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| dhellmann | o/ | 18:00 |
|---|---|---|
| gothicmindfood | o/ | 18:00 |
| amrith | #startmeeting swg | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 14 18:00:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is amrith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swg)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swg' | 18:00 |
| amrith | \./ | 18:00 |
| gothicmindfood | we're missing an 'a' for 'swag' | 18:00 |
| jroll | ohai | 18:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 18:00 |
| jroll | I pronounce it swag anyway, nbd :) | 18:00 |
| amrith | Let's wait a couple of minutes for others who may come in. I'm just sending a courtesy ping on #openstack-swg | 18:00 |
| amrith | hi dhellmann gothicmindfood jroll | 18:01 |
| gothicmindfood | hi everyone! | 18:01 |
| dims | o/ | 18:01 |
| amrith | Some folks said they won't be able to attend the meeting; ttx, carol barrett, jay pipes (?), | 18:01 |
| amrith | flaper87, ... | 18:01 |
| annegentle | o/ | 18:01 |
| annegentle | I think flaper87 said he couldn't | 18:02 |
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| annegentle | hey gothicmindfood ! | 18:02 |
| gothicmindfood | hi annegentle :) | 18:02 |
| amrith | that's correct annegentle | 18:02 |
| amrith | let's get started ... | 18:02 |
| amrith | Since some folks wanted to follow up on the meeting in scroll back/eavesdrop, I am going to | 18:02 |
| amrith | pass the baton to Colette and request her to give a quick introduction to the concept of | 18:02 |
| amrith | stewardship, servant leadership and the rationale for the SWG. We will get to our scheduled | 18:02 |
| amrith | agenda after that. | 18:02 |
| nikhil | o/ | 18:02 |
| gothicmindfood | oh yay and thanks amrith :) | 18:03 |
| * amrith passes the baton to gothicmindfood | 18:03 | |
| * mugsie lurks | 18:03 | |
| * dhellmann hunts for the link to the agenda | 18:03 | |
| * gothicmindfood takes the baton and copy/pastes | 18:03 | |
| gothicmindfood | For those who are interested in all of this excitement but *weren’t* at the Ann Arbor training, and who may have had limited time to participate in the discussion leading up to the creation of the group, I just wanted to bring you up to speed on what this group is/isn’t - | 18:03 |
| amrith | sorry | 18:03 |
| amrith | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SWGMeeting#Agenda | 18:03 |
| amrith | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SWGMeeting#Agenda | 18:03 |
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| gothicmindfood | we’re a working group who specializes in subjects of leadership and stewardship for the OpenStack community as a whole. Stewardship for OpenStack touches a couple of distinct areas | 18:03 |
| gothicmindfood | 1. Advising on governance/policy, especially for the TC and 2. Giving everyone in the community the resources and information they need to learn and grow as leaders | 18:04 |
| gothicmindfood | All of this work will be advisory and supportive in nature - the TC itself will always deliberate, vote on and enforce governance matters, and elected leaders within the community (TC members, PTLs, etc.) will be able to leverage our knowledge base and expertise to help their projects become more sustainable and invest in project members. | 18:04 |
| dhellmann | is anyone present today who wasn't able to make the training? | 18:04 |
| gothicmindfood | dhellmann: dims is here! | 18:04 |
| mugsie | o/ | 18:05 |
| amrith | dhellmann, so far it is only dims and mugsie | 18:05 |
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| gothicmindfood | anyone else lurking? | 18:05 |
| dhellmann | ok, cool | 18:05 |
| gothicmindfood | ah cool | 18:05 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I was looking for lurkers | 18:05 |
| amrith | but there are several others who want to follow up on eavesdrop | 18:05 |
| gothicmindfood | so - some of the things we might do: | 18:05 |
| * dims waves | 18:05 | |
| gothicmindfood | Provide feedback on governance changes the TC might be considering, especially as they relate to areas of consensus, vision, servant leadership, and sustainable stewardship of the community. | 18:05 |
| gothicmindfood | Provide recommendations to the TC on governance changes that may help them improve their decision making and effectiveness, and the well being of the community. | 18:05 |
| amrith | #chair gothicmindfood | 18:05 |
| openstack | Current chairs: amrith gothicmindfood | 18:05 |
| gothicmindfood | Provide recommendations for training and even trainings themselves for members of the OpenStack community who request them, on areas related to servant leadership, visioning, consensus decision making, crucial conversations, etc. | 18:05 |
| gothicmindfood | some of the things we won't do: | 18:06 |
| gothicmindfood | Tell anyone in the community how to behave or act on IRC or at conferences (that’s what the code of conduct is for) | 18:06 |
| amrith | #chair gothicmindfood dhellmann | 18:06 |
| openstack | Current chairs: amrith dhellmann gothicmindfood | 18:06 |
| gothicmindfood | Require anyone in the community to take a class or participate in any activity we provide. | 18:06 |
| gothicmindfood | If you weren’t at the training in Ann Arbor and some of these terms seem foreign/unknown - check some of these links out: https://www.zingtrain.com/content/power-visioning https://www.greenleaf.org/what-is-servant-leadership/, http://www.nonviolencetraining.org/Training/facilitation.htm | 18:06 |
| gothicmindfood | Also, if you’d like to participate in leadership training sessions in the future (I’m still working on what we can offer and when), please let me know! I’d love to include you! | 18:06 |
| * gothicmindfood exhales | 18:07 | |
| annegentle | You might be getting there, but what about the actual "resources" part from a "do this work because it's important/priority/strategic" aspect? | 18:07 |
| annegentle | my definition of resources may be off :) | 18:07 |
| amrith | thx gothicmindfood | 18:07 |
| dhellmann | #link https://www.zingtrain.com/content/power-visioning | 18:07 |
| gothicmindfood | annegentle: I mean resources in terms of providing access to training (or, hassling the foundation to help us provide access to it) | 18:07 |
| dhellmann | #link https://www.greenleaf.org/what-is-servant-leadership/ | 18:07 |
| dhellmann | #link http://www.nonviolencetraining.org/Training/facilitation.htm | 18:07 |
| gothicmindfood | dhellmann: thanks for doing the linkage there. I forgot my IRC meeting manners :) | 18:08 |
| gothicmindfood | annegentle: how did you think about resources? | 18:08 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: thinking of a specific example... just a sec. | 18:09 |
| * amrith looks to see if anyone has questions about gothicmidfood's introduction | 18:09 | |
| gothicmindfood | yeah - any others qs or general wonderment about why we're all here and what we're doing? | 18:09 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: so let's say a project needs docs resources or the project will die. good stewardship looks for ways to responsibly plan for that resource. | 18:10 |
| mugsie | so, would you see the out put of this group being guidelines, or harder hitting? | 18:10 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: I may be out of scope here. | 18:10 |
| mugsie | like charter modifications, or changes to to the foundation by laws | 18:10 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : I expect we'd start with changes under openstack/governance, and we have some of those being written already (see item #3 on the agenda) | 18:10 |
| mugsie | (proposed changes to obviously) | 18:10 |
| gothicmindfood | annegentle: to me, wrangling those resources is the job of the docs leadership as well as the TC (based on how important they feel) and well, all of us. But I wouldn't look at the SWG as some kind of resource finagler | 18:10 |
| annegentle | I'm thinking of wider stewardship like PTL training, makign sure projects have what they need to be successful. | 18:11 |
| gothicmindfood | though we might be able to help folks in leadership positions learn and and plan and get better at asking for help themselves :) | 18:11 |
| annegentle | Then when a PTL really is struggling, they know how to get help. | 18:11 |
| gothicmindfood | annegentle: I mean, I hestitate to call us available PTL therapists | 18:11 |
| annegentle | yeah, I don't see the swg as a trading market. | 18:11 |
| gothicmindfood | but kinda | 18:11 |
| dhellmann | so we would help with the "how" but not with the actual "resource acquisition" | 18:11 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: yeah, I was wondering what the "documents" would be refering to | 18:11 |
| amrith | mugsie, I expect that there will be some of those | 18:11 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: heh that would work as well, and still helps with my sceanario of "what do I do if I can't get what I need" | 18:11 |
| jroll | mugsie: another example is we might say "hi TC, openstack needs clearer expectations for projects written down somewhere" | 18:12 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : right now a few etherpads where folks are working on drafts, but eventually patches to the governance repo | 18:12 |
| dhellmann | jroll : ++ | 18:12 |
| gothicmindfood | mugsie: I think we're all about identifying gaps and possible solutions, either at the behest of the community or the TC themselves, but it's the TC that will make final decisions around matters. We could potentially get specific with recommendations, though. | 18:12 |
| amrith | we will have time to discuss the deliverables in detail in later items in the agenda. if you look at the agenda | 18:13 |
| amrith | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SWGMeeting | 18:13 |
| amrith | there's an etherpad on there for deliverables. | 18:13 |
| amrith | you may want to start penning thoughts there | 18:13 |
| amrith | now as we move ahead on the agenda ... | 18:13 |
| nikhil | I think we can call/make this a platform for learning new/added skills around stewardship, ? | 18:14 |
| gothicmindfood | amrith: we can haz real meeting time? | 18:14 |
| amrith | lets get one procedural thing out of the way first | 18:14 |
| amrith | 1. Establish schedule for weekly meeting | 18:14 |
| dhellmann | #topic establish schedule for weekly meeting | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "establish schedule for weekly meeting (Meeting topic: swg)" | 18:14 | |
| annegentle | nikhil: that's a decent framework yah | 18:14 |
| amrith | I realize that this time is not convenient to everyone. We need to find a time that is. One | 18:15 |
| amrith | thought I have is that we may be able to come to some consensus here but maybe that's hard | 18:15 |
| amrith | given that some key players (like ttx) aren't here. | 18:15 |
| amrith | Is the best thing to setup a doodle poll and come up with ideas? Any other proposals on how | 18:15 |
| amrith | we can do this? | 18:15 |
| * gothicmindfood really thinks it's super important to have as many people here from the TC as possible, in a sane-schedule kinda way | 18:15 | |
| dhellmann | a doodle is usually a good start | 18:15 |
| amrith | #action [amrith] setup a doodle | 18:15 |
| annegentle | amrith: yeah go ahead and doodle | 18:15 |
| * gothicmindfood will fill out a doodle | 18:15 | |
| nikhil | amrith: may be create a review against irc-meetings and doodle there? | 18:15 |
| amrith | ok, let's treat this procedural thing as done and just move right ahead to the thing we kind of started discussing. | 18:15 |
| amrith | #topic Identify a list of short-term deliverables for the SWG | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Identify a list of short-term deliverables for the SWG (Meeting topic: swg)" | 18:16 | |
| gothicmindfood | nikhil: there already is one :) | 18:16 |
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| nikhil | ouch, my bad | 18:16 |
| amrith | sorry for the interruption, but I think the conversation we started having re: resources is a good one | 18:16 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/338134/ | 18:16 |
| annegentle | nikhil: no worries | 18:16 |
| amrith | and maybe we should focus some time on getting a sense on where the edges of the deliverable should be. | 18:16 |
| amrith | for example, re: resources. | 18:16 |
| annegentle | amrith: I'm a terrible influence on agendas :) | 18:17 |
| amrith | and, do we have a sense for what some of the things are that we think we can deliver in realtively short order? | 18:17 |
| annegentle | #action look at the meeting review for best times to have this meeting | 18:17 |
| dhellmann | as jroll started to point out, there's a fair amount of "gap analysis" we could do between what we're doing today and what we'd like to be doing in terms of leadership | 18:17 |
| annegentle | #undo | 18:17 |
| annegentle | #action [all] look at the meeting review for best times to have this meeting | 18:17 |
| amrith | #chair annegentle | 18:18 |
| openstack | Current chairs: amrith annegentle dhellmann gothicmindfood | 18:18 |
| annegentle | hee thanks amrith | 18:18 |
| annegentle | #undo | 18:18 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7f5bc00a24d0> | 18:18 |
| annegentle | #undo | 18:18 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7f5bc0072cd0> | 18:18 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : you can #action without being chair | 18:18 |
| annegentle | #action [all] look at the meeting review for best times to have this meeting | 18:18 |
| gothicmindfood | amrith: you're thinking deliverables as of mid August as a thing? | 18:18 |
| gothicmindfood | also jroll ^^ ? | 18:18 |
| fungi | (but you can't #undo without being a chair) | 18:18 |
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| amrith | gothicmindfood, yes | 18:18 |
| annegentle | (yeah I was trying to rewrite it dhellmann derp :) ) | 18:18 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ah, thanks | 18:18 |
| gothicmindfood | and we said mid-August because feature-freeze for newton? | 18:19 |
| annegentle | timing sounds about right as a starting point | 18:19 |
| amrith | I'm hoping that we can get something to the TC in relatively short order, and some of those things may be things like an action plan for the next quarter or two. | 18:19 |
| annegentle | and also to take action | 18:19 |
| dhellmann | are our first deliverables more than the set of items we said we'd do on thursday in ann arbor? | 18:19 |
| amrith | dhellmann ++ | 18:19 |
| gothicmindfood | yup - just for kicks - when is the next TC election starting? | 18:19 |
| jroll | http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 18:19 |
| dhellmann | amrith : I can't tell if you're saying yes or no to my question | 18:19 |
| jroll | oct 3 | 18:19 |
| amrith | dhellmann, yes | 18:20 |
| dhellmann | ok | 18:20 |
| amrith | I believe that we are already delivering some of those things | 18:20 |
| mugsie | is there a list from the thursday? | 18:20 |
| gothicmindfood | cool. So those are two important dates | 18:20 |
| fungi | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 18:20 |
| amrith | such as the documents I know have already been written | 18:20 |
| amrith | mugsie, here is a short list | 18:20 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : not public, yet. this is all still in process, and will be coming. | 18:20 |
| amrith | 1. propose a spec for the swg to the tc | 18:20 |
| amrith | 2. propose an irc channel | 18:20 |
| amrith | 3. propose a meeting | 18:21 |
| amrith | 4. there were two documents (which are next on the agenda) that people have been writing | 18:21 |
| amrith | those are the big ones that I recall | 18:21 |
| gothicmindfood | and I had some questions that I asked the ZingTrain folks from us that I have answers on, too | 18:21 |
| gothicmindfood | fwiw | 18:21 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: my point is, that for others to understand context around a meeting, knowing them is useful | 18:21 |
| * amrith looks at old notes | 18:21 | |
| jroll | so from there, do we also want to make a list of demands^W recommendations for the TC, e.g. "agree on a shared vision for openstack", by aug15 or so? | 18:22 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : yeah, I get that. the notes from the meeting were not approved for publication, yet, and some of the folks who would need to agree to that aren't present. it's not ideal. :-/ | 18:22 |
| amrith | 5. some questions that gothicmindfood was going to ask of zingtrain | 18:22 |
| mugsie | ah, OK. | 18:22 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : we had at least an informal agreement to not publish so everyone felt free to speak their mind in the room. | 18:22 |
| annegentle | this is useful to me too since I couldn't get to the third day | 18:22 |
| annegentle | so thanks amrith for the list | 18:23 |
| mugsie | yeah, I remember the ML convo (and I think it was a good idea for the record, just not right this minute :) ) | 18:23 |
| gothicmindfood | jroll: I think both asking the TC for a vision of OpenStack, and a vision for the TC, as well as a review of their decision making model w/r/t consensus were all things on the table | 18:23 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : yea | 18:23 |
| dhellmann | amrith : is that the full todo list? 5 items? | 18:24 |
| jroll | gothicmindfood: right, so we should agree to make that list, and figure out how/where to publish it | 18:24 |
| amrith | dhellmann, looking | 18:24 |
| gothicmindfood | jroll: ++ | 18:24 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: those three would be awesome | 18:24 |
| gothicmindfood | any other requests we'd like to make of the TC? Any favorite karaoke songs? | 18:25 |
| amrith | 6. recommend that tc adopt a vision | 18:25 |
| amrith | 7. if there is a future training, what is the format, what is the size? should there be a session at summit? | 18:25 |
| gothicmindfood | amrith: I've got news on 7 (I put it at the end of the agenda) | 18:26 |
| amrith | 8. how do we bridge group #1 to the next and subsequent groups | 18:26 |
| gothicmindfood | oh, and 8, I guess. | 18:26 |
| * amrith apologises for not writing this list up ahead of time, should have guessed | 18:26 | |
| gothicmindfood | so here's a question: what is the mechanism by which we will make these recommendations to the TC? | 18:26 |
| amrith | 9. learn from Z how our group related to others; rapport, speed to jump to next things, etc., | 18:26 |
| amrith | 10. Whose role is it to write a vision for openstack? | 18:27 |
| dhellmann | gothicmindfood : would we do anything different from the normal "write it up and add it to the agenda" process? | 18:27 |
| jroll | dhellmann: as a resolution? | 18:27 |
| gothicmindfood | dhellmann: you mean the TC meeting agenda? I think that's probably a good habit/tradition to get into - SWG members attend the TC meetings and make recommendations there? | 18:27 |
| amrith | 11. How does one adopt BLC to openstack | 18:28 |
| dhellmann | jroll : not everything needs to be a resolution, but some will. | 18:28 |
| jroll | amrith: feels like you need an etherpad at this point | 18:28 |
| amrith | 12. how did Z implement visioning 1.0 | 18:28 |
| jroll | :) | 18:28 |
| amrith | jroll, yes | 18:28 |
| fungi | some things could probably just go right into the ptg | 18:28 |
| amrith | that sounds right | 18:28 |
| dhellmann | for example, saying "we think the tc should establish a vision for what it does" isn't really a resolution | 18:28 |
| jroll | dhellmann: right, so I'm wondering what the right place for that sort of thing is | 18:28 |
| nikhil | ++ | 18:28 |
| dhellmann | fungi : likely, yes | 18:28 |
| dims | amrith : gothicmindfood : dhellmann : is there anything we will be doing to build more cooperation between projects and get projects to invest/engage in cross project efforts? | 18:28 |
| amrith | 13. what is our (openstack's) triple bottom line | 18:29 |
| amrith | 14. who are our customers? | 18:29 |
| dhellmann | jroll : probably starting on the mailing list | 18:29 |
| jroll | dhellmann: nod, ok | 18:29 |
| dims | we seem to be going from top down (tc/vision etc) | 18:29 |
| amrith | 15. Should the TC use Z's consensus model | 18:29 |
| nikhil | dims: wasnt brought up afaict | 18:29 |
| amrith | 16. difference between LIVE WITH IT and LIVE BY IT | 18:29 |
| dhellmann | dims : a lot of the room felt that getting the tc's house in order was a first step to that | 18:30 |
| gothicmindfood | amrith: is flooding me with all of the hard questions we brought up on thursday, now | 18:30 |
| gothicmindfood | dims: I think that could be the result of the TC adopting some of our recommendations | 18:30 |
| annegentle | dims: I think it's going to come out of the work | 18:30 |
| dims | ack nikhil and dhellmann | 18:30 |
| amrith | sorry folks, I'm almost done with the list, may as well get it here in IRC and then I can put it into an etherpad | 18:30 |
| gothicmindfood | dims: but I don't see it as directly a part of the work the SWG does. | 18:30 |
| amrith | 17. [monty] write rules we live by | 18:30 |
| jroll | dims: imagine trying to get all of the individual contributors to agree on a shared vision :) | 18:30 |
| amrith | 18. Z's consensus; when you don't agree provide an alternative. How do we do that? | 18:31 |
| dims | jroll : haha | 18:31 |
| dhellmann | to be clear, this group is not trying to take over any responsibility of the tc. we're trying to identify areas where the tc can change to improve it's output. | 18:31 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ++ | 18:31 |
| dhellmann | and then make concrete proposals where possible | 18:31 |
| amrith | 19. how does one reconcile vision and election 'plank' | 18:31 |
| annegentle | plank meaning drop off point? | 18:31 |
| dims | dhellmann : as part of tc, i'd like to explore ways to do those things i mentioned. so.. | 18:31 |
| amrith | sorry, plank meaning election manifesto for a candidate | 18:31 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : plank as in part of an election platform | 18:31 |
| * annegentle thinks in pirate-speak? | 18:32 | |
| dhellmann | dims : absolutely | 18:32 |
| amrith | 20. propose the 'live by' clause | 18:32 |
| amrith | 21. what's the OS training compact | 18:32 |
| amrith | re: 21, how do we translate trainer and trainee? | 18:33 |
| nikhil | principles too besides vision | 18:33 |
| amrith | 22. how do we adopt BLC | 18:33 |
| amrith | 23. whole ball of twine about improving communication | 18:33 |
| dims | amrith you are overloading my brain :) | 18:33 |
| annegentle | amrith: continuously :) | 18:33 |
| amrith | dims, that's not possible. | 18:34 |
| gothicmindfood | dims: now you know how we felt a couple weeks ago! ;) | 18:34 |
| dims | lol gothicmindfood | 18:34 |
| annegentle | what did gothicmindfood learn from zingtrain? :) | 18:34 |
| amrith | 24. how do we know that we've succeeded? define success first; beware the gaming risk | 18:34 |
| gothicmindfood | annegentle: I can get into what they said in response to our qs if you want! | 18:34 |
| amrith | 25. next steps on training ... who should attend, where, face-to-face or virtual, rest of TC, before Barcelona or at Barcelona, | 18:35 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: should probably make sure we're at the end of this list :) | 18:35 |
| fungi | as an aside, expanding some of these acronyms will help those of us who need to search out their definitions in the zingtrain materials and similar documents | 18:35 |
| amrith | 26. Do we need a "TC Passport" (someone please explain this term for the eavesdrop readers) | 18:35 |
| annegentle | amrith: yeah I don't know that one | 18:35 |
| amrith | the passport is the thing new employees are handed | 18:35 |
| nikhil | fungi: I think once some pics are shared, it will be easier | 18:35 |
| gothicmindfood | amrith: 'TC Passport' is in reference to the idea that a new hire at zingerman's gets a passport when they first start out | 18:35 |
| amrith | it is their training regimen, progress report ... | 18:35 |
| annegentle | BLC=Bottom Line Change | 18:36 |
| dhellmann | zingerman's gives each new employee a "training passport" with the things in it they need to learn, and resources for where to learn them | 18:36 |
| fungi | thanks annegentle! | 18:36 |
| gothicmindfood | it summarizes what they're responsible for learning in their first 60 days | 18:36 |
| gothicmindfood | and sets expectations | 18:36 |
| annegentle | oh, neat | 18:36 |
| amrith | 27. Add a specific point in the release cycle where project teams nominate extra-ATC's | 18:36 |
| * gothicmindfood got a copy of one before she left ann arbor, fyi | 18:36 | |
| amrith | 28. cross project release themes | 18:36 |
| gothicmindfood | Bottom Line Change = a process that's designed to help implement any change that gets decided on in an organization | 18:36 |
| fungi | #27 would be a huge help to electorate wrangling, btw | 18:37 |
| gothicmindfood | basically, make it easier on everyone and create less friction during rollout | 18:37 |
| amrith | 29. write first draft of vision, culture and system. | 18:37 |
| amrith | 30. multiple PTL's; PTL for a feature across releases, ... (this will need context; people reading this in eavesdrop, don't freak out) | 18:38 |
| nikhil | lol | 18:38 |
| amrith | 31. Make contracts with positive acknowledgements; nit implicit assumption that all have received and will comply | 18:38 |
| gothicmindfood | #30 is really just about how do we hand the baton/caretaking of a release before it goes to EOL | 18:38 |
| amrith | 32. How to roll out notifications, is email the best thing? improve communication | 18:38 |
| nikhil | may be rephrase #30 as different model of PTL to release mapping | 18:38 |
| annegentle | fungi: oh that would | 18:39 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I planned to do #27 around milestone 3 | 18:39 |
| fungi | dhellmann: thanks, that should be great | 18:39 |
| amrith | 33. propose process for release theming; 3 goals, goal description, how to know you've met it, commitment, ... | 18:39 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann add extra-atc date to release schedule for milestone 3 | 18:39 |
| fungi | dhellmann: any time earlier than "last minute" would make things easier on us ;) | 18:39 |
| jroll | amrith: so I'm not sure if you're done with your list or not, but sounds like we should agree on a subset of the list to hack on over the next month | 18:39 |
| amrith | 34. How do things get on the goal list? | 18:39 |
| jroll | also timecheck, 20 minutes and two more things on the agenda | 18:40 |
| amrith | jroll, 2 pages to go, 47 done | 18:40 |
| dhellmann | fungi : m3 seemed like a good point for that sort of reflection | 18:40 |
| amrith | jroll, all done | 18:40 |
| amrith | thx for the time check | 18:40 |
| jroll | woo | 18:40 |
| amrith | so, now that I have a list; I'll make it an etherpad | 18:40 |
| dhellmann | amrith, maybe just add it to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/swg-short-list-deliverables | 18:40 |
| amrith | #action convert 34 items into etherpad, share with group and review for completeness next meeting | 18:40 |
| amrith | dhellmann, sure thing | 18:40 |
| fungi | (note, that is an action item for someone named "convert" as far as the minutes are concerned) | 18:41 |
| amrith | I think we've beaten #2 to death, is it time to move to #3? | 18:41 |
| amrith | #undo | 18:41 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7f5bc0af5290> | 18:41 |
| gothicmindfood | fungi: hahaha. Poor convert. | 18:41 |
| amrith | #ction [amrith] convert 34 items into etherpad, share with group and review for completeness next meeting | 18:41 |
| dhellmann | amrith : missing the a there | 18:42 |
| amrith | a or an? :) | 18:42 |
| fungi | a ction | 18:42 |
| dhellmann | amrith : in "#ction" | 18:42 |
| nikhil | #action [amrith] convert 34 items into etherpad, share with group and review for completeness next meeting | 18:42 |
| amrith | ah | 18:42 |
| amrith | #action [amrith] convert 34 items into etherpad, share with group and review for completeness next meeting | 18:42 |
| amrith | thx dhellmann | 18:43 |
| amrith | OK, ... | 18:43 |
| dhellmann | so, documents? | 18:43 |
| amrith | #topic ction [amrith] convert 34 items into etherpad, share with group and review for completeness next meeting | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ction [amrith] convert 34 items into etherpad, share with group and review for completeness next meeting (Meeting topic: swg)" | 18:43 | |
| amrith | dary | 18:43 |
| amrith | darn | 18:43 |
| amrith | #topic 3. Discuss any documents that are available for review | 18:43 |
| dhellmann | #undo | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "3. Discuss any documents that are available for review (Meeting topic: swg)" | 18:43 | |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7f5bbfd3e410> | 18:43 |
| amrith | go ahead dhellmann | 18:43 |
| dhellmann | hah | 18:43 |
| amrith | all yours | 18:43 |
| nikhil | :D | 18:43 |
| annegentle | heh | 18:43 |
| * jroll hands amrith a coffee | 18:43 | |
| * amrith gulps scotch | 18:44 | |
| annegentle | so I saw the monty one, any others? | 18:44 |
| * gothicmindfood steals the coffee from amrith | 18:44 | |
| dhellmann | I started some notes on goals (I forget which # that was from the list) | 18:44 |
| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-tc-goals | 18:44 |
| annegentle | specifically, [monty] write rules we live by | 18:44 |
| dhellmann | I've had a few folks read through it and leave comments, but it's not quite in a form where it's ready to be submitted to the tc | 18:44 |
| gothicmindfood | annegentle: oooh, got a link since mordred is away (I think)? | 18:44 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: looking, just a sec | 18:45 |
| dhellmann | I'm waiting for the list of principles, but since mordred's working on that and he's not here I don't know we want to publish that link or not | 18:45 |
| dhellmann | I don't know if he considers it ready | 18:45 |
| amrith | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/1nPlcXyI76 | 18:45 |
| amrith | that's monty's link | 18:45 |
| dhellmann | ok, well, I guess we've published it | 18:45 |
| jroll | :| | 18:45 |
| amrith | sorry dhellmann didn't see that | 18:45 |
| dhellmann | for the record, and for the future, if I'm ever working on a draft of something and have not yet shared it publicly, please do not share it for me | 18:45 |
| gothicmindfood | sorry mordred ^^ | 18:46 |
| dims | is anyone aware of the term "Apache Way" from ASF? http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#philosophy | 18:46 |
| amrith | yup, sorry mordred (who isn't here) | 18:46 |
| annegentle | thanks amrith | 18:46 |
| dhellmann | these can be sensitive topics, and as we discussed sometime's it's nice to have a little breathing space to talk about things privately before they become public | 18:46 |
| annegentle | dims: yeah | 18:46 |
| nikhil | just take that and put it into another etherpad | 18:47 |
| nikhil | delete contents of this one | 18:47 |
| fungi | the " | 18:47 |
| jroll | nikhil: etherpad stores history though | 18:47 |
| nikhil | I think people won't mind if it's going to be public later | 18:47 |
| * fungi has a terribly-located enter key | 18:47 | |
| dims | annegentle : brings back old memories :) | 18:47 |
| nikhil | jroll: limited history | 18:47 |
| annegentle | heh | 18:47 |
| fungi | the "apache way" seems a bit in the same vein as our "three opens" | 18:47 |
| fungi | at least from a creed standpoint | 18:47 |
| annegentle | fungi: four right? | 18:47 |
| nikhil | people deserve privacy or space to think | 18:48 |
| dims | did we drop one? :) | 18:48 |
| fungi | four, yes ;) | 18:48 |
| annegentle | hee dims | 18:48 |
| dims | hahaha | 18:48 |
| dhellmann | anyway, if you do have feedback about the link I posted then please leave it on the etherpad. I'll be working on turning that into a governance patch of some sort after we've discussed the principles list and I have something to link to in what I write up | 18:49 |
| * nikhil said that before reading dhellmann 's comment. glad to be on same page. | 18:49 | |
| dims | ack dhellmann | 18:49 |
| dims | i have to read logs for this meeting a few times... | 18:49 |
| mugsie | dims: you and me both | 18:50 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: deadline? | 18:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think another good early step for us is to turn that list of todos into a more documented plan | 18:50 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : I'm going to wait for mordred's patch, and I'm traveling next week, so I'm not really sure | 18:50 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ok, that's fine, just wondered how long I have to slice it in | 18:50 |
| annegentle | sounds like a week at least | 18:51 |
| dhellmann | oh, yeah, sorry, I thought you were asking me for my deadline for proposing | 18:51 |
| dhellmann | yeah, at least a week | 18:51 |
| gothicmindfood | dhellmann: agreed. Some of those goals are interlocked and also a bit vague. So we should have some milestones set up and some 'did we achieve this?' questions answered. | 18:52 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: sorry, I meant I need a deadline :) | 18:52 |
| gothicmindfood | dhellmann: (I was referencing amrith 's long list, not your Ocata etherpad, btw) | 18:53 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : I won't be doing anything with that document before 25 july | 18:53 |
| dhellmann | gothicmindfood : it took me a second, but I worked that out | 18:53 |
| dhellmann | we're almost out of time, what's up next? | 18:53 |
| jroll | update from colette? | 18:54 |
| dhellmann | gothicmindfood you had a training update? | 18:54 |
| dhellmann | #topic Updates on next leadership training for TC @ ZingTrain | 18:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Updates on next leadership training for TC @ ZingTrain (Meeting topic: swg)" | 18:54 | |
| gothicmindfood | dhellmann: beat me to it! | 18:54 |
| gothicmindfood | k - so I've spoken with the 5 TC members that were unable to attend the last training | 18:54 |
| gothicmindfood | and of the two times in Sept that looked good for ZingTrain, September 14-16 seemed more reasonable to them | 18:55 |
| dhellmann | do we have folks signed up to go through again for continuity? | 18:55 |
| gothicmindfood | 2 folks in particular needed to be able to attend the infra sprint the next week in Germany | 18:55 |
| gothicmindfood | dhellmann: I have not posted a sign up sheet because I haven't gotten confirmation from the Foundation that they will pay for it | 18:55 |
| gothicmindfood | yet | 18:55 |
| dhellmann | k | 18:55 |
| gothicmindfood | having a meeting with some folks next week on that | 18:55 |
| gothicmindfood | also, re: Barcelona | 18:56 |
| amrith | gothicmindfood, this is sept 14 to 16 in ann arbor? | 18:56 |
| gothicmindfood | I proposed a panel discussion with myself, ttx, mordred and amrith moderating, with an extra seat available potentially, for someone from ZingTrain to participate in. | 18:56 |
| gothicmindfood | need confirmation from the Foundation that they can support that (or not) next week as well | 18:56 |
| gothicmindfood | amrith: yes, it'd be sept 14-16 in Ann Arbor | 18:56 |
| gothicmindfood | if we can get the finances rolling on it | 18:57 |
| gothicmindfood | the panel in barcelona is largely set to discuss the purpose of the SWG with the community, talk about some of the things the TC might be doing as a result of SWG recommendations, and also to let the community ask questions about the whole thing | 18:58 |
| amrith | oops, time check | 18:58 |
| amrith | 2m to go | 18:58 |
| gothicmindfood | yup | 18:58 |
| gothicmindfood | amrith: those are my updates, for that topic :) | 18:58 |
| dhellmann | sounds good, thanks, gothicmindfood | 18:58 |
| gothicmindfood | #topic Open Discussion | 18:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: swg)" | 18:58 | |
| amrith | OK, hearing none ... | 18:59 |
| amrith | I will summarize the meeting in an email with action items. | 18:59 |
| amrith | Thx to gothicmidfood and dhellmann for the resources. | 18:59 |
| amrith | also make the list and put it into the etherpad. | 18:59 |
| fungi | apparently the "three opens" predates our four | 18:59 |
| amrith | any final thoughts before we run out of time ... | 18:59 |
| fungi | #link https://web.archive.org/web/20100212211814/http://blog.openwetware.org/scienceintheopen/2009/04/02/open-data-open-source-open-process-open-research/ | 18:59 |
| dhellmann | fungi : 4 is one more than 3, therefore clearly superior | 19:00 |
| amrith | ok, thanks all for attending | 19:00 |
| gothicmindfood | thanks amrith ! | 19:00 |
| nikhil | thanks! | 19:00 |
| amrith | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 14 19:00:36 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swg/2016/swg.2016-07-14-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swg/2016/swg.2016-07-14-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| jroll | thanks y'all | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swg/2016/swg.2016-07-14-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| devananda | gah. I got the timezone wrong :( | 19:01 |
| amrith | hi devananda | 19:01 |
| annegentle | devananda: aw! | 19:01 |
| fungi | there is only one timezone, and that timezone is utc | 19:01 |
| jroll | ^^ | 19:01 |
| * devananda reads the last hour of backscroll with a sadface | 19:02 | |
| gothicmindfood | devananda: daylight savings time is a bummer for those of us who deal with robots | 19:02 |
| * fungi is not sure whether to be offended or complimented at being called a "robot" | 19:03 | |
| devananda | yea - this is why I like the openstack calendar feed so much | 19:03 |
| devananda | it saves me from having to think about this myself | 19:03 |
| gothicmindfood | fungi: the robot is UTC, not the people ;) | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I use utc in my irc client and now I basically know rough utc time all the time | 19:08 |
| clarkb | an easy trick is to know when utc midnight is in local tz | 19:08 |
| clarkb | of course if you live in silly places it changes twice a year | 19:08 |
| fungi | same here, though also on my mobile phone, car clock, and many of the clocks around my home | 19:09 |
| devananda | this is what I get for reading email on my phone in the morning, and creating my own calendar reminder ... | 19:09 |
| fungi | basically any clocks christine won't complain about are all in utc | 19:09 |
| devananda | fungi: interesting. I might try putting my phone in UTC ... | 19:09 |
| clarkb | devananda: if you android you can't \o/ | 19:10 |
| clarkb | thanks google | 19:10 |
| devananda | clarkb: wat? :( | 19:10 |
| fungi | newer phones are better about it. older phones needed to have time sync disabled because every time i got off a plane they decided to reupdate to local tzs | 19:10 |
| clarkb | devananda: I think because google uses google standard time they don't care about the rest of us and our utc | 19:10 |
| devananda | fungi: yea. I have also had the problem with my last phone, when it loses cell & gps, it would reset the system TZ | 19:10 |
| devananda | this happened about half the time I got in the elevator at my apartment... | 19:11 |
| clarkb | yup just doble checked tehre is no utc option in the built in clock | 19:11 |
| devananda | wow, yea | 19:11 |
| amrith | clarkb how do you set irc client to use utc? | 19:11 |
| devananda | GMT ...but no UTC | 19:11 |
| jroll | amrith: set system clock to UTC :) | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jroll: thats what I did :) | 19:12 |
| jroll | ditto | 19:12 |
| amrith | jroll, that would be for the whole machine ... | 19:12 |
| devananda | ditto | 19:12 |
| amrith | not just the irc client | 19:12 |
| amrith | oh, ok | 19:12 |
| clarkb | amrith: ya but thats all my machine does | 19:12 |
| devananda | amrith: yes. I run my irc client in a tiny cloud instance | 19:12 |
| jroll | amrith: well, my client is on a server | 19:12 |
| clarkb | amrith: runs screen and weechat | 19:12 |
| jroll | we're all the same apparently | 19:12 |
| * jroll starts tmux vs screen flamewar | 19:13 | |
| amrith | ah, I run a bouncer with a client on my PC | 19:13 |
| clarkb | jroll: I resisted tmux for a long time beacuse half the distros I had to work with didn't have tmux packages. But thats no longer true anymore | 19:13 |
| amrith | jroll, don't bother, I won't go for that. my pc runs windoze | 19:13 |
| jroll | oh so we need an OS flamewar first :D | 19:14 |
| devananda | haha | 19:14 |
| amrith | I can go for that ... | 19:14 |
| clarkb | also I think using ^b would be hard to get used to | 19:14 |
| jroll | yeah, most people remap | 19:15 |
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