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| pennerc | #join openstack-glance | 13:15 |
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| nikhil_k | #startmeeting Glance | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 12 14:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 14:00 |
| nikhil_k | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda | 14:00 |
| kragniz | yo yo | 14:00 |
| kragniz | o/ | 14:00 |
| pkoniszewski | o/ | 14:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 14:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 14:00 |
| ativelkov | o/ | 14:00 |
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| Nikolay_St | щ. | 14:01 |
| Nikolay_St | o/ | 14:01 |
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| cpallares | o/ | 14:01 |
| TravT | o/ | 14:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 14:01 |
| Olena | o/ | 14:01 |
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| jokke_ | o/ | 14:01 |
| ivasilevskaya | o/ | 14:01 |
| jokke_ | wow ... we have good participation today :D | 14:01 |
| mfedosin | o/ | 14:02 |
| nikhil_k | cool, looks like a full house | 14:02 |
| hemanthm | o/ | 14:02 |
| lakshmiS | o/ | 14:02 |
| nikhil_k | #topic K3 | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "K3 (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:02 | |
| nikhil_k | https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/kilo-3 | 14:02 |
| nikhil_k | Seems like a lot of them merged | 14:03 |
| nikhil_k | (very recently) | 14:03 |
| nikhil_k | A few that we need today merged are | 14:03 |
| nikhil_k | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/basic-import-conversion <- point of contact flaper87 | 14:03 |
| jokke_ | ativelkov: thanks for the docstrings ... made it so much easier to follow | 14:03 |
| nikhil_k | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/glance-sorting-enhancements <- POC mfedosin | 14:03 |
| flaper87 | 0/ | 14:04 |
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| ativelkov | jokke_: no problem, thanks for pointing that out,I didn't realise that docstrings are under the freeze | 14:04 |
| nikhil_k | A couple that seem to be in trouble may be and should get updated soon: | 14:04 |
| nikhil_k | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/deactivate-image <- POC hemanthm , rosmaita | 14:04 |
| nikhil_k | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/pass-targets-to-policy-enforcer < poc sigmavirus24 | 14:05 |
| sigmavirus24 | the spec still needs approval | 14:05 |
| nikhil_k | pkoniszewski: how positive are we to land https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/metadefs-upgrade-by-json-file ? seems a bit trixy at this point I'd say | 14:05 |
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| jokke_ | I don't want to talk anyone down, but I'd like to remind that we have a week to land what we're landing | 14:06 |
| nikhil_k | hmm, may be we'd come back to that | 14:06 |
| pkoniszewski | nikhil_k: implementation is ready and covers everything that was mentioned in spec | 14:07 |
| nikhil_k | pkoniszewski: sg, I'd leave it upto you and resp core reviewers to judge that | 14:08 |
| * flaper87 is fixing the gate failure, it looks like it fails just with testr (yay?) | 14:08 | |
| nikhil_k | Like announced earlier I'd ask for FFE on Artifacts and Catalog Index Service | 14:08 |
| nikhil_k | and possibly on something that does not get merged today but the chances of it being in the FFE are very narrow | 14:08 |
| flaper87 | to be clear, the gate failure in *my* patch | 14:09 |
| nikhil_k | so, please update your code and ping reviewers for the same | 14:09 |
| cpallares | flaper87: lol | 14:09 |
| nikhil_k | We'd start fixing bugs and other things that should follow the freeze creterion before different kinds of freeze next week | 14:10 |
| flaper87 | cpallares: :P | 14:10 |
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| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: which parts of Artifacts because that's a huge set of patches for us to review in <= 1 week | 14:10 |
| nikhil_k | so, docs , config deprecation, critical bugs that affect the API etc | 14:10 |
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| jokke_ | yeah ... please people if there is anything that has DocImpact, the next 7 days are critical so that we stay in good terms with docs folks :P | 14:10 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: It'd be good to discuss that on the code | 14:10 |
| nikhil_k | #info jokke_ : please people if there is anything that has DocImpact, the next 7 days are critical so that we stay in good terms with docs folks | 14:11 |
| nikhil_k | (seemed important :P) | 14:11 |
| jokke_ | well we do want to give them the time to works what they deserve, right | 14:12 |
| jokke_ | =s | 14:12 |
| nikhil_k | There may be some bugs that can't be tacked in after 19th so please bring important ones to the notices of cores around you | 14:14 |
| nikhil_k | tackled* | 14:14 |
| nikhil_k | (ugh, too many typos) | 14:14 |
| TravT | nikhil_k: @here: pkonizewski's spec may really help us to handle migration / bug fixes on metadata definitions. | 14:14 |
| ativelkov | sigmavirus24: I'd prefer to land all of them, since the feature becomes functional only when the last one is merged | 14:14 |
| TravT | there are a few updates (sorry I don't have bug for it) to existing definitions that we might need to do. | 14:14 |
| TravT | And his spec makes that easier to do from a migration perspective. | 14:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | ativelkov: you do realize that's something around >=5000 lines to review when there are far more attainable features that could be merged in the amount of time it will take to effectively review and update artifacts, right? | 14:14 |
| nikhil_k | gotcha | 14:14 |
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| sigmavirus24 | ativelkov: the specs have been approved. It isn't as if artifacts won't ever be accepted at this point | 14:15 |
| ativelkov | sigmavirus24: I care mostly about Kilo, not about "ever" :) | 14:17 |
| jokke_ | Ref ativelkov's note of having the functionality in ... I think that is the most important part. If we do not have the functionality in by the review, we need to have revert plan to pull out the code that gets merged but is not in use for the release. Last thing we want is to have some half baked modules going out with release that does not work | 14:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | ativelkov: and I care about kilo's stability, usability, and giving the best experience to the user | 14:17 |
| nikhil_k | jokke_: I don't think that would be bad on the migrations stuff | 14:17 |
| nikhil_k | I believe that it'd be bad* | 14:18 |
| jokke_ | thus I have been wondering where these are as I thought we agreed to start pulling the artifacts in soon after k-2 but I haven't heard anything about it before now | 14:18 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: what do you mean? | 14:18 |
| nikhil_k | I think we should not revert DB migrations | 14:18 |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: ++ | 14:19 |
| * flaper87 back | 14:19 | |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: the spec was only recently approved. No one was willing to review the code when it was rebased many times a week for the duration of kilo. Review comments were almost always rebased into the past and never addressed | 14:19 |
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| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: well that is fully a Glance issue I've been trying to raise for whole cycle ... it seems that we do not merge specs before the code is ready | 14:20 |
| nikhil_k | So, this is prolly a learning lesson, I think it would nice to mention here | 14:20 |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: so spec not approved is really not an excuse to not have the code ready (or at least that has been the message over whole cycle) | 14:21 |
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| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: I agree | 14:21 |
| nikhil_k | #info If your feature code needs reviews, you're responsible for pinging core reviewers and get it reviewed. It'd hardly be possible for everyone to understand when something is ready and when isn't given the amount of code that is proposed and number of cores we've. | 14:21 |
| nikhil_k | jokke_: +1 on that! | 14:22 |
| flaper87 | jokke_: on the flip side, some specs definitely need to be discussed before you can start coding | 14:22 |
| ativelkov | The was ready by the time of mini-summit. But that's 7 dependent commits, a minor issue found in one of them was causing the whole chain to be rebased | 14:22 |
| flaper87 | that said, I agree with you | 14:23 |
| nikhil_k | flaper87: I think you're right however what jokke_ is saying that you don't need them approved | 14:23 |
| nikhil_k | you can discuss and iterate over the design based on the findings | 14:23 |
| nikhil_k | I can mention a few cases on CIS (Catalog Index Service) | 14:23 |
| jokke_ | flaper87: my personal take is that poc is absolute max what should be done before the spec is approved and the spec should be approved as soon as the main design points have been agreed, but that does not seem to be the case | 14:23 |
| lakshmiS | jokke_: +1 | 14:27 |
| nikhil_k | jokke_: do you have examples where these concerns were brought up and not covered by complete design discussion? | 14:28 |
| sigmavirus24 | I had tried reviewing artifacts several times before and after the mini-summit ativelkov I still don't think any of my review comments were ever replied to, but it's easy to lose the email notifications (and patch set numbers) when things have been rebased so frequently | 14:29 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: I can grep the irc logs at some point ... At least in couple of meetings earlier on the cycle | 14:29 |
| nikhil_k | sure that would be good to bring it up to (Active) drivers as feedback for future specs | 14:29 |
| nikhil_k | The policy has been to keep specs open until after the code has been almost agreed upon barring exceptions that involve FF, 3 year long discussions and approved BPs | 14:30 |
| nikhil_k | may be we need to know where that's been not handled well | 14:31 |
| ivasilevskaya | sigmavirus24, you are not being honest here. I personally saw to addressing all of your comments, especially the declarative framework part) | 14:31 |
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| jokke_ | nikhil_k: I was in understanding that the specs were supposed to be the answer for that exact issue ;) | 14:32 |
| rosmaita | i am really concerned about blocking artifacts at this point, especially since it is an optional service with an api marked as EXPERIMENTAL | 14:33 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: for me the basic understanding was bit like a planning permission for your house ... it's bad idea to build it before you get the stamp on the paper that it's ok to do | 14:33 |
| nikhil_k | jokke_: ok, I don't get you there but would like to correct this situation right away so may be we'd discuss this outside of the meeting unless someone else has feedback | 14:33 |
| sigmavirus24 | Haven't we been warned several times by outside developers that EXPERIMENTAL APIs are always well intentioned but are always a disaster? | 14:33 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: sure | 14:33 |
| sigmavirus24 | ivasilevskaya: I still haven't found those replies | 14:34 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: ativelkov jokke_ ivasilevskaya : I think we need to come to common understanding on this point and back and forth arguments might not help | 14:34 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: I do agree and I'm more than happy to get artifacts in as long as we get them in right ... I would hate to see same circus with ninja approved changes etc. what happened when we rushed glance_store in at last minute | 14:35 |
| sigmavirus24 | ivasilevskaya: also, I didn't say they were never replied to, just that I still haven't found them and I'm tired of trying to help artifacts when all prior efforts were ignored | 14:35 |
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| nikhil_k | so, I'd like to propose something tangible but would like to get some feedback for how we can move 'forward'? | 14:35 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: if it's experimental enough we probably can do non-voting testing for it and just make sure that images stays stables and usable while we landslide the code in | 14:36 |
| rosmaita | jokke_: i don't think it contains anything that would affect images (although it does use the same DB, different tables, though) | 14:37 |
| nikhil_k | jokke_: is it going to have testing that carries vote weight? | 14:37 |
| ativelkov | There are no actual intersections between images and artifacts. They use the same DB (and thus the same migration chain), but that's the only shared location | 14:37 |
| nikhil_k | (just trying to understand) | 14:37 |
| nikhil_k | ativelkov: and we don't have tests from tempest, neutron, etc projects in glance gate and we can ensure that until this code is stable? | 14:38 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: well the point is that if we bring it in and it breaks the gate it breaks the gate for everything ... if we bring it in and it breaks non-voting tests on gate it's just our problem to get those stabilized | 14:39 |
| ativelkov | nikhil_k: didn't get this part. We do not have tempest tests for artifacts, as we do not have their support in the client yet | 14:39 |
| nikhil_k | jokke_: I'm worried that infra might not like that complication. Because everything would be in py27 run | 14:39 |
| nikhil_k | ativelkov: yes, thanks for stating that explicitly | 14:40 |
| ativelkov | We do only test artifacts as part of DB tests, functional API tests + some unit tests on particular modules such as declarative framework | 14:40 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: which makes this situation difficult ... that was just proposal to point out one way around this issue | 14:40 |
| nikhil_k | I think that's what jokke_ is worried about no? Otherwise, I'm unsure how to break glance test suite into two parts in the gate | 14:41 |
| nikhil_k | Also, not to diverge sigmavirus24's original point about code completeness | 14:41 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: correct ... any of those test being flaky affects our gating from the point they get merged | 14:42 |
| ativelkov | Currently all the checks are green, as far as I can see | 14:42 |
| nikhil_k | Where can we discuss some of these concerns? Can we open an etherpad ativelkov sigmavirus24 jokke_ ? | 14:42 |
| jokke_ | so we need to have either backout plan if we don't get it all right early enough or find a way not to break the gate bringing that experimental code in | 14:42 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: mailing list perhaps? | 14:42 |
| sigmavirus24 | We can use an etherpad too | 14:42 |
| sigmavirus24 | I think there is a greater wealth of knowledge and experience on the ML though | 14:43 |
| nikhil_k | Collaboration works so much better on etherpad and real time feedback too | 14:43 |
| jokke_ | ++ | 14:43 |
| ativelkov | I do have etherpad for Artifact reviews at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Artifacts_Reviews | 14:43 |
| nikhil_k | hm, true | 14:43 |
| nikhil_k | hmm, may be we've sub points for each of those reviews | 14:43 |
| nikhil_k | I think not all of this applied to all reviews | 14:44 |
| nikhil_k | applies* | 14:44 |
| jokke_ | please if we use etherpad, mark your name/nick on the color so we know who has written and what | 14:44 |
| nikhil_k | ok, let's move on for now | 14:44 |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: what if I use someone else's name and color? =P | 14:44 |
| nikhil_k | #action sigmavirus24 and ativelkov to discuss etherpad and ML option for further discussion | 14:44 |
| nikhil_k | #topic Reviews/Bugs/Releases | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews/Bugs/Releases (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:45 | |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: I'll find you and feed you to the sharks ;) | 14:45 |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: works for me | 14:45 |
| nikhil_k | #info One release planned for glance_store and one for client on either Mon/Tues depending on the state of the patches | 14:45 |
| jokke_ | uuh my second favorite topic :D | 14:45 |
| jokke_ | can we rant an hour about this as well :D | 14:45 |
| nikhil_k | #info we will look into the option of a stable branch for these that would be cut at Kilo RC3 | 14:46 |
| kragniz | these will be the last for kilo? | 14:46 |
| nikhil_k | kragniz: may be, depending on review speed | 14:46 |
| kragniz | okay | 14:46 |
| nikhil_k | Please add bugs and features for these in the trello board | 14:46 |
| nikhil_k | I'm inclined to move on unless someone wants to say anything | 14:47 |
| nikhil_k | #topic Other | 14:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:47 | |
| nikhil_k | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2015-March/006450.html | 14:48 |
| nikhil_k | Do we have a bug for it? | 14:48 |
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| kragniz | I don't think so | 14:49 |
| jokke_ | I don't think so either ... | 14:49 |
| nikhil_k | I think we can further discuss on the bug once that opens up why 500 is seen | 14:49 |
| jokke_ | I'm also not on the ops list so I hear forst time about this issue now | 14:49 |
| jokke_ | first | 14:49 |
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| nikhil_k | yeah | 14:49 |
| jokke_ | sounds like our grenade testing has failed | 14:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | Oh yeah, I think I added that | 14:50 |
| nikhil_k | ok, moving on. I think we can leave a note for them to open the bug if they are not here | 14:50 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: :P | 14:50 |
| nikhil_k | do we have more info/logs? | 14:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | Oh I meant I added that to the agenda | 14:51 |
| sigmavirus24 | Not that I posted the message to -operators | 14:51 |
| nikhil_k | looks cryptic and we don't know the data they are pulling from DB so could be anything | 14:51 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: agreed. I was still curious about other people's thoughts on the matter. If there's something we can figure out how to do better | 14:51 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: yeah, I figured that you may know them. wrong assumption sorry.. | 14:51 |
| sigmavirus24 | I can get to know Nathan | 14:51 |
| nikhil_k | thanks! | 14:52 |
| * sigmavirus24 goes into undercover spy mode | 14:52 | |
| nikhil_k | Glance upgradeability | 14:52 |
| TravT | zhiyan: jokke_: any other core please look at: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159532/ (Provide a way to upgrade metadata definitions). This is the result of a conversation with Zhiyan on a previous review in K-2. | 14:52 |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: I would appreciate if you could forward me some meaningful bundle of responses if any coming from that end | 14:52 |
| nikhil_k | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/versioned-objects | 14:52 |
| nikhil_k | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151194/ | 14:52 |
| nikhil_k | I believe that is a review call for the cores | 14:52 |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: so CC you from the start? got it. =P | 14:52 |
| pkoniszewski | it's me again! | 14:52 |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: if that works, good | 14:52 |
| pkoniszewski | I'm aware that it is a bit late for kilo release to implement objects | 14:53 |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: I've just seen the lists dropping ccs out | 14:53 |
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| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: Yeah | 14:53 |
| pkoniszewski | however, if we manage to get this in L-release, update will be available from L to M release, it won't work from K to L, so it is imo beneficial to get this in L release | 14:53 |
| nikhil_k | and drivers* | 14:53 |
| nikhil_k | pkoniszewski: agreed. we can move this to L once we open it up | 14:53 |
| jokke_ | pkoniszewski: quick recap ... what are you looking for with that? | 14:53 |
| nikhil_k | thanks to jokke_ the review is in place already | 14:54 |
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| nikhil_k | pkoniszewski: may be we can rebase it on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163382/ | 14:54 |
| pkoniszewski | jokke_: smooth upgrades between versions | 14:54 |
| pkoniszewski | nikhil_k: sure! | 14:55 |
| nikhil_k | cool | 14:55 |
| nikhil_k | #topic Open Discussion | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:55 | |
| TravT | was it ever decided exactly what the rules are for an experimental API ? | 14:55 |
| nikhil_k | They aren't and I think we should discuss that on [TC] flag if needed | 14:55 |
| TravT | I mean, if you mark an API as experimental, does that mean it doesn't have to provide a 2 release deprecation cycle? | 14:56 |
| jokke_ | TravT: I'd say log a lot, document even more and make sure that everybody understands it's not really production stable | 14:56 |
| jokke_ | TravT: I think that was pretty much the idea that experimental api might change more rapidly | 14:56 |
| nikhil_k | So, rosmaita brought up an excellent point in the mid-cycle meetup. We need to blog about it and post in on ML, Social networks and inform peers, users, opers | 14:57 |
| nikhil_k | TravT: however, your original point - what are the rules? They don't seem to be defined | 14:57 |
| nikhil_k | and would be excellent to have | 14:58 |
| TravT | Probably it is up to a project to define then? | 14:58 |
| nikhil_k | I think we missed pointing out the context | 14:58 |
| jokke_ | does API wg has any take on that? | 14:58 |
| nikhil_k | There has been some discussion going on CIS, please see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161621/ | 14:58 |
| TravT | there is some discussion ... Nikhil beat me to it. | 14:59 |
| nikhil_k | API has guidelines and not rules jokke_ | 14:59 |
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| nikhil_k | API-WG* sorry ^ | 14:59 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: good ... do they have anything there we can directly steal and adhere to? | 14:59 |
| kragniz | this had +2A before it required a rebase, so some quick reviews would be nice: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149344/ | 14:59 |
| TravT | it seems to me that usually when we take requests to TC that they may give back guidance, but there aren't a lot of "thou shalt" rules. | 15:00 |
| nikhil_k | Time to call all the discussions outside of the meeting.. | 15:00 |
| rosmaita | if people still have time let's continue this in openstack-glance channel, it is important to discuss | 15:00 |
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| nikhil_k | == rosmaita | 15:00 |
| jokke_ | thanks everybody! | 15:00 |
| kragniz | thanks all | 15:00 |
| nikhil_k | Thanks all! | 15:00 |
| ativelkov | thanks | 15:00 |
| rosmaita | see you in openstack-glance! | 15:00 |
| nikhil_k | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 12 15:00:43 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-03-12-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-03-12-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-03-12-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| b3rnard0 | #startmeeting OpenStack Ansible Meeting | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 12 16:00:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is b3rnard0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_ansible_meeting' | 16:00 |
| b3rnard0 | #topic Agenda & rollcall | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda & rollcall (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:00 | |
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| b3rnard0 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-ansible#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 16:00 |
| b3rnard0 | hello | 16:01 |
| daneyon_ | hi | 16:01 |
| stevelle | hello | 16:01 |
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| sdake | o/ | 16:01 |
| sigmavirus24 | hello | 16:01 |
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| cloudnull | damn. DST has me all jacked up. . . | 16:02 |
| alextricity | hey :) | 16:02 |
| cloudnull | hows it | 16:02 |
| alextricity | it good | 16:02 |
| daneyon_ | DST usually gives me a 1 week hangover | 16:02 |
| sdake | cloudnull no dst in arizona - recommend moving ;-) | 16:02 |
| Apsu | Roll Call, signing in | 16:02 |
| cloudnull | yea DST is a mess. | 16:03 |
| cloudnull | UTC for the win | 16:03 |
| cloudnull | present | 16:03 |
| b3rnard0 | presente | 16:03 |
| rackertom | o/ | 16:03 |
| Apsu | presentah | 16:03 |
| b3rnard0 | #topic Review action items from last week | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last week (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:03 | |
| BjoernT | lol, we all should get rid of dst | 16:03 |
| cloudnull | +9000 | 16:03 |
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| cloudnull | cloudnull continue pinging jhesketh about creating a separate repo and other things <- yes should be in review today | 16:03 |
| cloudnull | next: odyssey4me Solicit feedback from the mailing list as to whether os package management should be part of the project? | 16:04 |
| b3rnard0 | #info cloudnull continue pinging jhesketh about creating a separate repo and other things <- yes should be in review today | 16:04 |
| b3rnard0 | don't see jesse. next! | 16:05 |
| cloudnull | odyssey4me | 16:05 |
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| odyssey4me | o/ | 16:05 |
| cloudnull | next: odyssey4me Solicit feedback from the mailing list as to whether os package management should be part of the project? | 16:05 |
| cloudnull | :) | 16:05 |
| odyssey4me | as I recall we agreed to wait until the 'manifesto' was compiled and agreed to before we went back to that | 16:06 |
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| cloudnull | okiedokie. | 16:06 |
| cloudnull | b3rnard0 carry that. | 16:06 |
| b3rnard0 | i'll keep that one open | 16:06 |
| cloudnull | next: git-harry help odyssey4me on blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration | 16:06 |
| palendae | Maybe with the manifesto note | 16:07 |
| b3rnard0 | #action odyssey4me Solicit feedback from the mailing list as to whether os package management should be part of the project? | 16:07 |
| odyssey4me | I would suggest that we take it off the agenda, actually | 16:07 |
| b3rnard0 | odyssey4me: your action item or the manifesto? | 16:07 |
| odyssey4me | my action item | 16:08 |
| odyssey4me | the manifesto needs to happen first, before we discuss ancillary items that fit into the grey area | 16:08 |
| b3rnard0 | k | 16:08 |
| Apsu | One does not simply not manifesto. | 16:08 |
| Apsu | First rule of manifesto club: write one. | 16:08 |
| sdake | which action item - the os package management? | 16:09 |
| Apsu | Soliciting feedback from the mailing list. | 16:09 |
| cloudnull | sdake its a topic about specific package pinning as it pertains to the OS | 16:09 |
| sdake | oh right | 16:09 |
| sdake | im familiar with that blueprint nm then :) | 16:09 |
| cloudnull | so "git-harry help odyssey4me on blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration" <- what say you git-harry and odyssey4me | 16:10 |
| odyssey4me | ah, so I've updated the blueprint for that | 16:10 |
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| odyssey4me | I'm working on putting together a PoC using one of the roles to test the concept for review. | 16:11 |
| cloudnull | so i wanted to chat about that a bit. | 16:11 |
| odyssey4me | I've discovered a way to do selective merging which I think will work quite nicely for our needs. | 16:11 |
| cloudnull | i know that git-harry has a review regarding the testing of hash merging in ansible | 16:11 |
| daneyon_ | odyssey4me the #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration seems a lot like what tripleo uses for config file mgt. | 16:11 |
| odyssey4me | yeah, that's a comparitive WIP so that we can review both options to compare | 16:12 |
| b3rnard0 | #info odyssey4me I'm working on putting together a PoC using one of the roles to test the concept for review. related to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration | 16:12 |
| cloudnull | but we may be able to do something similar to whats spec'd here for config diff https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/dynamically-manage-policy.json | 16:12 |
| git-harry | cloudnull: so it doesn't break the check with hash_behaviour = merge | 16:12 |
| cloudnull | without implementing hash merging in ansible | 16:12 |
| cloudnull | yea it shouldn't break most of our data structures are lists and strings | 16:13 |
| stevelle | I had some concerns about upgrades to configurations that contain lists | 16:13 |
| cloudnull | but im kinda against the idea of hash merging as it adds additional "smoke and mirrors" to the deployment process | 16:13 |
| stevelle | such as middleware lists | 16:13 |
| git-harry | Not really, the vars just have to be considered differently | 16:14 |
| Apsu | We went down this road before, when we did the first early round of playbook/role variable reorganization and layout redesign. | 16:14 |
| git-harry | and if we don't currently have any affected by the change it's not an issue | 16:14 |
| Apsu | Because it was difficult to follow or figure out variable priorities and scopes. | 16:14 |
| cloudnull | git-harry right, but that specifically goes against stated ansible best practices | 16:14 |
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| odyssey4me | my concern with a blanket ansible hash merge is that it affects all plays, including any others a deployer may add to the base we're providing... this is why I prefer a selective merge | 16:15 |
| git-harry | cloudnull: yes, but it's still configurable | 16:15 |
| Apsu | Hash merging with multiple data sources merged at different scopes sounds like a great way to get back in that position. | 16:15 |
| cloudnull | git-harry i think configurable comes at a cost of not adhering to best practices | 16:15 |
| Apsu | I for one would much prefer a more transparent strategy, even if it's dumber, has more steps, and requires more effort to design flexibly. | 16:15 |
| git-harry | best practise is no more that a guide | 16:16 |
| cloudnull | this is true | 16:16 |
| cloudnull | but its a well stated guide | 16:17 |
| b3rnard0 | do we want to get through the rest of the action items? | 16:17 |
| odyssey4me | stevelle the basic view that I'm aiming for is that we don't set anything in a conf file if that's the value already set in the code as a default... we only implement the bare minimum we need to put in for the system to work, and we only add stuff that we consider a best practise | 16:17 |
| Apsu | I don't think anyone's suggesting that the best practices are commandments from on high. However, they are expectations that others who interact with us will have. And if we don't adhere to them, we're increasing the cost of participating in our project. | 16:17 |
| odyssey4me | anything else a deployer wants to add, they can do in the tunables | 16:17 |
| cloudnull | as Apsu said in early icehouse we had a similar system which was abandoned due to multiple scopes | 16:17 |
| Apsu | Plus our own cost of understanding our code. | 16:18 |
| Apsu | ^ | 16:18 |
| odyssey4me | agreed Apsu cloudnull but the method I'm proposing actually simplifies that dramatically - the icehouse method was implementing too much | 16:18 |
| stevelle | odyssey4me: middlewares are particularly tricky as they would include extensions that specific deployments will want, but the defaults have been a bit volatile between releases | 16:18 |
| Apsu | odyssey4me: Well then we'll dig into it and see what we can all agree to. | 16:19 |
| cloudnull | just to state my position, if its similar to the icehouse method and implements hash merging then I'm kind of against it. | 16:19 |
| odyssey4me | so for now, we're working on a PoC to review - I just haven't had much time to get it done | 16:19 |
| cloudnull | but ill wait and see from the PoC | 16:20 |
| cloudnull | next: BjoernT to help palendae on apt pinning | 16:20 |
| palendae | Pretty sure that was BjoernT and odyssey4me | 16:20 |
| odyssey4me | ah yes, that discussion has been had | 16:21 |
| odyssey4me | whether that becomes part of the project goes back to the manifesto | 16:21 |
| cloudnull | ah , thanks for the superb note taking b3rnard0 :) | 16:21 |
| sdake | middleware does what? | 16:21 |
| sdake | (re naifesto) | 16:21 |
| sdake | nano-festo :) | 16:21 |
| cloudnull | hahah | 16:21 |
| palendae | cloudnull: Part of that was my fault for doing some networking cross-chatter during the meeting | 16:22 |
| sdake | would that maintain the ha state of the deployment? | 16:22 |
| b3rnard0 | #info odyssey4me: whether that becomes part of the project goes back to the manifesto | 16:22 |
| cloudnull | palendae dont take blame from b3rnard0 | 16:22 |
| b3rnard0 | palendae: thanks for making me look bad | 16:22 |
| Apsu | +1 | 16:22 |
| palendae | wut | 16:22 |
| palendae | You do that yourself | 16:22 |
| Apsu | +2, approved | 16:22 |
| rackertom | We're a team. We do it to each other. | 16:22 |
| cloudnull | next: BjoernT to help palendae on networks | 16:22 |
| odyssey4me | we have some success: https://review.openstack.org/163544 | 16:23 |
| b3rnard0 | #info odyssey4me: we have some success: https://review.openstack.org/163544 | 16:23 |
| odyssey4me | next steps would be to get that (and any accompanying fixes) backported | 16:23 |
| cloudnull | sounds good. | 16:24 |
| palendae | Ok, that one - Bjoern and I have had some small discussions via email to look at different implenmentations, but I was mostly focused on gating this last week | 16:24 |
| BjoernT | Yes he did get my script what we do, but I think it has nothing to do with aio or so | 16:24 |
| odyssey4me | thanks to palendae for getting that done :) | 16:24 |
| cloudnull | next: cloudnull to create osad project manifesto as public etherpad and solicit feedback from the ML | 16:24 |
| palendae | BjoernT: Yeah, I don't think that script is applicable to AIOs | 16:24 |
| odyssey4me | hang on, palendae BjoernT you guys are discussing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/improved-network-generation are you? | 16:25 |
| cloudnull | I've created a rough draft and I need to add some other bits post a few discussions i've had with some folks and I will have it on an etherpad and on the ML later today. | 16:25 |
| palendae | odyssey4me: I was looking at what BjoernT has created for his environments to see if the blueprint would be of use to him | 16:25 |
| cloudnull | #topic Blueprints | 16:26 |
| b3rnard0 | #chair cloudnull | 16:26 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b3rnard0 cloudnull | 16:26 |
| cloudnull | #topic Blueprints | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:26 | |
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| cloudnull | lets go right into that . | 16:26 |
| b3rnard0 | #info cloudnull: I've created a rough draft and I need to add some other bits post a few discussions i've had with some folks and I will have it on an etherpad and on the ML later today. | 16:27 |
| cloudnull | back to > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/improved-network-generation | 16:27 |
| cloudnull | palendae do we think we have something that we can work on that can help facilitate networking hosts configurations that can be put together within a poc? | 16:28 |
| b3rnard0 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/improved-network-generation | 16:28 |
| palendae | cloudnull: Right now I'm not quite there, again, gating. Maybe I can look at that during the hackathon | 16:28 |
| BjoernT | Is this print targeted for aio? | 16:28 |
| Apsu | I should probably mention that we have network generation Ansible written and in-use for our dev Jenkins jobs. | 16:29 |
| palendae | BjoernT: Not necessarily | 16:29 |
| cloudnull | is that something that, with the help from BjoernT, can be worked on? | 16:29 |
| Apsu | So we should definitely compare. | 16:29 |
| palendae | Apsu: You should, and IMO, I think we should be using an upstream one | 16:29 |
| cloudnull | Apsu BjoernT palendae | 16:29 |
| Apsu | And perhaps Jenkins is a good place to test the galaxy bits | 16:29 |
| palendae | Whether we move ours out or use debops's | 16:29 |
| Apsu | yeah | 16:29 |
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| palendae | Apsu: One motivation was that we had not just the Ansible jenkins stuff | 16:30 |
| odyssey4me | while I acknowledge that there is value in having this - I don't feel that this belongs in-repo for os-ansible-deployment - this comes back to the manifesto | 16:30 |
| palendae | But another in-branch one in os-a-d, too | 16:30 |
| Apsu | odyssey4me: I tend to agree. | 16:30 |
| Apsu | palendae: Yeah | 16:31 |
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| Apsu | It's provisioning, not deployment per se. | 16:31 |
| odyssey4me | I do think there's value in having a PoC done - and perhaps some sort of documentation guide on how one could use it. | 16:31 |
| palendae | odyssey4me: That's fair. It may just be a thing to test | 16:31 |
| BjoernT | As I said, in ops we just roll out templates for all the bridges. Having the need of configuring each interfaces inside the rpc_user_config is actually too time consuming for us. That's why I wrote this tiny script which just enumerates through the hosts and just assigns a host ip to each bridge | 16:31 |
| palendae | Yeah, that's another reason, IMO, having an upstream ansible galaxy role would be good | 16:31 |
| odyssey4me | palendae agreed | 16:31 |
| palendae | BjoernT: Fair point. I'll try to talk to you a little bit more offline this afternoon. Your script seems to solve your problem well | 16:32 |
| BjoernT | yeah | 16:32 |
| cloudnull | ok. so manifesto coming soon and this BP may be mancdaz'd post that release . | 16:32 |
| palendae | Sure thing | 16:32 |
| odyssey4me | in that case, it only makes the case for the removal of any current bits we have in ansible plays/roles that deal with configuring host networking | 16:32 |
| mancdaz | wait what? | 16:32 |
| mancdaz | what did I not yet do? | 16:33 |
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| cloudnull | we might pitch a bp | 16:33 |
| cloudnull | for which i used the verb, mancdaz'd . | 16:33 |
| b3rnard0 | mancdaz: thanks for making my action items look bad | 16:33 |
| Apsu | haha | 16:33 |
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| cloudnull | so next BP, odyssey4me can you go into a bit more about what your working on with regard to "https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration" ? any blockers and can we get someone else to help out on that, if applicable ? | 16:35 |
| cloudnull | i know that we talked about it already | 16:35 |
| odyssey4me | hmm, at this stage I just need to peg myself down for a few hours to convert the configurations from one method to the other | 16:35 |
| cloudnull | ok | 16:35 |
| b3rnard0 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration | 16:35 |
| odyssey4me | there are an awful lot of config entries to convert, so it takes time | 16:36 |
| odyssey4me | the actual implementation is almost trivial | 16:36 |
| odyssey4me | so yeah, I'll try to find some time before next week to get this PoC done | 16:36 |
| cloudnull | so along those lines we have "https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/dynamically-manage-policy.json" | 16:36 |
| cloudnull | this was coming out of alextricity team | 16:37 |
| cloudnull | which is looking to create a configurable policy json system | 16:37 |
| cloudnull | and doing it via an ansible module | 16:37 |
| cloudnull | alextricity is Daniel Curran around ? | 16:37 |
| b3rnard0 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/dynamically-manage-policy.json | 16:38 |
| alextricity | Not in IRC, no. I don't know what there thought was there. Sorry :/ | 16:38 |
| alextricity | He's in the office though | 16:38 |
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| cloudnull | From what I understand the intent is, they want to use the base template module and allow users to provide key=value as an additional option to override and or deploy additional config within the default policy file as an option. | 16:40 |
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| cloudnull | IMO that seems like the most ansible centric approach to deploying extra config on templated files. additionally it seems like a module that could make its way upstream | 16:41 |
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| cloudnull | i like the intent of the bp and would love to see that in Kilo. but would also like to get some folks to review it whenever possible. | 16:41 |
| odyssey4me | sounds good - if the module can get built, then it'd be a far better way of handling tunable configurations | 16:42 |
| cloudnull | i believe Daniel Curran is already working on it, but he's not here to ask . | 16:42 |
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| cloudnull | alextricity can you circle up with him on that whenever possible? | 16:43 |
| stevelle | the policy files are a bit different but a similar approach could be applied to configurations | 16:43 |
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| alextricity | sure | 16:43 |
| cloudnull | stevelle for sure. i think that we can handle most of that within the configparse module in the py stdlib . | 16:43 |
| cloudnull | the trick will be having that done in transport. | 16:44 |
| b3rnard0 | #info odyssey4me: sounds good - if the module can get built, then it'd be a far better way of handling tunable configurations | 16:44 |
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| cloudnull | i'd imagine something like stringIO can make that go , but i've not looked at it quite yet | 16:44 |
| Apsu | I have a fair bit of experience with that variety of python | 16:44 |
| Apsu | Maybe I could lend a hand | 16:45 |
| cloudnull | sure. you want to get together with alextricity ? | 16:45 |
| bgmccollum | config files that allow multiple options of the same name, but different values...how will that be accommodated in the dict? | 16:46 |
| Apsu | Sure. | 16:46 |
| palendae | MultiDict? | 16:46 |
| Apsu | There's a few data structure options that can accomodate such. | 16:47 |
| bgmccollum | neutron.conf / service_provider as an example | 16:47 |
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| cloudnull | ok so moving on . | 16:48 |
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| cloudnull | i'd like to go to "Open discussion" | 16:48 |
| b3rnard0 | #topic Open discussion | 16:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:49 | |
| cloudnull | unless theres something else regarding bugs / reviews | 16:49 |
| sdake | quick Q | 16:49 |
| palendae | I have a question - do we have a document stating our criteria for core contributors? | 16:49 |
| palendae | I found https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TC_Membership_Models, but not sure that's generally applicable | 16:49 |
| sdake | trying to organize us some design summit space for VC ODS | 16:49 |
| b3rnard0 | oh, BjoernT wanted us to discuss a bug | 16:49 |
| cloudnull | shoot sdake | 16:49 |
| sdake | it looks like Monday is our only option, will the core team be present monday? | 16:49 |
| BjoernT | yes https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+bug/1399383 | 16:50 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1399383 in openstack-ansible juno "General SSL support for all public endpoints including spice" [High,Confirmed] | 16:50 |
| BjoernT | I added a proposal for have a quick fix around public URLs that those are finally SSL | 16:50 |
| palendae | sdake: I think most of the cores will be in San Antonio, TX, not sure if available | 16:50 |
| mattt | palendae: vancouver summit | 16:50 |
| cloudnull | i will be | 16:50 |
| palendae | Next week? | 16:50 |
| palendae | mattt: ^ | 16:50 |
| palendae | Ohhh | 16:50 |
| palendae | nm | 16:50 |
| sdake | the monday of VC ODS palendae? | 16:51 |
| palendae | My bad :) | 16:51 |
| sdake | I think May 15th | 16:51 |
| palendae | sdake: Yeah, my mistake | 16:51 |
| palendae | Thought you meant next week | 16:51 |
| sdake | that would be a bit short notice ;) | 16:51 |
| mattt | sdake: we haven't locked down travel plans but i can't see people not being there monday if they are going to attend | 16:51 |
| andymccr | we're highly agile ;P | 16:51 |
| sdake | once a manager said "You need to be in china in 2 days - go" | 16:52 |
| b3rnard0 | yeah, last time i checked we were agile 1.78 | 16:52 |
| sdake | figuring out a visa was - an expensive expensive challenge | 16:52 |
| sdake | ok thanks that was all I had :) | 16:52 |
| cloudnull | sweet! thanks sdake | 16:53 |
| sdake | no guarantees yet | 16:53 |
| BjoernT | yes https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+bug/1399383 | 16:54 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1399383 in openstack-ansible juno "General SSL support for all public endpoints including spice" [High,Confirmed] | 16:54 |
| BjoernT | ^^ back to real stuff | 16:54 |
| BjoernT | :-) | 16:54 |
| BjoernT | We need to get some traction around SSL and novnc .... and start tackling those bugs | 16:55 |
| stevelle | I feel like this may need a blueprint under our guidelines due to number of moving parts | 16:55 |
| BjoernT | maybe but fixing the public endpoints, where we need ssl shouldn't be that difficult. I change the endpoints manually now | 16:56 |
| odyssey4me | it's not going to be that simple | 16:57 |
| BjoernT | If we assume ssl offloading on the F5 yes, what else ? | 16:57 |
| odyssey4me | and from experience I know that implementing SSL and trying to direct internal clients to internal endpoints (non SSL) ends up finding pretty obscure bugs in the clients | 16:57 |
| odyssey4me | BjoernT the project doesn't assume SSL offloading - it can't | 16:58 |
| Apsu | ^ that last part is the key point here | 16:58 |
| Apsu | We can't assume an F5, or SSL offloading. But | 16:58 |
| odyssey4me | rax may, but os-ansible-deployment needs to consider the approach more broadly | 16:58 |
| BjoernT | the whole design is build on F5 | 16:58 |
| Apsu | That doesn't mean we can't allow for the configuration flexibility. | 16:58 |
| Apsu | BjoernT: No it's not. | 16:58 |
| Apsu | The RAX *product* is. | 16:58 |
| Apsu | OS-A-D the project is not. | 16:59 |
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| Apsu | But I still agree we need to be able to set the endpoints more flexibly. | 16:59 |
| BjoernT | well the project doesn't even include a load balancing component .... | 16:59 |
| Apsu | That part is reasonable, an easy win, and solves our product deployment needs. | 16:59 |
| odyssey4me | I would recommend that a workaround be used for now, unless someone steps up to work on this soon. | 16:59 |
| cloudnull | so we're out of time. | 16:59 |
| cloudnull | lets bring this convo into the channel | 17:00 |
| b3rnard0 | BjoernT: we need to continue discussing this at the bug triage | 17:00 |
| palendae | b3rnard0: Or in #openstack-ansible | 17:00 |
| cloudnull | lets do it today if you guys have time. | 17:00 |
| b3rnard0 | yeah | 17:00 |
| Apsu | Moving to #o-a | 17:00 |
| palendae | No need to wait 4 days | 17:00 |
| b3rnard0 | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| BjoernT | b3rnard0 looks like we need to talk internally first | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 12 17:00:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-03-12-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| cloudnull | thanks everyone | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-03-12-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-03-12-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | thanks | 17:00 |
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