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| Sukhdev | Good Morning | 14:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 15:01:11 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:01 | |
| johnthetubaguy | Hi everyone | 15:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:01 |
| matel | hi | 15:01 |
| BobBall | hi | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | who is around for today's meeting? | 15:01 |
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| thouveng | hi | 15:01 |
| matel | I'm here | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | so lets get cracking | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/XenAPI | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #topic Blueprints | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:02 | |
| johnthetubaguy | Icehouse-1 is closing, and Icehouse-2 is starting | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyone got any worries or plans with that? | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | any blueprints we need to get in during Icehouse-2? | 15:03 |
| BobBall | nope - but there is a BP that thouveng will want to talk about for I-2 | 15:03 |
| pvo | o/ | 15:03 |
| BobBall | first - hi thouveng ! | 15:03 |
| thouveng | hello everybody | 15:03 |
| thouveng | hi BobBall | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | thouveng: hello! feel free to discuss your blueprint, and give a quick intro | 15:03 |
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| thouveng | now? | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure | 15:03 |
| thouveng | ok | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Just as a brief intro - thouveng is from bull.net who are interested in PCI pass through and potentially vGPU in future | 15:03 |
| thouveng | So first here is the link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/pci-passthrough-xenapi | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, cool | 15:04 |
| thouveng | The goal of this bp is to add support for pci passthrough into xenapi driver | 15:04 |
| thouveng | I see two tasks. First add the support for updating the status of the compute host | 15:05 |
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| thouveng | and second add the mechanism to attach a pci device to a VM when booting. | 15:05 |
| BobBall | What do you mean by status of the host? The PCI devices that it has available? | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good, I have added them as work items in the blueprint | 15:06 |
| thouveng | The pci devices that are available for the pci passthrough | 15:06 |
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| BobBall | So what's the procses for getting this prioritised / cores assigned johnthetubaguy ? | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | does the current structure in Nova look OK for wiring up for to XenAPI? | 15:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: just target it to a milestone, and it should get reviewed, I am kinda doing that as we type | 15:07 |
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| thouveng | johnthetubaguy: Yes it seems to have all needed wires | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, I will add a note in the blueprint saying we expect no new configuration settings, does that seem fair? | 15:08 |
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| thouveng | Yes. For the configuration I have some doubts but I think that I only need to catch pci devices that are passed on the dom0 command line when booting the device. | 15:09 |
| thouveng | So I think that we don't need extra configuration. | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | thouveng: how are you going to wire up with xenapi, does it need a plugin? | 15:09 |
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| thouveng | johnthetubaguy: Yes exactly. | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | thouveng: that sounds right to me, the filtering and grouping that is getting added in nova can be wired up once it droppes | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | thouveng: cool, it would be good to get these details in the blueprint, helps set expectations, and review the direction the implementation will take. | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | let me just add that in | 15:10 |
| thouveng | I should be able to add the function into an existing plugin. So I just need to upgrade the plugin version. | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: does this really need a plugin, are we missing some XenAPI functions for this stuff? | 15:11 |
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| BobBall | The issue is we need to list the PCI devices on the host | 15:11 |
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| BobBall | of course anything on the host can be exposed through XAPI - but XAPI doesn't do that ATM | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, I guess that was it, thats OK | 15:12 |
| BobBall | so any use of a plugin could be considered "missing functionality" from XAPI | 15:12 |
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| BobBall | In particular thouveng is going to look at the boot command line and/or the output of lspci -Dv to see which modules are loaded for the devices | 15:12 |
| BobBall | To me that feels too specific to be exposed through XAPI | 15:13 |
| BobBall | and that's what plugins are for | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, probably | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good | 15:13 |
| BobBall | thouveng isn't proposing a plugin that _modifies_ state from dom0 - just reads it | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | … final question | 15:13 |
| BobBall | all the modification can be done through XAPI | 15:13 |
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| thouveng | agree | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: cool, thats what I remember from looking that this, I have added it to the blueprint | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | so that question | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | do you think the code will be ready during Icehouse-2? | 15:14 |
| thouveng | Sorry I don't remember the date for I2? | 15:14 |
| BobBall | 23rd Jan | 15:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | year, so needs to be up for review early Jan | 15:15 |
| BobBall | or 23th Jan if you want to be pedantic and copy the schedule | 15:15 |
| BobBall | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | we can always move things if we have too, but sooner is better | 15:15 |
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| leif | Hey quick question, since this is piggy-backing libvirt support, does libvirt handle hot-plugging? | 15:16 |
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| thouveng | The first part about updating host status will be available. | 15:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, well thats enough to say I-2 for now, and see how it goes | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | leif: I kinda assume this is attach at boot, not hot-plug right now, but thouveng? | 15:16 |
| thouveng | I hope that the part that attaches the pci device will be ready too but I didn't did that much on that part. | 15:16 |
| BobBall | think so leif - but I might be missing something from the code. don't know to be honest. | 15:16 |
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| thouveng | johnthetubaguy: attach at boot yes. No hotplug. | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think its just at boot via the flavour right now, so thats all cool | 15:17 |
| thouveng | johnthetubaguy: exactly | 15:17 |
| leif | Yeah, no problem with level. Was asking since hotplug support on libvirt what do we return back? | 15:17 |
| leif | "level" - only support at boot. | 15:18 |
| BobBall | no idea leif | 15:18 |
| leif | Wanted to know if this is an immediate error or post launch error. | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, should just be extra wiring up, its the reporting status I have more worries about | 15:18 |
| leif | no problem, just asking at this poitn. | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | immediate error? | 15:18 |
| BobBall | Actually looking at the code - I might be mistaken | 15:19 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39891/40/nova/virt/libvirt/driver.py | 15:19 |
| BobBall | at least in that changeset | 15:19 |
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| BobBall | the "hotpluging" only happens during VM lifecycle operations (e.g. reboot, suspend, snapshot) | 15:19 |
| BobBall | so might just be reqs from libvirt for a reboot to work etc | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, there is no "attach PCI device" api call I know about | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | but there could be I supose | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, lets not get sidetracked | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | blueprint approved | 15:20 |
| leif | agreed. :-) | 15:20 |
| BobBall | w00t. So - john - how do we get another core signed up? | 15:20 |
| thouveng | :) | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: you ask them, or you get me to ask them | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | but to be honest, just see who is interested and adds there name in the first instance | 15:21 |
| BobBall | heh :) I thought this was now a managed process | 15:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, its crowd sourced | 15:21 |
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| BobBall | Ah - if it's low priority then that's one thing... I assumed this would be a medium blueprint so needed two cores to sign up before approval or something | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | I see blueprint I want, so I sign up to do them | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | or if I see xenapi ones, I sign up | 15:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its low because there are not two cores signed up | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | it can be promoted if another core signs up | 15:22 |
| BobBall | ok | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | its nice and loose | 15:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyways | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | asesome stuff, I remember talking about this in San Diego, and never getting time to do it :D | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | lets move on.. | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Docs | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:23 | |
| johnthetubaguy | anyone got any doc things? | 15:23 |
| BobBall | no doc fun this week | 15:24 |
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| BobBall | john? | 15:26 |
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| matel | oh | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, sorry | 15:26 |
| matel | network issues? | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Bugs & QA | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs & QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:27 | |
| johnthetubaguy | how is the tempest work going | 15:27 |
| * johnthetubaguy looks at matel | 15:27 | |
| BobBall | matel first? | 15:27 |
| matel | Okay. | 15:27 |
| matel | So I am eorking on scripts to create a cloud- ready xenserver | 15:27 |
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| matel | #link https://github.com/citrix-openstack/xenapi-in-the-cloud | 15:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | is that "working" now? | 15:28 |
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| matel | it's working, but I am speeding it up - so that we have an image, that could just be launched. | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | … and have we done a tempest run in that cloud based XenServer yet? | 15:29 |
| BobBall | Thanks to antonym - tap devices were fixed :) | 15:29 |
| matel | Yes, we did smoke. | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | how "fast" was smoke? | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | and did it work? | 15:29 |
| matel | Ran 223 tests in 624.476s | 15:29 |
| matel | tempest.scenario.test_volume_boot_pattern.TestVolumeBootPattern.test_volume_boot_pattern[compute,image,volume] 164.053 | 15:29 |
| matel | tempest.scenario.test_snapshot_pattern.TestSnapshotPattern.test_snapshot_pattern[compute,image,network] 98.140 | 15:29 |
| matel | tempest.scenario.test_minimum_basic.TestMinimumBasicScenario.test_minimum_basic_scenario[compute,image,network,volume] 91.124 | 15:29 |
| matel | tempest.api.compute.servers.test_server_rescue.ServerRescueTestJSON.test_rescue_unrescue_instance[gate,smoke] 38.828 | 15:29 |
| matel | tempest.scenario.test_server_basic_ops.TestServerBasicOps.test_server_basicops[compute,network] 36.813 | 15:30 |
| matel | tempest.thirdparty.boto.test_ec2_volumes.EC2VolumesTest.test_create_volume_from_snapshot[gate,smoke] 33.709 | 15:30 |
| matel | tempest.api.compute.v3.servers.test_server_actions.ServerActionsV3TestXML.test_rebuild_server[gate,smoke] 31.742 | 15:30 |
| matel | tempest.api.compute.servers.test_server_rescue.ServerRescueTestXML.test_rescue_unrescue_instance[gate,smoke] 23.964 | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, OK, that could be worse | 15:30 |
| matel | tempest.scenario.test_dashboard_basic_ops.TestDashboardBasicOps.test_basic_scenario[dashboard] 23.038 | 15:30 |
| matel | tempest.api.compute.v3.servers.test_server_actions.ServerActionsV3TestJSON.test_rebuild_server[gate,smoke] 18.980 | 15:30 |
| matel | Some really slow ones. | 15:30 |
| matel | So that's smoke. | 15:30 |
| matel | No full runs yet | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any errors with smoke? | 15:30 |
| matel | Bob has fixes to make the test runs more stable. | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess not? | 15:30 |
| matel | They were a bit unstable. | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, OK | 15:30 |
| matel | I'll pass it to Bob. | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | so can we wire this up into Zuul now? | 15:31 |
| matel | As he found the reason. | 15:31 |
| BobBall | I've found some really fun errors in full tempest... | 15:31 |
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| matel | I would need someone, who would help wire it up to that black box. | 15:31 |
| BobBall | Ranging from lack of memory leading to compute memory fragmentation leading to VBD plug failures which then clearly fails the tempest test | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, so have you seen the docs and other changes where people added tests? I can help with that | 15:31 |
| matel | I would say, we are getting closer to wire it up, but it's measured in weeks... | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | why weeks? | 15:32 |
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| matel | Because there is work to be done, and work needs time. | 15:32 |
| BobBall | Lots of unknowns still in exactly how to integrate with the existing zuul stuff | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | agreed, but digging into that, can I help make that go faster, or is it not that kind of work? | 15:33 |
| BobBall | like exactly where the split between creating a VM and putting it in the nodepool should be etc | 15:33 |
| matel | Sure, you can make it faster. | 15:33 |
| matel | I would need to have a description of the zuul entry points. | 15:33 |
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| matel | AFAIK, it's "PREPARE IMAGE" and "RUN DEVSTACK" | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | Yup, OK, so I will have a chat with people, but I can come and sit next you tomorrow and help move it forward? | 15:33 |
| matel | And we would need to find out how to "customise" the localrc - so that it knows about XenServer. | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yup, that all makes sense | 15:34 |
| matel | Yes, so I am working on a script, that is producing an image. | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | that sounds good | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am happy to look into Zuul bits if that helps | 15:34 |
| matel | which is really the first step - I am close (this week) | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, we are making good progress | 15:34 |
| matel | Okay, stay in touch | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | lets move on | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | http://ci.openstack.org/ | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | BTW | 15:35 |
| BobBall | those docs are rubbish | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | prehaps | 15:35 |
| BobBall | we were looking at the yesterday :) | 15:35 |
| matel | Yes, I am so upset about the lack of documentation. | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, any more on QA | 15:35 |
| BobBall | I know more of the overview than is in the docs just from playing | 15:35 |
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| BobBall | Well we can talk about my tempest fun | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | you got patches and bugs up? | 15:35 |
| matel | So if john, you could put together a nice diagram, and put it on the docs page, that would help. | 15:36 |
| BobBall | As I said - if you give domU too little memory, all sorts of things can go wrong | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | matel: my plan is to read the code | 15:36 |
| BobBall | I've got a patch up for devstack - but you'll need to be aware of it in production | 15:36 |
| matel | Sure, and create a diagram as well. | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: yes, well, we try not to run out of memory I guess | 15:36 |
| BobBall | if your compute VM is swapping then you might be hitting an issue where VBD plug fails | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | we don't run rabbit in our compute domUs, oddly | 15:36 |
| BobBall | it's not running out of memory that's the problem - it's memory fragmentation that prevents you from allocating a 128k block - which is quite large in memory terms | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its a good catch though | 15:37 |
| BobBall | so if you have a long-running and busy compute VM with only just enough memory, you _will_ hit this sooner or later | 15:37 |
| BobBall | I suspect all three of those will apply at Rackspace since I know you squeeze compute's memory to get more VMs on a box | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, not sure about the headroom though, needs a good luck | 15:38 |
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| johnthetubaguy | whats the fix? | 15:38 |
| BobBall | more memory | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol, OK | 15:38 |
| BobBall | or reboot compute to stop fragmentation | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats possible | 15:38 |
| BobBall | but who knows how often you have to reboot | 15:38 |
| BobBall | parallel tempest was hitting it within 60 minutes | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | never under normal operation, but hey | 15:38 |
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| BobBall | Anyway - next fun - we already synchronize on VBD.plug, but we have to synchronise on VBD.unplug too (both at the same time) otherwise we get the same random racy failures | 15:39 |
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| BobBall | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/59856/ | 15:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | Ah, yes, I did ask about that at the time, I guessed we might need that | 15:39 |
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| BobBall | and there are some weird things I'm looking at ATM but I don't have a solution for | 15:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, any more? | 15:40 |
| BobBall | timeouts with volumes | 15:40 |
| BobBall | the really annoying thing is that full tempest does pass | 15:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, is that the old kernel issue with iSCSI on the same box again? | 15:40 |
| BobBall | so it's timeouts / races that we're fighting against | 15:40 |
| BobBall | no | 15:41 |
| BobBall | Mate fixed that | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | but it could be related? | 15:41 |
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| BobBall | I doubt it at this point | 15:41 |
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| johnthetubaguy | you get deadlocks in tap disk, is that related? | 15:41 |
| BobBall | the iscsi issue is definitely mitigated | 15:41 |
| BobBall | there may be other deadlocks - but not that one | 15:41 |
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| BobBall | that one is mitigated by adding a new memcopy in the process | 15:42 |
| BobBall | if we're still seeing deadlocks then it's a different issue | 15:42 |
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| matel | Let me dig up the change... | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, no worries | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | just checking the things that came to mind | 15:42 |
| BobBall | (the memcopy isn't actually real - it's about changing the IO mode used by the SR) | 15:42 |
| matel | #link https://github.com/citrix-openstack/qa/blob/master/install-devstack-xen.sh#L314 | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, making progress though, which is good to see | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, in other news... | 15:43 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I plan to use all your good work, and copy and paste it to run cloud cafe tests, assuming we keep using those | 15:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | but thats just for context | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | so... | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:44 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 15:44 |
| BobBall | can't for the life of me think what it was | 15:45 |
| BobBall | but I was going to say something | 15:45 |
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| matel | I'm okay, I just need zuul- capable people. | 15:46 |
| matel | to talk to. | 15:46 |
| BobBall | Just ask on -infra | 15:46 |
| BobBall | they usually answer | 15:46 |
| matel | Oh, yes. | 15:46 |
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| BobBall | and they only charge £5 per question | 15:46 |
| BobBall | quite reasonable | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, so I am happy to take on the zuul integration with you if that helps? | 15:46 |
| matel | Let's find entry points, that's good enough. | 15:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | while you make the stand-a-lone script stable, and Bob works on getting tempest running stabley | 15:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | yup, I am happy to work on that | 15:47 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy: other question - while we're here - guy in #openstack-dev asking a question I don't know the answer to... | 15:47 |
| matel | okay, sounds like a plan. | 15:47 |
| BobBall | hi any idea why two rules are used instead of using single rule line number 137,147 https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/plugins/xenserver/networking/etc/xensource/scripts/ovs_configure_vif_flows.py | 15:48 |
| BobBall | thought you might know :) | 15:48 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nope sorry, I am the wrong guy to ask about that stuff | 15:48 |
| BobBall | I guessed it was different implementations of ARP - some using the host IP and others using 0.0.0.0 as the response | 15:48 |
| BobBall | ah well | 15:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, its deep in the niggles of network land, I know the basics not the details there :( | 15:49 |
| BobBall | indeed | 15:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, are we all done? | 15:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | a good meeting today I feel, thank you all for your hard work! | 15:49 |
| BobBall | I know a fair bit, particularly around that tenant isolation, but that one had me stumped... | 15:49 |
| BobBall | heh - you're welcome? | 15:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | ...I was meeting more generally, not the hard work of the meeting | 15:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways | 15:50 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any more questions? | 15:50 |
| BobBall | yeah | 15:51 |
| BobBall | what's the deal with this furby boom thing? I hear it's a popular xmas toy but I just don't get it | 15:51 |
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| BobBall | maybe I'm too old... | 15:51 |
| BobBall | hmmm - do you think that question is off-topic? | 15:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | maybe | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | I never get these crazes | 15:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | they always seem to pass me by | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | but maybe I am just tight | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways... | 15:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:52 | |
| BobBall | I think I'm going to be glad that furby boom passes me by... | 15:52 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 4 15:52:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-12-04-15.01.html | 15:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-12-04-15.01.txt | 15:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-12-04-15.01.log.html | 15:52 |
| leif | BobBall: I could be wrong about this, but we had an issue where VM to VM arps were not working when in the same HV. | 15:52 |
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| BobBall | I think that's why you need one of them (not sure which one) - but I didn't know why we needed two! | 15:53 |
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| leif | BobBall: My understanding is that the OVS was not replicating the ARP correctly back to other VMs in the Same VM. | 15:54 |
| BobBall | ohhhhhhh | 15:54 |
| BobBall | perfect! | 15:54 |
| BobBall | that makes sense | 15:54 |
| leif | second "VM" -> HV. | 15:54 |
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| BobBall | idd | 15:54 |
| BobBall | thanks leif | 15:54 |
| leif | BobBall: I'm going on being "in the room" when an issue was worked, but that looks like the same issue. | 15:54 |
| leif | BobBall: no problem. They should put something in the comment to be more explicit. | 15:55 |
| BobBall | It sounds highly plausible. Therefore I'm going to use proof by assertion that it's correct. | 15:55 |
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| BobBall | thanks. | 15:56 |
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| BobBall | leif: one more q coming your way in pm | 15:56 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 16:01:11 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:01 |
| eharney | hi | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | hey hooooooooooooooo | 16:01 |
| glenng | Greetings | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | eharney: morning sir | 16:01 |
| kmartin | hello all | 16:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
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| caitlin56 | hi | 16:01 |
| sgordon | \o/ | 16:01 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:01 |
| aguzikova | hi | 16:01 |
| zhiyan | hi all | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | morning all. | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | nice... prompt attendance this morning | 16:01 |
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| joel-coffman | cheers | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: hola | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:02 |
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| DuncanT | hey | 16:02 |
| * jgriffith is actuallyon time | 16:02 | |
| winston-d | o/ | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | yoooo... DuncanT | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | alright... there's winston-d let's roll | 16:02 |
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| jungleboyj | Hey hey, the gang's all here. Except avishay. :-( | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | #topic multi-attach | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multi-attach (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:03 | |
| kmartin | and hemna :( | 16:03 |
| sgordon | ok | 16:03 |
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| sgordon | so i discussed this with zhiyan last week and attempted to frame a wiki page summarizing all the previous discussions on this | 16:03 |
| kmartin | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/blueprints/multi-attach-volume | 16:03 |
| sgordon | and in particular highlighting outstanding issues/questions: | 16:03 |
| sgordon | https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Cinder/blueprints/multi-attach-volume#Unresolved_Issues.2FQuestions | 16:03 |
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| avishay | Hi all | 16:04 |
| sgordon | so in particular the two main ones zhiyan highlighted were finalizing the use of the volume and attachment status fields | 16:04 |
| zhiyan | avishay: hi | 16:04 |
| sgordon | and working out how to implement multi-attach as an extension to the core attachment functionality | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | that was fast avishay :-) | 16:04 |
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| avishay | Jungleboyj on my phone :-P | 16:05 |
| sgordon | so per the wiki, volume attachment would be attached/detached and attachment status would be in-use / attaching / detaching | 16:06 |
| sgordon | woops | 16:06 |
| DuncanT | I'd also add 'Are there any data consistency requirements / expectations at all for multi-attach?' to the list of unresolved questions | 16:06 |
| sgordon | DuncanT, right - so i think the expectation is that it's an explicit choice to share a volume | 16:06 |
| sgordon | in the shared-volume blueprint it was suggested a volume must be explicitly marked "shareable" | 16:06 |
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| sgordon | and then it's expected that the consistency requirements are handled at the application / guest level | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: I agree with that | 16:07 |
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| bswartz | +1 | 16:07 |
| sgordon | what you of course want to avoid is any situation where someone could accidentally multi-attach | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: so personally this wiki is helpful IMO | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | sgordon: I get that, but I mean, once a volume is marked as shared and attached shared, at the block level, what are the consistency expectations of the user? Same as an iSCSI mount? Less that that? Undefined? | 16:07 |
| avishay | Sounds reasonable | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: not sure I'm following you on that? | 16:08 |
| sgordon | DuncanT, talking to the specific cluster app i looked at there is more that could be built on multi-attach to support clustered apps | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: "consistency expectations of the user" | 16:08 |
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| sgordon | DuncanT, in particular yes improving the chain so that iSCSI reservations could be used | 16:08 |
| sgordon | (for example) | 16:08 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: If I have it attached to vms A and B, and I do a write on B and a read on A of the same sectors, what should the result be under what circumstances? | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: that's what I thought you might be getting at :) | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I've always said consumer beware or you're screwed | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | maybe that's not sufficient | 16:09 |
| sgordon | jgriffith, +1 | 16:09 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'm fine with saying 'Same as iSCSI LVM', but I'd like it said | 16:09 |
| caitlin56 | DuncanT: that's a dangerous road to go down unless you stick with absolutely minimal guarantess. Before long the volume is a posix file. | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | but I don't want Cinder to have any responsibility above the block device layer | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | ie FS, consistency etc | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | if that means it's too "icky" to do multiple R/W so be it | 16:10 |
| DuncanT | I'm fine with minimal guarantees, I'd just like it stated early what they are | 16:10 |
| avishay | Syncjronization must be in the guests | 16:10 |
| * jungleboyj just assumed multi-attach was ReadOnly. | 16:10 | |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: that's fair | 16:10 |
| caitlin56 | Stating what you cannot rely upon is a good idea. | 16:10 |
| kmartin | DuncanT: jgriffith I'm pretty sure the Hypervisor help in this area | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | jungleboyj: we've talked about that approach | 16:11 |
| avishay | Kmartin. How so? | 16:11 |
| caitlin56 | Readonly is certainly simpler than shared write. | 16:11 |
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| sneelakantan | sgordon: what's the definition of a "read-only" attachment? Does that mean instance is not allowed to write anything to the volume, or that the written data is not persisted? | 16:11 |
| sgordon | caitlin56, indeed - i was also wondering how this would impact snapshotting (for example) | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | It is cool if shared write can work, but sounds scary. | 16:11 |
| kmartin | avishay: This is a common use case for clusters in ESX land | 16:11 |
| sgordon | sneelakantan, the former - but i believe that it has to be enforced by nova | 16:11 |
| DuncanT | Filesystems that can use multi-attach, like GFS, have certain requirements of the underlying storage. If you aren't a simple iSCSI mount, those requirements become important | 16:11 |
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| sgordon | sneelakantan, cinder simply stores whether the attachment is r/o or r/w | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: yeah, but they have the advantage of using their FS and controlling everything | 16:12 |
| caitlin56 | sgordon: that depends on who does the snapshot. ZFS won't have any problem. | 16:12 |
| avishay | Kmartin ok | 16:12 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: correct | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | Anyway.... DuncanT makes a good point | 16:12 |
| sgordon | caitlin56, right - so i think if we just say it's driver specific that's ok - just need to list which ones do/dont support it | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | we DEF need to CAREFULLY and document the risks | 16:13 |
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| sgordon | jgriffith, yes and that's part of my intent with the wiki as well | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | and make sure we have an excellent ref use case doc | 16:13 |
| sgordon | i wanted to more explicitly document the design for this | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: yeah... very cool | 16:13 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: agreed. ANd that warning should include "if you don't like this uncertainty, use a file system." | 16:13 |
| sgordon | as i know it's been discussed a lot over at least the last 12 months | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: thanks for that | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: :) | 16:13 |
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| avishay | A EULA should pop up when you try and make you agree to terms :-) | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | An example documented use-case would be really useful | 16:14 |
| bswartz | avishay: lol | 16:14 |
| sgordon | DuncanT, ok - i think i have the details for that | 16:14 |
| sgordon | DuncanT, will likely mean some other blueprints as well, probably on nova :) | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: +1 | 16:14 |
| avishay | Duncan +1 | 16:14 |
| kmartin | yes, thanks sgordon for pullind this together | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: TBH that's something I think we could improve on ALOT overall | 16:14 |
| caitlin56 | I think we should state that generally volumes have a single writer. We're allowing you to do multiple, but it is up to you to get them to coordinate as though they were a single writer. | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Definitely. | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: 'coordinate' has no meaning without a /lot/ more detail | 16:15 |
| sgordon | yeah | 16:15 |
| sgordon | so in the example i am looking at traditionally it would use SCSI reservations | 16:15 |
| sgordon | but to support that we also need virtio-iscsi support in nova, and NPIV support | 16:16 |
| sgordon | not just multi-attach | 16:16 |
| caitlin56 | Duncant: what 'coordiation' is required is dependent on your specific application. | 16:16 |
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| sgordon | i'd be interested in the way other solutions co-ordinate this as well though | 16:16 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: It is also totally and utterly dependant on the facilities provided by the block device | 16:16 |
| kmartin | sgordon: we'll need Fibre Channel as well | 16:16 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: When flushes and barriers happen and such | 16:16 |
| sgordon | kmartin, +1 | 16:16 |
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| kmartin | sgordon: we can help in the FC area | 16:17 |
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| caitlin56 | DuncanT: yes, but we don't tell people how to write multi-processor safe programs. We just tell them it is their problem. | 16:17 |
| sgordon | ok - so i think that gives me plenty to follow up on in terms of detail | 16:17 |
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| sgordon | to take to IRC/list | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: thanks for putting this together | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: maybe we'll actually move forward on it in I :) | 16:18 |
| sgordon | any comments on how this would be implemented as an extension vs the core attachment functionality? | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: Actually we also have very clear memory barrier instructions with clearly understood semantics, *then* tell people it is there problem | 16:18 |
| kmartin | sgordon: jgriffith +1 | 16:18 |
| sgordon | zhiyan probably has a better understanding of I as to what that means | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | it seems we're all finally starting to kind of agree on doing it | 16:18 |
| avishay | Sgordon thanks! | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | or at least giving up fighting about it :) | 16:18 |
| sgordon | well i think what's important, and what i want to do | 16:18 |
| sgordon | is continue driving the discussion forward and documenting any decisions | 16:18 |
| winston-d | sgordon: virtio-scsi or virtio-iscsi? | 16:18 |
| sgordon | it will help not just with implementation but user docs later as well | 16:19 |
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| caitlin56 | sgordon: I am at a loss as to how to do multi-attach while keeping the ucrrent volume status. | 16:19 |
| sgordon | (i come from a docs background) | 16:19 |
| * DuncanT will be happy to have a demo workload that is expected to work at the point we call ourselves 'done'... that will clear up most of my issues | 16:19 | |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: See the wiki page for ideas | 16:19 |
| kmartin | should we talk about the second issue on multi-attach | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: or create a whole bunch of new ones :) | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: probably | 16:19 |
| kmartin | extension vs. core | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Almost certainly both ;-) | 16:20 |
| sgordon | kmartin, +1 | 16:20 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: you know we talked this on summit, but there's no conclusion. iirc team like make multi-attach as an extension in cinder but core | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: :( | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: yes this get's ugly IMO | 16:21 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: but currently i don't think cinder is ready to support a separated extension structure. | 16:21 |
| sgordon | yes, so to me this is probably the more pressing issue as a blocker | 16:21 |
| sgordon | we can work through use cases, detail etc. as a team | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | If we go with the "no extension modifies tables" it makes this (and other) extensions pretty much not worth the trouble | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | thingee: you were working on a proposal for something outside of the DB for persistent data? | 16:22 |
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| sgordon | winston-d, virtio-scsi sorry | 16:22 |
| avishay | admin_metadata? | 16:22 |
| thingee | jgriffith: yes | 16:22 |
| thingee | I do apologize but I didn't find time last week to write something up | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: no worries | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | thingee: my question is based on the work you've done.... | 16:23 |
| zhiyan | avishay: yes, iiuc, it's admin_metadata .. but is it? | 16:23 |
| thingee | I would like new extensions to assume they have their own table though | 16:23 |
| winston-d | thingee: it was thanks giving, you were not supposed to work. :) | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | thingee: is it worth the extra effort rather than creating a table? :) | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | thingee: Oh? | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | thingee: now I'm confused | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | I'm not sure about shoving everything under the sun in to admin_meta | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | that could get very ugly and ineffecient I think | 16:24 |
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| zhiyan | jgriffith: +1 | 16:24 |
| thingee | I mentioned in the last summit that we could think of extensions as a package. Installing it would introduce new tables, modifications to existing workflows on the api and manager, new rest api extension, etc | 16:24 |
| caitlin56 | Tracking the state of multiple dynamic attachments doesn' t sound like "admin" metadata to me. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ohhh... sorry I think I missed that part | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: that kinda solves the buld of the issues here IMO | 16:25 |
| thingee | jgriffith: Don't think so. We had disagreements about this | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: well.. I think I might have "misunderstood" what you were saying | 16:25 |
| thingee | or at least I was told this wasn't worth time to spend on | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: The term 'admin' here just means 'not seen directly by the user' and is a historical oddity | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | #topic extensions and the DB | 16:26 |
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| avishay | Need to list pros and cons but could be cool | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Since I may have snarled this conversation at the summit without knowing what was being proposed | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | let's see if we can figure something out | 16:26 |
| thingee | I'd like to write up a proposal and then have that be changed over to the dev docs to assist new people. | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | IUC the proposal is that only CORE functionality modifies existing DB tables? | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | Limiting extentions to their own table(s) seems like a totally reasonable compromise to me | 16:27 |
| kmartin | should with give thingee a little time to write up his proposal and then talk about it | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I agree... somehow I missed that part of the disucssion in HK | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | or didn't understand it... | 16:27 |
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| * jgriffith feels stupid | 16:27 | |
| thingee | jgriffith: right, extensions should avoid modifying the existing table. The problem with that though is you end up with a lot of joins | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I don't think that *was* the discussion in HK | 16:27 |
| thingee | DuncanT, jgriffith: oh it was. the last informal session | 16:28 |
| thingee | I mentioned a new table, but people brought up the issue of joins | 16:28 |
| avishay | Yep | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I believe you :) | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: The joins problem was what I pointed out, then we got very circular and decided to give Thingee time to solve it all ;-) | 16:28 |
| glenng | *remembers that* | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: that sounds like us ;) | 16:28 |
| thingee | whew | 16:28 |
| avishay | Haha | 16:29 |
| * thingee was not talking jgriffith's dog | 16:29 | |
| guitarzan | so the idea of "extensions can slightly modify core behavior" is a non starter? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | thingee: yes we did | 16:29 |
| guitarzan | admin actions reset status for example | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: good example | 16:29 |
| DuncanT | guitarzan: They can only via defined points in the task flows was a proposal | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | guitarzan: however that's modify an existing column... different | 16:30 |
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| caitlin56 | So how is the state of a shared volume reflected in tables for those who did not install the extension? | 16:30 |
| guitarzan | jgriffith: oh? I didn't catch that | 16:30 |
| guitarzan | jgriffith: carry on then :) | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: the idea was modifying the table schema should be avoided | 16:30 |
| winston-d | should we revisit all existing extensions and promote some of them to be core? | 16:30 |
| guitarzan | jgriffith: ahh, hopefully there aren't many gripes against that | 16:30 |
| thingee | winston-d: that's a whole other debate | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: yes we should | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | but not today :) | 16:31 |
| thingee | jgriffith: thank you | 16:31 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: :) | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | so the "join" problem does have potential to be an issue | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | but this is what I ws getting at (I think) in HK | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | in a lot of cases it's probably NOT going to be a problem | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | and I think that we should consider this sort of thing on a case by case basis | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | I understand the concern and need to keep from going crazy here | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | I think we can wait intil an instance where it comes up and worry about it then... we aren't carving this rule in stone, we can revisit it | 16:32 |
| sgordon | caitlin56, which state(s) in particular were you thinking about? | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | I'm just not sure if hard line rules really are a good thing in terms of progress | 16:33 |
| sgordon | caitlin56, to someone who doesnt have that extension whether it is shareable or not doesn't seem interesting to me, it's just another volume? | 16:33 |
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| caitlin56 | Like whether the volume is attached? | 16:33 |
| sgordon | caitlin56, same as today no? | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: +1 | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | sgordon: +1 | 16:33 |
| avishay | Thingee: i can implement replication by modifying the create-volume flow | 16:33 |
| avishay | Thingee: want to try your idea with it? | 16:34 |
| thingee | avishay: the idea would be the extension itself would inject a task into the existing flow | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: I really like/d that idea | 16:34 |
| avishay | Yes...though i would have to replace a task too | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | and I think for 90+% of our extensions that works | 16:34 |
| avishay | I think its a really neat idea | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | ok... I don't want to get too in the weeds | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | avishay: thingee it would be cool if we worked on something with replication as a first pass at trying this | 16:35 |
| sgordon | jgriffith, yeah i think that gives me enough in mind to progress multi-attach anyway - zhiyan would you agree? | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | I was hoping we could more clearly define what we want to do here in terms of policy | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | ie extensions/db etc | 16:36 |
| sgordon | indeed | 16:36 |
| thingee | #action thingee writes a proposal and possibly example code to demonstrate a new ext. with table and injecting tasks | 16:36 |
| kmartin | agree with jgriffith, this should stop us from moving forward on the multi-attach | 16:36 |
| zhiyan | sgordon: yes, thanks. will follow this up later | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | So... I want to see if I have this right (this time) | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | We want to move forward trying to behave such that: | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | 1. Extensions shouldn't mess with schema of existing tables | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | 2. Extensions should inject into taskflow | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | 3. Extensions that need DB info should use their own "new" tables in the DB | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | Is that pretty much accurate? | 16:37 |
| thingee | yes | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, I think I'm good with saying we "try" that | 16:38 |
| sgordon | yeah | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | anybody have objections to the idea? Or questions? | 16:38 |
| avishay | +1 | 16:38 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: thingee: sounds good, but i'm thinking does this can work well for multi-attach particular case. i'm thinking we need modify current volume table scheme.. | 16:38 |
| kmartin | sounds good | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: well that's kinda the point | 16:39 |
| sgordon | zhiyan, so i think the key question for us is where to store that a volume is shareable | 16:39 |
| sgordon | zhiyan, sounds like "elsewhere" | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: maybe we can be creative and do it differntly without modifying existing schema | 16:39 |
| sgordon | yes, i need to consider that some more | 16:39 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Sounds good. | 16:39 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: humm...i will think about it.. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: I hate to say this but I would use types :) | 16:39 |
| caitlin56 | But if you store the fact that a volume is shareable "Elsewhere" how does a compute node know that it cannot take exclusive ownership of a volume? | 16:40 |
| avishay | Need an array of instance ids, no? | 16:40 |
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| sgordon | jgriffith, that is actually probably a cleaner suggestion than anything else :) | 16:40 |
| guitarzan | it seems more like attachments become a first class citizen | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: To be decided. | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: and honestly that's what types are for IMO | 16:41 |
| winston-d | caitlin56: compute node can query cinder ? | 16:41 |
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| sgordon | really the compute node is told it's got r/o or r/w, even in multi attach it assumes it has ownership | 16:41 |
| caitlin56 | winston-d: using which schmea? I think you end up addig an extra state enum to the "core" at the minimum. | 16:41 |
| kmartin | sorry, I need to run. | 16:41 |
| sgordon | it's the application / guest that handles that it's not exclusive | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: caitlin56 that's easier to solve atually | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | Or the multi-attach can inject into the flow and include it in the connection data that it is possibly shared | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: caitlin56 there's provider/connection info that I added | 16:41 |
| sgordon | right | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: no worries... catch ya later | 16:42 |
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| sgordon | so i dont think it's insurmountable | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | Ok... we need to save time for ACL | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | I think we all kinda of agree on this | 16:42 |
| sgordon | the direction we covered here is definitely helpful in terms of moving the design forward | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | it could be challenging but I think it's doable | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | and I think it's efficient | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | if it ends up being something that is insurmountable we can look at an exception process | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | but we should at least try | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | everybody cool with that? | 16:43 |
| sgordon | so i will try and update the wiki to reflect what we've discussed and then we can continue on list etc | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: sounds good to me | 16:43 |
| winston-d | yup, please try not to mess up with existing schema | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | sgordon: +1 | 16:43 |
| zhiyan | sgordon: thanks for working on that | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: :) | 16:43 |
| * sgordon believes thingee put an action on the more formal proposal for extensions | 16:43 | |
| avishay | Cool | 16:43 |
| sgordon | i will cover the multi-attach wiki | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | sgordon: yes he did | 16:43 |
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| jgriffith | ok... I feel better about that subject now :) | 16:43 |
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| sgordon | #action sgordon to update multi-attach wiki with today's comments/concerns and further discussion on list | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | #topic ACL | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ACL (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:44 | |
| jgriffith | alatynskaya: ping | 16:44 |
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| alatynskaya | yes, hello) | 16:44 |
| aguzikova | hello again | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | alatynskaya: aguzikova hey there | 16:44 |
| * rushiagr trudges into the meeting, feeling sorry for being late the umpteenth time | 16:45 | |
| aguzikova | we've added more details here: | 16:45 |
| aguzikova | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-cinder-acls-for-volumes | 16:45 |
| aguzikova | and we have a suggestion to hold weekly separate meetings for ACL | 16:45 |
| aguzikova | is this a good idea? | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | aguzikova: the separate meetings? | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | aguzikova: probabaly/maybe | 16:46 |
| DuncanT | I worry that separate meets will miss feedback from people who only have a peripheral interest but a good eye for spotting problems | 16:46 |
| alatynskaya | if there would be a lot of questions to design | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | aguzikova: guitarzan DuncanT thingee I have a question about the whole idea in general though.... | 16:47 |
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| jgriffith | So IMO this is a neat feature for sure... but what I'm wondering is "is it useful" | 16:47 |
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| jgriffith | is there demand for something like this? | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | or are we solving a problem that doesn't really exist? | 16:47 |
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| * jgriffith hears crickets | 16:49 | |
| DuncanT | We've had questions about it, and examples of why customers want it, but I'm not sure it is a huge thing. | 16:49 |
| aguzikova | ACL is a good foundation for flexible read-only-volumes, public-volumes features | 16:49 |
| guitarzan | I haven't heard much | 16:49 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: it might be a "real issue" once we have multi-attach. | 16:49 |
| alatynskaya | jgriffith: is the current realisation of public volumes throug admin metadata is quite ok? | 16:49 |
| alatynskaya | aguzikova: +1 | 16:49 |
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| alatynskaya | acl is flexible enough | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | aguzikova: that makes sense | 16:49 |
| alatynskaya | and also for multi-attach | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | aguzikova: I wonder if there's a different approach that could be taken here though | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | something a little less complex | 16:50 |
| thingee | I know I led the original speaker down the road of it being a core feature, but I think after a later discussion I changed my vote. | 16:50 |
| rushiagr | ACLs would definitely be neater | 16:50 |
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| DuncanT | The usecases we were provided are much more basic than multi-attach... just about stopping most uses inside a tenant being able to do dangerous things | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | like maybe doing something in keystone | 16:50 |
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| thingee | I do apologize about that | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: like what? | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: e.g. volume transfer | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: disable a user from being able to xfr? Why is that dangerous though? | 16:51 |
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| winston-d | DuncanT: tech support doesn't need admin privilege? | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | sorry... I shouldn't side track the discussion | 16:52 |
| caitlin56 | DuncanT: and can you really prevent it, if the user can read the volume, can't they do anything with what they read? | 16:52 |
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| DuncanT | caitlin56: Different problem space | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | So my concern is that doing this breaks down a lot of the tenant security things that we have in place | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | I'm concerned that this would introduce all sorts of security issues | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: My usecases are all subtractive from the current tenant roles, not adative like public volumes | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | unless it was a pure extension that could be completely disabled | 16:53 |
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| caitlin56 | jgriffith: I also like the very simple implied ACL that each volume is controlled by the Tentant Admin that owns it. | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: seems odd to take away any of the things that we expose | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: but you're the SP not me | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT: we would probably use rbac for the "limit transfer" case | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | and not necessarily do it per volume | 16:54 |
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| guitarzan | but that's kind of a guess | 16:55 |
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| alatynskaya | caitlin56: in our case Tentant Admin is volume owner and it can manage his volume | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts/concerns about ACL | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | guitarzan: RBAC is fine but only the SP can define the roles | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | in gernal | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT: that's true | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | general | 16:55 |
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| DuncanT | guitarzan: That enables some things but ACLs have the potential to be way more flexible | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT: totally agree | 16:55 |
| wolsen | it seems that ACLs are generally a good thing, but I suspect some place like keystone may be a better place as there's probably a more general use case across the board than just cinder volumes requiring ACLs | 16:56 |
| caitlin56 | alatynskaya: I think that's the point jgriffith is hinting at, without multi-attach do we need any ACLs other than tracking the volume owner? | 16:56 |
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| jgriffith | wolsen: I sort of had the same though, until it was suggested folks may only want to limit certain operations | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | in which case it becomes more complex to go tht route and you might as well put it all in Cinder | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: guitarzan the "flexibility" is kinda what concerns me | 16:57 |
| wolsen | jgriffith: agreed that it becomes more complex that way, but when looking at the bigger picture I think it might be painful having x implementations of ACLs across the full stack | 16:57 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: guitarzan does swift or anybody else have this concept? | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | swift does acls | 16:57 |
| notmyname | ? | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | wolsen: agreed | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | Swift does, yes | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | notmyname: LOL | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | notmyname: has a ping on swift :) | 16:58 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: so the 'virtual private cloud' that AWS has, is it an example of RBAC within account/tenant? | 16:58 |
| notmyname | indeed :-) | 16:58 |
| alatynskaya | and glance also has | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | alatynskaya: good point | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: I think so, yes | 16:58 |
| * jgriffith needs to look at swifts implementation | 16:58 | |
| DuncanT | winston-d: And a pretty good example complex usecase | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | glance has acls? | 16:58 |
| * notmyname is available for questions | 16:58 | |
| * jgriffith is going to type in "swift" all day to bug notmyname | 16:58 | |
| * guitarzan looks it up | 16:58 | |
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| zhiyan | alatynskaya: glance just using backend store's acl, like swift | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | we're going to run out of time | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | swift's implementation has issues too... you need to touch keystone to add new combinations, like "add only, no delete or over-write" | 16:59 |
| caitlin56 | Cinder ACLs should be simpler than Swift ACLs, but folloiwng the Swift pattern makes sense. | 16:59 |
| guitarzan | I think we might need to clarify in tenant acl vs out of tenant acls? | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | alatynskaya: aguzikova would you be available to talk in #cinder for a few minutes? | 16:59 |
| hartsocks | if you need a few minutes, we're probably going to run short today anyway. | 16:59 |
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| aguzikova | jgriffith, yes,of course | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: why would they be simpler? You're either implementing them or not IMO | 17:00 |
| alatynskaya | yes | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | Let's all move over to #cinder and give up the room | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting cinder | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 4 17:00:33 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
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| caitlin56 | jgriffith: there are more things you can do with an object than with a volume. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-12-04-16.01.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-12-04-16.01.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-12-04-16.01.log.html | 17:00 |
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| hartsocks | who's around? | 17:01 |
| rgerganov | hello | 17:01 |
| skolathu | Hi all | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | let's hold a minute so see if more folks show up for VMwareAPI | 17:02 |
| tjones | hi | 17:02 |
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| dims | \o | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | okay … let's get going then. | 17:03 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 17:03:53 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | greetings stackers! | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | Let's go around and introduce ourselves since we've not done that in a bit. | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | Just your name is fine since I don't know everyone's handles. | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | I'll start: | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | Shawn Hartock | 17:04 |
| dims | Davanum Srinivas | 17:04 |
| rgerganov | Radoslav Gerganov | 17:04 |
| tjones | Tracy Jones | 17:05 |
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| hartsocks | okay. | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | First on the agenda... | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | Bugs, then Blueprints, then open discussion... | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | #topic bugs | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:06 | |
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| hartsocks | Who has a bug we *need* to look at? | 17:06 |
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| tjones | the next havana freeze is tomorrow - so any bug we want backported needs to move today | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | #link http://goo.gl/Mzc1wU bugs for backport? | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | Hmm… maybe that's not a good report. | 17:08 |
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| tjones | yeah that's the triage report | 17:08 |
| tjones | L-D | 17:08 |
| tjones | :-D | 17:08 |
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| rgerganov | I guess we want to backport https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1255609 | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | #undo | 17:08 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x27bc110> | 17:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1255609 in nova "VMware: possible collision of VNC ports" [Low,In progress] | 17:08 |
| rgerganov | this is the VNC security issue | 17:09 |
| tjones | i'd say the stats issue | 17:09 |
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| tjones | the postgres issue | 17:09 |
| tjones | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1195139 | 17:10 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1195139 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "vmware: error trying to store hypervisor_version as string in using postgresql" [Critical,In progress] | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | I've targeted bug/1255609 to i1 | 17:10 |
| tjones | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1252827 | 17:10 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1252827 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "VMWARE: Intermittent problem with stats reporting" [Critical,In progress] | 17:10 |
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| tjones | hartsocks: do you think that one is done enough to ask for help from the core reviewers to get this in so we can backport? | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | hmm… bug/1252827 is set for i2 … why? | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | which one? bug/1252827 the stats bug? | 17:11 |
| tjones | is | 17:11 |
| tjones | yes | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | Russell bumped us from i1 to i2. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | Looks like that happened 18 hours ago. | 17:12 |
| tjones | bummer | 17:12 |
| russellb | because iccehouse-1 deadline was yesterday | 17:12 |
| russellb | it's frozen now | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | ah. | 17:12 |
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| hartsocks | well then. we're just late to the party. | 17:13 |
| tjones | ok then it looks like 1195139 and 1229994 should get backported asap | 17:13 |
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| tjones | to make havana freeze | 17:13 |
| rgerganov | when is the havana freeze? | 17:13 |
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| hartsocks | havana stable branch freeze was yesterday. | 17:14 |
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| tjones | arg - i thought it was tomorrow | 17:14 |
| tjones | missed the board | 17:14 |
| tjones | boat | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | I knew there was a release on the 12th ... | 17:14 |
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| hartsocks | We should probably dedicate somebody to watch those stable release deadlines. | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | I de-nominate myself. | 17:15 |
| rgerganov | does that mean that we can't get anything backported to havana? | 17:15 |
| tjones | i'll do it :-( | 17:15 |
| tjones | i thought the freeze was 1 week before not 1 week and 1 day :-( | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | it's probably timezone things. | 17:15 |
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| tjones | oh that :-D | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | It's tomorrow in Hong Kong :-) | 17:16 |
| tjones | russellb: is the freeze 1 week before release in UTC? | 17:16 |
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| tjones | will be good to know since i just nominated myself to watch this | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 17:17 |
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| hartsocks | The i1 deadline is 12/5 which is tomorrow. | 17:17 |
| tjones | yeah that icehouse - i need havana too | 17:17 |
| tjones | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranchRelease | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | The thing we weren't watching was the havana-stable release schedule. | 17:18 |
| tjones | yes i have the schedule from that link - i just missed that there is a freeze (duh) | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | So, anything in flight now we need to target for Jan 16th. | 17:19 |
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| hartsocks | I've not been beating the drums lately. | 17:19 |
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| tjones | ok we missed the next havana (bummer). lets take a quick look at anything we have pending for tomorrow ( | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | I'll have to get back on that :-) | 17:19 |
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| tjones | L-D | 17:19 |
| tjones | :-D | 17:19 |
| tjones | can't type today | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | tjones: so I'll watch IceHouse and you can watch Havana Stable? | 17:20 |
| tjones | sure (and grizz) | 17:20 |
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| hartsocks | not to give you too much to watch :-) | 17:20 |
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| tjones | :-D - just took a peek and we have nothing pending for i-1. they all moved to i-2 | 17:21 |
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| * hartsocks gets out his drum, starts beating it | 17:21 | |
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| hartsocks | okay. So we'll table this for now and come back to it next week. i2 is technically a short deadline for most of us with the holidays in there. | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | On the topic of bugs... | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | any problem bugs we've not hit on yet? | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | #topic blueprints | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:24 | |
| hartsocks | So last week we identified our top 3 blueprints (for the driver) | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | *. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=vmware-vm-diagnostics | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | *. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=vmware-image-cache-management | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | *. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-vsan-support | 17:24 |
| tjones | for i-2 right? | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | I targeted these all at i2 | 17:24 |
| tjones | heh | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | wait... | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | Gary had one pretty far along... | 17:24 |
| tjones | his are the 1st 2 | 17:25 |
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| hartsocks | broken links... | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | hold on. | 17:25 |
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| hartsocks | hmm… I can't find that first one this week. | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-image-cache-management | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | that one is i2 b/c it needs some rework. | 17:26 |
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| hartsocks | #action follow up with garyk on vmware-vm-diagnostics | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | I literally can't find that diagnostics one. I thought it was pretty far along. | 17:27 |
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| hartsocks | oh well. so much for talking about that one. | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | I did a quick patch last week on WSDL caching. | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | It has "caching" as part of it. | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | so I did some research on OSLO and how to maybe do generic "caching" for everything. | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | There's an Oslo BP in flight right now doing a generic cache interface. | 17:29 |
| tjones | cool | 17:29 |
| hartsocks | So just like the config BP we had, we might be able to link these two things up. It's worth looking at anyway. | 17:30 |
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| danflorea | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-vm-diagnostics | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | hi dan! | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | awesome. | 17:32 |
| danflorea | hi | 17:32 |
| tjones | the blueprint dashboard needs a blueprint for easier searching :-) | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:32 |
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| hartsocks | that's our BP for i1 | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | Looks like it's on track. | 17:33 |
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| hartsocks | Gary's not around so we'll just wave as it goes by. | 17:34 |
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| danflorea | I think he was making good progress. There was a request to add namespaces for tempest purposes. | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/51404/ <- very good progress indeed! | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | Merged! | 17:35 |
| vuil | gary should be joining in a couple of minutes. | 17:35 |
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| hartsocks | Well, while we're waiting. | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-vsan-support | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | This is targeted for i2 | 17:36 |
| vuil | Good progress made. i2 coz it needs some refactoring a some more tests | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | vuil: could you target i2 on the BP? I apparently don't have permissions. | 17:37 |
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| vuil | huh, let me see | 17:38 |
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| vuil | The BP will need to review eyes as well btw | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | I've committed to getting out my "do reviews" drum and beating on it… | 17:39 |
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| tjones | im tempted to spend some time doing a dashboard that shows RED when things are just withering on the vine waiting for reviews | 17:40 |
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| hartsocks | well, I already burn a lot of time on that script that I run. What's a quick Django project on top of that? :-) | 17:40 |
| tjones | exactly | 17:40 |
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| tjones | i'll do it since i've never used django ;-) | 17:41 |
| vuil | I don't know how to give permission on the bp, but I updated the milestone to i2 | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | thanks. | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | So speaking of OSLO and BP... | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | Are we doing our Configuration Validation work as part of Oslo now? | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | We had that validator BP | 17:42 |
| tjones | im horribly behind on that - still have not met with ogelbukh…. | 17:42 |
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| hartsocks | would you like some help with that? | 17:43 |
| tjones | yes please | 17:43 |
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| hartsocks | okay. I'll ping ogelbukh and we'll try and set up an IRC/etherpad thing like I see the big-kids doing. | 17:44 |
| garyk | hi, sorry for being terribly late | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | np | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | this is a horrible time of day for a meeting for you. | 17:44 |
| garyk | :) | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | We were discussing... | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-vm-diagnostics | 17:44 |
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| garyk | :) - that was approved today | 17:45 |
| tjones | congrats! | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | congrats! | 17:45 |
| garyk | gracias | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | also... | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-image-cache-management | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | looks like that's for i2 now | 17:46 |
| garyk | yeah - that is blocked due to the fact that we are not using common config options. | 17:46 |
| danflorea | does vm diagnostics require tempest changes? or those are already done as well? | 17:46 |
| garyk | i have posted https://review.openstack.org/#/c/59994/ and need to ping russelb about this | 17:46 |
| garyk | i just need to solve issues with the tests which have cropped up | 17:46 |
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| garyk | locally they passed - something is fishy with the mock stuff | 17:47 |
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| garyk | i'll look at them after the meeting | 17:47 |
| danflorea | Ok. I was under the impression that the namespace changes would apply to other drivers as well and would impact tempest. I can ask you about it later. | 17:47 |
| garyk | danflorea: i am planning on addressing the namespaces tomorrow | 17:48 |
| garyk | i plan to add it to libvirt, hyperv and xen. but that is another issue and not related ot the image caching | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | for the record, namespace issues? | 17:49 |
| garyk | hartsocks: the different drivers return different keys for the diagnostics. the spacial once are under a driver namespace | 17:49 |
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| garyk | this is due to the fact that there is no common diagnostics api and no set values to return | 17:50 |
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| hartsocks | thanks. | 17:50 |
| danflorea | garyk: ok, sounds good to me | 17:50 |
| garyk | danflorea: ok, thanks. it is on my to do list | 17:50 |
| hartsocks | any other BP folks need to discuss? | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | I think any BP we've not covered here probably gets pushed to i3 | 17:52 |
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| hartsocks | #topic opendiscussion | 17:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opendiscussion (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:52 | |
| hartsocks | okay. open discussion. | 17:53 |
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| hartsocks | I noticed this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/cache-backend-abstraction | 17:54 |
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| jchan | quit | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | okay. fine. I will. | 17:54 |
| tjones | LOL | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | geesh. | 17:54 |
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| hartsocks | so srsly. | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | I noticed this was an abstract cache service. | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | so I'm wondering how I would write and then use a cache based on this in our driver. | 17:56 |
| tjones | what do you want to cache? sessions (for example)? | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | well, first off… we have an image cache right now… does that fit? | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | I was writing a WSDL cache… does that fit? | 17:58 |
| vuil | nope. | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | Not sure. | 17:58 |
| vuil | image cache on server side | 17:58 |
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| vuil | VC/ESX i mean. | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | The examples are Memcache and Redis which leads down a certain path. | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | a Datastore based one might make no sense. | 17:59 |
| tjones | wsdl maybe? | 17:59 |
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| hartsocks | Yeah, I'll play with that. | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | That's time. | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 4 18:00:09 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-12-04-17.03.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-12-04-17.03.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-12-04-17.03.log.html | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | over at #openstack-vmware for more if you want it. | 18:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: there? | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: hi | 18:01 |
| RajeshMohan | hi | 18:01 |
| SridarK | HI | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: hi | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: there? | 18:02 |
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| RajeshMohan | Sumit: Are you back in Bay area? | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: yeah, i am back, still in IST though :-) | 18:02 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | just kidding | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets start | 18:02 |
| RajeshMohan | :-) | 18:02 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: ok | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we might have a shorter meeting | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 18:03:08 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:03 | |
| garyduan | Hi | 18:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Welcome back, hope everyone is recharged after the summit and thanksgiving! | 18:03 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: hi | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: is Yi around? | 18:03 |
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| garyduan | Not sure. | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: ok | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic tempest | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tempest (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:04 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/fwaas-api-tempest | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | animesh is still looking at this | 18:04 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | I believe the suggestion from the neutron team is to target services related tempest tests for I3 | 18:05 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | however we will try to do this sooner | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | as before, if anyone wants to participate, this is a great time to jump in, since we are all learning | 18:05 |
| SridarK | Also do we do some sort of integrated scenario tests with all services | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah | 18:06 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: I can help with tempest | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: sweet | 18:06 |
| SridarK | ok Thanks | 18:06 |
| SridarK | same here | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: nice | 18:06 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: what is the relation between tempest and gate? | 18:06 |
| SridarK | perhaps we can have a mtg with animesh to get some core dump | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | gate uses tempest tests as one of the gating criteria | 18:06 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: and vendor external testbed | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: vendor external testbed is the one which vendors will have to run in their setup (hooked up to the product they are exposing in neutron/openstack) and have the tempest tests run against that | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | once the tests run and complete, they should report back the result (i.e. vote on that particular patch set) | 18:08 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: thanks | 18:08 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #action SumitNaiksatam to setup coordination between RajeshMohan SridarK Rudra and Animesh regarding FWaaS tempest tests | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: i guess you will have to plan 3rd party testing for the varmour driver? | 18:10 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | anything more on tempest or testing in general? | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | for the rest of the meeting lets go in the order of the items we proposed to the PTL to target of Icehouse | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the PTL has retargeted the blueprints on which we had explicitly mentioned the milestones | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and those have been pushed to I3 | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Service Insertion for Firewall | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Insertion for Firewall (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:13 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-service-insertion | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this is tied to to bigger insertion discussion and blueprint | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we want to target this for I1 but both have been targeted for I3 | 18:14 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i don't have much of an update on this beyond that | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | any thoughts/questions? | 18:15 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Is there more clarity on the service insertion bp timelines | 18:15 |
| RajeshMohan | We shoud start design discussions | 18:15 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: service insertion and chaining blueprint is also targeted for I3 | 18:16 |
| SridarK | which would be a dependency for FWaaS service insertion | 18:16 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: so we could start some work and have some overlapped activity for FWaaS | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah, so its tight | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: and increases the odds of this not going through (or us being forced to take a shortcut) | 18:17 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: so the router-id will come from insertion context? | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: to your earlier question - you mean continue the design discussions? | 18:17 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: :-( | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: since we already had plenty of discussions on this and I thought we converged on moving forward with the current proposal | 18:18 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: yes - mainly trying to understand the dependence on service-insertion bp and fwaas bp | 18:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: to your latter question, yes | 18:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | btw, I1 is tomorrow, I2 is Jan 23rd I believe | 18:19 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: we can have another session on strategizing as to how we go forward on this | 18:20 |
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| RajeshMohan | Sumit: Thanks. | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: anything more to add (I know the short cut option sucks and wouldn't want to take that) | 18:21 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: As i had mentioned to u earlier - there is strong interest in a L2 realization of FWaaS from one of our customers | 18:21 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok | 18:22 |
| SridarK | Would like to add that to the list of features and discuss more on the priority. | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: lets take that as a separate item in the agenda today | 18:22 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Thanks | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic service_type framework | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "service_type framework (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:22 | |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: brought it up in the context of service insertion but we can discuss separately | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah, thanks | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-service-types-integration | 18:23 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | this has also been retargeted from I2 to I3 | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: any progress on this? | 18:23 |
| garyduan | pretty much done | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: sweet | 18:23 |
| garyduan | I can submit patch for review | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: i would then encourage you to post the patch for review | 18:23 |
| garyduan | Ok | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thanks | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic zones | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "zones (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:24 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-zones-api | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | currently this bp is not targeted for any milestone, but we had proposed that we would work on this in I2 | 18:24 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: started work on a doc | 18:24 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok good | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | however, the bp is not targeted for a milestone | 18:25 |
| SridarK | need to discuss more btwn u & RajeshMohan: | 18:25 |
| SridarK | yes not clear on the priority of this for Icehouse | 18:25 |
| SridarK | will need to see what we can push out | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | its okay to have this as a discussion item for Icehouse and then implement in J, if it's fine with everyone | 18:26 |
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| RajeshMohan | Sumit: I think that is a good idea | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: ok good | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: good to continue the effort on the doc so as to drive the discussion | 18:27 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: will be good to get it in for I3 but given dependencies and other priorities seem like J is more realistic | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: agree | 18:27 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: ok will do | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks (i changed the status of the bp to discussion) | 18:27 |
| SridarK | ok | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Service Objects | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Objects (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:27 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-customized-service | 18:28 |
| garyduan | Yi is working on it | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we had proposed this for I3, but the blueprint is not targeted for a milestone | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: ok | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | seems like he is not around | 18:28 |
| garyduan | making good progress | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: as a matter of procedure, Yi needs to propose a target milestone for this blueprint | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the PTL can then decide whether its appropriate and approve accordingly | 18:29 |
| garyduan | Ok. I will ask him | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action garyduan to sync up with Yi on milestone target for service objects bp | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic revisit firewall to firewall_policy association | 18:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "revisit firewall to firewall_policy association (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:30 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-fwaas-explicit-commit | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: you mentioned that there was some interest/validation from users on this? | 18:31 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Yes there was strong interest from our customer | 18:31 |
| SridarK | were also interested in hooking in audit / logging | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok | 18:31 |
| SridarK | so we can add that to the list of folks who think this is important to have | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan, garyduan: how about your customers/people using your products? | 18:32 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: As we have told you before, commit is important feature for firewall | 18:33 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: good, but can we get validation from some users? | 18:33 |
| garyduan | We'd like to see commit feature in FWaaS | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | one of the suggestions made during the summit was that we have to provide validation from users to push this forward | 18:33 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: Can Paypal help here? | 18:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i think us making this case is not moving the ball forward on this, we need the users to speak up as well | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: thats a good suggestion | 18:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: they seem to be more inclined towards using SG | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | probably thats a shorter term thing, but thats the impression i got | 18:35 |
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| RajeshMohan | Sumit: ok | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | some validation from your direct customers/users will help | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | that way we can organize a discussion between the PTL, us, and the users and try to move forward on this | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | until then, I see this as stuck | 18:36 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | does everyone agree? | 18:36 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok i will take that as a yes! :-) | 18:37 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic vendor drivers | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "vendor drivers (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:37 | |
| SridarK | sorry got bounced out | 18:37 |
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| RajeshMohan | Sumit: I thought the discussion in summit was on approach. I thought everyone sees the need for it. Was I wrong? | 18:37 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #undo | 18:38 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x26b6390> | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: not sure everyone was convinced of the need either, the pushback was that it is in some way not RESTful | 18:39 |
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| RajeshMohan | There were alternate approaches (like duplicating policy) and I assumed that others see the need for it | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i have sought clarification on this in the review, but i am yet to get a good answer on this | 18:40 |
| RajeshMohan | ok - we can cite existing products that have commit feature | 18:40 |
| garyduan | I mentioned once, maybe for simplicity, once we commit, we commit to all firewall | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: yes, that, and more importantly we need some actual user voices to push for this | 18:41 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: we can discuss those level semantics as a second step, but we first need to get agreement on the commit/apply operation | 18:41 |
| garyduan | sure | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic vendor drivers | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "vendor drivers (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:42 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan SridarK RajeshMohan: anything you guys planning on pushing in icehouse? | 18:42 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: We will have a dependency on zones so unlikely in icehouse | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok | 18:43 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: Same here. Zones and commit are must before we publish our driver | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: ok | 18:43 |
| garyduan | For us, it's mostly refactoring | 18:43 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit: Will talk to product management on commit on get back to you | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: ok, which milestone are you targeting? | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: thanks | 18:44 |
| garyduan | as part of service framework, | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: okay, so I3? | 18:44 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: yes. we have a bp | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: ok | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i want to give SridarK time for the discussion on L2 firewall | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic L2 firewall | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "L2 firewall (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:44 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: please go ahead | 18:45 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Thanks | 18:45 |
| SridarK | do u think this is something we can target post service insertion | 18:45 |
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| sc68cal | SridarK: I'm here too for this | 18:45 |
| SridarK | i think it is a valid and common deployment case | 18:45 |
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| sc68cal | if any q's about our usecase | 18:46 |
| SridarK | so68cal: thanks Sean - pls add more | 18:46 |
| SridarK | as reqd | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK sc68cal: thanks | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: absolutely, this is the reason for the proposal on service insertion to tackle these different possibilitites | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | sc68cal: as a user i think we need your input/support on the service insertion/chaining proposal | 18:47 |
| sc68cal | The main issue we have is that with the layer-3 agent still a SPOF, we're using provider networks for L3 services for instances. We'd like to have our cake and eat it too, still be able to take advantage of certain APIs that currently require the l3 agent | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | based on that we can support many different possibilities for services | 18:47 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: And this is a good demonstration of the use cases service insertion/chaining can address | 18:47 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | sc68cal: ok | 18:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: agree | 18:48 |
| SridarK | Also to add to so68cal - beyond solving specific needs this is a common use case that will be of interest to many | 18:49 |
| sc68cal | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-provider-network | 18:49 |
| sc68cal | we did a very quick writeup | 18:49 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK sc68cal: I would recommend adding a blueprint for the reference implementation of L2 firewall with a dependency on the service insertion/chaining blueprint | 18:49 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: will do so | 18:50 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: sounds good | 18:50 |
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| sc68cal | SumitNaiksatam: ok - should we take that blueprint I linked, and add a dep for the service insertion blueprint? | 18:50 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | sc68cal: that might work too, but i think that particular is not very clear about the L2 aspect of the firewall | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | perhaps this needs more than one bp | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | you can coordinate with SridarK | 18:51 |
| sc68cal | ok will do | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can have a separate session to dig deeper into this, all are welcome | 18:52 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic open discussion | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:52 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | anything else that anyone wants to bring up? | 18:52 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: hopefully things on neutron will settle down so we can get some of feature needs addressed | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | alrighty…thats a wrap then, thanks everyone, until next time, bye! | 18:53 |
| RajeshMohan | bye | 18:53 |
| SridarK | thanks bye | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: absolutely, we also need to chip in on that front! :-) | 18:54 |
| SridarK | yes for sure | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 18:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 4 18:54:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-12-04-18.03.html | 18:54 |
| garyduan | bye | 18:54 |
| SridarK | ok bye | 18:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-12-04-18.03.txt | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks | 18:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-12-04-18.03.log.html | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bye | 18:54 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting | 20:01 |
| openstack | stevebaker: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 20:01:37 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| randallburt | please don't start a Marketing Committee meeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:01 |
| adrian_otto | hah | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| radix | hello | 20:01 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
| tspatzier | hi | 20:01 |
| randallburt | heyya | 20:01 |
| jasond | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| skraynev | o/ | 20:01 |
| kebray | o/ | 20:01 |
| tims | o/ | 20:01 |
| lakshmi | o/ | 20:02 |
| vineethv | hi o/ | 20:02 |
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| kwhitney | hi | 20:02 |
| pafuent | hi | 20:02 |
| mspreitz | hi | 20:02 |
| pshchelo_ | hi | 20:02 |
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| sdake_ | irc.freenode.net just crashed from o/ | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | #topic Review last meeting's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last meeting's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
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| stevebaker | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-11-27-20.00.html | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | Randall to publish use cases for heat template catalog | 20:03 |
| tims | \o/ | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | we have template catalog on the agenda, lets talk about that later | 20:03 |
| randallburt | k | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
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| stevebaker | Any items to add? | 20:04 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | #linkg https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda | 20:04 |
| topol | o/ | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | #topic * icehouse-1 release | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "* icehouse-1 release (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: you made it !1 | 20:04 |
| sdake_ | no quorum without spamaps ;) | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-1 | 20:05 |
| SpamapS | if that were true... there would be no quorum ;) | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | we're looking pretty good | 20:05 |
| * stevebaker checks if we've actually branched yet | 20:05 | |
| sdake_ | green is good | 20:05 |
| randallburt | wow, that looks pretty good. | 20:05 |
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| shardy | bumping all the non-green-things ftw! ;) | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | it did not look so good yesterday.. :) | 20:06 |
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| sdake_ | can always do tomorrow what can't be done today ;0 | 20:06 |
| adrian_otto | damn, that's awesome | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: I just kicked all the things to i-2 ;) | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | right | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | https://github.com/openstack/heat/tree/milestone-proposed | 20:06 |
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| stevebaker | we can still get bug fixes into i-1 | 20:06 |
| jasond | stevebaker: this is merged, but not listed in the i-1 list https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/rackconnect | 20:07 |
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| stevebaker | by tagging the bug with... | 20:07 |
| jasond | maybe it needs to be approved? | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | does anybody know? | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | milestone-proposed? | 20:07 |
| shardy | stevebaker: yea | 20:07 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: Or actually, you just propose them by the backport process (same as stable) | 20:08 |
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| stevebaker | jasond: fixed | 20:08 |
| shardy | but the branch you propose to is milestone-proposed | 20:08 |
| jasond | stevebaker: thanks | 20:08 |
| shardy | don't necessarily have to tag the commit | 20:08 |
| stevebaker | ok, what shardy said. | 20:08 |
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| stevebaker | we got a lot of blueprints in, way better than grizzly-1 | 20:09 |
| sdake_ | more community members ftw! | 20:09 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Anyone can propose them in theory, but normally I think the PTL monitors the bugs merged between branch and release, and propose as needed | 20:09 |
| shardy | or at least that's what I did | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | yeah, anything that gets fixed in the next few days I'll evaluate for milestone-proposed | 20:10 |
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| stevebaker | well, the next day and a bit | 20:10 |
| * randallburt yells at tests to hurry up and work | 20:10 | |
| stevebaker | #topic * Template catalog use cases | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "* Template catalog use cases (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:10 | |
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| randallburt | tims: commence the link spam ;) | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: shoot! | 20:10 |
| tims | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/heat-template-repo | 20:10 |
| tims | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/htr | 20:11 |
| tims | \o/ | 20:11 |
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| stevebaker | shouldn't that be HeaTR? | 20:11 |
| randallburt | we basically added them to the existing bps and spec. We're still working on specs and don't want to spend much time there until everyone has a chance to review the use cases | 20:11 |
| sdake_ | shardy your wish is tims command :) | 20:11 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: I like | 20:11 |
| tims | haha | 20:11 |
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| randallburt | so there will also be a follow up ML post after the meeting to continue refining/consensus if that's cool with everyone. | 20:12 |
| tims | randallburt had to tell me what HTR stands for | 20:12 |
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| randallburt | maybe HOTTeR? | 20:13 |
| adrian_otto | oh, my | 20:13 |
| sdake_ | my money is on heat template repository | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | heattr | 20:13 |
| shardy | tims: So will this be a new orchestration project, not something we add via the existing heat API? | 20:13 |
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| tims | shardy: well that's up for debate | 20:13 |
| randallburt | shardy: that's the plan ATM. | 20:13 |
| SpamapS | Has there been any evaluation of existing API driven things for managing a catalog of documents? | 20:13 |
| SpamapS | Like, what makes HOT special that it needs a new one? | 20:14 |
| shardy | Ok, my position has always been that we shouldn't be storing templates via the orchestration API, but I can see the value in some other service related to heat, provided we don't reimplement git in the process ;) | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | yes, surely the CMS crowd has solved this problem many times | 20:14 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: some, but we still need to dig a bit more into your Glance proposal; I still need to see if it will actually work | 20:14 |
| tims | shardy: There are lots of cool things that we could do if it were part of existing heat api | 20:15 |
| shardy | tims: such as? | 20:15 |
| SpamapS | Glance doesn't have versioning and it may never have it. So I accept Glance isnt necessarily the answer (though adding versioning to glance would probably make some image deployers very happy..) | 20:15 |
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| tims | but I haven't clearly defined those things atm which I why I'm not super passionate about it | 20:15 |
| randallburt | shardy: we've talked a bit about HTR using git as a backing store and alternate means of management, but still need to document that as well | 20:15 |
| tims | things that require engine parsing the template | 20:15 |
| SpamapS | I worry that there is a default position of building rather than consuming. | 20:15 |
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| stevebaker | tims, randallburt: I have a use case which would be nice to add: | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | As a template author I want to add and manage templates in the repository using git | 20:16 |
| tims | that may not do Heat things but we would not want to duplicate the parsing logic | 20:16 |
| sdake_ | SpamapS could you expand on that point? | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | For instance, cgit has search, tagging, versioning.. why not just add keystone token auth to cgit? | 20:16 |
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| randallburt | stevebaker: yup sounds good to me and something tims and I discussed yesterday quite a bit. we still just need to put those thougts into the associated wiki | 20:16 |
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| tims | stevebaker: agreed | 20:17 |
| shardy | tims: I may need a little more detail to really understand what you're proposing | 20:17 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: fair point, but we've tried to step back and "do the right thing" here and just talk general use cases and get consensus around the service iteself | 20:17 |
| shardy | tims: Can you add a section to the wiki with the arguments for keeping the two things together? | 20:17 |
| tims | shardy: Yes I'm working on a formal proposal | 20:17 |
| tims | good idea | 20:17 |
| SpamapS | randallburt: fantastic, the use cases look realy solid actually. | 20:17 |
| shardy | tims: Just a quick brain-dump into the wiki is fine for now | 20:18 |
| tims | shardy: will do | 20:18 |
| sdake_ | randallburt the approach seems right for a contentious change ;) | 20:18 |
| randallburt | tims did all the heavy lifting. I just do reviews and go on vacation. | 20:18 |
| randallburt | and vineethv too | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | " A service maintainer would like to have a repository in which he can manage Heat templates and maintain associated keywords and metadata." | 20:19 |
| SpamapS | can we please use non-gender-specific pronouns? | 20:19 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: sure | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | tims, randallburt, so another issue is the apparent overlap with the scope of Murano. I think you guys really need to get together and find some common ground. The TC is only going to allow one template catalog into OpenStack. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Murano | 20:19 |
| tims | SpamapS: yeah I started going back through and fixing that stuff | 20:19 |
| tims | but I haven't finished | 20:19 |
| SpamapS | cool | 20:19 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: agreed. tims or I can reach out to them. They originally posted a comment on the BP a while back and I think they may be complementary when I read what they proposed, but I'll go see where they're at. | 20:20 |
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| stevebaker | randallburt: chances are they would be more than happy to use heattr as their cataloging layer | 20:21 |
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| tims | shardy: an initial idea is parsing the template to retrieve the "planned stack" resources based on parameters | 20:21 |
| tims | so we know exactly what resources are created before stack instantiation | 20:21 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: my thoughts exactly | 20:21 |
| tims | the argument I'm having with randallburt is whether thats a feature of Heater or Heat | 20:21 |
| kebray | stevebaker my understanding is Murano is a 3rd party (sell your stuff) Application Catalog. and, HTR is a template catalog for Heat templates. | 20:22 |
| shardy | tims: You mean like a template cost estimate or something? | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: and maybe https://github.com/stackforge/murano-dashboard can be the start of a horizon frontend to heattr | 20:22 |
| randallburt | tims shardy but that is a different bp imo and may belong in heat api proper, but its another issue to discuss | 20:22 |
| tims | shardy: more or less | 20:22 |
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| randallburt | stevebaker: oh cool. I'll check that out. | 20:22 |
| tims | randallburt: agreed but it could have ramifications on the discussion about putting Heater in Heat proper | 20:22 |
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| randallburt | tims: oh, right. yeah, thats going to be a fun one ;) | 20:23 |
| SpamapS | kebray: Sell your stuff or give your stuff away, sounds _very_ related. | 20:23 |
| shardy | tims: Ok, maybe we could have an API call which validates a template and returns a list of resources or something | 20:23 |
| randallburt | FWIW, lets get mailing list consensus on the UC/scope of Heater before we dive in to those waters. | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | kebray: ah. that sounds they are a layer above heattr. They should be strongly encouraged to get involved | 20:23 |
| sdake_ | tims: Heat is a component of the Orchestration program, so hopefully the ramifications won't be overblown | 20:24 |
| kebray | SpamapS agreed... will connect with the Murano folks more. That project keeps changing. One day it's windows, the next it's an app store. | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | Make sure the Murano folk have seen everything. | 20:24 |
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| SpamapS | kebray: agreed, that may be enough reason to stay away ;) | 20:24 |
| tims | shardy: :) yes I have thoughts about the validate endpoint too | 20:24 |
| randallburt | shardy: yeah, IMO its a tangental use case in which the user wants to know before they create a stack just how many of which resources would be created; not sure that's a Heater thing. | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | so if there is some POC code that already exists, lets get it into stackforge with a new gerrit core team | 20:24 |
| kebray | Yeah, they knew about HTR before they switched Muran's definition. The answer I got was they are doing something different. but, we will def reach out to them again. | 20:24 |
| shardy | tims: So IMO we could add some calls to support this, but I still remain very unconvinced that we should expose a template store via the heat (*orchestration*) endpoint | 20:25 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: about that, there is, but is having it in the Orchestration *program* still on the table? | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | If it eventually gets proposed to being part of the orchestration program, the gerrit team will become heat-core | 20:25 |
| randallburt | shardy: fwiw I agree. | 20:25 |
| tims | sdake_ shardy point taken and I am in general agreement | 20:25 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: because IMO, it belongs in the program and if we have a proposal for it now, I'd rather avoid the double work of getting it in stackforge and then moving it. | 20:26 |
| kebray | shardy randallburt , I think tims and I are in opposition with you guys... will definitely be good to understand each other's sides. More discussion to be had. | 20:26 |
| adrian_otto | fwiw, I took a good look at Murano, and I don't think it's similar enough to be a fit for this. | 20:26 |
| kebray | ok, maybe it's just me :-) | 20:26 |
| tims | as long as the proposed schema for heater has not valid use for Heat | 20:26 |
| tims | kebray I have some conditions in my agreement ;) | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | one thing about a program.. | 20:26 |
| kebray | hehe.. sure sure tims . | 20:27 |
| adrian_otto | I agree with randallburt they are complimentary | 20:27 |
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| SpamapS | is that programs can reach across to other projects and programs to achieve their mission. | 20:27 |
| SpamapS | programs are specifically _not_ silos. | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: moving from stackforge -> openstack isn't a huge deal. I don't know the process but I think a new source tree still needs some form of incubation even if it is part of the orchestration program from the start | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | SpamapS +1 | 20:27 |
| adrian_otto | +1 | 20:27 |
| randallburt | Yeah, my real question is "Can we develop this under github.com/openstack/heat-repository from the get go"? | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | #action stevebaker find out the incubation process for new projects in existing programs | 20:28 |
| randallburt | as part of the orchestration program | 20:28 |
| sdake_ | stevebaker that sounds like a popcorn-filled conversation :) | 20:28 |
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| SpamapS | randallburt: yes | 20:28 |
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| adrian_otto | I don't think there is a process yet | 20:28 |
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| SpamapS | we've added lots to openstack/xxx in TripleO | 20:29 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: k. certainly something we can explore more on the ML | 20:29 |
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| stevebaker | randallburt: we probably could, but it would most likely mean being owned by heat-core from the start. You might make quicker process with a new -core team, which would imply stackforge for now | 20:29 |
| SpamapS | integration into the release is what the incubation process brings, but the program gives you "officialness" | 20:29 |
| SpamapS | thats a word | 20:29 |
| SpamapS | I swear | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | stevebaker: what's wrong with using the current head-core for it? | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | another possible solution is to grow heat-core, which we should anyway | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | s/head/heat/ | 20:30 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: true and good point which we've of course discussed before. Just want to make sure we're all aware of the actual options. | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | reviews! reviews! reviews! | 20:30 |
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| randallburt | :3 pages: | 20:30 |
| sdake_ | need moar reviewers -> more heat core !! | 20:30 |
| shardy | adrian_otto: If most of the folks working on it aren't heat-core, they may get frustrated when we're slow reviewing their stuff ;) | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | shardy: I see | 20:30 |
| shardy | adrian_otto: I guess there are advantages to either approach | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: we can create sub-teams that are not heat-core but have access to a different openstack/xxxx repo | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | yeah we do actually need more reviewers | 20:31 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: do tripleo do that? | 20:31 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: with all your many many repos? | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/heat-openreviews.html | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: we have talked about doing so for tuskar | 20:31 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: but ultimately we just encouraged tuskar folk to review everything ;) | 20:31 |
| shardy | Average wait time: 1 days, 1 hours, 20 minutes | 20:32 |
| shardy | not too bad in comparison to some other projects IME | 20:32 |
| sdake_ | unfortunately I spend 2 hours a day doing reviews | 20:32 |
| sdake_ | would be nice to trim that to 1 hour :) | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | shardy: but that could be spread over way more reviewers | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/heat-reviewers-60.txt | 20:32 |
| randallburt | sdake_: only 2!!?? | 20:32 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I agree, and I think there are some potential candidates coming along :) | 20:33 |
| sdake_ | I haven't had the willpower to do any reviews since thanksgiving :( | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | Right I think we're doing well because we're all committed to doing well... but we could use more reviewers | 20:33 |
| * SpamapS notes ----> Open Discussion as we are OT | 20:33 | |
| pshchelo_ | hi all | 20:33 |
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| pshchelo_ | can we create a topic in openstack-dev specifically for heat? | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: so you should start a ML thread to talk about new project, where to host, who to be -core etc? | 20:34 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: that's the plan | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | sounds good | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | lets move on | 20:34 |
| tims | one more thought: if Heater is separate from Heat as just a template store that's fine, the problem is we are defining additional schema for Heater which may be useful to templates or users not interfacing with Heat via Heater. so when looking at the proposed schema maybe some of it goes in the template and then Heater is literally crud operations on templates? | 20:34 |
| tims | we can discuss on ml | 20:35 |
| sdake_ | tims details on ml I think are better | 20:35 |
| tims | got it | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | yeah and also the schema-for-packaging is contentious | 20:35 |
| stevebaker | tims: we can add things to the HOT schema. Most potential additions would probably be useful to things other than heater | 20:35 |
| stevebaker | #topic open discussion | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:36 | |
| pshchelo_ | sorry for offtopic above - couldn't wait.. | 20:36 |
| sdake_ | we have a [heat] tag on openstack-dev ml already? | 20:37 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: should I not have approved https://review.openstack.org/#/c/59577/5 ? | 20:37 |
| randallburt | pshchelo_: the way it generally works is we have [heat] prefix for our subjects | 20:37 |
| pshchelo_ | yes, but you can not subscribe to it | 20:37 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: or will the branch just be made off some commit that is already there? | 20:37 |
| randallburt | there's only one openstack-dev | 20:37 |
| pshchelo_ | only filtering | 20:37 |
| sdake_ | pschelo_ thats what mail filters were invented for :) | 20:37 |
| prasadv | can we discuss autoscaling api in this open discussion, I have a question on the load balancer member | 20:37 |
| shardy | pshchelo_: That's what the tags are for ;) | 20:37 |
| pshchelo_ | you can subscribe to specific topics on openstack-dev, but heat is not one of them | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: milestone-proposed is already branched, so we're open for features again I think | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | pshchelo_: contact Stefano about that, he can and should add it. | 20:38 |
| sdake_ | pschelo_ do you have a link as an example? | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: ok cool | 20:38 |
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| pshchelo_ | filters I know, but still receiving the whole list | 20:39 |
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| pshchelo_ | which is a bit overwhelming | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | prasadv: ask away | 20:39 |
| sdake_ | mark all read ftw ;) | 20:39 |
| prasadv | can the load balancer member be non IP based | 20:39 |
| pshchelo_ | that's a solution for now | 20:39 |
| prasadv | there are cases where the autoscaling can be done on a neutron port or mac address | 20:40 |
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| prasadv | in that case it would be a custom LB | 20:40 |
| prasadv | i mean non neutron LB | 20:40 |
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| stevebaker | prasadv: it seems reasonable for a member to be a port UUID instead of an IP | 20:41 |
| sdake_ | ideally we dont want to reimplement neutron's load balancer | 20:41 |
| * radix reads backlog | 20:41 | |
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| sdake_ | but if people use heat in that way, I don't think we should be in a position to stop them | 20:41 |
| prasadv | i assume one can configure any load balancer right? | 20:41 |
| pshchelo_ | when you log in to your mailman subscription manage page for openstack-dev | 20:41 |
| pshchelo_ | http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/openstack-dev | 20:41 |
| radix | prasadv: are you referring to the idea for a PoolMember resource? | 20:42 |
| prasadv | not just Lbaas | 20:42 |
| SpamapS | Right Heat should be enabling the Neutron LB the way Neutron users want it to work. So if it allows adding port UUID members, then Heat should do that. | 20:42 |
| sdake_ | pschelo_ contact the list manager at the bottom of the page - he can add heat there I suspect | 20:42 |
| prasadv | radix: yes | 20:42 |
| radix | prasadv: presumably PoolMember will match the pool member API in whatever it accepts | 20:42 |
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| pshchelo_ | sdake_: thanx | 20:42 |
| sdake_ | pschelo_ nobody here knows the list admin password :) | 20:43 |
| prasadv | radix: thanks | 20:43 |
| radix | prasadv: I don't know if that answers your question, I'm having a hard time understanding it | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | prasadv: how would a FloatingIP become a pool member? | 20:43 |
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| pshchelo_ | wasn't sure if I'm not missing smth | 20:44 |
| prasadv | stevebaker: I dont understand the question? Are you talking about non neutron LB? | 20:44 |
| prasadv | radix: Load balancing in some scenarios can be based on port, particularly related to service chaining | 20:45 |
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| stevebaker | prasadv: for neutron LB, should we support adding a FloatingIP to a LB pool? | 20:45 |
| prasadv | radix: autoscale is one important component of service chaining | 20:46 |
| adrian_otto | I think he might be asking if you could use a pool as an inventory of floating IPs | 20:46 |
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| prasadv | stevebaker: generally floating IP is external and it is mapped to internal IP addresses. One could get away with using internal IP addresses. I think | 20:47 |
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| stevebaker | I think what I'm referring to is this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1256836 | 20:47 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1256836 in heat "associate vip with floating ip" [Medium,Triaged] | 20:47 |
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| prasadv | stevebaker: I will look at the bug. Dont have the context on that | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | prasadv: ok, feel free to comment on it, especially if you think it is not valid | 20:48 |
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| stevebaker | anything else, should we wind up the meeting? | 20:48 |
| arbylee | anyone interested in talking a bit about the sync/convergence feature: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/stack-convergence? | 20:49 |
| sdake_ | lets wind up! | 20:49 |
| arbylee | we're working through initial implementations and have been trying to work through some scenarios: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-convergence | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | arbylee: it looks like zaneb has started working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/update-failure-recovery which may be tangentially related | 20:50 |
| randallburt | arbylee: is that a duplicate bp? I thought we discussed convergence at the summit, but it might have been a result of another bp. Just want to make sure they're linked. | 20:50 |
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| shardy | randallburt: not duplicate, but related I think | 20:51 |
| arbylee | we didn't see a blueprint raised out of the summit for sync/converge. There was one for auto-retry on create failures | 20:51 |
| shardy | one is about restarting a failed update, or updating from a failed state | 20:51 |
| shardy | rather than updating from a complete state and inspecting all the resource states | 20:52 |
| randallburt | shardy, arbylee ok, cool. just wanted to row the ducks if needed ;) | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | oops, bit late | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | howdy | 20:52 |
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| stevebaker | arbylee: would you like to target heat-convergence to icehouse-2 or icehouse-3? | 20:53 |
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| andersonvom | stevebaker: icehouse-2 sounds like a good target so far | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | done, and approved | 20:54 |
| randallburt | and IIRC, we discussed there being two separate operations 1. tell me what the differences are and 2. Make the stack match the template if it doesn't. | 20:54 |
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| stevebaker | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-summit-heat-convergence | 20:54 |
| arbylee | randallburt: right, our initial WIP commit produced a diff. there were concerns about the scalability of that operation though | 20:55 |
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| arbylee | the resulting vision seemed to be to provide the two actions: 1) make my local stack reflect the real world resources and 2) Make the stack match the template if it doesn't. | 20:55 |
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| randallburt | arbylee: ah, cool, though 1 sounds a little tricky when you get to instance configuration stuff | 20:56 |
| shardy | randallburt: we could have an update which just aligns the resource states with the state of the underlying resource | 20:56 |
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| randallburt | shardy: sounds simple enough in that case. | 20:57 |
| andersonvom | shardy: that's our current development right now | 20:57 |
| shardy | andersonvom: Cool, that's the first step IMO, then the next is to actually update the resource to e.g align from FAILED to COMPLETE state | 20:58 |
| shardy | the second step will probably be the difficult bit ;) | 20:58 |
| randallburt | 2 min | 20:58 |
| andersonvom | shardy: agree. and agree. =P | 20:58 |
| arbylee | shardy: we've been having some debate on that first bit even. | 20:58 |
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| randallburt | arbylee: sounds like a good ML discussion then ;) | 20:59 |
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| shardy | andersonvom: That second step may end up being related to the restart-from-failed work which zaneb is looking at | 20:59 |
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| arbylee | randallburt: then ML discussion it shall be | 21:00 |
| andersonvom | shardy, randallburt: true. we'll bring it up on the ML and sync up with zane to see what parts may be 'shared' | 21:00 |
| shardy | andersonvom: +1 | 21:00 |
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| asalkeld | endofmeeting? | 21:00 |
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| stevebaker | whoops | 21:00 |
| randallburt | seems so | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 4 21:00:52 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-12-04-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-12-04-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-12-04-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | thanks all | 21:01 |
| skraynev | thanks) | 21:01 |
| eglynn-afk | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 21:01:10 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn-afk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:01 |
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| dragondm | o/ | 21:01 |
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| ildikov | o/ | 21:01 |
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| eglynn-afk | I'm channelling jd__ again this week | 21:01 |
| herndon_ | o/ | 21:01 |
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| terriyu | o/ | 21:01 |
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| apmelton1 | o/ | 21:01 |
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| eglynn | anyone else lurking? | 21:01 |
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| * dragondm imagines eglynn-afk with turban and crystal ball... | 21:02 | |
| lsmola | hello | 21:02 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 21:02 |
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| eglynn | dragondm: LOL :) | 21:02 |
| sandywalsh_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| ildikov | dragondm: :) | 21:02 |
| eglynn | OK, start your engines ladies & gentlemen ... | 21:03 |
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| eglynn | #topic Icehouse-1 status | 21:03 |
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| eglynn | well, it's been released | 21:03 |
| eglynn | I'm y'all have seen the mail from ttx ... | 21:03 |
| eglynn | #link http://tarballs.openstack.org/ceilometer/ceilometer-milestone-proposed.tar.gz | 21:03 |
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| eglynn | not a huge amount in it TBH | 21:04 |
| eglynn | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/icehouse-1 | 21:04 |
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| eglynn | well, I guess it's not quite released as yet | 21:05 |
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| gordc | jumped the gun. | 21:05 |
| eglynn | milestone candidate for now | 21:05 |
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| eglynn | but I don't see anything else getting in at this stage | 21:05 |
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| eglynn | unless someone has something up their sleeve? | 21:06 |
| eglynn | so lets consider icehouse-1 done & dusted, or? | 21:06 |
| gordc | nothing from me. | 21:07 |
| eglynn | thing is ... | 21:07 |
| eglynn | a thin milestone-1 puts some pressure on us as the project team to deliver a chunky milestone-2 | 21:07 |
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| eglynn | #justsayin' | 21:07 |
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| llu-laptop | how about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58853/ for stable/havana? | 21:08 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: well the stable release cadence is independent of the main release cycle | 21:08 |
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| dragondm | Bunch of event stuff up for review. Presumably that'll land pretty quickly for i2, depending on reviews... | 21:08 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: but noted nonetheless | 21:08 |
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| eglynn | dragondm: yep, I'm thinking i2 for that | 21:09 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: yes, I'd love to have more eyes on that patch | 21:09 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: as I've got another patch proposed to stable that depends on it | 21:10 |
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| eglynn | (required for tempest to avoid a nasty intermittent integrity error ...) | 21:10 |
| eglynn | so +1s (even non-binding are welcome!) | 21:10 |
| * dragondm will review after meeting... | 21:11 | |
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| eglynn | dragondm: thanks! | 21:11 |
| eglynn | anything else on icehouse-1? | 21:11 |
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| gordc | has anyone seen this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1257908 when testing the concurrency patch? | 21:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1257908 in ceilometer "DBDeadlock exception in sql backend" [Undecided,New] | 21:11 |
| dragondm | Anything that will make tempest more stable is good... | 21:11 |
| eglynn | gordc: I have not seen that | 21:12 |
| gordc | ... or i should say with the concurrency patch... (i've no idea if they're related) | 21:12 |
| gordc | eglynn: ok, cool. i'll keep debugging what i see. | 21:12 |
| eglynn | gordc: smells like one of those Heisenbugs ;) | 21:13 |
| eglynn | ok, moving on ... | 21:13 |
| eglynn | #topic Tempest run errors | 21:13 |
| eglynn | so I've looked into this | 21:13 |
| eglynn | this is the issue raised by dkranz on the ML | 21:13 |
| eglynn | basically cielo is spewing unexpected ERRORs into the logs | 21:14 |
| eglynn | that causes Temptest CI runs to fail | 21:14 |
| eglynn | and hence the specific log messages have to be whitelisted | 21:14 |
| eglynn | whihc is badness | 21:14 |
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| eglynn | for obvious reasons ... | 21:15 |
| eglynn | at least some of the issue appears to be caused by a race with suspended instances | 21:15 |
| dkranz | eglynn: Hi. ping me again if you need me. | 21:15 |
| eglynn | instance is suspended | 21:15 |
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| eglynn | then compute agent pollster fails with a libvirt error | 21:16 |
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| eglynn | so basically the compute agent needs to made tolerant of these instance-state-dependent errors | 21:16 |
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| eglynn | I've captured some ideas in ... | 21:16 |
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| eglynn | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1257302 | 21:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1257302 in ceilometer "compute pollsters should tolerate libvirt errors reported when inspecting suspended instances" [Undecided,Triaged] | 21:17 |
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| eglynn | I'm gonna take that bug | 21:17 |
| eglynn | but in general, we really need to be more selective about log.error | 21:17 |
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| eglynn | sdague sent a good mail about this to the ML yesterday | 21:18 |
| eglynn | basically ERROR == "someone is woken up at 3am" | 21:18 |
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| eglynn | so lets start using ERROR severity a bit more sparingly. agreed? | 21:19 |
| herndon_ | ack! | 21:19 |
| DanD | seems like it should only be a unrecoverable error | 21:19 |
| eglynn | DanD: exactly! | 21:19 |
| llu-laptop | agreed | 21:19 |
| lsmola | +1 | 21:19 |
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| dragondm | +1 | 21:19 |
| ildikov | +1 | 21:19 |
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| eglynn | cool :) | 21:20 |
| eglynn | ok, moving onwards ... | 21:20 |
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| eglynn | #topic Help needed for fixing MySQL errors in unit tests | 21:20 |
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| eglynn | so this is interesting | 21:20 |
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| eglynn | thing is ... testing against sqlite is a little, well, non-challenging for our sqlalchemy driver | 21:21 |
| dragondm | Heh. | 21:21 |
| eglynn | sqlite doesn't do a bunch of stuff like foreign key constraints, unique constraints etc | 21:22 |
| eglynn | just looking at the migration scripts | 21:22 |
| eglynn | you'll see a bunch of special casing for sqlite | 21:22 |
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| herndon_ | Can we just ditch SQLite for good? no migrations, no support, nothing? | 21:23 |
| eglynn | generally smoothening the happy path and leaving potential issues to lurk | 21:23 |
| terriyu | do people actually use sqlite in real production environments? | 21:23 |
| eglynn | herndon_: I hear ya! | 21:23 |
| dragondm | I certainly hope not. | 21:23 |
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| eglynn | terriyu: no, yoyu'd be shot for doing that ;) | 21:23 |
| terriyu | sorry for the newb question, guys :) | 21:23 |
| dragondm | sqlite doesn't really do migrations altogether. | 21:23 |
| eglynn | dragondm: yep, so much of the migration logic is skipped, it's barely worth talking about | 21:24 |
| eglynn | problem is then nasty mysql-specific or postgres-specific bugs only rare their ugly heads in prod :( | 21:24 |
| dragondm | And even what it does is really a hack in sqlalchemy migrate to simulate schema change, etc. We switch to alembic, and that will go away too. | 21:25 |
| eglynn | (or in tempest if we're lucky!) | 21:25 |
| herndon_ | I thought the plan was to use mysql for unit tests, then we get rid of sqlite. Is that wrong? | 21:25 |
| eglynn | herndon_: exactly! | 21:25 |
| dragondm | eglynn: yah. Even mysql lets stuff slide that only postgres, or other bigger db's will catch. | 21:25 |
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| eglynn | herndon_: so jd__ has porposed a patch to do so ... | 21:25 |
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| dragondm | (i.e. like non-aggregate columns in an aggregate query) | 21:25 |
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| eglynn | but the feeling is that we'll have a deluge of bugs | 21:26 |
| herndon_ | I think I saw that, but it had a lot of test failures... anyway, I would love to help out in that effort. | 21:26 |
| eglynn | so the motivation for raising this in the meeting agenda to elicit support for fix that inevitable deluge of bugs | 21:26 |
| eglynn | herndon_: great! | 21:26 |
| DanD | so we agreed that the gate would be on MySQL only and other qualifications would need to be manually run didn't we? | 21:26 |
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| eglynn | DanD: that we did | 21:27 |
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| eglynn | but gate == "unit tests" or gate == "tempest tests" | 21:27 |
| dragondm | Yah, the bugs are in there already, we'll just be finding them. I'm all for that. | 21:27 |
| herndon_ | maybe we need a bug hunt day? | 21:27 |
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| eglynn | herndon_: a capital idea! | 21:28 |
| eglynn | a DB bug squashing day | 21:28 |
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| eglynn | we have peeps in our community with a specific slat towards DB/migration logic | 21:28 |
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| DanD | so is the plan to remove sqllite dependencies and change default to MySQL, then fix the resulting fallout? | 21:29 |
| eglynn | it would be great to leverage this in a formal bug squashing day | 21:29 |
| eglynn | DanD: yep, maybe keeping sqlite as a real lightweight option | 21:30 |
| eglynn | #action eglynn organize DB/migration bug squash day | 21:30 |
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| eglynn | (before i-2 goes out if poss) | 21:30 |
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| dragondm | sqlite would be usefull for tests above the db layer if we got the changes in to create the schema from the model layer, rather than migrations... | 21:31 |
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| dragondm | Other than that... Bleh. | 21:31 |
| eglynn | dragondm: true that | 21:31 |
| herndon_ | yeah, what's the status of that by the way? | 21:31 |
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| dragondm | ^ indeed, how is that? | 21:32 |
| eglynn | that I don't know, IIRC glance did it that way at one point | 21:32 |
| * eglynn will have to research that ... | 21:32 | |
| eglynn | may be some prior art we can steal | 21:33 |
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| eglynn | s/steal/pay homage to/ ;) | 21:33 |
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| eglynn | right-o, moving on with the agenda ... | 21:33 |
| eglynn | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 21:33 |
| eglynn | no need | 21:33 |
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| eglynn | not only have I done it once | 21:33 |
| eglynn | ... I did it twice this week | 21:34 |
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| eglynn | because of this regression ... | 21:34 |
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| eglynn | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo/+bug/1256883 | 21:34 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1256883 in oslo "cliutils passing sortby=None breaks older versions of prettytable" [Medium,Fix committed] | 21:34 |
| eglynn | so 1.0.8 is now out with the latest & greatest | 21:35 |
| thomasem | o/ | 21:35 |
| eglynn | I suspect next release will be herndon_ 's event API support | 21:35 |
| eglynn | and possibly group-by support too, perhaps? | 21:35 |
| eglynn | ... anyway that's fairly forward-looking | 21:36 |
| eglynn | k, let's move on ... | 21:36 |
| eglynn | #topic Open discussion | 21:36 |
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| lsmola | llu-laptop, how is the hardware to central agent integration going? | 21:37 |
| llu-laptop | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/support-resources-pipeline-item, still reviewing the patches | 21:37 |
| sandy__ | and how's the oslo.messaging integration going? | 21:38 |
| sandy__ | (I forget who was working on it) | 21:38 |
| herndon_ | i think it was silhet | 21:38 |
| eglynn | sandy__: it's sileht | 21:38 |
| eglynn | snap ;) | 21:38 |
| terriyu | I think sileht is away today | 21:38 |
| dragondm | Still wip, last I saw that... | 21:38 |
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| eglynn | sandy__: Mehdi pushed a WIP patch for review | 21:39 |
| lsmola | llu-laptop, excellent | 21:39 |
| llu-laptop | lsmola: after those patches landed, I'll rebase of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/monitoring-physical-devices on top of that | 21:39 |
| sandy__ | cool, thanks ... will look | 21:39 |
| dragondm | sandy__: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57457/ | 21:39 |
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| lsmola | llu-laptop, great, looking forward to that | 21:39 |
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| eglynn | ... k, methinks we may be done here tonight | 21:41 |
| eglynn | folks thank you for your time and attention! | 21:41 |
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| * eglynn is on a hair-trigger with hash-tag endmeeting ;) | 21:41 | |
| lsmola | thanks guys, good night | 21:41 |
| eglynn | ... anything else before we close? | 21:42 |
| sandy__ | night! | 21:42 |
| thomasem | HAve a great one! | 21:42 |
| sandy__ | thanks eglynn | 21:42 |
| terriyu | eglynn: nice of you to give a warning :) | 21:42 |
| dragondm | heh. | 21:42 |
| lsmola | :-) | 21:42 |
| terriyu | nope, nothing from me | 21:42 |
| eglynn | thanks folks, efficient & productive as always! :) | 21:42 |
| ildikov | thanks guys and eglynn, good night | 21:43 |
| ildikov | :) | 21:43 |
| eglynn | see y'all on IRC tmrw :) | 21:43 |
| eglynn | #endmeeting | 21:43 |
| terriyu | on #openstack-ceilometer ! | 21:43 |
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| ildikov | terriyu: +1 | 21:43 |
| eglynn | terriyu: well said! | 21:43 |
| terriyu | thanks everyone | 21:43 |
| dragondm | Yup, more pple need to switch channels | 21:43 |
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| eglynn | terriyu: that should have been an agenda item to be fair ... | 21:43 |
| terriyu | eglynn: +1 | 21:44 |
| eglynn | let's all do the switch, as our illustrious PTL is only to be found on #openstack-ceilometer these days ... | 21:44 |
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| dragondm | eglynn: btw, I don't think the bot noticed your #endmeeting... | 21:45 |
| llu-laptop | hello autobot, where's the log? | 21:45 |
| eglynn | #endmeeting ceilometer | 21:45 |
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| dragondm | eglynn changed his nick.... the bot isn't recognizing him. | 21:45 |
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| eglynn-afk | #endmeeting | 21:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 4 21:45:55 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-12-04-21.01.html | 21:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-12-04-21.01.txt | 21:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-12-04-21.01.log.html | 21:46 |
| eglynn-afk | \o/ | 21:46 |
| terriyu | well done eglynn-afk ! | 21:46 |
| eglynn-afk | good shout dragondm! :) | 21:46 |
| llu-laptop | magic nick name :) | 21:46 |
| eglynn-afk | 'night all! :) | 21:46 |
| dragondm | 'gnight all. | 21:46 |
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| sarob | reed you around? | 23:03 |
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| reed | sarob, yes | 23:04 |
| sarob | meeting today? | 23:04 |
| reed | we sure can :) | 23:04 |
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| sarob | reed wanted to riff on blueprint and training guides | 23:05 |
| reed | let's do it | 23:05 |
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| reed | #startmeeting openstack-community | 23:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 23:06:10 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is reed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 23:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 23:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_community' | 23:06 |
| sarob | so what do you think about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-community/+spec/foundation-participation-table | 23:06 |
| reed | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-community/+spec/foundation-participation-table | 23:07 |
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| * reed opening | 23:07 | |
| reed | right, I saw the wiki page too | 23:07 |
| sarob | reed: something good here? | 23:08 |
| reed | #topic tools to help newcomers understand the Foundation at a glance | 23:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tools to help newcomers understand the Foundation at a glance (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:08 | |
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| reed | sarob, indeed, lots of good stuff there | 23:08 |
| sarob | reed: cool | 23:08 |
| reed | the wiki page is not fully readable on my system though | 23:09 |
| reed | looks like a part of it is cut | 23:09 |
| sarob | i'd like to expand/include what board director responsibilities are | 23:09 |
| sarob | hmm, its big for sure | 23:09 |
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| sarob | im not a UI guy | 23:09 |
| reed | :) | 23:09 |
| * sarob just the facts | 23:09 | |
| reed | and tables in the wiki are just hard | 23:09 |
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| reed | anyway, one thing I'd like to understand better is the scope of the project | 23:10 |
| sarob | right, i gamed it through a gsheet | 23:10 |
| reed | where did the need come from? | 23:10 |
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| sarob | reed: as long as the info gets to eyeballs | 23:10 |
| sarob | reed: i will plant the flag of success in victory | 23:11 |
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| sarob | reed: we know this stuff cause we have been living the dream | 23:11 |
| sarob | reed: many do not know details like this and have no idea where to find them | 23:12 |
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| reed | sarob, I'm wondering whether it would make sense to create a page for each of the entity you describe in the table and group those pages into one master page | 23:12 |
| reed | nah, it would not be readable | 23:12 |
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| sarob | maybe mouse over | 23:13 |
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| reed | I'm afraid of the maintainability of a huge table | 23:13 |
| reed | on a wiki | 23:13 |
| sarob | me too | 23:13 |
| sarob | its just a starting place i think | 23:13 |
| reed | btw, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgwM400_8SNZdE9GVlZkOVdnWU5hTjJuWXk4NzN2dlE#gid=0 needs permission | 23:13 |
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| reed | i agree with you, it's a starting point | 23:13 |
| reed | maybe from there we can go and improve the pages of each item? | 23:14 |
| reed | for example, something I have noticed is that the individual program pages are not consistent | 23:14 |
| sarob | reed: your openstack.org account? | 23:14 |
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| reed | sarob, stefano@openstack.org | 23:15 |
| reed | or just make it public | 23:15 |
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| reed | since you link it from the public wiki anyway | 23:15 |
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| sarob | hmm, its on my yahoo-inc account, i can move it to my private | 23:15 |
| sarob | task for me | 23:15 |
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| reed | see for example: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova and https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon have different information | 23:16 |
| reed | not sure if the wiki pages can be 'templatized' | 23:16 |
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| reed | #idea can wiki pages carry templates? how can we make the individual program pages more coherent, carry the same sort of information? | 23:16 |
| sarob | reed: hmm, not sure, but is that this problem? | 23:17 |
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| reed | sarob, in a way I think it is | 23:17 |
| sarob | reed: we need someone like marketing to own communicating the table info | 23:17 |
| reed | sarob, if I understand the problem you're addressing is the lack of 'at a glance' useful information in lots of our pieces | 23:17 |
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| sarob | reed: well, a bit of it | 23:18 |
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| reed | sarob, expand then, I'm interested | 23:18 |
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| sarob | reed: for instance when a new corporation wants to join 'openstack' | 23:18 |
| sarob | reed: what are their options | 23:18 |
| sarob | reed: i can tell them, which i have been doing | 23:19 |
| sarob | reed: but we need a one stop digital place to start a new 'person' off at | 23:19 |
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| sarob | reed: participation table is a rough example | 23:19 |
| reed | got it... have you talked with Heidi about i? | 23:20 |
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| sarob | reed: at the summit yup | 23:20 |
| sarob | circling back to her and lauren this week | 23:20 |
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| reed | nice, I'm sure they may have more thoughts too | 23:21 |
| sarob | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahy1qS0O_cnldFdEcHNVdEJEN2tnTWNnZV9ZeThhZmc&usp=sharing | 23:22 |
| sarob | public now | 23:22 |
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| reed | cool | 23:23 |
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| sarob | reed: wiki updated | 23:23 |
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| sarob | reed: so lets call this 'blueprint' done and hand off to heidi | 23:24 |
| sarob | reed: we help as they need? | 23:24 |
| reed | sounds good to me | 23:24 |
| sarob | reed: cool | 23:24 |
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| sarob | reed: okay, my other burning thought | 23:25 |
| reed | she can pull from the wiki page and make a nicer looking html page on the site if needed | 23:25 |
| sarob | reed: certainly | 23:25 |
| sarob | reed: and i can help expand on some more thoughts when she is ready | 23:25 |
| sarob | reed: so the community training | 23:26 |
| reed | #topic community training | 23:26 |
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| sarob | reed: sweet | 23:26 |
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| sarob | reed: the first book is ready for a havana branch publish | 23:27 |
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| sarob | reed: its a rough draft, but ready enuf | 23:27 |
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| reed | I saw a message about that somewhere, cool | 23:27 |
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| reed | #info the first book is ready for a havana branch publish | 23:28 |
| sarob | #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/training-guides/content/bk001-associate-training-guide.html | 23:28 |
| reed | sweet | 23:28 |
| sarob | reed: do you have any thoughts on next steps? | 23:28 |
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| sarob | reed: im thinking publish link to training.openstack.org | 23:29 |
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| sarob | reed: plus aptira will be using most of the associate guide for their training classes | 23:29 |
| sarob | reed: anything else you think we should do? | 23:30 |
| reed | that might work, I think Heidi and Mark own that page | 23:30 |
| reed | blog post? | 23:30 |
| sarob | reed: hmm like | 23:30 |
| reed | i love blog posts :) they're my cheap way to do press releases | 23:30 |
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| reed | we may also want to ask teachers to look at it and let us know | 23:31 |
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| sarob | reed: hmm, right that reminds me | 23:31 |
| reed | my friend prof. Verma at SF State will be interested | 23:31 |
| reed | did I put you in touch with him already? | 23:32 |
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| sarob | reed: im really bad at collecting names and getting back to them, timely | 23:32 |
| sarob | reed: you did, i havent circled back with details yet | 23:32 |
| reed | ok, this may be an excuse | 23:32 |
| sarob | reed: of? | 23:32 |
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| reed | so, I think we should push a blog post out with it and I'll ping Sameer Verma right after, putting you in CC | 23:33 |
| sarob | reed: /me has he figured out that i dont know what i am doing? | 23:33 |
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| * sarob has he figured out that i dont know what i am doing? | 23:33 | |
| reed | we're all good at faking to know what we're doing :) | 23:33 |
| sarob | reed: hmm, yes | 23:33 |
| reed | what do you think should be in the blog post? | 23:34 |
| reed | anything you want to highlight? | 23:34 |
| sarob | reed: for training, its would be about | 23:34 |
| sarob | reed: community training purpose, history, next steps | 23:35 |
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| reed | are the quiz supposed to be in the manual? | 23:35 |
| sarob | reed: we should share a gsheet of universities that are openstack community interested | 23:36 |
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| sarob | reed: perhaps along with their interest and status | 23:36 |
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| reed | sarob, wiki page, better so we don't loose it | 23:36 |
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| reed | we used to have an openstack academia group, we may want to revive it | 23:37 |
| sarob | reed: well, i would want our new friends getting spammed is all | 23:37 |
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| sarob | reed: ohh, openstack academia , sarob like much | 23:37 |
| reed | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/AcademicInitiative | 23:37 |
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| sarob | reed: okay, righto | 23:38 |
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| reed | that effort kinda died down after an initial burst | 23:39 |
| sarob | reed: 87 members | 23:39 |
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| reed | there was one guy getting his phd who was active at the beginning and then it got lost | 23:39 |
| reed | maybe the scope was too broad? too shallow? not sure | 23:40 |
| sarob | reed: i think so | 23:40 |
| reed | things have changed though, we may have more luck now if we want to reboot it | 23:40 |
| sarob | reed: a list of interested people, their interest, and status | 23:40 |
| sarob | reed: maybe add events | 23:41 |
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| sarob | reed: other than that, the rest should be just openstack projects | 23:41 |
| sarob | reed: like regular people ;) | 23:41 |
| reed | we go back to the lack of visibility of people and members, activities | 23:42 |
| reed | events, etc | 23:42 |
| sarob | reed: hmm, right | 23:42 |
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| sarob | reed: launchpad sucks as a community tool | 23:42 |
| reed | and to the user groups portal ... which is lagging behind the openid project | 23:42 |
| sarob | reed: communication tool | 23:42 |
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| reed | ok, before I get depressed thinking about it, let's think about what we can do with what we have today | 23:43 |
| sarob | reed: well, we can steer students to user groups easy enough | 23:43 |
| sarob | reed: right you are | 23:43 |
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| reed | the blog post could link to the wiki page | 23:44 |
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| sarob | reed: we need a list of names, email, university, interest, status | 23:44 |
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| reed | since we moved all our lists off of launchpad, is it worth trying to create an openstack-academia list on lists.o.o? | 23:44 |
| sarob | reed: for unversity angle | 23:44 |
| reed | university as in 'teaching openstack' or cloudy topics, right? | 23:45 |
| reed | not 'researching cloud stuff' | 23:45 |
| sarob | reed: sure, buuuut, we need to add those important attributes | 23:45 |
| sarob | reed: right, like teaching openstack | 23:45 |
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| reed | ok, we know of a few universities that teach cloud using openstack | 23:46 |
| sarob | reed: the blog post can certainly request unversity prof, grads to reach out | 23:46 |
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| sarob | reed: other focus is user group education | 23:47 |
| reed | shall we ask them to subscribe to a mlist and introduce themselves? | 23:47 |
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| reed | or setup a google form? | 23:47 |
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| sarob | reed: if we could add the unversity, interest, status attributes to foundation members | 23:48 |
| reed | to ask them to answer a few questions? | 23:48 |
| sarob | reed: is that possible today? | 23:48 |
| sarob | reed: google form could def work | 23:48 |
| reed | not without a massive investment on my or Tom's side to convince the website developers to do things | 23:48 |
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| sarob | reed: okay np, google form is a good start | 23:49 |
| reed | so we could ask them there: | 23:49 |
| sarob | reed: it will dump into a gsheet, so that would be very useful | 23:49 |
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| reed | university/affiliation, interest... what else? | 23:50 |
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| sarob | reed: status of work with openstack | 23:50 |
| reed | a Y/N flag like 'Would you like to be contacted by members of the community with additional questions'? | 23:50 |
| reed | email ... | 23:50 |
| sarob | reed: thats good | 23:51 |
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| reed | that should be a good way to get started | 23:51 |
| sarob | reed: some info about the community channel and mailling list | 23:51 |
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| reed | what do you mean? | 23:51 |
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| sarob | reed: provide a bit of openstack community info on the form in case it gets shared separate from the blog post | 23:52 |
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| reed | gotcha | 23:53 |
| sarob | reed: /me i feel productive | 23:53 |
| reed | #action write a blog post to announce the first release of training material | 23:53 |
| sarob | reed: my thoughts betray me | 23:53 |
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| reed | #action prepare a google form with intro to community and questions for teachers/profs about university/affiliation, interest, status of work with openstack, email, a Y/N flag like 'Would you like to be contacted by members of the community with additional questions' | 23:54 |
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| sarob | reed: if you can approve the blueprint so others understand we agree | 23:55 |
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| reed | #action reed to send a draft of the blog post to the community list | 23:56 |
| reed | sarob, which bp exactly? | 23:56 |
| sarob | reed: id like to update the https://launchpad.net/~openstack-academia and http://wiki.openstack.org/AcademicInitiative pages as well | 23:56 |
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| reed | sarob, yeah... I think we should deprecate the launchpad team | 23:57 |
| sarob | reed: the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-community/+spec/foundation-participation-table | 23:57 |
| reed | either create a new mlist or use the community list (low enough traffic, I think) | 23:57 |
| sarob | reed: new mlist def | 23:57 |
| reed | we could treat the academia circle as a Special Interest Group under the user groups umbrella | 23:58 |
| sarob | reed: i like that | 23:58 |
| reed | it's a conversation to have with fifieldt too | 23:58 |
| sarob | reed: cause im on a mission to create one new user group per quarter | 23:58 |
| sarob | reed: at universities | 23:59 |
| fifieldt | hi | 23:59 |
| sarob | fifieldt and there you are | 23:59 |
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