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| dhellmann | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:00 |
|---|---|---|
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for Qiming TravT gordc dirk mriedem SergeyLukjanov | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for daemontool jroll boris-42 redrobot flaper87 rhochmuth | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for fungi flwang dims vipul johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for docaedo stevemar mtreinish bswartz adam_g adrian_otto | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 16 21:00:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for zigo Piet sdake mugsie sheeprine thinrichs | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for jklare loquacities smelikyan Daisy skraynev odyssey4me | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for catherineD dhellmann dprince hyakuhei notmyname devkulkarni | 21:00 |
| docaedo | o/ | 21:00 |
| elmiko | o/ | 21:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 21:00 |
| redrobot | ohai! | 21:00 |
| dulek | o/ | 21:00 |
| diablo_rojo | hello :) | 21:00 |
| jgregor | Hello | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | thingee asked me to lead the meeting until he's on a stable wifi connection, which should happen shortly | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | #chair thingee | 21:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: dhellmann thingee | 21:00 |
| samueldmq | hi all | 21:00 |
| adam_g | o/ | 21:00 |
| samueldmq | dhellmann: may I have my name added to the list of courtesy ping too ? :) | 21:01 |
| loquacities | o/ | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | samueldmq : yes, I'll make a note of that (I'm not sure if thingee has a separate list, I got this one from last week's meeting) | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | #action thingee to add samueldmq to the courtesy p ing list | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | #undo | 21:01 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x98b4290> | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | #action thingee to add samueldmq to the courtesy ping list | 21:01 |
| nikhil | o/ | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting our agenda for today | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | #topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| dhellmann | who has announcements? | 21:02 |
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| dhellmann | #info release team: final non-client library releases coming up Feb 22-26 | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | #info release team: feature freeze for Mitaka coming up Feb 29-4 | 21:02 |
| nikhil | dhellmann: add me to courtesy reminders too | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | #link http://releases.openstack.org/mitaka/schedule.html the release schedule | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | #action thingee add nikhil to courtesy ping list | 21:02 |
| samueldmq | dhellmann: thanks | 21:03 |
| bknudson_ | Ops mid-cycles going on | 21:03 |
| sdake | sup dhellmann | 21:03 |
| cdent | last week we had some discussion about quota; I went back to nova-last to ask for an interested party to participate. alaski said he would keep an eye on that. | 21:03 |
| sdake | oh crossproject roger | 21:03 |
| cdent | s/nova-last/nova-land/ | 21:03 |
| nikhil | cool | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | bknudson_ : tell all the ops we said "hi" | 21:03 |
| bknudson_ | I'm not there! also, maybe it's done already | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | hi, sdake :-) | 21:04 |
| nikhil | we'd have the x-prj spec up later this week | 21:04 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: I'm not sure whether this is worth mentioning here or not: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/086706.html | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | bknudson_ : oh, well | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : sure, that's what this section of the meeting is for | 21:04 |
| mtreinish | but it's removing a ML that used to be there, which seems sorta cp | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | #info the openstack-qa mailing list is officially shut down | 21:04 |
| bknudson_ | I didn't know about http://status.openstack.org/openstack-health/#/g/build_queue/periodic | 21:04 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : do you have a link to your blog post about the dashboard handy? | 21:05 |
| flwang | o/ | 21:05 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: this one: http://blog.kortar.org/?p=279 | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | that's the one | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | #link http://blog.kortar.org/?p=279 mtreinish wrote up a nice description of the new openstack health dashboard | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | what other cp teams do we have represented today? docs? stable? | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | cdent : sorry, I missed your comment earlier. is there some place we need to make a note about alaski's participation in that (I missed last week's meeting) | 21:07 |
| fungi | infra, but we don't have any cross-project announcements this week afaik | 21:07 |
| cdent | dhellmann: no, don't think so. as long as the people driving the x-spec are aware it's good | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : ack, sorry to leave you out | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | cdent : sounds good | 21:08 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | hi, thingee | 21:08 |
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| sheel | hi | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | it sounds like that covers the announcements, unless thingee has anything? | 21:08 |
| * thingee unstable connection. will probably drop off in 22 mins | 21:08 | |
| thingee | nothing from me | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | ok, let's move on then | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | #topic A Common Policy Scenario Across All Projects | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "A Common Policy Scenario Across All Projects (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:08 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245629/ | 21:09 |
| thingee | jamielennox: ^ | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | aha, I was just going to ask who is driving this | 21:09 |
| jamielennox | So basically i was looking to get a broader cross project view on the above spec | 21:09 |
| sballe | dhellmann: is this user policy? or somethign else | 21:10 |
| jamielennox | more out of how services grew than anything else we've been stuck in an admin or non-admin kind of policy for a long time now | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | sballe: yes, it's related to policy definitions within the applications for access control, etc. | 21:10 |
| jamielennox | and from a keystone perspective we keep trying to add new security features that really aren't a lot of help when operators have to use the admin role to get anything done | 21:10 |
| jamielennox | the goal of the spec is to define a scenario, a couple of roles that everyone can agree on and would implement by default | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | jamielennox : I see some comments in recent reviews about names of things, which makes me think this is not so controversial but needs some time to think about little details. is that your understanding of the state of the spec, or do you think there might be uncovered issues? | 21:11 |
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| dhellmann | s/uncovered/as yet uncovered/ | 21:11 |
| jamielennox | this would not prevent any operator from defining their own roles and policy as they do now, but it would significantly increase the security of those deployments who don't want to change policy files | 21:11 |
| cdent | I think there's also some concern about size/extent, dhellmann | 21:12 |
| * notmorgan is lurking (sorry) | 21:12 | |
| jamielennox | dhellmann: so there is some questioning of naming (as always) | 21:12 |
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| jamielennox | but the other question that dolphm and i have been going back and forward on and could use some broader scrutiny is how extensive we want this to be | 21:12 |
| dolphm | sorry, joined just a second ago | 21:12 |
| jamielennox | initially the plan was to just provide some basic roles and improve on the current scenario | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | jamielennox : a phased approach does have some appealing aspects | 21:13 |
| jamielennox | the spec sort of grew from there to doing fairly fine grained roles | 21:13 |
| jamielennox | either work and the appeal of doing this in one go is not having to update every project's policy.json multiple times | 21:13 |
| diablo_rojo | jamielennox: I got a few cinder cores to weigh in and they are all saying the proposed roles are more complicated than they need to be but agree that there should be more than just admin and non admin | 21:13 |
| mugsie | yeah - i like the new project / read only roles, but not the more permjssion style roles | 21:14 |
| dolphm | diablo_rojo: that's part of the intent - it's more roles than any one user / deployer needs, but covers all the bases for everyone | 21:14 |
| elmiko | seemed to me that you don't *have* to descend into the deep end of the role configurations in that spec right away, or even ever. but, they seemed like nice options. | 21:14 |
| jamielennox | diablo_rojo: so we asked for feedback at the tokyo summit and have talked to operators since and this seemed to cover 90% of their use cases, we're definetly looking at this from an ops perspective rather than de | 21:15 |
| dolphm | by convention, there's probably a role defined for what you need | 21:15 |
| jamielennox | with the per manager roles i think we would cover everything | 21:15 |
| breton | don't orgs already have their idea about what their policy is? Maybe our efforts to polish policy.json should rather go into re-using existing orgs' roles and policies? | 21:15 |
| dolphm | elmiko: i'd want to split the granular (api managers and per capabilities roles in particular) into a separate spec if we're going to go halfway on anything | 21:15 |
| dolphm | instead* of going halfway | 21:15 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: ++ | 21:15 |
| dolphm | breton: that is exactly where this conversation stems from | 21:16 |
| elmiko | dolphm: i think that's fair and most likely sensible | 21:16 |
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| elmiko | i don't have an objections to the fine grained stuff, but i see it as optional to the end-user/deployer | 21:16 |
| jamielennox | breton: yes, we want to polish policy - the problem is we want all services to polish their policy in a consistent way | 21:16 |
| dolphm | elmiko: absolutely is optional, as proposed | 21:16 |
| jamielennox | breton: hence defining a scenario that they would all aim for rather than everyone make up their own roles | 21:17 |
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| jamielennox | essentially i want people to take the spec back to their ops and project teams and comment on whether the proposed roles are sufficient as it'd be nice to not need to take this through to summit | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | ok, that's a good call to action for this one | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | does anyone else have any questions to raise right now? | 21:19 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: do you have a different timeline there? | 21:19 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: or action? | 21:19 |
| dolphm | nope, that's my goal | 21:19 |
| dolphm | i'd like to propose the resulting policy to at least keystone and nova | 21:19 |
| dolphm | i've done keystone, but i went all the way with it | 21:19 |
| dolphm | if we're going to break the spec down, i'll do two separate patch sequences | 21:20 |
| dolphm | for example, my current patch sequence for keystone starts here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274143/ | 21:20 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: given the nature of keystone i actually don't mind if it goes per manager roles, but obviously on top of the basic ones and not necessarily something we recommend to all projects | 21:20 |
| dolphm | i add an identity_admin, then managers, then observers, then per-capability roles | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | #info the goal is to review the proposed roles before the summit | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | #action everyone please review the common policy spec with your teams | 21:21 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: still want to split the effort apart then. my goal in working keystone and nova is to illustrate the impact of this spec to all the services under big tent | 21:21 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: ok | 21:21 |
| dolphm | implementing in other projects should be low hanging fruit from there | 21:21 |
| dolphm | except for project's like ironic :P where there's a bigger hurdle to climb first (using policy at all) | 21:22 |
| jamielennox | can we put us back on the agenda for a fortnight? | 21:22 |
| jamielennox | ahh, that's 2 weeks | 21:22 |
| bknudson_ | we don't use the metric system here | 21:22 |
| nikhil | I have a question around implementation of this | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | jamielennox : sure, you can do that by editing the wiki page | 21:22 |
| jamielennox | dhellmann: yep, just aiming to give a timeframe to the project teams | 21:23 |
| dolphm | i'll be afk for this meeting in 2 weeks | 21:23 |
| nikhil | what level/aspects of services are expected to adhere to this granular sample policy file? | 21:23 |
| dolphm | nikhil: ask! | 21:23 |
| diablo_rojo | \whois dolphm | 21:23 |
| nikhil | (sorry the first one was to avoid last min topic switch) | 21:23 |
| dolphm | nikhil: what do you mean by level/aspects ? | 21:23 |
| dolphm | diablo_rojo: =) | 21:23 |
| diablo_rojo | dolphm: Lol sorry :) | 21:23 |
| nikhil | yeah, I will take glance as example | 21:24 |
| dolphm | nikhil: Dolph Mathews @ Rackspace | 21:24 |
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| dolphm | oops, diablo_rojo ^ | 21:24 |
| nikhil | :) | 21:24 |
| nikhil | is it merely roles that are elaborated or | 21:24 |
| nikhil | do we have a this sample deployment that points to roles for say "protected properties" that may be used | 21:25 |
| nikhil | ? | 21:25 |
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| nikhil | dunno, this may be on the edge of what we want to provide and what we can actually provide | 21:25 |
| dolphm | nikhil: elaborated is a good way to put it | 21:25 |
| nikhil | gotcha | 21:25 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: jamielennox: I also have a question :) | 21:25 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: ask away! | 21:25 |
| dolphm | protip: never ask for permission to ask questions | 21:26 |
| samueldmq | the per capability roles are the finest we provide right ? | 21:26 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: yes, as currently proposed by the spec | 21:26 |
| samueldmq | so, isn't it going to be hard to an operator to sync all those fined grained roles inside keystone | 21:26 |
| samueldmq | as projects add/remove APIs | 21:26 |
| dolphm | there isn't anything finer unless you're talking about per-resource RBAC (like this user has this capability on this particular VM, regardless of the VM's tenancy) | 21:26 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: you don't need to create any of these roles in keystone | 21:27 |
| samueldmq | are we willing to provide tools to help them in that task ? | 21:27 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: not one | 21:27 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: don't they come from the token ? | 21:27 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: and yes, we could totally provide a openstack role gotta-create-them-all <policy.json> | 21:27 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: the roles a user actually has are expressed in the token, yes | 21:27 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: the roles a user needs to have is expressed in policy | 21:27 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: yes, I am in the most complex case, where one uses all the per-capability roles in his org | 21:28 |
| dolphm | this change would make policy read like: admin OR identity_admin OR catalog_manager OR endpoint_manager OR endpoint_create | 21:28 |
| samueldmq | so he could make use of such a tool to load the roles in his keystone | 21:28 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: sure, why not | 21:28 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: nice | 21:28 |
| samueldmq | I was just making sure about this, I like the idea (and you know!) | 21:29 |
| samueldmq | :) | 21:29 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: thanks | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | we do have another topic for today, are we ready to move on? | 21:29 |
| dolphm | or for a read-only operation like "list endpoints", policy would effectively be: admin, observer, identity_admin, identity_observer, catalog_manager, endpoint_manager, list_endpoints | 21:30 |
| dolphm | we can move on if there's another topic | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | dolphm : I don't want to cut you short, I thought we'd hit a lull | 21:30 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: ++ | 21:30 |
| jamielennox | dhellmann: i'm done | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | ok, we can come back during open discussion if anyone thinks of other questions | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | #topic Support for 4-byte unicode for naming volume, snapshot, instance etc. | 21:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support for 4-byte unicode for naming volume, snapshot, instance etc. (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:30 | |
| dhellmann | sheel & jgregor, you're up | 21:30 |
| jgregor | Hello | 21:30 |
| sheel | dhellmann: yes we are there | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | can you give a brief introduction of the issue? it sounds like a mysql configuration change? | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/280371/ | 21:31 |
| jgregor | So as of right now MySQL does not support 4 byte unicode | 21:31 |
| sheel | ok, so here we want to discuss for support for 4 byte unicode characters in different components.. | 21:31 |
| bknudson_ | keystone doesn't configure mysql as far as I know | 21:31 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: ++ | 21:32 |
| bknudson_ | we just use whatever it's got | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | jgregor : it doesn't support them in any configuration at all? | 21:32 |
| * dhellmann was drafted to chair at the last minute and didn't read the spec ;-) | 21:32 | |
| jgregor | dhellmann: Not currently | 21:32 |
| dulek | From reading the spec I believe it's DB/table/column charset problem? By default it's not 4-byte? | 21:33 |
| jgregor | So this was brought up in a Cinder meeting, and it was pointed out there that this could be cross project worthy | 21:33 |
| jgregor | By default it is not | 21:33 |
| sheel | dulek: right | 21:33 |
| jgregor | We would need to update the char set to utf8mb4 | 21:33 |
| bknudson_ | we have had problems in the past where we didn't set the charset on the columns... | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | yes, I think we would want all databases to be configured with this setting the same way | 21:34 |
| notmorgan | hm. i worry we're going to run into charset utf-8 issues again. | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | is that something we do within the schemas in each project? | 21:34 |
| notmorgan | but it's not an unreasonable thing to ask. | 21:34 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: in most cases we specify now, iirc, utf-8 | 21:34 |
| jgregor | notmorgan: What issues were you running into? | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : where? | 21:34 |
| bknudson_ | keystone does this: 'ALTER DATABASE %s DEFAULT CHARACTER SET utf8' | 21:34 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: in the migrations. | 21:34 |
| notmorgan | jgregor: we have had many issues with the check to make sure things are utf-8 in keystone | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | maybe someone from nova can comment, but I thought they were trying to get away from huge impact migration scripts to support rolling upgrades without downtime | 21:35 |
| bknudson_ | and all our tables do mysql_engine='InnoDB', mysql_charset='utf8' | 21:35 |
| notmorgan | jgregor: it's openstack code, not mysql issues. | 21:35 |
| cdent | dhellmann: yes, that's an open question, discussed on the spec | 21:35 |
| nikhil | yeah, no consistency here is making the code ugly in a lot of places | 21:35 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: on new tables and on initial creats | 21:35 |
| dulek | dhellmann: It's would still be possible to make such migration while keeping the rolling-upgrades guidelines. | 21:36 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: but yes all tables would need an alter. | 21:36 |
| dulek | It's just a lot of additional work. | 21:36 |
| nikhil | there are these corner cases to be handled in different places that if missed are resulting into 5xx responses | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | is the setting table-wide, or column-specific? | 21:36 |
| nikhil | and I'd say that really bad | 21:36 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: table wide in mysql | 21:36 |
| nikhil | that's* | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : thanks | 21:36 |
| notmorgan | i've never tried a column specific charset. | 21:36 |
| notmorgan | nor looked to see if it even exists | 21:36 |
| cdent | nikhil: there's two problems/goals, right? One is to trap the exception that is currently causing the 500 and return a 400 instead. The other is to make it possible to use the wide charsets. We shouldn't conflate those two. | 21:37 |
| Kiall | Dumb Q I don't see answered in the spec, what languages make use of 4byte Unicode and can't be represented in 3 bytes? | 21:37 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: bknudson_: ++ keystone migration https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/5b868ab849d931b24c8832075fc4d36aef54550b/keystone/common/sql/migrate_repo/versions/067_kilo.py#L36-L37 | 21:37 |
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| jgregor | cdent: That is correct | 21:37 |
| sheel | Kiall: Some example in different projects where we notify problem handling 4 byte unicodes: | 21:37 |
| sheel | Nova: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1545729 | 21:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1545729 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Use 4 byte unicode for entity names in mysql" [Undecided,Invalid] - Assigned to Sheel Rana (ranasheel2000) | 21:37 |
| sheel | Keystone: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1545736 | 21:37 |
| sheel | Cinder: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1542413 | 21:37 |
| sheel | Glance : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/ | 21:37 |
| sheel | heat : https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1545740 | 21:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1545736 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "keystone role create failed when 4 byte unicode character is provided in name field" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Sheel Rana (ranasheel2000) | 21:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1542413 in Cinder "Unable to use 4-bytes unicode when creating volume, volume_type, CG, etc" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Jacob Gregor (jgregor) | 21:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1545740 in heat "support for unicode character handling in stack-create operation" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Sheel Rana (ranasheel2000) | 21:37 |
| jgregor | Kiall: Chinese, Japanese, Korean | 21:37 |
| nikhil | oh gosh | 21:37 |
| nikhil | cdent: and in glance we'd this issue were we are changing the responses for 500s to 4xx but that's just | 21:38 |
| nikhil | pain as it's merely redressing issues for two types of DBs (one being MySQL) | 21:38 |
| sheel | nikhil: cdent: yes but atleast in glance things are handled gracefully | 21:38 |
| Kiall | jgregor: thanks, I somehow thought those were covered in 3byte. | 21:38 |
| * bswartz notices new topic | 21:38 | |
| nikhil | as we support more DBs I think we are going to run into multiple of such issues | 21:38 |
| nikhil | sheel: sure, but after a ton!!! of work | 21:38 |
| bswartz | +1 for 4-byte utf-8 support | 21:38 |
| nikhil | and making the code ugly as hell | 21:38 |
| sheel | nikhil: yep | 21:39 |
| nikhil | and catching stuff where it shouldn't necessarily be | 21:39 |
| bknudson_ | I would prefer it if keystone didn't have to care about this. | 21:39 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: agreed | 21:39 |
| nikhil | ++ | 21:39 |
| nikhil | same goes for glance | 21:39 |
| mugsie | jgregor: are you sure they are not in utf8 3byte? | 21:40 |
| sheel | mugsie: some of them are not there in 3 bytes... | 21:40 |
| sheel | https://www.drupal.org/node/1314214 | 21:40 |
| Kiall | Another q.. Has anyone measured the performance impact of switching a large e.g. instances table over? | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | Kiall : the impact of the migration itself, or of running with it that way after the migration? | 21:41 |
| fungi | reminds me of during the vancouver summit when we discovered that putting a 4-byte codepoint in a pad caused etherpad to go into a mad crash-and-restart loop | 21:41 |
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| notmorgan | so, it's some kanji not all that are affected. | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yep | 21:41 |
| notmorgan | not all. | 21:41 |
| bswartz | I understood it the issue in mysql was that tables consumed much more disk/memory | 21:41 |
| Kiall | Running with it after migration | 21:41 |
| dulek | Kiall: Well, online-schema-upgrades guidelines Nova have would block such migration. It would require an approach with a table copy probably. | 21:41 |
| bswartz | any performance concerns would be related to exploded resource consumption | 21:42 |
| dulek | Kiall: Ah, okay, my asnwer assumed migration itself. | 21:42 |
| bknudson_ | does it expand utf to fixed-width? | 21:42 |
| fungi | fwiw infra basically went through the necessary mysql changes to switch etherpad tables to 4-byte unicode encoding/collation, and the commands in the spec look like what i remember us doing | 21:42 |
| bknudson_ | (mysql) | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | fungi : cool, that's good to know | 21:42 |
| dulek | We seem to agree that this is a lot of work for any project. Is it really worth it? | 21:43 |
| stevemar | dulek: that's what i was asking when the spec was proposed | 21:44 |
| bknudson_ | what's the work involved? | 21:44 |
| stevemar | i couldn't get a clear use case, aside from "i want to use 4-byte characters" | 21:44 |
| notmorgan | so, for keystone, i don't see a huge reason why we wouldn't want this. it would be a change to create a new migration and update our starting one (we're not on the rolling migrations stuff yet) | 21:44 |
| notmorgan | but, it is a chunk of work regardless. | 21:44 |
| bswartz | I think it's worth it -- it's a matter of correctness | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think if we have users or potential uses who can't put their language into the database, we should fix that. | 21:45 |
| notmorgan | for nova or other serivices that are on the rolling schema thing, it's a ton of work. | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | *potential users | 21:45 |
| dulek | bknudson_: In case of Nova and Cinder migrations will get really complicated due to rolling upgrades support. | 21:45 |
| smcginnis | bswartz: You want to use emojis for your share names, don't you. | 21:45 |
| sheel | bswartz: +1 | 21:45 |
| bswartz | ¬_¬ | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | dulek : yeah, I think we're going to need more detail about how to make those scenarios work before approving the spec | 21:45 |
| bknudson_ | let's say the user configured mysql correctly, does openstack code force 3-byte? | 21:45 |
| stevemar | openstack server create "(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)" | 21:45 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: our migrations would override it | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | bknudson_ : oh, wow, I hope not | 21:45 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: but python shouldn't care | 21:46 |
| smcginnis | stevemar: hah! | 21:46 |
| dulek | dhellmann: Sure, I can try to PoC something with sheel for Cinder to make amount of work measurable. | 21:46 |
| notmorgan | python has supported wide utf-8 since 2.2 | 21:46 |
| notmorgan | iirc | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | stevemar : I think you mean terminate not create | 21:46 |
| notmorgan | https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0261/ i think | 21:46 |
| stevemar | dhellmann: oh right, silly me | 21:46 |
| cdent | the issue is with explicit charset declaration in migrations | 21:46 |
| stevemar | :) | 21:46 |
| cdent | and mysql's use of utf8 to _not_ meant 4byte. to get that you have to be explicit | 21:46 |
| stevemar | dulek: that sounds like a good plan | 21:46 |
| sheel | dulek: yep | 21:47 |
| bknudson_ | cdent: like mysql_charset='utf8' ? | 21:47 |
| cdent | yes | 21:47 |
| bknudson_ | oops!! | 21:47 |
| bknudson_ | we did that to prevent some other problem! | 21:47 |
| cdent | of course | 21:47 |
| dhellmann | cdent : yeah, I wonder if we can build some tools to automate checks for that | 21:47 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: just don't do it in the migrate way oslo_db does for charset utf-8 | 21:47 |
| notmorgan | so it checks before a new migration, so you get wedged :( | 21:48 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : yeah :-( | 21:48 |
| Kiall | notmorgan: that was fun.. Or not. | 21:48 |
| dhellmann | sheel & jgregor: is it clear what your next steps are? | 21:49 |
| jgregor | dhellmann: Yep | 21:49 |
| bknudson_ | can we just store strings in binary? | 21:49 |
| sheel | dhellmann: yeah. I think measurement of actual work required for supporting it | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | bknudson_ : gzip or bz2? | 21:49 |
| dulek | jgregor, sheel: I can support you on the Cinder PoC from rolling upgrades perspective. | 21:50 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: base64 encode! | 21:50 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: everything! | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan :-) | 21:50 |
| * bswartz barfs | 21:50 | |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: including after we base64 the base64 encoded encoded string string | 21:50 |
| jgregor | dulek: Sounds great | 21:50 |
| sheel | dulek: yes, that would work.. | 21:50 |
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| samueldmq | notmorgan: ++ to get it as small as possible | 21:50 |
| samueldmq | :-) | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | ok, sounds good | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | #topic Open discussion | 21:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:51 | |
| * notmorgan pushes soapbox back under the table. | 21:51 | |
| dhellmann | we have a few minutes, if we have any late announcements or need to revisit something we've already discussed | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | going once | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | going twice | 21:53 |
| notmorgan | SOLD! | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | ok, then, I think we'll call that done | 21:53 |
| cdent | huzzah | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | thanks for joining us everyone | 21:53 |
| nikhil | thx | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 21:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 16 21:53:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2016/crossproject.2016-02-16-21.00.html | 21:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2016/crossproject.2016-02-16-21.00.txt | 21:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2016/crossproject.2016-02-16-21.00.log.html | 21:53 |
| elmiko | thanks dhellmann | 21:53 |
| samueldmq | dhellmann: thanks! | 21:54 |
| diablo_rojo | Thank you dhellmann | 21:54 |
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| bknudson_ | This doesn’t just affect the 𝌆 character, but more important symbols like U+01F4A9 PILE OF POO | 21:55 |
| bknudson_ | (💩) | 21:55 |
| bknudson_ | For a BMP character, utf8 and utf8mb4 have identical storage characteristics: same code values, same encoding, same length. | 21:57 |
| breton | lol | 21:58 |
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| elmiko | bknudson_: lol! | 22:07 |
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