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| portdirect | #startmeeting openstack-helm | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 21 15:00:17 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is portdirect. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm' | 15:00 |
| evrardjp | o/ | 15:00 |
| howell | o/ | 15:00 |
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| megheisler | \o | 15:00 |
| portdirect | hey all - the agenda is here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2019-05-21 | 15:00 |
| itxaka | o/ | 15:00 |
| portdirect | very light this week | 15:00 |
| mfuller_ | o/ | 15:00 |
| portdirect | lets give it 5 mins for people to roll up | 15:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 15:01 |
| portdirect | though i expect this one may be quite light as many people are in bcn for kubecon | 15:01 |
| georgk | hi | 15:01 |
| srwilkers | o/ | 15:01 |
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| mattmceuen | o/ | 15:01 |
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| alanmeadows | o/ | 15:03 |
| georgk | quick question: who of you is at KubeCon - for a short chat | 15:03 |
| evrardjp | I am not | 15:04 |
| georgk | everybody is hiding... :-) | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | I am back at work as well :) | 15:05 |
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| itxaka | me neither :( | 15:05 |
| portdirect | ok lets go | 15:06 |
| portdirect | #topic tempest prerequisites from scripts to init containers | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tempest prerequisites from scripts to init containers (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:06 | |
| itxaka | today its all me :) | 15:07 |
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| itxaka | so this was brougth up with our airship team, they find it quite a pain to do an automated airhship deployment that includes tempest because we are doing automated things in our deployment scripts to deploy a working tempest chart | 15:08 |
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| itxaka | and the idea was brougth up to explore having those prerequisites be a part of the init containers of tempest to provide a full unmaned deployment of the tempest chart by passing just values | 15:08 |
| portdirect | what would the container do? | 15:09 |
| evrardjp | and how do you test the idempotency impact on said change on the chart? | 15:09 |
| itxaka | create network+subnetwork basically | 15:10 |
| itxaka | and obtain the ids for the other needed components (only the image id I believe) | 15:10 |
| itxaka | *correction: and flavor id | 15:10 |
| portdirect | for the 2nd point ++ | 15:10 |
| evrardjp | what is the second point? | 15:11 |
| portdirect | for the 1st, kinda ok with it - though with this not be better suited to being either in the boostrap job for the neutron chart | 15:11 |
| evrardjp | having those at init containers? | 15:11 |
| portdirect | or a generic heat driven 'openstack objects chart' | 15:11 |
| itxaka | basically whats in here: https://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm/blob/f9231d720c2299c5d85f614c2e1787599b069199/tools/deployment/multinode/900-tempest.sh | 15:11 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: point 1: `create network+subnetwork basically` point 2: `obtain the ids for...` | 15:12 |
| itxaka | so we can have a tempest deployment like the other charts, just passing values to the chart | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | ok | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | point 1 can be a part of the bootstrap neutron or tempest itself? | 15:12 |
| itxaka | mmmh using neutron to bootstrap any nets is also a good idea< | 15:12 |
| portdirect | i wonder if this: https://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm/blob/f9231d720c2299c5d85f614c2e1787599b069199/tools/deployment/multinode/900-tempest.sh#L22-L43 | 15:12 |
| portdirect | should become its own chart | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | that's what I suggested | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | but then you have to pass values around for next chart | 15:13 |
| itxaka | not really, you can store them in a shared configmap no? | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | which means introspection of the first chart values or things like that, which sounds not really clean | 15:14 |
| portdirect | id avoid that | 15:14 |
| evrardjp | itxaka: exactly | 15:14 |
| itxaka | and tempest can try to use those value if exists? | 15:14 |
| portdirect | itxaka: i'd avoid configmap deps across charts | 15:14 |
| evrardjp | it's still not great | 15:14 |
| portdirect | it gets super ugly | 15:14 |
| evrardjp | convention over configuration can help here IMO | 15:14 |
| * itxaka is thankful to not have experience there :D | 15:14 | |
| portdirect | but if you have the names, then you init container can get the ids.. | 15:14 |
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| portdirect | so the info to pass as values becomes super simple | 15:15 |
| itxaka | I think that havin the neutron bootstrap creating networks is a really great and clean idea | 15:15 |
| itxaka | its useful in a lot of different scenarios | 15:15 |
| itxaka | not only for this | 15:15 |
| itxaka | then the init containers for tempest can just try to get the existing ids for those values only | 15:16 |
| evrardjp | I like the idea of automatically having not a bootstrap but another job to add some networks | 15:16 |
| itxaka | so its simpler to maintain | 15:16 |
| evrardjp | and those can indeed contain tempest networks | 15:16 |
| evrardjp | and with convention, re-use those in tempest helm chart | 15:16 |
| portdirect | this is what we did for ironic | 15:16 |
| portdirect | eg: https://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm/blob/master/ironic/templates/bin/_retreive-cleaning-network.sh.tpl#L21-L25 | 15:16 |
| portdirect | and a job to create if not already in existance | 15:17 |
| portdirect | https://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm/blob/master/ironic/templates/bin/_manage-cleaning-network.sh.tpl | 15:17 |
| portdirect | which could be transfered over to tempest pretty simply | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | so you mean a change in the tempest helm chart | 15:18 |
| itxaka | I dont even think we would need a job to create, that seems to fall out of a chart territory.... | 15:18 |
| itxaka | like neutron chart should do network stuff, tempest should do tempest | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | I am fine with either neutron or tempest tbh | 15:18 |
| portdirect | itxaka: i agree | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | but not as a separate chart which shares the data between with the help of configmaps | 15:19 |
| evrardjp | or others | 15:19 |
| portdirect | though in some places the neutron boostrap job etc has limitations - eg with visibility | 15:19 |
| evrardjp | could you clarify this? | 15:19 |
| portdirect | hence why im suggesting that perhaps we build a openstack-object cart that just drives a heat template | 15:19 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: yeah - people dont know to look for it :) | 15:20 |
| portdirect | and also inter service work is hard | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: oh I misunderstood you -- you want to regroup ALL the activities under one roof? | 15:20 |
| portdirect | no | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | and conditionally trigger things? | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | ok | 15:20 |
| portdirect | use the boostrap job for boostrapping the service | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | I didn't quite catch what's your end state you desire then | 15:20 |
| itxaka | bootstrap seems like a win win to me | 15:20 |
| portdirect | and have a chart that can creqte higher level objects | 15:20 |
| itxaka | now its me the one that got lost | 15:21 |
| itxaka | so no bootstrap jobs but a chart that creates all desired objects in teh deployment? | 15:22 |
| portdirect | both - use boostrap where required | 15:22 |
| portdirect | but a chart that can then be used above that to create deployed artifacts scross the cloud | 15:23 |
| portdirect | eg - boostrap can not create say a collection of glance images, neutron networks and nova vms sanely | 15:23 |
| portdirect | but can prepare all those services to do so | 15:23 |
| portdirect | and a higher level chart then has value of orchestrating these 'primed' services | 15:24 |
| itxaka | why cant bootstrap create a collection of objects related to its own chart? | 15:24 |
| portdirect | it can | 15:24 |
| itxaka | it also sounds like reinventing heat :p | 15:24 |
| portdirect | no - its using heat ;) | 15:24 |
| portdirect | <portdirect> Pete Birley or a generic heat driven 'openstack objects chart' | 15:24 |
| itxaka | should chats be self contained? like everything from glance should eb done on the glance chart? | 15:25 |
| itxaka | chats lmao | 15:25 |
| itxaka | *charts :D | 15:25 |
| srwilkers | yeah, i think that's the point being made here | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | I like the idea of being self-contained too | 15:25 |
| itxaka | maybe someone isnt deploying heat but still wants some images to be there | 15:25 |
| portdirect | charts have to be self contained | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | srwilkers: I think the message is not crossing the atlantic | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | :) | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: I guess the question is where to put the line on "when/how" to use this chart leveraging heat cli | 15:26 |
| portdirect | i can boil it down to this i think: | 15:26 |
| portdirect | 1) bootstrap script to boosstrap a service | 15:27 |
| portdirect | 2) heat template in a chart to bootstrap a cloud | 15:27 |
| portdirect | we have 1 today | 15:27 |
| portdirect | we could do with 2 | 15:27 |
| evrardjp | ok let me rephrase this | 15:27 |
| evrardjp | see if I got it | 15:27 |
| srwilkers | ultimately, the chart portdirect is talking about would be to do things that require creating objects that span the multiple services in our cloud (ie: i need to create some networks, some images, and whatever else for people/tempest/whatever to consume). it doesn't make sense to have a job specific to tempest create things like networks and images that it needs to consume | 15:28 |
| srwilkers | which is why it'd be nice to have a chart that simply leverages heat to do this for us | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | 1) bootstrap will only be used to "get started" with the service, and anything happening after service setup is delegated elsewhere. | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | I don't agree on the fact that "it doesn't make sense to have a job specific to tempest to create things tempest needs" | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | that's exactly the point of the bootstrap jobs? | 15:29 |
| portdirect | re 1 - yes | 15:29 |
| evrardjp | ok I understood the line/border | 15:29 |
| evrardjp | the border makes sense to me | 15:29 |
| evrardjp | it's clear to explain to people and document | 15:29 |
| portdirect | re 2 - on the fence, i'd not block it - but here it would make more sens i think to seperate the concerns - as tempest is a test suite | 15:30 |
| portdirect | 2 being `it doesn't make sense to have a job specific to tempest to create things tempest needs` in this case | 15:30 |
| * srwilkers shrugs | 15:30 | |
| alanmeadows | The other item worth mentioning | 15:31 |
| itxaka | ok, so then its kind-of agreed that for creating objects in a cloud, an extra chart would be needed that leverages heat to create those objects | 15:31 |
| itxaka | with the only goal of that chart is bringing the deployed cloud to a user required state | 15:31 |
| portdirect | itxaka: that would be the best path i think | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | alanmeadows: yes? | 15:31 |
| itxaka | not just to use tempest but as a boostrap cloud kind of chart | 15:31 |
| alanmeadows | is if you use bootstrap to actually "set up your cloud" rather than just do whats absolutely necessary to have that service up you'll end up with piecemeal data fed into dozens of different charts that will be hard to visualize/manage | 15:32 |
| portdirect | hence my visibility comment earlier | 15:32 |
| alanmeadows | that actually probably blongs in one place (e.g. how I setup openstack for my users) | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | I think we were in agreement to not set things to "set up your cloud" in bootstrap :) | 15:32 |
| itxaka | agreed | 15:32 |
| portdirect | just to throw things off again - the one q i have is heat or shade? | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | the focus point here was to setup the requirements for tempest. If we consider the setup the requirements part of the "set up your cloud" or if tempest chart itself would be setting up its requirements itself | 15:34 |
| portdirect | i think proabably heat, though it does depend in it - but a q worth asking | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | you probably mean sdk | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | anything idempotent works for me | 15:34 |
| itxaka | heat I think althougth falling back to openstackclient in case of no heat may be worth discussing | 15:35 |
| itxaka | but who doesnt install heat! | 15:35 |
| srwilkers | the same people who thought the game of thrones ending was good | 15:35 |
| evrardjp | this is why SDK would not be a bad idea | 15:35 |
| itxaka | oh lmao | 15:35 |
| gagehugo | haha | 15:35 |
| itxaka | shots fired | 15:35 |
| mfuller_ | hahaha | 15:35 |
| evrardjp | srwilkers: haha | 15:35 |
| portdirect | itxaka: here i dont think we want to offer a choice - if we go heat - inject raw heat as values. | 15:35 |
| * itxaka adds srwilkers to good guys list | 15:35 | |
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| srwilkers | why do you think i came all this way itxaka? | 15:36 |
| itxaka | portdirect: sounds good! | 15:36 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: i ment shade here | 15:36 |
| portdirect | but favor heat | 15:36 |
| itxaka | I think that making it clear that this requires heat would make the chart simpler | 15:36 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: actually i take that back - but still favor heat | 15:36 |
| portdirect | :) | 15:36 |
| portdirect | so shall we do it itxaka ? | 15:37 |
| portdirect | im down. | 15:37 |
| alanmeadows | probably the i-configure-openstack-chert should just support a few values? provide your uber heat stack here, openstackclient values here, shade values here? | 15:37 |
| alanmeadows | then the end user can do what they please? | 15:37 |
| evrardjp | I think the openstacksdk is more self contained and provide the same value, but it's up to the committer to decide | 15:37 |
| alanmeadows | as long as, as evrardjp says, its idempotent | 15:37 |
| portdirect | alanmeadows: wfm | 15:38 |
| evrardjp | alanmeadows: you could have been belgian with your sense of the compromise there | 15:38 |
| itxaka | lmao | 15:38 |
| alanmeadows | well in this case, supporting "all the things" isn't that much work | 15:38 |
| alanmeadows | ;-) | 15:38 |
| itxaka | wfm | 15:38 |
| evrardjp | things can also grow organically | 15:38 |
| itxaka | so heat first then openstackclient then shade? | 15:38 |
| portdirect | itxaka: sounds good | 15:39 |
| itxaka | yaya | 15:39 |
| portdirect | heat > bash > python ;P | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | openstackclient will be tedious to make idempotent, but up to you | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: cannot compute that line | 15:39 |
| portdirect | no one can - its why its perfect | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | I cannot compute* | 15:39 |
| * itxaka adds portdirect to the bad guys list | 15:39 | |
| * portdirect strokes white cat | 15:40 | |
| * evrardjp would like to see s/Arya/itxaka/ lists | 15:40 | |
| portdirect | ok to move on? | 15:40 |
| evrardjp | are the action points taken? | 15:40 |
| evrardjp | ok for me to move on | 15:41 |
| itxaka | last item, if you have a good name for it please write it down | 15:41 |
| itxaka | Im bad at names | 15:41 |
| itxaka | so I will use alanmeadows one if there is no better suggestions :P | 15:41 |
| srwilkers | a chert has no name | 15:41 |
| itxaka | i-configure-openstack-chert | 15:41 |
| portdirect | cloudstrap | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | srwilkers: stop it! :p | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: that's a trademark? | 15:42 |
| evrardjp | if not I should totally make taht a trademark | 15:42 |
| portdirect | might be :( | 15:42 |
| itxaka | already taken | 15:42 |
| portdirect | openstack-objects may be the best, though most borning name | 15:42 |
| evrardjp | the project name is openstack-helm | 15:43 |
| evrardjp | for those who don't follow | 15:43 |
| evrardjp | should we move on though? | 15:43 |
| itxaka | +1 | 15:43 |
| itxaka | oh wow that took a long time | 15:44 |
| portdirect | #topic meeting times ( http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-May/006381.html ) | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "meeting times ( http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-May/006381.html ) (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:44 | |
| itxaka | so I put that in there but was just because the mail is on the list and I didnt see too many replies | 15:44 |
| itxaka | maily a heads up to people | 15:44 |
| itxaka | mainly* | 15:44 |
| itxaka | +1 to move on | 15:44 |
| evrardjp | good reminder | 15:45 |
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| portdirect | thx itxaka | 15:45 |
| evrardjp | jayahn: will thank you for it :) | 15:45 |
| portdirect | #topic versioning of helm charts -- spec status | 15:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "versioning of helm charts -- spec status (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:45 | |
| evrardjp | just wondering where we are there | 15:45 |
| portdirect | so im behind here - and need to get a draft of this up | 15:45 |
| portdirect | but have something thats close to being push-able | 15:46 |
| evrardjp | ppl can only start to work on things when the spec will be merged | 15:46 |
| evrardjp | it's just a reminder | 15:46 |
| evrardjp | next topic | 15:46 |
| evrardjp | ? | 15:46 |
| portdirect | #topic gates changes -- spec status | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gates changes -- spec status (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:47 | |
| portdirect | evrardjp: you added this one i think | 15:47 |
| evrardjp | yes | 15:48 |
| evrardjp | I think we discussed some improvements in gates in the past. I had a series of patches long ago that always ended up in merge conflicts, so I dropped them all. IIRC, there was a spec that was supposed to be out, what's the status? | 15:48 |
| portdirect | theres not been discussion of a spec that i can rememebr | 15:49 |
| portdirect | but srwilkers and I were going to look at the gates prior to ptg - and have still to do so | 15:49 |
| portdirect | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2019-04-23 | 15:49 |
| portdirect | so we should get back on that | 15:49 |
| evrardjp | ok, I thought the result of that look was a spec | 15:49 |
| evrardjp | my bad. | 15:50 |
| portdirect | no worries - a spec would certainly help this process | 15:50 |
| portdirect | so we should consider one following the poc | 15:50 |
| itxaka | portdirect: is the poc close or far away? maily to write it down on the etherpad | 15:50 |
| portdirect | i think its just a case of srwilkers and i finding 4 hours to do it | 15:51 |
| evrardjp | no need to really have specs for the purpose of having specs though, but documenting the reasons we decided to do that way, is useful | 15:51 |
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| portdirect | evrardjp: exactly++ | 15:51 |
| evrardjp | reviews? :D | 15:52 |
| evrardjp | ovs-dpdk could deserve some love! :p | 15:52 |
| portdirect | #topic reviews | 15:53 |
| evrardjp | but I am getting ahead of myself here | 15:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:53 | |
| portdirect | as always a long list of things that could do with some love: | 15:53 |
| portdirect | Reviews: | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://pasted.tech/l/1701e85c296214b4 (or long url: https://review.opendev.org/#/q/project:%255Eopenstack/openstack-helm.*+owner:%22Jean-Philippe+Evrard+%253Cjean-philippe%2540evrard.me%253E%22++is:mergeable++is:open ) | 15:53 |
| portdirect | OVS-DPDK | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/659581/ - workflow | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/626894/ - reviews from cores appreciated | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/643284/ - reviews from cores appreciated | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/651060/ - reviews from cores appreciated | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/659351/ - reviews from cores appreciated | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/659787/ - mysql: set hostpath for mysql-data (fixes zuul jobs) | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/659557/ - ceph: bump kubernetes version for ceph images | 15:53 |
| portdirect | - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/650523/ - Migrate ubuntu jobs from Xenial to Bionic (important for gating) | 15:53 |
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| evrardjp | the first one is very important to us, but not as important as fixing the zuul jobs :D | 15:54 |
| portdirect | for the dpdk work - it would be good to see this gated | 15:54 |
| georgk | yes, evrardjp mentioned this already | 15:54 |
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| georgk | i need to see if I get DPDK working in the virtualized Openstack infra | 15:54 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: maybe not gated, but at least CI tested first? It still need some things to merfe first | 15:54 |
| portdirect | that would be great georgk | 15:55 |
| evrardjp | merge* | 15:55 |
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| georgk | is that a prerequisite for gettting this merged? | 15:55 |
| portdirect | ci tested would be | 15:55 |
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| evrardjp | portdirect: but this is very special | 15:55 |
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| evrardjp | (if we don't have the hardware) | 15:55 |
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| portdirect | evrardjp: we can get 3rd party ci i think for this | 15:56 |
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| evrardjp | 3rd party ci will never gate | 15:56 |
| evrardjp | it can vote but that's the max | 15:56 |
| evrardjp | (on purpose) | 15:56 |
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| portdirect | but im not sure why we could not run in -infra? | 15:56 |
| georgk | as I said, I need to check | 15:57 |
| evrardjp | let me rephrase this -- we can have 3rd party CI voting, and I think that's an option we should follow if we can't do things in infra | 15:57 |
| georgk | I'll probably poke some of you who have better insight into this | 15:57 |
| portdirect | georgk: i think deepak would be great here | 15:58 |
| evrardjp | but I also believe that this has value merged even without the testing yet. (Because there could be chicken and egg things) | 15:58 |
| evrardjp | (for example, the image building of dpdk should be merged before) | 15:58 |
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| evrardjp | but that's my personal opinion, I am no one here :p | 15:58 |
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| georgk | right, we need to address the images | 15:59 |
| evrardjp | out of time | 15:59 |
| portdirect | thanks everyone! | 16:00 |
| portdirect | see you all in the channel | 16:00 |
| portdirect | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 21 16:00:36 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-05-21-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-05-21-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-05-21-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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