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| dhellmann | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 9 16:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| ihrachyshka | o/ | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
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| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 16:00 |
| bnemec | o/ | 16:00 |
| sileht | o/ | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for jd__, dims, bnemec, flaper87, harlowja, viktors, rpodolyaka1, zzzeek, sileht, kgiusti | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for redrobot, jungleboyj, zhiyan, therve, amotoki, GheRivero, bknudson, ihrachyshka, jogo, dougwig, sreshetnyak, amrith | 16:00 |
| jecarey | o/ | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for rpodolyaka | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | \o | 16:00 |
| bknudson | lol | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:00 |
| * dhellmann can't keep up with everyone's alternate nicks | 16:01 | |
| ozamiatin | o/ | 16:01 |
| amotoki | o/ | 16:01 |
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| redrobot | o/ | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | nice turnout today! | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | let's get started... | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #topic Review action items from previous meeting | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #info rpodolyaka & viktors to start a mailing list thread discussing mysql driver change | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/thread.html#55469 | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | zzzeek actually started that thread, but the action is still done :-) | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | it looks like we had plenty of support for testing the new lib | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka: how is that going? | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | I'll find out from him later | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann write down spec approval policy in the specs repository | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | that's up for review | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/150119 | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | #action dhellmann document policy assumptions for library adoption among applications, including milestones and support for incubator code after graduation - DONE | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | also up for review | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/153682 | 16:05 |
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| dhellmann | #info bnemec write policy spec on feature freezes | 16:05 |
| bnemec | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153642/ | 16:05 |
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| dhellmann | nice | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | ok, that's all of our old business | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | #topic Policy Reviews | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Policy Reviews (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:06 | |
| dhellmann | I would like to finish the reviews for existing policies this week. | 16:06 |
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| dhellmann | there are a couple that are new ideas, like the oslo.config thing, but most of them are just updating what we had in the wiki | 16:06 |
| bknudson | this is confusing since there's also oslo.policy. | 16:06 |
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| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/oslo-specs+branch:master+topic:policy,n,z | 16:07 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 16:07 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: yeah, we now have 3 uses of that term (team rules, ACLs, and something out of neutron for network access rules) | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | one more, and our next use is free | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | more policies! :-P | 16:08 |
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| ihrachyshka | :D | 16:08 |
| ihrachyshka | neutron is not involved (almost) | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann will approve the policy documents in the specs repo by the end of the week unless there are objections registered in gerrit | 16:09 |
| ihrachyshka | it's a side project | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: ah, my mistake | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | neutron ~= anything having to do with networking | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | are there any questions or comments on the policy specs? | 16:09 |
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| bknudson | will be interesting to see how documenting policy works here since might be good for other projects to do it too. | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: yeah, I thought maybe we'd start another trend :-) | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | some projects do already have this sort of thing in their developer docs, but since we have a bunch of repositories the specs repo seemed like a more natural place | 16:11 |
| ihrachyshka | +1 for other projects doing the same thing. wiki is obsolete. | 16:11 |
| bnemec | Yeah, I've made some policy edits to the wiki that it would have been nice to review. | 16:11 |
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| ihrachyshka | neutron has devref section for dev docs | 16:11 |
| bnemec | But there's not really a way to do that there. | 16:11 |
| * dhellmann nods | 16:11 | |
| ihrachyshka | but it's like 5% of what we have | 16:11 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I feel like we do a bit more explaining "why" we do things than other projects do, so we may have more of these | 16:12 |
| amotoki | oslo consists of many libs, so it sounds reasonable we have docs in specs. | 16:12 |
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| dhellmann | ok, another planning-related topic came up late last week | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | #topic summit planning | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit planning (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:13 | |
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| dhellmann | yes, we need to start thinking about this already | 16:13 |
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| dhellmann | It's early, but we need to start planning for the amount of space we'll need at the summit. | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | The summit organization will be a little different this time: | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054122.html | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | There will be "fishbowl" rooms with large numbers of chairs for discussions, "boardroom" style rooms for priortization and doing work, and sprinting space on Friday. | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | We need to decide on the mix of room sizes and purposes. | 16:14 |
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| dhellmann | Oslo didn't do any sprinting in Paris, because everyone was involved in the work going on for other projects on that day. | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | Since a lot of what we do affects other groups, I suspect we will want more fishbowl rooms. | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | But I'm sure some of the teams like oslo.db and oslo.messaging could take advantage of the boardoom style rooms for planning as well. | 16:14 |
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| dhellmann | ttx didn't give a deadline for reporting back, but we should work quickly | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | I wanted to mention it here, and get some initial thoughts from you all, but we'll probably need to move to the mailing list. | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann start a mailing list thread for summit room planning | 16:15 |
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| dhellmann | the first question, I guess is, would sprinting time be valuable? would anyone be there? | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | actually, that's the second question. The first question, is who is planning to be in Vancouver? :-) | 16:16 |
| harlowja_at_home | afaik me :-P | 16:16 |
| bnemec | Planning to, but don't know for sure yet. | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: me, me! | 16:17 |
| ihrachyshka | I guess me, but that's not decided yet | 16:17 |
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| bknudson | I'm planning to be there. | 16:17 |
| * jungleboyj will try to make more Oslo sessions this time. | 16:17 | |
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| zzzeek | o/ | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | knowing how many and what types of rooms also pre-supposes that we know what we're going to be doing during the next cycle | 16:18 |
| ihrachyshka | zzzeek, will you be on summit? | 16:18 |
| zzzeek | ihrachyshka: most likely | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | so you should all be thinking about that, too :-) | 16:18 |
| ihrachyshka | coool | 16:18 |
| harlowja_at_home | are we gonna be in the basement again? lol | 16:18 |
| bknudson | I think we're upstairs | 16:18 |
| harlowja_at_home | woot | 16:18 |
| bknudson | there's a map of the venue ... | 16:19 |
| * harlowja_at_home was sad that they put us in the basement without our red staplers | 16:19 | |
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| * ihrachyshka notes that he is especially interested in getting some understanding of what oslo.versionedobjects is about and how it relates to neutron, so I would be glad to have some quick coding/code reading session with someone behind it | 16:19 | |
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| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: the lead for that is dansmith | 16:19 |
| bnemec | Ooh, yeah. We should rope dan into a session this summit. | 16:19 |
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| dhellmann | bnemec: can you use your special red hatter influence to do that? :-) | 16:20 |
| bknudson | https://www.openstack.org/summit/vancouver-2015/venue-maps-2/ | 16:20 |
| bnemec | Heh, I can try. | 16:20 |
| * dansmith notes to be extra difficult to make it worth bnemec's time | 16:20 | |
| bknudson | design summit is on level 2 | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | dansmith: but think of all the new reviewers you'll attract! :-) | 16:21 |
| dansmith | heh | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: cool, thanks | 16:21 |
| bnemec | That would probably be a fishbowl session, IMO | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | I've been waiting until we have an official name for the next cycle to create an etherpad for planning, but I'll send email to the dev list as soon as that's up. | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | And then we'll do what we did last time, and put ideas in the etherpad and see where we have overlap and what style of sessions we need | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: ++ | 16:22 |
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| dhellmann | moving on... | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:23 | |
| bknudson | nothing from keystone... things seem to be going smoothly. | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | we have several releases queued up for this week, so be on the lookout | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | I need to verify that those libs are capped in the juno requirements list before releasing | 16:23 |
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| dhellmann | I have oslo.db, oslo.utils, oslo.messaging and oslotest down for releases | 16:24 |
| ihrachyshka | neutron adopted new oslo_* namespaces. | 16:24 |
| ihrachyshka | we would like to see oslo.policy released earlier | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | \o/ | 16:24 |
| ihrachyshka | so that we have time to consider it | 16:24 |
| bnemec | Nothing that I know of for tripleo. Probably need to look into whether all of our stuff is switched off namespaces. | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | it's not ready for use yet, but it should be coming soon | 16:24 |
| bnemec | Which it's probably not. | 16:24 |
| bknudson | on that note (about capping in stable/), this change in oslo.i18n seems to be in an odd place: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147262/ | 16:25 |
| ihrachyshka | (we wanted to check since it's a bunch of security related code and we don't want to maintain it if we have an option to get rid of it) | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | Not issues from Cinder. Just need to wrap up the updates for namespace and getting latest incubator code over. | 16:25 |
| ihrachyshka | bknudson, re this error, it's known to stable maintainers | 16:25 |
| ihrachyshka | and we're working on it | 16:25 |
| bknudson | ihrachyshka: ok, thanks. | 16:26 |
| ihrachyshka | but it's currently a mess and requires multiple patches to merge to cap misc version | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: yes, that is odd, good catch | 16:26 |
| ihrachyshka | details in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stable-tracker if you care | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: we should move the fixture before releasing it | 16:26 |
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| dhellmann | oh, that's not merged, we can fix it before we land it | 16:27 |
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| dhellmann | dimsum__: want to remove your +2a on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147262/ ? | 16:28 |
| * dhellmann is confused | 16:29 | |
| bknudson | my only issue with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147262/ is that it's not passing jenkins. | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: when you say "an odd place" what do you mean? I thought you were talking about the filename? | 16:29 |
| * dhellmann needs more tea | 16:29 | |
| dimsum__ | dhellmann: done | 16:29 |
| bnemec | In oslo.concurrency we put the fixture in its own directory: https://github.com/openstack/oslo.concurrency/blob/master/oslo_concurrency/fixture/lockutils.py | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: so is there a patch to fix the issue with that test somewhere? | 16:30 |
| bknudson | and I didn't know what the jenkins problem was, but apparently it's known | 16:30 |
| ihrachyshka | dhellmann, not really, oslo.config issue is not resolved yet | 16:30 |
| ihrachyshka | I'll check with apevec on whether there are updates | 16:30 |
| ihrachyshka | atm juno is kinda broken | 16:30 |
| ihrachyshka | that's what it is :) | 16:30 |
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| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: I thought we landed a patch to cap pycadf | 16:30 |
| dhellmann | https://review.openstack.org/151770 | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | something there failed jenkins | 16:31 |
| ihrachyshka | yeah, it all goes to oslo.config issue | 16:31 |
| ihrachyshka | getting: pkg_resources.ContextualVersionConflict: (oslo.config 1.4.0 (/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages), Requirement.parse('oslo.config>=1.6.0'), set(['tempest-lib'])) | 16:32 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: so we need to cap oslo.config, too? | 16:32 |
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| dhellmann | oh, tempest-lib | 16:32 |
| dhellmann | wow | 16:32 |
| ihrachyshka | I think it's capped, but tempest-lib requires new one | 16:32 |
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| ihrachyshka | I'll update you via email | 16:32 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: yeah, please, on the -dev list so we can sort it out | 16:32 |
| bknudson | tempest-lib should get their own tox env. | 16:32 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: probably true | 16:33 |
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| ihrachyshka | dhellmann, ack | 16:33 |
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| ihrachyshka | bknudson, there is a patch for that somewhere (or was it just for tempest?) | 16:34 |
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| * dhellmann misses using alpha versions | 16:34 | |
| ihrachyshka | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153702/ | 16:34 |
| ihrachyshka | yeah, so I guess we need to start unwrapping it from tempest-lib | 16:34 |
| bknudson | nice, thanks. | 16:35 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: thanks, I'll see what I can do to help | 16:35 |
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| bknudson | at this point it appears that master oslo.i18n is blocked... | 16:35 |
| bknudson | not sure if every oslo.* is blocked? | 16:35 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, and I wonder if we should hold off on those releases to make sure we don't make things worse until we can unblock the stable requirements list and cap all of our libs | 16:36 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: it looks like jogo is working on this, is there a team working together? | 16:36 |
| ihrachyshka | dhellmann, no idea who is jogo | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: joe gordon | 16:37 |
| ihrachyshka | not that I aware of any work done in this area other than apevec looking into it | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | I'll catch up with him later today, I don't see him in channel | 16:38 |
| ihrachyshka | thanks | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | ok | 16:38 |
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| * ihrachyshka feels guilty for not having time today to resolve it myself | 16:38 | |
| dhellmann | one more topic on our agenda... | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | #topic Ongoing work & Review priorities | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work & Review priorities (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:39 | |
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| dhellmann | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/next-kilo | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/kilo-3 | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | Aside from the stable/juno issues, is anyone blocked on work we prioritized for this release because of reviews? | 16:39 |
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| bnemec | I would still like to get https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148020/ in ASAP. | 16:40 |
| ozamiatin | dhellmann, hi | 16:40 |
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| bnemec | I assume there's going to be another round of culling deprecated opts next cycle, so the sooner we're notifying people about them the better. | 16:40 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: yep | 16:40 |
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| ozamiatin | dhellmann, please take a look at some of my specs on zmq driver https://review.openstack.org/154094, https://review.openstack.org/150735, https://review.openstack.org/151185 | 16:41 |
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| dhellmann | ozamiatin: sure. We'll need to get sileht's feedback on those, too. | 16:42 |
| ozamiatin | dhellmann, sure, thanks! | 16:42 |
| ozamiatin | dhellman, We still have this bug on devstack https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo.messaging/+bug/1395721, I'm trying to fix it | 16:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1395721 in oslo.messaging "Devstack nova-compute fails with ZeroMQ" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Oleksii Zamiatin (ozamiatin) | 16:43 |
| ozamiatin | dhellmann, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154094/ - this is my vision how to do that more elegant) | 16:43 |
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| sileht | ozamiatin, I have setuped into a experimental job with zeromq functionnal tests | 16:44 |
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| sileht | (with redis) | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | ozamiatin: you will also want to get some of the other zmq contributors to review those specs | 16:44 |
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| ozamiatin | sileht, redis is ok, but it is timeout with nova | 16:45 |
| ozamiatin | sileht, I've mentioned in the comments | 16:45 |
| ihrachyshka | btw I've reported a bug in redis driver that also failed in stable gate. https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo.messaging/+bug/1419718 | 16:46 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1419718 in oslo.messaging "matchmaker_redis: ack_alive fails with KeyError on re-registration attempt" [Undecided,New] | 16:46 |
| ihrachyshka | you may be interested to check | 16:46 |
| ozamiatin | ihrachyshka, thanks! I'll check it | 16:46 |
| sileht | ozamiatin, ihrachyshka, making the funcionnal tests suite passing gate should help a lot the zeromq driver developement | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | #topic open discussion | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:47 | |
| dhellmann | does anyone have anything else to bring up this week? | 16:47 |
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| ihrachyshka | https://review.openstack.org/153216 | 16:48 |
| ihrachyshka | I'd like to hear more from reviewers | 16:48 |
| ihrachyshka | there is disagreement on which guarantees oslo libs should provide for imports | 16:49 |
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| ihrachyshka | bnemec already commented on it, but I'd like to see more votes | 16:49 |
| bnemec | Oh, my issue there is that supporting this behavior allows projects to use racy eventlet monkey patching. | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: is your change backwards compatible? | 16:49 |
| * dhellmann hasn't read it all yet | 16:50 | |
| sileht | bnemec, I agree | 16:50 |
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| dhellmann | ugh, eventlet | 16:50 |
| ihrachyshka | bnemec, shouldn't we allow oslo libs to be imported before neutron stuff? (we even have hacking checks for that) | 16:50 |
| sileht | bnemec, in oslo.messaging with just print an error message to inform developer about the racy monkey patching | 16:50 |
| bnemec | I talked to otherwiseguy about how to make the monkey patching safe on Friday. | 16:50 |
| sileht | with/we | 16:50 |
| ihrachyshka | bnemec, we work on this in neutron, but I also think it's worth fixing in the lib too | 16:51 |
| * dhellmann wishes we could just switch to threads and be done with monkeypatching | 16:51 | |
| sileht | ihrachyshka, monkeypatch must be done before loading anything, this is the recommandation | 16:51 |
| * bnemec agrees | 16:51 | |
| bnemec | If you run code, monkey patch, then run other code, you're in undefined behavior territory. | 16:51 |
| harlowja_at_home | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149730/ might be useful for folk also | 16:51 |
| ihrachyshka | sileht, so we need to make all external consumers of neutron and oslo code to explicitly monkey patch | 16:51 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, i agree, the madness this causes is a PITA | 16:52 |
| ihrachyshka | sileht, because relying on neutron/__init__.py to patch it is not enough (it's imported after oslo) | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: I think you're right. We expect the calling application to be doing the monkeypatching. | 16:53 |
| otherwiseguy | I personally don't see the harm in having the library handle it. Robustness is always preferable if it doesn't have an associated cost. The cost in this case is kind of etherical slippery-slope kinds of things. | 16:53 |
| bnemec | I also suggested that we should have an "eventlet sanity" cross-project spec that rolls up the best practices we've come up with so far. | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: no, the main program script may have to do it, or you may have to change the import order | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: good idea | 16:53 |
| harlowja_at_home | bnemec, +1 | 16:53 |
| sileht | bnemec, +1 | 16:53 |
| bknudson | harlowja_at_home: where is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149730/ supposed to be used? in keystone for example? | 16:54 |
| ihrachyshka | dhellmann, import order is sometimes controlled by hacking, so - explicit onlyt | 16:54 |
| amotoki | bnemec: +1 | 16:54 |
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| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: we may have to change the hacking rules then | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | those style rules are to make code readable, but if it makes readable broken code what's the point? | 16:54 |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, in libraries, when the library is imported, to at least give the user a warning that if certain things aren't patched the library may be all wonky... | 16:54 |
| bknudson | there's no good way to use eventlet. | 16:54 |
| ihrachyshka | + for policy spec, that would help (neutron is one of projects who would benefit from it, since atm we monkey patch ourselves like monkeys without clear understanding of why it's done this way) | 16:55 |
| bknudson | harlowja_at_home: ok, thanks... so not in keystone. | 16:55 |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, i think so | 16:55 |
| sileht | harlowja_at_home, bknudson oslo.messaging can consume this, It always have sanity check around monkeypatch stuffs | 16:56 |
| sileht | always/already | 16:57 |
| harlowja_at_home | ya, a 'eventlet sanity' (combination of words there might not be sane) spec would help also | 16:57 |
| bknudson | keystone can run in eventlet or non-eventlet, and uses oslo.messaging. | 16:58 |
| * bnemec proposes an oslo.sanity library | 16:58 | |
| ihrachyshka | neutron won't consume it, ever! | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: does eventlet not patch subprocess by default, or does it not patch it at all? | 16:58 |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, what executor of oslo.messaging are u using in the non-eventlet case? | 16:58 |
| bnemec | dhellmann: It doesn't patch subprocess at all, IIRC. | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | k | 16:59 |
| ihrachyshka | dhellmann, I think it's 'threading' that is patched | 16:59 |
| bnemec | It's not even an option for monkey_patch | 16:59 |
| bknudson | harlowja_at_home: this isn't something I've ever looked into .... | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | we're about out of time | 16:59 |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, k | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: I'd be interested in hearing about how you set up keystone without eventlet, too | 16:59 |
| * dhellmann hopes for a blog post | 16:59 | |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | ok, good meeting again this week, everyone | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | thanks! | 17:00 |
| sileht | harlowja_at_home, eventlet executor work even without monkeypatching, greenthread blocks when IO occurs that all | 17:00 |
| sileht | dhellmann, nova/cinder-api works well too | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | ah | 17:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | sileht, except i can cause that to freeze up pretty easily, just use a thread lock somewhere in an eventlet thread and poof | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | sileht: it would be interesting to set up a POC with the threaded executor | 17:00 |
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| dhellmann | we need to clear the meeting room | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | let's move to #openstack-oslo | 17:01 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 9 17:01:04 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-02-09-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-02-09-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-02-09-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
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| davidlenwell | #startmeeting refstack | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 9 19:00:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is davidlenwell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:00 |
| catherineD2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 19:01 |
| markvoelker | o/ | 19:01 |
| vladiskuz | o/ | 19:01 |
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| zehicle_ | o/ | 19:01 |
| davidlenwell | Good day everyone! | 19:01 |
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| sslypushenko__ | o/ | 19:01 |
| pvaneck | o/ | 19:02 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. lets get started.. | 19:02 |
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| clee | o/ | 19:03 |
| davidlenwell | agenda: uuid, oslo api changes, beta onboarding, ui face to face, talk submission | 19:03 |
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| davidlenwell | #topic uuid | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "uuid (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:04 | |
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| davidlenwell | as most of you should know .. this spec.. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144329/ has landed.. | 19:05 |
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| davidlenwell | I'd like us to start work on this right away.. | 19:05 |
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| hogepodge | I've started on the hacking rule. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154127/ | 19:06 |
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| davidlenwell | awesome! | 19:06 |
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| sslypushenko__ | cool | 19:07 |
| catherineD2 | davidlenwell: we also need to consider the case where tests include parameters | 19:07 |
| sslypushenko__ | I can update my script with landed spec | 19:07 |
| catherineD2 | pvaneck: can give example ... | 19:07 |
| hogepodge | It may not be able to land until uuids are already in place, but it's not terribly difficult code. Already have some good feedback from Matt. We're going to need to document that the decorators have to appear in a specific order, otherwise it becomes a testing nightmare | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | understood | 19:08 |
| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: please do | 19:08 |
| sslypushenko__ | davidlenwell What is more importand thing autoupdate script or uuid ? | 19:08 |
| catherineD2 | sslypushenko__: does your script cover the test name with parameter cases? | 19:08 |
| davidlenwell | uuid | 19:08 |
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| davidlenwell | I can work on the autoupdate script while you work on uuid | 19:09 |
| sslypushenko__ | catherineD2 Can you give an example, pls? | 19:09 |
| sslypushenko__ | davidlenwell greate! | 19:09 |
| catherineD2 | sslypushenko__: pvaneck: is getting the examples ... | 19:10 |
| davidlenwell | okay.. lets move on to the next topic and circle back.. | 19:11 |
| davidlenwell | #topic oslo api changes | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "oslo api changes (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:11 | |
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| catherineD2 | davidlenwell: can we wait one sec for the example | 19:11 |
| sslypushenko__ | sure | 19:11 |
| davidlenwell | we'll wait | 19:11 |
| catherineD2 | it is important ... if UUID do not take care of these cases ... then we weill ahve duplicate UUID | 19:11 |
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| sslypushenko__ | catherineD2 we can't manage this issue on the first interation | 19:13 |
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| catherineD2 | sslypushenko__: then we will have duplicate uuid | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | I'd like to see the examples of this | 19:13 |
| sslypushenko__ | I know, I wrote about it in spec) | 19:13 |
| pvaneck | yea, going to have to give me a bit. y virtualenv is having issues | 19:13 |
| pvaneck | i dont have a full test listing on hand | 19:14 |
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| davidlenwell | lets come back to it at the end | 19:14 |
| davidlenwell | we have a lot more to cover | 19:14 |
| davidlenwell | oslo api changes | 19:14 |
| catherineD2 | davidlenwell: agree let discuss later | 19:14 |
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| davidlenwell | catherineD2 raised some concerns in the review that we just merged.. I'dl like youguys to discuss it | 19:15 |
| catherineD2 | sslypushenko_vladiskuz: I do not see where to update the env DB authetication info ... | 19:16 |
| vladiskuz | sql_connection is depricated now, but we can use 'connection' option in database section | 19:16 |
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| vladiskuz | it's the same thing | 19:17 |
| sslypushenko__ | I think it is just a renaming... | 19:17 |
| catherineD2 | vladiskuz: then we should update the readme ... | 19:17 |
| pvaneck | tempest scenario test examples btw: http://pastebin.com/drxr0rBz | 19:17 |
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| sslypushenko__ | catherineD2 Thx that you notice deprication message) | 19:18 |
| catherineD2 | sslypushenko__: I will test the installation and update the readme | 19:18 |
| vladiskuz | catherineD2: It's already updated | 19:19 |
| sslypushenko__ | Thx for your testing work! | 19:19 |
| vladiskuz | catherineD2: 'Note value of connection in database section should be corrected.' in refstack.md | 19:19 |
| catherineD2 | ok | 19:20 |
| sslypushenko__ | I guess we can solve this issue in review process. Lets return to uuids | 19:20 |
| davidlenwell | okay | 19:20 |
| catherineD2 | ok | 19:20 |
| davidlenwell | #topic uuid's | 19:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "uuid's (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:20 | |
| sslypushenko__ | I invetigate how this tests generates | 19:21 |
| sslypushenko__ | We can add uuid in generation spec | 19:21 |
| sslypushenko__ | as a required value | 19:22 |
| sslypushenko__ | But any way we should add uuids to all other tests, firstly. Then we can resolve issue with these tests | 19:23 |
| davidlenwell | I agree sslypushenko__ | 19:24 |
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| sslypushenko__ | It is good that there are no a lot of them) | 19:24 |
| davidlenwell | okay . lets move on | 19:25 |
| davidlenwell | #topic beta onboarding | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "beta onboarding (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:25 | |
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| davidlenwell | I'm still waiting to hear back from piston about their attempts to use the client.. I have an email into steve. | 19:26 |
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| davidlenwell | this week I am working on standing up a bluebox cluster to run the client against.. | 19:27 |
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| davidlenwell | hogepodge: Can we reach out to a few more from your list? | 19:29 |
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| hogepodge | I don't see why not. | 19:29 |
| hogepodge | Early results are showing that anyone using neutron is going to fail many tests, including defore core tests. | 19:29 |
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| * clee can vouch for that | 19:31 | |
| davidlenwell | and this is from a short comming in those tests? | 19:32 |
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| hogepodge | CatherineD2 has documented this failure. | 19:33 |
| clee | I haven't had a chance to investigate deeply, but simple things like "assign a floating IP" fail completely | 19:33 |
| clee | even though that feature works properly in our clusters via neutron. | 19:33 |
| hogepodge | There was an abandoned patch to address it, which she's been looking at bringing back. | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | ahh yes .. | 19:33 |
| hogepodge | There's also a spec to address it and tempest accounts in general. | 19:33 |
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| catherineD2 | clee:how about trying to assing floating IP manual? | 19:33 |
| catherineD2 | does that work? | 19:33 |
| clee | catherineD2: like I said, that works fine | 19:33 |
| clee | as long as you use the neutron client, and not the nova CLI | 19:33 |
| hogepodge | It's my understanding that when this lands it will fix a number of problems. http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/qa-specs/specs/test-accounts-continued.html | 19:34 |
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| clee | (also works in Horizon) | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | makes sense | 19:34 |
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| davidlenwell | the test must be using the nova cli and isn't smart enough to pick up that it should use the neutron client | 19:35 |
| hogepodge | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/qa-specs/specs/test-accounts-continued.html | 19:35 |
| catherineD2 | hogepodge: I have asked Simeon in IBM to pick up that patch | 19:35 |
| hogepodge | catherineD2 Fantastic. Thank you. | 19:36 |
| catherineD2 | It is a big job ... | 19:36 |
| hogepodge | Can you loop him in with me on it too? | 19:36 |
| hogepodge | yes :-/ | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. I think this is going to require a lot more discussion and followthrough .. | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | lets make it a topic for our face to face | 19:37 |
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| davidlenwell | which is our next topic | 19:37 |
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| davidlenwell | #topic f2f | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "f2f (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:39 | |
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| davidlenwell | I've made an etherpad.. that remains empty | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack_f2f_feb_2015 | 19:39 |
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| davidlenwell | we need to nail down a date and then decide on a location | 19:39 |
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| catherineD2 | davidlenwell: what are the perspective dates and location? still in Silicon Valley? | 19:41 |
| davidlenwell | catherineD2: yes .. | 19:42 |
| davidlenwell | I can travel south again | 19:42 |
| davidlenwell | how about next wednesday? | 19:43 |
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| davidlenwell | the 18th? | 19:43 |
| catherineD2 | 18th works for me ... | 19:45 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. lets work on a location | 19:45 |
| catherineD2 | who else will attend? | 19:46 |
| hogepodge | I'm on travel so will not make it. | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | okay | 19:47 |
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| davidlenwell | we'll make sure we plan some phone calls to include the larger group | 19:47 |
| sslypushenko__ | What time? | 19:48 |
| davidlenwell | this should be sort of a high level discussion anyways.. since we'll be planning the next few months of development.. | 19:48 |
| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: we'll probably do an all day kind of thing.. starting at 11 am.. earlier than that is much harder to get through traffic. | 19:48 |
| catherineD2 | davidlenwell: Is that 18th or 15th? the etherpad shows 18th .. | 19:49 |
| davidlenwell | 18th.. the 15th is a sunday | 19:49 |
| davidlenwell | sorry .. that was my typio | 19:49 |
| sslypushenko__ | 11am work for me. I can attend for 2-3 hours | 19:50 |
| davidlenwell | awesome! | 19:51 |
| catherineD2 | sslypushenko__: that is great | 19:51 |
| davidlenwell | I'll bring my webcam | 19:51 |
| vladiskuz | probably I will attend too | 19:52 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. finally topic talk submission | 19:52 |
| davidlenwell | #topic talk submission | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "talk submission (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:53 | |
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| davidlenwell | hogepodge: and catherineD2 there was discussion about you two doing a talk together.. did you make that submission? | 19:54 |
| hogepodge | Yes | 19:54 |
| davidlenwell | what is the title? | 19:54 |
| Rockyg | Sorry. Calendar reminder fail. | 19:54 |
| hogepodge | Testing Your Cloud: How to Configure your Cloud and Tempest | 19:55 |
| catherineD2 | Should we mention Defcore/Refstack in the titile? | 19:56 |
| hogepodge | I'm also on a Defcore panel discussion. The DefCore Show: "is it core or not" feud episode | 19:56 |
| catherineD2 | Like "How to Configure your Cloud and Tempest for Refstack test" | 19:56 |
| davidlenwell | sounds like a fun panel | 19:57 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. we're out of time here.. as always please feel free to continue the conversation in #refstack.. and ping me for attention of reviews. | 19:58 |
| hogepodge | right now the submission focuses on configuring tempest, and refernences introp generally without regard to defcore or refstack | 19:58 |
| davidlenwell | I think thats better.. its a broader topic .. | 19:58 |
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| davidlenwell | for use with the refstack client can be metioned.. | 19:59 |
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| davidlenwell | lets end.. next meeting starts now | 20:00 |
| davidlenwell | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 9 20:00:07 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-02-09-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-02-09-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-02-09-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 9 20:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
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| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| jaosorior | o/ | 20:00 |
| hockeynut | o/ | 20:00 |
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| tsv | o/ | 20:00 |
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| woodster_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:01 |
| elmiko | yo/ | 20:01 |
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| rellerreller | o/ | 20:02 |
| redrobot | a little light on barbicaneers today... but that's no problem! :) | 20:02 |
| redrobot | as usual the agenda can be found here: | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:02 |
| jvrbanac | o/ | 20:02 |
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| arunkant | o/ | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | Ok, let's get this started | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #topic Kilo-2 | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo-2 (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:02 | |
| redrobot | #link https://launchpad.net/barbican/kilo/kilo-2 | 20:03 |
| redrobot | In case you missed it, Kilo Milestone 2 was released last week | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | many thanks to jaosorior for all the hard work | 20:03 |
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| hockeynut | + oo | 20:03 |
| redrobot | and everyone else too! | 20:03 |
| jaosorior | :D | 20:03 |
| alee | o/ | 20:03 |
| redrobot | not trying to leave anyone out :) | 20:04 |
| woodster_ | jaosorior: thanks! | 20:04 |
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| redrobot | and just so that you guys can put this in your calendar | 20:04 |
| redrobot | Kilo-3 is due March 19 | 20:04 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:05 |
| redrobot | And as you may know Kilo-3 will be the Feature Freeze date for the Kilo cycle | 20:05 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 20:05 |
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| redrobot | ok, moving on... | 20:05 |
| chellygel | super late o/ | 20:05 |
| redrobot | #topic Swift + Castellan | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift + Castellan (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:05 | |
| redrobot | I'm not sure who proposed this topic? | 20:05 |
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| redrobot | Bueller? | 20:06 |
| tsv | i believe this is carry forward from last time, woodster ? | 20:06 |
| redrobot | actual text was "Update on Swift integration with KeyManager, if/when moving to Castellan" | 20:06 |
| rellerreller | Whatever happened to that? At the summit everything seemed unresolved. | 20:07 |
| rm_work | oh, per last time I think there was some argument about whether Castellan was even ... necessary? or something? | 20:07 |
| rm_work | (I still think yes) | 20:07 |
| tsv | redrobot, last week i asked if we know when swift will be using barbican and if they are using castellan | 20:07 |
| woodster_ | reaperhulk, did you add that one? I'm curious about it, so maybe I did, but can't recall :) | 20:07 |
| tsv | woodster said he will check with swift and let us know | 20:07 |
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| tsv | woodster, is that correct ? | 20:08 |
| woodster_ | #action reaperhulk was the closest to that integration effort, I'll follow up with him | 20:08 |
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| woodster_ | he's around the office today, but probably catching up after a week off | 20:08 |
| redrobot | Ok, we can table this until next week | 20:09 |
| redrobot | moving on | 20:10 |
| redrobot | #topic Barbican packaging | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barbican packaging (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:10 | |
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| redrobot | Just wanted to give a heads up that xaeth is currently working on getting Barbican into Fedora | 20:10 |
| redrobot | you may have seen him in the channel asking questions | 20:10 |
| redrobot | also not sure who added this to agenda... is there anything else that needed to be talked about on this topic? | 20:11 |
| alee | redrobot, not sure but I will be working with him to do the fedora reviews | 20:12 |
| alee | so they should go pretty quickly | 20:13 |
| redrobot | alee awesome! | 20:13 |
| alee | and then we start the steps to get it into RHOS | 20:13 |
| redrobot | hopefully we'll be able to release Kilo final straight to the Fedora repos | 20:13 |
| redrobot | alee RHOS != RDO ? | 20:14 |
| alee | yup | 20:14 |
| alee | yeah same same | 20:14 |
| redrobot | cool | 20:14 |
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| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:14 |
| redrobot | #topic L-Summit | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "L-Summit (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:14 | |
| redrobot | First, a reminder that today is the last day to propose talks for the Vancouver summit | 20:15 |
| * redrobot remembers he's still got to submit his | 20:15 | |
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| redrobot | Second, we were asked about space accommodations for Barbican | 20:16 |
| redrobot | apparently the summit will be a little different this time | 20:16 |
| redrobot | and there won't be "pods" anymore | 20:16 |
| elmiko | boo =( | 20:16 |
| jaosorior | so... what will replace pods? | 20:16 |
| redrobot | I was thinking that we would probably be ok with a room that can fit 10-15 in lieu of the pods | 20:16 |
| redrobot | they're being replaced with "fishbowls" | 20:17 |
| redrobot | which I _think_ means your own space, but I'm not 100% on that. | 20:17 |
| elmiko | interesting | 20:17 |
| woodster_ | that is odd...is a fishbowl a first come first served set of tables, like Paris? :) | 20:17 |
| redrobot | woodster_ lol, I hope not | 20:17 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to clarify what "fishbowl" space will be | 20:18 |
| woodster_ | but 'pods' aren't to be confused with 'fishbowls' then | 20:18 |
| woodster_ | Just noting that there is an etherpad to start collecting design/table session topics here: | 20:18 |
| woodster_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-L-design-sessions | 20:18 |
| redrobot | I'll try to have a better answer for you guys next week... I mainly wanted to know if y'all think 10-15 peeps would be about accurate for what-used-to-be-pods | 20:18 |
| woodster_ | that sounds good to me | 20:19 |
| rellerreller | I think that sounds about right | 20:19 |
| redrobot | ok, awesome... | 20:20 |
| redrobot | man we're tearing through the agenda this week. | 20:20 |
| redrobot | #topic Mid-Cycle Meetup | 20:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-Cycle Meetup (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:20 | |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/BarbicanKiloSprint | 20:20 |
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| redrobot | the Mid-Cycle meetup is next week | 20:21 |
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| redrobot | we have an etherpad for keeping track of topics we want to discuss | 20:21 |
| redrobot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-kilo-sprint | 20:21 |
| SheenaG1 | Related (kind of): would anyone be interested in an outing to a giant pinball arcade in Austin during the visit? I think we should have enough folks with cars that we can swing it, as it's not downtown | 20:22 |
| woodster_ | already?!? coming up quick...just need to land that quote bp before then if possible to stay on track :) | 20:22 |
| redrobot | it would be awesome if we can get some more ideas on the etherpad before next week so that we can start thinking about an agenda for the mid-cycle | 20:22 |
| redrobot | woodster_ +1 ... it would be awesome if we can get all Essential and High priority BPs landed before the mid-cycle | 20:23 |
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| redrobot | but if we don't we can definitely make BP reviews the first agenda item we tackle next week. | 20:23 |
| woodster_ | ...and then figure out what we can do for the final Kilo release :) | 20:23 |
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| redrobot | woodster_ indeed... one of the goals for the mid-cycle is to have a good idea of what we can land for Kilo-3 | 20:24 |
| redrobot | SheenaG1 I would definitely love to get some pinball action in | 20:25 |
| redrobot | which brings up a good point: we can also add afterhours stuff to the etherpad :) I hear Austin is a fun place, and we have quite a few barbicaneer natives there. | 20:26 |
| SheenaG1 | I'm a native now! If you guys have ideas, put 'em up and I can find good places to go. | 20:26 |
| hockeynut | we can all come up with some good ideas (6th St, cough, cough) | 20:27 |
| redrobot | yup... Omni hotel happens to be within crawling distance of 6th St | 20:27 |
| hockeynut | perfect. | 20:28 |
| jaosorior | anybody gonna be there on the 15th? That's when I arrive | 20:28 |
| redrobot | jaosorior I won't be there until Monday morning... but jvrbanac, reaperhulk, SheenaG1 all live out there | 20:29 |
| SheenaG1 | and hockeynut and tdink_ | 20:29 |
| alee | jaosorior, I arrive on the 14th. Will be staying with some friends north of Austin till Mon morning. | 20:29 |
| woodster_ | sounds like hockeynut will be waiting for you on 6th... | 20:29 |
| hockeynut | Chuys | 20:29 |
| jaosorior | well, to the people there, I'll ping you soon to meet up for pints then :D | 20:30 |
| hockeynut | jaosorior looking forward to it! | 20:30 |
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| redrobot | any other comments about the mid-cycle? | 20:30 |
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| redrobot | Ok, moving on... | 20:32 |
| redrobot | #topic Action Items | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:32 | |
| redrobot | so one of the things I want to get better at, is reviewing action items from the previous meeting | 20:33 |
| redrobot | I'm going to try to review action items after the roll call at the beginning of the meeting | 20:33 |
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| * redrobot realizes he forgot to do that this meeting | 20:33 | |
| redrobot | so, for last week woodster_ had an action to look into alembic juno -> kilo migration | 20:34 |
| redrobot | woodster_ I saw your email to the ML asking about Grenade + Tempest | 20:34 |
| redrobot | woodster_ any other updates on that front? | 20:34 |
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| redrobot | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056346.html | 20:35 |
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| woodster_ | I'm still digging into that one. It appears you can branch with the latest alembic version, and I believe Ceilometer is doing that now. I've been more focused on the grenade issue, but I'll keep digging into the alembic migration across releases | 20:35 |
| redrobot | #action woodster_ to continue researching alembic support for Juno -> Kilo migration | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | so essentially each release you make a branch for that release. You also make a alembic version that catches you up to the previous release. | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | yep, will fine tune that understanding | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | BTW, regarding Swift/Barbican interaction: SheenaG1 pointed out that a Swift encryption CR landed already (I don’t think rellerreller’s Castellan comment made it in though): | 20:36 |
| redrobot | woodster_ thanks | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123220 | 20:37 |
| woodster_ | (I think that was the remaining action item) | 20:37 |
| redrobot | woodster_ interesting... thanks for the link. Definitely need to keep an eye out on the implementation. | 20:38 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on... | 20:38 |
| redrobot | #topic Soft Deletes and Quotas | 20:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Soft Deletes and Quotas (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:38 | |
| redrobot | hockeynut did you want to talk about this? | 20:39 |
| hockeynut | certainly | 20:39 |
| hockeynut | currently our deletes are soft deletes - marked as deleted in the DB but they still take up space | 20:39 |
| hockeynut | new BP implements quotas - and these deleted items are counted against your quota | 20:39 |
| hockeynut | that makes testing painful as many create/delete cycles will eat up your quota very quickly, and that violates the principle of least astonishment | 20:40 |
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| redrobot | I see you didn't get any responses on the ML :( | 20:40 |
| redrobot | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056126.html | 20:40 |
| redrobot | Also, here's the quota BP | 20:41 |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132091/ | 20:41 |
| hockeynut | so I think we need to look at delete and how do we reconcile with the quotas so that audit/etc requirements are handled and we still enforce what we need to enforce | 20:41 |
| redrobot | I guess the obvious question would be "Can we just not count soft-deleted secrets towards the quota?" | 20:42 |
| woodster_ | Until we have hard delete capability, I believe we need to count soft deleted resources against a quota otherwise these quotas do no good to prevent system abuse. | 20:42 |
| hockeynut | redrobot that could lead to someone loading up our DB with orphaned secrets | 20:42 |
| hockeynut | leading to perf problems, etc | 20:42 |
| hockeynut | woodster_ is correct | 20:42 |
| hockeynut | (as usual) | 20:43 |
| woodster_ | I'm thinking a background process could hard delete secrets after a brief period of time...but that is not so deterministic for testing | 20:43 |
| tsv | some EDI systems i worked in the past have a separate audit db where old/unused data is moved to after a period of time. the audit db could further be archived or deleted | 20:43 |
| woodster_ | we could also add a cloud-admin hard delete feature | 20:43 |
| hockeynut | tsv yes, thats a valid option (archive) | 20:43 |
| hockeynut | woodster_ I like that one best - another rbac role so only special folks can delete type=discard or somesuch | 20:44 |
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| woodster_ | it would be nice to have a way via API to hard delete synchronously to testing phases | 20:44 |
| hockeynut | yes - an option on delete (for appropriately roled users) seems to make the most sense and would be easiest to implement | 20:44 |
| woodster_ | well, with the quote bp, we are introducing the 'cloud admin' concept to Barbican (so not the barbican admin) | 20:45 |
| hockeynut | could (or maybe not) be more finegrained - something to think about | 20:45 |
| woodster_ | ...that user could perform hard deletes perhaps...seems scary to me though | 20:46 |
| arunkant | But once the limit is reached..then what is the behavior client is expected to do? Raise the limit as hard delete is not an option? I mean it adds additional logic on client side. | 20:46 |
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| woodster_ | well, client's would not be able to raise that limit, only the admin could do that. | 20:47 |
| arunkant | to do this error handling as over time..you can reach the limit on a system which have number of deleted keys | 20:47 |
| jaosorior | woodster_: +1 | 20:47 |
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| woodster_ | so it seems that independent of this quota bp, we would need a bp to address hard deletes once and for all | 20:47 |
| hockeynut | not even sure that this superdelete would be for anyone but the admin | 20:47 |
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| hockeynut | woodster_ + oo | 20:47 |
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| hockeynut | I'm tossing some notes into https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-kilo-sprint | 20:48 |
| alee | its a little confusing for someone to have - say a quota of 100 secrets - and then actually end up with say 50 because of deletes. | 20:48 |
| tsv | woodster, hockeynut, is this soft delete limitation due to audit pursposes or rbac ? i mean, if audit reasons, even admin cannot delete right ? | 20:48 |
| alee | do we need a separate quota for deleted entries? | 20:49 |
| redrobot | alee +1 that's an interesting idea | 20:49 |
| woodster_ | if folks are concerned though, the quota implementation could initially not count soft deleted resources? | 20:49 |
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| arunkant | alee + 1...yes over period of time..system will have deleted, expired keys..which will periodically require the need of raising these limits | 20:50 |
| woodster_ | tsv, the original reason was out of concern for mistaken hard deletes I believe | 20:50 |
| hockeynut | woodster_ or at least a sql script to clean 'em out :-) | 20:50 |
| tsv | woodster, thanks. hockeynut +1 :) | 20:50 |
| alee | arunkant, or removing /archiving them | 20:50 |
| woodster_ | hockeynut, +1 | 20:50 |
| hockeynut | another option - make hard delete a 2nd call after a normal delete - kind of an "are you sure?" | 20:51 |
| hockeynut | plenty of interesting ideas... | 20:51 |
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| redrobot | yeah... definitely sounds like we might have to revisit this next week | 20:51 |
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| hockeynut | yup | 20:51 |
| woodster_ | there was also talk in the past of having a per project or per secret hard/soft delete policy | 20:51 |
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| alee | if we have a separate quota for deleted entries then we can easily separate the quota problem from the delete problem. basically we can solve the quota problem - and we'll have the infrastructure for another quota. | 20:52 |
| arunkant | alee, yes..provided there is mechanism to do in barbican via API or some periodic cleanup mechanism | 20:52 |
| woodster_ | ...as there are some compliance regimes that require a true hard deletion (if I recall from the distant past) | 20:52 |
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| hockeynut | gc 4 secrets | 20:53 |
| hockeynut | (c) 2015 | 20:53 |
| alee | seems to me that dealing with soft/hard deletes is a whole separate BP | 20:53 |
| hockeynut | alee + oo | 20:53 |
| hockeynut | and not a trivial BP | 20:53 |
| woodster_ | alee +1 that's what I'm in favor of. I'd like to keep independent of the quota bp if possible. | 20:53 |
| jaosorior | alee: +1 | 20:53 |
| tsv | alee, +1 | 20:53 |
| woodster_ | alee, the exception being quota on deleted secrets | 20:53 |
| hockeynut | woodster_ that would be a possible solution in the delete BP, right? The current BP would go forward as-is? | 20:54 |
| redrobot | I like the idea of having a quota on "auditable secrets" ie, the soft deleted ones | 20:55 |
| alee | woodster_, right -- I'm thinking we allow current quota BP to go forward - counting deleted secrets in the quota. | 20:55 |
| woodster_ | hockeynut, I'd prefer that...so we can land that innitial bp and get traction on it. The delete issue would only add to that API (or else provide other means to delete) | 20:55 |
| alee | then subsquent bp makes this a separate quota | 20:55 |
| hockeynut | woodster_ yessir | 20:55 |
| woodster_ | +1's all around then :) | 20:56 |
| hockeynut | alee yup - unless we decide that another quota isn't the best solution (right now just lots of options that all need some deep thought and queso) | 20:56 |
| woodster_ | ...so if folks can review teh quote bp in that context... | 20:56 |
| alee | hockeynut, right | 20:56 |
| arunkant | woodster_, +1 | 20:56 |
| woodster_ | hockeynut,...and pints as jaosorior mentioned | 20:56 |
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| hockeynut | perfect | 20:56 |
| redrobot | ok, so it seems we're in agreement then. | 20:57 |
| redrobot | which is great, because we're almost out of time. | 20:57 |
| tsv | woodster_, thanks for your latest comments. redrobot, hockeynut, could you please check on the replies to your comments ? | 20:57 |
| hockeynut | a happy coincidence | 20:57 |
| redrobot | tsv will do | 20:57 |
| hockeynut | yep | 20:57 |
| tsv | thanks | 20:57 |
| jaosorior | woodster_: +2 | 20:57 |
| redrobot | No IRC meeting next week because of the Mid-Cycle | 20:57 |
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| redrobot | See y'all in Austin! | 20:58 |
| hockeynut | looking forward to seeing y'all ! | 20:58 |
| alee | <start shameless plug> I have a bunch of pretty large code CRs that have been hangling out for awhile. Would love to get traction on these before mid-cycle. <end plug> | 20:58 |
| hockeynut | PS its 80 and sunny today | 20:58 |
| redrobot | alee I owe you a ton of reviews... I'll get to at least some of them tonight | 20:59 |
| alee | redrobot, thanks | 20:59 |
| redrobot | thanks everyone for coming | 20:59 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| woodster_ | I added a comment to the CR summarizing this | 20:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 9 20:59:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-02-09-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-02-09-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-02-09-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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