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| srwilkers | #startmeeting openstack-helm | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 15 15:00:09 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is srwilkers. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm' | 15:00 |
| jayahn | o/ | 15:00 |
| alraddarla | o/ | 15:00 |
| srwilkers | #topic roll call | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
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| srwilkers | o/ | 15:00 |
| raymaika | o/ | 15:00 |
| lrensing | o/ | 15:00 |
| portdirect | \o | 15:01 |
| srwilkers | hello everyone :) | 15:01 |
| srwilkers | here's the agenda for today: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2017-08-15 | 15:01 |
| jayahn | today was holiday here. :) it seems lots of things happening over there cross the pacific ;) long meeting note. | 15:01 |
| srwilkers | got quite a bit of information on it already, but we can take a few minutes to add anything else | 15:01 |
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| v1k0d3n | o/ (sorry late) | 15:02 |
| srwilkers | nice jayahn -- hope you enjoyed the holiday :) | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | o/ GM all | 15:02 |
| srwilkers | hey mattmceuen | 15:03 |
| srwilkers | welcome to the party | 15:03 |
| srwilkers | let's go ahead and get started | 15:03 |
| srwilkers | #topic PTG reminder | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG reminder (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:03 | |
| lamt | o/ | 15:03 |
| srwilkers | just a friendly reminder -- the PTG's coming up quickly, so wanted to call attention back to the etherpad we had running for discussions: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-denver-ptg-topics | 15:04 |
| jayahn | is there any schedule for ptg meeting, especially when we have meetings during five days of PTG. | 15:04 |
| srwilkers | also, since we're a hosted project, we wont have an officially scheduled time. i do know myself, portdirect, lamt and alraddarla will be there throughout the entire week | 15:04 |
| portdirect | think alanmeadows should be around too | 15:05 |
| srwilkers | we'll be responsible for identifying our own time to meet unfortunately, as we cant be put on the schedule officially | 15:05 |
| srwilkers | its hard to see him in that black fleece | 15:05 |
| srwilkers | he melds into everything | 15:05 |
| jayahn | I would like to leave early if possible, probably on Thursday. will it be possible to have all openstack-helm meetings between Mon - Wendesday? just asking. :) | 15:05 |
| srwilkers | jayahn: absolutely | 15:05 |
| jayahn | great. then, i will finalize my flight. :) | 15:06 |
| srwilkers | jayahn: awesome. look forward to seeing and chatting with you :) | 15:06 |
| portdirect | jayahn: but then we miss you on friday night :( | 15:06 |
| jayahn | yeah.. that is true. | 15:06 |
| alraddarla | i'm leaving friday night too :( | 15:06 |
| srwilkers | #topic Libvirt/OVS breakout | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Libvirt/OVS breakout (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:07 | |
| * portdirect can come out for 1 (or 8) on thurs - but has work to do on friday :( | 15:07 | |
| srwilkers | portdirect: floors yours | 15:07 |
| portdirect | hey, so I've started work on pulling libvirt and ovs out of their parent charts | 15:08 |
| portdirect | they were odd-ducks in osh as they included the supporting infra | 15:08 |
| portdirect | making it hard to plug in other backends | 15:08 |
| portdirect | and when they were - they seemed like 2nd class citizens | 15:08 |
| portdirect | this was also causeing us some trouble when we wanted to use theservice (gasp) without openstack | 15:09 |
| v1k0d3n | this is really good to see. | 15:09 |
| v1k0d3n | is there a blueprint? | 15:09 |
| portdirect | the two ps's are up in gerrit - and I hope to have fininshed by eod | 15:09 |
| portdirect | though reviews welcome | 15:09 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-helm/+spec/split-nova-and-neutron-infra | 15:09 |
| v1k0d3n | great! thanks portdirect | 15:10 |
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| portdirect | this will also make the neutron work a lot eaier i think for onos and other sdn backends to come in | 15:10 |
| v1k0d3n | that makes things much more flexible. was wondering how the team was going to implement this, although it was pretty obvious this is probably the best path. | 15:10 |
| portdirect | *easier | 15:10 |
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| jayahn | okay. +1 on breaking out these two. | 15:11 |
| srwilkers | nice. any other comments on this topic? | 15:12 |
| v1k0d3n | docs are going to be included as well portdirect ? | 15:12 |
| portdirect | check the ps :) | 15:12 |
| v1k0d3n | i saw that. but other than just copy paste...i mean explanation on why, how this open things up to be more flexible. | 15:13 |
| srwilkers | i think a mention of the flexibility it adds would be sufficient in my eyes -- the goals always been to be pluggable, and this really brings the charts in line with the message we've been trying to sell | 15:15 |
| portdirect | Its fits the mission statement of osh i think? | 15:15 |
| srwilkers | i think so. i think the addition of varying backends would require a bit of documentation covering any of the specifics that might shed light on what they offer, but i'd like to see those added as the additional backends are brought in | 15:16 |
| v1k0d3n | this is probably really easy to see for developers or those close to the project.... | 15:16 |
| portdirect | https://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm#mission | 15:17 |
| v1k0d3n | however, i think it's a little lost that users struggle with OSH, and we're really trying to win over new operators and contributors. expanding on ps like these are the "ah-ha" moments that operators need. | 15:17 |
| v1k0d3n | referring back to the mission doesn't really explain how each knob works. | 15:18 |
| srwilkers | i think we need to balance which knobs need explaining -- there's two extremes i think. too little explanation and too much. i'm really fond of having self-documenting code and having it structured to represent that | 15:18 |
| portdirect | +2 | 15:19 |
| portdirect | perhaps this is a perfect moment to lead into the next topic? | 15:20 |
| v1k0d3n | i agree with balancing knobs. but only documenting cut/paste deployment commands shouldn't really be the answer. | 15:21 |
| srwilkers | there's a few items listed under the documentation topic -- v1k0d3n portdirect, floors yours | 15:21 |
| srwilkers | #topic Documentation | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:21 | |
| v1k0d3n | portdirect: you could just reach back out to the community to see if someone could take over the ps and document some things for you. | 15:21 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n: take it away :) | 15:21 |
| v1k0d3n | this is a great thing for a lead to do...and then that could be a way to engage the community better, and share work. | 15:22 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n: a follow on ps would be great | 15:22 |
| portdirect | though not opposed to anyone adding docs to it :) | 15:22 |
| v1k0d3n | ok, so to these points...i think we (collectively) could open opportunities for new contributors, and also be a bit more welcoming by asking for help with docs. | 15:23 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n: would be great place for you to get involved again | 15:23 |
| v1k0d3n | it would be nice to follow _almost_ a pair programming model where a lead contributes a large ps, and then works with a community member for providing docs. | 15:23 |
| portdirect | as we've missed having you push work :) | 15:23 |
| v1k0d3n | i'm somewhat back :) | 15:23 |
| v1k0d3n | and as srwilkers knows...our group is starting to get more engaged. | 15:24 |
| srwilkers | im open to getting new contributors working on the docs - it'd be a great place to get started. | 15:24 |
| v1k0d3n | well, and if we have folks like portdirect srwilkers or others work with new contributors...people will feel like they're part of it. | 15:25 |
| v1k0d3n | and i think we'd gain the momentum we want/need. | 15:26 |
| v1k0d3n | along with solving some of the missing docs issues. | 15:26 |
| v1k0d3n | so srwilkers can you come up with a list of documentation gaps? | 15:26 |
| v1k0d3n | i can have our folks work with you to help fill in some of those... | 15:26 |
| srwilkers | i think it'd be great for people identifying them to submit bugs about the shortcomings. unfortunately its the feedback from those who can see something missing or that isnt clear that really helps shed light on what we need | 15:27 |
| v1k0d3n | but more communication on IRC would be good too. blueprints would be good. in fact moving to storyboard would help a lot...so some load would be distributed more with the community. | 15:27 |
| v1k0d3n | i want it to _feel_ like a community project...not just coming from one source. | 15:27 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n: could you make a list of the docs gaps and get your team on it? would be a great way to change the fear you have | 15:28 |
| v1k0d3n | i don't have time portdirect | 15:28 |
| v1k0d3n | sorry | 15:28 |
| portdirect | :( I fear we are all in the same boat then | 15:29 |
| v1k0d3n | plus, if i remember correctly...i thought were were supposed to accept ps with documentation. | 15:29 |
| v1k0d3n | so this just executes on that plan | 15:29 |
| v1k0d3n | and still leaves the hard parts to good devs like yourself. and pairs you up with someone who could learn from you from the community. | 15:29 |
| v1k0d3n | if it's not a good idea...i'm fine with dropping it. i just think i'm seeing a bit more 3D coming to a new company, and hearing the questions directly from non-OSH devs. | 15:30 |
| mattmceuen | There's already documentation in the PS. I think there's a good opportunity for follow-on documentation that describes overall design philosophy. | 15:30 |
| v1k0d3n | i gotta run to a meeting. srwilkers let me know what your thoughts are. | 15:30 |
| srwilkers | cheers v1k0d3n -- grab coffee on the way | 15:31 |
| v1k0d3n | so a one liner in the docs is enough for libvirt moving to a new chart? | 15:31 |
| v1k0d3n | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/493738/5/doc/source/install/developer/all-in-one.rst | 15:31 |
| v1k0d3n | ok...i bow out then :) | 15:31 |
| srwilkers | let's move on | 15:32 |
| srwilkers | #topic Images | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Images (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:32 | |
| srwilkers | portdirect: floors yours | 15:32 |
| portdirect | lol | 15:32 |
| portdirect | 2 sec | 15:32 |
| portdirect | think a copy/paste from the etherpad is relivant here: | 15:33 |
| portdirect | The kolla 3.0.3 images have done us pretty well - though have shortcomings: | 15:33 |
| portdirect | many severe issues are in the docker.io pushed images - and kolla will not update them. | 15:33 |
| portdirect | - the lack of httpd/uwsgi in the containers prior to the 5.0.x series makes forward looking dev hard - and also is limiting when wanting to use internal tls (unless we go down the sidecar container route - yuk) | 15:33 |
| portdirect | - This also make graceful handover of services on rolling upgrades a bit more janky than it has to be - apache is much better than eventlet here. | 15:33 |
| portdirect | As a result would making and pushing new set of images make sense? we used to use the stackenetes images - as they encountered similar issues - and I'm thinking it may be time to do the same so that we can have a set of similary non-production images to use for dev and demo purposes.I | 15:34 |
| srwilkers | ive been back and forth on this one | 15:34 |
| srwilkers | but the more we've used the kolla images, the more issues we've found with them | 15:35 |
| jayahn | new set of images, could you be more specific? | 15:35 |
| portdirect | I'm thinking of a set of images, built from kolla-build 5.0.0 for ubuntu source | 15:35 |
| portdirect | that would contain all the current fixes to openstack that are not in the images kolla pushed to dockerhub | 15:36 |
| portdirect | and also have apache/uwsgi for apis | 15:36 |
| jayahn | ah.. i got that. | 15:37 |
| portdirect | in addtion to the reasons above - one of the main advantages of moving to a kolla-build 5.x derived image is fixed uid/gid for service users | 15:37 |
| portdirect | which is a super big win for security | 15:37 |
| lamt | ++ | 15:38 |
| srwilkers | i assume these'll get built and live in quay, and those become our reference? | 15:38 |
| jayahn | i am totally okay with building a set of images from kolla-build, not using docker.io one. | 15:38 |
| portdirect | srwilkers: thats what I think wuld be appropriate | 15:39 |
| portdirect | we could include the refs to making them in gh - so they were totally reproduceable | 15:39 |
| lrensing | i'm in support of that, build new and host on quay | 15:39 |
| portdirect | but host and donate them to the community | 15:40 |
| lrensing | yes | 15:40 |
| portdirect | nice, cheers lrensing | 15:40 |
| srwilkers | okay, lets give it a go and try it out | 15:40 |
| jayahn | if i understand correctly (just for confirmaiton on my understanding) | 15:40 |
| * portdirect awats input | 15:40 | |
| srwilkers | its something ive been thinking about as we've found other services we need to build images for | 15:41 |
| jayahn | we start building a set of openstack images with kolla-build tool 5.0.0 | 15:41 |
| jayahn | host those images in quay | 15:41 |
| jayahn | use that image as reference in openstack-helm project. | 15:41 |
| jayahn | am i getting right? | 15:41 |
| portdirect | yes | 15:41 |
| portdirect | I can host the images while a WIP - and then once things move towards mergable push to quay | 15:42 |
| srwilkers | seems we have consensus for the most part? | 15:42 |
| portdirect | srwilkers, lrensing, jayahn? | 15:43 |
| srwilkers | portdirect: yeah, sounds good | 15:43 |
| jayahn | yes. just one quick question. who will be responsible for making sure we are building good ones? :) | 15:43 |
| * portdirect looks other way | 15:43 | |
| jayahn | will we be putting some minial check routin on image buidling process? | 15:43 |
| portdirect | the gate in osh | 15:44 |
| portdirect | but to confirm - these are *NOT* ment to be production images | 15:44 |
| jayahn | yeap. i got that. :) | 15:44 |
| jayahn | i can let you or stacey to talk with Wil, to get some basic bats test we are using internally to check images from kolla-build. | 15:45 |
| portdirect | jayahn: that would be awesome | 15:45 |
| jayahn | although we are not using 5.0.0... | 15:45 |
| jayahn | :) | 15:45 |
| srwilkers | lrensing, lamt: you on board? | 15:45 |
| lrensing | i am in support of this | 15:46 |
| srwilkers | awesome | 15:46 |
| srwilkers | let's go ahead and move on then | 15:46 |
| srwilkers | #topic neutron decomposition | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "neutron decomposition (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:47 | |
| srwilkers | think this was you jayahn :) | 15:47 |
| srwilkers | floors yours | 15:47 |
| jayahn | ah. nothing special. | 15:47 |
| jayahn | just want to check "what urgency do you guys have in mind to make it merge". :) | 15:47 |
| portdirect | ok - s one bit of fb i have is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/481225/ | 15:47 |
| portdirect | I'm really not comfortable with the logic being inserted into the configmaps | 15:48 |
| jayahn | i saw new review on the neutron decomposition ps, which i have to make siri to think more. | 15:48 |
| jayahn | yeah. about that. | 15:48 |
| jayahn | i will have internal discussion tomorrow about that, and will back with our newer idea. | 15:49 |
| portdirect | nice - cheers jayahn | 15:49 |
| portdirect | the decomposotion model is now in all openstack charts | 15:49 |
| portdirect | I'm fine with other knobs being added | 15:49 |
| jayahn | just, FYI, we are kind of urgent to build an ci pipeline around SONA integration. | 15:49 |
| lamt | srwilkers : yes, sorry was distracted by other convo | 15:49 |
| portdirect | but am worred that if we go to far then the templates will become a mess | 15:49 |
| portdirect | and my gut says a 'drop-in' replacement would be better | 15:50 |
| portdirect | than adding a lot of logic to the current template | 15:50 |
| jayahn | so wanted to make it work from upstream, but will get you input and will think more about that.. after all, it is about making it better and simple to use. | 15:50 |
| portdirect | +2 cheers jayahn | 15:50 |
| srwilkers | awesome | 15:52 |
| srwilkers | anything else here? | 15:52 |
| srwilkers | #topic open discussion | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:54 | |
| srwilkers | we've got a few minutes left. any other items anyone wants to chat about? | 15:54 |
| * portdirect has this terrible pain in all the diodes down his left side | 15:54 | |
| srwilkers | alright, ill go ahead and close it out. see you all in the channel | 15:55 |
| srwilkers | #endmeeting | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 15 15:55:35 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-08-15-15.00.html | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-08-15-15.00.txt | 15:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-08-15-15.00.log.html | 15:55 |
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