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| saschpe | david-lyle: hi, sorry for missing the recent discussing about lesscpy, I'll reply to jtomasek's mail. I've been on FTO lately. | 07:24 |
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| david-lyle | saschpe: no worries and thank you | 14:35 |
| saschpe | david-lyle: sure | 14:36 |
| david-lyle | saschpe: seems like you've been able to get several pull requests merged. Are you the only active contributor, and do you have any idea how far we are from a working solution? | 14:37 |
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| saschpe | david-lyle: being able to compile bootstrap needs at least two fixes, the "clip" property and variables in @media. I already started to work on the former and it shouldn't be too hard. I'll try to get sth done tomorrow | 14:39 |
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| david-lyle | saschpe: that's great! jtomasek implied you might need help, is that true? | 14:43 |
| david-lyle | sounds like things are already progressing nicely | 14:44 |
| saschpe | david-lyle: well, help is always appreciated. actually I'm pretty busy already :-) | 14:44 |
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| jtomasek | saschpe: thanks again for looking into it | 14:46 |
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| BobBall | Afternoon John! | 15:02 |
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| BobBall | Wasn't expecting you to make it today! | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hello | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | have you started up yet? | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I will if not | 15:02 |
| BobBall | nope | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 23 15:03:55 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so has anyone got anything today? shall we go through things as normal? | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Mate's just popping in | 15:04 |
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| BobBall | Actually I've got one thing I saw on the ML that's worth raising | 15:04 |
| matel | hi | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Quite an interesting one | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | I got to my hotel | 15:05 |
| BobBall | it's this gerrit script | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | on the free 30mins wifi | 15:05 |
| BobBall | subject gerrit tools | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:05 |
| BobBall | oh - let's make sure the meeting is < 30 minutes then! | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:05 | |
| BobBall | Just a very cool patch from Daniel P. Berrange about getting information on which changesets have been uploaded to gerrit | 15:05 |
| BobBall | I've been waiting for him to come on IRC so I could just check if he knew about getting gerrit to watch the changes for you | 15:06 |
| BobBall | because i've got that working for Xen and the way I read his email was that he might not have it for the libvirt stuff he's interested in | 15:06 |
| BobBall | Incidentally, the watch I've got on Xen pointed out a tool that's just been changed to help delete orphan VMs that I didn't know existed! | 15:07 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53362/ That was this one :) | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK cool | 15:07 |
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| BobBall | so it's worth watching for gerrit_view for when daniel's changes are merged | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | hellova lot easier to find changes | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, yeah, I not really played with any of that stuff recently | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | well it's brand new isn't it? | 15:08 |
| BobBall | ah well - doesn't matter | 15:09 |
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| BobBall | So - the other thing to talk about is xenserver-core | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:09 |
| BobBall | Mate's been working on automatically setting up a Ubuntu environment for it | 15:09 |
| BobBall | How's that going Mate? | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | interesting, Ubuntu? what bits Ubuntu? | 15:10 |
| matel | It's okay, atm the package build is broken, but i am doing infrastructural stuff, so not there yet. | 15:10 |
| matel | raring | 15:10 |
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| matel | xenserver-core on raring | 15:10 |
| matel | really cool stuff, amazing. | 15:10 |
| BobBall | I think the next build should pass - we brought back a bug when fixing iscsi stuff on xenserver-core | 15:10 |
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| BobBall | Speaking of which... | 15:10 |
| matel | john: it's the new xcp-xapi | 15:11 |
| BobBall | Some fun things have been found when trying to use xenserver-core with openstack | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | matel: cool, thanks | 15:11 |
| BobBall | such as XenServer's use of patched open-iscsi | 15:11 |
| BobBall | we were using a custom patch to allow us to use per-connection CHAP details | 15:11 |
| BobBall | which openstack uses | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, fun | 15:12 |
| BobBall | but we were doing it way before upstream supported it | 15:12 |
| BobBall | so that's why we made our own in-house patch (bad XenServer!) | 15:12 |
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| BobBall | Anyway - it's highlighting all of the things that we're having to fix anyway in the upstreaming / open sourcing efforts | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah yes, good to fix that | 15:12 |
| BobBall | that one had already been fixed as it happens - but there is another one with the custom changes to LVM which we're having to work around too | 15:13 |
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| BobBall | The current status is we have xenserver-core hosts which run VMs started through openstack (although exercises.sh currently fails as we have the wrong version of the SM code which is still relying on our custom patches for open-iscsi) | 15:13 |
| BobBall | watch this space for the fix to that | 15:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool, so everything but volumes? | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | in the exercises? | 15:14 |
| BobBall | yes | 15:14 |
| BobBall | well | 15:14 |
| BobBall | volumes and euca which both fail on volumes | 15:14 |
| matel | I think we are really close. | 15:14 |
| BobBall | I can smell victory | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a nice smell | 15:15 |
| BobBall | So we're expecting to have a demo of xenserver-core doing live migrations for the summit | 15:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I guess, summit wise, its worth saying the session is looking well prepared now | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | live-migrate is always a cool demo | 15:15 |
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| BobBall | Live-migration with a xen-based hypervisor running on your own distro is even cooler. | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | true | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | Yeah | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | in some ways you living so close is a shame | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | so any more for any more? | 15:17 |
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| BobBall | because it means we had a real meeting to walk through the summit and it wasn't on IRC! | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol | 15:17 |
| BobBall | But anyone who wants to see the output can check out the etherpad | 15:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | you got the link handy? | 15:17 |
| BobBall | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/IcehouseXenAPIRoadmap | 15:17 |
| BobBall | I do indeed | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks | 15:17 |
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| BobBall | I don't have more | 15:18 |
| BobBall | as we said - much of it was discussed offline | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | me neither | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | are we all good for next week? | 15:18 |
| matel | suresure | 15:18 |
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| BobBall | Although I'm not | 15:19 |
| BobBall | I'm on hodaliy | 15:19 |
| BobBall | holiday* | 15:19 |
| BobBall | I need one - hence the spelling. | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, no worries, enjoy | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | anything more before the summit? | 15:19 |
| BobBall | nah | 15:20 |
| BobBall | think we're good | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | sweet | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | have a good day all | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | you too | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | see you next week or in HK | 15:20 |
| BobBall | enjoy your flight! | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | any you | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | and you | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 23 15:20:46 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-10-23-15.03.html | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-10-23-15.03.txt | 15:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-10-23-15.03.log.html | 15:20 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 23 16:01:55 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | Hey everyone | 16:02 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:02 |
| avishay | hello | 16:02 |
| jjacob512 | hello | 16:02 |
| xyang1 | hi | 16:02 |
| DuncanT | hey | 16:02 |
| eharney | hey | 16:02 |
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| aguzikova | o/ | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: take it away... | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | #topic nexenta backup driver | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nexenta backup driver (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| DuncanT | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47005/ | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: and I have already discussed BTW :) | 16:02 |
| med_ | \o | 16:02 |
| DuncanT | Short version: I think it's a terrible idea, a bad trend, and even if it wasn't then I think it's a bad implementation | 16:03 |
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| caitlin56 | Which patch specifically? | 16:03 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:03 |
| DuncanT | I'm happy to be convinsed otherwise however and I'm not going to get upset if people tell me I'm wrong | 16:03 |
| avishay | don't be too subtle about how you feel :) | 16:03 |
| dosaboy | :) | 16:03 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47005/ | 16:04 |
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| caitlin56 | Ok, this one should be short. I agree. | 16:04 |
| DuncanT | Nice :-) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | Well that was easy | 16:04 |
| caitlin56 | The objectives are good, but we need to repackage them in a way that deals wsith Duncan's points. | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: ummm... wait | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: might be missing the point, not sure | 16:05 |
| dosaboy | and (while we're at it) could you make sure metadata backup is factored in | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: which *objectives* exactly are good in your opinion? | 16:05 |
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| caitlin56 | Using other servers to make replicas of your content in cost effective ways. Notice that I'm avoiding using the term "backup". | 16:06 |
| avishay | caitlin56: what is the scenario? tiering? | 16:07 |
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| rushiagr2 | hi all! | 16:07 |
| rushiagr2 | sry, late | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | rushiagr: howdy | 16:07 |
| avishay | caitlin56: i.e., copy the volume over and then delete it, and restore if you want to use again? | 16:07 |
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| DuncanT | That's fair. I think we need to get a clear aim around backup and keep it focused... | 16:07 |
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| caitlin56 | Disaster recovery, warm standby, pre-migration. | 16:08 |
| caitlin56 | I can replicate content between two like servers more effectively than I can create a vendor neutral "Backup". | 16:08 |
| guitarzan | I think it's sensible to have more than just the swift backup driver | 16:08 |
| DuncanT | Backend migration / cross-backend cloning is a better for this than backup I think | 16:08 |
| avishay | and here i am coding up a prototype of volume mirroring... | 16:08 |
| DuncanT | guitarzan: There#s already ceph and TSM... | 16:08 |
| caitlin56 | avishay: or just copy it to other targets in case the first target fails. | 16:08 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT: I'll take that as a point for me :) | 16:08 |
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| guitarzan | but this patch does seem to do a lot more than just that | 16:09 |
| avishay | caitlin56: HA / DR | 16:09 |
| caitlin56 | Volume mirroring is "hot standby", correct? Each write is *immediately* transferred? | 16:09 |
| avishay | caitlin56: correct | 16:09 |
| caitlin56 | This is lower cost, replicate periodically. | 16:09 |
| avishay | caitlin56: actually, no | 16:09 |
| caitlin56 | Not continuously. | 16:09 |
| avishay | caitlin56: there can be sync, async, snapshots at intervals, etc. | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so questions | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: Are you talking backup or replication? | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: replication is not backup | 16:10 |
| avishay | backup can be thought of as replication with high RPO :) | 16:10 |
| caitlin56 | Replication can be a method of providing extra copies of a volume. | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ewww | 16:10 |
| caitlin56 | That is also the purpose of a "backup". | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | alright, I'm out | 16:11 |
| avishay | lol | 16:11 |
| caitlin56 | Backup can also be vendor neutral, but at a cost that may be too high. | 16:11 |
| avishay | i didn't say i like it, but it's true | 16:11 |
| avishay | and people use it | 16:11 |
| caitlin56 | vendor neutral backup is bettr, but it is also more expensive. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | avishay: understood | 16:11 |
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| DuncanT | The backup API is aimed at offline, cinder-can-catch-fire-and-your-data-is-safe style backups, and I'd like to try to keep that focus | 16:12 |
| caitlin56 | We have NexentaStor customers who use ZFS send incremental replication to "backup" ZVols. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: so what's your point? | 16:12 |
| caitlin56 | We want to be able to let them do the same thing under Cinder. The first draft didn't do it right. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: that's fine, lots of vendors do replication | 16:12 |
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| thingee | I keep seeing "hot" and "warm". Lets be clear that backups are cold. | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +1 | 16:13 |
| winston-d | thingee: +1 | 16:13 |
| thingee | if you're not doing that, you're not implementing something for the backup service. | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | I really prefer to keep the contexts separate | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | thingee: +1 | 16:13 |
| caitlin56 | thingee: agreed, so calling this a "Backup" was a mistake. | 16:13 |
| bswartz | I think there are more gray areas than people are admitting to | 16:13 |
| avishay | so what i will propose at the summit will allow back-ends (and front-ends) to implement replication however they want | 16:13 |
| bswartz | hot backups do exist -- for different reasons than cold backups do | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: there are but we have a chance to make some definitions in Cidner and I think we should | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | I think havign a replication interface and API is great, I just don't want it merging into backups | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: +1 | 16:14 |
| avishay | DuncanT: agreed | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: +1 million | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | That's my point | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | TBH I'm still a little leary on replication API's / interfaces in some sense | 16:15 |
| bswartz | Yes I like the idea of drawing the lines in the sand -- just don't prentend that the reality is black and white | 16:15 |
| winston-d | so it's just a naming problem? | 16:15 |
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| caitlin56 | But I agree that we should use different terminology,and keep Ciner "Backups" vendor neutral. | 16:15 |
| avishay | i think the difference could be: if you write a bit and do nothing, and it gets copied eventually, it's replication. if you have to click the 'backup' button, it's backup. | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | most vendors are going to have their own replication options that are much better than anythign we're goign to do at a generic level | 16:15 |
| med_ | +1 jgriffith | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | avishay: not a bad summary IMO | 16:15 |
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| caitlin56 | avishay: but what if you have the script push the backup button for you? It's more of a continuum. | 16:15 |
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| avishay | caitlin56: i know, that's what i said before, but i agree with jgriffith - we should try to define a difference | 16:16 |
| caitlin56 | I think the bigger difference is whether you are in vendor specific format. | 16:17 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: Come up with a specific usecase and we can discuss it... vague hypotheticals aren't going to help I don't think | 16:17 |
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| caitlin56 | Backups should be vendor neutral. Replication can be vendor optimized. | 16:17 |
| caitlin56 | DuncantT: I'm working on that presentation for Hong Kong. | 16:17 |
| avishay | maybe ideally | 16:17 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: I haven't looked at backup code for quite a while, so is it possible to back one volume from back-end A up to back-end B now? | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: nope | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | 'vendor neutral' isn't a useful term here I don't think | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: Nope, and it isn't meant for that | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: we shelved that for avishay 's migration work | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | or that was my plan anyway | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | (what John said) | 16:18 |
| caitlin56 | But that is the intent, correct? Otherwise why object to vendor specific "backup"? | 16:19 |
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| DuncanT | Backup is aimed at cold, logically remote storage, and I'd like to keep that focus | 16:19 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: oh, right, that was a wrong question. i meant to ask if backup service can live standalone (not staying on the same host of vol service). | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | Ceph could be thought of as a vendor, TSM certainly is | 16:19 |
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| DuncanT | winston-d: I'm not sure that works for all drivers yet, but it is the aim and if you find cases that don't work, please file a bug | 16:20 |
| dosaboy | winston-d: to be clear (as mud?) you can backup a volume created in any backend to any supported backup location | 16:20 |
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| caitlin56 | Duncant: and since it is less frequent there is no reason for it not be in a vendor neutral format. | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | dosaboy: +1, I've tested a few and works good thanks to your patch | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: It is volume-backend neutral, if that is what you mean | 16:21 |
| dosaboy | cool thanks | 16:21 |
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| caitlin56 | DuncantT: yes. | 16:21 |
| winston-d | dosaboy: will take a look, thx for clarification | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: Ah, yes, very much so, and that totally needs to stay | 16:21 |
| avishay | ceph to ceph has special optimizations i think, but it should work for any backend | 16:22 |
| caitlin56 | DuncanT: Fine, but lets add methods short of full live mirroring where customers can replicate content. | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: Yup, I think the replication interface is the place for that, not the backup one | 16:22 |
| caitlin56 | avishay: vendor optimizations on how stuff is creat3ed is fine. | 16:22 |
| avishay | agreed | 16:22 |
| caitlin56 | agreed. | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | I'm still a bit of the opinion that replication is an admin function set up for each back-end external of cinder but whatever | 16:23 |
| avishay | all agreed? we should save some arguments for the summit...will be boring otherwise... :) | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ha! | 16:23 |
| dosaboy | isn't there a new "data protection" project being introduced in HK that aims to take care of replication? | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | avishay: haven't you heard, there's new rules for the summit | 16:23 |
| dosaboy | the name alludes me | 16:23 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: An in-cinder api for setting replication parameters for a volume isn't a bad aim... | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | avishay: no raising of voices, no arguing, peace, harmony and love | 16:23 |
| avishay | jgriffith: sounds good to me | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: there's a backup service proposals | 16:24 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: be 'excellent' ? | 16:24 |
| avishay | dosaboy: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/88 | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | proposal | 16:24 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: any project that doesn'tintegrate with cinder volume backends won't beefficient enough to use. | 16:24 |
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| med_ | jgriffith, I was thinking boxing gloves and waterguns to cool off the hostilities | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | I'm going to throw a definition of'cinder backup' on the wiki somewhere while there are some good phrases to steal | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, anything else on this topic (anything productive that is)? | 16:26 |
| * jungleboyj is here now. :-) | 16:26 | |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: just in time, we're finished :) | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | alright, DuncanT good for now? | 16:27 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Doh! What did I miss? These darn short meetings! ;-) | 16:27 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: Very much so | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: anything needed for the meeting? | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: An impressive lack of argument for a change | 16:27 |
| winston-d | side track, how many of you will be in HK | 16:27 |
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| * bswartz raises hand | 16:27 | |
| jgriffith | o/ | 16:28 |
| avishay | i will | 16:28 |
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| guitarzan | o/ | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | I will | 16:28 |
| rushiagr | I *most probably* will | 16:28 |
| xyang1 | I'll be there | 16:28 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: no,just gettingready for Hong Kong sessions. | 16:28 |
| eharney | i will | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: :-) Indeed. | 16:28 |
| winston-d | bswartz: you should be right? | 16:28 |
| bswartz | yes NetApp is brining a bunch of folks to HK | 16:28 |
| * med_ lowers his hand in shane | 16:28 | |
| jgriffith | #topic open discssuion | 16:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discssuion (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:28 | |
| * med_ lowers his hand in shame | 16:28 | |
| jgriffith | shane, shame... not sure which is better/worse | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:29 |
| * dosaboy might be, not sure yet | 16:29 | |
| * jungleboyj will be there in spirit. :-) | 16:29 | |
| kmartin | not me :( | 16:29 |
| avishay | so nobody is brave enough to try volume retype yet? | 16:29 |
| bswartz | dosaboy: it's only 1.5 weeks away! | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | damn you kmartin | 16:29 |
| winston-d | kmartin: really? too bad | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | avishay: it's on my list :) | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'm hoping this week | 16:30 |
| avishay | cool | 16:30 |
| * jgriffith is a bit preoccupied with other business this week | 16:30 | |
| winston-d | avishay: haven't reviewed it, not dare to try. :) | 16:30 |
| rushiagr | avishay: I'll give it a try too in the comng week | 16:30 |
| kmartin | sending me to the AWS re:invent conference instead...yippy | 16:30 |
| xyang1 | kmartin: too bad:( | 16:30 |
| avishay | awesome | 16:30 |
| dosaboy | bswrtz: i know ;) | 16:30 |
| avishay | kmartin: sucks, next time! | 16:30 |
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| kmartin | yep, hemna is going to HK | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | alright.. we can jibber jabber in #cinder if there's nothign pressing here? | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | I have a feeling this Iowa boy would have been lost in HK. | 16:31 |
| winston-d | hemnafk seems to prepared a big shopping list for HK | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: :) | 16:31 |
| hemna | well, sure a guy can always have a list :) | 16:31 |
| avishay | jgriffith: any update on the testing suite deal? | 16:31 |
| xyang1 | kmartin: that's good | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: :) not really | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: it's on it's way though | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | will be submitted before the summit I promise :) | 16:32 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: HK summit? :) | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: LOL touchet | 16:32 |
| rushiagr | avishay: LOL | 16:32 |
| med_ | heh | 16:32 |
| med_ | "before the summit" well played. | 16:32 |
| winston-d | ohoh, Advertisement: please take a look at this doc if you are interested in QoS: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_DEvlzXwOd3bQ4NqXmAS6gIdz0Lja6XJ1MZyNtYSicY/edit?usp=sharing | 16:33 |
| winston-d | and let me know if you have any comment. it's 90% ready. Will do some cleanup | 16:33 |
| avishay | winston-d: will this go into openstack-manuals? | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: thanks for pointing that out | 16:33 |
| kmartin | winston-d: +1 and thanks for all the work | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | alright.. .anyone else? | 16:33 |
| bswartz | winston-d: nice document | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | lets wrap this up and move to #cinder | 16:34 |
| avishay | sounds good | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 23 16:34:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:34 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-10-23-16.01.html | 16:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-10-23-16.01.txt | 16:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-10-23-16.01.log.html | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | thanks everyone!! | 16:34 |
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| rushiagr | thanks all! | 16:34 |
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| winston-d | wc | 16:37 |
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| hartsocks | go-go-gadget meeting time | 17:00 |
| tjones | hi | 17:00 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 23 17:00:12 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | hi all | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | I'm back. | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | Did you miss me? | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | Raise a hand if you did :-) | 17:00 |
| tjones | I DID!!! | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:00 |
| tjones | :-D | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | I'm still reading my old emails but I'm reading from newest to oldest so if there's something you need me to help on, please re-send… it'll get taken care of sooner (and perhaps twice even). | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | One time I actually read all my emails and I didn't know what to do. | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | Then the problem went away. | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | Vui said he'd be online later so we might see him. | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | Anybody else around? | 17:03 |
| sarvind | sarvind ; I'm here. first time for the irc meeting | 17:03 |
| tjones | welcome sarvind | 17:04 |
| tjones | i may start calling you that face to face ;-) | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | Well, let's get rolling then... | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | #topic bugs | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:06 | |
| hartsocks | #link http://goo.gl/uD7VDR | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | here's a query on launchpad that combs for open bugs … new , in progress, etc. | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | We have a few that's popped up since last week. | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | Looks like 5 or so. | 17:08 |
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| hartsocks | This one troubles me... | 17:09 |
| smurugesan | This is sabari here. Hi All. | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1241350 | 17:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241350 in nova "VMware: Detaching a volume from an instance also deletes the volume's backing vmdk" [Undecided,In progress] | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | hey sabari! | 17:09 |
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| danwent | hi folks, garyk says he is having technical issues with his irc client | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | okay. | 17:10 |
| tjones | looks like that is out for review | 17:10 |
| danwent | (he let me know via skype, apparently a more reliable channel) | 17:10 |
| sarvind | i'd trouble with the irc client as well switched to the webchat for now | 17:10 |
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| hartsocks | okay. | 17:11 |
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| garyk | hi | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | My plan for today is just to hit bugs, then blueprints, then HK summit stuff. | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | Hey gary. | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | We were just talking about #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1241350 | 17:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241350 in nova "VMware: Detaching a volume from an instance also deletes the volume's backing vmdk" [Undecided,In progress] | 17:11 |
| garyk | that is a critical issue - hopefully we can get it backported asap | 17:12 |
| tjones | jay has it out for review | 17:12 |
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| garyk | there are some minor issues with test cases. but nothing blocking | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | okay good. | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1243222 | 17:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1243222 in nova "VMware: Detach leaves volume in inconsistent state" [Undecided,New] | 17:13 |
| garyk | i am currently working on that | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:14 |
| garyk | it is when a snaptshot takes place on the instance | 17:14 |
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| hartsocks | you've confirmed it then? | 17:14 |
| garyk | confirmed the bug? | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | yes. So it can be marked "confirmed" not "new" or something else? | 17:15 |
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| garyk | i'll mark it as confirmed | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | groovy. | 17:16 |
| danwent | garyk: ok, so that only happens when a snapshot is done? | 17:16 |
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| danwent | the title does not indicate that anywhere, making it sound much larger :) | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | heh. good point. | 17:17 |
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| garyk | the issues is as follows: when we do a snapshot we ready the disk from the hardware summary. problem is that due to tge fact that there are 2 disks we do not read the right disk | 17:17 |
| garyk | this causes us to snapshot the cinder disk instead of the nova disk. | 17:17 |
| danwent | we seem to have a problem with that in general, giving bugs very general titles that make things seem very broken | 17:17 |
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| garyk | danwent: correct. we need to work on our descriptions | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | I've edited the title to describe step 4 in the repro steps. | 17:18 |
| danwent | ok, i'll send a note to the list just to remind people about this | 17:18 |
| tjones | danwent: we went to keep you on your toes | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | *lol* what's wrong with: "broken-ness all things happen bad" ? | 17:18 |
| danwent | tjones: or the hospital? i almost had a heart attack when i saw that | 17:19 |
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| hartsocks | I see things like that and I usually say, "yeah right" | 17:19 |
| tjones | :-P | 17:19 |
| tjones | garyk: did this break in tempest or do we need to add more tests? | 17:20 |
| danwent | or wait, that's a different bug than I thought we were talking about | 17:20 |
| danwent | one sec | 17:20 |
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| garyk | tjones: i do not think that this is covered in tempest - if it is, it does not really check the validiaty of the disks | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | This is a good point... | 17:21 |
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| garyk | danwent: there are 2 bugs which are very closely related - they may even be the same | 17:21 |
| danwent | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1241350 | 17:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241350 in nova "VMware: Detaching a volume from an instance also deletes the volume's backing vmdk" [High,In progress] | 17:21 |
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| danwent | is the one i saw | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | yeah. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | That was top of my list too. | 17:21 |
| garyk | that bug already has a patch upstream. that is a blocker | 17:22 |
| garyk | we have discussed hat a few minutes ago | 17:22 |
| danwent | i'm confused, does this mean any use of volumes is broken? | 17:22 |
| garyk | danwent: something changed as this is a screio that we have done a million times | 17:23 |
| garyk | i am not sure if it is in cinder. nothing on our side was chnaged here (we also have this in a lab) | 17:23 |
| danwent | yeah, that is my sense too. | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | slow down guys. | 17:23 |
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| hartsocks | This looks like more bad naming confusion here. | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | If I'm reading this line right... | 17:24 |
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| hartsocks | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/vmwareapi/vm_util.py#L471 | 17:24 |
| garyk | i think that subbu and kartik were looking deeepr at the status of the disk and that may have highlighted the problem | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | assuming the bug reporter was linking correctly… this means the | 17:24 |
| garyk | hartsocks: that is what the fix addresses | 17:24 |
| garyk | there are two cases | 17:24 |
| garyk | 1. a consolidated disk needs to be deleted | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | nova volume-detach | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | calls the delete volume code | 17:24 |
| garyk | 2. a detachment does not need to be deleted | 17:24 |
| danwent | one at a time please :) | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | def delete_virtual_disk_spec( | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | which is not the right thing to do. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | Since deleting is not detaching. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | So. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | I'm saying: | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | delete is not detatch. | 17:25 |
| garyk | please look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52645/ | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | great. | 17:26 |
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| hartsocks | I was scared there for a second. | 17:26 |
| danwent | ok, so we can we up a level and talk about impact on customer? | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | So the impact. | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | can only be on | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | the nova created vmdk right? | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | this can't be bleeding into cinder somehow? | 17:27 |
| garyk | hartsocks: danwent: no the problem is the cinder volume | 17:27 |
| garyk | the 'detachment' 'deletes' the cinder volume. | 17:27 |
| garyk | due to the fact that it is attached to a empty vm it will not be deleted but may turn into read only | 17:28 |
| garyk | so it the case is we have instance X | 17:28 |
| garyk | that uses volume Y | 17:28 |
| garyk | and we write to Y | 17:28 |
| garyk | the detach | 17:28 |
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| garyk | and attach to instance Z tehn we can read what was written by X but not may be able to write again | 17:29 |
| garyk | sorry for the piece meal of comments - eb client is hard and my irc client is broken | 17:29 |
| danwent | well, the bug says that the actually re-attach fails | 17:29 |
| danwent | not that it succeeds, but the volume is read-only | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | in my book, that means we haven't really confirmed this bug. | 17:30 |
| garyk | hartsocks: subbu and kartik have confimed this and i have tested the patch | 17:30 |
| danwent | garyk: confirmed what behavior? what is written in the bug (second attach fails) or what you mentioned (second attach works, but read-only) | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | I have no doubt you've found *a* bug and fixed it. | 17:31 |
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| garyk | danwent: i think that they have confirmed what is written in the bug. i am not 100% sure, but I discussed this with them | 17:32 |
| danwent | ok… well, i guess one thing that is different in the bug from what I personally have tested is that I've never tried to immediately re-attach a volume to the same VM, we always booted another VM and attached the volume to that vms | 17:33 |
| garyk | danwent: my understaning, and i may be wrong, or confused, most likely the latter, is that the disk could become read only when we do something like a delete or a snapshot and it is owned by someone else | 17:33 |
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| garyk | danwent: that is the scenrio that i always tested | 17:34 |
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| danwent | ok, i don't totally follow on the read-only part, I'm just trying to understand how pervasive the bug is, as the write-up makes it sound like any volume that is detached is deleted and can never be attached to another VM, which means the whole point of volumes is in question. | 17:35 |
| danwent | but that seems to contract what we've tested. | 17:36 |
| danwent | contradict | 17:36 |
| garyk | danwent: i'll forllow up with subbu and kartik and get all of the details so that we can paint a better picture | 17:36 |
| danwent | ok, thanks, yeah, don't need to take up the whole meeting, but this does seem pretty important | 17:36 |
| garyk | hartsocks: you can action item that for me | 17:36 |
| danflorea | I agree. We need to know if we should say "don't snapshot when you have Cinder volumes attached" or "don't use our Cinder driver" | 17:36 |
| garyk | yeah i concur it is very importnat | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | #action garyk follow up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1241350 and narrow scope/descriptions | 17:37 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241350 in nova "VMware: Detaching a volume from an instance also deletes the volume's backing vmdk" [High,In progress] | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | Which brings me to... | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1243193 | 17:37 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1243193 in nova "VMware: snapshot backs up wrong disk when instance is attached to volume" [Undecided,New] | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | which seems related. | 17:38 |
| garyk | hartsocks: i am currently debugging this | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | (if only by subject matter) | 17:38 |
| garyk | this is related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1243222 | 17:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1243222 in nova "VMware: Detach after snapshot leaves volume in inconsistent state" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | yeah, glad you're on it. | 17:39 |
| garyk | i need a stiff drink | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | putting your name on the bug so I don't accidentally try to pick it up. | 17:39 |
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| hartsocks | Who's ever in HK should buy Gary a round. | 17:40 |
| tjones | garyk: at least its late enough for you to do just hat | 17:40 |
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| tjones | that | 17:40 |
| garyk | :) | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | a hat full of vodka. | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:40 |
| tjones | :-D | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | any other pressing things? | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | (on the topic of bugs that is) | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | anyone look at #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1240355 | 17:42 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1240355 in nova "Broken pipe error when copying image from glance to vSphere" [Undecided,New] | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | That seems like someone with a screwy setup more than anything. | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:43 |
| smurugesan | I think this is related to the bug Tracy is working on . let me pull it up | 17:43 |
| garyk | i have seen that on a number of occasions. have never been able to debug it | 17:43 |
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| hartsocks | hmm… so maybe not just a screwy set up (I've never seen this) | 17:44 |
| smurugesan | Could this be because the vmdk descriptor file exists but not the flat-file. | 17:44 |
| garyk | i actually think that it happens when the image is copied to the vc - i do not think that devtsack uses ssl between nova and glance | 17:44 |
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| garyk | i see it once every few days using a vanilla devstack installation with the debian instance | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | Really?!? | 17:45 |
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| tjones | odd i have never sen it | 17:46 |
| garyk | i am not sure if a packet is discarded or corrupted. but it is a tcp session so it should be retransmitted | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | That error looks to me like a transient networking failure. | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | Yes. TCP should cover retransmit of the occasional packet loss. | 17:46 |
| garyk | my thinking is that the current connection is terminated and a new session witht he vc is started. the file download is not restarted... but then again i have not been able to reproduce to be able to say for sure | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | Hmmm… | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | When we transfer to the datastores... | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | are we using the HTTP "rest" like interfaces? | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | I don't recall… I suppose we would have to. | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | I recall that there is a problem with session time-outs between the two forms of connections. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | The vanilla HTTP connection used for large file transfer... | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | and the SOAP connection have different sessions. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | One can time out and the other can still be active. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | This would tend to happen on long running large file transfers. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | Is that what you've seen Gary? | 17:50 |
| garyk | i have just seen the exception. have not delved any deeper than that | 17:50 |
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| garyk | i'll try and run tcp dump and see if it reprodues. this may crystalize your theory | 17:51 |
| danflorea | It would be good to know if this is isolated to one testbed or if we see it in multiple. If it's the latter, it's less likely that this is just a network/setup issue. | 17:51 |
| danflorea | PayPal in particular has big image files and is sensitive to failures like this so definitely worth investigating. | 17:52 |
| garyk | both ryand and i have seen this. only thing in common is that we use the same cloud | 17:52 |
| tjones | gark: you said it was with the debian image? | 17:52 |
| garyk | tjones: yes | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | Does the transfer ever take more than 30 minutes? | 17:53 |
| tjones | that's only 1G | 17:53 |
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| garyk | nope, it is usually a few seconds, maybe a minute at most | 17:54 |
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| hartsocks | Okay. That doesn't support my theory at all. | 17:54 |
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| hartsocks | Hmm… who should look at this? | 17:55 |
| garyk | i am bigged donw in the disk and datastores | 17:55 |
| tjones | If ryan can show me what he does i can take a look | 17:55 |
| tjones | yeah garyk has enough ;-) | 17:55 |
| garyk | bogged not bigged | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | totally. | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | why not both? | 17:56 |
| tjones | bugged | 17:56 |
| garyk | nah, not bugged. | 17:56 |
| tjones | at least i can put some debugging in there so we can catch it more easily if i cannot repo | 17:56 |
| hartsocks | okay. | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | #action tjones to follow up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1240355 | 17:57 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1240355 in nova "Broken pipe error when copying image from glance to vSphere" [Undecided,New] | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | We spent most of the meeting on bugs. | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | #topic open discussion | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:57 | |
| hartsocks | Anything else pressing we need to talk about? | 17:58 |
| danflorea | Just one request. Please review upstream Nova driver & Cinder driver docs :) | 17:58 |
| tjones | :-D | 17:58 |
| danflorea | Nova driver patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/51756/ | 17:58 |
| danflorea | Cinder driver doc is already merged. But send me comments if you have any and I can update that one too. | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | #action everyone give some review love to upstream nova driver and cinder docs! | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | So we're out of time. | 17:59 |
| tjones | adios | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | Thanks for the turn out today. | 17:59 |
| danflorea | bye | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | We're on #openstack-vmware just hangin' out if anyone needs to chat. | 18:00 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 23 18:00:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-10-23-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-10-23-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-10-23-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Hi Neutron folks | 18:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | FWaaS meeting to start | 18:00 |
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| garyk | hi | 18:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: hi | 18:01 |
| SridarK | Hi | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyk: hi | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: there? | 18:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets get started with whoever is around | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 23 18:02:36 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Welcome to the Firewall as a Service (FWaaS) meeting! | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | today's meeting is also in preparation for the Icehouse summit discussions/sessions | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-neutron-fwaas | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic tempest | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tempest (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:03 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | I have created a place holder blueprint | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/fwaas-api-tempest | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | I also had an action item last week to check with Salvatore, but I did not get a chance to catch him and he is on vacation this week | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | have pinged him though | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | if anyone has any input/thoughts on this, happy to spend a few minutes on this topic here | 18:04 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | seems like folks are still joining | 18:05 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | for folks just joining in, we are discussing tempest tests for FWaaS | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i have posted a placeholder blueprint | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the idea is to at least test the basic API for the fwaas resources | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | anyone has more thoughts/input on this? | 18:06 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | okay, so will try to prioritize this at least with the ideas we have | 18:07 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | moving to the next topic | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic zones | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "zones (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:07 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | everyone's favorite topic :-) | 18:07 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this was another action item for me | 18:08 |
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| garyduan | Right | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | I was supposed to send a email to the mailer with a proposal | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we had discussions with some team members on this, and based on that I sent out the proposal | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-zones-api | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | currently this is pretty simplistic, hoping to get some input | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | folks had a chance to think about this? | 18:08 |
| SridarK | I think this captures it at a high level | 18:09 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: okay | 18:09 |
| SridarK | we can work thru some of the specifics over next week | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | one thing we realized is that we cant use zones for all scenarios | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: right | 18:09 |
| SridarK | so we have something more tangible b4 summit | 18:09 |
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| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: we'd like to help or on other FW objects | 18:09 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | for instance, the zones don't work for bump in the wire scenarios | 18:09 |
| SridarK | yes true that was a good discussion | 18:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: sure, that is coming up in the agenda | 18:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: you mean pitch in for zones as well? | 18:10 |
| SridarK | i think if we cover some of the basic common cases and have it generic so works for all | 18:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: makes sense | 18:10 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | more thoughts on the definition of zones? | 18:11 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: We can share workload. | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: definitely, we can decide how to split up | 18:11 |
| SridarK | sounds good to me too | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets first firm up on the proposal | 18:11 |
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| SridarK | how abt we target that for the next IRC | 18:12 |
| SridarK | to have some more details added to the BP | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we will add source/destination arguments to the rule to be able to specify zones | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah we can do that | 18:12 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: lets also factor in the summit dynamics | 18:12 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: agreed | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay seems like everyone is happy with the current state of discussion on zones | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we will keep working on it | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | next topic | 18:13 |
| beyounn | wait | 18:13 |
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| beyounn | :-) | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: sure go ahead | 18:13 |
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| beyounn | the vlan support is still up in the air | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ah ok | 18:14 |
| beyounn | and there is another bp about this | 18:14 |
| beyounn | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WEGmMJ4Vn21trgwa2_mpQ7U_a1BV2rKxlRzHqc49-9Y/edit | 18:14 |
| SridarK | beyounn: i am also talking to Kyle today evening | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i was kind of thinking of that as implementation detail | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but good to point out | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks | 18:14 |
| beyounn | ok | 18:14 |
| beyounn | just want to put all the info together | 18:14 |
| beyounn | now, I'm done | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action SridarK and beyounn to continue following up on trunk port blueprint, and any additional blueprints that need to be created | 18:14 |
| SridarK | ok sounds good | 18:15 |
| beyounn | ok | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: do you want to discuss it here? | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | not sure if kyle is around | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: there? | 18:15 |
| beyounn | ok, let's do it offline then | 18:15 |
| SridarK | We are all in a mtg now | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets do it offline | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: got it | 18:15 |
| mestery | SumitNaiksatam: Barely. :) In a meeting | 18:16 |
| SridarK | so we can pick it up offline | 18:16 |
| beyounn | right | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: okay np, we discuss offline | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | next topic | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Address Objects | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Address Objects (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:16 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | we were earlier planning an IP Object resource to model static and dynamic IP objects | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the proposal is to evolve this to generic "address" objects | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-address-objects | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we will first target static IP objects | 18:17 |
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| Kaiwei | sorry, I just checked the blueprint for the zones and I'm not sure if using ports as zones actually capture the idea of "zones" | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: can you hold that thought, we just moved past that topic | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can circle back to zones | 18:17 |
| Kaiwei | sure | 18:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #action SumitNaiksatam to followup on Kaiwei regarding zones if we don't get it to it by the end of the meeting | 18:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | coming back to address objects | 18:18 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | everyone fine with IP address object being a subnet or list/range of ip addresses? | 18:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this is the "static" ip address object | 18:19 |
| beyounn | right | 18:19 |
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| Kaiwei | how about CIDR? | 18:19 |
| Kaiwei | oh, that's a subnet | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: okay, i was thinking CIDR when i meant subnet | 18:20 |
| Kaiwei | miss that part | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: yeah :-) | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: but that is a good point | 18:20 |
| Kaiwei | I guess that includes a list of subnets as well | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | when i was thinking subnets i was thinking neutron subnets | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | maybe there is a case for a super net or something like that | 18:21 |
| Kaiwei | so the subnet is actually a subnet UUID? | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: that was my initial thought | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it helps in validation | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | UUID or name | 18:22 |
| Kaiwei | I'm fine with that...but having CIDR is more flexible | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | also easier for the user to specify | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: i guess we can have both | 18:22 |
| Kaiwei | that will be great | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | either you can specify the actual CIDR, or the subnet UUID/name | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | perhaps more usable that way | 18:22 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | Agreed, both would be helpful. | 18:23 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Since CIDR can cover all cases - should we support both ? | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action SumitNaiksatam to update address object blueprint, add CIDR | 18:23 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: CIDR would cover | 18:23 |
| SridarK | just a thought to make it simpler | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but providing a reference to neutron resource (subnet) in this case makes a little easier for users | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: we can discuss as follow up | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | next topic | 18:24 |
| SridarK | ok sounds good - i agree | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: btw, anything more on address objects? | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | before i move on ;-) | 18:24 |
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| Kaiwei | nope, just want to make sure a list of subnets/CIDR is supported as well | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay great | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Counters | 18:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Counters (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:25 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | couple of blueprints have been proposed | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-counters-api | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/firewall-hitcounts | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the proposal is to pull the counters from the driver, FWaaS DB will not persist any of these | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this will be a separate API from the firewall_rules API (each rule will be identified based on rule_id and firewall_id) | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we still need to define what to report | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i guess the set of what IP tables reports is a must | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | accept, deny | 18:27 |
| Kaiwei | I think Salvatore mentioned in last week's meeting that pull the counters directly from driver every time a query is issued can put a lot stress on backend.... | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: I don't think that was what he was suggesting | 18:28 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i believe what he was suggesting is that we should not continuously update counters in the FWaaS DB | 18:29 |
| garyduan | Kaiwei: My understanding is updating database is too costy | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: right | 18:29 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: also, periodic update of counters will get give stale values, not of much use | 18:30 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | Perhaps this is too implementation specific, but what if there are multiple firewalls with the rule. Is the counter the sum of the counts on each firewall? | 18:30 |
| Kaiwei | ok, probably my misunderstanding | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | BrianTorres-Gil: we want to pull the counters based on rule_id and firewall_is | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | firewall_id | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i would prefer to leave the aggregation to another extension | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thoughts? | 18:32 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | ok, so counter is per rule and per firewall. | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | BrianTorres-Gil: that is the current proposal | 18:32 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | we would like to enable the "elemental" API | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | BrianTorres-Gil: perhaps we can make firewall_id optional | 18:33 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | so if firewall_id is not present, then its an aggregation | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | that said I am worried about supporting this aggregation in the reference implementation | 18:34 |
| SridarK | and this is completely driven by the vendor implementation | 18:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: that is true, but if we say firewall_id is optional, the reference implementation will have to support aggregation across firewalls | 18:34 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: supporting on the reference would be a stretch | 18:35 |
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| SridarK | we can keep it simple | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah, thats my concern :-) | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets think a little more how we can handle both scenarios (and not have to support in the reference impl) | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action BrianTorres-Gil SumitNaiksatam SridarK to sync up on aggregate counters | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | any other thoughts? | 18:36 |
| Kaiwei | one question | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: go ahead | 18:36 |
| SridarK | could whether it is optional or not be vendor specific ? | 18:36 |
| Kaiwei | will a rule be shared by multiple firewall policies in icehouse? | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: not in multiple policies | 18:37 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | but the policy can be shared in multiple firewalls | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: this is also a part of the commit operation discussion | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i have it on the agenda if we have time | 18:37 |
| Kaiwei | ok, so the aggregation is on one rule applied to multiple firewall? | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: yeah, that's what BrianTorres-Gil is referring to | 18:38 |
| Kaiwei | got it | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah, to your question, yeah lets think more on this | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | next topic | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Service Objects | 18:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Objects (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:39 | |
| SridarK | ok | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | proposal is to capture protocol, port, and timeout | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this can be used for source, and destination in a firewall_rule | 18:39 |
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| beyounn | the port can be a range | 18:39 |
| Kaiwei | what timeout is about? | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: ok | 18:40 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: over to you :-) | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei's question | 18:40 |
| beyounn | The service timeout is used to control a session the life time | 18:40 |
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| beyounn | you can define a service witha timeout and bind the service to a policy | 18:40 |
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| beyounn | when a session hits on the policy, session inherit the timeout value from service def | 18:41 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: so you mentioned you wanted to put a blueprint for this? | 18:42 |
| Kaiwei | got it,,,,just wondering how many venders have this kind of support.... | 18:42 |
| beyounn | Sure | 18:42 |
| beyounn | or, if you want to create it, I can filling detail later | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: it seems some vendors are supporting this | 18:42 |
| beyounn | Kaiwei: juniper and us | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: but we don't have to make this a required field | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it should be optional | 18:43 |
| Kaiwei | sure | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: agree? | 18:43 |
| beyounn | Iyes | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action beyounn to file service objects blueprint | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | BrianTorres-Gil: you have thoughts on this? | 18:44 |
| Kaiwei | Also, I think we should we have one service per rule, instead of two per rule | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: can you explain? | 18:44 |
| Kaiwei | you mentioned we need to have service objects for source and destination | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ah ok | 18:45 |
| Kaiwei | but the protocol/timeout...etc will be same, only port will be different | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: ok | 18:45 |
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| Kaiwei | so I think one service object which include src port and dst port should be sufficient | 18:45 |
| beyounn | yes | 18:45 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | In the service objects seems a strange place to put a timeout, I would connect a timeout more with a rule. But this is implemented differently in each vendor so hard to say what works best for everyone. | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: so you are saying rather than use source/destination for this, we have a new attribute for service | 18:46 |
| Kaiwei | yes | 18:46 |
| beyounn | let me give a short list | 18:46 |
| beyounn | in a service object, we can have: | 18:46 |
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| beyounn | name, proto, port (or port range), timeout | 18:47 |
| beyounn | the ports are source and dest | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | proto and port are mandatory? | 18:47 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i would assume they are | 18:47 |
| Kaiwei | I think proto/port are optional.... | 18:48 |
| beyounn | kaiwei:yes | 18:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: if they are optional, then the service object is meaningless | 18:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | you can just use the basic firewall rule attributes | 18:49 |
| Kaiwei | I mean, you can have a service object with only dst port, or service object with only protocol but no ports | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i would imagine that the service is characterized by the protocol and source/dest ports | 18:49 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: an empty service object means match all | 18:49 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: why would you need that | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: its match all anyway | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: i would still argue that at least source or dest port is required since that characterizes the service | 18:50 |
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| garyduan | Is current protocol in fw rule optional? | 18:50 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | It makes sense to me to have proto, srcport, dstport. And srcport is optional. | 18:50 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | Then one service object per rule. | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: protocol is optional in the API | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: the CLI requires you to use it | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | BrianTorres-Gil: agree | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay we are running short on time | 18:51 |
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| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: ok | 18:51 |
| beyounn | if you have protocol, then port has to be there | 18:51 |
| Kaiwei | SumitNaiksatam: Then how to createa rule says: allow all tcp traffic? | 18:51 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: that is already supported in the rules today | 18:51 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | okay let beyounn create the blueprint and we can pick this discussion up again next week | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic service_type framework and insertion | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "service_type framework and insertion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:52 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-service-types-integration | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | seems like gardyduan has already implemented something | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this part is more mechanical though | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic revisit firewall to firewall_policy association | 18:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "revisit firewall to firewall_policy association (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:53 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | i don't think we have enough time for this discussion | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | let's circle back on this next week but i want to bring this up to plant the seed | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Zones part deux | 18:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zones part deux (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:54 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: go ahead, trying to make sure we get back to your question | 18:54 |
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| Kaiwei | ok | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so you think group of neutron ports does not represent a zone? | 18:55 |
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| Kaiwei | if we use ports as zones, what if we have two ports connected to same network (or subnet), each is in different zones? | 18:55 |
| Kaiwei | it looks odd that two ports in same network (or subnet) are in different zones... | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: yes | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: however, i doubt it will be used that way | 18:56 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | I think it would be unusual to have two FW ports on same network/subnet unless you're doing link aggregation. | 18:56 |
| Kaiwei | some FW doesn't allow two interfaces on same subnet | 18:57 |
| Kaiwei | but I think most can have multiple interfaces on same networks but different subnets | 18:57 |
| Kaiwei | also, what if this is for two ports are for two different FWs? | 18:58 |
| Kaiwei | it it shouldn't be used this way, why not define zones as networks (or subnets)? | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: the problem is that we don't have an alternative to using neutron ports | 18:58 |
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| Kaiwei | if it shouldn't | 18:58 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | does subnet work for the other firewall vendors? | 18:59 |
| beyounn | no | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets continue this discussion over emails and in the next meeting | 18:59 |
| beyounn | it does not | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we have to yield to the next meeting | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thanks all | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 23 19:00:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-10-23-18.02.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-10-23-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-10-23-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | A zone can have multiple ports as members of the zone, correct? | 19:00 |
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| beyounn | yes | 19:00 |
| beyounn | later | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | BrianTorres-Gil: yes | 19:00 |
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| BrianTorres-Gil | thanks | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets continue over emails | 19:01 |
| BrianTorres-Gil | till next time | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bye | 19:01 |
| ivar-lazzaro | bye | 19:01 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 23 20:00:50 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
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| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
| jasond` | o/ | 20:01 |
| jpeeler | yo | 20:01 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| randallburt | hello all | 20:01 |
| tspatzier | hi | 20:01 |
| radix | hello | 20:01 |
| kanabuchi | hello | 20:01 |
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| asalkeld | o/ | 20:01 |
| zaneb | hello folks | 20:01 |
| bgorski | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | I've just updated https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda | 20:02 |
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| stevebaker | not long till summit! | 20:02 |
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| stevebaker | #topic review last week's actions | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
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| stevebaker | shardy to sync Havana release notes etherpad with wiki | 20:03 |
| shardy | That's done | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | sweet | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | stevebaker to review all summit proposals and reduce to 9 sessions | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | done | 20:03 |
| shardy | I also added a note about HOT being under heavy development, hence possibly being subject to change | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | good | 20:03 |
| shardy | after some IRC discussions re the evolving HOT spec | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | #topic Summit session proposals | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit session proposals (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/ | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | We were oversubscribed by 2x, so I had to be brutal | 20:05 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: is there a way for us plebs to see the _schedule_ (as opposed to the session list)? | 20:06 |
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| shardy | which didn't make the cut? | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | so I suggest we just go through each of the 9 sessions quickly now, and feedback would be welcome if any topics are over or under represented. | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | shardy: sort by topic and scroll down to heat | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | even better, sort by status first, then by topic | 20:07 |
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| stevebaker | I've also come up with a draft schedule, but I don't yet have visibility on other design summit schedules for clashes so that may change | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | let me paste the provisional schedule | 20:07 |
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| stevebaker | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/49281/ | 20:08 |
| stevebaker | Thursday is a big day | 20:08 |
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| stevebaker | I put the topics that seem to need the most discussion first | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | Heat Software Orchestration | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | Heat workflow: consider taskflow, Mistral or other | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | then the afternoon sessions are fairly feature based, but ordered arbitrarily | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | looks good steve | 20:10 |
| therve | stevebaker, It's missing the autoscaling one | 20:10 |
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| therve | Err | 20:10 |
| therve | stevebaker, sorry misreading :/ | 20:10 |
| shardy | stevebaker: lgtm | 20:10 |
| radix | hehe | 20:10 |
| therve | I counted 8 for some reasons | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | The 2 friday morning sessions are a bit different to all the others (one is about technical debt, the other is about usability features) | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | so the controversial sessions are first, so we can all be hating on each other for the rest of the day ;) | 20:11 |
| therve | Heh | 20:11 |
| lrengan_ | :-) | 20:11 |
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| stevebaker | so one scheduling problem I see so far is 5:20 Thursday clashes with http://openstacksummitnovember2013.sched.org/event/d021c726f6fbe4d1fc7ade0a72a6ae2a | 20:12 |
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| tspatzier | oh, that's mine | 20:12 |
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| stevebaker | it would be good to go to that, even if we have to jog to all get there | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | that's late in the day | 20:13 |
| bgorski | How it works? The person who proposed the session in responsible for preparing it? | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | bgorski, not much prep | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | so I'll ask if we can swap our 5:20 with another project, we're allowed to horse-trade slots | 20:13 |
| therve | I was about to suggest that | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | it's a discussion | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | bgorski: it depends on the session, generally it will be less structured than that | 20:14 |
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| zaneb | I don't know about this jogging business, but count me in for horse-trading | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | so lets go through each session | 20:14 |
| randallburt | can we leverage the horses? | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | in time order | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/82 | 20:14 |
| bgorski | asalkeld, yea I know its are design sessions but some 5 or 10 min introduction would be nice | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | Heat Software Orchestration | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | bgorski, yeah that's about right | 20:15 |
| * SpamapS imagines randallburt with a very large see-saw being accosted by some angry horse farmers.. | 20:15 | |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, maybe we can have people with different solutions for that? | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | this will be a bit of a free-for-all, but hopefully it can be kept on track with a concrete proposal | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | quick 5 min | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | I am trying to make a PoC now | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | bgorski: Right, typically the "leaders" of a session will set the table. What you _don't_ want is a lot of slides and "here is how we're doing it".. even if you want that to happen.. as it hat squelches the discussion. You | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | using marconi | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: yep | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | SpamapS, +1 | 20:16 |
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| SpamapS | lovely typing there.. thank you latency | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | want some possible solutions, and discuss | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/121 | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | Heat workflow: consider taskflow, Mistral or other | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: I wonder if you and harlowja could come up with a plan for running this session? | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, so that is for the engine to use | 20:17 |
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| asalkeld | (not to do with the software config) | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | I would like to recommend that the task flow people and mistral people try to have a breakout session some time before this session to allow interested parties to get an idea where the projects are now. | 20:18 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: +1 | 20:18 |
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| zaneb | sure, I can help out but I imagine harlowja knows basically what he wants to discuss | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | And/or direct us to where we can ascertain that offline before summit. | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, you know what we need tho' | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | yes, this is to consider transforming our declarative orchestration to workflow for execution | 20:19 |
| zaneb | btw, I don't know where the idea of us using Mistral came from | 20:19 |
| zaneb | but... no. | 20:19 |
| randallburt | lol | 20:19 |
| bgorski | SpamapS, I was not planning to give you presentation about our multi region vision with a lot of slides so do not worry :) | 20:19 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: distributed workflow would mean no need for a single-engine stack lock. | 20:19 |
| randallburt | weeeeeeel maybe not. | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: you've got the best knowledge of heat scheduling currently, so you can best represent heat's concerns | 20:20 |
| zaneb | I mean, I think we should *probably* use taskflow. But not Mistral. | 20:20 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: but if Mistral isn't quite aimed at distributed celery-like workflow then the point is moot. :) | 20:20 |
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| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/79 | 20:21 |
| zaneb | we discussed Convection already at the last summit and decided that we would share a library not consume an API | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | Autoscaling Design | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:21 |
| radix | we have a couple of issues to figure out there | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | A nice easy topic for straight after lunch ;) | 20:22 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: getting the easy ones out of the way first? ;) | 20:22 |
| radix | heh heh | 20:22 |
| radix | I have been working on a proposed API spec | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | bring your coffee | 20:22 |
| radix | stevebaker and I talked about splitting up the discussion into API first and resources second | 20:22 |
| radix | I think the load balancer thing is probably the most interesting point to figure out during the discussion | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | I'd suggest people write up as much as possible in advance | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | so we have the maximum context | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | It seems like this will be a session which is more about presenting a solution, with discussion just about details and problems? | 20:23 |
| * SpamapS wonders if we can get some of that extra-strength Thai red bull... :) | 20:23 | |
| radix | stevebaker: I think a lot of us have come to a baseline agreement about the basic solution, but there's some gnarly things to figure out | 20:23 |
| radix | the wiki page mentions all the problems we have to solve afaik | 20:24 |
| radix | oh, wait, there was another one therve thought of this morning, we should add that | 20:24 |
| sdake | monster xtreme ftw | 20:24 |
| zaneb | load balancing is definitely a tricky one | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | and I suggested the first half be only about the API, and the second half be about the resources. Our autoscaling talks tend to descend into a gordian knot of api<>resources arguments ;) | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | brb in 5min | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | btw, all 9 slots are full, if we can free up one slot that leaves us a spare for the most important topic that arises while we're there | 20:25 |
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| radix | the main issue about LB is that I'd like to avoid knowledge of it in the autoscale API/service, and instead make it flexible enough to support the general class of relationships like LB | 20:26 |
| radix | however that's done, I don't care :) | 20:26 |
| zaneb | IMO we should talk about the API as if there were no resources | 20:26 |
| zaneb | then we can add the resources after, like we do for every other OpenStack service | 20:26 |
| therve | stevebaker, retry/convergence and healing could be covered in the same slot, IMHO | 20:27 |
| radix | agreed | 20:27 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: +1 ... make a good micro service, then make resources to support it. | 20:27 |
| shardy | zaneb: agree, I thought the point of the AS API is that folks didn't want to consume AS via heat resources | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | therve: I don't see how they are related, and I think there is enough in healing to discuss on its own | 20:27 |
| SpamapS | Right, so agree on what a good AS micro service will (and will not) expose in an API, and then we can look at what resources are needed to support that. | 20:28 |
| zaneb | yeah, it's talking about both at the same time that causes the Gordian knot, with API parts that rely on the resources, which is backwards | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/205 | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | Support API retry function with Idempotency | 20:28 |
| radix | the resources should be a pretty obvious mapping to the API anyway | 20:28 |
| radix | ok, /me shuts up :) | 20:28 |
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| kanabuchi | I noted down details here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kgpc00uuQr | 20:29 |
| SpamapS | the retry stuff is pretty important, and there seem to be differing approaches suggested, so an entire session may be needed just to articulate the approaches and choose one. | 20:29 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: that session could actually be combined with the taskflow one IMO | 20:29 |
| zaneb | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/205 that is | 20:29 |
| shardy | IMHO we just don't want retry loops in heat | 20:29 |
| radix | and make sure everyone knows that this _isn't_ the same as healing :) | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | so this might not deserve a full session, but there could be some worthy discussion on how the retry policy is specified, and a guide on implementation if it is a non-heat-core dev doing it | 20:29 |
| shardy | If they should exist, they should be in the *clients | 20:29 |
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| stevebaker | radix: exactly | 20:29 |
| therve | stevebaker, It seems to be that retry is a poor-man convergence | 20:30 |
| shardy | therve: they aren't the same thing at all IMO | 20:30 |
| shardy | one is about aligning the template with the real state of resources | 20:30 |
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| SpamapS | details of how exactly it will work are not always a good summit session goal. Details of _what_ to do are paramount. | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | therve: no, retry happens within create or update on a single resource, convergence is a new action which compares desired state with actual state | 20:30 |
| shardy | the other is about retrying due to service flakiness | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | As in, we don't want to quibble over syntax, there, but we do wnat to make sure the end goal is agreed upon. | 20:31 |
| therve | stevebaker, Hum, okay. The retry thing sounded like a new action. | 20:31 |
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| shardy | Is the intention for all openstack services to retry everything? | 20:32 |
| SpamapS | shardy: retry loops in Heat is, indeed, a workaround for bugs in the clients. We're more talking about "what to do when Heat is stuck" | 20:32 |
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| shardy | I don't see why Heat should be special and retry all the things | 20:32 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: the more I look at it the more I think this doesn't deserve a session. It hasn't been discussed on the mailing list even | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | but maybe the topic is small enough to share with another session, maybe http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/121 (workflow) or http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/95 (convergence) | 20:32 |
| radix | shardy: special.... man, every openstack user has to retry stuff all the time in practice </rant> | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | or we just drop it | 20:32 |
| radix | but yeah, that's because there are bugs everywhere | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | Like if you were just plain out of quota space when you did an update that added a resource.. novaclient isn't going to retry that forever... we need a "try again" driven by the user. | 20:33 |
| shardy | radix: hence my suggestion that it should be abstracted into the clients.. | 20:33 |
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| asalkeld | aren't we getting reservations? | 20:33 |
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| zaneb | session time should be reserved for proposals that have be discussed and need face-to-face interaction to resolve | 20:33 |
| radix | shardy: yeah, I'm not disagreeing | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | shouldn't that solve these issuess | 20:33 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: agreed, I think its simply allowing some of our actions to be re-entrant without re-creating things that already worked. | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: this topic has been floating around for the last cycle | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | randallburt: well said. | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | If we can't spare the session time, I'm happy to block out time to do a breakout outside our normal session time, but I definitely want to get some consensus on this and do some of the actual work. | 20:34 |
| shardy | randallburt: that's not how the session proposal is worded tho | 20:35 |
| shardy | +1 on allowing users to manually retry things, huge -1 on automagiacally while(1)ing stuff in heat code | 20:35 |
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| radix | I think if it's a user action, it's more in line with the discussion about convergence | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | shardy: agreed, perhaps we can combine this with convergence. | 20:35 |
| randallburt | shardy: undertood on the 1st and totally agree on the second | 20:35 |
| shardy | SpamapS: +1 | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | Ok so lets combine them. | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | ok, lets tack it onto the convergence session, maybe the last 1/3rd | 20:36 |
| randallburt | +1 on combining them | 20:36 |
| shardy | Huh, I think therve just said that didn't he ;) | 20:36 |
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| randallburt | indeed | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/95 | 20:36 |
| therve | my evil plan succeeded | 20:36 |
| radix | :) | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | Healing and convergence | 20:37 |
| shardy | therve: my point was that what is being proposed is not the same, but I accept that convergence may solve both use-cases | 20:37 |
| randallburt | and retrying | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | can we call this healing? convergence is a mouthful. the action is a 4 letter verb! | 20:37 |
| therve | shardy, Agreed | 20:37 |
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| SpamapS | or, convergence may make use of the same mechanism that a user-driven retry mechanism uses. | 20:37 |
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| radix | I see two interesting things in this session, 1) discussion of an explicit "retry" / "converge" operation from the user, and 2) automatically watching for divergence and trying to convergence | 20:38 |
| radix | er, trying to converge* | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | radix: heal! | 20:38 |
| radix | ok ok | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | radix: if only you could explain these things to us in person... | 20:38 |
| radix | but it's not like converge is unusual in this space, puppet and chef use that phrase too :P | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | radix: you know, the timezones would allow you to attend both events using a telepresence bot at one of them.. | 20:38 |
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| radix | SpamapS: sorry =( well, honestly I basically just explained everything I have thought on the subject, hehe | 20:38 |
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| radix | actually, I was wondering if there would be any facility for remote involvement | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | radix: I've heard maybe not | 20:39 |
| radix | I wonder if a G+ hangout would work. but I may be sleeping :) | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | depends on the network | 20:39 |
| shardy | basically we need two things: (1) allow retry from failed states, and (2) allow retry from wedged in-progress states without making a huge mess and breaking everything | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | not always the best | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | hangouts have been used, but in the past the summit network is , while good, not that good. | 20:39 |
| radix | ok | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/58 | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | Heat support for multi-region and multi-cloud | 20:40 |
| bgorski | So I think we should talk who heat will orchestrate stack with resources in different region | 20:41 |
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| stevebaker | the big thinks I want answered in this session is how to represent the credentials for different clouds, and how we represent what resource goes on what cloud/region | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | big thin*g*s | 20:42 |
| therve | Also, how auth will work at all | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | and az's/regions/flavors | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | (validating them) | 20:43 |
| shardy | A topic we were discussing is how deferred auth and signals can work for multi-cloud | 20:43 |
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| bgorski | stevebaker, I really like your context concept to express what resource goes to which cloud/region | 20:43 |
| SpamapS | My position: figure out just the next step, and do that. This is pretty big, and each step is really tricky... I don't think one cycle will get us to multi-region even.. and multi-cloud is a whole other ball of wax. | 20:43 |
| shardy | ie if you can't use trusts, and you don't have admin on all-the-clouds to create stack users | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | bgorski: yep, whether we can apply that context to a single resource, or only to an entire nested stack is a good question | 20:44 |
| shardy | SpamapS: +1 | 20:44 |
| SpamapS | (and I don't consider multi-region done until it is HA so that one region failing != your whole stack being unmanagable) | 20:44 |
| shardy | personally I think just getting multi region working is a huge undertaking | 20:44 |
| radix | SpamapS: you mean like making heat an actual distributed system? | 20:44 |
| bgorski | I checked the heat code base and right now each nested stack has his own set of clients | 20:44 |
| SpamapS | radix: aye | 20:44 |
| bgorski | so right now it is really easy to do that for nested stack | 20:45 |
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| SpamapS | right so this sounds like it should be a good healthy session to make sure we understand that next step and the long term vision too | 20:45 |
| bgorski | but specifying context for each resource will be much harder | 20:45 |
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| asalkeld | we could put contexts in the environment | 20:45 |
| asalkeld | and associate them to resources there | 20:46 |
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| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/200 | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | then the resource ask the env for it's context | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | Stack abandon and adopt | 20:46 |
| zaneb | bgorski: excellent point, and IMO we should implement multi-region only for Stack resources | 20:46 |
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| stevebaker | apparently multiple sessions can be scheduled into each slot, so I might resurrect http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/98 and add it to this slot | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | this is scary stuff | 20:47 |
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| bgorski | zaneb: I think so too | 20:47 |
| shardy | Yeah, this loooks like it could get pretty hairy.. | 20:47 |
| SpamapS | That would be an interesting mechanism to make use of for HA multi-region. | 20:47 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: I think that one would be covered by adopt/abandon | 20:48 |
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| SpamapS | region-master goes down, region-slave promotes itself and reads in a static map of what resources it can own and adopts them. | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: it would, that is why I refused it | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | SpamapS, needs to be heat version independent too | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | I don't think this would be super hairy either btw. I love the concept. | 20:49 |
| randallburt | asalkeld: I think that's a pretty tall order. | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | SpamapS, if you can guarantee the heat create the resources | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | For instance, I could see using it to prepare stem-cell type servers to then be mo[4~ved into stacks as needed. | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | the hairiest bit is how to handle endpoints changing on running servers, but there are many use cases which wouldn't be too hard to achieve | 20:50 |
| radix | Is the idea to have a new API? like "here's the resource properties and resource_id and any resource_data associated with it, go"? | 20:50 |
| radix | or maybe extra parameters with create-stack | 20:50 |
| randallburt | I still think you can do this in the user/base case with environments | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | radix, some kind of state file | 20:50 |
| randallburt | add the ability to specify a physical resource id for a resource | 20:50 |
| therve | The interesting part would be to do it without specific resource support | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | radix: I was thinking new actions, abandon and adopt. adopt is like create, but with some extra state information\ | 20:50 |
| SpamapS | randallburt: an interesting approach to bring up before the summit. Can you write that up and comment on the proposal or maybe send to the ML? | 20:50 |
| randallburt | SpamapS: sure | 20:51 |
| bgorski | I think adopt and abandon functionality will be great if created stack will be able to generate template which describes it resources and dependencies between them | 20:51 |
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| radix | therve: I guess that shouldn't be too hard, since resources only have two well-defined ways to store data | 20:51 |
| radix | in resource_id, and in resource_data | 20:51 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: OS::Nova::Server already has a name property | 20:51 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: as do many other native resource types | 20:51 |
| SpamapS | this _might_ be combinable into convergence as well | 20:51 |
| bgorski | because we can use gui as a editor and template debugger but I know it is a long term vision and dream :) | 20:51 |
| therve | bgorski, Hum, what would you pass to Heat? The tenant? | 20:51 |
| therve | radix, That's still 2 too many :) | 20:52 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: I mean specify a resources native ID in the environment so heat won't create a new one | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | bgorski: resource relationships is already exposed in the API | 20:52 |
| SpamapS | lets not get into HOW... if we want to discuss it, lets move on and keep it scheduled. | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | Friday! | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/229 | 20:53 |
| shardy | One issue with this (the adopt) is it's essential that we have 100% parity between the resource properties and the underlying API/physical-resource | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | Heat exorcism | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | hangover session | 20:53 |
| zaneb | bgorski: so, I don't believe it's possible in general to infer the relationship between resources | 20:53 |
| shardy | so it can never be compatible with multiple versions of things | 20:53 |
| SpamapS | Do we need a session on a list of bugs? | 20:54 |
| SpamapS | These all look like "yes fix that please" | 20:54 |
| shardy | Or rather we have to have parity with every project at release time | 20:54 |
| shardy | anyway.. | 20:54 |
| stevebaker | zaneb has a bunch of technical debt issues to discuss, the fixes for some might be disruptive so discussion may be worthy | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | SpamapS, maybe a user session? | 20:55 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: I guess I proposed it because there are a couple of major changes we need to consider | 20:55 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: right I see that we do need a "native heat resource access method" | 20:55 |
| shardy | SpamapS: I don't think so, we can prioritize bugs in LP and the weekly meetings | 20:55 |
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| zaneb | e.g. do we base resources directly on APIs, even when they're broken like Neutron :( | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | and it is a good chance to lay down some "don't to this, and this is why" guidelines | 20:55 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: ++ | 20:55 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: heh, maybe we should schedule this before the autoscaling session ;) | 20:56 |
| * zaneb ducks | 20:56 | |
| radix | a lot of those autoscaling-related ones should go away with the new proposed stuff | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | so if anyone has other implementation cleanup things, let me know and I'll add it to the session | 20:56 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: IMO resources shoudl be tied to the logical problem they solve, not just the API. API adherence is just nice for closing the understanding loop. | 20:57 |
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| tspatzier | SpamapS, +1 | 20:57 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: +2 | 20:57 |
| SpamapS | But yeah perhaps we do need to discuss those two things. | 20:57 |
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| asalkeld | do we need a user session? | 20:58 |
| stevebaker | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/83 | 20:58 |
| stevebaker | Stack troubleshooting support | 20:58 |
| radix | +1 SpamapS as well :) | 20:58 |
| asalkeld | where our users can talk about things that are bugging them? | 20:58 |
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| therve | SpamapS, This hasn't been what we've done up to now, at least | 20:59 |
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| stevebaker | this session is proposing a template debugger (some kind of breakpoint mechanism) and other tools to diagnose why a stack has broken | 20:59 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, I'll link the user-logging bp too | 21:00 |
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| asalkeld | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/user-visible-logs | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier: I'm a little concerned that this is a wishlist, rather than something that has developers ready to work on | 21:00 |
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| SpamapS | therve: well sometimes we accidentally did it, when the API matched the problem space well ;) | 21:00 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker, partly agree, but we have a team internally how think about implementation. | 21:00 |
| shardy | stevebaker: +1, it doesn't look all that achieveable in the near-term to me | 21:00 |
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| stevebaker | its totally achievable, but it just needs bodies to do it | 21:01 |
| SpamapS | a line based live debugger wouldn't actually be that hard. | 21:01 |
| tspatzier | I asked them to prepare some more details. A session could help them to get the right direction to get this started. | 21:01 |
| shardy | SpamapS: It's the in-instance debugging I think will be ahrd | 21:01 |
| shardy | hard even | 21:01 |
| bgorski | aren't we out of time? | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier: as long as they intend to implement something as well - a design wouldn't be that useful | 21:02 |
| asalkeld | yip we are | 21:02 |
| eglynn | ladies & gents ... cough ... have ye any homes to go to? | 21:02 |
| tspatzier | in-instance debugging will become a more important issue with the software orchestration thing | 21:02 |
| eglynn | (as Irish barmen shout out at pub closing time ...;) | 21:02 |
| zaneb | wow, some really good session proposals didn't make the cut :( tough schedule. | 21:02 |
| radix | whoah, that went long :) sorry | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | eglynn: keep your hair on :) | 21:02 |
| SpamapS | shardy: we implemented that in Juju by ssh'ing in from the client into a screen started specifically to run the hooks (in this case, we'd start screen in the cloud-init) | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 23 21:02:35 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-10-23-20.00.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-10-23-20.00.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-10-23-20.00.log.html | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | lets continue in #heat | 21:02 |
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| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 21:02 | |
| * SpamapS bows in apology | 21:02 | |
| eglynn | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 23 21:02:56 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| thomasem | That's a sad time. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:03 |
| eglynn | jd__ is on vacation so I'll fight with the ircbot this week ... | 21:03 |
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| eglynn | (here's hoping no-one calls for a vote on anything ... ;)) | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:03 |
| terriyu | o/ | 21:03 |
| lsmola | hello | 21:03 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:03 |
| nealph | o/ | 21:03 |
| thomasem | You will win where we previously failed. | 21:03 |
| thomasem | o/ | 21:03 |
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| gordc | o/ | 21:03 |
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| eglynn | any more hands to go up? | 21:03 |
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| eglynn | right-o, let's dig into the agenda items ... | 21:04 |
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| eglynn | #topic Ceilometer errors in tempest runs | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer errors in tempest runs (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:04 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 21:04 |
| eglynn | or "when can we stop using sqlalchemy as the default backend in devstack" ;) | 21:04 |
| eglynn | dhellmann the floor is your's ... | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | I thought sileht worked out what to do about that already | 21:04 |
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| eglynn | yeah we discussed this a while back on IRC with sileht & jd__ IIRC | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:05 |
| nealph | can you summarize? | 21:05 |
| eglynn | we should be able to switch back to mongodb as the default in devstack | 21:05 |
| eglynn | (as mongodb-server 2.4.x has hit the ubuntu cloud archive) | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | ftr, it looks like what we need to do is increase some of the defaults for pool sizes | 21:05 |
| * eglynn digs for the log ... | 21:05 | |
| * dhellmann looks for the review link | 21:05 | |
| eglynn | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-metering/%23openstack-metering.2013-10-02.log | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53396/ | 21:05 |
| gordc | dhellmann: should we be increasing them in ceilometer code? | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | gordc: we want ceilometer's defaults to be useful out of the box | 21:06 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: well that may solve one issue with using sqlalchemy, but there are others | 21:06 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: for example the lack of support for metaquery | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: ok, this was the one I knew about :-) | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | that should just result in skipped tests, right? | 21:06 |
| eglynn | (needed by horizon and ceilo alarming, possibly other too ...) | 21:06 |
| gordc | i'm kind of torn on that personally... because the defaults we set may or maynot work based on how many meters the environment is capturing. | 21:06 |
| eglynn | well /me thinks we should be defaulting to our most feature complete storage backend | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | gordc: sure. but the tempest environment is very very small, so our standard defaults are clearly not enough | 21:07 |
| eglynn | and the one that distros are likely to recommend for production | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: sure. we need to figure out how to get the right version of mongodb into devstack then | 21:07 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep, exactly | 21:07 |
| gordc | dhellmann: i guess... what's setting the defaults currently? the sqlalchemy code from oslo? | 21:08 |
| thomasem | Wouldn't that be mongodb-10gen? I'm not sure how ubiquitous that is. | 21:08 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: so according to sileht, mongodb-server 2.4.0 is now in the ubuntu cloud archive | 21:08 |
| eglynn | (as per IRC link above) | 21:08 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: ok, does that mean the devstack gates will install it? | 21:08 |
| eglynn | previously IIRC the prob was that it was only availble for precise from the 10-gen repo | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | gordc: yes | 21:08 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep, it did up to now | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yes, that's right | 21:08 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: sorry, up to being disabled as the default | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | ok, well, I think we should go for both then | 21:09 |
| thomasem | Oh, I see. Yeah, like I run on Debian and the .deb for mongodb on Squeeze was <2.2. | 21:09 |
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| thomasem | So, I have to use mongodb-10gen when I swap to that backend. | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | right, developer environments are OK because we can write instructions for upgrading | 21:09 |
| thomasem | yep | 21:09 |
| eglynn | yep, so I'll follow up with sileht on that again tmrw on how to enable grabbing from the cloud archive | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | but the automated environment has different rules, so we need to make sure we're allowed to require the package | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: sounds good | 21:10 |
| eglynn | the infra folks didn't want us to require a package from the 10-gen repo IIRC | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | do we also want to accept a patch to raise the defaults? | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yes, that's right | 21:10 |
| eglynn | but now we should be to switch back | 21:10 |
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| dhellmann | cloud archive may be ok | 21:10 |
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| eglynn | be ok to switch back, yep exactly | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: we should probably do some work to figure out how out of sync the drivers are w.r.t. features | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | because I think the mongo driver does not deal with events, right? | 21:11 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep agreed | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | maybe I missed that being added, though | 21:11 |
| thomasem | dhellmann, there are reviews up for it | 21:11 |
| gordc | dhellmann: i'm ok with raising defaults.... only thing is the tests i ran, we can/have way more than 10 sessions running at any given time. | 21:11 |
| thomasem | let me snag them | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | would be good to go through before the summit | 21:11 |
| eglynn | there's a patch in the review queue also to add metaquery to sqlalchemy | 21:11 |
| thomasem | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49548/ | 21:12 |
| thomasem | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49456/ | 21:12 |
| eglynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49456/ | 21:12 |
| eglynn | snap! :) | 21:12 |
| thomasem | ;) | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | gordc: we can work out the actual values through gerrit discussion; I don't know the right answer there | 21:12 |
| gordc | dhellmann: cool cool. | 21:12 |
| eglynn | so this will bite us again I think unless we become firmer re. feature parity between the drivers | 21:13 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: yeah, I think that should be a goal for icehouse | 21:13 |
| thomasem | eglynn, +1 | 21:13 |
| eglynn | and where we don't have parity, we need a very clear statement of that | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | we should do something to specify which parts of the driver API are related, maybe with separate base classes or something to hold the interfaces? | 21:14 |
| eglynn | i.e. the implications of chosing a storage backend in terms of what stops working | 21:14 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep, that would make sense | 21:14 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: we could also look at some of the interface description libraries other than abc | 21:14 |
| thomasem | Yeah. The tests can be a good source for that. If your driver can't pass this series of tests, it's out of compliance. Sort of like that timestamp ordering one. | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | but I feel like we have a lot of "this method is implemented, but not all aspects of it work" kinds of differences | 21:15 |
| thomasem | for resources | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | especially with variations on queries | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | so we might want to think about whether it makes sense to split those out into separate methods, for clarity | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | I hate even suggesting that, though :-/ | 21:16 |
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| thomasem | dhellmann, I'm not sure I follow. | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | nova has separate methods like "find resource by id" and "find resource by name" | 21:17 |
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| eglynn | yeah, its a non-trivial question, how best to capture the functional requirements imposed on the storage driver by various features | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | we have "find resource" with optional parameters | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | and then in some drivers one of the parameters doesn't work, so we raise NotImplemented | 21:17 |
| eglynn | yep, suddenly pagination or metaquery blows up when you switch drivers | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | that's a simplistic example, the real example is more like we don't support a particular way of querying against the metadata associated with an event in some cases but not in others | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | right | 21:18 |
| thomasem | I see. Yeah, that's difficult to say which would be deserving of that or not. Some are just simply filters, others may have completely different query structures. | 21:18 |
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| dhellmann | we don't want to say we can't add features until all the drivers work, but we should probably say that at least one driver must always have all of the features | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | and pick a single driver to be the main or default or whatever | 21:18 |
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| thomasem | In any case, you could get a bit clever with your tests and see that the method behaves the same across drivers. | 21:18 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: +1 | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | that used to be mongo, until we had a bunch of people not wanting to use it add features :-) | 21:19 |
| * dhellmann looks at sandywalsh | 21:19 | |
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| thomasem | Lol, he's on a plane right now, I'd imagine. | 21:19 |
| eglynn | +1 for maintaining mongo as the canonical driver | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | thomasem: we do, in fact, run the same test code against all of the drivers | 21:19 |
| thomasem | dhellmann, I know. What I meant was flesh out in the tests what a compliant driver looks like. | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | I would go along with that, or even with sqlalchemy, but either way we should pick one | 21:19 |
| thomasem | with what* | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | thomasem: ok, I'm not clear on what you're suggesting we would do different | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | drivers are allowed to raise NotImplementedError for missing features, and the tests just skip | 21:20 |
| thomasem | dhellmann, Not different, just ore of. :) | 21:20 |
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| dhellmann | ah, ok, yes to more testing :-) | 21:20 |
| thomasem | dhellmann, Take that timestamp ordering test for example. | 21:20 |
| eglynn | how about we try to grab an unconference slot for this discussion at summit? | 21:21 |
| nealph | that would provide a reference point...but would we then require those adding new drivers to update mongo with any missing functionality? | 21:21 |
| eglynn | (to involve the RAX folks with skin in the game re. events) | 21:21 |
| nealph | +1 on the session | 21:21 |
| * eglynn is assuming events is the main incomplete aspect of mongo currently | 21:21 | |
| dhellmann | eglynn: not a proper conference session in the ceilometer room? are we out of slots? | 21:21 |
| gordc | eglynn: did we figure out how many slots we have at summit? | 21:21 |
| eglynn | gordc: 11 last I heard | 21:22 |
| * thomasem is becoming sadder by the second that he can't join y'all. | 21:22 | |
| dhellmann | nealph: yes, the idea would be all new features have to land in mongo if they are added to another storage driver | 21:22 |
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| dhellmann | or, if not mongo, the driver we do agree on | 21:22 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: +1 | 21:22 |
| dragondm | dhellmann: me& sandywalsh will be there @ hk. I'm up for an unconf session. | 21:22 |
| eglynn | dragondm: cool | 21:22 |
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| eglynn | should we move on? | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: why an unconference session, instead of a regular session? | 21:23 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: I'd be up for either | 21:23 |
| nealph | 15 proposals so far....some trimming already needed. | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | I'll propose one on this | 21:23 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: | 21:23 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: cool! | 21:23 |
| eglynn | #topic summit update | 21:23 |
| gordc | nealph: there's a few regarding api so i would think they could be merged. | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit update (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:24 | |
| dragondm | eglynn: dhellmann:, I'd be up for either. I'm sure sandy would as well. | 21:24 |
| eglynn | on the subject of HK, the ceilo track for the design sessions will be finalized shortly by jd__ | 21:24 |
| nealph | too late to propose another? | 21:24 |
| eglynn | we're over-subscribed, so I suspect there will be some merged sessions | 21:24 |
| eglynn | (some obvious candidates for merging among the proposals) | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/355 | 21:25 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: thanks! | 21:25 |
| eglynn | so jd__ will be finalizing the approved sessions and pushing the schedule to sched.org shortly | 21:25 |
| eglynn | (this time round, IIUC the design summit and conference will have completely separate schedules) | 21:26 |
| eglynn | and apparently run in different buildings too ... | 21:26 |
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| dhellmann | I think it's separate floors of the same building, but a very very large building | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | there is quite a distance between the two spaces, I think | 21:26 |
| eglynn | a-ha, ok | 21:26 |
| eglynn | (apparently some of the other projects had problems before with randomers showing up at design sessions) | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | that wasn't entirely clear from ttx yesterday, though, so I could have that wrong | 21:27 |
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| * eglynn doesn't remember it being an issue with ceilo though | 21:27 | |
| nealph | that should be interesting...I've seen only a couple of cm-specific conference talks though. | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | yeah, the nova room in particular was packed | 21:27 |
| gordc | what constitutes a 'randomer'? non-contributer? | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | it's a shame I'm going to have to miss so many of the ceilometer sessions to be in the oslo room | 21:27 |
| dragondm | makes me wonder if the design summit & conference shouldn't be 2 separate events altogether... | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | gordc: yeah, we had non-atc folks clogging up the doorways | 21:28 |
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| eglynn | gordc: good question, maybe a business-y type in a suit? ... I dunno | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | dragondm: "bringing developers and users together"... | 21:28 |
| gordc | dhellmann: gotcha. | 21:28 |
| dragondm | heh, ok I guess there's a point there :-> | 21:28 |
| gordc | eglynn: i'll remember to lose the suit ;) | 21:28 |
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| eglynn | anyway last I heard our track runs from late Tuesday afternoon, thru' all day Wed, into Thursday morning | 21:29 |
| eglynn | (no doubt y'all are planning your schedules for the week ...) | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yeah, that's what it looks like on the latest layout form I've been given | 21:29 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: yep, partially clashing with oslo | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | I think we overlap for 5-6 sessions | 21:30 |
| dragondm | Oy. | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I won't be there for much of wednesday | 21:30 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: so if that "Feature parity in storage drivers" session is approved | 21:30 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: (we'd want it to be shceduled for a non-overlap-with-oslo slot) | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | yeah, jd__ will have to juggle a bit | 21:30 |
| eglynn | yeap | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | as I've done for the sessions he proposed for oslo :-) | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | it looks like he has 6 slots to work with for that, so shouldn't be an issue | 21:31 |
| eglynn | cool, intra-PTL horse trading ;) | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | :-) | 21:32 |
| eglynn | just a quick reminder also that jd__, nijaba_ & myself are doing a conference session on ceilo+heat=alarming at 14.20 on Friday | 21:32 |
| * dragondm is now imagining jd_- juggling horses... | 21:32 | |
| eglynn | #link http://openstacksummitnovember2013.sched.org/event/02a1ea504b3dec538eaedca5e31461ed | 21:32 |
| thomasem | How amusing! | 21:32 |
| eglynn | ... we got the graveyard shift ;) | 21:33 |
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| gordc | eglynn: was just going to ask for link | 21:33 |
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| eglynn | BTW do we want to pre-arrange a ceilo evening meet-up? | 21:33 |
| eglynn | I guess we could just glom onto the eNovance event on the thursday evening ... | 21:33 |
| * eglynn is a freeloader ;) | 21:33 | |
| eglynn | #link http://openstacksummitnovember2013.sched.org/event/6d7b3e0f9778fa675cd7f0ea56becba3 | 21:34 |
| eglynn | if memory serves we talked about doing a social event at Portland | 21:34 |
| eglynn | but everyone had too many other parties to go to ... | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | we could plan to meet at the enovance party :-) | 21:35 |
| * gordc is down for a party. | 21:35 | |
| eglynn | cool, sounds like a plan | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | oops, should have read the backlog :-) | 21:35 |
| * terriyu wonders what developer parties are like | 21:36 | |
| dragondm | Depends on th budget :_> | 21:36 |
| gordc | terriyu: lasers. | 21:36 |
| thomasem | terriyu, unicorns | 21:36 |
| eglynn | yep a lot depends on the budget | 21:37 |
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| eglynn | unicorns are expensive ;) | 21:37 |
| terriyu | are you guys going to pull that trick where you tell me to wear certain clothes and I'm only one who shows up to the party dressed that way? | 21:37 |
| gordc | thomasem: that's all you need unicorn and lasers :)... never been to one myself so looking forward to it. | 21:37 |
| dragondm | Just the horse mask. | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | haha | 21:38 |
| thomasem | This is the truth. Because if you can actually get a unicorn, you've probably already had enough to drink. | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | we usually wear meter reader uniforms, right? | 21:38 |
| thomasem | LOL | 21:38 |
| eglynn | yep, with matching peaked caps, very fetching :) | 21:38 |
| thomasem | I just imagined that. It was amazing. Will y'all do a synchronized dance too? | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | ooo, if not this time, definitely in the spring | 21:39 |
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| * dhellmann wants to see jd__ leading us in a line dance on stage | 21:39 | |
| * thomasem does too. | 21:39 | |
| eglynn | #action jd__ choreograph a line dance for summit | 21:40 |
| * dhellmann can't wait to hear jd__'s reaction after reading the meeting log from this week | 21:40 | |
| dhellmann | haha | 21:40 |
| thomasem | I'm sure it'll be grand. :) | 21:40 |
| terriyu | sorry to lead everyone off topic, I guess this is what happens when jd__ is not here ;) | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | eglynn, did we have anything else on the agenda? | 21:40 |
| eglynn | #topic any other business | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:40 | |
| eglynn | or open discussion as its known around these parts ... | 21:41 |
| terriyu | I saw something on the agenda about release python-ceilometerclient | 21:41 |
| terriyu | I don't know if that is still relevant | 21:41 |
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| dhellmann | that's a recurring topic | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | we should verify that there's no need for an update, though | 21:41 |
| eglynn | ah yes | 21:41 |
| eglynn | #topic release python-ceiloclient? | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | I don't think so, is there? | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release python-ceiloclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:41 | |
| eglynn | don't thinks it's required | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | seconded | 21:41 |
| eglynn | the patch to update the global requirements to 1.0.6 finally landed | 21:41 |
| gordc | eglynn: something went in ... i don't remember what it was | 21:41 |
| eglynn | so that 1.0.6 could be pulled in by heat & ceilo itself | 21:42 |
| eglynn | (the latter for the alarm evaluator) | 21:42 |
| gordc | eglynn: nm unit test fix. | 21:42 |
| eglynn | gordc: a-ha ok | 21:42 |
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| eglynn | so no need to re-release then for a test update | 21:43 |
| gordc | agreed | 21:43 |
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| eglynn | #topic open discussion | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:43 | |
| * eglynn has had fun this week kicking the tyres on the new horizon admin metering panel | 21:43 | |
| eglynn | props to lsmola for getting that landed for havana! :) | 21:43 |
| eglynn | found a few nits but should all be nicely ironed out before 2013.2.1 | 21:44 |
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| eglynn | (i.e. first release off stable/havana) | 21:44 |
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| lsmola | eglynn, cool | 21:44 |
| thomasem | Oh, that's awesome. I'll have to go check that out. | 21:44 |
| eglynn | also related to the UX ... | 21:44 |
| eglynn | one of the women-in-openstack intership ideas for icehouse is sparklines capturing the recent trend for resources | 21:45 |
| terriyu | is the new metering panel also in devstack? | 21:45 |
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| eglynn | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OutreachProgramForWomen/Ideas#Sparklines_in_Horizon | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | cool | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | terriyu: it should be, if it's in horizon | 21:45 |
| eglynn | terriyu: it's in havana, so defo on master | 21:45 |
| lsmola | terriyu, yes I install it via devstack | 21:45 |
| eglynn | terriyu: (note though, admin only for now) | 21:45 |
| eglynn | terriyu: (not visible if you log in as a joe-soap user) | 21:46 |
| terriyu | cool, thanks for the info guys | 21:46 |
| terriyu | eglynn: cool intern project, thanks for pointing it out | 21:46 |
| eglynn | terriyu: yeah, could be quite neat visual candy for new users | 21:47 |
| eglynn | (possible on-ramp to more folks paying attention to ceilo ...) | 21:47 |
| terriyu | eglynn: I hope one of the interns picks that project :) | 21:47 |
| eglynn | terriyu: yep, me too! | 21:48 |
| lsmola | it would be cool | 21:48 |
| eglynn | not much else from me ... | 21:48 |
| eglynn | oh, one other thing | 21:48 |
| terriyu | lsmola: since you're a mentor, you can drop by #openstack-opw and say hi to the applicants | 21:48 |
| eglynn | last 'normal' release off stable/grizzly ... https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/2013.1.4 | 21:48 |
| eglynn | from now on, stable/grizzly will prolly be limited to security fixes | 21:49 |
| gordc | eglynn: did we resolve the havana wsme issue? | 21:49 |
| lsmola | terriyu, I am already there, but i did't say hi :-) | 21:49 |
| eglynn | please continue to tag havana bugs though for stable/havana if appropriate | 21:49 |
| lsmola | terriyu, more like waiting for some questions :-) | 21:49 |
| terriyu | lsmola: ok, I'll try to direct some applicants your way | 21:50 |
| eglynn | gordc: we pinned the dependency version to < 5.5b6 IIRC | 21:50 |
| lsmola | terriyu, ok, cool | 21:50 |
| gordc | eglynn: ah cool cool. i'll take a look. i just remembered we had a bunch of havana patches sitting around. | 21:50 |
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| eglynn | gordc: (that was on stable/grizzly that the wsme version is limited, on master we're up to latest I think) | 21:51 |
| gordc | eglynn: right... i guess i was mostly wondering about this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52426/ | 21:52 |
| eglynn | gordc: here's the exact change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52348/3/tools/pip-requires | 21:52 |
| eglynn | gordc: ouch, didn;t realize that wasn't merged | 21:53 |
| gordc | eglynn: yeah... i don't think we ever resolved stable/havana | 21:53 |
| eglynn | gordc: OK, thanks for the heads-up, I'll look into that tmrw | 21:53 |
| gordc | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52602/ is just sitting there. | 21:54 |
| gordc | (apologies to everyone for bringing this up late... just remembered) | 21:54 |
| gordc | eglynn: cool, i'll sync up with you on that tomorrow... see what we've decided. | 21:54 |
| eglynn | np! I'll try to upick that gordian knot tmrw ... | 21:54 |
| dhellmann | gordc: better late than never! | 21:55 |
| eglynn | right-o, coming up near the end of our timeslot | 21:55 |
| eglynn | anything else anyone wants to raise? | 21:56 |
| eglynn | going once ... | 21:56 |
| eglynn | going twice ... | 21:56 |
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| eglynn | #endmeeting ceilometer | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 23 21:56:49 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-10-23-21.02.html | 21:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-10-23-21.02.txt | 21:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-10-23-21.02.log.html | 21:56 |
| eglynn | thanks folks! | 21:56 |
| gordc | see yah later | 21:57 |
| thomasem | Thanks. Take it easy! | 21:57 |
| lsmola | thank you, good night :-) | 21:57 |
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