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| portdirect | #startmeeting openstack-helm | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 15:00:34 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is portdirect. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm' | 15:00 |
| portdirect | hey folks, lets give it a few mins for people to arrive | 15:00 |
| itxaka | \o | 15:00 |
| itxaka | o/ | 15:00 |
| portdirect | the agenda is here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2019-09-24 | 15:00 |
| lamt | o/ | 15:00 |
| itxaka | \o/ | 15:01 |
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| portdirect | itxaka: good to have you back :D | 15:01 |
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| stevthedev | o/ | 15:01 |
| jsuchome | o/ | 15:01 |
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| srwilkers | o/ | 15:02 |
| megheisler | \o | 15:03 |
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| howell | o/ | 15:04 |
| portdirect | ok - lets get going | 15:04 |
| roman_g | o/ | 15:04 |
| portdirect | #topic Make probe configs its own key in values? | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Make probe configs its own key in values? (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:05 | |
| portdirect | itxaka: floor is yours | 15:05 |
| itxaka | yay! | 15:05 |
| itxaka | mainly what it says, currently the config for the probe options is mixed together with the pod policies, which in some cases makes it difficult to find them and to see what the values are | 15:05 |
| itxaka | not only that but we use an ugly way of printing them to the values which if I could I would burn because they are totally unreadable | 15:06 |
| itxaka | I value readability over commodity and tbh, htk is full of terrible unreadable things | 15:06 |
| itxaka | so seeing that the probe function was recently introduced, I would propose a different approach to the probes that you can see on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/683220/ | 15:07 |
| itxaka | just a simple key for them and a toyaml in the templates | 15:07 |
| itxaka | no more 300 chars functions that you need to look up and decipher from htk to understand what they do | 15:08 |
| portdirect | theres a lot to unpack here | 15:08 |
| portdirect | and i certainly am no fan of the sprawl of gotpl we have in htk | 15:08 |
| portdirect | but we also need to consider some of the other aspects as to why we got here | 15:09 |
| portdirect | we maintain a huge number of charts in this project | 15:09 |
| portdirect | and key to our success is constency in configuration input to them | 15:10 |
| portdirect | and also the ability to make improvements across the project simply | 15:10 |
| portdirect | the htk funcations as they are today enable this, and also allow us to improve uniformly as well | 15:10 |
| itxaka | mmmh... | 15:11 |
| itxaka | I do agree that for some parts of common functions htk is a godsend, because we can fix or improve something i one place and it gets propagated | 15:11 |
| itxaka | but for probes? | 15:11 |
| *** k_mouza_ has quit IRC | 15:11 | |
| jsuchome | is there a compromise possible? function in htk but not the crazy one as it is currently but something more like itxaka's proposal? | 15:12 |
| itxaka | is there something expected to change in the probe configuration that would warrant having a function (which actually just does toYaml) for this? | 15:12 |
| portdirect | itxaka: that case is accommodated for: https://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm-infra/blob/master/helm-toolkit/templates/snippets/_kubernetes_probes.tpl#L55 | 15:13 |
| itxaka | I do understand this on endpoints or dns or something that its complex | 15:13 |
| itxaka | but this is pretty straigthforward and it hurts my heart to see that complexity for no good reason | 15:14 |
| portdirect | a good example is neutron and nova, where in production environments we many need to change the probe to refelct operating condidtions | 15:14 |
| portdirect | also with a simple toyaml - how would you disable the probe if desired? | 15:14 |
| itxaka | if you disable the probe then you have bigger problems than complexity :p | 15:15 |
| portdirect | welcome to the real world :D | 15:16 |
| itxaka | thats actually a good point, I did not think of probe disabling as I would not expect anyone to actually disable a probe lmao | 15:16 |
| itxaka | ok, point taken, that kind of makes sense if you are crazy and disable probes | 15:17 |
| portdirect | itxaka: sometimes you need to as the world is full of crazy things | 15:17 |
| portdirect | eg recently we had a case where a site was using the fluent logger, which is blocking | 15:18 |
| itxaka | ok then its settled and I would die a little bit everytime that I use that function | 15:18 |
| portdirect | fluentd was down | 15:18 |
| jsuchome | that change (introducing this _kubernetes_probes.tpl) is quite new, if it is that needed, how did people disable probes before? | 15:18 |
| portdirect | we needed to disable the probes to stop the rot spreading | 15:18 |
| portdirect | now this is a bad edge case | 15:18 |
| itxaka | so the probe helper came from there? lmao | 15:19 |
| portdirect | but the sort of stuff that we can cope with through having a common well developed function | 15:19 |
| itxaka | still a good thing to have stuff that comes from real issues | 15:19 |
| portdirect | no - just an example of why having every chart differnt means we loose the benefit of having a common function | 15:19 |
| itxaka | +1 for me to move on from this issue as I consider it settled | 15:19 |
| itxaka | unless jsuchome has something to say about it? | 15:19 |
| portdirect | jsuchome: re your q - kubectl edit :screams: | 15:20 |
| jsuchome | I had hopes to see a code that even I can understand | 15:20 |
| jsuchome | ah | 15:20 |
| portdirect | i think this convo raises a really good point though | 15:21 |
| itxaka | I thought you could not disable probes via kubectl edit :o | 15:21 |
| portdirect | itxaka: you can do anything with a big enough hammer | 15:21 |
| portdirect | you can though for all but statefulsets | 15:22 |
| portdirect | `no more 300 chars functions that you need to look up and decipher from htk to understand what they do` | 15:22 |
| portdirect | ^ this is so true | 15:22 |
| itxaka | yeah tpl is terribleeeee | 15:22 |
| portdirect | and somthing we need to solve for | 15:22 |
| portdirect | I'll put it on the agenda for next week - and lets see if we can think of better ways in the mean time? | 15:22 |
| itxaka | +1 | 15:23 |
| jsuchome | I would just think that if disabling is the main issue, there might be a chance to make it possible with simpler method ... but I do not have specific idea now, so let's move on | 15:23 |
| portdirect | #topic Time to make zuul RELEASE-OS jobs voting? | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Time to make zuul RELEASE-OS jobs voting? (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:24 | |
| portdirect | itxaka: your up :D | 15:24 |
| itxaka | me again? | 15:24 |
| itxaka | yeah what it says, not much to expand | 15:24 |
| portdirect | i think its time | 15:25 |
| itxaka | should we already move those into voting? Its been a long time with no progress there | 15:25 |
| itxaka | some may be broken and we are just ignoring them | 15:25 |
| itxaka | and we are already running them, what a waste of good resources! | 15:25 |
| portdirect | yeah - i think we should get a ps in today to flip them, unless anyone objects | 15:25 |
| itxaka | yay |o/ | 15:26 |
| portdirect | ok - lets do it itxaka and jsuchome :D | 15:26 |
| itxaka | yay yay \o/ | 15:26 |
| itxaka | whos sending the ps? | 15:26 |
| portdirect | im excited - finally get suse voting, and a less historic openstack release | 15:26 |
| portdirect | itxaka: you ok with pusing it? | 15:27 |
| itxaka | yup! | 15:27 |
| portdirect | or jsuchome - then we can both get it in | 15:27 |
| itxaka | suse, ubuntu or all of them? Or several separated patches? | 15:27 |
| jsuchome | sorry I wasn't following, I could (so itxaka can use his +2), but I'll leave the honors of creating PS to him | 15:28 |
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| portdirect | roger - thanks | 15:28 |
| portdirect | ok - lets move on | 15:28 |
| portdirect | #topic Was there a plan to unite various (bash) deployment scripts? | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Was there a plan to unite various (bash) deployment scripts? (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:28 | |
| jsuchome | (I think if they are stable anough, let's do them all in one patch) | 15:28 |
| portdirect | jsuchome: agreed | 15:29 |
| portdirect | also i think this is you? | 15:29 |
| jsuchome | yes: so, I remember that some time ago we voluntered to work on those deployment scripts | 15:29 |
| * itxaka runs | 15:29 | |
| jsuchome | but then I think someone had an AI to lay out some plans first | 15:29 |
| jsuchome | so I was wondering, if there's a specific plan, or if I could just start digging and propose something... | 15:30 |
| portdirect | jsuchome: i put a few thoughts in the etherpad | 15:30 |
| jsuchome | yeah, and also evrardjp said he used to have some ideas about this some time ago, I'm not sure if it went in the same direction | 15:30 |
| portdirect | but i think its high time we pruned a lot of the old scripts that are gathering dust | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | yeah let's clean everything ! | 15:31 |
| itxaka | +1 | 15:31 |
| portdirect | jsuchome: it went in a very similar direction to what evrardjp was proposing, just in bash rather than ansible | 15:31 |
| jsuchome | so basically the plan is to take developer + multinode scripts and combine them with component ones? | 15:31 |
| portdirect | though he can keep me honest there | 15:31 |
| jsuchome | and he's alive! (evrardjp) | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | (in another meeting) | 15:32 |
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| evrardjp | (sorry) | 15:32 |
| portdirect | jsuchome: that would seem like the best place to start | 15:32 |
| jsuchome | ok then, I'll try to start there | 15:32 |
| itxaka | everything merged *and* in ansible? Is this a dream? | 15:32 |
| portdirect | w00t - that would be great jsuchome | 15:32 |
| portdirect | itxaka: steady now | 15:33 |
| jsuchome | I did not promise ansible itxaka! | 15:33 |
| itxaka | :( | 15:33 |
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| itxaka | I read ansible somewhere and got excited | 15:33 |
| * jsuchome whispers there's not enough chef in this ecosystem... | 15:33 | |
| portdirect | i think we should be looking to add over-rides to allow the `component` scripts to forfil the same functions as the developer and multinode ones do today | 15:33 |
| * portdirect would like some puppet | 15:34 | |
| itxaka | omg stop it | 15:34 |
| itxaka | portdirect: like with the features I guess? | 15:35 |
| itxaka | so multinode would be a feature? | 15:35 |
| itxaka | "feature" in the sense of feature gates and overrides of course | 15:35 |
| portdirect | itxaka: i think so | 15:36 |
| itxaka | +1 | 15:36 |
| portdirect | unless we want multinode to be the default, and 'singlenode' to be the (anti) feature? | 15:36 |
| itxaka | do we expect other that POCs and Developers to deploy single node deployments? | 15:37 |
| itxaka | IMO should test the most common scenario | 15:37 |
| portdirect | i think to be honest - single node is the most common senario | 15:37 |
| itxaka | then single node as the default should be | 15:37 |
| portdirect | so perhaps leave it that way to simplify people starting out? | 15:38 |
| jsuchome | hm, most common senario for playing around, but production? | 15:38 |
| portdirect | oh my - so production is hard - in that we (putting work hat on) typically run >20 replicas of apis etc | 15:39 |
| portdirect | and other config params that would rule out anything other than large(ish) deployments | 15:39 |
| jsuchome | you mean you don't even use those scripts? | 15:39 |
| itxaka | well mostly the difference between 2 and 20 replicas is not much rigth? | 15:40 |
| portdirect | not for production no | 15:40 |
| itxaka | is most about the single pod vs multipod (no matter the number) deployments | 15:40 |
| portdirect | for that id reccomend a datacenter lifecycle tool like (wait for it) | 15:40 |
| portdirect | ... | 15:40 |
| portdirect | airship | 15:40 |
| itxaka | nooooo | 15:40 |
| jsuchome | and here we are | 15:40 |
| jsuchome | ok, so it's settled, multinode is the feature that needs to be turned on | 15:41 |
| portdirect | sounds good | 15:41 |
| portdirect | #topic Release notes? Abandoned? Enforced? Ignored? | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release notes? Abandoned? Enforced? Ignored? (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:42 | |
| itxaka | ah I just moved that below because I dont want us to run out of time for roman_g topic | 15:42 |
| portdirect | ah - ok, lets come back to this | 15:42 |
| portdirect | 2 sec | 15:42 |
| portdirect | #topic Zuul Promote jobs are failed, logs are hidden | 15:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zuul Promote jobs are failed, logs are hidden (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:43 | |
| portdirect | roman_g: floor is yours | 15:43 |
| roman_g | Just wanted to say that jobs failed | 15:44 |
| roman_g | AFAIK we don't have notification for post merge jobs | 15:44 |
| roman_g | I'm guessing if this is normal, or is it being taken care of already, or I can request logs and investigate | 15:45 |
| roman_g | ? | 15:45 |
| roman_g | Promote jobs | 15:45 |
| roman_g | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/672678/ | 15:45 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: is our resident sme in this area | 15:46 |
| itxaka | you it would be nice to be able to see those logs while filtering any secrets in there otherwise its a black box | 15:46 |
| roman_g | That's hist patch, btw :) | 15:46 |
| roman_g | *his | 15:46 |
| itxaka | evrardjp is currently on a meeting so he wont be available unfortunately :/ | 15:47 |
| portdirect | when hes escaped, you we ok to discuss this in #openstack-helm? | 15:47 |
| itxaka | +1 | 15:48 |
| portdirect | ok - thanks for bringing this up roman_g and also digging into it | 15:49 |
| portdirect | lets take it to the channel when evrardjp is around | 15:49 |
| portdirect | #topic Release notes? Abandoned? Enforced? Ignored? | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release notes? Abandoned? Enforced? Ignored? (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:49 | |
| roman_g | itxaka: I would be gone home in 20 min. or so. Couldn't participate, but highlight me if needed, I will read tomorrow. | 15:49 |
| itxaka | As it says, we dont have much movement in release notes so I wonder what should we do. Do we want to start -1 ps with no release notes for important stuff or we just go ahead and fully ignore them? | 15:50 |
| itxaka | roman_g will do, thanks! | 15:50 |
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| lamt | I was thinking about reno the other day as there is a lot of network policies work inflight - but since we don't have any "releases" per se, it feels like additional administrative work. | 15:51 |
| jsuchome | that seems like a good idea, but what is "important stuff" ? | 15:51 |
| roman_g | what product manager decides to be important | 15:52 |
| portdirect | i'm inclined to agree with lamt | 15:52 |
| portdirect | in that at the moment it generates admin overhead, that im not sure pays off | 15:52 |
| portdirect | untill we can at least solve the problem of `what is "important stuff"` | 15:52 |
| itxaka | agreed | 15:53 |
| portdirect | so im inclined to say ignore for now? | 15:53 |
| lamt | ++ | 15:53 |
| itxaka | +1 | 15:54 |
| portdirect | #topic the long lost, and partly forgotten openstack-objects chart | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the long lost, and partly forgotten openstack-objects chart (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:55 | |
| itxaka | yay | 15:55 |
| itxaka | so there may be some work coming for that | 15:55 |
| itxaka | as there has been some recent interest on it | 15:55 |
| portdirect | awesome! | 15:55 |
| itxaka | so its not fully forgotten but pretty down in the backlog | 15:55 |
| portdirect | yes - it would tie in nicely to the gate pruning as well | 15:55 |
| itxaka | that point was just a informative note | 15:55 |
| portdirect | ok - thanks dude | 15:56 |
| portdirect | #topic Helm3 plans | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Helm3 plans (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:56 | |
| itxaka | me again | 15:56 |
| portdirect | we wont have time for all of this today | 15:56 |
| portdirect | but in summary - we dont have any direct plans at this time | 15:56 |
| portdirect | as the charts will all work with helm3 | 15:56 |
| jsuchome | have you seen that video? Is it worth watching? | 15:56 |
| itxaka | indeed we dont, some guy just filled up the topic etherpad | 15:57 |
| portdirect | itxaka: and thats why we love you | 15:57 |
| itxaka | what about the library charts? any plan to move htk into that? | 15:57 |
| itxaka | mostly interested in that | 15:57 |
| portdirect | itxaka: we should, as htk was very much one of the drivers behind that feature ;D | 15:57 |
| itxaka | oooh | 15:58 |
| evrardjp | library charts I guess | 15:58 |
| portdirect | it would also be a good time to address if possible some of the concerns raised at the start of the meeting | 15:58 |
| evrardjp | (catching up) | 15:58 |
| portdirect | in that when we move to a library chart, we should also clean up htk | 15:58 |
| itxaka | moving to lua? | 15:59 |
| portdirect | rather than take it all with us | 15:59 |
| portdirect | thats a possible outcome | 15:59 |
| portdirect | i think it would be good to have howell involved in these convos to | 15:59 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: that sounds fair, but how will you make sure you don't break customers, as you don't have stable versioning yet ? | 15:59 |
| itxaka | ٩( ๑╹ ꇴ╹)۶ | 15:59 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: with great care ;D | 15:59 |
| evrardjp | and a lot of shas! | 15:59 |
| evrardjp | :) | 16:00 |
| portdirect | lol | 16:00 |
| portdirect | we should def start next week on this topic | 16:00 |
| portdirect | thats all the time we have today folks - thanks so much for coming | 16:00 |
| portdirect | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| itxaka | (ʘ‿ʘ)╯ | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 16:00:33 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-09-24-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-09-24-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-09-24-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| stevthedev | Have a good week everybody | 16:01 |
| evrardjp | I read week-end | 16:01 |
| stevthedev | Agh | 16:01 |
| stevthedev | If only | 16:01 |
| evrardjp | exactly | 16:01 |
| evrardjp | :) | 16:01 |
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