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| gaborm_ | help | 11:45 |
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| ricolin | #startmeeting heat | 15:00 |
| ricolin | #topic roll call | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 7 15:00:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ricolin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:00 | |
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| zaneb | howdy | 15:00 |
| gaborm | hello | 15:00 |
| ramishra | hi | 15:00 |
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| mrwolf | hi all | 15:01 |
| kazsh | Hi team | 15:01 |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:01 |
| therve | Hey | 15:01 |
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| gaborm | I am Gábor Márton from Nokia | 15:01 |
| LanceHaig | Hi | 15:01 |
| ricolin | gaborm, so glad you're here! | 15:01 |
| strigazi | o/ | 15:01 |
| ricolin | #topic adding items to agenda | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "adding items to agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:01 | |
| ricolin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282017-06-07_1500_UTC.29 | 15:01 |
| gaborm | thanks rico, looking forward to discussing | 15:01 |
| ricolin | gaborm, I already put it in agenda | 15:02 |
| ricolin | feel free to add more in | 15:02 |
| gaborm | thanks for putting it onto the agenda | 15:02 |
| mrwolf | connecting to the adopt/abandon topic, I would like to discuss the state/future of externalId/external reference | 15:03 |
| mrwolf | (Peter Wolf, also from Nokia) | 15:03 |
| ricolin | mrwolf, sure | 15:03 |
| zaneb | +1 | 15:04 |
| ricolin | #topic weekly report | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "weekly report (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:04 | |
| ricolin | no big bug this week, uwsgi just got reverted:/ | 15:04 |
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| ricolin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471730/ | 15:05 |
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| ricolin | #topic pike-2 release | 15:06 |
| ramishra | I now have patch to fix that issue though https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471804/ | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike-2 release (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:06 | |
| zaneb | there was a big bug this week, but ramishra squashed it pretty quick: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/470942/ | 15:06 |
| tiantian | hi ;) | 15:06 |
| ricolin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/470942/ | 15:06 |
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| ricolin | should we wait for that fix before pike-2? | 15:07 |
| ramishra | ricolin: nope | 15:08 |
| ricolin | I already send release patch for stable branch | 15:08 |
| ricolin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471760/ | 15:08 |
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| ricolin | Also plan to release heat, python-heatclient, heat-agents | 15:08 |
| ricolin | If nothing to raise here, I will send release patch today | 15:09 |
| zaneb | ricolin: newton gate is in bad shape, with lots of patches queued up | 15:10 |
| zaneb | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:stable/newton | 15:10 |
| ricolin | zaneb, we never actually fix that issue | 15:12 |
| zaneb | yeah | 15:12 |
| ramishra | last 2 patches are green | 15:12 |
| zaneb | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/466008/1 needs to merge before it will get better, but that is also blocked | 15:12 |
| zaneb | I just rechecked it | 15:12 |
| ricolin | will try to dive in that and hope we can pass that patch or find something to work with it | 15:15 |
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| ricolin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:heat-pike-2-release | 15:16 |
| ricolin | release patch is up | 15:16 |
| ricolin | move on:) | 15:17 |
| ricolin | #action dive in newton gate and make it green | 15:17 |
| ricolin | #topic deprecate ceilometer client | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "deprecate ceilometer client (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:17 | |
| ricolin | once https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439433/12 land | 15:18 |
| ricolin | we will have no resource depend on ceilometer client plugin(at least not in heat repo) | 15:18 |
| ricolin | as ramishra suggest, we should consider mark it as deprecate | 15:19 |
| ricolin | before we do that, is there any concern not to do so?:) | 15:20 |
| ricolin | nice:) | 15:21 |
| ricolin | move on:) | 15:21 |
| ricolin | #stack abandon/adopt | 15:21 |
| ricolin | gaborm, it's yours:) | 15:22 |
| gaborm | ok | 15:22 |
| gaborm | abandon/adopt is important for us | 15:22 |
| gaborm | would like to make sure that it is not dropped until external_id turns out to be a good replacement | 15:23 |
| zaneb | I don't have a problem with that | 15:24 |
| ramishra | gaborm: does it work well with convergenceengine ? Do you use it with newton+ heat? | 15:24 |
| zaneb | it's disabled by default, so currently mostly not hurting anyone | 15:24 |
| mrwolf | :) | 15:24 |
| mrwolf | we actually have to support from liberty+ | 15:24 |
| mrwolf | I'm not even sure if we have to support newton yet. | 15:25 |
| gaborm | we rely on it as a tool for doing whatever topology change needed for upgrading a vnf _in-service_ | 15:25 |
| zaneb | ramishra: I believe it should work with convergence. it's basically a variation on create/delete. it definitely didn't work at first but iirc that was fixed | 15:25 |
| ricolin | gaborm, maybe you guys can give a heads up for convergence, since you might want to test it with abandon/adopt before you actually move your env to use it | 15:25 |
| therve | There is no reason to drop it really. Did we deprecate it? | 15:25 |
| mrwolf | From what we see, enterprise environment tend to lag behind. | 15:26 |
| zaneb | therve: the config option is not deprecated afaik | 15:26 |
| mrwolf | To be honest, I'm not have to catch up on what convergence engine is | 15:26 |
| zaneb | mrwolf: it will change your life ;) | 15:27 |
| mrwolf | on the latest summit, it was brought up that the adopt/abandon interface might be deprectaed and dropped | 15:27 |
| mrwolf | so what I see, from major release to another major release VNFs tend to have major topology changes | 15:27 |
| LanceHaig | I agree Enterprise lags behind others | 15:27 |
| mrwolf | and sometimes they approach it with the following way | 15:28 |
| LanceHaig | so we should make sure we don't break stuff to much | 15:28 |
| ricolin | mrwolf, maybe this can help you a little | 15:28 |
| ricolin | #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVo_zHXcMC0 | 15:28 |
| mrwolf | they would like to build a new stack, representing new topology | 15:28 |
| ricolin | a bad video for onboarding | 15:28 |
| mrwolf | but there are key resources that should somehow be moved from the old stack to the new one | 15:29 |
| kazsh | umm we also rely on abandon well.... | 15:29 |
| mrwolf | (for example they hold random allocated IP for port, or floatingIp, that are propagated to other systems so they should be kept) | 15:30 |
| zaneb | topology of what exactly here? | 15:30 |
| zaneb | networks? | 15:30 |
| gaborm | ricolin: hopefully only the audio quality is bad :) | 15:30 |
| mrwolf | sorry, topology of VNFs | 15:30 |
| mrwolf | ~application | 15:31 |
| ricolin | gaborm, lol | 15:31 |
| gaborm | zaneb: ports and volumes seem the most critical ones | 15:31 |
| zaneb | mrwolf: just trying to get an idea of why this requires a whole new stack and can't be done with an update | 15:31 |
| gaborm | e.g. keep an IP address | 15:31 |
| mrwolf | basicaly a bunch of vms, volumes, networking deployed to satisfy a given purpose/service | 15:31 |
| gaborm | or keep a volume that was originally attached as "delete on terminate" | 15:32 |
| zaneb | (still clueless so far) | 15:32 |
| mrwolf | yeah, so this is 5-9 environment, it is often reqired or advised | 15:32 |
| mrwolf | to do sanity check on the new deployment ,before traffic is routed there | 15:32 |
| gaborm | say someone was not careful enough to define the HOT such that it can be upgraded by consecutive stack updates | 15:33 |
| gaborm | practically noone is careful enough like that | 15:33 |
| mrwolf | basically the old stack does everything up until the very last minute, where they do a quick switch over | 15:33 |
| ricolin | mrwolf, you mean "adopt" stack? | 15:34 |
| mrwolf | and sometimes, it just laziness where it's easier to build anew, the figuring out a logical path via stack updates to get from one topology to a majorly different new one | 15:34 |
| zaneb | mrwolf: we're working toward a future where Heat can automate all of that, but I understand | 15:34 |
| mrwolf | with abandon and adopt, one can create let go of the resources and if they are very lucky they can manually create an "export json", they can use for adopt | 15:35 |
| LanceHaig | I have to jump off something has come up sorry | 15:35 |
| mrwolf | -create | 15:36 |
| ricolin | LanceHaig, np, see you soon:) | 15:36 |
| mrwolf | hence importing resources | 15:36 |
| zaneb | mrwolf: use export *before* abandon, then you don't need as much luck | 15:36 |
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| gaborm | zaneb: thanks, that's a great feature1 | 15:37 |
| gaborm | *! | 15:37 |
| mrwolf | I also saw, that the original blueprint for external resoucres contained use cases like this: #link https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/liberty/external_resource.html | 15:37 |
| zaneb | external resources is designed to be the long-term solution to this | 15:38 |
| mrwolf | but my trials show me, that actually updating the externalId of a resource, if it was created by HEAT is not allowed | 15:38 |
| mrwolf | so this is no way to let go, or import a resource | 15:38 |
| mrwolf | (currently) | 15:38 |
| zaneb | mrwolf: you can always set deletion_policy: retain and then delete the stack | 15:38 |
| mrwolf | ok, that's half way there :) | 15:39 |
| ricolin | mrwolf, what we might do in long term, is to make sure external resource can fully take over abandon/adopt before we retire abandon/adopt | 15:40 |
| zaneb | ricolin: yes, absolutely | 15:40 |
| mrwolf | export is useful indeed, the lucky part was about editing that output with addnig new resources, in the perfect way so heat can consume it | 15:40 |
| gaborm | ricolin, zaneb: that's already great news for us | 15:41 |
| zaneb | mrwolf: haha, yeah, you will always need luck for that bit. one reason that external resources are a considerably better design | 15:41 |
| mrwolf | in Boston @zaneb said that the adopt/abandon is disabled because it is buggy, and not maintained | 15:41 |
| mrwolf | is there a list for bugs that are still valid? | 15:42 |
| zaneb | there is a standing query for those bugs :) | 15:42 |
| zaneb | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bugs?field.tag=abandon-adopt | 15:42 |
| mrwolf | how far back it is realistic to backport a fix, if we provide one? (I mean as an OS version, like liberty). Or is there major changes (like convergence sounds like) that would mean the same fix most probably won't work for older verions? | 15:43 |
| ricolin | newton | 15:44 |
| ricolin | if for security | 15:44 |
| zaneb | https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#appropriate-fixes | 15:44 |
| zaneb | we're obliged to follow that policy ^ | 15:45 |
| ricolin | zaneb, thx | 15:45 |
| mrwolf | :(, ok so what can be an earliest realistic target for new features to external resources? | 15:45 |
| zaneb | that said, it should be *technically* possible to backport fixes without too much difficulty in most cases | 15:45 |
| gaborm | I encountered strange behavior of adopting nested stacks: the "files" map needed to be filled in inconsistently, depending on the level | 15:45 |
| mrwolf | (yes, thx for all the answers, we're kind of newbie, we were at the user side of heat for the most part) | 15:46 |
| zaneb | the convergence_engine is a separate code path | 15:46 |
| mrwolf | i see | 15:47 |
| ricolin | mrwolf, gaborm do hope if you guys can help us to test with convergence mode + export/abandon/adopt for your use case when you try to move to mitaka or further | 15:47 |
| gaborm | btw, adopting nested stacks does not work with the cli---only with python-heatclient (with the create method; no adopt) | 15:47 |
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| gaborm | ricolin: sure, we hope so too | 15:48 |
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| gaborm | convergence can be turned on from mitaka? | 15:49 |
| mrwolf | internally we "play" with newton | 15:49 |
| ricolin | gaborm, yes, and it's default= true since newton | 15:50 |
| ricolin | mrwolf, ^^^ | 15:50 |
| mrwolf | but as long as we have to support down to liberty, we have to come up with solutions that can cover all supported platforms | 15:50 |
| mrwolf | ...again enterprise | 15:50 |
| mrwolf | :) | 15:50 |
| zaneb | tbh I wouldn't recommend using it in mitaka, just because it's so much better tested since it became the default in newton | 15:50 |
| gaborm | ok, we'll start testing with newton | 15:51 |
| ricolin | zaneb, +1 | 15:51 |
| mrwolf | thx, I look into convergence. | 15:52 |
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| gaborm | thanks a lot so far! we'll talk to our managers on that we need to contribute to heat | 15:52 |
| ramishra | mrwolf: liberty is EOL for us https://releases.openstack.org/ , though as zaneb mentioned you can technically backport fixes | 15:52 |
| ricolin | gaborm, mrwolf looking forward for any bug report from you guys | 15:52 |
| mrwolf | thanks for the time and aswers | 15:52 |
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| gaborm | ok, we'll report at least those two issues above | 15:53 |
| zaneb | mrwolf, gaborm: thanks, I think this was productive :) | 15:53 |
| ricolin | mrwolf, yes, like ramishra just said, it's possible that you can backport our work in new version, if that can do any help to you | 15:54 |
| gaborm | same here! :) | 15:54 |
| ricolin | nice:) | 15:54 |
| ricolin | move on | 15:54 |
| ricolin | #topic Open discussion | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:54 | |
| ricolin | anything would like to discuss?:) | 15:55 |
| ramishra | zaneb: what should we do for nova floatingip resources? They are broken atm, Is there a different approach than https://review.openstack.org/#/c/466187/ you've in mind? | 15:56 |
| zaneb | so I read somewhere that nova-network actually still exists, and it's just the passthrough to neutron in the client that was deleted | 15:57 |
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| zaneb | now I don't know what to believe or what we should be doing | 15:57 |
| ramishra | zaneb: the support is removed from novaclient | 15:57 |
| zaneb | all support for nova-network? | 15:58 |
| ramishra | yes | 15:58 |
| zaneb | but nova-network still exists in nova? | 15:59 |
| ramishra | yes, they have kept it in the server due to some dependency with placement services, that's the most I know | 15:59 |
| ramishra | I think that's what also mentioned in the mail you mentioned | 16:00 |
| ricolin | okay guys time | 16:00 |
| zaneb | "nova-network still exists in Pike and will continue to exist until we can get rid of cells v1, which isn't until we can claim support for multiple cells v2 cells." | 16:00 |
| ricolin | time's up | 16:00 |
| ricolin | shall we move this back to heat:) | 16:00 |
| zaneb | by all means | 16:01 |
| ricolin | thanks all:) | 16:01 |
| ricolin | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 7 16:01:54 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2017/heat.2017-06-07-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2017/heat.2017-06-07-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2017/heat.2017-06-07-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
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