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| dachary | jgallard: \o | 15:02 |
|---|---|---|
| jgallard | dachary, hi! | 15:03 |
| jgallard | dachary, can you confirm me that, the meeting is at 4PM UTC, so... 6PM for us? | 15:03 |
| dachary | good point :-) | 15:04 |
| * dachary fixes his agenda | 15:04 | |
| avishay | the meeting will be in another hour? | 15:05 |
| jgallard | avishay, I think this will be the case | 15:05 |
| jgallard | in one hour | 15:05 |
| avishay | jgallard: i hate daylight savings :-/ | 15:05 |
| jgallard | avishay, yes :( | 15:05 |
| avishay | ok, see you in an hour! | 15:06 |
| jgallard | héhé, see you! | 15:06 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 3 16:00:33 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| *** bswartz has joined #openstack-meeting | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | hey everybody! | 16:00 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: o/ | 16:00 |
| eharney | hello | 16:00 |
| dachary | hi | 16:00 |
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| rushiagr | sorry, missed the last meeting. Was a bit sick | 16:01 |
| avishay | hey | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: hope you're feeling better | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | avishay: hola! | 16:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
| jgallard | hi | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | and there's the man thingee | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | alright... let's get started | 16:01 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: yes | 16:01 |
| bswartz | I'm a bit sick this week, but I'm here | 16:01 |
| kmartin | hello | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: howdy | 16:01 |
| vincent_hou | hi | 16:02 |
| * DuncanT wakes up | 16:02 | |
| jgriffith | Ok... so short agenda at: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: !!!! | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | I thought you were on vacation! | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | Alright... good turn out this week | 16:02 |
| DuncanT | Got back this morning | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | Let's get started | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | #topic finalize session topics | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "finalize session topics (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| jgriffith | http://summit.openstack.org/ | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | So I've narrowed it down a bit | 16:03 |
| avishay | jgriffith: for first-timers at the summit, can you give a quick intro as to how a session is run? | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | avishay: sure... good idea | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | So each session is about 45 minutes | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | That's going to include your time to get everybody in the room, get started and present your topic | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | We almost ALWAYS run out of time | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | The idea behind the sessions... | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | They're intended to be design sessions, not user sessions, tutorials etc | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | They're intended to make design and feature decisions for the upcoming dev cycle | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | Unfortunately it's common for folks not involved in the project to wander in and try to learn about OpenStack | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | So.... | 16:05 |
| avishay | Presenter shows up with intro slides, then discussion? | 16:05 |
| thingee | avishay: slides is optional from what I've seen. some people just began with an etherpad up | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | avishay: doesn't even need to be that formal (ie the intro slides) | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | it's a pretty ad-hoc deal, and it's mostly about collaborating and working | 16:06 |
| avishay | ok | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | Don't get carried away worrying about formal presentation etc | 16:06 |
| creiht | often just having an ehterpad up works while you discuss something works very well | 16:06 |
| avishay | if i don't have to make slides, i'm a happy camper | 16:06 |
| * creiht goes back to lurking :) | 16:06 | |
| jgriffith | creiht: +1 | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | I was going to get to that | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | etherpad is the BEST way to go about things | 16:07 |
| dachary | :-D a few slides with URLs & references are helpful, IMHO | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | that way everybody get's to contribute and take notes and we have a record | 16:07 |
| thingee | dachary: I'll give you a giant QR code | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | dachary: that's not really the point of the design session though | 16:07 |
| dachary | neat :-) | 16:07 |
| avishay | thingee: :) | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | I *think* there are some recordings of design sessions out on the web | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | I'll see if I can find some and provide a link to folks that haven't experienced the mahem yet ;) | 16:08 |
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| avishay | haha | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | So the key thing here is it's the rare opportunity that we all get to meet face to face and has some of our decisions out | 16:08 |
| * DuncanT hopes there are no videos...they're all going to make him out as an argumentative sod... | 16:08 | |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: HA!!! | 16:08 |
| creiht | DuncanT: we already new that anyways :) | 16:09 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: the design summit sessions are broadcast but not recorded | 16:09 |
| creiht | knew | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: some have been recorded | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | anyway..... | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | avishay: does that help? | 16:09 |
| bswartz | the conference sessions are definitely recorded -- I've looked and failed to find any design session videos | 16:09 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes, sure does - thanks! | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: DuncanT thingee creiht did I miss anything important to point out? | 16:10 |
| kmartin | to create a new eithepad start here, https://etherpad.openstack.org/ then being it up in your session | 16:10 |
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| kmartin | sounds good | 16:10 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I think that covers it | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | Key things.... | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | Show up and start ON TIME!!!! | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | If you're an attendee... show up ON TIME!!! | 16:11 |
| thingee | sounds good to me. Expect to run out of time and to have this be a stepping stone towards a decision. Spend the design summit discussing things are difficult to convey over ML and irc | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | The alloted time goes by VERY quickly and there's never a shortage of discussion | 16:11 |
| bswartz | seriously -- it's often standing room only if you're late | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | thingee: exactly | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | the idea is to focus on the *hard* things | 16:12 |
| dachary | any advice on how to make sure people get a chance to speak ? sometime it's difficult to say something without interrupting | 16:12 |
| thingee | otherwise you'll be a bit discouraged if you expected everyone to agree right away :) | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | and to have a few beers with the folks we all work with throughout the world on a daily basis :) | 16:12 |
| * thingee thinks jgriffith needs to take a break during the summit this time | 16:12 | |
| jgriffith | thingee: sadly my employer doesn't agree :) | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | dachary: That's really up to whomever is running the session | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | dachary: you'll kinda see how it goes, but usually getting people to be able provide input is not a problem with our groups | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | in fact it's the opposite | 16:13 |
| thingee | heh | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | the harder part is keeping some focus in the group | 16:14 |
| bswartz | dachary: getting a seat towards the front of the room helps | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | so the only thing I would say.... | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | Are we planning on an early unconference like last year to rough some of this stuff out without the extended audience? It seemed to really help last year to get the core team singing from roughly the same hymn sheet... | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | be respectful, let people talk, especially presenters | 16:14 |
| bswartz | DuncanT: +1 | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: yeah, probably on some of the topics we'll want to do that | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | but I also think we're more cohesive than we were at this time last year | 16:15 |
| thingee | ah yes, they call the front the fish bowl...at least it was that back at bexar. But you should be speaking up if you're in the front or have a real invested interest and now just on facebook on your lappy :) | 16:15 |
| kmartin | bswartz: don't give out to many of the secrets :) | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | and we're a bigger group | 16:15 |
| thingee | now=not | 16:15 |
| kmartin | did we get a bigger room this year? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I sure hope so | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | Ok... we can talk more about what to expect etc in cinder channel | 16:16 |
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| * avishay looks at the #topic .. sorry for hijacking :P | 16:16 | |
| jgriffith | #topic Finalize session topics | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finalize session topics (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:16 | |
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| jgriffith | I've hacked things a bit here | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | Combined a couple of sessions and just removed one or two altogether | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | I've got it down to 7 remaining | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | Which puts about 3 over budget | 16:17 |
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| kmartin | see a few ones showed up since the last meeting | 16:18 |
| * DuncanT still sees bazzilions on the list | 16:18 | |
| jgriffith | kmartin: yeah, baremetal | 16:18 |
| kmartin | Cinder FC SAN Zone/Access Control Manager | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | Yeah... | 16:18 |
| avishay | jgriffith: how many total do we get? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | avishay: about 12 | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I may be able to steal a session or two if needed | 16:19 |
| avishay | jgriffith: I think my topic on capabilities is similar to winston's on extra specs - i'd be happy to co-present with him | 16:19 |
| avishay | (if it's indeed the case) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah, that's what I put in the review I believe | 16:20 |
| avishay | oh, he has two... | 16:20 |
| avishay | I would say "Standardizing vol type extra spec as driver input" and "Cinder Capability Standardization" are similar | 16:21 |
| avishay | Also "Revisit backend capabilities/stats reporting" is in the same direction | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: notice I refused "Revist backend...." | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: or do you guys not see the review status and notes? | 16:22 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes i did, but if you need you can probably refuse mine too and winston and i can do 1 session on volume types / extra specs / etc | 16:22 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: i don't see the notes, just status | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | avishay: Ok, so that's what I stated in the notes | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | I'll send updates to all of you that I lumped together :) | 16:23 |
| DuncanT | Unit testing can easily become a unconference... I don't think it is of that much general interest | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | Out of the ones that remain... we need to pick what we want to cover | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: that'll work | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | (We might have already agreed that last week... rings a bell) | 16:24 |
| thingee | DuncanT: definitely intersted in it. I just thought it would be more useful for us cinder folks. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so "cinder plugin interface" | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | Just to clarify | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | The idea here is that 3'rd party drivers would no longer be a part of the Cinder project proper | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | Vendors would be free to do their own thing and distribute how the see fit | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | What that would mean for us though... | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Is some architecture/framework to provide some black-box compatability testing/verification | 16:26 |
| vincent_hou | remove all the drivers? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Some sort of certification process | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: ultimately that's sort of what it boils down to | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | That sucks and would mean an epic amount more work | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: up front it would for sure | 16:27 |
| guitarzan | we basically just test ours functionally | 16:27 |
| kmartin | I think the community would suffer with quality of the drivers and cinder as a whole as most active members have drivers | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | (and that is a rather more apocalyptic vision of what was proposed than I understood it to be) | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: yeah, so actually it is sort of what you guys are doing anyway | 16:28 |
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| avishay | IMHO the session would be a heated debate with no outcome | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Ok, so it sounds like we're not ready to go down that path | 16:28 |
| bswartz | -1 on plugin interface/removing drivers | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | I'll nix it | 16:28 |
| guitarzan | I think we did have a bit of discussion about this a couple weeks ago in the meeting | 16:28 |
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| kmartin | avishay: bswartz +1 | 16:29 |
| guitarzan | it didn't sound clear what it would mean, since it seems we already have a plugin interface :) | 16:29 |
| thingee | I think it would be a lot of work upfront, however, core would have more bandwidth to spend well, on core. | 16:29 |
| dachary | jgriffith: it makes sense to me since there is no way to run actual integration tests with proprietary solutions. It would be good however, to keep free software drivers for which a tempest can be run using standard packages. | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | just FYI, this is more along the lines of how Quantum is working I believe | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | dachary: huh? | 16:29 |
| vincent_hou | issue: who is supposed to ensure the further quality of the drivers | 16:29 |
| vincent_hou | community? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | dachary: There's no suggestion that the reference impl driver would go away | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: the vendor providing the driver | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | so no need to debate it sounds like | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | doesn't seem that there's much interest in this so we can just move on | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | Next one: | 16:30 |
| dachary | jgriffith: I was refering to ceph. I understand that lvm is going to stay. Does that make sense ? | 16:30 |
| DuncanT | I think we can aim to put some more though into the subject for the next summit? There are clearly people who already work that way, so how the core supports / doesn't support such endeavours *is* an issue, but I don't think it is a pressing one yet | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: +1 | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | dachary: Oh I see... | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | (I'd rather put the thought into how to test what we have while it is easy, then deal with the hard problems later) | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | dachary: well that's riddled with some other issues that I'd be concerned about | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: agreed | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | I think right now that's a better thing to focus on | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | Ok | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | #topic independent scheduler | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "independent scheduler (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:32 | |
| jgriffith | I'm not sure how I feel about this one | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | It's a neat idea, but we haven't really identified a real problem here as of yet that I'm ware of | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | aware | 16:33 |
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| DuncanT | It seems to mostly just work. Might need some tweeking to the retry logic, but that seems like bug fixing not design work | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: what seems to mostly just work? | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | It is not entirely deterministic, but that isn't necessarily a sensible design aim | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Having two schedulers runnign | 16:34 |
| bswartz | what is the current remedy when the node hosting your scheduler or API service goes poof? just detect this case and start up a new one? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: you mean in our current code | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: build an HA cinder setup | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | just like in Nova | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Yeah. I only smoke tested it but it looks basically good though non-deterministic | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: got ya | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | Nova works fine with multiple copies of the scheduler too... no need to mess with pacemaker etc | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | So my take on this is... | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | Much nicer from an HA POV | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | I'd rather focus on HA guides for implementation than go down this built in approach | 16:35 |
| bswartz | +1 | 16:35 |
| dachary | +1 | 16:36 |
| hemnafk | +1 | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | As we move into H we can revisit if vincent_hou would like | 16:36 |
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| avishay | +2 | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: sound reasonable? | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | I much prefer to make multiple copies work / keep working | 16:36 |
| vincent_hou | cool | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: my only reasoning here is setting priorities, not because I don't like the idea | 16:36 |
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| vincent_hou | ;-) i understand. | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | cool | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | alrighty.... | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | #topic cinder for baremetal | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder for baremetal (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:37 | |
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| jgriffith | I'm interested in this but to be honest I need some more detail than what's provided | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | anybody have any insight on this one? | 16:38 |
| bswartz | I know we have some customers who are already using cinder for baremetal, so I'm not sure what's missing | 16:38 |
| hemna | What do we need to support it other than what we are doing for nova already? | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | So this is the problem I think | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | I don't think any of us are on the same page WRT what they're going for here | 16:39 |
| bswartz | who proposed it? | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | I suspect this is manage local storage on a baremetal install maybe? | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | Robert Collins | 16:39 |
| clarkb | lifeless: ^ | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | clarkb: thank you :) | 16:40 |
| dachary | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/45 | 16:40 |
| clarkb | it is early morning his time right now but should be around in a few hours? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | if folks would like I'll ping him later and get some details | 16:40 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... that's what I'll do | 16:41 |
| guitarzan | it almost sounds interesting just because I have no idea what it means :) | 16:41 |
| thingee | guitarzan: +1 | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | #action jgriffith sync up with lifeless on cinder baremetal | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: indeed! :) | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, the only other one I had some questions about | 16:41 |
| bswartz | the session proposal scores high on buzzword compliance | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: haha | 16:42 |
| dachary | my interpretation is that it's about attaching a LV directly to the VM without going thru iSCSI | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | #topic volume give/take | 16:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "volume give/take (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:42 | |
| avishay | dachary: that's what i thought as well | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | dachary: I believe you're correct but dont' want to guess | 16:42 |
| hemna | dachary, isn't that the job of nova's baremetal support though? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | and it's useful in other places (Glance) | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | anyway.... | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: give/take | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | Is this something that's really high demand? | 16:43 |
| winston-d | Hey, guys. Sorry I'm late. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | and is it full of peril to update context on volumes to change tenant ID? | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: We've people interested in it. It's really a special case of ACL though... | 16:43 |
| avishay | winston-d: hey! | 16:43 |
| dachary | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VolumeTransfer | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: So if we get ACL's implemented it *should* help with this | 16:43 |
| avishay | I wanted to say, this seems like it has overlap with the ACL topic | 16:44 |
| winston-d | Avishay hi | 16:44 |
| bswartz | is there any session to cover multi-attach? because give/take sounds like a degenerate case of multi-attach | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Yeah... | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: yes there is and no it's not the same | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | Multi-attach != give-take | 16:44 |
| hemna | bswartz, yah jgriffith and us want to talk about multi-attach | 16:44 |
| bswartz | ok | 16:44 |
| avishay | bswartz: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/130 | 16:44 |
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| jgriffith | give-take in a nut-shell is transfer volumes among tenants | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | CMIIW DuncanT | 16:44 |
| hemna | bswartz, we want to allow ESX cluster nodes to attach the same volume | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | So here's the thing on give/take | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | I don't know that's it's going to be a terrible thing to implement | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | You're spot on. It just adds a bit of beurocracy to make it hard to do by accident | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | and I don't know that there's a huge debate on whether to do it or not | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | I think we can has that one out unconf or even over IRC | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | I've not heard anybody who hates it... | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | and I'd rather get ACL's figured out before trying to tackle it | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | I think some implementation details may fall out as a result of ACL's | 16:46 |
| DuncanT | Sure. Can we just mention it at the ACL session? Then anybody who might want to kick off will know about it | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: For sure! | 16:46 |
| avishay | DuncanT: +1 | 16:46 |
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| dachary | +1 | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | I think we weave it in as a use case of ACL's | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | or a motiviator | 16:46 |
| winston-d | +1 | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | or whatever you somebody wants to call it :) | 16:46 |
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| vincent_hou | DuncanT: is the ACL for cinder project only? | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | vincent_hou: I'm not the main driver for ACLs, just an interested bystander | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: isn't ACL's you? | 16:48 |
| vincent_hou | yes, i submitted it | 16:48 |
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| dachary | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/98 | 16:48 |
| winston-d | Vincent_Hou will u attend this summit? | 16:49 |
| vincent_hou | yes | 16:49 |
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| winston-d | Cool | 16:49 |
| vincent_hou | visa received today | 16:49 |
| dachary | vincent_hou: "Use case: several users can share the data in one volume." do you mean read-only ? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: DuncanT I've approved the ACL and added the note about give/take | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | and the link to the give/take wiki | 16:50 |
| vincent_hou | yes. it came from that use case. | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | I'll expect the two of you to synch up and run this one together if that's ok? | 16:50 |
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| vincent_hou | ok. | 16:50 |
| avishay | dachary: VMs might share read-write volumes too... | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | Sure | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | Everybody good with read/only multi-attach? | 16:51 |
| dachary | avishay: that is scary :-) | 16:51 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: no | 16:51 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: yes | 16:51 |
| bswartz | read/write multi attach is important | 16:51 |
| avishay | dachary: why? some file systems / applications handle it just fine | 16:51 |
| avishay | bswartz: +1 | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: sure | 16:51 |
| vincent_hou | yes | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | I have no problem with looking into that | 16:52 |
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| dachary | avishay: interesting | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | My focus however first is R/O multi-attach and go from there | 16:52 |
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| xyang | hemna: is there a session on multiattach in nova too? | 16:52 |
| hemna | I don't know. | 16:52 |
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| bswartz | I fail to understand why it's hard to do -- we go out of our way to prevent multi attach | 16:52 |
| kmartin | bswartz: I'll be talking about that in the same session with jgriffith | 16:53 |
| hemna | There is a group here at HP that is working on the ESX changes to support attaching a volume to multiple vmware server nodes. | 16:53 |
| bswartz | at the driver level multi-attach can already work | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: really? | 16:53 |
| hemna | I'd just like to avoid needing to touch every driver to support it. | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | it's not that it's hard to do, it's that it breaks shit! | 16:53 |
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| DuncanT | bswartz: It is hard because data consistency issues crop up all over the shop | 16:53 |
| JM1 | what's the use case for R/W multi-attach? | 16:53 |
| guitarzan | we just need a --yes-i-really-mean-it flag | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | latencies, consistencies, lost data, encryption | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: +1 :) | 16:54 |
| bswartz | JM1: the use case for R/W multi attach is clustered filesystems with a quorum disk | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | JM1: allowing somebody to F'themeselve in a serious manner | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | We also need a guest stress test IMO | 16:54 |
| thingee | guitarzan: that really does exist for RGW :) | 16:54 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: we can discuss in the session that's what we are working on | 16:54 |
| JM1 | bswartz: and people want to run such things on cloud storage? | 16:54 |
| bswartz | JM1: absolultely | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | So that people who *think* they've gotten it right can test at least some of the edge cases | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | Sounds good... I've modified the description to include discuss R/W multi-attach | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | folks definitely want multiattach (RW/clustered/whatever) | 16:55 |
| JM1 | bswartz: what kind of benefit does it give them? | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: indeed | 16:55 |
| hemna | DuncanT, we wrote some python stress tests to test out our drivers. I'd like to eventually make it usable by others in cinder to stress test cinder itself. | 16:55 |
| hemna | guitarzan, +1 | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | and I think we'll get there, but I'm wonderinf if it needs limits via things like Gluster plugin, NFS plugin etc | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | JM1: Clustered FS in the cloud makes some types of HA really easy | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | anyway.... | 16:56 |
| bswartz | JM1: the ability to run existing applications that rely on clustered filesystems and quorum disks (such as any Microsoft Clustering solution) | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | #topic encryption | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "encryption (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:56 | |
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| guitarzan | thingee: rgw? | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | So it doesn't seem like anybody else has been following the ML discussions on this | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | but you REALLy need to take a look at this IMO | 16:56 |
| * bswartz has | 16:56 | |
| jgriffith | It has VERY serious implications for all of us | 16:56 |
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| bswartz | evil encryption is evil | 16:57 |
| avishay | that sounds rather ominous | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | all of the discussions sound very handwavy to me | 16:57 |
| * DuncanT is a bit behind, I assumed it would get properly hashed out at the summit - the way they are proposing to do it in nova is just broken, for usability and security | 16:57 | |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: don't assume :) | 16:57 |
| avishay | I still don't understand the thread model | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | Oh dear | 16:57 |
| * hemna waves hands | 16:57 | |
| jgriffith | So if folks are following this and have input, I'm a bit disappointed that I've been the only one objecting | 16:58 |
| avishay | *threat model | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | I objected to two reviews ont he subject | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: indeed! thanks for that BTW | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | avishay: what do you mean? | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you mean why it's bad? | 16:58 |
| hemna | which subject? encryption? or multi-attach ? | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | Discussing the implementation details on the mailing list is just painful | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: that's very true... | 16:58 |
| avishay | jgriffith: no, what they are trying to solve. what is trusted? what are they trying to protect against? | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | So we have a session in Cinder and in Nova that should not overlap | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | so we can all attend both | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | avishay: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VolumeEncryption | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | I'm hoping to get our encryption guy to go to both too | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | So encryption aside | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | It take a key management piece out of Cinder | 17:00 |
| thingee | avishay: the focus isn't exactly vendor centric. the fear is once we have something, no one would be working with it really. some backends might have their own solution to this already. | 17:00 |
| dachary | before any kind of encryption can be implemented, there needs to be a way to store keys, which is missing. | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | which I think is full of issues | 17:00 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i've seen that, but it doesn't answer my question - it goes right into architecture without going into the threat model first | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | The other thing is the fact that if you're device does things like encryption built-in or de-dup, or compression this could cause some unexpected behaviors | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | avishay: they touch on it | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | but regardless, I didn't write it so you're not going to get insight from me :) | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | and we're out of time | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | but I wanted to make sure folks were aware of this and that they look at the patch etc | 17:01 |
| DuncanT | "There are some additional unknowns about how the encrypted device will interact with other OpenStack features. For example, exporting/snapshotting volumes and live migration will need to be investigated" | 17:01 |
| avishay | i'd like a summit topic on it and get it all sorted out | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | think about implications, alternative implementations (ie same impl in Cinder) that the drivers can over-ride with their own impls | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | avishay: as I just said, you've got two | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | Ok... | 17:02 |
| thingee | avishay: It's in the first paragraph of the intro | 17:02 |
| thingee | thanks, bye! | 17:02 |
| thingee | :) | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | thanks everyone | 17:02 |
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| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 3 17:02:54 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-04-03-16.00.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-04-03-16.00.txt | 17:02 |
| avishay | bye all! | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-04-03-16.00.log.html | 17:03 |
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| vincent_hou | c u | 17:03 |
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| winston-d | Bye | 17:03 |
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| rushiagr | bye | 17:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hi all | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 17:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 3 17:05:31 2013 UTC. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 17:05 |
| BobBall | Morning John | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | who is around for today's meeting? | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | good evening bob | 17:05 |
| * BobBall waves excitedly | 17:05 | |
| matelakat | Hi | 17:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, lets get cracking | 17:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic actions | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:07 | |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, not reviewed the release notes properly | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: I saw you /boot/guest stuff, thank you! | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | how is the ISO stuff? | 17:08 |
| matelakat | I committed a patch to devstack, so hopefully will document it during the week. | 17:08 |
| matelakat | ISO -no porgress | 17:08 |
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| BobBall | What's the deadline for the release notes? | 17:08 |
| matelakat | tbh, I would like to play with it, while I am documenting it. | 17:08 |
| BobBall | Isn't that urgent now? | 17:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | yep | 17:09 |
| matelakat | ISO is likely to be next week. | 17:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | its like due yesterday | 17:09 |
| matelakat | I am re -raising the iso action. | 17:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | #action matelakat to look at documenting ISO boot | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | my patch got in, which is nice | 17:10 |
| matelakat | #action johnthetubaguy to review blueprints for release notes | 17:10 |
| BobBall | Ok - where are the changes that we need to review for the release notes, or who has the action to change them? I didn't think I had an action, so I'm hoping it's one of you two :D | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | thank you :-) | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | it was me | 17:10 |
| BobBall | Well - we had some proposed release notes to add - should we just add them in case you don't have time John? | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | looking at the blueprints | 17:10 |
| matelakat | #action matelakat to document /boot/guest | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes, go for adding what you have | 17:10 |
| matelakat | #action matelakat to add https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/XenServer/BootFromISO to the install docs | 17:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, shall we move onto docs? | 17:11 |
| matelakat | Sure. | 17:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: I would test those first, see if it works OK for you! | 17:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | we should have tempests tests for this at some point | 17:11 |
| matelakat | y. | 17:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Docs | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:12 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any docs news / questions? | 17:12 |
| matelakat | I only document stuff, that I have seen working - don't take it personally | 17:12 |
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| matelakat | Small doc improvements last week: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/25643/ | 17:13 |
| BobBall | ok - so this is where we were meant to talk about release notes I guess! Sorry! | 17:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 17:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, it was actions from last meeting too | 17:13 |
| matelakat | Should we do it now? | 17:14 |
| BobBall | yes | 17:14 |
| BobBall | I'm trying to find links :D | 17:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | add what you fancy | 17:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was going to review all the blueprints for xenapi impact | 17:14 |
| matelakat | Let's try to put on the obvious ones now. | 17:14 |
| BobBall | hmmmm | 17:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 17:14 |
| BobBall | how do you see the previous agenda? That's not archived with the meeting minutes! | 17:15 |
| BobBall | rubbish! | 17:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, yes, we should add the links really | 17:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | you can see the history in the wiki I thought | 17:15 |
| BobBall | I'm trying to find it and I'm clearly incompetent... | 17:16 |
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| BobBall | https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/XenAPI&oldid=19604 is this week's | 17:16 |
| BobBall | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/XenAPI&oldid=19604 Agenda for this week | 17:16 |
| BobBall | Is that the right syntax? :) | 17:16 |
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| matelakat | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Grizzly | 17:16 |
| BobBall | https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/XenAPI&direction=prev&oldid=19604 is last week's agenda which includes suggestions for release notes changes | 17:16 |
| matelakat | Nova | 17:17 |
| matelakat | What pops up in your mind? | 17:17 |
| BobBall | The only nova one from https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/XenAPI&direction=prev&oldid=19604 was config drive 2... but if it's not tested/demoed, not sure we can add it | 17:17 |
| BobBall | Cinder has the XenAPINFS driver stuff | 17:18 |
| BobBall | so we could add that | 17:18 |
| matelakat | Okay, I am adding that. | 17:18 |
| matelakat | now | 17:18 |
| BobBall | Great - then if John has a chance to go through blueprints there may be other additions | 17:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: I think config drive support is OK to add, maybe mark as experimental | 17:19 |
| matelakat | Okay, that was a one-word addition. | 17:19 |
| matelakat | done. | 17:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 17:19 |
| matelakat | not really much, it's frustrating. | 17:19 |
| matelakat | Bob, what do you think, should we put some effort to try out ConfigDrive? | 17:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | its not zero | 17:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was just about to say, Rick Harris and I will be looking at Config Drive | 17:20 |
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| matelakat | Oh, that's cool. | 17:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic blueprints | 17:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:21 | |
| BobBall | great. | 17:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, we should cover more of this at the summit | 17:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | and get that page update | 17:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | but we are looking into ways to deprecate the current agent, and move towards cloud-init | 17:21 |
| matelakat | Fair enough. | 17:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | especially now the windows version is getting there | 17:21 |
| matelakat | y. | 17:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | bit issue is online password reset, not 100% sure about that one yet | 17:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol, I keep reading y as why rather than yes | 17:22 |
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| matelakat | Don't do that. | 17:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, anything more for blueprints while we are on this? | 17:23 |
| matelakat | Not really. | 17:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 17:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #topic bugs and qa | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs and qa (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:23 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so hows tempest stuff going? | 17:23 |
| BobBall | which tempest stuff? | 17:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat getting tempest running against XenServer | 17:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | I keep seeing the odd patch, how is it all looking? | 17:24 |
| matelakat | You mean the XML client stuff. | 17:24 |
| BobBall | ah | 17:24 |
| matelakat | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/25609/ | 17:24 |
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| matelakat | So, last time I ran the full tempest, I had issues around the console support. | 17:25 |
| matelakat | But, another stuff popped up last week. | 17:25 |
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| matelakat | Which might be qa related. | 17:25 |
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| matelakat | Boot from volume - As we got rid of the kernel lockups, I tried to run the bfv exercise. | 17:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, OK | 17:26 |
| matelakat | And that raised two (known) issues: XenServer type images not supported with Cinder (create volume from image) | 17:27 |
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| matelakat | So I got rid of that by setting up a raw image. | 17:27 |
| matelakat | And came the next issue: Nova did not detect that it's a PV | 17:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm | 17:28 |
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| matelakat | So these are two things which we could discuss in detail during the summit. | 17:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | that should be part of the glance settings really | 17:28 |
| matelakat | I would like to eliminate both. | 17:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | PV mode | 17:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | the detection code is never going to be super awesome | 17:28 |
| matelakat | Y, I will try to set the xen tag on the image, and see if that works. | 17:28 |
| BobBall | we can probably detect if the kernel is PV using readnotes | 17:28 |
| matelakat | But I had to stop investigation at that point. | 17:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its filesystem dependent, and other things, maybe take a peak at how we detect that today | 17:29 |
| matelakat | Anyhow, bfv is sitting in the backlog at the moment. | 17:29 |
| BobBall | pygrub has to be able to identify the kernel (i.e. dom0 attach to the filesystem) to boot as PV - so once we have the kernel we only need to check if it's a pvops kernel which is where readnotes comes in | 17:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK | 17:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | console issues you mentioned? | 17:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | the serial console has not been implemented yet, maybe that is related to your issue? | 17:32 |
| matelakat | I guess so. | 17:32 |
| matelakat | Afaik, there is a patch somewhere in review.os | 17:32 |
| matelakat | I am adding this task to the backlog. | 17:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | indeed, its on the summit discussion | 17:32 |
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| matelakat | it wasn't the serial one, I think. | 17:33 |
| matelakat | I am not sure. | 17:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, ok | 17:33 |
| matelakat | Let's shelve this. | 17:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes | 17:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic OpenDiscussion | 17:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenDiscussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:33 | |
| johnthetubaguy | So any other items for today | 17:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess the meeting time is one | 17:34 |
| matelakat | Could we do it a bit later? | 17:34 |
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| BobBall | haha | 17:34 |
| BobBall | well I looked last week | 17:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | Tuesday 1600 UTC? | 17:35 |
| BobBall | we can move to a diff day and have it an hour or two earlier | 17:35 |
| BobBall | sounds good to me. | 17:35 |
| matelakat | +1 | 17:35 |
| BobBall | Should still be fine for US ppl | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes | 17:35 |
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| matelakat | And, we should send out email to the mailing list | 17:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #action email about time change | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | absolutally | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | I will see if people object | 17:35 |
| BobBall | Perfect | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | and its a good excuse to advertise the meeting again | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | and the summit session | 17:36 |
| BobBall | sounds like the bot is down | 17:36 |
| matelakat | Would be nice to see more guys here. | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 17:36 |
| BobBall | oh | 17:36 |
| BobBall | maybe not | 17:36 |
| matelakat | sys.exit(0) | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol | 17:36 |
| BobBall | surely you mean sys.exit(1) | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 3 17:36:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:36 |
| matelakat | import sys | 17:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-04-03-17.05.html | 17:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-04-03-17.05.txt | 17:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-04-03-17.05.log.html | 17:36 |
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| BobBall | I'm sure this classifies as an error condition | 17:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it wasn't that bad, surely :-P | 17:37 |
| BobBall | :) | 17:37 |
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| BobBall | See you next week John | 17:38 |
| BobBall | *gone* | 17:38 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 19:01 |
| ogelbukh | o/ | 19:01 |
| chmouel | o/ | 19:01 |
| swifterdarrell | o/ | 19:01 |
| notmyname | anyone from RAX here? | 19:01 |
| cschwede | o/ | 19:01 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: hi | 19:01 |
| notmyname | cschwede: ah, glad to see you. I want to make sure you're here fro the summit session summary | 19:02 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: cinder as an API for reserving local disk space on a baremetal node | 19:02 |
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| lifeless | jgriffith: clearly using cinder provided iscsi block devices from baremetal is pretty straight forward | 19:02 |
| chmouel | lifeless: this is #openstack-meeting this is better suited in openstack-dev | 19:02 |
| * ttx lurks | 19:02 | |
| notmyname | let's get started and see if any racker joins | 19:02 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 3 19:02:49 2013 UTC. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | not a lot on the agenda today | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | (and will go very fast if we don't get a QA update for RAX) | 19:03 |
| notmyname | but let's leave that for later | 19:03 |
| lifeless | chmouel: fair enough; was following up on my name being mentioned :P | 19:03 |
| notmyname | first up, general QA question. are there any QA efforts beyond rackspace that anyone is doing now? | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | I'm guessing that's a now | 19:04 |
| notmyname | *no | 19:04 |
| chmouel | noip not for me | 19:04 |
| notmyname | creiht: ping. know anything about RAX QA status? | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | until we get that, let's move on to summit scheduling | 19:05 |
| cschwede | please let me know if i can help out with some QA tasks | 19:05 |
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| zaitcev | RHOS and Fedora have some QA running, but the former goes release to release, while the latter is a bit bug-oriented and package oriented. | 19:05 |
| notmyname | cschwede: thanks. we'll talk about that at the summit. the basic answer is "YES!" | 19:05 |
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| cschwede | notmyname: ok :) | 19:06 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: cool. do you know if they've been looking at the 1.8.0 RC? | 19:06 |
| notmyname | we've backported just about everything that's come in since the RC cut, so we're probably ok. I haven't heard of any showstoppers yet | 19:07 |
| zaitcev | notmyname: No. Latest is 1.7.6. | 19:07 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:07 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: I'd love to chat at the summit about how to potentially do that more often (ie for each swift release) | 19:08 |
| notmyname | we had 18 sessions proposed for our 8 slots at the summit. I think all of you have proposed at least one session | 19:08 |
| notmyname | but since there is no more room left in the official schedule for oveerflow slots, I've got to schedule 8 of the proposals. I'm planning on signing up for unconference sessions on tuesday as soon as I get to PDX. | 19:09 |
| notmyname | it's first-come-first-server as far as I know, so I'll try to be early :-) | 19:09 |
| notmyname | the goal will be to write in our overflow sessions | 19:10 |
| cschwede | when does the unconference signing start? | 19:10 |
| notmyname | just about all of the proposals have been great. things that various people in the community have been asking for and talking about | 19:10 |
| notmyname | ttx: ^? | 19:10 |
| zaitcev | I'm ok with going into an overflow session, but I leave on Thursday. | 19:11 |
| ttx | Monday morning. Usually people start signing up a bit later | 19:11 |
| ttx | And most general incubaton wanabees should go on monday | 19:11 |
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| notmyname | I've got stuff going on (ie other talks and meetings) on wednesday and thursday, so I'll be shooting for tuesday time slots | 19:11 |
| ttx | so you should be able to get most of tuesday without too much issues | 19:11 |
| ttx | but some grouping and merging couldn't hurt. Each session is 40min long | 19:12 |
| notmyname | I should point out for the official record that the lack of scheduling space is not something that could have been predicted based on previous summit participation. we generally matched our slots 1:1 for previous summits | 19:12 |
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| dfg | hello | 19:13 |
| notmyname | yay, dfg! | 19:13 |
| dfg | sorry for being late and stuff | 19:13 |
| notmyname | np. thanks for coming | 19:13 |
| notmyname | dfg: can you give a status update on QA? | 19:13 |
| dfg | um- i'll go ask | 19:13 |
| notmyname | dfg: thanks. basically, it comes down to 1) stop everything we can't release 2) looks ok 3) we need an rc3 with one or 3 more backports | 19:14 |
| * notmyname is hoping for 2 | 19:14 | |
| notmyname | for the official summit sessions, I'm planning on performance-related talks and API-related talks. these are 2 of the big things that I think we'll be working on over the next 6 months | 19:15 |
| Shree | I have a question regarding the Grizzly API doc release, are the Grizzly API docs ready and are the post on wiki the final released version? | 19:15 |
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| notmyname | Shree: I think that'd be a question for annegentle and the doc team. AFAIK, yes | 19:16 |
| Shree | yes ping her but waiting for her response | 19:16 |
| notmyname | unfortunately, a focus on performance and API work will mean that other really cool stuff will be pushed to the unconference | 19:16 |
| Shree | BTW, +1 for performance. is it uconf session or part of the summit? | 19:17 |
| notmyname | I've "preapproved" all of the talks in order that each of you can still prepare your session, even if I can't promise a time slot | 19:17 |
| notmyname | Shree: we've got 4 sessions related to performance that I'll target for the official time slots, I think | 19:17 |
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| notmyname | sorry for the confusion some of you got from having sessions approved, refused, approved | 19:18 |
| zaitcev | I've already beated my preso on my coworkers but the main part is a discussion and decisions how to proceed. | 19:18 |
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| notmyname | zaitcev: ya, I want your LFS talk too :-) | 19:18 |
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| dfg | notmyname: regression is passing, there's still a couple smallish features he's testing. CORS, tempurl fix, couple other things. | 19:19 |
| notmyname | are there any questions about the summit of scheduling or what to expect? | 19:19 |
| notmyname | dfg: cool, thanks. do you have an ETA? like today or next week? or ...? | 19:19 |
| dfg | i don't know. our QA situation has gotten pretty annoying because they're pulling our guys off onto other projects. nothing i can do about that though | 19:20 |
| notmyname | if there are no questions about the summit, are there questions about anything else? | 19:20 |
| ogelbukh | notmyname: does replication network fall into performance? ) | 19:21 |
| notmyname | dfg: I understand. thanks for letting me know. | 19:21 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: no :-( | 19:21 |
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| ogelbukh | ok, thanks ) | 19:21 |
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| notmyname | I'm hoping we can do some code review for the repl network patch and perhaps get it merged next week. | 19:22 |
| notmyname | so it looks like our time window is closing for the release and we'll do a final release for grizzly this evening (dfg) | 19:23 |
| notmyname | ttx: ^ | 19:23 |
| notmyname | ah. almost forgot | 19:23 |
| ttx | notmyname: sounds good. Just push the Final=True review when you're happy wit hit | 19:23 |
| notmyname | ttx: will do | 19:23 |
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| ttx | notmyname: the common release will be out by the time you ge tup | 19:24 |
| notmyname | our "Every two week" meeting means that our next meeting will be scheduled for the wednesday of the summit. I propose that we skip it | 19:24 |
| ttx | unless shit happens in some othe rproject, but unlikely at htis point | 19:24 |
| notmyname | ttx: ok | 19:24 |
| clayg | notmyname: or move it to a bar | 19:25 |
| swifterdarrell | clayg: ++ | 19:25 |
| ogelbukh | ) | 19:25 |
| notmyname | let's just schedule all our sessions there :-) | 19:25 |
| zaitcev | oh god, no, those are so noisy, you cannot multicast worth anything | 19:25 |
| zaitcev | I managed a bunch of 1:1 in San Antonio bars but it's a PITA | 19:26 |
| notmyname | I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity for free booze next week | 19:26 |
| notmyname | err..two weeks | 19:26 |
| portante | whew | 19:26 |
| notmyname | so if there's nothing else, let's call the meeting. 30 seconds..... | 19:27 |
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| clayg | see ya'll in a couple weeks! | 19:27 |
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| chmouel | looking forward to it! | 19:27 |
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| notmyname | thanks again for coming. dfg, if anything comes up this afternoon, please let me know ASAP | 19:28 |
| notmyname | see you in portland | 19:28 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 3 19:28:24 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-04-03-19.02.html | 19:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-04-03-19.02.txt | 19:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-04-03-19.02.log.html | 19:28 |
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| sdake | #startmeeting heat | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 3 20:01:39 2013 UTC. The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:01 |
| sdake | #topic rollcall | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
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| asalkeld | o/ | 20:01 |
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| stevebaker | stevebaker | 20:02 |
| zaneb | yo | 20:02 |
| jpeeler | hey | 20:02 |
| hanney | hi | 20:02 |
| Slower | o/ | 20:02 |
| fsargent | hi | 20:02 |
| sdake | hi | 20:02 |
| sdake | looks like we have enough for a meeting | 20:03 |
| sdake | #topic blueprint review | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint review (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
| sdake | we have a ton of blueprints, many more then we can get through in this meeting | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:03 |
| sdake | I'd like for folks to start thinking about them | 20:03 |
| sdake | and how it relates to our other items of docs and tempest integration and general unit test improvements | 20:04 |
| sdake | lets get rolling | 20:04 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/resource-type-route | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | maybe possible thanks to this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-l3-routes | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | that seems contained | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | I think you can set attributes on a quantum router to specify routes | 20:05 |
| sdake | jpeeler looking to get more involved in quantum | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | need a quantum developer to provide some examples though | 20:06 |
| sdake | looks like a good opportunity | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | yep | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:06 |
| sdake | hey spam we are just doing bp reviews | 20:06 |
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| SpamapS | excellent, sorry for the tardy, other meeting went long | 20:06 |
| sdake | happens all the time ;) | 20:07 |
| sdake | stevebaker would you mind putting that link in the blueprint to help jpeeler get rolling | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | its already a dependency of the blueprint | 20:07 |
| sdake | cool | 20:08 |
| sdake | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/moniker-resource | 20:08 |
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| asalkeld | so I started this | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | but at the time the moniker client was a wip | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | so halted | 20:09 |
| sdake | ok well then I'll unapparove it | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | this could be 2 separate blueprints, native moniker, and route53 resource types | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | also zaneb suggested moniker could keep the resourcees | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, -1 | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | too many bp | 20:10 |
| zaneb | I'm still in favour of that, but I expect we probably will still have to implement it for them | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | makes life difficult | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | ok, still native + route53 would be good though | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:10 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/raw-template-db | 20:11 |
| sdake | this seems like a could add if we were out of other work to do, which is not the case | 20:12 |
| sdake | so I'll set priority to low | 20:12 |
| zaneb | tbh I think it's time we just cleaned that up | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | I think that should be rejected, template is parsed so early in the process these days that there is no raw to store | 20:12 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: huh? we only ever store the template raw | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: not raw yaml. it is parsed then serialized to json | 20:13 |
| zaneb | right, but that's not what the raw_template table is | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | well imagine a case were a cloud provides standard templates | 20:14 |
| zaneb | it's called that because we used to also store the parsed template | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | wouldn't it make sense to try save space? | 20:14 |
| zaneb | i.e. after parameter subsititutions and stuff | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | and store the template once | 20:15 |
| zaneb | and we got rid of the parsed template because it was unnecessary state | 20:15 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: we do only store the template once | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | well this is suggesting not doing that | 20:15 |
| SpamapS | I think having the actual template submitted, not the parsed one, is incredibly useful for developer workflow where they can ask for the current running template and review the diff. | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | that won't go away | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | If its all parsed templates then the diff they're looking at is not the code they wrote. | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: a structural diff might be more helpful anyway | 20:16 |
| zaneb | I'm not following this discussion at all. This blueprint is about the fact that what should be a Column in the database is actually a separate table. | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | That BP is just suggesting moving the template into the main stack table as a blob right? | 20:16 |
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| stevebaker | yeah, that seems harmless, and low priority | 20:17 |
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| zaneb | SpamapS: parsed templates are completely ephemeral, we parse them on demand and there is no user access to them | 20:17 |
| SpamapS | I'd say measure the latency of calls and define a target. If the latency is too high, this would be just one of many things (some less impactful) to do to bring it down. | 20:17 |
| sdake | latency in heat is not an issue with current openstack design | 20:18 |
| zaneb | I don't care about latency, but I care about maintainability of the code | 20:18 |
| sdake | so even more reason to make low priority | 20:18 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: sounds like it should be a bug, not a blueprint. | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | I am not sure priorty really matters, it what the devs want to work on | 20:19 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: as I've said before, the distinction is entirely specious ;) | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | lets move on | 20:19 |
| * zaneb blames Shuttleworth | 20:19 | |
| zaneb | asalkeld: +1 | 20:19 |
| sdake | well for the moment i'll keep priority low | 20:19 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/quantum-security-group | 20:20 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: blueprints are good for keeping users unaware of the problem and unable to comment.. ;) | 20:20 |
| zaneb | lol | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | that change can be resurrected now that feature freeze is over | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | next! | 20:21 |
| sdake | stevebaker you indicated good progress on this blueprint, interested in handing off to jpeeler? | 20:21 |
| sdake | guess not ;) | 20:21 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/rest-xml | 20:21 |
| * jpeeler will take any quantum stuffs that people are willing to give up | 20:21 | |
| stevebaker | jpeeler: you could have a crack at rebasing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22280/ and see if it still applies | 20:21 |
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| asalkeld | I think we should just use pecan+wsme | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | should we wait until a user actually asks for xml, then give it a higher priority? | 20:23 |
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| asalkeld | that handles a range of serialization | 20:23 |
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| SpamapS | who actually wants XML? | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | there is a bp for that | 20:23 |
| sdake | tend to agree with stevebaker nobody cares for xml | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | George Reese | 20:23 |
| zaneb | I assumed we needed it because all the other APIs have it | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | The TOSCA bits that are being discussed will satisfy the XML lovers. | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | glance doesn't | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | I say let he who requests XML implement it :) | 20:24 |
| zaneb | if nobody wants it then I'm more than happy to kill it | 20:24 |
| * zaneb never wanted to implement it anyway | 20:24 | |
| sdake | spamaps +1 | 20:24 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: +5 | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-August/000857.html | 20:25 |
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| sdake | jay makes alot of sense there | 20:26 |
| zaneb | agree | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | that's why pecan+wsme is good | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | it does the conversion for you | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | you don't have to do anything | 20:27 |
| sdake | ok lets move on | 20:27 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: there would be work to massage the data though (see discussion in the blueprint) | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | I'll read | 20:28 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/raw-template-db | 20:28 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/function-plugins | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | didn't we just do that one? | 20:28 |
| sdake | wrong cp ;) | 20:28 |
| zaneb | I started on this, but didn't get very far | 20:29 |
| zaneb | distracted by other work | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | I think if we get a new format this gets less important | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | we could have a solid aws format and a pluggable native one | 20:29 |
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| sdake | I believe one thing we are struggling with is helping to define priorities as a team | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | should it be a depencency for these https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/bash-environment-function https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/template-string-function | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | or just merge them | 20:30 |
| sdake | would everyone be open to voting on setting "Design to approved" before working on the code | 20:30 |
| zaneb | I don't know if we're doing a new format or what it would look like, so it's very hard to comment | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, that was just a thought | 20:31 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: not necessarily, we can add those natively | 20:31 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: i.e. not using plugins | 20:31 |
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| stevebaker | sdake, I wouldn't be keen on that process. it might discourage some interesting experiments | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | yea lets not add more process than we need | 20:32 |
| SpamapS | sdake: I think that "Approved" merely means "pay attention to this, the project is on board" not "go ahead and work on it" | 20:33 |
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| asalkeld | I think a problem with bp is they are a requirements/request view ; we then need a design/development view | 20:33 |
| sdake | spamaps it seems to mean to most folks "go crazy its a blueprint" :) | 20:33 |
| zaneb | so, Approved could be a useful signal for people looking at which blueprints to implement first | 20:34 |
| zaneb | wouldn't want to treat it as gating though | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | Indeed, the history of that particular value is that in the Ubuntu process teams sponsored Canonical would submit the specs to team managers and they would be approved for dev time.. | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | for an autonomous project like heat, its way too heavy | 20:35 |
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| asalkeld | yip | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | lots of overlapping blueprints | 20:36 |
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| asalkeld | sdake i think you can kill this one : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/cloud-init-metadata-section | 20:38 |
| sdake | done | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | actually, that sounds interesting | 20:39 |
| sdake | too late now ;) | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | oh well ;) | 20:40 |
| sdake | this is how voting would help us move through blueprints | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, you could always redo it | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | sdake, can you ask the tech committee how they handle bp tsunamis in their projects? | 20:41 |
| sdake | yes that is a great suggestion stevebaker | 20:41 |
| sdake | thanks | 20:41 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/prebuilding-images | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | wow that's old | 20:42 |
| jpeeler | i thought that was killed a long time ago | 20:42 |
| sdake | ya should be killed off | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | brought over from github | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | yea +1 - kill | 20:43 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/rolling-updates | 20:43 |
| SpamapS | That spec needs updates to be compatible with Amazon's rolling updates | 20:43 |
| SpamapS | but in general I'm suggesting going more anyway | 20:44 |
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| asalkeld | this seems odd (maybe kill it) -> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/pulgins-way-to-resource | 20:44 |
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| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/abstract-aws | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | savana could use Heat without any special resource types | 20:46 |
| sdake | abstracting aws seems like a good idea | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | sure | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | there are some separate bps for specific native resource types | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | well it will be interesting how the native format goes | 20:47 |
| SpamapS | I think abstract-aws can be broken up into a few efforts | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | yep | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | if we get that then almost no point to this | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | native resources, doc fixes, and code reorg | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: I think native format is just yaml + native resource types :) | 20:48 |
| zaneb | not sure abstract is the right word here | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | can we kill this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/stack-id-to-scheduler-hints | 20:49 |
| zaneb | but operators should be able to disable the built-in resources types | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: partition? | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | should we spend some time talking about tomorrow's docsprint? (today for me) | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | bifurcate? | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | oh tomorrow is doc sprint? Count me in. (missed meeting last week) | 20:49 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: I got nothing | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | just have a map {'aws::*: disabled} | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: I'll work on a better word before teh summit | 20:50 |
| sdake | #topic docsprint | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docsprint (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:50 | |
| * ttx lurks | 20:50 | |
| sdake | so stevebaker brings up a good point | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | we need some word items | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | and direction (format etc..) | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | s/word/work | 20:50 |
| sdake | I think what would make sense is a docsprint on 4/4 for US and 4/5 for NZ/AU | 20:51 |
| stevebaker | I could write the cli guide, zaneb keen to do the api-ref? | 20:51 |
| sdake | that way we can follow each other's work | 20:51 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: yep, that seems like a good idea | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | what else is there? | 20:52 |
| sdake | #topic open discussion | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:52 | |
| stevebaker | someone needs to do the heat-admin. but I think the missing manual that we all need to help on is the template writing guide | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | I assume in yaml? | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | snippets in both formats I guess | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | that's a pain | 20:53 |
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| sdake | #undo | 20:53 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x32ac250> | 20:53 |
| sdake | lets hold off on the full template guide | 20:54 |
| sdake | that is months of work | 20:54 |
| SpamapS | I'd recommend snippets in yaml, as it is meant for readability | 20:54 |
| sdake | and things may change after summit | 20:54 |
| stevebaker | maybe we could have a crack at the skeleton structure, so we know what we're in for | 20:54 |
| zaneb | well, I think we should autogenerate as much as possible | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | well we can do something basic | 20:54 |
| sdake | there we go, skeleton structure | 20:54 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: +1 | 20:54 |
| zaneb | I believe stevebaker already made a blueprint for that | 20:55 |
| SpamapS | sdake: I do feel like writing the guide, before having 100% native resource types, is a bit suspect | 20:55 |
| sdake | spamaps I agree | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: that still leaves a lot of tutorial style stuff though | 20:55 |
| zaneb | that's true | 20:55 |
| zaneb | and that's a good place to start | 20:55 |
| SpamapS | so, skeleton with the current native types well documented would be a pretty good goal | 20:55 |
| SpamapS | also another goal for a doc sprint: *test* the docs | 20:55 |
| SpamapS | as in, do everything it tells you to do | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: once we have a docs, new features will need to be flagged for DocImpact | 20:56 |
| sdake | ok 4 minutes left | 20:56 |
| sdake | moving to open discussion now | 20:57 |
| sdake | #topic open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:57 | |
| sdake | we got through 10 blueprints in this meeting, just to review them | 20:57 |
| zaneb | sdake: so it's open slather for delivery of Havana features now? | 20:57 |
| sdake | we have 40 more to go | 20:57 |
| * zaneb is working on parallel launch | 20:57 | |
| sdake | ya we can start development now | 20:58 |
| stevebaker | if someone is vaguely interested in an unassigned blueprint they should assign it to themselves | 20:58 |
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| ttx | sdake: still good to go for tagging the release tomorrow ? | 20:58 |
| sdake | ttx yes | 20:58 |
| ttx | Shall be done around 1500 UTC | 20:58 |
| stevebaker | actually, I should release python-heatclient too | 20:59 |
| ttx | expect some bugmali while I move stuff to final milestone in LP | 20:59 |
| ttx | bugmail* | 20:59 |
| sdake | ttx will watch for it | 20:59 |
| sdake | our meeting time is over, so ending meeting enjoy ;) | 20:59 |
| sdake | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 3 20:59:50 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-04-03-20.01.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-04-03-20.01.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-04-03-20.01.log.html | 20:59 |
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