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| mattmceuen | #startmeeting openstack-helm | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 15:00:30 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mattmceuen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm' | 15:00 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Rollcall | 15:00 |
| *** raymaika has joined #openstack-meeting-5 | 15:00 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| mattmceuen | GM everyone! | 15:00 |
| raymaika | o/ | 15:00 |
| srwilkers | o/ | 15:00 |
| srwilkers | its morning | 15:00 |
| srwilkers | wont say if its good yet or not | 15:01 |
| mattmceuen | Here's the agenda - I'll give folks a couple mins to fill it out https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2017-12-12 | 15:01 |
| mattmceuen | srwilkers: it's gonna be a great day man | 15:02 |
| portdirect | o/ | 15:02 |
| srwilkers | our optimistic captain at the helm would never steer us wrong | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | #titanic | 15:02 |
| portdirect | too soon mattmceuen | 15:02 |
| portdirect | too soon | 15:02 |
| srwilkers | oof | 15:03 |
| srwilkers | im more of a hunt for red october kinda guy | 15:03 |
| mattmceuen | alrighty let's get this show on the road | 15:03 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Dependencies on non-default images | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dependencies on non-default images (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:03 | |
| mattmceuen | Let me lay this out for y'all. I want to accomplish two things here: | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | 1) Come up with a general principle for us OSH engineers to apply | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | 2) Come up with a tactical plan for Hyunsun's PS | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | First the problem statement: Hyunsun has a PS that has a feature (lbaas plugin), which is turned off by default | 15:05 |
| mattmceuen | The feature doesn't work with the default neutron kolla 3.2.0 image that we have configured | 15:05 |
| mattmceuen | It doesn't cause any issues unless you turn the feature on, but if you turn it on, you also have to switch out the image to support the feature | 15:06 |
| mattmceuen | That's something that either needs to be documented very well (with a reference to an image you can use which supports the feature), or, we should apply a "feature must wait till the default images support it" rule | 15:06 |
| mattmceuen | So that's the RFC for you all. I've heard both opinions. | 15:07 |
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| mattmceuen | I am personally leaning toward "don't merge until the default image supports" | 15:07 |
| mattmceuen | Perhaps leaving the door open for "... unless there is a really special circumstance we haven't thought of yet" | 15:08 |
| portdirect | Agreed, though we should confirm if the 4.0.0 image works ok with newton | 15:08 |
| mattmceuen | Otherwise we could end up with spaghetti dependencies | 15:08 |
| mattmceuen | you're skipping ahead portdirect! | 15:08 |
| portdirect | lol - I'll be quite ;) | 15:09 |
| mattmceuen | Any dissenting or reaffirming opinions? | 15:09 |
| srwilkers | im skeptical of having a default image that doesnt work. as it shouldn't be considered the default at that point | 15:09 |
| mattmceuen | Everyone on xmas vacation already? :-D | 15:09 |
| srwilkers | its nothing but a placeholder then | 15:10 |
| portdirect | ++ | 15:10 |
| mattmceuen | Alrighty: | 15:10 |
| mattmceuen | #agreed features should not be merged until they are supported by the default images, even if they're turned off by default | 15:11 |
| mattmceuen | Next: let's get tactical | 15:11 |
| mattmceuen | lbaas is supposed to be supported since kilo, and Hyunsun has or will file a bug with kolla for not supporting | 15:11 |
| portdirect | I suspect that will not yeild joy as newton is eol. | 15:12 |
| mattmceuen | We could potentially swap in the kolla 4.0.0 image just for the needful image, or swap in a loki image if it supports it out of box | 15:12 |
| srwilkers | in the past, we've had issues getting kolla to provide fixes to images that don't work with the charts we're building | 15:12 |
| srwilkers | plus what portdirect said | 15:12 |
| portdirect | I think the first step would be to see if a 4.0.0 image works with 3.0.3 - if it does great | 15:12 |
| srwilkers | portdirect: ++ | 15:13 |
| mattmceuen | Agree - I will pas that on to Hyunsun. Thanks guys. | 15:13 |
| portdirect | on that ps as well while we are here | 15:13 |
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| srwilkers | tlam__: late to the party! | 15:13 |
| portdirect | we will need to test it a bit - as lbaas agent with haproxy used to be prone to leaving zombie processes about | 15:13 |
| tlam__ | o/ sorry was running late | 15:13 |
| portdirect | so we may need an init system in that pod to reap them... | 15:14 |
| mattmceuen | (the PS by the way is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/522162/) | 15:14 |
| * portdirect finished rant | 15:14 | |
| * srwilkers thinks the patchset needs more cowbell | 15:14 | |
| mattmceuen | shortest rant I've heard out of you yet portdirect, you've been refining your style | 15:14 |
| mattmceuen | Yup Hyunsun affirmed the zombie apocalype this morning | 15:15 |
| portdirect | I just want LBaaS in :D its a great thing for us to use with magnum :) | 15:15 |
| mattmceuen | amen | 15:15 |
| portdirect | Kubernetes on Openstack on Kubernetes awaits :D | 15:15 |
| * srwilkers groans | 15:15 | |
| mattmceuen | turtles all the way down | 15:15 |
| * portdirect dares not abbreviate that. | 15:15 | |
| mattmceuen | Next: | 15:16 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Fluentd Chart | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fluentd Chart (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:16 | |
| mattmceuen | Take it away swilkers! | 15:16 |
| srwilkers | the patchset in question is: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/519548/ | 15:16 |
| srwilkers | sungil and jayahn have done a great job at getting this work started, and i feel bad that it's moved destinations twice as we've worked to get osh-infra sorted | 15:17 |
| srwilkers | i think the works almost there, but it might need some tweaking to really shine. i think the charts need to be separated to appropriately handle rbac for both services without getting too confusing | 15:18 |
| mattmceuen | do we have jayahn? | 15:18 |
| srwilkers | i also think the configuration files need to be defined in values.yaml to allow for customization of the filters and matches for complex use cases | 15:18 |
| srwilkers | i dont think we do :( | 15:18 |
| portdirect | how come split for rbac? | 15:19 |
| portdirect | would it not just be a rbac-fluent.yaml, and rbac-fluentbit.yaml ? | 15:19 |
| srwilkers | the helm-toolkit function names the entrypoints by release | 15:19 |
| portdirect | totally agree on moving configs to values. | 15:19 |
| srwilkers | so splitting them out in the way you mentioned results in duplicate names | 15:20 |
| portdirect | but the entrypoint service account would be the same for both | 15:20 |
| srwilkers | okay, thats a misunderstanding on my part then | 15:21 |
| portdirect | though it does touch on tins rbac work - and how much simpler that will make things - can we add that to parking lot | 15:21 |
| mattmceuen | yup | 15:22 |
| mattmceuen | Can the values file configurability be done in a follow-on PS? | 15:22 |
| srwilkers | it could be. the prime value add there in my mind is that we could then configure fluentd to capture the logs running in the osh-infra gates | 15:23 |
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| mattmceuen | Cool - I'm looking forward to getting the great work to date merged if possible | 15:24 |
| mattmceuen | So where did you land srwilkers - do you think we need to split the fluentd chart after all? | 15:24 |
| srwilkers | its my opinion that it'd make things cleaner and i dont think the collector and aggregator need to be coupled in the same chart, but thats just my opinion | 15:26 |
| srwilkers | im not entirely stuck on it | 15:26 |
| *** MarkBaker has joined #openstack-meeting-5 | 15:27 | |
| mattmceuen | Would that be overly difficult to change later if we went down the single-chart path today? | 15:27 |
| srwilkers | nah | 15:27 |
| MarkBaker | o/ | 15:28 |
| srwilkers | hey MarkBaker | 15:28 |
| mattmceuen | awesome - I am in git'er merged mode as the holidays approach :-D | 15:28 |
| mattmceuen | GM MarkBaker! | 15:28 |
| srwilkers | let me make sure nothing else needs to be cleaned up in that patchset then should be good to go | 15:28 |
| alanmeadows | Egg Nog in one hand, +2 mouse in the other -- sounds dangerous. | 15:28 |
| mattmceuen | alanmeadows same hand | 15:28 |
| alanmeadows | nice | 15:29 |
| portdirect | why does `merica not understand the benefits of mulled wine? | 15:29 |
| mattmceuen | sounds like a cultural learning opportunity | 15:29 |
| mattmceuen | srwilkers you keep the talking stick | 15:29 |
| MarkBaker | alanmeadows, drinks egg nogs that require 2 hands? | 15:29 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Prometheus 2.0 | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Prometheus 2.0 (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:29 | |
| mattmceuen | alanmeadows is a legit pro at egg nog | 15:29 |
| alanmeadows | It comes in a stein | 15:29 |
| srwilkers | so prometheus 2.0 was released a bit ago. it brought some benefits im happy to see | 15:30 |
| srwilkers | the storage layer was drastically reworked to improve performance and reduce resource consumption | 15:30 |
| srwilkers | it also changed the rules format from gotpl to yaml, which makes me especially happy | 15:31 |
| * portdirect does happy dance | 15:31 | |
| srwilkers | ive got a patchset to change the prometheus chart in osh-infra to use prometheus 2.0 by default | 15:31 |
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| srwilkers | there are a few other items i want to get merged first before looking to merge it, but it works currently | 15:32 |
| alanmeadows | That would be fantastic, one primary concern surrounding prometheus up until this point was its resource consumption | 15:32 |
| srwilkers | one of the new storage features added was the ability to snapshot the time series database | 15:32 |
| srwilkers | alanmeadows: yeah, i've had a few instances running at home and it wasnt uncommon for prometheus to fall over after chewing through resources | 15:32 |
| srwilkers | i was curious if there was appetite for including a cron job in the prometheus chart for snapshotting the database at configured intervals | 15:33 |
| *** mjturek has quit IRC | 15:33 | |
| portdirect | srwilkers: what would the objective of the cron job be? backup? | 15:35 |
| alanmeadows | Beyond that, we should think about how we might trigger that action as well, and how we might apply the same approach to things like mariadb - preupgrade actions across all of these data warehouses | 15:35 |
| srwilkers | portdirect: yep | 15:35 |
| mattmceuen | so prometheus can have multiple servers replicating the same data in case one goes down. Would we be using it that way? | 15:35 |
| srwilkers | alanmeadows: also agree | 15:35 |
| portdirect | we could really do with a `helm fire-hook foo` | 15:35 |
| portdirect | that operates the same way test does | 15:36 |
| alanmeadows | yes | 15:36 |
| alanmeadows | really the ask would just be make 'test' arbitrary | 15:36 |
| portdirect | should we look into the feasibility of making a ps for that? | 15:37 |
| portdirect | ohh github - s/ps/pr | 15:37 |
| mattmceuen | I like that idea | 15:37 |
| srwilkers | i think that'd make sense | 15:37 |
| alanmeadows | It satisfies two outstanding asks, being able to break tests apart into impacting vs non-impacting | 15:37 |
| alanmeadows | and arbitrary actions like backups/snapshots/reversions/... ? | 15:37 |
| portdirect | i think so | 15:38 |
| portdirect | give us a new hammer, and we'll find nails... | 15:38 |
| srwilkers | :) | 15:38 |
| alanmeadows | or just hit things | 15:38 |
| srwilkers | that too | 15:38 |
| mattmceuen | Any other prom bits you want to cover now srwilkers? I'm looking fw to 2.0 | 15:39 |
| srwilkers | but that concludes my points there | 15:39 |
| srwilkers | nope, thats it for me | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | cool. portdirect get ready | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | #topic The Future of Ceph! | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "The Future of Ceph! (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:39 | |
| alanmeadows | Is this, the Ceph of Tomorrow, Today? | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | give us a glimpse of this amazing future, technologist | 15:40 |
| portdirect | its the ceph of the futrure, tomorrow. | 15:40 |
| * alanmeadows sips some nog. | 15:40 | |
| portdirect | at kubecon i had some good chats with the ceph peeps re the various ceph-chart efforts | 15:40 |
| portdirect | and I think (ok hope) that we all have the same desire for there to be one well maintained chart that deploys ceph | 15:41 |
| portdirect | rather than the 3 or so versions I know of today. | 15:41 |
| mattmceuen | variety is the spice of maintenance | 15:41 |
| portdirect | the chart used by ceph/ceph-helm is actually a fork of ours, which in turn is a chartified version of seb-hans work | 15:42 |
| portdirect | I put a summary of the steps that we hashed out to get to a single chart in the etherpad | 15:42 |
| portdirect | for the sake of meeting logging I'll paste them here | 15:42 |
| portdirect | As ceph goes much further than just OpenStack, it makes sense for this to be hosted either by Ceph, or in K8s/charts | 15:44 |
| portdirect | ceph/ceph-helm is based on the osh ceph chart from approx 3 months ago | 15:44 |
| portdirect | We met with the ceph maintainers (core team) at kubecon and discussed their desires/issues with both of our charts and come up with the following proposals: | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 1) Split Keystone endpoint creation out of the ceph chart and into its own thing (that would live in OSH) | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 2) Merge the healthchecks from OSH into Ceph-Helm | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 3) Merge the luminous support from Ceph-Helm into OSH | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 4) Update the loopback device creation scripts from bash to ansible | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 5) Combine the disc targetting efforts from both OSH and Ceph-Helm into a single effort that brings the reliability of RH's approach with the OSD by bus-id from OSH | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 6) The Ceph-Helm chart will then be moved/mirrored to k8s/charts | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 7) At this point, add an OSH gates to experimentally use the Ceph-Helm chart | 15:44 |
| portdirect | 8) Once stabilised and we have confidence, depreciate the OSH ceph chart | 15:44 |
| portdirect | the order is obviously somewhat flexible - but as a general outline how does this seem? | 15:44 |
| mattmceuen | digesting... | 15:47 |
| alanmeadows | What is the destination, for example in #2 -- ceph/ceph-helm or K8s/charts? | 15:47 |
| portdirect | ceph/ceph-helm | 15:47 |
| alanmeadows | is this mismash of combination in various targets before aligning on one target because this spans a large period of time? | 15:48 |
| portdirect | and then once the majority of big changes are done we move to k8s/charts | 15:48 |
| portdirect | i would like us at 7 by eoy | 15:48 |
| alanmeadows | i.e. #2 does work in ceph-helm, #3 in osh | 15:48 |
| portdirect | and 8 in the first two weeks of next | 15:48 |
| portdirect | yup - I have merge rights in ceph/ceph-helm to faciliate this moving faster | 15:49 |
| jayahn | Hi late | 15:49 |
| mattmceuen | hey jayahn! | 15:49 |
| mattmceuen | portdirect: s/disc/disk/ and I then I like the plan | 15:50 |
| srwilkers | hey jayahn | 15:50 |
| jayahn | Just fell a sleep. :) | 15:50 |
| jayahn | While waiting for the meetinf | 15:51 |
| srwilkers | just curious portdirect, as i havent paid much attention to the ceph work. does the luminous support include enabling the built-in prometheus metrics exporter via ceph-mgr? | 15:51 |
| srwilkers | as that makes the ceph-exporter work something we can drop once that's accomplished i think | 15:52 |
| portdirect | srwilkers: it does :D | 15:53 |
| srwilkers | nice :) | 15:53 |
| mattmceuen | I think your plan is the plan portdirect, unless there are any other thoughts | 15:54 |
| alanmeadows | It gets us to a unified chart the community owns, I'm all good | 15:54 |
| mattmceuen | t minus 5 mins | 15:54 |
| mattmceuen | and still agenda items - may have to punt till next week. alanmeadows, will yours fit in 5? | 15:55 |
| jayahn | unified ceph chart. sounds really good to me | 15:55 |
| portdirect | if we can fit in alanmeadows's topic that would be great | 15:56 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Holistic etcd approach | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Holistic etcd approach (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:56 | |
| mattmceuen | to quote alanmeadows: Holistic etcd approach | 15:57 |
| mattmceuen | Various charts trying to use etcd, can we (and should we) unify an approach, or let etcds sprinkle the cloud? | 15:57 |
| mattmceuen | e.g. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/525752/ | 15:57 |
| mattmceuen | Rabbit would likely follow in approach at some point | 15:57 |
| mattmceuen | Calico .... | 15:57 |
| alanmeadows | I see a few different etcds popping up | 15:57 |
| alanmeadows | This seems like we need to tackle this one if nothing else to be cognizant of what we're doing | 15:58 |
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| portdirect | agreed - I'd like us to get a solid etcd chart that we can use | 15:59 |
| mattmceuen | Start with a spec of one etcd chart to rule them all? | 15:59 |
| alanmeadows | I think so, with a few harder needs in mind | 15:59 |
| alanmeadows | not just resiliency but backups, disaster recovery, and so on | 15:59 |
| mattmceuen | Let's let this marinate and continue to discuss next time - we're out of time friends | 15:59 |
| mattmceuen | thanks everyone | 15:59 |
| mattmceuen | see y'all in the #openstack-helm ! | 16:00 |
| mattmceuen | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OVO patches (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 16:00:10 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-12-12-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-12-12-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-12-12-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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