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| Daisy | Let's start. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Daisy | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 00:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 00:00:34 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 00:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 00:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 00:00 |
| Daisy | Good morning/evening, everyone. | 00:00 |
| Daisy | Welcome to I18n meeting. | 00:01 |
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| Daisy | We have ujuc, macjack, and zero00072. | 00:01 |
| macjack | Good morning everyone | 00:01 |
| ujuc | Hi :) | 00:01 |
| Daisy | Do we have anybody else ? | 00:01 |
| Daisy | No? | 00:01 |
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| Daisy | OK, people may join us in the meeting. | 00:02 |
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| Daisy | #topic Horizon translation update | 00:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon translation update (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:02 | |
| Daisy | The first stable Havana update (2013.2.1) is plalned in early Dec. Julie and Akihiro suggested to include Horizon improved translation. | 00:02 |
| amotoki | hi, i need to leave soon but can join for a while. | 00:02 |
| Daisy | Great, amotoki! | 00:03 |
| Daisy | We need you in the early part. | 00:03 |
| Daisy | I agree with Julie and Akihiro. | 00:03 |
| Daisy | So let's set a deadline and if any languages team have translation update, please send email to mailing list and Akihiro will help to update. | 00:03 |
| Daisy | amotoki: do you know the exact date of Havana (2013.2.1)? | 00:04 |
| ujuc | OK :) | 00:04 |
| amotoki | i haven't checked the detail date. perhaps we can check stable-maint list to knwo it. | 00:04 |
| Daisy | amotoki: do you have any suggestions to the deadline of translation update? | 00:04 |
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| Daisy | amotoki: can you help to check the exact date? | 00:04 |
| amotoki | i think importing will be done just before freeze. | 00:05 |
| amotoki | Daisy: yeah. | 00:05 |
| Daisy | Thanks. amotoki. | 00:05 |
| Daisy | Another question for you, amotoki. | 00:05 |
| Daisy | Is the translation verification test website still runnable or not ? | 00:05 |
| amotoki | it is still running but automated import is stopped now. | 00:06 |
| amotoki | i usually use it for demo :-) | 00:06 |
| Daisy | are you going to start the automation import ? | 00:06 |
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| amotoki | can resume it if needed | 00:06 |
| Daisy | ok. Thanks. | 00:07 |
| Daisy | #action amotoki to check the exact freeze date of Havana (2013.2.1) and suggest the last deadline to the mailing list. | 00:07 |
| amotoki | i have a question about transifex resource: horizon vs horizon_havana. | 00:07 |
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| Daisy | Yes, i'm going to address this issue now. | 00:07 |
| Daisy | We have finished Havana translation. And Horzion is moving to Icehouse. I will prefer to copy the existing resources to Icehouse version, and rename the existing resource with a Havana suffix. Then we will keep both Havana and Icehouse version in Transifex, with different suffix. | 00:08 |
| Daisy | How do you think, amotoki ? | 00:08 |
| amotoki | sounds nice. | 00:08 |
| Daisy | Great. so I will do it after the meeting. | 00:08 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to rename exisiting resources in Horizon with a Havana suffix. | 00:09 |
| amotoki | as julie said, some string updates are under review. I will update POT file to transifex (havana) directly | 00:09 |
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| Daisy | Nice, amotoki. | 00:09 |
| Daisy | When you are done, don't forget to send a mail to ML. | 00:10 |
| amotoki | sure | 00:10 |
| Daisy | anything do you want to talk in the first topic: Horizon stable release? | 00:10 |
| Daisy | If no, we will move to next topic. | 00:10 |
| amotoki | nothing from me. | 00:10 |
| Daisy | #topic I18n team structure discussion | 00:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "I18n team structure discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:11 | |
| Daisy | The mission of our team, as written in wiki, is | 00:11 |
| Daisy | to make OpenStack ubiquitously accessible to people of all language backgrounds, by providing a framework to create high quality translations, recruiting contributors and actively managing and planning the translation process. | 00:11 |
| Daisy | The explaination in "by providing..." is much focus on translation. But I18n is more than translation. | 00:11 |
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| Daisy | Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization to get the explaination of I18n and L10n. | 00:12 |
| Daisy | In my mind, I18n team will cover more than translation, for example, in design summit, we proposed two blue prints: | 00:12 |
| Daisy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-id | 00:12 |
| Daisy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/separate-translation-decorators | 00:12 |
| Daisy | They are code refactors, but they are much related with I18n and L10n. | 00:12 |
| amotoki | sorry for interrupt. | 00:12 |
| amotoki | i need to leave now. i would like to know what and how i should do for ja doc index page (one of action items). let me know after the meeting. | 00:12 |
| amotoki | bye | 00:13 |
| Daisy | OK. I will send you email. Bye. | 00:13 |
| Daisy | By studying the I18n teams of other open source communities, I think, we can rename our translation team to Localization team. Localization team will reponsible for openstack localization, including the translation. | 00:13 |
| ujuc | bye :) | 00:13 |
| Daisy | Two examples: https://l10n.gnome.org/teams/ and http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ | 00:13 |
| Daisy | Any comments, till now? | 00:14 |
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| Daisy | Then we will have I18n core team and L10n sub-teams. | 00:15 |
| Daisy | I18n core team will include the leaders (or the coordinators) in L10n sub-teams and developers who would like to contribute to OpenStack I18n features. | 00:15 |
| zero00072 | I think it is right. | 00:15 |
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| Daisy | Thanks, zero00072 | 00:15 |
| Daisy | L10n team includes leaders (or coordinators), translators, developers who would like to localize openstack, and even testers. | 00:15 |
| ujuc | crate new loco tem? | 00:15 |
| Daisy | Not new, I think. Just rename the translation team to loco team. | 00:15 |
| ujuc | Ok :) | 00:16 |
| macjack | good idea, Daisy | 00:16 |
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| laserjetyang | but it is not only translation, and also need to approach different component to make sure they are enabled with globalization? | 00:16 |
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| Daisy | Now most members in L10n team are translators. That's OK. We can give time for the team to grow. | 00:16 |
| Daisy | Yes, laserjetyang. | 00:17 |
| Daisy | Not only translation. | 00:17 |
| zero00072 | Doing translation is something l10n team's work. | 00:17 |
| zero00072 | I have seem KDE i18n project renamed to l10n project in Debian. | 00:17 |
| Daisy | Anyway, it's my proposal. | 00:17 |
| Daisy | I think, we need broad discussion in the mailing list, not only i18n mailing list but also dev mailing list to see people's opinions. | 00:18 |
| Daisy | If we only do translation, that's much easier. | 00:18 |
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| Daisy | If we want to do code refactor, we need support of dev mailing list. | 00:18 |
| laserjetyang | agree, | 00:19 |
| laserjetyang | but with the push from i18n point of view, it shoud be easier to make it happen | 00:19 |
| Daisy | I'd like to understand how much Python knowledges do you have and if you would like to contribute code. Just a small survey. | 00:19 |
| Daisy | If we say: we want to do code refactor, surely we need people who can do this job. | 00:20 |
| Daisy | ujuc: can you write python program? | 00:20 |
| Daisy | how about you, macjack and zero00072? | 00:20 |
| ujuc | litle :) | 00:20 |
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| Daisy | Good, ujuc. | 00:20 |
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| zero00072 | I love Ruby than Python. Haha | 00:21 |
| ujuc | KKK | 00:21 |
| ujuc | :)) | 00:21 |
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| Daisy | :)). They are similar, zero00072. | 00:21 |
| zero00072 | Anyway, some Python Code I can read and write. | 00:21 |
| Daisy | Nice, zero00072. | 00:21 |
| macjack | Daisy python is awesom but did do that for a whilw | 00:22 |
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| Daisy | I believe, we will have very simple development jobs in I18n areas. | 00:22 |
| Daisy | At that time, we can have a try. | 00:22 |
| macjack | Daisy: used to try to deep dive into Django code ever | 00:22 |
| Daisy | Thanks, macjack. Very good. | 00:23 |
| Daisy | I know a little Python too, I can write simple program. My background is in Java. | 00:23 |
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| Daisy | ok. So I will move this discussion to the mailing list. | 00:23 |
| Daisy | #topic Blueprints & bugs tracking | 00:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints & bugs tracking (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:24 | |
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| Daisy | We can use Launchpad to track the bugs and blueprints. | 00:24 |
| Daisy | My question is what to track? | 00:24 |
| Daisy | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n | 00:24 |
| Daisy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n | 00:24 |
| fifieldt | (sorry I'm late) | 00:24 |
| Daisy | Welcome, fifieldt. | 00:24 |
| Daisy | As to the bug, we can track our translation errors reported by users. | 00:25 |
| Daisy | Anything else can we track in Launchpad openstack-i18n? | 00:25 |
| macjack | great to see you fifieldt :) | 00:26 |
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| zero00072 | So, we need to add a button to Horizon so that any one can reatch the tracking system? | 00:26 |
| Daisy | Most of code errors in I18n areas are tracking in their own project in Launchpad. | 00:26 |
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| Daisy | zero00072, I wonder if Horizon team agree. I suggest you to discuss with Akihiro Motoki and Julie Pichon. | 00:27 |
| Daisy | At least, we need a place to allow our users to report errors to us. | 00:28 |
| Daisy | We can write the link in our wiki. | 00:28 |
| zero00072 | Agree. | 00:28 |
| Daisy | But what do we want to track in blueprints? | 00:28 |
| Daisy | I have no idea now. | 00:28 |
| ujuc | Ok :) | 00:28 |
| laserjetyang | why not? | 00:29 |
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| Daisy | laserjetyang, what do you mean? | 00:29 |
| laserjetyang | I mean, why not track in blueprints? | 00:29 |
| Daisy | what should we track, I mean? | 00:29 |
| Daisy | Yes, you are right, laserjetyang. | 00:30 |
| laserjetyang | it should be similar to bug, to me most of the blueprints are to solve bugs | 00:30 |
| fifieldt | I guess that most of our 'blueprint'-style things are about changes in the infrastructure ... | 00:30 |
| Daisy | We can track our improvements in the translation platform, like the staging server for translate documents. | 00:30 |
| Daisy | Right, fifieldt | 00:30 |
| Daisy | That's the problem. | 00:30 |
| fifieldt | so the question is whether we track it in openstack-ci | 00:30 |
| fifieldt | or in openstack-i18n | 00:30 |
| laserjetyang | ok, get your point | 00:31 |
| fifieldt | given we need review assistance from #openstack-infra | 00:31 |
| fifieldt | should we ask their preference? | 00:31 |
| Daisy | good idea, fifieldt. | 00:31 |
| Daisy | Let me do it. | 00:31 |
| Daisy | I guess they would like to track in openstack-ci. | 00:31 |
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| Daisy | I don't know. Let me try. | 00:32 |
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| fifieldt | we could also create blueprints in both places | 00:32 |
| fifieldt | since they are different audiences | 00:32 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to ask openstack-ci whether they would like to track I18n blueprints in openstack-i18n. | 00:32 |
| fifieldt | i18n people could request features by making the blueprints in openstack-i18n | 00:32 |
| ujuc | :) | 00:32 |
| fifieldt | and then blueprints in openstack-ci could be created | 00:33 |
| * fifieldt shrugs | 00:33 | |
| Daisy | Then we bypass them to different projects? | 00:33 |
| fifieldt | actually | 00:33 |
| Daisy | then we pass them to different projects. | 00:33 |
| fifieldt | we also have a 3rd option | 00:33 |
| fifieldt | we could be testers of the new "Storyboard" tool | 00:33 |
| fifieldt | which will replace launchpad | 00:33 |
| fifieldt | for OpenStack | 00:33 |
| fifieldt | in the future | 00:33 |
| Daisy | we could. what's the benifit? | 00:34 |
| fifieldt | better interface | 00:34 |
| fifieldt | easier to use | 00:34 |
| fifieldt | we could help drive the development & adoption | 00:34 |
| Daisy | do they call for tester now? | 00:34 |
| fifieldt | they have asked for "guinea pigs" | 00:34 |
| fifieldt | so far UX team has consented to join | 00:35 |
| Daisy | Then we could. | 00:35 |
| fifieldt | but the software is still in early stage development | 00:35 |
| macjack | Storyboard sounds interesting!! | 00:35 |
| ujuc | lol | 00:35 |
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| Daisy | I18n team need to take a look and then make decision. | 00:35 |
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| fifieldt | https://github.com/openstack-infra/storyboard is the code so far | 00:36 |
| Daisy | where is the live website? | 00:36 |
| fifieldt | it is still being turned on, I think | 00:36 |
| Daisy | ok. | 00:36 |
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| Daisy | Then we take a look at first, try it, and then we make decision. | 00:37 |
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| laserjetyang | it is still poc? | 00:37 |
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| Daisy | we move to next topic. | 00:38 |
| Daisy | #topic Reorganize wiki page | 00:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reorganize wiki page (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:38 | |
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| Daisy | We need to improve our wiki page, to make it better organized. | 00:39 |
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| fifieldt | +1 | 00:39 |
| Daisy | I want to clearly list I18n team and L10n teams, and localize L10n team. | 00:39 |
| Daisy | Localize the page of L10n teams. | 00:39 |
| Daisy | For example, we will have native language page for Taiwan L10n team. | 00:40 |
| Daisy | And we provide a link to it in the main page of I18n team. | 00:40 |
| Daisy | Any comments? | 00:40 |
| zero00072 | It's right, a native language page. | 00:41 |
| macjack | Daisy great! great! | 00:41 |
| Daisy | thanks, zero00072 and macjack. | 00:41 |
| Daisy | Clearly guide people how to join and how to contribute, that's our goal. | 00:42 |
| Daisy | Who would like to take this job? | 00:42 |
| Daisy | Who want to work together with me to rre-organize our wiki pages? | 00:42 |
| macjack | o/ me me, I can do that | 00:43 |
| Daisy | Great, macjack. | 00:43 |
| ujuc | :) | 00:43 |
| macjack | pick it up | 00:43 |
| zero00072 | I also can. | 00:43 |
| Daisy | #action macjack, zero00072, and Daisy to re-organize the wiki page. | 00:43 |
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| Daisy | macjack and zero00072, you can create a new wiki page to make the draft, then people can give suggestions. The current wiki page won't be affected. | 00:44 |
| Daisy | Thank you. | 00:44 |
| laserjetyang | in language other than english? | 00:44 |
| Daisy | yes, we provide local language page for L10n teams. | 00:45 |
| laserjetyang | great | 00:45 |
| Daisy | ok, move to next | 00:45 |
| Daisy | #topic Plans in Icehouse cycle | 00:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plans in Icehouse cycle (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:45 | |
| macjack | Daisy: glad to do so | 00:45 |
| Daisy | We need to make a plan for what we want to do in Icehouse. | 00:46 |
| Daisy | firstly, document translation. | 00:46 |
| Daisy | Again, operation guide translation. | 00:46 |
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| ujuc | operation guid version folsom? or havana? | 00:47 |
| Daisy | Good question. | 00:47 |
| Daisy | I think, they only have folsom, right? | 00:47 |
| ujuc | um | 00:47 |
| Daisy | Does operation guide have havana version? | 00:47 |
| Daisy | ujuc, you don't like it? | 00:47 |
| Daisy | Anne Gentle told me this year: operation guide is the top priority | 00:48 |
| ujuc | noting :) | 00:48 |
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| Daisy | operation guide is a stable document. | 00:48 |
| ujuc | ok :) | 00:48 |
| Daisy | Not much changes at all. | 00:48 |
| fifieldt | for now | 00:49 |
| fifieldt | so, there is plan to make a havana version | 00:49 |
| Daisy | fifieldt: will there be many changes? | 00:49 |
| laserjetyang | there are many new components since Folsom | 00:50 |
| laserjetyang | I think there should be new changes | 00:50 |
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| fifieldt | we don't know yet Daisy | 00:50 |
| Daisy | Based on icehouse release schedule: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 00:50 |
| fifieldt | it's going to take some effort event to say what needs to be updated | 00:50 |
| zero00072 | Which team build the guide documents? | 00:51 |
| Daisy | String frozen is March 6th. | 00:51 |
| Daisy | I think we need to start the message translation one month before March 6th, in order to catch the release date. | 00:51 |
| Daisy | So before Feb 6th, we can do document translation. | 00:52 |
| Daisy | We can have 1 document translated from now to Feb 6th. | 00:52 |
| ujuc | OK :)) | 00:52 |
| zero00072 | I think we need a dictionary site to save words and compare the words before we can translate the documents. | 00:53 |
| Daisy | zero00072: it's doc team, I think. | 00:53 |
| Daisy | Yes, we definitely need one. | 00:53 |
| Daisy | Transifex has a place to save glossary. | 00:53 |
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| Daisy | We have imported openstack glossary into Transifex. | 00:54 |
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| Daisy | Besides glossary, we also need to summarize many common words too. | 00:54 |
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| Daisy | I believe there are some tools which can do the terminologies extraction. | 00:54 |
| Daisy | zero00072: can you take a look at the terminology extraction tool and try it ? | 00:55 |
| Daisy | We can use the tool to extract common words, and then we translate them at first. | 00:55 |
| zero00072 | OK, I will take a try. | 00:55 |
| Daisy | Thanks, zero00072. | 00:55 |
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| Daisy | #action zero00072 to take a look at term extract tool. | 00:56 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to work with Anne Gentle to check which document is better to start translation. | 00:56 |
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| Daisy | OK. I have done what I want to talk. | 00:56 |
| Daisy | Move to next topic | 00:57 |
| Daisy | #topic Open discussion | 00:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:57 | |
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| Daisy | Anything you want to talk ? | 00:57 |
| Daisy | No? | 00:58 |
| ujuc | Me, No~~o :) | 00:58 |
| zero00072 | I have no any disscussions. | 00:58 |
| Daisy | OK. | 00:58 |
| Daisy | We are just in time. | 00:58 |
| macjack | no | 00:58 |
| Daisy | #endmeeting | 00:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 00:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 00:59:02 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 00:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-11-21-00.00.html | 00:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-11-21-00.00.txt | 00:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-11-21-00.00.log.html | 00:59 |
| Daisy | Thank you all for attending. | 00:59 |
| Daisy | We have discussed so many things. | 00:59 |
| zero00072 | Thanks! | 00:59 |
| ujuc | Thanks :) | 00:59 |
| macjack | Thanks everyone | 00:59 |
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| enikanorov | neutron lbaas subteam meeting in 2 minutes | 13:58 |
| iwamoto | hi | 13:59 |
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| enikanorov | hi | 14:00 |
| avishayb | hi | 14:00 |
| s3wong | Hello | 14:00 |
| Vijay_ | hi | 14:00 |
| enikanorov | #startmeeting Neutron LBaaS | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 14:00:45 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| evgenyf | Hi All | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:00 |
| obondarev | Hi | 14:00 |
| enikanorov | ok, lets start with announcements | 14:01 |
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| enikanorov | #topic announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)" | 14:01 | |
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| enikanorov | on latest neutron team meeting the following project plan was proposed: | 14:02 |
| enikanorov | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/NeutronIcehouseProjectPlan | 14:02 |
| enikanorov | you can see that action items for our subteam go under #8 | 14:02 |
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| enikanorov | but for the core team the first 5 items are prioritized | 14:03 |
| Vijay_ | " A single VIP can have services running on different TCP ports backed by different pools." is this for L7 policy support | 14:04 |
| enikanorov | others are mostly new features and are pushed to I2 and I3 milestones | 14:04 |
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| samuelbercovici | Vijay_, no | 14:05 |
| enikanorov | Vijay_: not exactly, but it doesn't matter in this list since it is very brief and only emphasize that new lbaas features will not be on top of the core team's list for another 2 milestones at least | 14:05 |
| s3wong | enikanorov: so the three items on the list for LBaaS are for icehouse-1? | 14:06 |
| enikanorov | so actually any major feature published on gerrit will get -2 until issues with stability and test coverage of neutron are resolved | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov | s3wong: no, realistically speaking, they are for I-3 | 14:06 |
| enikanorov | so I'd like to set correct expectations here | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov | we have plenty of time to discuss, design and implement the features | 14:07 |
| enikanorov | and it would be great if we could participate in ongoing qa/testing effort | 14:08 |
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| enikanorov | any questions on project plan? | 14:08 |
| Vijay_ | will there be enough time for driver changes to get in after the LBaaS plugin changes? | 14:08 |
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| samuelbercovici | I think this is ok, as realisticaly, SSL, L7Policy and loadbalanciner features would need some time to cook. | 14:08 |
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| samuelbercovici | Vijay_, what do you mean "LBaaS plugin changes"? | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | Vijay_: i can't predict. But that will totally be the matter of good efforts on test coverage | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | the better test we'll have, more confidence our code will make in core reviewers | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | *tests | 14:09 |
| iwamoto | on launchpad.net, BP lbaas-service-instance depends on BP lbaas-multiple-vips-per-pool. is this correct? | 14:10 |
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| enikanorov | no, actually i was going to swap the order | 14:10 |
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| enikanorov | since i realized that doing it in opposite order would be simpler and require less changes | 14:10 |
| enikanorov | so anyway | 14:11 |
| iwamoto | will lbaas-service-instance be on I-2? | 14:11 |
| Vijay_ | Samuel: By LBaaS plugin changes: I meant the feature changes that will be checked in as part of LBaaS plugin. | 14:12 |
| enikanorov | iwamoto: I hope so, anyway i'm going to publish the implementation on gerrit in I-1 | 14:12 |
| enikanorov | if it gets merged in I-2 it would be greate | 14:12 |
| samuelbercovici | Vijay_, ok, thanks. | 14:12 |
| iwamoto | i see | 14:12 |
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| enikanorov | I suggest we all work on our features, publish the code and try to collaborate (by, say, rebasing our patches on one another, if they are dependent) | 14:13 |
| enikanorov | but any suggestions/ideas/help on qa front will be appreciated | 14:13 |
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| enikanorov | ok, lets move to the next topic | 14:14 |
| enikanorov | #topic QA and third party testing | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QA and third party testing (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)" | 14:14 | |
| enikanorov | obondarev is working on tempest scenario tests for lbaas | 14:14 |
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| enikanorov | obondarev: would you like to give an update? | 14:14 |
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| obondarev | sure | 14:16 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: i expect that his tests will be used by all lbaas driver, correct? | 14:16 |
| obondarev | sorry for the delay | 14:16 |
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| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: correct | 14:16 |
| samuelbercovici | great! | 14:16 |
| obondarev | so work in progress yet | 14:16 |
| samuelbercovici | is there a bp for this? | 14:16 |
| obondarev | need to finish the basic scenario test | 14:16 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: but that doesn't mean you should not have your driver-specific tests! :) | 14:16 |
| obondarev | samuelbercovici: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/lbaas-scenario-tests | 14:17 |
| obondarev | then can think on some more scenarios | 14:17 |
| samuelbercovici | we will, but i think that the shared tests should cover as much as possible. | 14:18 |
| enikanorov | yeah, i think some kind of simple testplan would be helpfull. | 14:18 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: right | 14:18 |
| enikanorov | next week i'm going to dive into tempest as well | 14:18 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: any progress with setting up third-party testing in your lab? | 14:19 |
| samuelbercovici | also, what we had in the current tests, it that the test scenario is exactly the same but the resultin checks are different for each driver | 14:19 |
| samuelbercovici | this resulted that we had to copy all test and modify | 14:19 |
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| samuelbercovici | this also means that if something is modified in the test, it needs to be copied to all drivers | 14:20 |
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| obondarev | samuelbercovici: which tests do you mean as current? | 14:20 |
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| samuelbercovici | it would be nice if we can find a way to reuse the work of oleg without copy | 14:20 |
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| samuelbercovici | i mean the unit tests | 14:20 |
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| obondarev | this is a bit different topic I guess | 14:21 |
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| obondarev | as we're now discussing tempest tests | 14:21 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: so what's with integrating with smokestack? | 14:22 |
| avishayb | About the temest - we are currently try to see what it takes. hope to have somethin until Icehouse 1 | 14:22 |
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| samuelbercovici | obondarev: i understnad. just wishing the wokr you do will be reusable, not like the ut. | 14:22 |
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| obondarev | samuelbercovici: yeah | 14:22 |
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| enikanorov | the uts are really different because the way driver communicase requires different mocks at least | 14:23 |
| enikanorov | *communicates | 14:23 |
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| samuelbercovici | ok. i think that after you commit ur 1st code we can discuss further | 14:24 |
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| enikanorov | in fact tempest already have API tests for lbaas | 14:25 |
| enikanorov | which in fact test basic operations | 14:25 |
| enikanorov | it's enough to test how integration with smoke stack could work | 14:25 |
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| avishayb | OK - I will look at it soon | 14:26 |
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| enikanorov | any questions on testing? | 14:26 |
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| enikanorov | ok, lets move on | 14:28 |
| enikanorov | #topic feature discussion | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "feature discussion (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)" | 14:28 | |
| enikanorov | #topic features discussion | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "features discussion (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)" | 14:28 | |
| enikanorov | I'll start with loadbalancer instance | 14:28 |
| enikanorov | we had discussion with samuelbercovici | 14:28 |
| enikanorov | I also got some opinions from tempest folks | 14:28 |
| enikanorov | whos tests i was going to break with this :) | 14:29 |
| enikanorov | so the common opinion is to preserve API compatibility, so scenarios for the previos API would work | 14:29 |
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| enikanorov | i think it's achievable by allowing user/client to start creating configuration from the pool | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | as it is right now | 14:30 |
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| enikanorov | so the instance will be created for the pool automatically | 14:30 |
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| enikanorov | that's the general plan | 14:31 |
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| Vijay_ | ok, for each pool that is created without the loadbalancerinstance id, a loadbalance instance will be created? | 14:31 |
| enikanorov | Vijay_: correct | 14:31 |
| s3wong | enikanorov: so in this case, the haproxy instance will be launched when a pool is created? | 14:32 |
| obondarev | but multiple vips per pool will change things, right? | 14:32 |
| enikanorov | s3wong: no, for haproxy it will also remain as it is today | 14:32 |
| enikanorov | haproxy is pawned when vip is attached to the pool | 14:32 |
| enikanorov | obondarev: multiple vips/pools could be just attached to existing instance | 14:32 |
| enikanorov | if vip is concerned then you either attach it to the pool or to the instance | 14:33 |
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| enikanorov | if you attach it to the pool, instance id is deduced from the pool | 14:33 |
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| obondarev | ok, got it | 14:34 |
| Vijay_ | if poolid is globally unique and if it is not per loadbalancer then it should be fine. | 14:34 |
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| enikanorov | Vijay_: right | 14:35 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: do you have questions on loadbalancer instance? | 14:35 |
| Vijay_ | what is the plan for rest of the entities? | 14:35 |
| iwamoto | I think API spec should be written and reviewed | 14:35 |
| Vijay_ | new entities like l7 policy and l7rule | 14:36 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: i would have prefered what we discussed together. anyway, when do u plan to modify your wiki, i will then give it further thought | 14:36 |
| enikanorov | iwamoto: I have wiki page on this feature, i'll add API there | 14:36 |
| Vijay_ | should that also be tied to loadbalancer instance | 14:36 |
| enikanorov | Vijay_: let's discuss it next | 14:36 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: ok | 14:36 |
| avishayb | I have published a wiki page on l7 switching (WIP) | 14:37 |
| avishayb | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/l7 | 14:38 |
| enikanorov | I have general concern on L7 feature: | 14:38 |
| avishayb | got some feedback from Vijay | 14:38 |
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| enikanorov | it's implementation depends on multiple pool per vipm which in turn depend on the instance | 14:39 |
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| enikanorov | so my question would be how are you planning to go with implementation? | 14:39 |
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| avishayb | I do not think it depends on the other tasks you mentioned. | 14:40 |
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| enikanorov | ok, but how do you plan to test it? | 14:40 |
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| enikanorov | if multiple pools are not there | 14:41 |
| avishayb | I will add more details to the wiki page and than it may be clear why it is a standalone feature | 14:41 |
| enikanorov | ok, good | 14:41 |
| Vijay_ | when will it be sent to the driver? Is it taking the monitoring approach? | 14:41 |
| avishayb | can you please elaborate about "how do you plan to test it?" | 14:41 |
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| enikanorov | i mean it seems that in order to do end-to-end testing you need to get actual schema with m:n vip-pool relation ship | 14:42 |
| enikanorov | which is a complex change | 14:42 |
| avishayb | good point. I will address it on the wiki page | 14:42 |
| enikanorov | ok | 14:42 |
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| avishayb | Vijay_ - same for you.. I will address it in the wiki :-) | 14:43 |
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| enikanorov | ok, any updates on SSL termination feature? | 14:44 |
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| Vijay_ | we need to reach concensus on certificates | 14:44 |
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| evgenyf | My WIKI page (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/SSL) was updated with Vijey's points. | 14:45 |
| evgenyf | Dilema about entities hierarchy is still open | 14:45 |
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| Vijay_ | as i said in the mailing list, would prefer to have certificate created as a seprate resource with VIP parameter | 14:46 |
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| enikanorov | Vijay_: how are you going to use it if it doesn't contain certificate itself? | 14:46 |
| Vijay_ | it will contain key, certificate and certificate chain along with the vip parameter | 14:47 |
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| enikanorov | so you're proposing to store certificate in the DB? | 14:47 |
| Vijay_ | no | 14:47 |
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| Vijay_ | since the vip parameter is available we should be able to find the driver associated with it and send it to the correct driver | 14:47 |
| Vijay_ | so this is the flow | 14:48 |
| Vijay_ | create vip, create certificate (with vip). | 14:48 |
| enikanorov | ok, certificate data is stored where? | 14:48 |
| Vijay_ | in the device | 14:49 |
| Vijay_ | the key will be transient | 14:49 |
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| enikanorov | how to reuse the certificate resource then? | 14:49 |
| Vijay_ | it wont be available for reuse | 14:49 |
| enikanorov | what's the point of having it as separate resource then? | 14:50 |
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| samuelbercovici | in both aproache (embedding in the VIP or creating certificate associate with a VIP), the difference is the workflow the effect is the same | 14:50 |
| Vijay_ | Sam: right, the model is easier to migrate to future | 14:50 |
| enikanorov | what are planned changes to this model? | 14:51 |
| samuelbercovici | i prefere the "embedding" model as it is simple and when we get to have ke management with persistant capabilities, we can add the certificate as a 1st level citizen | 14:51 |
| samuelbercovici | doing it now, might encour API changes which are not backward compatible | 14:51 |
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| samuelbercovici | so doing a "simple" model now, and adding a reusable model when we can store keys would be my prefered choice | 14:52 |
| Vijay_ | if there are VIPs with embeded certificate params, when there are certificate independent how will it be | 14:52 |
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| Vijay_ | we might have a certificate parameter in the VIP? | 14:53 |
| enikanorov | i still would like to know how the model with independent certificate will evolve | 14:53 |
| enikanorov | e.g. what would be that 'future migration' | 14:53 |
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| enikanorov | because it is the only point imo that decides the better approach here | 14:54 |
| Vijay_ | ok. ill write the migration path in a do | 14:54 |
| Vijay_ | *doc | 14:54 |
| Vijay_ | and circulate | 14:54 |
| enikanorov | ok | 14:54 |
| Vijay_ | also, backend certificates need to be accomodated | 14:55 |
| samuelbercovici | i think, that having two models "basic" and in the future "resuable/persitant" mitigate the migration need. it is somewhat of a YAGNY | 14:55 |
| samuelbercovici | YAGNI | 14:55 |
| enikanorov | ok | 14:56 |
| enikanorov | any other topics? | 14:56 |
| samuelbercovici | Vijay_: backed, do not need cirtificates. | 14:56 |
| Vijay_ | how will the VIP authenticate the certificate presentd by backend if it is HTTPS service? | 14:57 |
| s3wong | enikanorov: is the ability to set floating IP as VIP (i.e., service insertion) part of Icehouse plan? | 14:57 |
| samuelbercovici | the VIP is "simulating" a client, I think that you refer to CA for the backend | 14:57 |
| samuelbercovici | right? | 14:57 |
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| enikanorov | s3wong: not exactly. I saw embrane driver tried to do that | 14:58 |
| Vijay_ | yes the loadbalancer will act as a client and send make a seperate handshake with the backend service | 14:58 |
| enikanorov | i mean that i would leave it up to vendors impelmentations | 14:58 |
| s3wong | LVS driver has done some work there as well | 14:58 |
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| Vijay_ | as part of the handshake the backend service is going to present a server certificate | 14:59 |
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| samuelbercovici | yes, and the allowed CA, might need to be set in the backend if you want to be strict | 15:00 |
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| enikanorov | i think our time is up | 15:00 |
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| enikanorov | we can continue on #neutron-lbaas or on ML | 15:01 |
| samuelbercovici | Vijay_: lest discuss offline | 15:01 |
| enikanorov | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 15:01:07 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2013/neutron_lbaas.2013-11-21-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2013/neutron_lbaas.2013-11-21-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2013/neutron_lbaas.2013-11-21-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
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| dkranz | sdague: YOu here for the meeting? | 17:00 |
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| andreaf | hi | 17:00 |
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| dkranz | #startmeeting qa | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 17:01:23 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dkranz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:01 |
| dkranz | Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting | 17:01 |
| dkranz | So who is here today? | 17:01 |
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| afazekas | hi | 17:01 |
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| mlavalle | dkranz: hi | 17:01 |
| tkammer | hey | 17:02 |
| andreaf | hi | 17:02 |
| qianlin | hi | 17:02 |
| dkranz | mkoderer: Here? | 17:02 |
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| dkranz | Sory, I was in the wrong channel | 17:05 |
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| dkranz | A master blueprint was created for icehouse scenario tests and it has several pointers in it. | 17:05 |
| dkranz | Several people are adopting the approach of creating a spec in a zeroth patch. | 17:05 |
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| dkranz | Any comments about blueprints | 17:06 |
| dkranz | ? | 17:06 |
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| afazekas | link ? | 17:07 |
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| andreaf | I created a blueprint for input scenarios for scenario tests | 17:07 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: I have 2 blueprints for icehouse… I want to make sure they are aligned with the new effort to improve Neutron testing | 17:07 |
| andreaf | as discussed during summit | 17:07 |
| andreaf | sorry mlavalle go ahead first | 17:08 |
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| dkranz | mlavalle: Are they created yet in tempest? | 17:08 |
| mlavalle | mlavalle: dkranz: those blueprints were put together several months ago… so I want to confirm they are aligned with the new priorities | 17:08 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: links? | 17:09 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: t=yes they are in Launchpad | 17:09 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: Do you mean this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/neutron-advanced-scenarios | 17:10 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: nope, hold on a second… I have trouble with my Launchpad account | 17:10 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: We are tracking the new scenarios in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/add-scenario-tests-in-icehouse | 17:11 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: which includes both neutron and other | 17:11 |
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| dkranz | mlavalle: Any good neutron scenario tests will be helpful and this blueprint should help avoid duplication. | 17:12 |
| salv-orlando | Do we still need the first? I filed it before the summit, but I think it will all go under the latter | 17:12 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: so what is here is not valid anymore: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest | 17:12 |
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| dkranz | mlavalle: Not sure what you mean. | 17:12 |
| dkranz | salv-orlando: Yes, it would be reasonable to break your blueprint into its pieces and point to from the master blueprint | 17:12 |
| salv-orlando | dkranz: ok will do | 17:13 |
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| mlavalle | dkranz: well, I thought that's where blueprints were registered and prioritized… if that's not the place anymore, it's fine, I just need to know it | 17:13 |
| dkranz | salv-orlando: Thanks | 17:13 |
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| dkranz | mlavalle: THe high priority is "more scenario tests" and is tracked through the master blueprint | 17:14 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: We did not want to manage a whole lot of blueprints | 17:14 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: cool, thanks | 17:14 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: The new scenarios are more on a "train model" where they come in when they do | 17:14 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: We are not assigning individual priorities and tracking them | 17:15 |
| dkranz | Anything else on that? | 17:15 |
| andreaf | dkranz: I have a blueprint which is a tool around scenarios, to provide multiple input scenarios: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/input-scenarios-for-scenario | 17:15 |
| andreaf | dkranz: I think that's a bit different, I wouldn't add it into the list | 17:15 |
| dkranz | andreaf: I agree. Looks interesting. | 17:16 |
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| dkranz | #topic Negative testing | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Negative testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:16 | |
| dkranz | So Marc and I have not had time to make much progress on this since last week. | 17:17 |
| dkranz | We hope to do some more next week. | 17:17 |
| dkranz | BTW, next week is US Thanksgiving holiday so many of us will not be around. | 17:17 |
| dkranz | #topic Neutron testing | 17:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:18 | |
| dkranz | mlavalle: all yours | 17:18 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: well, this topic is related to my previous question | 17:18 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: sdague wrote in an emasil a few days ago that certain things needed to be finished ready for the Montreal sprint | 17:19 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: Yes, I think he was trying to make sure that the Montreal thing was a "wrap-up" session and not a "let's start now" thing | 17:20 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: i am attending the Montreal sprint and want to know how can i contribute between now and January for it to be a success | 17:20 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: You can look at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-summit-qa-neutron | 17:21 |
| mlavalle | dkarnz: ok, I'll take a look, thanks | 17:21 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: There is also a need for new scenario tests. | 17:21 |
| sdague | hey folks, actually managed to make it late... :) (dkranz carry on, don't let me interupt your flow) | 17:21 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: You should probably coordinate with the neutron folks mentioned there | 17:22 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: who should I talk to to coordinate scenario tests development? | 17:22 |
| salv-orlando | mlavalle: markmcclain and anteaya are coordinating efforts | 17:22 |
| dkranz | sdague: Welcome | 17:22 |
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| salv-orlando | I am participating but I am merely an executor | 17:22 |
| mlavalle | salv-orlando: ok, I will talk to anteaya | 17:22 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: The master blueprint is the registry to avoid duplication | 17:22 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: Anything else? | 17:23 |
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| mlavalle | dkranz: that's all, thanks for all the answers | 17:23 |
| dkranz | #topic Critical reviews | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:24 | |
| dkranz | It would be great if some one could give a +A (or not) to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55251/ | 17:24 |
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| dkranz | It is awaiting non-RH approval | 17:24 |
| dkranz | Any other reviews folks want to call out? | 17:25 |
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| dkranz | sdague: What is the gate status? Business as usual or "no +2"? | 17:25 |
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| sdague | dkranz: the grenade fix just landed | 17:25 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Cool | 17:26 |
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| sdague | so... I think it's going to take a couple of hours to figure out if that makes most of the issues go away | 17:26 |
| dkranz | sdague: OK, so we'll hold off for now. | 17:26 |
| sdague | I'd say hold off on tempest +A until we know | 17:26 |
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| sdague | as there are already 50 things in the gate, and don't want to make it worse | 17:26 |
| dkranz | sdague: I presume there will be another email from infra when things are "ok" | 17:26 |
| sdague | yeh | 17:26 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I think we may need to modify our gating strategy but that is not a topic for now. | 17:27 |
| sdague | agreed | 17:27 |
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| afazekas | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57193/ | 17:27 |
| dkranz | ok, then | 17:27 |
| dkranz | #topic General Discussion | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:27 | |
| afazekas | is this change still needed ? | 17:27 |
| sdague | dkranz: agreed, I'm having dinner with jeblair and jog0 tonight, I'm sure it will come up | 17:28 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: Not sure | 17:29 |
| dkranz | sdague: Can you comment on ^^^. You pushed it through (or tried to) | 17:29 |
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| sdague | last night we were trying to sort out anything else that might help us on stability | 17:30 |
| sdague | clarkb and jog0 felt that was one of the things that would help | 17:31 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: You gave it a -1 | 17:31 |
| clarkb | afazekas: yes it is needed | 17:31 |
| clarkb | 1251920 is currently the biggest gate problem and 57193 works around it for now | 17:31 |
| dkranz | So it just needs a reverify | 17:32 |
| clarkb | dkranz: it is in the gate now | 17:32 |
| dkranz | clarkb: ok | 17:32 |
| afazekas | dkranz: yes because the big in the skip decorator is in Fix committed status | 17:32 |
| clarkb | 1251920 is definitely not fixed I think that should be changed | 17:33 |
| afazekas | several other bug was also marked as duplicate of that bug | 17:33 |
| clarkb | oh the oslo sync change marked it fixed but it didn't actually fix the bug | 17:33 |
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| clarkb | afazekas: I think that bug should be marked invalid for nova and triaged for tempest | 17:34 |
| sdague | clarkb: so I ran recheck to get new results, did you reverify to put it back in the gate? | 17:34 |
| afazekas | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1251784 and this ? | 17:34 |
| clarkb | sdague: something else got it in the gate | 17:34 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1251784 in tripleo "nova+neutron scheduling error: Connection to neutron failed: Maximum attempts reached (dup-of: 1251920)" [Critical,New] | 17:34 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1251920 in nova "Tempest failures due to failure to return console logs from an instance" [Critical,Fix committed] | 17:34 |
| clarkb | sdague: I am not sure what :) but it is there | 17:34 |
| sdague | heh | 17:35 |
| clarkb | afazekas: I think the confusion here is we thought the nova oslo sync would fix several problems | 17:36 |
| dkranz | This is kind of a mess | 17:36 |
| clarkb | afazekas: it did fix 1251784 but no 1251920 | 17:36 |
| clarkb | so they need to be deduped | 17:36 |
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| clarkb | yes it is a mess | 17:37 |
| sdague | dkranz: it is kind of a mess, thankfully clarkb and jog0 have been unwinding it | 17:37 |
| clarkb | I am going to start drafting up a thing in the etherpad that has been tracking it sothat we can make sense of it all | 17:37 |
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| dkranz | clarkb: Thanks. | 17:37 |
| dkranz | clarkb: Then we can adjust the state of bugs, etc. | 17:37 |
| * sdague owes clarkb plenty of beer | 17:38 | |
| dkranz | Any other issues to discuss? | 17:38 |
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| afazekas | instance validation via ssh ? | 17:39 |
| dkranz | OK, I guess we can end early today. | 17:39 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: Can you elaborate? | 17:39 |
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| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52870/ | 17:39 |
| dkranz | afazekas: Looks like it is just waiting for +A | 17:39 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52586/ | 17:40 |
| sdague | afazekas: I'll look | 17:40 |
| afazekas | sdague: thx | 17:40 |
| dkranz | afazekas: The last is not ready for review | 17:40 |
| sdague | so the last jenkins success was a month ago, I'm going to recheck it | 17:40 |
| afazekas | it is | 17:40 |
| sdague | and if it looks good, will +A | 17:40 |
| dkranz | afazekas: It says work in progress and depends on an abandoned patch? | 17:41 |
| afazekas | I have changed the default behavior to connect via the fixed ip based on sdagues request | 17:41 |
| afazekas | if I would change the default to floating , it would pass on the gate | 17:41 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50337/ | 17:42 |
| afazekas | sorry | 17:42 |
| afazekas | restored | 17:42 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: ok, I'll look too | 17:43 |
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| dkranz | Anything else? | 17:43 |
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| dkranz | Should we cancel next week or does some one non-US want to lead? | 17:44 |
| anteaya | o/ | 17:45 |
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| dkranz | anteaya: Yes? | 17:45 |
| dkranz | ok, I guess that's it for today. | 17:46 |
| sdague | afazekas: did you vote for core adds on the public list? | 17:46 |
| sdague | I think you were the last tempest-core unaccounted for? | 17:47 |
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| anteaya | just responding to my name earlier | 17:47 |
| anteaya | sorry | 17:47 |
| afazekas | sdague: I will, thank you | 17:48 |
| anteaya | oh I do have a comment | 17:48 |
| anteaya | I can't make the neutron team meeting next week | 17:48 |
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| anteaya | would be great if someone could take my spot for Neutron Tempest topic | 17:49 |
| anteaya | I will try to populate the agenda item on Sunday | 17:49 |
| anteaya | any takers? | 17:49 |
| dkranz | anteaya: When is it? | 17:49 |
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| anteaya | Monday at 21 utc I think | 17:49 |
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| mlavalle | anteaya: I can do it | 17:50 |
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| anteaya | Weekly on Mondays at 2100 UTC | 17:50 |
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| anteaya | awesome thanks mlavalle I'll co-ordinate with you | 17:50 |
| anteaya | that's it from me | 17:51 |
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| dkranz | ok | 17:51 |
| dkranz | #endmeeting | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 17:51:22 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-11-21-17.01.html | 17:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-11-21-17.01.txt | 17:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-11-21-17.01.log.html | 17:51 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 18:00:41 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | good morning / afternoon / evening everyone | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| sriramhere | good morning! | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | any others here for the OSSG meeting? | 18:01 |
| bpb | hi | 18:01 |
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| sriramhere | me here | 18:01 |
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| nkinder | hi | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | ok, let's get started | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | last week we did some post summit wrapup | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | and I suggested a lot of ways for people to get involved | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | this week, I'm happy to report that several people have stepped up to help out | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | nkinder will be our community manager | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | welcome nkinder | 18:04 |
| nkinder | thanks! | 18:04 |
| sriramhere | first order business - congratulations to nkinder! | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | we also have some momentum on the OSSNs with people volunteering to help and/or edit them | 18:04 |
| bknudson | nkinder: what does community manager do? | 18:04 |
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| nkinder | bknudson: that's a good question that I'm trying to figure out. :) | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | ha | 18:05 |
| randy_perryman | here | 18:05 |
| nkinder | I think a big part is coordination with the projects around security | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | here's the simple description I put together "As the Community Manager, Nathan will take the lead on ensuring that the work happening in OSSG is known by others in the community. And he'll help us focus our involvement in conferences and other such events." | 18:05 |
| bknudson | ok, that sounds great | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | clearly nkinder will need to get up to speed on all things OSSG | 18:06 |
| nkinder | I'm looking at doing more than just organizing communication as well. Helping to improve our processes and expand what we do. | 18:06 |
| nkinder | yeah, there's a lot to learn. | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | but please feel free to pick his brain, and leverage him as a resource for communicating what we do | 18:06 |
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| bdpayne | I have also heard from someone ineterested in being an editor for the book... so hopefully that comes together | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | more details soonish on that, hopefully | 18:07 |
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| sriramhere | that's great - bryan - what does it require to be the editor for the book? | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | good writing skills | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | :-) | 18:08 |
| sriramhere | :) | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | well, that and some knowledge of the domain | 18:08 |
| sriramhere | no, does it need any company affiiliation/ partime / full time etc | 18:08 |
| sriramhere | ? | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | oh, certainly not anything like that | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne | in my email yesterday, I just reached out looking for some book editors to help cleanup the book and make it a more polished read | 18:09 |
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| nkinder | so we'll take what we can get :) | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | sriramhere you want to help? :-) | 18:09 |
| sriramhere | Yes Bryan | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | excellent, I'll be in touch about that | 18:09 |
| sriramhere | i missed that email, but would like to help. | 18:09 |
| sriramhere | thanks | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | so, with that length intro | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | anything that people want to discuss today? | 18:10 |
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| sriramhere | got update and a followup question | 18:10 |
| nkinder | OSSN/OSSA publishing is a topic I'd like to discuss | 18:10 |
| sriramhere | update : following nkinder, me working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossn/+bug/1227575 OSSN | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | ok | 18:10 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1227575 in nova "DoS style attack on noVNC server can lead to service interruption or disruption" [High,In progress] | 18:10 |
| bknudson | if no other topics -- are you guys familiar with nist / fips standards ? | 18:10 |
| sriramhere | nkinder - u go first. didnt mean to interrupt the OSSN updates | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | bknudson we can discuss that a bit at the end | 18:11 |
| bknudson | bdpayne: thanks | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | #topic OSSN updates | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN updates (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:11 | |
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| nkinder | Ok, so I have one OSSN that is ready for publishing | 18:11 |
| nkinder | being that it's my first OSSN, I'm not sure what lists we usually send them to. | 18:12 |
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| bdpayne | I think that they have gone to just openstack@lists.openstack.org in the past | 18:12 |
| nkinder | ok, just the main user list? | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | yeah | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | but... wide coverage may make sense | 18:12 |
| bknudson | and -announce? | 18:12 |
| nkinder | alright, I'll send that out today. | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | in the past, not -announce | 18:13 |
| nkinder | perhaps.... that brings me to the larger topic I want to discuss | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | but, yeah... I know where nkinder is headed... so go ahead | 18:13 |
| nkinder | It seems like the notices can get missed easily with just sending them out to the main mailing list. | 18:13 |
| nkinder | I think we might want a separate list just for advisories, and putting them up on a wiki/webpage would be great too. | 18:14 |
| nkinder | That starts to get into the format of the advisories/notes too. | 18:14 |
| sriramhere | Can we work with Stef on surfacting this up to COmmunity Newsletter? | 18:14 |
| sriramhere | we talked about a 'Security Corner' in the newsletter | 18:14 |
| joel-coffman | what about the dev list too? | 18:14 |
| nkinder | the newsletter would be good. | 18:15 |
| sriramhere | Links to the wiki/ webpage can go in that 'Security Corner' updates | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | I think that posting to dev and the main list is typically discouraged | 18:15 |
| nkinder | The more broadly distributed the better I think, but there should be a way to easily be notified without a lot of other noise. | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | I think that something like this is perhaps best placed on a webpage / wiki | 18:15 |
| bknudson | blog | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | with a feed, perhaps | 18:15 |
| nkinder | I'd like to get things into a structured format, like CVRF. | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | and then we could announce that we are doing that via the newsletter, for example | 18:15 |
| sriramhere | i like the idea of adding to a blog/ wiki and surfacing up to newsletter | 18:16 |
| nkinder | I'm starting to investigate that. If we have the advisories in CVRF format, we can then generate other formats for wiki/e-mail/newsletter too. | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | nkinder that sounds reasonable | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | should certainly coordiate with VMT people on this | 18:17 |
| nkinder | Definitely | 18:17 |
| sriramhere | gr8 | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | would be nice to have a parallel publishing setup for OSSAs | 18:17 |
| nkinder | I'm doing some initial investigation, but planned to write something up to discuss with VMT | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | but for now, just a post to the mailing list is a good start | 18:18 |
| nkinder | yep | 18:18 |
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| nkinder | ok, I'm good on that topic. | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | thanks | 18:18 |
| sriramhere | ok, i want to followup on threa model | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | #topic threat model | 18:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "threat model (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:19 | |
| bdpayne | take it away sriramhere | 18:19 |
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| sriramhere | thanks to Shohel, we have the wiki up | 18:19 |
| sriramhere | He put in to touch with couple others from his team who can coordiante while he is away | 18:20 |
| sriramhere | i want to know who else is interested, so we can have a quick chat on next steps | 18:20 |
| bknudson | link to wiki? | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | for those that aren't aware, this is about work that is aiming to do some threat modeling on some of the key integrated projects for OpenStack (like Keystone, Nova, Swift, etc) | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Threat_Analysis | 18:21 |
| sriramhere | thanks Bryan. you beat me :) | 18:21 |
| nkinder | I saw that there was an analysis of Keystone a few releases back. | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | sriramhere any more details on the approach or what kind of expertise are needed for this project? | 18:22 |
| bknudson | is the output updated books or bugs? | 18:22 |
| sriramhere | prior exp. with threat modeling preferred | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | output here will be bugs... and hopefully some lessons learned to improve the dev process more broadly | 18:22 |
| sriramhere | even if not, let us get started with interested people | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | bknudson is this a space you are interested in? | 18:23 |
| bknudson | I wish I had the time... | 18:23 |
| bknudson | we'll be interested in the results | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | ha, I know that feeling | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | indeed | 18:23 |
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| sriramhere | :) | 18:23 |
| bknudson | and of course if there's questions about keystone I should be able to answer | 18:23 |
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| bdpayne | great | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | sriramhere anything else on this topic? | 18:24 |
| bknudson | keystone definitely has a large surface area by itself. | 18:24 |
| sriramhere | looks like no one in the meeting now has bandwidth to join. so done with the topic | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | ok, let's move on to our final topic | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | #topic fips / nist stuff | 18:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fips / nist stuff (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:25 | |
| bdpayne | bknudson you had questions here? | 18:25 |
| bknudson | people around here ask about this stuff. | 18:25 |
| bknudson | and I was wondering if there was any community effort in this area that you knew of. | 18:25 |
| bknudson | e.g., https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity | 18:25 |
| bknudson | oops | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-131A/sp800-131A.pdf | 18:25 |
| bknudson | related to key lengths. | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | ahh | 18:25 |
| nkinder | EC keys? | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | so the short answer is no | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | this is one area that we haven't hit as much | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | the book does have a chapter on compliance | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | but this is a touch different | 18:26 |
| bknudson | yes, I was just reading through the security book and hadn't gotten to that yet. | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | I, for one, think it would be a nice contribution to have someone pull together the relavent docs and put together some best practices there | 18:26 |
| bknudson | alright, well if I find out stuff related to this I'll keep the security group informed. | 18:27 |
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| bdpayne | one of the challenges is in just general key management / key rotation / key expiration / etc... and Cloudkeep / Barbican aims to improve this quite a bit | 18:27 |
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| bdpayne | but there's other challenges around understanding where an OpenStack deployment uses keys and how they should each be handled, for example | 18:28 |
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| nkinder | That seems to be the difficulty now. Who is responsible for keys in general? | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | this came up on the mailing list recently | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | Jeffrey Walton asked the question, I believe | 18:28 |
| bknudson | there's key handling stuff in keystone, in barbican ... obviously nova has some access keys... | 18:28 |
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| bdpayne | but the answer to "who is repsonsible for keys" is basically the cloud implementor today... with help from Barbican in the future | 18:29 |
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| bdpayne | I think that we should work to get all of that in one place | 18:29 |
| sriramhere | are we proposing a key manager | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | and I do think that Barbican is the right place | 18:29 |
| rellerreller | There is a proposed KM interface | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | Barbican is a key manager | 18:29 |
| rellerreller | I think we should work to standarize that and eventually push that into oslo | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | #topic End NOtes | 18:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "End NOtes (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:30 | |
| rellerreller | Then Barbican or whatever else KM would work | 18:30 |
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| bdpayne | Just a note that we won't meet next week b/c of US Thanksgiving holiday | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | and with that, we are out of time | 18:30 |
| bknudson | thanks! | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | happy to continue the key manager stuff on the ML | 18:30 |
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| sriramhere | thanks, happt thanksgiving! | 18:30 |
| nkinder | thanks everyone | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 18:31:01 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-11-21-18.00.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-11-21-18.00.txt | 18:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-11-21-18.00.log.html | 18:31 |
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| hyakuhei | Evening all | 19:03 |
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| hyakuhei | So, looks like we just had a netsplit, I suggest we wait a minute or two for irc to fix iteself before starting the meeting. | 19:06 |
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| thomasbiege | hi | 19:07 |
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| hyakuhei | bdpayne: you here? | 19:10 |
| hyakuhei | So I joined a little late, Not sure if my irc client is playing up or today is just really quiet? | 19:10 |
| thomasbiege | i was late too | 19:10 |
| thomasbiege | but it looks like we dont have a meeting today | 19:11 |
| hyakuhei | Hmm, ok I'll start the meeting | 19:11 |
| hyakuhei | If I can remember how | 19:11 |
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| hyakuhei | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 19:12 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 19:12:21 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:12 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 19:12 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 19:12 |
| hyakuhei | Wow, look at that. | 19:12 |
| hyakuhei | Ok, lets take a quick roll call, see if there's more than the two of us here! | 19:12 |
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| * hyakuhei Rob - HP Cloud | 19:12 | |
| hyakuhei | thomasbiege: I guess you're here | 19:13 |
| hyakuhei | I guess other than that we don't have anyone here. | 19:13 |
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| hyakuhei | I think there's a horrible netsplit going on | 19:14 |
| hyakuhei | ok, ending the meeting. | 19:14 |
| dolphm | didn't the OSSG meeting start like an hour ago? | 19:14 |
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| * dolphm is having deja vu | 19:15 | |
| hyakuhei | dolphm: Possibly. It's in my calendar for 7pm but that doesn't play nicely with timezones. | 19:15 |
| hyakuhei | *sigh* | 19:15 |
| dolphm | hyakuhei: full log of the meeting an hour ago http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-11-21-18.00.log.html | 19:15 |
| dolphm | hyakuhei: it's currently 19:16 UTC -- OSSG meets at 18:00 UTC :) | 19:16 |
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| dolphm | this looks to be the time slot for the nova database team meeting | 19:18 |
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| hyakuhei | Thanks dolphm, I'll change my calendar appointment. | 19:21 |
| dolphm | hyakuhei: no worries - this is how openstack celebrates daylight savings | 19:21 |
| hyakuhei | :) | 19:21 |
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| lifeless | dolphm: nova meeting is in 2 hours I think | 19:23 |
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| dolphm | lifeless: correct- but i was referring to this https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DBTeamMeeting | 19:24 |
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| lifeless | dolphm: oh right :> | 19:27 |
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| dolphm | hyakuhei: the meeting you started is still active | 19:28 |
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| lifeless | #endmeeting | 19:32 |
| lifeless | nope, needs hyakuhei :( | 19:32 |
| morganfainberg | ah might let anyone kill the meeting once the meeting "time slot" has finished (60 min?) | 19:34 |
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| fungi | yeah, as soon as 20:12 utc rolls around, anyone should be able to #endmeeting | 19:40 |
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| haruka | test | 19:48 |
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| dolphm | hyakuhei: ping ^ | 20:00 |
| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:00 |
| openstack | harlowja: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 20:00 |
| harlowja | hmmm | 20:00 |
| harlowja | hyakuhei can u stop the meeting :-/ | 20:00 |
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| dolphm | harlowja: you *could* have (part of) your meeting logged as OSSG | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hmmm, guess i have to wait 12 minutes | 20:01 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:01 |
| harlowja | durn | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | hmmm, anyone around for state-management meeting | 20:02 |
| harlowja | this one might not be logged until 10 minutes from now | 20:02 |
| harlowja | *logged correctly* | 20:02 |
| harlowja | meeting got hijaccked | 20:03 |
| iv_m | let's throw some action items in | 20:03 |
| harlowja | haha | 20:03 |
| harlowja | #action don't forget to end the meeting | 20:03 |
| harlowja | #action man all those security holes need fixing | 20:03 |
| harlowja | anyway, if people are here for the state-management meeting | 20:05 |
| harlowja | still waiting 7 minutes until i think i can reclaim the meeting | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | do do | 20:08 |
| harlowja | lala | 20:08 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:12 |
| openstack | harlowja: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 20:12 |
| iv_m | #endmeeting | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:12 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 20:12:38 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:12 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-11-21-19.12.html | 20:12 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-11-21-19.12.txt | 20:12 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-11-21-19.12.log.html | 20:12 |
| harlowja | thx iv_m | 20:12 |
| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:13 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 20:13:05 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:13 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:13 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management' | 20:13 |
| harlowja | ok dokie, back in action | 20:13 |
| iv_m | so, hi there) | 20:13 |
| haruka | hi | 20:13 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:13 |
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| harlowja | sorry for the late meeting, not my fault :) | 20:13 |
| haruka | no it's ok | 20:14 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement | 20:14 |
| harlowja | #topic previous-action-items | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "previous-action-items (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:14 | |
| harlowja | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-10-24-20.00.html | 20:14 |
| harlowja | so the previous one was before the summit | 20:14 |
| harlowja | and was mostly around summit planning (and icehouse planning) | 20:15 |
| harlowja | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TaskflowIcehouseWhoWhatWhereWhy i think is still a good place to know what everyone is up to | 20:15 |
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| harlowja | so if u are doing anything, helpful to just put it on there (so that others know) | 20:15 |
| harlowja | since its not so easy to cross link blueprints | 20:15 |
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| harlowja | which brings us into the summit results/summary | 20:16 |
| harlowja | #topic summit | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:16 | |
| haruka | not yet have started. | 20:16 |
| harlowja | np haruka thats fine | 20:16 |
| harlowja | just a good place to even keep track of planning | 20:16 |
| haruka | yes | 20:17 |
| harlowja | since a cross-project like taskflow, hard to know where everyone is | 20:17 |
| haruka | i think so too:) | 20:17 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:18 |
| harlowja | so about the summit | 20:18 |
| harlowja | who all was there, hopefully u guys attended my sessions, ha | 20:18 |
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| harlowja | if not, thats ok too :) | 20:18 |
| harlowja | overall i think it was very good for taskflow | 20:18 |
| harlowja | lots of good input, feedback, and desire to keep on movin with features and integration | 20:19 |
| harlowja | and people approaching me saying they want to help (which is always nice) | 20:19 |
| harlowja | mistral to, with rakhmerov , good meetings there to | 20:19 |
| harlowja | next time iv_m must go, ha | 20:19 |
| iv_m | let's see | 20:20 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:20 |
| iv_m | #link http://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-hong-kong-2013/session-videos/presentation/taskflow-an-openstack-library-that-helps-make-task-execution-easy-consistent-and-reliable | 20:20 |
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| harlowja | thx :) | 20:20 |
| iv_m | ^^ i think nice to have it here | 20:20 |
| harlowja | agreed | 20:20 |
| harlowja | #link http://www.slideshare.net/harlowja/taskflow-27820295 | 20:21 |
| harlowja | as with result to actual work to do | 20:21 |
| harlowja | there was quite alot of desire for a distributed 'something' | 20:21 |
| harlowja | heat folks especially for that | 20:21 |
| haruka | yes | 20:21 |
| harlowja | glance i think is ok with not having it to start (for there async-worker concept) | 20:21 |
| harlowja | heat though also has other work to do to get ready for a start at integration | 20:22 |
| harlowja | although talking to them, zaneb angus (and others) i think they want to try to start down the path of making that happen | 20:22 |
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| harlowja | cinder of course, lots of good stuff there, that one i think is going smoothly (multiple reviews up that are being worked on there) | 20:22 |
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| harlowja | cinder folks were very nice +1 jgriffith hemna ... | 20:23 |
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| harlowja | nova discussions were interesting, still a little hard for me to tell where nova is going with regards to all of this | 20:23 |
| harlowja | was alot of discussion, but hard to tell what the final result was | 20:24 |
| harlowja | nova is hard, cause its complex, and the ordering dependency to make taskflow there possible is tough to decipher | 20:24 |
| haruka | also from point of conductor. | 20:24 |
| harlowja | ya, i don't think conductor is a conflict, its in my mind, just the thing that runs the workflows | 20:25 |
| harlowja | and thats fine, but there are ordering dependencies around moving workflow, how to do this without breakage... | 20:25 |
| harlowja | *moving workflows | 20:25 |
| harlowja | not so easy to approach that problem (requires expertise in nova itself) | 20:25 |
| harlowja | *expertise and lots of time | 20:26 |
| harlowja | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseConductorTasksNextSteps was a good session anyway | 20:26 |
| harlowja | but was very ambituous imho | 20:26 |
| harlowja | " complete migrate, live migrate, resize, boot | 20:26 |
| harlowja | rework snapshots" comment there | 20:26 |
| harlowja | thats 5 major workflows | 20:27 |
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| harlowja | not really sure if thats feasible, and then also including a task web api | 20:27 |
| harlowja | so 6 big moving pieces | 20:27 |
| harlowja | anyways, we'll see what happens there | 20:27 |
| harlowja | the more the better, and i guess we can hopefully get taskflow in to help there | 20:28 |
| harlowja | if anyone is up for a challenge (i'll try to get going there to) | 20:28 |
| * iv_m too | 20:28 | |
| harlowja | cool, so from my knowledge of nova, they are hoping people open blueprints ahead of time, so if u want to try something there (remember u will probably have to devote quite a bit of your time to it) i think the approach is to file those blueprints sooner rather than later | 20:29 |
| harlowja | and then probably include them on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TaskflowIcehouseWhoWhatWhereWhy so others know | 20:30 |
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| harlowja | cool, any other summit questions/feedback ? | 20:31 |
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| haruka | let's see ... | 20:32 |
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| haruka | i watched the review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53922/ . | 20:32 |
| haruka | did anyone join cinder IRC or heard about this in detail? | 20:33 |
| harlowja | iv_m i think can answer that | 20:33 |
| harlowja | *afaik its not abandoned, but is being worked on actively | 20:33 |
| haruka | do you know any detail of abandone by John Griffith | 20:34 |
| iv_m | Anastasia is working on that, i hope she'll send updated patch in couple of days | 20:34 |
| haruka | oh ok | 20:34 |
| haruka | ok thanks. | 20:34 |
| harlowja | haruka the abandonment is more of just what happens when there isn't activity on it for a few days | 20:34 |
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| harlowja | thx iv_m, let us know if anastasia needs any help | 20:35 |
| haruka | i got. i understood that under trying. | 20:35 |
| harlowja | k :) | 20:35 |
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| harlowja | alright, next topic | 20:35 |
| harlowja | #topic 0.2 Planning | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "0.2 Planning (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:35 | |
| harlowja | so for 0.2, the next major release of taskflow i just wanted to go over what i think is a good goal | 20:36 |
| harlowja | and when | 20:36 |
| harlowja | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow | 20:37 |
| harlowja | but also want to empathize that integration should probably be most of the main focus | 20:37 |
| harlowja | otherwise to me the 3 nice things to have, are 1, the jobboard part that i am working on | 20:37 |
| harlowja | 2, some type of distributed engine type (simpler the better honestly) | 20:38 |
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| harlowja | which anatasia is also working on | 20:38 |
| harlowja | and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/zk-logbook which i think changbl is looking into | 20:38 |
| harlowja | and any other bug fixes that come from integration (we can maybe even have these be 0.1.x releases if needed) | 20:39 |
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| harlowja | sound reasonable? | 20:39 |
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| harlowja | and if we can, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/book-retention would be nice to | 20:39 |
| haruka | yes, i think. | 20:39 |
| iv_m | yeah, Anastasia did some research on distributed engine, and we discussed basic design | 20:39 |
| iv_m | i think i'll post some design docs tomorrow, or next week | 20:40 |
| harlowja | ya, hopefully soon we can send out a nice email to openstack-dev about here research and results, that'd be great | 20:40 |
| harlowja | great iv_m | 20:40 |
| harlowja | *her research | 20:40 |
| haruka | abou logbook, no persistence, i got. | 20:41 |
| harlowja | i'm also ongoing working with mistral folks, so a few other blueprints might result (to early to see still) | 20:41 |
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| harlowja | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MistralEngineForTaskFlow | 20:41 |
| harlowja | and others at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mistral#Etherpads | 20:42 |
| harlowja | so feel free to look over those if u guys want | 20:42 |
| harlowja | mistral as an engine inside taskflow is interseting (recursion...) | 20:42 |
| harlowja | but may at the current time just be more of thinking through the issues | 20:42 |
| harlowja | i think some of the ideas connect into anastasias work iv_m to | 20:43 |
| harlowja | haruka any questions on logbook or persistence that u have? | 20:43 |
| iv_m | another thing i've been working on is to bring in ability to split task graph into subgraph and be able to execute or revert any subgraph | 20:44 |
| harlowja | ah yes, thx for bringing that up | 20:44 |
| harlowja | also ekarlso is investigating whats happening with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/locking-api | 20:44 |
| harlowja | there was a summit session about having that be a new library (the general idea) | 20:44 |
| harlowja | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-oslo-service-synchronization | 20:44 |
| harlowja | ekarlso u around? | 20:45 |
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| haruka | no | 20:45 |
| harlowja | k :) | 20:45 |
| haruka | i haven't checked this ethepad. i will see. | 20:46 |
| harlowja | iv_m do u think we should have a new blueprint for your current work, or maybe its a combination of a few that exist? | 20:46 |
| harlowja | haruka sounds good | 20:46 |
| harlowja | iv_m maybe a combination of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/smart-revert and the reversion strategy one | 20:47 |
| iv_m | harlowja, well, maybe, as it is preparing underlying infrastructure for reversion strategies and smart revert bps | 20:47 |
| harlowja | k | 20:47 |
| harlowja | sure sure | 20:47 |
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| harlowja | maybe a new one (parent) that has those other 2 as dependencies (childs) | 20:48 |
| iv_m | sounds good | 20:48 |
| harlowja | cool, thx iv_m | 20:48 |
| changbl | hi guys, sorry i am late. harlowja, can you tell me about the zk impl commit? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54220/ | 20:48 |
| harlowja | ah, sure | 20:48 |
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| harlowja | if we have anytime for open discuss, how about then? | 20:49 |
| harlowja | sound ok changbl | 20:49 |
| harlowja | its not conflicting with your work | 20:49 |
| changbl | sure,har | 20:49 |
| changbl | sure, harlowja | 20:49 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:49 |
| harlowja | so as for 0.2 timeline | 20:49 |
| harlowja | i am hopeful the earlier the better (not at the end of icehouse, ha) | 20:49 |
| harlowja | i haven't seen an official icehouse release schedule yet | 20:50 |
| iv_m | i think we should release 0.2 as soon as at least some of them major features ready | 20:50 |
| harlowja | agreed | 20:50 |
| harlowja | i was hearing that icehouse will be around april 20 | 20:51 |
| harlowja | but i see no reason why we can't get stuff out way before that | 20:51 |
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| harlowja | so maybe lets just aim for mid-jan | 20:51 |
| harlowja | or if not, when its ready :-P | 20:52 |
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| harlowja | lets see how it goes i guess :) | 20:53 |
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| iv_m | i like idea releasing when it's ready, with mid-jan being rough estimate for features we mentioned above | 20:53 |
| harlowja | sounds good | 20:54 |
| harlowja | i think thats feasible | 20:54 |
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| harlowja | ok, we sorta mixed in the integration question with the above stuff, so lets jump to opendiscuss for last 5 minutes | 20:54 |
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| iv_m | but if we decide that e.g. your logbook stuff is ready, we should not sit on it, but release 0.2 with it and consider others 0.3 features | 20:54 |
| harlowja | kk | 20:54 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:54 |
| harlowja | sounds good to me iv_m | 20:55 |
| harlowja | mocking out zookeeper so that i can unit test that sucker | 20:55 |
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| harlowja | #topic open-discuss | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:55 | |
| harlowja | so an interesting thing from a conversation yesterday with a new folk in #openstack-state-managment | 20:56 |
| harlowja | thought it was interseting to hear | 20:56 |
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| harlowja | SEJeff_Work is refactoring his internal cloud software (which is a mix of openstack and not openstack) using taskflow | 20:56 |
| harlowja | i thought that was neat | 20:56 |
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| haruka | interestng | 20:57 |
| harlowja | tells me we are doing something right :) | 20:57 |
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| harlowja | at least he is prototyping that work, and we'll see what happens next | 20:57 |
| harlowja | neat to hear about that kind of usage :) | 20:58 |
| haruka | :) i have a question. | 20:58 |
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| harlowja | 2 minutes, | 20:58 |
| harlowja | :( | 20:58 |
| harlowja | is it quick, changbl haruka might have to jump to #openstack-state-management | 20:58 |
| harlowja | running out of time :( | 20:58 |
| changbl | sure | 20:58 |
| haruka | about snasphot taskflow-nize in ongoing? | 20:58 |
| haruka | is ongoing? | 20:58 |
| harlowja | it appears so, not completly sure of its status | 20:59 |
| harlowja | i think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55134/ is working through this | 20:59 |
| haruka | ok. | 20:59 |
| harlowja | i think stanislav is in the other channel to | 20:59 |
| harlowja | k, times up | 20:59 |
| harlowja | thx all for coming :) | 20:59 |
| harlowja | until next time! | 21:00 |
| haruka | thanks bye | 21:00 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 21:00:05 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-11-21-20.13.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-11-21-20.13.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-11-21-20.13.log.html | 21:00 |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 21:01:10 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
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| russellb | hello everyone! | 21:01 |
| mriedem1 | hi! | 21:01 |
| alaski | hi | 21:01 |
| melwitt | hi | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | hi | 21:01 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:01 |
| dripton | hi | 21:01 |
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| hartsocks | \o | 21:01 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:01 |
| jog0 | o/ | 21:01 |
| russellb | #topic general announcements | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general announcements (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:01 |
| russellb | the compute program needs a mission statement | 21:02 |
| lifeless | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | i drafted one, if anyone has feedback let me know, before i propose it to the governance repo | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019677.html | 21:02 |
| cyeoh | hi | 21:02 |
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| bnemec | \o | 21:02 |
| russellb | it's kinda buzzwordy, but ... trying to capture everything we do into a brief statement | 21:02 |
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| mspreitz | hi | 21:02 |
| russellb | anyway, not a huge deal, don't want to bikeshed it, but want to give everyone a chance to provide input if you want to :) | 21:03 |
| russellb | next thing ... mid cycle meetup | 21:03 |
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| russellb | we talked about this a bit last week | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | looks quite good to me, I wonder if we should mention the API, but yeah, looks good | 21:03 |
| russellb | dates are confirmed as Feb 10-12 | 21:03 |
| russellb | 3 days | 21:03 |
| russellb | in Orem, UT | 21:03 |
| russellb | (right outside SLC) | 21:04 |
| dansmith | woohoo! | 21:04 |
| *** denis_makogon_ is now known as denis_makogon | 21:04 | |
| russellb | at Bluehost's facility, thanks to geekinutah :) | 21:04 |
| jog0 | I assume there will be a ML announcement | 21:04 |
| russellb | yes | 21:04 |
| jog0 | kk | 21:04 |
| russellb | we're very close | 21:04 |
| jog0 | and woot | 21:04 |
| russellb | last thing was getting hotel links on our wiki page with all the details | 21:04 |
| mikal | Morning | 21:04 |
| russellb | we'll also have an eventbrite thing to register | 21:04 |
| russellb | but once the details are on the page, i'll post to the ML | 21:05 |
| russellb | just wanted to share the status | 21:05 |
| mikal | That's super awesome, thanks for tweaking the dates | 21:05 |
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| russellb | i'm hoping to tack on a day of snowboarding :) | 21:05 |
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| russellb | if anyone wants to join ... | 21:05 |
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| russellb | and laugh at me | 21:05 |
| jaybuff | russellb: i'm in! | 21:05 |
| mikal | russellb: sorry, I'm a nerd and can't do that. I would hurt my typing hands. | 21:06 |
| russellb | woot | 21:06 |
| russellb | maybe we could go tubing one night, heh | 21:06 |
| * n0ano (skier) refuses to comment on knuckle draggers :-) | 21:06 | |
| mriedem1 | doesn't anyone ski anymore? | 21:06 |
| mikal | I would like to go skidooing | 21:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | mikal: I am with you, is there a good pub with a nice view? | 21:06 |
| russellb | hotel should be just under $100/night | 21:06 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy: we can find one I am sure. Oh, except its Utah. Do they drink there? | 21:06 |
| russellb | so that should be enough to go ask nicely for budget | 21:06 |
| jaybuff | mikal: every day except sunday (serious) | 21:07 |
| mikal | jaybuff: works for me | 21:07 |
| russellb | next item of business! | 21:07 |
| mikal | Sunday can be liver recovery day | 21:07 |
| russellb | #topic sub-teams | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sub-teams (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:07 | |
| * johnthetubaguy raises hand | 21:07 | |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: k, you can go first | 21:07 |
| * n0ano scheduler | 21:07 | |
| * hartsocks waves | 21:07 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so, xenapi stuff, making progress with tempest tests | 21:07 |
| *** mrodden1 is now known as mrodden | 21:08 | |
| johnthetubaguy | quite a few blueprint bits and bobs going in | 21:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think thats about all from me | 21:08 |
| russellb | cool, smokestack come back? | 21:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | not that I know of, its a packaging issues | 21:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | danp is on the case though, I am told | 21:09 |
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| russellb | ok | 21:09 |
| russellb | n0ano: scheduler! | 21:09 |
| n0ano | lively discussion this week (I should go away more often) | 21:09 |
| n0ano | instance groups: hope to complete V3 api's for Icehouse | 21:09 |
| n0ano | scalaility: hoping to get info from Boris, goal of ~1000 nodes, simulation vs. real world numbers | 21:09 |
| n0ano | sql vs. nosql: discussed a little, google Omega project is worth looking at | 21:09 |
| n0ano | scheduler as a service: Nova, Cinder & Neutron all need a scheduler, very early on this | 21:09 |
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| n0ano | that's pretty much what we went through for now. | 21:10 |
| russellb | ok, and i think there's a thread starting on openstack-dev about now about the common scheduler | 21:10 |
| russellb | so that's something to watch | 21:10 |
| russellb | i'm very keen on that idea | 21:10 |
| russellb | to just bite the bullet and run with that sooner than later ... with a very tightly limited scope to only replace nova's scheduler to start with | 21:10 |
| n0ano | maybe, neutron's needs are simple so I'm not totally convined we need a separate service but we'll see | 21:11 |
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| russellb | well i think it's more about the information living somewhere common | 21:11 |
| russellb | failure domains, locality | 21:11 |
| russellb | because scheduling instances needs all of that | 21:11 |
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| russellb | but anyway, a hot topic in the next week i expect | 21:12 |
| russellb | let's take it to the list :) | 21:12 |
| n0ano | there are other proposals to have multiple schedulers, reducing failure domains a little but good discussion | 21:12 |
| russellb | OK | 21:12 |
| russellb | hartsocks: you're up | 21:12 |
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| hartsocks | So.. | 21:12 |
| * mriedem1 raises hand after hartsocks | 21:12 | |
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| hartsocks | We have a couple bugs folks marked "Critical" ... | 21:12 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1195139 | 21:12 |
| hartsocks | ... kills the vmware drivers for anyone on postgres it turns out. oops. | 21:12 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1252827 | 21:12 |
| hartsocks | ... kills our CI environment. oops. | 21:12 |
| hartsocks | Still working on priorities for our BP work. We're excited to do something on the configuration validator that will be broadly usable. *woot* | 21:12 |
| * lifeless puts up hand for coordinating the common scheduler stuff :) | 21:12 | |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1195139 in nova "vmware Hyper doesn't report hypervisor version correctly to database" [Critical,In progress] | 21:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1252827 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "VMWARE: Intermittent problem with stats reporting" [Critical,Confirmed] | 21:12 |
| hartsocks | I typed that up ahead of time :-) | 21:13 |
| russellb | lifeless: awesome | 21:13 |
| * melwitt raises hand after mriedem1 | 21:13 | |
| devananda | FWIW, as schedulers go, ironic would probably be involved if there's a general scheduling service, particularly if it starts being aware of failure domains and such | 21:13 |
| hartsocks | The scheduler stuff is really interesting IMHO. | 21:13 |
| russellb | OK, please be careful when using critical ... | 21:14 |
| n0ano | we have weekly meetings on Tues (check the wiki for details), the more the merrier | 21:14 |
| mspreitz | Failure domain awareness is one of the motivating use case for my work on holistic scheduling. | 21:14 |
| yjiang51 | hartsocks: +1 | 21:14 |
| hartsocks | We really want these two to go back soon. | 21:14 |
| hartsocks | back port to Havana that is. | 21:14 |
| hartsocks | Basically our driver kills things if you're on Postgres… and the other bug is killing our CI. :-) | 21:15 |
| russellb | OK, fixes up? | 21:15 |
| hartsocks | yep. or very soon on the way. | 21:15 |
| hartsocks | The DB thing is up now. | 21:15 |
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| russellb | ok cool | 21:16 |
| russellb | anything else? | 21:16 |
| hartsocks | that's my pleading for today. | 21:16 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 21:16 |
| russellb | k! | 21:16 |
| russellb | mriedem1: hi! | 21:16 |
| dansmith | zomg zomg zomg | 21:16 |
| mriedem1 | for powervm we were requesting some core eyes on a review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57774/ | 21:16 |
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| dansmith | I call dibs on +A on that | 21:17 |
| mriedem1 | questions? | 21:17 |
| russellb | heh | 21:17 |
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| mriedem1 | ha, so we should probably tell dperaza | 21:17 |
| russellb | can you please add a link to that review to the ReleaseNotes/Icehouse wiki page? | 21:17 |
| russellb | i think that's the one | 21:17 |
| mriedem1 | he just pushed a change for config drive | 21:17 |
| russellb | fail. | 21:17 |
| mriedem1 | sure | 21:17 |
| dansmith | mriedem1: I just -2d that :D | 21:17 |
| mriedem1 | haha | 21:17 |
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| dperaza | here now | 21:18 |
| dperaza | reading | 21:18 |
| lbragstad | mriedem1: yeah I just saw that. I no longer need at ask my question either :) | 21:18 |
| russellb | well hello there | 21:18 |
| mriedem1 | dperaza: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57774/ | 21:18 |
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| * russellb fine with it if you guys are | 21:18 | |
| mriedem1 | yup | 21:18 |
| mriedem1 | i'll update the wiki | 21:18 |
| russellb | easy enough | 21:18 |
| dansmith | I'm more than fine with it | 21:18 |
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| russellb | should we apply something to stable/havana, like a deprecation log message or something? | 21:19 |
| russellb | just ... in case? | 21:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I would ask questions about deprecation windows but? | 21:19 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: we can if someone wants us to | 21:19 |
| dansmith | russellb: for the principle, yeah, but.. | 21:19 |
| russellb | heh, k | 21:19 |
| * mrodden was wondering about that too | 21:19 | |
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| mrodden | to my knowledge there aren't any external users of it | 21:19 |
| russellb | if it's not possible that anyone would be using it, meh | 21:20 |
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| russellb | what about internal users you don't know about? | 21:20 |
| russellb | anyway, just stuff to consider, no rush | 21:20 |
| mriedem1 | it's us i think | 21:20 |
| russellb | k | 21:20 |
| mriedem1 | i don't need to get into the internal drama here | 21:20 |
| mriedem1 | it's fun, but not here | 21:20 |
| russellb | melwitt: hello! have some novaclient info? | 21:20 |
| russellb | k | 21:20 |
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| melwitt | I have our weekly report. :) | 21:20 |
| melwitt | 105 bugs open !(fix released), 78 bugs open !(fix committed), 35 new bugs, no high priority bugs | 21:20 |
| melwitt | 10 patches up and being actively reviewed and updated or WIP | 21:20 |
| melwitt | and I just started going through cleaning the bug list, trying to reproduce the issues and closing old bugs that have since been fixed | 21:20 |
| melwitt | that's about it | 21:20 |
| russellb | awesome! | 21:21 |
| russellb | really appreciate the bug list cleanup, long overdue | 21:21 |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 21:21 | |
| russellb | if anyone wants to help, please talk to melwitt ! | 21:21 |
| russellb | a good opportunity to contribute :) | 21:21 |
| russellb | probably some good bug fix opportunities in that list | 21:22 |
| russellb | one last thing for sub-teams, since a lot are aronud compute drivers | 21:22 |
| russellb | please see dansmith's post and nice wiki page on the driver deprecation plan ... http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019355.html | 21:22 |
| russellb | we've talked about how we needed to write down more details about the driver testing requirement and deprecation plan, so there it is | 21:23 |
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| russellb | so let us know if you have any questions on any of it! | 21:23 |
| russellb | i think everyone is well aware of the requirements at this point | 21:24 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:24 | |
| russellb | lifeless: hello, bug czar! | 21:24 |
| lifeless | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-bug-triage | 21:24 |
| lifeless | is my current thoughts | 21:24 |
| lifeless | I've now basically finished my massive set of HP paper reviews so I have bandwidth to push this forward | 21:25 |
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| mriedem1 | lifeless: so we talked about this a bit, and i added to the agenda, but wondering about how to handle CI/gate breaker bugs special? | 21:25 |
| mriedem1 | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:25 |
| lifeless | next week I hope to have some metrics, and if we have consensus on the desired properties I will get onto the larger discussion about the exact process to achieve them | 21:25 |
| mriedem1 | i think we should work that into your etherpad somehow | 21:26 |
| mriedem1 | jog0 should have input there | 21:26 |
| lifeless | mriedem1: jeblair's email is what I think the answer is: qa get to say 'X is critical' in any gate related project. | 21:26 |
| mriedem1 | lifeless: yup, his email was good timing | 21:26 |
| jaybuff | if it breaks the gate, why not revert? | 21:26 |
| russellb | it's not always obvious what broke it | 21:26 |
| mriedem1 | jaybuff: sometimes finding what to revert is the problem | 21:26 |
| lifeless | jaybuff: thats certainly an option, where feasible. | 21:26 |
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| russellb | if it was obvious, it wouldn't have made it in | 21:26 |
| jaybuff | i see | 21:27 |
| lifeless | jaybuff: and folk do try that. The point in the bug context isn't /how/ the bug is fixed. | 21:27 |
| lifeless | jaybuff: its 'is such a thing critical'- yes it is. and | 21:27 |
| lifeless | jaybuff: how do we get folk working on it quickly | 21:27 |
| lifeless | essentially crisis management | 21:27 |
| lifeless | mriedem1: So, I don't have a view [yet] on specific tags, but I think having a single tag for recheck issues [which such things are by definition] across all of openstack is desirable | 21:28 |
| jog0 | mriedem1: I agree with everything said | 21:28 |
| russellb | i think jog0 did a great job this week of raising awareness | 21:28 |
| russellb | which is a big part of getting people working on it | 21:29 |
| jog0 | so when gate starts failing, the first step is to find a fingerprint for the bug ideally that will be close to the root cause, but not always | 21:29 |
| russellb | raising awareness, and tracking all the moving pieces | 21:29 |
| lifeless | +1 | 21:29 |
| dansmith | agreed | 21:29 |
| lifeless | anyhow, thats all I have right now | 21:29 |
| russellb | lifeless: cool thanks :) | 21:29 |
| jog0 | then we can actaully see how frequent it occurs. And if its bad we mark as critical | 21:29 |
| jog0 | such as https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1251920 | 21:29 |
| jog0 | which isn't fixed, we just disabled the test | 21:29 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1251920 in nova "Tempest failures due to failure to return console logs from an instance" [Critical,In progress] | 21:29 |
| jog0 | so mikal has some more work on that one i THink | 21:29 |
| jog0 | as we all do | 21:29 |
| mikal | jog0: sigh. | 21:29 |
| jog0 | going forward we need to be more aggressive about fixing gate bugs | 21:30 |
| russellb | that bug is annoying. | 21:30 |
| jog0 | so we never wedge the gate again | 21:30 |
| russellb | jog0: thoughts on how we do that? | 21:30 |
| russellb | if we have a gate critical bug, just lock the gate? | 21:30 |
| clarkb | I did look at that test a little, the one that fails was typically running after the test that was skipped, they run in the same test runner and use the same VM | 21:30 |
| russellb | that's a brute force solution.. | 21:30 |
| clarkb | fyi for whoever ends up actually looking at it. I believe it is an inter test interaction due to test orderign and shared resources | 21:31 |
| jog0 | russellb: well we want to run all gate jobs x times where x > 1 | 21:31 |
| jog0 | but also what jim said in his email | 21:32 |
| jog0 | just do a better job of making sure critical bugs get priority (which why its important to be careful with the critical tag) | 21:32 |
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| russellb | clarkb: interesting | 21:32 |
| russellb | jog0: +1 | 21:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 to using critical sparingly | 21:33 |
| jog0 | also any critical gate issue should be assigned to the next milestone | 21:33 |
| jog0 | at least thats the idea I am going with now | 21:33 |
| jog0 | to help with visibility (there may be a better answer to that though) | 21:34 |
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| cyeoh | jog0: so openstackrecheck reports to irc when a patch fails due to a recognized bug - could it also report how many times it's seen that failure? | 21:34 |
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| jog0 | so we are working on a summery of what happend, in short two bugs took us from unstable gate to wedged in a few days | 21:34 |
| jog0 | cyeoh: we have that but hidden a bit status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ | 21:35 |
| cyeoh | jog0: thx | 21:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have so many jobs now, a small error rate on each adds up to a huge error rate I guess | 21:35 |
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| russellb | right, and with 50 things trying to go in at once, a failure can be really disruptive | 21:35 |
| russellb | and cause a ton of wasted test time | 21:35 |
| jog0 | bingo | 21:35 |
| jog0 | also we are exploring killing 'reverify no bug' | 21:36 |
| jog0 | as that got us here | 21:36 |
| russellb | jog0: nice | 21:36 |
| bnemec | +1 | 21:36 |
| mikal | Yeah, I've only worked on that one bug this week | 21:36 |
| mikal | Its been a huge pain in the ass | 21:36 |
| cyeoh | +1 | 21:36 |
| jog0 | also we are still in critical bug fix only mode | 21:36 |
| jog0 | so no +A yet | 21:36 |
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| jog0 | getting close to being out ofthis though | 21:36 |
| jog0 | mikal: that was a bitch of a bug, and we still don't understand it | 21:36 |
| russellb | but thinking that it might be test interaction? | 21:37 |
| russellb | clarkb's comment a bit ago was very interesting | 21:37 |
| jog0 | russellb: all signs point to yes | 21:37 |
| russellb | a good hint... | 21:37 |
| geekinutah | jog0: I like killing reverify no bug, and recheck no bug | 21:37 |
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| geekinutah | at least we end up classifying things | 21:37 |
| russellb | i do too | 21:37 |
| russellb | it's abused way too much | 21:37 |
| russellb | will be annoying for a few types of failures, but worth it overall i think | 21:38 |
| geekinutah | which gets us closer to figuring out if they are critical, etc | 21:38 |
| jog0 | anyway I don't want to derail the nova meeting, more info coming soon | 21:38 |
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| russellb | jog0: ok, thanks a bunch | 21:38 |
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| russellb | everyone give jog0 a high five | 21:38 |
| russellb | jog0: ^5 | 21:38 |
| russellb | :) | 21:38 |
| jog0 | I would personally like to thank mikal for banging his head against the wall for way too long | 21:38 |
| * bnemec high fives jog0 | 21:38 | |
| russellb | and mikal! | 21:38 |
| russellb | mikal: ^5 | 21:38 |
| mikal | jog0: you're welcome | 21:38 |
| mspreitz | me ^5 | 21:38 |
| * mspreitz ^5 | 21:38 | |
| * bnemec high fives mikal | 21:38 | |
| jog0 | \o/ to all | 21:39 |
| cyeoh | jog0, mikal: ^5 | 21:39 |
| * bnemec is starting to feel like a cheerleader | 21:39 | |
| * johnthetubaguy jog0 mikal ^6 | 21:39 | |
| dripton | be careful with the double high fives; you might fall over | 21:39 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: ooh | 21:39 |
| mriedem1 | bnemec: the skirt might have something to do with that | 21:39 |
| russellb | alright, next topic :) | 21:39 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 21:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:39 | |
| * mriedem1 raises hand | 21:39 | |
| mriedem1 | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/020041.html | 21:39 |
| russellb | we made some really good progress in the last week getting icehouse-1 in shape | 21:39 |
| russellb | roadmap wise | 21:39 |
| russellb | i suspect a bunch won't make it that's there though | 21:40 |
| russellb | merges need to be in by 1.5 weeks fro mnow | 21:40 |
| russellb | and that includes a long US holiday weekend ... | 21:40 |
| russellb | and the gate issues ... so ... | 21:40 |
| geekinutah | throws a wrench in things | 21:40 |
| russellb | please move things to icehouse-2 that you know won't make it, that will save some paperwork as we approach the milestone | 21:40 |
| russellb | also, here's my latest email to the ML on the Icehouse roadmap status in general | 21:40 |
| russellb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019786.html | 21:40 |
| russellb | i short: icehouse-1 looking good | 21:41 |
| russellb | in* | 21:41 |
| russellb | nova-core folks need to start sponsoring some blueprints | 21:41 |
| russellb | and nova-drivers, we still have some work to do for icehouse-2 and 3 | 21:41 |
| russellb | lots of work now early in the cycle, but should calm down in a few weeks | 21:41 |
| russellb | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/icehouse | 21:41 |
| russellb | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/icehouse | 21:41 |
| russellb | that's the full icehouse list | 21:41 |
| russellb | 90 blueprints earlier today | 21:41 |
| russellb | OH, i think a bunch are missing still too | 21:42 |
| russellb | for things we talked about summit ... so get your blueprints posted :) | 21:42 |
| russellb | i think that's all i had ... now on to specific ones! | 21:42 |
| russellb | mriedem1: ok now you can go | 21:42 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: was just going to point out some relate bps, | 21:42 |
| mriedem1 | about supporting v2 APIs for cinder and glance | 21:42 |
| mriedem1 | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/020041.html | 21:42 |
| mriedem1 | i wanted to raise attention since the ML thread kind of died | 21:43 |
| mriedem1 | but now there is a patch to do the same for cinder v2 so bringing it back up | 21:43 |
| mriedem1 | since you guys are reviewing blueprints | 21:43 |
| russellb | OK | 21:43 |
| russellb | so, trying to remember where we left that one ... | 21:44 |
| russellb | deployers still want a knob to force it to one or the other | 21:44 |
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| mriedem1 | right, but there were thoughts on discovery | 21:44 |
| russellb | in the absense of config, we want some automatic version discovery | 21:44 |
| mriedem1 | and the keystone service catalog | 21:44 |
| mriedem1 | essentially can the service catalog abstract a lot of this garbage from nova | 21:44 |
| russellb | i think the catalog should be to discover the endpoint, not the versions it has | 21:44 |
| russellb | and then you talk to the endpoint to do discovery | 21:44 |
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| russellb | and cache it so you don't double up on API requests for everything | 21:45 |
| russellb | IMO | 21:45 |
| mriedem1 | yeah, cache on startup | 21:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: +1 it seems a good end goal | 21:45 |
| russellb | cool | 21:45 |
| mriedem1 | i just wasn't sure if jog0 was working something else related to the service catalog that interacted with this | 21:46 |
| cyeoh | russellb: agreed. There's been a bit of a discussion about version discovery given that catalog entries for specific versions of apis have started to appear | 21:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | well its cached per user though, its a little tricky | 21:46 |
| jog0 | we should make sure keystone agrees with this idea | 21:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we also have list of glance servers to round robin, not sure how that fits in the keystone catelog, I guess it might | 21:47 |
| jog0 | also we cache the keystone catalog for cinder already | 21:47 |
| russellb | mriedem1: can you ping dolph and get him to weigh in? | 21:47 |
| jog0 | in the context | 21:47 |
| russellb | mriedem1: and maybe summarize what we said here? | 21:47 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 21:47 |
| cyeoh | for some apis we might need one version specific catalog entry temporarily as the endpoints often currently point to a specific version rather than the root | 21:47 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: sure | 21:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cyeoh: yeah, I agree, we probably need those for the short term | 21:48 |
| russellb | great thanks! | 21:48 |
| russellb | OK, well thanks for raising awareness of this | 21:49 |
| jog0 | mriedem1: FYI the only thing I worked on was not saving the entire keystone catalog in the context and that was a while ago | 21:49 |
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| mriedem1 | jog0: ok, i'll ping you in nova | 21:49 |
| jog0 | mriedem1: ack | 21:49 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:50 | |
| russellb | mriedem1: you're on tire with topics today | 21:50 |
| russellb | fire, too | 21:50 |
| mriedem1 | my other one is open discussion | 21:50 |
| dolphm | mriedem1: russellb: +1 for the bits about cached version discovery against unversioned endpoints in the catalog | 21:50 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: so i'll defer for now | 21:50 |
| russellb | dolphm: woot, that was quick | 21:51 |
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| russellb | mriedem1: open discussion time now | 21:51 |
| mriedem1 | christ | 21:51 |
| mriedem1 | ok, so oslo-sync | 21:51 |
| mriedem1 | ML: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019098.html | 21:51 |
| mriedem1 | Important because of lifeless's sync for the recent gate breakage: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57509/ and then this:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57511/ | 21:51 |
| * lbragstad lurks... | 21:51 | |
| dolphm | i just hope that the version discovery mechanism is smart enough to realize when it's handed a versioned endpoint, and happily run with that | 21:51 |
| mriedem1 | there seems to be some debate here | 21:51 |
| mriedem1 | bnemec: lifeless ^ | 21:51 |
| dolphm | (by calling that endpoint and doing proper discovery) | 21:52 |
| bnemec | o/ | 21:52 |
| russellb | dolphm: yeah, need to handle that gracefully ... | 21:52 |
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| bnemec | Full Oslo syncs are scary right now, for sure. | 21:52 |
| russellb | not sure we can really tackle the oslo thing now | 21:52 |
| russellb | it's really a cross project issue | 21:52 |
| russellb | and we'd need dhellmann | 21:52 |
| russellb | it might be a good topic for the cross-project weekly meeting on tuesdays | 21:52 |
| mriedem1 | yeah, just another timely thing for the gate issues this week and the ML thread | 21:53 |
| * russellb nods | 21:53 | |
| russellb | definitely important, but bigger than nova i think | 21:53 |
| mriedem1 | totally | 21:53 |
| mikal | I've been trying to slowly sync the things I maintain | 21:53 |
| mikal | I feel its mostly a maintainter thing | 21:53 |
| mriedem1 | last full sync was march | 21:53 |
| mikal | And random people shouldn't be doing super syncs they don't know about | 21:53 |
| russellb | would like to hear what dhellmann thinks is the future here | 21:53 |
| russellb | mikal: yep | 21:53 |
| russellb | and aggressively moving toward libs | 21:53 |
| jog0 | russellb: agreed, good tuesday chat | 21:53 |
| mikal | russellb: I feel the interface stability thing is still a good argument for the current way for some things | 21:54 |
| lifeless | I think we should not be syncing at all | 21:54 |
| lifeless | oslo should be a library[6~ | 21:54 |
| mikal | russellb: libs would be just as bad for changed interfaces | 21:54 |
| lifeless | we can solve the interface stability concerns | 21:54 |
| russellb | for the tuesday chat, please ask ttx to put it on the agenda | 21:54 |
| mriedem1 | i'll take that TODO | 21:54 |
| mriedem1 | since i raised it | 21:54 |
| hartsocks | When is this on Tuesday? I want to learn what's going on there… I'm confused on OSLO. | 21:54 |
| russellb | perfect | 21:54 |
| mikal | lifeless: it would be exactly the same work, just a different mechanism | 21:54 |
| lifeless | mikal: no, it wouldn't | 21:55 |
| russellb | hartsocks: we've had a project release status meeting at the same time as this meeting for a long time | 21:55 |
| russellb | but we've changed the format, to be more discussion based for cross-project topics | 21:55 |
| hartsocks | russellb: okay, I'll lurk that one. | 21:55 |
| russellb | instead of weekly release status syncing | 21:55 |
| russellb | yeah it should be a good one | 21:55 |
| russellb | if you're interested in cross project issues anyway | 21:55 |
| russellb | which everyone should be to some degree :) | 21:55 |
| hartsocks | recently becoming a problem for us... | 21:56 |
| * bnemec adds it to his calendar | 21:56 | |
| hartsocks | :-) | 21:56 |
| russellb | i'll be doing the release status sync with ttx in a 1-1 chat | 21:56 |
| russellb | but in a public channel | 21:56 |
| mikal | As performance art | 21:56 |
| russellb | it's 1515 UTC tuesday | 21:56 |
| russellb | if anyone cares :) | 21:56 |
| russellb | right now in #openstack-dev | 21:57 |
| russellb | we go through bugs/blueprint status for the upcoming milestone, and the release roadmap (icehouse) in general | 21:57 |
| mriedem1 | is this the link? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#OpenStack_Project_.26_Release_Status_meeting | 21:57 |
| lifeless | mikal: I will be happy to discuss with you later about this | 21:57 |
| russellb | make sure we have movement on the highest priority things, etc | 21:57 |
| russellb | mriedem1: yes | 21:57 |
| mriedem1 | looks like the wiki has the wrong time | 21:57 |
| mikal | lifeless: sure, more than happy to, but pleae try to understand the historical reasons for the way things are first before assuming we're all wrong | 21:58 |
| lifeless | mikal: I was here when the decision was made. | 21:58 |
| lifeless | mikal: I know the historical reason :) | 21:58 |
| russellb | mriedem1: why is the time wrong? says 2100 UTC, same as this meeting | 21:58 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: thought you just said it's 1515 | 21:59 |
| mriedem1 | i must be confused | 21:59 |
| russellb | oh, no, that's my weekly nova status sync | 21:59 |
| mriedem1 | ah, ok | 21:59 |
| russellb | the above 2100 UTC meeting is the cross-project meeting | 21:59 |
| mriedem1 | yeah | 21:59 |
| mriedem1 | times up | 22:00 |
| mriedem1 | this has been fun | 22:00 |
| russellb | alright, time up for today! | 22:00 |
| russellb | thanks everyone! | 22:00 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| mriedem1 | later | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 22:00:22 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-11-21-21.01.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-11-21-21.01.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-11-21-21.01.log.html | 22:00 |
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