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| portdirect | #startmeeting openstack-helm | 15:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 22 15:02:41 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is portdirect. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm' | 15:02 |
| portdirect | lets give it a few mins for people to join | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | o/ GM | 15:02 |
| howell | o/ | 15:03 |
| portdirect | Agenda here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2019-01-22, add away :D | 15:03 |
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| georgk | o/ | 15:04 |
| dimitris_ | o/ | 15:04 |
| dwalt | o/ | 15:04 |
| nick_kar | o/ | 15:05 |
| portdirect | ok - lets kick off | 15:05 |
| portdirect | #topic docs-repo | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs-repo (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:06 | |
| portdirect | so theres been some great work tring to the the docs repo up and running - though im wondering if we are trying to run, before we walk | 15:06 |
| portdirect | I have given this a -2 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/625853/5 | 15:06 |
| portdirect | though am prepared to be told thats not appropriate | 15:07 |
| portdirect | i thought we would do this in a phased approach 1) bring over exisiting docs un altered, 2) restructure | 15:07 |
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| portdirect | though this attempts to do both in one pass | 15:07 |
| portdirect | which makes it very hard (at least for me) to see whats changed etc | 15:08 |
| portdirect | so more process than intent ;) | 15:08 |
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| portdirect | not sure if any of the people working on that are here, so i may just be shouting incoherently atm :D | 15:08 |
| mattmceuen | +1 for splitting to two steps - that makes sense to me too | 15:09 |
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| portdirect | ok - lets move on unless anyone else has anything to add - seems bad to discuss to much without Jaesang Lee around - whos put a lot of effort into this | 15:10 |
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| portdirect | #topic Helm 3 | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Helm 3 (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:10 | |
| portdirect | so howell has been doing some poc work with helm 3 | 15:10 |
| portdirect | and doing cool things like deploying memcached with it | 15:11 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: mmm | 15:11 |
| portdirect | howell: you able to give a update on where helm3 is? eg lua etc | 15:11 |
| howell | Sure | 15:11 |
| howell | last i checked, it's stil quite a ways down the road | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | on previous topic I believe it's easier to do the things right in the proper place first, then increase the amount of content to match the proper structure | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | but ok | 15:12 |
| howell | the lua library API is still being developed, so lua hooks aren't working at all yet | 15:12 |
| howell | https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/5084 | 15:12 |
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| jayahn | o/ | 15:13 |
| howell | further, there isn't much of a timeline on when things will start to be useable :/ | 15:13 |
| mattmceuen | that's interesting howell - does that mean helm 3 is not usable at all now, or just usable in more simple use cases? | 15:14 |
| mattmceuen | o/ jayahn! | 15:14 |
| howell | it's usable. it is pretty limited though | 15:14 |
| portdirect | howell: at this point is the same (or greater) sprig version supperted as helm2? | 15:15 |
| portdirect | *supported | 15:15 |
| howell | i beleive so, but i'd have to double check | 15:16 |
| portdirect | i think that would be awesome - then once a alpha binary starts being published we could explore again | 15:16 |
| mattmceuen | evrardjp: given the state of helm 3, sounds like doing this POC-style is the right way/ right place to do this, if it's not ready to introduce into OSH. Do you disagree? | 15:16 |
| portdirect | though I think you are planning on getting much more involved upstream there? ;) | 15:16 |
| howell | planning on it :) | 15:17 |
| evrardjp | mattmcemaI was talking about previous topic, I can't judge on that helm3 part. Did you really want to ping me there? :) | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | mattmceuen: * | 15:18 |
| portdirect | i think we can circle back to that (docs) at the end of the meeting if jayahn is around? | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | portdirect: lgtm | 15:18 |
| jayahn | i will be around | 15:19 |
| portdirect | nice - all done on helm3 - aka the future of OSH | 15:19 |
| evrardjp | mattmceuen: helm-tng interests me though :) | 15:19 |
| mattmceuen | Ah - I gotcha now evrardjp. Mis-parsed ya :) | 15:19 |
| portdirect | so onwards to the next topic - this meeting should perhaps be renamed the howell show this week | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | :) | 15:20 |
| howell | haha :) | 15:20 |
| portdirect | #topic kubernetes-entrypoint - whats going on there? | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kubernetes-entrypoint - whats going on there? (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:20 | |
| howell | so I've been making some updates to kubernetes-entrypoint | 15:20 |
| portdirect | howell: i think you have been doing some k8s-entrypoint work recently? | 15:20 |
| howell | Firstly, the tool now supports Custom Resource Dependencies. Custom Resource Depedendencies use arbitrary key and "desired" value pairs. | 15:20 |
| howell | Secondly, I've added an option to print all unresolved dependendencies as machine-readable JSON. | 15:21 |
| portdirect | ok - so lets peel that back a bit | 15:21 |
| portdirect | CRD support, what and why? | 15:22 |
| evrardjp | howell: "the tool" is not easy to understand for people without context, but that's maybe because I am new to this project | 15:22 |
| howell | right. getting ahead of myself | 15:22 |
| srwilkers | o/ | 15:22 |
| srwilkers | sorry im late | 15:22 |
| portdirect | howell: i think evrardjp has a good point | 15:22 |
| portdirect | we have been in osh so long - we forget the very basic concepts | 15:22 |
| portdirect | lets start with what is k8s-entrypoint | 15:22 |
| portdirect | and how do we use it today in osh | 15:22 |
| howell | so kubernetes-entrypoint is used to wait on dependencies | 15:23 |
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| howell | that is, if a pod A is dependendent on pod B, kubernetes-entrypoint will prevent A from starting until B is finished | 15:23 |
| portdirect | we use this concept to orchestrate everything in osh | 15:24 |
| portdirect | driven by the dependences section and a helm toolkit function | 15:24 |
| portdirect | lets take a simple service - eg keystone | 15:24 |
| portdirect | https://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm/blob/master/keystone/values.yaml#L104-L114 | 15:24 |
| evrardjp | yup I've seen it around, but I think the important part is that it's our own thing, and that we have to maintain things forward. If deployers need to be aware of changes,we need to notify those in meetings, which is what's happening here | 15:24 |
| evrardjp | correct? | 15:25 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: its not our own thing | 15:25 |
| portdirect | its intels | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | ok | 15:25 |
| srwilkers | it's been around awhile, we just take advantage of it and provide updates along the way | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | thanks for the clarification! | 15:25 |
| portdirect | we, stackentes, and kolla-k8s all uses it as the foundation for openstack on k8s | 15:25 |
| howell | up until recently, the tool has supported pods, services, daemonsets, and a handful of other kubernetes builtins | 15:25 |
| portdirect | anyway back to the 101 | 15:25 |
| portdirect | in the link i put above, you see the deps for the keystone api service | 15:26 |
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| portdirect | it needs: a migrated db, and a lod of other things done - which we do via k8s jobs | 15:26 |
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| portdirect | and also some services to be up and ready - which are, suprise sprise, services in a k8s | 15:27 |
| portdirect | world | 15:27 |
| portdirect | the container runs as in init container in each osh pod | 15:27 |
| portdirect | and waits for the jobs to be complete, and services to be up before exiting | 15:27 |
| portdirect | thus orchestrating across the cluster | 15:27 |
| portdirect | back to you howell | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | thanks for that :) | 15:28 |
| howell | anyway, i've recently added support for CRDs | 15:28 |
| howell | that is, "wait until some arbitrary key has some arbitrary value" | 15:29 |
| howell | *of a crd | 15:29 |
| portdirect | for those that may not know - what produces/works with crds in k8s? | 15:29 |
| * portdirect buzzword incomming | 15:30 | |
| howell | operators | 15:30 |
| howell | so it will work with operators such as rook | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | :) | 15:30 |
| portdirect | and anything else ;D | 15:30 |
| * mattmceuen imagines movie preview voice saying "operators" | 15:30 | |
| georgk | one quick question in this regard: | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | howell: good job there | 15:31 |
| georgk | does this not overlap with Armada in some functionaly? | 15:31 |
| georgk | also: noob question | 15:31 |
| jayahn | howell: that would be helpful! | 15:31 |
| howell | it'll also work nicely with creatign DAGs with argo | 15:31 |
| howell | thanks :) | 15:31 |
| portdirect | and howell is planning to prototype that for openstack service management :D | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | howell: I will ask a lesson on argo in the #openstack-helm channel, I took enough time already. | 15:32 |
| portdirect | so it will be pretty exciting to see that progess, and if it has legs | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | sorry to ask one more question there howell: What is the idea behind bringing that? I mean it's obviously a very positive change, but there is probably something you have on your mind that I cannot see on the roadmap | 15:33 |
| howell | it's not on the roadmap, because we aren't sure if it's a good idea or not yet | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | ok, for the moment it's just opening possible doors | 15:34 |
| portdirect | exactly | 15:34 |
| howell | yes | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | should that change, I think it's worth mentioning in a meeting | 15:35 |
| portdirect | oh - 100% it would be a big change | 15:35 |
| portdirect | but also - untill we try it - have no idea if it will be any good | 15:35 |
| portdirect | so very early days - and i think best to do these things fully in the open | 15:35 |
| evrardjp | agreed | 15:36 |
| portdirect | so we can collectivly evaluate approaches | 15:36 |
| portdirect | k8s is still young, and evolving fast | 15:36 |
| jayahn | we are talking about trying argo? (just want to followup) | 15:36 |
| portdirect | talkign about a very simple poc | 15:37 |
| portdirect | i think 'pre-trying' at this stage | 15:37 |
| jayahn | okay, :) | 15:37 |
| portdirect | one thing that has come out of this though that we clearly need to do a better job on | 15:37 |
| portdirect | #action anyone document k8s-entrypoint | 15:37 |
| howell | i can work on documentation if needed | 15:38 |
| portdirect | howell: i think you would be a great person to do that | 15:38 |
| portdirect | alon with evrardjp, as he gets openstack requirements like very few people i know | 15:39 |
| portdirect | *along | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | I am fine with helping on that side with you howell | 15:39 |
| portdirect | georgk: not forgotten your question | 15:39 |
| georgk | portdirect: that´s fine, we can take it later | 15:40 |
| portdirect | none of this really overlaps with armada | 15:40 |
| portdirect | as they have two different objectives, k8s entrypoint deals with deps etc within a chart, while armada orchestrates charts themselves | 15:40 |
| portdirect | its this loose coupling, that allows osh (and those that came before it) to both be very resilient and self contained at a service level | 15:41 |
| georgk | portdirect: ok, got it. Thanks | 15:42 |
| portdirect | while armada allows the deployment and configuration of these serices to be tied together in a chohertent fasion | 15:42 |
| evrardjp | very good patterns | 15:42 |
| portdirect | (and once you are there, the rabbit hole opens - deckhand alows the config to be managed etc...) | 15:42 |
| jayahn | yeah. | 15:43 |
| portdirect | howell: one last thing - you also added machine readable output to k8s entrypoint | 15:43 |
| howell | yes. k8s-entrypoint currently has some human-readable logging output on stdout | 15:43 |
| portdirect | the hope here is that tooling - eg lma will be able to tap into this and give faster/simpler insight into the state of the cluster | 15:44 |
| evrardjp | that's interesting | 15:44 |
| portdirect | so operators can at a glance see why a service, such as say glance, is not working | 15:45 |
| srwilkers | i see what you did there | 15:45 |
| * portdirect is here all week | 15:45 | |
| howell | booo | 15:46 |
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| portdirect | ok to move on? | 15:46 |
| georgk | :q | 15:47 |
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| portdirect | #topic Reminder: Open Infra Summit talk submissions due 11:59 PT tomorrow! | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Open Infra Summit talk submissions due 11:59 PT tomorrow! (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:47 | |
| mattmceuen | ^^ | 15:47 |
| portdirect | thanks mattmceuen for reminding us | 15:47 |
| jayahn | yeah, thank for the reminder. | 15:47 |
| evrardjp | there should be forum sessions to organise after the call for summit presentations, right? | 15:48 |
| evrardjp | then ofc the ptg sessions | 15:48 |
| jayahn | usually, i remember | 15:48 |
| srwilkers | yeah | 15:48 |
| jayahn | 6 days.. | 15:48 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: yup | 15:48 |
| portdirect | really happy to see the events back to back | 15:49 |
| srwilkers | me too | 15:49 |
| portdirect | almost like the forum | 15:49 |
| portdirect | though i better not say that out loud | 15:49 |
| srwilkers | hush hush | 15:49 |
| portdirect | i'm planning on submitting a workshop with alanmeadows | 15:50 |
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| jayahn | first week of May.. really worst timing ever for Korean... | 15:50 |
| portdirect | where we use some airship components along with osh to bring up and a small cloud | 15:50 |
| portdirect | jayahn: how come? | 15:50 |
| evrardjp | I guess holidays? | 15:51 |
| jayahn | first week of May involves labor day (holiday) and children's day (also holiday) | 15:51 |
| evrardjp | we have labor day too here. We can complain together there jayahn | 15:51 |
| jayahn | usually k-12 gives short vacation for the children | 15:51 |
| portdirect | jayahn: bring them | 15:51 |
| evrardjp | I will give you a beverage of your choice to forget it | 15:51 |
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| jayahn | lol | 15:52 |
| portdirect | anyway - should we revisit docs for a bit? | 15:52 |
| srwilkers | i'm looking forward to the timing -- i thought about passing on flying out there and riding a motorcycle out there instead | 15:52 |
| srwilkers | and taking a few days to ride around the rockies | 15:52 |
| jayahn | docs | 15:52 |
| portdirect | #topic docs round 2 | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs round 2 (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:52 | |
| jayahn | i thought restructuring was an important priority on doc-repo. | 15:53 |
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| portdirect | so - the original plan i thought was to work on struture, then bring content over from the existing repo,a nd the great stuff skt has done | 15:53 |
| jayahn | and, somewhat agree on evrardjp | 15:53 |
| portdirect | it looks like thigs have jumped right in | 15:53 |
| portdirect | so this morning i proposed that if the desire is to get a large body of content in - this should be done as it | 15:54 |
| portdirect | *as is | 15:54 |
| portdirect | and then resutureing in a follow on ps | 15:54 |
| portdirect | an alternative approach would be to have a ps laying out the struture, and then populating with content once we have that down | 15:54 |
| portdirect | im just worried that as it stands today - theres too many parts moving at once to sanly review | 15:55 |
| portdirect | *sanely | 15:55 |
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| jayahn | okay, that probably true. (theres too many parts moving at once to sanly review) | 15:55 |
| portdirect | so - are you ok with getting a ps up to simply define the desired layout | 15:56 |
| evrardjp | so what I did when I refactored large chunks of content in the docs of a project, I pretty much did the structure with no document in it, then quickly add, topic by topic, in the right place | 15:56 |
| portdirect | and once we have that - start filling it with content? | 15:56 |
| portdirect | evrardjp: i think that approach makes most sense | 15:56 |
| jayahn | okay, i do agree on that | 15:56 |
| jayahn | having ps up to define the desired layout first | 15:57 |
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| evrardjp | on top of that all your downstream content would be easily importable patch per patch... | 15:57 |
| evrardjp | jayahn: you want me to push that structure up? | 15:57 |
| jayahn | evrardjp: yeap, that would be great :) | 15:58 |
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| evrardjp | I'd rather let you do it:p | 15:58 |
| evrardjp | oh ok | 15:58 |
| evrardjp | I guess I am volunteer then | 15:58 |
| jayahn | ah.. we can do it as well, | 15:58 |
| jayahn | but i guess anyone available to do it can do it. | 15:59 |
| evrardjp | let's sync on the chan then | 15:59 |
| portdirect | hey - about to run out of time | 15:59 |
| portdirect | see you all in the channel | 16:00 |
| portdirect | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 22 16:00:08 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-01-22-15.02.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-01-22-15.02.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2019/openstack_helm.2019-01-22-15.02.log.html | 16:00 |
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| evrardjp | thanks everyone | 16:04 |
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