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| Daisy | Hi, we are going to start the I18n meeting now. | 06:59 |
|---|---|---|
| ujuc | Hi! | 07:00 |
| Daisy | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 07:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 5 07:00:18 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 07:00 |
| Daisy | Hello, everyone. | 07:00 |
| Daisy | Who are there? | 07:00 |
| ujuc | Hi~ | 07:00 |
| Daisy | I see ujuc . Nice to meet you, ujuc! | 07:00 |
| ujuc | :) | 07:00 |
| jpich | Hello, Daisy | 07:01 |
| ujuc | :)) | 07:01 |
| * Fdot is here \o_ | 07:01 | |
| Daisy | Hi, jpich ! | 07:01 |
| Daisy | Hi, Fdot ! | 07:01 |
| ujuc | HI, jpich! | 07:01 |
| Fdot | Hello Daisy ! | 07:01 |
| Daisy | jpich is from Horizon team. Welcome ! | 07:01 |
| ujuc | Hi, Fdot :) z | 07:01 |
| Daisy | We haven't been talking for a long time. | 07:01 |
| Daisy | Three weeks passed. | 07:01 |
| Daisy | because last month had 5 Thursday. | 07:02 |
| Daisy | ok. Let's start. | 07:02 |
| Daisy | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 07:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:02 | |
| Daisy | we have only one action item last meeting. | 07:02 |
| Daisy | Daisy to continue to track the glossary and source language issue. | 07:02 |
| Daisy | It's done. I have reported the updates to you through emails. | 07:03 |
| Daisy | Fdot: all the glossaries have been imported. | 07:03 |
| Fdot | Daisy : That's a great news :) | 07:03 |
| Daisy | I did it by program, not manually. | 07:03 |
| Fdot | Thanks a lot :) | 07:03 |
| ujuc | Thanks~~~~ :), Fdot | 07:03 |
| Daisy | we will move to the major topic today. | 07:04 |
| Daisy | #topic Horizon I18n version release process | 07:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon I18n version release process (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:04 | |
| Daisy | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 07:04 |
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| Daisy | This is the release schedule of Havana. | 07:04 |
| Daisy | The translation and translation test progress need to match Havana release. | 07:04 |
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| Daisy | Since it's the first release after i18n team setting up, I don't want to cover a big scope and set up a big goal. | 07:05 |
| Daisy | So I will set our goal as "help to deliever high quality of internationalized Horizon in Havana.". | 07:05 |
| Daisy | We will not cover messages tranlation this time, because of two reasons: (1) user facing message and log message are not separated. (2) the team are not ready enough to do such a big workload of message translation and test. | 07:05 |
| Daisy | Horizion I18n will be the first project we make in OpenStack. | 07:06 |
| Daisy | Next release, we may cover user facing messages and a few more projects. | 07:06 |
| Daisy | agree ? | 07:06 |
| Daisy | comments ? | 07:06 |
| jpich | Sounds good to me :) | 07:07 |
| ujuc | agree~~ :) | 07:07 |
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| Daisy | Fdot ? | 07:07 |
| Fdot | agree | 07:07 |
| Fdot | :) | 07:07 |
| Daisy | thanks. | 07:07 |
| Daisy | Then let's discuss about the timelines. | 07:08 |
| Daisy | Sep 4 is the string frozen date. But I think we cannot assume 100% frozen. | 07:08 |
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| Daisy | So I will work together with Horizon team to update po files weekly till the end of release. | 07:08 |
| Daisy | jpich: your opinion? | 07:08 |
| jpich | Daisy: There are a few issues in the gates at the moment and patches are slow to merge, so I think the cut might be made later today when all approved patches are merged | 07:09 |
| Daisy | jpich: can Horizon team to make sure each patch that changes strings will run message generation scripts? | 07:09 |
| jpich | Daisy: We'll pay attention to it, yes | 07:09 |
| Daisy | thanks. | 07:09 |
| jpich | And avoid string changes unless they are really necessary | 07:09 |
| Daisy | Again, I will check the syncronization weekly. If I find not syncronized, I will upload patch. | 07:10 |
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| jpich | Daisy: I just remembered something, do you know if django_openstack_auth is on Transifex? | 07:10 |
| jpich | It contains the strings for the Horizon login page | 07:10 |
| Daisy | jpich: when will all approved patches being merged? | 07:10 |
| jpich | https://github.com/openstack/django_openstack_auth/blob/master/openstack_auth/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/django.po | 07:10 |
| Daisy | I don't see django_openstack_auth. | 07:11 |
| Daisy | Is it a separate project ? | 07:11 |
| jpich | Daisy: Hopefully today, it's unclear because a bug is slowing down the gate. I can let you know when it is completed | 07:11 |
| jpich | Yes, it is | 07:11 |
| Daisy | if so, we need to add this project. Is diango_openstack_auth being used by only Horizon? | 07:12 |
| jpich | Yes | 07:12 |
| Daisy | If it is only used by Horizon, can we add it to Horizon project ? | 07:12 |
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| jpich | That would make sense to me, yes | 07:12 |
| Daisy | we can add a new resource to Horizon project. | 07:12 |
| Daisy | good. | 07:12 |
| jpich | Great! Thanks | 07:12 |
| Daisy | Then the first to item: | 07:12 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to add diango_openstack_auth to Transifex. | 07:13 |
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| Daisy | ok. Let's continue. | 07:13 |
| Steff00 | hello | 07:13 |
| Daisy | Hello, Steff00 ! | 07:13 |
| Daisy | Fdot is there. | 07:13 |
| ujuc | Hi, Steff00! | 07:13 |
| Daisy | We are talking about the release plan of Horizon I18n now. | 07:14 |
| Daisy | Sep 26th is the first release candidate. There will be 3 release candiates till the formal release. I will do a translated strings downloading and merging back to code repository two days before each release candidate. That is Sep 24th, Nov 1nd and Nov 8th. | 07:14 |
| Daisy | How do you think about it, jpich ? | 07:14 |
| jpich | Daisy: I'm not sure about the November dates, the release will be on October 17th | 07:15 |
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| Daisy | right. | 07:15 |
| Daisy | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 07:15 |
| Daisy | Look at this table. | 07:16 |
| ujuc | Oct 1, Oot 8? | 07:16 |
| Daisy | I don't understand release manage clearly. I just see this table. | 07:16 |
| jpich | We can keep updating after the release of course (there will be a stable release one month after the release) | 07:16 |
| jpich | Daisy: The release candidates will be made over 3 weeks, from the 26th to 17th at the latest. There will be a RC1 for sure, but RC2 / RC3 will only happen if needed (e.g. serious bug fixes needed) | 07:17 |
| Daisy | Thanks for the information. very helpful. | 07:17 |
| Daisy | So we need a merge before RC1. | 07:17 |
| jpich | Agreed | 07:17 |
| Daisy | How can I know the exact RC1 date? | 07:18 |
| jpich | I would say Sept 26th based on the wiki | 07:18 |
| Daisy | OK. I will do a merge at Sep 24th. | 07:18 |
| Daisy | in order to leave enough time for the review and merge process. | 07:19 |
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| jpich | Makes sense | 07:19 |
| Daisy | In Sep 24, I will check the Transifex to see which langauges are ready to be merged. The languages who finish 100% translation and 100% review are ready to merge. | 07:19 |
| ujuc | OK~ | 07:20 |
| Daisy | so "100% translation and 100% review" are the conditions of merging into code repository. | 07:20 |
| Daisy | we need to have different people working as reviewer and translators, to ensure the quality. | 07:20 |
| Daisy | Before merge, I will send email to mailing list to ask for oppositions for merging these languages. If no oppositions, I will do the merge. | 07:20 |
| Daisy | Any comments? Any suggestions? Any oppositions? | 07:20 |
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| Daisy | Fdot and Steff00 : are you team have difficulties to finish the translation and review before Sep 24? | 07:21 |
| Daisy | only Horizon. | 07:21 |
| ujuc | yes~ | 07:21 |
| Daisy | ujuc: do you have difficulties ? | 07:22 |
| Fdot | Daisy I don't see any difficulties ;) | 07:22 |
| ujuc | no~ | 07:22 |
| ujuc | no~ | 07:22 |
| Fdot | For translation it is going to be fine | 07:22 |
| Fdot | maybe the review will take more time ;Ã | 07:22 |
| Fdot | ;) | 07:22 |
| Daisy | thanks. Only horizon is not a big workload, I think. I see many languages have reach 70%. | 07:22 |
| Daisy | I also want to do the translation test. The goal of translation test is to verify if the strings in UI are correctly displayed and translated. | 07:23 |
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| Daisy | Of course, we want test in all langauges environment, but we may not have so many resources. | 07:23 |
| Daisy | So we need pick out at least two languages and do the test. If horizon in these two langauges runs well, we can assume it's ok for other languages. | 07:23 |
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| Daisy | The translation test should be done several days before the first release candidate, in order to get enough time to fix bugs if we find important bugs while testing. | 07:24 |
| Daisy | So I will set the target date to finish the test by Sep 20th. | 07:24 |
| Daisy | I can raise my hand to offer Horizon test in Chinese. Can I get another volunteer to do the test? | 07:24 |
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| Daisy | no ? | 07:25 |
| jpich | Maybe people can ask their teams if someone is interested in doing it | 07:25 |
| Daisy | I can publish this question to mail list to see if I can get another tester. | 07:26 |
| Fdot | Agree \o_ :) | 07:26 |
| Daisy | :)) | 07:26 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to get another tester for Horizon I18n. | 07:26 |
| Fdot | I am not sure but in Cloudwatt team we probably have someone who will be able to do it in French | 07:26 |
| Fdot | I will forward him your e-mail ;) | 07:26 |
| Fdot | it will be easier | 07:27 |
| Daisy | thanks, Fdot . | 07:27 |
| Daisy | I have expressed all my thoughts about horizon I18n release plan. | 07:27 |
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| Daisy | any questions? comments? | 07:27 |
| Fdot | #action Fdot is going to see with the Cloudwatt horizon team if they can help on testing the french translation with Daisy | 07:28 |
| Daisy | Thanks, Fdot . | 07:28 |
| Fdot | Daisy just one question about the glossary | 07:28 |
| Daisy | jpich: do you have any concerns? | 07:28 |
| Fdot | is it possible to add the french language | 07:28 |
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| Daisy | yes, it is. | 07:28 |
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| jpich | Daisy: Nope, that sounds great, thanks! I'd also like to mention from my experience last release, we're flexible enough with RCs so if people find a serious translation bug after RC1 we can fix it and do a RC2 | 07:29 |
| Fdot | so we will be able to upstream what we have already translate with steff00 | 07:29 |
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| Fdot | I don't see it :( | 07:29 |
| Daisy | Fdot: you can go to a certain project, for example, Horizon, click on the "view glossary", and select your language. Then you can define the translation of glossary in your own language. | 07:29 |
| * Fdot is testing :) | 07:29 | |
| Daisy | thanks for your information, jpich . | 07:30 |
| Daisy | It's my first time to experience OpenStack release. | 07:30 |
| jpich | It'll be fun :-) | 07:30 |
| ujuc | ;) | 07:30 |
| Daisy | sure it will. | 07:30 |
| Daisy | then we move to next topic. | 07:31 |
| Daisy | #topic Translated document publish process | 07:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Translated document publish process (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:31 | |
| Daisy | The job to build Ja ops is in the Jenkins, although it haven't run successfully. | 07:31 |
| Daisy | https://jenkins.openstack.org/view/Openstack-manuals/job/openstack-operations-guide-ja/ | 07:31 |
| Daisy | But I don't know the progress with website patch. | 07:32 |
| Daisy | Akihiro is working on it. But I guess, he should be very busy recently. | 07:33 |
| Daisy | so I will track the progress offline by email. | 07:33 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to track the progress of ja document website. | 07:33 |
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| Daisy | http://summit.openstack.org/ | 07:34 |
| Daisy | Anne Gentle registerred a proposal here to discuss about the translated document publish process. | 07:34 |
| Daisy | who will attend the summit in HongKong this time? | 07:35 |
| Fdot | Daisy unfortunatly not me :( | 07:35 |
| Daisy | sorry to hear that. | 07:35 |
| Fdot | Too many works | 07:36 |
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| Daisy | Fdot: are there any people from French translation team will join the summit? | 07:36 |
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| ujuc | not me..... :( | 07:36 |
| jpich | I'll be attending | 07:36 |
| Fdot | Daisy : there will be some people from Cloudwatt which are helping me on the translation | 07:37 |
| Daisy | good, jpich. We can meet there then. | 07:37 |
| Fdot | so they will be in charge to represent me ;) | 07:37 |
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| Daisy | Great, Fdot. I'm sure there will be some sessions related with I18n. | 07:37 |
| Daisy | I hope to see some people there. | 07:37 |
| ujuc | ^_^ b | 07:37 |
| uvirtbot | ujuc: Error: "_^" is not a valid command. | 07:37 |
| ujuc | (^_^) b | 07:38 |
| Daisy | ok. I think I have finished the things I want to address. | 07:38 |
| Daisy | #topic Open discussion | 07:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:38 | |
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| Fdot | Daisy Just test the glossary | 07:39 |
| Daisy | does it work? | 07:39 |
| Fdot | It rocks ! \o/ | 07:39 |
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| Fdot | Thanks a lot | 07:39 |
| Fdot | I have started to upstream what we have already done | 07:39 |
| Daisy | Great ! | 07:39 |
| Fdot | It is going to be very helpfull for our team | 07:40 |
| Daisy | Maybe I can provide you the cvs file, you update the cvs file, and I can try to upload. | 07:40 |
| Daisy | That will be easier for you. | 07:40 |
| Daisy | Is it helpful ? | 07:40 |
| Fdot | Oh yes ! It could be very nice | 07:40 |
| Fdot | and quicker :) | 07:40 |
| Daisy | good. Then we do it offline. | 07:40 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to send the cvs file to Fdot | 07:41 |
| Fdot | Thanks a lot :) | 07:41 |
| Daisy | welcome ! I'd like to do anything I can help. | 07:41 |
| Daisy | anything else ? | 07:41 |
| Daisy | no ? | 07:41 |
| Fdot | Ok for me :) | 07:42 |
| Daisy | then I will close the meeting and you can go back to your busy work. :)) | 07:42 |
| ujuc | :) | 07:42 |
| Daisy | Thank you all for attending. | 07:42 |
| jpich | Thanks | 07:42 |
| Daisy | we will touch offline. | 07:42 |
| Daisy | #endmeeting | 07:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 5 07:42:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-09-05-07.00.html | 07:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-09-05-07.00.txt | 07:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-09-05-07.00.log.html | 07:42 |
| Fdot | Have a good day all :) | 07:44 |
| ujuc | :) | 07:44 |
| Fdot | Talk to you soon ! | 07:44 |
| ujuc | Have a good day~ :) | 07:44 |
| ujuc | :)) | 07:44 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 5 15:00:44 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| thomasm | o/ | 15:00 |
| dragondm | o/ | 15:00 |
| terriyu | o/ | 15:00 |
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| eglynn | o/ | 15:01 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 15:01 |
| nealph | o/ | 15:01 |
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| gordc | o/ | 15:01 |
| sileht | o/ | 15:01 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 15:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 15:02 |
| jd__ | #topic Review Havana-3 milestone | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-3 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:02 | |
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| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-3 | 15:02 |
| jd__ | if you followed the crazyness these last hours, so havana-3 is going to be out RSN | 15:02 |
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| jd__ | the milestone-proposed branch has been cut | 15:03 |
| jd__ | all blueprints not completed that missed the deadline have been rescheduled for Icehouse | 15:03 |
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| jd__ | in this great wisdom ttx granted use some FFE for the ongoing work for alarm-service-paritioner and alarming-logical-combination | 15:04 |
| eglynn | possible to get a FFE for any of those? | 15:04 |
| eglynn | yay! | 15:04 |
| jd__ | s/use/us/ | 15:04 |
| jd__ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/havana | 15:04 |
| sandywalsh | what about the branches still under active review? | 15:05 |
| jd__ | quite a good score I'd say anyway | 15:05 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: that'll go in master, which is now Icehouse | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | jd__: good negotiating! | 15:05 |
| sandywalsh | k | 15:05 |
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| thomasm | jd__, What's the timeline for the bug fixes? | 15:06 |
| ttx | jd__: s/great/infinite/ please | 15:06 |
| jd__ | :-) | 15:07 |
| jd__ | thomasm: if we want to get bugfixes in for H3 we have less than 24 hours I guess | 15:07 |
| jd__ | the rest will be for RC1 | 15:07 |
| thomasm | jd__, Good to know. Thanks. After this meeting I'll be putting up another review. | 15:07 |
| russellb | jd__: btw, i don't think master is icehouse now, right? | 15:07 |
| jd__ | russellb: what is it? | 15:08 |
| russellb | jd__: the current branching was just for a short term branch for havana-3, master is still havana | 15:08 |
| russellb | until a stable/havana is cut around RC time | 15:08 |
| russellb | ttx: ^ ? | 15:08 |
| sandywalsh | that would make sense | 15:08 |
| russellb | or at least that's how nova works ... assumed they were all the same model | 15:08 |
| ttx | It's still very much havana | 15:09 |
| jd__ | ok so we have to hold patches for weeks until rc1? | 15:09 |
| ttx | at this point, the idea is to come up with a definitive list of release blockers | 15:09 |
| ttx | fix them all | 15:09 |
| sandywalsh | so, no approvals on non-ffe branches | 15:09 |
| russellb | jd__: yeah, and focus on bugs only | 15:09 |
| ttx | then you cut your RC1 | 15:09 |
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| jd__ | russellb: ah I wish I could order people what to focus on ;) | 15:09 |
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| ttx | jd__: that can be tomorrow, if you're bug-free | 15:09 |
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| jd__ | ok | 15:09 |
| russellb | ttx: ah good point | 15:09 |
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| ttx | when we have an RC1, icehouse opens | 15:10 |
| russellb | jd__: heh, no, but you can block the stuff they really want to work on and annoy them | 15:10 |
| ttx | jd__: and if new bugs are uncovered we do a RC2 with backported fixes | 15:10 |
| ttx | jd__: it's also to simplify not having to backport | 15:10 |
| jd__ | ttx: yeah I thought we'd do that right on milestone-proposed actually | 15:10 |
| ttx | until you are done with the largest chunck of bugs | 15:10 |
| ttx | no, the milestone-proposed branch we have now is just for havana-3 | 15:11 |
| jd__ | k | 15:11 |
| ttx | the "real" release branch will be cut just before rC1 | 15:11 |
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| jd__ | I'm just thinking about putting -2 on all patches basically now | 15:11 |
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| ttx | jd__: others do that | 15:11 |
| russellb | jd__: that's what i did this morning | 15:11 |
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| jd__ | yeah makes sense, though that seems like a heavy burden especially for nova | 15:12 |
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| jd__ | well I'll do that then | 15:12 |
| jd__ | not the right time to debate around this anyway :) | 15:12 |
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| russellb | yeah ... and i'll rely on the patch authors to chase me down to take the -2 off later | 15:12 |
| ttx | jd__: if there is a specific feature you want to work on and start landing... we can always do a feature branch. But that's a bit heavy for two weeks | 15:12 |
| jd__ | ttx: yeah, we won't do that I guess :) | 15:12 |
| jd__ | questions anyone? | 15:13 |
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| ttx | jd__: so at this point you should rather come up with an RC1 buglist | 15:13 |
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| ttx | and spread the load around | 15:13 |
| eglynn | so for a patch that's currently merging as we speak | 15:13 |
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| eglynn | should I backport to milestone-proposed? | 15:13 |
| ttx | eglynn: only if it's milestone-critical | 15:13 |
| eglynn | ttx: k | 15:14 |
| ttx | otherwise just let it live in master | 15:14 |
| eglynn | (it's not, so I will ...) | 15:14 |
| ttx | it will be included in RC1 | 15:14 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:14 |
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| jd__ | #topic State of DB2 driver | 15:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "State of DB2 driver (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:15 | |
| jd__ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1208547 | 15:15 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1208547 in ceilometer "resource metadata not reflecting actual state of resource" [Medium,In progress] | 15:15 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: do you want to introduce this topic? | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | we had some issues with the way the drivers were returning resource metadata | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | thomasm was working on the fix, but didn't know quite what to do with the db2 driver | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | the proposed solution was to raise NotImplementedError in get_resources() to indicate that the results were wrong | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | I objected, on the grounds that it made the driver entirely unusable | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | we discussed it on IRC for a bit, but I don't think we resolved it, and that's why we wanted to talk about it with the rest of the group | 15:17 |
| thomasm | litong submitted a fix for it | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | thomasm: did anything happen on that after our chat? | 15:18 |
| thomasm | and it's passing the tests | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | ok, good | 15:18 |
| thomasm | yep | 15:18 |
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| dhellmann | so the bigger question, then, is what to do for these cases in the future | 15:18 |
| thomasm | He said it works for both the mongo test backend and DB2 | 15:18 |
| dragondm | Crisis averted :> | 15:18 |
| sileht | dhellmann, db2 have some exception in test too: https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/blob/master/tests/storage/test_storage_scenarios.py#L210 | 15:18 |
| thomasm | dragondm, yep! | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | my opinion is it's better to document a bug than to completely break a driver | 15:18 |
| gordc | dhellmann: yep, litong is actively looking at any db2 bug that comes up. | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | and of course fix them :-) | 15:19 |
| litong | @dhellmann, yeah. | 15:19 |
| gordc | dhellmann: agreed. | 15:19 |
| thomasm | The biggest problem I saw was communication. | 15:19 |
| thomasm | I misquoted litong because I misunderstood what he was trying to tell me. | 15:19 |
| thomasm | litong, and that caused us to make a decision that we otherwise probably wouldn't have made. | 15:20 |
| litong | Thomas and I had a phone conversation and the issue was resolved. | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | thomasm: was that regarding the "we're not sure if db2 can do this" statement? | 15:20 |
| thomasm | correct | 15:20 |
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| dhellmann | ok, well, it's good that's resolved :-) | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | I like using NotImplementedError for specific sub-cases, like group by or filter queries that are just not implemented yet | 15:21 |
| thomasm | When litong had stated that we can't do it, I thought he meant overall we couldn't with the current DB2 features. But what he meant was that we couldn't have aggregate function parity with the mongo driver. | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | that lets the caller know, some parts of this API don't work with the backend | 15:21 |
| litong | @dhellmann, doug, yeah, as long as we can understand each other, we can always find a solution. | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | but I don't like blocking off an entire API call | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | so I just wanted to see if the group felt otherwise, or if that's what we'll plan to do in the future? | 15:21 |
| eglynn | yep NotImplementedError should be resolved as an initial placeholder in some drivers for a new feature | 15:21 |
| litong | @dhellmann, totally agreed. | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: right, new features are a special case, too | 15:22 |
| eglynn | (not to disable an existing partially broken feature) | 15:22 |
| eglynn | yep | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | so new features, or sub-features of an API | 15:22 |
| sandywalsh | we could start thinking about versioning of db drivers | 15:22 |
| sileht | I guess we need something to explain limitation/feature implementation of each backend | 15:22 |
| dragondm | I'd suggest some way of marking a driver method that is semi-broken. | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: that's probably a good idea for a summit talk for icehouse | 15:22 |
| thomasm | dragondm had a great idea for experimental drivers | 15:22 |
| eglynn | s/resolved/reserved/ | 15:22 |
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| sandywalsh | dhellmann, are we writing down all these summit talk ideas? :) | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | sileht: I have handled that in the past by having the plugin implement a get_features() call that returns a set of enum values | 15:23 |
| gordc | a side question, since we have a bunch of backends now, i assume no one is an expert in all of them. should we have a place to find maintainers for backends? | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: not it | 15:23 |
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| thomasm | Where if we wanted to allow organic growth of an experimental driver in the master branch we'd need something to delineate between stable and not-so-stable drivers. | 15:23 |
| dragondm | gordc: yup | 15:23 |
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| jd__ | gordc: I was thinking about a MAINTAINERS file ala oslo | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | gordc: yes, definitely a good idea -- a file like -- exactly | 15:23 |
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| thomasm | gordc, +1 | 15:23 |
| sileht | +1 for MAINTAINERS file | 15:24 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, a Facet pattern works well there. Versioning would even be better | 15:24 |
| eglynn | would the maintainer be responsible for porting new features to their backend? | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | gordc, want to start that? | 15:24 |
| sandywalsh | maintainers +1 | 15:24 |
| llu-laptop | +1 for MAINTINERS file | 15:24 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: or at least helping with someone else who wanted to do the work | 15:24 |
| gordc | dhellmann: yeah i'll do that. i think it'll be helpful | 15:24 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: cool, that's fair | 15:24 |
| litong | @jd__, @gordc, for /storage directory. | 15:24 |
| sandywalsh | should there be a minimum number of maintainers on a feature? | 15:24 |
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| dhellmann | sandywalsh: versioning gets us part way, but doesn't let us inspect a given driver to see what it does. I'm not familiar with "Faceting" so I'll have to look that up | 15:24 |
| gordc | anyone want to be considered an expert and own a backend? :) | 15:24 |
| litong | for any other stuff? publisher, dispatchers? | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | #action gordc to create MAINTAINERS file for storage drivers | 15:25 |
| jd__ | nice play dhellmann | 15:25 |
| jd__ | :-D | 15:25 |
| thomasm | lol | 15:25 |
| sandywalsh | events | 15:25 |
| * dhellmann has learned much about delegation over the last 6 monghts | 15:25 | |
| sandywalsh | alarms | 15:25 |
| eglynn | alarms | 15:25 |
| eglynn | snap ;) | 15:25 |
| litong | oh, boy, | 15:25 |
| sandywalsh | (just listing things that need maintainers) | 15:25 |
| dragondm | dhellmann, sandywalsh: I'd suggest an '@experimental' decorator that can flag such. | 15:25 |
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| sandywalsh | trigger pipeline, meter pipeline | 15:26 |
| sandywalsh | http stack | 15:26 |
| gordc | sandywalsh: i'll add events to maintainers file and add your name. | 15:26 |
| jd__ | I think it's fair enough to ask the guys in MAINTAINERS to take a look at a patch and to implement/fix the code like litong did | 15:26 |
| sandywalsh | (or would that be oslo) | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | gordc: put me down for the API stack | 15:26 |
| gordc | dhellmann: will do | 15:26 |
| dragondm | I'll be happy to fix events stuff too. | 15:26 |
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| dhellmann | we can all add ourselves to the file, too, once gordc creates it | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | I think that wraps up that topic, jd__ | 15:27 |
| gordc | dragondm: done. | 15:27 |
| jd__ | ack | 15:27 |
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| jd__ | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 15:27 |
| eglynn | rely on a convention that the appropriate mantainer is always added as a reviewer on paches that touch their area? | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:27 | |
| eglynn | (but doesn't get a veto ...) | 15:27 |
| jd__ | eglynn: yes | 15:27 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:27 |
| jd__ | we need to release ceilometerclient as soon as https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45076/ gets merged | 15:28 |
| eglynn | the alarms s/counter_name/meter_name/ patch will need releasing soon | 15:28 |
| eglynn | yep | 15:28 |
| jd__ | I guess I'll do that :) | 15:28 |
| sandywalsh | I'd like to see ceilometer lead the way on a self-describing api (kind of like a richer-wsdl) so the client would auto-update. | 15:28 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: that'd be awesome | 15:28 |
| sandywalsh | the client could be completely data-driven | 15:28 |
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| eglynn | that would be cool | 15:29 |
| jd__ | maybe WSME can help us generating WSDL like specs | 15:29 |
| jd__ | s/maybe/verryyy likely/ | 15:29 |
| sandywalsh | yep | 15:29 |
| eglynn | avoid a lot of boilerplate patches to the client | 15:29 |
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| jd__ | sandywalsh: if guess that makes you up for creating a blueprint to work on that? ;-) | 15:29 |
| dragondm | Data driven client would be nice. | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | how would a consumer of the client code know what the API is? | 15:29 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, np | 15:29 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, autogenerated docs | 15:30 |
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| dragondm | (saying 'wsdl' brings back bad memories.. :P) | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | let's not re-invent soap | 15:30 |
| eglynn | LOL :) | 15:30 |
| jd__ | next, how do we autogenerate Ceilometer's code from our brains? | 15:30 |
| sandywalsh | wsdl won't do it, there are alternatives | 15:30 |
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| dhellmann | jd__: I have a brain-compute interface called "keyboard" that works pretty well | 15:30 |
| sileht | ahah | 15:31 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: I should try that, these punch cards really slow me down | 15:31 |
| sandywalsh | termie did some good work on this scheme in the early nova days | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | jd__: indeed | 15:31 |
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| sandywalsh | bourbon-driven development | 15:32 |
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| jd__ | hmmm | 15:32 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:33 | |
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| * terriyu is looking forward to getting some sleep after havana-3 | 15:34 | |
| dhellmann | :-) | 15:35 |
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| jd__ | so calm | 15:37 |
| jd__ | I'm almost done -2'ing everything in the queue while you're chatting | 15:37 |
| jd__ | while I'm at it | 15:37 |
| thomasm | fun fun | 15:37 |
| terriyu | btw guys, I got a travel grant to go to the Hong Kong Summit!! | 15:37 |
| jd__ | congrats terriyu :) | 15:38 |
| eglynn | terriyu: nice work! | 15:38 |
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| terriyu | I'll get to meet you and hear your voices, instead of imagining them over IRC :) | 15:38 |
| jd__ | not sure it's a win? ;) | 15:38 |
| llu-laptop | jd__: when will the master be available for accpeting patches again? | 15:38 |
| jd__ | btw I'm going to continue working on better and more gate jobs; devstack should run now (or in a few hours) on all patches | 15:38 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: after rc1 | 15:38 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: if I got things right :)) | 15:39 |
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| jd__ | I don't want to interrupt but I'll close the meeting in a minute | 15:41 |
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| jd__ | #endmeeting | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 5 15:42:27 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-09-05-15.00.html | 15:42 |
| jd__ | have fun guys | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-09-05-15.00.txt | 15:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-09-05-15.00.log.html | 15:42 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 5 20:00:25 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management' | 20:00 |
| harlowja | howday! | 20:00 |
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| melnikov | hi there | 20:00 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | so might be pretty short if its just us :-P | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 20:03 |
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| harlowja | oks then, ha | 20:04 |
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| harlowja | i guess the big thing this week is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45139/ | 20:04 |
| harlowja | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45139/ | 20:04 |
| harlowja | and working on adjusting taskflow to the engine concept | 20:04 |
| harlowja | aka unification of engines into taskflow (and vice-versa) | 20:05 |
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| changbl | Hi folks | 20:05 |
| harlowja | howdy | 20:05 |
| melnikov | hi | 20:05 |
| changbl | so many commits from you | 20:05 |
| changbl | good progress:) | 20:05 |
| adrian_otto | hi | 20:05 |
| changbl | i just do not have much time to review them... quite a hectic week | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | its ok :) | 20:06 |
| harlowja | hi adalbas | 20:06 |
| harlowja | *oops | 20:06 |
| harlowja | hi adrian_otto | 20:06 |
| harlowja | so 45139 is the other big one this week, it does yes break a little stuff, but i think its just a pain we have to get over, one thats worth just doing | 20:07 |
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| melnikov | +1 for 45139 | 20:07 |
| adalbas | :) | 20:08 |
| harlowja | melnikov after that goes in i think u mentioned that anastasia is working on fixing up the graph 'flow'', i assume that doesn't mean she would be doing the engine 'threaded graph action equivalent' | 20:09 |
| harlowja | so maybe i can do that up | 20:09 |
| harlowja | and melnikov after 45139 we can see about resumption, i think u were getting started on that right? | 20:09 |
| melnikov | yeah that's right | 20:10 |
| adrian_otto | harlowja: there is a grammar error in the description of 45139. Can that be edited, or are you stuck with it? | 20:10 |
| harlowja | never stuck | 20:11 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:11 |
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| adrian_otto | "flows with there".. I think you meant "flows with their" | 20:11 |
| harlowja | hmmm, sounds good to me, i always forget the diff between there/their :-P | 20:11 |
| harlowja | hey i just write code, hahaha | 20:12 |
| adrian_otto | yeah, "there" is a place you can point at | 20:12 |
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| harlowja | :) thx | 20:12 |
| adrian_otto | Can you elaborate on "Threaded flow and graph flow are broken by this commit, so we | 20:12 |
| adrian_otto | temporarily disable their tests." | 20:12 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:13 |
| harlowja | in the review or here? | 20:13 |
| harlowja | or both? | 20:13 |
| adrian_otto | does that mean that you are intentionally introducing a code regression? | 20:13 |
| adrian_otto | I suppose start here, and if needed we can place it in the review | 20:13 |
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| hodos | so...I was implementing flow for volume backups...should I wait now until action_engine stuff is done ? | 20:15 |
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| harlowja | so engines are a major restructuring is what i would call it, one that inverts how flows work (for the better imho) so since gerrit doesn't have the concept of a feature branch and since taskflow is still pretty new i think its worth the effort to break taskflow for a short period until we have engines fully integrated | 20:17 |
| harlowja | yes i know thats controversial, but i think its a needed change to get this goign in the right direction | 20:18 |
| harlowja | hodos if u are using the cinder code, cinder already has a copy of taskflow that should work for your need, when cinder pulls in the newer taskflow with action_engine via running taskflow update.py then it will need to alter the flows there, but i don't think the alteration will be to painful | 20:19 |
| adrian_otto | ok, sorry I missed where this came from. Can we back up a bit, and restate the original problem? | 20:19 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:19 |
| harlowja | so flows now have a lot of concept of how they run inside there module, so for example linear_flow knows how to run itself | 20:20 |
| harlowja | this means its not really easily possible to seperate the running from the structure | 20:20 |
| harlowja | which creates a problem for nesting of flows and running the different structures via different mechanisms | 20:20 |
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| harlowja | so engines/blocks were created to be this thing that 'runs' and the existing flows would just define structure | 20:21 |
| adrian_otto | is the problem that the concept of a flow is not abstracted enough from the patterns? Meaning a flow has different usage or features depending on which pattern is used? | 20:21 |
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| harlowja | i think the problem was that flows were running themselves instead of asking something else to run it (an engine) | 20:22 |
| adrian_otto | ok, why is that bad? | 20:22 |
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| adrian_otto | please understand I'm not arguing the point, I'm just seeking clarity | 20:23 |
| harlowja | np | 20:23 |
| harlowja | so there was alot of repeated work that flows were having, that is duplicated when flows know how to run themselves, state management for example | 20:24 |
| harlowja | and that means each flow, would need to have the logic to do that | 20:24 |
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| harlowja | instead if flows just define structure, they can let the thing running the flows (engine) centralize all that duplication | 20:25 |
| adrian_otto | ok, I can see how that's inefficient compared to the engine approach, and causes more maintenance, and probably complexity. | 20:25 |
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| harlowja | ya, so melnikov has been helping lead the changes to do that | 20:25 |
| adrian_otto | so, in other words engines are a place to centralize the state management, and simplify flows. | 20:26 |
| harlowja | correct | 20:26 |
| adrian_otto | ok, I think I got it now, thanks. | 20:26 |
| adrian_otto | maybe we could add that in to the commit description as well, to help others grok it a bit more easily. | 20:26 |
| harlowja | np so that review is bringing all the picture together, except it was getting bigger due to the changes, and since there isn't a shared feature branch concept i thought it would be good to get that out there and in, so that melnikov and anastasia can continue on the path of fixing the other 2 broken flows | 20:27 |
| harlowja | sure adrian_otto | 20:27 |
| harlowja | so it might be broken for a few more days, but the break i think will make things simpler due the above :) | 20:27 |
| harlowja | the basic though will work, so hodos u should be able to use the linear_flow and engines right now | 20:28 |
| adrian_otto | it might also be worth documenting (somewhere) the intent around what's broken by this approach, and the plan for how it gets fixed. | 20:28 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:28 |
| harlowja | sounds good | 20:28 |
| hodos | yes, i figured that's fine, thanks | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | you already mentioned the two patterns that need test bypass, but we are missing a statement of intent about how that will be solved. | 20:29 |
| harlowja | yup yup, will add that adrian_otto | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | tx | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | ok, was going to see about jessica doing a distributed engine instead of 'distributed flow' (reworking that code she is already working on) but will talk with her off-meeting | 20:31 |
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| harlowja | hodos do u want to chat about your work, be interesting to hear | 20:31 |
| harlowja | #topic new-use-cases | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new-use-cases (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:32 | |
| harlowja | is it for cinder? or is this the rashka (sp?) project | 20:32 |
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| harlowja | oh, before i forget | 20:33 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja update comment per adrian_otto comments | 20:33 |
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| hodos | i'm just in a state where I'm trying to work off the create_volume flow and make something similar with volume_backup | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | #action harlowja make bugs/blueprints to ensure intent/fixes are noted | 20:33 |
| hodos | i'm just in a state where I'm trying to work off the create_volume flow and make something similar with create_backup | 20:33 |
| hodos | cinder, yup | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | cool | 20:34 |
| harlowja | is that one pretty straightfoward, if u get stuck with taskflow understanding def let us help :) | 20:35 |
| hodos | what I'm also trying to achieve is to be able to track activity performed by the flow | 20:35 |
| hodos | I'm wondering if a backup is performed appliance -- appliance without coping data through cinder | 20:36 |
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| hodos | is flow a good point where we can update DB to track the progress | 20:36 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:37 |
| harlowja | so there is a mechanism built-in to be notified of the activity a flow (or with the newer code a engine) is going through | 20:38 |
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| harlowja | those notification 'recievers' can be arbitary callbacks | 20:38 |
| harlowja | so u could have one callback be something that updates a db | 20:38 |
| harlowja | similar tracking is needed itself by taskflow for advanced features like resuming | 20:38 |
| hodos | ok | 20:39 |
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| harlowja | as far as the appliance -- appliance i'm not so sure there of the context | 20:39 |
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| harlowja | if its things that happen outside cinder (not via cinder) i'm not sure how u would track the activity there | 20:40 |
| hodos | well it should be addressed in the driver | 20:40 |
| hodos | it's vendor specific | 20:41 |
| vito-ordaz | do you have any plans for monitoring flow progress? | 20:41 |
| hodos | read up ^ | 20:41 |
| harlowja | vito-ordaz so i think taskflow should expose the mechansism to do notifications of flow progress, taskflow itself for resuming tasks will need to know the progress also | 20:42 |
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| harlowja | but the internal taskflow resuming mechanism doesn't have to be the same as the notifications being emitted, notifications i think are the best way to let people plug-in to what the engine/flow is doing | 20:43 |
| harlowja | the neat thing about having that mechanism is that we can easily add-in something like | 20:44 |
| harlowja | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/builtin-metric | 20:44 |
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| harlowja | which will make nice graphs/pictures/metrics of what tasks/flows are doing | 20:45 |
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| hodos | that looks good | 20:46 |
| hodos | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/backend-activity | 20:46 |
| kebray | sorry I'm late. | 20:47 |
| harlowja | intersting hodos | 20:47 |
| hodos | we can address this with taskflows I think | 20:47 |
| harlowja | hodos potentially, thats a big change :) | 20:47 |
| harlowja | *big change for cinder i think | 20:48 |
| harlowja | kebray howdy! | 20:48 |
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| harlowja | hodos very interesting | 20:49 |
| harlowja | i sorta imagine something like the following, cinder asks volume driver to give back 'flow' for given 'action', cinder maybe adds its own flows to that returned one, submits them all the taskflow engine | 20:49 |
| harlowja | *them all to taskflow engine | 20:49 |
| vito-ordaz | what you think about this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44362/ | 20:50 |
| harlowja | taskflow engine then can figure out how to suspend, resume (or other advanced thingy) | 20:50 |
| * kebray just caught up on the discussion on engines. | 20:51 | |
| vito-ordaz | all flow stored in db, and cinder provide API to get current state of each flow and also progress based on progress of each flow task | 20:51 |
| harlowja | vito-ordaz u might want to talk with melnikov about engines :) | 20:51 |
| harlowja | its looking very similar :) | 20:51 |
| * kebray still thinks that if you implement engines, the what's the point of flows? Let's just have tasks nest tasks, no need to have another abstraction with flows so that flows embed in flows. | 20:51 | |
| harlowja | flows define how your thing is desired to run | 20:52 |
| harlowja | not all of them will be flows within flows | 20:53 |
| harlowja | some parts of your flow u want to run in parallel, others not | 20:53 |
| harlowja | others u want there to be a strong dependency between tasks in the flow (graph) | 20:53 |
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| hodos | harlowja: yes that's how I thought about backend-activity as a nested flows | 20:53 |
| hodos | can't you always have a strict dependency via requires/updates | 20:54 |
| hodos | ? | 20:54 |
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| harlowja | hodos yes, that is possible | 20:56 |
| harlowja | but say we didn't have a linear flow, then we would require people to create artificial dependencies in requires/provides to make it run linearly | 20:56 |
| harlowja | which seems annoying/painful | 20:56 |
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| harlowja | in my view there would be the following 3 main flows | 20:57 |
| harlowja | linear, unordered (can be ran in any order, even in parallel), graph (can be ran in parallel as long as dependents run before) | 20:57 |
| harlowja | so a engine would know how to interpret those 3 root 'patterns' | 20:57 |
| harlowja | but u might not want your engine to run via threads, so u would pick the single threaded one that would know how to run those 3 root patterns, or u may run the single threaded engine in tests, then switch to a celery/distributed engine in production | 20:58 |
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| harlowja | thats my thoughts on why engines are good, they disconnect the root patterns from how they are ran, instead of previously having the root patterns be very aware of how to run themselves | 20:59 |
| harlowja | anyways, lets discuss more in #openstack-state-management if needed :) | 21:00 |
| harlowja | times up! :) | 21:00 |
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| harlowja | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 5 21:00:55 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-09-05-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-09-05-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-09-05-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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| russellb | hey everyone ... if you're here for the nova meeting that normally starts now, it's canceled for today: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/014684.html | 21:01 |
| russellb | Thanks! | 21:01 |
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| n0ano | fine, make me miss a meeting, see if I care :-) | 21:01 |
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