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| enikanorov | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 10 14:01:29 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:01 |
| *** coreywright is now known as coreywright_ | 14:01 | |
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| sbalukoff | Hello! | 14:01 |
| ptoohill | hello | 14:01 |
| enikanorov | hi | 14:01 |
| sballe | hi | 14:01 |
| marios | hi | 14:01 |
| rm_work|away | yo | 14:01 |
| obondarev | hi all | 14:01 |
| crc32 | over | 14:01 |
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| iwamoto | hello | 14:01 |
| aburaschi | hi | 14:01 |
| * pcm lurking as usual | 14:01 | |
| enikanorov | hi everyone | 14:01 |
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| vjay | Hi | 14:02 |
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| german_ | hi | 14:02 |
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| enikanorov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/LBaaS#Meeting_10.04.2014 | 14:02 |
| TrevorV | Morning! | 14:02 |
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| blogan | hello everyone | 14:02 |
| enikanorov | here's meeting agenda ^^^ | 14:02 |
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| enikanorov | i'm glad to see so many ppl on the meeting, but that's sad that almost none participated in the discussions on ML | 14:03 |
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| sbalukoff | Indeed. | 14:03 |
| enikanorov | one of those was to try to propose single-call API that is afvored by some of you | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov | Sam Bercovici has prepaired a list of use cases, written from a user perspective | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov | so it would be nice to see how those use cases could be implemented with such API | 14:05 |
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| enikanorov | i think if we don't get any proposal till next meeting, we may close this topic as not getting much attention | 14:05 |
| hvprash | where are we tracking the use cases ? i am confused if its the wiki or the google docs.we have some use cases and feature requests | 14:06 |
| enikanorov | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ewl95yxAMq2fO0Z6Dz6fL-w2FScERQXQR1-mXuSINis/edit | 14:06 |
| rm_work | i'll try to set aside time this week for that… still getting used to ML stuff :/ | 14:06 |
| sballe | ditto | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov | i hope all of you are tracking openstack-dev ML for [Neutron][LBaaS] emails | 14:06 |
| enikanorov | markmcclain: hi | 14:08 |
| sbalukoff | FWIW, it wasn't exctly a quiet week for those of us who still get pulled in to do hands-on work (ie. "heartbleed"), but I'm not making excuses. :) | 14:08 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov: hi | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | yeah, that one made a lot of noise | 14:08 |
| german_ | same here | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | markmcclain: i'd like to continue the discussion of 'networking functions vs virtualized appliances' | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | could you elaborate your thinking on why can't we provide API in both styles | 14:09 |
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| enikanorov | i think 'function' is a subset of 'appliance' | 14:09 |
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| enikanorov | i'm just trying to better understand the argument | 14:09 |
| jorgem1 | hello, sorry I'm late :/ | 14:09 |
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| markmcclain | enikanorov: providing both styles in the API can cause confusion | 14:11 |
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| german_ | +1 | 14:11 |
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| jorgem1 | enikanorov: Sorry for not starting the "single api call" discussion on the ML. Been quite busy. I will start that this week. | 14:11 |
| enikanorov | by 'styles' i mean the following thing: | 14:11 |
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| enikanorov | particularly, the 'virt appliance' agrument was about 'loadbalancer instance' proposal, where user works with instance and it's objects | 14:12 |
| jorgem1 | #action Jorge to engage in "Single API" discussion on ML | 14:12 |
| enikanorov | in this sense, the 'vir appliance API' is just another resource | 14:12 |
| enikanorov | which could be used as extra | 14:12 |
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| markmcclain | right but extra = confusion | 14:12 |
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| enikanorov | if user wants to work with their loadbalancing objects as a group - they use instance | 14:13 |
| enikanorov | if not - they use particular objects and don't care | 14:13 |
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| markmcclain | that seems confusing because now you have two ways to interact with something | 14:13 |
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| german_ | REST prefers to have only one way to interact with a resource | 14:14 |
| enikanorov | markmcclain: well, you can create a port on a network, and you may or may not provide fixed_ip | 14:14 |
| rm_work | not actually sure how REST prefers anything... | 14:14 |
| enikanorov | i treat it like that | 14:14 |
| markmcclain | german_: users and doc authors do too :) | 14:14 |
| rm_work | but I agree it could be confusing | 14:14 |
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| enikanorov | if you provide fixed_ip, that allows you to specify subnet | 14:15 |
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| enikanorov | if you don't care - you may omit it | 14:15 |
| sballe | markmcclain, using hte API as they are today are confusing | 14:15 |
| blogan | +1 | 14:15 |
| sbalukoff | +1 | 14:15 |
| rm_work | enikanorov: yeah, that's an issue of sane default values | 14:15 |
| jorgem1 | +1 | 14:16 |
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| markmcclain | sballe: agreed that is why a new version makes sense | 14:16 |
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| enikanorov | another problem that 'instance' can solve is the application of 'service requirements' | 14:16 |
| enikanorov | e.g. flavors/capabilities/etc | 14:17 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov: I am not following why fixed_ip even matters | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | i mean to which object should those requirements be applied? | 14:17 |
| blogan | markmcclain: if a load balancer instance is confusing and the current API is confusing, do you have any recommendations for a less confusing API? | 14:17 |
| sballe | markmcclain, so I was hoping that we had a way of fixing them. so if we move forward with a new version what are the constraints in your opinion. I only hear we cannot do this or that but nothing around how we should do it | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | markmcclain: that's was example of similar approach, in my opinion | 14:18 |
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| markmcclain | blogan: I've been heads down with RC2 work, so haven't had the opportunity to sketch out what it should look like | 14:18 |
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| jorgem1 | markmcclain: Just a general question. If we need buy in from you or core contributors but they are busy on other things then how do we make decisions? This is a question a lot of us have had in the last few meetings. | 14:20 |
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| sballe | markmcclain, I totally understand you are super busy with RC2 work but now our work is getting staled too.We have a lot of momentum and energy in the LBaaS group today but we cannot move forward | 14:20 |
| sballe | jorgem1, + 1 | 14:21 |
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| markmcclain | sballe: at this point I don't see any constraints with redeveloping the REST API mainly because if we do this properly then the exercise of how to render compatibility for users of the old version should be doable | 14:21 |
| jorgem1 | markmcclain: I think we just need some guidance on what you mean by that. | 14:21 |
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| sballe | +1 | 14:21 |
| markmcclain | jorgem1: that is the tricky part of this time of year is the core team is focused on the release | 14:22 |
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| enikanorov | markmcclain: that's why we need even the very minimum of your idea of how the API should look like | 14:22 |
| markmcclain | now that RC2 is out most of the team's attention can now be focused on juno | 14:22 |
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| enikanorov | because you seem to not like anything being proposed so far :) | 14:22 |
| markmcclain | so I would expect as more of the cores ramp up into more phases of the design process | 14:22 |
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| jorgem1 | markmcclain: Understandable. I'm just looking for an alternative because sballe is right, there is a lot of energy right now and people are pumped to get stuff completed. | 14:23 |
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| markmcclain | enikanorov: my minimum idea is something that I user centric that provides meets the high priority use cases | 14:24 |
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| markmcclain | the user should not need to care how things are implemented on the backend other than to indicate their class of service desire via flavor (or whatever we end up calling it) | 14:25 |
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| sbalukoff | Sounds like we're going to need to go through the work of making a new API proposal before we're going to have anything concrete to discuss with core? | 14:25 |
| enikanorov | markmcclain: that is totally understood and nobody is questioning it | 14:25 |
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| blogan | i think the real hangup here is what is defined as a confusing API and what is not a confusing API | 14:26 |
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| sballe | blogan, +1 | 14:26 |
| blogan | because we agree the current one is confusing | 14:26 |
| enikanorov | blogan: right | 14:26 |
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| enikanorov | let's make it an AI so every one will write your vision of what is confusing about existing API | 14:26 |
| blogan | but a lot of us agree that a load balancer instance would be less confusing if not downright sensible | 14:26 |
| sballe | blogan, 100% agree | 14:27 |
| german_ | we should not constrain ourselves by just looking at the existing API | 14:27 |
| sballe | german_, +1 | 14:27 |
| enikanorov | #action outline issues of existing LBaaS API | 14:27 |
| rm_work | for one, it seems like the basic expectation for <Anything>AsAService is "Object of type <Anything>" | 14:27 |
| german_ | markmcclain, you have an example of a good API (not LB) | 14:28 |
| rm_work | so, from a consistency perspective, i think a LB object is a valid assumption for a user | 14:28 |
| markmcclain | I think we need to sketch out what the REST endpoints look like | 14:28 |
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| sbalukoff | ...which brings us back to object discussions? I think we tried starting with that approach... | 14:29 |
| markmcclain | the LB object in most cases is really an implementation detail not something the user cares about | 14:29 |
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| enikanorov | markmcclain: i think it's mostly a concept of 'a unit of configuration' | 14:30 |
| ptoohill | unless hes having to make many calls that could be done in a single call, thus simplifying the work needed to spin up a load balancer | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | something you can turn on/off | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | destroy | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | or change capabilities | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | or migrate | 14:30 |
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| markmcclain | at the simple case a user wants a VIP to be mapped to a set of members | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | i dunno how to apply all these actions without the concept | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | right, but for simple cases existing API is totally ok | 14:31 |
| enikanorov | even if confusing | 14:31 |
| rm_work | i still have problems with our definition of VIP, but i guess it's just me | 14:31 |
| blogan | i would say at the simple case a user wants a load balancer to load balance members | 14:31 |
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| sbalukoff | rm_work: It's *NOT* just you. | 14:31 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov: the current API leaks out what is actually balancing | 14:31 |
| german_ | blogan +1 | 14:31 |
| sballe | blogan, +1 I agree | 14:31 |
| rm_work | sbalukoff: ok good, because i was starting to feel like a broken record whenever VIP came up in conversation... | 14:31 |
| enikanorov | markmcclain: you mean... ? | 14:31 |
| markmcclain | rm_work: what is your issue with the definition? | 14:32 |
| rm_work | VIP has a definition that is widely used: Virtual IP | 14:32 |
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| german_ | ok, so the load balancer is basically an attribute to a "pool of nodes" | 14:32 |
| rm_work | that is very much not the definition we use | 14:32 |
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| markmcclain | rm_work: agreed | 14:33 |
| enikanorov | german_: and that's how existing API works. althouth we call it a Pool | 14:33 |
| sbalukoff | "Virtual IP" is not "virtual IP plus port" :) | 14:33 |
| TrevorV | markmcclain: "implementation detail" or not, if not calling it a "load balancer" what would it be called? "instance" seems extremely vague to me | 14:33 |
| sbalukoff | (In other contexts) | 14:33 |
| markmcclain | that is why crafting a new IP allows us to align with the common usage | 14:33 |
| markmcclain | s/IP/API/ | 14:33 |
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| sbalukoff | markmcclain: Agreed! | 14:34 |
| sballe | +1 | 14:34 |
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| sbalukoff | I think the crux of the problem is that a less-confusing API that most of us here want to create involves the concept of a (probably virtual) load balancer. | 14:35 |
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| sbalukoff | But we're being told that's an implementation detail | 14:35 |
| sbalukoff | Which doesn't seem like it is to me.. | 14:35 |
| blogan | +1 | 14:35 |
| ptoohill | +1 | 14:35 |
| TrevorV | +1 | 14:35 |
| rm_work | I am not sure how it is an implementation detail, it is an entirely logical construct :/ | 14:35 |
| sballe | +1 | 14:35 |
| rm_work | +1 sbalukoff | 14:35 |
| sbalukoff | How one makes a "load balancer" work from an operator perspective is still up to the operator. | 14:35 |
| german_ | there are many ways to load balance, e.g. DNS round robin but to abstract that would be tough | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | Yes, the user needs to understand what the concept of a "load balancer" is. | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | But they're doing a pretty good job understanding what a "router" is and what a "virtual server" is. | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | This doesn't seem like much of a stretch. | 14:36 |
| enikanorov | i was under impression that user was configuring LB appliance and then has moved to the cloud | 14:36 |
| enikanorov | where the same concepts apply, but without knowing your backend | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov: +1 | 14:37 |
| TrevorV | sbalukoff: You're correct, they can understand these things, but a virtual server is called exactly that, not something like "instance" | 14:37 |
| markmcclain | a router is a functional and not necessarily a box | 14:37 |
| german_ | as rmwork said last meeting many of our users are wen developers who just slap a load balancer in front of web servers | 14:37 |
| enikanorov | lb instance is functional as well | 14:37 |
| sbalukoff | markmclain: Exactly! So is a load balancer! | 14:37 |
| jorgem1 | Since I spent a lot of time with parts of the community on the Atlas API I am going to make a proposal using it as a start. I will try to incorporate everything we have in terms of requirements. I would suggest others draft up their version of an API too. | 14:37 |
| markmcclain | jorgem1: sounds like a good place to start | 14:38 |
| rm_work | +1 | 14:38 |
| sballe | jorgem1, +1 | 14:38 |
| enikanorov | jorgem1: cool! | 14:38 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:38 |
| jorgem1 | #action Jorge to create API proposal based off of Atlas API spec. | 14:38 |
| markmcclain | when we're virtualizing functions the important thing is not that we feel compelled to replicate what a physical topology would look like | 14:39 |
| tmc3inphilly | if you do not think load balancer is abstract enough, perhaps we should change the name of the project as well | 14:39 |
| jorgem1 | at least then we can have something to argue about | 14:39 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem1: +1 | 14:39 |
| enikanorov | not sure 'instance' is about physical topology | 14:40 |
| tmc3inphilly | a load balancer is a logical/abstract entity that does not implicate any particular implementation detail | 14:40 |
| jorgem1 | On a side note, only Rackspace and Blue Box Group contributed to the deployment scenario statistics page. Could HP, Mirantis, Ebay/Paypal and others provide their data so we can drill in on what requirements should take priority? | 14:41 |
| enikanorov | yes, that thinking was behind the proposals | 14:41 |
| sbalukoff | At least, no more than a neutron "router" does. | 14:41 |
| enikanorov | jorgem1: Mirantis is not a cloud provider | 14:41 |
| jorgem1 | That should help also in defining the API | 14:41 |
| enikanorov | so we don't have such statistics | 14:41 |
| jorgem1 | Do you all have any stats? | 14:41 |
| jorgem1 | that would help? | 14:41 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov: Yes, anything you can provide to help inform would be useful. | 14:41 |
| jorgem1 | Otherwise, we will be making decisions off the data we do have. | 14:42 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: no such stats, sorry :) | 14:42 |
| sballe | jorgem1, we priotitized the features on the first page. | 14:42 |
| jorgem1 | sballe: I saw that. Thank you. | 14:42 |
| enikanorov | also, please consider clarifying to Sam those spreadsheets | 14:42 |
| sbalukoff | (That is, I assume you have customers, and are involved in load balancing in some way-- what features are they most requesting, or, if they're delivered, considered most vital?) | 14:42 |
| enikanorov | i think Radware has stats also and Sam wanted some clarifications | 14:43 |
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| enikanorov | one of the clarification i can recall is the http+https use case | 14:44 |
| enikanorov | i think this implies no https termination | 14:44 |
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| rm_work | not necessarily? though i'll have to check the context | 14:44 |
| jorgem1 | sbalukoff: Agreed. However, while requested features is good I would argue that actual data is better. Kind of "walk the walk" is better than "talk the talk". | 14:44 |
| sballe | enikanorov, we are more interested in the SSL termination | 14:44 |
| jorgem1 | sbalukoff: If we can get both that would be a plus. | 14:45 |
| enikanorov | sballe: rm_work: i'm talking particularly about having two vips on 1 device | 14:45 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem1: Yep. But even knowing what features they really want is better than nothing, eh. (eg. something like the prioritized list sballe provided) | 14:45 |
| enikanorov | no about https termination itself, which deman is not questioned | 14:45 |
| rm_work | enikanorov: err, but they would have the same IP? so only one VIP | 14:45 |
| jorgem1 | sbalukoff: Agreed. | 14:45 |
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| enikanorov | rm_work: right, one IP, different tcp ports | 14:45 |
| tmc3inphilly | one vip multiple ports? | 14:45 |
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| enikanorov | yes. per current API glossary | 14:46 |
| rm_work | ffff | 14:46 |
| enikanorov | sorry! | 14:46 |
| rm_work | lol | 14:46 |
| enikanorov | may call it listeners | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | Haha | 14:46 |
| rm_work | well anyway, we do have SSL Termination that also has HTTP as well | 14:46 |
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| rm_work | so, listening on HTTP:80 and HTTPS:443 terminated | 14:46 |
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| jorgem1 | I answered this on the ML. | 14:47 |
| rm_work | we call it "mixed-mode" | 14:47 |
| tmc3inphilly | perhaps someone wants to load balance DNS which requires TCP 53 and UDP 53 | 14:47 |
| enikanorov | rm_work: the question was why is that needed for the web app | 14:47 |
| jorgem1 | A lot of sites have mixed content. | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: That's our most common deployment scenario. | 14:47 |
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| rm_work | why it is needed is not really important when we have stats that it is used | 14:47 |
| enikanorov | jorgem1: if you terminate https, then how would site knows? | 14:47 |
| rm_work | the customers do what they need, we don't usually question it :P | 14:47 |
| jorgem1 | I wouldn't do it personally but there are plenty of web sites out there that do. | 14:47 |
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| ptoohill | headers | 14:47 |
| enikanorov | headers, but the connection is actually http, nice | 14:48 |
| ptoohill | indeed | 14:48 |
| rm_work | enikanorov: on the backend, on a private network | 14:48 |
| enikanorov | rm_work: sure | 14:48 |
| rm_work | still prevents MITM | 14:48 |
| enikanorov | ok | 14:48 |
| rm_work | http browse a site -> go to store page -> store pages are over HTTPS | 14:48 |
| jorgem1 | which reminds me…SSL re-encryption should be added to the requirements if it isn't already there. | 14:48 |
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| vjay | Hi All, Would stats from appliance/Vendor side be helpful. That data will be mostly from a "non-cloud" environment. | 14:49 |
| enikanorov | sorry for my ignorance - why not pass it through then? | 14:49 |
| rm_work | also i believe we would need that same setup if we were to put redirect rules in (for HTTP->HTTPS automatic redirect) | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: Yes! | 14:49 |
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| jorgem1 | vjay: Yes! | 14:49 |
| rm_work | enikanorov: need to mangle headers like x-forwarded-for | 14:49 |
| rm_work | can't do that if it | 14:49 |
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| rm_work | is HTTPS passthrough | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: Please put it in the google spreadsheet! | 14:49 |
| ptoohill | user does not want to hand ssl connection in backend | 14:49 |
| enikanorov | ok, got it | 14:49 |
| ptoohill | handle | 14:49 |
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| vjay | I have to get data & clearance though. | 14:49 |
| bbaby | +1 Vijay. We have lb stats data but not necessarily from cloud environment | 14:49 |
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| hvprash | +1 | 14:50 |
| jorgem1 | vjay: Here is the link ==> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar1FuMFYRhgadDVXZ25NM2NfbGtLTkR0TDFNUWJQUWc#gid=0 | 14:50 |
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| sbalukoff | vjay: Please share whatever you're allowed to. :) | 14:50 |
| sbalukoff | Even if it's just a prioritized list of features you need. | 14:50 |
| vjay | sure | 14:50 |
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| jorgem1 | bbaby: Any data is good data right now. It will help us prioritize. | 14:52 |
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| jorgem1 | bbaby: Feel free to add it. | 14:52 |
| bbaby | ok. | 14:52 |
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| bbaby | Also the feature usage on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar1FuMFYRhgadDVXZ25NM2NfbGtLTkR0TDFNUWJQUWc#gid=0 is again specific to cloud ? | 14:52 |
| sbalukoff | And the sooner you can add your data, the better. | 14:53 |
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| enikanorov | i think that beside those features we need not to forget about 'least common denominator' of loadbalancing features | 14:53 |
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| enikanorov | which comes first | 14:53 |
| enikanorov | bbaby: no | 14:53 |
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| jorgem1 | enikanorov: Such as? If they aren't in the requirements we should add them for visibility and clarity. | 14:54 |
| jorgem1 | My idea with the requirements page was to capture everything, no matter how trivial. | 14:54 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:54 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem1: +1 | 14:55 |
| enikanorov | i think the basic features beside 'single vip+single pool' is 'mixed mode', L7 switching and SSL termination | 14:55 |
| rm_work | maybe we can emphasize which are MVP reqs somehow> | 14:55 |
| enikanorov | that was decided at Icehouse summit | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | It's a good idea to have the "definitive list" of the problems we're trying to solve. | 14:55 |
| tmc3inphilly | what about algorithims? | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | Even if some are very obvious. | 14:55 |
| german_ | yes, and then we prioritize | 14:55 |
| sballe | +1 | 14:56 |
| enikanorov | agreed. | 14:56 |
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| markmcclain | enikanorov: at this point we're not bound to previous decisions | 14:56 |
| jorgem1 | Correct, most of the trivial requirements are already met too so those will be easy wins :) | 14:56 |
| enikanorov | markmcclain: right, but some work has been already done, and those features really seem to be basic | 14:56 |
| markmcclain | we can re-examine previous decisions | 14:56 |
| enikanorov | and they are captured in the requirements also | 14:57 |
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| enikanorov | ok, it's nearly a time to end the meeting, do we have something left? | 14:58 |
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| jorgem1 | #action Add "least common denominator" requirements to wiki | 14:58 |
| enikanorov | i think we have a bunch of items to work on | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | Yep. | 14:58 |
| jorgem1 | indeed | 14:58 |
| german_ | jorgem1 please call it MVP | 14:58 |
| rm_work | i will try to be on the ML more... | 14:58 |
| sballe | same here | 14:59 |
| jorgem1 | german_: Shoot…how do you update an action item? | 14:59 |
| enikanorov | yes please, meeting is too short to discuss everything in detail | 14:59 |
| sbalukoff | Ditto... once I get freed up from being pulled into heartbleed work. XD | 14:59 |
| enikanorov | so please use ML, wiki, paste.openstack.org, and everything that helps to illustrate your ideas | 14:59 |
| blogan | double ditto | 14:59 |
| jorgem1 | sbalukoff: Oh heartbleed. We had some fun too :) | 14:59 |
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| enikanorov | thanks everyone for joining the meeting! | 15:00 |
| jorgem1 | Thanks! | 15:00 |
| enikanorov | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 10 15:00:22 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| sballe | thanks | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-04-10-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-04-10-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-04-10-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
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| mtreinish | #startmeeting qa | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 10 17:00:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:00 |
| mtreinish | Hi who do we have here today? | 17:00 |
| dwalleck | o/ | 17:00 |
| mtreinish | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Proposed_Agenda_for_April_10_2014_.281700_UTC.29 | 17:00 |
| mtreinish | ^^^ Today's agenda | 17:00 |
| afazekas | o/ | 17:00 |
| dkranz | o/ | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | well I guess it'll be a quicker meeting today | 17:01 |
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| mtreinish | but let's get started | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | #topic Summit sessions (mtreinish) | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit sessions (mtreinish) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| mtreinish | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Juno-QA-design-summit-topics | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | so I just wanted to bring up the summit sessions again | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | the deadline for submissions in the tool is the 20th | 17:02 |
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| mtreinish | I was planning to discuss the sessions people put on the etherpad the meeting after the deadline | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | so I just wanted to remind people to put things in the tool too | 17:03 |
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| mtreinish | if no one has any questions about that we can move on to the next topic | 17:03 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: ok | 17:04 |
| mtreinish | #topic Blueprints | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:04 | |
| mtreinish | So I think we'll hold off on discussing the specs review until sdague is around (he said he'd miss the first part of the meeting) | 17:05 |
| sdague | mtreinish: actually, I'm free at the moment | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | oh ok | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | then go ahead | 17:05 |
| sdague | here is the branchless-tempest qa-spec draft - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86577/ | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86577/ | 17:06 |
| sdague | it's a summary of what's been discussed, as well as a bunch of specific scenarios. I was hoping to get rounds of feedback today on it. | 17:06 |
| mtreinish | yep I'm working on some comments on it | 17:07 |
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| mtreinish | that'll be a good one of the first 4 to get merged | 17:07 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Do you think a "plan for havana" should be part of that or separate? | 17:07 |
| dkranz | sdague: I made a few comments about it in review. | 17:08 |
| sdague | dkranz: I feel like havana is still up for debate relative to the amount of work it would be | 17:08 |
| sdague | so I think that would be a second qa-spec | 17:08 |
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| sdague | this is the basic path for icehouse, then we have the decision on whether we believe backport to havana is useful to do before havana expires | 17:08 |
| dkranz | sdague: That depends. It could be that just skipping what does not work would be enough to start. | 17:09 |
| sdague | dkranz: definitely | 17:09 |
| sdague | dkranz: actually, you want to take the pen on the havana spec, as you've got most of the data | 17:09 |
| dkranz | sdague: And upstream is willing to discard releases much more rapidly than many users are so we have to be careful | 17:09 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes, I can do that. | 17:10 |
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| sdague | great | 17:10 |
| dkranz | sdague: I will do both that and no-admin spec before EOD tomorrow. | 17:11 |
| sdague | #action dkranz to write up qa-spec on havana/stable testing with tempest master | 17:11 |
| sdague | sounds good to me | 17:11 |
| sdague | that's all I had unless there are questions | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | ok, I wanted to point out that sdague moved all the open non-high prio bps on lp back to new from whatever status they were at | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | in preperation for using the specs repo for Juno | 17:12 |
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| mtreinish | but that still leaves 4 open high prio bps | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | for Icehouse | 17:12 |
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| mtreinish | I think we can close 2 of them soon after Juno opens | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | the unit test one I plan to close at release | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | and the neutron full gating one should be turned on soon after Juno opens | 17:13 |
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| sdague | sounds good | 17:14 |
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| mtreinish | and andrea has a spec for the multiauth already | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | so that just leaves: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/tempest-heat-integration | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | sdague: do you know what the status of that is? | 17:15 |
| sdague | yeh, I think once we open the qa-specs repo for more general consumption, we should ask the heat folks to redo that as a spec | 17:15 |
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| sdague | it's not really specific enough to track at this point honestly | 17:15 |
| mtreinish | ok | 17:15 |
| mtreinish | makes sense | 17:15 |
| mtreinish | does anyone else have any blueprints they wanted to bring up or discuss? | 17:16 |
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| mtreinish | ok then let's move on to the next topic | 17:17 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Neutron testing | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:17 | |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: are you around? | 17:17 |
| mlavalle | hi | 17:17 |
| mtreinish | are there any updates on neutron testing? | 17:17 |
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| mlavalle | we have continued making progress with api testing. ASt this point we have merged 20 pathcsets out of 28 we are tracking | 17:18 |
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| mlavalle | e also recovered the 5 patchsets that were abandoned and they are being actively worked on | 17:18 |
| mlavalle | so we are in good shape to complete the coverage we defined at the beginning of Icehouse | 17:18 |
| mlavalle | this week I have also been working with yfried on a plan for scenario tests for Juno | 17:19 |
| mlavalle | we want to create a blueprint with the scanerios we want to implement in Juno | 17:19 |
| sdague | mlavalle: great, please submit that to the qa-specs repo, that's how we're doing review on these | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: yeah you can go ahead and push a spec to the qa-specs repo for that when you're ready | 17:19 |
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| dkranz | mlavalle: Great! | 17:19 |
| mlavalle | and would like to have a session in Atlanta to review them with the team and get a buy in from both the Neutron and Tempest teams | 17:20 |
| mlavalle | once we achieve that, we will send an email to the ML inviting people to implemet the specified tests | 17:20 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: Please add it to the etherpad | 17:20 |
| mlavalle | and track them throuout Juno | 17:20 |
| mlavalle | Yes, I will add the session to the summit etherpad | 17:20 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: ok well propose the session in the tool but also add it to the etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Juno-QA-design-summit-topics | 17:21 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Juno-QA-design-summit-topics | 17:21 |
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| mlavalle | and will bring the proposal to the Neutron IRC meeting next Monday | 17:21 |
| mlavalle | that's all I have | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: ok cool, thanks | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | does anyone have anything else to discuss about neutron testing? | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | ok, then lets move on | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | #topic Heat testing | 17:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:22 | |
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| mtreinish | so I've seen a few heat patches in progress recently | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | sdague: you were the one who asked for this to be a regular topic | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | so do you have any updates? | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | stevebaker: is there anything worth mentioning on the heat tempest front? | 17:24 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: there are a few in flight | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | ok well I guess we can move on then :) | 17:25 |
| sdague | but nothing major right now | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | sdague: ok | 17:25 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Bugs | 17:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:25 | |
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| mtreinish | So I haven't looked at the numbers lately but I was doing a little triage earlier this week | 17:26 |
| mtreinish | it seems pretty tame | 17:26 |
| mtreinish | does anyone have any bugs that they'd like to bring up? | 17:26 |
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| mtreinish | ok then let's move on | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | #topic | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:27 | |
| mtreinish | Critical Reviews | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | well I failed there... | 17:27 |
| afazekas | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86265/ | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | #topic Critical Reviews | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:27 | |
| mtreinish | I have one today too: | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86174/ | 17:28 |
| mlavalle | I have a couple that only need one more +2 to merge | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: I think there is an oslo thing to do that | 17:28 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/66259 | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | save and reraise or something like that | 17:28 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/66541 | 17:29 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: It does the opsite as I remember | 17:29 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/66259 | 17:29 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/66541 | 17:29 |
| afazekas | s/opsite/opposite/ | 17:29 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: ok I'll take a closer look | 17:29 |
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| mtreinish | mlavalle: I'll put those on my list for today | 17:30 |
| mlavalle | thanks! :-) | 17:31 |
| mtreinish | Does anyone else have any reviews? | 17:31 |
| mtreinish | ok then let's open up the floor | 17:32 |
| mtreinish | #topic open discussion | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:32 | |
| afazekas | #link old https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84533/ | 17:32 |
| afazekas | #link old https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78345/ | 17:32 |
| mtreinish | ok does anyone have any topics they would like to discuss? | 17:33 |
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| mtreinish | ok well then I guess we'll call it a meeting early today | 17:34 |
| mtreinish | thanks everyone | 17:34 |
| mlavalle | this was a quicj one | 17:34 |
| mtreinish | #endmeeting | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 10 17:34:56 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-04-10-17.00.html | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-04-10-17.00.txt | 17:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-04-10-17.00.log.html | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: yeah a nice change to wrap up the cycle | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | because we've been running long for the past few weeks | 17:35 |
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| mlavalle | yeap | 17:35 |
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| nkinder | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 10 18:00:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is nkinder. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
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| nkinder | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
| shohel02 | hi | 18:01 |
| nkinder | Hi all. Who do we have here for the Security Group meeting? | 18:01 |
| nkinder | It might be a quiet meeting today. I believe that bdpayne is traveling, and hyakuhei had a conflict. | 18:02 |
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| nkinder | hi malini1 | 18:02 |
| malini1 | present! | 18:02 |
| nkinder | ok, only a few of us today it seems | 18:03 |
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| nkinder | #topic Agenda | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:03 | |
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| nkinder | I have a few items today - OSSNs and security auditing of projects | 18:04 |
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| nkinder | Does anyone have any other topics? Anything on the threat assessment shohel02? | 18:04 |
| shohel02 | yes i would like to point some update | 18:05 |
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| nkinder | or updates from anyone working on the security guidelines? | 18:05 |
| nkinder | shohel02: ok, let's start with you then | 18:05 |
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| malini1 | nkinder: good work on shooting an OSSN on the OpenSSL Heartbeat | 18:05 |
| nkinder | #topic Threat Assessment | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Threat Assessment (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:05 | |
| shohel02 | definitely the OSSN was excellent | 18:05 |
| shohel02 | Now related to Threat analysis | 18:06 |
| shohel02 | Cristian has also started working with Nova Analysis | 18:06 |
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| shohel02 | We have discussion last week among Cristian, Bknudson and me, Bdpayne | 18:06 |
| shohel02 | We are working on keystone | 18:07 |
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| shohel02 | the issue is how to store and disseminate them | 18:07 |
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| shohel02 | we are thinking of some common repository and control | 18:07 |
| shohel02 | any ideas ? | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | shohel02, personally i like that. | 18:07 |
| nkinder | Ok, so a separate repository? What form will they ultimately take? | 18:07 |
| shohel02 | Can we have some common GIT repo | 18:07 |
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| nkinder | Is this doing to end up as standalone papers, or be rolled up into a book? | 18:08 |
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| shohel02 | All the reports | 18:08 |
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| shohel02 | End would be by combing all the current reports form some guides | 18:08 |
| shohel02 | Not sure yet | 18:08 |
| nkinder | For repos, it needs to live under a program (or it can be stackforge) | 18:08 |
| malini1 | does it makes sense to be somethign like OSSN under docs like nkinder set up | 18:09 |
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| nkinder | With the OSSN repo, we put it under the Documentation program. We'd need their buy-in on this. | 18:09 |
| nkinder | So we might want to skip to dissemination to see if that's a good fit. | 18:09 |
| CristianF | as we discussed probably something similar to the new OSSN approach | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, i think stackforge is the wrong place. I'd say this belongs under documentation (if they don't mind it living there) | 18:09 |
| nkinder | How will these ultimately be published? Do we see them being part of the Security Guide, or standalone? | 18:10 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: I tend to agree. | 18:10 |
| malini1 | i am seeing this as feeding in security guide, future design, .. | 18:11 |
| nkinder | shohel02: We can discuss this with annegentle, but we'll want to discuss how they end up getting published to make a decision. | 18:11 |
| shohel02 | yes, sounds good | 18:11 |
| nkinder | shohel02: I'd recommend starting a mail thread on the security list and cc annegentle | 18:11 |
| shohel02 | ok, i will do that | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | I would expect the security guide to reference it, likely it should also be standalone for ease of finding/consuming it. | 18:11 |
| nkinder | yeah, it might even be a standalone guide (or separate reports) | 18:12 |
| nkinder | lots of ways we can go here | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, ++ | 18:12 |
| nkinder | ok, anything else on that topic? | 18:12 |
| shohel02 | another thing is about quality control | 18:12 |
| shohel02 | How to ensure that? | 18:12 |
| nkinder | shohel02: at what level? Writing, or technical contents? | 18:13 |
| nkinder | or both? :) | 18:13 |
| shohel02 | I think both | 18:13 |
| shohel02 | but mainly technical content | 18:13 |
| shohel02 | should we set up some team | 18:13 |
| shohel02 | if interested | 18:13 |
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| nkinder | For writing/format, we can leverage the doc gate jobs depending on the format we use. | 18:13 |
| nkinder | Technical content would be handled by reviews (which we can use gerrit for if we have a repo) | 18:14 |
| nkinder | I would say that we'll need to involve interested developers from each project when working on the report for said project. | 18:14 |
| shohel02 | thats sounds good | 18:14 |
| nkinder | ok, next topic | 18:14 |
| nkinder | #topic OSSNs | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSNs (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:15 | |
| nkinder | I pushed a few OSSNs out over the last week, including the Heartbleed one last night/this morning | 18:15 |
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| nkinder | The review system is working nicely thus far. It's much nicer than the informal process we had before. | 18:15 |
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| nkinder | chair6 (not present) has another one out for review | 18:16 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: that OSSN is for Keystone, and we'd like a keystone-core to review it | 18:16 |
| nkinder | morganfainberg: if you have a chance, it's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85441/ | 18:17 |
| nkinder | If not, I'll try to wrangle someone else into doing it. | 18:17 |
| nkinder | There are a few other OSSNs in the backlog if anyone wants to volunteer... (nudge nudge) | 18:17 |
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| nkinder | ok, if nothing more on OSSNs... | 18:18 |
| nkinder | #topic Security auditing of projects | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security auditing of projects (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:18 | |
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| malini1 | :-) how does pull just OSSNs from review system | 18:19 |
| nkinder | malini1: you can monitor the one specific repo. let me grab a link | 18:19 |
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| nkinder | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-security-notes,n,z | 18:19 |
| malini1 | thank you nkinder | 18:19 |
| nkinder | For anyone who wants to monitor those, you can set up your gerrit prefs to watch the openstack-security-notes project. | 18:20 |
| nkinder | I've started an effort on security auditing of OpenStack projects within the development teams | 18:20 |
| nkinder | This isn't really an OSSG effort, but its something we can help provide feedback on I think. | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, i'll look at it | 18:21 |
| paulmo | How is that going btw? I have extremely difficult time getting security traction in dev teams. | 18:21 |
| nkinder | The basics are that each project should keep track of some basic security info on a release by release basis. | 18:21 |
| nkinder | paulmo: Very good actually. | 18:22 |
| nkinder | I brought it up with all of the PTLs on Monday, and there is a lot of interest | 18:22 |
| paulmo | Good to hear! | 18:22 |
| nkinder | I started for Keystone, and Heat produced a first pass as well. Let me grab some examples for folks | 18:22 |
| nkinder | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Keystone | 18:22 |
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| nkinder | So that's an example I produced for Keystone. You can get an idea of what info I would like to cover. | 18:23 |
| nkinder | The ultimate goal is that it should be easy for someone to look at a set of documents to find out what crypto is used, why it is used, and how sensitive data is handled for a given OpenStack release. | 18:24 |
| CristianF | I think this is related, being in Heat meeting yesterday there discussion there of generating this Decurity Documentation wiki for Heat | 18:24 |
| nkinder | Yes, Heat has a page now too. Grabbing it... | 18:24 |
| nkinder | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Heat | 18:24 |
| paulmo | nkinder: Might add the key length of AES in there (maybe I'm just missing it) | 18:24 |
| malini1 | nkinder: Nice! | 18:24 |
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| nkinder | Neutron is interested too, so I'll be working with them to get it started. | 18:25 |
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| nkinder | I'll kep the group updated on how this is going, but it's been great to see the interest from the project teams thus far. It's just ironing out the details right now. | 18:25 |
| paulmo | Also, the PRNG source would be good (maybe I'm missing it again) | 18:26 |
| nkinder | paulmo: good call on the key length (will look into it) | 18:26 |
| nkinder | paulmo: this is exactly where I thin the OSSG can help. Reviewing the docs and asking questions so we can make sure they are complete. | 18:26 |
| paulmo | Love what you are doing though! :) | 18:26 |
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| nkinder | #topic Open Discussion | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:27 | |
| nkinder | Anyone have anything else to discuss? | 18:27 |
| paulmo | I do have a few thoughts if you'll bare with me | 18:27 |
| nkinder | paulmo: sure thing | 18:27 |
| paulmo | What would the team think of trying to get some basic security requirements and reporting as part of the incubation requirements to give OSSG some more "teeth"? | 18:28 |
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| nkinder | paulmo: I think it's a nice medium/long term goal. | 18:28 |
| malini1 | nkinder: on ML thre was a discussion to replace MD5 with sha1/2 with longer key | 18:28 |
| paulmo | Yep, certainly not short term. :) And also, a TC security representative position. That is my other thought to bring security up to be a first class OpenStack citizen. | 18:29 |
| nkinder | paulmo: That's part of establishing the security guidelines first. | 18:29 |
| * paulmo nods. Just bringing up some thoughts I've been having. It certainly isn't a "right now" thing. :) | 18:29 | |
| nkinder | paulmo: the other tough thing is seeing if the current integrated projects meet the requirements (which is one of the reasons we need to see what the current state of things is) | 18:29 |
| nkinder | paulmo: yeah, I want to get there too. | 18:30 |
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| paulmo | Yeah, excellent point. Core projects need to be compliant and leaders for the rest of the projects. | 18:30 |
| nkinder | malini1: yes, replacing md5 for token hashing is in review for Juno for Keystone | 18:30 |
| nkinder | ok, we're out of time | 18:30 |
| nkinder | sorry to cut folks off, but we need to clear out. Thanks everyone! | 18:31 |
| malini1 | out of time?! whoosh | 18:31 |
| malini1 | :-) | 18:31 |
| CristianF | thanks, bye | 18:31 |
| nkinder | we need an hour :) | 18:31 |
| shohel02 | ok thanks nkinder | 18:31 |
| nkinder | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 10 18:31:23 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-04-10-18.00.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-04-10-18.00.txt | 18:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-04-10-18.00.log.html | 18:31 |
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| * russellb gives another minute or so for people to join for nova meeting | 21:00 | |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 10 21:01:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
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| russellb | hi! anyone around for the nova meeting today? | 21:01 |
| mrodden1 | heya | 21:01 |
| dansmith | yar | 21:01 |
| dripton | hi | 21:01 |
| leifz | I'm around. | 21:01 |
| alaski | o/ | 21:01 |
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| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:01 |
| melwitt | o/ | 21:01 |
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| russellb | cool, hi all :) | 21:02 |
| russellb | #topic icehouse-rc | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-rc (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| russellb | we put out RC2 for Nova yesterday | 21:02 |
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| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/icehouse-rc2 | 21:02 |
| dansmith | woo! | 21:02 |
| russellb | right now we have no plans for an RC3 | 21:02 |
| russellb | unless the sky falls | 21:02 |
| russellb | basically, would take a serious show stopped at this point | 21:02 |
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| mriedem | hi | 21:03 |
| russellb | but please let me know if anything comes up that may qualify | 21:03 |
| russellb | otherwise, feel free to tag bugs with icehouse-backport-potential | 21:03 |
| russellb | and fixes can be backported and go out in a stable update | 21:03 |
| russellb | any comments/questions on icehouse? | 21:03 |
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| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:04 | |
| russellb | any bugs we should discuss today? | 21:04 |
| russellb | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova | 21:04 |
| russellb | 0 open critical bugs it seems, so that's a plus. | 21:04 |
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| russellb | tjones: anything from the bug meeting? | 21:05 |
| tjones | russellb: no nothing looked critical. im just taking another quick look | 21:05 |
| tjones | at untagged | 21:05 |
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| russellb | OK | 21:05 |
| mriedem | sort of related, any minesweeper news? | 21:06 |
| tjones | nothing jumps out as a rc blocker. | 21:06 |
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| tjones | sooo close.... | 21:06 |
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| russellb | k, sounds good! | 21:06 |
| tjones | not fixed thought | 21:06 |
| tjones | i'll give you a better update in 5 minutes | 21:07 |
| russellb | k, will move on for now then | 21:07 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:07 | |
| russellb | blueprint review for juno in full swing | 21:07 |
| russellb | please join in the review fun in the nova-specs repo | 21:07 |
| russellb | any blueprints folks want to discuss in meeting? | 21:07 |
| mriedem | no one wants to talk about anything today | 21:08 |
| russellb | it's the "i'm tired from icehouse, leave me alone" phase | 21:08 |
| russellb | that's OK. | 21:08 |
| dansmith | yeah :) | 21:08 |
| dansmith | mriedem: don't poke the hornet's nest :) | 21:08 |
| mriedem | oh i'll poke alright | 21:08 |
| russellb | #link open discussion | 21:08 |
| mriedem | i had an agenda item | 21:09 |
| russellb | mriedem: you had something for this at least | 21:09 |
| mriedem | deprecating nova-manage subcommands | 21:09 |
| mriedem | how do we do that | 21:09 |
| mriedem | ? | 21:09 |
| russellb | set it on fire | 21:09 |
| russellb | i mean .. | 21:09 |
| mriedem | put something in the command for a release and send a note to the operators list? | 21:09 |
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| russellb | emit a deprecated message when used, ensure it's covered in release notes | 21:09 |
| russellb | and then can remove the next release | 21:09 |
| mriedem | k | 21:09 |
| russellb | IMO | 21:09 |
| dansmith | +1 | 21:09 |
| mriedem | my plan was subcommand by subcommand | 21:09 |
| mriedem | not all | 21:09 |
| russellb | agreed | 21:09 |
| mrodden | comstud had a good point about wanting to configure before bringing up the API | 21:09 |
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| russellb | we can go ahead and create the ReleaseNotes/Juno wiki page | 21:09 |
| russellb | keep notes along the way | 21:10 |
| russellb | helps with making sure we don't forget stuff like this | 21:10 |
| dansmith | mrodden: I think we've mostly been going for "do it through the API unless it's impossible" | 21:10 |
| mriedem | mrodden: but you don't need to configure flavors before the API comes up do you? | 21:10 |
| mrodden | if you have no pre existing ones | 21:10 |
| dansmith | mrodden: cells being something you can't configure after the API | 21:10 |
| mriedem | mrodden: the flavors subcommand is a good example, completely covered in novaclient | 21:10 |
| mrodden | yeah | 21:10 |
| russellb | bringing up an API endpoint can be different from bringing up a public API endpoint | 21:11 |
| mriedem | i wouldn't be touching db, service type subcommands right now | 21:11 |
| russellb | so meh | 21:11 |
| mrodden | yeah | 21:11 |
| russellb | *admin* API endpoint i mean | 21:11 |
| mrodden | API =/= public API i guess | 21:11 |
| dansmith | yeah | 21:11 |
| russellb | right | 21:11 |
| mrodden | should be doing all the setup with config managment anyways | 21:12 |
| mrodden | so it *should* be configured already | 21:12 |
| mriedem | mrodden: unless your cookbooks are 3 years old :P | 21:12 |
| mrodden | sounds like a personal problem... err wait | 21:12 |
| russellb | so, there's some elections happening. | 21:13 |
| russellb | you should vote. | 21:13 |
| russellb | ends tomorrow. | 21:13 |
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| russellb | anything else for today? | 21:14 |
| tjones | rc minesweeper - they are working on the last step to getting it back up as we speak. fingers crossed we are hours away from it working again | 21:14 |
| tjones | s/rc/re | 21:14 |
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| mriedem | cool | 21:14 |
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| mikal | There's a few third party CIs in a bad state to be honest | 21:14 |
| mikal | I don't think minesweeper is alone | 21:14 |
| russellb | tjones: curious what the root cause of the downtime has been? | 21:14 |
| russellb | tjones: anything we should be working on in nova? or something environment/planning specific? | 21:14 |
| tjones | the upgrade from grizzly to havana. we have a few bugs from that | 21:14 |
| mriedem | mikal: yeah, i just know of a vmware fix with several +2s lined up waiting for a CI vote | 21:15 |
| russellb | tjones: vmware bugs, or general nova bugs? | 21:15 |
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| russellb | fwiw, despite some rough spots, I'm still very happy with the 3rd party CI progress in Icehouse | 21:15 |
| tjones | i can give more details on the ML - i think they are vmware bugs. but i want to be sure. there are 2 bugs waiting on minesweeper and they are going to do a manual run (but have been focused on getting the )(#%&*)($ thing up) | 21:15 |
| russellb | it's a long way from where we were 6 months ago | 21:15 |
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| russellb | this stuff is really hard | 21:15 |
| mikal | russellb: has anyone chased the hyper-v ci guys recently? | 21:16 |
| russellb | mikal: yes | 21:16 |
| mriedem | mikal: yesterday | 21:16 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy and I have pinged the Xen peoples | 21:16 |
| mriedem | they were hitting zuul merge conflict problems | 21:16 |
| mikal | Are the hyper-v people using zuul? | 21:16 |
| mriedem | mikal: apparently | 21:17 |
| mikal | Ok, that's actually harder than it looks. The zuul git repo used for merging has some confusing behaviours. | 21:17 |
| dansmith | the last time this particular problem came up, they were corrupting their git somehow | 21:17 |
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| dansmith | which caused the merge messages, IIRC | 21:17 |
| mikal | We had issues with the git repo zuul uses being in a weird state too in about January | 21:17 |
| mikal | It turns out the infra team has a script they can use to work around | 21:17 |
| mikal | That repo isn't meant to be clonable, if that's what they're trying to do | 21:18 |
| mriedem | i know at least at one time alexpilotti was working with the infra guys on the zuul issues | 21:18 |
| mriedem | so assuming hyperv team has at least the same workaround | 21:18 |
| mriedem | but not certain | 21:18 |
| mikal | Ok | 21:18 |
| mikal | Who were you talking to about it and I'll reach out and ask | 21:18 |
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| mriedem | alexpilotti: | 21:18 |
| mikal | OK | 21:19 |
| russellb | i thought i saw it pass on a patch today? | 21:19 |
| russellb | yeah, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86643/ | 21:19 |
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| alexpilotti | hi guys | 21:19 |
| russellb | so hopefully restored now | 21:19 |
| mikal | http://www.rcbops.com/gerrit/reports/nova-cireport.html is what I am looking at | 21:19 |
| alexpilotti | we fixed the zuul issue today | 21:19 |
| mriedem | ah cool | 21:19 |
| mikal | Excellent | 21:19 |
| alexpilotti | the file system on the zuul server had issues and went read only | 21:20 |
| russellb | darn computers | 21:20 |
| mikal | For reference, neutron seems to be having exactly the same issues with third party CI reliability, so this isn't just us | 21:20 |
| alexpilotti | well, Linux :-) | 21:20 |
| russellb | ha | 21:20 |
| alexpilotti | (kidding :-D) | 21:20 |
| russellb | well played | 21:20 |
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| * dansmith sprays alexpilotti with the hose | 21:20 | |
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| alexpilotti | anyway, zuul has the habit of reporting a slightly misleading error | 21:21 |
| alexpilotti | about needing to rebase, whatever happens | 21:21 |
| tjones | want to take a quick look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1305423 to make sure there is no regression here? | 21:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1305423 in nova "nova libvirt re-write broken with mulitiple ephemeral disks" [Undecided,New] | 21:21 |
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| alexpilotti | would it be worth syncing with the infra guys to see how to improve the error reporting in case of zuul issues? | 21:22 |
| dansmith | alexpilotti: sure | 21:23 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: jhesketh has done some stuff there | 21:23 |
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| mikal | We wanted merge fails reported separately from test fails for example | 21:23 |
| mikal | So it might be worth chatting to him about your issues as well | 21:23 |
| alexpilotti | mikal: we’re also working on a tool based on your ci hacks for reporting: http://91.232.152.172/ | 21:23 |
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| russellb | tjones: hm, no indication there that it's a regression | 21:24 |
| alexpilotti | wondering if it’s the case to join forces and do something together for the community | 21:24 |
| comstud | computers are hard | 21:24 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: have you seen the new reports we generate? | 21:24 |
| russellb | tjones: also not a common use case i think, so i don't think i'd block on it at this point | 21:24 |
| russellb | tjones: thanks for raising it | 21:24 |
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| alexpilotti | mikal: this one? #link http://www.rcbops.com/gerrit/reports/nova-cireport.html | 21:24 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: http://www.rcbops.com/gerrit/reports/nova-cireport.html | 21:24 |
| mikal | Yeah | 21:24 |
| tjones | russellb: ok good. wasn't sure if that used to work - it does seem like a corner case | 21:24 |
| alexpilotti | yep, what we need is also the performance over time | 21:25 |
| mikal | So we do graphing now too... I personally feel those line graphs are very hard to read -- we played with them for a while before giving up on them | 21:25 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: oh, I see | 21:25 |
| alexpilotti | with a minimum of drill up / down | 21:25 |
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| mikal | alexpilotti: I'd actually like to feed this data into a time series database and let people do alerting on it | 21:25 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: i.e. CI authors get an email when their fail rate is higher than jenkins' for example | 21:25 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: but that's a work in progress | 21:26 |
| alexpilotti | mikal: what about an official db with some API where anybody can read the raw events data and build any reporting on top? | 21:26 |
| alexpilotti | mikal: reading directly the zuul stream is a bit far from optimal :-) | 21:27 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: well, I guess we have that in the form of gerrit now, but I agree its hard to query | 21:27 |
| alexpilotti | and if your ssh connection goes down, you lose events that need to be queried again, etc | 21:27 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: oh, you know that we have an on disk archive of the event stream right? | 21:28 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: it lags reality by 15 minutes, but we've tried hard to make it reliable | 21:28 |
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| alexpilotti | mikal: can you send me some pointers? we’re now also using an historical source, have to check from where, might simply be your site :-) | 21:29 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: http://www.rcbops.com/gerrit/merged/2014/4/ is this month | 21:29 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: the archive goes back to May last year, which is when I started thinking about building turbo hipster | 21:30 |
| alexpilotti | mikal: yep, that’s what we use :-) | 21:30 |
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| mikal | alexpilotti: heh, its good to have a customer! | 21:30 |
| alexpilotti | heh | 21:30 |
| mikal | Well, we can chat more about this offline I suppose | 21:30 |
| alexpilotti | we can start a beers subscription! | 21:30 |
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| alexpilotti | last question: what about moving it to something.openstack.org? | 21:31 |
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| mikal | alexpilotti: I don't have a problem with that, but I'd need to talk to infra about if they're willing to run it | 21:31 |
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| dansmith | alexpilotti: do you mean a DNS entry, or actual hosting of it? | 21:32 |
| alexpilotti | dansmith: both | 21:32 |
| dansmith | alexpilotti: I think the infra folks could just point a name at your IP if you're interested | 21:32 |
| dansmith | okay | 21:32 |
| mikal | Hmmm, a DNS pointer is another option | 21:32 |
| alexpilotti | mostly for the community endorsement | 21:32 |
| dansmith | alexpilotti: maybe a dns name is a good way to start | 21:32 |
| alexpilotti | say that the site goes down at… 3am in mikal’s timezone | 21:33 |
| dansmith | awesomesauce.openstack.org -> 91.232.152.172/ | 21:33 |
| alexpilotti | how do we handle that? | 21:33 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: we ping infra in IRC | 21:33 |
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| alexpilotti | mikal: meaning that they have admin access to http://www.rcbops.com/ ? | 21:33 |
| mikal | But I suspect if its a thing people rely on, we shuold probably talk about if the foundation wants to host it | 21:33 |
| mikal | alexpilotti: we'd have to move to different instances to do that, www.rcbops.com hosts lots of other random thigns as well | 21:34 |
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| alexpilotti | mikal: that’s what I’m suggesting (if the foundation agrees on supporting this of course) | 21:34 |
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| mikal | alexpilotti: for sure. How about we chat with thema bout it at the summit? | 21:35 |
| alexpilotti | ok, great plan! | 21:35 |
| alexpilotti | maybe a design session on this? | 21:35 |
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| russellb | it'd be an infra one, but seems reasonable | 21:35 |
| alexpilotti | including data + reporting tools? | 21:35 |
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| mikal | Reporting is a thing, so sure | 21:36 |
| russellb | any other topics for today? otherwise we can just close the meeting | 21:37 |
| russellb | alrighty, have a nice weekend everyone! | 21:38 |
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| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 10 21:38:31 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-04-10-21.01.html | 21:38 |
| mikal | Laters | 21:38 |
| alexpilotti | tx guys! | 21:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-04-10-21.01.txt | 21:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-04-10-21.01.log.html | 21:38 |
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| cyeoh | Nova API meeting starting in #openstack-meeting in a minute | 23:59 |
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