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| yedongcan | o/ | 14:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| ivc_ | o/ | 14:09 |
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| alraddarla | o/ | 14:10 |
| mchiappero | o/ | 14:10 |
| garyloug | o/ | 14:10 |
| limao | o/ | 14:10 |
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| mchiappero | uhm... let's try with the left \o | 14:13 |
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| ivc_ | #startmeeting kuryr | 14:17 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 20 14:17:08 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ivc_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:17 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kuryr)" | 14:17 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kuryr' | 14:17 |
| ivc_ | hi everyone | 14:17 |
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| ivc_ | #topic kuryr-libnetwork | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kuryr-libnetwork (Meeting topic: kuryr)" | 14:18 | |
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| ivc_ | #chair apuimedo | 14:20 |
| openstack | Warning: Nick not in channel: apuimedo | 14:20 |
| openstack | Current chairs: apuimedo ivc_ | 14:20 |
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| apuimedo | ivc_: ping | 14:21 |
| ivc_ | #chair apuimedo | 14:21 |
| openstack | Current chairs: apuimedo ivc_ | 14:21 |
| ivc_ | fixed :) | 14:21 |
| apuimedo | sorry for the delay. I couldn't find a room in the PTG | 14:22 |
| apuimedo | :P | 14:22 |
| apuimedo | did we already go over kuryr-kubernetes? | 14:22 |
| mchiappero | no | 14:22 |
| ivc_ | nop. i've changed topic to kuryr-libnetwork and was checking the patches that might need discussion :) | 14:22 |
| apuimedo | ah, very well | 14:23 |
| apuimedo | well. For kuryr-libnetwork I was expecting people to bother cores last week as the freeze was last wednesday | 14:23 |
| apuimedo | since that didn't happen... | 14:23 |
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| apuimedo | #action apuimedo to go over the outstanding patches and send an email to the mailing list about which to get to the release | 14:24 |
| alraddarla | apuimedo: i beg to differ. I believe I bothered you a few times :) | 14:24 |
| apuimedo | alraddarla: You are the only one. And I have bad conscience of not having had the time to go over it | 14:24 |
| apuimedo | I'll do it after this meeting | 14:25 |
| alraddarla | I've heard that before | 14:25 |
| apuimedo | now that I'm in Atlanta I have all the day in front of myself | 14:25 |
| alraddarla | :P Just kidding | 14:25 |
| apuimedo | guilty as charged | 14:25 |
| apuimedo | alraddarla: did you get a chance to look at the floating ip apis for kuryr-k8s? | 14:25 |
| alraddarla | yes i looked through the docs and some of the patch sets you mentioned | 14:26 |
| apuimedo | if anybody has more stuff on kuryr-libnetwork, speak now or forever hold your peace | 14:26 |
| apuimedo | or until next week | 14:26 |
| apuimedo | alraddarla: cool | 14:26 |
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| apuimedo | if you have questions on the kuryr-k8s patches ivc_ and I will try to help with that | 14:26 |
| apuimedo | #topic fuxi | 14:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fuxi (Meeting topic: kuryr)" | 14:26 | |
| apuimedo | hongbin sent me his updates | 14:27 |
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| * apuimedo finding the email | 14:27 | |
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| apuimedo | #info Fuxi is preparing the first release. hongbin was trying to setup the release jobs and release notes for that | 14:28 |
| apuimedo | #info The patches to be be taken for the release: | 14:28 |
| apuimedo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435737/ | 14:28 |
| apuimedo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435626/ | 14:29 |
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| apuimedo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435741/ | 14:29 |
| apuimedo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435746/ | 14:29 |
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| apuimedo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/399296/ | 14:29 |
| apuimedo | #action apuimedo: limao: irenab: to get the above merged | 14:29 |
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| apuimedo | #topic kuryr-kubernetes | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kuryr-kubernetes (Meeting topic: kuryr)" | 14:30 | |
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| apuimedo | ivc_: or did we cover kuryr-kubernetes already? | 14:30 |
| ivc_ | no | 14:30 |
| alraddarla | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433250/ Just needs workflow | 14:30 |
| ivc_ | and i'm waiting for reply on k8s lbaas service patch :) | 14:31 |
| ivc_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433359/ | 14:31 |
| apuimedo | alraddarla: merged | 14:31 |
| apuimedo | :-) | 14:31 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: you mean on the discussion with ltomasbo? | 14:32 |
| ivc_ | apuimedo yes, and your comments too | 14:32 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: very well. I'll get to that then after the meeting | 14:33 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: I want to make the endpoint code configurable | 14:33 |
| ivc_ | apuimedo what do you mean? | 14:33 |
| apuimedo | whether it should make members for endpoints not in the pods subnet | 14:33 |
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| ivc_ | oh that, i knew it was coming when you tried openshift router :) | 14:34 |
| apuimedo | Considering that it may be necessary for "infra" pods like dns | 14:34 |
| apuimedo | as well | 14:34 |
| apuimedo | the thing is, since we do not run kube-proxy | 14:34 |
| ivc_ | lets do it in another patch maybe? | 14:34 |
| apuimedo | the cluster IPs that we do not define | 14:34 |
| apuimedo | as LBs | 14:34 |
| apuimedo | are not reachable at all | 14:35 |
| apuimedo | I think we should do this (maybe even as deafult) so we can support kuryr pods accessing hostnetwork pods | 14:35 |
| ivc_ | yes, there's 1 TODO/REVISIT note that has to be addressed before we can use non-ClusterIP (i.e. non-Pod) endpoints | 14:36 |
| apuimedo | very well | 14:36 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: I suppose work on the third services patch is waiting for closure on the current patch, right? | 14:36 |
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| ivc_ | apuimedo not rly, i've started working on it | 14:38 |
| * ivc_ does not expect many (if any) changes in driver patch | 14:38 | |
| apuimedo | ivc_: very well | 14:39 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: easy review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/399296/ | 14:39 |
| ivc_ | apuimedo isn't that fuxi? | 14:40 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: wrong paste https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435205/ | 14:40 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435903/1 | 14:40 |
| apuimedo | I deleted firefox for some breakage and I'm finding it hard to get used not to have my vimperator shortcute | 14:41 |
| apuimedo | *shortcuts | 14:41 |
| ivc_ | apuimedo last i checked there was -1 from tests. | 14:41 |
| ivc_ | but its green now. i'll check | 14:41 |
| apuimedo | good | 14:41 |
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| ivc_ | i think those logging imports were leftovers from debugging | 14:42 |
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| apuimedo | #info vikasc ltomasbo and apuimedo worked on a demo of OpenShift with Kuryr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKZryuTH4B0 which is what the earlier discussion about 'infra' pods was about | 14:42 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: :-) | 14:43 |
| ivc_ | apuimedo isn't https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435903/1 conflicting with openstack proposal bot? | 14:43 |
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| apuimedo | ivc_: that's what I'd suppose. Since you usually can't merge them. But I wonder if they made an exception | 14:44 |
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| apuimedo | so my position is: Try to merge, if it fails, contact infra | 14:44 |
| ivc_ | i just merged one earlier today https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433250/ | 14:44 |
| ivc_ | wrong link | 14:44 |
| ivc_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431967/ | 14:44 |
| ivc_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431967/ | 14:45 |
| ivc_ | apuimedo i mean we dont need to manually create patches for things that are managed by openstack proposal bot | 14:45 |
| apuimedo | #info slides to the demo before. If anybody wants the diagrams for trunk port or anything else, let me know. I have the svgs http://www.slideshare.net/celebdor/openshift-on-openstack-with-kuryr | 14:46 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: I know | 14:46 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: I'll check if it is really an exception or we can expect the bot to post this | 14:47 |
| ivc_ | apuimedo i've rebased that patch and now its just empty :) so i think it should be abandoned | 14:48 |
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| apuimedo | great | 14:50 |
| apuimedo | ivc_: feel free to do so | 14:50 |
| apuimedo | you have the power! | 14:50 |
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| * ivc_ feels the powah! | 14:51 | |
| apuimedo | :D | 14:51 |
| apuimedo | #topic general | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general (Meeting topic: kuryr)" | 14:51 | |
| apuimedo | #info apuimedo is at the PTG and we'll discuss on wednesday about tripleo kolla helm integration | 14:51 |
| apuimedo | for both deployment and also for having kuryr-kubernetes be deployed by those tood | 14:52 |
| apuimedo | *tools | 14:52 |
| apuimedo | #info the VTG schedule is final and there is people to lead the sessions | 14:52 |
| alraddarla | do you have the link for that? | 14:52 |
| apuimedo | I'll send the invite to the mailing list with the bluejeans link | 14:53 |
| apuimedo | I have to create a meeting | 14:53 |
| apuimedo | in bluejeans to get a new url | 14:53 |
| apuimedo | I'll post it on the mailing list later | 14:53 |
| apuimedo | anything else? | 14:53 |
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| apuimedo | very well | 14:56 |
| apuimedo | Thank you all for joining | 14:56 |
| apuimedo | #endmeeting | 14:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 20 14:56:35 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kuryr/2017/kuryr.2017-02-20-14.17.html | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kuryr/2017/kuryr.2017-02-20-14.17.txt | 14:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kuryr/2017/kuryr.2017-02-20-14.17.log.html | 14:56 |
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| jimbaker | #startmeeting craton | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 20 15:00:26 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jimbaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| jimbaker | #chair sigmavirus sulo jimbaker thomasem | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'craton' | 15:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: jimbaker sigmavirus sulo thomasem | 15:00 |
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| jimbaker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/craton-meetings | 15:00 |
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| jimbaker | #topic Roll Call | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:00 | |
| jimbaker | o/ | 15:00 |
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| thomasem | o/ | 15:01 |
| git-harry | hi | 15:02 |
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| farid | o/ | 15:02 |
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| thomasem | #topic Action Items from Last Meeting | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items from Last Meeting (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:03 | |
| thomasem | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/craton/2017/craton.2017-02-16-17.02.html | 15:03 |
| thomasem | ACTION: thomasem to write BP regarding deployment as a starting point for iterating on a suggested deployment model | 15:04 |
| thomasem | Didn't get to it given other priorities. Carrying forward. | 15:04 |
| thomasem | #action ACTION: thomasem to write BP regarding deployment as a starting point for iterating on a suggested deployment model | 15:04 |
| thomasem | #undo | 15:04 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action ACTION: thomasem to write BP regarding deployment as a starting point for iterating on a suggested deployment model | 15:04 |
| thomasem | #action thomasem to write BP regarding deployment as a starting point for iterating on a suggested deployment model | 15:04 |
| thomasem | There we go | 15:05 |
| thomasem | ACTION: jimbaker to map Dusty's requirements to work or existing features of Craton, especially with respect to short-term deliverable (~2 weeks remaining) | 15:05 |
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| jimbaker | thomasem, still working on this action item | 15:05 |
| thomasem | #action jimbaker to map Dusty's requirements to work or existing features of Craton, especially with respect to short-term deliverable (~2 weeks remaining) | 15:05 |
| thomasem | ACTION: thomasem to review Dusty and Bjorn's stories/use-cases and add notes on concerns or questions | 15:06 |
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| thomasem | I finished up going through Björn's this morning and added several questions/concerns | 15:06 |
| thomasem | Will review Dusty's stuff as well and update tomorrow. | 15:07 |
| jimbaker | +1 | 15:07 |
| thomasem | #action thomasem to review Dusty stories and add notes on concerns or questions | 15:07 |
| thomasem | ACTION: sigmavirus to finish up testing on cli | 15:07 |
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| thomasem | I don't think sigmavirus is here, so we need to carry this forward, probably. | 15:07 |
| jimbaker | agreed. we can get back to it if sigmavirus joins us | 15:08 |
| thomasem | #action sigmavirus to finish up testing on cli | 15:08 |
| thomasem | Sounds good | 15:08 |
| thomasem | #topic Stand Up | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stand Up (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:08 | |
| thomasem | #info each team member briefly describes what they are working on this week, and describes blockers (if there are any) | 15:08 |
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| thomasem | #topic Stand Up :: jimbaker | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stand Up :: jimbaker (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:08 | |
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| jimbaker | variables support in client/CLI; refactor alembic for foreign key constrain setup; reviews | 15:09 |
| jimbaker | DONE | 15:10 |
| thomasem | #topic Stand Up :: thomasem | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stand Up :: thomasem (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:10 | |
| jimbaker | fwiw, there will be more than that | 15:10 |
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| thomasem | clouds resource (wiring it up through other resources, like how region was); two bugs related to projects resource links; use-cases/stories discussions for short-term deliverable; reviews | 15:11 |
| thomasem | done | 15:11 |
| thomasem | #topic Stand Up :: git-harry | 15:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stand Up :: git-harry (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:11 | |
| git-harry | adding /v1/devices endpoint for listing devices | 15:12 |
| git-harry | done | 15:12 |
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| thomasem | #topic Stand Up :: farid | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stand Up :: farid (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:14 | |
| farid | Gathered sample inventories to start loading into Craton, need to look into parsing/loading pieces. Client was buggy (seems to have been fixed? tb tested) | 15:16 |
| thomasem | +1 | 15:16 |
| thomasem | excellent | 15:16 |
| farid | o/ | 15:16 |
| jimbaker | farid, thanks. we will work through those bugs | 15:17 |
| farid | good deal, will try to see what else I come across as well | 15:17 |
| farid | done | 15:17 |
| thomasem | woot | 15:17 |
| thomasem | #topic This Week's Priorities | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "This Week's Priorities (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:17 | |
| jimbaker | thomasem, i think farid just highlighted this week's priorities | 15:17 |
| thomasem | Lol, is there an enumeration of the bugs? | 15:18 |
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| jimbaker | get inventories into craton; find and fix bugs that prevent such usage | 15:18 |
| thomasem | Gotcha | 15:18 |
| git-harry | Is someone actively working on the client to fix the pagination bug(s)? | 15:18 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, those would be our critical and high bugs | 15:18 |
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| jimbaker | git-harry, pagination hopefully is now fixed in client | 15:18 |
| jimbaker | but this is what sigmavirus worked on | 15:18 |
| jimbaker | i haven't pushed the envelope on pagination, but the simple case seems to work now | 15:19 |
| git-harry | excellant | 15:19 |
| jimbaker | eg hosts = list(craton.hosts.list()) | 15:19 |
| jimbaker | to be honest, i find that sort of awkward | 15:19 |
| git-harry | generator? | 15:20 |
| thomasem | If that's a generator, why not exhaust it while printing? | 15:20 |
| jimbaker | yeah, it's now a generator | 15:20 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, all valid | 15:20 |
| jimbaker | it's more that it's craton.hosts.list(various-filter-thingies) | 15:20 |
| thomasem | I guess because filtering and such. | 15:20 |
| jimbaker | which returns the generator | 15:21 |
| jimbaker | i think if it's called `list` | 15:21 |
| thomasem | Yeah | 15:21 |
| jimbaker | it should return a LIST | 15:21 |
| thomasem | Okay, what about craton.hosts.all()? :D | 15:21 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, could be a nice convenience iterator | 15:21 |
| thomasem | Just seems to sort of defeat the purpose if we put it all in memory like that. Of course, unless we're really at scale, will be a non-issue. | 15:22 |
| thomasem | Talking about drop in the well until we get to pretty high scales. | 15:22 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, i was going to add, a new convenience iterator for doing careful paginated DOS | 15:22 |
| jimbaker | ;) | 15:22 |
| thomasem | Hahahaha | 15:23 |
| thomasem | I suppose that would happen anyway with the list() if it's paginated. | 15:23 |
| git-harry | maybe add a bug and we can look at it in a few weeks | 15:23 |
| thomasem | Sure | 15:23 |
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| jimbaker | yeah, i don't think it matters very much. but i don't think we need `all` | 15:23 |
| thomasem | I was offering that up as an alternative since list() might confuse when it returns a generator. | 15:23 |
| jimbaker | what i would suggest is just have the `list` method return a `list` object | 15:23 |
| jimbaker | and we can bikeshed on what to call the other method | 15:24 |
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| thomasem | Yes. jimbaker, you want to add a bug about that? | 15:24 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, yeah, i will do that | 15:24 |
| thomasem | Or shall I? | 15:24 |
| thomasem | awesome thanks! | 15:24 |
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| thomasem | #action jimbaker add bug regarding list() method returning generator instead of list object in client library | 15:25 |
| jimbaker | +1 | 15:25 |
| thomasem | Alright, enumerating priorities: | 15:26 |
| thomasem | 1. Critical bugs | 15:26 |
| thomasem | No way... I can't link to the "bugs" page? | 15:27 |
| thomasem | nvm | 15:27 |
| thomasem | Got it | 15:27 |
| jimbaker | we can start with https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-cratonclient | 15:27 |
| thomasem | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-cratonclient | 15:27 |
| jimbaker | and filter on it accrodingly | 15:27 |
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| thomasem | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/craton | 15:27 |
| thomasem | Should we make those project link bugs a higher priority since pagination is basically broken otherwise? | 15:28 |
| thomasem | for projects | 15:28 |
| thomasem | And how does that compare to, say, clouds | 15:28 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, +1 | 15:28 |
| jimbaker | every resource collection should support pagination | 15:29 |
| thomasem | Right, so we'd probably put fixing that above clouds, since that's not an existing resource in master yet... correct? | 15:29 |
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| git-harry | If they're both required, does it matter? | 15:30 |
| jimbaker | agreed with git-harry - they are of equal priority | 15:30 |
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| thomasem | It does if it means CLI bugs can be fixed sooner. | 15:30 |
| thomasem | But, I get your point. | 15:31 |
| thomasem | Questioning it as a matter of dependency for others, is all. | 15:31 |
| jimbaker | ok | 15:31 |
| thomasem | Beyond that, I can do whatever order as long as they get fixed. | 15:31 |
| thomasem | Anyway, I will focus on clouds, then, since I'm already under the hood on that anyway. | 15:31 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, agreed | 15:32 |
| thomasem | Okay, so priorities are basically | 15:32 |
| jimbaker | from the CLI, it's the same abstract machinery to support. still need to robustly verify in our integration testing (no matter how formalized at this point) | 15:32 |
| thomasem | 1. python-cratonclient critical bugs now and those that come up throughout the week (As a result of us trying to get data imported into Craton deployment) | 15:33 |
| thomasem | 2. critical bugs on craton API itself | 15:33 |
| thomasem | Pretty much all the critical things. We need to finish up that /devices spec so git-harry isn't blocked. | 15:34 |
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| thomasem | git-harry: even so, do you feel you have enough agreement on that spec to get started on that work? | 15:35 |
| jimbaker | agreed at /v1/devices collection support | 15:35 |
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| git-harry | thomasem: I've made a start already. I will adjust what I've done if the spec changes. | 15:35 |
| thomasem | awesome, sounds good! | 15:35 |
| jimbaker | there seems to be some differences re how much the underlying modeling in the sqlalchemy should be exposed, but i assume minor | 15:35 |
| jimbaker | like device_type vs sub_type | 15:35 |
| thomasem | I'll do another review of that by EoD. | 15:35 |
| jimbaker | fwiw, i think if we go with some name changes like this, we should push into the sqlalchemy model | 15:36 |
| git-harry | that's what I've done | 15:36 |
| jimbaker | this is because at some point, we will want to support arbitrary sql usage of our model. and having two names for the same thing, this is not good | 15:37 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, this gets back into a conversation we might have had (tell me if i'm misremembring) | 15:37 |
| jimbaker | re sqlalchemy and object graphs; vs just sqlalchemy and doing interesting queries | 15:38 |
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| thomasem | We touched on it a bit, but I don't remember us going into great detail. | 15:38 |
| jimbaker | fortunately sqlalchemy supports both approaches | 15:39 |
| thomasem | You're referring to my dislike of ORMs? :) | 15:39 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, no worries, i just bring it up because it's in bjorn's reqs, that's all | 15:39 |
| jimbaker | in terms of being able to do analytics | 15:39 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, re ORMs - i hope you will like in the end what we have done here :) | 15:39 |
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| thomasem | Lol, it's all good. It's always "it depends". I'm hesitant to truly say I dislike them as a blanket statement. | 15:40 |
| jimbaker | i'm hoping we have the following: cake + eat it too | 15:40 |
| thomasem | If done well and conscientiously I'm sure it'll be fine. | 15:40 |
| thomasem | Anyway, I'll avoid going down that rabbit hole. | 15:41 |
| jimbaker | fwiw, i usually look a the model from just the mysql client when i'm debugging things | 15:41 |
| thomasem | Yeah, so... if we're expecting them to do analytics and such directly against the DB, hmmm.. | 15:41 |
| thomasem | So we really want that? | 15:41 |
| thomasem | s/So/Do/ | 15:41 |
| jimbaker | i think so | 15:41 |
| thomasem | Why? Kind of looking behind the curtain a bit and limits the versioning control that an API provides. | 15:42 |
| jimbaker | and i don't think it's going to be a bad thing either, since we can always view things from a table perspective in SA | 15:42 |
| thomasem | They're going to write things against a changing schema. | 15:42 |
| thomasem | Mmmm, it is a bad thing when it comes to expectations of support. | 15:42 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, oh sure. unless we write this stuff too | 15:42 |
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| thomasem | Classic way to get yourself in that sort of bind is setting the expectation that it's okay to query against the DB and ignore the API. | 15:43 |
| thomasem | What do you mean? We write it... for them? | 15:43 |
| thomasem | Isn't that basically what the API is for? | 15:43 |
| jimbaker | yes, we can add it to our API :) | 15:43 |
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| git-harry | Sorry, I'm losing track a bit, is this something we need to add in the next two weeks. | 15:44 |
| jimbaker | git-harry, no, it is not | 15:44 |
| thomasem | I don't know, actually. Again, the use-cases as they map to short-term requirements are vague at best. | 15:44 |
| jimbaker | it is relevant to a meeting i have in 15 min | 15:44 |
| thomasem | Okay, good to know. | 15:44 |
| jimbaker | so i'm just putting out a position there | 15:45 |
| git-harry | Yeah, I'll be at that | 15:45 |
| thomasem | Okay. Well, I would really like to discuss this reporting stuff when it does become relevant, because I'm going to plant my feet about people talking directly to the DB rather than going through the API. | 15:45 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, i think the relevant contract is the SA model | 15:45 |
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| git-harry | but I thought that meeting was only to confirm immediate priorities | 15:46 |
| thomasem | git-harry: I hope so | 15:46 |
| jimbaker | always good to be prepared | 15:46 |
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| thomasem | jimbaker: you can't version that as easily as you can an API... | 15:46 |
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| thomasem | The data model will become a nightmare if we have to keep around old representations of the data. | 15:47 |
| thomasem | Because somebody wrote a report against it and they don't have time to change it. | 15:47 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, i believe that's the whole point of alembic and other migration work | 15:47 |
| thomasem | I don't think that's what folks had in mind, exactly. | 15:47 |
| thomasem | But, I'd be interested to hear your grounds for that reasoning. | 15:47 |
| jimbaker | but sure, if you cannot update your report, you are on shaky grounds | 15:48 |
| thomasem | That WILL happen. | 15:48 |
| git-harry | Is there anything else we need to cover off before the end of this meeting? Otherwise I'm going to take back 10. | 15:48 |
| thomasem | And it's insane to expect everyone who wrote some reporting thing against our schema to update every time we need to change the schema. | 15:48 |
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| thomasem | git-harry: nope. I think we have our priorities, and they will become clearer. | 15:49 |
| thomasem | #topic Open Discussion | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: craton)" | 15:49 | |
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| jimbaker | then if we assume that reporting will be out of sync, we need to bring this into the API. some reports then become more supported than others | 15:49 |
| thomasem | Okay, now jimbaker and I can nerd knife fight | 15:49 |
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| jimbaker | thomasem, oh sure | 15:49 |
| thomasem | jimbaker I think all reports ought to query the API, and that's it. | 15:49 |
| jimbaker | i do dislike opaque databases | 15:49 |
| thomasem | Anything going behind the API is going to cause a maintenance problem. | 15:50 |
| thomasem | Because we don't have as much flexibility and power in versioning the DB as we do in versioning the API. | 15:50 |
| thomasem | Alembic and other migration tools are meant to go from version to version, not necessarily support multiple versions simultaneously. | 15:50 |
| thomasem | Unless I'm misunderstanding something? | 15:50 |
| jimbaker | alembic does NOT support multiple versions | 15:50 |
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| jimbaker | any thought that your ad hoc reporting could survive a versioning change, that's obviously wrong | 15:51 |
| thomasem | Exactly. You're at a version, and that's it. So, if folks are writing reporting and tooling against our schema and we need to go to another version, we risk breaking their things, and that's going to put people up in arms and hamstring our progress. | 15:51 |
| thomasem | okay, so, given that then, wouldn't it be better to not set the expectation that it's okay to use our DB directly? | 15:51 |
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| thomasem | It'd be better to set a clear expectation (and this is definitely once we actually have versioning implemented in the API, too) that our API is what one ought to use for querying for reporting and other tooling? | 15:52 |
| jimbaker | so two opinions then. i believe in making it feasible to do certain things, but understanding there is a risk involved | 15:52 |
| farid | where did this direct db querying issue come from ? | 15:52 |
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| jimbaker | farid, this is about ad hoc reporting | 15:52 |
| thomasem | I believe in protecting the customer from themselves. | 15:53 |
| jimbaker | one option is: they have to build all of their representations of the inventory from what they can query from the api | 15:53 |
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| thomasem | and providing a clean UX to support their needs in a flexible, safe way. | 15:53 |
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| thomasem | Another consideration - allowing direct access to the DB opens you up to operational problems | 15:54 |
| jimbaker | the other is, there's an underlying clean relational database | 15:54 |
| thomasem | We put quotas and rate limits and other things in place to protect Craton from malicious or mistaken users | 15:54 |
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| farid | jimbaker: was ad-hoc reporting in the UC document ? | 15:54 |
| jimbaker | farid, yes | 15:54 |
| farid | which $? | 15:55 |
| farid | sorry, #? :) | 15:55 |
| farid | talking about 8? | 15:55 |
| jimbaker | UC2 | 15:55 |
| jimbaker | and it's not initially required per bjorn | 15:55 |
| farid | got it thanks | 15:55 |
| thomasem | That UC looks to be satisfied by Craton API? | 15:56 |
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| jimbaker | thomasem, depends on how much we bake into our API :) | 15:56 |
| thomasem | Okay, if they need more, we need to allow more from our API, in my opinion. But, allowing direct access to the DB sends the wrong impression. | 15:56 |
| thomasem | They may come to rely on it as it is. | 15:57 |
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| thomasem | Even if you tell customers "this is subject to change at any time," they'll ignore you and expect it to stay that way. | 15:57 |
| jimbaker | thomasem, i certainly know where you are coming from | 15:57 |
| jimbaker | anyway, time to wrap up this meeting | 15:57 |
| thomasem | Yeppers | 15:58 |
| thomasem | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 20 15:58:04 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/craton/2017/craton.2017-02-20-15.00.html | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/craton/2017/craton.2017-02-20-15.00.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/craton/2017/craton.2017-02-20-15.00.log.html | 15:58 |
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| kaifeng | Hi everyone, is the meeting started? | 16:06 |
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| kaifeng | #startmeeting ironic_neutron | 16:15 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 20 16:15:26 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kaifeng. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:15 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic_neutron)" | 16:15 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic_neutron' | 16:15 |
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