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| fergal | hello | 15:57 |
|---|---|---|
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| jgriffith | Folks for a cinder meeting? | 16:01 |
| Vincent_Hou | y | 16:01 |
| bswartz | yes | 16:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
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| DuncanT | I'd say no, but I'd be lying... | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 8 16:02:13 2012 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | So first, I apologize for not updating the agenda this week and sending out a reminder | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | Let's do things backwards today since we always run out of time... | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | Does anybody have anyhting that they need help with or want to discuss? | 16:03 |
| dricco | I'm here | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | dricco: Hey there | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | cool... so nobody has anything? | 16:04 |
| dtynan | hey there. i wouldn't mind discussing boot-from-volume. | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | This should be a quick meeting for a change | 16:04 |
| bswartz | I have some submissions coming | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: sure.. | 16:05 |
| bswartz | nothing to talk about necessarily, just fyi | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | #topic boot from volume | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "boot from volume" | 16:05 | |
| jgriffith | dtynan: go for it | 16:05 |
| dtynan | i'm working for HP cloud services, over the wall from Duncan & co. | 16:05 |
| dtynan | i've been looking @ the create-volume stuff using an image_id. | 16:05 |
| dtynan | (on Diablo) | 16:06 |
| dtynan | just noticed, about 10 mins ago that someone else has put some changes in to Cinder for (what looks like) the same thing | 16:06 |
| dtynan | ? | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | Yeah, it's part of changes for bfv | 16:06 |
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| dtynan | i was curious if the bfv plans folded both the create-volume-from-image stuff with the boot-instance-from-bootable-volume. | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | dtynan: It's seperate patches as I recall | 16:08 |
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| dtynan | to me, they're two separate steps - anyone else agree/disagree? | 16:08 |
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| * jgriffith agrees | 16:08 | |
| jdurgin | I agree | 16:08 |
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| dtynan | is thingee here? | 16:09 |
| thingee | am here | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: I'm confused... what's the question/issue? | 16:09 |
| dtynan | is that your patch: "Change in openstack/cinder[master]: Added copy image to volume & create image of vol" | 16:10 |
| thingee | no | 16:10 |
| dtynan | ah. ok. | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: It's Unmesh | 16:10 |
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| dtynan | jgriffith: trying to figure out who else is working on this. | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: He took the blueprint and ran with it after it sat for a very long time | 16:10 |
| dtynan | ah. ok. | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | Unmesh Gurjar... | 16:11 |
| Vincent_Hou | I think boot-instance-from-bootable-volume copies the image from swift to the volume, after the volume is attached to an instance. Can we do the copying without depending on an instance? I think it is necessary. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=create-volume-from-image | 16:11 |
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| dtynan | that's what i've been looking at. i have something working in Diablo which creates a new volume (independent of an instance) which is initialized from Glance. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Don't think anybody *knew* you were working on somehting | 16:13 |
| bswartz | this looks good to me as well | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Also, you have it in diablo, are you working on it for Folsom and going to release something? | 16:13 |
| dtynan | yes | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Ok, well there was no way for anybody to know that | 16:14 |
| dtynan | haven't been working on it for long... :) | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Also, just FYI feature freeze is next week | 16:14 |
| dtynan | no pressure, then | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | Are there significant differences between your work and what Unmesh has proposed? | 16:15 |
| dtynan | i only caught it today, so i'm still reviewing. | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | Ok | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: So the best thing to do would be see if it lines up with what you had planned | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Feel free to suggest additions/mods | 16:16 |
| dtynan | yeah, agreed. | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Also, see if you can ping Unmesh and maybe work together with him | 16:16 |
| dtynan | any1 else working on this? | 16:16 |
| dtynan | jgriffth: will do. | 16:16 |
| * bswartz is not working on it but is interested | 16:16 | |
| jdurgin | I'm working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/effecient-volumes-from-images, which depends on that | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Unmesh was the only person I knew of working on this, and jdurgin | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | nm... there ya go | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:17 |
| jdurgin | I don't seem to be able to assign myself to the blueprint though | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin: Done | 16:17 |
| jdurgin | thanks | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin: If you have something in progress make sure you update status etc | 16:18 |
| jdurgin | will do | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Anything else? | 16:19 |
| dtynan | nope. ta muchly. | 16:19 |
| dtynan | i'll get in touch with you guys directly to sync up. | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | sounds good | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | #topic netapp questions | 16:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "netapp questions" | 16:20 | |
| jgriffith | bswartz: You're up | 16:20 |
| chalupaul | hi bswartz | 16:20 |
| bswartz | I don't have any questions | 16:20 |
| bswartz | but I can answer them | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | Oh, thought you said you had something to discuss :) | 16:20 |
| bswartz | if anyone else wants to ask about what we're doing | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Ok... I'll bite. "what are you guys doing?" | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:21 |
| bswartz | I'm planning to submit a driver that lets cinder use ordinary files on a NFS server as block devices | 16:21 |
| bswartz | with additional enhancements when that NFS server is a NetApp device | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Ummmmm | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Did you talk to anybody about this beforehand? | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Did you submit a blueprint? | 16:22 |
| bswartz | not yet | 16:22 |
| bswartz | it's a self-contained driver at this point | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | Ok, I'd suggest getting a blueprint out asap | 16:23 |
| bswartz | shouldn't impact architecture much if at all | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Also there were some lengthy discussions at the summit regarding NFS | 16:23 |
| bswartz | I know, my appologies | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Rob was present and I think there was a concensus regarding NFS support | 16:24 |
| bswartz | yeah we some ideas for significant new NFS-related features but we plan to wait for the next release to address those | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | So this brings up the question again... is Cinder the right place for NFS? | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin: thoughts on this? | 16:25 |
| bswartz | There are arguments for and against | 16:26 |
| chalupaul | i think it should be personally | 16:26 |
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| bswartz | the main argument for is that customers want to manage storage in 1 place if possible | 16:26 |
| jdurgin | if it's being used to store image files accessed as block devices, I think it makes sense, just like a local storage driver would make sense | 16:26 |
| jdurgin | if it's about exporting a filesystem directly to the guest, that's a bit different | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | jdurgin: Agreed. It is filesystem-as-a-service that is contentious | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | I don't want anything to do with the second | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: So what you're saying is a driver to present NFS as block storage backends? | 16:28 |
| bswartz | I realize that the second one is controversial | 16:28 |
| bswartz | yes, that's what we have planned for Folsom | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Well you're running out of time | 16:28 |
| bswartz | I don't expect our Folsom submission to be controversial | 16:28 |
| renuka | jgriffith: FYI because of SM, xenserver supports NFS as a part of n-vol/cinder | 16:28 |
| renuka | also netapp | 16:29 |
| bswartz | also, we have customers who are already using NFS files are virtual block devices -- albeit without n-vol/cinder | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | renuka: Sorry, I don't know what you mean "supports NFS as a paort of n-vol/cinder" | 16:30 |
| bswartz | NFS files as* block devices | 16:30 |
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| DuncanT | NFS storing image files sounds fine... | 16:30 |
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| renuka | jgriffith: The storage manager driver uses xenserver storage manager, which already has support for talking to NFS, equallogic, netapp, iscsi, etc. So we can support NFS block devices on xenserver today. And that is a part of nova volume | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | renuka: got it...thanks | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | Alright, sounds good then | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: You really *need* to get a blueprint and get something submitted quickly though | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: like you said, no pressure | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: If it's a contained driver then it shouldn't be a big deal to get it in | 16:32 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: that is the plan | 16:33 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: I would expect that there will be support for non NetAPP NFS in some fashion as well no? | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Or is this just a netapp driver of sorts? | 16:33 |
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| bswartz | jgriffith: Yes, although I'm not sure who would actually use that. It would be like a reference implementation. | 16:34 |
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| bswartz | jgriffith: That "yes" was to the first question. We will support non-NetApp devices as NFS servers as well. | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: got ya | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Ok, sounds good. I'll look forward to a blueprint and some code | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | #topic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=create-volume-from-image | 16:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=create-volume-from-image" | 16:36 | |
| jgriffith | oops | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | #topic https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/+bug/1028718 | 16:36 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/+bug/1028718" | 16:36 | |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1028718 in nova "nova volumes are inappropriately clingy for ceph" [Medium,Triaged] | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: care to share | 16:36 |
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| DuncanT | Basically I just want to add that we don't care which volume node gets requests, like ceph we only run multiple volume nodes for HA and load reasons | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT | The recent fix for steering volume-from-snapshot requests to a specific volume node is a regression for us | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | I was wondering how much work in that direction people are willing to consider? | 16:38 |
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| jdurgin | I'm interested in fixing it, but doubt I'll get to it this week | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | Are we limited to hacks like --host or can we promote this to a first-class configuration? | 16:39 |
| jdurgin | I'm not that familiar with the scheduler layer, but I'd like it to be first class configuration | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: We can make it first class | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Just need to have a resource and time | 16:40 |
| jdurgin | i.e. a host_agnostic option or something | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | Awesome... Expect bugs / patches soon :-) | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: :) | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | As long as the bugs come with patches that's great :) | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | (That's the extent of my questions on the subject) | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Ok, thanks | 16:41 |
| renuka | I have a question | 16:41 |
| renuka | I am surprised that we dont have multiple volume/cinder instances performing behaving only as control planes | 16:42 |
| renuka | i dont understand this dependence on a particular volume service instance | 16:42 |
| DuncanT | renuka: That's exactly the config I want to support | 16:42 |
| jdurgin | +1 | 16:43 |
| chalupaul | you mean like how it was in nova-volume? with the blockdevicemapper or whatever it was called? | 16:43 |
| renuka | Does it not work today because of a particular driver? | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | renuka: It's not something we *didn't* want, we just didn't get to it | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | renuka: Hopefully via a scheduler plugin so it is a simple config option | 16:43 |
| renuka | do you mean nova-volume has it and not cinder? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | renuka: scheduler is the missing piece, combined with folks using lvm/local didsks | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | disks | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | nova-volume does not have it except via a hack | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | renuka: No, I nova-volume does not hav it either | 16:44 |
| chalupaul | i didn't actually understand what you asked i suppose, based on other people's feedback. ignore me please :P | 16:44 |
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| DuncanT | renuka: I aim to make it an option you can turn on if you know your driver supports it | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | chalupaul: no worries the bdm is for attached BD's to instances etc | 16:45 |
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| renuka | wait, we end up casting a request to anything that could be nova-volume, right | 16:45 |
| chalupaul | yeah | 16:45 |
| renuka | which means any of the service instances could pick it up | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | renuka: create-from-snapshot now goes direct to a named volume node | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | renuka: This I aim to fix | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: renuka: because it has to if they're using LVM | 16:46 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Yup, hence making it an option. If I can make the LVM driver log errors or something if the two are combined then I will | 16:46 |
| renuka | So I feel we need to make cinder drivers strictly control planes. This will help us with HA, upgrades and make things easier | 16:47 |
| renuka | is that doable? | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | renuka: I think it depends on the driver | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | renuka: That does not work for LVM driver | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | renuka: Not sure about other drivers | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | renuka: For some of us (SolidFire, Netapp etc) yes that works | 16:47 |
| renuka | It should work for iscsi | 16:47 |
| renuka | couldn't LVM be LVM over iscsi? | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | renuka: Problem comes in with snapshots/deletes etc | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | renuka: Although what DuncanT is proposing I believe will address this | 16:48 |
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| jgriffith | LVM is presented via iscsi to the compute nodes anyway | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | yes | 16:49 |
| renuka | Right, so are we saying that after DuncanT's fix, we should be in a position to enforce drivers being only control planes? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | Possibly, but LVM volumes may be a sticking point | 16:50 |
| renuka | This will also make things easier when we introduce more drivers into the play for multiple backends, right | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | Have to see what DuncanT has in mind | 16:50 |
| bswartz | renuka: is there are blueprint for the multiple backends thing? | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | renuka: I don't know that it will make the multi back-ends much different | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | renuka: No, I don't have that in mind | 16:51 |
| renuka | not sure if there is today. We always spoke of this as a future feature | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: rnirmal is working on that, I think he's going to hav a BP today or tomorrow | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: You around? | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | renuka: Just a config option you can turn on if you *know* your driver supports it | 16:51 |
| renuka | DuncanT: i see | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, sounds like everybody is going to be extremely busy the next week :) | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | Anything else before I wrap up? | 16:54 |
| Vincent_Hou | anyone finds vol-acl useful? | 16:54 |
| chalupaul | i have a futuristic question if there's time | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | vol-acl? Never heard of it | 16:54 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, i can give some status update on AZ | 16:54 |
| Vincent_Hou | i register a BP https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/volume-acl | 16:55 |
| chalupaul | what are your guys thoughts on shared volumes? like, being able to mount a volume on multiple instances for clustering stuff. | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | Vincent_Hou: I haven't decided what I think of that one yet | 16:55 |
| Vincent_Hou | ok | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | chalupaul: true SAN, sounds great but I don't think it's something for Foslom at all | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | Vincent_Hou: Any more details? Can we re-use the swift acl rules? | 16:56 |
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| jgriffith | chalupaul: Also not sure how you'd make that work w/iscsi | 16:56 |
| chalupaul | jgriffith: def not for folsom! But i've heard that there are polarized opinions on the matter :P | 16:56 |
| Vincent_Hou | not that much yet. just a thought on it. | 16:57 |
| chalupaul | yeah it would have to be driver specific | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | chalupaul: Mounting in several instances gets really hard regarding data consistency and ordering... | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | chalupaul: yes, FC shops especially... so now we're talking adding FC support etc | 16:57 |
| bswartz | chalupaul: the netapp driver already supports connecting a volume/lun to multiple instances | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | The problem isn't the storage device | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | That's easy to work around | 16:57 |
| chalupaul | yeah, but cinder will not let you attach to 2 places either | 16:58 |
| bswartz | chalupaul: yeah, the limitation is in the management layer / DB schema | 16:58 |
| chalupaul | not witohut changes to the database and how it figures out if volumes are "available" | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | I think it's something to consider for Grizzly | 16:58 |
| chalupaul | cool | 16:58 |
| chalupaul | i'll make a g1 blueprint with some thoughts | 16:58 |
| chalupaul | when the time is right | 16:58 |
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| jgriffith | sounds good | 16:58 |
| chalupaul | thanks, sorry for the grenade toss :P | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | chalupaul: LOL... nah, it's a good thing to have on the horizon | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | Vincent_Hou: Would be interested in seeing some use cases for vol_acl, but it looks interesting | 16:59 |
| dtynan | chalupaul: i like the idea of multiple, read-only boot volumes... :) | 16:59 |
| chalupaul | me too :D | 16:59 |
| Vincent_Hou | i will figure out something more. | 16:59 |
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| jgriffith | ok, anything else real quick? | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | alright, thanks everyone | 17:00 |
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| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings for schedule and http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/ for meeting logs" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 8 17:00:49 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-08-08-16.02.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-08-08-16.02.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-08-08-16.02.log.html | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | Thanks John | 17:00 |
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