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| renuka | hello.. shall we start the openstack volumes meeting | 18:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jdg_ | sure... unless it's just you and I today. | 18:01 |
| vladimir3p | hey | 18:01 |
| renuka | cool, we have three | 18:02 |
| vladimir3p | :-) | 18:02 |
| renuka | #startmeeting | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 1 18:02:36 2011 UTC. The chair is renuka. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 18:02 |
| renuka | #topic openstack volumes | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack volumes" | 18:02 | |
| renuka | I mainly had to raise one point,about the usage of the host flag | 18:03 |
| renuka | so before that, do either of you have any updates or would like to discuss anything today? | 18:03 |
| jdg_ | Nothing really from me. I've been trying to set up a cloud in house the past week or so and that's about it. | 18:04 |
| vladimir3p | nope, I have no updates. stuck with integrating our stuff with keystone | 18:04 |
| renuka | vladimir3p: so this week or so, you mentioned you can start on the scheduler, is that still on track? | 18:05 |
| vladimir3p | hope to start it 1st week of Dec (next week) | 18:05 |
| vladimir3p | but only if I'll succeed to bring up our keystone :-) | 18:06 |
| renuka | right, keep us in the loop :) | 18:06 |
| renuka | #topic host flag | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "host flag" | 18:07 | |
| renuka | so I just wanted to ensure that everyone is aware of this... | 18:07 |
| renuka | so far we have been using the host flag in the code as if it is necessarily an IP address | 18:07 |
| renuka | recently with some upgrade work, it was proposed that it should be a GUID for a machine | 18:08 |
| renuka | that began to break some iscsi tests | 18:08 |
| renuka | i believe we have a fix here: https://review.openstack.org/#change,1982 | 18:08 |
| renuka | #link https://review.openstack.org/#change,1982 | 18:08 |
| vladimir3p | let me take a look, I'm not sure if we ever experienced such issue... | 18:09 |
| renuka | so please keep in mind that the host flag, and therefore volume['host'] and iscsi_target['host'] may not be IP addresses and could well be some form of IDs | 18:09 |
| renuka | you may not have experienced it yet, because John from citrix is doing the upgrades changes... so they may not be upstream | 18:10 |
| vladimir3p | hmm... volume['host'] is always a hostname, isn't it? | 18:10 |
| renuka | well it has been, so far | 18:10 |
| jdg_ | So forgive me for the ignorant question, but where is the coorelation made back to an IP? Assuming some link back to the database? | 18:10 |
| renuka | I am just pointing out that in the future it need not be | 18:10 |
| renuka | in that patch on gerrit, we are populating "provider location" with the details of where to find the iscsi target | 18:11 |
| jdg_ | Yes, sorry... I just read it in the change link you sent. | 18:11 |
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| renuka | right, so the definition of "host" has been clarified now | 18:12 |
| vladimir3p | ok, I see... | 18:12 |
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| renuka | since I would most certainly have read the code assuming volume['host'] is an IP address, I wanted to make it a bit more explicit that it need not be | 18:13 |
| vladimir3p | this is irrelevant for us, because we never really used it. The IP is filled up from host-specific SW we install on every host and from there we create provider_location | 18:13 |
| vladimir3p | renuka, I still suppose that volume['host'] is just a hostname ... | 18:13 |
| renuka | last conversation I had about this change, it was decided that volume['host'] should continue to be whatever is in the host flag | 18:14 |
| vladimir3p | ok | 18:14 |
| renuka | in fact it has always been that... i dont think this change changes it | 18:14 |
| renuka | let me check | 18:14 |
| renuka | right, it doesn't | 18:15 |
| renuka | so whenever someone starts the services with the host flag set to something else that is not an IP address, we run the risk of misusing volume['host'] if we are not careful | 18:16 |
| vladimir3p | unless this is set to default value, which is hostname | 18:17 |
| vladimir3p | and supposed to be unique | 18:17 |
| renuka | it will be unique in either case...we just don't have a guarantee that it can be used as an IP address | 18:18 |
| renuka | for example, with the recent changes, the iscsiadm commands were failing, because the code does a "-p volume['host']" | 18:18 |
| renuka | that assumes it is an IP address | 18:19 |
| renuka | so any such lines of code, we need to watch out for | 18:19 |
| vladimir3p | renuka, just to understand ... if you override FLAGS.host with an IP address it means that on all levels (schedulers, API, etc) you are using IP and not a hostname | 18:20 |
| vladimir3p | which is fine, but it is on all levels | 18:20 |
| renuka | yes | 18:20 |
| vladimir3p | FLAGS.host is kind of "global" param for Manager | 18:20 |
| renuka | yes | 18:20 |
| vladimir3p | it means that all compute services and others are using it | 18:20 |
| vladimir3p | ok | 18:20 |
| renuka | this caveat does apply to any other coding that you are doing also | 18:21 |
| vladimir3p | hmm... not really | 18:21 |
| vladimir3p | we don't care what exactly is set in host field | 18:22 |
| jdg_ | cd vsa | 18:22 |
| vladimir3p | it just should be unique | 18:22 |
| jdg_ | ls | 18:22 |
| jdg_ | sorry | 18:22 |
| vladimir3p | :-) | 18:22 |
| renuka | #info FLAGS.host and therefore volume['host'] need not always be an IP address | 18:22 |
| vladimir3p | yeah :-) | 18:22 |
| jdg_ | :) | 18:22 |
| vladimir3p | ok, do we have anything else for today? | 18:23 |
| renuka | right, i didn't really have anything more for the meeting | 18:23 |
| vladimir3p | unless you could tell me where I could find normal & stable keystone for Natty | 18:24 |
| jdg_ | Nothing here really, just trying to actually stand up instances and connect to iscsi storage. | 18:24 |
| vladimir3p | (preferably in form of packages) | 18:24 |
| jdg_ | I'll be finishing my blue-print and submitting properly next week. | 18:24 |
| jdg_ | I've been using Kiall's script (which uses packages) | 18:24 |
| renuka | vladimir3p: I haven't installed from packages before... have you looked at devstack? not sure if they use keystone | 18:25 |
| renuka | aah ok | 18:25 |
| jdg_ | Trouble is I'm trying to do physical machines (multi-node) | 18:25 |
| jdg_ | Kialls script gives keystone, glance, dashboard etc. | 18:25 |
| jdg_ | Now I'm hosed though because none of the euca2ools stuff is configured.... anyway, that's going to be the rest of my week. | 18:26 |
| renuka | #keystone packages | 18:26 |
| renuka | this, for oniric http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/keystone does not help? | 18:26 |
| vladimir3p | yes, I've seen this one for oneiric, but we are using Natty | 18:27 |
| vladimir3p | not sure if it will work | 18:27 |
| vladimir3p | also, I was trying to use the latest stable/diablo branch from devstack, but it is behaving weird... the one from 1-2 weeks ago worked perfectly | 18:27 |
| renuka | maybe we should keep this out of the meeting and on the #openstack chat room where more people can help | 18:27 |
| vladimir3p | yeah, let's finish the volume one | 18:28 |
| renuka | #endmeeting | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 18:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 1 18:28:11 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-01-18.02.html | 18:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-01-18.02.txt | 18:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-01-18.02.log.html | 18:28 |
| vladimir3p | ok, folks, need to go | 18:28 |
| vladimir3p | tty next week. | 18:28 |
| renuka | yup, bbye | 18:28 |
| jdg_ | Thanks guys, sorry for my confusion there regardign pkg's installs. | 18:28 |
| jdg_ | I'll catch on here eventually :) | 18:29 |
| renuka | feel free to use the mailing list ;) | 18:29 |
| jdg_ | Good tip | 18:30 |
| jdg_ | see ya | 18:30 |
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| sandywalsh | o/ anyone here for Orchestration? | 20:00 |
| n0ano | just us lurkers :-) | 20:00 |
| maoy | yes | 20:00 |
| sandywalsh | lurkers are good :) | 20:00 |
| sandywalsh | #start-meeting | 20:01 |
| mikeyp | mike's here | 20:01 |
| n0ano | do we have an agenda for today? | 20:01 |
| sandywalsh | #startmeeting | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 1 20:01:08 2011 UTC. The chair is sandywalsh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 20:01 |
| sandywalsh | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/Orchestration | 20:01 |
| sandywalsh | #info Orchestration | 20:01 |
| maoy | I'll put another name up there: Task Management | 20:01 |
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| sandywalsh | I just threw together that agenda since I've been out for the last couple of weeks | 20:02 |
| sandywalsh | maoy, k, let's tackle yours first ... can you explain a little about Task Management? | 20:02 |
| sandywalsh | #topic Task Management | 20:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Task Management" | 20:02 | |
| maoy | ah. | 20:02 |
| maoy | i was referring to the new naming effort | 20:03 |
| sandywalsh | ah, heh ... gotcha | 20:03 |
| sandywalsh | ok, let's tackle naming | 20:03 |
| sandywalsh | #topic naming | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "naming" | 20:03 | |
| maoy | i like transaction management, but it does sound like db lingo | 20:03 |
| sandywalsh | So, orchestration is causing trouble for people | 20:03 |
| maoy | so task might be more general alternative | 20:04 |
| n0ano | not for me, I'm beginning to like orchestration, do we really need to change? | 20:04 |
| sandywalsh | I think it's ultimately about distributed state machine management | 20:04 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, I agree, but people think of it in the larger BPM / Workflow sense | 20:04 |
| sandywalsh | and we're more tactical than that | 20:05 |
| n0ano | so we just need to make sure others know that it is tactical and not workflow | 20:05 |
| sandywalsh | Tactical Orchestration? | 20:05 |
| * beekhof doesnt have a problem with Orchestration | 20:05 | |
| mikeyp | to add some background, 'Orchestration' is being confused with BPM, and larger cloud management frameworks. | 20:05 |
| beekhof | sandywalsh: sounds like a nuclear option :) | 20:06 |
| sandywalsh | heh | 20:06 |
| n0ano | and scheduling is too specific | 20:06 |
| maoy | lo | 20:06 |
| sandywalsh | naming issues suck :) | 20:06 |
| maoy | if we don't have a consensus we might just stay where we are.. | 20:06 |
| sandywalsh | that's why I like State Management ... little room for interpretation | 20:06 |
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| maoy | according to wikipedia..Orchestration describes the automated arrangement, coordination, and management of complex computer systems, middleware, and services. | 20:07 |
| beekhof | wfm | 20:07 |
| sandywalsh | certainly sticking with orchestration is the easiest | 20:07 |
| sandywalsh | I'll add a blurb to the working group description to highlight the distinction | 20:07 |
| sandywalsh | vote to stick with orchestration? | 20:08 |
| * n0ano aye | 20:08 | |
| sandywalsh | +1 | 20:08 |
| beekhof | +1 | 20:08 |
| maoy | like | 20:08 |
| mikeyp | -1 - too many large implications | 20:08 |
| mikeyp | +1 for state management | 20:08 |
| sandywalsh | votes for state management? | 20:09 |
| sandywalsh | votes for other choices? | 20:09 |
| sandywalsh | #action stick with "orchestration" until we can come up with a better name :) | 20:09 |
| * n0ano abstain for other choices | 20:09 | |
| sandywalsh | #topic tactical scheduler changes | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tactical scheduler changes" | 20:10 | |
| sandywalsh | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/EssexSchedulerImprovements | 20:10 |
| sandywalsh | So, I emailed this out this morning | 20:10 |
| sandywalsh | I know it's not directly related to Orchestration per se, but hopefully we can see a pattern here for how we can process events and get them back to the Scheduler | 20:10 |
| maoy | i think it's closely related.. | 20:11 |
| sandywalsh | I think if we get this mechanism in place, we can start to add the State Machine stuff | 20:11 |
| sandywalsh | if you haven't read it, please do and offer feedback | 20:11 |
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| maoy | for distributed scheduler, you mean the zone stuff, right? | 20:11 |
| sandywalsh | well, initially we need it for single zone, but multi zone will follow behind shortly | 20:12 |
| mikeyp | The idea of capacity cache as a summary table makes sense. | 20:12 |
| mikeyp | who wold 'own' that table in terms of updates ? | 20:12 |
| n0ano | I like the idea of putting the data in the DB, I'm concerned that using pre-defined columns would limit the extensibility of the scheduler | 20:13 |
| sandywalsh | the scheduler would update for new rows | 20:13 |
| sandywalsh | and the compute nodes would update for changes to instance status | 20:13 |
| sandywalsh | (including delete) | 20:13 |
| maoy | the challenge I see for "orchestration" is to maintain that table up2date in the event of node crashes, and errors. | 20:13 |
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| beekhof | i only just got up, havent read it yet | 20:14 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, good point ... something we need to consider ... how to extend what's in the table | 20:14 |
| maoy | agree on extensibility. scheduler is probably the most likely customized module in deployment imho.. | 20:14 |
| n0ano | +1 on customizable module | 20:14 |
| mikeyp | the table should have an updated timestamp for each row. | 20:14 |
| sandywalsh | maoy, ideally the ComputeNode table will let us now about host failures | 20:15 |
| mikeyp | could then decide when info was stale | 20:15 |
| n0ano | timestamp is standard for all the current rows in the DB, that shouldn't change | 20:15 |
| sandywalsh | mikeyp, all Nova tables have those common fields | 20:15 |
| sandywalsh | mikeyp, nova.db.sqlalchemy.models.NovaBase | 20:16 |
| sandywalsh | #action give some consideration to extending CapacityCache table | 20:17 |
| sandywalsh | One other thing that came up from our meeting last week was the need to keep Essex stable | 20:17 |
| sandywalsh | no radical changes | 20:17 |
| sandywalsh | so we may need to do our orchestration stuff along side the current compute.run_instance() code | 20:18 |
| n0ano | I actually created a proof of concept scheduler based on cactus that put metrics in the DB and made decisions based on that, I can send an email to describe it in more deatil | 20:18 |
| maoy | if a compute node can't finish provision a vm, we need to find another node. is this included in the new scheduler? | 20:18 |
| sandywalsh | perhaps like we did with /zones/boot initially | 20:18 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, that would be great | 20:18 |
| sandywalsh | #action n0ano to outline his previous scheduler efforts on ML | 20:18 |
| sandywalsh | maoy, not yet, no retries yet ... first it's just getting reliable instance state info | 20:19 |
| n0ano | if the goal is essex stability that would imply minimal changes to the current code, right? | 20:19 |
| sandywalsh | as I was saying, we may need to do something like POST /orchestration/boot or something in the meanwhile to not upset nova while we get our state management in place | 20:19 |
| maoy | sandywalsh, can you elaborate on what you did with /zones/boot initially? | 20:19 |
| sandywalsh | likely a simple state machine (not petri net) in the short term | 20:20 |
| n0ano | so something like moving to a DB base would have to wait for the F release | 20:20 |
| sandywalsh | so, when we started with the scheduler we had a new POST /servers method that worked across zones | 20:20 |
| sandywalsh | but it had a different signature than POST /servers | 20:20 |
| sandywalsh | so we created POST /zones/boot to use the alternate approach | 20:21 |
| sandywalsh | and later, we integrated the two back into POST /servers | 20:21 |
| sandywalsh | and ditched /zone/boot | 20:21 |
| sandywalsh | we may need to do the same thing with state-machine based boot | 20:21 |
| sandywalsh | can't upset the Essex apple cart | 20:21 |
| maoy | about petrinet. from our previous email, it looks like most things are sequential so state machine is probably good enough.. | 20:22 |
| sandywalsh | maoy, agreed ... won't really be an issue until we get into multiple concurrent instance provisioning requests | 20:22 |
| beekhof | agreed. petrinet looked cool but quit epossibly overkill | 20:22 |
| sandywalsh | that's why this event handling stuff is important now | 20:22 |
| sandywalsh | #action stick with a simple state machine for now ... revisit petrinets later when concurrency is required | 20:23 |
| maoy | one more q: | 20:23 |
| maoy | is all the steps in a job executed on the same node (compute?) | 20:23 |
| maoy | i guess some might be on network nodes or storage nodes? | 20:24 |
| sandywalsh | maoy, yes for run_instance() ... resize or migrate may be different (need to verify) | 20:24 |
| sandywalsh | and yes, there are things that need to be done on the network/volume nodes | 20:24 |
| sandywalsh | but it's usually still all serial | 20:24 |
| sandywalsh | (sequential) | 20:24 |
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| maoy | got it | 20:24 |
| sandywalsh | beekhof, when you get a chance to read that wiki page, I'd be curious to know if the event notification stuff will work ok with pacemaker | 20:25 |
| maoy | in this case, the automatic rollback with predefined undo functions during failure seems to make sense | 20:25 |
| sandywalsh | hopefully it should fit well? | 20:26 |
| beekhof | i think it would | 20:26 |
| sandywalsh | cool | 20:26 |
| sandywalsh | maoy, do you mean hard-coded rewind functions? | 20:26 |
| beekhof | would simplify a lot if there was a single table to go to | 20:26 |
| sandywalsh | right | 20:26 |
| maoy | i mean for each step, the developer specify a undo step in case things happen later blow up | 20:27 |
| sandywalsh | yes, right ... I think so too | 20:27 |
| sandywalsh | k, so anything else anyone cares to bring up? | 20:27 |
| sandywalsh | I need to review some of the communications from the last two weeks | 20:28 |
| maoy | this would prevent bugs like forget to un-allocate IP if VM doesn't boot | 20:28 |
| sandywalsh | correct | 20:28 |
| mikeyp | the VM state managements are still in review | 20:28 |
| beekhof | there was my compute-cluster idea, dunno if its worth discussing that | 20:28 |
| mikeyp | how / does that impact this work ? | 20:28 |
| sandywalsh | mikeyp, I think they need to come to agreement on the VM states before we can really do much | 20:29 |
| mikeyp | thats what I thought | 20:29 |
| sandywalsh | beekhof, I need to re-read it, but perhaps others are ready? | 20:30 |
| beekhof | we can do next week | 20:30 |
| sandywalsh | #action discuss beekhok compute-cluster idea next meeting | 20:30 |
| beekhof | i've put it to one side since RH is going to take a diff approach anyway | 20:30 |
| beekhof | but i still think its kinda neat :) | 20:31 |
| sandywalsh | *beekhof | 20:31 |
| sandywalsh | :) can you elaborate on the RH approach? | 20:31 |
| beekhof | now or next week? | 20:32 |
| sandywalsh | perhaps in an email and we can touch on it next week? | 20:32 |
| sandywalsh | (or did your last email already mention it?) | 20:32 |
| beekhof | sure | 20:32 |
| maoy | agreed. email has higher goodput | 20:32 |
| beekhof | 10000-ft view... | 20:32 |
| sandywalsh | k | 20:32 |
| beekhof | its a layered design | 20:33 |
| beekhof | sits on top of openstack instead of being a part of it | 20:33 |
| sandywalsh | ah, that'll be good to hear about | 20:33 |
| sandywalsh | well, let's wrap this one up and we'll see you on the lists! | 20:33 |
| beekhof | that way it can also manage other stacks | 20:33 |
| beekhof | ok | 20:33 |
| sandywalsh | cool | 20:33 |
| sandywalsh | #endmeeting | 20:33 |
| mikeyp | ok | 20:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 20:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 1 20:33:58 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-01-20.01.html | 20:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-01-20.01.txt | 20:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-01-20.01.log.html | 20:34 |
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| yehudasa | vishy: did you see our changes to the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/ceph-s3-gateway blueprint, it was pretty much rewritten last week | 23:22 |
| yehudasa | ? | 23:22 |
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