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| nijaba | o/ | 15:58 |
|---|---|---|
| dhellmann | o/ | 16:00 |
| jd___ | o/ | 16:00 |
| nijaba | #startmeeting | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 5 16:00:13 2012 UTC. The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| nijaba | #meetingtopic Ceilometer | 16:00 |
| nijaba | #chair nijaba | 16:00 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 16:00 |
| nijaba | #info jd__ will unfortunately not be able to join us this week | 16:00 |
| nijaba | Hello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting? | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 16:00 | |
| nijaba | o/ | 16:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: nijaba | 16:00 |
| jd___ | o/ | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 16:00 |
| nijaba | jd___: I thought you could not join? | 16:00 |
| nijaba | nice to see you! | 16:00 |
| jd___ | for now I can, I may leave early | 16:00 |
| nijaba | flacoste: around? | 16:00 |
| flacoste | i am | 16:01 |
| flacoste | o/ | 16:01 |
| nijaba | ok, great!, let's start! | 16:01 |
| nijaba | #topic actions from previous meetings | 16:01 |
| nijaba | I don't see any action from the last meeting. Did I miss anything? | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meetings (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 16:01 | |
| dhellmann | IIRC the only thing that carried over was the discussion of the incubation proposal | 16:01 |
| flacoste | yep | 16:01 |
| nijaba | ok, we have that as a topic for today | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | well, that and "keep working on the code" :-) | 16:02 |
| nijaba | hehe | 16:02 |
| nijaba | #topic Discuss and vote the incubation application proposal to be submitted to PPB | 16:02 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Projects/IncubatorApplicationCeilometer | 16:02 |
| nijaba | Any remarks before we vote on this? | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss and vote the incubation application proposal to be submitted to PPB (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 16:02 | |
| dhellmann | I think it looks good, but do we have examples of the proposals other projects have put up (especially successful proposals)? | 16:02 |
| jd___ | looks good to me | 16:03 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: I don't think there has been any... | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | ceilometer: breaking new ground, yet again | 16:03 |
| nijaba | shall we vote then? | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | yes | 16:03 |
| nijaba | #startvote Submit the incubation application to the PPB? Yes, No | 16:03 |
| nijaba | Please note that to register a vote you have to use #vote yes or #vote no | 16:03 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Submit the incubation application to the PPB? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 16:03 |
| nijaba | #vote yes | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | #vote yes | 16:04 |
| openstack | nijaba: yes is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:04 |
| openstack | dhellmann: yes is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | hahaha | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | #vote Yes | 16:04 |
| nijaba | #vote Yes | 16:04 |
| jd___ | #vote yes | 16:04 |
| openstack | jd___: yes is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:04 |
| nijaba | amazing these little tools... so picky ;) | 16:04 |
| jd___ | #vote Yes | 16:04 |
| jd___ | yeah yeah c'mon openstack! | 16:04 |
| flacoste | #vote yes | 16:04 |
| openstack | flacoste: yes is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:04 |
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| flacoste | ffs | 16:04 |
| flacoste | #vote Yes | 16:04 |
| * dhellmann lol | 16:05 | |
| nijaba | ok, that's a wrap for the vote | 16:05 |
| nijaba | #endvote | 16:05 |
| openstack | Voted on "Submit the incubation application to the PPB?" Results are | 16:05 |
| openstack | Yes (4): nijaba, dhellmann, jd___, flacoste | 16:05 |
| nijaba | So, I'll send a very formal email for our application ASAP | 16:05 |
| flacoste | thx! | 16:05 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to send an email to the PPB | 16:05 |
| nijaba | #topic PTL election process discussion | 16:06 |
| nijaba | When we had our first project meeting on April 26th, it was agreed that Loic Dachary and I would co-lead this project for the first 3 months. Time is soon up for those 3 months, so we should discuss what to do to. | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTL election process discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 16:06 | |
| dhellmann | nijaba, is that a publicly readable mailing list? | 16:06 |
| nijaba | it is, yes | 16:06 |
| nijaba | the archives are | 16:06 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/Model#Governance%20for%20the%20Individual%20OpenStack%20Projects | 16:06 |
| nijaba | #link http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html | 16:06 |
| nijaba | #link http://www.opavote.org/ | 16:06 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/Foundation/TechnicalCommittee | 16:06 |
| nijaba | I propose that we: | 16:06 |
| nijaba | 1/ Make a call for candidate next week, asking for applicants to do so on the general mailing list | 16:06 |
| nijaba | 2/ Open a one week voting period from July 26th til Aug 2nd | 16:06 |
| nijaba | 3/ Use the opavote voting as it is less likely to produce ex-aequo | 16:06 |
| nijaba | 4/ Limit voters and candidates to people that have contributed either to the code or to the wiki pages for ceilometer prior to the call for candidates | 16:06 |
| nijaba | Comments? Remarks? Suggestions? | 16:06 |
| * jd___ checks opavote | 16:07 | |
| dhellmann | the voting limits seem appropriate. do you already have a list of who those people are? | 16:07 |
| * nijaba waits a couple minutes for people to digest | 16:07 | |
| nijaba | dhellmann: nope | 16:07 |
| flacoste | nijaba: sounds good to me | 16:08 |
| nijaba | but it would not be too hard to compile | 16:08 |
| jd___ | not that many I guess | 16:08 |
| jd___ | what's the voting system for other PTL elections? | 16:08 |
| nijaba | they were using civs, but are about to switch to opa | 16:08 |
| jd___ | ok, that seems fine anyway :) | 16:09 |
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| nijaba | looks like we have a general agreement then? Should we formally vote on this? | 16:10 |
| jd___ | yes and if you want yes | 16:10 |
| jd___ | :) | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | yes | 16:10 |
| nijaba | #startvote go ahead with the proposed PTL election process? Yes, No | 16:11 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: go ahead with the proposed PTL election process? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 16:11 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 16:11 |
| dhellmann | #vote Yes | 16:11 |
| nijaba | #vote Yes | 16:11 |
| jd___ | #vote Yes | 16:11 |
| flacoste | #vote Yes | 16:11 |
| nijaba | #endvote | 16:12 |
| openstack | Voted on "go ahead with the proposed PTL election process?" Results are | 16:12 |
| openstack | Yes (4): nijaba, dhellmann, jd___, flacoste | 16:12 |
| nijaba | cool. Do you want me to take the call for candidate action? | 16:12 |
| nijaba | however, I'll be off until the 28th, so someone else will need to do the opa setup | 16:12 |
| nijaba | volunteers? | 16:12 |
| jd___ | I probably can do this | 16:13 |
| nijaba | thanks jd___ | 16:13 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to send call for candidate to the general mailing list | 16:13 |
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| nijaba | #action jd___ to setup opa voting system to start on 26th and end on Aug 3rd | 16:14 |
| nijaba | ok, moving on | 16:14 |
| nijaba | #topic Discuss project's next priorities | 16:14 |
| nijaba | This topic was suggested by dhellmann, so I let him drive it | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss project's next priorities (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 16:14 | |
| dhellmann | Thanks, nijaba. | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | It seems to me like we've reached another milestone now that we can actually store data. There are a couple of different directions we can go from here, either one at a time or in parallel. | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | There are still quite a few plugins to write, and code to integrate with other projects (especially for notifications, but also for polling). | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | We need to build the API server. | 16:16 |
| nijaba | I think we may need additional agents too? | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | yes, good point, we may need other agents depending on where the plugins need to run | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | we need at least one more for polling services through their REST APIs | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | we may also want to implement another db backend to ensure that the plugin layer API is not mongodb-specific | 16:17 |
| nijaba | I think we need to list these items on a roadmap wiki page, linking to bugs, that people can assign themselves to... | 16:17 |
| jd___ | nijaba: +1 | 16:17 |
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| dhellmann | good idea | 16:17 |
| flacoste | indeed | 16:17 |
| nijaba | and then publicise it to try to recruit new coders | 16:17 |
| nijaba | that was the idea behing documenting how to write pludgins | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | I would like to finish writing some more dev docs before we try to recruit too many more contributors -- I am doing that today and hope to have a patch ready for review tomorrow | 16:18 |
| nijaba | sounds great | 16:18 |
| nijaba | Should we start a general action to have a ceilometer/roadmap page populated? | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 16:19 |
| nijaba | I can prime it | 16:19 |
| flacoste | yes | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | does anyone have any strong opinion about what we should make our next priority? | 16:19 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to prime a roadmap page and invite others to populate it | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | I would like to have the data going end-to-end (agent -> collector -> db -> api -> consumer) soon | 16:20 |
| flacoste | yeah | 16:20 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: I'd think swift, but that will not match what YOU will want ;) | 16:20 |
| jd___ | probably the API server | 16:20 |
| flacoste | i think the api server is probably the missing piece there | 16:20 |
| jd___ | and implement the meter type as we discussed several time I think it's still missing | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | nijaba, we'll get swift done, don't worry :-) | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | jd___ there's a field in the meter messages for "type" but nothing actually uses it right now | 16:21 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: leave something for flacoste's team when it get there :) | 16:21 |
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| jd___ | dhellmann: yeah, I should really tackle this down instead of talking about it | 16:21 |
| flacoste | nijaba: it's getting there :-) | 16:21 |
| nijaba | jd___: feel free to assign an action to yourself ;) | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | nijaba, if flacoste wants to work on swift we can wait | 16:21 |
| jd___ | #action jd___ handle counter/meter type for real | 16:22 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: I suspect you will want to do someting with some other tech ;) | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | nijaba, yeah, I think ceph already has some monitoring in place, but that's up to another team to handle for now. :-) | 16:23 |
| nijaba | k | 16:23 |
| nijaba | ok, should we move on? | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | yes, I'm done and it sounds like we have a good plan for working out what to do next | 16:23 |
| nijaba | #topic Open Discusssion | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discusssion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 16:24 | |
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| nijaba | I have one: External API. Based on the mailing list discussion | 16:24 |
| nijaba | #link http://openstack.markmail.org/thread/fwkagzdzpleeclj5 | 16:24 |
| nijaba | I believe we reached an agreement on the purpose and limitations of the API, but wanted to make sure we were... | 16:24 |
| flacoste | nijaba: i really appreciated your clarification email | 16:24 |
| jd___ | I think so, for now at least :) | 16:24 |
| flacoste | and agree with it | 16:24 |
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| nijaba | flacoste: thanks :) | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | yes, nijaba, thank you for that! | 16:25 |
| nijaba | I am assigning myself a documentation task for the API with a clear warning about the limitation of the sum and duration function | 16:25 |
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| nijaba | #action nijaba to document external API use with a clear warning about the limitation of the sum and duration function | 16:25 |
| nijaba | well, actually, I will start a doc, which will have to wait for completion hat we have something coded :) | 16:26 |
| nijaba | does anyone want want to bring something else? | 16:27 |
| * dhellmann shakes head no | 16:27 | |
| nijaba | sounds like a wrap... | 16:27 |
| nijaba | 5 | 16:27 |
| nijaba | 4 | 16:27 |
| nijaba | 3 | 16:27 |
| nijaba | 2 | 16:27 |
| nijaba | 1 | 16:27 |
| nijaba | #endmeeting | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings for schedule and http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/ for meeting logs" | 16:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 5 16:27:40 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-05-16.00.html | 16:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-05-16.00.txt | 16:27 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-05-16.00.log.html | 16:27 |
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| jd___ | thanks guys! | 16:27 |
| nijaba | thanks everyone! nice and smoth! | 16:27 |
| nijaba | smooth too! | 16:27 |
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| dhellmann | thanks, everyone! | 16:30 |
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| jaypipes | afternoone QAers. | 17:00 |
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| davidkranz | Good afternoon. | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: feel like running the meeting today? | 17:01 |
| davidkranz | July 4 on Wednesday should be banned. | 17:01 |
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| dwalleck | davidkranz: +++++++++ | 17:01 |
| dwalleck | it's totally messing me up | 17:02 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: OK | 17:02 |
| davidkranz | Any one else here? | 17:02 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Do you have any comments about commonly used extensions in smoke tests? | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | #startmeeting | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 5 17:03:05 2012 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| * jaypipes currently doing the code review on rohit's branch. | 17:03 | |
| dwalleck | davidkranz: Not completely yet. I know it's a slippery slope to say which extensions are core and which are not. Unless there's a good criteria we can use | 17:04 |
| * dwalleck is coughing his lungs back out | 17:04 | |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz, dwalleck: I don't have any problems per-se with dwalleck's smoke testing refactor/speedup branch. I still prefer smoke tests to be slighly different, with a sequential set of steps that follow numerous API calls (not just limited to servers or images or keypairs, etc | 17:04 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: I think that makes some sense. We have to make sure that the smoke tests keep up with new apis. | 17:05 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Well, this was an initial, immediate solution | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Sure. The reason I like Jay's suggestion is that the requirement that smoke test cases have to be subsets of full coverage is limiting. | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: oh, I totally understand (and support the patch) | 17:06 |
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| davidkranz | dwalleck: If we adopt the scripted actions then we can control the use of expensive functions in a better way I think. | 17:07 |
| dwalleck | davidkranz: What do you mean by scripted actions? | 17:07 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: sorry, could you elaborate on "adopt the scripted actions"? | 17:07 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: oh, I think I know what you mean... | 17:07 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Sorry, I just meant the kind of thing Jay was saying. | 17:07 |
| * dwalleck is getting confused. I need more cold medicine. Or less | 17:07 | |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: you mean "adopt practice of using sequential series of common actions" | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | :) | 17:08 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Yes :) | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: you shouldn't live with a cat if you have allergies :P | 17:08 |
| dwalleck | My concern is how we control the flow of that. I know the numerical test ordering works, but I'd like to see something more explicit if we're really going to go in and fix this | 17:08 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Cats came with the fiance, no choice :-) | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: I'm actually more in favour of creating separate smoke tests entirely from the positive./negative/detailed test cases we currently have... | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: and these smoke tests would be simply sequential test methods (named test_00X_blah) that would exercise the default or common API actions | 17:10 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Right. I think what I'm trying to ask is what they will look like | 17:10 |
| dwalleck | which you just said :-) | 17:10 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: I think Jay included an example in the code Rohit took over. | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | cool. well, actually, rohit's patch actually used my original smoke test branch as a base... | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | so it might be worth looking into that next (after dwalleck's intermediate patch goes in) | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | and once we have that, we should modify the jenkins job to fire ./run_tests.sh --smoke instead of the whole shebangh | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | you guys agree with that? | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | so, these steps: | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: But we would still run the whole thing nightly, right? | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | 1) get dwalleck's patch for decreasing time of smoke down | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | 2) edit the jenkins job to run smoke only | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | 3) work on merging in rohit's patch | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | 4) set up the separate jenkins "slave jobs" that would fire the entire test suite | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | that amenable to you guys? | 17:13 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Sounds good | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: ? | 17:13 |
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| davidkranz | jaypipes: What about soft reboot? It takes 2.5 minutes for me. Doesn't it kill you, and should it be in the smoke test? | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: ah, goood point... | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: there was one tiny mistake in your patch to fix. What about fixing the soft reboot thing while you fix that mistake? | 17:14 |
| dwalleck | In general I'm on board. I have concerns with using test naming as a means of ordering | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: basically, make sure only hard reboot is in any smoke tests... | 17:14 |
| davidkranz | i don't understand how Daryl got the time down so low if he has the same issue with soft reboot. | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: still takes around 5 minutes IIRC | 17:14 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Not sure what you mean by fix soft reboot. it's currently commented out | 17:14 |
| dwalleck | Fix as in add back in? | 17:15 |
| jaypipes | hmmm... | 17:15 |
| jaypipes | one sec, lemme double-check. | 17:15 |
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| davidkranz | dwalleck: Arg. I forgot I did that! | 17:15 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: We wouldn't want to see any negative tests in smoke suite right? | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | rohitk: Right. | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: correct | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: yes, dwalleck is correct. it is skipped. | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: verified. line 69 in test_servers_actions.py | 17:16 |
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| jaypipes | ok, ok. | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Yeah. I withdrew the skipping from my first commit but then we agreed it should be skipped because the spec is such a mess anyhway. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | yup | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | alright, you three (rohit, david, daryl): are we good to try and get #1 through #3 above done TODAY? | 17:24 |
| * jaypipes can handle the review on rohitk's branch as well as the jenkins changes... | 17:24 | |
| jaypipes | in fact, I can get the jenkins changes sorted in the next hour or so... | 17:24 |
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| jaypipes | going to ask jeblair for some help in resetting the data on the Tempest job after it switches to run smoke tests by default | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Sounds good. | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | What about the issue of gating Tempest itself? | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: Tempest is already gated, but only on pep8 :( | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | We still need a way to make sure tempest doesn't get broken. | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | But we can't really run the whole thing. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: yeah, but unfortunately, it's not so easy... but I will work with jeblair on some options | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: the reason is because of the interdependencies in the way that the job gets triggered... | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | but regardless, I will chat with the CI team and see what we can do. | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: We may have to live with a nightly run. | 17:24 |
| dwalleck | brb, cat's on fire | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | lol | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: I just want there to be clarity on code reviews. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: perhaps -- but let's wait and see what's possible. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: agreed 100% | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: sure, let's see. BUt I think we should require that code reviewers *Not* have to think they are gonig to find every runtime bug that might happen. | 17:24 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: ++ | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: We will have to rely on the judgement of submitters that they run the right subset before checkin. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: let me chat with jeblair about the options here... perhaps we could have a commit to Tempest trigger the entire test suite and a commit to the core projects trigger only the smoke run? And also do nightly snapshot against full tempest? | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: That would be ideal but I am concerned that running the entire test suite will still consume too many resources. | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: We could have a 'slow' attribute that is skipped by everything but nightly tests. I have done that in past projects. | 17:25 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: but we don't want change to tempest passing the *tempest gate* that don't pass all tempest tests, right? | 17:26 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: the number of changes to tempest right now isn't all that much. I think I'd prefer to err on the side of correctness vs. efficiency for the tempest gate | 17:26 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: OK, let's give it a shot. We can deal with the issue later if necessary. | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | indeed. | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQE: any update for us, my man? | 17:27 |
| JoseSwiftQE | I looked over the review just this morning | 17:27 |
| JoseSwiftQE | What do you suggest for the rest client re: headers=None? | 17:28 |
| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQE: I was just saying that you can remove the =None on that particular line and pass in headers=headers | 17:28 |
| JoseSwiftQE | Ah, so that way it uses in the restclient default headers? | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQE: since the way it is now, you're overriding anything passed in to the function in the header param.. | 17:29 |
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| jaypipes | right | 17:29 |
| JoseSwiftQE | that makes sense, thanks. | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | ya, no worries | 17:29 |
| davidkranz | Should we move on to the testing Folsom features issue? | 17:29 |
| JoseSwiftQE | sure, i'm done | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | yes, let's. | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | #topic Testing new features when they come around | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing new features when they come around" | 17:30 | |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: floor is yours | 17:30 |
| davidkranz | I think the first thing is to get the ptls to tell us when things are ready for "outsider" testing. | 17:30 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: that won't happen unless we bug them :) | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: so we need a point person in the QA team (perhaps for each core project) that will bug the PTLs (in status meetings, on IRC, on ML, etc) | 17:31 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Right. | 17:31 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: But I hope the PTLs will quickly decide it is easier to make a habit of "releasing" features to QA when they are ready in a proactive way. | 17:32 |
| dwalleck | cat longer on fire, back | 17:32 |
| rohitk | davidkranz: ++ | 17:32 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: agreed. in order for PTLs to decide that we should have our process (of QA validation of new features) by explicit and well-defined on the wiki. | 17:33 |
| davidkranz | davidkranz: I don't have a good feel for how the PTLs view the QA situation. Are they happy with the current state of affairs? | 17:33 |
| dwalleck | davidkranz: While I agree on the idea, I'm wondering if we shouldn't be a bit more agile and start working on testing as the features are being worked on | 17:33 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: totally different between core projects (which is part fo the problem) | 17:33 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: oh, I agree with that. | 17:33 |
| dwalleck | But I know, baby steps | 17:33 |
| jaypipes | :) | 17:34 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: I didn't mean to imply otherwise. | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | all: http://etherpad.openstack.org/QaNewFeatureValidation | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | let's doc it up and then transfer to the wiki... | 17:34 |
| dwalleck | davidkranz: well, you said releasing to QA, it just sounded linear | 17:34 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: It's just that until a certain point, they rightly don't want to get bugged by questions about things that are still really in flux. | 17:34 |
| dwalleck | fair deal | 17:34 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Really this means when devs think an active QA involvement would be helpful. | 17:35 |
| jaypipes | let's doc it up and then transfer to the wiki... | 17:35 |
| jaypipes | all: http://etherpad.openstack.org/QaNewFeatureValidation | 17:36 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: OK. My concern is that in every project I have worked on, there were developers who need to be reminded of the imoprtance of early QA involvement. | 17:36 |
| davidkranz | Sometime I was one of those developers :) | 17:37 |
| rohitk | Tracking how many bugs Tempest tests have found in Openstack would be a good way to please(or bug) the devs | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: sure, no disagreement from me. | 17:37 |
| davidkranz | rohitk: Sure. The earlier Tempest is involved, the more bugs it will find. | 17:38 |
| rohitk | we could probably tag 'tempest' in such bugs or just denote the test in the bug description(guess most of us do that already) | 17:38 |
| rohitk | davidkranz: true | 17:38 |
| davidkranz | rohitk: Yeah. I am not sure we need a special tag for that. | 17:39 |
| davidkranz | So I think we need the following things: | 17:39 |
| davidkranz | 1. Work with PTLs to identify blueprints | 17:40 |
| davidkranz | 2. Assign people to follow | 17:40 |
| davidkranz | 3. Add QA info to the blueprint | 17:40 |
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| davidkranz | 4. Document theh process. | 17:40 |
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| davidkranz | I think we would get a long way with just that. | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: before 3., we need to flesh out precisely what information QA should track for each blueprint | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: which is the reason for the questions on the etherpad :) | 17:41 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Right. It would be incredibly helpful if each PTL could give a small amount of mindshare to this. | 17:41 |
| dwalleck | I think it would be helpful if the blueprint could describe at least the acceptance criteria for functionality that should work as part of a blueprint | 17:41 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: how about we use Quantum or Glance as a guinea pig here? both of those PTLs have expressed interest in keener coop with QA | 17:42 |
| dwalleck | And if not in the blueprint, then somewhere. I think if that's decided between dev and qa, then it makes the testing phase much less painful | 17:42 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Can you bring this up at one of the weekly meetings? | 17:42 |
| jaypipes | well, vishy has too, but Nova is kinda huge... better to start smaller :) | 17:42 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: I can definitely do that (as can you!) :) | 17:43 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Agreed. Since you used to be the PTL of glance, maybe we should start with that? | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: blueprint is the perfect place to log this kind of stuff (QA deliverables) | 17:43 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Or we could do both. | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | we just need to create a template of QA devliverables that QA team members can follow when assigned to a BP | 17:43 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Yes, let's fill in the etherpad and then discuss more. | 17:44 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: I think perhaps it might be easier to just pick a blueprint from Nova and then use it to create the template we use | 17:44 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: let me choose one. gimme a couple minutes. dwalleck, rohitk, davidkranz in the meantime, please add tot hose etherpad questions | 17:44 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: sorry, could you share the etherpad link, bit lost on that | 17:45 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: http://etherpad.openstack.org/QaNewFeatureValidation | 17:45 |
| rohitk | thanks | 17:45 |
| jaypipes | f course :) | 17:45 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck, davidkranz, rohitk: what do you guys think of this one? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/task-management | 17:46 |
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| jaypipes | I think it's perfect. It's a) important, b) easily testable, and c) represents something that has already been a pain in the ass for the QA teasm | 17:47 |
| jaypipes | and Yun is a colleague of mine :) | 17:47 |
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| davidkranz | jaypipes: ++ | 17:48 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: good candidate | 17:48 |
| dwalleck | yes, that is very helpful! | 17:48 |
| jaypipes | ok, excellent. | 17:49 |
| davidkranz | So we create a process around this blueprint | 17:49 |
| jaypipes | let's use this as the example | 17:49 |
| dwalleck | Plus it should help the doc team when they want to document the functionality. win/win/win | 17:49 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: right | 17:49 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: yeah, exactly, especially this particular blueprint! | 17:49 |
| davidkranz | When we are ready, we advertise it as a general mechanism and try to get more people to sign on to "own" blueprints. | 17:49 |
| * dwalleck still cries tears over the admin api | 17:49 | |
| davidkranz | That moves us in the direction of more "QA in the open". | 17:50 |
| jaypipes | just asked Yun to join us... | 17:50 |
| jaypipes | need to work with developer as much as possible... that's the whole point in this. | 17:50 |
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| jaypipes | maoy: hi! :) | 17:50 |
| maoy | jaypipes: yo | 17:50 |
| jaypipes | maoy: so, you've been chosen as the lucky QA winner this week. | 17:50 |
| jaypipes | maoy: :) | 17:50 |
| jaypipes | maoy: let me fill you in. | 17:50 |
| maoy | jaypipes: is the price a new ipad? jk | 17:51 |
| jaypipes | maoy: no, a new etherpad :) | 17:51 |
| rohitk | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/9059/1/tempest/tests/whitebox/compute/test_servers.py kind of tests the yun's new state mgmt | 17:51 |
| jaypipes | maoy: basically, the QA team (in whose weekly meeting you are now in) is really keen to work better and closer with developers working on blueprints | 17:51 |
| jaypipes | maoy: for reference: http://etherpad.openstack.org/QaNewFeatureValidation | 17:51 |
| jaypipes | maoy: and we have chosen your blueprint (task-management) as the blueprint to use as an example for better QA coordination with development | 17:52 |
| jaypipes | maoy: since you are such a kick-ass engineer, we figured you'd be cool with being a guinea pig ;) | 17:52 |
| maoy | jaypipes: i see. sounds good. | 17:53 |
| jaypipes | maoy: The QA team wants to make sure that for each major blueprint, there are QA deliverables attached to the blueprint in question that represent tasks for QA and development to work on together. | 17:53 |
| jaypipes | maoy: these tasks will mostly be: | 17:53 |
| jaypipes | 1) Identifying any changes in API requests or responses | 17:53 |
| jaypipes | 2) Identifying any change in call behaviour | 17:53 |
| jaypipes | 3) Ensuring tests in Tempest fully cover the change areas | 17:54 |
| jaypipes | That's basically it... but we want to be a lot more methodical about how we coordinate. thus, we're using the task-management blueprint as an example | 17:54 |
| davidkranz | 4) Ensuring proper allocation of unit tests and tempests tests based on aarchitectural knowledge | 17:54 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: ++ | 17:55 |
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| jaypipes | maoy: which we hope is OK, since most of the work on the blueprint is completed, but we still need to check that functional integration testing is fully covering the new and changed task states | 17:55 |
| davidkranz | rohitk: Would you be willing to take this as you have already dived in? | 17:56 |
| jaypipes | maoy: OK, so that's the story. Nothing for you to do right now -- just letting you know you will likely see us updating the blueprint with a set of tasks for QA (and some for you) to work on | 17:56 |
| rohitk | davidkranz: Sure, I can | 17:56 |
| maoy | jaypipes: cool. | 17:56 |
| jaypipes | maoy: and hopefully, if all goes to plan, we can present the workflow at the weekly status meeting with the PTL next week. | 17:56 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: the other thing I thought of is: 5) Coordinate all findings with doc team to ensure changes to documentation correspond to changes in code | 17:58 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Yes, Daryl snuck that in a few minutes ago. | 17:58 |
| jaypipes | rock. | 17:58 |
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| davidkranz | The QA person can also be a more technical interface between doc team and dev. | 17:59 |
| jaypipes | OK, well it's time to wrap up the meeting. I feel we got some good stuff done here today... | 17:59 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: ++ | 17:59 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: question | 17:59 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: go for it. | 17:59 |
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| rohitk | jaypipes: tempest stable/essex hasn't changed since Apr 13 | 17:59 |
| rohitk | are we backporting core changes into it? | 17:59 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: besides the patch that went in today? ;) | 18:00 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: yup | 18:00 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: feel free to backport changes to it. | 18:00 |
| davidkranz | rohitk: I think with all the refactoring it would be pretty painful. | 18:00 |
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| rohitk | davidkranz: exactly, i found quite painful | 18:00 |
| jaypipes | alright fellas, gonna close up this meeting... | 18:00 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: okie! | 18:00 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings for schedule and http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/ for meeting logs" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 5 18:00:59 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-05-17.03.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-05-17.03.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-05-17.03.log.html | 18:01 |
| rohitk | cya | 18:01 |
| jaypipes | I think there's another meeting starting now... | 18:01 |
| jaypipes | alright y'all keep updating that Etherpad (as will I) and focus on making that template for use int eh blueprints | 18:01 |
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