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| * annegentle waves | 14:00 | |
| * AJaeger waves | 14:00 | |
| annegentle | Shall we start the doc team meeting? | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| annegentle | #startmeeting docteam | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 23 14:00:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 14:00 |
| *** Sam-I-Am has joined #openstack-meeting | 14:00 | |
| Sam-I-Am | howdy | 14:00 |
| gpocentek | hello | 14:00 |
| annegentle | Agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:00 |
| fifieldt | hi | 14:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | a tom appear | 14:01 |
| annegentle | hey fifieldt Sam-I-Am gpocentek AJaeger! | 14:01 |
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| annegentle | #topic Action items from last meeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:01 | |
| annegentle | Summer used action for topic last meeting it looks like | 14:01 |
| annegentle | I finished this one: annegentle write blog post linking to OpenStack Documentation Contributions survey | 14:02 |
| annegentle | #link http://justwriteclick.com/2014/04/10/tearing-down-obstacles-to-openstack-documentation-contributions/ | 14:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | how's the feedback on that? | 14:02 |
| annegentle | it could use more tweets, I'll keep it open until the Summit (or a few days before to give me time to make nice graphs) | 14:02 |
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| annegentle | we're at 32 responses | 14:03 |
| Sam-I-Am | is that about what you were expecting? | 14:04 |
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| annegentle | I was hoping for more... it's interesting. | 14:06 |
| annegentle | 1/3 don't have an XML setup, just under 1/3 don't have gerrit | 14:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | any other ways to get more responses? | 14:06 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i'm sure you have it figured out :P | 14:06 |
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| annegentle | I'd really appreciate the doc team using G+ and Twitter to get the word out further, but yeah I've done the newsletter twice, blog post to planet, and included it in What's up Doc | 14:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | i dont really have a following of openstack folks in g+ | 14:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | and... not on twitter | 14:07 |
| annegentle | The other action was: Ajaeger1 to send backport script to openstack-docs mailing list and it's done, thanks AJaeger | 14:07 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yeah fair for the amount of time you've been in the community :) | 14:07 |
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| Sam-I-Am | maybe that'll get fixed during the summit! | 14:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | not too many people know me outside of the docs team | 14:08 |
| annegentle | if we had 150 contributors to docs, that's a good return on the survey, but it'd be nice to get non-contributors to respond as well | 14:08 |
| annegentle | and I do think the responses are not just from us the docs team, so that's good, just want more data | 14:08 |
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| annegentle | #topic Icehouse release | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse release (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:08 | |
| annegentle | I feel so good about the Icehouse release thanks to everyone's hard work. and that we didn't have to lock to stable yet | 14:09 |
| *** ttrifonov_zZzz is now known as ttrifonov | 14:09 | |
| annegentle | I wanted to take a few minutes to do a post-mortem. Let's start with What went well? | 14:09 |
| fifieldt | install guide :) | 14:09 |
| AJaeger | +1 | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | +1 | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | wait, -1!!! | 14:10 |
| annegentle | Yes! | 14:10 |
| annegentle | CLI Ref was amazingly smoothly executed | 14:10 |
| fifieldt | +1 | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | also good | 14:10 |
| annegentle | and the config ref took a ton of work but the results are great | 14:10 |
| fifieldt | +1 | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | fifieldt: that's more +1s than i've ever seen you give :) | 14:10 |
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| fifieldt | +0 | 14:11 |
| annegentle | What can we improve or not do next release? | 14:11 |
| annegentle | I have to say the Ops Guide felt like a bit of a distraction | 14:11 |
| gpocentek | the config ref can still be improved | 14:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | the install guide needs some structural/appearance help in most chapters | 14:11 |
| gpocentek | there's been lots of work on the ops guide before the release | 14:11 |
| fifieldt | how do people feel about the api side of things? | 14:12 |
| annegentle | gpocentek: yes on the config ref, for you that may have been a lowlight since it was a tough road | 14:12 |
| dianefleming | in terms of process improvements, we need a way to ensure editorial reviews without distracting from technical updates | 14:12 |
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| AJaeger | fifieldt, Diane does a great job there - but it's mainly her | 14:12 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: +1 to that | 14:12 |
| gpocentek | dianefleming: +1 | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | indeed, all hail diane | 14:13 |
| dianefleming | thanks !! | 14:13 |
| * fifieldt wishes there was some kind of tooling to assist | 14:13 | |
| annegentle | AJaeger: there was some invisible-to-gerrit editing for the User Guide really close to the release, too | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | because it's a big job | 14:13 |
| dianefleming | but i need to take some time to write up some of the "how-to write API docs" wiki pages | 14:13 |
| annegentle | fifieldt: dianefleming had an idea of two workflows for technical edits and quality edits | 14:13 |
| AJaeger | invisible to gerrit editing? | 14:13 |
| dianefleming | so others know how to contribute | 14:13 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: oh just that our technical editor marked up a PDF and Karin entered the edits. So not quite "invisible" but not inline in gerrit I mean | 14:14 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: though I did edit in gerrit too | 14:14 |
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| dianefleming | yes, my idea was, in gerrit, people vote on technical content, and then we have some sort of flag that indicates that an editorial review is also needed | 14:14 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle, yeah. Figured that one out - Karin's edits are great in general, just was a lot of edits at once | 14:14 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: yeah the API repos came up in the TC meeting yesterday | 14:14 |
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| dianefleming | and then that change gets into another queue | 14:14 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah | 14:14 |
| dianefleming | and has an editorial review - but it wouldn't be necessary for all changes - | 14:15 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: just asking what the plan is for those <project>-api repos | 14:15 |
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| dianefleming | oh! yes - the api repos | 14:15 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: (TC members were asking) | 14:15 |
| dianefleming | my plan is to still move them back to the project repos - | 14:15 |
| dianefleming | once i complete that API guide | 14:15 |
| annegentle | I sense that v3 Compute was a bit of a bug-number-raiser for this release | 14:15 |
| dianefleming | i will make that a priority in next few weeks now that icehouse is going out | 14:15 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: yep that sounds right | 14:15 |
| AJaeger | database-api is moving to trove - see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87807/ | 14:16 |
| annegentle | I also think that continuing to document nova-network and neutron is not great for this release. | 14:16 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yep | 14:16 |
| dianefleming | what do you mean (neutron and nova-network)? | 14:16 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: and we want that for all the projects, it just takes a while | 14:16 |
| dianefleming | in terms of API docs? | 14:16 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: well if neutron was completely feature-finished to replace nova-network, we wouldn't have to keep documenting both | 14:17 |
| AJaeger | and here's a gating patch for trove https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88050/ to work with the move... | 14:17 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: with each release that's the goal but it slips each time, that's all | 14:17 |
| annegentle | ha, "all" -- it's kind of a big deal. But it means our release docs have to reflect reality. | 14:17 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, if you pass this around, give both reviews as example what needs to be done | 14:17 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: good idea | 14:17 |
| dianefleming | i need to think about it a little more - there might be a quicker path than what I've planned - | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | Any other highlights or lowlights for Icehouse? | 14:17 |
| dianefleming | i was waiting to move those repos until I finished other work | 14:17 |
| dianefleming | amazing teamwork | 14:18 |
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| dianefleming | amazing work by Andreas on build gates | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | the install guide was quite the eye-opening project | 14:18 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: definitely | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | +1 | 14:18 |
| annegentle | plus one to AJaeger for alllllllll the build work | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | this is an awesome team | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | love working with y'all | 14:18 |
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| AJaeger | +1 on the awesome team! | 14:19 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: +1! | 14:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | i get home from work and look forward to my 'second job' | 14:19 |
| AJaeger | ;) | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | :) | 14:19 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: that describes me back in 2009 or so, seriously! | 14:20 |
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| annegentle | working on FLOSS Manuals | 14:21 |
| annegentle | anyway | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | you were a dentist? | 14:21 |
| annegentle | heh | 14:21 |
| annegentle | http://en.flossmanuals.net/ | 14:21 |
| annegentle | #topic O'Reilly Ops Guide release | 14:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "O'Reilly Ops Guide release (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:21 | |
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| annegentle | With amazing publishing prowess, O'Reilly will be sending us an epub today or tomorrow for us to post | 14:22 |
| annegentle | I need to write a blog entry for OpenStack.org | 14:22 |
| annegentle | and Tom and I may get a chance to talk to some media about the project | 14:22 |
| fifieldt | yayyy | 14:23 |
| annegentle | There will be copies at the Summit | 14:23 |
| AJaeger | Cool! | 14:23 |
| annegentle | I still am in awe of their publishing power. I literally landed the back cover quote Friday afternoon and it's going to be printed this week. GEEZ | 14:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | woohoo | 14:23 |
| annegentle | Any questions on it? Launch plan seems solid and the Foundation is happy to launch this! | 14:24 |
| AJaeger | Any special guidelines for doing work and approving it going forward? | 14:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: good question, I have a question in about when they are landing the index entries for me to backport | 14:25 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: so that backport will make the source look much much different | 14:25 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: due to all the index entries | 14:25 |
| AJaeger | we can "freeze" the tree a bit to get the index in... | 14:25 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: but even once those are in, reviews are the same | 14:25 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah there's not a ton of activity on it and I've been watching like a hawk | 14:25 |
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| * AJaeger tries to add you to reviews ;) | 14:26 | |
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| annegentle | though the poor sheepdog contributor who wants his listed but the cinder folks just don't think it's tested enough... anyway | 14:26 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: :) | 14:26 |
| sld | I've been doing more reviews for what little that is worth... I can try and do more of those, myself. ;-) | 14:26 |
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| fifieldt | that's been helpful sld | 14:26 |
| annegentle | sld: awesome and super helpful | 14:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | more reviewers = good | 14:27 |
| sld | heh. | 14:27 |
| annegentle | fo sho. | 14:27 |
| fifieldt | specially tech reviews | 14:27 |
| annegentle | #topic Doc contribution survey - please post everywhere | 14:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc contribution survey - please post everywhere (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:27 | |
| annegentle | heh I already talked about that | 14:27 |
| annegentle | moving on | 14:27 |
| annegentle | #topic Doc tools news | 14:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools news (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:27 | |
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| annegentle | I noticed this week that the api-site wasn't building what I thought should be built on draft-docs.openstack so AJaeger is already addressing | 14:28 |
| annegentle | thanks AJaeger -- anything else to add? | 14:28 |
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| annegentle | oh and dianefleming has requested a new release of the clouddocs-maven-plugin | 14:28 |
| annegentle | that'll get us the PDF links for the API references | 14:28 |
| dianefleming | yes, just for api-site | 14:28 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, gpocentek is constantly improving the autohelp part ;) | 14:28 |
| annegentle | nice! high5 gpocentek! | 14:29 |
| gpocentek | :) | 14:29 |
| AJaeger | otherwise tools work just fine... | 14:29 |
| fifieldt | so many awesome people | 14:29 |
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| annegentle | yes we won't update the version for openstack-manuals pom.xml files | 14:29 |
| annegentle | just for api-site pom.xml | 14:29 |
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| annegentle | Any questions on doc tools? | 14:30 |
| * annegentle pauses to think for a moment | 14:30 | |
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| annegentle | seems like translations are all tidy and sorted, right? | 14:30 |
| sld | oooo question about that.... | 14:31 |
| annegentle | oh and in that blog post I linked to above, please take a look at the requirements listing for our doc tools | 14:31 |
| sld | is there any way to have those auto-approve themselves? | 14:31 |
| annegentle | sld: oh good question. I think some projects have gate tests that allow that? AJaeger do you know? | 14:31 |
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| fifieldt | I think a quick human check might be a good idea, to see if it's horribly broken or not | 14:31 |
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| gpocentek | I agree with Tom | 14:32 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, regarding translations I improved the tooling as well: http://jaegerandi.blogspot.de/2014/04/changes-for-importing-translations-to.html | 14:32 |
| sld | k | 14:32 |
| annegentle | #link http://jaegerandi.blogspot.de/2014/04/changes-for-importing-translations-to.html | 14:32 |
| annegentle | nice | 14:32 |
| AJaeger | sld you mean: translation going in without approval? I'm not aware of that | 14:32 |
| sld | but those things have a TON of files they change....anything in particular to look for? | 14:32 |
| sld | AJaeger: yeah, exactly. | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | the machines, sld, they're taking over :) | 14:32 |
| sld | hehehe | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | resist! | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | naw | 14:32 |
| annegentle | heh on the bot needing to sign the CLA! | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | what I look for | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | is files being removed | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | blanked | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | completely redone | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | new files added | 14:33 |
| AJaeger | sld, we had for quite some time translation jobs failing and now they finally work | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | I look at the summary of files | 14:33 |
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| fifieldt | and then click a few random ones | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | just to see what's gone onm | 14:33 |
| sld | lol AJaeger | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | normally it looks like small translation progress | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | which means good = approve | 14:33 |
| AJaeger | I look at one or two files and see that they are fine - and then check files with a strange number of changes... | 14:33 |
| sld | fifieldt: normally i look to see down the whole list that they are changes, specifically...not addition or deletion. | 14:33 |
| sld | k. | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | yeah | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | that kind of thing | 14:33 |
| sld | k. | 14:33 |
| AJaeger | sld, so it's more a sanity check that they are fine. We now have some extra checks to see that they work. | 14:34 |
| fifieldt | though, one day, we should automate :) | 14:34 |
| fifieldt | when skynet goes live | 14:34 |
| annegentle | that's a great set of pointers | 14:34 |
| annegentle | #action everyone look at the requirements listing in http://justwriteclick.com/2014/04/10/tearing-down-obstacles-to-openstack-documentation-contributions/ and give feedback on the openstack-docs mailing list | 14:34 |
| AJaeger | the checksyntax gate tests the syntax of locale files | 14:34 |
| sld | lol skynet | 14:34 |
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| annegentle | #action annegentle to send post about doc tools requirements to openstack-docs mailing list | 14:34 |
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| annegentle | ok anything else on docs? | 14:35 |
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| annegentle | er tools I mean? | 14:35 |
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| annegentle | #topic Summit doc track decisions | 14:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit doc track decisions (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:35 | |
| annegentle | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/topicstatus | 14:35 |
| annegentle | that link shows how "oversubscribed" some of the projects are for track talks. We're fine at 5 proposed for 4 slots | 14:36 |
| annegentle | #link http://summit.openstack.org/ | 14:36 |
| annegentle | Take a look at the Doc topics, any we should combine or further open up? | 14:36 |
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| fifieldt | they all look like good sessions | 14:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, they do... | 14:38 |
| annegentle | yeah | 14:38 |
| annegentle | I wonder if we can open up the Ceilometer one to all recently integrated projects doc plannign? | 14:38 |
| annegentle | Seems like they all should be asking good questions like those | 14:38 |
| gpocentek | +1 | 14:39 |
| annegentle | Should we combine Install Guide with HA active/active? good or bad? | 14:39 |
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| sld | I think more focus on HA stuff should be 'on hold', so to speak, until this is done - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/L3_High_Availability_VRRP | 14:40 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: -1 on combining those | 14:40 |
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| fifieldt | yeah, I think both better separate too | 14:40 |
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| AJaeger | We have no real contributors to the HA guide ;( | 14:40 |
| annegentle | sld: oh interesting | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | yup | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | yeah, sld has an interesting point there | 14:40 |
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| sld | I can help with HA stuff, but with VRRP on the horizon (pun intended. LOL), we should see what is up with that. lol | 14:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | the only things i can sort of see combining are "patching the docs process" and "continuous publishing and automation" | 14:41 |
| annegentle | I'm not sure about Percona leading the HA discussion in a docs track? Anyone else have insights? | 14:41 |
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| fifieldt | if they want to write tonnes of things, we should encourage that :) | 14:41 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yeah those could be combined | 14:41 |
| fifieldt | but, yes, it would be better to be more spread | 14:41 |
| annegentle | fifieldt: hm my spidey sense/intuition does not tell me they want to write, they want writers :) | 14:42 |
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| sld | Percona? ...a database is a database is a database... lol | 14:42 |
| fifieldt | well, that makes it easier :) | 14:42 |
| annegentle | fifieldt: to? | 14:42 |
| fifieldt | annegentle, maybe that's the session to cut then? | 14:42 |
| AJaeger | reject ;) | 14:42 |
| annegentle | fifieldt: ah I see | 14:42 |
| * annegentle is slow :) | 14:42 | |
| fifieldt | not at all! | 14:43 |
| * fifieldt is just not making sense | 14:43 | |
| fifieldt | as usual :D | 14:43 |
| sld | lol | 14:43 |
| * AJaeger does not understand fifieldt | 14:43 | |
| Sam-I-Am | did you try rebooting? | 14:43 |
| AJaeger | coffee? | 14:43 |
| fifieldt | I need two +2s to reboot ;) | 14:43 |
| fifieldt | but keep spelling it wrong | 14:43 |
| fifieldt | or using the wrong tags | 14:43 |
| annegentle | spelling counts! | 14:43 |
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| annegentle | also wanted to be sure you all know about the two docs cross-project sessions | 14:44 |
| fifieldt | /me thankfully remembers how to spell atrocious | 14:44 |
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| annegentle | #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/626a1e21babaf30d98973f5eb7402fcf#.U1fR5uZdU0w | 14:44 |
| annegentle | #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/19381e6ad48e05abc9099eb7ff956231#.U1fR8uZdU0w | 14:45 |
| annegentle | I'll schedule the other four today (or by the end of the week for sure, gotta get that blog post done) | 14:45 |
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| * annegentle time blocks | 14:45 | |
| annegentle | ok | 14:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | you should try non-blocking time, its more efficient | 14:45 |
| annegentle | #topic Installation guide | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:45 | |
| Sam-I-Am | the good news... it works. | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IceHouseDocTesting | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | so few bug reports | 14:46 |
| * fifieldt is scared | 14:46 | |
| annegentle | So all I wanted to talk about here is how we'll know when to cut stable/icehouse? | 14:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm in the process of expanding my lab and testing the release versions of everything | 14:46 |
| annegentle | woohoo on working!! | 14:46 |
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| Sam-I-Am | however, there is still much work to be done | 14:46 |
| annegentle | Wow Sam-I-Am | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | just to set a bound: pre-summit at the latest? | 14:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: my question is also your question | 14:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | and we should base it on what's left to do | 14:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | we need to prioritize 'need to do' vs. 'want to do' | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | #link https://launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+milestone/icehouse | 14:47 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: or just say pre-summit | 14:47 |
| annegentle | and backport from there | 14:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | some things can wait for juno, others we can backport | 14:47 |
| annegentle | it's kind of freeing in some ways :) | 14:47 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I haven't checked lately, is OVS-non-ml2 removed? | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | its gone | 14:48 |
| * annegentle sings "Let It Go" from Frozen at the top of her lungs | 14:48 | |
| Sam-I-Am | buuuut... | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | i noticed that rhel 7 is following in fedora's footsteps by using "ens###" for network interface names rather than "eth#" | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | the diagrams and stuff reference "eth#" | 14:49 |
| fifieldt | ewww | 14:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | if we're going to make the guide compat with rhel 7, i am considering "generifying" our description of network interfaces | 14:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | or at least trying | 14:49 |
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| Sam-I-Am | this issue affects the arch, basic os config, and neutron chapters | 14:49 |
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| annegentle | arrr. | 14:50 |
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| Sam-I-Am | fifieldt: did you notice the "ens###" on your fedora box? | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | nope, it was using eths | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | whats more interesting is "ens###" is not consistent among boxen | 14:51 |
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| Sam-I-Am | it kind of chooses based on pci bus ID or something | 14:51 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think we can either generify the guide or use notes to mention ens-style distros | 14:51 |
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| fifieldt | this will be the first big change for juno | 14:52 |
| fifieldt | I believe | 14:52 |
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| Sam-I-Am | so you dont want to cover it in icehouse? i suspect it only affects people using rhel 7, which isn't released yet... hence why we haven't seen bug reports. | 14:52 |
| fifieldt | so I think the longer we wait to cut stable/icehouse, the longer Sam-I-Am's holiday is :) | 14:53 |
| annegentle | heh | 14:53 |
| sld | lol | 14:53 |
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| Sam-I-Am | what holiday?! | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | Sam-I-Am, could go either way for me :) | 14:53 |
| * fifieldt defers to other's judgement | 14:53 | |
| Sam-I-Am | does anyone know when rhel 7 will release? | 14:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | rh likes to be secret about it | 14:53 |
| gpocentek | even if it's released soon, there's alway a delay before adoption | 14:54 |
| AJaeger | I've heard something about a RC these days, so shouldn't be long. | 14:54 |
| annegentle | secret secret | 14:54 |
| fifieldt | betas are out | 14:54 |
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| Sam-I-Am | it should take too much work to generify the docs (he says cautiously) | 14:54 |
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| gpocentek | I'd make the changes in juno | 14:54 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, tell you what. i'll work on a patch. if it happens after we cut stable, we can always backport it. | 14:55 |
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| Sam-I-Am | might not be a pretty backport | 14:55 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I'm fine with Icehouse being "not 7" | 14:55 |
| annegentle | reflect the reality of 4/17/14 | 14:55 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: thats one way to look at it | 14:55 |
| fifieldt | ZDNet reckons Q3 2014 | 14:56 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yeah we do timed releases | 14:56 |
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| Sam-I-Am | and of course, if "ens###" ends up in our cut, its not a big deal | 14:56 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: so it makes sense to me anyway | 14:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | the other thing about rhel7 is mariadb | 14:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | which the guide doesn't cover at all | 14:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | so there is another road block of sorts | 14:56 |
| annegentle | yeah that has to go in juno | 14:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think i can agree with targeting rhel 7 for juno | 14:56 |
| annegentle | ayup | 14:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | next thing... diagrams | 14:57 |
| annegentle | oh yes | 14:57 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i had a plan of adding diagrams to chapters which add optional components | 14:57 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: that's a great plan, want to do it in Juno tho? Or really want for Icehouse? | 14:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | for example, the cinder chapter would have the arch diagram with a block storage node added | 14:58 |
| annegentle | I'm all for incremental improvement to avoid burnout! :) | 14:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | just to give people an idea of what's running on the new node | 14:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | plus network connectivity | 14:58 |
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| * fifieldt likes diagrams | 14:59 | |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: i'm hoping they wont take long since i have 'templates' of sorts already | 14:59 |
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| Sam-I-Am | just need to add the little service boxes inside of them | 14:59 |
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| Sam-I-Am | fifieldt: me too... visualization good. | 15:00 |
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| annegentle | ok sorry our time's up | 15:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | this also follows along with me producing some sort of 'template' for diagrams | 15:00 |
| annegentle | Better carry on in #openstack-doc | 15:00 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | ok | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 23 15:00:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-04-23-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-04-23-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-04-23-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 23 15:01:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | Hi | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | who is around for today's meeting? | 15:01 |
| BobBallAway | Not me. | 15:01 |
| BobBallAway | As you can tell from the nick | 15:01 |
| BobBallAway | althought some might say that I'm lying. | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lol | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, if its only me nothing to say | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #info we have no summit session for XenServer as discussed before | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | next week we should have a think about any blueprints we need/want and might want to get into nova-specs | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | CI improvements might be worth discussing | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:04 | |
| BobBallAway | you mean today? | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 23 15:04:22 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:04 |
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| BobBallAway | sorry | 15:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-04-23-15.01.html | 15:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-04-23-15.01.txt | 15:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-04-23-15.01.log.html | 15:04 |
| leifz | Wow that was fast! | 15:04 |
| BobBallAway | because I was lying I am actually here | 15:04 |
| BobBallAway | but *grin* it's ok | 15:04 |
| BobBallAway | I was just going to talk about the CI some more | 15:04 |
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| BobBallAway | also to highlight a patch | 15:04 |
| BobBallAway | so johnthetubaguy - could you look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87958/ | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87958 | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | its open in a window | 15:05 |
| leifz | BobBallAway: someone asked if we are testing the plugins in the CI the other day... Do we test them? | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure I like it | 15:05 |
| BobBallAway | yes leifz | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | leifz: yes | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | leifz: we launch an instance | 15:05 |
| BobBallAway | What's the concern john? | 15:05 |
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| BobBallAway | more to the point, we always copy the plugins to dom0 when we run devstack | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBallAway: looks like a config error, you should just trust yourself | 15:05 |
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| leifz | okay, do we do any 'unit' testing? They were asking as I post plugin adjustments how we get verification. | 15:06 |
| BobBallAway | most hosts don't trust themselves though | 15:06 |
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| BobBallAway | and I don't like automatically adding it - that's a recipe for a security hole | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBallAway: I agree its a security issue | 15:06 |
| BobBallAway | certainly any installation of ubuntu / centos does not trust itself by default | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBallAway: I don't disagree | 15:07 |
| BobBallAway | Ok - but I really don't think that devstack should set up that trust | 15:07 |
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| BobBallAway | My issue is that tempest tests resize using localhost, so we need that to work 'somehow' | 15:08 |
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| BobBallAway | fixing it in each CI / environment as a custom fix can't be the right way | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBallAway: its a required configuration step for migrate and resize work, seems like devstack should set that up | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBallAway: but maybe we are talking at cross purposes | 15:10 |
| BobBallAway | I strongly disagree - I don't think devstack should be changing the self-trusted status of the machine you run it on | 15:11 |
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| BobBallAway | so I'm removing it as a 'required configuration step' - there is no need for it to be a 'required configuration step' | 15:11 |
| BobBallAway | less config = better | 15:11 |
| BobBallAway | less config = fewer mistakes / omissions / docs / etc | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBallAway: agree, we should use live-migrate | 15:12 |
| BobBallAway | I think we all agree on that one :) | 15:12 |
| BobBallAway | but I'd like to get this in to unblock some of the current tempest tests | 15:12 |
| BobBallAway | and unblock things like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87312/ | 15:12 |
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| BobBallAway | We can even just call this change a performance optimisation if you like ;) What's your objection to it going in? | 15:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBallAway: yeah, I approved it as a performance optimisation for resize down :) | 15:16 |
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| BobBallAway | Ohhh - resize down always works on the same host then? I like the argument! Thanks. | 15:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, not sure I remember now, but it could | 15:17 |
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| BobBallAway | fair enough | 15:18 |
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| thingee | paging jgriffith | 16:01 |
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| garyk | vmware meeting? | 16:05 |
| hartsocks | 1 hour by my watch. :-) | 16:05 |
| winston-d_ | garyk: no, it's cinder meeting time | 16:05 |
| garyk | ok, thanks | 16:05 |
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| thingee | #startmeeting Cinder | 16:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 23 16:06:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:06 |
| thingee | hey all | 16:06 |
| winston-d_ | o/ | 16:06 |
| kmartin | hello | 16:06 |
| Xyang | Hi | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | Howdy. | 16:06 |
| vbala | Hi | 16:06 |
| asselin2 | hi | 16:06 |
| thingee | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting | 16:06 |
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| thingee | got our agenda today, pretty small | 16:07 |
| thingee | #topic Cinder specs | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder specs (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:07 | |
| thingee | jungleboyj: you have the floor | 16:07 |
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| jungleboyj | thingee: Thanks. I am not sure how much progress we can make on this but wanted to start the conversation. | 16:07 |
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| jungleboyj | Just wondering if we have any thoughts/definition around how this cinder-spec process is going to work. | 16:08 |
| jungleboyj | When I mentioned it here to our developers I get questions for more details. | 16:08 |
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| jungleboyj | Anyone know more? | 16:09 |
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| kmartin | is this the new blueprint process? or something different? | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | kmartin: Yes. | 16:10 |
| kmartin | did jgriffith set up a wiki page with the details yet? | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | kmartin: Not that I am aware of. | 16:10 |
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| thingee | I think most of these questions can be answered from previous threads on the dev list http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032796.html | 16:11 |
| thingee | at least with what nova is doing | 16:11 |
| * jungleboyj is looking. | 16:11 | |
| thingee | I think it would be great to follow suit so the process is consistent across projects. | 16:12 |
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| kmartin | thingee: +1 | 16:12 |
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| thingee | and I don't really have any oppositions with nova's terms | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | Since we don't have a drivers team, it would just be our core review team that is on the hook here . | 16:12 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: yes, and I think it has always been that way. | 16:13 |
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| jungleboyj | thingee: Ok, was just making sure. :-) | 16:13 |
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| thingee | if we had problems with bps in the past, jgriffith would weigh our opinions in before approving something | 16:13 |
| thingee | just wasn't official | 16:14 |
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| jungleboyj | thingee 2 +2's required to move on? | 16:14 |
| thingee | yes | 16:14 |
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| jungleboyj | thingee: or I am guessing PTL +2 . | 16:14 |
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| kmartin | I think the cinder-specs repository needs to be setup still in GitHub, similiar to nova's https://github.com/openstack/nova-specs | 16:15 |
| thingee | I guess this would be slightly different in that it does require someone else to weigh in besides the ptl | 16:15 |
| thingee | kmartin: yes | 16:15 |
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| thingee | originally on the list though when nova was moving towards this direction, there was some hesitation in letting nova try it before everybody jumped on board | 16:15 |
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| jungleboyj | kmartin: So, PTL +2 and at least one more +2. | 16:15 |
| thingee | it was one of the first threads around this...does anyone remember that? | 16:16 |
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| kmartin | nova has a small readme but not to that detail: https://github.com/openstack/nova-specs/blob/master/README.rst | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | kmartin: Thanks. | 16:18 |
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| jungleboyj | The other question for Cinder is what the process is for proposing driver changes. Do they all use the same template or is there a less complicated method for driver owners to propose changes. | 16:18 |
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| jungleboyj | opinions? | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | The nova template is quite lengthy. | 16:19 |
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| thingee | jungleboyj: yeah, but as I understood it's a way to communicate to ops too | 16:20 |
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| thingee | of what this change exactly means | 16:20 |
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| jungleboyj | Ok. | 16:20 |
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| thingee | for example cinder v2 support https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88500/ | 16:20 |
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| jungleboyj | thingee: I wonder if this is a discussion I should take to the mailing list so we can have this all documented. | 16:20 |
| thingee | it would probably be best yes. I don't think a lot of people are present in this meeting, or are just being silent | 16:21 |
| thingee | neutron has started a thread for themselves too | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Agreed. I will get a note put together today with thoughts/proposals and we can go from there. | 16:21 |
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| kmartin | these meetings get recorded, but I'm sure jgriffith would have input on this topic | 16:22 |
| thingee | #action jungleboyj will put together proposal for cinder-specs and post to openstack-dev ML | 16:22 |
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| thingee | I think not having things ready for a new development release makes it hard. | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | kmartin: Right. Want to also make sure that winston-d_ avishay DuncanT- give input. | 16:23 |
| kmartin | yes, this should be in place now if it's required for juno | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | thingee +2 | 16:23 |
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| jungleboyj | That was all I had. | 16:24 |
| thingee | #topic Open discussion | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:24 | |
| thingee | heh | 16:24 |
| thingee | easy meeting | 16:24 |
| jungleboyj | :-) I get to go to lunch early. | 16:24 |
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| * jungleboyj is hungry | 16:24 | |
| thingee | anything else? | 16:25 |
| kmartin | nice and fast, any idea when the cinder design session will be scheduled | 16:25 |
| winston-d_ | jgriffith: ^^ | 16:25 |
| thingee | likely thursday and friday like it usual is | 16:25 |
| deepakcs | Sorry i got in late here.. cinder design session is in the context of juno summit or somethign else ? | 16:26 |
| thingee | deepakcs: yes the design summit | 16:26 |
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| deepakcs | thingee, ok.. the las ttime i saw the summit.os.org.. it wasnt' clear what summits are in and what are not.. is it frozen now ? | 16:27 |
| thingee | deepakcs: we're more wondering when cinder sessions will be, not what's going to be in it | 16:28 |
| deepakcs | thingee, do we have any design session to discuss the way to provide a graceful cleanup for cinder plugins .. I had a mail thread on it on -dev in the recent past | 16:28 |
| deepakcs | thingee, ok :) | 16:28 |
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| thingee | deepakcs: I don't think it was proposed at summit.openstack.org | 16:29 |
| thingee | but I believe it's too late too submit now | 16:29 |
| deepakcs | thingee, Ya, i was not sure of the travel then :) | 16:29 |
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| thingee | anything else? | 16:30 |
| deepakcs | thingee, I also had a mail thread in -dev on the ensure_shares_mounted and issues around it.. need to see if that will get addressed in any of the submitted summits | 16:30 |
| deepakcs | thingee, do u know ^^ just in case ? | 16:30 |
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| * deepakcs haven't gotten to see all the proposals | 16:31 | |
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| thingee | deepakcs: If it's not listed in summit.openstack.org, it's not being discussed. I don't remember seeing it myself | 16:31 |
| deepakcs | thingee, ok thanks... i am done | 16:31 |
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| thingee | #endmeeting | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 23 16:31:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-04-23-16.06.html | 16:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-04-23-16.06.txt | 16:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-04-23-16.06.log.html | 16:31 |
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| jungleboyj | Thanks thingee | 16:32 |
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| tjones | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 23 17:00:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:00 |
| tjones | hi folks - who is here today? | 17:00 |
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| * hartsocks waves | 17:01 | |
| tjones | *listens* | 17:01 |
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| tjones | *continuing to listen* | 17:02 |
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| tjones | hi hartsocks | 17:02 |
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| browne | hi | 17:02 |
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| tjones | ok im going to get started - assuming some lurkers are out there too. | 17:02 |
| tjones | #topic change in chair for vmwareapi | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "change in chair for vmwareapi (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:03 | |
| ssurana | hi | 17:03 |
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| tjones | we are having a change in chair for this meeting. hartsocks is going to be focusing his time fully on the care and feeding of the pyvmomi library. He's done an awesome job chairing this meeting and i am going to take over as chair at least in the short term | 17:04 |
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| tjones | thanks hartsocks for all of the work you have done as chair and we are looking forward to being able to consume an awesome pyvmomi soon | 17:05 |
| * hartsocks bows | 17:05 | |
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| tjones | *claps* | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | We're just ramping up on pyVmomi dev right now. | 17:05 |
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| hartsocks | I've launched a couple IRC channels... | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | #pyvmomi and #pyvmomi-dev | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | So you folks are the first to hear about them. | 17:06 |
| tjones | i hope you are the channel owner ;-) | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | We'll be doing this as an open source effort. | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | tjones: yeah… first thing I did with znc is do an autoop on myself. | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | We will also have public mailing lists and all that. | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | OpenStack will be our first big consumer for the lib you your input is vital. | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | Anyway that's my plug for my new project. | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | It will be a nice landing place for anything that comes out of OpenStack that belongs in a broader library. | 17:08 |
| * hartsocks steps back and waves | 17:08 | |
| tjones | thanks hartsocks feel free to continue to attend this meeting as a sync point between openstack and pyvmomi if you think that works | 17:08 |
| tjones | ok moving to BP | 17:09 |
| tjones | #topic blueprints | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:09 | |
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| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs+message:vmware,n,z | 17:09 |
| tjones | #undo | 17:09 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x37459d0> | 17:09 |
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| tjones | I wanted to talk about approved BP first | 17:09 |
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| tjones | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova?searchtext=vmware | 17:10 |
| tjones | so spawn refactor is approved and is moving along. It has started partially moving upstreeam (yeah). Please review if you have a chance https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-spawn-refactor | 17:11 |
| tjones | any other approved BP that needs attention? | 17:11 |
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| tjones | i should have said phase 1 of spawn refactor. hartsocks and vuil are working on phase 2 and 3. how is that going guys? | 17:12 |
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| hartsocks | I've gotten some reviews for small changes. I'm sitting on a revision waiting for phase 1 to merge. | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | vuil and I need to sync up on how phase 3 will have to change now that I've dropped part of the model.py we were building. | 17:13 |
| vuil | I am semi-waiting for some phase-2 updates too. | 17:13 |
| vuil | let's sync up after this, Shawn. | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | vuil: sounds good. | 17:14 |
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| tjones | ok for non-approved BP we have #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs+message:vmware,n,z | 17:14 |
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| tjones | hartsocks: do you want me to take over epemeral disk or will you be able to continue on this? | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | I was planning on continuing with ephemeral disk support. | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | There isn't much to do. | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | It has been ported now since Havana. | 17:15 |
| tjones | ok i see you have a -1 now. wll you be revising soon? | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | oops… yeah. I'll catch that this afternoon then. | 17:15 |
| tjones | next one is #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84629/ | 17:16 |
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| vuil | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85469/ is approved btw, and is one of the high priority items. Tracy can you update the bp link? | 17:16 |
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| vuil | that would be: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/use-oslo-vmware | 17:16 |
| tjones | #action update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/use-oslo-vmware | 17:17 |
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| tjones | i suspect vincent hou does not attend this meeitng. anyone know his irc name? | 17:17 |
| tjones | i'll find it somewhere | 17:18 |
| tjones | ok next 2 are yours vuil | 17:18 |
| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86395/ | 17:18 |
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| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85635/ | 17:18 |
| vuil | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86395/ is waiting on a +2 | 17:18 |
| tjones | how are these going? they are icehouse leftovers | 17:18 |
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| vuil | I need to update the spec for the other | 17:19 |
| vuil | once approval, they will essentially be waiting on the refactor for refresh | 17:19 |
| tjones | ok looks like johnthetubaguy reviewed it a few weeks ago. probably ready for him to take another look | 17:19 |
| tjones | by "it" i mean https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86395/ | 17:20 |
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| tjones | last one #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84662/ | 17:20 |
| tjones | kiran does not attend this meeting either | 17:20 |
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| tjones | but it looks like it is ready for some +1 type reviews - so please take a look | 17:20 |
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| tjones | anything else on BP? | 17:21 |
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| tjones | #topic bugs | 17:22 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:22 | |
| tjones | we have 59 bugs currently and 17 are not assigned | 17:22 |
| tjones | http://tinyurl.com/kamvt7b | 17:22 |
| mdbooth | Is there a bp for ova in glance, btw? | 17:22 |
| vuil | @mdbooth what in particular re: ova? | 17:22 |
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| vuil | support for the container type is merged | 17:23 |
| vuil | in glance | 17:23 |
| mdbooth | vuil: Ah, never mind. That *is* the bp :) | 17:23 |
| tjones | lol | 17:23 |
| * mdbooth isn't used to the new format. yet | 17:23 | |
| browne | tjones: shouldn't https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1297998 be assigned to you? | 17:24 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297998 in nova "VMWare: spawn refactor - _power_on_vm" [Undecided,New] | 17:24 |
| tjones | ok so the unassigned bugs - there is 1 high prio one. can someone grab that and work on it? It's not super high prio but would be annoying to a customer | 17:24 |
| tjones | browne: thanks i am going to close that. i opened it in error since there is a bp we do not need it | 17:24 |
| tjones | we also have 6 untriaged bugs in that list | 17:25 |
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| tjones | i don't want to do it here - but please take a look at them. I will triage fter this meeting | 17:26 |
| browne | i can look into 1249519 | 17:26 |
| tjones | great thanks browne | 17:26 |
| tjones | anything else on bugs? | 17:26 |
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| tjones | #topic summit | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:27 | |
| tjones | ok anything we should discuss for the summit? | 17:27 |
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| mdbooth | Clustering | 17:27 |
| mdbooth | Locking | 17:28 |
| tjones | yes | 17:28 |
| tjones | did anyone propose a talk around that? | 17:28 |
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| mdbooth | There's already a multi-project talk around clustering | 17:29 |
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| * mdbooth doesn't know where to find the link | 17:29 | |
| tjones | is that the one vishy is running? | 17:29 |
| tjones | no here it is | 17:29 |
| tjones | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/145 | 17:29 |
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| tjones | not locking though | 17:30 |
| mdbooth | tjones: Yes, that's the one | 17:30 |
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| mdbooth | So, locking might come out of HA, actually | 17:31 |
| mdbooth | Which I would treat separately from clustering | 17:31 |
| tjones | yes | 17:31 |
| mdbooth | Although they're related in usage | 17:31 |
| tjones | in our usage for sure | 17:31 |
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| tjones | i dont' really see anything appropriate in the propsals for this topic. we should perhaps have an unconference on this? | 17:32 |
| mdbooth | If we're going to have multiple nova nodes managing 1 cluster, we need to ensure that's safe | 17:32 |
| mdbooth | And we need to decide if that's a good idea in the first place | 17:32 |
| tjones | in our "best practices" we discourage that - but of couse it is not enforcable | 17:33 |
| tjones | however you spell that | 17:33 |
| mdbooth | I mean from an HA pov | 17:33 |
| mdbooth | i.e. active backup | 17:33 |
| tjones | right | 17:33 |
| mdbooth | It keeps coming up | 17:33 |
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| tjones | so lets discuss at the summit somehow - unconference or whatever | 17:34 |
| tjones | #action make sure to discuss > 1 n-cpu / cluster and locking | 17:34 |
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| tjones | any other summit topics? | 17:34 |
| tjones | irc://ec2-54-209-130-42.compute-1.amazonaws.com:6666/#action make sure to discuss > 1 n-cpu / cluster and locking at the summit | 17:35 |
| tjones | oops | 17:35 |
| tjones | undo | 17:35 |
| tjones | #undo | 17:35 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x3800e90> | 17:35 |
| tjones | anyway... | 17:36 |
| tjones | #topic open discussion | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:36 | |
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| mdbooth | I've been looking at vnc ports today | 17:36 |
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| garyk | did you find them :) | 17:36 |
| tjones | lol | 17:36 |
| mdbooth | garyk: I did, thanks :) | 17:36 |
| mdbooth | So, I was a bit surprised to discover that vsphere doesn't allocate them automatically | 17:37 |
| garyk | mdbooth: i think that radoslav did a lot of work with them | 17:37 |
| mdbooth | The most recent fix to vnc ports makes them vcenter-global | 17:37 |
| garyk | i think that we are also waistful with the way in which we use them | 17:37 |
| mdbooth | There's a code comment about making them host global | 17:37 |
| mdbooth | However, I think they actually need to be cluster global | 17:38 |
| mdbooth | because in an HA cluster, a VM can move between hosts | 17:38 |
| mdbooth | I was considering knocking up a patch for that. | 17:38 |
| mdbooth | Thoughts? | 17:38 |
| garyk | i suggest may speaking with rado (he is the same tz as us). he may have some useful inputs | 17:39 |
| tjones | mdbooth: good point. i wonder what happens to the vnc port when it moves to a host that already has that in use… does vc figure that out and reassign it ? | 17:39 |
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| hartsocks | IIRC things just break | 17:39 |
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| mdbooth | tjones: I'm planning on finding out, once I set my lab up so I can actually do that :) | 17:39 |
| mdbooth | Then I was going to fix it | 17:39 |
| tjones | mdbooth: cool | 17:39 |
| mdbooth | incidentally, can I vmotion with no shared storage? | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | There's a set of criteria for vMotion. | 17:40 |
| mdbooth | I created a 2 host cluster earlier with no shared storage | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | Shared storage works on 5.0 and earlier… but I don't recall about later. | 17:40 |
| mdbooth | I put one of the hosts in maintenance mode, and was hoping the guest on it would magically end up on the other one | 17:40 |
| tjones | i think it works storage vmotion should take care of it | 17:41 |
| mdbooth | It didn't seem to be happening | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | Thats SRS | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | DRS | 17:41 |
| tjones | yes | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | auto placement… it's in the dev docs on the wiki | 17:41 |
| * mdbooth thinks DRS is enabled | 17:41 | |
| mdbooth | Anyway, will play more tomorrow | 17:41 |
| * hartsocks digs up docs | 17:41 | |
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| hartsocks | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NovaVMware/DeveloperGuide#vSphere_Environment_and_Inventory | 17:43 |
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| mdbooth | What does vsphere use for its native console, btw? | 17:43 |
| mdbooth | Can we expose that to an appropritate client? | 17:43 |
| browne | mdbooth: vmrc | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | It's conceptually the same as VNC but better compression / crypto | 17:44 |
| browne | to expose it would require user access to vcenter. and vcenter users are not the same set of users as openstack | 17:44 |
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| mdbooth | browne: It's not proxyable? | 17:44 |
| mdbooth | We proxy vnc | 17:44 |
| browne | mdbooth: not sure | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | That's beyond my knowledge of vmrc. | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | I know we have a vmrc plugin for the web client version of vCenter. | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | Well, I seem to recall something about that anyhow. | 17:45 |
| * mdbooth only has the web client, and can access consoles | 17:45 | |
| browne | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/console/vmrc.py | 17:46 |
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| ssurana | yeah you are right there are browser plugins for vmrc that are used to show the console | 17:46 |
| browne | looks like someone has already done something with it | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | … that leads me to believe you can proxy it anyhow... | 17:46 |
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| hartsocks | *nice* | 17:46 |
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| mdbooth | Anyway, it makes sense to me to expose the native interface | 17:47 |
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| mdbooth | presumably vcenter knows how to manage it as it moves about, for eg | 17:47 |
| ssurana | there is a way from the api to get the vmrc console ticket that you can use to view the VM's console.. | 17:47 |
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| hartsocks | I have no notes on vmrc connections breaking randomly so I would tend to believe that. | 17:48 |
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| browne | would be interesting to know performance impacts of using vmrc vs. vnc | 17:48 |
| ssurana | need to look into the vmrc.py | 17:48 |
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| hartsocks | I've been told vmrc is faster / better / stronger … but I've not verified it. | 17:49 |
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| mdbooth | It occured to me that we don't use vnc passwords, btw | 17:50 |
| mdbooth | So if the host is routable from the user network, that's a security problem | 17:50 |
| hartsocks | yeah. That is. | 17:51 |
| browne | mdbooth: yes. openstack's use of vnc has always concerned me | 17:51 |
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| garyk | mdbooth: originally we used the passwords. but that was problematic and it was not needed | 17:51 |
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| mdbooth | garyk: not needed? | 17:51 |
| garyk | ideally the creation of the vnc connection should provide a poassword to the user - but that would be higher in the stack | 17:51 |
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| mdbooth | because it's on a segrated network? | 17:51 |
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| garyk | mdbooth: libvirt does not have vnc password | 17:51 |
| garyk | all of the vm's would also have the same password | 17:52 |
| * mdbooth has been learning that's no guarantee of correctness :) | 17:52 | |
| browne | vnc is typically tunneled over ssh for security | 17:52 |
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| hartsocks | At the moment we tell people to make a "hard and crunchy outside" around the gooey nougat that is the VNC addressable networkspace | 17:52 |
| mdbooth | Right | 17:52 |
| mdbooth | Security at the network level | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | Which I term: | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | "hard and crunchy outside, soft and chewy center" | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | And it's a bit naive if you ask me. | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | It presumes no tennant would ever attack another. | 17:53 |
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| tjones | ok folks - just a few more minutes here. anything else we want to discuss? | 17:55 |
| tjones | going to end now then. feel free to continue discussing on openstack-dev or openstack-vmware. we pretty much have moved to -dev for all of our discussions now. | 17:57 |
| tjones | thanks and have a good week | 17:57 |
| * hartsocks waves a fond farewell | 17:58 | |
| browne | dev or -nova? | 17:58 |
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| tjones | duh -nova | 17:58 |
| tjones | #endmeeting | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 23 17:58:42 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-04-23-17.00.html | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-04-23-17.00.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-04-23-17.00.log.html | 17:58 |
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| zaneb | #startmeeting heat | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 23 20:01:14 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is zaneb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:01 |
| zaneb | #topic roll call | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| radix | o/ | 20:01 |
| bgorski | o/ | 20:01 |
| randallburt | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | \o | 20:01 |
| tspatzier | hi all | 20:01 |
| wirehead_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
| vijendar | hi | 20:01 |
| jasond | o/ | 20:01 |
| jpeeler | hi | 20:01 |
| erecio | o/ | 20:01 |
| sanjay_sohoni | o/ | 20:01 |
| kebray | o/ | 20:01 |
| pas-ha | o/ | 20:02 |
| rakhmerov | hey | 20:02 |
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| zaneb | rakhmerov: welcome :) | 20:02 |
| rakhmerov | tnx! | 20:02 |
| zaneb | good turnout today :) | 20:02 |
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| sdake | wrong channel :) o/ | 20:03 |
| zaneb | #topic Review last meeting's actions | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last meeting's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
| rakhmerov | :) | 20:03 |
| zaneb | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-04-17-00.02.html | 20:03 |
| zaneb | zaneb to add deprecation of RouterGateway to Release Notes | 20:03 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: I did that | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | ta | 20:03 |
| zaneb | zaneb to propose options for alternate meeting times on Mailing List | 20:03 |
| zaneb | I also did that | 20:04 |
| zaneb | just now :D | 20:04 |
| tspatzier | I saw it :-) | 20:04 |
| zaneb | of course none of the relevant people are here, so not much point discussing it | 20:04 |
| zaneb | reply on the ML if you have a preference | 20:04 |
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| zaneb | * everyone to submit design summit session proposals by the end of the week | 20:04 |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:04 |
| zaneb | did everyone do that? | 20:04 |
| zaneb | well done everyone | 20:05 |
| radix | :) | 20:05 |
| zaneb | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:05 | |
| zaneb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282014-04-23_2000_UTC.29 | 20:05 |
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| zaneb | any additional items? | 20:05 |
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| zaneb | I'll take that as a no | 20:06 |
| zaneb | #topic Design Summit planning | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit planning (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:06 | |
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| zaneb | so I had an idea of how to handle this | 20:07 |
| zaneb | ...and then lifeless proposed another session | 20:07 |
| skraynev | hello all, sorry for the late | 20:07 |
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| wirehead_ | heh | 20:07 |
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| zaneb | so, there is an etherpad up to collaborate on this | 20:08 |
| wirehead_ | so, action item... hassle lifeless? | 20:08 |
| zaneb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-juno-design-summit-schedule | 20:08 |
| zaneb | only randallburt, therve and asalkeld have commented on it so far | 20:08 |
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| zaneb | radix, lifeless: both of your sessions touch on convergence and healing | 20:09 |
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| radix | yeah, it's something that a lot of people care about :) | 20:09 |
| zaneb | I'm not sure whether to merge those into one session or schedule them back-to-back | 20:10 |
| zaneb | thoughts? | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | its a topic which almost deserves 2 sessions | 20:10 |
| randallburt | btw, shardy, I only added the v2 api session so it got on the list; I'd like to collaborate with you on that or let you run it if you prefer | 20:10 |
| radix | zaneb: I think it's more important to give thorough focus to convergence + healing, informed by use cases such as autoscaling and tripleO | 20:10 |
| shardy | randallburt: sure sounds good | 20:10 |
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| sdake | merge makes more sense | 20:10 |
| shardy | randallburt: not had time to look at that lately so will be good to kick-start the effort again ;) | 20:10 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: A session isn't really needed for http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/388 if we're only doing the reorg | 20:11 |
| randallburt | shardy: k | 20:11 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: I totally plan to reject that one ;) | 20:11 |
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| radix | zaneb: though I won't say anything about the tripleO session, I am pretty far removed from that topic so maybe it should still have its own | 20:12 |
| * stevebaker goes to get some Rope | 20:12 | |
| zaneb | fwiw I don't think it's necessary in general for the person who proposed the session to run it | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | by which I mean https://github.com/python-rope/rope | 20:12 |
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| rakhmerov | do you guys have an item to discuss things like integration with taskflow/mistral/whatever it is at the summit? | 20:12 |
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| zaneb | the person who proposed the session will be accountable for finding _someone_ to run it though ;) | 20:13 |
| sdake | there is a separate session that ttx setup that is approve3d | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier: I'm getting to replying to your software-config email. Do you mind if I run the session? | 20:13 |
| zaneb | rakhmerov: yes, it's in the cross-project track | 20:13 |
| sdake | for cross project integration with emerging stackforge projects | 20:13 |
| ruhe | this one http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/1 | 20:13 |
| sdake | yes #1 - must be important :) | 20:14 |
| radix | rakhmerov: there's a session proposed for the cross-project sessions: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/335 | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | first post! | 20:14 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: sounds good; would be happy to drive this together with you | 20:14 |
| radix | rakhmerov: though maybe that's not exactly what you're getting at | 20:14 |
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| zaneb | wow, we got 2 time slots | 20:14 |
| radix | huh? | 20:14 |
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| rakhmerov | no, I think that's fine. Basically I'm here to figure out how we can communicate at the summit | 20:15 |
| zaneb | radix: 1 and 335 | 20:15 |
| radix | oh | 20:15 |
| ruhe | and they're already scheduled: http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ | 20:15 |
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| zaneb | yup, as usual russellb is making the rest of us look bad with his ruthless efficiency | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:16 |
| zaneb | shardy: how important is the auth model thing, and could we combine it with the operator session? | 20:17 |
| SpamapS | Where did this idea that any one person should run a session come from? | 20:17 |
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| SpamapS | If you have something to say, you come to the front and say it. | 20:17 |
| shardy | zaneb: probably, I just wanted to see if there is still a need for discussion on that topic | 20:17 |
| wirehead_ | run = facilititate. | 20:17 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: I agree, but somebody has to start :) | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | wirehead_: disagree. We always designate somebody to take notes, but that is not the same as facilitating. | 20:18 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: Sure, whoever proposes sessions will likely be the first with anything to say. :) | 20:18 |
| randallburt | taking notes != facilitating | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | I just don't like the sessions where one person "takes the lead" | 20:18 |
| shardy | zaneb: feel free to drop or combine as needed | 20:18 |
| stevebaker | thats another job | 20:18 |
| randallburt | is moderator a better word? discussion conductor? | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | I prefer that the idea dominates. | 20:18 |
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| zaneb | shardy: ok, thanks. could you leave a comment to that effect? | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | anyway, it's a format issue | 20:19 |
| SpamapS | Anybody should feel empowered to take the floor. All should be respectful of whoever has the floor. That is all. | 20:19 |
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| shardy | zaneb: sure | 20:19 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: ++ | 20:19 |
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| SpamapS | That said, I want stevebaker to run the software-config session. | 20:20 |
| SpamapS | ;-) | 20:20 |
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| zaneb | lol | 20:20 |
| tspatzier | :-) | 20:20 |
| radix | so he can teach us how it works? :) | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | lol | 20:20 |
| zaneb | anybody know anything about #15? | 20:20 |
| sdake | need m0ar youtube | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | also, come to my main conference talk | 20:20 |
| radix | zaneb: the Swift one? | 20:21 |
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| zaneb | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/387 | 20:21 |
| SpamapS | #15 on what list? | 20:21 |
| zaneb | that one ^ | 20:21 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: when is it? | 20:21 |
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| sdake | zaneb smells like w orkflow | 20:21 |
| radix | "holistic scheduling" sounds like mspatzier would know something | 20:21 |
| randallburt | zaneb: I think that's the internal service version of the lifecycle callbacks. | 20:21 |
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| tspatzier | radix: you mean mspreitzer I guess | 20:22 |
| SpamapS | radix: mspreitzer | 20:22 |
| radix | er, yeah, mspreitzer | 20:22 |
| radix | sorry :) | 20:22 |
| SpamapS | Holistic scheduling isn't workflow. | 20:22 |
| randallburt | notifying OpenStack in a way that an operator or other OpenStack services can respond to | 20:22 |
| zaneb | btw, good news. we will have a table assigned to us for discussions throughout the conference | 20:22 |
| radix | nice | 20:22 |
| SpamapS | It is actually quite a refined form of orchestration. | 20:22 |
| zaneb | not as good as a meeting room, but considerably better than nothing | 20:22 |
| randallburt | zaneb: nice | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier: 3:40, Tuesday | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | #link http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/dae9536f6bb9ad61b3b2ccf39a18515f#.U1ghBXWSzKQ | 20:22 |
| tspatzier | thanks stevebaker | 20:23 |
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| SpamapS | Declare the things you want, and the engine deploys them optimally. | 20:23 |
| lifeless | radix: so perhaps you me and SpamapS hangout and do joint prep work for one session ? | 20:23 |
| lifeless | radix: which is your session proposal ? | 20:23 |
| SpamapS | (I also think it is _WAY_ over reaching for what Heat and OpenStack are capable of at this time) | 20:23 |
| radix | lifeless: are you talking about the convergence thing? | 20:23 |
| tspatzier | yes, this sessions is related to a patch that got recently posted by Bill Arnold, he also opened a BP after sdake requested it on the review | 20:23 |
| zaneb | lifeless: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/144 | 20:23 |
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| radix | lifeless: I'm suggesting that convergence + healing have its own session, but I didn't say that tripleo shouldn't have its own | 20:24 |
| sdake | well as I recall after looking at the review tspatzier, I was certain there would be popcorn on that idea - so may be best to have a session on it | 20:24 |
| sdake | btw, I did remove the -2 :) | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | radix: we're suggesting that convergence and healing are paramount to operating an OpenStack cloud with Heat. | 20:24 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: for a moment there I thought you were talking about lifeless's proposal | 20:24 |
| zaneb | ;) | 20:24 |
| tspatzier | agree sdake, this is a bigger topic to be sorted out | 20:25 |
| lifeless | radix: I think your session and the one I've proposed overlap a lot | 20:25 |
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| randallburt | sdake: I'm tempted to add my own −2 then. | 20:25 |
| radix | spamaps: ok, if that's the main point of your proposal then that sounds like it should all just be merged together | 20:25 |
| lifeless | radix: I'd hate to have the same discussion twice | 20:25 |
| sdake | I -2 because there was no blueprint and its popcorn material | 20:25 |
| radix | lifeless: I would suggest to get randallburt in that hangouts too | 20:25 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: I do thin holistic scheduling will be far simpler once we've moved to distributed state machine and convergence. | 20:25 |
| sdake | think its worth having a design discussion around however | 20:25 |
| randallburt | radix: sure, I'm game | 20:25 |
| sdake | it might be a good idea, I just dont know what the idea is in detail :) | 20:25 |
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| lifeless | radix: we have a specific design in mind (of course) - and HP is ponying up people to implement it (its somewhat bold in nature) | 20:26 |
| radix | interesting, ok :) | 20:26 |
| lifeless | radix: but we're also interested in scale | 20:27 |
| lifeless | radix: e.g. we want to deploy 10K node clusters | 20:27 |
| radix | thus, no polling statuses every 30 seconds ;-) | 20:27 |
| lifeless | radix: (or more - think moonshot / seamicro style rack densities) | 20:27 |
| lifeless | radix: indeed, so http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/428 | 20:27 |
| SpamapS | longpoll would be fine. ;) | 20:28 |
| zaneb | this is definitely something not contemplated when we started heat :D | 20:28 |
| shardy | lol :) | 20:28 |
| sdake | pretty soon the heat of heat will be generating sea salt! | 20:28 |
| lifeless | we can put > 1K machines in a rack... | 20:28 |
| radix | lifeless: so I'm pretty busy the rest of the day, can you suggest a time for us to get together? (randallburt and I are in the same timezone, CST) | 20:29 |
| lifeless | its scary density | 20:29 |
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| zaneb | ok, so we're supposed to have a schedule by Friday(!) | 20:29 |
| lifeless | radix: I'm free for the next 4 hours; SpamapS ? | 20:29 |
| randallburt | lifeless: is this yet another thing pinned to taskflow or is that being used as a generic "distributed asynchronous workers" | 20:29 |
| SpamapS | I have 2.5 hours | 20:29 |
| zaneb | radix, lifeless: sounds like y'all should get together and let me know what you decide | 20:30 |
| SpamapS | randallburt: the latter | 20:30 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: oh good. | 20:30 |
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| SpamapS | randallburt: but given taskflow's origins and future... no sense using something else. | 20:30 |
| zaneb | #topic Heat/Mistral collaboration | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat/Mistral collaboration (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:30 | |
| zaneb | rakhmerov: go :) | 20:30 |
| lifeless | randallburt: taskflow as a design paradigm is uninteresting in the heat context - but 'run this bit of code with guaranteed completion semantics somewhere arbitrary' is very important - and joshua and I did a mini-deep-dive on that in sunnyvale a couple months ago | 20:30 |
| rakhmerov | yep | 20:30 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: I remain to be convinced. | 20:30 |
| wirehead_ | radix: feel free to reschedule planned meetings if necessary. :) | 20:31 |
| radix | wirehead_: ok :) | 20:31 |
| lifeless | randallburt: and so rather than reinvent things I'd like to use a couple of key slices from within taskflow | 20:31 |
| radix | lifeless, SpamapS: ok, I have time after this then :) | 20:31 |
| rakhmerov | ok, so for now I have a couple of questions | 20:31 |
| radix | randallburt: ? | 20:31 |
| radix | randallburt: are you free after this meeting? | 20:31 |
| rakhmerov | 1. Are you guys still interested in discussion about integrating with something like Mistral? | 20:31 |
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| rakhmerov | 2. If yes, how could we plan this collaboration further? | 20:32 |
| kebray | radix, he's free for 15-20 minutes, then I'm going to steel him. | 20:32 |
| zaneb | rakhmerov: define 'integrating' | 20:32 |
| randallburt | radix: sorry, not for another few hours | 20:32 |
| zaneb | guys, let's take the post-meeting scheduling to #heat ;) | 20:32 |
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| rakhmerov | well, in HK we briefly touched that you might want to use Mistral once it gets mature internally for internal Heat processes automation | 20:33 |
| rakhmerov | using workflow engine | 20:33 |
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| wirehead_ | So, for reasonable auto scaling workflows, we need scheduling, perhaps like Mistral provides, to trigger scaling events. | 20:33 |
| zaneb | ok | 20:33 |
| rakhmerov | I recognize it may sound tricky because it wasn't clear what it was going to be and so on and so forth | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | rakhmerov: so we're talking about doing away with the large-scale workflow-ish parts of Heat and focusing on a convergence model. | 20:33 |
| zaneb | so the options there as I see them are to use (1) taskflow, or (2) mistral | 20:33 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | rakhmerov: we'll still have workflow needs.. | 20:34 |
| shardy | wirehead_: aren't scaling events triggered by alarms? | 20:34 |
| randallburt | zaneb: I'm not entirely sure (1) is a realistic near-term option | 20:34 |
| rakhmerov | good to hear that | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | rakhmerov: but I think they'll be entirely internal and thus will likely just leverage taskflow. | 20:34 |
| wirehead_ | shardy: "Hey, we've got a PR blast going out at 9 AM. Let's make sure we have enough servers up" | 20:34 |
| zaneb | I was personally never convinced that using an externally-facing API (mistral) would be better for the job than a library (taskflow) | 20:34 |
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| shardy | wirehead_: Ok, the cron-aas use-case, got it | 20:35 |
| randallburt | zaneb: agreed there as well | 20:35 |
| rakhmerov | ok, I see :) So getting back to quetion #2 | 20:35 |
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| zaneb | some people were convinced though, so they should speak up ;) | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | wirehead_: wouldn't you just use mistral, and schedule a workflow which pokes more servers into your autoscaling group? | 20:35 |
| rakhmerov | do you think it makes sense to discuss separately this topic more detailed? | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | wirehead_: Heat wouldn't need any special Mistral sauce for that use case. | 20:35 |
| rakhmerov | mostly, I'd like to get more details on how exactly you see using taskflow/mistral | 20:36 |
| zaneb | rakhmerov: so there's 3 possible integration points | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: My thinking about using Mistral was that we'd move to a distributed workflow model instead of having the engines be directly responsible for managing the workflow. | 20:36 |
| rakhmerov | the point is: I am not sure everyone clearly understands the key differences between taskflow and mistral | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: I'm now convinced that we should do away with the large scale workflows, which would mean Mistral would be overkill. :) | 20:36 |
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| zaneb | #1 is what we discussed just now. I think we're leaning toward taskflow for that | 20:37 |
| zaneb | #2 is implementing Mistral resources in Heat. I think we would probably do that | 20:37 |
| shardy | rakhmerov: I think that is true, I certainly don't | 20:37 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, so given that we don't have much time right now (not a suitable format) I'd suggest we have a separate discussion/meeting about that. | 20:38 |
| radix | I want to see some Mistral resources in heat, but for pretty boring reasons (just to expose scheduling stuff) | 20:38 |
| shardy | rakhmerov: maybe a ML post with a summary and links to most appropriate docs? | 20:39 |
| zaneb | #3 is integration points for external workflows within the Heat workflow | 20:39 |
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| rakhmerov | we finally got a lot implemented and are about share the results with the community so we can tell in details | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | rakhmerov: I think #1 is dependent on the outcome of our design sessions on the convergence shift, and so can't really be discussed seriously right now. #2 is a no brainer.. we should have resources for all OpenStack API's. | 20:39 |
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| shardy | rakhmerov: I think most folks understand the goals in a broad sense, but not the details, current status or roadmap | 20:39 |
| rakhmerov | SpamapS: agree that it can't be discussed seriously now | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: I think #3 is something we can do so generically that Mistral doesn't need special sauce. | 20:40 |
| rakhmerov | ok, so let me use ML to plan further activities on that | 20:40 |
| rakhmerov | so we decide where and how Mistral might be useful for you | 20:40 |
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| zaneb | SpamapS: agree, but there's also the question of making a higher-level tool like Murano that combines declarative (HOT) and workflow (mistral) elements of an application | 20:41 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: Let's call that one Sauron. | 20:41 |
| zaneb | rakhmerov: +1, mailing list is the best place to have that discussion imo | 20:41 |
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| zaneb | all right, I think we're good to move on? | 20:42 |
| SpamapS | yesplz | 20:42 |
| rakhmerov | zaneb: ok, sure. Just wanted to have a brief "live contact" with you guys and see if I can help with this | 20:42 |
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| zaneb | rakhmerov: np, thanks for coming along :) | 20:43 |
| zaneb | #topic Pending heat-templates patches for software config | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pending heat-templates patches for software config (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:43 | |
| zaneb | stevebaker: I assume this is you | 20:43 |
| tspatzier | so i added this one | 20:43 |
| zaneb | oh, ok | 20:43 |
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| tspatzier | I realised that there are a lot of good changed pending in heat-templates for the software config stuff | 20:43 |
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| tspatzier | all gated basically by one change: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79758 | 20:43 |
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| shardy | I reviewed all of these IIRC and my comments have not been addressed | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | I need to refresh those changes based on feedback, but once that is done some reviews would be good, since software-config doesn't do much without them ;) | 20:44 |
| shardy | most of them look good to go | 20:44 |
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| stevebaker | I've been distracted by other things | 20:44 |
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| tspatzier | stevebaker: yeah, that's what I thought. If you like I can take this one and post a new patch set. but wanted to talk to you first. | 20:45 |
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| tspatzier | This one and then the next dependent one ... and after that a lot of stuff can land. most of it already approved. | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier: I'll let you know. If I don't get to them today I won't be able to until Monday | 20:46 |
| zaneb | tspatzier: be aware that you'd probably have to resubmit all of them | 20:46 |
| bgorski | anyone test this patches accordingly to readmes? I was trying to do that and I had some issues with pulling deployments list | 20:46 |
| zaneb | otherwise they will have outdated dependencies | 20:47 |
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| tspatzier | zaneb: good to know | 20:47 |
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| stevebaker | also there have been some fixes in os-*-config which needed to be released. Images you build won't work without those fixes | 20:47 |
| tspatzier | bgorski: I did test them. And they seem to work pretty well. Except the one issue on the first in chain. | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: I haven't checked if you did that yet | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: _just_ now | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | \o/ | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier: I'll ping you if a handover is needed | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: it was 5 minutes ago, so it might even be on pypi | 20:48 |
| zaneb | #topic Free-for-all | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free-for-all (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:49 | |
| SpamapS | https://pypi.python.org/pypi/os-collect-config/0.1.16 indeed it is | 20:49 |
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| tspatzier | stevebaker: sounds good. just wanted to make sure we get all this really great stuff in which is depending on the first patch. | 20:49 |
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| zaneb | I'm not opposed to wrapping up 10 minutes early, for the record ;) | 20:50 |
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| shardy | If anyone wants to take a look, we have a nasty VolumeAttachment regression: | 20:51 |
| wirehead_ | zaneb: well, we could look at lolcats in lieu of wrapping up 10 minutes early. | 20:51 |
| shardy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89796/ | 20:51 |
| shardy | evidently the cinder volume attachment API doesn't actually, uh, attach the volume | 20:51 |
| stevebaker | shardy: any evidece that doesn't re-introduce the race? | 20:52 |
| shardy | just FYI if anyone feels like taking a look | 20:52 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: I'm not 100% sure but I tested locally and it worked for attach and detach/delete | 20:52 |
| pas-ha | shardy: looks like this depends on actual cider driver | 20:52 |
| shardy | stevebaker: the commit message *claims* it's considered the race, but yes that is a concern | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | shardy: ok, could you reproduce the race before? | 20:52 |
| shardy | reviews welcome, but volume attachements just silently break on current master | 20:53 |
| shardy | so would be good to fix :) | 20:53 |
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| shardy | FYI I'm working on a tempest test which would catch any future regression like this | 20:53 |
| * SpamapS eyes tempest | 20:53 | |
| * pas-ha facepalms himself | 20:53 | |
| randallburt | shardy: odd, do you know how long ago the original change landed? | 20:53 |
| shardy | SpamapS: patch should be up for review tomorrow ;) | 20:53 |
| SpamapS | shardy: my hero! | 20:54 |
| shardy | I thought my test was broken, then I realized it was *actually* broken | 20:54 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: have we talked the scaling bug ? | 20:54 |
| wirehead_ | <3 | 20:54 |
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| shardy | randallburt: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86638/ | 20:55 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: cause stevebaker's patch set didn't make enough difference | 20:55 |
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| shardy | that broke it two days ago AFAICT | 20:55 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: do you think running multiple engines would give enough headroom? We're testing on 24 core machines .... | 20:55 |
| randallburt | shardy: cool, got it. I wondered why we weren't seeing it on our cloud. We're a few days behind master so we missed the breakage | 20:55 |
| shardy | randallburt: ah, cool | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | lifeless: that might help. I've since added to the patchset but am still working on an optimisation which would make the biggest difference to the number of queries per stack load | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: because you don't have provisioned servers polling heat every 30 seconds, because you have no mechanism for those servers to authenticate ;) | 20:57 |
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| lifeless | stevebaker: so rackspace have no dynamic config via heat? | 20:59 |
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| lifeless | stevebaker: that seems to rather devalue it :) | 20:59 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: randallburt was talking about the cinder bug | 20:59 |
| lifeless | oh! | 20:59 |
| lifeless | but actually that was a question we wanted to ask | 20:59 |
| stevebaker | lifeless: currently rackspace chef config is triggered by sshing *from* heat-engine | 20:59 |
| lifeless | has rackspace seem the same performance/scale concerns we have | 21:00 |
| zaneb | time's up | 21:00 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: to end user instances? | 21:00 |
| zaneb | -> #heat | 21:00 |
| zaneb | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | lifeless: yep | 21:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 23 21:00:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-04-23-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-04-23-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-04-23-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
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