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gibi | #startmeeting nova | 16:00 |
---|---|---|
openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 27 16:00:09 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gibi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:00 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 16:00 |
dansmith | o/ | 16:00 |
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gibi | o/ | 16:00 |
gmann | o/ | 16:00 |
gibi | lets get started | 16:00 |
gibi | #topic Bugs (stuck/critical) | 16:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (stuck/critical) (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:00 | |
gibi | We have a high severity CVE #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1890501 that has been fixed on master and ussuri and patches are going in to older stable branches. | 16:00 |
openstack | Launchpad bug 1890501 in OpenStack Compute (nova) stein "Soft reboot after live-migration reverts instance to original source domain XML (CVE-2020-17376)" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Lee Yarwood (lyarwood) | 16:00 |
bauzas | \o | 16:01 |
stephenfin | o/ | 16:01 |
gibi | besides that I don't see any critical bugs | 16:01 |
gibi | #link 31 new untriaged bugs (-5 since the last meeting): https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New | 16:01 |
gibi | #link 6 untagged untriaged bugs (-2 change since the last meeting): https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=-*&field.status%3Alist=NEW | 16:01 |
gibi | please look at the untriaged bug list and try to push some bugs forward | 16:01 |
gibi | also I pinged some of you about specific bugs | 16:02 |
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bauzas | thanks gibi for scrubbing the list | 16:02 |
lyarwood | \o | 16:02 |
gibi | do we need to talk about some of the open bugs herE? | 16:02 |
lyarwood | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/747358/ looks jammed btw | 16:02 |
lyarwood | not sure what we need to do to move it into the gate | 16:03 |
lyarwood | sorry ignore that | 16:03 |
lyarwood | thought it was the CVE, too many bugs :) | 16:03 |
gibi | :) | 16:03 |
gibi | #topic Runways | 16:03 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Runways (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:03 | |
gibi | etherpad #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-runways-victoria | 16:03 |
gibi | bp/provider-config-file has been merged \o/ so it's slot is freed up in the runway | 16:04 |
gibi | the first patch of bp/cyborg-rebuild-and-evacuate now has +2 from me | 16:04 |
gibi | he spawn part of the bp/add-emulated-virtual-tpm has been merged, the migrate and resize part has a +2 from me | 16:04 |
gibi | nothing is in the queue and we have a free runway slot, so if you have a feature ready then it is a good time to add it to the queue | 16:04 |
gibi | do we need to talk about the items in the runway slots? | 16:04 |
bauzas | gibi: I'll look at the vtpm series again tomorrow morning | 16:05 |
gibi | cool | 16:05 |
gibi | thanks | 16:05 |
bauzas | this should potentially free yet another slot | 16:05 |
bauzas | *potentially* :) | 16:05 |
gibi | #topic Release Planning | 16:06 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Release Planning (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:06 | |
gibi | We have 2 weeks until Milestone 3 which is Feature Freeze | 16:06 |
gibi | I've set up the release tracking etherpad #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-victoria-rc-potential | 16:06 |
gibi | Next week is the last release of non-client libraries for Victoria. For os-vif we would like to get #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/744816/ merged before the release | 16:06 |
gibi | Sooner than later we have to talk about cycle highlights and reno prelude | 16:06 |
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gibi | anything else about the coming release that we have to discuss? | 16:07 |
harsha24 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/parallel-filter-scheduler | 16:07 |
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gibi | harsha24: let's get back to that in the Open Discussion | 16:08 |
harsha24 | okay | 16:08 |
gibi | #topic Stable Branches | 16:08 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Stable Branches (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:08 | |
gibi | lyarwood: do you have any news? | 16:09 |
gibi | I guess we release from all the stable branches that are not in EM due to the CVE I mentioned above | 16:10 |
lyarwood | elod: has been busy cutting releases | 16:10 |
gibi | cool | 16:10 |
lyarwood | elod: no other news aside from that really | 16:10 |
elod | yes, ussuri release is done, | 16:10 |
lyarwood | ops sorry | 16:10 |
elod | train patch is open | 16:11 |
elod | stein will come as soon as the patch lands :) | 16:11 |
elod | np :) | 16:11 |
bauzas | I guess we can release ussuri but we need to hold for train, nope ? | 16:11 |
* bauzas is lost with all the train queue | 16:11 | |
elod | the train patch is: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/748383/ | 16:12 |
lyarwood | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/747358/ would be nice to land as we did in ussuri | 16:12 |
lyarwood | that's the change jammed at the moment | 16:12 |
elod | bauzas: there are some patch on the queue, but do we want to wait? | 16:12 |
bauzas | I don't know | 16:12 |
bauzas | ask the owner :p | 16:12 |
elod | ok, I'll -W than the Train release patch | 16:12 |
lyarwood | elod: ack, I'll reset the +W flags on that change, hopefully that should get it back into the gate | 16:13 |
gibi | OK | 16:13 |
elod | lyarwood: not jammed actually | 16:13 |
elod | just the parent needs to get merged | 16:13 |
elod | :] | 16:13 |
lyarwood | oh my bad I was sure that had already landed | 16:14 |
lyarwood | gerrit-- needs to make these dots bigger! | 16:14 |
gibi | moving on | 16:14 |
gibi | Libvirt (bauzas) | 16:14 |
gibi | there is thing on the agenda | 16:14 |
gibi | (lyarwood) Looking at bumping MIN_{QEMU,LIBVIRT}_VERSION in V | 16:14 |
bauzas | nothing to report honestly, I know aarents had changes but I didn't paid attention | 16:14 |
gibi | #link https://review.opendev.org/#/q/topic:bump-libvirt-qemu-victoria+(status:open+OR+status:merged) | 16:14 |
gibi | This would mean using UCA on bionic ahead of our move to focal, is anyone against that? | 16:14 |
lyarwood | I forgot to update the agenda | 16:15 |
gibi | looking at these patches most of them is are in merge conflict | 16:15 |
lyarwood | this looks like it's blocked on the same focal detach device bug | 16:15 |
gibi | lyarwood: ohh, so this was discussed last week | 16:15 |
lyarwood | yeah sorry | 16:15 |
gibi | np | 16:15 |
sean-k-mooney | gibi: we used to use uca on 16.04 | 16:15 |
lyarwood | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1882521 is the bug reported against focal | 16:16 |
openstack | Launchpad bug 1882521 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Failing device detachments on Focal" [High,New] | 16:16 |
lyarwood | I'm seeing the same issue with UCA on bionic but I can't reproduce locally | 16:16 |
lyarwood | if we are supposed to be moving to focal anyway this needs to get resolved | 16:17 |
gibi | yeah | 16:17 |
sean-k-mooney | i think we were ment to move at m2 | 16:17 |
sean-k-mooney | or try too so we shoudl swap sonner rather then later | 16:17 |
lyarwood | yeah I know gmann was still trying to move | 16:17 |
gibi | I'm hoping somebody will crack that as I did not have time to look into it | 16:17 |
lyarwood | same, I'm out until Tuesday after this that doesn't help | 16:18 |
gmann | lyarwood: yeah it is not clear why those fails | 16:18 |
gmann | as of now those failing tests are skipped to keep doing the testing. | 16:18 |
sean-k-mooney | lyarwood: could this be due to persitent vs transitant domain difference | 16:18 |
gmann | but yes this is one of blocker to move to Focal | 16:19 |
lyarwood | sean-k-mooney: maybe, I really can't tell tbh | 16:19 |
gibi | #action we need a volunteer to look into the Focal bug #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1882521 | 16:19 |
openstack | Launchpad bug 1882521 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Failing device detachments on Focal" [High,New] | 16:19 |
sean-k-mooney | for what its wroth focal and cento8 but use the same version of libvirt | 16:20 |
sean-k-mooney | so i would expect this to affact centos8 too | 16:20 |
sean-k-mooney | and as an extention rhel | 16:20 |
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gibi | let's move on now but please continue discussing this bug on #openstack-nova | 16:21 |
gibi | #topic Stuck Reviews | 16:21 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Stuck Reviews (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:21 | |
gibi | nothing on the agenda. Is there anything that is stuck? | 16:21 |
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tosky | I'd say https://review.opendev.org/#/c/711604/ | 16:22 |
gmann | i think you missed API updates | 16:22 |
tosky | (or I can mention it when talking about community goals) | 16:22 |
gibi | gmann: ack, sorry, I will get back to that | 16:23 |
gibi | tosky: as I see you need review | 16:23 |
gibi | on that patch | 16:23 |
gibi | tosky: I can look at it tomorrow | 16:23 |
bauzas | we should rename this section | 16:23 |
bauzas | this is confusing, we're not asking for code waiting to be reviewed | 16:24 |
gibi | bauzas: sure | 16:24 |
bauzas | but for patches that are stuck because of conflicting opinions | 16:24 |
gibi | bauzas: I will rename it to reviews with conflicting oppinions | 16:24 |
bauzas | I suck at naming things | 16:24 |
dansmith | when was the last time we had one? | 16:24 |
bauzas | so I won't surely propose a thing | 16:25 |
dansmith | maybe we could just remove it from the agenda altogether? | 16:25 |
gibi | real one? on the meeting? pretty long time ago | 16:25 |
bauzas | this could work too | 16:25 |
bauzas | open discussions are there anyway, so people can argue there | 16:25 |
gibi | #action gibi to remove stuck review from the agenda | 16:25 |
gibi | moving on | 16:25 |
gibi | #topic PTG and Forum planning | 16:25 |
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG and Forum planning (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:25 | |
gibi | The next Forum and PTG is less than 2 months from now | 16:26 |
gibi | summary mail #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-August/016770.html | 16:26 |
gibi | please indicate your acceptable PTG timeslots in #link https://doodle.com/poll/a5pgqh7bypq8piew | 16:26 |
gibi | please collect topics in #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-wallaby-ptg | 16:26 |
gibi | anything to be discussed about the coming PTG and Forum? | 16:26 |
gibi | #topic Open discussion | 16:27 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 16:27 | |
gibi | harsha24: what can we do for you? | 16:27 |
bauzas | he's proposing a new design for processing filters that are using threads | 16:28 |
bauzas | we had this discussion in the past and we always said filters aren't a performance bottleneck | 16:28 |
harsha24 | i am thinking is there a way to reduce the latency to spawn a vm using mutlithreding concept | 16:28 |
bauzas | but,n | 16:28 |
bauzas | things changed slightly since we have placement | 16:28 |
bauzas | harsha24: the point is, I wouldn't argue for more complexity unless you prove me there are huge benefits in doing such parallelism | 16:29 |
sean-k-mooney | bauzas: well with plamcent you have less need for filters | 16:29 |
bauzas | sean-k-mooney: correct | 16:29 |
gibi | harsha24: do you have measurement about the latency specific to the filter executions? | 16:29 |
dansmith | imagine how much worse NoValidHost will be to debug when it depends on the ordering of threads :) | 16:30 |
bauzas | tbc, all filter processing is memory-based | 16:30 |
bauzas | dansmith: right, that too | 16:30 |
bauzas | filters ordering is crucial for most of our ops | 16:30 |
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dansmith | yep | 16:30 |
sean-k-mooney | well all the filters for a given requst could probaly be put in there own tread without that being an issue | 16:30 |
artom | dansmith, well, if it's done properly we'd join() all the threads *then* print out a summary | 16:30 |
dansmith | sean-k-mooney: we can do that today with number of workers on the scheduler right? | 16:31 |
bauzas | I remember johnthetubaguy making a proposal about some smarter filter processing in the past | 16:31 |
artom | I think the question is - is the complexity and effort worth it? | 16:31 |
sean-k-mooney | indvigual filtere on the other hand would be a problem | 16:31 |
sean-k-mooney | dansmith: ya more or less | 16:31 |
bauzas | but that's... yeah, artom said it loudly | 16:31 |
sean-k-mooney | harsha24: what was your suggestion | 16:31 |
harsha24 | no actually list of each filter hosts will outcome and make an intersection of filtered hosts at the end | 16:31 |
dansmith | so each filter runs on the full set of hosts, which means expensive filters cost even more | 16:32 |
bauzas | sean-k-mooney: a classic parallelism approach | 16:32 |
harsha24 | yeah | 16:32 |
bauzas | dansmith: yup | 16:32 |
sean-k-mooney | so the current filter list has a defiend order | 16:32 |
bauzas | honestly, again, the CPU time is very short | 16:32 |
artom | Thinking out loud, perhaps just doing the external REST API calls async with something like concurrent.futures might be a much bigger speed gain | 16:32 |
bauzas | and we use generators | 16:32 |
sean-k-mooney | if we run them in paralle they need to filter more host and we then need to caulate the intersection | 16:32 |
bauzas | honestly, again | 16:32 |
sean-k-mooney | so that will use more cpu and memory | 16:32 |
artom | IOW - do other stuff while we wait for Cinder/Neutron to answer. I know it's a completely different thing, just continuing the effort/results thought... | 16:33 |
bauzas | operators never saw the filters performance as a bottleneck | 16:33 |
dansmith | sean-k-mooney: that was my point yeah | 16:33 |
bauzas | ask CERN if you don't know | 16:33 |
johnthetubaguy | do we know which filters are expensive, last time I looked its the DB queries that dominated | 16:33 |
dansmith | artom: what filters call out to cinder and neutron? | 16:33 |
bauzas | johnthetubaguy: my whole point | 16:33 |
dansmith | exactly | 16:33 |
artom | dansmith, not the filters, in the compute manager for example | 16:33 |
dansmith | artom: this is about filters | 16:33 |
artom | dansmith, as I said, completely different thing :) | 16:33 |
bauzas | we stopping querying the DB in the filters ages ago | 16:33 |
dansmith | ack | 16:33 |
aarents | sean-k-mooney: bauzas we need less filter with placement AND filters are run only on few hosts with room for allocation (others are filtered before by placement) | 16:33 |
sean-k-mooney | the aggrate* fitlers and numa proably are the most expencive | 16:33 |
dansmith | numa I'm sure | 16:34 |
artom | dansmith, I know - it was more the "where can we invest to improve speed" idea | 16:34 |
sean-k-mooney | aarents: yes | 16:34 |
harsha24 | what about weighers | 16:34 |
bauzas | AGAIN, filters don't call DB or neutron | 16:34 |
johnthetubaguy | numa and affinity were fairly expensive last time I looked | 16:34 |
sean-k-mooney | weigher are a spesrate pahse they could be paralised but i think tehy are cheap | 16:34 |
dansmith | harsha24: even worse.. weigh all hosts even though we're going to exclude most? | 16:34 |
bauzas | they just manipulate in-memory python objects to answer a simple question | 16:35 |
bauzas | sean-k-mooney: again, the ordering is crucial | 16:35 |
sean-k-mooney | dansmith: well we coudl weight the filtered host in parrale | 16:35 |
bauzas | for weighers | 16:35 |
sean-k-mooney | bauzas: not for weighers | 16:35 |
sean-k-mooney | that is not an orderd list | 16:35 |
sean-k-mooney | or is it i should check that | 16:35 |
harsha24 | I mean after the filtered hosts then can use parallelism for weighers | 16:35 |
sean-k-mooney | if its orded then yes | 16:35 |
bauzas | sean-k-mooney: trust me :) | 16:36 |
dansmith | sean-k-mooney: that seems like a tiny potential for improvement | 16:36 |
harsha24 | filters order is not required as we intesect the set at the end | 16:36 |
sean-k-mooney | dansmith: correct | 16:36 |
bauzas | this seems putting more complexity for no gain | 16:36 |
johnthetubaguy | bauzas: +1 | 16:36 |
sean-k-mooney | harsha24: filter order is currently used to impore perfomance | 16:36 |
dansmith | sean-k-mooney: there's still overhead in spinning up those threads, joining, and then the sorting is still linear, so I'd super doubt it's worth it :) | 16:36 |
johnthetubaguy | sean-k-mooney: +1 | 16:36 |
sean-k-mooney | you can change the oder of the filters to elimiate more hosts in the intial filters | 16:36 |
bauzas | I thought ops were maybe wanting to describe filters and weights another way, but they were okay with a sequential approach | 16:37 |
gibi | OK so in summary, we don't see filters as a performance bottleneck of instance spawn. Therefore adding the complexity of the parallel exection does not worth it for us. | 16:37 |
harsha24 | Again the no filters shold be less than no of threads available | 16:37 |
sean-k-mooney | dansmith: yes im not arguign for threads by the way | 16:37 |
sean-k-mooney | harsha24: can you provide any data for this | 16:37 |
dansmith | maybe this request is actually just someone's master's thesis and not really reality? :P | 16:37 |
sean-k-mooney | harsha24: so we can look at a specici case | 16:37 |
gibi | sean-k-mooney: ++ | 16:38 |
gibi | I would like to see data that proves what we could gain | 16:38 |
gibi | before moving forward with this | 16:38 |
dansmith | the claim is also latency, | 16:38 |
dansmith | not throughput | 16:38 |
sean-k-mooney | harsha24: we have had ineffinctly inpmeneted filters in the past which have been optimised either at the db layer or in python | 16:38 |
bauzas | we're discussing about a finite number of possibilities | 16:38 |
artom | dansmith, oh be nice :) If harsha24 is looking to improve Nova performance, we should guide them to where we thing the biggest problems are | 16:38 |
bauzas | in general, we have less than 1000 nodes | 16:38 |
bauzas | so parallelism doesn't really help | 16:39 |
bauzas | even 100000 with say 10 filters is reasonable | 16:39 |
sean-k-mooney | well even if we have more placment will have narrowed it | 16:39 |
bauzas | right | 16:39 |
bauzas | and again, the whole thing was sucking because of the DB access times | 16:39 |
bauzas | again, latency as dansmith said | 16:39 |
dansmith | also, you can improve latency by reducing the number of results from placement, if you're claiming latency on an empty cloud where tons of hosts are considered by the filters | 16:40 |
bauzas | at least that's what a couple of summit sessions from CERN teached me | 16:40 |
sean-k-mooney | cern reduce it excessively | 16:40 |
bauzas | aarents: what are your findings btw ? | 16:40 |
sean-k-mooney | but yes | 16:40 |
dansmith | which is far less complex than threading any of the rest of the process | 16:40 |
bauzas | ++ | 16:41 |
johnthetubaguy | more request filters to remove filters? | 16:41 |
dansmith | johnthetubaguy: that's covered under the placement topic I think, but always better yeah | 16:41 |
sean-k-mooney | wehre possible | 16:41 |
johnthetubaguy | dansmith: true | 16:41 |
bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well, I wouldn't be that opiniated | 16:42 |
dansmith | meaning, as we do more of that, fewer real filters are required because placement gives us more accurate results | 16:42 |
artom | harsha24, are you following any of this, by the way? | 16:42 |
bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I'd say some ops would prefer having a fine-grained placement query and others would prefer looping over the filters logic | 16:42 |
artom | harsha24, was your idea to implement threading, or more generally to try and improve performance? | 16:42 |
johnthetubaguy | dansmith: +1 | 16:42 |
harsha24 | what if we use this as a plugin when there are few filters like less than 3 filters or so | 16:42 |
aarents | bauzas: we leaves with cluster of 1500 nodes on newton(placement free).. it is slow but it "usable" | 16:42 |
aarents | live | 16:42 |
bauzas | aarents: ah, I forgot you lag :p | 16:43 |
harsha24 | artom yeah | 16:43 |
sean-k-mooney | harsha24: we had plugins in the past that tried to use caching shcudler and other trick to spead up shcudling | 16:43 |
sean-k-mooney | in the long run that appoch ahs not worked out | 16:44 |
sean-k-mooney | you coudl do an experiment but im not sure the scudling is the botelneck in spawning an instance | 16:44 |
johnthetubaguy | well, caching scheduler became pointless, now placement does it better | 16:44 |
harsha24 | oh okay then its not feasible | 16:44 |
gibi | OK lets wrap this up. | 16:44 |
sean-k-mooney | johnthetubaguy: ya more or less | 16:45 |
harsha24 | does this method improves performance in weighers | 16:45 |
bauzas | caching scheduler was there because of the DB bottleneck, not because of the filters :) | 16:45 |
gibi | so the direct idea of paralelize the filter exection seems not worth it. please provide data to prove the gain. | 16:45 |
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bauzas | +1 | 16:45 |
harsha24 | I will try a PoC based on this | 16:45 |
gibi | harsha24: if you are here to improve performance in general, then I think artom had some idea where to gain omre | 16:45 |
bauzas | with a devstack env ideally, please | 16:45 |
johnthetubaguy | bauzas: agreed, and the filters, with loads of hosts too basically zero time, when I measured it in prod at a public cloud | 16:45 |
johnthetubaguy | s/too/took/ | 16:46 |
gibi | Is there any other open disucssion topic for today? | 16:46 |
artom | gibi, it was literally a random thought in my head, but I guess? | 16:46 |
gibi | artom: :) | 16:46 |
artom | End this! ;) | 16:46 |
bauzas | artom: I'd dare say good luck with improving I/Os on filters | 16:47 |
dansmith | we do async the neutron stuff already, IIRC, | 16:47 |
bauzas | right | 16:47 |
dansmith | and the cinder stuff has dependencies that make it hard, IIRC | 16:47 |
bauzas | we don't call cinder on a filter either way | 16:47 |
bauzas | and I'd -2 any proposal like it | 16:47 |
dansmith | bauzas: artom was randomly picking non-filter things | 16:47 |
bauzas | hah | 16:47 |
artom | *performance related* random things! | 16:47 |
artom | I wasn't talking about, like cabbages! | 16:47 |
bauzas | but I thought we were discussing about filters parralelism | 16:48 |
dansmith | bauzas: so this is not filter-related, but it was confusing in a discussion about...filters :) | 16:48 |
artom | Yes, to improve *performance* :) | 16:48 |
bauzas | right | 16:48 |
dansmith | bauzas: we were... | 16:48 |
sean-k-mooney | let go to #openstack-nova | 16:48 |
gibi | if nothing else for today then lets close the meeting. | 16:48 |
dansmith | please | 16:48 |
artom | I said "End this!" like 13 lines ago | 16:48 |
sean-k-mooney | and we can continue this there if we want | 16:48 |
gibi | thanks for joining | 16:48 |
bauzas | okay, my tongue is dry | 16:48 |
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sean-k-mooney | o/ | 16:48 |
gibi | #endmeeting | 16:48 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:48 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 27 16:48:36 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:48 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2020/nova.2020-08-27-16.00.html | 16:48 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2020/nova.2020-08-27-16.00.txt | 16:48 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2020/nova.2020-08-27-16.00.log.html | 16:48 |
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