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| jaypipes | QA meeting in 19 minutes! | 16:42 |
|---|---|---|
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| jaypipes | good morning QAers :) | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | #startmeeting | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 1 17:00:37 2012 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 17:00 |
| Ravikumar_hp | good morning Jay | 17:00 |
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| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: morning :) | 17:00 |
| dwalleck | morning | 17:01 |
| JoseSwiftQA | :) | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | so... a quick status report from David Kranz and myself... | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | #topic status report on stable/diablo Tempest branch | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status report on stable/diablo Tempest branch" | 17:01 | |
| jaypipes | So, the stable/diablo branch of Tempest was created and is now under Gerrit's control | 17:01 |
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| donaldngo_hp | nice! | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | David and I have been working on fixes that allow Tempest to run against a Diablo environment smoothly. | 17:02 |
| Ravikumar_hp | great . it helps | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | Two fixes are already proposed against the branch: | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#q,status:open+project:openstack/tempest,n,z | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | if you look at the above link, you will see the branch listed in the Gerrit output | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | you can see there the two branches proposed for stable/diablo | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | reviews very welcome. | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | The big thing to point out is the following: | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | a) Tempest's test cases will definitely be different from the stable/diablo branch to the development branch | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | b) We had previously accepted a patch to development that added a "release" variable to tests that could be used to skip certain tests that failed on a particular release | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | c) That skipping strategy should no longer be used. Instead, simply apply your patch to a specific branch of Tempest that is built to run against a specific release of OpenStack | 17:05 |
| dwalleck | sounds like a much easier solution to me | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | Any questions on the above? It's any important distinction and a big step towards aligning with other core projects | 17:05 |
| Ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: question: where do we check-in common tests applicable for both ? | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: excellent question! :) glad you asked! | 17:06 |
| donaldngo_hp | so what this means is that if a bug is found in Essex Tempest then we need to see if needs to go into stable/Diablo | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: one sec, lemme answer ravi first... then I get to that one. | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | OK, so now that we're set up correctly in Gerrit, here is the process for adding a test that is common to multiple releases: | 17:07 |
| jaypipes | (and this is the same process for all core projects, so good to keep this in mind) | 17:07 |
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| jaypipes | 1) Always first propose a patch with your new test case to the development trunk (master) | 17:07 |
| jaypipes | 2) Once that patch is approved, then propose the same patch against stable/diablo | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | 2a) if any merge conflicts occur, of course, resolve those before proposing (or Gerrit will yell at you anyway :) | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | So, the flow is always master -> stable branches | 17:08 |
| Ravikumar_hp | thanks | 17:08 |
| donaldngo_hp | jay there is likely hood that the patch will be for the same test but differnt assertions | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: precisely correct. | 17:09 |
| donaldngo_hp | for example test_images.py minRam(Essex) and min_ram(Diablo) | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: correct. and that is exactly where you would change the test in the patch to stable/diablo to use min_ram instead of minRam | 17:10 |
| donaldngo_hp | i think what that means is 1) run you proposed patch on DevStack(Essex) and then run it on DevStack(Diablo) | 17:10 |
| donaldngo_hp | ok got it | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: this prevents all the if/else blocks on release variables... just apply the patch to correct release branch that makes sense for the API calls that release uses.. | 17:11 |
| donaldngo_hp | yep totally agree | 17:11 |
| dwalleck | Is there a way to force Devstack to create a Diablo instance? My concern is that since I'm not primarily testing against diablo, it's much easier for me to propose tests that may fail | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: another great question! :) | 17:11 |
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| jaypipes | dwalleck: indeed there is :) | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: let me demonstrate: | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | here are the steps I do when testing diablo locally | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | $> rm -rf /opt/stack && cd $devstack_dir && git checkout gerrit/stable/diablo && ./stack.sh | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | takes a while (since it needs to re-pull the branches), but it's guaranteed to be a clean diablo install\ | 17:13 |
| dwalleck | excellent! I can certainly do that | 17:13 |
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| donaldngo_hp | jaypipes: how do we shutdown DevStack I usually reboot my machine | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | OK, so the end goal here is, of course, to have diablo clusters tested autmatically through jenkins against a diablo Tempest (and of course, same for essex) | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: sudo killall screen | 17:13 |
| donaldngo_hp | sweet | 17:14 |
| dwalleck | and now I don't feel so bad for doing the same thing :) | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: there's actually a patch coming (to master devstack) that has a restart.sh script... keep an eye out for that | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: lol, hey, a reboot also works! :) | 17:14 |
| donaldngo_hp | dwalleck++ | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | but sudo killall screen is much, much faster ;) | 17:14 |
| Ravikumar_hp | we need also shutdown.sh | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: echo "sudo killall screen" > shutdown.sh ;) | 17:15 |
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| Ravikumar_hp | ok | 17:15 |
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| jaypipes | OK, let's change topic to discussion of individual merge proposals and bugs. anyone object? | 17:16 |
| Ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: we also need directories so as to group services | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: could you elaborate? | 17:16 |
| Ravikumar_hp | like nova , keystone, swift | 17:16 |
| Ravikumar_hp | tempest/tempest/tests/nova ... | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: talking about tempest or devstack? | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | gotcha... | 17:17 |
| Ravikumar_hp | we are planning to add keystone tests | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: well, when I added the Glance tests, I put them all under tempest/tests/images/ | 17:17 |
| dwalleck | I agree. I think I have a merge prop with a compute test subdirectory | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: so, when you add keystone tests, I would advise: tempest/tests/identity/ | 17:18 |
| Ravikumar_hp | sounds good | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | I just didn't want to move everything since it didn't have to do with that bug | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | anyone disagree with using the generic names in the tests directory? | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | Vara is also about to submit some keystone tests as well, need to check in with him | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | I did that to emphasize the tests are against the *API*, not the implementation... | 17:18 |
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| dwalleck | no, that sounds like it would be for the best | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck, Ravikumar_hp: OK, please coordinate with each other on keystone tests... | 17:19 |
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| Ravikumar_hp | sure . vara is ...? | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: ^^ | 17:19 |
| dwalleck | Vara is another automation lead with Rack. He was going to be here but I don't see him... | 17:19 |
| donaldngo_hp | i have a quesiton about: https://bugs.launchpad.net/tempest/+bug/943092 | 17:20 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 943092 in tempest "test_servers_negative.py: Name error, release not defined" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 17:20 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: that will be going away... | 17:20 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: the release variable... | 17:20 |
| donaldngo_hp | this was found by Sarad on my team and fixed | 17:20 |
| donaldngo_hp | question is how did it ever pass the Jenkins build | 17:20 |
| donaldngo_hp | should have failed? | 17:20 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: because the jenkins built doesn't run temnpest :( | 17:20 |
| donaldngo_hp | whoa | 17:21 |
| donaldngo_hp | what does it do? | 17:21 |
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| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: yeah... this is why we've been trying to get to a place where jenkins can consistently run tempest against the deployment cluster that currently runs devstacjk's exercises against it | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: but tempest has not been stable enough up to date | 17:21 |
| donaldngo_hp | https://jenkins.openstack.org/view/Tempest/ | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: and since there aren't any unit tests in tempest... there's not much to run in jenkins other than a pep8 checker and a merge conflicty check :( | 17:22 |
| donaldngo_hp | i see | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: believe me, I'm ashamed about it... | 17:22 |
| donaldngo_hp | was scratching my head wondering why its been green | 17:22 |
| donaldngo_hp | makes sense now | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: and the breakout of stable/diablo was a step towards being able to run Tempest in a stable manner | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: that has always been our end-goal... to replace devstack's exercises with tempest. | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: and we're much closer today than we were a month ago atr least :) | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | but, still lots to do! | 17:23 |
| donaldngo_hp | awesome | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | OK, shall we go over the merge proposals individually? | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | #topic merge proposal status | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "merge proposal status" | 17:24 | |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#q,status:open+project:openstack/tempest,n,z | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | Let's go bottom to top...\ | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | the stress tests are going to be reviewed today by me. dwalleck and others, would be great to get a review from you! | 17:25 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: I'd like to. I just need to look clearly to try to understand how to run them | 17:25 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: it would be great to get those three Volume patches in. Could you focus on reviewing those? And ping Sapan about the comments on his review? | 17:26 |
| Ravikumar_hp | we have volume & volume attachement - should we combine and make it as one? | 17:26 |
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| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: no... just saying to focus on those reviews.. | 17:27 |
| Ravikumar_hp | I will review and run it today | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: they are different bugs AFAICT | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: rock on, thx | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: I should have the authorization tests merge prop reviewed within an hour. | 17:27 |
| dwalleck | awesome, thanks | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp, donaldngo_hp: care to review the security groups merge proposals from rajalakshmi and sapan? | 17:28 |
| donaldngo_hp | sure | 17:28 |
| jaypipes | all: the top merge proposal is from Eoghan Glynn. It adds retries to the rest client to deal with ratelimit middleware, if it is enabled in the environment | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | I've already reviewd it. looks simple enough and potentially very useful (though personally, I destroy ratelimit middlware ASAP on my envs ;) | 17:29 |
| dwalleck | I just saw that. His patch should work, but the one he'll hit first is posts, which is x per hour... | 17:30 |
| dwalleck | Not sure if people want their tests to pause for an hour. And the 50 per day would be even worse | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | :) indeed... | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | anyway, please add your comments on that review. | 17:30 |
| dwalleck | But it does seem to work. Worth a try | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | which leads to the last one ... https://review.openstack.org/#change,4739 | 17:31 |
| jaypipes | whcih is dwalleck's improvements tot he config in tempest | 17:31 |
| jaypipes | it is a large change and will likely cause a lot of merge conflicts for any branch unlucky enough to try merging after it :) | 17:31 |
| dwalleck | Yes...this is my start to getting the configurations organized in a more logical manner | 17:31 |
| jaypipes | so... dwalleck, if you don't mind, I'll put the merge hell in your court and attempt to clear that patch last? | 17:32 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Fair enough | 17:32 |
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| jaypipes | dwalleck: but by the end of the week. that means if folks don't get their reviews and review comments fixed, they'll be dealing wth those conflicts themselves :) | 17:32 |
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| jaypipes | OK, let's switch topics to Swift, eh? :) | 17:33 |
| dwalleck | also fair :) I realize its a huge change, but I saw very clearly this week the pains people are having | 17:33 |
| jaypipes | #topic JoseSwiftQA and dwalleck to give status report on swift tests | 17:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "JoseSwiftQA and dwalleck to give status report on swift tests" | 17:33 | |
| dwalleck | JoseSwiftQA: We're close, right? Both for swift and CBS? | 17:34 |
| JoseSwiftQA | correct. | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: let's focus on swift right now :) | 17:34 |
| dwalleck | Fair enough | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQA: you guys have been adding to tempest, right? | 17:34 |
| JoseSwiftQA | Service is figured out, just have to work out a few kinks and clean it up. Haven't commited anything yet. | 17:35 |
| jaypipes | k... looking forward to it! | 17:35 |
| JoseSwiftQA | :) | 17:35 |
| dwalleck | They weren't doing it in Tempest at first, but they're merging it all in | 17:35 |
| dwalleck | I've seen it, it'l be a huge help | 17:35 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp, donaldngo_hp: what about Swift at HP? any tests been worked on that could be aligned with tempest? | 17:36 |
| Ravikumar_hp | we have tests , but we need to refactor little bit | 17:36 |
| Ravikumar_hp | to suit temptest | 17:36 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: actually, better question might be who is the lead QA person at HP for Swift stuff? | 17:36 |
| jaypipes | I can reach out to them to coordinate/collaborate with Jose and Daryl's teams | 17:37 |
| Ravikumar_hp | John Lenihan in Ireland | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | gotcha. OK, I'll reach out... let him know what's happening in the communtiy | 17:37 |
| Ravikumar_hp | ok | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck, JoseSwiftQA: any ETA on swift stuff? | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | they are hedging their bets :) | 17:38 |
| jaypipes | ok, I won't push. | 17:38 |
| dwalleck | JoseSwiftQA: how do you feel? I don't want you to rush | 17:38 |
| dwalleck | I'm all about stability this week :) | 17:39 |
| JoseSwiftQA | it's almost ready | 17:39 |
| dwalleck | We don't have to have everything done, just base service and a few tests even | 17:39 |
| JoseSwiftQA | Just need to find time to finish baking it | 17:39 |
| JoseSwiftQA | :D | 17:39 |
| jaypipes | no problem guys | 17:39 |
| dwalleck | Once we get that in, everything else can follow, plus others can join in | 17:39 |
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| jaypipes | in the meantime, I'll get with jeblair and mtaylor about the needs for tempest in the CI infrastructure | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | #topic Open Discussion | 17:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion" | 17:40 | |
| jaypipes | Anybody got stuff to bring up? Any concerns? Questions? Comments about the design summit coming up? | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | Does everyone have a registration code for the design summit that needs one? | 17:41 |
| dwalleck | I think most of my team will be at the summit, which should be fun :) | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | If not, please email me. | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: awesome! | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp and Ravikumar_hp are pretty close, so I hope they make it there :) | 17:41 |
| Ravikumar_hp | we have registered . (Ravi, Nayna , Donald) | 17:42 |
| jaypipes | excellent | 17:42 |
| Ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: You will be in SF this week? | 17:42 |
| JoseSwiftQA | We've mostly all registered. | 17:42 |
| dwalleck | I also pinged Thierry about having at least one Tempest specific session, which sounds possible | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: yep, next Tuesday in SFO and then Wed through Friday in Santa Clara at PyCon | 17:43 |
| Ravikumar_hp | may be you should stop by in Cupertino | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: we will have >1 session I believe. at a bare minimum I think we should have a Tempest Install-n-Run fest! | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: I'd love to! :) | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | OK, folks, any other questions/concerns? I'll wrap things up if not... | 17:44 |
| dwalleck | I'm hoping for even more than one. I'd really like to roadmap out the future | 17:44 |
| dwalleck | nope, I'm good | 17:44 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 17:44 |
| jaypipes | OK all, have a great day. See you on the reviews :) | 17:45 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 17:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 1 17:45:14 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-01-17.00.html | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-01-17.00.txt | 17:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-01-17.00.log.html | 17:45 |
| mtaylor | jaypipes: tempest++ | 17:45 |
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| jaypipes | mtaylor: gonna grab some lunch. after that, chat about tempest needs and the HP CI and QA clusters? | 17:46 |
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| mtaylor | jaypipes: yes to tempest. still working on clusters - I think I'm having a communications breakdown with the guys | 17:50 |
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| jaypipes | mtaylor: ok, let's chat in about 45 ins | 17:53 |
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| jdg | Any folks here for the nova-volume meeting? | 17:59 |
| DuncanT | Yup | 18:01 |
| jdg | great, was hoping you'd be here | 18:01 |
| jdg | #startmeeting | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 1 18:01:21 2012 UTC. The chair is jdg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 18:01 |
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| jdg | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/NovaVolumeMeetings | 18:01 |
| DuncanT | Anybody else? | 18:02 |
| jdg | Not much was added to the agenda other than DuncanT's request to talk about boot from volume | 18:02 |
| YorikSar | o/ | 18:02 |
| jdg | This might be a short meeting... :) Maybe we should give folks another minute? | 18:03 |
| jdurgin | I'm here too | 18:03 |
| kishanov | ogelbukh wanted to join, but he might be unavailable right now | 18:03 |
| jdg | alright, if there's no objections let's get started | 18:03 |
| jdg | #topic boot from volume | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "boot from volume" | 18:03 | |
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| jdg | DuncanT... you had some things you wanted to talk about here? | 18:04 |
| DuncanT | Yes please | 18:04 |
| jdg | Go for it | 18:04 |
| DuncanT | Basically I want to get some sort of conscientious as to where people think boot-from-volume is aiming for | 18:05 |
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| jdg | Anything specific? | 18:05 |
| DuncanT | I'm not 100% sure what works at the moment, but I'd like some idea of what people think should work... | 18:05 |
| DuncanT | Boot from iso | 18:06 |
| DuncanT | Boot from a volume that I've arranged to have a boot loader on it already | 18:06 |
| jdg | Rather than using the intermediate instance etc? | 18:06 |
| DuncanT | Yes | 18:06 |
| jdg | Personally I agree that this is soemthing that we "need", how to go about it is another story | 18:07 |
| jdg | DuncanT: Do you have any thoughts on how to implement? | 18:08 |
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| DuncanT | I don't /think/ it is possible to run an instance at the moment that doesn't have a glace reference? | 18:08 |
| DuncanT | I'm only just getting familiar with how nova starts instances at the moment | 18:08 |
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| DuncanT | Sorry, I'm not as well prepared here as I'd hoped to be | 18:10 |
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| jdg | No worries... Does anybody have any thoughts on this? Or do we not have the right people today? | 18:10 |
| jdurgin | last I checked that was the case, and I agree the imageref shouldn't be necessary | 18:10 |
| jdurgin | did you guys see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/auto-create-boot-volumes? | 18:10 |
| DuncanT | jdurgin: Somebody here pointed me at that a few minutes ago | 18:11 |
| DuncanT | We'd like to be able to create the volumes from (volume) snapshots too | 18:12 |
| YorikSar | Yes, it seemed to be a good idea even back in early Diablo days | 18:12 |
| jdurgin | it's started to be implemented now though: https://review.openstack.org/#change,4576 | 18:12 |
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| DuncanT | So it looks like this makes it a system-wide change to always use persistent volumes? | 18:14 |
| YorikSar | I ran through this change, looks pretty good | 18:15 |
| YorikSar | But shouldn't there be some cleanup after instance shutdown? | 18:15 |
| DuncanT | I don't see how you start an instance using the same volumes again | 18:16 |
| DuncanT | i.e. terminate the instance, keep the volumes then boot a new instance using those volumes | 18:16 |
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| DuncanT | The same as you might shutdown a server and have it come back exactly as it was | 18:16 |
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| DuncanT | I'm not entirely sure the usecase of the AutoCreateVolumes feature without this facility | 18:17 |
| DuncanT | Maybe I'm missing something? | 18:17 |
| jdurgin | DuncanT: maybe the way to accomplish that is to make creating the image from a volume a parameter of the api request, instead of a global flag | 18:18 |
| YorikSar | We can minimize usage of local disks on compute node, it can be necessary sometimes | 18:19 |
| DuncanT | jdurgin: I think so, yes. I think you can get the behaviour that this new feature gives you using block_device_mapper flags on every instance creation | 18:19 |
| YorikSar | For example, to minimize VM downtime on compute host failure | 18:19 |
| DuncanT | YorikSar: Ok, I can see that | 18:20 |
| YorikSar | But if we are going to use/reuse such volumes, it looks like we should not put this logic into compute | 18:20 |
| DuncanT | YorikSar: I agree | 18:20 |
| YorikSar | Maybe, we should let nova-volume summon new volume from image and then start an instance on it? | 18:21 |
| DuncanT | Can we find a way to reuse the code in nova-compute that currently creates the ephemeral (local) volumes here, since we know it is good? | 18:22 |
| jdurgin | YorikSar: I don't think nova-volume should start the instance itself, but adding a VolumeDriver method to create a volume from an image sounds good to me | 18:22 |
| YorikSar | jdurgin: Of course, instance creation should be a separate API call handled by compute | 18:23 |
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| jdg | So the create API call could take an argument to specify the instance should reside on a volume... create the volume, and launch the instance | 18:25 |
| YorikSar | DuncanT: I don't see how can it help here | 18:25 |
| DuncanT | I've no strong feelings on where it should live, but using different code to populate local .v. persistent volumes from glace seems odd | 18:25 |
| DuncanT | The task is essentially the safe, isn't it? | 18:25 |
| jdurgin | not quite the same - local disks are just files downloaded to the host from glance | 18:26 |
| ogelbukh | afaik, local volumes are not actually volumes | 18:26 |
| ogelbukh | jakedahn: +1 | 18:26 |
| ogelbukh | jdurgin: +1 | 18:26 |
| jdurgin | currently nova-volume has no way to actually write to the volumes | 18:26 |
| renuka | DuncanT: quick update...I am sorry I joined in late, so I may not have all the context. The way I have created test bfv volumes so far is by attaching a new volume to an existing instance and dd-ing over the contents of /boot | 18:27 |
| YorikSar | renuka: Exactly this logic should be separated into "create_volume_from_image" API call | 18:27 |
| renuka | DuncanT: by new volume, I mean one that nova-volume knows about | 18:28 |
| DuncanT | Ok, I thought it could inject files to them and stuff, but I haven't looked at the code in detail. Doesn't it do some magic to expand the filesystem to fill whatever size volume your flavour provides? | 18:28 |
| DuncanT | Ok, if we need an API call to do it, I'm fine with that | 18:29 |
| YorikSar | I think, we can delegate this call to some place where both Glance and nova-volume are accessible, along with this resizefs funcitonality | 18:29 |
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| renuka | DuncanT: not sure about the details of that.. but do we care about filesystem size when we are explicitly saying to boot from *this* volume | 18:29 |
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| clayg | sry, late - what'd I miss :) | 18:30 |
| DuncanT | renuka: Only if/when initially populating *this* volume with an image from glace | 18:30 |
| DuncanT | s/glace/glance/ | 18:30 |
| DuncanT | renuka: If the volume gets populated any other way, I agree we don't care | 18:30 |
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| YorikSar | Maybe we should move it to nova.virt.disk and run on nova-api node? | 18:30 |
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| renuka | DuncanT: my impression was, when people use boot from volume, they will have the exact volume they want to boot from. So you are talking about when we create *this* volume, correct? | 18:31 |
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| DuncanT | YorikSar: Would that mean nova-api nodes then need to be able to connect to / mount volumes? | 18:31 |
| clayg | nm, found the log http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-01-18.01.log.txt | 18:31 |
| renuka | why should this be in the nova-volume api? versus like a utility command | 18:32 |
| YorikSar | DuncanT: yeah, this is odd. It definitely should be done on nova-volume node. | 18:32 |
| DuncanT | renuka: I think there are two stages. You're quite right, the second stage is to say 'boot from this already created volume'. There's also the case in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/auto-create-boot-volumes of initially creating that volume from a glance image | 18:32 |
| renuka | DuncanT: why should this be in the nova-volume api? versus like a utility command | 18:33 |
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| DuncanT | renuka: How would it be driven by a user, if it isn't in an api somewhere? | 18:34 |
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| YorikSar | renuka: In case of iSCSI driver, we can cache frequently used image on nova-volume node and propagate it locally, with a performance gain | 18:35 |
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| renuka | DuncanT: I guess what I am more uncomfortable about is having nova-volume be aware of glance all of a sudden | 18:36 |
| YorikSar | renuka: It can be used too frequent to be an utility. | 18:36 |
| DuncanT | renuka: An example use-case might be: Create me a server using new persistent volumes for all storage, using the ubuntu glace image.... later, terminate that instance... later still boot a new instance using the volumes I created earlier, exactly as if I have powered off a physical server then powered it back on again | 18:36 |
| DuncanT | renuka: If we can get nova-compute to use nova-volume volumes in place of local disk images then nova-compute existing code can do the rest | 18:37 |
| renuka | DuncanT: We need to be careful that all this while, compute has been the glance-aware component | 18:37 |
| YorikSar | renuka: It will connect to Glance anyway to backup volumes | 18:37 |
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| jdg | DuncanT: I guess I don't see why you couldn't use the existing glance and compute relations to do that? | 18:37 |
| DuncanT | YorikSar: We do backups (or what the euca commands call snapshots) without glance usign copy-on-write | 18:37 |
| jdg | eg: keep volume unaware, and just "use" it | 18:37 |
| renuka | YorikSar: at this point, nova-volume does not connect to glance AFAIK... back ups and snapshots are taken on the existing backend | 18:38 |
| YorikSar | DuncanT: I'm talking about backup to cold storage, e.g. Glance. | 18:38 |
| jdurgin | there are also possible optimizations if glance and nova-volume are using the same backend storage - new instances could be created that are copy-on-write | 18:38 |
| DuncanT | jgd: If the API is gotten correct, I think you can keep volume unaware, yes | 18:38 |
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| renuka | jdurgin: that cannot be a requirement | 18:39 |
| DuncanT | jdurgin: COW instances for fast instance creation is definitely on our road-map | 18:39 |
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| jdurgin | renuka: not a requirement, certainly, but an optimization | 18:39 |
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| jdg | It seems like adding the functionality to compute api when creating an instance to "use" a volume gets what everybody wants without causing a bunch of tangles in volume code | 18:39 |
| DuncanT | jdg: Agreed | 18:40 |
| renuka | +1 | 18:40 |
| dricco | +1 | 18:40 |
| jdurgin | +1 | 18:40 |
| YorikSar | jdg: I think, this method (create volume from image) should be useful for nova-volume as separate service. | 18:40 |
| jdg | YorikSar: Maybe, but I like the idea of keeping volumes limited to just being "volumes" | 18:41 |
| jdg | They should not know or care how they are being used should they? | 18:41 |
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| renuka | Having said that I am not entirely thrilled with the idea of compute suddenly having control of a command that does "feel" like a compute command | 18:41 |
| YorikSar | Of course, no. But what can stop them from using Glance to store and ressurect long-term backups? | 18:41 |
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| creiht | backups should be a function of the backend storage system | 18:42 |
| creiht | weather that is to glance, directly to swift, or local snaps it shouldn't matter | 18:42 |
| renuka | YorikSar: the individual volume drivers should not have to be modified for this functionality.. we need volume only to *create* the new volume... | 18:42 |
| creiht | as long as we make sure we have a consistent interface for the users to interact with that | 18:43 |
| DuncanT | creiht: we need an API that can support many semantics though | 18:43 |
| YorikSar | Mmm.. I think, I should formulate this as some bluebrint. | 18:43 |
| creiht | There should be a base amount of functionality for backups | 18:43 |
| creiht | create backup, create volume based on backup, etc. | 18:43 |
| creiht | any extra can be added with extensions | 18:43 |
| DuncanT | creiht: The problem there is that we consider 'snapshots' and 'backups' to be two separate things, both of which users might want to do | 18:45 |
| creiht | because that extra functionality is going to be different for every implementation | 18:45 |
| DuncanT | creiht: Which do you map to the standard 'backup'? | 18:45 |
| YorikSar | renuka: Still volume node can be the closest node to the new volume, so we lose performance on network IO | 18:46 |
| jdurgin | renuka: how would you know how to write to a volume without an additional volume driver method? | 18:46 |
| YorikSar | jdurgin: We can mount volume to nova-volume node and write to it | 18:46 |
| clayg | So there's a lot of code referencing block_device_mapping, which as I understand the EC2 feature allows you to accomplish boot-from-volume (i.e. the root fs of this instance is an ebs volume) - has any used the block_device_mapping feature currently impliemented? | 18:46 |
| renuka | well but that would mean the volume needs to be mounted somewhere right | 18:46 |
| jdurgin | YorikSar: not all volumes are mountable on the host | 18:47 |
| creiht | DuncanT: that's part of the problem is the terminology makes it difficult to define all of this | 18:47 |
| creiht | I tried at one point to clean it up with using the term backups, but I may just further confused the situation | 18:47 |
| creiht | All I'm saying is that there should be a simple base functionality (what is currently implemented in the api as snapshots) | 18:48 |
| DuncanT | creiht: I wrote a blueprint that attempted to define some terminology. One problem is that ec2 API already owns some of the terms | 18:48 |
| jdg | jdurgin: can you clarify volumes that aren't mountable? | 18:48 |
| creiht | weather we call it backups or snapshots at this point, I've come to not care | 18:48 |
| creiht | but anything on top of that should be an extension | 18:48 |
| jdurgin | jdg: sheepdog and rbd are written to directly by qemu | 18:48 |
| DuncanT | clayg: Regarding block_device_mapping, I can't see how to create a new instance that doesn't reference a glace image using it | 18:49 |
| clayg | creiht: DuncanT: the terms can be overloaded, but it seems ok if they means different things to diffent volume types/storage backends as long as the user can keep it stright. | 18:49 |
| YorikSar | There are volumes, we can create fast snapshots that use less space and can easily be a source for a new volume. And there are backups that take a lot of time to create, are stored in a very reliable place (like Swift) and take a lot of resources to be restored. | 18:49 |
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| jdg | jdurgin: So what about saying sheepdog and rdb don't suppor this bfv method? | 18:49 |
| jdg | Or "this method of bfv is not supported" | 18:50 |
| YorikSar | I though, this terminology is common | 18:50 |
| DuncanT | clayg: block_device_mapping otherwise gives a lot of the needed functionality, I think, though it is ugly | 18:50 |
| creiht | YorikSar: you can support that, but not every storage system is going to support that | 18:50 |
| creiht | that's why I am arguing for a simple base concept | 18:50 |
| jdurgin | jdg: they can support it, just not with dding to a block device on the host. they can both be written to with qemu-img | 18:50 |
| creiht | it is reasonable to expect every storage system to implement some backup/snapshot system | 18:50 |
| jdg | jdurgin: ahh, ok | 18:51 |
| renuka | creiht: why does this API have to be backend dependent | 18:51 |
| YorikSar | creiht: the worst way is to attach volume to nova-volume host (just as it can be attached to nova-compute) and dd an image to/from it | 18:51 |
| renuka | creiht: we should not have to rely on additional backend functionality, when all we need is the ability to create/attach volume | 18:51 |
| creiht | renuka: all I'm arguing for is a simple base functionality that all systems can implement | 18:52 |
| creiht | then where systems want to vary/ add their own value they can in extensions | 18:52 |
| creiht | just like the rest of nova | 18:52 |
| creiht | renuka: and I agree totally with that | 18:52 |
| renuka | YorikSar: that sounds so wrong. the volume host is a control plane, we should not have random volumes whose contents we have no idea about being attached to a privileged host/vm | 18:53 |
| DuncanT | renuka: volume host function separation ++ | 18:53 |
| renuka | ok here's a suggestion.. off the top of my head... can we expect to boot the image we want, attach a new volume to it, and dd (like how i said i was creating volumes)... | 18:53 |
| renuka | boot the image if required of course, not if it is running already | 18:54 |
| YorikSar | renuka: ok, then we should have a separate utility host that should do it. | 18:54 |
| renuka | YorkSar: why? | 18:54 |
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| renuka | YorikSar: i know this is quite hacky... but it shouldn't matter where we booted this image | 18:55 |
| YorikSar | renuka: to keep Compute unaware of all backuping. And to not lose performance on virtualization and networking (if volumes are local) | 18:55 |
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| jdurgin | renuka: that's essentially what libguestfs does (and there's a plugin for it in nova.virt.disks for file injection) | 18:56 |
| creiht | YorikSar: so are you saying that the backup functionality should be common accross all storage systems? | 18:57 |
| YorikSar | jdurgin: file injection can be done by compute host later | 18:57 |
| YorikSar | creiht: Yes. And if backend can not do something faster (like stream image directly to storage), we should do in for it, e.g. on utility host | 18:58 |
| creiht | YorikSar: I would argue that is not possible (at least in the near term) | 18:59 |
| jdurgin | YorikSar: yeah, file injection is a separate issue | 18:59 |
| creiht | every storage system is going to do backups differently | 18:59 |
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| creiht | for example, I imagine netapp will store backups internally as snaps | 19:00 |
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| YorikSar | creiht: But it should be kept in nova-volume, not spread around both volume and compute | 19:00 |
| creiht | lunr is going to backup directly to swift | 19:00 |
| YorikSar | snapshots should not be considered as long-term storage | 19:01 |
| jdg | So what's so wrong with a default backup in the Volume driver that does something along those lines, and then folks override it in their drivers where possible. In both cases it's the same volume-api call? | 19:01 |
| creiht | YorikSar: again that depends on the backend storage system | 19:01 |
| creiht | for your storage system that may be the case | 19:01 |
| creiht | for another it may not | 19:02 |
| YorikSar | creiht: Well, it should be up to driver | 19:02 |
| creiht | and that is exactly what I am arguing for | 19:02 |
| YorikSar | creiht: It can alias backup to snapshot | 19:02 |
| creiht | we shouldn't make those decisions for them :) | 19:02 |
| jdg | YorikSar: +1 | 19:02 |
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| creiht | and I have to run to another meeting | 19:03 |
| YorikSar | creiht: But we should pass create_backup request to driver anyway, so that there should be API call that triggers it | 19:03 |
| jdg | Ok, we're out of time. Sounds like we can pick up on this again next week for sure. | 19:03 |
| DuncanT | It sounds like we have some conscientious on how boot-from-volume could work, even if backup/snapshot is a bit up-it-the air? | 19:04 |
| jdg | DuncanT: Yes, I think folks agree on the top level. Backup/Snapshot details still needs some discussion. | 19:04 |
| DuncanT | Maybe I'll try to summerise my understanding of the boot from volume, with notes on the code that seems to be missing, for next week? | 19:04 |
| renuka | DuncanT: can you summarize? | 19:04 |
| YorikSar | DuncanT: If we support future with backups in nova-volume, this logic should be moved to nova-volume. | 19:05 |
| jdg | Another question I have is how this impacts the existing blueprint and work that's been done by samsung | 19:05 |
| clayg | jdg: any progress on uuids? | 19:05 |
| jdg | clayg: :) | 19:05 |
| DuncanT | jdg: Is http://wiki.openstack.org/AutoCreateBootVolumes the samsung one? | 19:05 |
| jdg | Working on it. My first approach trashed ec2 calls. | 19:05 |
| DuncanT | Sorry, I don't know who's who | 19:05 |
| renuka | DuncanT: could you put down what we have agreed on...i am still confused about this | 19:05 |
| jdg | DuncanT: Yes | 19:05 |
| YorikSar | And I've been beaten for unifying volume API and extension. | 19:06 |
| DuncanT | jdg: Ok, I'll make sure any interaction with that is documented | 19:06 |
| jdg | clayg: I'm going to take another look today and mabye send out an email to volume list about what I'm trying to do. | 19:06 |
| jdg | My thought now is to just modify existing DB/API methods to check if they're recieving a UUID versus int-id and behave accordingly. | 19:07 |
| ogelbukh | vishy mentioned some plan for separation nova-volume into project of it's own | 19:07 |
| jdg | But this creates some confusion higher up | 19:07 |
| jdg | ogelbukh: Yes | 19:07 |
| ogelbukh | did anyone see updates on that? | 19:07 |
| DuncanT | renuka: I'll email our the summary ASAP then you can comment on that... to be honest it feels like what you were doing is basically what I'm thinking of, other than using something slightly smarter than DD | 19:07 |
| ogelbukh | or he's going to do it at summit | 19:08 |
| jdg | ogelbukh: I think that's going to be relegated more towards the summit | 19:08 |
| YorikSar | We need to use hash-action to fixate what should be donne by next week | 19:08 |
| ogelbukh | jdg: oh, fine | 19:08 |
| renuka | DuncanT: i think this could be a different service altogether, or the closest would be to have it become part of nova-compute | 19:08 |
| jdg | #action DuncanT to send out summary of where we're at on BFV | 19:08 |
| DuncanT | renuka: It is going to involve nova-compute work, definitely | 19:09 |
| jdg | Anything else real quick? | 19:09 |
| jdg | Ok, thanks everyone. | 19:10 |
| jdg | #endmeeting | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 19:10 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 1 19:10:06 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:10 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-01-18.01.html | 19:10 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-01-18.01.txt | 19:10 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-01-18.01.log.html | 19:10 |
| DuncanT | Thanks all | 19:10 |
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| vishy | DuncanT: i missed this, but is there something with boot from volume that doesn't work? | 19:25 |
| vishy | DuncanT: you can currently boot from a volume directly. There is some funky interaction to get an image onto the volume but it works more or less. | 19:27 |
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| * mikeyp lurking during the hack-in | 19:56 | |
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| n0ano | anyone here for the orchestration meeting? | 20:03 |
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| anotherjesse1 | westmaas: bcwaldon just pushed an update to https://review.openstack.org/#change,4675 - he says "still need to add more logging" | 20:41 |
| anotherjesse1 | westmaas: getting pub cloud feedback would be <3 | 20:41 |
| bcwaldon | why are you talking about this in openstack-meeting | 20:41 |
| westmaas | bcwaldon: why not | 20:41 |
| bcwaldon | westmaas: quiet down | 20:41 |
| anotherjesse1 | haha - because I mis-typed | 20:41 |
| bcwaldon | did you want some privacy? | 20:41 |
| anotherjesse1 | moving to #dev | 20:42 |
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