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| Jeffrey4l | #startmeeting kolla | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 30 16:00:27 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Jeffrey4l. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 16:00 |
| Jeffrey4l | #topic rollcall | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:00 | |
| bmace | o/ | 16:00 |
| gema | o/ | 16:00 |
| yankcrime | o/ | 16:00 |
| caoyuan | o/ | 16:00 |
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| duonghq | o/ | 16:01 |
| Chason_ | o/ | 16:01 |
| Jeffrey4l | #topic Announcements | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:01 | |
| Jeffrey4l | no news from my. any news from community? | 16:02 |
| Jeffrey4l | ok. move on | 16:03 |
| ktibi_ | o/ | 16:03 |
| Jeffrey4l | #topic vancouver summit | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "vancouver summit (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:03 | |
| Jeffrey4l | the summit is done. | 16:03 |
| Jeffrey4l | since i am absent the summit. | 16:04 |
| Jeffrey4l | there is not much thing from me about this. | 16:04 |
| Jeffrey4l | but from the kolla ops feedback session, seem it is not bad | 16:04 |
| * Jeffrey4l is find the etherpad link | 16:04 | |
| Jeffrey4l | here it is | 16:05 |
| Jeffrey4l | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-rocky-ops-and-user-feedback | 16:05 |
| Jeffrey4l | There are several production env deployed by kolla | 16:05 |
| Jeffrey4l | good to know | 16:05 |
| Jeffrey4l | they also mentioned the kolla cli part | 16:06 |
| Jeffrey4l | seems it is attractive | 16:06 |
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| Jeffrey4l | feel free to take the concern by the operator, and try to implement or fix it in kolla :D | 16:08 |
| Jeffrey4l | and thanks pbourke and spsurya to hold this | 16:08 |
| gema | what would a kolla client do? | 16:09 |
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| bmace | right now the client does a lot of things so you don't have to hand edit files, like updating properties, and manipulating the inventory | 16:09 |
| Jeffrey4l | there is no detail info on the etherpad. | 16:09 |
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| Jeffrey4l | bug i guss just like bmace's kolla-cli does | 16:10 |
| Jeffrey4l | but* | 16:10 |
| yankcrime | kolla-cli is here: https://github.com/openstack/kolla-cli | 16:10 |
| bmace | well, it isn't mine, it is the communities now :) | 16:10 |
| Jeffrey4l | yeah, definitely. | 16:10 |
| gema | thanks | 16:10 |
| yankcrime | and kayobe is here: https://github.com/openstack/kayobe | 16:11 |
| Jeffrey4l | they also talked the check and diff mode. | 16:11 |
| Jeffrey4l | kolla do not support this. | 16:11 |
| Jeffrey4l | But please review this https://review.openstack.org/568422, which trying to fix the gap | 16:11 |
| bmace | right, i need to add some blueprints but have some ideas on how to support this, and config versioning in the cli | 16:12 |
| Jeffrey4l | upgrade is another one important area we should improve. including upgrade from other deploy envrionment. | 16:13 |
| Jeffrey4l | for the latter one, any guys know who did this successfully? | 16:13 |
| *** ktibi_ is now known as ktibi | 16:14 | |
| gema | improve how? | 16:14 |
| gema | what are we not doing? | 16:14 |
| Jeffrey4l | docs about how to upgrade. | 16:14 |
| gema | Jeffrey4l: we have a pending brownfield upgrade | 16:14 |
| gema | still in the process of deploying from scratch one of the clouds | 16:14 |
| Jeffrey4l | great. | 16:15 |
| gema | is there a procedure to do upgrades? | 16:15 |
| gema | as in, an expected / defined way to do it? | 16:15 |
| ktibi | For now kolla upgrade just container but maybe operator need upgrade of system too like docker version, kernel, ... supported by kolla ? | 16:15 |
| Jeffrey4l | iirc dreamhost tried to upgrade to kolla from brownfield. But don't know the result. | 16:15 |
| gema | Jeffrey4l:ok, we'll try to document it | 16:15 |
| gema | we are also going from newton to queens | 16:16 |
| gema | so it'll be rocky :P | 16:16 |
| Jeffrey4l | gema, there is no special. just need get new images. and kolla-ansible. then update the globals.yml, and try upgrade. | 16:16 |
| gema | Jeffrey4l: ack, so that is documented | 16:16 |
| gema | we just need to document the brownfield one | 16:16 |
| Jeffrey4l | i tried upgrade from newton to ocata / ocata to pike, which works fine. | 16:16 |
| gema | Jeffrey4l: we cannot do such upgrade | 16:16 |
| gema | we have to jump | 16:16 |
| gema | no useful images on ocata or pike for us | 16:16 |
| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, yes. | 16:17 |
| Jeffrey4l | ffu? | 16:17 |
| gema | yes | 16:17 |
| Jeffrey4l | it should work. but i haven't tried it. | 16:17 |
| gema | we'll let you know | 16:17 |
| ktibi | and maybe need to add a rollback docs too ? | 16:17 |
| Jeffrey4l | is every openstack service support this? | 16:17 |
| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, rollback is hard.. | 16:17 |
| yankcrime | not all openstack services (currently) support ffu | 16:17 |
| yankcrime | some have done historically i.e keystone | 16:18 |
| Jeffrey4l | the db can not be downgrade, unless you backup it. | 16:18 |
| yankcrime | that's true in pretty much all cases | 16:18 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, if an upgrade fail ?? | 16:18 |
| gema | no worries, we'll do backups | 16:18 |
| yankcrime | rollback is database restore and then restart old versions of containers | 16:18 |
| gema | that's the only thing I know for sure we need to do | 16:18 |
| gema | before starting | 16:18 |
| gema | that and announcing an outage of a week :D | 16:18 |
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| Jeffrey4l | kolla should implement the ffu for upgrade process. | 16:18 |
| yankcrime | fwiw we've done upgrades from o -> p -> q without much drama | 16:19 |
| yankcrime | and also run mixed releases of services | 16:19 |
| gema | Jeffrey4l: there are a lot of conversations ongoing about ffus upstream | 16:19 |
| yankcrime | i.e magnum and keystone on q, rest on p | 16:19 |
| gema | I have been to a few in the different PTGs | 16:19 |
| Jeffrey4l | yankcrime, yeah, that should work. need be documented too. | 16:19 |
| Jeffrey4l | i think one ffu is done, openstack could have a kind of lts version ;D | 16:20 |
| yankcrime | Jeffrey4l: with the right testing infrastructure in place the process would almost be self-documenting... | 16:20 |
| duonghq | ktibi, there is no service support downgrade yet, | 16:20 |
| duonghq | regarding ffu, in general, OpenStack services do not support this | 16:20 |
| duonghq | at least for configuration migration | 16:20 |
| Jeffrey4l | yankcrime, think about downgrade ceph.. it may impossible for some service. | 16:20 |
| ktibi | duonghq, yes of course, but with a backup of DB you can rollback no ? | 16:21 |
| yankcrime | Jeffrey4l: i'm thinking about only openstack services | 16:21 |
| duonghq | operator need to do it by theirself, db is ok | 16:21 |
| yankcrime | with things like ceph, yes - almost certainly impossible for any sizeable deployment | 16:21 |
| duonghq | ktibi, and you'll lost some data if you do it in zero-downtime/rolling upgrade/minimal downtime manner | 16:21 |
| Jeffrey4l | for openstack service , it should be OK to downgrade with a db backups. | 16:22 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, yes so maybe somes service like ceph or elasticsearch need to have their own upgrade procedure. uncorrelated with upgrade of openstack service no ? | 16:22 |
| duonghq | offline upgrade maybe just fine | 16:22 |
| yankcrime | if you test you'll also fine you can run newer versions of database schema for some services with older version of application | 16:22 |
| yankcrime | *find | 16:22 |
| Jeffrey4l | But it will be full of tricks and hacks. | 16:22 |
| gema | ktibi: yes | 16:22 |
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| ktibi | duonghq, i prefer to have rollback instead of zero-downtime | 16:23 |
| duonghq | ktibi, the requirement is different case-by-case | 16:24 |
| Jeffrey4l | if we only talk about openstack service, the upgrade may not be failure. the only issue may happen the db upgrade failed. but i think it wil be fixed easy. | 16:24 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, hum, If you upgrade but you include a new bug ? | 16:25 |
| Jeffrey4l | i would like fix the bug rather than roll back. | 16:26 |
| Jeffrey4l | roll back is more dangoure. | 16:26 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, yes but you think like a dev, not like a ops ^^ | 16:27 |
| Jeffrey4l | for this point, i think we could provide docs to explain how to backup, and how to rollback step by step. even we could provide some shell scripts to do such thing. | 16:27 |
| Jeffrey4l | but i do not think add a command like "kolla-ansible rollback" is a good idea. | 16:28 |
| Jeffrey4l | i am a devops :D | 16:28 |
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| ktibi | A ops who update during the night, start tempest after upgrade (success) and have 90 fails, you think he can fix the bug ? :p | 16:28 |
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| ktibi | no just a doc I think :) | 16:29 |
| yankcrime | on the subject of backups, i did look at adding that functionality a while back - a new container image for percona-xtrabackup and an additional command to kolla-ansible that creates a new volume containing backup of mariadb | 16:29 |
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| yankcrime | there's a blueprint for the feature somewhere | 16:29 |
| yankcrime | it doesn't handle backup lifecycle though, so no scheduling and no xfer of backup to any other target | 16:30 |
| Jeffrey4l | yankcrime, why a new volume? how about just cp -r volumes/mariadb? | 16:30 |
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| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, that just my thoughts. if you could provide a good solution for "kolla-ansible rollback", that will be cool. | 16:31 |
| yankcrime | Jeffrey4l: without stopping the service? | 16:31 |
| Jeffrey4l | yankcrime, you are saying backup mariadb periodic, right? | 16:31 |
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| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, I think DB backup restore + restore old image can be good. But need to stop all actions on your plateform during the upgrade. | 16:32 |
| yankcrime | Jeffrey4l: ad-hoc | 16:32 |
| Jeffrey4l | yankcrime, kolla have a cron container, which we could reuse. ad-hoc backup is nice to have | 16:32 |
| Jeffrey4l | this is also talked during ptg. | 16:33 |
| yankcrime | Jeffrey4l: you won't get a consistent backup if you just copy the volume | 16:33 |
| Jeffrey4l | sorry, i understood in wrong. yes, need percona-xtrabackup to do adhoc backup. | 16:33 |
| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, yes. and need care about some service like mq / db / ceph etc | 16:34 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, yes, it's almost obligatory to create a upgrade procedure just for service like ceph.... | 16:35 |
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| Jeffrey4l | yeah.. so feel free to improve this ;) | 16:39 |
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| Jeffrey4l | could we move on? any thing about the summit? | 16:40 |
| yankcrime | for the backup stuff, as there's a few moving parts, what's the best way of getting something up for review? a mini spec? | 16:40 |
| Jeffrey4l | yeah, a mini spec is a good start. | 16:40 |
| yankcrime | ok, thanks | 16:40 |
| Jeffrey4l | ok. let us move on | 16:41 |
| Jeffrey4l | #topic open discussion | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:41 | |
| Jeffrey4l | any volunteer? | 16:41 |
| bmace | i would just like to quickly mention that Steve Noyes has done some great work to improve the cli testing, and it is at a point where if other people want to get involved, they are most welcome | 16:42 |
| bmace | right now the vagrant based kolla-ansible dev environment also included the cli by default | 16:42 |
| bmace | right now i am adding some python scripting so that rather than following the README process to get it working you can just run the script. | 16:43 |
| Jeffrey4l | great. thanks bmace and Steve | 16:43 |
| bmace | so far no non-cli cores seem to look at it at all, so Mark and I have been having to force through reviews, which is non optimal.. i am hoping eventually other cores might give the pending changes there a look occasionally | 16:43 |
| bmace | that is it from me. if anyone tries it and has questions or comments they are all welcome! | 16:44 |
| Jeffrey4l | thanks bmace | 16:45 |
| ktibi | I have question ;) | 16:45 |
| Jeffrey4l | hope the develop clould keep eyes on this . | 16:45 |
| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, please | 16:45 |
| ktibi | As everyone knows, redhat now uses kolla. Redhat has added a lot of new features like SSL on the internal network. RedHat uses a special docker version. For the moment kolla uses 1.12.6 which is not at all up to date. I think we should make an effort on the docker version deployed by kolla. What do you think ? | 16:45 |
| Jeffrey4l | fyi, they using 1.13.x now. | 16:46 |
| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, yeah, i tried to do this | 16:46 |
| Jeffrey4l | check https://review.openstack.org/533337 | 16:46 |
| ktibi | yes 1.13 is a fork of CE. I don't really know how their docker works >< | 16:46 |
| ktibi | but kolla need to be compatible with | 16:47 |
| ktibi | docker-ce no ? | 16:47 |
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| Jeffrey4l | i guess they do not wanna to follow docker-ce. and once oci is mature, they may move to it | 16:47 |
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| ktibi | and not with the redhat version ? | 16:47 |
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| Jeffrey4l | above patch trying to work with redhat version.. | 16:48 |
| Jeffrey4l | even though it is not merged ;( | 16:48 |
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| Jeffrey4l | technially, kolla works with docker 1.12.0 | 16:49 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, yep :) I try to works too but I think we need to take a decision. For centos we use docker-ce or redhat fork ? | 16:49 |
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| Jeffrey4l | just redhat version made a small change on the origial docker. | 16:49 |
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| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, in the gate, we use docker-ce. | 16:49 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, not really, live-restore no support, secret are very different, ... | 16:50 |
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| Jeffrey4l | i think this is a question for operator. | 16:50 |
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| Jeffrey4l | kolla do not dependes on live restore and secret( need to be disabled on redhat version ) | 16:50 |
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| ktibi | yes it was just for say the fork have a lot of diff with CE | 16:51 |
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| Jeffrey4l | ktibi, so we are trying to works on both. | 16:51 |
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| Jeffrey4l | as far as which one operator wanna to use, this is a choice for him :) | 16:52 |
| ktibi | Jeffrey4l, ok :) | 16:52 |
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| ktibi | so need to upgrade for gate or keep 1.12 ? | 16:53 |
| Jeffrey4l | for gate, we will try to use latest docker version. | 16:53 |
| ktibi | ok great, I am working on 17.12.1 | 16:54 |
| Jeffrey4l | cool. 17.09 is most used in my company :D | 16:54 |
| Jeffrey4l | ok. time is almost up. | 16:56 |
| Jeffrey4l | let us end the meeting. | 16:56 |
| Jeffrey4l | thank every for comming | 16:56 |
| Jeffrey4l | have a good day/night | 16:56 |
| Jeffrey4l | #endmeeting | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 30 16:56:44 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2018/kolla.2018-05-30-16.00.html | 16:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2018/kolla.2018-05-30-16.00.txt | 16:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2018/kolla.2018-05-30-16.00.log.html | 16:56 |
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