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| Guest58831 | o/ | 14:56 |
|---|---|---|
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 30 15:00:48 2013 UTC. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 15:01 |
| dragondm | o/ | 15:01 |
| nealph | \o' | 15:01 |
| eglynn | o/ | 15:01 |
| mjmulloc | o/ | 15:01 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:01 |
| gordc | o/ | 15:01 |
| jd__ | hey everyone | 15:01 |
| mrutkows | o/ | 15:01 |
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| nijaba | o/ | 15:01 |
| n0ano | o/ | 15:01 |
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| jd__ | let's go! | 15:02 |
| jd__ | #topic Last week action: jd__ and dhellmann to write formal statement about limiting support for pre-grizzly versions of ceilometer | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Last week action: jd__ and dhellmann to write formal statement about limiting support for pre-grizzly versions of ceilometer (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:02 | |
| * jd__ whispers | 15:02 | |
| dhellmann | The ceilometer team has limited capacity to provide support for older versions of the project. Because the project graduated from incubation around the time of the grizzly release, that is the first version for which we will provide regular ongoing support following the standard deprecation cycle for OpenStack. The grizzly version of ceilometer is cannot be installed on the same server with earlier versions of OpenStac | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | because of conflicting package requirements, but is API compatible with the folsom release if installed separately. | 15:02 |
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| eglynn | nitpick: s/ceilometer is cannot be/ceilometer cannot be/ | 15:03 |
| eglynn | otherwise looks good to me! | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | corrected | 15:04 |
| jd__ | where should we publish that? | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | somewhere in our docs? | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | maybe in the installing section? | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | and also probably to the openstack mailing list | 15:04 |
| nealph | how about in the readme? | 15:05 |
| eglynn | should we mention the stable/grizzly branch explicitly, or is that implicit in "ongoing support"? | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | actually, yeah, I think it probably is implicit ... | 15:05 |
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| dhellmann | I think that's implicit? | 15:05 |
| eglynn | yep, agreed | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | if there's a link to that policy, I can include a link when I add this to the docs | 15:06 |
| nealph | i.e, in the root code directory.. | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | nealph: we have a lot of people trying to install from tarballs, so I'm not sure they will see it in the readme :-/ | 15:06 |
| jd__ | I was typing that | 15:06 |
| jd__ | the doc that is online is probably the most read, so let's go with that | 15:07 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: by "that policy", do you mean the overall stable branch policy? i.e. as expressed on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranch | 15:07 |
| jd__ | who wants to take the #action to make a patch? | 15:07 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 15:07 |
| dhellmann | I'll do it | 15:07 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:07 |
| nealph | was thinking 'in addition to' online... | 15:07 |
| gordc | readme is pretty empty, i'm not sure anyone uses it... it does point to http://launchpad.net/ceilometer | 15:07 |
| nealph | but that said, I agree with the tarball comment. | 15:07 |
| llu-laptop | I don't think it hurts to put in readme, as an addition though | 15:08 |
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| * nealph tends to look there first | 15:08 | |
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| sandywalsh | nealph, +1 | 15:09 |
| jd__ | so anyone up to the task? | 15:09 |
| eglynn | on sending to the mailing list ... the dev list is good, but should we also consider openstack-announce? | 15:09 |
| jd__ | we can ask ttx for -announce I guess | 15:10 |
| eglynn | (i.e. much less volume, reserved for important announcements etc, might hit a different audience ...) | 15:10 |
| nealph | I will | 15:10 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | jd__: I'm working on a patch now | 15:10 |
| gordc | fair enough. i guess since we don't need to update statement that often it isn't a concern having it in multiple places. | 15:10 |
| nealph | sorry, regarding readme. | 15:10 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: great | 15:10 |
| jd__ | #action dhellmann make a patch on Ceilometer documentation to include the statement about Grizzly support | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/31062 | 15:11 |
| llu-laptop | so fast | 15:11 |
| jd__ | cool | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann to send email to the openstack list about the support policy | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | oh, do you guys think we need to use the announce list? | 15:12 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: maybe, ask ttx for his opinion and permission | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | that feels a little formal, but I can talk to ttx if you want | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | ok | 15:12 |
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| jd__ | moving on then :) | 15:13 |
| jd__ | #topic Review Havana-2 milestone | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-2 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:13 | |
| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-2 | 15:13 |
| jd__ | if you're not aware h1 is on its way today | 15:13 |
| jd__ | so we should focus on delivering h2 now | 15:14 |
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| jd__ | this time every blueprint has a owner, which is great :) | 15:15 |
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| jd__ | think about updating the status of your blueprint as you work on them | 15:15 |
| jd__ | I don't have much comment on this for this week anyway; any question? | 15:16 |
| sandywalsh | Roland has prepared a spec for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/specify-event-api ... but had to do it as a new BP. Can I merge that with my previous spec? | 15:17 |
| sandywalsh | btw> dhellmann, you should give that a peek. In your wheelhouse. | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: it's on my list :-) | 15:17 |
| sandywalsh | :) | 15:17 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: yes, do you need me to do anything? | 15:18 |
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| sandywalsh | jd__, not sure. I could just point my spec to his wiki page. But is there a way I can give him the ability to change the BP directly? Perhaps assign him as the assignee or drafter? | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | the bps are linked already, do they need to be "merged"? | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | I'm not objecting, just asking... | 15:20 |
| sandywalsh | yeah, he had to create a new one because it wouldn't let him assign the spec himself | 15:20 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: maybe, I'm not LP expert :) | 15:20 |
| sandywalsh | k, we'll mess with it and clean it up | 15:20 |
| jd__ | but I can do assignment of bp of things like that if needed | 15:20 |
| sandywalsh | that's all from me :) | 15:21 |
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| jd__ | #topic blueprint discussion: support for auditing event - mrutkows, gordc | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint discussion: support for auditing event - mrutkows, gordc (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:22 | |
| jd__ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/support-standard-audit-formats | 15:22 |
| mrutkows | hi everyone | 15:22 |
| jd__ | mrutkows, gordc floor is yours | 15:22 |
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| mrutkows | still kinda new to Ceilomter, but over last month been working hard to learn code and come up to speed | 15:23 |
| mrutkows | basically what we are trying to do with this blueprint, is establish a configurale audit path that leverages ceilometer architecture and features, but can be used to create/log records that have normative data that can be attested to by an auditor | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | this sounds similar to the work sandywalsh is doing with recording notifications | 15:24 |
| jd__ | I've read through the proposal, and it seems like a good idea to me | 15:24 |
| mrutkows | i have more of a security standards background... and it came to my attention that people wanted to code special logging for Nova | 15:24 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: yes, but based on standards | 15:24 |
| * dhellmann hasn't had a chance to read the whole thing, so may be misunderstanding | 15:24 | |
| mrutkows | and we thought leveraging Ceilometer was a better path | 15:24 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: but the idea behind is really the same | 15:24 |
| sandywalsh | this would be easy to implement on the nova side to make a notification driver that would output in this "standard" format. There would have to be a corresponding parser on the CM side. If it's optional on both sides, I think it's a nice addition. Keeps the enterprise customers happy. | 15:25 |
| mrutkows | we want the path to supprt std. formats for normative comparison | 15:25 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: something I don't get, is how you want to store your CADF data? | 15:25 |
| mrutkows | so we proposed it be a configurable path | 15:25 |
| dhellmann | I love the idea of standardizing. We did have a few people object to the idea of requiring ceilometer for deploying nova, for example, but that was related to the scheduler. This could be less tightly coupled, so shouldn't be an issue. | 15:25 |
| sandywalsh | mrutkows, my apologies for not formally responding before this meeting. | 15:25 |
| mrutkows | well, for now as metadata as this is the path thats easy for now | 15:25 |
| gordc | dhellmann, is there a bp sandywalsh work? | 15:25 |
| sandywalsh | gordc, our approach has been to use the existing nova notification format | 15:26 |
| mrutkows | hi Sandy, yes I have seen many things in blueprints and other topics that we may have alignment in many ideas | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | gordc: several :-) | 15:26 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: ok, I see this in your WIP code indeed, but this seems under efficient, you're using counters but you don't really count anything | 15:26 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: what sandywalsh is working on will be much more useful I think | 15:26 |
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| sandywalsh | I don't think they're mutually exclusive. We're really just talking about the wire format, yes? | 15:27 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: in the end I think you want a notification driver for Oslo that emits CADF and a collector that registers CADF data in a well-designed db | 15:27 |
| mrutkows | jd: ive been hoping to align with Sandy's proposals, notification path (filter) seems correct path (push) | 15:27 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, +1 | 15:27 |
| mrutkows | jd: i agree | 15:27 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: which in the end is orthogonal to Ceilometer functionnalities, even if you use the same wire | 15:28 |
| mrutkows | it seemed that starting within Ceilometer and then promoting to OSLO after proven seemed best | 15:28 |
| jd__ | whereas I see event recording as sandywalsh is working a leverage for us to build more counters | 15:28 |
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| sandywalsh | jd__, except we can use the existing Event/Trait model to store the event as per normal. The incoming collector translator would just be different | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | is the point to get CADF data into ceilometer, or to get it out? | 15:28 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: to get it in, but there's no value for ceilometer | 15:28 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: I actually think you should start a side project on this | 15:29 |
| mrutkows | Primarily get it in, getting out would be a conversation for another day, as long as we can store it for now then im happy | 15:29 |
| mrutkows | CADF does have a query syntax | 15:29 |
| mrutkows | but that is something of a pipe dream at this stage | 15:29 |
| jd__ | you'd call it "OpenStack Audit Service" :) | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | would it make more sense to add a new query API that used the CADF format for queries and responses and accessed the ceilometer database? | 15:30 |
| mrutkows | OpenStack can brand it sure =) | 15:30 |
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| mrutkows | dellmann: your my hero | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | I need to read more. I'm not sure why the wire format between nova and ceilometer needs to change. | 15:30 |
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| dragondm | Hmmm... Y'know there is a side project already out there designed to take OS notifications and translate them to different formats... | 15:31 |
| sandywalsh | we haven't defined a robust query api for Events yet, might be something worth considering (so long as it's not bloated api-by-committee :) | 15:31 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann: would make myself and any info available to you | 15:31 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: yeah, but I really thinks it's a whole different set of functionnality at this stage | 15:31 |
| jd__ | audit isn't metering | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | jd__: sure | 15:31 |
| dragondm | it's called Yagi. | 15:31 |
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| sandywalsh | dhellmann, I assume it's if the endpoint isn't CM | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | but it does seem like it goes towards our revised goal of providing the data we collect for lots of purposes | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | this could be our first API extension :-) | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | although I don't see an issue with making it a first class part of the API, if it's just returning data in a different format | 15:32 |
| jd__ | anyway even if we keep this into ceilometer, this is going to need a new collector and/or db schema IMHO | 15:32 |
| mrutkows | jd: there is a relationship between metering and auditing | 15:32 |
| mrutkows | the cadf spec. acks. this fact if your interested in reading | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | jd__: well, no, that was my point -- if they're just mapping events/counters to these new record types, couldn't we do that with the existing data? | 15:33 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I've a tendency to think "audit" means "store raw stuff that we are sure nobody messed with" | 15:33 |
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| dhellmann | such as the notification events sandywalsh is adding support for? | 15:34 |
| nijaba | jd__: I tend to agree with your view | 15:34 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: yes | 15:34 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann: perhaps, but the CADF data model assures all info needed for ISO, NIST, COBIT etc are in the record in a normative way | 15:34 |
| jd__ | or one solution would be to twist sandywalsh's work to use CADF format instead | 15:34 |
| nealph | mrutkows: in the the record, or in the api response? | 15:34 |
| mrutkows | perhaps we can use this exercise to identify what the essential data is so any format could map | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: ok, well, using CADF format throughout does make it seem like a bigger project | 15:34 |
| mrutkows | nealph: in the record,the record eventually has to be immutable and even signed | 15:35 |
| mrutkows | nealph: audit records cannot be created on demand | 15:35 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, how it's stored in the db shouldn't really matter. It's how it appears on the wire and how it's published that really matters. | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | notifications aren't signed now, but that would be a straightforward addition | 15:35 |
| sandywalsh | dragondm, do you think the right approach would be to translate in Yagi or via a specific notification driver? | 15:36 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: for audit purpose, I'm not really sure | 15:36 |
| mrutkows | sandy: yes consider it a wire format, but if we can allow it to also be signed and stored in a format a customer needs, that is better | 15:36 |
| dragondm | hmm..... | 15:36 |
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| sandywalsh | mrutkows, customers shouldn't be hitting the CM db directly anyway | 15:36 |
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| dragondm | it might depend on their requirements. A driver would be simpler. | 15:37 |
| nealph | dragondm: +1 | 15:37 |
| mrutkows | sandy: auditors want to grab logs eventually and a format has to be one that can be relied upon (and better a standard format) | 15:37 |
| sandywalsh | dragondm, that's what I'm thinking. No need to stand up another server | 15:37 |
| sandywalsh | mrutkows, but couldn't they do that from the raw events? Why do they have to use the logs? | 15:38 |
| mrutkows | sandy: ideally customers should not | 15:38 |
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| sandywalsh | mrutkows, we wouldn't want to dump raw events in the logs if they contain sensitive info | 15:38 |
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| mrutkows | sandy: we have lots to talk about i can see =) | 15:38 |
| sandywalsh | :) | 15:38 |
| mrutkows | sandy: the companies that worked on CADF know that dumping raw events are not enough | 15:39 |
| mrutkows | sandy: background and discussion would take many beers | 15:39 |
| sandywalsh | I'll reread and give proper feedback. I don't think there's anything in there that worries me. I think it call all be done as drivers/plugins and as optional components. | 15:39 |
| sandywalsh | s/call/can/ | 15:39 |
| mrutkows | sandy: thanks ) | 15:40 |
| nealph | mrutkows: points for a nice BP though. :) | 15:40 |
| mrutkows | nealph: thanks much | 15:40 |
| jd__ | sounds great :) | 15:41 |
| mrutkows | jd: thanks for allowing us to discuss today | 15:41 |
| sandywalsh | mrutkows, mailing list or wiki markup for comments? What's best for you? | 15:42 |
| mrutkows | wiki markup seems to be more robust | 15:42 |
| * dhellmann likes the ceilometer architecture diagram in the wiki page | 15:42 | |
| jd__ | dhellmann: yeah me too | 15:42 |
| sandywalsh | mrutkows, will do | 15:42 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: would be a good idea to use your ceilometer diagram from the wiki in our doc actually | 15:43 |
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| gordc | jd__, was just going to suggest the same | 15:43 |
| mrutkows | jd: that would be great | 15:44 |
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| mrutkows | jd: I can provide the powerpoint originals if needed or tweak as needed | 15:44 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: original files would be good, too, for updates later | 15:44 |
| mrutkows | jd: i am actually working on another level of the diagram, to show an overlay of what major files comprosie each box | 15:45 |
| mrutkows | comprise | 15:45 |
| sandywalsh | you can add the original ppt as an attachment to the wiki page. That's what I usually do. | 15:45 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann: ok will post to wiki | 15:45 |
| nealph | I think there is a diagram update in the pipeline now... | 15:45 |
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| * nealph searching for the changeid | 15:46 | |
| eglynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27835/ | 15:46 |
| eglynn | nealph: ^^^ it that the one you mean? | 15:46 |
| mrutkows | Gordon will be helping me to review WIP code and with my first check in | 15:46 |
| dhellmann | nealph: there is, but we've been having some trouble communicating the useful bits of the architecture to include | 15:46 |
| nealph | yep :) | 15:46 |
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| mrutkows | nealph: Tong Li works in my group | 15:47 |
| mrutkows | nealph: I can work with him to see if he can make use of mine | 15:48 |
| nealph | great...maybe merge the text updates from that change and leverage this diagram? | 15:48 |
| mrutkows | nealph: will read the patch comments | 15:49 |
| mrutkows | and see if I can address with Tong | 15:49 |
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| nealph | k. will add that suggestion to patch comments. | 15:50 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:50 | |
| jd__ | if you want to address something else or continue :) | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | ttx suggested that we just send the support announcement to the main mailing list, so I will do that | 15:51 |
| eglynn | reminder: the freeze for 2013.1.2 is today (release due on June 6th) | 15:51 |
| eglynn | so if you've anything you think should be in the second release off stable/grizzly, please tag and/or backport | 15:51 |
| eglynn | (I'll do a trawl thru' the git log in any case before EoD today) | 15:51 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: is that schedule published somewhere? | 15:52 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: one sec, I'll dig it out ... | 15:52 |
| nijaba | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule ? | 15:54 |
| eglynn | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-stable-maint/2013-April/000479.html | 15:54 |
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| eglynn | scroll down to "Finally, future stable/grizzly releases will be ..." | 15:54 |
| dhellmann | thanks | 15:54 |
| dhellmann | I think I joined the stable team after that list was established | 15:55 |
| eglynn | a-ha, cool | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | I'm still getting set up with notifications and such :-) | 15:55 |
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| BrooklynChen | jd__: is there a bp for non-admin user authentication? | 15:56 |
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| jd__ | BrooklynChen: there was, this is already implemented | 15:57 |
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| jd__ | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 30 15:59:54 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-05-30-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-05-30-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| jd__ | thanks guys | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-05-30-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| BrooklynChen | jd__: oh… great. thanks I will check that. | 16:00 |
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| jd__ | BrooklynChen: if you need help, come and ask on #openstack-metering :) | 16:00 |
| BrooklynChen | jd__: OK ;) | 16:01 |
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| sdague | ok, who's around for qa meeting? | 17:01 |
| sdague | anyone.... | 17:02 |
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| sdague | hmm... lacking any additional voices I think we'll call it a day without a meeting | 17:03 |
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| mpavlase | sdague: hi, I'm interested in QA | 17:04 |
| mpavlase | * on QA | 17:04 |
| sdague | hey, well we seem to be very light on attendees | 17:04 |
| sdague | so given that, perhaps it's better to just take any conversation to the main irc channel | 17:05 |
| sdague | let me at least make a note of it | 17:05 |
| sdague | #startmeeting qa | 17:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 30 17:05:19 2013 UTC. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:05 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:05 |
| mpavlase | sure | 17:05 |
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| sdague | #info due to light attendance, qa meeting cut short, all attendees encouraged to discuss on #openstack-qa | 17:05 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 17:05 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 30 17:05:55 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:05 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-30-17.05.html | 17:05 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-30-17.05.txt | 17:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-30-17.05.log.html | 17:06 |
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| sdague | mpavlase: you on #openstack-qa? I don't see you there | 17:06 |
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| mpavlase | ooh, I will fix it, mmt | 17:06 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 30 18:03:48 2013 UTC. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | good morning / afternoon / evening everyone | 18:04 |
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| bdpayne | Bryan Payne from Nebula here.. do we have others joining the meeting? | 18:04 |
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| bpb | afternoon, this Bruce | 18:04 |
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| bdpayne | hi bruce | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | normally we have a few more… it was quiet last week too | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | well, we can walk through a few items | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | #topic Doc Sprint Update | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc Sprint Update (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:07 | |
| bdpayne | The doc sprint will be happening at the end of June in Annapolis | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | We have around 15 people attending | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | Should be a good event | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | bpb there may be opportunities during that week to grab a meal with APL folk, if you guys are interested in come out to Annapolis… I'm not sure yet but let me know if that's of interest | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | I'm sure we'll keep a pretty tight schedule though | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | #topic New people | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New people (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:09 | |
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| bdpayne | We've had several new people join the group recently | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | Next task is to convert those people into productive / contributing members | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | :-) | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | I'm starting with work with a few people to plan out some longer term goals and course of actions for OSSG | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | if you're interested in contributing to that, let me know | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | #topic Ongoing Efforts | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing Efforts (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:10 | |
| nicolae_ | is there a list of activities where a member could contribute? | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | I saw that the volume encryption code dropped recently | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | But we need to make that public to allow for people to review it | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | bpb is that something you could talk with Joel about? | 18:11 |
| bpb | That was dropped, but we're having some limited initial review by some key management folks before we open this up furhter | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | nicolae_ Hi! Rob and I had a list of such things in our presentation at the summit, but I need to get that online as well | 18:12 |
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| bdpayne | in the mean time, feel free to send me an email | 18:12 |
| nicolae_ | cool, thanks; I'll drop you an email too | 18:13 |
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| bdpayne | bpb Ok, that makes sense | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | the good news is that the securityimpact tag works… lots of people got emails this morning to go look at that code :-) | 18:14 |
| bpb | Right now, the updates shouldn't be visible. Is that the case? | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | yes, that is the case | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Open Discussion | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:15 | |
| bdpayne | That's about all that I have for today… it goes quick when there's a small group | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | Anything else that people would like to discuss? | 18:16 |
| bpb | Re- the volume encryption code update, sorry that the changes can't be seen, but this will be visible within a few days. Sponsor issue ... | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | no worries | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | I think it causes a little confusion this morning | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | perhaps a quick email to the openstack security mailing list would be helpfu; | 18:18 |
| joel-coffman | sorry about that | 18:18 |
| joel-coffman | I'll send something later today | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | sorry, my typing is poor right now | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | sounds good | 18:18 |
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| bdpayne | ok, then I think that's all for today | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | please use the mailing list if issues come up during the week | 18:19 |
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| bdpayne | cheers! | 18:19 |
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| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 18:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 30 18:21:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-30-18.03.html | 18:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-30-18.03.txt | 18:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-30-18.03.log.html | 18:21 |
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| dripton | DB meeting in 1 minute | 18:59 |
| dripton | Is anyone here for the DB meeting? | 19:00 |
| dripton | World's Shortest Meeting | 19:00 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 30 20:00:10 2013 UTC. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management' | 20:00 |
| harlowja | Hi all, rollcall if anyone is interested :) | 20:00 |
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| changbl | harlowja, hello there | 20:00 |
| harlowja | howdy! | 20:00 |
| alexpilotti | Ho | 20:01 |
| * harlowja give others a few minutes | 20:02 | |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 20:02 |
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| adrian_otto | hi | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | hey | 20:03 |
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| harlowja | so seems like we have enough people | 20:03 |
| harlowja | can start off with a little status of the library (from what i know) | 20:03 |
| harlowja | #topic status | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:03 | |
| harlowja | anyone that has done anything with the library feel free to let others know :) | 20:04 |
| changbl | Looks like you guys have some good progress, I am still trying to catch up with you folks | 20:04 |
| harlowja | i've been adding more decorators in, helping rackspace folks get there changes in for the db 'backend' | 20:04 |
| harlowja | changbl thx! | 20:04 |
| changbl | harlowja, the code is mainly in TaskFlow right? | 20:04 |
| changbl | not NovaOrc? | 20:05 |
| harlowja | correct | 20:05 |
| harlowja | #link https://github.com/Yahoo/TaskFlow | 20:05 |
| changbl | ok, I will check taskflow | 20:05 |
| harlowja | thats current location until the stackforge move finishes | 20:05 |
| changbl | so we are moving taskflow to stackforge? | 20:05 |
| harlowja | ya, so that its not just a yahoo (aka me) thing :) | 20:06 |
| harlowja | and we can use the review system that everyone involved in openstack knows | 20:06 |
| harlowja | and all that | 20:06 |
| kebray | hello. | 20:06 |
| changbl | sure | 20:06 |
| harlowja | hi kebray | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | kebray and updates from your side, just going through a little status of 'the world; | 20:07 |
| harlowja | ^any | 20:07 |
| uvirtbot | harlowja: Error: "any" is not a valid command. | 20:07 |
| changbl | harlowja, do I need to check anything on NovaOrc? | 20:07 |
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| harlowja | changbl if u just want to see how some of the nttdata folks and i started shifting code around in nova, then its useful | 20:07 |
| kebray | No updates from me other than I know Jessica was reworking her code… | 20:07 |
| harlowja | kebray thx | 20:08 |
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| changbl | harlowja, ok | 20:08 |
| kebray | she has an idea for distributed task flow management, but the first path she went down didn't pan out.. but, she's reworking it. | 20:08 |
| harlowja | all good :) | 20:08 |
| kebray | She's out of office today. | 20:08 |
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| harlowja | np | 20:09 |
| changbl | kebray, is Jessica working on ZK backend now? | 20:09 |
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| kebray | changbl. not at the moment… last I heard from her I think she said someone else is working on that. maybe you? | 20:09 |
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| kebray | She is working on distributed state management, using celery I believe. | 20:10 |
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| harlowja | #topic whose-working-on-what | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "whose-working-on-what (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:10 | |
| kebray | as opposed to linear/sequential state management. | 20:10 |
| changbl | kebray, I had a very busy week... but I plan to work on ZK backend | 20:10 |
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| harlowja | changbl i think thats still an open item | 20:10 |
| kebray | changbl: excellent. We have an interest. so happy to hear that. | 20:10 |
| changbl | kebray, sounds good | 20:11 |
| harlowja | btw i'm working on plugging cinder in (and just the general library goodness) | 20:11 |
| harlowja | i think kevin and jessica (from rackspace) are doing the distributed states (with celery) + db backend | 20:11 |
| kebray | harlowja: where is the code living now? Is it on stackforge? | 20:11 |
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| kebray | harlowja: correct about kevin and Jessica. | 20:11 |
| harlowja | kebray so its almost to stackforge, i think jessica has to do one more review commit :) | 20:12 |
| harlowja | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30789/ | 20:12 |
| harlowja | someone complained about whitespace :( | 20:12 |
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| changbl | lol | 20:12 |
| changbl | quite some effort to put a project on stackforge | 20:12 |
| harlowja | def | 20:12 |
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| alexheneveld | howdy -- sorry i'm late | 20:13 |
| changbl | one questions, what is the diff between zk backend and celery? | 20:13 |
| harlowja | i believe another guy is involved might also be looking in the ZK stuff as well changbl , haven't heard much though, can connect u 2 | 20:13 |
| changbl | harlowja, sure | 20:14 |
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| changbl | let me know | 20:14 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:14 |
| harlowja | hi alexheneveld | 20:14 |
| harlowja | *we are just going over who is doing what as of right now :) | 20:14 |
| adrian_otto | alexheneveld: hi | 20:14 |
| harlowja | which does bring up a good point about how putting stuff on say launchpad might help it become more clear | 20:14 |
| harlowja | but maybe after the stackforge move we can do that? | 20:14 |
| harlowja | like launchpad/~taskflow or something | 20:15 |
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| changbl | harlowja, one question, what is the diff between ZK backend and celery? I see a celery folder in backends/ in Taskflow | 20:15 |
| harlowja | its a good question, and comes down to what do we want the ZK backend to do :) | 20:15 |
| harlowja | celery is more of a way to run tasks, ZK wouldn't neccasarily be a 'running mechansim' | 20:15 |
| harlowja | does that make sense? | 20:16 |
| harlowja | #link http://www.celeryproject.org/ | 20:16 |
| changbl | I once used ZK to implemented a distributed queue | 20:16 |
| alexheneveld | thx harlowja hi adrian_otto - we've been spiking it (samc) | 20:16 |
| changbl | yes, checking their website | 20:16 |
| alexheneveld | celery supports ZK as a transport | 20:16 |
| alexheneveld | not used it tho | 20:16 |
| alexheneveld | TBH i think since we have a DB that is a logical choice | 20:16 |
| alexheneveld | cool as ZK is of course :) | 20:17 |
| harlowja | agreed, so ZK can be a 'storage' backend | 20:17 |
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| harlowja | but it also provides the other more interesting part of 'job transfer' | 20:17 |
| harlowja | example | 20:17 |
| alexheneveld | not sure if celery supports all the mutexes/alarms we need but that should be an abstract service | 20:17 |
| changbl | harlowja, what do we use ZK to store? | 20:17 |
| adrian_otto | we'll likely need a combination of both | 20:17 |
| harlowja | conductor A gets job to do Y, conductor A claims job Y via ZK, conductor A does 1/2 of the task required for job A, conductor A dies | 20:18 |
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| harlowja | now with ZK u can transfrer job Y from A -> conductor B when u notice it dies | 20:18 |
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| adrian_otto | assuming it rolls back and restarts from the beginnning? | 20:19 |
| harlowja | #topic details | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "details (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:19 | |
| changbl | harlowja, you mean leader election via ZK? | 20:19 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto well rolling back may be appropriate in some of the workflows, but not all, some u may just be able to resume where conductor A left off | 20:20 |
| adrian_otto | ok | 20:20 |
| harlowja | changbl so if u think of each job as having an owner, it maps to the concept of ZK locks and ZK watches | 20:20 |
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| changbl | harlowja, yes, I used that before | 20:21 |
| harlowja | when owner (conductor A) dies, ZK releases lock, then conductor B gets a notification via its watch on said lock, and then conductor B can attempt to acquire it | 20:21 |
| harlowja | so then that brings up the question of what is stored to be able to allow conductor B to resume (or rollback) job Y | 20:22 |
| changbl | harlowja, make sense, that means ZK stores that info? | 20:22 |
| changbl | i mean from where to resume | 20:23 |
| harlowja | right, each task/flow that composes job Y creates some result, that resulted is stored 'somewhere' and that result set can be referenced later for rollback or resuming | 20:23 |
| harlowja | so ZK can be one such place to store, or a DB can | 20:23 |
| harlowja | kevin from rackspace is working on the DB place to store that | 20:23 |
| harlowja | which started to showup this week (in the db backend) | 20:24 |
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| harlowja | an example of how said storage might look like (when printed), was showing this to john griffith (the cinder PTL) | 20:24 |
| harlowja | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/37929/ | 20:24 |
| harlowja | *just an example* | 20:24 |
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| jgriffith | o/ | 20:24 |
| harlowja | said information could be exposed as 'what did my job do' API | 20:25 |
| harlowja | *if desired* | 20:25 |
| harlowja | changbl does that all make sense? :) | 20:25 |
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| changbl | harlowja, yes. Just wonder, do you have any code on this that I can check out? | 20:26 |
| harlowja | for the ZK backend? | 20:26 |
| harlowja | or the code that produced the above paste? | 20:26 |
| changbl | The code which defines what to store, and how they call APIs | 20:27 |
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| harlowja | so right now that is | 20:27 |
| harlowja | #link https://github.com/yahoo/TaskFlow/blob/master/taskflow/logbook.py | 20:27 |
| ehudtr | so except locking you may like ZK also to keep the workflow state? why both db and ZK? | 20:27 |
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| kebray | some folks are opposed to zookeeper… also, it'll be good to have a lightweight db implementation for devstack me thinks. | 20:28 |
| harlowja | yes, but if someone wants to work on a ZK 'storage' backend, then that seems fine no? | 20:29 |
| kebray | Yes! | 20:29 |
| kebray | agreed | 20:29 |
| kebray | I'm not opposed to Zookeeper. I'm pro modularity and plugable backend implementations. | 20:29 |
| harlowja | which does bring up the good question of ZK ;) | 20:29 |
| harlowja | #topic locks | 20:30 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "locks (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:30 | |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredWorkflowLocks | 20:30 |
| harlowja | so if u guys want to check that out, its my idea of something that taskflow could provide | 20:30 |
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| harlowja | although maybe not at stage 1.0 | 20:30 |
| harlowja | when i was reading the google chubby paper, they say that not even googles own developers do locking right, so thats why they made chubby, so it'd be nice to offer a api that can help get it *somewhat* right | 20:31 |
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| harlowja | #link http://research.google.com/archive/chubby-osdi06.pdf | 20:31 |
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| harlowja | i just think that resource level locking will come up pretty quick, especially after talking to devananda about ironic | 20:32 |
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| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredWorkflowLocks#Ironic_.28WIP.29 | 20:32 |
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| devananda | o/ | 20:33 |
| harlowja | ha, just talking about locking :-P | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | i think its something we should try to offer, but offer it 'very carefully' | 20:33 |
| harlowja | thoughts? | 20:33 |
| devananda | #link https://github.com/openstack/ironic/blob/master/ironic/manager/task_manager.py#L20 | 20:33 |
| devananda | is what i put together for ironic | 20:33 |
| harlowja | thx devananda | 20:34 |
| devananda | nova alrady does this is a fairly poor way, IMHO | 20:34 |
| devananda | with 'task_state' | 20:34 |
| devananda | very easy to get out of sync // lost | 20:34 |
| harlowja | yup, nova confuses a task_state with a lock | 20:35 |
| harlowja | when task_state should just be that, a task state :-P | 20:35 |
| devananda | just look at "nova reset-state" | 20:35 |
| devananda | that that even exists says bad things | 20:35 |
| harlowja | ya :-/ | 20:35 |
| harlowja | do others think it'd be useful for taskflow to provide something like that locking API in the above wiki, or at least something like it | 20:36 |
| harlowja | *backed by 1 or more implementations | 20:36 |
| kebray | harlowja will have to wade through some of those links before I have feedback. | 20:37 |
| harlowja | np | 20:37 |
| adrian_otto | regarding the lock wiki reference from above, in section "Filesystem" under Drawbacks, it reads "Does not release automatically on lock holder failure (but timeouts on locks are possible)." | 20:37 |
| alexheneveld | yes, a generic locking service would be good | 20:37 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto does that make sense, i could word it better? | 20:37 |
| adrian_otto | that's not true, depending on what you define as failure | 20:38 |
| adrian_otto | if the caller holding an advisory lock goes away, then the lock is automatically released by the kernel. | 20:38 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto true, good point | 20:38 |
| adrian_otto | go away = process terminates for any reason | 20:38 |
| harlowja | alexheneveld its just when we give a locking api thingy, then people have to be prettty aware of how to acquire those locks 'sanely' | 20:39 |
| harlowja | *ordering issues become a big problem, lol | 20:39 |
| alexheneveld | is there a good one we could reuse however? | 20:39 |
| harlowja | alexheneveld none afaik | 20:39 |
| devananda | filesystem locks should, IMO, call out a draback that it's not distributed | 20:39 |
| harlowja | devananda sure | 20:39 |
| alexheneveld | shame. it's hard to get right! people will just keep asking for new use cases otherwise. | 20:39 |
| harlowja | i was reading about stuff like http://linux.die.net/man/3/dlm_lock, ibms vms and such | 20:40 |
| alexheneveld | it might be an idea to aim for a higher-level model | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | devananda: you still could use a multiplicity of filesystems as a backing store for locks if you were inclined to make a networked lock service built that way. | 20:40 |
| harlowja | dlm_lock and such stuff i didn't find much info on though, except that glusterfs i think uses its :-p | 20:40 |
| alexheneveld | as in you are locking lifecycle of a server | 20:41 |
| harlowja | alexheneveld agreed, i think this is why chubby (the google zookeeper) provides only coarse grained locking | 20:41 |
| harlowja | and i think if we can be pretty coarse, we will also be fine, its just defining 'coarse' isn't so easy, ha | 20:42 |
| alexheneveld | people should be discouraged from low-level locking operations tho i accept they may need to be available | 20:42 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: true, but with a SPoF on the network FS. or a consistency problem if using a distributed FS | 20:42 |
| alexheneveld | harlowja: makes a lot of sense (re chubby) | 20:42 |
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| changbl | harlowja, one question, why do we have so many (6) providers for locking? plan to implement all of them? | 20:42 |
| harlowja | changbl it was more of just a survey of ones i could think of | 20:43 |
| changbl | oh, ok | 20:43 |
| harlowja | i think redis, filesystem, ZK might be a good 3 | 20:43 |
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| harlowja | or just redis + filesystem to start | 20:44 |
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| harlowja | *so as not to scare people with ZK | 20:44 |
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| changbl | I can take ZK | 20:44 |
| changbl | for both storage and locking, i guess here? | 20:44 |
| harlowja | that'd be cool | 20:45 |
| harlowja | #link http://openreplica.org/faq/ was another interesting one, that has something like ZK in python | 20:45 |
| harlowja | didn't investigate much more though | 20:45 |
| devananda | though i don't usually recommend it, i suspect innodb+galera would actually be a good fit here | 20:45 |
| devananda | NDB would be another, but very complex to set up | 20:46 |
| changbl | never used OpenReplica before | 20:46 |
| changbl | ZK + Kazoo seems work nice | 20:46 |
| harlowja | changbl ya, it shouldn't be that hard to connect it to the taskflow api | 20:47 |
| devananda | AIUI, galera, with the proper settings, will do distributed lock before committing a write. min 3 servers, so partitioning is less of an issue | 20:47 |
| harlowja | devananda intereting, didn't know that :) | 20:47 |
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| harlowja | *interesting | 20:47 |
| adrian_otto | OpenReplica looks interesting. | 20:47 |
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| harlowja | adrian_otto ya, i'm not sure how mature it is though, didn't mess around with it that much | 20:48 |
| devananda | from the little reading on openreplica i did, it's aimed at geographic distribution | 20:48 |
| harlowja | with some underlying paxos concoord thing | 20:49 |
| adrian_otto | devananda: do you have a documentation pointer to galera re: locking? Where did you learn about that behavior? | 20:49 |
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| devananda | lemme see if i can find it | 20:49 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: learned about it while working at percona ... :) | 20:49 |
| harlowja | changbl if u want to work on the ZK stuff that'd be really neat, i think we can keep in the back of our mind how 'job/workflow' transfer can occur with ZK | 20:50 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: http://www.codership.com/wiki/doku.php?id=mysql_options_0.8 -- wsrep_causal_reads, IIRC | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | most of what I found when I looked for that is actually about table locking limitations in Master:Master setups | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | aha | 20:51 |
| changbl | harlowja, sure | 20:52 |
| adrian_otto | read committed isolation level might actually work well enough for what we need. | 20:52 |
| adrian_otto | and assuming that works equally well in a 3 node arrangement, that might actually be one of the best ZK alternatives. | 20:52 |
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| devananda | better link / explanation | 20:53 |
| adrian_otto | we could deploy/configure it using a HOT in a well automated way too, I expect. | 20:53 |
| devananda | #link http://www.percona.com/doc/percona-xtradb-cluster/wsrep-system-index.html#wsrep_causal_reads | 20:53 |
| devananda | adrian_otto: and yes, galera is designed to require min 3 nodes. it wont start with 2 | 20:53 |
| devananda | but will continue to run if a 3-node degrades to 2 | 20:53 |
| harlowja | devananda for ironic, do u have any thoughts on what u'd like for say when the thing using your context manager crashes (without releasing)? | 20:53 |
| harlowja | manual recovery at that point to release? time based release? | 20:54 |
| devananda | harlowja: eventually, time-based release-wipe-set-to-error or something | 20:54 |
| harlowja | k | 20:54 |
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| adrian_otto | using a Galera cluster also solves a multi-tenancy concern as well, which may of the other options don't address. | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | (if any) | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | s/may/many/ | 20:55 |
| harlowja | ZK has namespaces afaik ;) | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | with related auth? | 20:55 |
| harlowja | *unsure* | 20:56 |
| harlowja | alright, 4 minutes | 20:56 |
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| harlowja | adrian_otto it might be interesting to see if the hortonworks people (that i think are doing hadoop) have thought about how ZK and openstack | 20:57 |
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| harlowja | and especially the tenant issue | 20:57 |
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| adrian_otto | Savanna is actually Mirantis, not Hortonworks | 20:58 |
| harlowja | ah | 20:58 |
| adrian_otto | we know them, so I could ask | 20:58 |
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| harlowja | ah, either way | 20:58 |
| harlowja | i thought hortonworks, guess i was mistakened | 20:58 |
| harlowja | *which we know :-P | 20:58 |
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| harlowja | anyways, that'd be neat to see what they think | 20:58 |
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| harlowja | cool, well times up folks! | 20:59 |
| harlowja | email, or irc, or more email for anything else :) | 20:59 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 20:59 | |
| alexheneveld | bfn all | 20:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 30 20:59:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-05-30-20.00.html | 20:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-05-30-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-05-30-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 30 21:01:29 2013 UTC. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| russellb | hello! | 21:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
| russellb | who's here? | 21:01 |
| dripton | hi | 21:01 |
| devananda | \o | 21:01 |
| melwitt | hi | 21:01 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:01 |
| cyeoh | hi! | 21:01 |
| cburgess | present | 21:01 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:01 |
| alaski | o/ and at an OS meetup so may be spotty | 21:02 |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| russellb | so, havana-1 was released today! | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:02 |
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| russellb | 16 blueprints and 214 bugs closed | 21:02 |
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| russellb | :-) | 21:03 |
| russellb | so now our next milestone is havana-2, with a target of July 18 | 21:03 |
| comstud | o/ | 21:03 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:03 |
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| russellb | so, total 100 havana blueprints right now, 16 in havana-2, and 69 targeted to havana-2 | 21:03 |
| russellb | probably optimistic :-) | 21:03 |
| jog0 | o/ | 21:04 |
| russellb | but take a look, see what you have on here, make sure it's still current | 21:04 |
| russellb | and if anything is missing, let's get it filed | 21:04 |
| russellb | a lot got pushed from havana-1 to havana-2, so there are a lot already up for review | 21:04 |
| russellb | any particular blueprints anyone wants to dicuss? | 21:04 |
| russellb | or process questions? | 21:04 |
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| comstud | crickets | 21:05 |
| russellb | alrighty! | 21:05 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:05 | |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage | 21:05 |
| comstud | I need to re-open that sys_meta not being deleted bug | 21:05 |
| russellb | so, as discussed over the last couple weeks, we've started a slightly modified process for triage | 21:05 |
| comstud | or should I file a new one? | 21:05 |
| russellb | to help distribute the load | 21:06 |
| comstud | (since I reverted the previous fix) | 21:06 |
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| russellb | comstud: good question ... re-open i guess? | 21:06 |
| comstud | i thought re-open | 21:06 |
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| * russellb nods | 21:06 | |
| comstud | but i dunno :) | 21:06 |
| comstud | ok | 21:06 |
| russellb | yeah, works for me | 21:06 |
| russellb | so if you take a look at the Nova/BugTriage page, we still have some holes in the sign-up list. | 21:06 |
| russellb | could use some more people to take ownership of triage for a given tag | 21:06 |
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| jog0 | russellb: yeah, what review times | 21:07 |
| jog0 | were the numbers you posted accurate in the end? And how do we do a better job? | 21:07 |
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| russellb | jog0: yeah, the numbers are pretty accurate now ... current numbers here: http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats | 21:07 |
| russellb | so if we look at ... http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/nova-openreviews.txt | 21:08 |
| russellb | I think we are keeping up overall ... people seem to agree that < 4 days is a very good goal, and we're meeting that | 21:08 |
| russellb | we obviously have some that seem to get neglected and wait much longer | 21:08 |
| russellb | dolphm wrote a nice 'next-review' tool that helps pick a review to do, giving priority based on age, but filtering out stuff you've already looked at and such | 21:09 |
| russellb | so that's worth looking at ... | 21:09 |
| jog0 | not sure how this factors into the numbers but I have seen several patches expire with +1s etc | 21:09 |
| russellb | yeah, that's not good | 21:09 |
| russellb | actually, do reviews really expire even with no negative feedback? | 21:09 |
| russellb | that doesn't seem ideal. | 21:09 |
| dripton | the submitter can always revive them so it's not a *huge* deal | 21:10 |
| dansmith | yeah, I didn't think they would | 21:10 |
| jog0 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23207/ | 21:10 |
| russellb | ugh | 21:10 |
| devananda | wow... | 21:10 |
| jog0 | not sure if that only happens on stable | 21:10 |
| comstud | i think it happens everywhere | 21:10 |
| * jog0 just restored teh patch from the dead. | 21:11 | |
| russellb | #action need to follow up on whether it makes sense to expire changes with no negative feedback | 21:11 |
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| devananda | might explain why the "oldest review" has been stable just under 14 days | 21:11 |
| russellb | IMO that should only happen for reviews with -1/-2 and no updates for X days | 21:11 |
| russellb | so i'll follow up on that ... | 21:11 |
| cyeoh | there are reviews which are older than that around, just that someone has commented on it in the last 2 weeks. | 21:12 |
| russellb | probably just post to the ML | 21:12 |
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| russellb | cyeoh: the script shouldn't reset the timer because of a comment | 21:12 |
| russellb | cyeoh: only if you got a -1/-2 | 21:12 |
| cyeoh | russellb: yea agreed | 21:12 |
| russellb | otherwise it's time since (roughly) when you submitted it | 21:12 |
| russellb | the other tool to use to help pick reviews is reviewday | 21:13 |
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| russellb | http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ | 21:13 |
| russellb | that helps prioritize things based on other criteria ... test results, bug/blueprint priority | 21:13 |
| russellb | so basically, using one of these tools instead of going after low hanging fruit will help smooth things out | 21:14 |
| jog0 | russellb: can we get that to personalize? | 21:14 |
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| russellb | it's all open source :) | 21:14 |
| russellb | but reviewday, not right now | 21:14 |
| russellb | next-review is personalized | 21:14 |
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| russellb | based on what you've already commented on and such | 21:14 |
| russellb | https://github.com/dolph/next-review | 21:15 |
| russellb | feel free to hack on it ... i submitted some tweaks today | 21:15 |
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| jog0 | sounds good, I will redirect my rantings to the ML as this isn't nova only | 21:15 |
| russellb | k :-) | 21:15 |
| russellb | but yeah, i'm all for improvement in this area | 21:15 |
| russellb | i ended up going on quite the stats kick this week ... | 21:15 |
| cyeoh | I think it would help if we made a concious effort to do extra review effort about 2 weeks out from H2. To help reduce the last minute rush | 21:16 |
| russellb | because it was killing me not having good data on how well we were keeping up with reviews | 21:16 |
| russellb | cyeoh: +1 | 21:16 |
| russellb | with all that said ... the review burden for nova vs other projects is *considerably* higher, so kudos for at least doing as well as we have :) | 21:16 |
| russellb | but more to do ... | 21:17 |
| russellb | alright, let's jump to subteam reports | 21:17 |
| russellb | #topic sub-team reports | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sub-team reports (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:17 | |
| russellb | who's here to give a report? raise hand and i'll call on you to go | 21:17 |
| dripton | db | 21:17 |
| n0ano | scheduler | 21:17 |
| devananda | baremetal | 21:17 |
| russellb | dripton: alright, you're up | 21:17 |
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| dripton | db meeting failed to happen today. But we got a bunch of good commits in this week. | 21:18 |
| dripton | boris's db-improve-archving commits all went in | 21:18 |
| russellb | yeah, db-improve-archiving got finished up | 21:18 |
| harlowja | taskflow | 21:18 |
| russellb | :) | 21:18 |
| dripton | and Roman and Sergei got some extra tests in | 21:18 |
| russellb | great | 21:18 |
| dripton | that's all | 21:18 |
| russellb | kthx! | 21:19 |
| russellb | n0ano: scheduler! | 21:19 |
| n0ano | good discussion on whole host allocation (allocating all of a host to one VM, not bare metal but related a little) | 21:19 |
| n0ano | expect to see more on that in the future | 21:19 |
| russellb | cool | 21:19 |
| n0ano | no one appeared to talk about host directory service, I'm still curious on what exactly that is | 21:19 |
| n0ano | that was pretty much it for this week, as always, check the logs for details. | 21:20 |
| russellb | cool thanks | 21:20 |
| russellb | devananda: baremetal / ironic! | 21:20 |
| devananda | pasting a bunch (i actually prepraed something!) | 21:20 |
| devananda | two open-critical bugs in baremetal, both waiting for reviews: | 21:21 |
| devananda | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1178092 | 21:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1178092 in nova "second boot during baremetal deploy does not configure netboot : will hang unless the machine attempts PXE automatically" [Critical,In progress] | 21:21 |
| devananda | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1180178 | 21:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1180178 in nova "Instance IP addresses are re-used even when previous instance could not be powered off" [Critical,In progress] | 21:21 |
| devananda | Several bugs may be related / consolidated into this one: | 21:21 |
| devananda | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1184445 | 21:21 |
| russellb | should target them against havana-2 | 21:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1184445 in tripleo "deploy / delete fragility" [High,Triaged] | 21:21 |
| devananda | k, will target :) | 21:21 |
| devananda | Ironic is continuing to move forward. More folks are welcome, we've been discussing how to better split up the work | 21:22 |
| devananda | and we have an API spec now \o/ | 21:22 |
| russellb | getting reasonable amount of help/participation? | 21:22 |
| devananda | redhat's contributed 2 guys to the API so that is moving well | 21:22 |
| russellb | oh, cool, i should have known that, lol. | 21:22 |
| devananda | and we (HP) are mostly taking the internal bits | 21:23 |
| devananda | there's some work refactoring nova/cinder's glance-client and image manipulation | 21:23 |
| devananda | into oslo | 21:23 |
| devananda | being tracked here | 21:23 |
| devananda | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/image-tools | 21:23 |
| devananda | that's about it! | 21:23 |
| russellb | cool, sounds like lots of good activity and progress! | 21:24 |
| russellb | harlowja: taskflow! | 21:24 |
| harlowja | yo yo! | 21:24 |
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| harlowja | thanks to devananda | 21:25 |
| harlowja | "Taskflow is continuing to move forward. More folks are welcome, we've been discussing how to better split up the work." | 21:25 |
| harlowja | :-P | 21:25 |
| devananda | hehe | 21:25 |
| harlowja | haha, just continuing onwards, db & distributed backend getting done by a couple rackspace folks, | 21:25 |
| harlowja | more testing, stackforge nearly there | 21:25 |
| harlowja | figuring out new use-cases in ironic and nova, and seeing how taskflow can help there | 21:26 |
| harlowja | *and cinder* | 21:26 |
| harlowja | more people getting involved with different backends | 21:26 |
| harlowja | so all good | 21:26 |
| harlowja | thats about its :) more nova folks always welcome ;) | 21:27 |
| russellb | cool stuff, and meeting is just before this one if anyone is interested | 21:27 |
| harlowja | yuppers | 21:27 |
| russellb | annnnnnnnd... hartsocks: vmware! | 21:27 |
| hartsocks | hey | 21:27 |
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| hartsocks | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-05-29-17.01.html | 21:27 |
| hartsocks | So we've got 2 blueprints targeted for H-2 | 21:27 |
| hartsocks | And we have about 4 "critical" bugs/patches we did not make for H1 that will get pushed to H2 now. | 21:28 |
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| russellb | btw, on reviews on that driver ... | 21:28 |
| hartsocks | We're also getting more blueprints in from other folks out side of the regular crowd. | 21:28 |
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| russellb | i mostly don't touch it if i see you haven't touched it yet | 21:28 |
| russellb | would like to see your +1 first | 21:29 |
| hartsocks | Thanks. | 21:29 |
| hartsocks | I am humbled by your trust | 21:29 |
| russellb | if there's others I should consider the "maintainer" like that, let me know | 21:29 |
| * hartsocks bows | 21:29 | |
| russellb | doesn't mean I blindly +2 after that :-p | 21:29 |
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| hartsocks | Good to know. :-) | 21:29 |
| russellb | just saying there was at least one waiting over a week, but i hadn't reviewed because i was hoping you would first | 21:29 |
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| hartsocks | I will try and cycle through the reviews faster. | 21:30 |
| russellb | all good ... just letting you know how i think, i guess | 21:30 |
| russellb | and the one i was thinking about you have reviewed already now | 21:30 |
| hartsocks | I've also worked through the bug lists and prioritized most stuff. | 21:31 |
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| russellb | target bugs to havana-2 if you want to try to get them in | 21:31 |
| russellb | awesome, much appreciated | 21:31 |
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| hartsocks | So, VMware stuff is starting to pick up steam here. | 21:31 |
| hartsocks | I should have a few new developers coming on line in the next few weeks from our VMware team too. (just BTW) | 21:32 |
| russellb | cool, good to hear | 21:32 |
| russellb | i like maintained code :) | 21:32 |
| hartsocks | yep. | 21:32 |
| russellb | anything else? | 21:32 |
| hartsocks | That'll cover it. :-) | 21:32 |
| russellb | thanks! | 21:32 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:32 | |
| russellb | any misc topics? | 21:33 |
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| cyeoh | yep! | 21:33 |
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| cyeoh | I'd like to talk about trying something to make reviewing all the ported v3 API extension changesets about to come through easier | 21:33 |
| russellb | cool, have an idea? | 21:34 |
| cyeoh | at the moment the changesets look pretty big because although a lot of the code is the same as in V2 its a new file and so the diff looks large | 21:34 |
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| cyeoh | so what I'd like to do for the remaining extensions in contrib (and there are about 60!) is to do a giant copy of paste from contrib to plugins/v3 | 21:35 |
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| russellb | so how long should we be supporting v2? | 21:35 |
| cyeoh | the code would essentially be "dead" in there. as neither the v2 nor v3 extension code will attempt to load them | 21:35 |
| * russellb is thinking about the cost/benefit to any refactoring to cut down on copy/paste | 21:35 | |
| cyeoh | russellb: I guess for at least one full cycle | 21:35 |
| dansmith | cyeoh: so one big copy/paste that doesn't work, | 21:35 |
| dansmith | cyeoh: then a bunch of small patches with just deltas for v3-ness? | 21:36 |
| cyeoh | dansmith: yes | 21:36 |
| dansmith | and we just "ignore" the big ugly first one? | 21:36 |
| russellb | so ... if we "completed" v3 in havana ... could have it removed in I, ok ... | 21:36 |
| russellb | that's actually pretty clever, heh | 21:36 |
| dansmith | cyeoh: that's an interesting appraoch | 21:36 |
| cyeoh | yep and similarly for the tests too because they have a similar review issue | 21:36 |
| russellb | makes the reviews sound much more pleasant (after that) | 21:36 |
| russellb | though I would feel so so so dirty approving that first one | 21:36 |
| cyeoh | yea I realise its rather ugly and will probably need some updates when people update the V2 | 21:37 |
| dansmith | cyeoh: could we try it with a couple of extensions first? | 21:37 |
| dansmith | like, get three patches up, the big one, plus two conversions on top of it so we can see? | 21:37 |
| cyeoh | dansmith: sure | 21:37 |
| russellb | and if that works | 21:37 |
| dansmith | I'm +1 for that | 21:37 |
| russellb | could do 1 at a time | 21:37 |
| russellb | so each conversion is just 2 changes | 21:37 |
| dansmith | well, | 21:37 |
| russellb | 1 copy/paste that isn't used yet ... another that converts it | 21:37 |
| russellb | would help prevent things from getting too out of sync | 21:38 |
| dansmith | we could do that too, I guess | 21:38 |
| dansmith | yeah | 21:38 |
| dansmith | and we rubber stamp the first in each pair, if we approve the second? | 21:38 |
| comstud | I'd be +1 on that approach | 21:38 |
| russellb | and also doesn't leave dead code in the tree for longer than <gate job time> or whatever | 21:38 |
| cyeoh | yep, I'm happy to do that too. | 21:38 |
| dansmith | cool | 21:38 |
| dansmith | then I can feel like less of a slackass | 21:38 |
| russellb | :) | 21:38 |
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| cyeoh | I'm just aware that 60 or so reviews in the next 6 weeks is actually adding a reasonable amount of review load so want to make it as easy as possible :-) | 21:39 |
| russellb | same here ... i didn't start looking at v3 patches until it was too late for havana-1 ... sorry | 21:39 |
| russellb | way too many reviews out there | 21:39 |
| russellb | (or so I feel) | 21:39 |
| russellb | cyeoh: much appreciated | 21:39 |
| cyeoh | heh np. They're starting to flow in now :-) | 21:39 |
| russellb | cyeoh: let's see how it goes on the first couple | 21:39 |
| russellb | and then adjust the approach if needed | 21:39 |
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| russellb | it sounds like it'll make it pretty easy to review these | 21:39 |
| jog0 | cyeoh: do you have a doc on the high level changes in V3 that dives into the details to? so we know what to look for during a reviwe | 21:40 |
| cyeoh | jog0: Mauro posted a link to a wiki page a couple of weeks ago. I'll have to go dig it up | 21:40 |
| russellb | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NovaV3API | 21:41 |
| russellb | ? | 21:41 |
| russellb | that's just from google, heh | 21:41 |
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| melwitt | I found this in ML: https://etherpad.openstack.org/api-v3-review-guide | 21:41 |
| russellb | melwitt: nice | 21:41 |
| cyeoh | melwitt: yea, thats it. We need to add a few other things. | 21:42 |
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| cyeoh | everything that is intentionally changed (like return codes) should be explicitly stated in the changeset comment, but would also help to have a separate list of things we're meant to consider during the port (like json/xml inconsistencies for example) | 21:43 |
| jog0 | cyeoh: ahh | 21:43 |
| cyeoh | given the number of different blueprints which can apply to the same extension there may be multiple passes though. | 21:43 |
| russellb | cyeoh: random thing ... there is a versions.py in the api code that lists the APIs we're serving up ... v3 isn't in there yet, will need to be added, and have its status set to something that indicates its a WIP | 21:44 |
| cyeoh | I don't want anyone to consider the v3 API to be in anyway "fixed" until late in the H cycle | 21:45 |
| russellb | yep | 21:45 |
| russellb | so not even making it discoverable (even if marked as WIP) until later probably isn't bad | 21:45 |
| cyeoh | russellb: yea I have been holding off on the versions stuff because of the discussion around discoverability | 21:45 |
| russellb | is v3 configurable? | 21:45 |
| russellb | as in, can it be disabled? | 21:45 |
| russellb | should do that too if not already | 21:45 |
| russellb | and maybe even have it disabled by default until it's "done" | 21:45 |
| cyeoh | hrm do you want a config option because you can just remove it from the paste file | 21:45 |
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| russellb | yeah, a config option i think ... because ideally we don't want anyone to have to edit the paste files | 21:46 |
| cyeoh | from /etc/nova/api-past.ini | 21:46 |
| russellb | paste files are more like code than config IMO | 21:46 |
| russellb | glance had (has?) a similar option for the v2 API | 21:46 |
| cyeoh | ok. I'll add something to disable it by default for now | 21:46 |
| russellb | cool | 21:46 |
| russellb | i *usually* don't like having to develop a "feature" in tree like this ... but this is so massive, don't see any other way | 21:47 |
| russellb | a well justified exception, i think | 21:47 |
| cyeoh | yea keeping in sync with V2 changes is a bit of work as it is. | 21:48 |
| * russellb nods | 21:48 | |
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| russellb | so, we have a plan then? | 21:48 |
| russellb | for now at least? :) | 21:48 |
| cyeoh | yep, thanks! That's it from me :-) | 21:48 |
| russellb | cool! | 21:49 |
| russellb | anything else? | 21:49 |
| jog0 | cyeoh: will you be addressing http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack@lists.launchpad.net/msg23320.html in v3? are those the JSON/XML issues you mentioned? | 21:49 |
| cyeoh | jog0: that's the kind of thing we need to catch. If you could file a bug report or add an entry to the blueprint for those that you are aware of, that would really help. | 21:51 |
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| jog0 | cyeoh: I will add an entry in the BP, sadly I am not aware of how often/where this happens | 21:52 |
| cyeoh | there are a few cases where JSON does one thing and xml does something different too | 21:52 |
| cyeoh | jog0: yea, ivanzhu is doing a scan to try to pick up as many as possible, but its an easy enough thing to miss | 21:53 |
| jog0 | cyeoh: which blueprint would this go under https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/v3-api-inconsistencies ? | 21:53 |
| cyeoh | jog0: yea, that will do | 21:53 |
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| russellb | alright, thanks everyone ... more discussion in #openstack-nova is welcome as always | 21:54 |
| russellb | jog0: cyeoh: let's just continue over there if needed | 21:54 |
| russellb | bye! | 21:54 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 21:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 30 21:54:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-30-21.01.html | 21:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-30-21.01.txt | 21:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-30-21.01.log.html | 21:54 |
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