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| Santosh | HI | 14:37 |
|---|---|---|
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| sbadia | o/ | 14:59 |
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| crinkle | #startmeeting puppet-openstack | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 24 14:59:59 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is crinkle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'puppet_openstack' | 15:00 |
| crinkle | morning | 15:00 |
| sbadia | hi | 15:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 15:00 |
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| mgagne | o/ | 15:01 |
| xingchao | hi | 15:01 |
| crinkle | #topic should we elect a PTL? | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "should we elect a PTL? (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:01 | |
| mgagne | yes | 15:02 |
| crinkle | I think it would be good to have an actual PTL, whether or not we "big tent" | 15:02 |
| mdorman | so that is basically teh first step to becoming acore project right? | 15:02 |
| EmilienM | I think so | 15:02 |
| mdorman | +1 on that too | 15:02 |
| crinkle | we have to have some sort of agreed-upon leadership | 15:02 |
| mgagne | I think it would make our project a bit more "official" and serious | 15:02 |
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| * EmilienM agrees with mgagne | 15:03 | |
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| mdorman | so people would need ot nominate themselves on teh ML, an then somehow we vote after that, yes? | 15:04 |
| sbadia | it is therefore based on a person? :-) (horizontal hierarchy suits me) | 15:04 |
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| crinkle | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Guide | 15:04 |
| mgagne | mdorman: I think it's the suggested/preferred method by OpenStack | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | sbadia: I think we keep horizontal model, like do other projects | 15:04 |
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| crinkle | the PTL would mainly have final say in disputes, not necessarily push us in any one direction | 15:05 |
| crinkle | is how I read that | 15:05 |
| sbadia | hum ok, if it's to look like other projects | 15:05 |
| mgagne | yep, that's how I see it | 15:05 |
| crinkle | sbadia: I think we should do it for reasons other than to look like other projects | 15:05 |
| crinkle | so if you disagree we should discuss it | 15:06 |
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| sbadia | yep, I'll prepare an email (my ideas are not yet ready) | 15:06 |
| crinkle | okay | 15:07 |
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| crinkle | #action sbadia will bring up concerns on the mailing list | 15:07 |
| sbadia | :D | 15:07 |
| Hunner | Seems like there is lots of organizing involved for the PTL too, not just resolving disputes | 15:07 |
| mgagne | it's also a way to a single point of contact in case someone from openstack wishes to ask questions about our project | 15:07 |
| mgagne | Hunner: IMO, it's also the one that makes sure tasks get done (by someone): release, bug triage, reviews, etc. | 15:08 |
| EmilienM | I think there is no hierarchy in our goals - we just need to scale up our work, we have a lot of things to improve and a PTL could help | 15:08 |
| EmilienM | ie: release management / bug triage | 15:08 |
| mgagne | PTL doesn't have to do everything by him/herself | 15:08 |
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| EmilienM | hopefully | 15:09 |
| mgagne | it HAS to be this way otherwise PTL will burn him/herself at the task | 15:10 |
| mgagne | and we don't want that | 15:10 |
| Hunner | Seems like there should be an openstack-puppet specific mandate for the PTL to limit burn-out then | 15:10 |
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| mgagne | :D | 15:10 |
| Hunner | or a blueprint or something :P | 15:11 |
| Hunner | Can you make blueprints for PTLs? | 15:11 |
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| mdorman | maybe as part of our ML discussion we aim to build a ‘job description’ for the PTL. outlining specific responsibilities that person needs to do, as well as those that fall on the group at large | 15:12 |
| crinkle | ++ | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | Hunner: everything is already documented I think | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | crinkle gave the link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Guide | 15:12 |
| Hunner | I don't think the ptl_guide has enough info for scope | 15:12 |
| Hunner | mdorman: +1 | 15:12 |
| sbadia | yep +1 | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | yes, so we can define this text on puppet openstack specs, using gerrit | 15:13 |
| mgagne | we are a community and everyone should be able to contribute to the expectation of a potential PTL. lets take it to the ML as suggested by mdorman | 15:13 |
| Hunner | Okay, should we have a target date for "job description" and PTL choosing? Or should they be organic? | 15:13 |
| xingchao | mgagne: +1 | 15:13 |
| mdorman | i say target by next week’s meeting to have that wrapped up. so at meeting next week we can open up PTL nominations | 15:14 |
| mdorman | (imo) | 15:14 |
| EmilienM | so people can review inline as a regular blueprint | 15:14 |
| mdorman | EmilienM: i like it | 15:14 |
| mgagne | can we use the ML instead? I feel this could be something that could rapidly evolve over time | 15:15 |
| mgagne | I feel spec are too formal for this kind of discussion | 15:15 |
| crinkle | I agree with mgagne | 15:15 |
| mdorman | i’m fine either way | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | ok with ML | 15:16 |
| sbadia | ok for me too | 15:16 |
| mgagne | lets start small so future PTL doesn't feel overwhelm by the amount of tasks and responsibility =) | 15:16 |
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| xingchao | how did other openstack project elect PTL? | 15:17 |
| mfisch | sorry I'm late | 15:17 |
| Hunner | +1 ; we can always add more later | 15:17 |
| EmilienM | mgagne: who run the thread? | 15:17 |
| EmilienM | xingchao: if more than one person apply, there is an election - otherwise no election | 15:17 |
| mfisch | I actually think we should ask people to vote regardless, I know that sounds kind of crazy | 15:18 |
| mgagne | mfisch: we need more than one candidate to vote =) | 15:18 |
| mdorman | well if there’s only one nominee, then it’s just ‘thums up/thumbs down’ vote | 15:19 |
| mdorman | as long as up > down, they’re elected | 15:19 |
| xingchao | EmilienM: got it | 15:19 |
| mfisch | I guess I want to avoid someone nominating themselves and it becoming PTL by fiat without discussion or reflection | 15:20 |
| Hunner | "Elections will be held using CIVS and a Condorcet algorithm (Schulze/Beatpath/CSSD variant). Any tie will be broken using Governance/TieBreaking." | 15:20 |
| Hunner | Sounds complicated :o | 15:20 |
| dvorak | sure, I think thumbs up/down is fine. The number of candidates is pretty small and likely uncontraversial | 15:20 |
| Hunner | But job description first. By next meeting? Or two, to give time? | 15:20 |
| dvorak | and yeah, actual voting if we have more than one candidate | 15:20 |
| EmilienM | Hunner: that's when you have more than one person applying | 15:20 |
| mgagne | Hunner: I think we can ask others about vote system if we need assistance | 15:21 |
| Hunner | EmilienM: Yeah, I know :) | 15:21 |
| Hunner | mgagne: I assume it's more or less "thumbs up/down with a fancy name" :) | 15:21 |
| mdorman | i think job description by next meeting. | 15:21 |
| dvorak | it's a variant of ranked voting, like IRV | 15:21 |
| dvorak | we probably should have done it for the meeting time :) | 15:22 |
| mgagne | Hunner: I don't know the exact algorithm but I guess there's more to it =) | 15:22 |
| mfisch | its easy to setup | 15:22 |
| crinkle | it seems like we have a lot to discuss on the mailing list, let's take it there | 15:23 |
| mgagne | yep | 15:23 |
| mdorman | +1 let’s move on | 15:23 |
| Hunner | We should probably just add "voting method" to next weeks agenda | 15:23 |
| Hunner | or yeah, ml | 15:23 |
| dvorak | well, or worry about it more than one person self-nominates :) | 15:23 |
| crinkle | #topic review/bug triage | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review/bug triage (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:23 | |
| crinkle | this was mfisch's idea to start doing, mfisch how do you propose we go about this? | 15:23 |
| dvorak | My thought was that we'd just have a dedicated time in the schedule each week for people to bring up specific bugs or reviews that need discussion or attention | 15:24 |
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| mfisch | doesnt puppet labs do somthing similar? | 15:24 |
| crinkle | anyone have specific bugs or reviews we should look at? | 15:25 |
| mdorman | i think we should just try to reserve the last 15-20 mins of the meeting time for that purpose. | 15:25 |
| crinkle | yes we do something similar | 15:25 |
| dvorak | I would have, but sbadia took care of mine for me :) | 15:25 |
| mgagne | I suggest we close all released bugs and I propose myself for the task | 15:25 |
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| crinkle | mgagne: ++ | 15:25 |
| Hunner | mfisch: Yeah, in a google hangout or bluejeans video chat. | 15:25 |
| EmilienM | mgagne: +1 - thanks a lot | 15:25 |
| sbadia | dvorak: ;-) | 15:26 |
| Hunner | mfisch: In PL we ask for any proposed reviews to look at, and if no one has anything then we just pick a module and start going down the review list | 15:26 |
| crinkle | mdorman: should we change the topic to "open discussion" and do triage later? | 15:26 |
| mdorman | that’s how the meeting flow makes sense to me. are we done with everything else that was on the agenda for today? | 15:26 |
| crinkle | yep https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/PuppetOpenStack#New_Items | 15:27 |
| mdorman | but i have no strong preference. i mean if it makes more sense to triage first, that’s fine. | 15:27 |
| mfisch | other stuff first | 15:27 |
| crinkle | okay | 15:27 |
| crinkle | #topic open discussion | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:27 | |
| mfisch | but now we're having a meta discussion on triage | 15:27 |
| crinkle | haha | 15:27 |
| dvorak | both of them are potentially unlimited topics, so just depends on preference I think | 15:27 |
| mdorman | i’m just imagining that we tell people who wnat to discuss bugs to drop in at the last 20 min (or whatever) | 15:27 |
| mdorman | dvorak: yeah that’s kinda what i’m thinking. both would need to be time-bound | 15:28 |
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| dvorak | mdorman: what I've seen done on the puppet triage calls is that they start off asking if anyone is there to talk about something specific so that people that don't normally attend don't have to sit through the whole thing | 15:29 |
| EmilienM | dvorak: that would be great yes | 15:29 |
| dvorak | specific = specfic bug or review | 15:29 |
| mdorman | yeah maybe that’s a good way to approach it | 15:29 |
| dvorak | at least that's my recollection from the 2-3 I've been to :) | 15:29 |
| mdorman | i guess we can just pick something to try, and can always adjust later | 15:30 |
| dvorak | +1 | 15:30 |
| EmilienM | +1 | 15:31 |
| crinkle | I'm not sure I see what the resolution is | 15:31 |
| mdorman | at teh end of the regular agenda, ask if anybody has any specific bug/review to call out | 15:32 |
| mfisch | I'd like to also pick a module and walk through bugs and reviews | 15:32 |
| mfisch | especially bugs since they get 0 attention now | 15:32 |
| mdorman | and if no, then move to on open discussion / general bug review | 15:32 |
| mfisch | my original intention was just for bug review TBH, but reviews also makes sense | 15:33 |
| Hunner | "flexible" is the word :) | 15:34 |
| mdorman | yeah we don’t need tons of structure on this | 15:34 |
| mfisch | +1 | 15:34 |
| Hunner | If there are high-profile reviews or bugs that we can't reach a conclusion on during the normal week, those are often the target of discussion during triage | 15:34 |
| mgagne | +1 | 15:35 |
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| crinkle | that sounds good to me | 15:36 |
| crinkle | are there any reviews or bugs to call out today? | 15:36 |
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| mdorman | this one is not all that important, but i have been struggling to get tests on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158898/ to work right | 15:37 |
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| mdorman | so have been meaning to ask for suggestions/help on that. | 15:38 |
| mgagne | mdorman: I can take a look at time after the meeting | 15:38 |
| mdorman | that’d be great, thanks. | 15:38 |
| mdorman | this is the core problem : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158898/3..4/spec/classes/nova_compute_libvirt_spec.rb when operatingsystemmajrelease is integer, some stuff fails, but when it’s a string, different stuff fails. | 15:38 |
| Hunner | mdorman: It looks like it's because the test has :provider => nil, but the params.pp would set it to init? | 15:39 |
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| Hunner | operatingsystemmajrelease would normally just be a string, since it's a fact... though now newer facters can return structured data, though that may still be only string types | 15:40 |
| mgagne | mdorman: AFAIK, facts are always a string | 15:40 |
| mdorman | yeah it’s related to the change from “everything is a string” to structured data stuff, i believe | 15:41 |
| mdorman | anywya we can take it off line | 15:42 |
| Hunner | `puppet apply -e "notice(inline_template('<%= @operatingsystemmajrelease.inspect %>'))"` says it's a string | 15:42 |
| Hunner | mdorman: Oh, sorry, is that not what this time is for? | 15:42 |
| mgagne | we can take it to our own channel =) | 15:43 |
| mdorman | i just did not want to consume all the time if others had topics | 15:43 |
| dvorak | well, sounds like we have plenty of people willing to help out, don't need to solve it during the meeting | 15:43 |
| Hunner | I mean, the topic is still open discussion, but I assumed after open time was review time... though I guess it could always finish up in #puppet-openstack | 15:43 |
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| mdorman | (that and i have not eaten breakfast yet, which i am going to do after this meeting is done. :) | 15:44 |
| mfisch | any objections to adding a module to the agenda to do some review/bug triage on? | 15:44 |
| mfisch | or do people want to pick next week's during this meeting | 15:44 |
| crinkle | if someone suggested one or two and just added it to the agenda i think that would be fine | 15:45 |
| mgagne | yep | 15:45 |
| mfisch | k | 15:45 |
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| mdorman | +1 | 15:46 |
| mfisch | Are we still in open time? | 15:48 |
| EmilienM | +1 | 15:48 |
| crinkle | I think we're in open discussion/review/bug time | 15:48 |
| EmilienM | mfisch: yes I guess so | 15:48 |
| mfisch | I'd like to request that someone send out the meeting notes to the ML along with the pointer to next week agenda | 15:48 |
| crinkle | I will do that | 15:48 |
| mfisch | thanks | 15:49 |
| sbadia | good idea! | 15:49 |
| sbadia | thanjs | 15:49 |
| EmilienM | crinkle: thanks | 15:50 |
| EmilienM | crinkle: that could be something in PTL tasks description :) | 15:50 |
| mfisch | Yes, agree | 15:50 |
| Hunner | EmilienM: Sounds like you should send the first ML post about the task description :) | 15:50 |
| mfisch | the PTL should be driving for sure but crinkle can manage for a few weeks i Think | 15:50 |
| crinkle | I think sbadia was going to start that discussion | 15:50 |
| sbadia | ok :) | 15:51 |
| EmilienM | Hunner: I was wondering who took this action | 15:52 |
| EmilienM | I'm fine with it okay | 15:52 |
| EmilienM | sbadia: if so, can you create an #action ? | 15:52 |
| crinkle | EmilienM: i already created an #action i believe | 15:52 |
| sbadia | EmilienM: I've already an action about that :) | 15:52 |
| mfisch | action: someone to make an action | 15:52 |
| sbadia | mfisch: :D | 15:53 |
| sbadia | mfisch: -2 | 15:53 |
| crinkle | are there any other reviews or bugs that people want to look at today? there's not enough time to dive into a module | 15:53 |
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| sbadia | seems no :) | 15:55 |
| dvorak | I think I missed open discussion, but I do have one other thing to bring up if we're done with bug/review time | 15:56 |
| crinkle | dvorak: go for it | 15:56 |
| dvorak | Tim sent out an email last night about planning for the Ops Summit in Vancouver. Do we expect we'll get time to meet outside of that, or should we be pushing to be included in that? | 15:57 |
| crinkle | last time we had a design session and an ops session, i think we should try to do the same this time | 15:57 |
| mdorman | i think we should propose a working group sesion | 15:57 |
| mfisch | I was going to ask him directly | 15:57 |
| mfisch | we need official space/time unlike in Philly | 15:58 |
| dvorak | yes. I put a comment to that effect on the planning etherpad, but I wasn't sure of the status | 15:58 |
| crinkle | i think we're about to get kicked out and i have a standup to go to | 15:58 |
| EmilienM | it was about concerns | 15:58 |
| EmilienM | but okay :) | 15:58 |
| crinkle | i will add this to the agenda for next week | 15:58 |
| dvorak | that works | 15:58 |
| crinkle | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 15:58:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-24-14.59.html | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-24-14.59.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-24-14.59.log.html | 15:58 |
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