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| Guest17639 | o/ | 15:06 |
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| jaypipes | #startmeeting qa | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 31 17:00:26 2013 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | good morning QAers | 17:00 |
| afrittoli | good morning | 17:00 |
| chunwang | hi | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: morning | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | lots of open reviews :( | 17:01 |
| *** mlavalle has joined #openstack-meeting | 17:01 | |
| * jaypipes bad for not being able to do reviews :( | 17:01 | |
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| chunwang | why not being able to do reviews? | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: w$rk getting in the way :) | 17:02 |
| ravikumar_hp | hi | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | ravikumar_hp: heey | 17:03 |
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| davidkranz_ | Here | 17:03 |
| mlavalle | Hi | 17:03 |
| * jaypipes hoping that afazekas or davidkranz_ might be able to bring me up to speed on what's gone on in tempest over past week. | 17:03 | |
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| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Mostly a lot of new code submitted. | 17:04 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: And the formal proposal from sdague to gate all projects (except horizon) on full tempest. | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | yes, I saw that | 17:04 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: I'm not sure why the reviews have piled up but we should discuss that. | 17:05 |
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| mtreinish | davidkranz_: afazekas has pushed >50% of the current queue | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: lack of reviewers/approvers is my guess ;) | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | I'm sure that has something todo with it | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | indeed! | 17:05 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Yes, but the question is why? | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: people working on other things, I assume | 17:06 |
| davidkranz_ | Speaking for myself, I don't know anything about the boto stuff so did not feel I could review it. | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | understood | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | #topic performance of tempest | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "performance of tempest (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:07 | |
| jaypipes | I'd like to get an update from sdague and others about the testtools conversion and improvments in performance. | 17:07 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: OK, but I want to go back to the review topic later. | 17:07 |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: sdague can't make it today | 17:07 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: do you have enough info about the topic to speak on it? | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: unfortunately, not really. I know that the testtools conversion got merged, but I don't know about the status of testr | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | ok | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | we will leave that to next week then | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | #topic Reviews | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:09 | |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: I also don't know much about the Boto stuff which is why it's been difficult to do for me. | 17:09 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Tempest has become very broad. | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: yes indeed. | 17:10 |
| ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: our team is writting boto tests for Ec2 . | 17:10 |
| ravikumar_hp | Jaypipes: do you think developers can review | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | ravikumar_hp: which developers? | 17:10 |
| ravikumar_hp | Nova dev team that supports Ec2 .. | 17:11 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: I think we need to subdivide into groups that can review particular topics. | 17:11 |
| davidkranz_ | Or in some cases not try to verify every aspect of the tests which involves detailed understanding of the api. | 17:11 |
| ravikumar_hp | davidkranz_: +1 | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | ravikumar_hp: tough to identify those people... | 17:11 |
| davidkranz_ | This is not ideal but we need to change something. | 17:11 |
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| davidkranz_ | How about this: | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: perhaps we just need to institute tempest review days | 17:13 |
| davidkranz_ | If a submission goes more than 24 hours with no review, some one with less specific knowlege can review it. | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: anyone should be able to review any patch at any time... | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: if the reviewer is not a subject matter expert, they can still comment on style, robustness, and other things. | 17:15 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Right. So we could say that a core review +1 means "style, etc" is OK but not verified all the functions. | 17:15 |
| davidkranz_ | But what if no one feels comfortable giving a +2? | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | sure, that makes total sense, and that's pretty much what I've been doing | 17:16 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: OK, then the issue may be (lack of) review days. | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: if nobody feels comfortable +2ing then we need to bring in the devs from Nova and other projects to make a decision | 17:16 |
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| davidkranz_ | So how long should a submitter expect to wait for an approval? | 17:17 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: but I still think review days are upon us | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: right now... upwards of a week, which is unacceptable | 17:17 |
| davidkranz_ | I would like a 24 hour turnaround ideally. | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: we should endeavour to keep it <48 hours IMHO | 17:17 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: for at least an initial comment on the review | 17:17 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Do you know how review days are set up on other teams? | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: in addition, adding more people to oepnstack-qa-core would be helpful. | 17:18 |
| ravikumar_hp | davidkranz_: jaypipes: yes . better less tahn 24 hrs as many reviews go through 4 or 5 patches | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: it's up to the PTL in other dev teams... | 17:18 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: OK, just looking for an example to follow. | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: I think we need to have weekly review captains to herd everyone and get reviews pushed | 17:19 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Yeah. Is there a way to "request review" if you are not the submitter? | 17:19 |
| davidkranz_ | The button doesn't seem to work. | 17:19 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: if it doesn't work, it's a bug and notify mordred | 17:20 |
| * afazekas here | 17:20 | |
| davidkranz_ | That's what the captain needs to do | 17:20 |
| davidkranz_ | The button works if I am the submitter but I can't add a reviewer to some one else's change. | 17:20 |
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| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Grr, I think I misunderstood the UI. Never mind. | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: k | 17:21 |
| davidkranz_ | Should we maintain the captain list in an etherpad or wiki? | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: yes, I think so. | 17:21 |
| ravikumar_hp | davidkranz_: I was able to add reviewers .. | 17:21 |
| davidkranz_ | ravikumar_hp: I misunderstood the UI. | 17:22 |
| ravikumar_hp | in UI for others submission | 17:22 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: so I would propose: 1) increase number of people on openstack-qa-core, 2) have weekly review captain on rotation, and 3) have qa-core members assigned to review days of week. | 17:22 |
| chunwang | BTW, what's the qualification to be a patch reviewer of tempest? | 17:23 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Sounds good. | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: nothing. | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: anyone is encourage to do reviews | 17:23 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: I would also have an entry for each project where people can put their names as knowing something about it. | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: however only members of openstack-qa-core can +1 Approve a patch. | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | sorry, +2 Approve... | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: excellent. can you handle creating those pages? | 17:23 |
| ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: +1 , 1) 2) is fine | 17:24 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: That list could be use by the captain to add reviewers when necessary. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: ++ | 17:24 |
| davidkranz_ | Sure. Etherpad is easier to edit but wiki is less subject to screwup. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | ty | 17:25 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: I'll go with the wiki. | 17:25 |
| jaypipes | k | 17:25 |
| chunwang | jaypipes: got it | 17:25 |
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| jaypipes | OK, so there are a number of folks that could be proposed to qa-core... I will be watching over the next couple weeks for folks who are actively doing reviews and following up. and I will propose those folks for qa-core | 17:26 |
| jaypipes | I will send out an email shortly saying that. | 17:26 |
| davidkranz_ | ravikumar_hp: Can you guys review the boto stuff today? | 17:26 |
| ravikumar_hp | davidkranz_: will try . | 17:26 |
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| davidkranz_ | Guess I'm captain this week :) | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: indeed | 17:27 |
| ravikumar_hp | davidkranz_: do you have the review id/subject handy ? | 17:28 |
| afazekas | davidkranz_: link ? | 17:28 |
| davidkranz_ | ravikumar_hp: There are several of them in the queue. | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: I think davidkranz_ is talking about your boto patches | 17:29 |
| davidkranz_ | mtreinish: That's right. | 17:29 |
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| afazekas | davidkranz_: ok, I thought I forget to review one change .. | 17:30 |
| davidkranz_ | afazekas: We need to review your changes. | 17:30 |
| davidkranz_ | afazekas: You are doing a lot of stuff and it would help is there were blueprints that provided some context for reviewers. | 17:31 |
| afazekas | davidkranz_: small changes | 17:31 |
| jaypipes | email sent... | 17:32 |
| afazekas | davidkranz_: bug fix and reformating mostly | 17:32 |
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| davidkranz_ | afazekas: I understand but we need to be careful about changing code just because we like it better a different way. | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: Along this note, I meant to ask if any of the reformats are related can you put them in a series with the same branch. Even just that would help with the context. | 17:33 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: ++ | 17:33 |
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| davidkranz_ | Any other topics? | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz_: there is the coverage analysis I've been doing | 17:36 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: none from me. I'm eager to get on reviews... | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | I sent a mail out to the list about it | 17:36 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: oh yeah... how is that going? | 17:36 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: now these changes are mostly independent, but mostly have second step, but these next step codes are even not created | 17:36 |
| Shree_Quantum_HP | davidkranz_: yes we will like to discuss more about it | 17:37 |
| mtreinish | https://etherpad.openstack.org/coverage-analysis and https://etherpad.openstack.org/MissingTempestTests | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: I don't understand that last comment... could you explain? | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: ah, well done. | 17:37 |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: it's going well, I've found some gaps, mostly on negative tests | 17:37 |
| mtreinish | I'm still not done, but this what I've found so far | 17:38 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: I modified lot of different unrelated part of the tempest , without marking the comment to dependent to each other | 17:38 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: that makes reviews quite difficult... | 17:38 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: As I said the bug fix commits will be continued some code cleanup | 17:38 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: can I fix multiple unrelated bugs in one commit ? | 17:39 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: yes | 17:39 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: but only if they are small... | 17:39 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: can I do code reformatting and reorganization, in bugfix commit ? | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: what I was saying is that it is difficult to review stuff that is *both* fixing a bug AND changing formatting or style because you prefer something some different way in the code | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: In addition, commit messages must be more descriptive :) | 17:41 |
| davidkranz_ | afazekas: I think code reorganizations should be discussed before code is submitted for review if it is significant. | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20683/ | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: Fixes *what* about boto intialization? | 17:41 |
| afazekas | now all bot test are skipped | 17:42 |
| afazekas | boto | 17:42 |
| davidkranz_ | Reorganization is expensive both to reviewers and in lost knowlege of where things are and how they work. | 17:42 |
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| jaypipes | afazekas: what I am saying is that you need to make the commit messages more descriptive, otherwise reviewers don't really understand what the patch is attempting. | 17:42 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: And why. | 17:42 |
| afazekas | OK | 17:43 |
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| afazekas | May be it was obvious just for me :) | 17:44 |
| chunwang | for the ssh related test, I suppose they will be impacted when quantum applied, since the host cannot ping vm directly in quantum. Is there any change on the way to fix this? | 17:44 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: yes, always err on the side of being TOO descriptive :) | 17:44 |
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| jaypipes | chunwang: I'm sorry, I'm not catching you... | 17:45 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: what about Quantum prohibits a VM from being reachable via SSH? | 17:46 |
| chunwang | yes | 17:46 |
| mlavalle | chumwang: no, it doesn't | 17:47 |
| chunwang | after quantum applied, the network related execution should add network uuid, since they are in different namespaces | 17:47 |
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| chunwang | like "ping <vm ip>" should be "ip netnc exec <network uuid> ping <vm ip>" | 17:49 |
| chunwang | ssh is similar... | 17:49 |
| jaypipes | hmm, I think we will need some documentation about that... | 17:50 |
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| jaypipes | OK, do we have any further discussion before we wrap up? | 17:51 |
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| jaypipes | OK, wrapping up... | 17:52 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 17:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 31 17:52:32 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-01-31-17.00.html | 17:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-01-31-17.00.txt | 17:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-01-31-17.00.log.html | 17:52 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 31 18:00:01 2013 UTC. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | #info Welcome security group! | 18:00 |
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| bdpayne | In our meeting last week, we were a bit rushed at the end, so I wanted to pick up there and see if there was any discussion | 18:00 |
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| bdpayne | But first, one quick house keeping item | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | #topic LXC Security Note | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LXC Security Note (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
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| bdpayne | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/osn/+bug/1098582 | 18:01 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1098582 in osn "Note: Security impact of Libvirt/LXC usage" [High,Confirmed] | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | #info This security note is about ready to go, looking for final comments and then we'll release it. | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | Any comments / discussion on the note? | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | Hrm, before I continue… do we have people attending the security meeting? | 18:04 |
| mtesauro | You're talking about the note here https://bugs.launchpad.net/osn/+bug/1098582 right? | 18:04 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1098582 in osn "Note: Security impact of Libvirt/LXC usage" [High,Confirmed] | 18:04 |
| Chris___ | Yes, i am here for security meeting | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | high, yes, that's the one | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | great, glad to see some folks here | 18:05 |
| lauraglendenning | I'm here as well | 18:05 |
| mtesauro | The final version (2013-01-23) looks fine to me | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | ok, thanks | 18:05 |
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| mtesauro | Is that some sort of markdown/asciidoc-ish markup or just nice text formatting on the ###'s | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | #info If anyone has further feedback on the note, please get it in by the end of the day today | 18:06 |
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| bdpayne | I think that's markdown | 18:06 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Storage Encryption | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Storage Encryption (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:07 | |
| mtesauro | Cool. We should probably note that somewhere in case someone want to consume and format the notes externally | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | ok, let's pick up where we left off last week | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | sure, makes sense mtesauro | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | #info There are two open proposals for different kinds of storage encryption right now | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | #info object encryption (swift) by Intel | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift/+spec/encrypted-objects | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | #info volume encryption (cinder) by APL | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/encrypt-cinder-volumes | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | has anyone reviewed these? any discussion, thoughts, comments, etc? | 18:09 |
| Chris___ | i have not reviewed. still trying to get my bearings in this community. :) | 18:09 |
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| mtesauro | I haven't gotten to that yet but its on my short list. Should have comments by next meeting | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | np, I actually have some thoughts one where people can participate and help out | 18:09 |
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| bdpayne | ok, sounds good… I think that storage encryption is useful and a nice addition to openstack | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | I've certainly heard from lots of users that it is desired | 18:10 |
| Chris___ | agree. i think it will really help build confidence in user community | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | I wonder if there's utility is trying to get some symmetry between these two proposals | 18:10 |
| Chris___ | if done well, that is | 18:10 |
| rellerreller | Both of them involve key managers, so that should be discussed at some point | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | or if it is better to wait and do that later | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | indeed | 18:11 |
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| bdpayne | #action Let's all try to review these and think about how they will fit together over the next week | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | any other thoughts on storage encryption? | 18:12 |
| Chris___ | do we have a security policy in mind which describes threats we are, and are not, trying to address with encryption? | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | good question | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | the short answer is no | 18:12 |
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| bdpayne | but I did provide some comments on the APL proposal this morning, asking questions about just that | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | this is another area where I think it would be useful to get some alignment between the proposals | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | and, really, for openstack at large | 18:13 |
| rellerreller | We received the feedback. Thank you. | 18:13 |
| Chris___ | yes, in my experience, security policy should be precursor to any evaluation discussion | 18:13 |
| mtesauro | it is nice to know the problem that we're trying to solve with encryption | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | coming up with a general security policy for all of openstack would be a huge project | 18:14 |
| Chris___ | don't have to boil the ocean | 18:14 |
| Chris___ | just deal with encryption for now. | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | but, I do agree that some more crisp understanding of the threats being addressed is good | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | yeah, agreed | 18:15 |
| Chris___ | maybe a good topic for upcoming summit? | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | #action Let's refine the security models for the storage encryption schemes | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | sure | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | I always like to see more security discussion at the summit | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | :-) | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | #topic Open Discussion | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:16 | |
| Chris___ | in the meantime, i will try to review the proposals | 18:17 |
| rellerreller | Any feedback would be much appreciated | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | #info so I wanted to open up the discussion a bit to see what other security related things are on people's minds and where the group can help | 18:17 |
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| bdpayne | there is one that has caught my attention | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | #info python code in rootwrap | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/nova-rootwrap-python-exec | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | based on what I saw at the last summit, I think that there's probably a lot of security work going on within openstack | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | and probably a lot going on in silos | 18:19 |
| Chris___ | ... probably at differing levels of competency. | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | well, sure… hopefully that's where we can help | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | where has everyone been involved to date? | 18:20 |
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| Chris___ | i am still very new to group and am still in (rapid) learning mode | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | np | 18:21 |
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| bdpayne | this is something worth thinking about for everyone | 18:22 |
| noslzzp | Is there a project that addresses overall security status from instrumentation and/or integrity point of view? | 18:22 |
| noslzzp | (also new to the group, btw) | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | not sure what you are getting at with that question | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | but, in terms of openstack, we are the only active security effort that I'm aware of … and we're just getting started ;-) | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | there is the vulnerability management team, but they are more reactive | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | (a good thing, but complementary) | 18:23 |
| noslzzp | Example: given a particular compute node, is there any finger printing of the configuration state? | 18:23 |
| mtesauro | I've been testing the OpenStack implementation at Rack - mostly dynamic testing of API's as well as code reviews, etc. | 18:24 |
| mtesauro | Some infrastructure work as well but mostly in the AppSec space. | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | ok, great | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | that's certainly a big piece of what I think is needed | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | fuzzing, code review, blueprint review, etc | 18:24 |
| noslzzp | i agree. | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | #topic Next Steps | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next Steps (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:24 | |
| bdpayne | #info So, I wanted to call out a few specific places where I think people can help today | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | 1) we need help putting together the hardening guide | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | #link https://github.com/hyakuhei/OSSG_Hardening_Guide | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | First steps there are reviewing the outline.txt file and then helping to write sections | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | Anyone that is interested, please drop me a line and I'll get you engaged | 18:26 |
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| bdpayne | 2) I'd like to see about pairing OSSG members with the core projects | 18:26 |
| rellerreller | Is there a timeline when things are planned to be done for the hardening guide? | 18:27 |
| rellerreller | When do you want feedback by? | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | This way we can more easily track where the security problems are, and bring information back to the group about when code reviews are needed, etc | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | I'd like to get the hardening guide in some alpha form by the summit | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | And it will surely continue to grow from there | 18:28 |
| rellerreller | ok | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | So, if you are already engaged in a core project, then perhaps you could be the OSSG rep | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | just a liaison between the projects | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | if you aren't, but are interested, then perhaps start getting engaged and see if it's a good fit | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | #topic Final Words | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Final Words (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:29 | |
| bdpayne | anything else? | 18:29 |
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| noslzzp | Has anyone looked at what the DISA STIGs provide? We can probably embrace and extend quite a bit from there. | 18:29 |
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| bdpayne | I have not, but perhaps you can send some pointers? | 18:30 |
| Chris___ | nor i. | 18:30 |
| noslzzp | #link www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/os/redhat/rhel5-guide-i731.pdf (RHEL) | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | ok, we can continue discussion via email, on the dev channel | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | thanks guys | 18:31 |
| Chris___ | one question. | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 31 18:31:12 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-01-31-18.00.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-01-31-18.00.txt | 18:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-01-31-18.00.log.html | 18:31 |
| Chris___ | hello? | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | Chris___ sure soot | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | er shoot | 18:31 |
| Chris___ | have we/you though about voice telecoms? (newbie question) | 18:31 |
| Chris___ | thought | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne | IRC seems to be the way for openstack meetings | 18:32 |
| Chris___ | hmmm... seems a bit cumbersome. | 18:32 |
| bdpayne | telecom could be useful in addition, but there are many benefits to IRC | 18:32 |
| Chris___ | yes, irc great for impromptu small groups | 18:32 |
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| mordred | jaypipes: what did I do? | 20:27 |
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| garyk | gilad_: hi | 20:55 |
| gilad_ | hi | 20:55 |
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| hemna | nova meeting? | 21:01 |
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| garyk | hope so | 21:01 |
| hemna | are we all waiting for reviews? :P | 21:02 |
| dansmith | hemna: what review are you waiting for? | 21:03 |
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| hemna | Fibre Channel support | 21:03 |
| dansmith | hemna: link? | 21:03 |
| hemna | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19992/ | 21:03 |
| dansmith | I'll see if I can find something wrong with it to make you happy :) | 21:03 |
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| hemna | :) | 21:03 |
| dansmith | vishy: around? | 21:04 |
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| garyk | dansmith: is there the nova meeting now? | 21:06 |
| dansmith | garyk: supposed to be, but vishy and russellb don't seem to be around | 21:06 |
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| hemna | crickets | 21:07 |
| dansmith | who all is around with grievances to air? not much point in doing it if the principals aren't around, but if we need to do it, we can | 21:07 |
| dansmith | garyk: did you have something to discuss or are you just hanging out? | 21:08 |
| dansmith | the agenda looks sparse to me | 21:08 |
| dansmith | garyk: oh are you ensembles? | 21:08 |
| garyk | dansmith: we wanted to discuss the vm groups | 21:08 |
| garyk | yeah, the ensembles | 21:08 |
| dansmith | okay | 21:08 |
| dansmith | well, presumably with more than just me and hemna :) | 21:08 |
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| hemna | hehe | 21:09 |
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| garyk | you guys are welcome to take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19906/ (a review for a review) | 21:09 |
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| kmartin | I'm here but I work with hemna :) | 21:09 |
| krtaylor | dansmith, can't you just use the # startmeeting command so we get this logged? | 21:09 |
| dansmith | kmartin: hrm, then -1 for you :) | 21:09 |
| dansmith | krtaylor: yes, but I'm trying to figure out if it's worth having without vishy or russellb | 21:09 |
| krtaylor | ah, ok | 21:10 |
| dansmith | sounds like probably not | 21:10 |
| kmartin | dansmith: heh | 21:10 |
| garyk | russellb: is on a plane. so i guess he will not attend | 21:10 |
| dansmith | garyk: I say we give them five more minutes and then call it on account of the fifteen minute rule ;) | 21:10 |
| dansmith | garyk: that wouldn't stop a dedicated developer... | 21:10 |
| garyk | ok. np. | 21:11 |
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| hemna | garyk, looks like you are going to add more to this patch? | 21:11 |
| dansmith | okay now, if you guys are going to chat about it, we better actually do it :) | 21:12 |
| garyk | hemna: not sure at the moment. originally i though that i had to, then after looking at the cell code i do not think that i need to | 21:12 |
| dansmith | #startmeeting nova | 21:12 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 31 21:12:11 2013 UTC. The chair is dansmith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:12 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:12 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:12 |
| dansmith | #topic vm-ensembles | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "vm-ensembles (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:12 | |
| vishy | sorry guys | 21:12 |
| dansmith | yay | 21:12 |
| dansmith | #chair vishy | 21:12 |
| openstack | Current chairs: dansmith vishy | 21:12 |
| vishy | i just ran out for lunch an i was late | 21:12 |
| garyk | bon apetite | 21:12 |
| hemna | we are just complaining about reviews in here anyway | 21:12 |
| hemna | :P | 21:12 |
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| vishy | who all is here? | 21:13 |
| dansmith | hemna: man, you really know how to get people to review your stuff, huh? | 21:13 |
| hemna | dansmith, I was just joking | 21:13 |
| vishy | i don't see comstud or markmc | 21:13 |
| vishy | well lets discuss ensembles anyway | 21:14 |
| garyk | where should we start? | 21:14 |
| vishy | i think the biggest request so far is to identify what you can't do with the current scheduler data | 21:14 |
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| vishy | i.e. why is different_host not enough | 21:14 |
| garyk | as we have shown in the document it is best that scheduler has the whole picture and does not doe it in a pience meal fasion | 21:15 |
| garyk | (sorry it takes me a while to write) | 21:15 |
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| garyk | there can be cases when the scheduling could lead to false negative admission control | 21:16 |
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| garyk | more specifically when the host capacity allocation is high | 21:16 |
| garyk | the best way to do this is do have the scheduler make a "group" scheduling decision. | 21:17 |
| kmartin | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bAMtkaIFn4ZSMqqsXjs_riXofuRvApa--qo4UTwsmhw/edit (for the new people) | 21:17 |
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| garyk | we provide a solution which uses anti affinity to ensure server fault tolerance | 21:18 |
| garyk | sorry, host fault tolerance | 21:18 |
| vishy | garyk: so the question is: is that small failure scenario enough to warrant the extra complication | 21:18 |
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| vishy | garyk: it will still have to have some pretty smart logic in how to schedule the whole group and deal with all sorts of weird race conditions | 21:19 |
| vishy | garyk: so it may not even be feasible to do so | 21:19 |
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| garyk | vishy: we feel that this can occur, the false negative, quite often. | 21:19 |
| garyk | especially when the host allocation capacity is high | 21:20 |
| dansmith | hmm, I thought the goal of this stuff was something different, other than fault tolerance | 21:20 |
| garyk | there are 2 goals: | 21:20 |
| garyk | we started with high availability via anti affinity | 21:21 |
| garyk | and we are strving to add network proximity to improve performance | 21:21 |
| garyk | so it will be HA and performance | 21:21 |
| garyk | HA and performance are the major aspects of service level or quality of service | 21:22 |
| garyk | vishy: the proposed solution lowers the chance of problems. it does not prevent them complete;ly | 21:23 |
| vishy | i'm not totally convinced that it is better to do this via complicating the scheduler vs doing simple hints and try, retry | 21:23 |
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| glikson | in fact, I think the proximity scenario (e.g., for HPC or Hadoop workloads) is a rather strong case to require group scheduling, which can not be easily achieved with sequential provisioning.. | 21:24 |
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| vishy | glikson: but in that case why not just do a hint for host aggregates | 21:24 |
| vishy | I think trying to make the scheduler too smart will lead to a lot of hard to find bugs | 21:25 |
| glikson | well, how would you ensure that the first instance is provisioned in a location wit henough capacity "nearby"? | 21:25 |
| vishy | glikson: you wouldn't | 21:25 |
| vishy | if there isn't enough capacity it would fail and try again | 21:25 |
| garyk | vishy: all of the inaformation can be passed by hints. the sceduling hould just be done at one time. | 21:25 |
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| glikson | vishy: how retries would help? wouldn't the weighting function return the same result? | 21:26 |
| vishy | garyk: i suppose we already do group scheduling, can we do this by just using the currentmulti_boot code? | 21:27 |
| vishy | as in simply change how instances are allocated when you do -n 5 | 21:27 |
| garyk | vishy: this is possible. one would just need to know when the group ends. | 21:27 |
| vishy | that seems simple enough | 21:27 |
| vishy | garyk: nova boot -n 5 --hint same-network | 21:28 |
| vishy | or something like that | 21:28 |
| garyk | vishy: there are 2 issues with this | 21:28 |
| garyk | 1. this is done with the same type of vm's and does not cater for heterogenous groups of vms (like we provided in the document) | 21:29 |
| garyk | 2. the current implementation does not have anti affinity support for the group opertaion (which is a very simple patch) | 21:29 |
| vishy | so i would suggest we do 2 first | 21:30 |
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| garyk | i think that the first case has more weight in the sense that if thescheduler has the whole pcture then it can make te best decision. | 21:30 |
| vishy | that seems like an obvious win | 21:30 |
| vishy | then i guess we need to support passing multiple requests in together | 21:30 |
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| garyk | #2 is similar t what has already been implemented int he proposed review. | 21:31 |
| vishy | russellb: isn't really here to complain :) | 21:31 |
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| garyk | it just extends that to be more than one group | 21:31 |
| garyk | russellb: is on a plane | 21:31 |
| vishy | can you link the review btw? | 21:31 |
| garyk | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19906/ | 21:31 |
| garyk | we are sitting at -2 due to not supporting cells. but i think that it does support cells (i need a claficication from chris) | 21:32 |
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| dansmith | shall we move on? | 21:35 |
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| garyk | dansmith: can we just continue with one more issue | 21:35 |
| dansmith | garyk: if you've got one, it just seemed like the conversation had faded out | 21:36 |
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| garyk | i was wondering if we need to talk about storing the group information. the initial plan was to store it int he meta data | 21:36 |
| vishy | aye | 21:37 |
| vishy | ok we will wait for comstud | 21:37 |
| garyk | what i am trying to say is that we need to store the group information | 21:37 |
| vishy | garyk: why do we need to store it? | 21:37 |
| garyk | vishy: we need to store it for future use. | 21:38 |
| garyk | vishy: that is future rescheduling of vm's that need to comply with the policy | 21:38 |
| glikson | or adding more VMs that should comply to the same policy (group elasticity) | 21:38 |
| garyk | an example of this is host maintenace. when moving the avtice vm's we should still strive for the network proximity an affinity | 21:39 |
| vishy | garyk: ok we need to save hints as well in that case | 21:39 |
| glikson | garyk: host maintenance is a bit sensitive topic now, if you follow the review on it :-) | 21:40 |
| vishy | storing it in system_metadata seems ok | 21:40 |
| garyk | vishy: that works for us at the moment. | 21:40 |
| vishy | #link novaclient/shell.py | 21:40 |
| vishy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19906/ | 21:40 |
| vishy | #action comstud to give feedback on cells | 21:40 |
| vishy | #action initial patch to simply extend multi-boot to schedule with hint | 21:41 |
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| vishy | #Info initial patch to simply extend multi-boot to schedule with hint | 21:41 |
| garyk | vishy: for that we will need first and last (i.e. be able to do with heterogenous vm's) | 21:42 |
| vishy | #info later patches to add support for heterogeneous guests | 21:42 |
| vishy | garyk right either first and last or pass the whole list at once | 21:42 |
| vishy | personally thinking the whole list at once will be cleaner | 21:42 |
| vishy | ok lets move on | 21:42 |
| garyk | vishy: ok. thanks! | 21:43 |
| vishy | #info http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/Nova | 21:43 |
| * dansmith added to the agenda a minute ago | 21:43 | |
| vishy | #topic Full Tempest Gate | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Full Tempest Gate (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:43 | |
| vishy | sdague: around? | 21:43 |
| dansmith | vishy: so, this is me fighting sdague's battle | 21:43 |
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| dansmith | vishy: he wants you to go +1 that patch :) | 21:43 |
| dansmith | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/MissingTempestTests | 21:43 |
| vishy | that is very cool | 21:44 |
| dansmith | dammit | 21:44 |
| dansmith | what is wrong with me and my link pasting? | 21:45 |
| dansmith | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20762/ | 21:45 |
| dansmith | I'm like some sort of blabbering idiot this week.. must be the post-vacation syndrome | 21:45 |
| hemna | what's a vacation? | 21:46 |
| dansmith | vishy: see the +1, thanks, we can move on now :) | 21:46 |
| vishy | so anything else to discuss there | 21:46 |
| dansmith | not if you're good with it | 21:46 |
| vishy | that is a pretty short list for missing tests | 21:46 |
| vishy | tempest has come a long way | 21:47 |
| dansmith | they're coverage-based missing tests :) | 21:47 |
| vishy | #topic Grizzly-3 review | 21:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly-3 review (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:47 | |
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| vishy | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:48 |
| vishy | only 50 blueprints! | 21:48 |
| vishy | :o | 21:48 |
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| vishy | so mainly it is review review review | 21:48 |
| dansmith | no-db-compute is getting really damn close | 21:48 |
| vishy | if there are any that you know aren't going to make it let me know | 21:49 |
| vishy | dansmith: don't forget about set-password | 21:49 |
| vishy | :) | 21:49 |
| dansmith | vishy: yeah,. it's on the list | 21:49 |
| hemna | I'm trying to do more reviews of other folks' stuff to help out | 21:49 |
| vishy | also we lost our volunteer for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multi-boot-instance-naming | 21:49 |
| vishy | so if anyone wants to grab the patch and clean it up... | 21:49 |
| dansmith | vishy: help me reduce my to-be-reviewed queue and I'll get to it sooner :D | 21:49 |
| vishy | i would also really like https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-block-device-handling to make it | 21:50 |
| vishy | there has been a lot of discussion on the ml | 21:50 |
| vishy | i also see that there are 3 new unapproved bps | 21:51 |
| kmartin | vishy: what's the process for cinder folks helping with nova reviews? | 21:51 |
| vishy | this one needs reviews https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/optimize-nova-network | 21:51 |
| vishy | kmartin: feel free to review stuff | 21:52 |
| vishy | i'm going to try and do lots of reviews over the next few days | 21:52 |
| hemna | thanks for the suggestions, I'll look at those as well fwiw | 21:53 |
| dansmith | I did a bunch today hoping to win karma for my own patches :) | 21:53 |
| dansmith | most of which are just a single tick away | 21:53 |
| vishy | #topic bugs | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:54 | |
| kmartin | vishy: ok, should we just comment or give out -1 or +1 without have a bunch of experience in nova I don't want to step on anyones toes? | 21:54 |
| vishy | #link http://webnumbr.com/untouched-nova-bugs | 21:54 |
| vishy | we are going up a bit | 21:54 |
| vishy | so we need to remember to review those | 21:54 |
| dansmith | not too bad for this point in the cycle though, it seems | 21:54 |
| vishy | kmartin: always give +1 -1 if you feel it is appropriate | 21:54 |
| vishy | also we have lots of bugs in novaclient | 21:54 |
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| vishy | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-novaclient/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New | 21:55 |
| vishy | free cookies | 21:55 |
| vishy | :) | 21:55 |
| vishy | please help triage | 21:56 |
| vishy | i realize we will be switching focus to bugs soon but lets not let it get too far | 21:56 |
| vishy | #topic open discussion | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:56 | |
| vishy | anything else? | 21:56 |
| cburgess | vishy: I would like to discuss https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deferred-instance-deletes if possible. | 21:56 |
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| cburgess | We have been working on a draft review for it based upon how we implemented it in our essex product. | 21:57 |
| vishy | cburgess: ok shoot | 21:57 |
| cburgess | Wanted to see if anyone has any opinions on the blueprint before we post the review. | 21:57 |
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| cburgess | At preset we are implementing 2 flags. | 21:57 |
| cburgess | 1 to control turing it off/on and another to specifty the location to store the deleted instances. | 21:58 |
| vishy | cburgess: i don't see the benefit of a new option over the current soft delete implementation | 21:58 |
| cburgess | its up to each driver to implement support. We have a periodic job in the manager to do the cleanup that again each driver that wants to support it needs to implement. | 21:58 |
| cburgess | Current soft deleted does not cover the 2nd and 3rd condition we outline in the blueprint. | 21:58 |
| cburgess | Errors arrising from live migrations and user issuing a "stop" and "start" action via the API. | 21:59 |
| vishy | condition 3 doesn't exist anymore | 21:59 |
| vishy | stop and start doesn't delete the instance | 21:59 |
| cburgess | Ahh ok cool. We shall remove that then. | 21:59 |
| cburgess | It doesn't re-image anymore? | 21:59 |
| vishy | so i would prefer solving condition 2 by another means | 21:59 |
| vishy | cburgess: no it just powers off the vm | 21:59 |
| cburgess | Excellent. | 21:59 |
| cburgess | Hmm well I guess we could add some logic into the post migrate to do an m5sum on the disk images or something before cleaning up on the source. | 22:00 |
| vishy | cburgess: i would repurpose your stuff as configuring how long to keep the vm around during migrate | 22:00 |
| vishy | if it is a real issue | 22:00 |
| vishy | md5 sum would be a great idea, but since it is live... | 22:00 |
| vishy | they won't match | 22:00 |
| cburgess | We've seen it happen a few times. Usually it involves also triggering some type of kvm/qemu or libvirt bug the result is the same, data gets nuked. | 22:01 |
| vishy | cburgess: so we should keep migrated disks around for a while | 22:01 |
| cburgess | Yeah thats the issue I was thinking. I don't know of a truly unique fingerprint/checksum we could use on the disk. | 22:01 |
| vishy | cburgess: or... | 22:01 |
| vishy | we could force a resize_confirm like we do with non-live migrate | 22:01 |
| cburgess | vishy: I suppose we could extend soft delete to also cover migrated. Only issue there is we couldn't use the DB record since the instance isn't in a soft deleted state. | 22:01 |
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| cburgess | vishy: I will take a look at resize_confirm and see what it provides. | 22:02 |
| vishy | cburgess: we've been discussing reorganizing the migrate code so resize/migrate share code with live/block migration | 22:02 |
| vishy | so if we do that | 22:02 |
| vishy | then we can force a confirmation step on block migrate as well | 22:03 |
| vishy | although i hate having to work around qemu/libvirt bugs like that :) | 22:03 |
| vishy | anyway we should probably end the meeting | 22:03 |
| vishy | cburgess: you have enough to go on? | 22:03 |
| cburgess | vishy: I'm not a fan of working around bugs either but we simply can't loose our clients data if we can prevent. | 22:03 |
| vishy | #endmeeting | 22:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 31 22:04:02 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:04 |
| cburgess | vishy: Yeah I can do some more research and see what we find. | 22:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-01-31-21.12.html | 22:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-01-31-21.12.txt | 22:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-01-31-21.12.log.html | 22:04 |
| vishy | cburgess: in the short term if you just want to keep files around for block migration i think that is fine | 22:04 |
| cburgess | vishy: I'm going to take a look at the resize_confirm code and how that works. Could be sufficient. I'm just not that familiar with the resize code as we don't use it. | 22:05 |
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