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| notmyname | Hi! Who's here for the swift meeting? | 20:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ogelbukh | o/ | 20:00 |
| swifterdarrell | o/ | 20:01 |
| judd7 | o/ | 20:01 |
| torgomatic | o/ | 20:01 |
| notmyname | ok, let me get the meetbot set up | 20:01 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift community meeting | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 1 20:01:39 2012 UTC. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift_community_meeting' | 20:01 |
| notmyname | welcome and thanks for coming | 20:01 |
| notmyname | there is an agenda at http://wiki.openstack.org/SwiftOct1Meeting | 20:02 |
| notmyname | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/SwiftOct1Meeting | 20:02 |
| notmyname | and and etherpad doc at http://etherpad.openstack.org/SwiftOct1Meeting | 20:02 |
| notmyname | #link http://etherpad.openstack.org/SwiftOct1Meeting | 20:02 |
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| notmyname | Goal for this meeting: 1) wider dissemination of stuff to work on in swift and 2) determine what people will be working on over the next 6 months (openstack grizzly). This is also prep for the summit and how talks are scheduled and planned there. | 20:02 |
| notmyname | my vision is for swift to be used by everyone, every day, whether they know it or not. | 20:03 |
| notmyname | great example of how this is being done today is through wikipedia and the recent iphone 5 event | 20:04 |
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| notmyname | anyone who goes to wikipedia sees the media content served from a swift cluster, and the gdgt's liveblog of the iphone 5 event used swift (RAX cloud files) to serve up the content | 20:04 |
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| notmyname | To help guide the discussion for today's meeting, I've listed out a bunch of ideas on the agenda and etherpad | 20:05 |
| notmyname | These ideas have come from users and swift devs | 20:05 |
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| notmyname | Just to cover the bases, just because I listed something here doesn't mean it will get implemented, nor does the absence of an item mean it won't get implemented. | 20:05 |
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| notmyname | I'll be goving over each category in turn. please add your items as you see fit, and if you are interested in the feature, please add your name/org so we can keep a rough poll of what's important to who. | 20:05 |
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| notmyname | I think there are 4 broad areas for swift development | 20:06 |
| notmyname | he first is focusing on new contributors | 20:06 |
| notmyname | This helps swift in 2 ways. One, it adds momentum to the project by adding more devs and dev teams as contributors. Two, the process of making the codebase more friendly to new devs simply makes the codebase better for existing devs too. | 20:06 |
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| notmyname | A good way to help new devs get involved is to provide and improve our getting started docs. Docs about the code organization, overall system design, and improvements around setting up and testing a dev environment would go a long way to facilitating new devs coming into the project. | 20:07 |
| notmyname | Would anyone like to work on this, or is there anything to add in this category? | 20:07 |
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| notmyname | The second major area for swift development is focusing on new deployers. Deployers are the people who actually choose swift over alternatives and keep it running in production day in and day out. The features deployers look for have to do with automation, performance, and operational costs. | 20:08 |
| zaitcev | I think it's the usual place for new people to start. | 20:08 |
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| notmyname | zaitcev: docs or deployer concerns? | 20:08 |
| ogelbukh | we've got some docs on swift internals here at Mirantis | 20:08 |
| zaitcev | docs | 20:08 |
| ogelbukh | some of them we've published to our blog | 20:08 |
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| notmyname | ogelbukh: cool. anything you can do to add some of those to the docs in the codebase? | 20:09 |
| ogelbukh | others mostly internal materials and kb stuff | 20:09 |
| zykes- | hoii notmyname ! | 20:09 |
| ogelbukh | notmyname: if we can break down into subsections | 20:10 |
| notmyname | if anyone is interested in or working on the deployment category of things, please add your name/org there too | 20:10 |
| ogelbukh | I think we can try to list anything we have | 20:10 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: great | 20:10 |
| zaitcev | Deployment is also common to work on, I think. Here's one thingie, installs Swift among other things - https://github.com/derekhiggins/os-installer | 20:11 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: that's cool | 20:12 |
| tongli | guys, I've started looking at the multi-range support. | 20:12 |
| briancline | is there interest enough in better docs for folks running swift on alternative *nix platforms, in addition to what's there today? | 20:12 |
| ogelbukh | regarding deployment, it's interesting to know the status of multi-region | 20:13 |
| tongli | I think that the getting started dev guide and few experienced swift developers taking turns really monitor the questions regarding the swift develoment will be good. | 20:13 |
| notmyname | briancline: there are several things that have come up from time to time, but the core dev mostly see ubuntu+xfs | 20:13 |
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| notmyname | tongli: go ahead and add your name to the etherpad please | 20:14 |
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| notmyname | briancline: and the openstack CI testing isn't very broad as far as differing platforms goes | 20:14 |
| notmyname | briancline: so the biggest concerns are around supporting the code and regressions and reliable testing for it | 20:14 |
| notmyname | The third major category of swift development focuses on client apps. As nice as a REST-based API is, the vast majority of users will never touch HTTP. Good client apps bring a healthy ecosystem to the project and help swift thrive. | 20:15 |
| tongli | john, you mean put my name after the feature? | 20:15 |
| notmyname | What can we do to provide tools an information to the people making the client apps so that they add swift support to their products? | 20:15 |
| notmyname | tongli: ya, I saw you did. thanks | 20:15 |
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| notmyname | One way is to encourage community language bindings (Rackspace has several, as do other deployers like SoftLayer and HP). We can also provide docs around how to design good swift clients and how to design data sets to be used with swift. | 20:16 |
| notmyname | I don't want to say that all swift needs is better docs, but there are areas where better docs would help ;-) | 20:16 |
| ogelbukh | it's hard to overestimate the importance of docs ) | 20:17 |
| adrian_smith | Another way to encourage client apps would be CORS compatibility | 20:17 |
| briancline | notmyname: is that due to lack of easily accessible expertise with alternative platforms and even distributions? would also be interested in hearing more offline about the details on support concerns | 20:17 |
| pandemicsyn | api docs with some sample apps, or maybe links to opensource apps might be handy | 20:17 |
| notmyname | briancline: ya, that's part of it | 20:17 |
| adrian_smith | Has there been anything done on this recently? | 20:18 |
| notmyname | pandemicsyn: good idea, can you add it to the etherpad | 20:18 |
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| notmyname | I'll be using the etherpad to facilitate a similar discussion at the summit | 20:18 |
| adrian_smith | Last I checked we were looking to put this kind of thing out into a separate project rather than keep in in the core project. | 20:18 |
| tongli | how about the idea I had above to have one take turns to supervise the doc and answer very technical questions, say like 1per a month? | 20:19 |
| notmyname | adrian_smith: there was a patch for it (was it yours?) but it never got merged | 20:19 |
| notmyname | adrian_smith: I don't immediately see why it would need to be in a separate project | 20:19 |
| Guest80024 | some analysis / comparison to other storage solutions out there might be helpful to increase adoption | 20:19 |
| adrian_smith | notmyname: it was yes. I meant to follow up and put it in a separate project but just haven't had a chance yet. | 20:19 |
| notmyname | adrian_smith: ah ok. ya, I'd love to see full CORS support for swift | 20:20 |
| scotticus | notmyname: working on it. | 20:20 |
| adrian_smith | notmyname: just rereading your review now, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/6909/ | 20:20 |
| notmyname | scotticus: CORS? cool | 20:20 |
| notmyname | scotticus: you and adrian_smith should talk ;-) | 20:21 |
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| adrian_smith | notmyname: I'll try and take your comments into the next changeset | 20:21 |
| notmyname | moving to the next big category... | 20:22 |
| notmyname | The fourth major area is a focus on new end users. The end users are ultimately why we're working on this. This category is for things that are user-facing. Users want features to meet a specific pain point or to open up new use cases for the storage. For example, on-disk encryption is a pain point for some users for compliance reasons. On the other hand, a tiered storage cluster would allow swift to solve some new use cases. | 20:22 |
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| ogelbukh | we've done a design for on-disk encryption as a part of joint effort with Webex | 20:23 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: ya, I came across your blog post this morning | 20:23 |
| ogelbukh | there's a link to blog on it | 20:23 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: do you have an implementation for it yet? | 20:23 |
| ogelbukh | not ready to publish it yet | 20:24 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: also, I'd love for you to submit a proposal to talk about it at the design summit (summit.openstack.org) | 20:24 |
| ogelbukh | but we're working on it | 20:24 |
| adrian_smith | ogelbukh: could you post a link to your post. sounds interesting. love to see how you manage keys. | 20:24 |
| notmyname | Finally, there's the "catch-all" of "make swift more awesome". These are things like code refactorings, speed improvements, and system support. These are issues that get a lot of attention from the swift devs since it's what we deal with on a daily basis. These are things that will always be improved and will make up the largest number of commits in any swift release. | 20:24 |
| ogelbukh | http://www.mirantis.com/blog/openstack-swift-encryption-architecture/ | 20:24 |
| creiht | yeah the encryption part is pretty easy, the key management is where things get sticky | 20:24 |
| ogelbukh | yes, that's the hardest part | 20:25 |
| ogelbukh | for the initial implementation it's very simple | 20:25 |
| creiht | I've wondered if it would deserve its own service | 20:25 |
| glange | keys as a service? | 20:25 |
| ogelbukh | we need pluggable back-end there eventually | 20:25 |
| judd7 | is keystone a hard requirement these days? | 20:26 |
| notmyname | judd7: for swift? it's never been a requirement for running swift | 20:26 |
| creiht | I imagine keys are going to be more important in the other projects | 20:26 |
| ogelbukh | not really hard, i believe | 20:26 |
| zaitcev | Keystone is not a requirement to run Swift but some distros may pull it in as a dependency. | 20:26 |
| Guest80024 | you're thinking of having keystone serve out keys? | 20:26 |
| CrackerJackMack | Guest20200: seems like a fit | 20:26 |
| judd7 | it's in the name. :) | 20:26 |
| creiht | lol | 20:26 |
| notmyname | hehe | 20:26 |
| Guest80024 | might make sense - having tenant level keys + user level keys might make much sense | 20:27 |
| judd7 | As long as we need ANOTHER key management project in the universe, it might as well be in keystone. | 20:27 |
| judd7 | Unless the keystone devs want to make that a pluggable backend too. | 20:28 |
| judd7 | Which is fine. Would help corporate adoption. | 20:28 |
| creiht | all things are pluggable in openstack right? | 20:28 |
| creiht | :) | 20:28 |
| notmyname | creiht: isnt' it all middleware? | 20:28 |
| redbo | encryption is "easy" | 20:28 |
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| judd7 | "keep your keys in verisign's or whomsoever's safe." | 20:29 |
| judd7 | "we default to sqlite. | 20:29 |
| creiht | judd7: yeah | 20:29 |
| creiht | I haven't done very much research in that area though | 20:29 |
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| notmyname | is there any work being done on this already in keystone? | 20:30 |
| judd7 | I might pull something together. Dell has/needs that data for our own efforts. | 20:30 |
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| notmyname | judd7: cool. also, submit a talk for it for the summit :-) | 20:30 |
| judd7 | And by "pull together" I merely mean names/versions of customers who have at least asked us about it. | 20:30 |
| redbo | there are some big concerns I have about encryption | 20:31 |
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| Guest80024 | seems that mirantis is already doing a talk about their arch | 20:31 |
| ogelbukh | redbo: could you please share some? | 20:32 |
| notmyname | Guest80024: ogelbukh: not in the technical tracks though | 20:32 |
| notmyname | what else in the feature list or category list would you like to discuss before moving on to the summit plans? | 20:32 |
| redbo | if it's implemented as middleware, I'm assuming you'll lose the ability to serve ranges inexpensively | 20:32 |
| redbo | as opposed to something like an encrypted block device | 20:33 |
| adrian_smith | unique-as-possible data placement is really interesting | 20:33 |
| Guest80024 | (reading the blog) - they encrypt each block seperatly | 20:33 |
| Guest80024 | not block - each chunk. | 20:33 |
| ogelbukh | yes, it's by-chunk | 20:33 |
| judd7 | CPU++ | 20:33 |
| adrian_smith | it really opens the door for distributed clusters | 20:33 |
| notmyname | redbo: ogelbukh: we've got an implementation at swiftstack that uses LUKS devices | 20:33 |
| notmyname | adrian_smith: ya, the unique-as-possible is really cool. it's already in swift, but it needs to be expanded somewhat for the global clusters | 20:34 |
| redbo | my other concern is mostly CPU usage | 20:34 |
| ogelbukh | should be actually faster then middleware encryption | 20:35 |
| ogelbukh | however, it's all or nothing | 20:35 |
| Guest80024 | can you elaborate on unique-as-possible? | 20:35 |
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| Guest80024 | (i.e. link?) | 20:35 |
| adrian_smith | notmyname: sure. it's a really attractive feature. looking forward to seeing where it goes | 20:35 |
| ogelbukh | some range of options here ) | 20:35 |
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| adrian_smith | Guest80024: described here, http://swiftstack.com/blog/2012/09/27/top-three-swift-features-in-openstack-folsom/ | 20:36 |
| Guest80024 | thx! | 20:36 |
| notmyname | adrian_smith: thanks | 20:36 |
| Guest80024 | there was some talk about dedup within swift... | 20:37 |
| notmyname | so, anything else before we move on to the summit plans? (summit plans discussion should be short) | 20:37 |
| Guest80024 | is that on anyone's radar? | 20:37 |
| tongli | what do you mean by remove webob? | 20:37 |
| notmyname | Guest80024: it's possible (anything's possible!) but probably unlikely | 20:37 |
| notmyname | tongli: redbo has an outstanding patch to do so. basically, webob keeps breaking us with every version bump | 20:38 |
| Guest80024 | there was a Msc dude in portogal that started circulating a proposal that got some traction on the ML | 20:38 |
| notmyname | tongli: it's a pain to amange | 20:38 |
| tongli | i c. I remember once that the HEAD operation failed. had to apply a patch. | 20:38 |
| notmyname | tongli: and has annoying "magic properties" that do stuff when you don't expect it to (like content-type and charset setting) | 20:38 |
| pandemicsyn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/12186/ - swob | 20:39 |
| notmyname | ok, summit plans | 20:39 |
| notmyname | I hope you are all going to the summit, but I know some of you won't be there | 20:40 |
| tongli | quite big change. so it will be merged? | 20:40 |
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| notmyname | please submit your talk proposals at http://summit.openstack.org | 20:40 |
| notmyname | you can also see what's currently proposed there | 20:40 |
| Guest80024 | nexenta put out a detailed proposal for the dedup stuff.. not sure it ever went anywhere: http://etherpad.openstack.org/P9MMYSWE6U | 20:40 |
| notmyname | We've got a swift track all day on monday (8 slots) and possibly 2 more slots on tuesday morning. The sessions are intendend to be for community feature dev work, but in the past we have also had talks on design overviews and in-depth discussions on how existing features work. | 20:40 |
| notmyname | there are some additional workshop sessions that will cover some swift topics, so there should be some very good swift content at this summit | 20:41 |
| notmyname | is anyone planning on submitting talks that hasn't done so already (we've only had 3 people submit talks so far) | 20:42 |
| Guest80024 | can i float an idea here? | 20:42 |
| notmyname | I'd like to see one from ogelbukh on the encryption. perhaps someone from rax or adrian_smith on CORS | 20:43 |
| notmyname | Guest80024: sure | 20:43 |
| Guest80024 | automatic ring adjustment for add/remove disks, with timed, gated adjustment of disk weights | 20:43 |
| tongli | I would love to see someone talks about the ring generation in details and how we can make that automated in the future. | 20:43 |
| tongli | @Guest80024, are we thinking about the same thing? | 20:43 |
| Guest80024 | there are a few tools out there that do generation. | 20:44 |
| Guest80024 | the problem is maintaining.... and adjusting to changes in available disks/servers | 20:44 |
| notmyname | pandemicsyn: arent' you working on soemthing like that? the ring-server? | 20:44 |
| judd7 | Guest80024: can you list some of those tools? | 20:44 |
| ogelbukh | personally I won't be able to attend, but mirantis will do the talk about it | 20:44 |
| tongli | yes, | 20:44 |
| tongli | I would like to see a talk about ring and ring related session. | 20:44 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: cool. please try to get something on the summit page, even a placeholder ASAP | 20:44 |
| pandemicsyn | notmyname: ring server just lets you add/remove/manage devices , doesn't manage rebalance/deployments | 20:45 |
| ogelbukh | on the ring generation, we've done some things in puppet | 20:45 |
| ogelbukh | based on current stuff but slightly modified | 20:45 |
| zaitcev | http://swiftstack.com/blog/2012/04/09/swift-capacity-management/ says that SwiftStack's cluster management has "add gradually" mode | 20:45 |
| judd7 | I did (in a previous life) ring management with chef+rundeck. It was cool. | 20:45 |
| Guest80024 | I was talking about crowbar | 20:45 |
| notmyname | tongli: we're doing a meetup in sunnyvale next week about that :-) | 20:45 |
| Guest80024 | but it's not yet updated for the smarter folsom ring | 20:46 |
| tongli | yeah, in Raleigh NC, can not attend. | 20:46 |
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| notmyname | Please go to your org and campaign for what is important to you. And bring other ideas to the summit. :-) | 20:46 |
| Guest80024 | (and IRC is being stupid about letting me use my handle for some reason.. its aabes_) | 20:46 |
| tongli | it will be nice to have some one write up something for a session not only about the ring in current implementation, but also look at the future and some options to improve | 20:46 |
| notmyname | tongli: ya, we can look into something about that | 20:47 |
| Guest80024 | if there's interest in having a discussion about my suggestion, I'll submit a summit session. | 20:47 |
| tongli | great. | 20:47 |
| notmyname | Guest80024: I'm interested. please submit it :-) | 20:47 |
| notmyname | And now to the last item on the agenda: are there any outstanding concerns or questions about swift that I can answer or work on, on your behalf? | 20:47 |
| Guest80024 | better deployment consideration documentation? | 20:48 |
| zaitcev | notmyname: I added it to Etherpad - do you know if gholt is going to continue on Swiftly? | 20:48 |
| notmyname | gholt: around and want to answer? | 20:48 |
| pandemicsyn | zaitcev: not sure if gholt is around today (hes got bird flu or something) | 20:48 |
| glange | notmyname: he's been out sick today | 20:49 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: swiftly is a community or ecosystem thing | 20:49 |
| pandemicsyn | but we use swiftly alot at $RAX | 20:49 |
| zaitcev | I'm sick of the client CPU burn, so I was going to have a look. Not sure if it should go into python-swiftclient or perhaps he's already solved it. | 20:49 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: ya, talks around the client certainly would be appropriate at the summit too | 20:49 |
| Guest80024 | haven't looked recently - how's the swift support in fog? | 20:50 |
| zaitcev | Not coming to Summit this time sadly | 20:50 |
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| torgomatic | zaitcev: the client CPU burn can, in principle, be cleaned up provided that it doesn't have to run on Python <= 2.4 | 20:50 |
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| zykes- | still swift meeting notmyname ? | 20:51 |
| notmyname | zykes-: ya | 20:51 |
| notmyname | 9 minutes left. anything I can address, either with swift or openstack-related? also, feel free to email me at me@not.mn | 20:52 |
| creiht | notmyname: I may have another one, but I can't talk about it yet :) | 20:52 |
| creiht | (summit talk) | 20:52 |
| notmyname | creiht: cool | 20:52 |
| swifterdarrell | zaitcev: torgomatic: I think I've fixed at least one Queue busy-waiting in python-swiftclient's swift | 20:52 |
| notmyname | creiht: when will you be able to? | 20:52 |
| Guest80024 | notmyname: fog support for swift? | 20:52 |
| notmyname | Guest80024: I'm not a ruby dev, so I haven't kept up to date on fog support | 20:53 |
| Guest80024 | just checked, doesn't seem to be there.. there's rax and s3 | 20:53 |
| notmyname | Guest80024: RAX == swift | 20:53 |
| Guest80024 | keystone auth? | 20:53 |
| notmyname | assuming it let's you set the auth endpoint | 20:53 |
| creiht | notmyname: be able to? | 20:53 |
| zaitcev | swifterdarrell, I'll check if it's the same. I saw a problem with SSL enabled. | 20:53 |
| creiht | I have an idea of something that I want to talk about, but have to run it by some people here first | 20:54 |
| notmyname | creiht: able to talk about it | 20:54 |
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| notmyname | ok, let me knwo | 20:54 |
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| creiht | ahh... it is probably best that I don't yet :) | 20:54 |
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| notmyname | oh the suspense ;-) | 20:54 |
| creiht | hah | 20:54 |
| judd7 | We wont tell anyone. | 20:54 |
| notmyname | ok, let's go ahead and wrap this up so that the next meeting can start | 20:54 |
| briancline | don't worry, this definitely isn't logged | 20:55 |
| swifterdarrell | zaitcev: may be unrelated--I was referring to CPU burn related to busy-waiting on threads/Queues; one place has been changed and as torgomatic pointed out, there are several left to fix | 20:55 |
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| judd7 | Thanks notmyname, pandemicsyn | 20:55 |
| swifterdarrell | zaitcev: but that's probably unrelated to something re: SSL? | 20:55 |
| notmyname | Thanks for your time. We all work for different organizations. Please go to your org and campaign for what is important to you. And bring other ideas to the summit. Looking forward to seeing you there. | 20:55 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 1 20:56:03 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift_community_meeting/2012/swift_community_meeting.2012-10-01-20.01.html | 20:56 |
| ogelbukh | notmyname: thanks for the opportunity | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift_community_meeting/2012/swift_community_meeting.2012-10-01-20.01.txt | 20:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift_community_meeting/2012/swift_community_meeting.2012-10-01-20.01.log.html | 20:56 |
| ogelbukh | thanks everyone ) | 20:56 |
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| zykes- | danwent: are you alive or ? | 20:58 |
| zykes- | wrong channel though but | 20:58 |
| danwent | zykes-: i'm just busy. if you have a bug, best to use LP for that. | 20:59 |
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| danwent | hi folks… channel is looking a little dead today :) | 21:00 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:00 |
| markvoelker | o/ | 21:00 |
| salv-orlando | hi | 21:01 |
| danwent | #startmeeting quantum | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 1 21:01:05 2012 UTC. The chair is danwent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| amotoki | o/ | 21:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'quantum' | 21:01 |
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| danwent | #link agenda: http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/Meetings | 21:01 |
| danwent | should be a pretty short meeting today… I assume people are still recovering from the release :) | 21:01 |
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| danwent | #info Quantum Folsom release is out! Congrats to the whole team! | 21:01 |
| zykes- | danwent: or just hiding ;) | 21:02 |
| nati_ueno | hi | 21:02 |
| nati_ueno | Congrat! | 21:02 |
| danwent | #info all bugs found that may be considered for backport to Folsom should be fixed in master and have the bug tagged with 'folsom-backport-potential' | 21:02 |
| * markvoelker cheers | 21:02 | |
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| danwent | here is the current list: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantum/+bugs?field.tag=folsom-backport-potential | 21:02 |
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| arosen | hi | 21:03 |
| danwent | so far there is nothing i've seen of significant concern, so we'll hold off on a stable release until either a bunch of small things pop-up, or there is a major issue that we feel we need to address urgently. | 21:03 |
| danwent | #help we're looking for people to help manage the stable/folsom branch and keep track of what fixes need to be back-ported, decide on timing of stable releases, etc. | 21:04 |
| danwent | I believe rkukura or garyk worked on this in the past | 21:04 |
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| danwent | neither of them seem to be here today, but if others are interested in helping out as well, let me know. the more the merrier in my opinion. | 21:05 |
| danwent | There was also a ton of great work that went into creating content for the openstack docs in the past week. | 21:05 |
| danwent | I believe the major gaps we outlined have for the most part been closed. | 21:06 |
| annegentle | nice job all! | 21:06 |
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| danwent | #info any remainning doc issues should be filed against the openstack-manuals project and tagged with 'quantum' (for the quantum admin guide) and 'netconn-api' for the API guide. | 21:06 |
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| danwent | here are the existing links: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.tag=quantum | 21:07 |
| danwent | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.tag=netconn-api | 21:07 |
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| amotoki | what is the status of netconn-api? | 21:07 |
| danwent | we'll want to be very vigilent that if someone asks something on the mailing list, and we can't answer by pointing to a section of either of those two docs, then we should probably be filing a bug to add that content to one of the guies. | 21:07 |
| danwent | salv-orlando: ? | 21:08 |
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| salv-orlando | amotoki: we have a final patch in WIP for l3 extension | 21:08 |
| salv-orlando | and then we still need to document the Quota extension | 21:08 |
| amotoki | have you solved the problem in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/13299/? | 21:08 |
| danwent | salv-orlando: can you create netconn-api bugs for those if there aren't already? | 21:08 |
| salv-orlando | Apart from that, it is complete (pending bugs and errors that you guys might find) | 21:08 |
| danwent | or rather openstack-manuals bugs, tagged with netconn-api | 21:08 |
| salv-orlando | danwent: already created, probably not tagget | 21:08 |
| danwent | ah, makes sense. | 21:09 |
| salv-orlando | amotoki: should have been transient failure as this morning a patch dependent on this built fine. Let me do a recheck. | 21:09 |
| danwent | Ok, any other topics to discuss on Folsom release or docs? | 21:09 |
| ijw | Per what I said earlier today on the list, if there's not Python API stuff in the docs then there probably ought to be (I haven't looked at the Quantum docs specifically) | 21:09 |
| amotoki | sound good. | 21:09 |
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| danwent | ijw: i'm not sure what the right place for such content is. | 21:10 |
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| ijw | Yeah, indeed. Not with the web API itself, I guess, but it ought to be somewhere. | 21:11 |
| danwent | I want to keep the API spec relatively clean and focused on the rest calls. I assume you're looking for something that documents the python bindings? | 21:11 |
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| danwent | ijw: agreed... | 21:11 |
| salv-orlando | danwent, ijw: looking at your email seems you're looking for developer docs | 21:11 |
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| danwent | well, there's two types of that salv-orlando | 21:11 |
| danwent | one is for building quantum itself, and another is for calling its APIs, but via python bindings | 21:11 |
| danwent | i thought ijw was talking about API bindings for python | 21:12 |
| salv-orlando | I meant the second one - aimed at developers wishing to use quantum | 21:12 |
| annegentle | all the colors of the rainbow developers :) Really just red (API) or blue (Python). | 21:12 |
| annegentle | or the purple ones who are both | 21:12 |
| ijw | I'm talking about the Python bindings - I think there should be a straightforward docstring extraction (assuming anyone gives the docstrings love when they write things) plus an explanation of how the API is used, and a pointer so that it can all be found. But I'll take what I can get ;) | 21:13 |
| annegentle | ijw: I think the current problem your issue raises is that the docstrings are not getting love in certain projects - haven't examined quantum to know if they <3 docstrings | 21:14 |
| danwent | I think the reality is that there is no documented, stable API other than the webservice API itself. | 21:14 |
| ijw | annegentle: actually, there's the open question of whether they should be called at all - nothing says it's public | 21:14 |
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| annegentle | ijw: and "public" is whether the endpoint is public (based on what the cloud provider deploys)? | 21:14 |
| danwent | we could push for certain APIs within python-quantumclient to be those APIs, but at this point, I'm not aware of stabilitization promises around that. | 21:15 |
| danwent | I think this is a good point though | 21:15 |
| annegentle | ijw: or governed by policy (again from the cloud provider) | 21:15 |
| amotoki | ijw: horizon/api/quantum.py is a good example if you want to know how to use python-quantumclient. | 21:15 |
| ijw | 'Public' as in 'we expect to maintain compatibility' | 21:15 |
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| ijw | annegentle: since the Python bindings are relatively divorced from the web API you have to have some assurance that they're going to be stable. | 21:15 |
| annegentle | ijw: ok, understood | 21:16 |
| danwent | this might be a good topic for future discussion, as I agree that (a) there is potential value in a stable python API and (b) that we make no such promises at this point. | 21:16 |
| danwent | ijw: do you want to discuss this @ summit? | 21:16 |
| danwent | or simply create a BP around it if you don't think there's much to discuss | 21:16 |
| ijw | Yes, and I don't think it's just a quantum thing, so a wider audience might be a good idea | 21:16 |
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| danwent | ijw: yeah, ideally we'd have consistency in terms of the behavior of these python APIs across projects. I suspect that is far from the case right now. | 21:17 |
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| danwent | ijw: definitely consult with Yong on this too, as he created most of the latest rev of the client, I think. | 21:18 |
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| danwent | (he doesn't seem to be here today… post folsom vacation I guess) | 21:18 |
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| danwent | Ok, so moving on... | 21:18 |
| salv-orlando | danwent: or probably finally enjoying the comfort of his bed at 5 in the morning :) | 21:18 |
| danwent | perhaps :P | 21:19 |
| danwent | #topic quantum tempest + gating | 21:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "quantum tempest + gating" | 21:19 | |
| danwent | I wanted to revive this discussion now that folsom is out. I think its probably the most important thing our team needs to be focused on now, so I wanted to figure out where we were, and what we needed to plan for at the summit | 21:19 |
| danwent | mnewby nati_ueno any info? | 21:20 |
| nati_ueno | Here is meeting log http://etherpad.openstack.org/quantum-tempest | 21:20 |
| nati_ueno | We are discussing after openstack-qa meeting | 21:20 |
| danwent | nati_ueno: ah, ok, there's another meeting coming up soon? when is that? | 21:21 |
| danwent | i saw the existing tempest review expire, so I wasn't sure if people were still actively working on it. | 21:21 |
| nati_ueno | It is not formal meeting | 21:21 |
| nati_ueno | danwent: Ah sorry. I was in bussiness trip to Japan. So I haven't progressed the work yet. | 21:21 |
| danwent | nati_ueno: can you work with mnewby, folks from tempest, and the CI team to make sure we have a session on this at the summit? | 21:22 |
| nati_ueno | danwent: Sure | 21:22 |
| danwent | we can put it on the quantum track and invite others | 21:22 |
| nati_ueno | Great | 21:22 |
| danwent | #todo nati_ueno create summit session around quantum tempest efforts + gating | 21:23 |
| danwent | #topic grizzly summit | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "grizzly summit" | 21:23 | |
| danwent | #info http://www.openstack.org/summit/san-diego-2012/ | 21:23 |
| danwent | summit is two weeks away | 21:23 |
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| danwent | we will want session schedule finalized by early next week | 21:23 |
| danwent | (well, sometimes individual slots change last minute, but our general set of topics should be set by then) | 21:24 |
| danwent | #info quantum summit sessions are mon/tues/wed | 21:24 |
| danwent | no sessions thurs | 21:24 |
| danwent | #info to propose sessions, use: http://summit.openstack.org/ | 21:24 |
| danwent | a couple reminders here, as people always go a bit crazy around summit time | 21:25 |
| danwent | first, its not about who proposes a session first… if multiple people want to talk on the same topics, we'll commonly merge sessions one all sessions have been proposed | 21:25 |
| danwent | we need a healthy balance of "community projects" vs. "shiny objects"… topics like system test, horizon integration, HA improvements, etc. are very important to average users | 21:26 |
| danwent | as I mentioned before, we really need to focus on system test/ tempest + gating. to me this is the biggest gap for us right now. | 21:27 |
| danwent | one particular "shiny object" that peopel are already creating a lot of content around is "load-balancer-as-a-service" | 21:27 |
| danwent | #info content for load-balancer as a service discuss is being put here: http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/LBaaS | 21:28 |
| danwent | feel free to add your own thoughts | 21:28 |
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| salv-orlando | I would also add "do not refresh the web page after submitting a session" :) | 21:28 |
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| amotoki | I made a mistake already :-( | 21:29 |
| danwent | over the past few months I've been keeping a list of good community topics… i'll send out an email with those items. | 21:29 |
| danwent | I'll be asking people to organize sessions around many of those topics. | 21:29 |
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| danwent | any other questions/comments on summit proposals? | 21:29 |
| zykes- | danwent: which one of the lbaas projects is it? the mirantis one or ? | 21:30 |
| nati_ueno | I would like to propose quantum-scheduler session | 21:30 |
| danwent | zykes-: there are several different proposals for lbaas, all on that page. | 21:30 |
| nati_ueno | It may be merged to HA session | 21:30 |
| danwent | nati_ueno: sure, just propose session for now, and we'll figure out what sessions may make sense to merge once that is done. | 21:31 |
| nati_ueno | danwent: I got it | 21:31 |
| danwent | #topic open discussion | 21:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion" | 21:31 | |
| danwent | any other comments/questions? or will this be the shortest meeting ever? :) | 21:31 |
| danwent | ok, that's a wrap. thanks folks. look for email about community topics for the summit | 21:32 |
| danwent | we'll finalize the list early next week. | 21:32 |
| danwent | #endmeeting | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 1 21:32:48 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/quantum/2012/quantum.2012-10-01-21.01.html | 21:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/quantum/2012/quantum.2012-10-01-21.01.txt | 21:32 |
| salv-orlando | bye | 21:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/quantum/2012/quantum.2012-10-01-21.01.log.html | 21:32 |
| nati_ueno | TTYL! | 21:32 |
| danwent | world record time :) | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | later | 21:32 |
| mestery | later folks! | 21:32 |
| danwent | bye! | 21:33 |
| amotoki | thank folks! | 21:33 |
| markvoelker1 | Night all! | 21:33 |
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