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| open_met | please any one help me to configure the backup for the openstack multi-node | 13:01 |
|---|---|---|
| open_met | please suggest me any method to configure the backup | 13:02 |
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| sc68cal | Good morning | 14:01 |
| aveiga | o/ | 14:01 |
| baoli | Hi | 14:01 |
| xuhanp | good morning | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 14:02:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:02 |
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| sc68cal | #topic recap last meetings actions | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "recap last meetings actions (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:02 | |
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| sc68cal | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-18-14.00.html | 14:02 |
| sc68cal | So - the only actions we had for last week was for me to refresh the review | 14:03 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52983/ | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | I have a new patchset that adds the validation of combos, and updates the alembic script | 14:03 |
| xuhanp | seems like we need another upgrade | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | I plan on pushing it to gerrit today - I just want to make sure I don't have any silly mistakes that forces me to spam gerrit with little fixes ;) | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | like pep8, etc... | 14:04 |
| shshang | Hi, guys | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | #topic code review | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code review (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:05 | |
| sc68cal | We have a bit of happy news to report | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | the neutron VIF hairpin patch has landed in Nova | 14:06 |
| shshang | cool | 14:06 |
| baoli | cool | 14:06 |
| aveiga | +1 | 14:06 |
| xuhanp | great! | 14:06 |
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| sc68cal | #info merge window for I-3 is March 4th | 14:07 |
| aveiga | that is way too close | 14:07 |
| sc68cal | I believe the next high priority patch is xuhanp's patch that limits the scope of RAs allowed to ports | 14:07 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, is there any way to speed up the current reviews? I also have the client code submitted yesterday based on the two mode design | 14:08 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: that's great - do you have a link to the client code review? | 14:08 |
| xuhanp | yes. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75871/ | 14:09 |
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| xuhanp | Jenkins fails because your code is not merged yet. | 14:09 |
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| xuhanp | for the RA security group patch, I opened a bug and submitted code review to address baoli's comment | 14:10 |
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| xuhanp | but the approach is debatable | 14:10 |
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| xuhanp | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/ | 14:10 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, I saw that | 14:10 |
| xuhanp | hope that can speed up the process to address your comment, baoli | 14:11 |
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| dane_leblanc | xuhanp, maybe marking the other bug as a dependency would get jenkins to pass? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gerrit_Workflow#Add_dependency | 14:11 |
| xuhanp | dane_leblanc, I didn't know we can do that for two projects. Can we? | 14:12 |
| sc68cal | I don't know if it works cross project either. | 14:12 |
| dane_leblanc | D'oh, I don't think so. | 14:12 |
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| sc68cal | would be very helpful :) | 14:12 |
| baoli | xuhanp, my only concern is this: the gateway address is used to establish (default) route. But in the case of ipv6, it's used to create a iptables rule which has a specific requirement on the address. | 14:12 |
| xuhanp | baoli, any suggestion to address this? | 14:13 |
| baoli | xuhanp, maybe it should be explicitly addressed by the security group API? | 14:13 |
| aveiga | baoli: do you have a use case where this is an issue? | 14:14 |
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| baoli | well, I just felt that it's not a proper way to do so as xuhanp indicated it's debatable | 14:15 |
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| baoli | I haven't be able to spend time on the security group api last week. | 14:15 |
| aveiga | so for the sake of working v6 in icehouse, can we push it through and file a bug against it to pull it back to SG API for Juno? | 14:16 |
| sc68cal | My concern is that the -1 is preventing this review from being seen by core | 14:16 |
| sc68cal | they usually filter reviews that have a -1 | 14:16 |
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| baoli | I can give a +1 | 14:16 |
| sc68cal | perfect - thank you | 14:17 |
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| sc68cal | Any new blueprints? | 14:18 |
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| baoli | Another concern is that the routing guideline/principle requires that the gateway ip is on the same subnet. Does it apply to IPv6 as well? | 14:18 |
| aveiga | baoli: I think we covered this before, perhaps on the ML? | 14:18 |
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| aveiga | Someone brought that up and I showed them the use case of GUA subnet but LLA gateway | 14:19 |
| xuhanp | baoli, this is allowed if you set the con right. | 14:19 |
| aveiga | they were OK with it | 14:19 |
| xuhanp | con -> conf | 14:19 |
| aveiga | yeah, there's a flag to set gateway on link | 14:19 |
| sc68cal | force_gateway_on_subnet | 14:19 |
| aveiga | sc68cal: what's the default value? | 14:19 |
| xuhanp | but the router interface attach will fail. That's my second link is about. | 14:19 |
| xuhanp | aveiga, false | 14:19 |
| aveiga | ok | 14:19 |
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| sc68cal | thankfully false - I think we have you to partially thank for that aveiga ? | 14:19 |
| xuhanp | definitely | 14:20 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: I think the router attach code might need to be updated. Ideally you'd want the router to have two addresses | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | I think you were able to slam the breaks on them setting it to true, if I recall correctly the ML thread | 14:20 |
| aveiga | one on-link and one LLA | 14:20 |
| aveiga | sc68cal: yeah, though I'm not the reason it was already false :0 | 14:20 |
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| xuhanp | currently my change #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/ is just allow LLA be attached to router. | 14:21 |
| baoli | in order for the RA rule to work, the bug xuhanp just submitted need to be approved as well. | 14:21 |
| aveiga | so THAT can be set as a dep in gerrit | 14:21 |
| aveiga | since they're both neutron | 14:21 |
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| xuhanp | aveiga, you mean I set the security rule to be dependent on my new patch? | 14:22 |
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| aveiga | set the LLA router as a dependency for the RA filter | 14:23 |
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| xuhanp | OK. I need to check if two addresses works for current code. I doubt that. | 14:23 |
| xuhanp | so if two addresses are allow, Which one will the dnsmasq be spawned on? | 14:24 |
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| sc68cal | It might be useful to open a blueprint to capture the two addresses on a router interface | 14:24 |
| aveiga | should be on LLA | 14:24 |
| aveiga | since the RA MUST come from LLA | 14:24 |
| xuhanp | so shshang's code need to check that? | 14:24 |
| aveiga | sc68cal: +1 | 14:24 |
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| aveiga | xuhanp: I don't think so. They should technically be on the same namespace | 14:24 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, can we still do blueprints in icehouse? I thought the deadline for blueprints is gone. | 14:25 |
| aveiga | you can still add one. We don't necessarily need the GUA on the router at this time | 14:25 |
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| sc68cal | ^ +1 | 14:26 |
| aveiga | it's recommend to route via LLA anyway | 14:26 |
| aveiga | just set it for J | 14:26 |
| xuhanp | OK | 14:26 |
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| sc68cal | #topic docs & wiki | 14:28 |
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| sc68cal | So, since we're making good progress on the code side of things, we should probably look into updating documentation and the wiki | 14:29 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/IPv6 | 14:29 |
| aveiga | I can take a crack at that | 14:29 |
| aveiga | the Neutron docs are going to need some serious updating to provide examples and documentation for what we're changing here | 14:30 |
| sc68cal | +1 | 14:30 |
| xuhanp | +1 | 14:30 |
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| sc68cal | I plan to do some developer doc as well | 14:31 |
| aveiga | I can take an AI to collect a list of Neutron docs that need changing. I'm going to be away next week, so give me some time to take this one on | 14:31 |
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| sc68cal | aveiga: OK - if you're going to be away we don't have to do an AI, I'll just make it part of our routine | 14:32 |
| aveiga | alright | 14:32 |
| sc68cal | to talk about docs | 14:32 |
| sc68cal | I don't think I have anything else, so I'm ready to turn to open discussion | 14:32 |
| sc68cal | #topic open discussion | 14:33 |
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| baoli | one more thing about xuhanp's new bug: with neutron subnet-create --ipv6 --gateway LLA, it needs to make sure that the router port is created with the LLA and an Ipv6 address from the subnet. Does it make sense? | 14:35 |
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| aveiga | baoli: that's what xuhanp was talking about with a BP for two addresses on a router | 14:36 |
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| xuhanp | yeah. Currently, I just allow to make the gateway as LLA and create a port with that. | 14:37 |
| baoli | aveiga, xuhanp, ok. | 14:37 |
| xuhanp | I am not limiting the gateway port to LLA | 14:37 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, I need to take a close look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/1/neutron/db/db_base_plugin_v2.py. But would that change apply to all the fixed_ips to be added? | 14:46 |
| xuhanp | it will be apply to gateway attach but not port create | 14:47 |
| xuhanp | if I checked that correctly | 14:47 |
| xuhanp | the if else branches are very complicated there. | 14:48 |
| xuhanp | and I did some tests but not sure if I cover them all. | 14:48 |
| xuhanp | by port create I mean the "normal" port create. | 14:49 |
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| aveiga | question here, since I don't fully know how the code works: doesn't namespace creation automatically get you a LLA address? | 14:50 |
| baoli | xuhanp, ok. I might find some time to check on that with your patch | 14:51 |
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| xuhanp | aveiga, you mean the dnsmasq can automatically send RA from qr device's LLA? | 14:52 |
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| baoli | aveiga, so far, I have seen that a LLA is automatically assigned with ipv6 enabled on a port. | 14:52 |
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| aveiga | I'm saying that on port creation for the router, just use the GUA | 14:52 |
| aveiga | it's valid, but dnsmasq will still issue the RA from the LLA | 14:53 |
| aveiga | and you can use your existing code that derives the LLA for Horizon to set the RA filter | 14:53 |
| aveiga | that gets you a GUA on the router creation, but valid LLA-derived RAs | 14:53 |
| xuhanp | so does the GUA has to be on the subnet's cir? | 14:53 |
| xuhanp | cidr | 14:54 |
| aveiga | yeah, it would be a regular addr | 14:54 |
| aveiga | per baoli's request that we have an on-subnet addr for the router in some instances | 14:54 |
| xuhanp | that I think that will work by the current code. | 14:54 |
| aveiga | would still be valid, technically | 14:54 |
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| xuhanp | so will there be an use case that subnet is using regular address and still use the LLA as gateway. | 14:55 |
| xuhanp | just trying to confirm that my change has a valid use case. | 14:56 |
| aveiga | you will always use the LLA as the gateway | 14:56 |
| aveiga | that's where the RAs come from | 14:56 |
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| aveiga | and by gateway I mean default route | 14:56 |
| xuhanp | oh. Yeah. sorry. I confused that with the router port. | 14:56 |
| aveiga | I think it will still work for now | 14:57 |
| aveiga | we might need to add a data structure for Juno to keep the LLA stored with the Router data | 14:57 |
| aveiga | or derive it when needed | 14:57 |
| sc68cal | Neutron port objects have the fixed_ip field, which can have multiple entries | 14:57 |
| aveiga | it may come up for things like LBaaS and FWaaS | 14:57 |
| aveiga | well, there you go | 14:57 |
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| aveiga | the router port just has an extra fixed for the LLA | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | dzyu's patch did just that, for the EUI64 addrs | 14:58 |
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| sc68cal | Sadly, we are out of time | 14:59 |
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| sc68cal | Thanks everyone for joining - long live ipv6! | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | see everyone next week! | 14:59 |
| aveiga | thanks! | 15:00 |
| baoli | thanks | 15:00 |
| xuhanp | see you guys | 15:00 |
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| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 15:00:23 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-25-14.02.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-25-14.02.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-25-14.02.log.html | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 15:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | anyone here to talk abou the scheduler (or did I scare everyone off :-) | 15:01 |
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| mspreitz | I am here | 15:01 |
| bauzas | o/ | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | As I said, I don't have any set agenda (I was off sick all last week), anything you guys want to talk about? | 15:02 |
| bauzas | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-external-scheduler | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | we agreed on plan B the previous week | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | there is a blueprint for task #1 | 15:03 |
| bauzas | I would like to contribute to task #2, is there any BP ? | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | and if so, we should amend the etherpad :) | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | I know we're in FeatureFreeze | 15:04 |
| bauzas | sorry, FeatureProposalFreeze | 15:04 |
| n0ano | not that I know of, if you have ideas you can add to the etherpad or, if you feel ambitious, add a BP for that | 15:05 |
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| n0ano | I think the reality is that this work is going to be for Juno, we've pretty much missed the Icehous window by now | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: ok, I'll see if I can fill in some details within another etherpad | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, its juno now for this stuff | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yup, we all know :) | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | so I'm not too concerned about timing issues, we just do things as quick as we can | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | are we all happy with the approach now? | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | I'm fine with it | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think its a good approach | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | even after sleeping on it | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | my only concern is that we make progress on it, just `cleaning up nova' is easy to push off for another day | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | as gantt is not nova, I think we could still work on delivering a library | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, I think thats when we make the split though? | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | that forces that one, once we get very close | 15:07 |
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| n0ano | it looks like comleteing both task 1 and 2 is when we can do the true split | 15:08 |
| bauzas | IMHO, there are 2 things which can be done while the Nova freze | 15:08 |
| bauzas | freeze | 15:08 |
| bauzas | 1/ do the cleanup of nova calls within Gantt | 15:09 |
| bauzas | 2/ provide an external library for the resource tracker | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | you can get the patches up while we are frozen, but the idea of being frozen is to get bugs fixed | 15:09 |
| bauzas | both are within Gantt's scope | 15:09 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, +1 | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, so any more for today then? | 15:12 |
| n0ano | not from me | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | do you want to raise blueprints for the scheduler lib? | 15:12 |
| mspreitz | one procedural issue | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | just so its tracked? | 15:12 |
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| mspreitz | Does any wiki page point to the archive of these meetings? | 15:12 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I can handle it | 15:12 |
| n0ano | mspreitz, yes | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: cool, I ping me when you want it approving, etc | 15:13 |
| n0ano | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/ | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well OK | 15:13 |
| mspreitz | what wiki page points there? | 15:13 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: that will be matter of collecting all info | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: which info? | 15:13 |
| n0ano | cool meeting, bauzas got all the ARs | 15:13 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: and writing the rationale | 15:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, I don't mind drafting something quick, if that helps? | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: do you prefer me to quickly draft something then ? | 15:14 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: because I was preferring to write a wikipage | 15:14 |
| Yathi | also regarding the gantt split work and if any blueprints require owners please include me i volunteer | 15:14 |
| mspreitz | n0ano: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Scheduler does not point to the gantt meetings | 15:14 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: but the first one should also good to me :) | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: OK, I was hoping to keep it short really | 15:14 |
| n0ano | mspreitz, my bad, I changed the meeting name and didn't update the meetings wiki with that info, I'll fix it | 15:14 |
| mspreitz | thanks | 15:14 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well, OK, will do then | 15:15 |
| n0ano | OK, bauzas does all the work, anything else today? | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: does "Create Scheduler Python Library" work OK? | 15:16 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, thanks | 15:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-lib | 15:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I will fill it out, feel free to jump on it with ideas | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: ok, will do | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | to all, do we consider patching oslo.config for managing different projects ? | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | that's something I began to work on | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: doesn't seem worth it right now | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: gnatt should have its own config right? it can just match what nova has today, I assume? | 15:19 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, as a separate effort maybe, don't see how we should depend upon that for this work | 15:20 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, +1 | 15:20 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well, that's pretty hard to import both nova and gantt | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I was thinking it as some way to ease the move | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: but with the cleaner split, it should "just work" TM | 15:20 |
| n0ano | bauzas, what do you mean, I though everybody already included oslo.config | 15:20 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: agree | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I mean that all registered opts are duplicated in between Gantt and Nova because of the same scope | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: there is one global cfg object | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | yep | 15:21 |
| * erecio slaps erecio around a bit with a large trout | 15:21 | |
| johnthetubaguy | and two config files | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | with possibly same opt names :) | 15:22 |
| bauzas | and groups | 15:22 |
| n0ano | do we want to create a gantt config name space or would that be too much of a change | 15:22 |
| bauzas | nah, I think it's oslo.config duty to handle different namespaces | 15:22 |
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| Yathi | shouldnt be hard to change the code everywhere to include a new namespace | 15:23 |
| n0ano | I believe it does, the problem is, right now, you'd have nova & gantt defining the same names in the same name space, oslo.config gets upset about that | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yup, and here is why I'm proposing to focus on that side | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'm facing same issue with climate-nova | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: the workaround is to deregister all opts from one project, but that's hard to manage | 15:24 |
| n0ano | the simple solution is to just create a new name space, be it gantt or climate, but that is a user visible change | 15:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hang on | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | in gantt, it will be in gantt.conf | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | in nova its in nova.conf | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | and gnatt will never access anything in nova.conf | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | and nova will not access anything in gantt.conf | 15:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | or am I missing something here? | 15:25 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, so you are proposing a user visible change, the user now has to change all of her config files | 15:25 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: the cfg object is the same for both | 15:26 |
| bauzas | when you import libs, it takes the global cfg object | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | so, within oslo code, it will register some opts | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | n0ano: yes, if you use gantt you will need to use gantt.conf | 15:26 |
| bauzas | like nova.openstack.common.policy | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | (well, maybe this example is bad, hold on) | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, it would be gnatt.openstack.common.policy, etc | 15:27 |
| n0ano | since we're going for a more major change, not just a code forklift, I like that idea, it's just a bigger change with wide ranging implications | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | n0ano: I think anything else is a bit confusing | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | we will need upgrade/migrate helper scripts | 15:29 |
| bauzas | but provided you call gantt.openstack.common.whatever | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | but that is true anyways | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | all the opts will get registered in the same CONF object | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | yep, they will | 15:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | but when its an issue, they are in separate processes and code trees, just like Cinder vs Nova | 15:30 |
| bauzas | so, they will lead to DuplicateOptError | 15:30 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, do we have precedent for helper scripts that change config files, I'd prefer not to be the first one to do this | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think cinder did something like this | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we would have to check with them | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | russellb: might remember what cinder did for config migration | 15:31 |
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| n0ano | I'll see if I can see what was done, cinder would obviously have needed to do something | 15:32 |
| n0ano | it will certainly make splitting things a lot easier if the config moves to a new space, DuplicateOptError has been the bane of my life recently | 15:33 |
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| Yathi | is there a list of blueprints for gantt split work ? | 15:33 |
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| n0ano | Yathi, the etherpad is the best place for that, it already has the first list of task & BPs | 15:34 |
| Yathi | ok thanks | 15:34 |
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| n0ano | OK, anything else for today? | 15:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | not from me | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-lib | 15:36 |
| n0ano | looks like we talked out for today | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | is up there now | 15:36 |
| n0ano | tnx everyone, we'll talk again next week | 15:36 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 15:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 15:37:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-25-15.00.html | 15:37 |
| bauzas | thansk | 15:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-25-15.00.txt | 15:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-25-15.00.log.html | 15:37 |
| Yathi | requesting reviews for icehouse approved blueprints - solver scheduler and instance group api | 15:37 |
| n0ano | Yathi, nova meeting is the best place for that, if you're not going to be there this week send me a link to the BPs you want review and I'll poke people | 15:38 |
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| Yathi | which is the nova meeting ? sorry i am confused | 15:39 |
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| Yathi | i will send you the links please poke | 15:40 |
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| Yathi | n0ano, this is the blueprint with all the patches - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/solver-scheduler | 15:43 |
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| Yathi | please poke people for reviews thanks | 15:43 |
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| n0ano | Yathi, this nova meeting - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Nova_team_Meeting | 15:48 |
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| n0ano | but NP, I'll be at that meeting this week and bring up your BP | 15:48 |
| Yathi | n0ano, thanks a lot please bring it up | 15:49 |
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| Yathi | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/instance-group-api-extension is the other blueprint | 15:57 |
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| Yathi | n0ano, just typed the other blueprint above please poke about both for reviews | 15:57 |
| n0ano | NP, will do | 15:57 |
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| luisfdez | hi | 16:16 |
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| boris-42_ | #startmeeting Rally | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 17:01:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:01 | |
| boris-42_ | #startmeeting Rally | 17:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:01 |
| openstack | boris-42_: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 17:01 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders ping | 17:02 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov ping | 17:03 |
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| hughsaunders | hey boris-42_ | 17:04 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 hi | 17:04 |
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| miarmak | рш фдд | 17:07 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak hey=) | 17:07 |
| miarmak | hi all* | 17:07 |
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| boris-42_ | okay guys let's strat | 17:07 |
| miarmak | boris-42_: hi:) | 17:07 |
| boris-42_ | 1) Verification stuff | 17:07 |
| boris-42_ | 2) Benchmark stuff | 17:07 |
| boris-42_ | 3) Deploy stuff | 17:07 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 1) Verification stuff | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1) Verification stuff (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:07 | |
| boris-42_ | miarmak I have a couple of questions | 17:08 |
| miarmak | boris-42_: yep | 17:08 |
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| boris-42_ | miarmak it actually is really hard to use | 17:08 |
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| miarmak | boris-42_: why? | 17:08 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak I mean probably we should move all tempest files to ~/.rally/tempest/* | 17:08 |
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| boris-42_ | miarmak cause it requires "sudo" to use it or even to run | 17:09 |
| hughsaunders | ~/.rally/deploy-id/tempest | 17:09 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders +1 | 17:09 |
| boris-42_ | and rally install will make git clone | 17:09 |
| hughsaunders | I was trying to figure out where tempest is installed, gets complicated with venvs | 17:09 |
| boris-42_ | and rally run will copy paste this local repo to /rally/deploy-id | 17:09 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders +1 | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders it doesn't work.. with venv.. | 17:10 |
| hughsaunders | added a debug statement just to show where config is as I wanted to check whats in it | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak are you agree with these chagnes? | 17:10 |
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| miarmak | boris-42_: hm, in such case of course | 17:10 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais ping | 17:11 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais we have meeting=) | 17:12 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak ok let move this | 17:12 |
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| boris-42_ | miarmak as I know you are not able to do this? | 17:12 |
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| boris-42_ | miarmak so probably Olga could continue work around it | 17:12 |
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| miarmak | boris-42_: yeah( | 17:13 |
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| boris-42_ | miarmak another area that I would like is to create by hand virtual env | 17:13 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak inside rally | 17:13 |
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| boris-42_ | miarmak and then use tempest with testr that will allow us to get full results (without processing of run_tempest) | 17:14 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak so we will be able to parse them and store | 17:14 |
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| miarmak | boris-42_: aha, clear | 17:15 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak so okay=) | 17:15 |
| boris-42_ | #topic benchmark | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "benchmark (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:15 | |
| boris-42_ | Okay I would just to discuss our future steps | 17:15 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders ^ | 17:15 |
| hughsaunders | erm | 17:16 |
| hughsaunders | future of verification? | 17:16 |
| boris-42_ | <boris-42_> #topic benchmark | 17:16 |
| hughsaunders | oh sorry :( | 17:16 |
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| msdubov | I think it makes sense to put here the link to https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1LYUAHkZQD8W7dtlj2I3PDA6x67TiD3AMnSWG6ljsups/edit#heading=h.ae5lk415py0q | 17:16 |
| msdubov | as a guidance | 17:16 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov yep | 17:16 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov but we should start working around all these steps | 17:17 |
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| msdubov | I've started today with point 1 | 17:17 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42_: here now | 17:17 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov and point 2 | 17:17 |
| msdubov | ("Improving scenario input args validation") | 17:17 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais hey happy to see you=) | 17:17 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ Yep they are to follow | 17:17 |
| hughsaunders | I would like to work on stress execution, but won't be able to for a while | 17:17 |
| msdubov | They are currently on review.openstack.org but WIP | 17:17 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais you're just in right moment=) | 17:17 |
| msdubov | and will be rebased | 17:17 |
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| msdubov | hughsaunders I've actually started it some time ago | 17:18 |
| hughsaunders | :) | 17:18 |
| msdubov | even before we've made all this refactoring | 17:18 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov you started in wrong direction=) | 17:18 |
| msdubov | So I'll probably continue the work in another direction | 17:18 |
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| msdubov | in the right one | 17:18 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov probably we could let hugh?) | 17:18 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42_: no | 17:19 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ Well, it depends on when hughsaunders can start it, I think | 17:19 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov there is a lot of other work that should be done before stress exectuion=) | 17:19 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ agree | 17:19 |
| boris-42_ | somebody have to do it as well.. | 17:19 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders serious?) | 17:19 |
| hughsaunders | boris-42_: just time starved at the mo :( | 17:19 |
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| boris-42_ | hughsaunders okay I think ww will see who will be able to do all parts | 17:20 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov hughsaunders but before doing it we should change input config | 17:20 |
| hughsaunders | boris-42_: yeah | 17:20 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders so load_generator or run_configuration or run_config? | 17:21 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov marcoemorais ^ | 17:21 |
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| msdubov | boris-42_ I personally like "load generator" | 17:21 |
| msdubov | because it's logical for everybody not familiar with the inner structure of Rally | 17:22 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42_: what is the difference btwn run_configuration and run_config? | 17:23 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov length=) | 17:23 |
| hughsaunders | I would vote for run_config | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais length * | 17:23 |
| marcoemorais | run_config | 17:24 |
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| msdubov | boris-42_ what's your opinion? | 17:24 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov i don't know as form one side I like load_generator (cause it clear that inside will be configuration of it) | 17:25 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov from other side run_config is clean as well... | 17:26 |
| boris-42_ | amaretskiy hi | 17:26 |
| amaretskiy | hello! | 17:26 |
| boris-42_ | amaretskiy https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1LYUAHkZQD8W7dtlj2I3PDA6x67TiD3AMnSWG6ljsups/edit# open this document at point 3.1 | 17:26 |
| boris-42_ | amaretskiy we are voting for new config schema | 17:26 |
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| boris-42_ | amaretskiy load_generator or run_config | 17:27 |
| boris-42_ | amaretskiy your oponion? | 17:27 |
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| amaretskiy | sorry, I'm novice to this, I have no idea at that time | 17:27 |
| boris-42_ | amaretskiy you are super useful for this task | 17:27 |
| amaretskiy | I'm just a spectator for a while :) | 17:27 |
| boris-42_ | amaretskiy cause you don't know anything about Rally | 17:28 |
| amaretskiy | ok, I will think about that for a minute... | 17:28 |
| boris-42_ | amaretskiy what is more clear for you, it specify load that will be generated | 17:28 |
| msdubov | an argument for "load_generator" would be IMHO the fact that we are speaking about continuous/periodic LOADS on the cloud, not about continuous/periodic configurations | 17:28 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ " it specify load that will be generated" lol | 17:28 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ That's unfair :) | 17:28 |
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| hughsaunders | msdubov: but its also parameters for how the scenario will be run | 17:29 |
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| boris-42_ | btw tenants and user_per_tenant as well specify run configuration | 17:30 |
| boris-42_ | probably it will be a bit misleading ? | 17:30 |
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| msdubov | boris-42_ Nope, they specify what happens inside the cloud, so it's ok I think... | 17:30 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov nope they specify actually run specifycation | 17:30 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ I mean that scenarios are on the Rally side but users/tenants exist in the cloud | 17:31 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders so run_conifg should contains for 2 parts config of resources | 17:31 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders and config of load | 17:31 |
| marcoemorais | how about something even more generic like test_config or benchmark_config ? | 17:31 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais as I said | 17:31 |
| hughsaunders | scenario_args is benchmark configuration? | 17:31 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais part with "cloud_config" is as well part of benchmark config | 17:32 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov hughsaunders marcoemorais what about load_config ? | 17:32 |
| boris-42_ | because actually it is configuration of load | 17:32 |
| boris-42_ | and nothing else | 17:33 |
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| hughsaunders | scenario_run_config? | 17:34 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42_: usu. what is nice is when names in the configuration match names in the code (that is why scenario_args is nice), if we call this load_config, we should prolly rename the code to use word load | 17:34 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais now they are called scneario_runners | 17:35 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42_: then runner_config? | 17:35 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais actually probably yes | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders msdubov thoughts ? | 17:36 |
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| hughsaunders | I like runner_config | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | cause it will be absolutely clear what means "type" field | 17:36 |
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| boris-42_ | it's just runner type | 17:36 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ Also perfectly ok | 17:37 |
| hughsaunders | #agreed | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | okay | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | nice | 17:37 |
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| msdubov | marcoemorais Also true. In any case, the code should follow the API (= the config format), but never vice cersa | 17:37 |
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| boris-42_ | what about cloud_config? | 17:37 |
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| * boris-42_ Holy wars meeting | 17:37 | |
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| hughsaunders | haha | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | I think actually such things are very important | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | cause it is thing that is used by end users.. | 17:38 |
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| boris-42_ | so it should be ideal | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | so variants are next | 17:39 |
| hughsaunders | boris-42_: so things specified in cloud_config are setup before the scenario is run? In this case creating users.. | 17:39 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep but there will be much more | 17:39 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders in future | 17:39 |
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| hughsaunders | so in general it specifies resources to be created that will be used by the scenario? | 17:39 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep | 17:40 |
| hughsaunders | so resource_config ? | 17:40 |
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| marcoemorais | hughsaunders: that sounds pretty good | 17:40 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais msdubov miarmak amaretskiy ^ | 17:40 |
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| rediskin | upload images, configure access lists, configure network. imo better is cloud_config | 17:41 |
| rediskin | it not only resources | 17:41 |
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| hughsaunders | hmm ok | 17:41 |
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| boris-42_ | tzabal hi | 17:42 |
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| tzabal | hello | 17:42 |
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| boris-42_ | tzabal we have holy wars meeting at the moment | 17:42 |
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| boris-42_ | tzabal https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1LYUAHkZQD8W7dtlj2I3PDA6x67TiD3AMnSWG6ljsups/edit# | 17:42 |
| boris-42_ | tzabal point 3.1. | 17:42 |
| hughsaunders | so it specifies any action that needs to be done to the cloud before rally is run. cloud_preparation? | 17:42 |
| hughsaunders | cloud_prep? | 17:42 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep any actions not only creation of resources | 17:42 |
| marcoemorais | hughsaunders: one thing abt the items in this section is that they are ephemeral (eg cleaned up at end of test) | 17:42 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais ? | 17:43 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais ah yes | 17:43 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais they should return cloud in state | 17:43 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais before benchmarking | 17:43 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42_: they will all get cleaned up by ResourceCleaner | 17:43 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais yep | 17:43 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42_: like setUp and tearDown in a unit test | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais yep | 17:44 |
| rediskin | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rally/+spec/pre-benchmark | 17:44 |
| rediskin | 2013-11-26 | 17:44 |
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| boris-42_ | rediskin bad config=) | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin but word "pre_benchmark" | 17:45 |
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| boris-42_ | is interesting | 17:45 |
| hughsaunders | benchmark_prep | 17:45 |
| hughsaunders | scenario_prep? | 17:45 |
| boris-42_ | scenario_prep | 17:45 |
| marcoemorais | hughsaunders: benchmark_setup? | 17:45 |
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| boris-42_ | benchmark_setup +1 | 17:45 |
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| hughsaunders | benchmark setup is similar to scenario_args, we need something that implies action before the benchmark is run | 17:46 |
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| boris-42_ | so?) | 17:47 |
| hughsaunders | so something with pre/prep/before/etc ? | 17:48 |
| amaretskiy | what about bare words "setup", "benchmark", "cloud" ? | 17:49 |
| hughsaunders | scenario, runner, prep? | 17:49 |
| boris-42_ | args | 17:50 |
| boris-42_ | args/runner/prep | 17:50 |
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| boris-42_ | ? | 17:50 |
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| hughsaunders | I like that | 17:50 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais rediskin amaretskiy msdubov miarmak | 17:51 |
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| boris-42_ | args/runner/prep | 17:51 |
| boris-42_ | ^ | 17:51 |
| boris-42_ | without any complicated constructions | 17:51 |
| amaretskiy | sounds good | 17:51 |
| marcoemorais | I like prep | 17:52 |
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| boris-42_ | marcoemorais ? | 17:53 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42_: args/runner/prep without additional complications is good | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais so we will use this set? | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | okay nice | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | renaming in doc | 17:53 |
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| * boris-42_ nice | 17:55 | |
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| boris-42_ | it looks perfect and clear | 17:55 |
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| tzabal | agree, much better than the current format | 17:55 |
| boris-42_ | who will rename it? | 17:55 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais would you like to refactor it? | 17:56 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42_: yes | 17:56 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42_: is there a trello card for this yet? | 17:56 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais could you make task at trello? | 17:56 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais nope | 17:56 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais goal of this document is to collect all togehter | 17:56 |
| harlowja | whats uppp | 17:56 |
| harlowja | ha | 17:56 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais to simplify splitting job to trello tasks | 17:56 |
| boris-42_ | harlowja ha=) | 17:56 |
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| boris-42_ | harlowja we are just speaking about refactoring configuration file | 17:57 |
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| harlowja | keep up the good work! | 17:57 |
| harlowja | lol | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | harlowja already disucssed | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | marcoemorais will implement | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | -=) | 17:57 |
| harlowja | nice | 17:57 |
| harlowja | +2 | 17:57 |
| harlowja | a question that i was having with marco, why have the json files at all? why not just let people program in say python | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | harlowja there is a strong reason | 17:58 |
| harlowja | whats that | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | harlowja for 99% of people it is hard | 17:58 |
| harlowja | :-/ | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | harlowja for 80% of people it is hard even to fill right this simple jso | 17:59 |
| harlowja | thats sad | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | json | 17:59 |
| harlowja | double sad | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | so =( | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | they just would like to have 1 red button | 17:59 |
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| harlowja | hmmm | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | "benchmark it" | 17:59 |
| harlowja | ha | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | that will do all work and make a report | 17:59 |
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| boris-42_ | soo | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | JSON simplify UI of rally a lot | 18:00 |
| harlowja | exccept its json :( | 18:00 |
| harlowja | and can't have comments in it :( | 18:00 |
| harlowja | that sux | 18:00 |
| boris-42_ | harlowja so it should be super clean=) | 18:00 |
| harlowja | lol | 18:00 |
| hughsaunders | json allows users to tailor benchmarks to their needs without hacking on code | 18:00 |
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| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep | 18:00 |
| hughsaunders | but could use yaml, wouldn't make much difference | 18:00 |
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| boris-42_ | hughsaunders actually yes | 18:01 |
| harlowja | hmmm, ok, i'm just not sure, to me hacking on json is the same level of difficulty as hacking on code | 18:01 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:01 |
| hughsaunders | could use support both, its the structure not the format that is important | 18:01 |
| harlowja | but up to u guys | 18:01 |
| * ayoung slips into meeting room | 18:01 | |
| tzabal | for the users of "red button", we may create a web UI as a frontend to the configuration with the required fields, it could be more "user friendly" | 18:01 |
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| boris-42_ | guys we need to end meeting | 18:01 |
| hughsaunders | bye | 18:01 |
| harlowja | lata | 18:01 |
| boris-42_ | let's go to Rally | 18:01 |
| boris-42_ | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 18:01:50 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-25-17.01.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-25-17.01.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-25-17.01.log.html | 18:01 |
| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: keystone meetping | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | hey | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 18:02 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:02 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:02 |
| bknudson | dolphm: hi | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | i mean \o | 18:02 |
| henrynash | yeehaa | 18:02 |
| jamielennox | hi | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek and stevemar copied me, had ot change it up | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | >.> | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 18:02:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| shardy | o/ | 18:02 |
| fabiog | o/ | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| ayoung | \m/ _v_ \m/ | 18:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze March 4th (features must be merged) | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze March 4th (features must be merged) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| fmarco76 | \o | 18:02 |
| * lbragstad likes henrynash's spirit | 18:02 | |
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| henrynash | :-0 | 18:03 |
| henrynash | :-) | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | we look to be still on a good velocity -- although there are few patches that haven't seen as many revisions as they should be getting in response to reviewer feedback | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | so if you have something in review with -1's, keep posting revisions ASAP :) | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | #topic Deprecate XML in Juno? | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Deprecate XML in Juno? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| dolphm | bknudson: o/ | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | 1 week | 18:04 |
| dstanek | dolphm: are some of those outside of the core team? | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | 7 days....168 hours 10080 minutes....604800seconds | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | AAAAH! | 18:04 |
| bknudson | deprecate XML was mentioned on the mailing list recently with nova. | 18:05 |
| bknudson | nova has deprecated it | 18:05 |
| dolphm | dstanek: yeah | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: for icehouse, correct? | 18:05 |
| dolphm | to be removed in juno | 18:05 |
| bknudson | so I think keystone is the only project that has it and hasn't deprecated | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | if the general direction is to remove XML support, i see no reason to not deprecate it in Keystone. | 18:05 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:05 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: i completely agree that it's a good idea - the XML interface is dodgy at best, but nova is proposing that they do it with a new major version | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | we should at least be on the same deprecation timeline | 18:05 |
| bknudson | dolphm: yes, they deprecated xml for icehouse -- their v2. and they have a v3 api that will not support XML | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | I don't know any deployments that use it (i've been listening) | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | everyone uses json afaict | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | it would also simplify things a good deal. | 18:06 |
| bknudson | ok, just wanted to bring it up and see if there were any objections. | 18:06 |
| jamielennox | isn't it a compatability issue to remove it for an existing API? | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | post to openstack mailing list on that one | 18:07 |
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| jamielennox | (my general feeling otherwise is good riddance) | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, if we do the 2 cycle thing, we probably can get away with it. | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox: that's a good question - but we wouldn't be breaking that by deprecating it -- only be removing it | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ post to -operators and xposted to -dev would be good | 18:07 |
| dolphm | deprecation at least discourages further wasted dev cycles on it | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, bknudson , how good is the XML support in V3? | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | i... am embarassed i've never looked | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I thik the long term solution for keystone needs to be using Pecan' | 18:08 |
| ayoung | s rending | 18:08 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: it works, that's about it | 18:08 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: for us it's just a translation layer | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | or whatever it is that does the multiple content types | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ pecan | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yeah | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, k. | 18:08 |
| ayoung | I suspect that Pecan is going to change the output of the documents | 18:08 |
| dolphm | pecan would try to expose a whole new API though, so that would be massively breaking without a lot of dev effort | 18:09 |
| ayoung | cuz, you knowm, automated rendering and all | 18:09 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++ | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, we'll have to cross that bridge when we start down that path | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: it shouldn't change much in terms of output at all | 18:09 |
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| jamielennox | see: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65428/ | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | (which was passing) | 18:10 |
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| jamielennox | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65428/ | 18:10 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, is that rendering responses that used to be rendered with the XML middleware? | 18:10 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: it force renders everything into JSON and then lets the XML middleware do its thing for now | 18:10 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, that is what we are doing now anyway | 18:11 |
| dolphm | just to get something in review to deprecate XML: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76301/ | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | I was going to look at an xml rendererer for pecan later | 18:11 |
| ayoung | so it is not using the Pecan XML renderer. | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: no | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, snuck soemthing onto the end of the agenda, just for a quick status update | 18:11 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ack | 18:11 |
| dhellmann | you guys aren't using wsme for xml? | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: there isn't really a pecan renderer, there is a wsme xml renderer | 18:11 |
| ryanpetrello | FYI, pecan doesn't have an XML renderer by default | 18:11 |
| ryanpetrello | right, what jamielennox said | 18:11 |
| ayoung | right, right | 18:11 |
| ayoung | "or whatever it is that does the multiple content types" | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | dhellmann: we can't regarding the issue of having arbitrarty API inputs that i raised on the dev list a while ago | 18:12 |
| dolphm | wsme is the interesting part of pecan/wsme | 18:12 |
| dhellmann | jamielennox: right, ok | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, jamielennox, that is on the agenda to talk about for Juno ("extra" attributes) | 18:12 |
| dhellmann | we're looking into ways to deal with that, since apparently every openstack API needs it | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | dhellmann: i had a patch that would fix the problem for json, but i couldn't figure out a way to allow the same functionality for XML | 18:12 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: really? | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, jamielennox, at least as far as i am concerned | 18:13 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: yeah, jd__ is looking into the issue | 18:13 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | need to start making a list of likely summit sessions | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, <xtra attr, name="thing" value="val" /> | 18:13 |
| dhellmann | s/every openstack api/far more openstack apis than I expected/ | 18:13 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, don't get too complex w/ it. | 18:13 |
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| morganfainberg | but likely the attrs would still need to be defined | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | i know that isn't valid xml. | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:14 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg, dhellmann: it's fine for JSON because you can just parse direct to python, you could probably do the same thing for pecan's XML format but keystone wouldn't use that anyway - cause we're different | 18:14 |
| dhellmann | everyone is a snowlfake | 18:14 |
| dhellmann | er, snowflake | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, flowerflake? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I suspect the buckets from last summit will stand as placeholders for the current summit: client, federation, and so on | 18:15 |
| jamielennox | it appears my wsme patch is on my work computer... | 18:15 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that'd be a good start | 18:15 |
| dolphm | ayoung: we'll likely have a slot or two less though | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, only one session for Federation instead of two, then | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, we did very well with unconfrence-like stuff. | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, i think we can make up the difference | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: and we'll do better with that this time around, if the logistics work out | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:16 |
| dolphm | --no-promises | 18:16 |
| dolphm | #topic Fixing multi-backend LDAP with composite user/group IDs | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fixing multi-backend LDAP with composite user/group IDs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:16 | |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: o/? | 18:16 |
| henrynash_ | so | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | henrynash_: my second guess | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, henrynash_ ^ | 18:17 |
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| henrynash_ | this is just an update on this one….it's up for review | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | henrynash_, my big question is whether we "flip the switch" on the format by default | 18:17 |
| henrynash_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/ | 18:17 |
| dolphm | henrynash_: that is an absolutely GIANT patch to land after feature freeze | 18:17 |
| henrynash_ | ayoung: agreed…and I think you are right, we should not flip the switch | 18:18 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah, but it is a lot of repeated code in Id generation | 18:18 |
| ayoung | roughly half is in tests... | 18:18 |
| henrynash_ | dolphm:yeah, a lot of the changes are where we generate a uuid in testing, we now call a method to do it | 18:19 |
| ayoung | and he's written a lot of good text documentation | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/12/keystone/identity/core.py is mostly docs and it is the large changed file | 18:19 |
| ayoung | (outside of tests) | 18:19 |
| henrynash_ | ayoung: agreed | 18:19 |
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| morganfainberg | so... you're saying it's a config option to enable the "new" format? | 18:20 |
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| dolphm | let's try to get it in before next tuesday - if it doesn't land, my instinct is to hold it for juno rather than to land it as a "bug" fix | 18:20 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I think so | 18:20 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: so for SQL new entities are in the new format always | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, ok | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, that was what we talked about, i'm cool w/ that approach | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, :) | 18:21 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: but old-style UUIDs are still supported | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, ++ | 18:21 |
| ayoung | yeah...larger Database columns, basically maxing out what we can fit in an "in line" text field. | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, perfecrt | 18:21 |
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| henrynash | the config switch is for existing LDAP-as-the-default-domain installations | 18:21 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, 100% ++ | 18:21 |
| ayoung | We'll try to hit some live testing on this. I think nkinder and company will be interested | 18:21 |
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| bknudson | I get this: Continue since identity does not exist. | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: one of the docs refers to the "internal" format of ID's -- are you not proposing to change the ID exposed to the API? | 18:22 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, cool. yeah i just didn't want SQL stuff to end up not getting the new format for new entries | 18:22 |
| ayoung | dolphm, format for ID has always been a blob | 18:22 |
| * ayoung wonders if we are going to break the other services | 18:22 | |
| henrynash | dolphm: not exitsing entity's ID will change | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: if you're going to stop responding to existing ID's, that's likely | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, hm. possibly | 18:23 |
| ayoung | does Nova have an assumption of a uuid for a userid? | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | Yeah, we need this to be "actively enable" | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, no. | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but might have a size expectation | 18:23 |
| henrynash | dolphm: no….all existing IDs are still supported. period. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | right...that is what I meant | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, actually | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i don't think it wont matter. | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, arg, s/wont// | 18:24 |
| ayoung | double negative? | 18:24 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: if we're unsure of things like other services size limits it seems like something we should hold until juno | 18:24 |
| henrynash | dolphm: nobody;s existing ID will change (assuming we set the config switch the right way for people who have an LDAP as the default domain) | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, no lose the second negative. | 18:24 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, the other projects store "owner" and might have fixed sized fields. | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think only swift could care | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, afaik nova cares about project | 18:25 |
| ayoung | although...would tempest catch that? | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, not "user" in that regard | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: what about quotas? | 18:25 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, in nova, thats still project based | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, not user based | 18:26 |
| dolphm | good to know - i thought it was both | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | i'm 2x checking | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, lets just assume it will break "somewhere" and make it an option that has to be actively enabled, and then we can chase down the offenders over time\ | 18:26 |
| dstanek | this sounds like a topic for the dev list to get a wider audience | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | actually | 18:26 |
| dolphm | henrynash: has this been on list before? | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | Marconi, DBaaS, Barbican...who knows what evil lies in the hearts of code of men? The shadow | 18:26 |
| ayoung | and by The Shadow, I mean not us. | 18:27 |
| henrynash | dolphm: so myself and ayoung have discussed the ideas of composite IDs (which is what this is) before on the list... | 18:27 |
| ayoung | yep...got a lot of feedback, too as I recall | 18:27 |
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| morganfainberg | i'll grab nova folks and talk to them today about user id lenfth etc | 18:28 |
| dstanek | henrynash: was the change is size called out at all? | 18:28 |
| dolphm | henrynash: all i was going to suggest is to resurrect the existing thread | 18:28 |
| bknudson | we're going to have some funny-looking ids for federation. | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | later today in our channel | 18:28 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: not a bad idea and make an explicit request on the size (dstanek - it was proposed as composite of two existing UUIDs) | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | its not just nova I am worried about. Nova would get caught in Tempest testing | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | tempest hasn't been complaining so far | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | well i think it wont be a huge issue but we'll 2x check. | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | ++ | 18:31 |
| dolphm | #topic v2 tenant list | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "v2 tenant list (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:31 | |
| dolphm | henrynash: o/ | 18:31 |
| ayoung | bknudson, question is whether tempest is running against MySQL. If so, we are getting out length checked | 18:31 |
| bknudson | ayoung: tempest runs mysql and postgres | 18:32 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i could probably address this topic as well | 18:32 |
| henrynash | so just a quick one on tenant list | 18:32 |
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| henrynash | dolphm:ok | 18:32 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yeah, so we should be good, since tempest was run by check on henrynash 's patch | 18:32 |
| bknudson | we could return 2 tenants with the same name. | 18:32 |
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| henrynash | bknudson: yep | 18:32 |
| bknudson | I ran the db2 migrations and no complaints. | 18:32 |
| dolphm | henrynash: the only intended purpose for the default domain is to provide domain-scope for domain-unaware v2 calls (which is all of v2) | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, yes V2 should only show default domain. | 18:33 |
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| dstanek | so, with this change are all user ids larger than the previous max? | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: so users and tenants should only ever be returned from the default domain in v2 | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:33 |
| henrynash | dolphm: that's my view too…and in fact we do restrict it for users (slight by mistake) | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: by mistake? | 18:33 |
| bknudson | what if you get the projects for a user... | 18:34 |
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| bknudson | and the projects are not in default domain. | 18:34 |
| bknudson | I don't know what all the operations are. | 18:34 |
| henrynash | dolphm: my original changes to multi-backend for Havana caused the user list via v2 to only be for the default domains | 18:34 |
| dolphm | bknudson: it should only show tenants from the default domain | 18:34 |
| dolphm | if you're making that call on v2 | 18:34 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:34 |
| dolphm | henrynash: that's perfect | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | we should do filtering to eliminate V3 specific data | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, ++ | 18:35 |
| dolphm | henrynash: and should have been the existing behavior if it wasn't :( | 18:35 |
| ayoung | henrynash, it might not have been intentional on your part, but it was right | 18:35 |
| henrynash | dolphm: yep | 18:35 |
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| henrynash | but I never touched projects, hence it has the old behavior | 18:35 |
| gyee | ++ | 18:35 |
| henrynash | it's an easy one-line fix (plus some testing) so can submit a patch for review today | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, can you also ensure other V3 specific data doesn't get returned (e.g. projects for user) | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | ? | 18:36 |
| gyee | v2 API have no access of projects and users outside of the default domain | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, or is that a larger scope | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | and/or needs more time/energy/resources to complete | 18:36 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: yeah, I wondered about that….I think it probably IS possible that there are holes there | 18:37 |
| gyee | we have those filters in place already right? | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, not sure. | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, but we should | 18:37 |
| gyee | I remember seeing them for the token APIs at least | 18:38 |
| henrynash | I'll fix this specific issue (tenant list) as one patch…and investigate other issues sperately | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, ok | 18:38 |
| dolphm | henrynash: thank you! | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | #topic Kite | 18:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kite (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:38 | |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:38 |
| dolphm | (this is also on the TC agenda for today) | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, just a quick status update, (correct me if i'm wrong) we're waiting on TC meeting later today to know if we have scope increase for splitting the repos to openstack/kite | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | kite is for KDS only, right? | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, talked w/ jamielennox, if the split doesn't occur i think the best bet is to remove KDS from the keystone repo before RC then add it back in post split. | 18:39 |
| gyee | kite is KDS right? | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yes | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, yes | 18:39 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: so, if the TC views this as an increase of scope beyond our existing mission statement, then there will be a lot more discussion | 18:39 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | sorry post RC cut | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | not split :) | 18:40 |
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| jamielen- | dolphm: this has been the problem in the past though, the reason it had to be in keystone repo to begin with | 18:40 |
| bknudson | we'd have to drop kite entirely if TC doesn't like it? | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | so we don't halt development, but we don't release bad code. | 18:40 |
| jamielen- | grr, stupid irc | 18:40 |
| dolphm | i'd be fine with a repo on stackforge; it's obviously not going to be an integrated project as of icehouse | 18:40 |
| dolphm | bknudson: the TC only cares about the proper program to govern the project | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, sure i'll convert my patch to move it to stackforge if TC says no today | 18:40 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i.e. whether kite falls under identity or not | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, the goal is to not release anything in icehouse that is broken-non-functional | 18:41 |
| dolphm | and the TC is going to discuss kite vs barbican, and i'm sure identity vs barbican as well | 18:41 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:41 |
| gyee | if kite is identity then so is barbican :) | 18:41 |
| jamielen- | morganfainberg: ++ i don't want what is currently KDS in icehouse | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, which isn't nessiciarly the wrong "program" for either | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, barbican and kite are not keystone and that is the important distinction | 18:42 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, it all depends on the definition | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, i didn't say it was the "right" program, but it isn't the "wrong" program. they are (imo) separate projects | 18:42 |
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| dolphm | the scope of "identity" is defined here https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/reference/programs.yaml | 18:43 |
| gyee | in the upcoming summit, lets have a session on what exactly is Keystone | 18:43 |
| dolphm | so it's up to the TC to determine of kite falls inside or outside of that scope | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, yep. just wanted to make sure everyone was aware kds/kite will be out of the repo by RC | 18:43 |
| dolphm | (i'm curious about everyone's opinions here, too) | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | it isn't ready and shouldn't be in keystone | 18:43 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:44 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, my opinion is that barbican (certs, keys, etc) same w/ KDS are forms of identity. and should be in the identitty program | 18:44 |
| ayoung | its undercloud identity management, out of the scope of keystone currently, but I think we need to loop back around on what is meant by Identity Management, and how Open Stack is approaching it for the Undercloud | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, they should be separate projects | 18:44 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:45 |
| jamielen- | dolphm: i'm happy to have it outside of keystone, but we're kind of back to where we were last summit - maybe it is, maybe it isn't, we put it in keystone because it was the quickest way | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | KDS provides an "identity" for invidual hosts inside of the undercloud that doesn't exisitng in a consistent way. KDS, OTOH, only provides symmetric keys, which are not sufficient for Identity managment purposes, too | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think Identity program should encompass cloud and undercloud (i hate "undercloud" as a term) | 18:45 |
| mordred | morganfainberg: what's wrong with undercloud? | 18:46 |
| * mordred goes back to hiding | 18:46 | |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but, as you are a fan of saying, if you squint hard enough...it looks like identity | 18:46 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, KDS and certificate management are both part of Identity management | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | mordred, i dislike "cloud" as a term ;) | 18:46 |
| mordred | morganfainberg: +100 | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | mordred, i don't have an alternative | 18:46 |
| ayoung | and we are going to be doing more certificate management as part of keystone. We already distribute signing certs | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yes. | 18:46 |
| mordred | morganfainberg: there are no alternatives - only worse words | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | Data center management | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:47 |
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| gyee | ayoung, but Keystone is not issuing certs, yet | 18:47 |
| jamielen- | ayoung: if so we should have barbican closer to keystone | 18:47 |
| ayoung | gyee, nope, and I don't think it should isssue them | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | but distribution.... | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, but i think cert issuance and distribution IS identity management | 18:47 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, I am not disagreeing | 18:48 |
| ayoung | the question is "OK I have a signed document. I know who signed it, but it has no cert embedded. Where do I get it?" | 18:48 |
| ayoung | and for messaging (pub sub) we are going to need to use PKI, cuz symmetric won't cut it | 18:48 |
| gyee | ayoung, ++ for PKI | 18:48 |
| gyee | bout time! | 18:48 |
| jamielen- | ayoung: i think that the 'no cert attached' thing is wrong and we only barely get away with it for tokens because of size | 18:49 |
| ayoung | jamielen-, its a performance tune | 18:49 |
| jamielen- | for tokens you should be syncing that cert around with puppet or whatever | 18:49 |
| ayoung | jamielen-, with messaging, the constraints will be the same | 18:49 |
| ayoung | no...puppet is the wrong tool for that | 18:49 |
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| jamielen- | the very nature of asking for a cert from someone else by name is wrong | 18:49 |
| ayoung | fetch certs on demand | 18:49 |
| gyee | ayoung, CMS/SMIME was for message security | 18:50 |
| ayoung | jamielen-, the cert distribution can be as insecure as possible. So long as the certs themselves are secure | 18:50 |
| bknudson | if I wanted a cert I'd get it from LDAP | 18:50 |
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| bknudson | someone's public cert | 18:50 |
| gyee | bkundson, cert lookup yes | 18:50 |
| gyee | cert issuance no | 18:50 |
| ayoung | bknudson, that is the solution of choice in the enterprise, yes | 18:51 |
| bknudson | I don't think we need keystone to do cert issuance... solutions exist. | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | the underclopud does not disctate LDAP | 18:51 |
| jamielen- | bknudson: ++ | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but if the whole cert chain is insecurely distributed, how do you ensure you're getting the right authoritative certificate? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | funny you should say that | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it's the idea behind trusting the root cert | 18:51 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, cert fingerprint validation is out-of-band | 18:51 |
| gyee | usually | 18:51 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, you still need to trust the root cert | 18:52 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, yes, CA certs should be synced via Puppet, or something comparable | 18:52 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, yes, but verifying the fingerprint of the cert you are importing | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ok cool as long as we're clear on that | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, no problems :) | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, it isn't about importing the cert it's about management of the CA cert | 18:52 |
| ayoung | keystone shipping the CA certs is suboptimal. Its ok if you squint, but I'd prefer a better solution | 18:52 |
| bknudson | ayoung: barbican? | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, we can't distribute the CA securely.. well we can but meh. | 18:53 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, we do it via chef | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, it was just a point of "make sure we recommend how it's supposed to go" | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, yep | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, ++ | 18:53 |
| gyee | if you don't trust chef then there's no deployment :) | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: shipping as in pki_setup? or shipping as in through the API/ | 18:53 |
| ayoung | bknudson, that is just pushing the responsibility around. A CA cert should be a long term resource, should be signed buy, like, a verasign cert and so on, and should be verified by hand once in a while, too | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, not trusting your own CMS is not an OpenStack concern | 18:54 |
| ayoung | I want pki_setup to go away...and I have a proof-of-concpet for that that aI am going to submit as a patch for devstack shortly | 18:54 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yay | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, double yay! | 18:54 |
| dolphm | and ssl_setup | 18:54 |
| jamielen- | ++ | 18:55 |
| ayoung | #link http://adam.younglogic.com/2014/02/certmonger-selfsigned-cms-cert/ | 18:55 |
| gyee | wait, you are replacing one *self-signed* with another? | 18:55 |
| dolphm | gyee: i'm assuming self-signed there is just for the sake of a reproducible example (?) | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | gyee, only for development | 18:56 |
| ayoung | gyee, the goal is to get certmonger in there, and have certmonger talk to the real CA | 18:56 |
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| gyee | k, I see | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | certmonger will talk to Barbican...or write your own CA plugin . It can already do FreeIPA | 18:57 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: since we only have a minute of two to do, wanted to draw your attention to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1284700 | 18:57 |
| ayoung | I discussed with the Barbican folks, they are on board | 18:57 |
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| jamielen- | we say all this but barbican currently has no PKI/cert abilities at all | 18:57 |
| dolphm | and certmonger is in ubntu 13.10 now -- cool | 18:57 |
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| morganfainberg | and 14.04 is coming soon, so, new LTS! | 18:58 |
| henrynash | dolphm: I just raised this…found it during testing for multi-backend….I'll be fixing that issue was well in a separate patch | 18:58 |
| gyee | ayoung, nice! I think atiwari is also working on the PKI piece for barbican | 18:58 |
| dolphm | henrynash: ack | 18:58 |
| ayoung | gyee, very cool | 18:58 |
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| * dolphm 1 min | 18:59 | |
| ayoung | gyee, one summit session needs to be around service, endpoint, and policy distribution | 18:59 |
| jamielen- | (it annoys me that barbican decided on a different HTTP framework to _everyone_ else) | 18:59 |
| ayoung | atiwari, 's issues | 18:59 |
| gyee | dolphm when you are accepting proposal for the upcoming summit? | 18:59 |
| gyee | the design summit I mean | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, they typtically go up once speaker stuff is done | 18:59 |
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| dolphm | gyee: that probably won't happen for another month | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, so probably in a couple weeks | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | or what dolphm said | 19:00 |
| stevemar | once we're able to propose sessions, we usually go through them after a few weeks, and cut it down to however many spots we have | 19:00 |
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| dolphm | open in a couple weeks, closed in a monthish, i'm guessing | 19:00 |
| dolphm | stay tuned to http://summit.openstack.org/ | 19:00 |
| gyee | dolphm, morganfainberg, cool, I'm making a list | 19:00 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: ++ | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 19:00:48 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-25-18.02.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-25-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-25-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | let's fix this topic | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | yo | 19:01 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jeblair | 19:01 | |
| stevemar | the topic was plenty good, no need to fix | 19:01 |
| *** jeblair changes topic to ""OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"" | 19:01 | |
| *** jeblair changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:01 | |
| sdague | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| *** jeblair sets mode: -o jeblair | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | all set | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 19:02:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-18-19.01.html | 19:02 |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | I'm going to reorder the agenda a bit based on priority and what we did/didn't get to last week | 19:02 |
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| fungi | it's last-week-part-two | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #topic Ongoing new project creation issues (mordred) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing new project creation issues (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| jeblair | this one is important so it gets a spot at both meetings :) | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | mordred: you have been looking into this... want to talk about your findings? | 19:03 |
| mordred | wow | 19:03 |
| mordred | I'm fancy | 19:03 |
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| mordred | yeah - so a few things | 19:03 |
| mordred | first, I want to refactor manage-projects so that it's a set of smaller special-purpose tools | 19:04 |
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| mordred | like a tool for making gerrit projects, and a tool for making github repos | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | nice | 19:04 |
| mordred | create_cgit_repos is a good example of what things shold be | 19:04 |
| mordred | along with that ,I think it'll make it easier to unittest | 19:04 |
| mordred | so that we can, you know, have some confidence that the tools at least are doing what we expect | 19:05 |
| fungi | sounds very unixy | 19:05 |
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| mordred | once taht's sorted (or maybe in parallel) | 19:05 |
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| mordred | I think that we shodl stop running manage-projects with puppet | 19:05 |
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| mordred | and should instaeda run it with salt | 19:05 |
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| anteaya | I have that on my agenda | 19:05 |
| mordred | so that we can express something like "please run these repo creation commands on the cgit mirrors, then run these gerrit project creation commands on the gerrit server" | 19:06 |
| anteaya | and have bee working on setting up a gerrit | 19:06 |
| anteaya | and am making some progress | 19:06 |
| mordred | anteaya: I'll be sure to work with you on that once I get closer to it in my mind-brain | 19:06 |
| mordred | I also just mentioned the overall plan to jesusaurus as he knows a bit of salt, so perhaps between the three of us we can knock it out | 19:06 |
| fungi | anteaya: mordred: you may want to pick up where i left off with utahdave on that too | 19:06 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Salt-Event-System | 19:06 |
| jeblair | so my understanding is that we have three major problems: 1) multi-host coordination 2) github api limits 3) it's broken for empty projects for some unknown reason | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | salt helps with 1 | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | presumably we can solve 3) with the refactor and better testing | 19:07 |
| mordred | right. so - for 2) I have two thoughts | 19:07 |
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| mordred | one is that we can just try less with github - maybe stop setting description fields and homepages, and/or only setting no-wiki/no-downloads on repo creation | 19:08 |
| mordred | which would cut down on api calls, but also remove features | 19:08 |
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| mordred | the other idea | 19:08 |
| mordred | is to make a local concept of state | 19:08 |
| mordred | so that manage-projects records what it believes it has successfully done | 19:08 |
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| mordred | and then it can more sanely choose to only to needed thigns in the future | 19:08 |
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| mordred | it would mean it would not re-set github toggles if someone went behind its back | 19:09 |
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| fungi | maybe even have it confirm that what it thinks it has done has actually been done before it records that state change, just for belt and braces | 19:09 |
| mordred | but I think I'm ok with that, since the incidence of that should be VERY low | 19:09 |
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| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | sounds reasonable | 19:09 |
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| mordred | or - possibly more specifically | 19:09 |
| clarkb | what about proxying all of the github communication and reducing it to the required | 19:09 |
| mordred | this could just be local state from the github tool | 19:09 |
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| clarkb | and rate limiting via the proxy | 19:10 |
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| mordred | how does the proxy know if a command is needed? | 19:10 |
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| fungi | clarkb: the problem with that i think is just that we make way, way, way too many github calls, unless you think the proxy could sanely cache those responses for a time | 19:10 |
| jeblair | is it a rate limit we're hitting? we have ways of dealing with that | 19:10 |
| clarkb | mordred: more I am thinking that every 15 minutes we set the description | 19:10 |
| clarkb | proxy can say no I set that yesterday drop | 19:10 |
| mordred | right. that's why I was thinking we just rework the script to stop doing the naive thing | 19:11 |
| clarkb | or, queue it up such that it eventually happens | 19:11 |
| jeblair | i think the amount of effort we invest in working with github should be minimal | 19:11 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:11 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes rate limits and ++ to that | 19:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | sorry, have some problems with my bouncer | 19:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | reading scrollback | 19:11 |
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| clarkb | 5k requests per hour | 19:11 |
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| mordred | SergeyLukjanov2: that makes me think that you're having problems with the guy who keeps unwanted patrons out of your nightclub | 19:11 |
| jeblair | clarkb: that just seems like a lot of requests | 19:11 |
| mordred | jeblair: yeah - I think we're trying WAY too hard to keep github up to date | 19:12 |
| mordred | oh... | 19:12 |
| fungi | clarkb: right. currently one full m-p run seems to use over 1k requests, so we tend to only hit it when testing the script at the moment, but might encounter it more in production over time | 19:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: anyway, i think we have the high level requirements: do less with github but keep features. maybe being smarter about using the api but also keeping state can be solutions. | 19:12 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mordred, heh, I mean irc bouncer ;) | 19:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: one approach or the other may make more sense as we dive into code | 19:13 |
| jeblair | yup | 19:13 |
| clarkb | mordred: fungi: don't forget the pull reqest closer | 19:13 |
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| clarkb | (which doesnt' seem to work at all) will factor into the request numbers | 19:13 |
| fungi | clarkb: i can't forget it--i have an open shell under the account now trying to diagnose what's wrong with the github api that's breaking it | 19:13 |
| mordred | clarkb: well... funny you should mention that | 19:13 |
| jeblair | so i think as a team we need to decide what the current situation is for new projects, and what we need to communicate | 19:13 |
| mordred | I was actually thinking that that could be re-written as a hook we register with github | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | because i'm personally confused as to which kinds of projects we should or should not create now | 19:14 |
| fungi | mordred: if you want to write that, i'll stop troubleshooting the current vague issue we have with it | 19:14 |
| jeblair | mordred: doesn't that mean we have to run a web service? | 19:14 |
| mordred | I think we can create them whenever an infra person feels like running manage-projects by hand - but that it's an as-time-allows sort of thing | 19:14 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes, it does a callback mechanism similar to the old jenkins stuff | 19:15 |
| mordred | jeblair: I was thinking about a hook that would ping zuul ... it's not a well formed thought | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | mordred: okay, let's set that aside for a bit and talk about current m-p | 19:15 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:15 |
| jeblair | i'm not comfortable running it because it breaks a lot and there isn't a defined process for how to fix it | 19:16 |
| jeblair | how to fix the resulting mess it leaves, i mean | 19:16 |
| mordred | I'm not sure it breaks when we run it by hand, does it? | 19:16 |
| mordred | all the times I've tried to trigger breakages when running it it's worked fully | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | mordred: none of the 3 problems i stated seemed to be affected by whether or not its run by hand | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | mordred: did i miss that nuance or is there a 4th? | 19:17 |
| mordred | 1) is avoided when running by hand because the cgit puppet usually runs well before you get around to running it | 19:17 |
| jeblair | mordred: how is that possible? isn't it just as likely that it would run on gerrit first? | 19:17 |
| mordred | 2) is avoided becayse I'm lazy when running by hand and only run the project in question, so don't do a full run | 19:17 |
| mordred | jeblair: nope. it's not m-p on cgit | 19:18 |
| jeblair | i refer to the whole system | 19:18 |
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| mordred | I mean - if we go back to having it turned off in puppet 100% | 19:18 |
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| mordred | no cron - no trigger | 19:18 |
| jeblair | got it, that makes sense | 19:18 |
| mordred | but leave the create_cgit_repos in ... 1 is prolly fine | 19:18 |
| mordred | and 2 is prolly fine, because we'll be running per-repo | 19:19 |
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| mordred | 3 - oy. I got nothing for 3 right now | 19:19 |
| jeblair | so that leaves "it breaks for new projects with empty repos". i assume that happens regardless? | 19:19 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:19 |
| jeblair | fungi: can you confirm or fail-to-confirm that assertion ^? | 19:19 |
| jeblair | guess not | 19:20 |
| fungi | jeblair: i have witnessed it when run under the puppet exec (and we have tracebacks) | 19:20 |
| fungi | i haven't tried to reproduce that failure mode running outside of puppet since we only witnessed it once we had reenabled automatic puppeting | 19:21 |
| jeblair | fungi: what's the solution to manually fix it? | 19:21 |
| fungi | jeblair: delete all the on-disk repos and rerun it a couple times, which leads me to believe it could still be a race of some sort in gerrit group or acl processing which we only hit when we don't import a project (that could be affecting the timing?) | 19:22 |
| fungi | all the on-disk broken repos for the project in question, that is | 19:22 |
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| fungi | the traceback is a vague "failure" from gerrit when running the create-projects api call | 19:22 |
| fungi | and there's nothing helpful in gerrit's logs that i could find | 19:23 |
| jeblair | it sounds like if we wanted to limp along, we can do so by manually running manage-projects (with possibly needing the fix fungi describes) | 19:23 |
| mordred | could we just ban completely empty projects for now to avoid 3? | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i would like to avoid that | 19:23 |
| mordred | k | 19:23 |
| clarkb | fungi: I am not convinced it it related to the group or acl things since, empty repo creation is handled entirely by gerrit | 19:23 |
| jeblair | mordred: i personally don't ever want to say "you are required to use github in order to use our system" | 19:24 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes. I completely agree | 19:24 |
| clarkb | fungi: but I need to do more debugging myself to understand what happens | 19:24 |
| fungi | clarkb: agreed. it's a stab in the dark. could be an internal gerrit issue which is fixed in later releases | 19:24 |
| jeblair | so if we're going to run it at all, then i think we need to just eat the cost of empty repos ourselves until it's fixed | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | i'm personally ok with saying "no new stackforge projects until this is fixed". but the manual process sounds tolerable, and we might be able to learn how to fix problem 3. | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | so i'm okay with that too. | 19:25 |
| jeblair | mordred, clarkb, fungi: since the 4 of us will have to manually run this thing: do you want to continue to accept new projects and run by hand as discussed, or would you prefer a moratorium? | 19:26 |
| fungi | i think if we're going to stop accepting new stackforge projects for a while, we should make a fairly broad announcement | 19:26 |
| mordred | jeblair: I'm fine with running manually when one of us feels we have time - but we should make it clear to folks that we're probably going to batch them up or something | 19:27 |
| jeblair | fungi: i agree, and a clear one that states the problem and when we expect it to be fixed | 19:27 |
| jeblair | "new project friday"? :) | 19:27 |
| mordred | :) | 19:27 |
| clarkb | mordred: batch up ++ | 19:27 |
| fungi | otherwise for some (unfortunately large number of) contributors this is their first commit and interaction with gerrit/infra, so doing through all that effort only to be told to go away is not going to give them a great impression of our processes | 19:27 |
| mordred | oh - you know what? | 19:27 |
| mordred | how about we request that people put the topic "new-project" | 19:28 |
| mordred | so that we can find new project requests | 19:28 |
| jeblair | mordred: ++ | 19:28 |
| clarkb | mordred: ++ | 19:28 |
| mordred | that'll make them easy to batch review and batch apply | 19:28 |
| fungi | i think that would help | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | so, batch manual creation weekly? | 19:28 |
| fungi | heh... new project fridays | 19:29 |
| jeblair | on fridays? | 19:29 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:29 |
| mordred | I can send a quick email - but we should probably put a note in teh stackforge docs | 19:29 |
| mordred | about it | 19:29 |
| mordred | (about teh topic) | 19:29 |
| fungi | sure. and then i'll go out and drink heavily after i'm done running (and cleaning up after) it | 19:29 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:29 |
| jeblair | #agreed new projects should have the topic "new-project" | 19:29 |
| jeblair | #agreed we will batch create new projects weekly on fridays | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | okay, final thing | 19:29 |
| clarkb | fungi: if you get a chance can you direct me to the puppet logs of failed non seeded project creations? | 19:29 |
| clarkb | fungi: I will take a look at them to get more eyes on it | 19:30 |
| jeblair | who's going to fix this, and when do we expect it to be fixed? | 19:30 |
| fungi | clarkb: i think i pasted it into the open bug, but i'll confirm | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i'd like to include that in the communication around this as well, becuase this is still a service degredation. | 19:30 |
| jeblair | and also, i don't actually want to agree to run them manually if it's not going to be fixed | 19:30 |
| fungi | i completely agree with that sentiment | 19:31 |
| mordred | jeblair: I'll fix it - I've started poking at the code anyway | 19:31 |
| mordred | and I think it's an important thing to have properly automated | 19:31 |
| anteaya | mordred: can you drag me along, I would like to learn | 19:31 |
| mordred | anteaya: yup | 19:32 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:32 |
| jeblair | mordred: ok. can you estimate when you might have something working enough for us to start trying it in production? | 19:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ++ for batching new projects requests | 19:32 |
| mordred | jeblair: depends on how much hacking I can get done on the plane on friday | 19:32 |
| mordred | can I give you an estimate on that next meeting? I don't think the code split/clean is THAT much work | 19:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | btw, I think that I can help with manually creating projects if someone teach me / grant permissions... if it sounds useful | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | mordred: yeah, but the salt thing is more complex and vague | 19:34 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes. that is true | 19:34 |
| jeblair | mordred: part of the problem is that we've been saying 'oh we should have salt run m-p' for years | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | yes, at least since last year | 19:35 |
| jeblair | so i want to have an end date for this | 19:35 |
| mordred | jeblair: well, step one is to get the scripts split up. step two is to be able to run _Those_ scripts in the proper sequence by hand to verify that it works as expected | 19:35 |
| mordred | step three woudl be to have salt run the sequence of thigns we ran by hand, yeah? | 19:35 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:35 |
| mordred | to end date | 19:35 |
| mordred | let's call it a drop-dead of mid-march | 19:35 |
| mordred | I think it's entirely reasonable to get it done by then | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | okay, so we should have it working by ttx's ski vacation | 19:36 |
| fungi | so that we can create the new ttx-goes-skiiing project | 19:36 |
| mordred | wow. I love that we all know when ttx goes on vacation | 19:36 |
| jeblair | #agreed new system ready for production-testing by mid-march | 19:37 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 19:37 |
| anteaya | mordred: you do remember I am gone for the second week of march | 19:37 |
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| mordred | anteaya: nope. I do not remember that. let's try to get it done sooner then :) | 19:37 |
| jeblair | okay, so i think we should send out an announcement that says to expect delays in new project creation through the end of march (let's give us time to deal with issues we find with the new system) | 19:38 |
| mordred | nod | 19:38 |
| anteaya | mordred: okay I will find you | 19:38 |
| jeblair | and it should also mention the topic name, and that we will batch create on fridays | 19:38 |
| mordred | I can send that | 19:38 |
| clarkb | sounds good to me | 19:38 |
| jeblair | #action mordred send new-project service degredation annoucment | 19:38 |
| jeblair | mordred: thanks! i'm very excited we have a plan | 19:39 |
| jeblair | anything else about this? | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | #topic Pip 1.5 readiness efforts (fungi, mordred) | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pip 1.5 readiness efforts (fungi, mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:40 | |
| clarkb | I can jump right in if we want to still consider this tied to tox | 19:40 |
| fungi | i can't remember if i've done anything new on this. mordred? | 19:40 |
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| fungi | looks like we've had new and unfortunate activity on clarkb tox pull request | 19:41 |
| clarkb | yes | 19:41 |
| jeblair | link? | 19:41 |
| fungi | #link https://bitbucket.org/hpk42/tox/issue/150/posargs-configerror | 19:41 |
| fungi | #link https://bitbucket.org/hpk42/tox/pull-request/85/fix-command-expansion-and-parsing/activity | 19:41 |
| fungi | the first was linked from the second (the latter being his pr) | 19:42 |
| clarkb | so I hopped over to #pylib yesterday and spoke about this | 19:42 |
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| clarkb | there are a couple issues at hand as I gain broader understanding of tox. Basically prior to 1.7.0 posargs were special in the command processing and worked the way we want them but all other variables worked as posargs does today | 19:43 |
| clarkb | so they made tox more consistent in less flexible and backward incompatible ways | 19:43 |
| clarkb | my change goes the complete opposite direction and tries to make them consistent and more flexible in backward incompatible ways | 19:43 |
| clarkb | but since my change comes second it is apparently not ok that it is backward incompatible | 19:43 |
| clarkb | ronny's suggestion is to do a different type of variable substition instead for what we want | 19:44 |
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| clarkb | but also would like holger's feedback when holger is back from vacation in a week and a half | 19:44 |
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| anteaya | what is the fallout if we do a openstack-tox branch? | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | i think we were going to call it xot | 19:45 |
| clarkb | I like botox | 19:45 |
| sdague | or just bring back run_tests.sh | 19:45 |
| clarkb | upstream is being receptive though | 19:45 |
| fungi | intoxicated | 19:45 |
| clarkb | I think they understand the problem now and appreciate how 1.7.0 broke them | 19:45 |
| clarkb | s/them/us/ | 19:45 |
| fungi | (that's a bit much to type though) | 19:45 |
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| sdague | clarkb: will there be a way to be compatible across that boundary | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | fungi: the command would be "drink" | 19:46 |
| clarkb | sdague: yeah by introducing a new feature that does sane argument parsing | 19:46 |
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| sdague | clarkb: ok | 19:46 |
| fungi | dhellmann: you have a good point | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: remind me why pip 1.5 might be dependent on this? | 19:46 |
| mordred | so - quick question - | 19:46 |
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| mordred | jeblair: we get pip via tox | 19:47 |
| clarkb | jeblair: because tox 1.7.0 bundles pip 1.5 so as long as we use tox 1.6.1 we use older pip | 19:47 |
| jeblair | gotcha | 19:47 |
| fungi | if we want a tox version which includes pip 1.5 or later | 19:47 |
| fungi | that | 19:47 |
| clarkb | we do have a few potential workaround if we want to use tox 1.7.0 | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | we can stop using python setup.py test and go back to the small shell snippet | 19:48 |
| clarkb | we can update python setup.py test to treat posargs as testrargs | 19:48 |
| clarkb | basically do what tox does in setup.py | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | both of these changes will work with tox 1.6.1 and 1.70 | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | I still maintain tox is broken and my arg parser is better >_> but I don't see me winning that battle | 19:49 |
| mordred | I'd rather do the second thing - but I think I failed last time I tried doing that | 19:49 |
| jeblair | but both of them require updating all branches of all repos | 19:49 |
| clarkb | jeblair: correct | 19:50 |
| fungi | but will require changes to all projects (or can we shim that with pbr?) | 19:50 |
| mordred | because the args string is actually parsed by setuptools and then handed to us | 19:50 |
| mordred | clarkb: what gets passed to tox in the broken version? | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | mordred: an argv with posargs in it | 19:50 |
| clarkb | which is then appended to the argv built from the command | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | so it doesn't get shlex'd in the way you might expect, the literal argv array is appended to the argv apssed to exec | 19:51 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:51 |
| mordred | gotcha | 19:51 |
| clarkb | its a cheap way to ignore escaping rules but isn't very flexible | 19:51 |
| jeblair | clarkb, mordred: do you want to make a decision now, or wait a few weeks for holger? | 19:52 |
| mordred | I thnk we shoudl wait a few weeks | 19:52 |
| clarkb | I am tempted to wait for holger so that we are good citizens | 19:52 |
| mordred | I don't want to touch pip during ff period anyway | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | good point | 19:52 |
| jeblair | so we're probably actually looking at what to do for J at this point? | 19:53 |
| clarkb | yes | 19:53 |
| * fungi concurs. slushy from this point onward i think | 19:53 | |
| jeblair | #agreed wait for holger to weigh in on tox changes; target pip 1.5 for Juno | 19:53 |
| ttx | slushy slush | 19:54 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:54 | |
| jeblair | i don't think we have sufficient time for any other major items, so anyone have any smaller items to mention? | 19:54 |
| mordred | there is some pypi-mirror refactoring up | 19:55 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fyi I've started working on extracting common jobs to templates for layout.yaml, starting from requirements check and pypi release | 19:55 |
| fungi | new elasticsearch cluster is on the way, maybe by my dinnertime | 19:55 |
| zaro | any ETA on az2 so i can run a working build? | 19:55 |
| jeblair | zaro: i haven't heard anything new | 19:55 |
| mordred | that YorikSar helped me make better than I was making it - which was all driven by trying to re-think how pypi-mirror deals with errors and stuff | 19:55 |
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| fungi | also the change to no longer download wheels in pypi-mirror merged yesterday, and we're getting complete mirroring once more | 19:56 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:57 |
| clarkb | fungi: it may take longer than that :P depends on how long data ends up replicating to new nodes allowing us to shut off old ones (we only have one node of redundancy so can turn everything off all at once) | 19:57 |
| fungi | oh, and i've proposed we stop running grenade on havana a week early | 19:57 |
| clarkb | fungi: woot | 19:57 |
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| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:58 |
| jeblair | thanks all! | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 19:58:31 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-25-19.02.html | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-25-19.02.txt | 19:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-25-19.02.log.html | 19:58 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:00 |
| markmc | hey | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | hi | 20:00 |
| mordred | o hai | 20:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:00 |
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| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | annegentle, jgriffith, vishy, jeblair, lifeless, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
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| lifeless | ttx: mostly | 20:01 |
| lifeless | ttx: have to do a kindy run in a minute | 20:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | 9-10, that makes enough of us | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 20:01:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | So I'm back, yay | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #topic Progress on DefCore feedback | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress on DefCore feedback (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74483/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | I hope everyone had a chance to catch up with the current draft over the week | 20:02 |
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| ttx | So far we had a number of +1s on the review. Comments ? Strong objections ? | 20:02 |
| mikal | I haven't received any negative comments | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Counting mikal's implied +1 that makes 8 YES and no objection, so I can approve it after meeting | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | I'm assuming we'll make a pass for typos and punctuation and stuff before sending it? | 20:03 |
| jeblair | i think i agree with just about everything in it | 20:03 |
| * jgriffith needs a bit more time | 20:03 | |
| mikal | dhellmann: comment on errors in gerrit and I will fix | 20:03 |
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| dhellmann | mikal: ok, there were lots of sentences in bullets without caps on the first char, so that may just be a style thing | 20:03 |
| ttx | dhellmann: Ideally we'd fix typos and punctuation BEFORE writing it as a final resolution | 20:03 |
| zehicle_at_dell | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | mikal: do you know when the next DefCore meeting will be ? | 20:04 |
| ttx | Ah! I guess zehicle knows | 20:04 |
| mikal | Heh | 20:04 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx: Monday | 20:04 |
| mikal | There's a physical meeting soon | 20:04 |
| mikal | And a VC at a time which doesn't work for me this week IIRC | 20:04 |
| zehicle_at_dell | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreElephant.5 | 20:05 |
| mikal | I missed last weeks meeting because my day sucked, which I apologise for | 20:05 |
| ttx | mikal: so it would be great to have the final base position approved by then, so that you can represent it | 20:05 |
| zehicle_at_dell | #https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreElephant.4 from last time, we try to keep good notes | 20:05 |
| mikal | Oh, there's a remote option now | 20:05 |
| mikal | Cool | 20:05 |
| ttx | or anne may be able to stand in for you | 20:05 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: is the "more time" you need measured in minutes or days ? | 20:06 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: I'm done | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | ttx: waiting for people to throw shoes at me | 20:06 |
| ttx | jgriffith: and what's the verdict ? | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | I'm a -1 | 20:06 |
| vishy | sorry i'm late, my irc bouncer crashed | 20:06 |
| ttx | hah! | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | Most of it I agree with | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | but I can't get passed the "black box API" suggestion | 20:07 |
| ttx | "disagree that API blackbox is the right answer. Anybody can write an interface for anything that's 100% compat with OpenStack API's so this IMO misses the point." | 20:07 |
| mikal | jgriffith: reading your comment | 20:07 |
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| mikal | jgriffith: we're not saying that black box is _the_ answer | 20:07 |
| mikal | jgriffith: we're saying is the _start_ of an answer | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | ttx: was nice enough to paste it above :) | 20:07 |
| markmc | jgriffith, the trademark rules already require you to run the code | 20:07 |
| ttx | let's allocate 10 minutes to discuss that, I don't want it to steal all the meeting time | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | mikal: then it shouldn't be suggested IMO | 20:07 |
| markmc | jgriffith, the requirement is rather vague though | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | markmc: hey... I'm just one guy, and I get to vote | 20:08 |
| mikal | jgriffith: well, we say its what we think can get done for Icehouse and that we'll iterate | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | markmc: if I'm crazy so beit :) | 20:08 |
| markmc | jgriffith, of course - I'm just discussing ? | 20:08 |
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| lifeless | so I share jgriffith's concern FWIW | 20:08 |
| markmc | jgriffith, clarifying ... | 20:08 |
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| jgriffith | markmc: understood sorry | 20:08 |
| lifeless | but I also agree that black box testing is a good, common, necessary but not sufficient condition | 20:08 |
| * jgriffith tries to be funny sometimes and it doesn't work out well | 20:08 | |
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| ttx | lifeless: it's only a first step, if you read the draft | 20:08 |
| ttx | lifeless: as in, better than nothing and maybe doable for icehouse release | 20:09 |
| lifeless | ttx: I know | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: that's kinda the way I feel.. the API component is assumed IMO | 20:09 |
| lifeless | ttx: I voted +1 on the draft. | 20:09 |
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| mikal | API testing is also better than what we have now | 20:09 |
| mikal | Which is mostly a hand wavey promise | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | I feel I may be worrying about this more than I should | 20:09 |
| markmc | no-one is saying passing API tests is sufficient alone for TM usage | 20:09 |
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| jeblair | last time we discussed that the current state is that you must "run all the code" to use the trademark, and the suggestions in the draft wouldn't change that.... | 20:10 |
| ttx | that draft doesn't claim to have an answer. It exposes some discomfort with the question that was asked, requires clarification on a number of items and proposes a first achievable step for icehosue | 20:10 |
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| jgriffith | markmc: fair enough | 20:10 |
| jeblair | jgriffith: do you want a response that makes that more explicit? | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | jgriffith: I do share some of your concern, maybe we can make the wording stronger? | 20:10 |
| sdague | so, out of curiosity, has anyone sniff tested that APIs for the big openstack public clouds | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | markmc: jeblair yes, explicit is better than implicit IMO | 20:10 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: elephant in the room | 20:11 |
| mikal | sdague: could you consider nodepool to be a simple sniff test? | 20:11 |
| jeblair | sdague: o/ :) | 20:11 |
| mordred | sdague: infra uses hp and rax | 20:11 |
| mordred | yeah | 20:11 |
| mordred | what mikal said | 20:11 |
| lifeless | ttx: I have to drop out for 10m to drop C off at kindy | 20:11 |
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| ttx | lifeless: ack | 20:11 |
| sdague | mordred: yeh, through novaclient, which hides a ton of differences | 20:11 |
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| ttx | lifeless: we shall have moved on | 20:11 |
| mordred | hehe. we should just say "if nodepool works, you're openstack" :) | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | mordred: are HP and RAX the only ones that matter, and do you use the API's that heavily? | 20:11 |
| * mordred is joking | 20:11 | |
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| sdague | and I know defcore is talking about tempest as a basis for some of this. It just seems like some early data would be handy to understand how sane the approach is | 20:12 |
| jeblair | sdague: it's full of "if we detect rackspace behavior, do rackspace thing", but i fear most of that isn't api violations, it's, erm, "flexibility" in what the api allows | 20:12 |
| mordred | jgriffith: nope to both - just saying, we _do_ use the apis in production across four different openstack versions of cloud successfully | 20:12 |
| mikal | I think maybe if people have concerns big enough to vote -1 they should comment in gerrit so they're tracked | 20:12 |
| jgriffith | mordred: fair | 20:12 |
| mordred | and what jeblair said | 20:12 |
| jgriffith | mikal: I did | 20:12 |
| mikal | jgriffith: I know, but others are concerned now too. You've started a thing. | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | dang me!!! | 20:13 |
| mikal | I don't mind taking some time today to try and address people's concerns | 20:13 |
| mikal | But we should try to not keep defcore people waiting too long | 20:13 |
| jeblair | mikal: i still support the draft as written, but would also support adding something that addresses jgriffith's concerns | 20:13 |
| ttx | OK, let's continue the discussion in the code review, and raise any strong disagreement as a -tc thread. See what we can come up in time for the next DefCore meeting (Monday) | 20:13 |
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| jgriffith | My suggestion would be API compat as a seperate effort/proposal or at least a sub-task | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | but that it be explicit that that's what it is | 20:13 |
| jeblair | mikal: (because i feel it's making something explicit that is currently implicit) | 20:14 |
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| dhellmann | mikal: my concerns were eased by the statement that this is just the start and we already require "all the code" | 20:14 |
| mikal | jgriffith: let's have a chat in PM after the meeting and see if we can nail something down | 20:14 |
| jgriffith | mikal: sure | 20:14 |
| ttx | mikal: +1 | 20:14 |
| mikal | dhellmann: I'm not 100% sure the words are "all the code" or just "the code". | 20:14 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: that's a valid point | 20:14 |
| mikal | markmc: ^-- do you know which? | 20:14 |
| mordred | I believe it's "the code" | 20:15 |
| markmc | mikal, digging up a link now | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | "the code" isn't "some of the code" so isn't it "all the code"? | 20:15 |
| mikal | I can certainly add something saying we believe that statement shouldn't be removed yet | 20:15 |
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| mikal | i.e. API tests are not a sufficient replacement | 20:15 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: explicit is better than implicit | 20:15 |
| markmc | " | 20:15 |
| markmc | include the entirety of the OpenStack [..] code from either of the latest | 20:15 |
| markmc | two releases and associated milestones, but no older, and | 20:15 |
| markmc | " | 20:15 |
| jgriffith | I can translate english however is convenient | 20:16 |
| * markmc looking at https://raw.github.com/markmc/governance/defcore/resolutions/20140211-tc_defcore_response | 20:16 | |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | "entirety" sounds like "all" | 20:16 |
| * annegentle_web slides into the back of the room | 20:16 | |
| markmc | jbryce quoted here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026559.html | 20:16 |
| ttx | OK, time is up. Let's continue iterating on the draft, with the Monday deadline in mind | 20:16 |
| ttx | and move on | 20:16 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:16 |
| mikal | Cool | 20:16 |
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| ttx | #topic Creating key distribution service (KDS) under identity program | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Creating key distribution service (KDS) under identity program (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:17 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/73022/ | 20:17 |
| ttx | So... As I mentioned in http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-February/000540.html ... | 20:17 |
| ttx | We don't need to approve project additions to a program, unless one of the TC members flags it as potentially overstepping defined bounds, in which case we schedule a discussion about it | 20:17 |
| ttx | And obviously if the project files for incubation, it needs to go through our regular procedure (incubation request) | 20:17 |
| ttx | Here there are two issues. One is the addition to the "integrated" section, which obviously can't happen before Juno starts... but I think that was just misplacement in the YAML | 20:18 |
| ttx | The other is about the project addition itself, which I flagged for discussion and put on the agenda | 20:18 |
| ttx | My question is, how this would be affected long-term by Barbican, which also promises to "distribute keys" ? | 20:18 |
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| ttx | dolphm: you around ? | 20:18 |
| ttx | jraim_ too | 20:19 |
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| jraim_ | ttx: I'm here | 20:19 |
| dolphm | ttx: o/ | 20:19 |
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| ttx | dolphm: could you first confirm that you just want to add a new project to the program, not a new integrated piece to openStack common release ? | 20:19 |
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| dolphm | ttx: exactly - when/whether it's integrated isn't my immediate concern at all | 20:20 |
| ttx | dolphm: ok, good | 20:20 |
| dolphm | i really just want to ensure that the code has a proper place to live next week (outside of keystone) | 20:20 |
| ttx | My understanding was that this is a temporary change, more to avoid shipping the KDS *in* Keystone in Icehouse and have to maintain/deprecate it in the near future when Barbican will be ready to replace it | 20:21 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I'd like for DefCore to take up answering these questions at the meeting on Monday | 20:21 |
| dolphm | ttx: correct | 20:21 |
| russellb | zehicle_at_dell: the questions in the draft response? | 20:21 |
| ttx | zehicle: maybe follow the draft review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74483/ | 20:21 |
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| dolphm | the key dist implementation isn't ready to ship, and even if it was - it's a discrete service bundled into the tree that doesn't really belong (nor share anything in common with keystone outside of keystone.openstack.common) | 20:21 |
| zehicle_at_dell | russellb & ttx, ok thanks | 20:21 |
| ttx | dolphm: If that's the case (temporary), then I'm not sure we should use the openstack/* namespace for temporary drops of code | 20:22 |
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| ttx | This could live in stackforge with a specific set of core devs | 20:22 |
| dolphm | stackforge/ is absolutely fine with me | 20:22 |
| ttx | especially if we approve barbican soon | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | what's the relationship between this code and barbican? are they separate implementations of the same feature? | 20:22 |
| russellb | IMO, the reason we pushed for keystone to ship this a long time ago is because it seemed to fit OK with the program, and we thought we could get it out sooner that way | 20:23 |
| ttx | I understand the need for that code to live somewhere, in a somewhere that is not Keystone icehouse release | 20:23 |
| russellb | but if we're approving barbican soon (seems likely), it's making less and less sense i think ... | 20:23 |
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| russellb | barbican doesn't support what this does, though | 20:23 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: kds / kite is providing a heavily requested feature for nova (the groundwork for secure messaging); which potentially overlaps with barbican's long term roadmap | 20:23 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: today, they don't overlap | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:24 |
| ttx | russellb: that's why if tha code needs to live somewhere, I'd rather have it in stackforge | 20:24 |
| mordred | to be contrary | 20:24 |
| russellb | but nova can't really use it unless it's an official project IMO | 20:24 |
| russellb | so we're no better off | 20:24 |
| jraim_ | agree with dolph. From my point of view, the point of putting kds into keystone was to launch before barbican was ready. It doesn't seem ready for icehouse, so it seems like we could subsume it into barbican for juno | 20:24 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, and it wasn't clear when they would overlap. | 20:24 |
| mordred | dolphm: do you feel that people doing work on this are doing work that's part of the openstack identity program? | 20:24 |
| ttx | mordred: they are looking like a separate group of people to me | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | we have lots of repositories in openstack/* that aren't integrated but are owned by an official program; what's the issue with adding this one? | 20:25 |
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| sdague | does that mean we are waiting for secure messaging until barbican is an integrated project? | 20:25 |
| mordred | dhellmann: that's what I was getting at | 20:25 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it's the fact that we all think it will have to be removed in 6 months | 20:25 |
| russellb | sdague: that's what we were originally hoping to avoid ... | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | ttx: why do we think that? | 20:25 |
| russellb | but if it's split into its own project, and not an extension to keystone, it's not going to happen any sooner | 20:25 |
| ttx | dhellmann: because it's overlapping with Barbican goals | 20:25 |
| mordred | ttx: I heard "on barbican's long-term roadmap" | 20:25 |
| mordred | ttx: I did not hear 6 months | 20:25 |
| ttx | mordred: I heard "in Juno" | 20:26 |
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| ttx | "it seems like we could subsume it into barbican for juno" | 20:26 |
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| sdague | ttx: sure, but that doesn't help nova | 20:26 |
| dolphm | mordred: there's not substantial contributions from the existing keystone community | 20:26 |
| * markmc has to drop off | 20:26 | |
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| mordred | kk | 20:26 |
| ttx | I mean, if it's meant to live for a few cycles, then I agree to have it in openstack/kite | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | sdague: is nova going to use a non-integrated project from keystone? | 20:26 |
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| jraim_ | mordred: I don't think I have a problem with the feature in theory, but no work in Barbican has been done to support it yet | 20:26 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, originally that was not an option during the earlier conversations, it wasn't clear when the overlap/move to barbican would occur | 20:27 |
| sdague | dhellmann: well that's the other open question | 20:27 |
| ttx | but if everyone wants it to die after icehouse, then it feels a bit weird | 20:27 |
| russellb | dhellmann: sdague no... | 20:27 |
| sdague | and the answer should be no | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | russellb: right, that's what I thought | 20:27 |
| sdague | like russellb said | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | +1 | 20:27 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: I would not be asking this question if we weren't considerign barbican for incubation | 20:27 |
| russellb | if this has to be a new project, and it's on incubation cycle and such, i think we should be shooting for barbican | 20:28 |
| ttx | that changed the rules a bit | 20:28 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, makes perfect sense. | 20:28 |
| russellb | it only makes sense outside of barbican if it could have been an extension to keystone that could be released much quicker | 20:28 |
| russellb | IMO, anyway | 20:28 |
| ttx | russellb: it won't be an integrated project anyway | 20:28 |
| ttx | (kite) | 20:28 |
| russellb | right | 20:28 |
| russellb | and possibly never will be | 20:28 |
| russellb | and if that's the case, i don't think nova (or more accurately, oslo.messaging, right?) will use it | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | is the purpose of this new repo to preserve the kite code somewhere out of the keystone repo? | 20:29 |
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| dolphm | dhellmann: that is my immediate goal | 20:29 |
| russellb | which i'm certainly disappointed by, we've been talking about this functionality for years | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: could we just make a branch where we keep it and delete it from master? | 20:29 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: i don't want to see it ship as an incomplete implementation of a complete service in keystone.contrib.kds | 20:29 |
| dolphm | discrete service* | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: makes sense | 20:30 |
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| sdague | so if the code has no actual life, because no one is going to use it, why do we care where it lives? | 20:30 |
| russellb | :( | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | but do we need a new repo to preserve it, esp. if it's going to merge with barbican soon? | 20:30 |
| ttx | so it boils down to: the expectations of durability of a project below openstack/* vs. the expectations of consumability of something under stackforge | 20:30 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: the code is written to be ripped out into it's own repo - i'd like to do that sooner before we accidentally make calls across projects and make separation more difficult | 20:30 |
| russellb | do we expect this project to apply for incubation? | 20:31 |
| sdague | dhellmann: why would we think it would merge into barbican vs. them writing their own version of this which fits better in their project | 20:31 |
| russellb | if not, the whole thing is moot, nobody is going to use it | 20:31 |
| jeblair | dolphm: is active development going to happen in that repo before it is merged into barbican? | 20:31 |
| ttx | russellb: no, unless we reject barbican from incubation next week | 20:31 |
| russellb | ok, just wanted to make sure that's clear | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | sdague: semantics? If this is going away because of barbican, does it need to live on its own anywhere? | 20:31 |
| russellb | this is something we don't expect to ever get used at this point, then :( | 20:31 |
| dolphm | jeblair: so far, it only has one contributing developers, and a few of us have been regular reviewers; i don't know if i can predict any change there | 20:31 |
| sdague | dhellmann: that's kind of my question | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: ditto | 20:32 |
| russellb | sounds like git rm is the answer | 20:32 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right. This is a temporary code drop. I don't think we should use the openstack/ù* namespoace fopr temporary code drops | 20:32 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm headed down the path of git rm | 20:32 |
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| jraim_ | jeblair: I imagine barbican will take the functionality, but not necessarily the code | 20:32 |
| markmcclain | +1 | 20:32 |
| ttx | russellb: i'm fine with stackforge or git rm | 20:32 |
| russellb | because barbican has now become the quicker path to getting this functionality into the integrated release | 20:32 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I agree, I didn't realize it was gong away that soon | 20:32 |
| sdague | jraim_: right, that's what I expected | 20:32 |
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| sdague | ttx: I think abandonware on stackforge is the wrong answer | 20:33 |
| ttx | maybe we should rule on barbican first | 20:33 |
| lifeless | back | 20:33 |
| russellb | i think we've been pretty positive on barbican so far | 20:33 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:34 |
| russellb | just waiting on final requirements to get met | 20:34 |
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| ttx | sdague: don't think abandonware. Think temporaryware. | 20:34 |
| markmcclain | so can we just park it in an feature branch temporalily? | 20:34 |
| sdague | ttx: it's only temporaryware if someone is going to use it | 20:34 |
| jraim_ | russellb: we should be pretty close, just final tweaks to gate job. I was planning on asking for our final review next week assuming no more speedbumps show up | 20:34 |
| mordred | markmcclain: why even bother? it's in the git history already | 20:34 |
| ttx | sdague: oh ok, i see your point | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | mordred: just ease, but fair point | 20:34 |
| sdague | mordred: ++ | 20:34 |
| russellb | mordred: markmcclain unless they still want to work on it | 20:35 |
| dolphm | mordred: there are outstanding patches in review; i'd like to keep them moving | 20:35 |
| mordred | ok | 20:35 |
| ttx | yes, git rm sounds like the answer here | 20:35 |
| sdague | dolphm: but, why? | 20:35 |
| dolphm | mordred: i don't want to see the effort die, unless it's being picked up someplace else | 20:35 |
| sdague | because I think we just decided it's a dead end | 20:35 |
| markmcclain | mordred: good point… I wasn't sure of the state of continuing work on it | 20:35 |
| sdague | because it will never be used in anything, so it seems like spending time on it is just a big waste | 20:35 |
| jeblair | and jraim_ suggested they might not take the code | 20:35 |
| ttx | until barbican picks it up it's good to keep it alive ? | 20:35 |
| jraim_ | jeblair: not sure either way. There are differences in frameworks, but some code might be usable. I haven't looked at it enough to know yet | 20:36 |
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| jeblair | it's not a great experience to hack on dead-end code; i think the sooner we can point the devs at where this really should end up, the better. | 20:37 |
| sdague | so it really feels like either there is a commitment to get this out there an integrated soon, or we just strategically go in the direction of barbican (assuming all well there) | 20:37 |
| sdague | jeblair: ++ | 20:37 |
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| dolphm | sdague: if the feature set is being moved to barbican then that's a viable solution i'm just as happy with | 20:40 |
| russellb | ttx: as long as those working on it understand the likely end game ... | 20:40 |
| russellb | it's not fair to folks to let them think otherwise | 20:40 |
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| ttx | they should rather join barbican imho | 20:40 |
| dolphm | the service side work has taken place under this bp - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/key-distribution-server | 20:40 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:40 |
| ttx | make sure their concerns are taken into account | 20:40 |
| dolphm | there's still a few things in review with recent revisions | 20:40 |
| russellb | help work on barbican | 20:40 |
| ttx | dolphm: ideally you should rip it off by feature freeze | 20:40 |
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| dolphm | jeblair: barbican might not take the bulk of the code due to falcon vs pecan/wsme, and probably difference in backend architecture | 20:40 |
| dolphm | ttx: +++ | 20:40 |
| ttx | dolphm: you could use a feature branch,n as long as those working on it know about the future | 20:40 |
| ttx | we need to move on | 20:40 |
| russellb | which uses falcon? | 20:40 |
| dolphm | russellb: barbican | 20:40 |
| russellb | sigh ok | 20:40 |
| ttx | I think we have general agreement that adding a project is not the way to go | 20:40 |
| dolphm | ttx: so, stackforge repo or feature branch? | 20:40 |
| ttx | feature branch does not require us approving you :) | 20:40 |
| russellb | or git rm, or private github repo, or ... whatever | 20:40 |
| ttx | ok, we need to move on | 20:40 |
| dolphm | alright - that's good enough for me until after feature freeze :) | 20:40 |
| ttx | and we shall have an answer for barbican next week | 20:40 |
| ttx | if patches land | 20:40 |
| ttx | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron | 20:40 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseProjectReviewNeutron | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: ready? | 20:40 |
| markmcclain | yep | 20:40 |
| ttx | step 2 in our "let's apply new rules to old projects" | 20:40 |
| ttx | wow lag | 20:41 |
| lifeless | do we have any guarantees of durability ? | 20:41 |
| lifeless | bah, sorry, reading backlog :) | 20:41 |
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| russellb | markmcclain: distributed virtual router ... merged? | 20:41 |
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| markmcclain | no… DVR is likely to merge in Juno | 20:42 |
| russellb | OK | 20:42 |
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| russellb | other big thing is the migration plan | 20:42 |
| markmcclain | we will merge several HA features before Icehouse closes | 20:42 |
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| russellb | folks aren't happy with the "just snapshot to glance and re-deploy" migration option | 20:42 |
| russellb | well one of the other big things, there are a few | 20:43 |
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| markmcclain | yeah… I'm working on finding a resource to see how we can integrate nova-net as a backend in Neutron | 20:43 |
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| russellb | heh, cool | 20:43 |
| russellb | so ... production viable open source plugins | 20:43 |
| russellb | seems to be some thought that they may require a rewrite | 20:43 |
| jeblair | ttx: is there an etherpad for this? | 20:43 |
| russellb | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseProjectReviewNeutron | 20:44 |
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| markmcclain | The team has spent a lot of time making the current crop of agents more scalable | 20:44 |
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| russellb | OK ... maybe we can find a way to do some scale / performance testing during juno | 20:44 |
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| markmcclain | yeah that is on our list | 20:45 |
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| russellb | ok, cool, i think we really do need some confidence there, using some data | 20:45 |
| markmcclain | there will eventually be a point at which we'll point folks towards the open source or proprietary controllers | 20:46 |
| russellb | nova + neutron integration code is already in flight it seems, so that's looking promising | 20:46 |
| sdague | yeh, agreed. Because it seems like the openvswitch implementation in tree has definitely been a pain point | 20:46 |
| jeblair | lifeless: what is tripleo using? | 20:46 |
| russellb | right | 20:46 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: neutron | 20:47 |
| jeblair | lifeless: sorry i mean what controller? | 20:47 |
| lifeless | jeblair: ml2 + ovs | 20:47 |
| sdague | so I guess the other question I have overall is scope. Because it seems like we keep adding *aaS services into neutron, as I keep getting review requests in devstack and neutron for them :) | 20:47 |
| russellb | sdague: +1 | 20:47 |
| sdague | s/neutron/tempest/ | 20:47 |
| lifeless | jeblair: we're not using a full fledged SDN controller yet. Would love markmcclain to tell me what one Neutron recommends :) | 20:47 |
| sdague | so I think neutron is now exceeding nova in number of agents | 20:47 |
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| markmcclain | sdague: so we're only support 3 adv services right now: Firewall, VPN, and Loadbalancing | 20:48 |
| jeblair | k, good so that's a miniature production deployment using an open source crontroller where we as a project will have a lot of visibility | 20:48 |
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| lifeless | FWIW neutron agents handle outages better than nova's. | 20:48 |
| ttx | sdague: difficult to tell, we haven't a mission statement describing scope yet :) | 20:48 |
| sdague | jeblair: well, ml2 + ovs isn't really an open source control compared to what you think of as an SDN | 20:48 |
| lifeless | exactly | 20:49 |
| russellb | markmcclain: do you feel like the punch list for what's blocking deprecation of nova-network is well understood? | 20:49 |
| lifeless | (exactly to sdague's comment) | 20:49 |
| markmcclain | yeah ml2 is not a full sdn solution | 20:49 |
| russellb | i feel like it is, but want to make sure we're on the same page | 20:49 |
| lifeless | perhaps there should be a set of bugs | 20:49 |
| lifeless | marked with a tag | 20:49 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: so that's all networky services. Do you foresee any other networky service to be added on top ? QoS ? | 20:49 |
| lifeless | so we can burn them down | 20:49 |
| markmcclain | lifeless: so beagles has been tracking those items | 20:50 |
| markmcclain | created bugs where we didn't have a blueprint covering other work | 20:50 |
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| sdague | markmcclain: so is there are reason advanced services aren't being done trove style or NFV? I guess that's my long term concern on growth there | 20:50 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: is there a single url I can visit that shows the status? E.g. a bug search, or a blueprint search ? | 20:50 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: if we have to say 'look in these N places' it becomes massively harder to get folk up to speed | 20:51 |
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| markmcclain | sdague: yes… some of the advanced services really benefit from direct integration | 20:51 |
| russellb | hm, 8 minutes left | 20:52 |
| sdague | ok, so I guess in project scope / mission statement that should be indicated somewhere. Because turning on VPNaaS last fall cranked up the failure rate because of the extra load on the backend | 20:52 |
| sdague | so there is also a cost of adding more services here as well | 20:52 |
| russellb | i guess an important question is, if neutron were applying for graduation today, what would we say? what feedback would we have? | 20:52 |
| markmcclain | lifeless: there was wiki we've tracking most of Icehouse, but I got a report late yesterday that the maintainer wants to redo it again | 20:53 |
| markmc | russellb, right | 20:53 |
| sdague | I think my big 2 issues would be: 1 - not at parity with testing | 20:53 |
| markmc | I think our advice/requirements would mostly be about parity | 20:53 |
| sdague | 2 - unclear scope boundary | 20:53 |
| markmc | the way we're approaching ironic now | 20:53 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: if I can make a suggestion, get a set of bugs together, mark them high, tag them, and get russellb to agree that they are both necessary and sufficient :) | 20:53 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: one place, one search, automatically kept up to date as things land. | 20:53 |
| markmcclain | sdague: yeah we're working on making the services run within the same agent to reduce the load issue | 20:53 |
| markmc | are there lessons learned from nova-network->neutron that we can apply to nova-bm->ironic | 20:54 |
| russellb | markmc: agreed | 20:54 |
| lifeless | I'd add a 3- vendor participation | 20:54 |
| markmc | e.g. no new features, no increase in scope, until you reach parity | 20:54 |
| lifeless | from the outside, the core of neutron is very small | 20:54 |
| lifeless | for all that the team is big | 20:54 |
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| markmcclain | lifeless: agreed a few items didn't fit into bugs | 20:54 |
| russellb | markmc: yes that, and no calling ironic done/integrated until we get there | 20:54 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: use a hammer :P | 20:54 |
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| markmc | russellb, nod | 20:54 |
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| markmc | are we saying we wouldn't graduate neutron now? | 20:55 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on to the rest of the agenda. Do you need to continue the discussion on this next week ? Or is the feedback clear enough ? | 20:55 |
| markmcclain | lifeless: I'd argue vendor participation is healthy | 20:55 |
| russellb | markmc: that's my opinion, i'm afraid | 20:55 |
| russellb | ttx: not done IMO | 20:55 |
| russellb | but we can finish quick | 20:55 |
| markmc | ttx, need to continue - no point in making this review a checkbox | 20:55 |
| markmcclain | The deployer side is one that I've been trying to grow more | 20:55 |
| russellb | or continue next week | 20:55 |
| ttx | I'm fine with continuing next week | 20:55 |
| russellb | but basically 1) would we graduate neutron and 2) if not, what timelines / expectations do we have for those expectations to be met now | 20:56 |
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| ttx | we need to have clear outcomes if the current situation is not satisfactory | 20:56 |
| russellb | ok | 20:56 |
| ttx | OK, let's table this and continue next week | 20:56 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: ok thats great; it just *looked* like many vendors were poking at their driver only. | 20:56 |
| sdague | ok | 20:56 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: with patches taking months to get reviews | 20:56 |
| ttx | since I think that's a very valuable discussion to have | 20:56 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: if they were for the core | 20:56 |
| sdague | ttx: ++ | 20:57 |
| ttx | #info to be continued next week | 20:57 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: if thats changed, I'm super happy :) | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| markmcclain | lifeless: so of the vendor patches got pushed to back of the queue to focus on testing | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add oslo.test to the Oslo program [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74117/] | 20:57 |
| ttx | I'll approve this one now, enough +1s already | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Add Infrastructure Program mission [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74494/] | 20:57 |
| ttx | Since this was previously approved, it's more a housekeeping item, so I can probably approve this one too | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Oslo program changes (oslo.vmware addition) [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74570/] | 20:58 |
| ttx | this one needs Doug's approval as Oslo PTL, then unless someone objects and flags it for further discussion I will approve it | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | I +1ed it earlier today, I think | 20:58 |
| ttx | indeed | 20:58 |
| sdague | dhellmann: there still a rename that needs to happen? | 20:58 |
| ttx | so unless someone objects I'll approve it tomorrow | 20:58 |
| sdague | or just deal with that after | 20:58 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| dhellmann | sdague: the oslo.test library is now "oslotest" but I was going to wait until after the feature freeze thaws to mess with the repo name | 20:59 |
| ttx | FWIW I reorganized the proposals for the BoD/TC meeting agenda at: | 20:59 |
| ttx | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-tc-board-meeting-ideas | 20:59 |
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| ttx | I'll synthesize this and work with Alan to see which (and how much) we can fit in two hours | 20:59 |
| ttx | Last minute thoughts ? | 20:59 |
| mikal | I've tweaked the defcore draft | 20:59 |
| jeblair | sdague, ttx we're starting to use the governance repo directly for the ATC scripts, so keeping that yaml file current would be better than having it represent a hopeful future state | 21:00 |
| mikal | People should look again | 21:00 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: I need to chat with you about using d-g for testing oslo.test, see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74408/ | 21:00 |
| ttx | jeblair: agreed | 21:00 |
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| ttx | mikal: thanks | 21:00 |
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| sdague | dhellman_: sure, to -infra with that | 21:00 |
| ttx | and that concludes this meeting | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 21:00:50 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-25-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-25-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-25-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| ttx | thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: (still) around ? | 21:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:01 |
| markwash | o/ | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:01 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 21:01 |
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| david_lyle | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | We don't have a lot on the agenda, so this should be quick, unless someone has a surprise item | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 21:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** david_lyle is now known as david-lyle | 21:01 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic Swift 1.13.0 RC | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift 1.13.0 RC (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
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| ttx | Early this morning I cut the milestone-proposed branch from the SHA that notmyname gave me for 1.13.0. | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | Unless a regression is found in testing that RC, it shall be released as Swift 1.13.0 later this week | 21:02 |
| ttx | The current plan is that the next release of Swift shall be the Icehouse-synchronized release, with RCs expected early April | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic icehouse-3 progress | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-3 progress (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
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| ttx | After Feature Proposal Freeze last week we had a lot of cleanups going on | 21:03 |
| ttx | Now the current plans are all reasonable, but there is a lot left to do this week ! | 21:03 |
| ttx | Remember the feature code needs to land before EOB Tuesday March 4, after that it will need an exception | 21:04 |
| ttx | Review and land early, as always... winter is coming | 21:04 |
| ttx | One never knows how the gate will respond as we get closer and start piling up stuff on it | 21:04 |
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| ttx | but it's unlikely to get a lot faster | 21:04 |
| ttx | Questions / comments on that ? | 21:05 |
| lifeless | we're going to be requesting some exceptions | 21:05 |
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| lifeless | there are key heat pieces we need for proper upgrades | 21:05 |
| lifeless | that aren't landed yet | 21:05 |
| devananda | it is likely that Ironic will request an exception for the nova "ironic" driver as well | 21:06 |
| ttx | lifeless: I think stevebaker mentioned them to me | 21:06 |
| stevebaker | lifeless: what heat changes? | 21:06 |
| lifeless | without which TripleO (and Trove, and others) have issues | 21:06 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: graceful node changes | 21:06 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: and we need to solve the 'nova 500's -> everything stops' bug. | 21:06 |
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| lifeless | stevebaker: because honestly, APIs are not bulletproof. | 21:06 |
| stevebaker | ok | 21:07 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: and the idea that a user should have to intervene after a DB or network glitch, or keystone being overloaded for a few seconds... is really hard to understand | 21:07 |
| ttx | fwiw Heat and Horizon are naturally more liekly to get exceptions, as they need to catch up with the craziness upstream | 21:07 |
| stevebaker | lifeless: at least that is a bug, not a feature | 21:07 |
| ttx | stevebaker: are graceful node changes in your "high" list already ? | 21:08 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: sure, but SpamapS tells me its been getting pushback, so I'm expecting that we need yet more discussion around it. So... may be last minute when we finally get consensus | 21:08 |
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| stevebaker | ttx: I'm not sure what specific blueprints are needed for graceful node changes | 21:09 |
| stevebaker | I'll sort it out with SpamapS and lifeless | 21:09 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:09 |
| ttx | #topic Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:09 | |
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| ttx | stevebaker: while we are at it, you mentioned a potential conflict we may have to solve ? | 21:09 |
| stevebaker | blueprint instance-users needs this devstack change to allow its gating to pass https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76036/2 | 21:10 |
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| stevebaker | that is all | 21:10 |
| ttx | #info blueprint instance-users needs this devstack change to allow its gating to pass https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76036/2 | 21:10 |
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| ttx | dtroyer: can we get some express love on that one ? ^ | 21:10 |
| ttx | In other news, horizon/neutron-subnet-mode-support is blocked on neutron/ipv6-two-attributes | 21:11 |
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| dtroyer | ttx: +2 | 21:11 |
| ttx | dtroyer: thanks | 21:11 |
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| sdague | just +Aed | 21:11 |
| devananda | ttx: I'd like to raise a question about nova BP deprecate-baremetal-driver, which was untargeted and unapproved last week | 21:11 |
| ttx | markmcclain: what's the rough ETA for ipv6-two-attributes ? | 21:11 |
| ttx | stevebaker: magic! | 21:12 |
| sdague | stevebaker: so does that close issues with the heat-slow tests? | 21:12 |
| stevebaker | dtroyer, sdague, thanks | 21:12 |
| ttx | devananda: cool, just a sec | 21:12 |
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| stevebaker | sdague: I've seen this failure a few times, I need to look into it http://logs.openstack.org/36/76036/2/check/check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-heat-slow/1adf53f/console.html | 21:12 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: hopefully later this week | 21:13 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: both have gotten core review attention | 21:13 |
| stevebaker | sdague: some help in extracting pass/fail stats from logstash would be great | 21:13 |
| sdague | stevebaker: ok, getting that voting should definitely be high priority before the mad rush, otherwise I'm sure neutron and nova will break heat again during i3 | 21:13 |
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| stevebaker | sdague: we'll need to add the job to neutron too | 21:14 |
| sdague | yes | 21:14 |
| ttx | david-lyle: So.. if it lands then you shall get a FFE if needed to get it in | 21:14 |
| sdague | well, to all the jobs actually | 21:14 |
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| david-lyle | ttx: ack | 21:14 |
| ttx | david-lyle: if it doesn't land and is deferred... then I guess your change doesn't make sense anyway | 21:14 |
| david-lyle | ttx: correct, will push to Juno at that point | 21:15 |
| ttx | david-lyle: like I said above, horizon (and Heat) are naturally given more FFEs to catch up with the latest | 21:15 |
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| ttx | devananda: ok go | 21:15 |
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| devananda | ttx: so, that blueprint was untargeted and the relevant patch -2'd last week | 21:16 |
| devananda | ttx: and, as i undersatnd it, ironic's graduation potential is pinned on that work | 21:16 |
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| ttx | russellb: around? | 21:16 |
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| russellb | yes | 21:16 |
| russellb | driver is blocked on driver CI | 21:17 |
| devananda | ttx: also, the code hasn't gotten any meaningful feedback from nova reviewers yet, even though we started the work months ago | 21:17 |
| russellb | devananda: was WIP for most of that time right? | 21:17 |
| devananda | russellb: it was, yes, but WIP was removed ~ a month ago, I think | 21:17 |
| russellb | i3 is a dangerous time to rely on, heh | 21:17 |
| devananda | sure | 21:18 |
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| russellb | but the main blocker is CI | 21:18 |
| russellb | probably discouraged folks from looking | 21:18 |
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| dansmith | we're not merging drivers with no CI because we don't know if it works, | 21:18 |
| dansmith | so if we don't have CI, what's the point of looking at it? | 21:18 |
| ttx | hmm, what options do we have here (trying to wrap my head around this) | 21:18 |
| devananda | ttx: so I'd like to be clear on whether that BP and the related work, nova "ironic" driver and CI for it, is a blocker for Ironic itself, or not | 21:18 |
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| devananda | and if it is, what we can do to unblock it for Icehouse -- if anything | 21:19 |
| russellb | IMO, it is a blocker | 21:19 |
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| russellb | ttx: it's blocked unless we give ironic a pass on the driver CI requirement | 21:19 |
| russellb | ttx: and when i socialized that around nova, i found about zero support :-/ | 21:19 |
| devananda | I don't want to fork the user base any more than anyone else -- but my mind is currently split on this | 21:20 |
| ttx | devananda: how far away are we to have proper driver CI ? | 21:20 |
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| ttx | is it a "few more days" thing or a "never anyway" one ? | 21:20 |
| devananda | I would like to think we're close to getting devstack to set up the environment | 21:20 |
| * devananda fins the link | 21:20 | |
| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70348/ | 21:21 |
| devananda | it definitely needs more work -- it is breakign on some of the netron integration last I tried it | 21:21 |
| ttx | russellb: what happens to the current baremetal driver ? | 21:21 |
| russellb | it stays for now | 21:21 |
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| ttx | russellb: but it doesn't have proper Ci either, right ? | 21:21 |
| lifeless | can I ask | 21:21 |
| russellb | we're giving that a pass on the requirement to let ironic folks focus on ironic | 21:21 |
| lifeless | from a project perspective | 21:21 |
| russellb | since that's where baremetal interest went | 21:22 |
| lifeless | can TripleO switch to using Ironic before Ironic's driver is merged to Nova? | 21:22 |
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| russellb | lifeless: i don't know, can it? | 21:22 |
| ttx | lifeless: I guess you could use an out-of-tree driver | 21:22 |
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| lifeless | russellb: socially, culturally. Not technically. | 21:22 |
| lifeless | technical stuff is straight forward. | 21:23 |
| devananda | ttx: my concern with keeping baremetal in nova another cycle: IMO, that _will_ create a split. fokls are already pushing strongly to get additional features in ironic | 21:23 |
| russellb | i think supporting both would be acceptable | 21:23 |
| russellb | supporting only ironic seems kinda bad | 21:23 |
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| russellb | devananda: how about parity and migration path from nova-baremetal? any issues there? | 21:23 |
| lifeless | russellb: nova baremetal is extremely tricky do deploy properly. | 21:23 |
| russellb | just wondering if there's any other potential blockers | 21:23 |
| lifeless | russellb: scale issues; HA issue. | 21:23 |
| devananda | russellb: parity isn't an issue - we alraedy have more features than nova-bm | 21:23 |
| lifeless | russellb: I have zero interest in solving those problems in nova baremetal. | 21:24 |
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| russellb | not just more, but at least all of the same, yes? | 21:24 |
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| russellb | like, it's not missing some key feature nova-bm has, for example, even though it has all these other things | 21:24 |
| devananda | no | 21:24 |
| russellb | ok | 21:24 |
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| devananda | to be extra clear | 21:25 |
| russellb | i ask because, you know, neutron has more features too :-) | 21:25 |
| sdague | devananda: so that devstack patch looks like it just has a bad format in one bit and hit a race in one of the tests | 21:25 |
| devananda | there are two features in noav-bm that are not in tree fo rironic yet -- but patches are up and nearly ready to land | 21:25 |
| devananda | ie, this week | 21:25 |
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| devananda | *ie, i expect console and ephemeral support to land this week | 21:25 |
| dansmith | so then, not parity? :) | 21:25 |
| russellb | heh, but parity expected by feature freeze | 21:25 |
| devananda | right | 21:25 |
| ttx | russellb: we could also consider that nova ironic driver is not a prerequisite for graduation. that would be "integration", as an Horizon panel. | 21:25 |
| ttx | so post-graduation | 21:26 |
| russellb | ttx: well that's not what our graduation requirements say | 21:26 |
| devananda | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/incubation-integration-requirements#n69 | 21:26 |
| russellb | ttx: which were specifically written to avoid a bad situation from happening again | 21:26 |
| russellb | ttx: so i'm -1 on that | 21:26 |
| devananda | that section landed last week, which caught me a bit by surprise | 21:26 |
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| russellb | devananda: you saw it way before it landed, come on ... | 21:26 |
| devananda | russellb: not that long before ... | 21:27 |
| russellb | ok, but not last week :) | 21:27 |
| russellb | you commented jan 31 | 21:27 |
| devananda | ack | 21:27 |
| russellb | but really, we can't allow another situation like we have with neutron | 21:27 |
| dansmith | either way, approving another neutron (bomb) seems irresponsible | 21:27 |
| lifeless | agreed on avoiding the neutron issue | 21:27 |
| russellb | and that's what we're allowing if we graduate ironic before we can deprecate the old thing | 21:27 |
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| devananda | i agree -- i definitely do not want this to become a similar fiasco | 21:28 |
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| russellb | ok cool | 21:28 |
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| lifeless | russellb: so what are the specific requirements for deprecating nova-bm ? | 21:28 |
| russellb | lifeless: parity and a migration plan | 21:28 |
| lifeless | plan or implementation ? | 21:28 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: prototype :) | 21:28 |
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| devananda | russellb: which is why i'm trying to figure out the shortest path to avoid another cycle of everyone's effort being split between two projects :) | 21:28 |
| russellb | implementation, if there's code involved | 21:28 |
| russellb | could just be docs | 21:28 |
| lifeless | like, for migration, as a deployer I'd be entirely happy with use the API to copy settings from nova and push them to Ironic | 21:29 |
| russellb | i think keeping nova-bm is very little effort on our part | 21:29 |
| ttx | so I'm fine with granting a FFE to get the ironic driver in if the drievr CI is a bit late | 21:29 |
| russellb | sure, that's an option | 21:29 |
| russellb | if the driver is entirely self contained | 21:29 |
| dansmith | seems like a big FFE | 21:29 |
| russellb | review bandwidth is an issue | 21:29 |
| russellb | but theoretically possible | 21:29 |
| russellb | nova-core spread incredibly thin as it is | 21:30 |
| russellb | so need a heads up if we expect that to happen | 21:30 |
| ttx | BUT it won't work unless driver CI is up to snuff | 21:30 |
| russellb | so i can figure out who could review it | 21:30 |
| russellb | right | 21:30 |
| devananda | russellb: lifeless: what do you see as the cost / impact of ironic not graduating // the nova-ironic driver not landing in Icehouse? | 21:31 |
| ttx | ironic has been running after the clock all cycle | 21:31 |
| lifeless | So, TripleO /needs/ HA and scale | 21:31 |
| russellb | if it's not ready, it's just not ready | 21:31 |
| lifeless | Like I say, I have 0 interest in the work needed to do that with nova-bm [as to why - thats a separate conversation] | 21:31 |
| russellb | i'm not willing to break rules and create another bad situation | 21:32 |
| lifeless | russellb: sure, I'm not asking you to. Gimme a second here :) | 21:32 |
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| devananda | russellb: that's fair. but i am concerned that both paths risk creating (different) bad situations | 21:32 |
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| russellb | and it's also not fair to drivers who have busted their tails to get CI up | 21:32 |
| russellb | or the driver that may get removed next week over it | 21:32 |
| ttx | lifeless: could tripleO still use ironic (and an out-of-tree ironic driver) if it misses the Icehouse boat ? | 21:32 |
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| lifeless | So, if Ironic isn't fully integrated, TripleO will have to choose between wrapping nova-bm in external tools (corosync, pacemaker) and the fugly that ensues to get HA. | 21:33 |
| lifeless | OR | 21:33 |
| lifeless | Using Ironic with an out of tree Nova driver. | 21:33 |
| russellb | lifeless: assuming you're pinned to Icehouse | 21:33 |
| lifeless | I think we'd choose the out of tree driver today, as the lesser of evils. | 21:33 |
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| dansmith | lifeless: this requirement has been in place for a long time | 21:33 |
| russellb | lifeless: presumably you could use an in-tree driver if it landed early juno right? | 21:33 |
| dansmith | lifeless: like, a year | 21:33 |
| lifeless | russellb: RH are -very- much intending to ship a product :) | 21:33 |
| ttx | lifeless: since TripleO isn't bound to releases, you could use an in-tree ironic early in Juno | 21:33 |
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| russellb | lifeless: i'm aware, but i have my upstream hat on | 21:33 |
| lifeless | russellb: and other vendors are planning to ship product too | 21:34 |
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| devananda | dansmith: which requirement has ben in place for a year? | 21:34 |
| russellb | vendor product desires are the least of my worries | 21:34 |
| lifeless | russellb: right, and with my upstream hat on, I'm looking at the constituency of tripleo | 21:34 |
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| dansmith | devananda: the CI requirement | 21:34 |
| russellb | i'm certainly not going to bend rules because of someone wanting to ship a product | 21:34 |
| lifeless | russellb: which is all deployers | 21:34 |
| lifeless | russellb: again, not asking you to | 21:34 |
| russellb | ok, not sure why you brought it up then | 21:34 |
| lifeless | russellb: I'm answering deva's quesetion about consequences of Ironi failing to integrate/graduate | 21:34 |
| russellb | ok. | 21:34 |
| russellb | but anyway, you could use the in tree driver that lands early juno right? | 21:35 |
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| russellb | and drivers are easy to backport, if some downstream wants to | 21:35 |
| lifeless | Yes, and tell product folk to backport that to I | 21:35 |
| ttx | (since you're not bound to releases anyway) | 21:35 |
| russellb | yep | 21:35 |
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| ttx | that sounds like plan C | 21:35 |
| lifeless | so given that, I'm much more worried about Ironic API stability and driver fit-for-purpose than the integrated bit being set... *but* | 21:36 |
| devananda | dansmith: yes, but integration testing was always communicated to me as a post-graduation requirement. not a pre-graduation. but that's a bikeshed at this point. | 21:36 |
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| lifeless | the integrated bit being set is a great proxy for those things. | 21:36 |
| dansmith | devananda: yes (re: bikeshed) | 21:36 |
| ttx | so.. plan A is we get driver CI up to snuff, and the driver in nova (potentially using a FFE) | 21:36 |
| russellb | what was B, heh | 21:36 |
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| devananda | heh, yea, i think i missed B too ? | 21:36 |
| lifeless | run around screaming with hands in the air ? | 21:37 |
| devananda | :) | 21:37 |
| ttx | ok okok ok plan B | 21:37 |
| lifeless | devananda: so you said your merge got -2'd | 21:37 |
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| devananda | lifeless: yes, and the BP was un-approved and un-targeted | 21:37 |
| russellb | because of driver CI, yes | 21:37 |
| lifeless | devananda: which BP - CI? or driver? | 21:37 |
| devananda | russellb: i'm surprised that it isn't even approved now | 21:37 |
| ttx | plan C would be to miss the Juno integration boat and land the driver early in Juno. TripleO uses an out of tree driver in the interim between the two | 21:37 |
| devananda | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deprecate-baremetal-driver | 21:37 |
| devananda | lifeless: driver in noav | 21:37 |
| russellb | devananda: because everything has to be re-reviewed for juno | 21:37 |
| devananda | *nova | 21:37 |
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| russellb | just what was done for everything | 21:38 |
| devananda | russellb: ahhh gotcha. | 21:38 |
| ttx | process artifact | 21:38 |
| russellb | and i have to say, the FFE thing worries me | 21:38 |
| lifeless | so question | 21:38 |
| russellb | because i'm afraid it will be incredibly difficult to get folks to review it | 21:38 |
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| lifeless | how does the driver get CI without the driver being in tree? | 21:38 |
| russellb | and if they do, they'll feel immense pressure to just approve asap, instead of giving it the review it deserves | 21:38 |
| devananda | russellb: that's fair. a driver AND all the CI for it is not a small set of changes | 21:39 |
| ttx | and I won't approve it unless people are lined up to +2/APRV it | 21:39 |
| russellb | lifeless: that's a technical question, that's easy :-p | 21:39 |
| devananda | lifeless: it's possible, technically | 21:39 |
| lifeless | russellb: sure, but whats the answer ;) | 21:39 |
| devananda | something like this | 21:39 |
| ttx | tight schedule | 21:39 |
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| devananda | lifeless: land changes in devstack and tempest. add experimental check to nova pipeline. trigger it only on the patch sets that add the ironic driver | 21:39 |
| russellb | a custom devstack-gate job that installs the driver first | 21:39 |
| russellb | or whatever | 21:39 |
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| lifeless | I guess what I'm asking | 21:40 |
| lifeless | since we're all here | 21:40 |
| lifeless | is - are the devstack and tempest folk ok with how this will all fit together? | 21:40 |
| lifeless | or are we inventing as we go along? | 21:40 |
| russellb | on the devstack side, i think it's fine with the way it supports plugins | 21:40 |
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| devananda | there's some precedent - we did something like this already to land our Ironic tempest changes | 21:41 |
| dtroyer | it looks good to me once it passes gate | 21:41 |
| russellb | you can add whatever the heck you want to devstack by dropping in a couple new files | 21:41 |
| dansmith | how much of tempest runs against ironic under nova, by the way? | 21:41 |
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| devananda | dansmith: can you rephrase that? | 21:41 |
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| dansmith | devananda: how much of tempest runs against nova with ironic as the virt driver? | 21:41 |
| russellb | you could stage the driver in a stackforge repo while you work on CI, or just install it from the right review, i guess | 21:41 |
| devananda | dansmith: none today | 21:41 |
| dansmith | devananda: ? | 21:42 |
| russellb | you mean, because it's not set up | 21:42 |
| russellb | i think he means, how much of the test suite do you expect to pass | 21:42 |
| dansmith | ...yeah | 21:42 |
| devananda | dansmith: because the driver isn't in nova, and the devstack setup stuff is still being figured out | 21:42 |
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| lifeless | basic deploy/undeploy/stop/start | 21:42 |
| devananda | see patch I linked ~15 min ago | 21:42 |
| dansmith | devananda: so you don't know? | 21:42 |
| devananda | oh | 21:42 |
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| lifeless | nothing with virtual networking | 21:42 |
| lifeless | nothing ceilometer | 21:42 |
| lifeless | nothing trove | 21:42 |
| devananda | yea, i expect start/stop/SSH into node to all work | 21:42 |
| dansmith | if this isn't known at this point, I can't imagine that this is doable | 21:43 |
| dansmith | CI will not just go green, | 21:43 |
| dansmith | it will find tons of issues that have to be fixed, | 21:43 |
| dansmith | then integrated into the proposal, | 21:43 |
| dansmith | re-reviewed, etc | 21:43 |
| lifeless | dansmith: I think its known but not written down. | 21:43 |
| dansmith | lifeless: it doesn't sound like that | 21:43 |
| dansmith | "I expect $foo to work" | 21:44 |
| lifeless | dansmith: anything that depends on virtualised infrastructure is not offered by nova-bm, nor by Ironic | 21:44 |
| devananda | it's certainly conceivable that tempest hammering nova + the nova-ironic driver will uncover a ton of issues | 21:44 |
| devananda | but then | 21:44 |
| devananda | if you did that to nova-bm you'd have a lot of problems too, I bet ;) | 21:44 |
| dansmith | devananda: that's not really the point, as we're already giving a free pass for it | 21:44 |
| ewindisch | devananda: we've certainly found issues with the docker driver since running tempest against it. Surprisingly few so far, but issues nonetheless. | 21:44 |
| dansmith | devananda: if we weren't, nova-bm and ironic would be out | 21:44 |
| devananda | dansmith: sure | 21:45 |
| devananda | also - whether ironic will pass CI or not is a bikeshed | 21:45 |
| ttx | timeboxing this to 5 more minutes, we need to move on | 21:45 |
| dansmith | what? | 21:45 |
| dansmith | you can't just "have CI" and have it all fail and expect to get in... :) | 21:45 |
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| devananda | dansmith: my point is, if there's no review bandwidth // too much doubt from other parties // etc | 21:46 |
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| lifeless | dansmith: I think devananda means that that is a matter for the folk pushing the work. Whether it passes on first push of the review, or 30th, is orthogonal to the requirements. | 21:46 |
| devananda | dansmith: then we won't devote what time is left in icehouse to that requirement | 21:46 |
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| lifeless | or not :P | 21:46 |
| devananda | dansmith: and we'll focus on the other important things | 21:46 |
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| dansmith | lifeless: I'm saying that it plays into the "can we possibly review this before icehouse" equation | 21:47 |
| lifeless | dansmith: ah yes | 21:47 |
| dansmith | ttx: I'll shut up now | 21:47 |
| ttx | Summary is: this has run unfortunately late, plan B looks more unlikely as each hour passes, so we might need to consider plan C | 21:47 |
| sdague | right, and I agree, if there aren't preliminary tempest results now, I don't think it's doable | 21:47 |
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| devananda | ttx: thanks for giving this discussion some time | 21:47 |
| ttx | It's sad because it all probably just needs one more month | 21:47 |
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| ttx | but tripleO at least shouldn't be taht much affected if it can consume early Juno-landed stuff | 21:48 |
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| ttx | okn moving on | 21:48 |
| lifeless | tripleo will figure something out | 21:48 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:48 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov, kgriffs; around ? | 21:49 |
| ttx | It's a bit of the same topic actually | 21:49 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, o/ | 21:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | re savanna i3 - https://launchpad.net/savanna/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:50 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | everything is ok, all features and mostly all bug fixes under review | 21:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | icehouse - targeted client released | 21:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | bunch of API tests merged to tempest, several more on review | 21:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | the same with CLI tests | 21:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and I hope to be able to land some simple scenarios test | 21:50 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: you plan to follow feature freeze next week ? | 21:51 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, it sounds ok, we could probably not land some features patches that are under review | 21:51 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, but FFE will be ok for it | 21:52 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: ack | 21:52 |
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| ttx | cool | 21:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I have two more questions :) | 21:53 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: go for them | 21:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, is it ok to hack docs after i3 while we're incubated? | 21:53 |
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| ttx | sure! Doc (and test) fixes are not affected by feature freeze | 21:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, awesome | 21:53 |
| ttx | so you can also increase test coverage | 21:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, minus several FFEs :) | 21:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and where is the best place for start discussion about renaming? | 21:54 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | honestly, I'm scared to rename after FF | 21:54 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: we have the option to delay FF (icehouse-3) for savanna a bit too | 21:54 |
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| ttx | it's better if you can follow the regular one, but i agree that renaming would better happen BEFORE FF | 21:55 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I see two options - delay renaming to the time when Juno dev will be opened vs. delay FF | 21:55 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: I think it's better if the icehouse version carries the future name | 21:56 |
| SergeyLukjanov | for the first look #1 looks more consistent - to have savanna i1, i2, it and I release | 21:56 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: but the message would be confusing. Savanna will be integrated in Juno under the name X ? | 21:57 |
| ttx | i1, i2 i3 are just intermediary milestones | 21:57 |
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| ttx | they don't matter that much | 21:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | heh | 21:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:57 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: other questions ? | 21:58 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I'm thinking about the ETA for renaming | 21:58 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: i would prepare a change, just to be ready | 21:58 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: and harass lauren to get early answers | 21:58 |
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| ttx | :) | 21:58 |
| SergeyLukjanov | :) | 21:59 |
| ttx | PSA: we shall open the design summit session suggestion site on Friday or Monday | 21:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we should receive results of names validation at the end of this week + 1w to choose the new name + 1w to rename | 21:59 |
| ttx | #info Design summit session suggestion site shall open on Friday or Monday | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that seems early | 21:59 |
| ttx | dhellman_: we usually do it around FF | 21:59 |
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| ttx | ~ 2 months before summit | 22:00 |
| markmcclain | can we wait until Thursday? | 22:00 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok | 22:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, so, looks like we theoretically able to do renaming before the first rc1 | 22:00 |
| ttx | markmcclain: icehouse-3 day ? | 22:00 |
| markmcclain | yes | 22:00 |
| ttx | markmcclain: to reduce the distraction ? | 22:00 |
| dhellmann | markmcclain: +1 | 22:01 |
| markmcclain | yeah… I'd be ok with after Thursday too | 22:01 |
| ttx | I guess I could procrastinate and make that happen | 22:01 |
| ttx | on those good words... | 22:01 |
| dhellmann | ttx: don't push yourself too hard | 22:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 22:01:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-25-21.01.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-25-21.01.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-25-21.01.log.html | 22:01 |
| ttx | thanks everyone | 22:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, thanks | 22:01 |
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