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| sdague | #startmeeting qa | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 10 17:00:19 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:00 |
| sdague | ok, how's around for the QA meeting? | 17:00 |
| ravikumar_hp | hi | 17:00 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 17:00 |
| Anju | hi | 17:00 |
| sdague | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Proposed_Agenda_for_October_10_2013 | 17:00 |
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| sdague | ok, first off, I still need to do the old blueprint purge, a few other things got in the way of that with things like jury duty this week | 17:01 |
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| sdague | #topic Blueprints (sdague) | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| sdague | so I'll work on doing that before next meeting | 17:01 |
| sdague | anyone else have blueprint updates to share? | 17:02 |
| mkoderer | hi | 17:02 |
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| dkranz | Here | 17:03 |
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| giulivo | hi | 17:03 |
| sdague | ok, moving on from bluprints | 17:03 |
| sdague | dkranz: why don't we jump to your topic | 17:04 |
| sdague | #topic Lot's of new negative tests. Do we want that? (dkranz) | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Lot's of new negative tests. Do we want that? (dkranz) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:04 | |
| dkranz | sdague: ok | 17:04 |
| mkoderer | thats a good one | 17:04 |
| dkranz | I am concerned that we have seen a lot of new negative tests. | 17:04 |
| dkranz | Last time this happened it was because they are easy low-hanging fruit for new people | 17:05 |
| dkranz | This is fine but we should have a clearer line between what it in tempest and what is in unit tests | 17:05 |
| giulivo | I added a few "sub-topics" trying to discern which are good and how they should be tagged | 17:05 |
| mkoderer | yes for me there are some that are typical unit tests | 17:06 |
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| dkranz | In an ideal world we would have abstractions where we describe the call to be made and it could be done either as unit or tempest | 17:06 |
| dkranz | And there was the idea of "fuzz" testing as well which never went anywhere | 17:06 |
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| mtreinish | dkranz: I'm fine with negative tests in tempest as long as they're testing api responses. | 17:06 |
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| sdague | I remember marun actually had this idea at the last summit of tests in the neutron tree that tempest could also run in a real env | 17:06 |
| marun | *sigh* yes | 17:07 |
| sdague | but I don't think that got any progress | 17:07 |
| mtreinish | it goes back to the reason we have api tests in general | 17:07 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes, I have discussed it with others as well | 17:07 |
| marun | I did a proof of concept in may but haven't gotten farther | 17:07 |
| marun | I should probably post the proof of concept so others can take over | 17:07 |
| marun | i'll make sure to have something to show by the summit | 17:07 |
| dkranz | I think we would want some kind of yaml or something that describes the actual test data | 17:08 |
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| mkoderer | marun: could you paste a link to that poc? | 17:08 |
| dkranz | The review team could spend all day reviewing negative tests and it might be better to work on making this easier to create and review. | 17:08 |
| marun | mkoderer: I never polished it for public consumption, I'm afraid. | 17:08 |
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| mkoderer | marun: ok I see | 17:08 |
| sdague | marun you going to be in HK? | 17:09 |
| marun | mkoderer: I'll have to dig it up and get it working again. | 17:09 |
| marun | sdague: yes | 17:09 |
| sdague | I think this would be a great summit session especially if you had that poc ready | 17:09 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think I already added it to proposed on the etherpad | 17:09 |
| sdague | dkranz: great | 17:09 |
| sdague | honestly, right now, I'm torn on negative testing | 17:09 |
| sdague | on the one hand, it's adding coverage | 17:10 |
| dkranz | sdague: Well, I think we should have it, but it needs to be easier to write and review | 17:10 |
| sdague | but it definitely could be done close to the projects | 17:10 |
| dkranz | sdague: The projects could consider tempest to be "closer" than they currently do | 17:10 |
| dkranz | sdague: Some are actually making movements to be closer | 17:10 |
| sdague | dkranz: so in the short term, I'd propose that we continue to let folks propose it | 17:10 |
| sdague | but that we ensure all the negative tests are in seperate files | 17:11 |
| sdague | so it would be easier to purge out later | 17:11 |
| dkranz | sdague: That seems reasonable | 17:11 |
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| mkoderer | and they should use the "negative" attr type | 17:11 |
| sdague | then we can make final decisions at summit | 17:11 |
| sdague | mkoderer: yep | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | sdague: sounds like another hacking file update | 17:11 |
| dkranz | sdague: But we should also suggest that no one concentrate on that | 17:11 |
| sdague | people have been pretty good about it | 17:11 |
| sdague | dkranz: sure | 17:11 |
| sdague | ok, volunteers for the hacking update? | 17:11 |
| dkranz | Once they are up to speed on tempest they should focus on higher-value tests | 17:12 |
| afazekas | several negative test are not just simple malformed request, or a reference to a non existing resource | 17:12 |
| giulivo | yeah I still have concerns about that, for instance | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | sdague: I guess I'll do it since I brought it up | 17:12 |
| giulivo | - some are "validating strings", like passing long strings or checking for invalid vs. non existent uuids | 17:12 |
| giulivo | shall we accept both tests? | 17:12 |
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| sdague | #action mtreinish to update hacking | 17:12 |
| giulivo | - some are "traversing" the components, like ensuring we can't attach resources to non existent servers | 17:12 |
| dkranz | giulivo: Those cases are malformed requests | 17:13 |
| giulivo | shall we accept such a kind of negative? | 17:13 |
| sdague | #action mtreinish to update hacking to describe negative tests in dedicated files | 17:13 |
| mkoderer | giulivo: yes that a point.. I saw all of them in one review | 17:13 |
| giulivo | sorry dkranz why malformed? | 17:13 |
| dkranz | giulivo: string too long | 17:13 |
| sdague | giulivo: negative is typically more fuzz testing of the API, throwing it garbage | 17:13 |
| sdague | afazekas: do you have a good more complicated example? | 17:14 |
| giulivo | so if I get it right, non of those is acceptable | 17:14 |
| dkranz | I'm fine with those if we don't have to write them long-hand | 17:14 |
| dkranz | and review them | 17:14 |
| afazekas | Do we want to remove the 'negative' flag from test cases which not just simple fuzz ? Like the auth related ones ? | 17:14 |
| sdague | dkranz: right, so this is about some kind of automation on fuzzing | 17:14 |
| sdague | afazekas: code example of that? | 17:14 |
| mkoderer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50217/5 | 17:15 |
| mkoderer | maybe this one? | 17:15 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes but it is two parts: declarative test spec, and parameterized randomization | 17:15 |
| dkranz | sdague: Not all cases have to be randomly generated | 17:15 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50122/ rejected | 17:15 |
| dkranz | afazekas: That was rejected for bad spelling, not content | 17:16 |
| afazekas | owner_accept | 17:16 |
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| afazekas | test_image_share_v2_owner_accept | 17:16 |
| afazekas | dkranz: the 'rejected' test is not 'negative' sorry | 17:17 |
| sdague | dkranz: ok, so that sounds like actually another good topic, and slightly different from marun's one | 17:17 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Yes. A simple negative test could require setup that is non-trivial | 17:17 |
| sdague | yep | 17:17 |
| dkranz | So for now perhaps we can just say that we will accept negative tests but not make them a priority | 17:18 |
| dkranz | ANd come up with a better plan at the summit | 17:18 |
| mkoderer | good plan | 17:18 |
| ravikumar_hp | dkranz: yes. and already we have good coverage | 17:18 |
| mkoderer | we should create a blueprint after the summit | 17:18 |
| mtreinish | mkoderer: did you get your travel approval for hk? | 17:19 |
| dkranz | It would be good to have a ml discussion about this prior to the summit to make it more effective | 17:19 |
| dkranz | This is a big topic | 17:19 |
| afazekas | https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/api/compute/test_authorization.py looks like these does not have the negative flag | 17:19 |
| sdague | dkranz: yes, agreed | 17:19 |
| sdague | dkranz: you want to kick that thread off? | 17:19 |
| dkranz | sdague: OK. I will discuss it with marun | 17:19 |
| mkoderer | mtreinish: most probably yes | 17:19 |
| sdague | great | 17:19 |
| sdague | #action dkranz to kick off the thread on openstack-dev list about approaches on negative and shared testing with projects | 17:20 |
| dkranz | sdague: Were you thinking tagged with [qa] or not? | 17:21 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I was going to tag it | 17:21 |
| afazekas | https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/api/compute/admin/test_flavors_access.py | 17:21 |
| sdague | yeh, it should be tagged | 17:21 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think that's it for that topic | 17:22 |
| sdague | ok, great | 17:23 |
| sdague | mtreinish: how about you next | 17:23 |
| sdague | #topic Elastic Recheck Top issues (mtreinish) | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Elastic Recheck Top issues (mtreinish) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:23 | |
| mtreinish | oh, this is a weekly thing now | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | #link http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | so we're actually doing really good since er went live | 17:24 |
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| mtreinish | most of the big bugs have been fixed | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | most of the remaining issues are on the neutron side | 17:24 |
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| mtreinish | there are some new ones popping up that we need to classify still | 17:24 |
| sdague | yeh, ER is already a pretty awesome tool | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | so if you find a nondeterministic failure and can identify it with a logstash query please submit a review to add it to the query list | 17:25 |
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| sdague | #link https://github.com/openstack-infra/elastic-recheck | 17:26 |
| sdague | for people that haven't seen the code yet | 17:26 |
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| dkranz | Very cool | 17:26 |
| mkoderer | great work | 17:26 |
| sdague | ok, lets talk about a related issue, dkranz on whitelisting errors | 17:26 |
| sdague | #topic Rollout plan for failing builds that pass tempest but with spurious log ERRORs (dkranz) | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rollout plan for failing builds that pass tempest but with spurious log ERRORs (dkranz) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:27 | |
| dkranz | sdague: So the patch is up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50795/ | 17:27 |
| dkranz | Many of the non-neutron runs are showing no non-whitelisted errors | 17:27 |
| dkranz | I think the next steps are to | 17:27 |
| dkranz | 1. Use elastic recheck to track non-deterministic bogus error messages | 17:28 |
| dkranz | 2. Communicate all this to the dev list | 17:28 |
| dkranz | 3. Start failing builds | 17:28 |
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| dkranz | 4. Build some kind of momentum to actually get people fixing the bugs | 17:28 |
| sdague | that sounds pretty reasonable | 17:28 |
| dkranz | I have looked at a lot of errors in the past day and many of them look like real bugs to me | 17:29 |
| dkranz | Not just bogus errors | 17:29 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: for step 1 you'll need to open bugs for all the non-deterministic bogus error messages you hit | 17:29 |
| dkranz | But on one pays attention to the logs when a build succeeds | 17:29 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: I was thinking of doing it in a slightly different way | 17:30 |
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| sdague | dkranz: so something like http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ for showing the occurance of these might be helpful | 17:30 |
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| dkranz | Based on what appears in the tempest log | 17:30 |
| sdague | just those graphs seemed to make a difference to people in understanding how bad the problems were, and being able to see them go away | 17:30 |
| dkranz | sdague: Agreed | 17:30 |
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| dkranz | So please comment on that patch when you get a chance | 17:31 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Ideally each group would have some one paying attention to their log errors | 17:32 |
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| dkranz | The ignoring of these errors is a huge weakness in the tempest methodology | 17:32 |
| sdague | yeh, but sun light will help | 17:33 |
| dkranz | A test can pass but the system is screwed up afterword | 17:33 |
| dkranz | sdague: +1 | 17:33 |
| sdague | ok, I actually got to run away, dkranz can you take over the rest of the meeting? | 17:33 |
| dkranz | sdague: Sure | 17:33 |
| dkranz | sdague: Just a sec | 17:33 |
| dkranz | We done with this? | 17:34 |
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| sdague | I think so | 17:34 |
| dkranz | #topic Stable Branch Timing | 17:34 |
| dkranz | What happened to the topic bot? | 17:34 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I think you need to be sdague to do that | 17:35 |
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| mtreinish | since he started the meeting | 17:35 |
| dkranz | Oh well. | 17:35 |
| dkranz | ANyway, next topic | 17:35 |
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| dkranz | I had proposed branching as late as possible | 17:35 |
| dkranz | Any other theories? | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I'm fine with that | 17:35 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: So when would that be? Release day? | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | I don't think we should do it the same time as the other projects | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | so next week | 17:36 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: RIght, haven't some already done it? | 17:36 |
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| mtreinish | they've rc'd but I don't think anything is done yet | 17:36 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: OK, so the release day is the 17th | 17:37 |
| mkoderer | I think branching it as late as possible is the easiest way | 17:37 |
| dkranz | We could just do it then | 17:37 |
| mtreinish | do you want to do a milestone proposed branch or just go straight to a havana branch? | 17:37 |
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| giulivo | mtreinish, I was going to propose that, a milestone-proposed branch | 17:38 |
| giulivo | but I'd also branch the same day as other projects then, why wait one week more? | 17:38 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: Well, if we are waiting until release day I'm not sure why we need milestone-proposed | 17:38 |
| mtreinish | yeah that's how I feel too | 17:38 |
| giulivo | dkehn, my idea is that people wanting to propose stuff for the stable branch will have to use milestone-proposed | 17:38 |
| dkranz | giulivo: Because we are still writing havana tests they will have to be backported once we branch | 17:39 |
| giulivo | dkranz, ^^ | 17:39 |
| mtreinish | ttx: do you have any thoughts on this topic? | 17:39 |
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| giulivo | dkranz, yeah to solve that very same issue, I'd use a milestone-proposed branch but branch the 17th | 17:40 |
| giulivo | (branch our stable, on the 17th) | 17:40 |
| mtreinish | giulivo: there's no difference at that point from just doing a stable branch | 17:40 |
| dkranz | giulivo: I don't see how that changes anything | 17:41 |
| mtreinish | we did a milestone proposed last cycle because we broke something for the rcs when we added a test (I think) | 17:41 |
| dkranz | giulivo: The back port rule is our policy | 17:41 |
| giulivo | so I think it's important branching the same day as other projects | 17:41 |
| giulivo | and the backport rule remains in place for the future additions | 17:41 |
| dkranz | giulivo: We can't because they don't all do it on the same day | 17:41 |
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| giulivo | but tests submitted closer to the branch date, if relevant for the release, can be posted to the milestone and avoid being skipped | 17:42 |
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| dkranz | I think there is little risk. The 17th is one week from now | 17:42 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: lets just say we'll cut the stable/havana right before next week's meeting | 17:42 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Works for me | 17:42 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: I can't remember who actually does that. Infra? | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | #info stable/havana branch to be cut right before next meeting | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: sdague will know | 17:43 |
| dkranz | OK, any more comments on that? | 17:43 |
| dkranz | #topic Design Summit Initial Planning | 17:44 |
| dkranz | https://etherpad.openstack.org/icehouse-qa-session-planning | 17:45 |
| dkranz | So we have 7 proposals and 13 slots | 17:45 |
| dkranz | We don't have to use all of them, but please add to the etherpad if you have ideas. | 17:46 |
| ravikumar_hp | dranz: is this the place to add under proposed ? | 17:46 |
| dkranz | ravikumar_hp: Yes, the etherpad I pasted above | 17:46 |
| ravikumar_hp | http://summit.openstack.org/ ? | 17:47 |
| mkoderer | no use the etherpad and put it under "Proposed" | 17:47 |
| ravikumar_hp | ok | 17:47 |
| dkranz | ravikumar_hp: I think the plan was to do it in the etherpad because it is better for communication | 17:47 |
| dkranz | ravikumar_hp: Of course any one who is not participating in these meetings can propose a session on summit.openstack.org | 17:48 |
| dkranz | ravikumar_hp: That site is a clumsy tool for collaboration | 17:48 |
| dkranz | Any other comments on this topic? | 17:49 |
| mkoderer | btw it's my first summit, so if someone want to give me some word how a talk should look like | 17:49 |
| ravikumar_hp | dkranz: thanks. i got it | 17:49 |
| mkoderer | would be great | 17:49 |
| dkranz | mkoderer: No talks! | 17:49 |
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| mkoderer | I mean I need to prepare something right? | 17:49 |
| dkranz | mkoderer: The summit sessions are discussions. YOu can have a few intro slides, but that's it | 17:49 |
| mkoderer | dkranz: ok just a few slides good | 17:50 |
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| dkranz | mkoderer: And try to have enough discussion beforehand so it can be effective | 17:50 |
| mkoderer | dkranz: ok cool | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | mkoderer: just having an etherpad with an outline of discussion points is normally all that is done up front | 17:50 |
| mkoderer | ok fine | 17:50 |
| dkranz | OK, any critical reviews before open discussion? | 17:51 |
| dkranz | Other than my error log check :) | 17:51 |
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| mlavalle | dkranz: aren't we going to talk about Neutron? I see it in the agenda | 17:51 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: Yes! That had sean's name but please tell | 17:52 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: I've been working on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/swift/+bug/1224001 | 17:52 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1224001 in neutron "test_network_basic_ops fails waiting for network to become available" [Critical,Fix released] | 17:52 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: I saw a number of things in the neutron log files after succesful runs that looked like real bugs | 17:53 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: I've been doing this with marun and salv-orlando | 17:53 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: for reviews both: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49559/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49562/ | 17:53 |
| mtreinish | to split out the unit tests from the jenkins runs | 17:53 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: doesn't everything run in jenkins? | 17:54 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: salv-orlando proposed a fix to neutron that should help with test_network_basic_ops fails | 17:54 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I should have worded it more clearly. make the unit tests a separate jenkins job only for tempest | 17:54 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Oh, ok | 17:54 |
| mtreinish | instead of running it with everything else | 17:55 |
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| dkranz | mlavalle: That's great | 17:55 |
| marun | we definitely need to address errors in the log on otherwise successful runs | 17:55 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: looking at the elastic-recheck graph 1224001 is still happening | 17:55 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: I'll test tonight or tomorrow | 17:55 |
| marun | it's confusing things when we have failures - hard to see the forest for the trees. | 17:55 |
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| mtreinish | or do you think it's just an overzealous query | 17:56 |
| mlavalle | mtreinish: I don't know. I need to look at it carefully | 17:56 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ | 17:57 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: ok | 17:57 |
| marun | i've been seeing failures that gerrit attributes to 124001 that are not due to a neutron test failure. | 17:57 |
| mlavalle | mtreinish: thanks i'll look at it | 17:57 |
| dkranz | We only have a few minutes left | 17:57 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: thanks | 17:57 |
| mtreinish | marun: it looks for 'tempest.scenario.test_network_basic_ops AssertionError: Timed out waiting for' in the test output | 17:57 |
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| dkranz | mlavalle, marun : anything else on neutron? | 17:57 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: i'm done | 17:57 |
| marun | i'm done | 17:58 |
| marun | mtreinish: i'll follow up offline about the bug detection | 17:58 |
| mtreinish | marun: ok | 17:58 |
| dkranz | ok, anything else from any one? We had a full agenda today. | 17:58 |
| Anju | dkranz: can we renamed the Duplicate exception to Conflict ? | 17:58 |
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| Anju | dkranz: can we rename the Duplicate exception to Conflict ? | 17:58 |
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| mkoderer | let's discuss it after the meeting? | 17:59 |
| Anju | as 409 depicts Conflict | 17:59 |
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| dkranz | Yes, we are out of time. | 17:59 |
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| Anju | sure | 17:59 |
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| dkranz | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| mtreinish | fungi, clarkb, jeblair: ^^^ | 18:00 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Can sdague end the meeting now or is he really gone? | 18:00 |
| mtreinish | sdague is away how do we end the meeting | 18:00 |
| clarkb | there is a timeout in meetbot | 18:00 |
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| clarkb | it is 60 minutes, so anyone can end it after that timeout | 18:00 |
| clarkb | try it again | 18:00 |
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| dkranz | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 10 18:00:57 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-10-10-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-10-10-17.00.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-10-10-17.00.log.html | 18:01 |
| mtreinish | clarkb: very cool | 18:01 |
| clarkb | woot it worked | 18:01 |
| dkranz | clarkb: Thanks! | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:01 |
| clarkb | the first endmeeting was a few second early :) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 10 18:01:12 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | Hi security group! | 18:01 |
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| joel-coffman | hello | 18:01 |
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| malini1 | Greetings! | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | I'd like to continue talking about the summit today | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | And get updates on any work in progress | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | Anything else on people's minds? | 18:02 |
| n41902 | hi | 18:02 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 18:02 |
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| sdague | oh, someone else managed it :) | 18:02 |
| joel-coffman | not from me | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | ok, let's start with wip | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | #topic Work In Progress | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | On my end, the folks at White Hat Security have offered to do a free security assessment of Horizon | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | they have tools that will perform a scan, and then they do some human analysis to weed out false positives and such | 18:04 |
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| joel-coffman | what kind of scan? | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | Since the OpenStack folk are still working on standing up a reference implementation, I'll be working with White Hat to use a Nebula installation for the scanning | 18:04 |
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| bdpayne | basically the can scan web services for a variety of security issues | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | I'm still flushing out the details | 18:05 |
| joel-coffman | oh, that sounds good | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | they can't do REST APIs, aparently | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | so it will be just Horizon | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | but that's still useful | 18:05 |
| malini1 | bdpayne: your scan checklist will be a juicy addition for the security guide | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | checklist? | 18:06 |
| thomasbiege2 | do we have a list do test cases they use? (I didn't follow the thread to be honest) | 18:06 |
| malini1 | is not "flushing out the details" a checklist? | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | oh I see | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | yeah, I'll need to learn more about what they are doing | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | I do not currently know all of their test cases | 18:07 |
| thomasbiege2 | ok | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | I would think that the security guide may be improved if there's a deployment option that can mitigate problems better | 18:07 |
| thomasbiege2 | test coverage could also be interesting | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | so we'll see how this goes | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | but I just wanted to let people know that this was starting to take shape | 18:08 |
| thomasbiege2 | cool | 18:08 |
| malini1 | absolutely cool | 18:08 |
| salv-orlando | [ | 18:08 |
| salv-orlando | . | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | Any other ongoing projects people would llke to discuss? | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | slides? | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | dev work? | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | new blueprints? | 18:08 |
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| joel-coffman | quiet from our end right now | 18:09 |
| malini1 | sorry: my WIP -- edits on guide and slides -- no further progress. looks this way till Dec | 18:09 |
| salv-orlando | sorry guys. Those two messages were brought to you by my kitten. | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | np on the kitten issue | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | :-) | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | #topic Summit Planning | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Planning (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:10 | |
| elo | hi. little late... | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | So I shared this previously | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqnzHH5YYzZvdHM0R042U0t5LTNXWFp1MlB2VHpCZmc&usp=sharing#gid=0 | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | hi elo | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | Still need to go through the dev sessions once those are flushed out | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | I'd also like to have an OSSG gathering at the summit | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | For those that are attending, any preferences on when that takes place? | 18:11 |
| joel-coffman | not from me | 18:12 |
| malini1 | no preference from me | 18:12 |
| elo | thursday/friday I'm not available for a few hour due to sessions that I'm helping out on | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | ok, I'm leaning towards finding a long lunch one day | 18:12 |
| malini1 | i submitted a geo-tagging design session and blueprint | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | I'll review the schedule and try to find a time with minimal potential conflicts | 18:13 |
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| bdpayne | malini1 interesting | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | feel free to add any dev sessions of interest to the wiki | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | s/wiki/google doc/ | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | even at this stage, without knowing what is accepted there | 18:14 |
| joel-coffman | link to the blueprint? | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | would be good to start tracking stuff | 18:14 |
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| malini1 | will do, but it may be rejected | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | of course | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | So, a few more words on the summit... | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | I view the summit as an opportunity to (1) reflect on how we've done over the past 6 months, and (2) plan for the next 6 months | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | I'd like to discuss both of these items at the OSSG meeting at the summit | 18:15 |
| malini1 | i think for next summit we should aim for a workshop, 1-2 hours on securiing and openstack implementation | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | But, some prep between now and then could make that discussion more fruitful | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | malini1 perfect | 18:16 |
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| bdpayne | so, yeah, I was going to ask for ideas / goals / etc for the upcoming 6 months | 18:16 |
| malini1 | Absolutely, like your Nebula reference impl and what makes it secure | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | basically, where would you like to see OSSG heading | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | yeah, that would be interesting | 18:17 |
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| bdpayne | any other ideas? | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | surely there's plenty of ways that OSSG can improve / have more influence / etc | 18:18 |
| malini1 | I thin OSSG is gaining momentum with the guide, the OSSNs and being a crosscutting entity across the OS projects, but have to be more vocal, kind of establish ourselves such that people come to us "please take a look" type thing | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | yeah | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | I think that will come with more specific involvement in each project | 18:19 |
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| bdpayne | we could really benefit from having people just dig in and get involved in the various projects | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | ok, well the key take away here is to really think about this topic | 18:20 |
| joel-coffman | agreed, it's difficult to review code for security issues when unfamiliar with the context | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | I'd like to have a good discussion on it at the summit | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | specifically: | 18:20 |
| malini1 | for one thing, coming from Intel and TXT land, at the very least I have to be savvy setting it up, its limitations (like its OK for VMMs, but not yet for bare metal, so we are not yet there for TXT for the openstack service nodes) | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | * What are the problems / areas we can improve | 18:20 |
| joel-coffman | or contribute security-related bug fixes | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | * What are specific things we can do to improve | 18:20 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Other business | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other business (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:21 | |
| bdpayne | So that's all that I have for today… anything else on people's minds? | 18:21 |
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| bdpayne | Hearing none, I guess we're all done here | 18:22 |
| malini1 | would be nice to research "known holes" and share with each other. For instance security wrt to SR-IOV | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | ah… | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | agreed | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | malini1 on a similar topic, I'd be interested in more information on Intel SGX | 18:23 |
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| malini1 | :-) Will learn more and get back to you on it. | 18:23 |
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| malini1 | anything specific | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | clearly it's new, not out yet, but I think it may have a role to play for securing nodes | 18:24 |
| malini1 | can even bug developers | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | specifically, I'm curious if this could be used to protect a security agent on a host that then uses memory introspection techniques to monitor the host and, perhaps, the VMs / containers on that host | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | and, if it can, then I'd like to play with engineering samples :-) | 18:25 |
| malini1 | on a separate note, I am relishing the many flavors of the word "TEAM", for it it means making things possible, achieving things, because we leverage each others strengths | 18:25 |
| malini1 | OK, that is an action item for me. | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | cool, thanks | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | for those not interested in SGX, check out the Intel presentations here https://sites.google.com/site/haspworkshop2013/workshop-program | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | s/interested/ familiar/ :-) | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | ok, then I think we're really done here | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | thanks everyone | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | cya next time | 18:27 |
| thomasbiege2 | bye | 18:27 |
| joel-coffman | cheers | 18:27 |
| randy_perryman | bye | 18:27 |
| malini1 | bye | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 10 18:27:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-10-10-18.01.html | 18:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-10-10-18.01.txt | 18:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-10-10-18.01.log.html | 18:27 |
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| ttx | mtreinish: for oslo-incubator we went directly to stable/havana | 18:44 |
| mtreinish | ttx: ok, yeah that's what we decided to do too | 18:45 |
| mtreinish | we're going to cut the branch next week | 18:45 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 10 20:00:09 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management' | 20:00 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement | 20:00 |
| harlowja | hi folks | 20:00 |
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| harlowja | anyone around today | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | or just me, short meeting if just me, ha | 20:01 |
| melnikov | hi there | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hi melnikov | 20:01 |
| tsufiev | hi! | 20:01 |
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| changbl | hey guys | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hey hey | 20:02 |
| caitlin56 | hi | 20:02 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:02 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:02 |
| harlowja | #topic action-items-from-last-week | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action-items-from-last-week (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:03 | |
| harlowja | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-10-03-20.00.html | 20:03 |
| harlowja | so i was supposed to start best-practicies wiki | 20:03 |
| harlowja | i haven't yet :( | 20:03 |
| harlowja | i'll do it very soon/today, i swear | 20:03 |
| harlowja | i don't think there was any other action items :) | 20:04 |
| harlowja | *bad josh* | 20:04 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:04 |
| harlowja | #topic announcements | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:04 | |
| harlowja | so i'd like to thank melnikov for getting the resumption stuff in, its pretty cool, and i recommend people try it | 20:05 |
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| changbl | +1 melnikov | 20:05 |
| harlowja | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50770/ is a neato example | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | *instructions at bottom of code | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | the other useful annoucement i think is that the distributed stuff i think might have to wait for 0.2, i think its been hard for jessica to work on it while also doing school work | 20:07 |
| harlowja | and i'd rather get a release out soon and get that in when we can | 20:08 |
| harlowja | it should be a complementary piece of code, so i think that seems fair | 20:08 |
| harlowja | just wanted to let people know | 20:09 |
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| harlowja | #topic release | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:10 | |
| harlowja | so in other news, i think we can get out a release like next week, does that seem fair to folks? | 20:10 |
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| harlowja | and was wondering what version number we should call it | 20:10 |
| harlowja | 0.1? | 20:10 |
| harlowja | 1.0? | 20:10 |
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| harlowja | 0.33333 | 20:11 |
| melnikov | yeah, let's release it next week, and call it 0.1 | 20:11 |
| changbl | 0.1? | 20:11 |
| harlowja | k | 20:11 |
| harlowja | sounds good to me | 20:11 |
| harlowja | then we can finally get off the update.py stuff | 20:11 |
| harlowja | +2 | 20:12 |
| melnikov | i'd like to add last missing bit for resumption before release | 20:12 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:12 |
| harlowja | melnikov ok | 20:12 |
| harlowja | seems fair | 20:12 |
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| harlowja | 0.1 for next week (maybe around the same time) | 20:13 |
| harlowja | *thursdayish | 20:13 |
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| harlowja | awesome! | 20:13 |
| harlowja | #topic icehouse-integration | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-integration (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:13 | |
| harlowja | so before the summit, i was thinking we can see who might be interested in integrating vs taskflow-core, and see how we can make sure that goes successfully | 20:14 |
| harlowja | i've signed up for a little more cinder work there, and hopefully nova | 20:14 |
| harlowja | working with john there | 20:15 |
| harlowja | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/IcehouseConductorTasksNextSteps | 20:15 |
| harlowja | but of course others can help to :) | 20:15 |
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| kebray | just got to my desk.. sort of tuning in :-) | 20:16 |
| harlowja | *just something to think about before the summit* | 20:16 |
| harlowja | kebray np | 20:16 |
| caitlin56 | Nexenta is interested in cinder optimizations via taskflow, starting with backup. | 20:16 |
| harlowja | caitlin56 great | 20:16 |
| harlowja | i know the cinder folks hemna and others i think want to see how far we can get | 20:16 |
| harlowja | the resumption stuff is pretty powerful | 20:16 |
| hemna | :) | 20:17 |
| harlowja | and i think will work nicely when integrated | 20:17 |
| harlowja | there is also some recent discussions around convection, tsufiev and others and i have been talking | 20:17 |
| harlowja | hopefully we can solidify a plan/project that will also use taskflow there soon | 20:18 |
| caitlin56 | harlowja: have you had a chance to talk with bswartz of Netapp yet about Manila? He's planning it to be very derived from Cinder, so it should be easy to support Manila. | 20:18 |
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| harlowja | i haven't yet, i should though | 20:18 |
| harlowja | let me see if i can get around to at least an invite and chat | 20:18 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja bswartz, netapp, manila, taskflow chit-chat | 20:19 |
| caitlin56 | you can usually find him on #openstack-manila | 20:19 |
| harlowja | k | 20:19 |
| harlowja | great | 20:19 |
| harlowja | thx caitlin56 | 20:19 |
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| tsufiev | harlowja, yes, considering convection and future designs we have etherpad at https://etherpad.openstack.org/TaskServiceDesign | 20:19 |
| harlowja | hemna jgriffith as for cinder, i was thinking with the current create_volume, if i plug in the resumption stuff for havana, that would be a pretty good goal ya | 20:20 |
| tsufiev | just an initial version ) | 20:20 |
| harlowja | thx tsufiev | 20:20 |
| harlowja | i'll add some comments there soon (After all these darn meetings, ha) | 20:21 |
| harlowja | but i think the api and even definitions u guys have in that etherpad are nearly 1:1 matches for whats in taskflow, ha | 20:21 |
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| tsufiev | glad to hear that, that means we could easily use your library | 20:22 |
| harlowja | ya, i think so | 20:23 |
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| harlowja | hopefully can be some 'task-service' sessions about this in HK | 20:24 |
| harlowja | i'm sure kebray would be interested | 20:24 |
| harlowja | since afaik he wrote up https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Convection :-P | 20:24 |
| harlowja | kebray u probably want to be involved i would think, if u have free time | 20:25 |
| harlowja | *just a suggetion* | 20:25 |
| harlowja | anyways, thats a good transition to next topic | 20:26 |
| harlowja | #topic keith-and-my-speaker-session-hk | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keith-and-my-speaker-session-hk (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:26 | |
| harlowja | so kebray and i will be doing a joint-speaker stuff | 20:26 |
| harlowja | still collecting ideas for what to talk about @ https://etherpad.openstack.org/TaskflowHKIdeas | 20:26 |
| harlowja | feel free to add anything u guys feel will be useful | 20:27 |
| harlowja | as a dev, i of course like to see code, but maybe i should avoid that in this talk, ha | 20:27 |
| harlowja | and just have a nice set of examples i can run, and documentation and slides | 20:27 |
| harlowja | and pretty arrows and boxes | 20:27 |
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| harlowja | i think kebray and i will try to meetup the week after next, can hopefully have something around then, so that we aren't unprepared | 20:29 |
| harlowja | can get some feedback from all u folks | 20:29 |
| harlowja | beforehand | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | ok, feel free to add ideas there, hopefully can have more content soon :-P | 20:31 |
| harlowja | #topic flow control strategies | 20:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "flow control strategies (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:31 | |
| harlowja | so i created a little brainstorming etherpad for 'flow control' (think if statement) in a workflow | 20:32 |
| harlowja | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/BrainstormFlowConditions | 20:32 |
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| harlowja | i think its a useful feature to have, and am just collecting potential ideas on how to do it | 20:32 |
| harlowja | if others want to ask questions, comments, please do | 20:32 |
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| harlowja | *ideas that don't reinvent to much of how python already does it | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | so suggestions and thoughts are welcome | 20:33 |
| caitlin56 | Are you thinking of building a state-machine from non-procedural xml, and just plugging code into the state machine? | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | caitlin56 was that for the convection service? | 20:34 |
| harlowja | *was that a question releated to convection i mean | 20:34 |
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| caitlin56 | Where are you thinking of doing conditions? | 20:35 |
| harlowja | the flow conditions was more of how do u make the execution graph handle one path or another path based on a decision | 20:35 |
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| caitlin56 | Because unless you are doing a full state-machine, why not leave conditions to python code? | 20:35 |
| harlowja | python code doesn't have control over the underlying execution graph when running | 20:35 |
| harlowja | let me make a simple example | 20:36 |
| caitlin56 | So you describe a state machine, and the state machine launches python sequences that are more or less straight-forward. | 20:36 |
| harlowja | sure, so i think we are actually thinking the same thing, ha | 20:37 |
| harlowja | just different terminology | 20:38 |
| harlowja | http://paste.openstack.org/show/48244/ is an example | 20:38 |
| harlowja | so task X and Y, when they run in the engine can't actually alter what the engine is running | 20:38 |
| harlowja | what happens internally is that flow is converted into an execution graph, the graph doesn't yet have information about 'conditions' between nodes in the graph | 20:39 |
| harlowja | i think this is where u are thinking of a statemachine (which would have those edge conditions) | 20:39 |
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| harlowja | but correct me if i am wrong | 20:41 |
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| caitlin56 | From my previous experience with state machines, it is important that everyone has about the same idea of what should be an 'if' within a sequence, and what should be handled by the outer state machine. | 20:42 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:43 |
| harlowja | in the cases here i think we are talking about the outer state machine | 20:43 |
| harlowja | and not internal to a task | 20:43 |
| harlowja | so lets try to maybe continue this on the etherpad, make sure its all clear | 20:44 |
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| harlowja | and if its not clear, then we'll keep on working until it is, ha | 20:45 |
| harlowja | alright, i don't have much else, anyone else have any topics? | 20:46 |
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| harlowja | #topic open-discuss | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:47 | |
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| harlowja | caitlin56 your thoughts would be very much appreciated on the https://etherpad.openstack.org/BrainstormFlowConditions :) | 20:48 |
| harlowja | make sure its clear | 20:48 |
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| harlowja | alright, guess we can end 10 minute early :-P | 20:50 |
| harlowja | thx all for coming | 20:50 |
| caitlin56 | ok, reading now. | 20:51 |
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| harlowja | np | 20:51 |
| harlowja | much appreciated | 20:51 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 10 20:51:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-10-10-20.00.html | 20:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-10-10-20.00.txt | 20:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-10-10-20.00.log.html | 20:51 |
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| * russellb waits a couple minutes for stragglers | 21:00 | |
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| tjones | hi | 21:00 |
| mrodden | hi | 21:01 |
| mriedem | hi | 21:01 |
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| jog0 | o/ | 21:01 |
| dripton | straggle straggle | 21:02 |
| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 10 21:02:13 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:02 |
| russellb | hello, everyone! | 21:02 |
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| melwitt | hi | 21:02 |
| alaski | hi | 21:02 |
| dripton | hi | 21:02 |
| russellb | #topic havana | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "havana (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| sdague | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | havana release is one week from today | 21:02 |
| russellb | we decided to go ahead and do an RC2 for nova | 21:03 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-rc2 | 21:03 |
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| russellb | i pulled in some stuff that has been fixed and was on havana-rc-potential | 21:03 |
| jog0 | was there any one bug that necessitated that | 21:03 |
| russellb | if there is anything else that you feel should go in, please let me know | 21:03 |
| russellb | jog0: nope | 21:03 |
| mikal | Morning | 21:03 |
| jog0 | russellb: nice | 21:03 |
| russellb | i think the release has been pretty solid | 21:03 |
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| tjones | russleb: via email, or PM, or let you know here? | 21:04 |
| russellb | and these were a set of things that were nice to get in | 21:04 |
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| russellb | tjones: any | 21:04 |
| russellb | but we *really* need to get anything that's a nice to have in by sometime tomorrow | 21:04 |
| sdague | russellb: the boto unit test patch come back over? | 21:04 |
| russellb | anything after that is only absolutely critical stuff | 21:04 |
| mriedem | sdague: yeah, dansmith had a cherry pick | 21:04 |
| sdague | cool | 21:04 |
| tjones | russelb: got it | 21:04 |
| comstud | dansmith: is that obj not detecting sys meta changes be something targetted to rc2? | 21:05 |
| russellb | it's not targeted, no | 21:05 |
| russellb | is there a bug for it? | 21:05 |
| comstud | i didn't see what conditions would catch it | 21:05 |
| comstud | yeah | 21:05 |
| comstud | should be | 21:05 |
| comstud | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1237102\ | 21:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1237102 in nova "Conductor does not properly copy objects during change tracking" [Medium,Fix committed] | 21:06 |
| comstud | without the \ | 21:06 |
| comstud | Maybe it's not currently causing a problem | 21:06 |
| russellb | comstud: dansmith ok well you guys take a look and let me know if you think its impact justifies going into rc2 | 21:06 |
| comstud | yeah | 21:07 |
| russellb | the other havana todo in the next week is finalizing our release notes | 21:07 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Havana#OpenStack_Compute_.28Nova.29 | 21:07 |
| russellb | I think it's really close to complete at this point | 21:07 |
| russellb | we're missing xenapi features and hyper-v features | 21:07 |
| russellb | and that's it | 21:07 |
| russellb | and anything you guys find when you review it :-) | 21:07 |
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| russellb | so take a look | 21:07 |
| russellb | not just the feature list, but also anything appropriate for upgrade notes | 21:08 |
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| russellb | i imagine a *lot* of people will see/read this list, so it's worth making sure it's good/complete/correct/etc | 21:08 |
| russellb | that's all i've got on havana stuff | 21:09 |
| russellb | any comments/questions? | 21:09 |
| russellb | #topic icehouse design summit | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse design summit (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:10 | |
| russellb | #link http://summit.openstack.org/ | 21:10 |
| russellb | we already have more proposals than time slots :) | 21:10 |
| russellb | #info deadline for proposals, oct 17 | 21:10 |
| russellb | please get your stuff in by next week, because we'll need time to sort through them and figure out the schedule | 21:10 |
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| russellb | i talked about making the schedule last week | 21:11 |
| russellb | i decided i want to do it with just a small group, to make sure we can get it done quickly, since there really isn't much time | 21:11 |
| russellb | but everyone is certainly encouraged to comment on proposals with any thoughts you have, and that will influence the end result | 21:11 |
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| yjiang5_ | russellb: I remember you will prefer no sharing this time , right? | 21:12 |
| russellb | yjiang5_: ideally, yes. in the case of duplicates, we might merge | 21:12 |
| russellb | but otherwise, i'd rather avoid merging, yes | 21:13 |
| russellb | which means more might get rejected | 21:13 |
| yjiang5_ | russellb: got it. | 21:13 |
| russellb | but i suspect there will be cases where a mailing list discussion is probably OK | 21:13 |
| comstud | we won't merge unless we merge | 21:13 |
| russellb | something not that controversial, or not as complex, or whatever | 21:13 |
| russellb | comstud: that's accurate | 21:13 |
| comstud | 100% | 21:13 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:13 |
| mikal | DB might make sense for a merge, just to be contrary | 21:14 |
| russellb | mikal: with what? | 21:14 |
| mikal | There are two separate groups working on different DB things, but not enough for two serssions | 21:14 |
| russellb | i saw yours, is there another session though? | 21:14 |
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| mikal | I don't think so. I was goign to trick Boris into using some of mine. | 21:15 |
| mikal | ' | 21:15 |
| russellb | there is this DB one, but it should probably be by itself: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/181 | 21:15 |
| mikal | But I interpret this conversation as saying you'd prefer that didn't happen? | 21:15 |
| russellb | mikal: oh OK, well that would work. if so, please just update your description | 21:15 |
| mikal | ok | 21:15 |
| russellb | no it's more for things where it's really different topics ... or kind of related | 21:15 |
| russellb | anyway, hard to speak about this in general terms | 21:16 |
| mikal | Ahhh, ok | 21:16 |
| russellb | i think the thing that triggered this was scheduler folks | 21:16 |
| mikal | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/16 is the one I was thinking of | 21:16 |
| russellb | i ended up jamming them together in a few sessions last time and they didn't like it :) | 21:16 |
| russellb | it didn't really work great either for some of it | 21:16 |
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| dansmith | oof, sorry, a call went long | 21:17 |
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| russellb | dansmith: unacceptable | 21:17 |
| dansmith | russellb: you know who to blame :) | 21:17 |
| russellb | heh | 21:17 |
| russellb | that's all i have on the design summit for now | 21:17 |
| russellb | unless anyone would like to talk about specific sessions | 21:18 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: you have 2 that might be duplicates ... "Prestart servers for faster boot times" and "Improve VM boot times, by pre-starting VMs" | 21:18 |
| russellb | maybe forgot that you already proposed it? :) | 21:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: oops, sorry | 21:18 |
| russellb | np | 21:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | that explains why the blueprint was already created | 21:19 |
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| russellb | #topic sub-team repots | 21:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sub-team repots (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:19 | |
| russellb | #undo | 21:19 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x31325d0> | 21:19 |
| russellb | #topic sub-team reports | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sub-team reports (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:20 | |
| russellb | any updates from sub-teams? | 21:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | no xenapi meeting this week, but the summit session etherpad is getting worked on offline | 21:20 |
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| mriedem | mrodden: here? | 21:20 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: sounds good, i saw our sessions start to roll in | 21:20 |
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| mriedem | i guess we could talk about powervm CI | 21:21 |
| russellb | cool, how's that coming | 21:21 |
| mriedem | mrodden: ? | 21:21 |
| russellb | k, will see if he pops in :) | 21:21 |
| russellb | tjones: i saw a message on the -infra list about vmware CI, sounds like that's close? | 21:22 |
| mrodden | hi | 21:22 |
| russellb | mrodden: hi! | 21:22 |
| mrodden | i know last time there was discussion on what exactly the requirements were for CI | 21:22 |
| tjones | yep - the name we wanted to use (SmokeSignal) was denied. | 21:22 |
| russellb | tjones: heh | 21:22 |
| russellb | tjones: how about ... vmware CI | 21:22 |
| tjones | that's the last blocker ;-) so we are proposing vSmoker | 21:22 |
| russellb | mrodden: ok, so are you guys waiting on a clearer definition on that from me then? | 21:23 |
| mrodden | was there a ML post or wiki page that came out of that? | 21:23 |
| dansmith | mrodden: we decided a couple weeks ago that it is "running tempest" I think | 21:23 |
| russellb | mrodden: no post, just chatter in the meeting | 21:23 |
| mriedem | dansmith: but how scoped is running tempest | 21:23 |
| mrodden | yes.. but there are sets of tempest tests | 21:23 |
| russellb | running tempest though, effectively, is the goal | 21:23 |
| dansmith | mriedem: not disabling things that don't work :D | 21:23 |
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| mriedem | dansmith: well for example there are tests against APIs that aren't implemented, e.g. nova diagnostics | 21:23 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: which btw, we need to look at for the xenapi driver in smokestack (running tempest) | 21:23 |
| dansmith | mriedem: unless it's a fundamental thing the platform doesn't support, but then upstream tempest should be aware | 21:24 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: i think we really want to see the CI for all drivers running tempest | 21:24 |
| dansmith | mriedem: yep, so I think that's fair game to exclude | 21:24 |
| russellb | dansmith: mriedem agreed | 21:24 |
| mriedem | i can tell you that right now we're running 1152 tempest tests against powervm with db2 | 21:24 |
| dansmith | mriedem: maybe publish the tempest config you're using? | 21:24 |
| mriedem | so it's not peanuts | 21:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: yep, well looking for more normal based tempest running, outside of smokestack too | 21:24 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: great | 21:24 |
| dansmith | mriedem: for discussion/agreement | 21:25 |
| tjones | russellb: vmware CI…. catchy ;-) sure we can use that. will have +1 by next meeting, −1 maybe too. I don't know the exact # we are running but it is > 1000 | 21:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: totally agree that tempest is the right goal, not quite there yet, but there is hope yet | 21:25 |
| russellb | tjones: vSmoker is cool, too | 21:25 |
| russellb | tjones: 1000 nodes? | 21:25 |
| russellb | or 1000 tests? | 21:25 |
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| russellb | johnthetubaguy: *nods* | 21:25 |
| tjones | russellb: > 100 tests. not sure how many nodes. can find out the config | 21:25 |
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| tjones | s/100/1000/ | 21:26 |
| russellb | tjones: doesn't matter, was just clarifying | 21:26 |
| tjones | heh | 21:26 |
| russellb | tjones: as long as you keep up :-) | 21:26 |
| russellb | with the patch flow that is | 21:26 |
| mriedem | russellb: dansmith: i think we have a few open questions for powervm that we're still working through like which OS are we going to run on, how are we going to deploy openstack (rdo?), tempest tests, etc | 21:26 |
| mriedem | i really need to figure out what smokestack does | 21:26 |
| dansmith | mriedem: okay | 21:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | why not devstack + tempest as a starting point? | 21:27 |
| dansmith | mriedem: I think that smokestack builds packages and then installs them | 21:27 |
| russellb | yeah, using puppet | 21:27 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: question to me? | 21:27 |
| neelashah | dansmith: it builds packages on the fly? | 21:27 |
| dansmith | mriedem: johnthetubaguy yeah devstack would be good if it's doable | 21:27 |
| dansmith | neelashah: yeah | 21:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: yeah, its probably easier | 21:27 |
| jog0 | mriedem: *ideally* the answer to all those questions should be as close to what a user would do as possible. | 21:27 |
| mrodden | is the smokestack source available? | 21:27 |
| neelashah | is that available someplace to take a look or proprietary? | 21:27 |
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| mriedem | dansmith: johnthetubaguy: agreed on devstack | 21:28 |
| russellb | mrodden: yeah it's all open | 21:28 |
| russellb | smokestack.org is not what i wanted ... | 21:28 |
| mriedem | internally we're building packages too and running against rhel 6, naturally i felt like i had to duplicate that for CI but i don't think so | 21:28 |
| russellb | mrodden: https://smokestack.openstack.org/about | 21:28 |
| mrodden | russellb: cool | 21:28 |
| mriedem | i'd like to work db2 into this as a backend so we can kill 2 birds with one stone there, but that's probably more of a stretch at this point, although db2 is a plan for icehouse | 21:29 |
| dansmith | mriedem: well, being close to how users use your platform is a good plan for sure | 21:29 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: i.e. building packages in the same way you build your real ones | 21:30 |
| mriedem | dansmith: yeah, so i'm actually thinking fedora 19 + smokestack + db2 | 21:30 |
| mrodden | +1 | 21:30 |
| mriedem | but mysql would work too at first | 21:30 |
| dansmith | I'd rather you use db2 | 21:30 |
| dansmith | so I can laugh at you | 21:30 |
| mriedem | me too | 21:30 |
| dansmith | but either way | 21:30 |
| mrodden | lol | 21:30 |
| dripton | mriedem: wouldn't hurt to have both. That way you could tell your db2 problems from general problems. | 21:30 |
| mriedem | dripton: totally agree | 21:31 |
| dansmith | dripton: surely, but just more resources that way | 21:31 |
| mriedem | anyway, this is my thought process right now, we still have to tackle the scale issue | 21:31 |
| dansmith | dripton: I think these guys are using surplus Powermac G5s, so... | 21:31 |
| russellb | eep | 21:31 |
| dansmith | (just kidding) | 21:31 |
| dripton | so by the time smokestack finishes the patch is already approved | 21:31 |
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| dansmith | that's a good point | 21:31 |
| dansmith | russellb: we probably need in the guidelines a "a vote 48 hours later is not good enough" | 21:32 |
| neelashah | dansmith: actually, are there guidelines o nthat? | 21:32 |
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| neelashah | how long before the tests have to report back in? | 21:32 |
| dansmith | neelashah: we need some for sure | 21:32 |
| mrodden | thats something that i would like to see | 21:32 |
| neelashah | +1 | 21:32 |
| mrodden | we need to kind of figure out what we need to be shooting for | 21:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | smokestack is going to take longer if it starts doing tempest instead of torpedo, so there is some work there too I think | 21:32 |
| dansmith | neelashah: have you guys done any back of the envelope calculations to figure out how fast you'll be able to report? | 21:32 |
| dansmith | neelashah: assuming you have an idea on number of nodes you'll have, which maybe you don't... | 21:33 |
| neelashah | dansmith: we haven't yet - starting to put the hw/infrastructure plans so this will be good info to have to plan for | 21:33 |
| dansmith | neelashah: okay | 21:33 |
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| dansmith | russellb: anyway, we can probably work this in the background if you want to continue | 21:33 |
| mriedem | agreed | 21:34 |
| russellb | OK, well, good progress i think | 21:34 |
| russellb | and it's clear we need some details written up on the wiki | 21:34 |
| dansmith | yeah | 21:34 |
| russellb | what tests need to run | 21:34 |
| russellb | and some speed requirements | 21:34 |
| russellb | so i've got that on my todo | 21:34 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:34 | |
| russellb | beagles: you around? | 21:34 |
| russellb | last week you brought up your neutron vs nova-network doc | 21:35 |
| russellb | any updates on it? | 21:35 |
| russellb | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E9CiG8fmcn0FMI15zpE0dRQ1CcFhXV8TxL7mU7vgWv8/edit | 21:35 |
| russellb | i failed and didn't get you feedback this week ... sorry | 21:35 |
| beagles | hi guys | 21:35 |
| beagles | sorry | 21:35 |
| beagles | was interrupted | 21:35 |
| russellb | np! | 21:35 |
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| beagles | I'm still working on the tempest/testing section | 21:36 |
| beagles | along with a survey of current outstanding issues that are arguably related | 21:36 |
| jog0 | beagles: btw we have basic perforamnce testing and am working on getting it up on neutron | 21:36 |
| beagles | jog0: nice! | 21:37 |
| jog0 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50449/ | 21:37 |
| russellb | speaking of new gate jobs ... we need to get that cells job going | 21:37 |
| russellb | comstud: alaski ^ | 21:37 |
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| beagles | there was some chatter about getting me to Hong Kong to have a session amongst the Neutron crowd. | 21:38 |
| russellb | beagles: that would rock | 21:38 |
| beagles | I suspect that is not going to happen though | 21:38 |
| beagles | but you never know | 21:38 |
| russellb | beagles: i was about to ask, since you're going somewhere else far soon right? | 21:38 |
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| beagles | russellb, yes, Tel Aviv on Saturday for a week | 21:38 |
| russellb | safe travels :) | 21:38 |
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| russellb | well regarding the summit, i will at least try to do my part to catch up with neutron folks | 21:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: I know there are plans around fixing the cells job, I may help out too, depending on how stuff goes | 21:39 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: excellent | 21:39 |
| beagles | russellb, thks! | 21:39 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: i just want to get the bare minimum running and gating, and then we can expand from there | 21:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: cells issue is also getting all the features working, so it can be full tempest! | 21:39 |
| alaski | russellb: yeah. I can get a PR for that together | 21:39 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: just devstack exercises would be OK to start with, i think that's how it's configured now | 21:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: agreed, simple tests would be good first | 21:39 |
| russellb | alaski: not sure what a PR is, but OK! :-) | 21:39 |
| alaski | russellb: sorry, pull request, non gerrit terminology :| | 21:40 |
| dansmith | pull request? | 21:40 |
| russellb | ha | 21:40 |
| dansmith | heh | 21:40 |
| russellb | sorry. | 21:40 |
| comstud | i need to check experimental to see if the cells gate still passes | 21:40 |
| comstud | heh | 21:40 |
| comstud | but it does only run devstack exercises and should pass | 21:40 |
| * johnthetubaguy was wondering why we needed a press release | 21:41 | |
| russellb | if it's working, now that we're past the big freeze rush, should move it back to running on everything for a little bit, and then can switch to gating | 21:41 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: hm? | 21:41 |
| russellb | oh | 21:41 |
| russellb | gah i'm slow. | 21:41 |
| comstud | haha | 21:41 |
| russellb | alright, any other topics? | 21:42 |
| jog0 | In other news, as of a few minutes in the future(https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49853/) novaclient will be python33 compat | 21:42 |
| russellb | nice work on havana everyone, coming together nicely | 21:42 |
| dripton | woot! | 21:42 |
| russellb | jog0: nice! | 21:42 |
| jog0 | and gating will happen shortly after https://review.openstack.org/#/c/51058/1 | 21:42 |
| russellb | jog0: i need to do a novaclient release soon anyway, for the final havana bits | 21:43 |
| jog0 | also got the keystone token caching working again in novaclient | 21:43 |
| jog0 | so less round trips to keystone needed | 21:44 |
| russellb | good stuff | 21:44 |
| dansmith | jog0: now you're just bragging | 21:44 |
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| jog0 | dansmith: I stayed up late last night doing it ... so you cought me | 21:45 |
| dansmith | heh | 21:45 |
| russellb | well your work is very much appreciated :-) | 21:45 |
| russellb | i noticed our review turnaround averages are looking really good right now ... http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/nova-openreviews.html | 21:45 |
| russellb | so yay | 21:45 |
| russellb | not to say that some things haven't waited a long time ... but overall, better than we were doing toward the end of the cycle | 21:46 |
| russellb | perhaps not surprising, but yay anyway | 21:46 |
| russellb | ok, thanks everyone for your time! | 21:46 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 10 21:47:02 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-10-10-21.02.html | 21:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-10-10-21.02.txt | 21:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-10-10-21.02.log.html | 21:47 |
| comstud | ty | 21:47 |
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| jog0 | thank you | 21:47 |
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| beagles | 983104 | 21:49 |
| beagles | umm.. I need to move that yubikey | 21:49 |
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