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| jgriffith | Cinder meeting? | 16:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| bswartz | did g-1 get released? | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: sure did | 16:03 |
| bswartz | this page says unreleased: https://launchpad.net/openstack/+milestones | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | Looks like kmartin thingee bswartz avishay eharney | 16:04 |
| eharney | hi | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 28 16:04:11 2012 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:04 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:04 |
| bswartz | hello | 16:04 |
| kmartin | hi | 16:04 |
| avishay | hi | 16:04 |
| eharney | hello | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: The official cut is hopefully tomorrow | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: the mail list has quite a bit of info/discussion/updates | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: The cut date however has passed and we got everything for cinder in that we wanted | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | alrighty... I didn't update the meetings wiki this week.... sorry about that | 16:06 |
| *** jdbarry|away is now known as jdbarry | 16:06 | |
| jgriffith | I just had a couple of things then I'll open it up for everybody else | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | #topic FC update | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "FC update (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:06 | |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Have any updates for us? | 16:06 |
| kmartin | working on the code will add the details on Friday to the spec | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Ok... is the code up on github or somewhere that we can get a preview? | 16:07 |
| kmartin | did you see hemna question yesterday regarding the the need to enter a nova bp or not for the linvirt changes? | 16:07 |
| kmartin | libvirt | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I did not see that I don't think | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: But yes, there would need to be BP's for the nova side as well if that was the question | 16:08 |
| * thingee gives bad advice, sorry guys! | 16:08 | |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Was that the question? | 16:08 |
| kmartin | basically, do we need to enter a bp for the libvirt changes on the nova side or just reference the cinder bp in the commit | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I'd do a BP for the Nova side and reference it as required for the Cinder BP | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: make sense? | 16:09 |
| kmartin | ok, will do that | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | cool | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | alright... anything else on the subject? | 16:09 |
| kmartin | I hope we don't have to go through legal again | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: me too :) | 16:10 |
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| kmartin | :) | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: If that's a risk we can talk offline | 16:10 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: ok thanks | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Stupid to tie things up for another period of weeks for that silly crap | 16:10 |
| kmartin | I agree | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | alright... well, let me know how that shapes up | 16:10 |
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| kmartin | sure, will do | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | and if you can get the code public sooner rather than later that would be good too | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: thanks | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | #topic LIO target | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LIO target (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:11 | |
| jgriffith | eharney: :) | 16:11 |
| eharney | hi there | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | eharney: So first sorry if I misundersood your initial intent there | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I think that doing an LIO version of iSCSI is the right way to start | 16:12 |
| eharney | it's ok... so, it sounds like the current leading idea is to do a targetcli-based one first | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I think that's the right way to go | 16:12 |
| *** jcooley is now known as jcooley_afk | 16:12 | |
| jgriffith | eharney: I'd like to start with that as the iscsi subclass like we talked about | 16:12 |
| eharney | i don't see any problem with that from my end | 16:12 |
| eharney | right | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: Then I'd like to see how things might shape up for a full remote driver for Grizz | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | eharney: That use case is particularly interesting IMO | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | eharney: Remote LVM boxes :) | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | eharney: But I think phasing it and learning as we go might be good | 16:14 |
| eharney | this makes sense to me | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | eharney: great | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | eharney: anything else you want to bring up with folks? | 16:14 |
| eharney | my only real issue i've found was that targetcli may need some work, but it shouldn't be anything too bad | 16:14 |
| eharney | i don't think so | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | eharney: what kind of *work*? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | eharney: error reporting etc? | 16:15 |
| bswartz | eharney: are you doing anything on the iscsi initiator side, or just target stuff? | 16:15 |
| eharney | yes, error reporting -- it doesn't really do it in a useful fashion for us | 16:15 |
| eharney | i.e. never returns codes, only prints colorful messages | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | eharney: hmm... yeah that was one of the concerns that somebody mentioned on the ML | 16:15 |
| eharney | bswartz: just the target side | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | eharney: well, depending it might be a good opportunity to improve tgt-cli as well :) | 16:16 |
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| eharney | the alternative was to interface with python-rtslib rather than targetcli, but it has a different set of issues | 16:16 |
| eharney | since it's library code that expects to run as root, and doesn't really fit in the rootwrap scheme well | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | eharney: yeah, that didn't seem *ready* IMO | 16:17 |
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| eharney | well, targetcli uses that library | 16:17 |
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| eharney | but yes, i think i have a good plan to go forward for now | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: Ok, keep us posted | 16:17 |
| eharney | ok | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | eharney: thanks! | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | #topic capabilities reporting | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "capabilities reporting (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:18 | |
| jgriffith | So we started talking about this a bit | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to propose we start moving forward with what is on the etherpad | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | https://etherpad.openstack.org/cinder-backend-capability-report | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | It's been idle with the exception of a few things I added this morning | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | I'd like to start implementing this and we can always tear it apart in review if folks aren't happy with it | 16:19 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: is this going to be a new driver entrypoint to be consumed by the scheduler? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: the capabilities? | 16:19 |
| bswartz | yes | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: Could be I suppose | 16:20 |
| bswartz | what else is it intended for? | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: The goal for me right now was to be able to report back to a user what a back-end can do | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Well... a user but more importantly the API | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: One example is the 'online_clone' parameter | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: unless someobdy has a better idea for how to store/report that sort of thing? | 16:21 |
| bswartz | by "user" do you mean "end user" or "administrator"? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: might be either... | 16:21 |
| avishay | jgriffith: with something like "online_clone", what would a user do with that knowledge? | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: There are cases for both | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: That's not a good example :) | 16:22 |
| avishay | :) | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | avishay: That's more for use by the API and Manager IMO | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | avishay: The user would just get an error message if they tried to do a clone of an attached volume if it was False | 16:23 |
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| avishay | So what's a good example of something the user should be aware of? I think the manager/scheduler should be making most/all of these decisions | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | avishay: actually.. I thnk you're correct | 16:23 |
| bswartz | it seems like users should be kept in the dark about driver capabilities (because there may be multiple drivers, and the administrator doesn't want them to know) and the administrators could get everything they need from the driver documentation | 16:23 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: agreed | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | so correct my wording above.... | 16:23 |
| bswartz | the scheduler seems to be the main consumer of the this API as far as I can see | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | The goal for me anyway was the ability to do things in the manager and API | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: sure, ok | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: so just to clarify... | 16:24 |
| bswartz | okay, I like the idea of a capabilities API so that schedulers can make smarter decisions | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: The intent was to have a methods in the drivers to query and return this info | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: Ok, sounds like we all agree at least at a high level | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: avishay think we need to get some code up to get in to the details | 16:26 |
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| gregjacobs | greetings | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Any other thoughts on this? Anything horrible on the etherpad, or anything obviously missing? | 16:26 |
| avishay | jgriffith: this is very closely tied to the filter scheduler that's under review, right? | 16:27 |
| bswartz | well unless we can see other users for the API, I think we should design the API around things that we know the scheduler will be able to make use of | 16:27 |
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| bswartz | and it probably ties in with volume_type_extra_specs | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yes, there's potential for that | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: yes | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | So I think there's a number of possibilities this opens up | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | anyway... just wanted to make sure we had at leat general agreement to move forward on it | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | s/leat/least/ | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: So to be clear I had not intended a *new* API | 16:29 |
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| avishay | what about support for modifying a volume's type? (obviously not for the first pass) | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: I dunno... interesting, but what's the use case for that? | 16:30 |
| avishay | jgriffith: tiering, for example | 16:30 |
| avishay | move a mostly idle volume to slower, cheaper disks | 16:30 |
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| bswartz | avishay: would modifying the volume's type just change the metadata, or actually move the volume to new storage? | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ahh... a migration | 16:31 |
| avishay | maybe within a back-end, maybe across back-ends | 16:31 |
| avishay | possibly migration | 16:31 |
| bswartz | migration could get complicated | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah... so that's an interesting one that I thought through and *thought* I had a solution for but maybe not | 16:31 |
| bswartz | especially cross-backend | 16:31 |
| avishay | if the same back-end supports the new capabilities, it could do some transformation | 16:31 |
| avishay | bswartz: nothing worth doing is easy :) | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | avishay: My thought was that for same back-end you leave the type (the type can define the back-end actually) | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | avishay: extra specs could be used for the different levels | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: this works really well for the tiering/moving that you described IMO | 16:32 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: the way volume_types are today, it's up to the administrator | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | avishay: The question I was still dealing with is whether it's an active admin operation, or part of the audit to check for changes in the extra_specs | 16:33 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: Yes, and I think it should stay that way | 16:33 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: a backend can have multiple volume_types and a volume_type can map to multiple backends | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: I think if that's how someobdy wants to implement it that's fine | 16:33 |
| avishay | like i said, we don't need to figure this out right now, but it could be nice for the future | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Or I should say *utilize* i8t | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | it | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | avishay: Actually I have plans for this very thing in G3 so we'll talk about it in the new year :) | 16:34 |
| avishay | jgriffith: OK cool - anything written? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | avishay: somewher... | 16:34 |
| bswartz | migration is certainly a good idea -- but I don't think we'll be able to do anything so simple as changing the volume_type and then getting the right thing to happen | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'll throw together a google-doc or etherpad in the next couple weeks | 16:35 |
| avishay | OK, if you come across it I'd be interested to see | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Yeah, I'm not ready to tackle the migration thing yet | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: unless it's migration within a single back-end | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'll get info out to everyone on it, but it's not time criticial right now | 16:36 |
| avishay | bswartz: at first we'll probably need to mount both volumes on a server and dd from old to new | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ewwwwwww | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:36 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i said "at first" :) | 16:36 |
| bswartz | avishay: that would be the lowest common denomiator case | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 16:36 |
| avishay | yes | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | ok... I think we've covered that sufficiently for now. Let's move on | 16:36 |
| avishay | OK, this isn't urgent - we can move on | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | #topic G2 workload | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "G2 workload (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:37 | |
| jgriffith | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | so check out the BP list | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | note the assignments... | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | It's a bit lop-sided :( | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | I'd really like to see folks step up and help with some of these. | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | particularly the API enhancements, we've assigned almost all of them to thingee | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | While he can do it and won't complain we don't want to take advantage of him either ;) | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | So if you can.. work with thingee and find ways to help him out on these | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | there's a ton of work here and I also suspect we'll come up with more to add in the next couple weeks | 16:39 |
| thingee | or buy me a beer at the next summit :) | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | Another thing to keep in mind on G2... | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | So I made the mistake on G1 of scheduling everything up until the schedule date | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | Remember that a few days before we go in to lock-down | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | and the candidate gets cut | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | so we loose a couple days there | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | Then... add in the holidays | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | So realisticly we're almost looking at Christmas we need to have a pretty good handle on these | 16:41 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: I can speak for hemna, still good progress... going through the final review process(yep... with HP legal) for the 3PAR array driver. | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: ok... sounds good | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | So if somebody is assigned something here and they don't think they're going to work on it let me know earlier rather than later | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | and again, if you wanna help out, sync up with whoever is assigned and see what you can do to help | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | anybody have any questions/concerns on the G2 proposals thus far? | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | cool... | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | #topic NAS support | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "NAS support (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:44 | |
| jgriffith | So there wasn't near as much interest on the ML as I had anticipated | 16:44 |
| bswartz | what were you anticipating? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | but regardless, I think if bswartz and folks want to work on this it's useful | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: response from more than the three people that I'd already heard from on the subject :) | 16:45 |
| bswartz | yeah it seems like a small number are really excited about it | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Yeah, and I think it's useful/good soo... | 16:46 |
| bswartz | others either don't care or aren't willing to speak up | 16:46 |
| avishay | this is support for file in addition to block? | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yup | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: So I'd like to re-iterate my proposal for an iterative path on this | 16:46 |
| avishay | i missed it on the ML i guess. | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Start with enhancing/improving the NFS driver that you guys already worked on | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: we don't *have* to export it as iscsi if there's time to change it | 16:47 |
| bswartz | so the NFS driver is unrelated to the NAS stuff | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: how so? | 16:47 |
| bswartz | well -- I guess it's a matter of perspective again | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | ;) | 16:48 |
| bswartz | the 2 features don't overlap code-wise whatsoever | 16:48 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: I guess what I'm suggesting is that maybe they should | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: In other words rather than start with everything under the sun, why not build up a usable NAS driver in Cinder | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: We can work on that to use connection info other than iscsi as well | 16:49 |
| bswartz | the NFS-based drivers can do everything they need to do inside of a driver, with some modifications on the nova side that have already been made | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: CEPH is a good example here | 16:49 |
| bswartz | the NAS support that we're proposing is really about delivering CIFS/NFS directly to the guests | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Yup, and that's what I was eluding to in terms of the provider_location and connection info changes | 16:50 |
| bswartz | or if cinder is being used outside of OpenStack (as some are doing) then delivering CIFS/NFS to whatever | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: So I had proposed one of two directions... | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Either a Driver model (which I still think can be done pretty well) | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: or | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: A seperate service in Cinder | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: the seperate service is in everybodys best interest for a number of reasons | 16:51 |
| bswartz | what would a seperate service in cinder mean? | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: So use Nova as an example | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: Inside nova we had: compute, networking, volumes | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | so I'm saying in Cinder we have: block, NAS | 16:52 |
| bswartz | okay, I think that's a good model conceptually | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: it keeps the seperation of topics that I was concerned about | 16:53 |
| avishay | i think that sounds good | 16:53 |
| avishay | +1 | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: It also makes things gateable/testable, and if done right it makes life easier for a break out later | 16:53 |
| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | this is weird, we're all agreeing on something NAS related :) | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | or.. I should say, *I'm* agreeing :) | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: it's a bit of work, but I think it's worth the effort | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: if we're going to do this, we should do it as well as possible | 16:55 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: we still need to get together to talk, and I'd like to understand what kind of structural changes to the code would allow it to be "a seperate service in cinder" with the reduced risks you mention | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: sure | 16:55 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: maybe later today we can skype or something | 16:55 |
| bswartz | it's a question of at what level we seperate blocks and NAS | 16:55 |
| avishay | this meeting may be scheduled too early in the west coast and too late in europe/ME/asia - people are too tired to be confrontational :) | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | avishay: HaHa!! | 16:56 |
| * jgriffith realizes they're on to him | 16:56 | |
| avishay | :) | 16:56 |
| bswartz | we're all programmers -- we have caffeine to counter tiredness | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: hehe... so true | 16:57 |
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| jgriffith | Ok.. anything else on this topic we have to address right now? | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | #topic LVM | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LVM (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:57 | |
| jgriffith | One other thing I wanted to touch on real quick | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | I started looking at some of our LVM/dd issues again and it sucks | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | particularly throughput to an LVM volume that has a snapshot is horrid | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | if anybody has any tricks up their sleeve or ideas they've been kicking around on this please let me know | 16:59 |
| bswartz | Is it the LVM code that's slow or the way the I/O goes to disk? | 16:59 |
| bswartz | put another way: would it still suck if an SSD was used intead of spinning rust? | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: it's more of the way LVM snapshots work than anything else | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Yeah, pretty much | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: because when there's an LVM snap you're going through an exception table for every write and mapping it to the correct device etc | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | bunch of overhead there | 17:00 |
| bswartz | perhaps LVM is not the right base for the generic driver then? | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: correct | 17:00 |
| avishay | what's the status of the re-write going on for the kernel component of LVM? is that done? it was supposed to support thin provisioning and have better snapshot support | 17:00 |
| avishay | i stopped tracking it a while ago | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I've been looking at that a bit, but the results aren't that much better TBH | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | avishay: the thin-provisioning itself is still compelling though | 17:01 |
| avishay | jgriffith: OK, disappointing | 17:01 |
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| avishay | what other options are viable? | 17:01 |
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| jgriffith | Really I could live with all of this EXCEPT for the kernel bug | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | remember the dd on delete kernel hang.... | 17:02 |
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| jgriffith | Anyway, I wanted to just sort of throw this out again for folks to think about | 17:02 |
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| jgriffith | #topic free for all | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "free for all (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 17:02 | |
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| jgriffith | speak up if you have something :) | 17:03 |
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| bswartz | can LIO help with the above problem? | 17:03 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: funny you should ask that :) | 17:03 |
| bswartz | if we had a LIO driver could we wire it up to some less-sucky backend? | 17:03 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: I had this crazy idea of using LIO with a file back instead of LVM | 17:03 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: but I don't thnk that would fly in a production env | 17:04 |
| bswartz | you still need to get snapshot support somehow | 17:04 |
| avishay | jgriffith: that's what i thought too | 17:04 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: So with LIO you can literally use a file as your storage, but it's recommended to use LVM | 17:04 |
| avishay | btrfs? too immature? | 17:04 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 17:04 |
| bswartz | what if you used LIO with a file-based storage, but you used a more powerful filesystem like BTRFS? | 17:04 |
| eharney | i was just thinking about btrfs too, as a longer goal... | 17:04 |
| jgriffith | avishay: eharney BTRFS has been my latest, but I've read mixed results on how ready it is | 17:05 |
| jgriffith | avishay: eharney I'm still willing to investigate it a bit | 17:05 |
| eharney | it appears to be pretty rough around the edges still from what i understand | 17:05 |
| avishay | is it still being actively worked on? unfortunately i lost touch with my kernel roots a bit | 17:05 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: it is, but seems to have lost some of it's appeal from what I've been seeing | 17:06 |
| eharney | avishay: i think there is active development ongoing, yes | 17:06 |
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| bswartz | NetApp actually implements LUNs as files inside our storage controllers, and all of the power comes from the filesystem used | 17:06 |
| bswartz | if BTRFS was more production ready I think it would make a great solution | 17:07 |
| avishay | bswartz: so everyone should just buy netapps ;P | 17:07 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 17:07 |
| bswartz | YES~ | 17:07 |
| bswartz | YES! | 17:07 |
| jgriffith | I was thinking NetApps should be free! | 17:07 |
| russellb | i would totally test it out if you wanted to send me a free one. | 17:07 |
| jgriffith | So I have considered making RBD the ref implementation but I dunno... that's a big switch | 17:08 |
| russellb | that applies to all storage vendors in the room :-p | 17:08 |
| jgriffith | russellb: :) | 17:08 |
| avishay | :) | 17:08 |
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| jgriffith | alright... we're over, and nobody bit on the RBD thing so let's wrap up for now | 17:09 |
| avishay | have the kernel issues been reported? any response? maybe moving to something else is a bit hasty? i don't know the history | 17:09 |
| * jgriffith fishes, fishes, fishes | 17:09 | |
| jgriffith | avishay: Oh yes, it's reported and there is some work on it but very slow progress | 17:09 |
| jgriffith | avishay: You're correct, I may be being very hasty | 17:09 |
| avishay | is RBD more mature than btrfs? | 17:09 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: if ceph was packaged by the distros and stable then I'd say it was a reasonable idea | 17:09 |
| zykes- | any FC news ? | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | avishay: well, I believe so... but the real tie in there is it's already an OpenStack option | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | zykes-: You missed it, check the logs | 17:10 |
| avishay | OK, I need to go - 10 minutes over - see you all next week! | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | alright folks, I've kept you 10 over already | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | thanks everybody | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | catch me on IRC if you need anything or have further questions | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:11 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 28 17:11:05 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:11 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: thanks | 17:11 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-28-16.04.html | 17:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-28-16.04.txt | 17:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-28-16.04.log.html | 17:11 |
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| Kiall | #startmeeting DNSaaS | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 28 18:00:39 2012 UTC. The chair is Kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'dnsaas' | 18:00 |
| Kiall | Hiya | 18:01 |
| Kiall | Everyone here? | 18:01 |
| Kiall | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DNSaaS | 18:01 |
| * CaptTofu is prsent | 18:01 | |
| Kiall | #topic Current Status | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current Status (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)" | 18:02 | |
| Kiall | Okay - Lets get going.. I think we're a few people short, but we'll go on without them :) | 18:02 |
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| Kiall | So - We skipped the last official meeting, and instead had a impromptu meeting in #openstack-dns instead.. | 18:03 |
| Kiall | What came from that (since there are no logs, and not everyone was there) was: | 18:03 |
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| Kiall | 1) Hold off any plans for incubation until the TC and Board come to a decision over the recent incubation discussions | 18:04 |
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| Kiall | 2) There was some discussion of switching out Flask for X.. The decision was to hold off, and only consider a switch to something if it lands in openstack-common / oslo | 18:04 |
| Kiall | 3) The agent service should be made optional to provide a better fit for DNS servers like PowerDNS+MySQL, where an agent is not required on the server itself | 18:05 |
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| Kiall | That was about the bones of it, if my memory serves my right | 18:06 |
| CaptTofu | yes | 18:06 |
| CaptTofu | #3 - what does that mean exactly? | 18:06 |
| CaptTofu | #3 being of interest to me since getting mysqlbind agent working | 18:06 |
| Kiall | So - We have various Backend implementations - bind9, powerdns, bind9mysql etc | 18:06 |
| CaptTofu | it seems like we have that currently, really? | 18:06 |
| Kiall | Those classes should be loadable into either the moniker-agent service, OR the moniker-central service | 18:07 |
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| Kiall | and a new "RPC" backend would be written that is loaded into moniker-central for those using the moniker-agent service | 18:07 |
| CaptTofu | what does that mean for moniker-central? That moniker-central does some of the work for a given backen? | 18:07 |
| Kiall | There should be no code changes needed in the agents to make it work.. | 18:07 |
| CaptTofu | right. | 18:08 |
| Kiall | So - Say your using PowerDNS+MySQL | 18:08 |
| Kiall | moniker-agent, as written today, does nothing more than talk to MySQL.. And only a single copy is needed for the entire pool of DNS servers (since they all read the MySQL DB) | 18:08 |
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| Kiall | The end result is added complexity of an extra RPC stage and extra service | 18:09 |
| CaptTofu | ah, via replication | 18:09 |
| Kiall | We can instead load that backend straight into moniker-central | 18:09 |
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| Kiall | and since the, for example, PowerDNS DB calls are relatively quick anyway, we don't really loose anything | 18:10 |
| CaptTofu | you mean moniker central calls something int he service itself? | 18:10 |
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| CaptTofu | so for instance, I have my one single table for mysqlbind - how do those changes to that table get made? | 18:11 |
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| CaptTofu | and I suppose powerdns the same thing - though not sure if you go to the db or through an API for powerdns | 18:11 |
| Kiall | For bind9+mysql, you would need to continue to use the agent service. | 18:11 |
| Kiall | Since it still requires files on disk for the zone's to be loaded | 18:11 |
| Kiall | But - The DB interaction could be done from moniker-central just once, and then the moniker-agents could just write the file out | 18:12 |
| CaptTofu | just one | 18:12 |
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| CaptTofu | ok | 18:12 |
| CaptTofu | I think I see what you mean | 18:12 |
| CaptTofu | this would be a plugin to moniker-central | 18:12 |
| Kiall | Right.. The same plugins as the agent loads.. | 18:13 |
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| CaptTofu | ok, that makes complete sense | 18:13 |
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| Kiall | So .. I plan of getting that done this week, unless someone beats me to it. | 18:13 |
| CaptTofu | yes, in all essense, the single zone file could be done outside of moniker based off of data in that table | 18:14 |
| Kiall | (well... before next week, since I'll likely only get time over the weekend) | 18:14 |
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| CaptTofu | what do you envision doing, the hooks for that plugin? | 18:14 |
| CaptTofu | the changes to moniker-central to allow for that, I mean? | 18:14 |
| Kiall | It's bascially 2 parts.. | 18:15 |
| Kiall | 1) Writing a backend that proxies messages to the RPC queue | 18:15 |
| CaptTofu | or would it make sense to take something, like I have, and do it? | 18:15 |
| Kiall | 2) Updating moniker central to, instead of calling RPC directly, load and call into a backend plugin | 18:15 |
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| Kiall | So - If central loads the RPC plugin, and the agent loads the bind9 plugin, we get something that's identical functionality wise to what we have today | 18:15 |
| CaptTofu | so, two options you mean? | 18:16 |
| Kiall | Not quite - Both would be implemented | 18:16 |
| CaptTofu | ah | 18:16 |
| Kiall | #1 is the RPC plugin mentioned in #2 | 18:16 |
| Kiall | Anyone have comments on the proposal? (andrewbogott Ryan_Lane zykes- I know your hiding there quietly ;)) | 18:17 |
| CaptTofu | ok, so central loads RPC plugin (vs. something like a mysqlbind plugin) which means an agent has to be listening vs. something that requires no RPC which means agent doesn' thave to be listening? | 18:17 |
| zykes- | :p | 18:17 |
| zykes- | not really Kiall | 18:18 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, yea exactly | 18:18 |
| Ryan_Lane | no comments | 18:18 |
| CaptTofu | in other words, RPC means there is some work outside of central that has to be done | 18:18 |
| CaptTofu | something nitty gritty like writing files? | 18:18 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, yea, like writing a zone file to disk | 18:18 |
| zykes- | Kiall: wasn't the idea to make it possible to just load a backend instead of rpc ? | 18:18 |
| andrewbogott | Yeah, it seems fine -- as long as I can ignore the agent when handling pdns I'm happy :) | 18:18 |
| Kiall | zykes-, exactly :) | 18:18 |
| Kiall | RPC would be just another "backend" | 18:18 |
| CaptTofu | but things like DB, that means we use the database connection we have | 18:18 |
| CaptTofu | how does one talk to powerdns? Directory to MySQL or through an API? | 18:19 |
| Kiall | Right .. So for the DB, JC has taken the bug dealing with connections to multiple databases | 18:19 |
| Kiall | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/moniker/+bug/1074093 | 18:19 |
| CaptTofu | s/Directory/directly/ | 18:19 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1074093 in moniker "Support multiple database connections in the SQLAlchemy storage implementation" [Medium,New] | 18:19 |
| Kiall | I had an email from him about an hour or so ago, and I think he's basically ready to propose a fix | 18:20 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, via MySQL | 18:20 |
| CaptTofu | nice, that is something I'd like to see to learn more about SQLAlchemy | 18:20 |
| CaptTofu | it's been a learning curve, and just because my mind is set in its ways | 18:20 |
| Kiall | Okay.. Next up | 18:20 |
| Kiall | #topic CLI and Python API | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CLI and Python API (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)" | 18:21 | |
| Kiall | I'm 90% happy with the PythonAPI in review #17045 | 18:21 |
| Kiall | But am not so happy with my CLI attempt.. | 18:21 |
| Kiall | And .. zykes- + andrewbogott have another implementation | 18:22 |
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| andrewbogott | Um, no, I think zykes- is working with your implementation | 18:22 |
| Kiall | You do have code up there :) | 18:22 |
| Kiall | There are bits from all 3 I like... | 18:22 |
| Kiall | But for right this minute, I wanting something so simple your grandmother could hack away at the code ;) | 18:23 |
| Kiall | I'd love some feedback on both of the current reviews.. | 18:23 |
| Kiall | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17045/ | 18:23 |
| Kiall | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17041/ | 18:23 |
| Kiall | (One is mine.. One is zykes- ..) | 18:23 |
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| Kiall | Please have a read leave some comments if you have 10 mins to spare | 18:24 |
| CaptTofu | or be able to get it to run ? :) | 18:24 |
| andrewbogott | Do either of those use osc or are they both plain old cliff? | 18:24 |
| Kiall | Use the checkout link gerrit gives you, and re-run `python setup.py develop` and both should work | 18:25 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, no, I had been scared away from osc for 2 reasons.. 1) It doesnt seem to actually be used by any of the projects.. and 2) it's seems to have 1 real committer | 18:26 |
| Kiall | I'd love if all the projects standardised... But I'm not sure things are actually heading to osc anytime soon, and I don't want to depend on something that may change at a moments notice :) | 18:26 |
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| Kiall | Either way - both osc and our implementations use cliff, porting from one to another should be fairly trivial | 18:27 |
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| Kiall | For reference in the logs.. | 18:28 |
| Kiall | #link https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/ | 18:28 |
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| Kiall | Anyone have anything else on the PythonAPI or CLI? | 18:28 |
| andrewbogott | Is there an index of minutes from previous meetings someplace? | 18:29 |
| Kiall | Yea - http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/ | 18:29 |
| Kiall | Okay.. last topic from the agenda so.. | 18:30 |
| Kiall | #topic Call for testing and bug reports! | 18:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Call for testing and bug reports! (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)" | 18:30 | |
| Kiall | I'm *dying* to stop adding features and cut a "stable" release :) | 18:30 |
| Kiall | I think we're really close, but I would love some feedback on what issues people are seeing (or not seeing!) | 18:31 |
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| Kiall | I'm usually around #openstack-dns during UTC working hours, and often on/off at some point during the UTC eventing.. Feel free to nab me if you have any Q's on getting everything up and running | 18:32 |
| Kiall | Okay.. That's all I had planned to discuss today.. Does anyone else have anything to bring up? | 18:33 |
| Kiall | #topic Open discussion | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)" | 18:33 | |
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| CaptTofu | thanks! | 18:33 |
| Kiall | Nobody? | 18:33 |
| zykes- | not much | 18:34 |
| zykes- | watching aws reinwent ;p | 18:34 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall, can I make a request about process? | 18:34 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, of course | 18:34 |
| andrewbogott | I am frustrated… because I've followed plans that were made during these meetings | 18:35 |
| andrewbogott | but informal discussion and decisions-internal-to-Kiall were made in the meantime causing lots of my work to be discarded. | 18:35 |
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| andrewbogott | Would it be possible to actually talk about these things during meetings before such directional/delegation changes are made? | 18:36 |
| andrewbogott | I don't especially disagree with any of the conclusions, I just wish I hadn't duplicated all the effort in the meantime. | 18:36 |
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| Kiall | First off.. I apologize, you're absolutely correct. There has been some (lots) of duplication of effort over the CLI etc, that shouldn't have happened | 18:37 |
| andrewbogott | Partly, I feel like DNS in Openstack has this traditional problem -- everyone writes code before discussion... | 18:37 |
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| andrewbogott | We were trying to centralize into one project but we're still writing concurrent implementations :) | 18:37 |
| zykes- | andrewbogott: the worst thing has been the cli | 18:38 |
| zykes- | don't know of others though | 18:38 |
| Kiall | Heh, yea.. we are. Though, this is one of the main reasons I've been wanting to cut a "stable" release | 18:38 |
| andrewbogott | Lemme see if I can phrase this constructively :) | 18:38 |
| Kiall | Once we have something that's actually usable - then we (I) can't make sweeping changes etc.. I think from that point on, the use of blueprints for anything major should be required | 18:39 |
| andrewbogott | I think it's awesome that Kiall is devoting so much time and leadership to this! I think a part of that leadership role, though, means catching up on email and code reviews before writing new code like mad. Does that make sense? | 18:39 |
| andrewbogott | (And, agreed, as the project matures there will be more obvious processes for new tasks.) | 18:40 |
| Kiall | It absolutely does - And I'll do my best :) | 18:41 |
| andrewbogott | cool, thanks. Again, I really do appreciate your work and love how quickly this is all coming together. | 18:41 |
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| Kiall | Okay.. So thanks all! (And sorry andrewbogott ;) ). Please email/IRC me with anything for next week.. | 18:42 |
| andrewbogott | yep! thanks all | 18:43 |
| Kiall | #endmeeting | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 28 18:43:26 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-28-18.00.html | 18:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-28-18.00.txt | 18:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-28-18.00.log.html | 18:43 |
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| asalkeld | morning heat folks | 19:58 |
| shardy | morning/evening :) | 19:59 |
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| asalkeld | #startmeeting heat | 19:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 28 19:59:32 2012 UTC. The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 19:59 |
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| asalkeld | #chair shardy zaneb | 19:59 |
| openstack | Current chairs: asalkeld shardy zaneb | 19:59 |
| stevebake | http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | #chair shardy zaneb asalkeld stevebake | 20:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: asalkeld shardy stevebake zaneb | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | well done shardy on agenda | 20:00 |
| shardy | guys, I need to head out in about 40mins so may need to leave early | 20:00 |
| stevebake | ok | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | well lets be quick | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | roll call? | 20:01 |
| zaneb | +1 on being quick ;) | 20:01 |
| shardy | here | 20:01 |
| asalkeld | here | 20:01 |
| zaneb | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebake | o/ | 20:01 |
| jpeeler | here | 20:01 |
| asalkeld | #topic packaging | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "packaging (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| asalkeld | so we need pypi ? | 20:01 |
| shardy | Yeah, so there was a request from one of the HP guys for pypi | 20:02 |
| asalkeld | do we put the package on the openstack pypi | 20:02 |
| shardy | I don't know if we need it, but it was requested | 20:02 |
| zaneb | are other openstack projects in pypi? | 20:02 |
| asalkeld | honestly not sure | 20:02 |
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| shardy | not sure either | 20:02 |
| zaneb | my recollection is that to the extent they are, which is not great, it is a total pita | 20:02 |
| jpeeler | some of the clients are | 20:03 |
| zaneb | I think a really outdated version of swift is | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | ya, for tests | 20:03 |
| stevebake | it would be good for project visibility, and maybe our ubuntu instructions could use it until there is a PPA | 20:03 |
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| shardy | key issue seems to be ease of use on ubuntu rather than pypi specifically | 20:03 |
| zaneb | jpeeler: good point, and that makes sense | 20:03 |
| shardy | for several users (all our users?) | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | well maybe talk to the guys asking | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | and really find out what to do | 20:03 |
| zaneb | ubuntu ppa > pypi imo | 20:04 |
| stevebake | python-heatclient should be in pypi anyway, since its a lib | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:04 |
| zaneb | yes, client definitely in pypi | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | #action put heatclient in pypi | 20:04 |
| shardy | so as a first step, I'll get the getting started and tools/openstack working properly on ubuntu, that should satisfy most of the initial issues | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | is there a bug/bp for the packaging? | 20:04 |
| shardy | yep, linked in the agenda ;) | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | cool well done shardy | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | doh | 20:05 |
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| asalkeld | well lets move on | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | #topic State of ubuntu host/guest support | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "State of ubuntu host/guest support (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:05 | |
| shardy | so two issues - ease of install, and ubuntu guest functionality | 20:06 |
| shardy | I'll tackle the first as mentioned above | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | so we addressed packaging (ya) | 20:06 |
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| asalkeld | what about the guests | 20:06 |
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| shardy | jpeeler: did you look at the cloud-init path issue? | 20:06 |
| jpeeler | a while back, not recently | 20:07 |
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| jpeeler | changes between different versions of cloud-init is the problem | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | can we just increase the Importance on ubuntu bugs | 20:07 |
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| jpeeler | i started looking for a way to query for the version, but that was only recently added. that's where i stopped | 20:08 |
| shardy | Ok, so we need to figure that out, and update the ubuntu tdls to install a recent version of boto (need a bug for the latter) | 20:08 |
| shardy | what about integration testing - that currently only targets Fedora | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | #action make a bug to update the ubuntu tdls to install a recent version of boto | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | shardy, sounds like a good idea | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | to have a mix of guests | 20:09 |
| shardy | we have the all-clear to request some help from the CI team, but not sure what exactly we need atm | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | to get the functional tests running? | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | mmm | 20:10 |
| stevebake | should we also talk to Derek Higgins to see if there are some lab resources we could use? | 20:11 |
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| shardy | So if I get the ubuntu getting started markup sorted, what would it take to plumb that in with the existing automated tests zaneb? | 20:11 |
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| asalkeld | (the ones we are not running) | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | we do really need to run those | 20:12 |
| zaneb | shouldn't be too bad, but would have to get the existing ones running again first | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | #action start running the integration tests | 20:12 |
| shardy | need better visibility of the results, so it's noticed when we break them | 20:12 |
| zaneb | need to copy over the ubuntu ISO and build a jeos for it | 20:12 |
| zaneb | shardy: problem is we never got them all working on the server | 20:13 |
| zaneb | (and now the server is broke too) | 20:13 |
| shardy | doh | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | ok all in all - not good | 20:13 |
| zaneb | auth to beaker is not working, I'll have to file a ticket to get it sorted | 20:13 |
| zaneb | but I really do feel that we would be better off migrating to tempest | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | this is becomming a resource sucker | 20:14 |
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| asalkeld | we need to have a plan for this | 20:14 |
| shardy | Any ideas how we can get better value out of the existing tests without committing lots of resources? | 20:15 |
| zaneb | I have spent at least 3 months of this year on it already, it was always a giant resource sucker | 20:15 |
| shardy | how do other projects handle this? | 20:15 |
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| zaneb | shardy: yes, tempest ;) | 20:15 |
| shardy | ok, lets do that then ;) | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | is that more work? | 20:15 |
| stevebake | Dan Prince is Mr Tempest, we should ask him | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:15 |
| zaneb | that way we don't need to do any infrastructure stuff | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | well that is good | 20:16 |
| zaneb | big issue that I see is that we somehow need a guest image to launch | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | anyone interested in finding out about it | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:16 |
| stevebake | to the tests have to build a new image every run? | 20:16 |
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| shardy | Could they not just download a pre-built jeos? | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | well they could download the example images | 20:17 |
| zaneb | stevebake: no, although it has to be up to date if we keep changing the cfn-tools | 20:17 |
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| shardy | zaneb: automate rebuilding the pre-built images | 20:17 |
| shardy | sdake already wrote a script for that IIRC | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | or get cfn tools packages | 20:17 |
| shardy | Yep, cfntools packages sounds better to me | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | or get cfn tools packaged (how is that goind) | 20:18 |
| shardy | then we can have ostools which use the rest api | 20:18 |
| zaneb | +1 | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:18 |
| jpeeler | yeah i was going to package cfntools | 20:18 |
| zaneb | *or* use the AWS cfn tools, which are presumably already packaged ;) | 20:18 |
| jpeeler | can we do that ^^^ | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, we have an extension for ha | 20:19 |
| jpeeler | ok so no | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | to restart services | 20:19 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: can we inject it through cloud-init? | 20:19 |
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| asalkeld | yes | 20:19 |
| zaneb | let's do that | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | we could have cloud-init do that update | 20:20 |
| Sl0w_ | wouldn't that let us use other jeos images off amazon? | 20:20 |
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| asalkeld | no | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | we would need the cloud-init config | 20:20 |
| zaneb | do AWS images not have cloud-init? | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | yes, they do but not that default config | 20:21 |
| Sl0w | I don't know enough about how the native aws cfn images work | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | to install our cfn-init | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | I think we should move on | 20:21 |
| zaneb | that's what I'm suggesting, use Amazon's cfn-init | 20:21 |
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| zaneb | yeah, moving on | 20:22 |
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| asalkeld | some unresolved issues there | 20:22 |
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| asalkeld | #topic RHEL/CentOS support? | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RHEL/CentOS support? (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:22 | |
| shardy | so do we see that as important? | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | is this for guest/host | 20:23 |
| shardy | clearly nobody is going to deploy Fedora in a production environment | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | looks like host | 20:23 |
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| shardy | I was thinking host | 20:23 |
| shardy | but TDLs for RHEL would be good too | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | shardy, I think we need to focus on upstream work | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | less disto | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | else we will never get any work done | 20:24 |
| shardy | Ok, the problem is our users are demanding distro-specific instructions... | 20:24 |
| Sl0w | I would think rhel support will come at some point, maybe not now? | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | but yes to testing many guests | 20:24 |
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| stevebake | is there a public date for RHEL7? | 20:24 |
| zaneb | stevebake: no | 20:24 |
| shardy | ok, cool, lets drop that item for now then | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | shardy, mainly ubuntu right now | 20:24 |
| Sl0w | I guess the issue is if you need packages in rhel it's better to start sooner rather than later | 20:24 |
| zaneb | stevebake: "second half of 2013" is what I found on google | 20:25 |
| shardy | yeah, I'm trying to get some users who're not on ubuntu ;) | 20:25 |
| Sl0w | because it can take a long time | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | #topic Way forward for integration tests | 20:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Way forward for integration tests (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:25 | |
| asalkeld | I think we have done this | 20:25 |
| zaneb | that's what I thought ;) | 20:25 |
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| asalkeld | #topic Launchpad issues | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Launchpad issues (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:26 | |
| asalkeld | I think I have done that | 20:26 |
| shardy | think this is sorted after last nights reorg | 20:26 |
| stevebake | I'm attempting to flesh out my blueprints | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | but keep checking bugs | 20:26 |
| shardy | but for the benefit of everyone - new features == blueprint, bug==bug | 20:27 |
| stevebake | zaneb: so is REST done now? | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | and "weeding the garden" as steve would say | 20:27 |
| zaneb | stevebake: to a first approximation, yes | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, set the state on that bp | 20:27 |
| zaneb | ok | 20:27 |
| zaneb | still stuff like XML support to add | 20:27 |
| zaneb | but all the basic functionality is there | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | all of you see if a bp matches the work you are doing | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | and update the state | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | #topic jpeeler to update re state of snapshot/prebuild investigation | 20:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jpeeler to update re state of snapshot/prebuild investigation (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:28 | |
| * stevebake sees no xml bp | 20:28 | |
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| jpeeler | i was surprised to see this on the agenda since i thought it was decided it was too much work | 20:29 |
| jpeeler | especially after seeing this, which i didn't know existed: https://github.com/heat-api/heat-prebuild | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | so this idea sucked and we are moving on? | 20:29 |
| shardy | ok, I wasn't sure, I thought it was unresolved so added it to the agenda | 20:29 |
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| zaneb | that sounds like a good plan, but I don't think we'd actually _decided_ that before | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | jpeeler, how would you summerize the idea/project | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | so we had some grand ideas | 20:30 |
| jpeeler | the snapshot or the prebuild? | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | snapshot | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | is it doable/too much work, what are the show stoppers | 20:31 |
| jpeeler | the snapshotting was going to handle automatic caching with the option of allowing instances to launch either an exact clone or one that had all the packages installed, but would receive new user data | 20:31 |
| jpeeler | it's doable, it is a bit of work. one problem is handling simulatenous caching operations gracefully and a way to signal when user data execution was about to begin | 20:32 |
| zaneb | userdata comes from the nova metadata server? | 20:33 |
| jpeeler | yeah | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | so we want that to run each time | 20:33 |
| shardy | you could use a waitcondition (or similar method) for the latter | 20:33 |
| zaneb | ok, so no easy synchronisation there | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | I think we can use our time better | 20:33 |
| shardy | +1 | 20:33 |
| zaneb | jpeeler: what's your recommendation? | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | jpeeler, it would be good to write a brain bump on the wiki | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | so we don't loose the info you have learned | 20:34 |
| jpeeler | it is a lot of work, but at the same time i'm guessing part of the reason it was brought up was for me to dive into the code | 20:34 |
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| jpeeler | i can find other things to work on though | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | cool | 20:35 |
| zaneb | +1 | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | well we are getting to the end of topics, i suggest we go back to integration tests | 20:36 |
| Sl0w | +1 | 20:36 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: PTL? | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | #topic when do we need to choose a ptl | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "when do we need to choose a ptl (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:36 | |
| asalkeld | so I was asked about it at project meeting | 20:37 |
| zaneb | it would be nice to be able to wait until sdake is back on deck | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | but bit sad as steve is sick | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | yes | 20:37 |
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| asalkeld | so the qu. is when do we _have_ to do it by | 20:37 |
| zaneb | otoh maybe there should be somebody as the designated email contact when the TC need to bug us | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | sure, stand in | 20:38 |
| Sl0w | how hard is it to change the PTL later? | 20:38 |
| stevebake | when were re-elections? is it about 2 months before release? | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | well elected every 6 months - no? | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | just before each summit | 20:39 |
| zaneb | not sure how the rules apply to incubated projects | 20:39 |
| zaneb | since we don't affect the makeup of the TC, it may not matter | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | #action ask at next project meeting | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | (or just ask mark) | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | should we wrap up? | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | nice short meeting | 20:40 |
| shardy | is anyone going to FOSDEM? | 20:40 |
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| shardy | I can't go, but would be good to get a heat talk there if anyone is going | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | where is it? | 20:41 |
| zaneb | I think somebody needs to at least propose a heat talk | 20:41 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: Brussels | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | ok zaneb it's right next to you | 20:41 |
| shardy | it's a weekend, which is why I can't go (sons birthday) | 20:41 |
| zaneb | shadower: any interest? | 20:41 |
| stevebake | btw, can y'all start thinking about documentation, I'll put it on the agenda for next week | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, trying hard to avoid ;) | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | I would like us to one day sort out the integration test | 20:42 |
| zaneb | I went last year | 20:42 |
| zaneb | it was freezing! | 20:42 |
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| shadower | zaneb, maybe | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | (I am doing aussie linux conf in jan) | 20:42 |
| shadower | I was thinking about talking Heat on the Devconf in Brno feb | 20:42 |
| zaneb | shadower: that's not until the week after ;) | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | ok - the end ... | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | #endmeeting | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 28 20:43:27 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2012/heat.2012-11-28-19.59.html | 20:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2012/heat.2012-11-28-19.59.txt | 20:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2012/heat.2012-11-28-19.59.log.html | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | shardy, can you do the usual? | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | 20:43 | |
| shardy | update the agenda? | 20:43 |
| shardy | yep | 20:44 |
| asalkeld | you are so awesome at it | 20:44 |
| shardy | lol :P | 20:44 |
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| asalkeld | time to wake the kids up | 20:44 |
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| shadower | zaneb, aren't you planning to go to FOSDEM? | 20:46 |
| zaneb | shadower: haven't decided. If I had a talk accepted I would obviously go, but otherwise probably not | 20:46 |
| zaneb | haven't checked on budget | 20:47 |
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| shadower | zaneb, yup same here. If you want to do it, I don't want to stand in your way | 20:47 |
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| shadower | otherwise I'll submit the talk | 20:47 |
| zaneb | shadower: I got to go last year, so if you have a talk to submit go ahead | 20:48 |
| zaneb | I'm more than happy for you to do it | 20:48 |
| shadower | okay, thanks | 20:48 |
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| shadower | I'll need to sort out the budget, but yeah | 20:48 |
| zaneb | cool, sounds good :) | 20:50 |
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