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| markmc | hey | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| dhellmann | hi | 14:00 |
| markmc | #startmeeting oslo | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Aug 16 14:00:44 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markmc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| oldben | \o | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 14:00 |
| flaperboon | \o/ | 14:00 |
| markmc | #topic hello everybody | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "hello everybody (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:00 | |
| dhellmann | o/ | 14:00 |
| flaperboon | yo yo | 14:01 |
| markmc | casual nick friday, eh? :) | 14:01 |
| flaperboon | :D | 14:01 |
| flaperboon | yeah | 14:01 |
| markmc | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/HavanaOsloMessaging | 14:01 |
| markmc | ok | 14:02 |
| markmc | I'm figuring on this for an agenda: | 14:02 |
| markmc | agenda: | 14:02 |
| markmc | oslo.messaging status | 14:02 |
| markmc | secure messaging | 14:02 |
| markmc | reject/requeue/ack etc. | 14:02 |
| markmc | anyone got anything else? | 14:02 |
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| * dhellmann shakes head | 14:03 | |
| flaperboon | markmc: ++ | 14:03 |
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| markmc | #topic oslo.messaging status | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "oslo.messaging status (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:03 | |
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| markmc | so, I'm a bit distracted hear because I'm nose deep in nova unit tests | 14:04 |
| markmc | started with like 10k failing, down to about 300 | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | nice | 14:04 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 14:04 |
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| markmc | feeling confident I'll finished them up today or over the weekend | 14:04 |
| markmc | no idea how whether more issues will turn up under devstack | 14:04 |
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| flaperboon | awesome. We said today was to go / no-go day for oslo.messaging | 14:05 |
| markmc | the tests so far have found a couple of bloopers in oslo.messaging, but seems pretty good so far | 14:05 |
| markmc | yeah | 14:05 |
| markmc | I'd like to be further along today | 14:05 |
| markmc | but the nova port is coming along so well, and nearly there ... | 14:05 |
| markmc | I'm still feeling like it's right to move forward with it | 14:05 |
| markmc | I figure it's best to just limit oslo.messaging to Nova for Havana, though | 14:06 |
| markmc | any thoughts? | 14:06 |
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| flaperboon | yeah, I agree with that! I actually blocked a Glance patch just waiting for oslo.messaging to land in Nova | 14:06 |
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| markmc | flaperboon, which patch was this? | 14:06 |
| flaperboon | I think it is fair to focus on the big brother first | 14:06 |
| flaperboon | lemme get that for you | 14:07 |
| markmc | cheers | 14:07 |
| sandywalsh | so long as the messages on the notification exchanges are the same as before, there should be no breakage | 14:07 |
| flaperboon | markmc: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37511/ | 14:07 |
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| jd__ | o/ | 14:07 |
| flaperboon | the patch pulls in oslo.rpc and my suggestion is to do neither 'til the Ith development starts | 14:07 |
| simo | o/ | 14:08 |
| flaperboon | jd__: simo o/ | 14:08 |
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| markmc | sandywalsh, yeah, there should be zero wire format changes | 14:08 |
| sandywalsh | cool | 14:08 |
| markmc | sandywalsh, the drivers themselves are pretty minimally modified | 14:08 |
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| markmc | I want to avoid refactoring them until we've got Nova moved over | 14:09 |
| markmc | don't want to be trying to debug regressions and being unsure whether it's the refactoring of the drivers, or the porting to the lib | 14:09 |
| flaperboon | markmc: should we move over other projects before starting any change? | 14:09 |
| jd__ | flaperboon: not sure it's a worth idea to block this for Havana seeing how little intrusive it is too glance | 14:09 |
| flaperboon | s/change/refactor/ | 14:09 |
| sandywalsh | makes sense. I think notifications are the only things that go cross-service, yes? | 14:09 |
| markmc | sandywalsh, yes | 14:10 |
| markmc | flaperboon, I'd be happy to start refactoring once Nova is moved over, think that's a big enough user | 14:10 |
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| markmc | flaperboon, but, might be best to leave it until Icehouse | 14:10 |
| flaperboon | markmc: agreed | 14:10 |
| markmc | if the oslo-incubator and oslo.messaging drivers are kept similar in Grizzly | 14:10 |
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| flaperboon | jd__: you reckon? My thought was to avoid duplicating work | 14:11 |
| markmc | that'll make fixing stuff anything that comes up hell of a lot easier | 14:11 |
| flaperboon | I mean, pulling in oslo.rpc and then migrating to oslo.messaging | 14:11 |
| flaperboon | I may have been too paranoid, though | 14:11 |
| jd__ | flaperboon: now that flwang wrote the patch… we'll update with oslo.messaging for Icehouse, IMHO it's still better to use Oslo's code than Glance's code for H :) | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | markmc: grizzly? | 14:11 |
| markmc | heh, sorry | 14:12 |
| markmc | Havana | 14:12 |
| markmc | brain is fried from nova's tests | 14:12 |
| dhellmann | :-) | 14:12 |
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| markmc | assuming the nova work goes ok over the next few days | 14:12 |
| markmc | the big risk is going to be finding nova-core folks to review it | 14:13 |
| flaperboon | jd__: right, I'll give it an extra thought afterwards, thanks for the advice! | 14:13 |
| markmc | large and tedious patch, breaking it up as much as I can | 14:13 |
| markmc | but it's still huge | 14:13 |
| jd__ | flaperboon: np :) | 14:13 |
| markmc | ok, seems we don't have much to talk about here | 14:13 |
| * markmc moves on | 14:13 | |
| markmc | #topic secure messaging | 14:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "secure messaging (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:13 | |
| markmc | simo, yo | 14:13 |
| markmc | simo, care to summarize the current state of affairs? | 14:14 |
| markmc | hmm | 14:15 |
| simo | markmc: yeah, unfortuantely work has been slowed down | 14:15 |
| simo | api review on Keystone side is going on | 14:15 |
| simo | there are some minor changes to the API that will need to be reflected in securemessage.py code | 14:15 |
| simo | thierry suggested that KDS not land in Havana though and we instead commit it when Icehouse is started | 14:16 |
| simo | given nova will probably not be able to use this stuff until IceHose anyway I guess that's reasonable at this point | 14:16 |
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| markmc | yeah, I'm tending to agree | 14:17 |
| markmc | we're close, but it's that 80/20 thing | 14:17 |
| simo | I have a few patches to add group jey support not merged in oslo yet, but I have been holding waiting for KDS review so we do not have to change them again aftr commit | 14:17 |
| markmc | I'd much rather see this land early in Icehouse and be in awesome shape come release time | 14:17 |
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| markmc | rather than include in Havana with a "it's there, but you can't really use it" caveat | 14:18 |
| simo | markmc: we tried and we got at least a poc we know works (wellI know it does at any rate, don;t think anybody else have tested) | 14:18 |
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| simo | markmc: ideally I keep patches up to date, and test and we land them as soon as Icehose opens | 14:18 |
| markmc | yeah | 14:18 |
| markmc | simo, assuming the oslo.messaging port of nova makes it | 14:18 |
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| simo | markmc: should we port them to oslo.messaging before landing them at this point ? | 14:18 |
| markmc | it probably makes sense to re-focus the work on oslo.messaging | 14:19 |
| simo | ok | 14:19 |
| markmc | but also wait until the icehouse branch of oslo.messaging opens | 14:19 |
| simo | then I'll ping you as soon as the nova work is done | 14:19 |
| markmc | cool | 14:19 |
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| simo | this is not that urgent that I need to distract you now | 14:19 |
| simo | I Can keep testing on the current base | 14:19 |
| simo | and have patches ready | 14:19 |
| markmc | thinking about the API implications, the main one will be to add a "source" name to RPCClient | 14:19 |
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| simo | then we simply 'translate' them into oslo.messaging | 14:20 |
| markmc | cool | 14:20 |
| simo | markmc: yes I looked into that and it was 'hard' | 14:20 |
| markmc | simo, why hard? | 14:20 |
| simo | in fact I was going to ask for leniency and wait until oslo.messaging to do that change | 14:20 |
| simo | markmc: lot's of changes required in callers :) | 14:20 |
| simo | outside of oslo-incubator I mean | 14:20 |
| markmc | oh, you're talking about having to add the source name to all cast()/call()s | 14:20 |
| simo | yup | 14:21 |
| markmc | right, it's all changed in oslo.messaging | 14:21 |
| simo | yep so it is better if we do that in the context of oslo.messaging given major changes to users of the rpc code already happen there | 14:21 |
| markmc | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.messaging/rpcclient.html | 14:21 |
| markmc | self._client = messaging.RPCClient(transport, target) | 14:21 |
| markmc | self._client.call(ctxt, 'test', arg=arg) | 14:21 |
| markmc | you'll want to add a 'source' arg to messaging.RPCClient() I think | 14:22 |
| markmc | confusingly, the type of 'source' would be messaging.Target | 14:22 |
| simo | markmc would it make sense to split topic in topic, host there ? | 14:22 |
| markmc | yes | 14:22 |
| markmc | source = messaging.Target(topic='compute', server='myhost') | 14:22 |
| simo | ah target is already a tuple ? | 14:23 |
| markmc | the Target data structure contains exchange, namespace, version, topic, server, fanout | 14:23 |
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| markmc | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.messaging/target.html | 14:23 |
| markmc | so, yeah | 14:23 |
| simo | ok | 14:23 |
| markmc | we're keeping topic and server separate already | 14:23 |
| simo | from the example I didn't realize it: | 14:23 |
| simo | target = messaging.Target(topic='testtopic', version='2.0') | 14:23 |
| simo | see no 'host' part in here :) | 14:23 |
| markmc | right, you typically do it this way | 14:24 |
| simo | anyway | 14:24 |
| simo | no need to go in specifics here | 14:24 |
| markmc | self._client = messaging.RPCClient(transport, Target(topic='compute')) | 14:24 |
| markmc | cctxt = self._client.prepare(server='myhost') | 14:24 |
| simo | I think we agree to move to have the rest land in Icehouse immediately after oslo.messaging goes in | 14:24 |
| markmc | cctxt.cast(...) | 14:24 |
| markmc | great, sounds good | 14:25 |
| markmc | it was always a big ask to get this into havana | 14:25 |
| markmc | onwards to icehouse :) | 14:25 |
| simo | yup | 14:25 |
| simo | no problem | 14:25 |
| * markmc moves onto the next topic | 14:25 | |
| markmc | #topic reject/requeue/ack etc. | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reject/requeue/ack etc. (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:25 | |
| markmc | sandywalsh, you're up :) | 14:25 |
| sandywalsh | :) where to start ... | 14:25 |
| markmc | sandywalsh, from the vagueness of the topic, you can see I'm not totally following this yet | 14:25 |
| * markmc is being a slacker | 14:25 | |
| sandywalsh | so, in nova we're currently using queuing systems in two ways | 14:26 |
| sandywalsh | 1. api -> scheduler = classic queueing. N producers, M consumers | 14:26 |
| sandywalsh | 2. scheduler -> compute = "rpc" 1:1 | 14:26 |
| sandywalsh | and 3. notifications = classic queueing | 14:26 |
| sandywalsh | for classic queueing, we need reliability | 14:26 |
| sandywalsh | ack/requeue/reject | 14:27 |
| sandywalsh | focusing on rpc-only, we don't need that | 14:27 |
| sandywalsh | but for things like billing events (which we can't drop and the reason notification support was added) ... we need reliability | 14:27 |
| sandywalsh | :) not sure what to add | 14:28 |
| markmc | interesting, you see a need for that reliability for #1 too | 14:28 |
| sandywalsh | yes, definitely | 14:28 |
| markmc | (not disagreeing, just interesting we've had it so long without it) | 14:28 |
| sandywalsh | and orchestration/state management will need it too | 14:29 |
| sandywalsh | I think the current proposal is very low risk in the short term. | 14:29 |
| jd__ | indeed, I think it makes sense in lots more topic than we might think initially | 14:29 |
| markmc | I'd be very hesitant to change the behaviour of #1 in havana | 14:29 |
| markmc | makes total sense to me for #3 | 14:29 |
| jd__ | markmc: that'd be a difference between "works most of the time" and "work reliably" ;) | 14:29 |
| sandywalsh | markmc, agreed ... we've hacked around it in the past by putting "retry" code in every service | 14:30 |
| sandywalsh | so, unwinding that now would be risky | 14:30 |
| markmc | I'm not sure how we expose the semantics in oslo.messaging, but I'm not really concerned | 14:30 |
| markmc | we'll figure it out | 14:30 |
| flaperboon | mmh, perhaps we could revert this commit: https://github.com/openstack/oslo.messaging/commit/84a0693737814665f7b0eb2f42fd9ec99bdb80d5 | 14:30 |
| sandywalsh | at the very least, in message, we should make the message part of the api | 14:30 |
| markmc | API flags per rpc server, transport specific flags, user config | 14:31 |
| markmc | some combination of those, we'll see | 14:31 |
| sandywalsh | and put ack/reject/requeue methods on it | 14:31 |
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| sandywalsh | the particular implementations can handle accordingly | 14:31 |
| markmc | nah, messages aren't explicitly part of the API | 14:31 |
| markmc | i.e. for RPC it's client.cast('mymethod', **mywargs) | 14:32 |
| markmc | and on the server side, it's gets dispatched to an endpoint method called mymethod | 14:32 |
| markmc | so there's no message handle | 14:32 |
| sandywalsh | right, for notifications it makes more sense | 14:32 |
| markmc | I actually think this behaviour (for rpc) is something you'd configure per server | 14:32 |
| sandywalsh | and delivery_info metadata is handy for N:M communications | 14:32 |
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| markmc | e.g. server = messaging.RPCServer(reject_on_error=True) | 14:33 |
| markmc | or whatever | 14:33 |
| sandywalsh | I think my current branch does it pretty well ... it's very specific to join_consumer_pool(..., ack_on_error=False) as the only way to enable those operations. | 14:33 |
| markmc | I wonder is there anything interesting on the RPCClient side | 14:33 |
| markmc | RPCClient(server_shouldnt_drop_messages=True) | 14:34 |
| sandywalsh | reject ... the consumer has to throw RejectMessageException() to tell the rpc layer to reject the message. | 14:34 |
| sandywalsh | this is kind of klunky | 14:34 |
| sandywalsh | but since Message isn't a first-class citizen there's not many other ways | 14:34 |
| markmc | well | 14:35 |
| markmc | the notification client's API | 14:35 |
| markmc | surely, when you dispatch a notification | 14:35 |
| markmc | any exceptions raised by it should cause the message to be rejected? | 14:35 |
| markmc | is RejectMessageException() just an implementation detail? | 14:35 |
| sandywalsh | no, they should requeue() by default | 14:36 |
| sandywalsh | and let another worker pick it up | 14:36 |
| markmc | oh, ok | 14:36 |
| markmc | sorry | 14:36 |
| markmc | explain the use case for reject() ? | 14:36 |
| flaperboon | mmh, sounds more like a target thing to me, which is what the Driver and Listener get | 14:36 |
| sandywalsh | "I've seen this message before" | 14:36 |
| markmc | requeue() is where there's an error in the consumers processing, right? | 14:36 |
| markmc | oh | 14:36 |
| sandywalsh | correct | 14:36 |
| markmc | don't we have automatic duplicate message rejection for RPCs ? | 14:37 |
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| markmc | why are we pushing dup detection to the API user for notifications? | 14:37 |
| sandywalsh | hmm, not sure what you mean? | 14:37 |
| jd__ | I think sandywalsh case is when you receive a notification, start treating it, fail, call requeue() to retry later, receive it again, finally decides you already handled it and so call reject() | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | why would we reject the message if we get it a second time? | 14:38 |
| markmc | ok, so you only know you've handled it by looking in ceilometer's database | 14:39 |
| markmc | as opposed to an in-memory cache of messages you've seen before | 14:39 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, correct, that's the common use-case ... for example, save to db, do some down-stream processing which fails. ... we don't want to reprocess the message another time | 14:39 |
| jd__ | markmc: yes | 14:39 |
| markmc | dhellmann, right, that's my next question - why reject() vs just ack()ing duplicate messages | 14:39 |
| sandywalsh | but that's a larger discussion, more around CM pipelines (a different ML thread :) | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: why does the message delivery system care about that though? | 14:39 |
| jd__ | maybe the question is "was it wise to call requeue() the first time?" | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | markmc: exactly | 14:39 |
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| sandywalsh | dhellmann, the message may have to go to another worker | 14:40 |
| sandywalsh | remember we're talking N:M here ... lots of producers, lots of consumers | 14:40 |
| markmc | don't get it | 14:41 |
| markmc | if a worker in a pool has seen this before | 14:41 |
| markmc | why would you want another worker to get it? | 14:41 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: if the workers are different, the should each have their own queue. If they are for load balancing, then they should pull from the same queue and ack messages that are delivered properly. | 14:41 |
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| dhellmann | and handled properly, even if handling means deciding that it has been seen and doesn't need to be processed again | 14:41 |
| sandywalsh | the simple use case is: get an event, store an event. fail on the return. | 14:42 |
| sandywalsh | we don't want to repeat that process (we'll fill the db) | 14:42 |
| sandywalsh | but we can't ack() since we could lose the event | 14:42 |
| sandywalsh | and we never want to lose a billing event | 14:42 |
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| jd__ | btw what happens if there's no ack nor reject nor anything? (if that's possible?) | 14:43 |
| dhellmann | if there is an error, then yes, report the error to trigger re-delivery | 14:44 |
| dhellmann | if the error is "I've seen this already", that's not an error IMO | 14:44 |
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| oldben | But in that example you already stored the event. | 14:44 |
| oldben | So you haven't lost anything. | 14:44 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, correct, which is the raise RejectMessage() situation | 14:44 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, there has to be an ack() at the very least or the queuing system will never drain | 14:45 |
| flaperboon | mmhh, but, why requeue wouldn't work here? | 14:45 |
| markmc | sandywalsh, why are we worried about losing messages we've marked as "I've seen this already" | 14:45 |
| markmc | surely we want to lose them? | 14:45 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: oh I'm just wondering what the queueing system does in that case | 14:45 |
| markmc | won't another worker see it, notice it's a dup and also reject it? | 14:45 |
| sandywalsh | flaperboon, requeueing is what would happen with any other exception type (not RejectMessage) | 14:45 |
| markmc | sorry, nevermind the last comment | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | what would RejectMessage do, then? | 14:46 |
| flaperboon | sandywalsh: ^ | 14:46 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, flush the message from the queue | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | how is that different from ack? | 14:46 |
| flaperboon | sandywalsh: but that's done automatically now | 14:46 |
| flaperboon | I mean, ack is always called (as for now) | 14:46 |
| sandywalsh | yeah, reject and ack() are essentially the same | 14:46 |
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| dhellmann | ok | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | then why have reject as a special case? | 14:47 |
| sandywalsh | there are some minor things about dead-letter queues,e tc | 14:47 |
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| sandywalsh | but, not critical for this discussion | 14:47 |
| sandywalsh | I'd be happy to just have ack() and requeue() | 14:47 |
| markmc | i.e. notice the duplicate message, but do nothing special, it's a no-op | 14:48 |
| markmc | rather than raise RejectMessage | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | that seems like enough to me | 14:48 |
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| sandywalsh | sure, I'm cool with that | 14:48 |
| markmc | coolness | 14:48 |
| sandywalsh | gets rid of a mess too :) | 14:48 |
| flaperboon | +1 | 14:49 |
| markmc | sandywalsh, ok, on the general point of maintaining API compatibility | 14:49 |
| markmc | any API in oslo-incubator can be changed incompatibly | 14:49 |
| markmc | sometimes a compatibility hack is nice | 14:49 |
| markmc | but if the incompatible change isn't going to effect too many users | 14:50 |
| markmc | or the hack is too gross | 14:50 |
| markmc | then I'd actually prefer the incompatible change | 14:50 |
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| markmc | it's in oslo.messaging that we'll have to go to great lengths to avoid incompatible changes :) | 14:50 |
| sandywalsh | k | 14:51 |
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| markmc | sandywalsh, oh, yes - delivery_info | 14:51 |
| markmc | what's the use case for that? | 14:51 |
| sandywalsh | there are possible work arounds on the client side, but basically its a means to get metadata about the event with the message | 14:51 |
| sandywalsh | "which topic did this come in on" | 14:51 |
| sandywalsh | "what queue did it come from" | 14:51 |
| sandywalsh | "when did it arrive" | 14:51 |
| sandywalsh | so, it's not a deal breaker, but there's some good stuff in the delivery info | 14:52 |
| markmc | ok | 14:52 |
| markmc | I'd be happy to have that | 14:52 |
| markmc | so long as we put an abstraction in place | 14:52 |
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| flaperboon | +1 | 14:52 |
| sandywalsh | yep, certainly | 14:52 |
| markmc | so let's put it on the todo list for the oslo.messaging notification client API | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that sounds really close to the Target class already, right? | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | I don't remember if Target has the queue name | 14:53 |
| markmc | no, it doesn't | 14:53 |
| flaperboon | dhellmann: nope, just topic | 14:53 |
| flaperboon | and exchange | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | makes sense | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | so a new class, I guess | 14:53 |
| sandywalsh | "number of retries" | 14:54 |
| sandywalsh | potentially very handy info | 14:54 |
| markmc | ok, cool | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | yeah, if we make a class it's easy to include all sorts of things like that and add new ones later | 14:54 |
| sandywalsh | yep | 14:54 |
| markmc | just about out of time, so ... | 14:54 |
| markmc | #topic open floor | 14:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open floor (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:55 | |
| markmc | and it doesn't have to be messaging :) | 14:55 |
| * markmc notes boris-42's oslo.db proposal | 14:55 | |
| markmc | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-August/013748.html | 14:55 |
| markmc | anything else? | 14:55 |
| flaperboon | Would it make sense to create an oslo.string (perhaps a different name) I was thinking we could collect strutils, gettext there | 14:56 |
| markmc | gettext, I'd put into oslo.i18n | 14:56 |
| markmc | fairly specialized area | 14:56 |
| markmc | I don't really know what do do about *utils | 14:56 |
| markmc | could do oslo.utils | 14:56 |
| flaperboon | markmc: me neither | 14:56 |
| markmc | but fear it would become a dumping ground | 14:56 |
| flaperboon | markmc: I think it would :/ | 14:57 |
| oldben | Yeah, utils ~= I don't know where this should go, I'll put it in utils | 14:57 |
| flaperboon | however, if we don't have oslo.utils we'll end up with a bunch of repos with 1 module in them | 14:57 |
| flaperboon | oslo.strings just for strutils | 14:57 |
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| markmc | oslo.utils.strutils, and friends | 14:58 |
| markmc | just some way of figuring out what should and shouldn't go into oslo.utils is needed | 14:58 |
| markmc | some way of explaining it | 14:58 |
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| markmc | e.g. "function <10 lines" | 14:58 |
| markmc | meh | 14:58 |
| oldben | Probably going to be a lot of judgment calls there either way. | 14:58 |
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| flaperboon | well, actually utilities instead of just common code | 14:58 |
| dhellmann | I'd rather we stick to libraries having clear purposes and not have a "generic" lib | 14:59 |
| markmc | maybe the categories of core python libs that the utilities relate to | 14:59 |
| flaperboon | dhellmann: +1 | 14:59 |
| markmc | oslo.coreutils :) | 14:59 |
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| flaperboon | LOL | 14:59 |
| markmc | because "core" clarifies everything | 14:59 |
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| flaperboon | huahuahua | 14:59 |
| dhellmann | if that means we put gettext and strutils in oslo.text instead of oslo.i18n and oslo.utils maybe that's not a bad thing | 14:59 |
| flaperboon | dhellmann: yeah, that's what I had in mind | 14:59 |
| markmc | dhellmann, yeah, maybe | 14:59 |
| markmc | oslo.text works | 14:59 |
| flaperboon | having something like oslo.text (I'm bad with mod names) w/ both in there | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | we'll also have to keep an eye on the circular dependencies, of course | 15:00 |
| * jd__ suggests oslo.data | 15:00 | |
| markmc | jd__, oslo.data vs oslo.db :) | 15:00 |
| simo | oslo.teletext, a blast from the past | 15:01 |
| markmc | ok, we're outta time | 15:01 |
| markmc | good topic for HK | 15:01 |
| markmc | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Aug 16 15:01:17 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| markmc | thanks everyone | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-08-16-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-08-16-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-08-16-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
| simo | ty | 15:01 |
| sandywalsh | thanks for your feedback/consideration folks! | 15:01 |
| jd__ | have fun | 15:01 |
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