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| jaypipes | #startmeeting | 17:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 12 17:00:39 2012 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | morning all. | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | or afternoon. :) | 17:00 |
| davidkranz_ | Hi there. | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: heya | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: been kinda swamped this week and haven't been able to get the tempest devstack gate job completed. did debug it and make progress, but still need someone to push through some devstack and devstack-gate merge proposals. :( | 17:02 |
| davidkranz_ | I understand. Some times this environment can feel like molasses. | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: need to get the final fix in for https://review.openstack.org/#change,6301 | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: indeed. | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: anything you want to discuss today? | 17:03 |
| davidkranz_ | Just one thing. | 17:03 |
| davidkranz_ | I think we should file a bug for any ERROR in the logs that does not represent an OpenStack bug or operator error or problem. | 17:04 |
| davidkranz_ | What do you think? | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | + | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | sorry, typo. | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | yes, I definitely agree with that. as I've gotten more experience operating trystack and running devstack + tempest I would really appreciate little things like that! | 17:05 |
| davidkranz_ | OK, I will push on that at the devops sessions next week. We need the PTLs to buy in and establish conventions for the meaning of log files. | 17:06 |
| davidkranz_ | So they can be both human and machine readable as needed. | 17:06 |
| davidkranz_ | And we need a stable/essex tempest branch. There are already some differences needed. | 17:07 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: ah, crap, yes... I will submit a ticket. | 17:07 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Perhaps all PTLs should have to operate trystack for a few days :) | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/980071 | 17:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 980071 in openstack-ci "Tempest needs stable/essex branch" [Undecided,New] | 17:08 |
| davidkranz_ | OK, great. | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: lol. I wouldn't wish that on the PTLs ;P | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: maybe once Essex is done for TryStack... | 17:08 |
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| davidkranz_ | I don't have anything else right now. | 17:10 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: alright, let's wrap it up then | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 17:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 17:11 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 12 17:11:46 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:11 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-17.00.html | 17:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-17.00.txt | 17:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-17.00.log.html | 17:11 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 12 18:02:28 2012 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 18:02 |
| jgriffith | Hey folks! | 18:02 |
| jgriffith | Anybody show up today? | 18:03 |
| DuncanT | I'm here | 18:03 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I can always count on you :) | 18:03 |
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| DuncanT | Nothing to talk about though... saving it all for next week | 18:03 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I was going to hit you up to doa presentation on the Glance backend work you did | 18:04 |
| jgriffith | Ran out of time slots though... | 18:04 |
| jgriffith | Would you be interested in doing something in an unconference session maybe? | 18:04 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: It wasn't me that got anything there working | 18:04 |
| jgriffith | Oh? | 18:04 |
| jgriffith | My bad... It must've been JDurgin | 18:05 |
| DuncanT | Somebody certainly said they had last week | 18:05 |
| jgriffith | Pofa | 18:05 |
| jdurgin | oh, I'm here | 18:05 |
| DuncanT | I bought up the topic and had some musings, but nothing concrete | 18:05 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin: Was it you that mentioned the glance/ceph work last week? | 18:05 |
| jdurgin | yeah | 18:06 |
| jgriffith | Ahh... sorry, confused that with DuncanT | 18:06 |
| jdurgin | no worries | 18:06 |
| jgriffith | Did you see my question about the conference? | 18:06 |
| jdurgin | yeah, I'm not sure there's much to talk about it - it's pretty simple | 18:07 |
| jgriffith | jdgurgin: Ok.... just a thought | 18:07 |
| jdurgin | but if people are interested I'm happy to discuss it | 18:07 |
| jgriffith | Was actually thinking more along the lines of setting it up/using it | 18:07 |
| jgriffith | Maybe spin up devstack on some lap-tops and make it dance or something | 18:07 |
| jgriffith | No big deal, just a thought | 18:08 |
| jgriffith | Ok, well I don't know if anybody has much going on today.... | 18:08 |
| jgriffith | Mostly getting ready for next week on my side | 18:08 |
| jgriffith | The volume UUID migration is pretty much done but I have 3 tests that are kicking my butt | 18:09 |
| jgriffith | Other than that, all of the Volume tracks are on sched.org | 18:10 |
| jgriffith | And the etherpads have been created and linked on the wiki page | 18:10 |
| jgriffith | http://wiki.openstack.org/FolsomSummitEtherpads | 18:11 |
| jgriffith | Guess we'll call it a short meeting | 18:11 |
| jdurgin | cool, see you next week | 18:12 |
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| DuncanT | Looking forward to it | 18:12 |
| jgriffith | Yeah, it'll be great to meet everybody face to face. | 18:12 |
| jgriffith | Travel safe and see ya Monday!! | 18:13 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 18:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 12 18:13:29 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-18.02.html | 18:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-18.02.txt | 18:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-18.02.log.html | 18:13 |
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| n0ano | hello all, anyone here for the orchestration meeting? | 20:02 |
| sriramhere | n0ano, me here | 20:02 |
| maoy | hi | 20:02 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 12 20:02:34 2012 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 20:02 |
| n0ano | #topic get ready for the session next week | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "get ready for the session next week" | 20:02 | |
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| n0ano | So, sriramhere (since you did all the work) are we ready for the session next week? | 20:03 |
| sriramhere | looks like Ziad has some notes on SpiffWorkflow | 20:03 |
| sriramhere | i couldnt make much progress on SWF mock :( - pressure to deliver some work before i take a week off for the summit | 20:04 |
| sriramhere | maoy - any updates on ur side? | 20:04 |
| sriramhere | Ziad's notes: http://wiki.openstack.org/NovaOrchestration/WorkflowEngines/SpiffWorkflow | 20:04 |
| maoy | i'm preparing another session on concurrency | 20:05 |
| maoy | but i'd like to present a few slides during the session if possible | 20:05 |
| maoy | i mean the orchestration session | 20:05 |
| n0ano | I would imagine that should be fine, sriramhere do you have slides you'll present? | 20:06 |
| maoy | what's the format of our session? | 20:06 |
| maoy | do we have an agenda? | 20:06 |
| sriramhere | i am putting some intro/ explaining current thought processes. WIll be done by tomorrow | 20:06 |
| n0ano | will you put that in the blueprint | 20:07 |
| sriramhere | i would like to talk to you all about what we want to talk during the session | 20:07 |
| sriramhere | yes, i will | 20:07 |
| sriramhere | we had 3 topics considered/ wanted to be talked about during session | 20:07 |
| n0ano | then I think we can use the BP as the guide to the agenda | 20:07 |
| sriramhere | stepping back - this is a brainstorming session | 20:07 |
| sriramhere | also, my first. can one of u tell me what to expect during the brainstorming session? | 20:08 |
| sriramhere | i am using the following link as guideline | 20:08 |
| n0ano | agreed, but having a little structure to the discussion is always good. | 20:08 |
| sriramhere | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmY4cK_6NKY | 20:08 |
| maoy | i only been to one summit before | 20:08 |
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| maoy | i think if the session chair (leader?) is organized with an agenda, it works much better | 20:09 |
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| n0ano | me too but we're allowed to be fairly loose | 20:09 |
| sriramhere | i like to have an agenda | 20:09 |
| sriramhere | that also helps to keep focussed. | 20:09 |
| n0ano | hence making sure the BP has the right outline then I think we'll be good | 20:09 |
| maoy | ok | 20:09 |
| sriramhere | what i am thinking now, ur suggestions d help me | 20:09 |
| sriramhere | is - to start with the need for orchestration. though most of us agree, this is to set the tone | 20:10 |
| sriramhere | then introduce some of the back ground work. this will include Ziad's and maoys., if any progress i can make on aws swf mock | 20:11 |
| * vishy jumps in | 20:11 | |
| sriramhere | then incude the things we want to hash out - api design | 20:11 |
| vishy | have you guys considered where the orchestration code will go? | 20:11 |
| sriramhere | open up brainstorming | 20:11 |
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| vishy | (I ask because with volume splitting out it might be nice to have some/all of the code in openstack-common | 20:12 |
| n0ano | vishy, not sure we've gone there yet beyond thinking that it'll be part of nova | 20:12 |
| sriramhere | u mean branch? general consensus so far is to have a branch | 20:12 |
| sriramhere | in terms of project, under nova. a separate sevice | 20:13 |
| maoy | vishy, we did talk about the orchestration as a general service independent of nova-core | 20:13 |
| vishy | n0ano: it could go into nova branch initiially, but it would be great if it is useful for volume and/or network | 20:13 |
| sriramhere | nova-orchestration. | 20:13 |
| vishy | that it eventually moves into openstack-common | 20:13 |
| vishy | similar to how rpc code is moving now | 20:13 |
| vishy | just wanted to put that thought in your heads, didn't mean to derail the meeting. | 20:14 |
| vishy | :) | 20:14 |
| maoy | 3 components: nova-orch (server side), nova-orch (client library), and modify existing nova code to utilize nova-orch client | 20:14 |
| sriramhere | vishy - i am hearing u suggest to keep this away from nova | 20:14 |
| n0ano | I like the idea of in the nova branch to begin with, keeping in mind that we might want to split out if it is useful for other projects. | 20:14 |
| vishy | maoy: hmm maybe we are discussing different things | 20:14 |
| vishy | I'm referring to the state management part of the code | 20:14 |
| vishy | as in workflow engine defining the states for a vm for example | 20:15 |
| vishy | that part will probably have to be in nova or integrated somehow | 20:15 |
| vishy | but it also applies to volumes and networks | 20:15 |
| n0ano | I thought that was where the spiff-workflow investigation applied | 20:15 |
| vishy | right, but nova-orch with a client library sounds like it is higher level orchestration | 20:16 |
| maoy | i think we are talking about the same thing.. | 20:16 |
| vishy | like using a bunch of services together | 20:16 |
| vishy | ah sorry i missed the last part of your sentence: modify existing nova code to utilize nova-orch client | 20:16 |
| sriramhere | so u like a nov-orch service, side by side with nova-volume, etc | 20:16 |
| vishy | that seems reasonable, as long as you keep it simple | 20:17 |
| n0ano | my only concern is would that too heavy weight for what we need | 20:17 |
| vishy | I see two approaches | 20:17 |
| sriramhere | but would like to keep it in openstakc-common? | 20:17 |
| vishy | 1) a totally separate service with a rest-api for state management | 20:17 |
| vishy | other servies use it | 20:17 |
| vishy | 2) a set of python libraries for state management | 20:17 |
| vishy | other services use it | 20:17 |
| vishy | i personally would lean towards 2 | 20:18 |
| vishy | you could always add 1 later | 20:18 |
| n0ano | personally, I like 2, maybe think about 1 later if needed | 20:18 |
| vishy | if it is going to be 2, openstack-common could be a good place for it to ultimately end up. | 20:18 |
| sriramhere | in 2, other services would just include/ use this library? | 20:18 |
| vishy | sriramhere: correct | 20:18 |
| n0ano | I think we're in violent agreement here | 20:19 |
| maoy | I feel 1) is a specific implementation of 2) | 20:19 |
| vishy | agreed | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | na0no - wait please | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | i am just typing | 20:19 |
| vishy | and it might be very cool long term | 20:19 |
| vishy | StateManagementaaS | 20:19 |
| vishy | or OrchestrationaaS | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | my only concern is orchestration layter may not sit on top if we need it to | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | if we are thinjking aaS, may be 1 is a better solution rt? | 20:20 |
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| n0ano | I think it's too early to do an aaS, walk before we run | 20:20 |
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| vishy | n0ano: +1 | 20:20 |
| sriramhere | i agree, was commenting to vishy's long term names | 20:21 |
| maoy | we should dive deeper in the summit, e.g. talk about the actual persistent storage layer for state we manage. e.g. mysql vs zookeeper | 20:21 |
| sriramhere | 2 is simple to start with - i agree. i think all agree to that | 20:21 |
| sriramhere | but is 2 going to be the end? and if we wan tto go towards1, how difficult would that be ? | 20:22 |
| n0ano | If we keep 1 in mind as an option then, hopefully, we won't make design decisions that make transitioning to that difficult | 20:23 |
| sriramhere | i like to have the ability to have orchestration running by itself | 20:23 |
| maoy | it's very hard to define 1 without having hands-on experience with 2 | 20:23 |
| sriramhere | n0ano - agreed | 20:24 |
| n0ano | comes back to maoy's point that 1 can be used as an implementation for 2 | 20:24 |
| sriramhere | rather on top of 2? | 20:24 |
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| n0ano | I see it as there are python APIs we create, they either execute python code (option 2 for now) or call out to a service (option 1 for later) | 20:25 |
| sriramhere | ok - looks like the consensus is to start with 2, but keep in mind 1 as an option | 20:25 |
| sriramhere | i personally would still servicify it | 20:26 |
| sriramhere | it may not be complex, but would like other services consider orch as a service. not library | 20:26 |
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| n0ano | to me, you call an API and what that API does is arbitrary | 20:27 |
| maoy | to make it as a service, you need to decide which functions live on the server, which live on the client. | 20:27 |
| maoy | if just having APIs, you can defer that decision. change it without changing the APIs | 20:28 |
| sriramhere | and it is better to answer the question sooner than later. else, it might be very difficult to do later | 20:28 |
| n0ano | giving us time to get some experience as to what is truly needed | 20:28 |
| sriramhere | ok - something the experienced can help here | 20:29 |
| maoy | sriramhere: rest service is nothing more than a specific way of remote API call semantics-wise | 20:29 |
| sriramhere | wat has been the experience so far - to rip out a library in to a service | 20:29 |
| sriramhere | maoy - i agree, and we can start with that. but this would force the other services not to consider this as a library, there by not making themselves too tied | 20:30 |
| sriramhere | i mean - just consider that as a rest end point. and it could be a light weight to begin with. | 20:30 |
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| sriramhere | as long as other services keep thinkint it as a service, we are better off, rt? | 20:31 |
| n0ano | I would hope that other services don't care, they want something done and the API does it, that's all that matters, not that it's a service | 20:31 |
| maoy | i don't think it matters.. | 20:32 |
| maoy | n0ano: agree | 20:32 |
| maoy | the drawback of API is that is language dependent | 20:32 |
| maoy | so you have to use Python. and upgrading is hard | 20:32 |
| maoy | not a problem in openstack now since every component is released together, all written in python | 20:33 |
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| sriramhere | pausing for a moment - what is the difficulty tht i am missing on wrapping a rest end point on these apis? | 20:33 |
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| n0ano | no difficulty, comes back to I'd like to see something very light weight to begin with before we decide we need an extra service | 20:34 |
| sriramhere | ok - everybody else seems to like to stat with 2. i will also go with it then for now. | 20:36 |
| n0ano | I think we'll have some good discussions at the session. | 20:36 |
| n0ano | Back to the seesion, I see the brief outline of the agenda as: | 20:37 |
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| n0ano | 1) Why orchestration is needed | 20:37 |
| n0ano | 2) Background | 20:37 |
| n0ano | 3) Current thoughts (3 topics) | 20:37 |
| sriramhere | so, this is another item to add for discussionduring summit | 20:37 |
| n0ano | certainly it would be appropriate | 20:37 |
| maoy | sounds great | 20:37 |
| maoy | do we know which day the session is on? | 20:38 |
| n0ano | I curious about that also | 20:38 |
| maoy | i guess it's still in flux then | 20:39 |
| sriramhere | i dont know tht e - as of yesterday night. | 20:39 |
| sriramhere | let me check quickly now | 20:39 |
| maoy | hopefully it won't conflict with my other sessionx | 20:39 |
| maoy | sessions | 20:40 |
| maoy | I guess that's it for today? | 20:40 |
| maoy | I'm excited | 20:40 |
| n0ano | that's all I have, looking forward to the summit | 20:41 |
| sriramhere | action items? | 20:41 |
| n0ano | #action sriramhere to finalize the BP | 20:41 |
| sriramhere | also , shall we ahve an offline sync by the week end just to make sure we have all ready for the summit? | 20:41 |
| n0ano | #action everyone to attend the session | 20:42 |
| sriramhere | this will include a slide deck | 20:42 |
| n0ano | sriramhere, we're all available via email, when you have the deck ready just send it out and we'll review | 20:42 |
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| sriramhere | works | 20:43 |
| n0ano | in that case, tnx everyone and we'll see you next week. | 20:43 |
| sriramhere | 5 pm on tuesday is ours | 20:43 |
| maoy | thx. bye | 20:43 |
| n0ano | excellent, now we know | 20:43 |
| maoy | who did you talk to to get that? | 20:43 |
| sriramhere | http://openstack.org/conference/san-francisco-2012/sessions/ | 20:43 |
| sriramhere | its updated | 20:43 |
| sriramhere | no conflicts that we know of now? | 20:44 |
| n0ano | I'm certainly good | 20:45 |
| maoy | nice. didn't know that link. no conflict from my end | 20:45 |
| sriramhere | other sesison is resource rationing in glance | 20:45 |
| sriramhere | same time i meant | 20:45 |
| sriramhere | ok then. | 20:45 |
| sriramhere | thanks, cya all next week | 20:45 |
| n0ano | later | 20:45 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 20:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 12 20:45:57 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-20.02.html | 20:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-20.02.txt | 20:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-04-12-20.02.log.html | 20:46 |
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