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| ifat_afek | #startmeeting vitrage | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 9 08:00:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ifat_afek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vitrage)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vitrage' | 08:00 |
| ifat_afek | Hi everyone :-) | 08:01 |
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| idan_hefetz | Hi! | 08:01 |
| danoffek | Hi guys | 08:01 |
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| ifat_afek | #topic Status and Updates | 08:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Updates (Meeting topic: vitrage)" | 08:04 | |
| ifat_afek | I’m working on arranging Vitrage documentation. | 08:04 |
| ifat_afek | I want to update vitrage-specs page. Please go over my change: | 08:04 |
| ifat_afek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394550/ | 08:05 |
| ifat_afek | This is how the page looks like at the moment, with only Mitaka blueprints: | 08:05 |
| ifat_afek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394550/ | 08:05 |
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| ifat_afek | Another change I’ve made is to publish vitrage documentation under http://docs.openstack.org/developer/vitrage . I’m waiting for the infra to approve my change: | 08:06 |
| ifat_afek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394550/ | 08:06 |
| idan_hefetz | The developer/vitrage link | 08:06 |
| idan_hefetz | does not work | 08:06 |
| ifat_afek | of course… this is the change I am trying to make | 08:06 |
| ifat_afek | all other official projects have their developer guides in this site. I want to add vitrage as well | 08:07 |
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| ifat_afek | sorry for resending the same link few times… | 08:07 |
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| ifat_afek | this is vitrage-specs: | 08:08 |
| ifat_afek | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/vitrage-specs/ | 08:08 |
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| ifat_afek | and this is the change for adding vitrage developer guide: | 08:08 |
| ifat_afek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394181 | 08:08 |
| idan_hefetz | Cool! | 08:08 |
| ifat_afek | in addition, I plan to start going over some gerrit issues that are open for a while. We need to decide what to do about them. | 08:09 |
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| ifat_afek | will be happy to get help on that :-) | 08:09 |
| danoffek | I'll update for @noambloom | 08:10 |
| idan_hefetz | I can help with that, let me know which ones | 08:10 |
| danoffek | Noam is continuing to develop templates list / show ui | 08:10 |
| ifat_afek | idan_hefetz: great, thanks | 08:10 |
| danoffek | In the details (show) options, there are now 2 viewing options : | 08:10 |
| danoffek | Simple view, for quick reference | 08:11 |
| danoffek | Yaml view, which is the exact representation of the Yaml file | 08:11 |
| danoffek | In addition, Simple view has been adapted to handle large template files. | 08:12 |
| danoffek | It's the same as a tree (file manager) representation, to enable seeing the "macro" | 08:13 |
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| danoffek | To see inner branches (inner details) you click the node. | 08:13 |
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| danoffek | That's a very cool feature added by NoamBloom | 08:13 |
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| ifat_afek | danoffek: thanks for the update! | 08:14 |
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| elisha_r | hi - sorry for being late | 08:14 |
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| elisha_r | So, I'll just update | 08:16 |
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| elisha_r | Eyal could not join today, but he's been making progress in getting the Vitrage RDO approved. | 08:17 |
| elisha_r | Once this is done, installing Vitrage via puppet in the standard manner will be available. | 08:18 |
| danoffek | Good to hear | 08:18 |
| danoffek | That will simplify things | 08:19 |
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| elisha_r | Moving on, just wanted to update that I recently entered an important fix to the overlapping-template support. (forgot to put it in launchpad... sorry) | 08:19 |
| elisha_r | basically, if there were active template scenarios when vitrage is restarted, these scenarios will never be undone after the restart | 08:20 |
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| elisha_r | to fix this, we needed to make some minor changes to the overlapping templates tracker. | 08:21 |
| elisha_r | This was pushed a few days ago. | 08:22 |
| elisha_r | that;s it for updates from me... | 08:22 |
| ifat_afek | elisha_r: great, thanks | 08:22 |
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| nofarsch | elisha_r: so after a restart what | 08:23 |
| nofarsch | will happen exactly? | 08:23 |
| danoffek | You will have Vitrage | 08:23 |
| nofarsch | all scenarios will be deactivated? | 08:24 |
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| elisha_r | nofarsch: if there are active scenarios before the restart, they will still be active after restart. But unlike before, their undo | 08:24 |
| elisha_r | will work as it should | 08:24 |
| nofarsch | elisha_r: awesome | 08:25 |
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| elisha_r | the problem originally was that during restart, the consistency process checks and activates templates for EACH node in the graph, not just the last one the completed the pattern of the scenario | 08:25 |
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| nofarsch | and now? | 08:25 |
| elisha_r | so if the scenario pattern had three vertices, the scenario was activated three times | 08:25 |
| elisha_r | and the overlapping templates support had three entries for this action | 08:26 |
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| elisha_r | then, a single undo would not undo the action, only remove one of these entries (sort of like soft-pointer implementation) | 08:26 |
| elisha_r | the fix was to make sure that during "undo", of the same exact pattern triggered an action, even if it happened several times, all these "pointers" are removed from the system, solving the bug | 08:27 |
| elisha_r | hope that clarifies things | 08:27 |
| ifat_afek | elisha_r: thanks for the detailed exaplanation | 08:27 |
| ifat_afek | moving on | 08:28 |
| nofarsch | elisha_r: thanks! | 08:28 |
| ifat_afek | #topic Plans for Ocata | 08:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plans for Ocata (Meeting topic: vitrage)" | 08:28 | |
| ifat_afek | Now that Barcelona summit is over, we should plan Ocata | 08:28 |
| ifat_afek | I will try to estimate the effort needed for implementing the Vitrage -> Aodh integration. | 08:29 |
| elisha_r | nofrasch: sure - always :) | 08:29 |
| ifat_afek | We already have Vitrage datasource that polls alarms from Aodh, and dwj is working on receiving notifications from Aodh. | 08:29 |
| ifat_afek | We need to implement the other direction as well. First, we should write code in Aodh for custom alarms (that can be triggered by an external project like Vitrage) | 08:29 |
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| ifat_afek | Then, we should rewrite aodh notifier in Vitrage to generate these alarms in Aodh. | 08:29 |
| nbloom | Hi all :) | 08:30 |
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| nbloom | I really want that for Ocata we'll extend the capabilities regarding templates along with a matching UI for creation of new templates via an editor(perhaps add some snippets for easy creation), saving them, editing them and making it more accessible to people to write new templates and change them | 08:32 |
| ifat_afek | nbloom: I agree it will be a very big enhancement to Vitrage | 08:33 |
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| ifat_afek | other things we would like to do for Ocata are: handle alarms history, and for that we need to have a persistent graph database | 08:34 |
| ifat_afek | also improve our multi tenancy solution | 08:34 |
| ifat_afek | and fully support Doctor use case - we need to support Vitrage installation as part of OPNFV Apex installer | 08:35 |
| ifat_afek | anything else that I missed? | 08:35 |
| danoffek | We are starting to plan Vitrage history | 08:37 |
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| danoffek | Everybody is invited to contribute ideas / blueprints / code | 08:37 |
| ifat_afek | danoffek: +1 | 08:38 |
| ifat_afek | any other issues before we end this meeting? | 08:38 |
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| ifat_afek | goodbye then | 08:40 |
| nbloom | bye | 08:40 |
| ifat_afek | #endmeeting | 08:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 9 08:40:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vitrage/2016/vitrage.2016-11-09-08.00.html | 08:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vitrage/2016/vitrage.2016-11-09-08.00.txt | 08:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vitrage/2016/vitrage.2016-11-09-08.00.log.html | 08:40 |
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| acabot | #startmeeting watcher | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 9 09:00:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is acabot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'watcher' | 09:00 |
| acabot | o/ | 09:00 |
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| brunograz | o/ | 09:00 |
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| acabot | agenda for today #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Watcher_Meeting_Agenda#11.2F09.2F2016 | 09:01 |
| alexchadin | o/ | 09:01 |
| acabot | brunograz alexchadin : how was the summit ? | 09:01 |
| alexchadin | acabot: it was beautiful! | 09:02 |
| brunograz | acabot: v interesting - first time attending it | 09:02 |
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| acabot | I know this place in Barcelona from previous events and its very nice | 09:02 |
| acabot | jed56 told me that weather was great too | 09:02 |
| Yumeng | hi | 09:02 |
| exploreshaifali | hello! I want to contribute to watcher, currently trying to understand watcher current codebase! so I am here :) | 09:02 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : welcome ! | 09:03 |
| exploreshaifali | Thanks! acabot | 09:03 |
| alexchadin | exploreshaifali: you're welcome! | 09:03 |
| brunograz | welcome :) | 09:03 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : for which company are you working ? | 09:03 |
| exploreshaifali | Thanks all! | 09:03 |
| exploreshaifali | acabot, I am an individual contributor.... I started with openstack as Outreachy intern | 09:04 |
| exploreshaifali | now I want to continue contributing to OpenStack more | 09:04 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : ok looks great | 09:04 |
| hidekazu | hello. | 09:04 |
| acabot | waiting 2 min for others to join | 09:05 |
| exploreshaifali | so I will keep pinging you guys for further help to understand watcher codebase | 09:05 |
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| acabot | hidekazu : hi, how was your summit ? | 09:05 |
| hidekazu | acabot: good. | 09:05 |
| atuly | Hello | 09:05 |
| acabot | hi atuly | 09:06 |
| hidekazu | acabot: i am sure watcher is good community. | 09:06 |
| acabot | hidekazu : thx and sorry for not being at the summit personnaly | 09:06 |
| hidekazu | hi atuly. | 09:06 |
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| acabot | #topic Announcements | 09:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 09:06 | |
| acabot | #info The OpenStack Summit in Barcelona is over, minutes are available on etherpad | 09:06 |
| acabot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/watcher-ocata-design-session | 09:07 |
| acabot | We should send a recap of all discussions on the ML, as I was not there, I would suggest that someone else does it | 09:07 |
| acabot | does anyone wants to do it ? | 09:08 |
| acabot | #action acabot ask sballe to send a recap of the summit on the ML | 09:08 |
| atuly | acabot: how do i get included in ML? | 09:09 |
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| acabot | atuly : you should register to openstack-dev | 09:09 |
| acabot | and filter with [watcher] tag | 09:09 |
| atuly | ok | 09:09 |
| acabot | #info Team priorities for Ocata have to be merged | 09:09 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372528/ | 09:09 |
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| acabot | I would like to have a maximum of +1 on this review before merging it | 09:10 |
| acabot | so please go through it (its very small) and +1 | 09:10 |
| acabot | #info Feedback for the mascot is requested by Friday 11th | 09:10 |
| acabot | #link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_h5gjY7WQPMX2FYSVBOWk8zYWs/view?usp=sharing | 09:10 |
| acabot | does anyone has feedback to share ? | 09:11 |
| acabot | personnaly I'm fine with the design | 09:11 |
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| alexchadin | looks good, material design? | 09:11 |
| brunograz | acabot: looks nice and neat | 09:11 |
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| exploreshaifali | yeah, It looks good | 09:12 |
| acabot | ok so lets keep this design | 09:12 |
| acabot | #topic Review Action Items | 09:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 09:12 | |
| acabot | we have a lot of reviews open | 09:12 |
| acabot | Watcher specs | 09:13 |
| acabot | automatic triggering of action plans for AUDIT needs a new PS and final reviews from core | 09:13 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342473/ | 09:13 |
| acabot | is diga here ? | 09:13 |
| acabot | alexchadin : did you ping diga to help him , | 09:13 |
| acabot | ? | 09:13 |
| alexchadin | acabot: not yet | 09:13 |
| alexchadin | acabot: I haven't seen him online | 09:13 |
| acabot | alexchadin : would you mind to reassign the BP to yourself ? | 09:14 |
| acabot | alexchadin : diga is not able to give us feedback | 09:14 |
| acabot | alexchadin : and its an essential BP for Ocata | 09:14 |
| alexchadin | acabot: If he wouldn't mind, I will take care of it | 09:15 |
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| acabot | #action acabot ask diga for a reassignment of his bp | 09:15 |
| acabot | scale out or delete instance based on workload needs a new PS | 09:15 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/359690/ | 09:15 |
| acabot | yumeng : any update ? | 09:15 |
| Yumeng | acabot:hi | 09:16 |
| Yumeng | since there is an existed strategy handling the same problem using Heat auto-sacling, we are considering abandon and not to duplicate that work. | 09:16 |
| acabot | Yumeng : ok, sorry for that | 09:16 |
| acabot | we definitely need to document existing strategies to avoid this case | 09:17 |
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| acabot | Specs for watcher-versioned-objects needs a new PS and final reviews from core | 09:17 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383718/ | 09:17 |
| acabot | vincentfrancoise : any update ? | 09:17 |
| acabot | vincentfrancoise : I think you have all comments from core reviewers | 09:18 |
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| acabot | sorry he wasn't there | 09:19 |
| vincentfrancoise | hi all | 09:19 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383718/ | 09:19 |
| acabot | vincentfrancoise : any update ? | 09:19 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: well, I still have some work to do to remove the previous notification code that is still there | 09:20 |
| acabot | but the spec ? | 09:20 |
| acabot | ok | 09:20 |
| acabot | code in the spec | 09:20 |
| acabot | Specs for audit-versioned-notifications-api needs a new PS | 09:21 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385077/ | 09:21 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: spec wise, I need to add some extra precisions regarding things I didn't mention | 09:21 |
| acabot | ok and for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385077/ ? | 09:21 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: but also take into account the comments that were made | 09:21 |
| acabot | ok | 09:22 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: I need to add 2 more payloads for audit.strategy.error and ausit.planner.error | 09:22 |
| acabot | #action vincentfrancoise add new PS for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383718/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385077/ | 09:22 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: these will be sent over when things go wrong | 09:22 |
| acabot | Define grammar for workload characterization needs a new PS | 09:23 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/377100/ | 09:23 |
| acabot | #action hvprash add a new PS for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/377100/ | 09:23 |
| acabot | Define when an action plan is stale/invalid is in merge conflict and needs final reviews from core | 09:23 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386293/ | 09:23 |
| acabot | is licanwei here ? | 09:23 |
| licanwei | yes | 09:24 |
| acabot | could you rebase this patch ? | 09:24 |
| licanwei | ok | 09:24 |
| dtardivel | acabot: licanwei: I've just reviewed this spec this morning. Please take into account my comments | 09:24 |
| acabot | #action licanwei add a new PS for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386293/ answering comments | 09:24 |
| acabot | Audit tag in VM Metadata needs a new PS | 09:25 |
| licanwei | dtardivel: Thanks | 09:25 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391374/ | 09:25 |
| acabot | #action hvprash add a new PS for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391374/ answering comments | 09:25 |
| acabot | Add improvements to the planner and workflow mechanisms needs reviews | 09:25 |
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| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385871/ | 09:25 |
| acabot | alexchadin : can we start reviewing your spec ? | 09:26 |
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| alexchadin | acabot: yes, David already started | 09:26 |
| acabot | I see that | 09:26 |
| acabot | so I suppose its fine to start reviewing | 09:26 |
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| acabot | who wants to review ? | 09:27 |
| alexchadin | +1 | 09:27 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: me | 09:27 |
| licanwei | +1 | 09:27 |
| acabot | #action vincentfrancoise acabot review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385871/ | 09:27 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: although I'll probably do it next week | 09:27 |
| acabot | #action licanwei review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385871/ | 09:27 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : reviewing spec could be a good way to start contributing | 09:28 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : we need more +1 to improve specs | 09:28 |
| acabot | moving to Watcher | 09:28 |
| exploreshaifali | acabot, sure! I will follow them | 09:28 |
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| acabot | #action exploreshaifali review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385871/ | 09:29 |
| acabot | watcher versionned objects needs reviews | 09:29 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/watcher+branch:master+topic:bp/watcher-versioned-objects | 09:29 |
| acabot | we just need W+1 on those patches | 09:29 |
| acabot | vincentfrancoise : can we merge them by EOW ? | 09:29 |
| alexchadin | acabot: I'm ready to set W+1 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/359065/ | 09:30 |
| vincentfrancoise | alexchadin: I'll add a trust-me-it-works tag on them if you want :D | 09:30 |
| alexchadin | vincentfrancoise: :D | 09:30 |
| exploreshaifali | haha | 09:31 |
| acabot | alexchadin: I think the best would be to have you #W+1 all of them | 09:31 |
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| acabot | alexchadin : as it has been reviewed by dtardivel and we don't have an Intel core anymore | 09:31 |
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| acabot | vincentfrancoise : do we need to have all patches merged at the same time for consistency ? | 09:33 |
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| acabot | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/watcher+branch:master+topic:bp/watcher-versioned-objects | 09:33 |
| acabot | audit versioned notifications api needs reviews | 09:33 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/watcher+branch:master+topic:bp/audit-versioned-notifications-api | 09:33 |
| acabot | vincentfrancoise : I suppose this is still in WIP ? | 09:34 |
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| vincentfrancoise | acabot: yes | 09:35 |
| acabot | ok | 09:35 |
| acabot | check the state of action plan needs reviews | 09:35 |
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| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391383/ | 09:35 |
| acabot | licanwei : I suppose you need review on this ? who wants to review it ? | 09:35 |
| licanwei | acabot: yes | 09:36 |
| brunograz | +1 | 09:36 |
| Yumeng | +1 | 09:36 |
| acabot | #action brunograz yumeng dtardivel review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391383/ | 09:37 |
| acabot | Add doc for workload-stabilization spec needs discussion ? | 09:37 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389101/ | 09:37 |
| licanwei | brunograz, Ymeng: Thanks | 09:37 |
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| hidekazu | acabot: i am reviewing. | 09:38 |
| Yumeng | licanwei: :) | 09:38 |
| acabot | hidekazu : did you try again this strategy ? | 09:38 |
| hidekazu | acabot: yes. | 09:38 |
| acabot | #action acabot review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389101/ | 09:39 |
| acabot | Added Tempest API tests for /scoring_engines needs reviews | 09:39 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/371558/ | 09:39 |
| acabot | it needs a new PS after hidekazu comments | 09:40 |
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| acabot | alexchadin : can you submit a new patch ? | 09:40 |
| acabot | sorry this patch is from vincentfrancoise | 09:40 |
| acabot | vincentfrancoise : can you resubmit a patch ? | 09:40 |
| acabot | vincentfrancoise : at least answer hidekazu comments | 09:41 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: will do but it will be come after my work on OVO/notification blueprints | 09:41 |
| acabot | ok | 09:41 |
| acabot | #action vincentfrancoise add a new PS for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/371558/ | 09:41 |
| acabot | Watcher CLI | 09:41 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: if someone wants to finish it, I'll be more than happy to leave it to someone else ;) | 09:42 |
| acabot | #undo | 09:42 |
| atuly | i can pick it up. | 09:42 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7fac5536a450> | 09:42 |
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| acabot | #action atuly add a new PS for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/371558/ | 09:42 |
| acabot | thx atuly | 09:42 |
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| acabot | Add functional tests to watcherclient is still WIP ? needs reviews ? | 09:43 |
| vincentfrancoise | atuly: cool! | 09:43 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389181/ | 09:43 |
| acabot | alexchadin : is this still WIP ? | 09:43 |
| alexchadin | You can start to review it, I will just add new objects | 09:43 |
| acabot | ok so should we wait for a new PS before reviewing ? | 09:43 |
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| alexchadin | It would be great to get review on already implemented things:) | 09:44 |
| dtardivel | acabot: I will recview it | 09:44 |
| alexchadin | I need to add test_audit and test_scoring_engine files | 09:44 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : do you want to review functional tests as well ? | 09:45 |
| exploreshaifali | acabot, yes :) | 09:45 |
| acabot | #action dtardivel exploreshaifali review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389181/ | 09:45 |
| alexchadin | vincentfrancoise: can you remind me how to add gate test for functional module? | 09:45 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : whats your gerrit nick ? | 09:45 |
| alexchadin | in our primary channel, of course | 09:45 |
| acabot | #info I forgot to mention that Watcher CLI v0.25.1 has been released after Summit freeze | 09:46 |
| vincentfrancoise | alexchadin: it's within the openstack/project-config project | 09:46 |
| vincentfrancoise | alexchadin: we can discuss this after the meeting if you want | 09:47 |
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| alexchadin | +1 | 09:47 |
| acabot | #topic Blueprint/Bug Review and Discussion | 09:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint/Bug Review and Discussion (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 09:47 | |
| acabot | #info Our current milestone target is Ocata-1 due November 14th | 09:47 |
| acabot | #link https://launchpad.net/watcher/+milestone/ocata-1 | 09:47 |
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| acabot | we still have 10 BPs targeted for next week :-) | 09:48 |
| alexchadin | oh | 09:48 |
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| acabot | I will move "not started" BP to Ocata-2 | 09:49 |
| acabot | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/automatic-triggering-audit is marked as essential | 09:49 |
| acabot | and we dont have a spec ready | 09:49 |
| acabot | #action refresh BPs list to reflect ocata-1 achievements | 09:50 |
| acabot | #action acabot refresh BPs list to reflect ocata-1 achievements | 09:50 |
| exploreshaifali | acabot, my gerrit nick - shaifali | 09:50 |
| acabot | thx | 09:51 |
| acabot | #topic Open discussions | 09:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussions (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 09:51 | |
| acabot | Shouldn't all strategies have an associated tempest test to make sure they work? | 09:51 |
| vincentfrancoise | IMHO, they should | 09:51 |
| acabot | it would be nice but can we always do it ? | 09:52 |
| dtardivel | vincentfrancoise: how to handle metrics ? | 09:52 |
| acabot | I mean if the strategy rely on non available metrics on the gate ? | 09:52 |
| vincentfrancoise | one problem I had when trying to help hidekazu out was that the strategy wasn't working straight away | 09:52 |
| alexchadin | They should. How will tempest create loads on some compute nodes? For example, in case of workload stabilization strategy we need at least two compute nodes with different loads inside. | 09:53 |
| vincentfrancoise | this is something that can discourage some people from using Watcher | 09:53 |
| vincentfrancoise | as for the handling of metrics | 09:54 |
| vincentfrancoise | IMHO, all strategies should work even if the no metrics are available | 09:54 |
| vincentfrancoise | but in such a case the resulting action plan should be empty | 09:54 |
| vincentfrancoise | and warnings should be raised | 09:54 |
| acabot | the problem I see is that strategy developer should be aware of tempest behavior | 09:55 |
| alexchadin | vincentfrancoise: What do we need to test then?:) | 09:55 |
| acabot | brunograz : what do you think ? could you provide tempest tests to test your strategy ? | 09:55 |
| alexchadin | If we do not provide any metrics | 09:55 |
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| brunograz | acabot: we could have a look on this - I'm not familiar with tempest tests | 09:56 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: what do you mean by tempest behaviour? | 09:56 |
| acabot | I mean understanding how tempest tests should be written | 09:56 |
| dtardivel | I don't think that ALL strategies should be checked in tempest test ? What do we want to check with tempest tests ? the framework, the strategies ? | 09:56 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: ah yes | 09:57 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: the thing is that we can also ask the question the other way around: how can a reviewer make sure it really works if he cannot run it on his environment? | 09:57 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: regarding existing strategies, it's another problem although we should eventually have them covered | 09:58 |
| acabot | ok so it will be a kind of "dummy test" | 09:58 |
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| acabot | just to check that the strategy run without any metric | 09:59 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: yes | 09:59 |
| acabot | I will move this discussion to next week agenda | 09:59 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: but if someone has these metrics setup on their own infrastructure | 09:59 |
| brunograz | that sounds reasonable | 09:59 |
| acabot | yes it is | 09:59 |
| vincentfrancoise | acabot: that dummy test on the gate becomes a real test | 09:59 |
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| acabot | we have to leave | 10:00 |
| acabot | thx | 10:00 |
| brunograz | bye | 10:00 |
| vincentfrancoise | thx | 10:00 |
| alexchadin | thank you all | 10:00 |
| vincentfrancoise | bye all | 10:00 |
| acabot | #endmeeting | 10:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 10:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 9 10:00:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:00 |
| hidekazu | bye | 10:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/watcher/2016/watcher.2016-11-09-09.00.html | 10:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/watcher/2016/watcher.2016-11-09-09.00.txt | 10:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/watcher/2016/watcher.2016-11-09-09.00.log.html | 10:00 |
| atuly | thanks annd bye | 10:00 |
| exploreshaifali | bbyee! | 10:00 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 13:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 9 13:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | who is here today? | 13:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 13:00 |
| diana_clarke | o/ | 13:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 13:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | ok, let's start the meeting | 13:01 |
| alex_xu | #topic action from previous meeting | 13:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "action from previous meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 13:01 | |
| jichen | o/ | 13:01 |
| alex_xu | there is action for Kevin to bring up a spec for fix the server list query parameters | 13:01 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/393205 | 13:01 |
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| alex_xu | this is the spec. and Kevin can't join the meeting today | 13:02 |
| alex_xu | I found actually if I input the joined table in the sort_key, I will get 400 returned | 13:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | any bits worth discussing here? | 13:02 |
| gmann_ | o/ | 13:02 |
| alex_xu | This behaviour is changed after this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143632/6 | 13:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | ooh, interesting... | 13:03 |
| alex_xu | But there still have some strange thing, like I can input sort_key=__mapper__, then got 500 | 13:03 |
| alex_xu | also I can input the joined table in the filter, like GET /servers?info_cache=xyz, then got 500 | 13:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, so not quite as bad position as we thought we were, so thats nice | 13:04 |
| gmann_ | so we want 400 in all cases right | 13:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | yup | 13:05 |
| alex_xu | but I can get 500 when the nova-api startup, then I sort by info_cache | 13:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: that list in the spec looks quite large still, I guess we don't have an index on all of those? | 13:05 |
| alex_xu | and I only can get 500 for sort_key=info_cache, which I didn't the reason | 13:05 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yes | 13:05 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: the spec is only talk about the sort key. I thought the spec should talk about the filter and sort key. | 13:06 |
| gmann_ | yea it looks lot of things, for example anyone do sort with display_description ? | 13:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, need filter and sort key doing | 13:06 |
| alex_xu | do we want to stop sort on the column without index in this spec, or just stop the joinedtable filter and sort? | 13:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I suspect we want to add indexes needed, but only allow indexed ones to be filtered/sorted | 13:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | but I would want to know what jaypipes thinks | 13:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | might be filtered on non-indexed is not as bad, I am unsure | 13:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | FWIW, I am OK having a big list for the admin users | 13:08 |
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| alex_xu | yea, for admin user, that sounds ok | 13:08 |
| * gmann facing some network issue | 13:09 | |
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| alex_xu | how about let me catch jay, or send email to ask about that | 13:09 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: that sounds ok? | 13:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats fine, I will try ping him if I see him | 13:11 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: cool, thanks | 13:12 |
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| alex_xu | then I will talk to Kevin to update the spec | 13:12 |
| alex_xu | #topic Priority tasks | 13:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority tasks (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 13:13 | |
| alex_xu | emm...I didn't catch other thing for the last week | 13:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | try undo cmd, if you want to head back to that | 13:14 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: anything more you think worth to update? | 13:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | what was our other action from last week? | 13:14 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: that is the only one action | 13:14 |
| alex_xu | sorry, I jump to another topic suddenly | 13:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | no worries | 13:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | priority wise, we made a list last week | 13:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | basically that spec we just discussed, and its dependencies, I think? | 13:16 |
| gmann | we need to update the same in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-nova-priorities-tracking | 13:16 |
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| alex_xu | yea | 13:16 |
| alex_xu | gmann: thanks | 13:17 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/388518 | 13:17 |
| alex_xu | I updated the base one | 13:17 |
| alex_xu | looking for more feedback | 13:17 |
| gmann | alex_xu: nice, ll check tomorrow, actually not getting much time for review due to office movement | 13:18 |
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| alex_xu | gmann: thanks1 | 13:19 |
| alex_xu | s/1/!/ | 13:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I totally need to follow up on that one | 13:19 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 13:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | does adding key pair as an example make sense? | 13:20 |
| alex_xu | next week is spec freeze, just left one week for us | 13:20 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yes, agree with you, I added it into the spec | 13:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | so you add the new microversion for additional_properties=True | 13:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | I wonder if we should wait and add that later? | 13:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | oops = False I mean | 13:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | I totally miss read the spec | 13:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think thats what I expecting, doing something later | 13:22 |
| gmann | ignoring those as of now and then error with version bump | 13:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy | do we want to strip out the invalid stuff from what we return to the code? | 13:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | like we do for v2.0 API | 13:22 |
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| alex_xu | for keypair, I guess there isn't invalid stuff work on v2.0 API | 13:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | ?foo=asdfas is invalid right? | 13:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | I mean the code doesn't read foo today, but it feels good to strip that all out | 13:23 |
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| gmann | johnthetubaguy: but strip out may lead to confusion by returning other item too ? | 13:23 |
| alex_xu | yes, both v2.0 and v2.1 ignore the foo | 13:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am really thinking about the follow up spec | 13:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | when we pass the list of items stright into the DB layer | 13:24 |
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| gmann | i am sure some tempest tests might be filtering based on some | 13:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | if we strip out all the bad bits, it should help | 13:24 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: +1 for follow up spec | 13:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | so it feels like the framework should always do the striping of additional properties, so we don't get confused about it | 13:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann: sorry, don't yet your question about the confusion? | 13:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am thinking, when you have the decorator, it ensures you only get expected params in the query string you get back | 13:25 |
| gmann | johnthetubaguy: i mean striping out those will still create impression that requested filter is taken care ? | 13:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure what you mean | 13:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | longer term, we would reject the request with 400 errors | 13:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | but doing that breaks existing requests, so we can't really do that | 13:26 |
| gmann | like if i filter with some black-list filter key but i still get whole list items | 13:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | ... now, if all the "bad" params cause 500 or 400 already, we should probably keep them as 400 | 13:26 |
| gmann | yea 400 for long term looks nice | 13:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think we all agree on the future | 13:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | the problem is what do we do now | 13:27 |
| gmann | yea, it break existing one | 13:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | add sanity to existing keys, protect the system from bad inputs, but also don't break existing API requests | 13:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | seems like the same thing we had with 2.0 vs 2.1 to me, where we did the silent strip out of the extra params | 13:28 |
| gmann | yea at least it would not break those completely, agree | 13:28 |
| alex_xu | emm... I see the point now | 13:28 |
| gmann | is there any way we can also tell that queried param is not taken care? | 13:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | now for keypairs, it makes no difference, but I think it would be good to add that already | 13:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann: not really, right now we just silently ignore stuff anyways | 13:29 |
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| alex_xu | another case, if we add new parameter in the future, but in the old version API, the additional properties is allowed, that may lead to new parameter leak in the old api. | 13:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | yep, thats the same problem we have today, basically | 13:30 |
| gmann | but for v2.0 only, v2.1 return error but this case v2.1 also ignore | 13:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | no, v2.0 ignores params you send in that are bad | 13:30 |
| alex_xu | except also check the api request version in the python code | 13:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | microversion is still checked here | 13:31 |
| gmann | yea v2.0 does, i mean request with v2.1 does not ignore those instead return 400 | 13:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have additionalproerties = true mean, strip them out, but don't error out on bad keys | 13:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | so there are bad values, and unknown properties | 13:31 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: that sounds we create non-standard jsons-schema again | 13:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | same as v2.0, I am proposing we reject bad values still, but we just ignore unknown properties | 13:32 |
| gmann | hummm | 13:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: well ish, true = true, false equals strip | 13:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the key bit is, requests that used to work, keep working | 13:32 |
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| alex_xu | false equal strip sounds good | 13:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | bad requests may fail in a new way, but whatever | 13:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | we still *allow* the properties, just to keep the code "clean" we don't allow them into the main api code | 13:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | stops us messing up, basically | 13:34 |
| alex_xu | yea | 13:34 |
| gmann | that's true | 13:34 |
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| alex_xu | I will update the spec for that | 13:34 |
| alex_xu | and the code | 13:35 |
| gmann | and next spec to version bump return 400 for unknown case too | 13:35 |
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| gmann | may be in P ? or in Ocata only? | 13:35 |
| alex_xu | gmann: that will be next release | 13:35 |
| gmann | ok | 13:35 |
| alex_xu | or the future | 13:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, next cycle or layer | 13:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | we will need to go through every API and fix up the validation first, I think | 13:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats all for next cycle | 13:36 |
| alex_xu | yea | 13:36 |
| gmann | +1 | 13:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we just focus on the framework (using keypairs as a test), then fix up servers for the cells dependency | 13:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | so one extra thing... | 13:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think we have other params in the /servers APIs | 13:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we should really validate all the params at one | 13:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | once | 13:37 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: what means validate at once? | 13:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the paging parameters | 13:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we need to validate those a the same time | 13:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | as we will have a single JSON schema for all inputs to the /servers API | 13:39 |
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| alex_xu | yea, for the parameters which are used in multiple apis | 13:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, more just that spec needs to cover all the API, but yes | 13:42 |
| alex_xu | yea | 13:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | I added my comments in the review anyways | 13:43 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: thanks! | 13:43 |
| gmann | johnthetubaguy: too fast :) | 13:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | did we want to look through the list of API specs, once was go into Open, see if there are any really important ones hiding in there? | 13:43 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: sure, we can | 13:44 |
| alex_xu | i guess diana_clarke is here for his spec | 13:44 |
| alex_xu | #topic Open | 13:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 13:44 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386771 | 13:45 |
| gmann | simple-tenant-usage pagination one ? | 13:45 |
| gmann | yea | 13:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | loads of replies I only just spotted | 13:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the paging is quite funky on purely instance_uuid | 13:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | but all the alternatives are way worse | 13:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | so it feels like the correct choice | 13:46 |
| alex_xu | i'm thinking about if the dashbard want to page in the web page, each page only show 5 tenant usage, with current propose, the dashboard still need go through all the pages to get first 5 tenant usage | 13:48 |
| alex_xu | that sounds bad | 13:48 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so horizon could get all the pages, then show something nice, if it wanted to | 13:49 |
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| alex_xu | ok, they can do that, just a little slow for get all the pages | 13:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I have two nits on the spec now: | 13:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | 1) the "now" value should be included in the links | 13:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | 2) this claims to solve the horizon use case, but it really solves the admin script not taking down the whole cloud case | 13:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | from a protection point of view, this makes sense | 13:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so if we did paging on the tenant_id, we would still get the DDos when tenants have lots of instances | 13:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | doing paging on tenant_id and instance_uuid, just doesn't seem practical | 13:53 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea, but to be clear, i didn't mean to paging on the tenant_id, i mean sort by tenant_id first, then instance_id | 13:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I was just thinking about that... | 13:54 |
| alex_xu | it give the chance, the dashboard only need to go through the first few pages to get the first 5 tenants usage | 13:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I just changed to -1 saying we should do that | 13:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | the downside is you might have one tenant go over three pages | 13:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | but thats less confusing than always mixing everything up | 13:56 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: I have full solution at line 240 | 13:56 |
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| alex_xu | to note, it need to add one more field 'paged=true/false' in the api, to tell the user whether this tenant usage paging is ending or not. | 13:57 |
| alex_xu | 2 mins left | 13:58 |
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| gmann | alex_xu: but that can be known with no link available like other paging ? | 13:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm... that seems quite complicated, but I guess its better for horizon | 13:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann: you don't know if its the continuation of the same tenant or not, on the next page | 13:59 |
| alex_xu | gmann: sorry I didn't get you | 13:59 |
| gmann | ah, multiple tenant there | 13:59 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: gmann let us back to the openstack-nova, we run out of time at here | 13:59 |
| gmann | alex_xu: for single mapping we can do but with multiple tenant we need some other bit to tell | 13:59 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 9 13:59:55 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-11-09-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-11-09-13.00.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-11-09-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
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| ramishra | #startmeeting heat | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 9 15:00:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ramishra. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 15:00 |
| prazumovsky | hi | 15:00 |
| ramishra | #topic roll call | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:00 | |
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| cwolferh | o/ | 15:01 |
| yohoffman | \o | 15:01 |
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| ramishra | hi all, it would be short one as there is nothing much other than o-1 status in the agenda:) | 15:02 |
| therve | Let's go! | 15:02 |
| ramishra | zaneb probably is recovering from the election result shock;) | 15:03 |
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| ramishra | #topic adding items to agenda | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "adding items to agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:03 | |
| ramishra | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282016-11-09_1500_UTC.29 | 15:03 |
| yohoffman | I added a small item | 15:04 |
| ramishra | yohoffman: thanks! | 15:04 |
| yohoffman | Wanted to see if anyone has thoughts on two implemented quota resources | 15:04 |
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| ramishra | #topic o-1 status | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "o-1 status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:04 | |
| ramishra | Next week is o-1 milestone week, only 2 weeks after summit. | 15:05 |
| ramishra | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/ocata-1 | 15:05 |
| ramishra | we don't have many bps, only 2, out of them one is the quota related and other some keystone resources | 15:06 |
| therve | Doesn't look too bad | 15:06 |
| ramishra | yeah, there are some targeted unassigned bugs. | 15:06 |
| ramishra | I think we would move them to o-2? | 15:06 |
| therve | I think I'll handle one at least | 15:07 |
| ramishra | ok, great | 15:07 |
| therve | The other shardy may have an opinion, it sounds like doc to me | 15:07 |
| ramishra | I think there are 2 backports for stable/newton in review too. | 15:08 |
| ramishra | we need reviews for them as we would cut a stable release with o-1 | 15:08 |
| prazumovsky | therve: yeah, there are several such issues, which related to absence of detailed RG description | 15:08 |
| ramishra | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:stable/newton | 15:09 |
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| ramishra | prazumovsky: do we really want this backport https://review.openstack.org/#/c/393290/? | 15:10 |
| therve | It doesn't look like a good backport | 15:10 |
| therve | No new conf option | 15:10 |
| prazumovsky | about my backport - originally some people need that in newton, but haven't merged to newton | 15:10 |
| prazumovsky | and now they asked me to backport that | 15:10 |
| prazumovsky | I answered, that this is not good practice | 15:11 |
| prazumovsky | but they insisted:) | 15:11 |
| ramishra | prazumovsky: I would prefer not to backport it. | 15:11 |
| prazumovsky | OK, no problem | 15:11 |
| prazumovsky | At least, I had to try | 15:12 |
| prazumovsky | then abandon it | 15:12 |
| ramishra | please review the patches for In Progress bugs:) | 15:12 |
| ramishra | #topic Quota resources for neutron and nova | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quota resources for neutron and nova (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:13 | |
| ramishra | yohoffman: that's your item;) | 15:14 |
| yohoffman | I guess that's my cue | 15:14 |
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| yohoffman | Just wanted to see if anyone had a chance to look at the two quota resources that have been implemented | 15:14 |
| yohoffman | If there is anything that anyone would like to discuss | 15:14 |
| yohoffman | Nova quota: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/373548/ and Neutron quota: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380471/ | 15:14 |
| ramishra | I had looked at the nove quota resource plugin, I'm not comfortable with it. As you specify user quota in addition to project quota. | 15:15 |
| ramishra | I had a few comments there, probably someone would like to look at it. | 15:15 |
| yohoffman | It originally only handeled project quota. I believe someone requested that I add in user quota as well. | 15:16 |
| therve | Either sound weird TBH | 15:16 |
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| yohoffman | It was Oleksii Chuprykov | 15:17 |
| therve | It's not like it's a deployment thing, you're making it part of your project creation workflow I guess? | 15:17 |
| therve | It would make more sense in mistral | 15:17 |
| yohoffman | It's currently part of AT&T's orchestration process | 15:17 |
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| ramishra | I think we have added one quota resource for cinder already. | 15:18 |
| yohoffman | correct | 15:18 |
| ramishra | I'm ok if it's limited to project quotas only like the cinder one. | 15:18 |
| yohoffman | The neutron one is just project quota | 15:19 |
| yohoffman | And I can remove the user from nova quota | 15:19 |
| therve | That doesn't sound too terrible | 15:20 |
| therve | Resources are relatively low maintenance | 15:20 |
| ramishra | ok, then, sounds good:) | 15:20 |
| yohoffman | Great, thanks for the input! | 15:21 |
| ramishra | #topic open discussion | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 15:21 | |
| prazumovsky | I have one question to discuss | 15:21 |
| prazumovsky | especially for ramishra | 15:21 |
| ramishra | I wanted to know if anyone is working on any specific action items from the summit? | 15:21 |
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| ramishra | I had sent a mail listing some of them a week back:) | 15:23 |
| ramishra | therve: should we create some bugs from them to track? | 15:23 |
| prazumovsky | about naming new nova version in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/374821/ . KanagarajM prefered such universal name for version 2.26, because "api version would provide more than one feature and user/developer who implements the resource plugin would know which version to use". But if name version as MIN_SUPPORT_TAG_VERSION, it could be confused | 15:23 |
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| zaneb | ohai | 15:24 |
| therve | ramishra, That'd be nice | 15:25 |
| ramishra | prazumovsky: Without looking at api docs, no one would know that 2.26 is the version that supports tags. | 15:25 |
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| ramishra | prazumovsky: I did see the discussion in that review. | 15:26 |
| ramishra | I'm fine if others think that's ok. | 15:26 |
| prazumovsky | but if there another feature, we will cannot understand, is this suitable version or not | 15:27 |
| ramishra | prazumovsky: ok | 15:27 |
| prazumovsky | ... I can add several names as compromise:) V2_26 == 2.26 and MIN_VERSION_TAG_SUPPORT == 2.26, if you want. | 15:27 |
| prazumovsky | And, of course, I'll add unittests | 15:28 |
| ramishra | Anything else we would like discuss? | 15:28 |
| cwolferh | i couldn't really tell from the etherpads or ramishra's last email what the thinking was around rolling upgrades support. on the rpc side, future_args seems like an easy way to go that wouldn't hurt much (just the extra few bytes we're passing around all the time) | 15:28 |
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| therve | cwolferh, We'd like to try the vhost idea before | 15:29 |
| cwolferh | therve, is that " proposed Solutions: Run multiple heat version engines with different AMQP virtual hosts, so different versions can't talk to each other" | 15:30 |
| therve | cwolferh, Yes | 15:30 |
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| cwolferh | ok, so newer versions are listening on multiple queues? | 15:31 |
| therve | Just the new one | 15:31 |
| therve | I don't think it needs listening on the old vhost, does it? | 15:31 |
| Drago | This is how Rackspace does updates to Heat | 15:31 |
| cwolferh | so, in theory then, there could be messages lost on the old queue when the old heat-engine goes odwn | 15:31 |
| therve | Drago, Interesting data point, thanks | 15:32 |
| ramishra | Drago: do you have anything that documents the process? we can just use that;) | 15:33 |
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| Drago | I don't think we have anything public-facing… We do a blue-green deployment, so half the time we have a set of nodes that are "inactive" that are on the old version in case we need to roll back quickly | 15:33 |
| Drago | It's essentially two separate sets of engine and API nodes that are using the same DB | 15:34 |
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| ramishra | therve: yeah, that's what we discussed, right? | 15:34 |
| ramishra | Drago: thanks for the inputs. | 15:35 |
| therve | I think so yeah. | 15:35 |
| cwolferh | so, it sounds a bit to me of pushing the trickiness of the upgrade onto operators | 15:35 |
| Drago | Welcome, ping me anytime | 15:35 |
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| therve | We didn't discuss keeping old APIs, as we don't have the problem there i believe | 15:35 |
| cwolferh | whereas with future_args, there is little operators have to worry about | 15:36 |
| therve | cwolferh, The upgrade is tricky though | 15:36 |
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| therve | That only solves half the problem though? | 15:36 |
| cwolferh | not sure it always has to be | 15:36 |
| therve | What about new RPC calls? | 15:36 |
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| cwolferh | if new rpc calls have a higer minor version, only new heat-engines will receive those | 15:37 |
| therve | Is it how it works? | 15:37 |
| therve | AFAIR it just failed, it had no way to filter where to send | 15:37 |
| cwolferh | this was my reading of http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.messaging/target.html#target-versions , but i haven't proved it in the lab | 15:38 |
| cwolferh | also mentioned in my post to list a few weeks back | 15:39 |
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| therve | I'd like it to be tested please :) | 15:39 |
| cwolferh | ok :-) | 15:40 |
| therve | Also, the vhost solution would mean that we can declare newton rolling upgradable | 15:40 |
| therve | Which is nice | 15:40 |
| therve | Also future_args is super ugly | 15:40 |
| cwolferh | well, i'm more concerned with smooth rolling upgrades than one ugly arg | 15:40 |
| therve | IIUC, if we had future_args, it will mean that pike supports rolling upgrades | 15:41 |
| ramishra | therve: we need the gate jobs to test the upgrade before we can declare anything;) | 15:41 |
| therve | With vhost, it's there now | 15:41 |
| therve | cwolferh, I'm also tempted to suggest to never add argus | 15:41 |
| therve | And just add methods | 15:41 |
| cwolferh | stack_list_v17. i like it! | 15:42 |
| cwolferh | ah, humor doesn't translate so well | 15:43 |
| therve | Well that's a good example. When are we going to change stack_list? Not that many times | 15:43 |
| therve | Also when we add an arg, it will be hidden in future_args forever | 15:43 |
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| cwolferh | but the strong consensus here seems to be for vhost. would testing the version thing i mentioned be worthwhile or not? | 15:43 |
| therve | Well we're only 4 to talk, I wouldn't say "strong" :) | 15:44 |
| therve | I'd say more expertise on that subject is welcome regardless | 15:44 |
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| ramishra | I think doing some POCs/tests irrespective of the preferred approach and documenting the results would be good. | 15:45 |
| therve | +1 | 15:45 |
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| cwolferh | therve, yeah, i think you are right. until the next major version until we start from scratch. but we don't really add that much to api's, right? ;-) | 15:46 |
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| therve | cwolferh, We changed one API during newton | 15:47 |
| therve | Maybe 2? | 15:48 |
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| therve | Anyway | 15:48 |
| ramishra | zaneb: If you're around, I was hoping that you would finish the 'store outputs in db' thing in the flight on your way back home;) | 15:49 |
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| ramishra | from the summit. | 15:49 |
| zaneb | ramishra: lol | 15:49 |
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| therve | cwolferh, Also, understanding what happens when version is specified in the call would be interesting | 15:49 |
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| therve | cwolferh, I guess it's always the case for new APIs? Because we also do it when we change signature | 15:50 |
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| cwolferh | yeah, adding args to the signature should be something we can handle within a given major version imo. but removing isn't going to work ever. | 15:51 |
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| therve | Which seems okay | 15:52 |
| cwolferh | agree | 15:53 |
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| therve | ramishra, Think we can move on | 15:54 |
| ramishra | yep, if there is anything else to discuss? | 15:54 |
| ramishra | we have 5 more mins, else we can move back to #heat | 15:55 |
| yohoffman | I've updated the nova quota to only handle project quota, so those quota bp are ready for lift off | 15:55 |
| ramishra | yohoffman: thanks | 15:55 |
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| ramishra | ok, thanks all! | 15:55 |
| ramishra | #endmeeting heat | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 9 15:55:56 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2016/heat.2016-11-09-15.00.html | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2016/heat.2016-11-09-15.00.txt | 15:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2016/heat.2016-11-09-15.00.log.html | 15:56 |
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| inc0 | #startmeeting kolla | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 9 15:59:08 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 15:59 |
| inc0 | #topic rollcall - woot for Kolla | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall - woot for Kolla (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 15:59 | |
| inc0 | woot everyone please:) | 15:59 |
| Jeffrey4l | wppt | 15:59 |
| duonghq | woot!!! | 15:59 |
| Jeffrey4l | woot ;) | 15:59 |
| pbourke | woot | 15:59 |
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| rhallisey | hi | 16:00 |
| inc0 | #chair rhallisey | 16:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: inc0 rhallisey | 16:00 |
| coolsvap | o/ | 16:00 |
| inc0 | lets give few more minutes | 16:00 |
| lrensing | o/ | 16:00 |
| lrensing | woot | 16:00 |
| srwilkers | o/ | 16:00 |
| portdirect | o/ | 16:00 |
| srwilkers | woot | 16:00 |
| egonzalez90 | woot o/ | 16:00 |
| portdirect | woot | 16:00 |
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| sdake | o/ | 16:01 |
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| zhubingbing | o/ | 16:01 |
| inc0 | #topic announcements | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:01 | |
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| inc0 | soo, welcome all after summit, it was great one! | 16:01 |
| inc0 | couple announcements: | 16:02 |
| srwilkers | \o/ | 16:02 |
| inc0 | 1. repo split will happen soon - sdake mind talking more about it later in the meeting? | 16:02 |
| sdake | sure | 16:02 |
| sdake | as long as later is sooner | 16:02 |
| sdake | i am at a conf and need to jet a bit early | 16:02 |
| inc0 | 2. we have tons of etherpads and feedback to parse, I'd encourage everyone to take a look on feedback from etherpads, translate them into blueprints and ofc implement:) | 16:03 |
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| inc0 | 3. kolla-k8s dev is full speed ahead now, but I'll let Ryan talk about this one more | 16:03 |
| mandre | o/ | 16:03 |
| inc0 | any other announcements? | 16:03 |
| inc0 | guess not, let's move on | 16:04 |
| inc0 | #topic repo split | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "repo split (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:04 | |
| inc0 | sdake, you're up | 16:04 |
| sdake | cool thanks :) | 16:04 |
| sdake | so repo split - as many know i am at CNCF this week | 16:04 |
| sdake | so I have not had time to do the mechanics of the work | 16:04 |
| sdake | however, I have got the ball rolling with infra and release team | 16:04 |
| sdake | and they have added invaluable insight in *how* to do the job | 16:05 |
| sdake | I'll submit the repo split thursday | 16:05 |
| sdake | assuming I'm not swamped by $$DAYJOB$$ :) | 16:05 |
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| sdake | then we have a whole lot of work to do fter that | 16:05 |
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| sdake | 1. delete all the stuff from various repos that are not relevant | 16:05 |
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| inc0 | sdake, would you mind adding some list of work after that? | 16:05 |
| sdake | 2. make the gate jobs work again | 16:05 |
| jmccarthy | o/ | 16:05 |
| sdake | yes doing that now inc0 :) | 16:06 |
| sdake | that is basicallly it | 16:06 |
| sdake | key things | 16:06 |
| inc0 | yeah, we'll need to translate it to blueprints/work items with more granularity | 16:06 |
| inc0 | but that's later | 16:06 |
| inc0 | getting gates up will be tricky | 16:06 |
| sdake | our branches will remain intact on in kolla-ansible | 16:06 |
| sdake | our tags will also remain intact on kolla-ansible | 16:07 |
| sdake | i think we should stick with the same version #s | 16:07 |
| sdake | but would like feedback on the ml | 16:07 |
| inc0 | +2 to that | 16:07 |
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| sdake | i have started a thread, please chim in there on this point | 16:07 |
| sdake | morning pprokop | 16:07 |
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| pprokop | HI | 16:07 |
| DTadrzak | Hi | 16:07 |
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| duonghq | sdake, I thought that release-team agreed with keep version continue? | 16:08 |
| inc0 | sdake, when you're back we need to make workable items out of repo split cleanup | 16:08 |
| sdake | duonghq that may be right | 16:08 |
| inc0 | so community will be able to handle that | 16:08 |
| sdake | inc0 sounds good | 16:08 |
| sdake | inc0 i'll write it down | 16:08 |
| inc0 | thanks | 16:08 |
| sdake | as work items and a blueprint | 16:08 |
| sdake | for each repo | 16:08 |
| sdake | two blueprints that is | 16:08 |
| inc0 | appreciate that | 16:08 |
| sdake | i was plannign to do the work myself | 16:08 |
| sdake | but if we want ot split it out that also wfm :) | 16:09 |
| sdake | jeffrey4l was planning to help with the gating refactor | 16:09 |
| inc0 | I think we should as some of it will be hideous | 16:09 |
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| inc0 | and sooner we're done with split the better - it will affect our dev negatively | 16:09 |
| inc0 | sdake, anything else or can we move on? | 16:09 |
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| sdake | we can move on | 16:10 |
| inc0 | ok, moving on:) | 16:10 |
| inc0 | #topic post-summit work | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "post-summit work (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:10 | |
| inc0 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-o-summit-schedule | 16:10 |
| inc0 | soo, we got tons of feedback on summit | 16:11 |
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| inc0 | some of these items are pretty simple changes, some are full fledged mini-projects | 16:11 |
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| inc0 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-o-summit-roadmap <- let's translate this to blueprints | 16:12 |
| sdake | inc0 fwiw doing all that stuff is pretty much impossible - too much work :) | 16:12 |
| inc0 | and leave them unassigned unless somebody would like to assign themselves | 16:12 |
| sdake | inc0 sounds good :) | 16:12 |
| srwilkers | sounds good | 16:12 |
| sdake | inc0 who is writing the blueprints? | 16:12 |
| inc0 | agree sdake I don't think we'll handle it all in ocata, but thats fine | 16:12 |
| portdirect | +1 | 16:13 |
| inc0 | I can do this, but I'd like people to review them and fill up details | 16:13 |
| inc0 | and maybe assign themselves:) | 16:13 |
| inc0 | if we won't do it all in Ocata, well, such is life | 16:13 |
| sdake | inc0 we have a large community that doesn't attend this irc meeting, so people will assign themselves outside of this meeting as well :) | 16:13 |
| inc0 | but we should have record of it for future sake | 16:13 |
| srwilkers | if you need any help inc0, lmk | 16:13 |
| sdake | inc0 ya we never did all the work we wanted ot do in teh past :) | 16:14 |
| inc0 | k, thanks, I'll send out ML info afterwards | 16:14 |
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| inc0 | if you guys want to register bp yourself (especially if you know more about the item/are interested in it and can fill up details) | 16:15 |
| inc0 | make note of it in etherpad and go ahead | 16:15 |
| inc0 | just make sure to add link to bp back to etherpad afterwards | 16:15 |
| inc0 | take a look at other etherpads from summit and do the same | 16:15 |
| portdirect | will do, I'm also up for any call's to action for things that need att | 16:15 |
| coolsvap | inc0: i would just recommend to have around 10 mins each week to track bp status which we think are important, just to ensure they are not blocked | 16:15 |
| inc0 | I'll keep filling bps | 16:16 |
| inc0 | appreciate that guys | 16:16 |
| inc0 | coolsvap, it's not mine to say what's important tho;) | 16:16 |
| inc0 | but that's different matter | 16:16 |
| inc0 | #action translate etherpad lines to blueprints and add a link to etherpad | 16:17 |
| inc0 | anyone wants to add anything to this topic? We'll take a look at these blueprints next week | 16:18 |
| inc0 | let's make sure that they're filled with knowledge | 16:18 |
| pbourke | inc0: sounds like a good plan | 16:18 |
| coolsvap | inc0: yes but we need some way to track, we can discuss on channel | 16:18 |
| coolsvap | inc0: pbourke +1 | 16:18 |
| inc0 | launchpad is the tracker:) | 16:18 |
| inc0 | ok, moving on | 16:18 |
| inc0 | rhallisey, take on kolla-k8s plz | 16:19 |
| pbourke | inc0: dont forget to include the k8s work | 16:19 |
| rhallisey | #topic kolla-kubernetes spec | 16:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kolla-kubernetes spec (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:19 | |
| pbourke | assuming that is all part of the same launchpad? | 16:19 |
| rhallisey | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/392257/5 | 16:19 |
| inc0 | pbourke, kolla-k8s work goes to kolla-k8s launchpad | 16:19 |
| sdake | rhallisey nice job on that spec bro | 16:19 |
| rhallisey | pbourke, I've got most of it already in the launchpad | 16:19 |
| pbourke | inc0: ah thanks | 16:19 |
| sdake | rhallisey i think it needs a little fine tuning | 16:19 |
| sdake | rhallisey you probablly have an election hangover ;) | 16:19 |
| rhallisey | sdake, thx. Ya still iterating on it | 16:19 |
| rhallisey | we're getting some good feedback on the spec | 16:20 |
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| rhallisey | indeed | 16:20 |
| sdake | rhallisey when can you ahve the next iteration ready? | 16:20 |
| rhallisey | sdake, uh soon, I just posted a wave of new comments | 16:20 |
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| sdake | oh cool i'll check that out | 16:20 |
| rhallisey | so for everyone that hasn't seen it, check out the spec | 16:20 |
| rhallisey | it is meant to outline where the project is going to go | 16:21 |
| sdake | rhallisey would you mind yielidng the floor to me when you wrap up :) | 16:21 |
| rhallisey | there is a ton to discuss in there, so please leave your feedback | 16:21 |
| rhallisey | sdake do you want to comment on the spec or something else? | 16:21 |
| rhallisey | I wanted to breifly touch on operators | 16:21 |
| pbourke | rhallisey: its essentially to do pocs though right? | 16:21 |
| pbourke | rhallisey: the project may go in a different direction based on the outcome | 16:22 |
| sdake | rhallisey I just want to also point out this review: | 16:22 |
| sdake | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395636/ | 16:22 |
| sdake | rhallisey i'd like your +2 on it :) | 16:22 |
| rhallisey | pbourke, yes, the first thing we need to do is to get POCs rolling | 16:22 |
| sdake | and kevins +2+w | 16:22 |
| pprokop | yeah i think helm should be first | 16:22 |
| sdake | or visa-versa | 16:22 |
| zhubingbing | have break，is kolla-k8s an independent project , it has no relationship with kolla? | 16:22 |
| pbourke | rhallisey: so I would suggest putting a time limit on this spec | 16:22 |
| sdake | zhubingbing its a deliverable of the kolla project | 16:22 |
| inc0 | yeah helm is pretty well defined already and pocs are inprog | 16:22 |
| rhallisey | sdake, kk | 16:22 |
| pbourke | rhallisey: get the ball rolling as people will talk for weeks on this stuff | 16:23 |
| rhallisey | pbourke, agreed, I'll throw something on the ML | 16:23 |
| sdake | ya we dont need a full analysis | 16:23 |
| inc0 | srwilkers any updates on that front? | 16:23 |
| sdake | enough people are lined up to do the work | 16:23 |
| duonghq | zhubingbing, it's equivalent to kolla-ansible (after repo-split) | 16:23 |
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| sdake | and i think we have a clear picture of where we are headed | 16:23 |
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| sdake | pbourke ++ :) | 16:23 |
| rhallisey | so a week from the origion post date | 16:23 |
| rhallisey | that was yesterday | 16:23 |
| rhallisey | Nov 15th we will close this out | 16:23 |
| srwilkers | inc0 not yet from us, should have something soon | 16:23 |
| inc0 | kk | 16:23 |
| rhallisey | sdake, did you have anything else to mention? I'll check out that review | 16:24 |
| inc0 | one question for broader audience, operators, will they solve following problems: 1. dependency 2. ceph rbd lock pulling for mariadb | 16:24 |
| inc0 | ? | 16:24 |
| rhallisey | inc0, I'll get to that | 16:24 |
| pprokop | If you want I can prepare a demo if kubernetes-entrypoint for you | 16:24 |
| inc0 | kk | 16:24 |
| sdake | rhallisey just the review | 16:24 |
| rhallisey | sdake, kk | 16:25 |
| sdake | inc0 operators will sole deps | 16:25 |
| inc0 | pprokop, yes please, ideally with readiness probes | 16:25 |
| pprokop | Yep | 16:25 |
| sdake | inc0 operators will not solve fencing | 16:25 |
| sdake | inc0 i think that is a separate thing | 16:25 |
| rhallisey | pprokop, hey! Yes that'd be cool too. I want to explore all the options here | 16:25 |
| rhallisey | # topic Operators | 16:25 |
| rhallisey | #topic Operators | 16:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Operators (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:25 | |
| rhallisey | #link https://github.com/coreos/etcd-operator | 16:25 |
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| rhallisey | looks like sdake answer it | 16:26 |
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| inc0 | so my understanding of what operators are is just oposite - will potentially solve fenicing, will not solve deps | 16:26 |
| pprokop | +1 | 16:26 |
| sdake | let me explain operators in a nutshell | 16:26 |
| rhallisey | inc0, for fencing, I think that needs to be solved on the Kube side, but we could solve it here | 16:26 |
| inc0 | we did kinda solve it with fencing pod | 16:26 |
| inc0 | and operator is similar to this | 16:26 |
| sdake | no | 16:27 |
| sdake | so, let me explain plz | 16:27 |
| pbourke | sdake: can you explain in the spec? | 16:27 |
| sdake | there is a kubernetes pattern called a controller | 16:27 |
| sdake | a controller does the following: | 16:27 |
| sdake | 1. creates db | 16:27 |
| sdake | 2. creates users | 16:27 |
| sdake | 3. whatever else is needed fo rthe service | 16:27 |
| sdake | 4. spins waiting for dependencies to be met (e.g. mariadb is a dep) | 16:28 |
| sdake | 5. launches after 4 | 16:28 |
| sdake | an operator is a container that runs a daemonized version of a controller | 16:28 |
| sdake | the terms come from kubernetes community | 16:29 |
| sdake | its not like I made em up | 16:29 |
| sdake | at CNCF this model is super hot and talk of the show | 16:29 |
| sdake | this is how all kube apps will be done in the future | 16:29 |
| sdake | pbourke oh explain in the spec | 16:30 |
| sdake | pbourke sorry i thought you meant explain the spec | 16:30 |
| sdake | (misread) | 16:30 |
| pbourke | sounds like they're going to reimplement ansible :p | 16:30 |
| sdake | pbourke i think the spec explains operators | 16:30 |
| vbel | so there will be operator service :) and another operator for passive backup? | 16:30 |
| sdake | pbourke right sort of | 16:30 |
| inc0 | ssshhh | 16:30 |
| pbourke | sdake: no worries we can drop your explanation in there | 16:30 |
| sdake | vbel right | 16:30 |
| rhallisey | I can capture this in my next iteration, but it would be good to commet there | 16:30 |
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| sdake | vbel operator per microservice, operator per service, one operator for all of openstack | 16:31 |
| vbel | sdake, I see, thanks | 16:31 |
| inc0 | like roles tasks and playbooks | 16:31 |
| inc0 | yay | 16:31 |
| vbel | hierarchy in other words :) | 16:31 |
| sdake | vbel we need m0ar minerals, so if you can sign up as a contributor it would be appreciated ;) | 16:31 |
| zhubingbing | pool-service | 16:31 |
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| sdake | asytronauts-as-a-service ;-) | 16:32 |
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| srwilkers | starcraft references make me so happy | 16:32 |
| portdirect | k8s loves controllers - they use this nonclamenture on everything from repcontrollers up i think. | 16:32 |
| vbel | sdake, :))) | 16:32 |
| sdake | yup controllers are basically kubernetes version of plugins | 16:32 |
| rhallisey | ok any more comments? Be sure to follow up in the spec :) | 16:32 |
| inc0 | looking for volunteers to write a poc of operator | 16:33 |
| sdake | and operators are kubernetes version of how the plugin code plugs in for multinode suppport | 16:33 |
| zhubingbing | the etcd is the core. in k8s | 16:33 |
| sdake | inc0 i'm on that | 16:33 |
| rhallisey | I'll join sdake on that | 16:33 |
| duonghq | zhubingbing, what is your point? | 16:33 |
| sdake | sounds good rhallisey | 16:33 |
| sdake | any others want to pile on on the prototype ? :) | 16:33 |
| inc0 | ok, I'd be interested to see it as my understanding of this matter is clearly lacking | 16:33 |
| sdake | inc0 ya i've had a whole lotta conversations with people here at cncf about it | 16:34 |
| portdirect | is anyone working on poc's atm? (I assume they are - it would be great to get an overview to make sure we dont come to the take with a bunch of identically skinned cats :) ) | 16:34 |
| sdake | its not immediately intuitive | 16:34 |
| sdake | but once you think it through its really the only way to roll :) | 16:34 |
| sdake | portdirect what i'm thinking is we implement a base class | 16:34 |
| inc0 | so question, pprokop and others, are operators alternative to entrypoint for deps? | 16:34 |
| pprokop | at first glance | 16:35 |
| sdake | portdirect and then implement a whole lot of code that imports the base | 16:35 |
| pprokop | check github.com/mirantis/k8s-appcontroller | 16:35 |
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| sdake | pprokop i haven't looked at k8s-appcontroller | 16:35 |
| portdirect | sdake: +1 | 16:35 |
| sdake | is it generic in nature, or is it specific to openstack? | 16:35 |
| pprokop | generic | 16:35 |
| sdake | and is it one operator per microservice, or one operator for the whole schebang | 16:35 |
| pprokop | not tied to openstack | 16:35 |
| pprokop | you can spin up as many as you want | 16:36 |
| sdake | i think we want more flexibility then a generic service may offer | 16:36 |
| pprokop | this is just dependency resolver | 16:36 |
| pprokop | in future it will be more | 16:36 |
| berendt | o/ sorry i am late, i forgot the time changeover | 16:36 |
| sdake | cool will take a look | 16:36 |
| sdake | sup berendt | 16:36 |
| rhallisey | ya same | 16:36 |
| rhallisey | k inc0 continue on | 16:37 |
| inc0 | sdake, since you're on kubecon, ask around how people deal with these issues | 16:37 |
| inc0 | ok? | 16:37 |
| sdake | inc0 i have | 16:37 |
| sdake | the answer is microservices shouldn't hae dependencies | 16:37 |
| sdake | which is wholy unsatisifying | 16:38 |
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| sdake | I come up with a simple example | 16:38 |
| inc0 | that's a perfectly useless answer | 16:38 |
| inc0 | good answer, but useless | 16:38 |
| sdake | and they respond with something like "well microservices are hip!" | 16:38 |
| rhallisey | ya there isn't a need to deal with complex apps | 16:38 |
| sdake | there isn't at this point in time | 16:38 |
| sdake | there will be in the future | 16:38 |
| rhallisey | we'll we have mircro services, but they make up a complex app.. | 16:38 |
| inc0 | unless we want to forget having database in k8s | 16:38 |
| inc0 | I'd say there is | 16:38 |
| inc0 | but meh | 16:39 |
| inc0 | who needs persistent data, that's soo 2000's | 16:39 |
| sdake | inc0 i was speaking of the pOV of the kubernetes devs | 16:39 |
| sdake | they are building "bulding blocks" atm | 16:39 |
| sdake | inc0 not applications | 16:39 |
| sdake | people that buidl applications have to actually solve these problems | 16:39 |
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| sdake | we are not building a buidling block, we are building an application | 16:39 |
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| sdake | hence their opinions don't take into account our requirements | 16:40 |
| sdake | they take into account their requirements | 16:40 |
| sdake | hence why kubernetes doesn't have built in dependencies | 16:40 |
| inc0 | which is dangerous on the long run | 16:40 |
| sdake | there is a disconnect we can't fix in the short term atm | 16:40 |
| sdake | inc0 agree completely (if you mean the disconnect) | 16:40 |
| inc0 | I do mean disconnect | 16:40 |
| rhallisey | interesting | 16:40 |
| rhallisey | sdake, glad you went and got to talk to some devs | 16:41 |
| inc0 | answer "don't do complex stuff" is not an answer | 16:41 |
| sdake | rhallisey blame cisco for paying the bill :) | 16:41 |
| portdirect | to play devils advocate: what deps do we need to account for? just the db and rabbit? | 16:41 |
| sdake | inc0 right | 16:41 |
| sdake | inc0 i am mostly listening not arguing with these guys | 16:41 |
| sdake | inc0 i can be an asshat in openstack - people will tolerate that | 16:41 |
| inc0 | portdirect, nova depends on keysone, keystone depends on db | 16:41 |
| sdake | inc0 but in a new community best to fly under radar and just listen in :) | 16:42 |
| inc0 | nova depends on existance of nova database in mariadb, nova user in keystone | 16:42 |
| rhallisey | inc0, each service depends on another, which amplifies throughout the entire lifecycle | 16:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | portdirect: another exampl the ovs agent depend on the ovs-vswitchd and that depends on the ovsdb | 16:42 |
| sdake | portdirect there are hundresd of examples | 16:42 |
| portdirect | :) | 16:42 |
| sdake | the above is only a sampling ;) | 16:42 |
| inc0 | world without dependencies is beautiful world that does not exist | 16:42 |
| sdake | inc0 lol starwars universe! | 16:42 |
| sdake | rather star trek.. | 16:43 |
| * sdake flounders for words | 16:43 | |
| inc0 | all depends on the Force | 16:43 |
| portdirect | sounds in space :) | 16:43 |
| sdake | i meant star trek | 16:43 |
| sdake | where there is no moey | 16:43 |
| sdake | and everyone works for free ;) | 16:43 |
| duonghq | rhallisey, we have not addressed deps fully in kolla-ansible. too (IMO) | 16:43 |
| srwilkers | independent applications, the final frontier | 16:43 |
| rhallisey | there are not the dependencies you're looking for | 16:43 |
| DTadrzak | sorry guys but i still don't understand why you dont want to use kubernetes-entrypoint to solve that problem | 16:43 |
| inc0 | ok, let's move on | 16:43 |
| rhallisey | duonghq, how so | 16:43 |
| inc0 | DTadrzak, it's about what k8s community will do | 16:44 |
| rhallisey | duonghq, maybe we can adress that in #openstack-kolla after | 16:44 |
| duonghq | rhallisey, I mean cross-project dependency, agreed | 16:44 |
| inc0 | we don't want to sway for "the k8s way" | 16:44 |
| inc0 | as it will bite us at the end | 16:44 |
| sdake | DTadrzak ithere is more to it | 16:44 |
| rhallisey | DTadrzak, here's my opinion. I don't like baking any dependency logic into the containers | 16:44 |
| sdake | DTadrzak kfox (who isnt' here unfortunately) is not keen on entrypoint because it creates a self-assimilating system | 16:44 |
| inc0 | rhallisey, we don't technically bake it into containers | 16:45 |
| rhallisey | super scary | 16:45 |
| sdake | DTadrzak so if something goes wrong, it is impossible to diagnose | 16:45 |
| sdake | and also impossible to correct | 16:45 |
| inc0 | we can bake mechanism into containers and pass deps in ENV or whatever | 16:45 |
| rhallisey | inc0, the logic would exist in them | 16:45 |
| pprokop | Wrong | 16:45 |
| inc0 | mechanism is fine to be there | 16:45 |
| inc0 | just a tool | 16:45 |
| pbourke | I suppose in a real cloud native app they will manage the dependencies more gracefully | 16:45 |
| portdirect | again playing devels advocate, my experience is that a roubust entrypoint mechanism is the solution (via init containers) as this gets round the self-assimilating problem | 16:45 |
| portdirect | *a not the | 16:45 |
| pbourke | e.g. nova will spin until it's entries in the db are ready | 16:45 |
| pbourke | rather than fall over | 16:45 |
| pprokop | Via job dependency | 16:45 |
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| rhallisey | portdirect, but then you need to solve all problem for all scenarios | 16:46 |
| inc0 | so algorithm with entrypoint is actually very elegant and super distributed | 16:46 |
| pprokop | No | 16:46 |
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| sdake | it is super distributed | 16:46 |
| inc0 | I wanted to rewrite heat to use something of that sort;) | 16:46 |
| sdake | it just doesn't work in practice | 16:46 |
| pprokop | one just prepare a configurtion | 16:46 |
| sdake | we tried it | 16:46 |
| sdake | twice | 16:46 |
| sdake | failed both times | 16:46 |
| inc0 | nah, it will work | 16:46 |
| sdake | reference compose, reference kolla-mesos | 16:46 |
| sdake | it works 19 time sout of 20 | 16:46 |
| inc0 | if you have single source of truth | 16:46 |
| pprokop | Stackanetes and fuel-ccp works that way | 16:46 |
| sdake | pprokop ok, well they are not our reference architecture ;) | 16:46 |
| pbourke | anyone want to explain entrypoint? | 16:47 |
| inc0 | neither compose or mesos used this model really | 16:47 |
| sdake | and if they do work this way i htink they are probably unrelaible | 16:47 |
| pprokop | github.com/stackanetes/kubernetes-entrypoint | 16:47 |
| inc0 | pbourke, idea is that when we start a pod there will be mechanism inside container | 16:47 |
| inc0 | that will loop and ask kubectl | 16:47 |
| sdake | pprokop i think pbourke was looking for a 90 second elevator ptich not a dig into the repo thing :) | 16:47 |
| pprokop | Okay | 16:47 |
| pprokop | So entrypoint basically queries an k8s api | 16:47 |
| inc0 | "my deps are - mariadb pod ready, mariadb-boostrap job finished" | 16:47 |
| portdirect | pbourke: essentially an init script that checks sanity before launching the container proper | 16:48 |
| inc0 | dear k8s, are both of these in state I want them to be | 16:48 |
| pbourke | sounds good | 16:48 |
| pprokop | to resolve dependencies before execing into proper application | 16:48 |
| inc0 | no = go to sleep for a moment and reiterate | 16:48 |
| inc0 | yes = move on with stuff | 16:48 |
| portdirect | either using k8s api, or direcly testing the service | 16:48 |
| sdake | right, so our model we are proceeding with is to do whatentrypoint does (in the nova-api container for e.g.) | 16:48 |
| pbourke | but maybe too primitive? | 16:48 |
| sdake | instead in an operator | 16:48 |
| pprokop | We mixed it because we rely on k8s to report if something is ready | 16:48 |
| inc0 | gives you pretty elegant graph resolving mechanism | 16:48 |
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| pprokop | and we prepared a rediness probes | 16:49 |
| sdake | for complete reliability | 16:49 |
| sdake | the big issue for operators is diagnostics | 16:49 |
| sdake | stuff that magically does magical dependency resolution is not debuggable according to kfox1111 | 16:49 |
| inc0 | sdake, diagnostics is solvable with external toolsed | 16:49 |
| inc0 | toolset | 16:49 |
| sean-k-mooney | entrypoints almost sound like they want to treat a pod like a fat contaienr with an init system like systemd .... | 16:49 |
| sdake | inc0 not according to kfox1111 | 16:49 |
| sdake | sean-k-mooney you got it | 16:49 |
| inc0 | trust me on that, we can make it work | 16:49 |
| pprokop | One just put entrypoint in init container | 16:50 |
| pprokop | and you can see whats happening on k8s api | 16:50 |
| sdake | the "new" model is operators to do this job with controllers | 16:50 |
| sdake | the "last gen model" was to bake it into the container | 16:50 |
| inc0 | controllers sounds to me like this magical external thing | 16:50 |
| sdake | according to the CNCF dudes at this conference | 16:50 |
| inc0 | which will be prone to race conditions and stuff | 16:50 |
| rhallisey | inc0, ya but, entrypoint sounds like magical internal thing | 16:51 |
| pprokop | still it introduces another orchestartion levels | 16:51 |
| sdake | pprokop a controller is a plugin, we are using that plugin to do orchestration | 16:51 |
| inc0 | yeah, I agree with pprokop, this is just another abstraction layer | 16:51 |
| rhallisey | inc0, it would use the kubeapi | 16:51 |
| sdake | entrypoint is a plugin to docker, we arenot using that to do orchestration | 16:51 |
| pprokop | i like to call it choreography | 16:51 |
| inc0 | lmao | 16:51 |
| pprokop | each container is self aware of deps | 16:51 |
| sdake | pprokop call it what you like its orchestration :) | 16:51 |
| inc0 | that's a word I've never heard in this context | 16:52 |
| pprokop | nope | 16:52 |
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| DTadrzak | it's not an orchestration it is choreography | 16:52 |
| sdake | ok well lets agree to disagree then | 16:52 |
| sdake | i have never heard of this term | 16:52 |
| inc0 | whatever we call it | 16:52 |
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| sdake | i'll ask around | 16:52 |
| rhallisey | ok anyway :) | 16:53 |
| inc0 | let's do PoC of both ok? | 16:53 |
| sdake | here is the deal | 16:53 |
| inc0 | I'll try to break them and we'll see what breaks | 16:53 |
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| inc0 | I like breaking distributed systems | 16:53 |
| sdake | we can make something generic or we can pin ourselves into the back corner | 16:53 |
| pbourke | sdake may be absolutely correct, we wont know till we try | 16:53 |
| sdake | generic = operators | 16:53 |
| sdake | entrypoint = back corner | 16:54 |
| inc0 | sdake, I disagree | 16:54 |
| inc0 | but again, PoC | 16:54 |
| sdake | that is my opinion based upon 2 years of experience | 16:54 |
| sdake | pbourke you have a keen point there | 16:54 |
| sdake | pbourke i do know entrypoint model is not reliable | 16:54 |
| sdake | i do not know if operator model is reliable | 16:55 |
| sdake | that is why I am more keen to try it | 16:55 |
| rhallisey | I'm in the same camp as sdake, but for me entrypoint = scary. I don't think ops will like it | 16:55 |
| sdake | and back it with resources ;) | 16:55 |
| rhallisey | yar | 16:55 |
| inc0 | and I disagree with it being unreliable:) | 16:55 |
| rhallisey | Poc battle | 16:55 |
| sdake | lets not fracture our own community guys | 16:55 |
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| inc0 | and I'm operator myself | 16:55 |
| inc0 | this is good fracture to have for time being | 16:56 |
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| pprokop | I can give you a demo next week of entrypoint | 16:56 |
| inc0 | architecture of distributed systems i hard | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | ya I find this to be productive | 16:56 |
| sdake | pprokop i unerstand entrypoint, as Ie did this model in compose | 16:56 |
| portdirect | lol - lets just try each and see which works out :) | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | lots of perspectives | 16:56 |
| inc0 | sdake, it's totally different than what we had in compose | 16:56 |
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| sdake | there is another proble mwith entyrpoint | 16:56 |
| inc0 | *totally* different | 16:56 |
| sdake | it requires non-generic containers | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | ok ok | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | let's roll over if we need to folks | 16:56 |
| sdake | as in, they wont work with ansible... | 16:57 |
| inc0 | for one, you have single source of truth here | 16:57 |
| rhallisey | we need to hit open discussion | 16:57 |
| inc0 | that is k8s | 16:57 |
| rhallisey | and we have the spec still | 16:57 |
| rhallisey | #topic Open Discussion | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:57 | |
| inc0 | this is *not* a compose and won't suffer from same problems | 16:57 |
| inc0 | race conditions in compose were caused by lack of reliable source of truth about state of our system | 16:58 |
| portdirect | my work was based on the compose stuff you guys did | 16:58 |
| sdake | inc0 if you say so :) | 16:58 |
| inc0 | and k8s will give us that | 16:58 |
| rhallisey | ugh guys let's carry this over | 16:58 |
| rhallisey | this will go on for dayzz | 16:58 |
| inc0 | yeah, we need to finish this meeting | 16:58 |
| inc0 | :)_ | 16:58 |
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| inc0 | any last remarks before we kill each other with sharp tools? | 16:58 |
| inc0 | guess not:) thanks all! | 16:59 |
| srwilkers | and silence | 16:59 |
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| rhallisey | :) | 16:59 |
| inc0 | #endmeeting kolla | 16:59 |
| portdirect | I've only got a spoon :( | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:59 | |
| rhallisey | thanks everyone | 16:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 9 16:59:14 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-11-09-15.59.html | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-11-09-15.59.txt | 16:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-11-09-15.59.log.html | 16:59 |
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| sdake | portdirect there is no spoon! | 16:59 |
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| zhubingbing | bye-) | 16:59 |
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| lindycoder | Wasn't there supposed to be a neutron-lib meeting ? | 17:35 |
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| robputt | Good evening | 19:03 |
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