are configured in check/gate | 18:11 |
| henrynash | dolphm: I’m tyring to land the multi-domain UUIDs | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: link? | 18:11 |
| bknudson | might be nice to get https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70630/ in | 18:11 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96326/ | 18:11 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: henrynash: target the bp's to j1 | 18:11 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: ahh. oops | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ on the templated catalog v3 | 18:12 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I wrote that as a POC, but there is no BP or anything...it was a response to people complaining about the migrations not being run | 18:12 |
| stevemar | ++ templated | 18:12 |
| ayoung | I guess there is no reason it can't wait til J2 | 18:12 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, lets push that to j2. | 18:12 |
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| morganfainberg | no need to "rush" that. | 18:12 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:12 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, it does have a bug report associate with it, which is how I was addressing it | 18:12 |
| ayoung | I don't know if it calls for a BP, dolphm 's call | 18:13 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:13 |
| dolphm | ayoung: bug is fine for that i think | 18:13 |
| ayoung | dolphm, https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1324260 | 18:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1324260 in keystone "Always migrate the the db for extensions instead of conditionally" [Medium,In progress] | 18:13 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i assumed you were referring to a bp | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i would say it's a bug. it's inconsistent schemas not massive overhaul | 18:13 |
| ayoung | so the general rule I've been going with is "if it is a default extension, it should be migrated by default" | 18:13 |
| ayoung | but we've not had any default extensions that require migrations until fairly recently | 18:13 |
| ayoung | new schemas for new extensions do not get migrated by default. | 18:14 |
| ayoung | Hence the explicit list | 18:14 |
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| bknudson | ec2_extension_v3 s3_extension simple_cert_extension | 18:14 |
| bknudson | are the default extensions | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bknudson, and those don't have migrations | 18:15 |
| bknudson | right | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | from a deployment standpoint, i just want to voice how crappy it is that to "enable" an extension i need to explicitly migrate it | 18:15 |
| ayoung | but now oauth, endpoint_filter are promoted | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | erm explicitly do a DB migration | 18:15 |
| gyee_ | "default extensions" doesn't sound right, if they are enabled by default they are not extensions :) | 18:15 |
| ayoung | gyee_, yes they are | 18:16 |
| ayoung | gyee_, they are not part of the core API | 18:16 |
| ayoung | they are endpoints enabled in keystone by default | 18:16 |
| gyee_ | ayoung, I mean if they are enabled by default, they need to be core | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and hence the whole OpenStack arguemnt on why extensions suck (or not suck) | 18:16 |
| gyee_ | simple as that | 18:16 |
| ayoung | so for Juno | 18:16 |
| ayoung | ['endpoint_filter', 'federation', 'oauth1', 'revoke'] | 18:16 |
| dolphm | bknudson: and trusts is so default it's hardcoded | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dolphm, trusts is not even in contrib | 18:16 |
| bknudson | dolphm: trusts isn't an extension by some definitions | 18:17 |
| ayoung | and it's migrations are part of common repo | 18:17 |
| dolphm | bknudson: it's implementation is not an extension, it is defined as an API extension | 18:17 |
| bknudson | I'll have to make sure I handle it correctly in the v3 extensions advertisment | 18:17 |
| ayoung | making trusts an extension was a last minute decision. It would have been done cleaner if it wasn't suggested 2 weeks after code freeze | 18:17 |
| ayoung | but that horse is dead | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, there are ways to revite that horse... but not in scope of this conversation | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | revive* | 18:18 |
| gyee_ | give it water | 18:18 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, I'd be OK with that: we really need to integrate all of the delegation mechanisms into one core api | 18:19 |
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| stevemar | ayoung, yeah, mark that for Kilo | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i totally agree | 18:19 |
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| * ayoung whistles | 18:19 | |
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| henrynash | kilo? | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, K release | 18:19 |
| ayoung | Oh, one other patch I want for J1 | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, as of yet unnamed | 18:19 |
| stevemar | K release | 18:19 |
| henrynash | ah, just checking | 18:19 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95989/ | 18:20 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95989/ | 18:20 |
| ayoung | Kerberos as an extension name: | 18:20 |
| ayoung | er method name | 18:20 |
| dolphm | let's move on since we're way out of scope for j1 talk :) | 18:20 |
| dolphm | #topic Juno hackathon | 18:20 |
| ayoung | it means that we have a consistant way to say "this is Kerberos" whether we go with "external" or Jose's approach | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno hackathon (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:20 | |
| dolphm | #link http://dolphm.com/openstack-keystone-hackathon-for-juno | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, is ^^ OK as is? | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | woo geekdom! | 18:21 |
| dolphm | I finally got acknowledgement on the location: 112 East Pecan, San Antonio, Texas 78205 | 18:21 |
| ayoung | modulo jamielennox 's comments? | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | so for sure at Geekdom | 18:21 |
| dolphm | it's middle of downtown in a Geekdom event space | 18:21 |
| * morganfainberg needs to go get approval for this trip now. | 18:21 | |
| dolphm | so, book any hotel downtown! | 18:21 |
| stevemar | oh right, do we have hard dates? | 18:21 |
| gyee_ | morgafainberg, shouldn't be a problem for you :) | 18:21 |
| stevemar | I was looking at hotels last night | 18:21 |
| ayoung | which is the preferred Hotel? | 18:22 |
| dolphm | stevemar: July 9-11 | 18:22 |
| henrynash | geeks road trip…excellent! | 18:22 |
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| lbragstad | #link https://www.google.com/maps/search/hotels+near+Geekdom+san+antonio+tx/@29.4285235,-98.4919432,17z/data=!3m1!4b1 | 18:22 |
| stevemar | I think Holiday Inn San Antonio Riverwalk 217 N St Mary's St is nearby, and affordable | 18:22 |
| topol | what was wrong with valencia? | 18:23 |
| dolphm | i suggested Hotel Valencia http://www.hotelvalencia-riverwalk.com/ only because rackspace has a preferred rate there that everyone *should* be able to take advantage of; it's also about 2 blocks from geekdom | 18:23 |
| stevemar | henrynash, bknudson lbragstad topol - the one i mention is in our policy | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | gyee_, waiting on corp CC to arrive and then need to poke some people to get the sign off, but i'm sure it'll be easy | 18:23 |
| stevemar | topol, we're not at the "Mall" this time around | 18:23 |
| henrynash | stevemar: the man’s way ahead of me | 18:23 |
| dolphm | i'm told you just have to call to make the reservation, and tell them you're in town to visit rackspace | 18:24 |
| topol | stevemar we can get an exception if valencia is optimal. yes I know we are at geekdom | 18:24 |
| topol | but if that works for everyone and we dont need an exception thats fine too | 18:24 |
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| topol | I'll get a rental car so we have one if we need it | 18:25 |
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| morganfainberg | topol, neverlost! | 18:25 |
| * morganfainberg ducks | 18:25 | |
| bknudson | topol: you might need a rental bus for all of us | 18:26 |
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| topol | next time... | 18:26 |
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| topol | stevemar can get one too | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | conversion van! | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, limo? | 18:26 |
| dolphm | thankfully downtown is full of one way streets, so it's impossible to get lost | 18:26 |
| topol | but lets make sure we are in walking distance | 18:26 |
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| topol | was the holiday in walking distance? | 18:27 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: careful with that google search-- geekdom has two locations downtown now | 18:27 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: one is their co-working space and the other is their event space | 18:27 |
| topol | if not let's do valencia and I can help with exceptions | 18:27 |
| stevemar | dolphm, eerrr, which is the right address? | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: that's the right one then? | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | off pecan? | 18:28 |
| dolphm | 112 East Pecan is correct | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | topol, lets just all go with Valencia, nive to have a common hotel for something like this | 18:28 |
| topol | ayoung+++ | 18:28 |
| topol | I agree | 18:28 |
| henrynash | agreed | 18:28 |
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| dolphm | the wrong geekdom location is 110 East Houston | 18:28 |
| * lbragstad noted | 18:29 | |
| morganfainberg | dolphm,i've also been told there is a good place for whiskey around SA. adrian_otto was saying it was awesome -- so... | 18:29 |
| stevemar | topol, will fix exceptions for everyone! | 18:29 |
| ayoung | dolphm, is that for Keystone only, or Barbican as well? | 18:29 |
| topol | wrong geekdom??? how many are there? | 18:29 |
| topol | yes I will fix exceptions | 18:29 |
| ayoung | at Geekdom, I mean | 18:29 |
| topol | IBMer's at least | 18:29 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: the brooklynite is all i can think of | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, is that the one owned by a racker (not sure about former or not) | 18:30 |
| dolphm | ayoung: working on barbican separately, but it should be M-Tu-W same space, same week | 18:30 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:30 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: uhh i dunno. the beer place we went to in january was a former racker (big hops) | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i'll get infos. | 18:30 |
| dolphm | topol: geekdom is expanding, quite quickly. two in SA | 18:30 |
| topol | impressive | 18:31 |
| dolphm | topol: (within a couple blocks of each other) | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | #topic Reviewing languishing reviews for abandonment / re-assignment | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviewing languishing reviews for abandonment / re-assignment (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:31 | |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | ok so if everyone wasn't aware auto abandonment of reviews is dead | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, can we get this one for J1? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95989/ | 18:32 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: do we have a script to identify reviews to consider for abandonment? | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | reviews will never auto-abandon, so we need to review (probably once a month / milestone/ something) the reviews that are lingering around | 18:32 |
| stevemar | dolphm, i've been commenting on some | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, i think any core can actually mark it as abandoned? | 18:33 |
| dolphm | stevemar: thats true now | 18:33 |
| dolphm | we can also Restore anything | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, at the moment no, but i think i can scrape up the infra script that used to abandon so we can run it locally | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | but since we can restore (all cores) | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | and all cores can abandon | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | and i assume authors can still restore if core abandon? | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, yes | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | so we're not risking too much by removing stale things from the review queue | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | we should clean up old reviews. if a review is desired and has no movment, we need to reassign the work | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | i've been going through and cleaning up the ones i know for sure about (a couple) | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, or does it need a full blueprint. | 18:34 |
| ayoung | ? | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | but it shoudn't be just one person sweeping reviews up | 18:35 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you mean a spec? | 18:36 |
| dolphm | ayoung: let's discuss after the meeting | 18:36 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yes, SPC and BP | 18:36 |
| ayoung | OK | 18:36 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: next-review should make languishing reviews fairly easy to spot | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, as will reviewday | 18:37 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: do we want to use the same rule as before? 1 week? | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, that is kindof harsh | 18:37 |
| bknudson | I agree | 18:38 |
| ayoung | 2 weeks? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | 3? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | once a milestone, imo | 18:38 |
| bknudson | doesn't seem like it costs much to have old reviews around. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | you end up with a lot of "bring it back to life but not fix" resubmits | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | or twice a milestone? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | start of milestone: abandon / reassign, middle - did we get anywhere on those / checkin | 18:38 |
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| bknudson | start of milestone seems like a good time | 18:39 |
| stevemar | ++ | 18:39 |
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| bknudson | or maybe at some cutoff before the milestone | 18:39 |
| bknudson | to cull out the # of reviews to look at | 18:39 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i'd rather this not be a significant recurring cleanup effort, but rather an ongoing one | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, sure. | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i don't mind which way it goes, as long as we're doing it | 18:40 |
| ayoung | lets go with one month | 18:40 |
| bknudson | month works for me | 18:40 |
| ayoung | that is roughly how long the milestones last | 18:40 |
| dolphm | after a week or two of silence, we should be leaving review comments asking if the author is available to follow up, and if not, abandon | 18:40 |
| bknudson | two weeks also works | 18:40 |
| dolphm | but the burden is on everyone to ping authors - bonus points if you want to pick up a patch for them :) | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | lets do 2 weeks no response, comment, 1 week later reassign/abandon | 18:41 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i think they're supposed to average 6 weeks | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: can we write that down somewhere? | 18:41 |
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| bknudson | I also like the idea of if someone isn't working on something that we want we should pick it up rather than abandon | 18:41 |
| ayoung | dolphm, Heh, it just feels like the Milestone one release is like a week after the summit, every single time | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: or point me to a spot and I can write something up | 18:41 |
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| morganfainberg | #info Abandonment/Reassign process: 2 weeks of no activity, ping author and ask for update, 1 week after ping (no response) review is up for abandonment or reassignment to an active contributor | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, ^ that work? | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | lol sure! | 18:42 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: it'll be in the meeting notes at least | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, we can put it up on wiki or in our contributing doc | 18:42 |
| dolphm | #topic IDP - User / Group Lookup and Policy Functionality | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IDP - User / Group Lookup and Policy Functionality (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:43 | |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | really quickly | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93982/ | 18:43 |
| ayoung | I think with the sahdow table it becomes: | 18:43 |
| ayoung | I have user ID | 18:43 |
| ayoung | I look in shadow table to find IdP | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | this review brought up an interesting proposition, do we hard-validate users and groups on grant creation | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | right now v2 doesn't validate | 18:43 |
| ayoung | so question is: what if it is not in the shadow table | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | v3 does, but as a side effect fo the policy enforcement decorator | 18:44 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: then it's not a valid ID? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | can I assign to a user, based on userid without them being in the shadow table | 18:44 |
| bknudson | V2 only has admin or public I think, no policy | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | the callback for enforcement that is | 18:44 |
| henrynash | shadow table? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so, what if I am setting up a role for a user before thye hit the system | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, the unique id mapping table | 18:44 |
| ayoung | LDAP, new guy is coming on board... | 18:44 |
| dolphm | bknudson: that binary state actually uses policy, lightly | 18:44 |
| henrynash | ahh. you mean the one I’m proposing - Ok, got it | 18:44 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: the mapping table | 18:44 |
| ayoung | yeah, yeah, should use a group, but readonly LDAP .... | 18:44 |
| dolphm | lookup table? | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | we just need to make the behavior consistent in apis | 18:45 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, consistent ID proposal | 18:45 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, either we don;'t look up, or we need a way to prepopulate the lookup table | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | if we go with "don't validate" we need to rethink how policy works for the v3cloud enforcement style | 18:45 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i'm just trying to remember how we were referring to the proposed table | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | if we go with validate, v2 needs to check and we should make it explicit | 18:45 |
| ayoung | I've been calling it the shadow user table | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | but I think the official nam,e is IDMapping | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, hm. Unified UserID :P | 18:46 |
| ayoung | henrynash, ^^ is that really a good name? should be at least user_id_mapping | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: teh table is id_mapping….remember it has groups in it too | 18:46 |
| ayoung | right | 18:47 |
| dolphm | henrynash: should we not have two tables then? | 18:47 |
| ayoung | henrynash, maybe identity_mapping...I realize ID means identitifier, but it tends to be read as meaning id for any table... | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, nah, so long as it has a type field, one table is better | 18:47 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: we could indeed…since we need to store the type of entity since its possible that a backend might be using a different name spec for users and groups and they could have the same ID | 18:48 |
| ayoung | just like the role assignment table, makes joins easier | 18:48 |
| dolphm | ayoung: explain "better" | 18:48 |
| bknudson | I don't think indexes on type fields are very efficient | 18:48 |
| ayoung | what do we call it there? target is the project side... | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, unless the type is an int :P | 18:48 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ it just seems like an extra, unnecessary index | 18:48 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: is_user (tinyint) | 18:49 |
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| * dolphm is slightly sarcastic ^ | 18:49 | |
| bknudson | an int might be ok, but if every other row is a different type then there's no good way to index. | 18:49 |
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| henrynash | right now its an Enum | 18:49 |
| ayoung | this is the assingment tablehttp://paste.openstack.org/show/82655/ | 18:49 |
| ayoung | http://paste.openstack.org/show/82655/ | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | we could call it the actor table | 18:49 |
| henrynash | i knew that name would come back and bite me! | 18:50 |
| bknudson | although I would expect lots more users than groups | 18:50 |
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| bknudson | so maybe not a big deal in this case | 18:50 |
| henrynash | bknudson: ++ | 18:50 |
| ayoung | type | enum('UserProject','GroupProject','UserDomain','GroupDomain') | 18:50 |
| ayoung | so enum ('User' 'Group' | 18:50 |
| ayoung | ) | 18:50 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I like actor | 18:50 |
| henrynash | ayoung: that’s what i have in teh code today for it! | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | so.. i know we need to solve the user id thing as well. i'd like to just make sure we solve what we want with policy and fixing v2/v3 policy post meeting so we can write it up/code it up/etc | 18:51 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I know, and I was supporting your approach | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | (either accept the review that is posted or not enforce existence) | 18:51 |
| henrynash | ayoung: bows head | 18:51 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, i think we're into henrynash's topic here. :) | 18:51 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: was just thinking that | 18:51 |
| dolphm | although i wasn't sure what the difference between the two was intended to be... | 18:52 |
| dolphm | #topic Cross-backend Unique User and Group Entity IDs | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross-backend Unique User and Group Entity IDs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:52 | |
| dolphm | henrynash: o/ | 18:52 |
| henrynash | so woudl encourage peopel to read the spec! | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, mine is just about policy enforcement consistency in absence of anything else. | 18:52 |
| stevemar | i'm going to appoint henrynash to write up all the specs | 18:52 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97492 | 18:52 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/ | 18:52 |
| henrynash | thx | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | and user must/exist/not exist before grant assigned | 18:53 |
| ayoung | henrynash, is there some way to prepopulate a value in the actor table? | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | If I need to do a role assignment, but the user hasn't logged in, would a GET check in LDAP for the user and then add to the shadow table? | 18:53 |
| henrynash | well, do we know he local identifiers? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | actore table? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | henrynash, yes | 18:54 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: so any identity manger call that causes the backend entity to be read will populate the mappintable | 18:54 |
| dolphm | actore mensamque* | 18:54 |
| ayoung | henrynash, list_users? | 18:54 |
| henrynash | yep | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | that could be expensive the first time it is run.... | 18:55 |
| ayoung | is that OK? | 18:55 |
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| henrynash | well I guess someone will hit it | 18:55 |
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| henrynash | do we know the user name? | 18:55 |
| henrynash | then just do a list with tehuser name as the filter | 18:56 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I think the only things that accept user name are authenticate and list users | 18:56 |
| ayoung | GEt takes userid | 18:56 |
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| henrynash | ahh no - ther is a get user by name manager call | 18:56 |
| ayoung | in V#? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | V3 | 18:56 |
| henrynash | def get_user_by_name(self, user_name, domain_id): | 18:56 |
| bknudson | If I do a list all users will all the users get populated? | 18:57 |
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| bknudson | in the mapping table | 18:57 |
| henrynash | bknudson: first, we insist that you at least qualify teh list with a domain_od | 18:57 |
| ayoung | henrynash, that is only called from an extension | 18:57 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: teh get user byname? | 18:58 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I think so, yes | 18:58 |
| * ayoung still confirming | 18:58 | |
| henrynash | ayoung: it’s in teh identity core manager | 18:58 |
| bknudson | ok, if I list all users in a domain then all the users for that domain get populated? | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ~2min | 18:58 |
| henrynash | bknduson: yes…. | 18:58 |
| bknudson | ok | 18:58 |
| dolphm | you can't actually list users from a federated source | 18:59 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: from LDAP yes, from federated no | 18:59 |
| ayoung | dolphm, we need a way to get a userid from a username for federation | 18:59 |
| dolphm | henrynash: maybe and correct | 18:59 |
| dolphm | (time) | 19:00 |
| ayoung | or at least for LDAP | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 19:00:03 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-03-18.02.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-03-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-03-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
| henrynash | pumpkind (poof) | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, 3 seconds off! | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, :P | 19:00 |
| jeblair | infra people? | 19:00 |
| *** jeblair sets mode: -o jeblair | 19:00 | |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: my reminder was further off than that! | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | o\ | 19:00 |
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| dolphm | jeblair: checkout the Regular Attendees thing here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | dolphm: neat idea! | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, it's pretty awesome to get a ping for it :) works well | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | dolphm: i'm struggling very hard not to ping all of those people right now! ;) | 19:02 |
| dolphm | jeblair: i preseeded it with -core and it populated itself from there | 19:02 |
| mordred_phone | o/ | 19:02 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 19:02:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:02 |
| jeblair | agenda ^ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-27-19.00.html | 19:03 |
| jeblair | last meeting ^ | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | nothing from last meeting so | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic manage-projects status (fungi) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "manage-projects status (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | howdy | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | fungi: are there any errors we should be looking out for still? | 19:04 |
| jeblair | i noticed we created a couple more projects recently | 19:04 |
| fungi | looks like the fix which i had proposed is no longer waiting on https://review.openstack.org/94196 | 19:04 |
| fungi | so just needs reviewing/approving | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/94684 | 19:05 |
| fungi | i haven't spotted any new failures though | 19:05 |
| clarkb | there was the github failure to set account rights | 19:05 |
| clarkb | but other than that I haven't seen anything | 19:05 |
| fungi | clarkb: oh, right. there was | 19:05 |
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| krotscheck | o/ | 19:06 |
| bcrochet | o/ | 19:06 |
| fungi | that we've so far attributed to github api call failures or throttling, but i don't know if anyone has gone digging in the puppet logs yet | 19:06 |
| jeblair | we might see it if we approve all those xstatic changes | 19:06 |
| fungi | it's happened a couple times in the same pattern though, in as many months | 19:06 |
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| fungi | quite possibly | 19:06 |
| anteaya | 16 repos in that xstatic patch | 19:07 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yeah, it'll a good test for manage-projects | 19:08 |
| jeblair | okay, so next time we see the github thing, we should probably start digging into the logs | 19:08 |
| mordred_phone | ++ | 19:08 |
| fungi | yes | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #topic Review Third Party wiki templates (anteaya) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Third Party wiki templates (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
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| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Template:ThirdPartySystemInfoSubst | 19:08 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Template:ProgramsThirdPartySubst | 19:08 |
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| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:09 |
| anteaya | so the first one is the one we looked at last week, for third party accounts | 19:09 |
| anteaya | the second one is new, meant for openstack programs | 19:09 |
| anteaya | if we are happy, I can get krtaylor to fill out one for third party | 19:09 |
| jeblair | anteaya: cool. most of that looks good. i'd suggest removing the mission statement as it's sort of duplicative | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | and perhaps jeblair will fill out one for infra | 19:10 |
| anteaya | as a seed for others | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: nope, we're not a third party :) | 19:10 |
| anteaya | I can remove the mission statement | 19:10 |
| fungi | yeah, i think we discussed having the mission statement just replaced by a link to the program page | 19:10 |
| anteaya | we are an openstack program though | 19:10 |
| jeblair | fungi: ++ | 19:10 |
| anteaya | which is what the second template is for | 19:10 |
| jeblair | anteaya: ah, i see; though we have no third-party testing related to our program... i'm not sure it makes sense to have this for every program, but rather just for those that have 3rd party testing | 19:11 |
| fungi | anteaya: one question though, what is the intended workflow here for third-party systems which are dedicated to only testing stackforge projects (you don't have to know the answer now, just worth thinking about--there are more than a few) | 19:11 |
| anteaya | right, I we do have a relationship with thrid party though | 19:11 |
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| anteaya | in taht we oversee the struture and have a direct say in how that structure is built and managed | 19:12 |
| anteaya | fungi: I don't know, I don't know how stackforge testing would differ from testing openstack projects | 19:12 |
| anteaya | I would need to talk to some maintainers of such an account | 19:12 |
| jeblair | anteaya: sure, but i don't think we have the kind of relationship that i see this page being used for | 19:12 |
| anteaya | okay | 19:13 |
| anteaya | I'll work with neutron to make a seed page | 19:13 |
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| anteaya | any other comments/corrections on these templates? | 19:14 |
| anteaya | I can work to have the seed pages up for review next week | 19:14 |
| jeblair | anteaya: lgtm, and thanks again! | 19:14 |
| anteaya | great | 19:14 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:14 |
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| * ttx lurks | 19:14 | |
| jeblair | #topic Formatting Automated Gerrit Account Names (anteaya) | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Formatting Automated Gerrit Account Names (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| anteaya | me again | 19:15 |
| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/automated-gerrit-account-naming-format | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | so I have dumped what I have found about gerrit account names for automated accounts | 19:15 |
| anteaya | we discussed some keywords last week | 19:16 |
| anteaya | I need some more agressive guidance on how to seperate the groups | 19:16 |
| anteaya | and then to id which ones need to be renamed | 19:16 |
| anteaya | and then what process to rename | 19:16 |
| jeblair | anteaya: anything that votes (or is intended to eventually vote) in the verified colum is "{name} CI" | 19:17 |
| anteaya | great | 19:17 |
| jeblair | anteaya: anything else automated is "{name} Bot" | 19:17 |
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| anteaya | that helps | 19:17 |
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| anteaya | okay so when we look at {name} | 19:17 |
| anteaya | what are the options? | 19:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ++ for CI/Bot naming | 19:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | anteaya, there are company names and project names | 19:18 |
| anteaya | we have a group that needs 4 cinder ci accounts | 19:18 |
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| anteaya | that can get long | 19:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | anteaya, we have sahara-ci (honestly it's still savanna-ci) | 19:18 |
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| anteaya | you do | 19:18 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i think most of those pass the sniff test; they seem fairly descriptive | 19:18 |
| anteaya | okay so we can grandfather these | 19:18 |
| jeblair | anteaya: oh, well, i think many of them should change | 19:18 |
| fungi | seems fine, then anyone wanting to filter all automated systems can just match on " (CI|Bot)$" in names i suppose | 19:18 |
| clarkb | fungi: yup | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: just the descriptive name or the username too? | 19:19 |
| anteaya | jeblair: many of the existing ones on the list should change? | 19:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, it'll be useful I hope | 19:19 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i think we should be looking for something like "{company} {product} CI" | 19:19 |
| anteaya | jeblair: great | 19:19 |
| jeblair | anteaya: or "{product} CI" or "{company} CI" if they are, er, a less diverse company. :) | 19:19 |
| fungi | i also think getting rid of "openstack" in third-party ci/bot names is advisable (i try to trim that out when i'm the one handling requests) | 19:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, ++ | 19:19 |
| jeblair | fungi: ++ | 19:19 |
| anteaya | yes, I agree that only we should be using openstack | 19:20 |
| fungi | but i do see some in the list, so they ought to get cleaned up in this process | 19:20 |
| anteaya | let me come up with a list of suggested revisions for the list for next week | 19:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and we need to rename it to openstack-ci (OpenStack CI) | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | do we plan on updating name and username? | 19:20 |
| clarkb | or just the descriptive name? | 19:21 |
| anteaya | I think everything | 19:21 |
| anteaya | part of the issue is that name and username don't match | 19:21 |
| clarkb | https://review.openstack.org/Documentation/cmd-set-account.html won't update the username | 19:21 |
| anteaya | like brocade | 19:21 |
| clarkb | so username will require DB changes | 19:21 |
| clarkb | anteaya: ok | 19:21 |
| anteaya | we have brocade_jenkins and brocade_tempest for teh same account | 19:21 |
| anteaya | that is just confusing | 19:21 |
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| anteaya | yes, that will be a step during the process of changing the names | 19:22 |
| anteaya | editing the db | 19:22 |
| fungi | i don't think the usernames matter | 19:22 |
| anteaya | I would like them to be consistent | 19:22 |
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| fungi | they aren't displayed in the webui with their votes, and changing them instantly breaks teh remote systems which were logging in with them | 19:22 |
| anteaya | so if someone asks me about brocade_jenkins I know what account they are talking about | 19:23 |
| fungi | which is a mighty steep price for consistency | 19:23 |
| clarkb | fungi: good point | 19:23 |
| fungi | gerrit already makes sure they're unique, so i think that should be sufficient | 19:23 |
| anteaya | do we have any control over how they set their usernames? | 19:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | personally I'd like to see username-displayedname consistence, but price - break all 3rd party, edit db manually | 19:24 |
| anteaya | so that at the very least in future the usernames and account names can match up? | 19:24 |
| fungi | we can assign them in the future | 19:24 |
| anteaya | great | 19:24 |
| anteaya | I can settle for that | 19:24 |
| fungi | just need to make sure that's part of the process | 19:24 |
| * anteaya nods | 19:24 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | could we always resolve username to display name? | 19:24 |
| fungi | there are gerrit api calls which can do that | 19:25 |
| fungi | i believe | 19:25 |
| SergeyLukjanov | like russellb's reviewstats shows usernames | 19:25 |
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| anteaya | did | 19:25 |
| anteaya | reviewstats is offline | 19:25 |
| anteaya | I think I have enough to work on this and come back next week with some suggestions | 19:25 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:25 |
| russellb | not sure it's worth publishing anymore, fine if people want to run locally, but stackalytics has a better UI anyway | 19:25 |
| clarkb | https://review.openstack.org/Documentation/rest-api-accounts.html#get-account yup | 19:25 |
| anteaya | russellb: I liked yours better | 19:26 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | clarkb, thanks | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | russellb: i use it; i find examining disagreements to be important | 19:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | so, we should have no issues with it | 19:26 |
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| russellb | you guys seen http://stackalytics.com/report/contribution/nova-group/30 ? | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | russellb: there isn't anythin like that for infra last I looked | 19:27 |
| clarkb | (probably does exist it just isn't navigable) | 19:27 |
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| anteaya | russellb: I hadn't before, I still like yours better, simpler and I like text | 19:27 |
| russellb | clarkb: http://stackalytics.com/report/contribution/infra-group/30 | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | I had chatted with anteaya a couple weeks ago about hosting it somewhere in infra | 19:27 |
| jeblair | russellb: nice; though i actually have reviewstats _output_ the disagreements so i can read them; and i also make lots of ad-hoc groups. | 19:27 |
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| russellb | ah, cool | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | then other things came up, I think I was supposed to follow up with russellb to see if he wanted us to ;) | 19:27 |
| russellb | well i can fix the hosted stats if enough people really care ... I think it may be something with the upgrade, i dunno, i haven't messed with it | 19:28 |
| mordred_phone | jeblair: we could likely get stackaltics to do that too | 19:28 |
| russellb | +100000 to hosting it in infra | 19:28 |
| russellb | plz | 19:28 |
| russellb | if people want it | 19:28 |
| jeblair | anteaya: so i think that's it for the account name topic | 19:28 |
| jeblair | ? | 19:28 |
| russellb | just never got around to doing the work to get it hosted myself | 19:28 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: yes | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | russellb: cool | 19:28 |
| jeblair | i think the horizon repo topic is left over from last week | 19:28 |
| jeblair | so next up | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | #topic Release git-review 1.24 | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release git-review 1.24 (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:28 | |
| jeblair | i don't know who added that | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | i'm not sure if it was intended as an imperative | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: do it now ! :P | 19:29 |
| ttx | yes! | 19:29 |
| jeblair | like, adding it to the wiki page will cause it to happen | 19:29 |
| clarkb | I am on board with a release | 19:29 |
| * ttx hacks up a irc-to-tag script | 19:29 | |
| clarkb | does the https functionality have feature parity ish with ssh now? | 19:29 |
| jeblair | fungi: ? | 19:29 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:29 |
| jeblair | ttx: wiki -> irc -> tag | 19:30 |
| clarkb | I think that is the one item that may be nice to have in before doing a release but it isn't critical either | 19:30 |
| fungi | yep, i'll go ahead and cut one. did we want to get the -W option reviewed and merged for 1.24 as well? | 19:30 |
| clarkb | fungi: there was enough commenting on that chnage that I didn't expect it to merge quickly | 19:30 |
| fungi | i think i added it and maybe forgot to add (fungi) on the line | 19:30 |
| clarkb | but I didn't look at it after the first patch | 19:30 |
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| ttx | jeblair: as soon as I'm finished with my IRC actions -> RememberTheMilk gateway | 19:30 |
| fungi | i was letting the dust settle on it but need to revisit | 19:30 |
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| * ttx looks forward to not having to ad LANG=C every time he uses git-review | 19:31 | |
| anteaya | fungi added it: https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting&diff=prev&oldid=53841 | 19:31 |
| mordred_phone | ttx speak moar english | 19:31 |
| jeblair | fungi: is the '-W' option an openstackism? | 19:31 |
| fungi | anteaya: yeah, i remember adding it, was just admonishing myself for forgetting the nick tagline | 19:31 |
| ttx | mordred: I realized in Jerusalem that French should be attempted first | 19:31 |
| anteaya | fungi: ah | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: yes | 19:32 |
| mordred_phone | jeblair: yah. | 19:32 |
| fungi | jeblair: good point, it's for setting workflow +1 and its docs mention it only works with a gerrit configured for that label | 19:32 |
| jeblair | clarkb: :( | 19:32 |
| fungi | er, workflow -1 | 19:32 |
| jeblair | would be neat if that could be generalized, but i don't have any _good_ ideas off the top of my head for that | 19:32 |
| fungi | yeah, i'll see if any spring to mind | 19:32 |
| clarkb | jeblair: maybe a .gitreview value to set on -W | 19:33 |
| fungi | possibly, followed by a mass patchbomb to all projects in our gerrit | 19:33 |
| jeblair | clarkb: heh, that's going to be a fun 297 patches to merge | 19:33 |
| fungi | i can take that up | 19:33 |
| clarkb | or make it default to what we do | 19:33 |
| clarkb | and let others override that way | 19:33 |
| fungi | that would then be an openstackism | 19:33 |
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| fungi | i'm more in favor of having it default to off | 19:34 |
| fungi | anyway, that can be taken up in the review | 19:34 |
| fungi | no need to waste meeting time on it | 19:34 |
| jeblair | i mean "git review --label='Work In Progress'" works but isn't exactly convenient. | 19:34 |
| jeblair | fungi: true. | 19:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | config file for WIP label? | 19:34 |
| jeblair | fungi: so, maybe cut 1.24 without wip? | 19:34 |
| jeblair | to make ttx happy | 19:34 |
| fungi | jeblair: yeah, i think so | 19:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, ++ | 19:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | not only ttx :) | 19:35 |
| fungi | wip can be considered for 1.25 | 19:35 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: ;) | 19:35 |
| jeblair | sounds good | 19:35 |
| jeblair | #topic Fedora/Centos7 Plans (ianw) | 19:35 |
| fungi | i've been using current master long enough i'm pretty sure it's sane (plus, we do have some testing on it as well) | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fedora/Centos7 Plans (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:35 | |
| ianw | hi, so the f20 job for devstack has been pretty reliable | 19:35 |
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| ianw | so i'm looking at getting it on the path to voting | 19:36 |
| ianw | the first thing is getting it in multiple clouds | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | was the issue that hpcloud didn't have a base image? | 19:36 |
| ianw | are we fully moved to the new hp cloud that has f20 images? | 19:36 |
| clarkb | hpcloud only has f17 iirc | 19:36 |
| fungi | ianw: we are | 19:36 |
| clarkb | even in 1.1 | 19:37 |
| fungi | oh?!? | 19:37 |
| fungi | eek | 19:37 |
| jeblair | | 831fa6a5-1ca5-42ea-bd41-4cbebf01085a | Fedora 20 Server 64-bit 20140407 - Partner Image | ACTIVE | | 19:37 |
| jesusaurus | clarkb: theres a partner image | 19:37 |
| clarkb | ah another partner image | 19:37 |
| * anteaya has lost power once already, it could happen again anytime | 19:37 | |
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| jeblair | so most of our "run on new image" work is waiting on dib/glance in nodepool | 19:38 |
| jeblair | but since we already have this working on f20... | 19:38 |
| jeblair | i don't see a reason for this work to block on that. | 19:38 |
| clarkb | yup the unbound change to make dib work needs approval I had planned on doing that today but we are still underwater on the zuul/nodepool stuff | 19:38 |
| clarkb | jeblair: wfm | 19:38 |
| ianw | that's my next question; what is the status of the dib work? | 19:38 |
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| fungi | ianw: increasing review priority for me this week, assuming nodepool settles down for us | 19:39 |
| clarkb | ianw: there are patches up for review. We need a small change to puppet which is ready for approval we just need time | 19:39 |
| clarkb | ianw: then its on to reviewing the changes that actually marry dib and nodepool | 19:39 |
| jeblair | is there a nodepool glance change yet? | 19:39 |
| clarkb | mordred_phone: ^ | 19:39 |
| ianw | clarkb: ok, i might ping you outside meeting time to get fully up to speed | 19:39 |
| ianw | so the other thing, thinking forward to centos7 release, i think that's going to be the best long-term base for rpm testing | 19:40 |
| bcrochet | +1 | 19:40 |
| * jeblair assumes mordred's seatback and tray tables are in the upright position | 19:40 | |
| ianw | presumably, the dib work will be the way to deploy centos7? | 19:40 |
| fungi | ianw: any eta on that upstream? | 19:40 |
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| clarkb | ianw: yes I would expect to do trusty and centos7 via dib | 19:41 |
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| ianw | fungi: i think "soon" | 19:41 |
| fungi | rsn... got it | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | fungi: what was your question? | 19:41 |
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| fungi | jeblair: i was wondering when centos 7 was due for release | 19:42 |
| jesusaurus | is centos7 going to be used for infra, or just for testing? should i add a puppet-apply test for f20 and/or centos7? | 19:42 |
| jeblair | fungi: ah, gotcha | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | jesusaurus: i think we will be in no hurry to move our centos6 servers to 7 | 19:42 |
| clarkb | jeblair: we will likely only use fedora for testing never for infra | 19:42 |
| clarkb | er jesusaurus ^ | 19:42 |
| fungi | jesusaurus: i expect we would be likely to use it in places where we need it, but yeah, no need to upgrade just for the sake of it | 19:42 |
| jesusaurus | gotcha | 19:43 |
| clarkb | so the value of testing on fedora 20 is minimal when it comes to that test | 19:43 |
| ianw | so, in conclusion, i should test out the hp f20 partner image with the idea of bringing it it into nodepool? | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | ianw: i think so | 19:43 |
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| clarkb | yup run the build scripts on it and see if it looks happy | 19:43 |
| clarkb | then we can add the image to nodepool | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | centos7 should probably wait for the dib stuff to land (and, also, centos7) | 19:44 |
| ianw | and i will reach out to clarkb about the dib work and that will be the base for centos7 | 19:44 |
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| clarkb | ianw: sounds good | 19:44 |
| ianw | jeblair: yeah, just want to be as ready as possible when it does land :) | 19:44 |
| ianw | ok, thanks, no more on that topic from me | 19:45 |
| jeblair | ianw: cool, thanks! | 19:45 |
| jeblair | #topic Consistency in acl reviews (anteaya) | 19:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Consistency in acl reviews (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:45 | |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/owner:%22Dan+Bode%22+file:%255E.*/acls/.*+NOT+status:abandoned,n,z | 19:45 |
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| anteaya | apologies in advance if I lose power again | 19:45 |
| anteaya | so I would like to review the reviewing of this set of patchs | 19:45 |
| anteaya | specifically the acl file reviews | 19:45 |
| anteaya | going back of these I realize I was inconsistent, so I need to address that and be more consistent | 19:46 |
| anteaya | but the part I wanted to discuss | 19:46 |
| anteaya | and I do wish sdague and zaro were here | 19:46 |
| anteaya | is that on one of the patches, dan got -1'd for editing the file the way I had asked him to edit | 19:46 |
| anteaya | which I find embarassing, personally | 19:47 |
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| anteaya | he got -1'd twice | 19:47 |
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| zaro | here. sorry i forgot about meeting. | 19:47 |
| clarkb | I don't think it is embarrasing. It is definitely inefficient. | 19:47 |
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| clarkb | we can hash out these disagreements without makeing the author go back and forth | 19:47 |
| anteaya | agreed | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: it definitely wasn't due to a lack of accurate reviewing on your part; it was because the actual issue is very unclear | 19:47 |
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| anteaya | if I am reviewing a file poorly, I would like to know and to improve | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | great | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | let's see if we can get some clarity | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | two things I saw | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | require contributor agreement = true | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | and the [project] stanza | 19:48 |
| * anteaya notes the howling wind outside | 19:49 | |
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| anteaya | anyone with any thoughts? | 19:49 |
| jeblair | in order to avoid wild swings on the CLA issue, i think we should avoid trying to decide it ourselves early... | 19:49 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I agree | 19:49 |
| jeblair | it's an unanswered legal and policy question, and will likely be so for quite some time | 19:49 |
| anteaya | what should we do for now? | 19:49 |
| fungi | long ago i stopped -1'ing patches for cruft where people are cargo-culting no-op default values | 19:49 |
| jeblair | so i think the approach of not changing our existing projects, and also not requiring the cla for projects that are split from projects that don't require the cla is the closest thing we have to keeping the 'status quo' | 19:50 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:50 |
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| anteaya | okay, so in this case referencing config.config since that is the parent acl of this change series | 19:50 |
| anteaya | I can follow that | 19:50 |
| fungi | that's basically what i've done as well | 19:50 |
| anteaya | I will do that too, or ask if I can't figure out the parent | 19:51 |
| anteaya | is [project] cruft? | 19:51 |
| anteaya | I had thought it is | 19:51 |
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| fungi | i'm not sure i understand your question | 19:51 |
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| clarkb | the active = true bit is | 19:52 |
| anteaya | in the acl file, the [project] stanza | 19:52 |
| anteaya | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96522/5/modules/openstack_project/files/gerrit/acls/openstack-infra/puppet-pip.config | 19:52 |
| clarkb | or is it status = active | 19:52 |
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| clarkb | whatever that line is | 19:52 |
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| anteaya | status = active | 19:52 |
| jeblair | anteaya: it's not necessary, certainly. i think fungi was saying that it doesn't matter either way, so no use going back and doing another patchset about it | 19:52 |
| clarkb | but it doesn't hurt to have it either and is probably not worth a -1 | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: what we might want to do is remove all refs from our docs and then merge a patch that removes it from all acl files | 19:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | clarkb ++ | 19:52 |
| anteaya | okay, I will ignore it then if it is in the file | 19:52 |
| jeblair | anteaya: then we might stop the cargo culting | 19:52 |
| fungi | right, i need to update my current cleanup patch series, but i think it's something we solve by fixing all the existing acls in one go so people stop copying around unnecessary stuff | 19:53 |
| jeblair | fungi: oh you've already started on that :) | 19:53 |
| clarkb | fungi: agreed | 19:53 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: yup there is a series of WIP changes | 19:53 |
| fungi | i've already git it basically scripted | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | okay, so I will ignore it for now if it is there | 19:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'm still thinking on yaml-based acls, hope to publish spec someday | 19:53 |
| fungi | to make it repeatable and better able to weather rebase hell or race conditions in reviewing existing changes | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | I don't usually suggest the refs/tags/* line in a file that doesn't have it | 19:53 |
| anteaya | I figure if people want tags they will know to include it | 19:54 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I'm trying to suggest tags or smth else when see that folks most probably would like to have it | 19:54 |
| fungi | our documentation should suggest reasonable things, and then we should spot when something is required to be added to the acl by implication from jobs they may be adding or similar evio\dence | 19:54 |
| fungi | evidence | 19:54 |
| anteaya | maybe I need to know more about tags then | 19:55 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think a large problem is a lot of people doing this have zero experience with our infra and gerrit | 19:55 |
| anteaya | clarkb: + | 19:55 |
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| clarkb | they are told to stackforge or do $thing with openstack and really don't grok what they need | 19:55 |
| clarkb | so suggestions may help that | 19:56 |
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| fungi | right. if a project is adding release jobs but has no tag section in their acl for example, then it might merit mentioning (to find out if they really meant to add the jobs, or require the acl addition) | 19:56 |
| clarkb | maybe a "So you wanna stackforge" doc | 19:56 |
| jeblair | clarkb: the existing stackforge doc could be expanded | 19:56 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya | 19:56 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:57 | |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Qa_Infra_Meetup_2014 | 19:57 |
| jeblair | for anyone going to the meetup, could you please sign up on that page ^ | 19:57 |
| * SergeyLukjanov remembering the time when I've proposed the sahara addition to stackforge CR | 19:57 | |
| pleia2 | I have the "not quite production" zanata puppet files from Carlos, will be looking through them and hope to have some kind of maintainability report by next meeting (if you've been following the thread on list, it's kind of tricky) | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: i'm sort of surprised. i guess at the summit they didn't realize we run free software here? | 19:59 |
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| pleia2 | jeblair: redhat does all kinds of open source, you just need a license for delivery and updates ;) | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | sorry, that's probably inapproprite, I'm just frustrated | 19:59 |
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| clarkb | :( | 19:59 |
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| zaro | had a question about private gerrit for security reviews bug 1083101 | 20:00 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1083101 in openstack-ci "Set up private gerrit for security reviews" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1083101 | 20:00 |
| jeblair | pleia2: if we can't run it, pootle still seemed like a good option; the delta between it and zanata was small, and we have people who might actually hack on it. | 20:00 |
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| zaro | do we want to continue to make that happen? | 20:00 |
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| pleia2 | jeblair: noted, I'll see how far I get this week we'll go from there | 20:00 |
| fungi | zaro: oh, right, i asked the rest of the vmt. it's still desirable for us | 20:00 |
| jeblair | i'm out next week, i'll be completely unreachable | 20:00 |
| Ajaeger | pleia2, your work on a transifex replacement is appreciated. Just heard today some comments that transifex has some problems - we might have lost some translations ;( | 20:00 |
| ttx | +1 | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | and i think we're at time | 20:01 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 20:01:16 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| pleia2 | Ajaeger: thanks for saying so, hope it's not too bad | 20:01 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-03-19.02.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-03-19.02.txt | 20:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-03-19.02.log.html | 20:01 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
| anteaya | o/ | 20:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:01 |
| Kiall | o/ | 20:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| mugsie | o/ | 20:01 |
| mikal | Heya | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| betsy | o/ | 20:01 |
| barclaac | o/ | 20:01 |
| zehicle_at_dell | O/ | 20:01 |
| sballe | o/ | 20:01 |
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| vinod1 | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | markmc, annegentle, mordred, vishy, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague : around ? | 20:02 |
| ekarlso | o/ | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:02 |
| richm | o/ | 20:02 |
| jmcbride | o/ | 20:02 |
| Kiall | ttx: I believe mordred is on a flight | 20:02 |
| timfreund | o/ | 20:02 |
| * ttx suspects that markmc and markmcclain won't be around. annegentle is away on vacation | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | Kiall: what kind of an excuse is that | 20:02 |
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| Kiall | ttx: a terrible one, I know. There will be repercussions. | 20:03 |
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| ttx | but then we have quorum | 20:03 |
| ttx | (barely) | 20:03 |
| Ajaeger | annegentle is on vacation this week | 20:03 |
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| ttx | so let's start | 20:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 20:03:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
| ttx | Here is our agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
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| ttx | the markmcs are coming | 20:04 |
| ttx | #topic Designate incubation request | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Designate incubation request (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-May/000679.html | 20:04 |
| markmc | (connectivity may be spotty for me, sorry) | 20:04 |
| ttx | Kiall: o/ | 20:04 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:04 |
| Kiall | Hi ttx :) | 20:04 |
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| ttx | We have a work document at: | 20:04 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DesignateIncubationQ&A | 20:04 |
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| ttx | also Kiall just posted a corresponding programs.yaml change at: | 20:05 |
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| markmcclain | Same for me too | 20:05 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97609/ | 20:05 |
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| ttx | So let's work from the etherpad | 20:05 |
| devananda | ttx: should we discuss the program application at the same time? | 20:05 |
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| Kiall | Should Q's be answered in the etherpad, or here? | 20:06 |
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| ttx | devananda: yes | 20:06 |
| vishy | hi | 20:06 |
| ttx | can't really accept one without the other | 20:06 |
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| devananda | right | 20:06 |
| russellb | Kiall: i think we should discuss here, and take notes in etherpad | 20:07 |
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| markmcclain | Really I think that we can accept the project and then discuss the home program | 20:07 |
| ttx | there were a few questions posted in the etherpad inline | 20:07 |
| Kiall | russellb: OK | 20:07 |
| devananda | markmcclain: the project application includes wording that it should join the designate program. so we can't accept the application as-is without discussing the program as well | 20:07 |
| ttx | someone asked " What is the plan for deprecating DNS support in nova?" | 20:08 |
| mikal | That's me | 20:08 |
| russellb | would the designate team be willing to lead the effort to do that nova work? | 20:08 |
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| russellb | it's not going to happen otherwise, i suspect | 20:08 |
| Kiall | Okay - mikal: Ideally, nova's in-built DNS features will be deprecated, with a plugin provided to proxy API calls until it can be removed. | 20:08 |
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| mikal | Kiall: yes, but who will do that work? | 20:08 |
| mikal | Kiall: I think its a good thing to do, but we need someone to sign up | 20:08 |
| devananda | Kiall: and will you provide an upgrade/migration path? | 20:09 |
| russellb | (see above question, heh) | 20:09 |
| mikal | Kiall: I would be surprised if anyone is using the current DNS support, but we need to treat it like any other deprecated feature | 20:09 |
| markmc | mikal, do you consider it required in order to graduate designate, or ? | 20:09 |
| Kiall | mikal: We're (designate-core) happy to take on the work of building the proxy etc | 20:09 |
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| Kiall | mikal: agreed - I know of nobody actively using the feature. | 20:09 |
| russellb | markmc: i think it fits under our deprecation of duplicated functionality clauses in our requirements | 20:09 |
| mikal | markmc: I think we do need to do this to graduate | 20:09 |
| ttx | Kiall: could you explain why you ended up needing a V2 ? | 20:09 |
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| ttx | (mostly curious) | 20:10 |
| markmc | if we think no-one is using it, I think we're doing the process-for-the-sake-of-process thing again | 20:10 |
| markmc | if no-one is using it, deprecate it and later just remove it | 20:10 |
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| mikal | markmc: how do we prove no one is using it though? | 20:10 |
| mikal | markmc: I know people who have _wanted_ to use it | 20:10 |
| jeblair | i think someone replaced half the etherpad with the letter 'c'. | 20:10 |
| barclaac | I'd agree with markmc - if noone is using... | 20:10 |
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| mikal | markmc: they might have succeeded without me realizing | 20:10 |
| Kiall | ttx: Sure - So we have a few things we wanted to do in V2 - First are foremost was to have an API that didn't allow end-users to violate the DNS RFCs, so it's introduced the RecordSet concept. | 20:10 |
| russellb | jeblair: lol. | 20:11 |
| markmc | mikal, warn in the deprecation notice that it will be removed, wait for someone to scream | 20:11 |
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| mikal | ttx / Kiall: can we stay on the nova thing for a bit longer please? | 20:11 |
| Kiall | ttx: The second was wanting to have a place to store information related to groups of records for future features such as GeoIP, Weighted round robin etc | 20:11 |
| ttx | jeblair: I trust you'll restore a complete version :) | 20:11 |
| jeblair | ttx: i'll try | 20:11 |
| Kiall | mikal: Sure | 20:11 |
| russellb | it was sarob | 20:11 |
| russellb | could have him just hit undo ... | 20:12 |
| ttx | mikal: sure -- was just parallelizing | 20:12 |
| mikal | markmc: because users lag trunk, we still risk people discovering their favourite feature is gone ell after its too late | 20:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: there is an admin api query to get the data from an older version | 20:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: you can then splat that in | 20:12 |
| jeblair | okay, now all the type just got huge | 20:12 |
| russellb | time slider works too | 20:12 |
| Kiall | mikal: designate-core are happy to take on the work of implementing the shim inside of Nova | 20:12 |
| ttx | Kiall: ok, thx! | 20:12 |
| mikal | Sigh | 20:12 |
| mikal | Kiall: that's what I want to hear, and I'm now completely happy with that element | 20:12 |
| mikal | Kiall: thanks | 20:13 |
| Kiall | No problem | 20:13 |
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| mikal | Is it safe to edit the etherpad to put that there? | 20:13 |
| devananda | if we're going to require deprecation plans as policy when replacing features, we should do that for dns as well. "we dont know if anyone is using it" is not a valid reason | 20:13 |
| russellb | it was already there i thought | 20:13 |
| mikal | russellb: the etherpad keeps changing on me as they revert | 20:13 |
| russellb | yeah ... it *was* there ... | 20:13 |
| russellb | sigh | 20:13 |
| Kiall | devananda: agreed, even if there are 0 people using it, the standard policy of removal over several releases should always apply. | 20:13 |
| markmcclain | devananda:+1 | 20:14 |
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| mikal | (Yeah, that was the sigh before. Its an etherpad sign, not a designate sigh) | 20:14 |
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| ttx | someone is ethertrolling us | 20:14 |
| sdague | ttx or using internet explorer | 20:14 |
| Kiall | Okay next Q was: <ttx> Kiall: could you explain why you ended up needing a V2 ? | 20:14 |
| ttx | Other concerns on the project side ? | 20:14 |
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| Kiall | So we have a few things we wanted to do in V2 - First are foremost was to have an API that didn't allow end-users to violate the DNS RFCs, so it's introduced the RecordSet concept. | 20:15 |
| russellb | just a general, how would you summarize how the project has evolved and matured since the previous application? | 20:15 |
| sdague | so regardless of the etherpad, comments in looking at designate. Activity and diversity are currently better than 2 of 3 of our incubated projects (only Ironic is higher) | 20:15 |
| Kiall | This was very breaking change, so needed a version bump. | 20:15 |
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| Kiall | The second was wanting to have a place to store information related to groups of records for future features such as GeoIP, Weighted round robin etc - RRSet's give us that place. | 20:15 |
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| Kiall | For example, RRSet 1 for EU users, RRSet 2 for US users, RRSet 3 for everyone else. | 20:16 |
| ttx | Kiall: makes sense, thx | 20:16 |
| devananda | Kiall: in reading the code this morning, i spotted a few things i consider shortcomings -- it's not using common db code (neither oslo.incubator nor oslo.db), and it's not using alembic yet. also, there are some "objects" that look like a very early version of the nova rpc object code. | 20:16 |
| russellb | in general, things look better all around from what i see so far | 20:16 |
| devananda | Kiall: do you have plans to move to common db code, alembic, etc? | 20:16 |
| Kiall | sdague: I believe the biggest thing is more groups and developers involved. | 20:16 |
| sdague | Kiall: actually, that was a compliment :) | 20:16 |
| vishy | does the nova dns code even work? | 20:16 |
| Kiall | devananda: Yes - oslo.db is something we haven't had cycles for yet, but ekarlso has been itching to do it :) | 20:16 |
| sdague | you guys are already performing above some of our incubated projects, so that's goodness | 20:17 |
| Kiall | I suspect as part of that, we'll move to the oslo migrate code. | 20:17 |
| ttx | vishy: ask the guy who wrote it. Oh wait | 20:17 |
| russellb | vishy: not sure, doubt it | 20:17 |
| mikal | vishy: I had it working a year or so ago | 20:17 |
| ekarlso | well, I can volunteer to switch to alembic and o.db | 20:17 |
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| devananda | Kiall: glad to hear it. ya'll have good integration with many other oslo utils, so that one stood out to me :) | 20:17 |
| ekarlso | it should be *hopefully* a trivial change... | 20:17 |
| mikal | vishy: I don't know if its drifted since then | 20:17 |
| Kiall | ekarlso: famous last words | 20:17 |
| ttx | ekarlso: that would be a graduation requirement, not an incubation prerequisite anyway | 20:17 |
| russellb | indeed | 20:18 |
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| * jaypipes has concerns about designate-core pushing reviews through after legitimate review -1 comments about not having unit tests for added code. | 20:18 | |
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| ekarlso | ttx: are these libraries ready yet ? last when I checked they where still in beta ish state ? | 20:18 |
| sarob | what happened? | 20:18 |
| devananda | ekarlso: what ttx said ^ -- I was checking to see where it was on your plans | 20:18 |
| ekarlso | devananda: ok boss | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: that is concerning | 20:18 |
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| Kiall | jaypipes: I do agree, and I know I was among them | 20:18 |
| mugsie | and me | 20:19 |
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| russellb | so .. why'd you do that? :) | 20:19 |
| Kiall | jaypipes: The current method of implementing backends is currently undergoing change, significantly simplifying them, and hopefully making them much easier to test. | 20:19 |
| russellb | or are you saying "yeah we screwed up, we agree, and we'll do better" ? | 20:19 |
| Kiall | Our current backends pretty much all lack test - It's literally the biggest gap in out testing. | 20:19 |
| ttx | looks like we identified another key area for improevement | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | Kiall: understood. It's a concern of mine that sounds like you're aware of it and are tightening your core review requirements, which is great to hear. | 20:20 |
| sdague | jaypipes: you have an assessment of where designate stands on test coverage relative to other projects? | 20:20 |
| Kiall | russellb: yes - "yeah we screwed up, we agree, and we'll do better" is accurate | 20:20 |
| ttx | I don't think that's an incubation blocker as long as everyone agrees that was bad practice and will correct it | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | sdague: no, sorry I do not. | 20:20 |
| russellb | k, fine with me then :) | 20:20 |
| Kiall | russellb: and hopefully something the current cycle of changes can improve on | 20:20 |
| russellb | ttx: agreed | 20:20 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: yes, agree completely. | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | ttx: I was just raising it as a concern I had had. | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | ttx: agreed, but maybe we need a note to follow-up for the graduation review | 20:21 |
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| Kiall | jaypipes: I'd be surprised if it wasn't raised :) | 20:21 |
| ttx | jaypipes: thanks for raising it -- I for one did not look deep enough to uncover that | 20:21 |
| * jaypipes readily acknowledges early Glance review frontiers were similarly gnarly ;) | 20:21 | |
| sdague | the devstack job proposed looks like it's sufficient for our incubation threshold. I'd like to see it land and run before we actually vote. | 20:21 |
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| Kiall | sdague: the same devstack plugin run as a 3rd party test | 20:21 |
| jeblair | Kiall: when it lands will you stand down the 3rd party test rig? | 20:21 |
| sdague | Kiall: ah, pointer to results? | 20:21 |
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| Kiall | Yes, it will be shutdown straight away | 20:22 |
| jeblair | wfm | 20:22 |
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| Kiall | sdague: http://15.126.220.179:8080/job/designate-devstack-mysql/447/ and http://15.126.220.179:8080/job/designate-devstack-postgresql/448/ | 20:22 |
| Kiall | Have any Q's been missed? | 20:23 |
| devananda | Kiall: what's the approximate coverage of your API by the proposed tempest tests? | 20:23 |
| sdague | Kiall: I don't think the exercises are actually running there? | 20:23 |
| sdague | devananda: there are not tempest tests | 20:23 |
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| russellb | devananda: that's more of a graduation requirement | 20:23 |
| ttx | sdague: so shall we delay until the devstack job is landed ? | 20:23 |
| devananda | sdague: ah ... that explains why i couldn't find it :) | 20:23 |
| Kiall | devananda: tempest, last I looked, didn't support plugins and won't accept non-incubated project tests | 20:23 |
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| Kiall | One of the HP QA guy's has offered to implement tests once they will be accepted. | 20:24 |
| sdague | ttx: we vote offline now right? I'll just put my -1 until we get the job landed | 20:24 |
| ttx | sdague: ok | 20:24 |
| sdague | from what I see, it's all basically there | 20:24 |
| sdague | just want all the parts to come together | 20:24 |
| ttx | OK, let's switch to the program discussion | 20:24 |
| Kiall | sdague: the exercises are ran, search for "designate domain-create" in the logs. | 20:24 |
| ttx | I support the creation of a separate program, personally | 20:24 |
| Kiall | console logs* | 20:24 |
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| russellb | ttx: same here | 20:24 |
| jeblair | ttx: +1 | 20:24 |
| ttx | since I don't see overlap with the networking/neutron crew | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 20:25 |
| ttx | no point in forcing them to live under the same roof and delegate decisions to neutron PTL | 20:25 |
| russellb | neutron has enough to deal with right now, too | 20:25 |
| ttx | Any other questions on the Designate topic ? | 20:25 |
| anteaya | neutron doesn't need more meetings | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | heh | 20:25 |
| Kiall | ttx: Agreed, merging of the two teams seems unlikely to succeed in the near team | 20:25 |
| Kiall | term* | 20:25 |
| sdague | ttx +1 | 20:26 |
| Kiall | And - I don't personally believe there is scope overlap between Designate and Neutron. | 20:26 |
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| devananda | ttx: +1 | 20:26 |
| jeblair | Kiall: i agree with that as well | 20:26 |
| russellb | was anyone arguing the opposite? | 20:26 |
| zaneb | the closest thing to Designate in OpenStack is actually the Keystone catalog, not Neutron | 20:26 |
| ttx | If no more questions - the concile will retreat and vote on gerrit. Expect white smoke soon | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | russellb: there was a brief discussion on the ML | 20:26 |
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| russellb | dhellmann: OK | 20:26 |
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| sdague | honestly, after thinking about it more, I actually think one of the neutron challenges might be that there is too much in that one program. | 20:26 |
| russellb | sdague: +1 | 20:27 |
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| ttx | sdague: +1 | 20:27 |
| markmcclain | The scope creep is that designate and neutron have L7 services | 20:27 |
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| ttx | isn't trove also L7 ? | 20:27 |
| sdague | personally I think designate fits a very sizable hole that we've had for a long time, and am happy to see it coming forward | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | maybe we should address that by restricting the layers that are part of neutron's scope through a change to the mission statement? | 20:27 |
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| zaneb | sdague: +1 | 20:28 |
| barclaac | dhellmann: +1 | 20:28 |
| jeblair | sdague: it's the last thing the infra team is using proprietary apis for | 20:28 |
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| markmcclain | sdague: the idea has been floated spinning out a few services once the internal apis are fixed | 20:28 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on | 20:28 |
| ttx | Let the final discussion happen on the review | 20:29 |
| Kiall | Thanks all :) | 20:29 |
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| ttx | #topic Election stats and review discussion | 20:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Election stats and review discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:29 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-May/000678.html | 20:29 |
| ttx | anteaya: want to introduce the topic ? | 20:29 |
| anteaya | sure | 20:29 |
| anteaya | there are a few more links as well | 20:29 |
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| russellb | +1 to writing down some general policy and guidance about this | 20:29 |
| ttx | I'll post them | 20:29 |
| anteaya | thanks | 20:29 |
| anteaya | the first is the numbers etherpad | 20:30 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/electoral-discussion-May-2014-numbers | 20:30 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/electoral-discussion-May-2014-email-summary | 20:30 |
| anteaya | it has the history of all of our elections | 20:30 |
| anteaya | you can see the ptl elections are healthy with 43% or better participation | 20:30 |
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| anteaya | the tc elections need some examination | 20:30 |
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| anteaya | we were at 33% and we are dropping | 20:31 |
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| anteaya | 29.7% last tc election | 20:31 |
| ttx | I disagree wit hno election on Sept 2012 | 20:31 |
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| anteaya | we need a strong participation rate | 20:31 |
| * ttx digs data | 20:31 | |
| anteaya | ttx: great, I got that from the wikilinks | 20:31 |
| eglynn | BTW it's hard to quantify the effect on average turnout of the uncontested PTL elections | 20:31 |
| anteaya | please do update | 20:31 |
| anteaya | eglynn: I didn't try | 20:31 |
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| anteaya | any comments on the numbers? | 20:32 |
| jeblair | anteaya: though as you point out, the absolute numbers are increasing | 20:32 |
| russellb | i wonder how well the ATC community understands the role and ongoing activities of the TC? | 20:32 |
| anteaya | have I made any errors? | 20:32 |
| markwash | eglynn: +1 | 20:32 |
| markmc | agree the low turnout for TC election is concerning | 20:32 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: yes, they are | 20:32 |
| russellb | if people don't really understand what we do, they're certainly not going to care enough to vote | 20:32 |
| markmcclain | I think that with a little targeted marketing we could increase turnout | 20:32 |
| anteaya | russellb: good point, I have no data on this | 20:32 |
| ttx | TC Sept 2012 election = http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_019fda1f0dd037a2 | 20:32 |
| markmc | russellb, or perhaps understand our role, but don't think it's important | 20:32 |
| devananda | anteaya: any data on how the voter turnout % compares to the % of contributors who have done only one patch? | 20:32 |
| ttx | 52% | 20:32 |
| anteaya | ttx, thank you, I will add after the discussion | 20:33 |
| russellb | markmc: yes or that | 20:33 |
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| zaneb | I don't see the turnout as a problem with the election, but as a problem with how the TC is perceived in the community, like russellb said | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | devananda: good question | 20:33 |
| anteaya | devananda: I don't have those numbers, but with fungi's help can try to get something next week | 20:33 |
| markmc | zaneb, curious; based on what? gut instinct? anecdotes? own opinion? | 20:33 |
| russellb | we could probably do better with communicating the topics we're working through more broadly | 20:33 |
| russellb | mine is gut instint | 20:34 |
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| zaneb | I attend the TC meetings, so *I* know what is going on, but I've never seen e.g. an announcement of something that was decided by the TC | 20:34 |
| zaneb | ever | 20:34 |
| markmcclain | I think we engage foundation staff to help raise awareness... The timing in the cycle means it can get lost in shuffle | 20:34 |
| zaneb | unless I went looking for it | 20:34 |
| ttx | so.. we used to post summaries | 20:34 |
| eglynn | ... anyone else think the staggered terms may be lowering interest/turnout in TC elections? | 20:34 |
| vishy | zaneb, russellb: +1 | 20:34 |
| ttx | minutes of the TC meeting to the openstack ML | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | zaneb: good point, and that's an complaint we had for the board at one point, too | 20:34 |
| anteaya | eglynn: we will get to that next | 20:34 |
| ttx | but since we switched to gerrit, there is no more decisions at the meeting | 20:34 |
| vishy | ttx: something less formal than minutes might be better | 20:34 |
| sdague | zaneb: agreed, summaries would be good | 20:35 |
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| markmc | would blog posts like my board summaries help, I wonder? summary, with some commentary | 20:35 |
| russellb | i think it's more than minutes that's needed ... but an occasional blog about what we've been covering, and why it's important | 20:35 |
| vishy | markmc: +1 | 20:35 |
| devananda | eglynn: I don't feel that the staggered election has any impact on that, but i have no real data on that opinion | 20:35 |
| russellb | markmc: that! | 20:35 |
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| ttx | markmc: that! indeed | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it would still be a good idea to publish decisions after they merge | 20:35 |
| sdague | markmc: yeh, definitely | 20:35 |
| devananda | markmc: ++ | 20:35 |
| anteaya | markmc: I like your blog posts | 20:35 |
| jaypipes | markmc: ++ | 20:35 |
| * ttx delegates markmc | 20:35 | |
| sdague | dhellmann: agreed | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | markmc: +1 | 20:35 |
| markmc | heh | 20:35 |
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| markmc | uh | 20:35 |
| zaneb | in general, people don't know what the TC does, and they don't know who the candidates are outside of their own project | 20:35 |
| markmc | that wasn't me volunteering :) | 20:35 |
| * russellb thinks ttx should :) | 20:35 | |
| russellb | Mr chair | 20:35 |
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| markmc | can give it a shot, though | 20:36 |
| jaypipes | we could do a rotation. I can volunteer to rotate in on the blog posts, if that's ok with folks. | 20:36 |
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| markmc | maybe we could rotate it | 20:36 |
| zaneb | look at the number of ballots where there are only ~5 candidates ranked, for example | 20:36 |
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| dhellmann | should we set up a TC blog for it, so the messages aren't on someone's personal site? | 20:36 |
| jaypipes | markmc: jinx :) | 20:36 |
| russellb | yeah, rotate is fine with me | 20:36 |
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| jaypipes | dhellmann: yup, that works. | 20:36 |
| russellb | in theory there is an openstack blog ... | 20:36 |
| russellb | right? | 20:36 |
| fungi | anteaya: i can imagine a two-dimensional plot of voter turnout vs. commits | 20:36 |
| ttx | dhellmann: or we could post to the openstack blog | 20:36 |
| markmc | russellb, the chair already has a lot to do ... | 20:36 |
| russellb | www.openstack.org/blog/ | 20:36 |
| anteaya | fungi: awesome, thank you | 20:36 |
| russellb | markmc: true | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that works, too | 20:36 |
| zaneb | anteaya: it would be interesting to see stats on how many candidates get ranked on how many ballots | 20:36 |
| jeblair | a blog is fine, but this should also go to the dev list i think | 20:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: that would help giving that post visibility | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: +1 | 20:37 |
| russellb | jeblair: agreed | 20:37 |
| markmc | jeblair, yes | 20:37 |
| anteaya | zaneb: I think that is something ttx likes to do up, when he has the time to do the math | 20:37 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: although we already have problems with people missing messages on the list, so I think we should do both | 20:37 |
| markmcclain | I still don't think that blogging actually fixes the problem... I think that the election itself needs more awareness | 20:37 |
| sdague | zaneb: so is that an issue in the fact that our community is large enough that people have no familiarity beyond their projects? | 20:37 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: wfm | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | is our governance repository being published somewhere as html, yet? | 20:38 |
| ttx | fungi: we'll have to look te details of giving TC members an author account on that wordpress | 20:38 |
| russellb | sdague: that's another thing | 20:38 |
| russellb | but we could address that with some more Q&A stuff in the election | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | markmcclain: how would you address that? | 20:38 |
| SlickNik | sdague: I think you're onto another reason here. | 20:38 |
| sdague | it's time for our openstack foreign exchange program | 20:38 |
| ttx | anteaya: I'll redo my analysis soon | 20:38 |
| anteaya | I'm open to that | 20:38 |
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| ttx | OK so... actions | 20:38 |
| anteaya | ttx great, it will be an awesome blog post | 20:38 |
| markmc | how about an election debate? | 20:38 |
| fungi | ttx: yeah, i'm not real familiar with how it's currently configured | 20:38 |
| sdague | dhellmann: it's not yet being published | 20:39 |
| russellb | markmc: yeah, pretty much | 20:39 |
| ttx | #action ttx to redo election analysis for last round | 20:39 |
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| russellb | markmc: or at least a bit more prompting of candidates to dig into key issues | 20:39 |
| markmc | more than just our election platforms | 20:39 |
| markmc | but make us debate some difficult issues | 20:39 |
| zaneb | sdague: it's an issue if the projects are becoming siloed and nobody ever hears anything from outside their own project, and in particular from the TC | 20:39 |
| ttx | #action ttx/fungi to sort out publication of TC blogposts to www.o.o | 20:39 |
| anteaya | markmc: I like the idea of a debate | 20:39 |
| markmc | ask people to submit questions | 20:39 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:39 |
| ttx | #action TC members to rotate writing blogposts reporting on TC decisions | 20:39 |
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| mikal | anteaya: I kind of don't | 20:40 |
| anteaya | mikal: okay, why? | 20:40 |
| mikal | anteaya: it seems too confrontational for a body that attempts concensus | 20:40 |
| anteaya | fair enough | 20:40 |
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| sdague | yeh, I have the same concerns as mikal on that | 20:40 |
| devananda | anteaya: it also presumes that we disagree on things, which often, we dont | 20:40 |
| mikal | anteaya: I know its playing with words, but I think a panel works better for us | 20:40 |
| anteaya | but isn't that based on the style it is moderated? | 20:40 |
| markmc | mikal, stuff needs to be debated to reach consensus | 20:40 |
| mikal | anteaya: and we've done at least two of those in the past | 20:40 |
| fungi | also debates are better geared toward small numbers of candidates in an election | 20:40 |
| markmcclain | dhellman: I think we can target atcs w candidate profiles and look into ways to remind folks who haven't cast ballots | 20:40 |
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| russellb | i think we should expect and require a more in depth post than just "i want to run for the TC and ... well you all know me so thanks!" | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | I do like the idea of having some questions to address in nomination messages. | 20:41 |
| anteaya | mikal: oh have we? this I didn't know | 20:41 |
| mikal | anteaya: the last two summits at the least | 20:41 |
| anteaya | mikal: how can I access the history | 20:41 |
| SlickNik | russellb: +1 | 20:41 |
| anteaya | a debate at teh summits? | 20:41 |
| mikal | anteaya: I don't think they were recorded, although perhaps HK was | 20:41 |
| devananda | what about a curated list of community-submitted questions, geared to give the projects' members a way to express their concerns for cross-project issues and find out the candidate's views? | 20:41 |
| sdague | anteaya: the panel at the summit | 20:41 |
| mikal | anteaya: a "meet the TC" panel discussion | 20:41 |
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| russellb | panel isn't really related to the election ... | 20:41 |
| anteaya | yes, yes the panel | 20:41 |
| markmc | yeah, HK panel was recorded | 20:41 |
| ttx | I think one of the reasons why there isn't so much debate is that the TC election happens at a busy time | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | mikal: I didn't really view that as a debate, though | 20:41 |
| SlickNik | devananda: I like that. | 20:41 |
| anteaya | I think the panel was great | 20:41 |
| mikal | dhellmann: sure... I'm mooting that its better than a debate, not a debate itself | 20:42 |
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| SlickNik | devananda: Perhaps summaries of the answers can form part of the candidates' platform? | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | devananda: +1 | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | mikal: ah, I misread | 20:42 |
| ttx | anteaya: how about, at hte same time we do self-nominations of candidates, people can post questions that every candidate will have to answer ? | 20:42 |
| * jaypipes doesn't remember seeing any posts with "well you all kow me, so thanks..." | 20:42 | |
| anteaya | mikal: but it doesn't give voice for people not on the tc | 20:42 |
| mikal | I do think more depth in nomination emails is a good idea | 20:42 |
| russellb | ttx: with some reasonable limit | 20:43 |
| mikal | Or at least _some_ discussion in their threads after annuncement | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I like having everyone post, and someone curating | 20:43 |
| ttx | russellb: sure - election officials can make a final list of questions | 20:43 |
| russellb | wfm | 20:43 |
| anteaya | ttx yes something like that, but I picture me chasing folks for answers | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: were there other issues related to elections you wanted to raise? | 20:43 |
| devananda | ttx: ++ | 20:43 |
| anteaya | so I would like something real time | 20:43 |
| ttx | that will trigger interest and participatio | 20:43 |
| anteaya | so there is an end | 20:43 |
| mikal | anteaya: no, you don't chase -- you just mark them as not responsive | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: it would be up to candidates to respond in their nomination email, right? | 20:43 |
| jeblair | anteaya: if people don't answer, it will look bad and hopefully they will not receive as many votes | 20:43 |
| russellb | i think we've identified some good ideas to run with, should we jump to other parts of this topic? | 20:43 |
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| anteaya | dhellmann: yes | 20:44 |
| ttx | #action election officials to call for questions at the same time they call for self-nominations, and curate a list of questions candidates will answer | 20:44 |
| anteaya | other parts | 20:44 |
| jeblair | i think there's some timing logistics there to work out, but we can figure it out later | 20:44 |
| anteaya | let's look at the email summary: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/electoral-discussion-May-2014-email-summary | 20:44 |
| russellb | jeblair: agreed | 20:44 |
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| anteaya | let's start with item two | 20:44 |
| anteaya | needed some messaging around campaigning | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | line 70 | 20:45 |
| anteaya | since we seem to have some ideas for item one so far | 20:45 |
| markmc | anteaya, when you say messaging, you mean some sort of code of conduct right ? | 20:45 |
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| anteaya | markmc: sure that is a good term | 20:45 |
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| markmc | i.e. how we expect people to campaign | 20:45 |
| anteaya | expectations of behaviour | 20:45 |
| anteaya | yes exactly | 20:45 |
| markmc | (was just confused at first, "we need more messaging" == "we need more campaigning") | 20:45 |
| anteaya | there were some questions I couldn't answer this last election | 20:45 |
| ttx | I think recommending campaigning in the open is a good idea | 20:46 |
| jeblair | (though we do have a code of conduct, so that could be confusing http://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ ) | 20:46 |
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| anteaya | and some people didn't know if they should report things or not, so nothing got reported | 20:46 |
| anteaya | folks, including me, should know what is expected | 20:46 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i think all of your suggestions are in the spirit of the code of conduct, which is nice. i think they are good suggestions. | 20:46 |
| markmcclain | It should be open methods which is not covered by code | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | jeblair, anteaya : +1 | 20:46 |
| markmc | yeah, a code should include how to deal with reports of abuse | 20:47 |
| jeblair | note the code of conduct does mention elections specifically in at least one point: | 20:47 |
| jeblair | Respect the election process. Members should not attempt to manipulate election results. Open debate is welcome, but vote trading, ballot stuffing and other forms of abuse are not acceptable. | 20:47 |
| ttx | anteaya: how about you draft a election expectations of behavior, and propose it as a resolution on gerrit ? | 20:47 |
| sdague | do we just want to expand the repect elections part of code of conduct? | 20:47 |
| ttx | we can iterate on wording there | 20:47 |
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| anteaya | markmc: thank you, yes, that is what this is aiming for | 20:47 |
| anteaya | ttx I can do that | 20:47 |
| anteaya | what directory? | 20:47 |
| jeblair | i believe CoC violations are grounds for termination of membership status which means no voting or running in elections | 20:48 |
| ttx | #action anteaya to propose a resolution on election expectations of behavior | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | sdague: the existing code of conduct appears to be an appendix of the bylaws; would we need the board to change that? | 20:48 |
| markmc | changing http://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ will mean a wider debate | 20:48 |
| markmc | since it applies to board of director elections | 20:48 |
| markmc | slightly different values may apply? | 20:48 |
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| markmc | (debatable) | 20:48 |
| sdague | ok, fair | 20:48 |
| ttx | anteaya: that would end under resolutions/ in the governance repo | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | right, I think we can start with some focus on the PTL and TC elections and possibly move it to the CoC later | 20:48 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I didn't know that was there, so perhaps I am failing in my role as election official | 20:48 |
| sdague | dhellmann: sounds reasonable | 20:48 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: that sounds like a good strategy | 20:48 |
| russellb | +1 | 20:48 |
| russellb | dhellmann: ^ | 20:49 |
| anteaya | ttx I will head for resolutions | 20:49 |
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| ttx | anteaya: I wuld definitely mention the CoC in that "behavior reminder" | 20:49 |
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| dhellmann | +1 | 20:49 |
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| anteaya | great I will mention | 20:49 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on - anything else on that topic ? | 20:49 |
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| anteaya | thanks all | 20:49 |
| ttx | I think we captured a number of actions | 20:49 |
| ttx | anteaya: thanks for raising that topic! | 20:50 |
| russellb | yep, good one | 20:50 |
| ttx | #topic Incubation/Integration requirements | 20:50 |
| * anteaya nods gratefully | 20:50 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubation/Integration requirements (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:50 | |
| ttx | * Add Ceilometer requirements (https://review.openstack.org/85978) | 20:50 |
| ttx | looks like we have a winner here | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | \o/ | 20:51 |
| * ttx +2s | 20:51 | |
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| ttx | * add upgrade expectations (https://review.openstack.org/87234) | 20:52 |
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| jeblair | we've been beating on this for a while | 20:53 |
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| sdague | heh, so we actually tried to go folksy with examples intentionaly | 20:53 |
| ttx | there is a -1 from russellb ... sdague do you stand by your current version, or plan to address them ? | 20:53 |
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| ttx | Since this change affects the consensual reqiurements, we need consensus on that one | 20:54 |
| sdague | ttx: I think there are some nits from eglynn that are fixable, but I really don't think spinning back around to writing code in english for our test conditions is a good tact | 20:54 |
| sdague | that was actually what we were trying to get away from | 20:54 |
| devananda | russellb: as I read that section (within points in master) it would be fine for a project to require a series of upgrades | 20:54 |
| ttx | (this document reflects the basic requirements we all agree on, everything else is covered by our vote) | 20:54 |
| russellb | devananda: fair point | 20:54 |
| russellb | let's just follow up on gerrit | 20:54 |
| sdague | the commits in master are in master where people do assume it's newer than stable branch | 20:54 |
| ttx | OK, i'll approve when it gets 7+ +1s and has no more -1s | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Housekeeping changes | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:55 | |
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| ttx | A little ton of trivial changes which I'll directly approve asap | 20:56 |
| ttx | * Add project mission statement for Ceilometer (https://review.openstack.org/87526) | 20:56 |
| ttx | being the only exception I think | 20:56 |
| ttx | but that one has enough +1s | 20:57 |
| ttx | the others are: | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add cinder-specs to block storage program (https://review.openstack.org/95893) | 20:57 |
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| ttx | * Add swift-specs to object storage program (https://review.openstack.org/95895) | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add sahara-specs to data processing program (https://review.openstack.org/95897) | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add keystone-specs to identity program (https://review.openstack.org/95891) | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add ceilometer-specs to telemetry program (https://review.openstack.org/95890) | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add ironic-specs to bare metal program (https://review.openstack.org/95892) | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add glance-specs to image service program (https://review.openstack.org/95898) | 20:57 |
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| ttx | * Add tripleo-specs to tripleo program (https://review.openstack.org/95888) | 20:58 |
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| ttx | * Add heat-specs to orchestration program (https://review.openstack.org/95889) | 20:58 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:58 | |
| ttx | mordred: I don't think you worked on the draft binary proposal for the "TC direction" column scores ? | 20:58 |
| devananda | I'm glad to see concensus on the ceilometer mission statement -- thanks to eglynn and jogo for discussing that with me several times | 20:58 |
| ttx | in other news I submitted our proposed K names to the cursory name collision review | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | devananda: +1 | 20:58 |
| ttx | I should be able to start the public poll soon | 20:58 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: thanks for making all of those changes and dealing with all those details | 20:58 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:58 |
| markwash | ttx: glance catalog mission should make it to next week right? | 20:58 |
| jeblair | ttx: i will be out next week | 20:58 |
| ttx | markwash: yep, it's on the backlog | 20:59 |
| jeblair | ttx: should i note that in the wiki, send an email to the tc list, and nominate a proxy? | 20:59 |
| ttx | jeblair: am confused. what will be out next week? | 20:59 |
| jeblair | ttx: (i'll be in the wilderness for a week and might miss a vote) | 21:00 |
| ttx | oh. you | 21:00 |
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| jeblair | they don't have gerrit where i'm going | 21:00 |
| ttx | jeblair: wiki, + optionally name a proxy | 21:00 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | just a reminder: there's a DefCore meeting tomorrow at 2100 UTC (this exact time), mikal is attending but wanted to advise the TC too. Agneda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreLighthouse.2 | 21:00 |
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| fungi | jeblair: we can totally install a gerrit out there | 21:00 |
| jeblair | i'll make sure to vote on everything pending | 21:00 |
| ttx | jeblair: although proxy less necessary with our gerrit based voting | 21:00 |
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| jeblair | ttx: it's now through the end of next week so if something came up quickly, it could happen | 21:01 |
| ttx | #action mordred still to prepare draft binary proposal for the "TC direction" column scores | 21:01 |
| ttx | OK, time is up | 21:02 |
| ttx | #info DefCore meeting tomorrow at 2100 UTC (this exact time), mikal is attending but wanted to advise the TC too. Agneda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreLighthouse.2 | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| markmc | thanks ttx | 21:02 |
| * zehicle_at_dell thanks ttx | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 21:02:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-03-20.03.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-03-20.03.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-03-20.03.log.html | 21:02 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, kmestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ? | 21:02 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:02 |
| zaneb | o/ | 21:02 |
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| notmyname | here | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| SlickNik | o/ | 21:02 |
| devananda | o/ | 21:02 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 21:02 |
| mikal | Hi | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:03 |
| mrunge | o/ /me instead of david-lyle | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 21:03:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:03 |
| ttx | Agenda @ | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:04 |
| ttx | Due to travel we couldn't have 1:1s today, so if you have news you can shout them now | 21:04 |
| ttx | notmyname: how is the storage policies merging going so far ? | 21:04 |
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| notmyname | ttx: really well. in fact I'm sitting in a room with a bunch of devs after having just done a 2-hour overview with the code on the screen. still probably a week or so left to get it merged, but great progress so far | 21:05 |
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| notmyname | (and really cool development today, swift will probably have two-dimentional time!) | 21:05 |
| mikal | notmyname: ?!? | 21:06 |
| ttx | ? | 21:06 |
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| zaneb | I definitely want to hear more about that :D | 21:06 |
| notmyname | heh. ask me later. just a cool way to represent progress in the system without changing what the client sees as timestamps :-) | 21:06 |
| ttx | notmyname: ok, teasing I see | 21:06 |
| notmyname | not really important for this meeting :-) | 21:06 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, [sahara] I think we're going to start -specs pilot for selected bps at the end of week | 21:07 |
| SlickNik | two dimensional time? I'm intrigued :) | 21:07 |
| mikal | I'm still struggling with the linear flow of time I experience day to day | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | mikal: in 2 dimensional time, you can go around meetings | 21:07 |
| ttx | #info [sahara] to start -specs pilot for selected bps at the end of week | 21:07 |
| mikal | dhellmann: omg, that would be awesome | 21:07 |
| * ttx uses 3D time. With glasses | 21:07 | |
| dhellmann | mikal: I know! | 21:07 |
| ttx | notmyname: looks like a blogpost is in order | 21:08 |
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| mikal | ttx: nova is chasing juno-1, and de-ephasising specs approvals to focus reviewers on juno-1. We're also having a bug day today or tomorrow depending on your timezone. | 21:08 |
| ttx | ok, that brings us to... | 21:08 |
| ttx | #topic Juno-1 plans | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno-1 plans (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:08 | |
| ttx | I looked up the juno-1 plans for all the projects tagging the milestone next week | 21:08 |
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| ttx | ceilometer, keystone, neutron, nova, sahara, trove plans all look good | 21:08 |
| mikal | ttx: also, johnthetubaguy has done a really good job of shunting stuff to juno-2 that wont make it into juno-1 | 21:08 |
| ttx | heat, oslo, horizon may need a bit of polish/cleanup | 21:08 |
| ttx | but overall plans look good | 21:08 |
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| ttx | I'll be in touch with you all over next week | 21:08 |
| mikal | ttx: do you have advice on producing release notes? | 21:09 |
| ttx | as we refine the juno-1 plans (tag due next week) | 21:09 |
| mikal | ttx: should I be writing them progressively over the release? | 21:09 |
| ttx | mikal: people usually do them at the very end, but i can only encourage frontloading | 21:09 |
| mikal | ttx: i.e. should they be part of the juno-1 milestone? | 21:09 |
| eglynn | relnotes are only for the final 2014.2 tag right? | 21:09 |
| eglynn | ... i.e. not per-milestone, or? | 21:09 |
| ttx | eglynn: yes, final only | 21:09 |
| mikal | eglynn: sure, but how to you remember 6 months of work? | 21:09 |
| mikal | s/to/do/ | 21:09 |
| eglynn | mikal: fair point :) | 21:10 |
| zaneb | ttx: I did some tidying earlier today, not sure if you looked since then | 21:10 |
| ttx | zaneb: depends on your definition of earlier | 21:10 |
| zaneb | I forget what time | 21:10 |
| ttx | there were a few undefined/nuassigned last time I looked | 21:10 |
| eglynn | mikal: let LP remember for you ... no, actually, scratch that thought ;) | 21:10 |
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| ttx | I'll also reach out to decide if we are ready to enable the auto-kick-unprioritized-bps script | 21:10 |
| * dhellman_ may be the victim of a netsplit | 21:10 | |
| mikal | eglynn: I just don't want to have to read 2,500 commit messages in a big rush later | 21:11 |
| zaneb | ttx: I think there are maybe 2 undefined ones left | 21:11 |
| mikal | So any advice welcome | 21:11 |
| ttx | (for the projects using -specs) | 21:11 |
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| ttx | #topic Other program news | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other program news (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:12 | |
| ttx | Infra, QA, Docs... anything you'd like to mention ? | 21:12 |
| dhellman_ | I have a couple of things for oslo | 21:12 |
| mtreinish | well I forgot to mention we pushed the first tag for branchless tempest last week | 21:12 |
| mtreinish | not that special though | 21:12 |
| ttx | dhellman_: sure, you cane #info them yourself | 21:12 |
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| ttx | #info branchless tempest is now a thing | 21:13 |
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| dhellman_ | #info Please remember as you set your priorities that the rpc code in the incubator will be removed at the end of this cycle, so reviews for work on oslo.messaging adoption should get some love. :-) | 21:13 |
| dhellman_ | I think only heat, neutron, and trove are left. | 21:13 |
| dhellman_ | also, I'm not seeing the participation I was hoping for from Oslo liaisons. Please remind your liaisons to attend the weekly oslo meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 21:13 |
| dhellman_ | It's not like I'm calling roll, but I'm not hearing from many of them. | 21:14 |
| mtreinish | ttx: heh, well it was already a thing because we didn't make an icehouse branch at the release | 21:14 |
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| mikal | dhellman_: also, log message hinting needs to not be forgotten, right? | 21:14 |
| eglynn | mtreinish: guidance on the policy around skipping selected Juno tests against stable/icehouse would be welcome | 21:14 |
| dhellman_ | mikal: yes, I have a todo to write up some instructions as part of the oslo.i18n release | 21:14 |
| ttx | mikal: about release notes - ideally we would autogenerate most of them from a specs blurb or some commit message parts -- but it's non-trivial to fetch those back | 21:14 |
| SlickNik | dhellman_: Thanks for the heads up. Will follow up on it. | 21:14 |
| dhellman_ | mikal: assuming you mean translation? | 21:15 |
| mikal | ttx: do we only include landed bps in release notes? Not important bug fixes? | 21:15 |
| mtreinish | eglynn: guidance in what format? | 21:15 |
| mestery | dhellman_: We're working on the oslo.messaging port in neutron right now. | 21:15 |
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| mikal | dhellman_: yeah | 21:15 |
| ttx | #oslo not seeing the participation I was hoping for from Oslo liaisons. Please remind your liaisons to attend the weekly oslo meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 21:15 |
| dhellman_ | mestery: excellent | 21:15 |
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| ttx | #info oslo not seeing the participation I was hoping for from Oslo liaisons. Please remind your liaisons to attend the weekly oslo meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 21:15 |
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| eglynn | mtreinish: just in English is fine :) | 21:15 |
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| jogo | ohh oslo meetings almost forgot | 21:16 |
| dhellman_ | mikal: my goal is to have oslo.i18n ready for J1, and to include all of the guidelines in the docs | 21:16 |
| ttx | mikal: we include "major features" | 21:16 |
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| eglynn | mtreinish: (... since I thought the discoverable API-driven approach was the initially agreed approach last week, but seems that config driven option has made a re-appearance?) | 21:16 |
| mikal | ttx: ok | 21:16 |
| ttx | mikal: it's that editorial part (the selection of what is major) that takes time | 21:16 |
| ttx | OK, I think we can safely switch to... | 21:17 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:17 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:17 |
| dolphm | yes... | 21:17 |
| mtreinish | eglynn: it needs both. the discoverable api is for end users (and config generation and verification in tempest). But from the tempest side it still needs to be a config flag | 21:17 |
| dolphm | regarding the auto-kick-unprioritized-bps script... that's a one time thing per project, run? | 21:17 |
| ttx | mikal, mestery: wanted to ask you if you didn't end up with twice as many reviews to do with the whole -specs thing | 21:17 |
| ttx | dolphm: it would run regularly. The current script runs every 2 hours | 21:18 |
| mikal | ttx: could you rephrase the question please? | 21:18 |
| mestery | ttx: It's true it has increased the review load, but it's helped as well because it's gotten discussions going earlier on some items. | 21:18 |
| mestery | ttx: And having one place to go for people to participate and see other's comments is also very nice. | 21:18 |
| eglynn | mtreinish: k, we can take the discussion off-line for later/tmrw (... prolly not relevant to the rest of this meeting) | 21:18 |
| dolphm | ttx: so what does it mean to kick them? mark as obsolete or something? | 21:18 |
| mikal | I don't see evidence that its reduced the load on nova reviewers | 21:18 |
| mikal | We do have a lot of specs reviews open | 21:18 |
| ttx | mikal: I think there is general agreement tat specs is a good thing... just want early feedback on the additional work it generates, if any | 21:18 |
| mikal | So people doing those are pretty busy | 21:18 |
| mikal | ttx: ahh, I see | 21:18 |
| mtreinish | eglynn: fair enough :). I'll write up something in the tempest developer docs for this too | 21:18 |
| mikal | I think its worth it | 21:19 |
| dhellman_ | dolphm: I think to just unset the target release | 21:19 |
| mestery | I think the additional work it generates is worth it as well. | 21:19 |
| mikal | There's definitely code we're -2'ing until we get a spec | 21:19 |
| eglynn | mtreinish: cool, thanks! | 21:19 |
| mikal | Which I think means we're landing better designed code | 21:19 |
| dolphm | dhellman_: ah, thanks | 21:19 |
| mikal | We're still pretty badly behind on reviews though (around 500 open last I looked) | 21:19 |
| ttx | dolphm: that leans clearing the milestone target field | 21:19 |
| ttx | means* | 21:19 |
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| dolphm | i'd like a script that kept *code* reviews referencing un-approved blueprints/specs to be maintained as Work In Progress automatically :) | 21:19 |
| dhellman_ | ttx: milestone or series? | 21:20 |
| dhellman_ | dolphm: +1 | 21:20 |
| SlickNik | dolphm: ++ | 21:20 |
| ttx | dhellman_: milestone. The series is autoadjusted to match the milestone (damn LP) | 21:20 |
| ttx | dolphm: I think mikal has something | 21:20 |
| dolphm | mikal: ooh? | 21:20 |
| dhellman_ | ttx: ok, I just removed a bunch of blueprints with juno as the series but without specs (I only had a few, so I did them by hand) | 21:20 |
| mikal | dolphm: we're doing that manually | 21:21 |
| dolphm | mikal: same here | 21:21 |
| mikal | Well, I have a script, but then I do a lot of hand checking | 21:21 |
| dolphm | mikal: link? | 21:21 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy might have something better | 21:21 |
| ttx | dhellman_: you shouldn't care about the series -- the script maes sure it stays coherent with the milestone (since Lp doesn't) | 21:21 |
| ttx | makes*ù | 21:21 |
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| dhellman_ | ttx: ok, I was using the series for planning | 21:21 |
| dhellman_ | before the summit | 21:21 |
| mikal | dolphm: to my script? Let's talk about that in PM, its tied up in a bigger, not very general script for my personal code reviews | 21:22 |
| dolphm | mikal: ack | 21:22 |
| ttx | dhellman_: the problem is it can get out of sync with the milestone | 21:22 |
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| dhellman_ | ttx: both are blank now, so they're in sync :-) | 21:22 |
| ttx | dhellman_: so we use "priority" and "milestone target" only | 21:22 |
| dhellman_ | ok | 21:22 |
| ttx | series is autoadjusted (with the current script) | 21:22 |
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| ttx | the new script will additionally makes sure only prioritized stuff can be listed in a milestone, effectively restricting that "blessing" task to project drivers | 21:23 |
| dhellman_ | I now have a bunch of prioritized bps without milestones, so I guess I need to set those? | 21:23 |
| ttx | script leaves a gentle comment in the whiteboard when it kicks things out of milestones | 21:23 |
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| ttx | dhellman_: yes, ideally. You can use the future/next things | 21:24 |
| dhellman_ | ttx: ok | 21:24 |
| ttx | if that's not juno material | 21:24 |
| ttx | anything else before we close ? | 21:25 |
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| ttx | I guess that's a no | 21:26 |
| ttx | Talk to you all later! | 21:26 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:26 | |
| dhellman_ | thanks! | 21:26 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 21:26:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-03-21.03.html | 21:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-03-21.03.txt | 21:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-03-21.03.log.html | 21:26 |
| mestery | Thanks! | 21:26 |
| * dolphm salute | 21:26 | |
| SlickNik | Thanks ttx | 21:26 |
| eglynn | thanks and good night! | 21:26 |
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| SlickNik | g'night eglynn | 21:26 |
| mrunge | thanks and good night to you all | 21:26 |
| sdague | dolphm: so instead of writing custom scripts for that, it seems like a feature you should bring into zuul | 21:27 |
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| dolphm | sdague: ++ let me play around with the workflow a bit, but i'm definitely thinking in that direction as well | 21:28 |
| fungi | sdague: i'm not sure zuul is the right place for that, but some sort of infra system anyway | 21:28 |
| sdague | fungi: sure | 21:28 |
| fungi | it could certainly be a periodic zuul job *triggered* by patchset uploads, though i wouldn't count that as being in zuul itself | 21:29 |
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| fungi | s/job/job or/ | 21:29 |
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