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| sc` | #startmeeting openstack_chef | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 23 16:00:33 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack_chef)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_chef' | 16:00 |
| sc` | ohai | 16:01 |
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| sc` | doesn't seem like anyone else is around for the meeting. going to call it | 16:10 |
| sc` | #endmeeting | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:11 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 23 16:11:08 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:11 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-05-23-16.00.html | 16:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-05-23-16.00.txt | 16:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-05-23-16.00.log.html | 16:11 |
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| jroll | #startmeeting ironic | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 23 17:00:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jroll. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 17:00 |
| jroll | hi everyone | 17:00 |
| vdrok | o/ | 17:00 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 17:00 |
| lucasagomes | o/ | 17:00 |
| rpioso | \o | 17:00 |
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| jroll | as always, our agenda is here: | 17:00 |
| jroll | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic | 17:00 |
| devananda | o. | 17:00 |
| jroll | let's jump in | 17:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 17:00 |
| rama_y | o/ | 17:00 |
| alineb | o/ | 17:00 |
| stendulker | o/ | 17:00 |
| jroll | #topic announcements and reminders | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements and reminders (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:00 | |
| mgould | o/ | 17:01 |
| chopmann | o/ | 17:01 |
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| jroll | reminder to take the midcycle dates poll by next monday | 17:01 |
| jroll | #link http://doodle.com/poll/gpug7ynd9fn4rdfe | 17:01 |
| jroll | also, we had a green grenade run last week \o/ | 17:01 |
| jroll | huge thanks to all working on that | 17:01 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 17:01 |
| jroll | does anyone else have announcements or reminders? | 17:01 |
| cinerama | o/ | 17:01 |
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| jlvillal | o/ | 17:01 |
| pas-ha | o/ | 17:02 |
| JayF | o/ | 17:02 |
| jlvillal | Just big kudos to both vsaienko and vdrok for all their work on Grenade :) | 17:02 |
| jroll | ++ | 17:02 |
| vsaienko | \o | 17:02 |
| jlvillal | http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kudos | 17:02 |
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| jroll | #topic subteam status reports | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam status reports (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:03 | |
| jroll | as always these are on the whiteboard: | 17:03 |
| jroll | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard | 17:03 |
| jroll | starting around line 76 | 17:03 |
| * jroll gives people time to review | 17:03 | |
| sambetts | o/ | 17:03 |
| * dtantsur forgot about bug stats, will update soon | 17:03 | |
| krtaylor | 0/ | 17:03 |
| jroll | not many surprises here | 17:04 |
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| jlvillal | If people don't know. We have gotten a Grenade run to pass in the gate. With about 15 un-merged patches. But it did pass :) | 17:04 |
| devananda | let's get those patches landed, then! | 17:04 |
| JayF | Can those patches be consolidated somewhere so we can all review them? | 17:04 |
| * thiagop misses tags on gerrit | 17:05 | |
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| jroll | I think there's a topic for them | 17:05 |
| vsaienko | JayF: they are consolidated https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-newton-grenade-whiteboard | 17:05 |
| jlvillal | Yep. We will need to work on cleaning them up. They do span multiple projects. But there are a few in Ironic that we can get in probably relatively quickly | 17:05 |
| * dtantsur updated | 17:05 | |
| devananda | thiagop: you can use a topic name in gerrit like a tag | 17:05 |
| JayF | vsaienko: thanks! I'll have a look | 17:05 |
| lucasagomes | jlvillal, w00t that's fantastic! | 17:05 |
| thiagop | devananda: real tags would be great though | 17:05 |
| lucasagomes | good stuff vsaienko vdrok (and all others involved) | 17:06 |
| thiagop | btw, great job guys! | 17:06 |
| TheJulia | Thank you guys! | 17:06 |
| * jlvillal will be spending today going through the various Grenade related patches. | 17:06 | |
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| krtaylor | fantastic | 17:06 |
| mgould | vsaienko++ vdrok++ | 17:06 |
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| vdrok | jlvillal: will do | 17:07 |
| _milan_ | o/ | 17:07 |
| vdrok | thanks to you all too :) | 17:07 |
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| jroll | anything else on this topic? | 17:08 |
| jroll | I'll bring up JayF topic before open discussion | 17:09 |
| jroll | #topic Should IPA HardwareManager interface changes require a spec? | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Should IPA HardwareManager interface changes require a spec? (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:09 | |
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| jroll | JayF: dtantsur: bring your conversation here please :) | 17:09 |
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| JayF | So I wanted to have a bigger discussion about what changes in IPA we might want to be more careful/explicit about | 17:10 |
| JayF | mainly around changing the harwdare manager interface | 17:10 |
| dtantsur | jroll, it's not on topic | 17:10 |
| JayF | there have been several patches lately I've had to -1 because they break under multiple hardware manager support | 17:10 |
| JayF | and one was merged recently that (arguably) has the same problem | 17:10 |
| JayF | I'd like to propose we start protecting the HardwareManager interface in IPA the same way we would any other external Ironic interface; by requiring explicit design via spec when it changes | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | I don't agree with this assessment yet | 17:11 |
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| dtantsur | JayF, are you committing to read all this spec in a timely fashion? | 17:11 |
| TheJulia | JayF: it sounds like the context that other hardware managers exist seems to be missing, I could see a specification helping in that regard, except I worry about the weight of such | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | you = you personally | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | otherwise other cores will approve it just as well | 17:11 |
| JayF | dtantsur: I don't think it's about me; I think it's about use cases (admittedly, ones I care about) being ignored when changing an interface in our software | 17:12 |
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| dtantsur | I think the main problem is that very few people here understand how multiple hw managers work. I'm not one for sure | 17:12 |
| JayF | mistakes will happen, but the more we're explicit about design considerations | 17:12 |
| jlvillal | Is there any way for us to add tests to catch these cases? Or can we add docs/comments to emphasize about multiple hardware manager support? /me doesn't know | 17:12 |
| JayF | the less the information about why some patterns are bad will be isolated to inside my head | 17:12 |
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| TheJulia | jlvillal: somehow testing was my next question | 17:13 |
| dtantsur | JayF, so lets start with moving it our of your head, or you'll be the only ironic-specs-core who get review such changes | 17:13 |
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| JayF | I'm not saying I have some kind of magic to find these things, or that I want to block all those changes via jay | 17:13 |
| JayF | very much not what I want at all | 17:13 |
| TheJulia | big warnings in the code? | 17:13 |
| TheJulia | and go from there? | 17:13 |
| JayF | I'm just saying the last few times this has happened, it took some discussion to tease out all the edge cases | 17:13 |
| JayF | like what happened with lucasagomes and the node caching patches | 17:14 |
| JayF | and that having a specs process allows us to ask these questions, have them answered in a written format, and start disseminating that information | 17:14 |
| lucasagomes | yeah, from a personal experience, it's _very_ hard today to land a change in the hw manager interface | 17:14 |
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| * dtantsur would love to see programming interface that is easy to extend without a special knowledge | 17:14 | |
| lucasagomes | the design of it makes it hard to accommodate changes | 17:14 |
| dtantsur | lucasagomes++ | 17:14 |
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| JayF | I do not want to be personally responsible for documenting all the IPA/HWM edge cases; I'm not sure I know them all; but I do know lots more disucssion needs to happen around these changes than are happening today | 17:15 |
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| dtantsur | JayF, only if someone understanding the scope of the problem (= you) actually reviews these specs.. | 17:15 |
| lucasagomes | e.g out of tree managers should _not_ inherit from other hw managers (like the generic one) it should always inherit from the base hw manager class | 17:15 |
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| dtantsur | lucasagomes, WUT? | 17:15 |
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| dtantsur | if so, then lets talk about fixing the hardware manager interface, not about bringing in more bureaucracy.. | 17:16 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, yeah, well not sure if I can dump my brain here in this meeting cause the info is not even organized in my head | 17:16 |
| TheJulia | JayF: didn't you mention that you wanted to see more hardware managers in tree as an example for downstream and consumers to be able to implement thier own? | 17:16 |
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| jroll | yeah, I don't want to rearchitect this in this meeting anyway | 17:16 |
| devananda | how about documentation describing the design of that application, how we intend folks to subclass/inherit from it, and API documentation for the base classes? | 17:17 |
| jlvillal | It almost sounds like we could use a spec on how to change the interface. | 17:17 |
| dtantsur | devananda++ | 17:17 |
| TheJulia | devananda: ++ | 17:17 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, but think about a driver that inherits from another driver (say drac inherits from ilo, as an example). Out of tree managers are now inhertiting from existing hw managers (the generic one) instead of using the base class | 17:17 |
| jlvillal | Yes documentation ++ | 17:17 |
| devananda | maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like JayF has most of that in his head already | 17:17 |
| devananda | I know I do not | 17:17 |
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| jroll | like this? http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic-python-agent/#hardware-managers | 17:17 |
| dtantsur | lucasagomes, and that's correct IMO | 17:17 |
| jroll | only missing API doc for it, which is here: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic-python-agent/api/ironic_python_agent.hardware.html | 17:18 |
| jroll | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 17:18 |
| JayF | Which I wrote the majority of, fwiw | 17:18 |
| JayF | (me and josh iirc) | 17:18 |
| dtantsur | lucasagomes, "Custom HardwareManagers should subclass hardware.HardwareManager or hardware.GenericHardwareManager." | 17:18 |
| dtantsur | so it seems to be fine to subclass ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 17:18 |
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| dtantsur | anyway, the fix to my patch (according to Jay) is a one line dispatch -> dispatch_to_all, I'm not sure why all this panic | 17:19 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, yeah, I can show the example with the os_get_install_device() outside the meeting | 17:19 |
| JayF | I'm also saying if we had written a spec for this, I would've -1'd the design as well | 17:19 |
| dtantsur | we have a good record of landing a spec and then realizing we need to rewrite half of it | 17:19 |
| jroll | dtantsur: it seems to be a proposal, not a panic | 17:19 |
| lucasagomes | but overall, we need to re-think some of it's interface and document how to change it | 17:19 |
| JayF | because you changed the HWM interface when it wasn't really needed; we already have a method to initialize the hardware in a manager: evaluate_hardware_support() | 17:20 |
| JayF | which is run on every manager before IPA is fully started up | 17:20 |
| dtantsur | jroll, panic = rushing to revert the patch which only might break someone in some case | 17:20 |
| JayF | since a given HWM only knows it can support hardware if it initializes it first | 17:20 |
| jroll | okay let's slow down | 17:20 |
| dtantsur | JayF, evaluate is not the best word for "initialize", is it? | 17:20 |
| JayF | dtantsur: revert-then-converse is the accepted openstack way of handling post-merge core reviewer objections | 17:20 |
| JayF | dtantsur: I'm not arguing the interface is good, lol | 17:21 |
| dtantsur | JayF, we can deadlock on it ;) | 17:21 |
| jroll | so everything around this seems to be documented, us as reviewers tend to miss these things anyway | 17:21 |
| dtantsur | anyway, we're not talking about this particular patch, right? | 17:21 |
| jroll | jay has proposed the spec process as a way to miss less of this | 17:21 |
| jroll | people seem opposed to this - what other proposals do those folks have to fix it? | 17:21 |
| dtantsur | jroll, I'm not opposed to spec process here | 17:22 |
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| jroll | (keeping in mind this is a driver interface, essentially) | 17:22 |
| dtantsur | jroll, I'm pointing that we'll get blocked on JayF reviews, cause otherwise we don't quite understand the whole thing | 17:22 |
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| jroll | dtantsur: what do you need to understand it better? | 17:22 |
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| lucasagomes | jroll, first thing is a documentation (action point to Jay) so we all can read and better understand hw managers when reviewing it | 17:22 |
| JayF | I've written documentation, tried to solicit feedback on the interfaces in meetings over the last year or so as they changed | 17:22 |
| devananda | for changes to a driver interface in ironic, I would expect a spec -- why is this any different? | 17:22 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: like this? http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic-python-agent/#hardware-managers | 17:23 |
| JayF | I don't know what else I would need to do to disseminate this information. | 17:23 |
| * lucasagomes reads | 17:23 | |
| jroll | I also think the spec process makes sense here | 17:23 |
| devananda | JayF: my apologies for my forgetting that these docs exist - as I look at them, I recall reviewing them, but it's been a while | 17:23 |
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| dtantsur | jroll, this documentation is good, but it won't prevent me from doing the same patch :) | 17:24 |
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| dtantsur | I probably need to understand more how multiple hw managers even used | 17:24 |
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| dtantsur | I can think of adding clean steps and extending inspection, but I struggle to think beyond that | 17:24 |
| jlvillal | Maybe the code should have a link to the documentation. I imagine people making changes may not know about the documentation. Apologizes if the code already contains the links | 17:25 |
| JayF | Would you all be interested in kind of a ironic-tech-talk on how multiple managers can interact? | 17:25 |
| jroll | sure, and reviewers that review hw mgr changes should also do such a thing | 17:25 |
| dtantsur | JayF, +1000 | 17:25 |
| JayF | Cool; I'm already working on documentation and training this week, I'll add that to the list of things. | 17:25 |
| devananda | JayF: a tech talk on implementing a moderately-useful third-party HWM would be great | 17:25 |
| JayF | devananda: my process would be "rip proprietary bits out of onmetal downstream hwm, walk through how it works and why we did it that way" | 17:26 |
| dtantsur | oh great | 17:26 |
| JayF | I don't think there's a general understanding of how ... complex you can make a HWM :) | 17:26 |
| vdrok | I think that would be great too | 17:27 |
| jroll | cool, so JayF is going to do that | 17:27 |
| jroll | I still think spec process wouldn't be a bad thing, do people agree/disagree? | 17:27 |
| devananda | JayF: I suspect youre correct, and I suspect that that information right now exists only in the minds of a few downstream developers at large companies | 17:27 |
| JayF | I'll work on it, give me a couple of weeks. But my suggestion still stands, and I think there's still value in it | 17:27 |
| devananda | getting it out in the open would be really helpful | 17:27 |
| JayF | and I hate specs too :/ | 17:27 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, ++ (and JayF jroll thanks for the docs, I didn't know they existed) | 17:27 |
| vdrok | can we just make a folder in ironic-python-agent repo, and add the specs along with code? | 17:28 |
| vdrok | with like a couple of required sections | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | vdrok, how does it change the latency before spec is approved? | 17:28 |
| jroll | I'd prefer just do it in ironic-specs | 17:28 |
| devananda | jroll: practical consideration for specs here - would we need a separate repo, or could we file them in with ironic-specs? | 17:28 |
| devananda | heh | 17:28 |
| JayF | I mean, IPA is like ironic-lib | 17:28 |
| jroll | prefix title with "agent:" or something | 17:28 |
| JayF | it's tightly coupled to Ironic | 17:28 |
| * jroll not opinionated so prefers less infra | 17:29 | |
| JayF | so why wouldn't it go in ironic-specs with all the others? | 17:29 |
| dtantsur | interesting question actually. not all IPA hw manager changes directly affect Ironic | 17:29 |
| lucasagomes | I consider IPA a vital part of Ironic (since now the bash way is gone), so ironic-specs seems fine | 17:29 |
| dtantsur | i.e. the one in question does not | 17:29 |
| jroll | and that's okay | 17:29 |
| jroll | "this change doesn't impact ironic" | 17:29 |
| jroll | bam done | 17:29 |
| jroll | who wants to volunteer to add the agent impact section? | 17:29 |
| devananda | o/ | 17:29 |
| jroll | thanks | 17:29 |
| jroll | devananda: wanna send an informational email or shall I? | 17:29 |
| devananda | I'm pretty familiar with the spec tooling, should be easy to add that | 17:29 |
| dtantsur | devananda, jroll, lets expand the agent impact then into several sections | 17:30 |
| devananda | dtantsur: yah | 17:30 |
| devananda | jroll: don't care. I can do that today | 17:30 |
| jroll | sure, we can discuss those in gerrit | 17:30 |
| dtantsur | 1. agent API impact, 2. hw manager impact, (3. inspection impact? :) | 17:30 |
| jroll | I trust deva for a good first try at that | 17:30 |
| jroll | devananda: that'd be awesome, thanks | 17:30 |
| jroll | dtantsur: ramdisk environment impact :)" | 17:30 |
| dtantsur | lol | 17:31 |
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| jroll | somewhat serious, new dependencies are hard with 3-4 different builders | 17:31 |
| jroll | okay, anything else on this topic? | 17:31 |
| jroll | #topic open discussion | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:32 | |
| jroll | have at it folks | 17:32 |
| chopmann | here i go? | 17:33 |
| chopmann | :-) | 17:33 |
| vsaienko | jroll, I'm working at Neutron integration patches. I hope to upload an updated version tomorrow | 17:33 |
| jroll | vsaienko: awesome, thanks | 17:33 |
| jroll | chopmann: open to anyone :) | 17:33 |
| chopmann | jaoh and me are working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1583065 | 17:34 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1583065 in Ironic "[RFE] Support network switches provisioning" [Wishlist,Incomplete] - Assigned to Cornelio Hopmann (hopmann-n) | 17:34 |
| jroll | indeed | 17:34 |
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| JayF | Talking about IPA and testing ... I think we have a need (now-ish but really in the future too) for a DIB job in IPA (i.e., testing IPA inside a dib ramdisk). Does anyone know who in our community works on those the most? | 17:34 |
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| chopmann | (we are OpenSource contribution noobs :-P btw) | 17:35 |
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| dtantsur | JayF, HPE folks and us | 17:35 |
| JayF | I just know in my project-config proposed patch, we'd have voting coreos-src and tinyipa-src jobs, just seems like we should have a dib-src job as well to ensure we don't miss any deps there | 17:35 |
| chopmann | dtansur asked: Hi! What exactly remains to implement to support such switches? | 17:35 |
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| devananda | JayF: because the cusomtomization of HWM's is something we expect operators to need to do, WDYT about moving that info here? http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic/drivers/ipa.html | 17:35 |
| JayF | the idea being all ramdisks get a -src job in IPA to verify that works, then we go up to Ironic and test them against the rmadisk best suited for CI (tinyipa) and presume that the IPA gate jobs "protect" us from other ramdisk breakages | 17:36 |
| devananda | JayF: or somewhere here - http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic/#administrator-s-guide | 17:36 |
| chopmann | We dont really know which parts are afected by our request. | 17:36 |
| chopmann | Our Use-Case is not on the examples uses-cases. | 17:36 |
| dtantsur | chopmann, yeah, this RFE could use some details. did you even try doing that with whatever we have now? :) | 17:36 |
| JayF | devananda: It's kinda hard, right? I know when I want dev docs for IPA, I look in IPA codebase not in Ironic codebase. | 17:36 |
| JayF | devananda: if we moved some of them, we should move all of them, and change IPA docs themselves to just be a pointed | 17:36 |
| chopmann | The "Image" is just a config file (Text). | 17:36 |
| JayF | *pointer | 17:36 |
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| devananda | JayF: but "add or customize hardware manager" is something we need ops folks to do for *their* hardware | 17:36 |
| jroll | JayF: ++ then we could also run that dib-src job against dib | 17:36 |
| devananda | JayF: that's different than "change how IPA works" | 17:37 |
| JayF | devananda: there aren't even any docs in Ironic proper on customizing your ramdisk, is there? | 17:37 |
| JayF | devananda: all the build instructions and tooling are in IPA as well | 17:37 |
| devananda | JayF: no. that's my point. | 17:37 |
| chopmann | we can't use the ramdisk, these are embedded system (like cisco iOS) | 17:37 |
| sambetts | jroll, JayF: +1 to DIB job | 17:37 |
| jroll | devananda: JayF: I'd put words in drivers/ipa.html about "you may need to customize your IPA ramdisk, see this link" | 17:37 |
| devananda | JayF: we tell operators they need to customize the ramdisk, but we don't give them any info on *how* | 17:37 |
| dtantsur | chopmann, what are you even trying to achieve? just configuring these switches? | 17:37 |
| jroll | chopmann: this is totally something I'd like to do, fwiw | 17:37 |
| gabriel-bezerra | chopmann: maybe you should avoid iscsi and agent deployment drivers and devise your own deployment interface | 17:37 |
| JayF | jroll: ++ that's what I mean, just a pointer one way or another :) either move IPA docs to Ironic, and put a pointer in IPA, or add a blurb to Ironic docs that point to the IPA docs | 17:37 |
| jroll | chopmann: is this something you've implemented or looked into? | 17:38 |
| devananda | jroll, JayF: and I think doc'ing how to create a new HWM should be written for operators | 17:38 |
| devananda | not for developers | 17:38 |
| jroll | dtantsur: AIUI, clean and provision a thing with a base config for a new tenant | 17:38 |
| jroll | devananda: well, I'm told operators can't write python | 17:38 |
| chopmann | jep, the first step is configuring the switch. Point it to talk to a sdn controller | 17:38 |
| TheJulia | JayF: I would <3 a dib job, we have one in bifrost at least for making sure the main element works, and that has helped us catch a number of things in the past | 17:38 |
| devananda | (and yea I know, devops and things ... but there is a difference) | 17:38 |
| dtantsur | jroll, for what definition of "provision"? provided that an image is a text file.. | 17:38 |
| jroll | dtantsur: chopmann: and then have neutron or something for configuration beyond that | 17:38 |
| JayF | devananda: ConfigDrivenHardwareManager :P input a yaml file, it changes it into prioritized clean steps running utils.execute() on commands it's given, hehe | 17:39 |
| jroll | dtantsur: well, tell the switch to read it and do the thing | 17:39 |
| dtantsur | JayF, sounds not so bad tbh | 17:39 |
| jroll | dtantsur: update base OS, etc | 17:39 |
| dtantsur | hmm | 17:39 |
| JayF | dtantsur: I'm only half joking, I don't think it's a bad idea at all actually | 17:39 |
| devananda | jroll: oh, totally. so we should describe how to write a hardware manager in ruby ;) :P | 17:39 |
| dtantsur | jroll, how is it different from kickstart which we actively rejected? | 17:39 |
| jroll | this is actually a perfect use case for ansible deploy driver | 17:39 |
| chopmann | we are working on a PoC. Normal dhcp+tftp combo and point it to an instance (sdn controller) inside OpenStack | 17:40 |
| jroll | dtantsur: mostly that these can't run a ramdisk :) | 17:40 |
| sambetts | dtantsur, jroll: so many of these switches can get an init config via TFTP, think thats what they are going for, basicly just using ironic to configure the TFTP and serve it to the switch | 17:40 |
| devananda | chopmann: wouldn't the switch OS image itself be the image you deploy? | 17:40 |
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| devananda | chopmann: and then pass in the config (text file) like you would pass in user data? | 17:40 |
| dtantsur | jroll, yes.. still it's an OS configuration, not quite installation. like kickstart. I'm not against both of them, but I know that devananda is not fond of configuring OS | 17:40 |
| chopmann | yes and now. | 17:40 |
| chopmann | and no | 17:40 |
| jroll | yeah, I'd love for "deployment" to be "pull down your new software via tftp" | 17:40 |
| sambetts | so whitebox switches == deploy an OS on, these are blackbox switches == os already installed but they need bootstraping | 17:41 |
| chopmann | sambetts++ | 17:41 |
| devananda | sambetts: blackbox switch may have a different means of loading a new "OS", but they do need to update that sometimes too | 17:41 |
| devananda | sambetts: "boot OS" could be "reset firmware, apply base configs" | 17:42 |
| jroll | I'd like to see: copy tftp flash0:; copy run start; reload | 17:42 |
| jroll | be this driver | 17:42 |
| chopmann | that what i meant with yes and no. the images you load on those switches are sometimes 1+GB (and some sort of linux) | 17:42 |
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| chopmann | we dont want to do more than point it to the proper sdn controller | 17:43 |
| chopmann | the rest can be taken care with ironic/netman | 17:43 |
| chopmann | err neutron | 17:44 |
| devananda | jroll: sure. though, the exact sequence of commands will vary between vendor/model/revision | 17:44 |
| dtantsur | chopmann, to you plan to write a spec on it (sorry if you already did)? | 17:44 |
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| jroll | devananda: yeah, it's a strawman | 17:44 |
| chopmann | yes, after this :-) | 17:44 |
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| sambetts | my other concern is that I don't think an Ironic running at the same level as the neutron thats going to control that switch makes sense right? | 17:45 |
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| devananda | JayF: to your earlier point of -src jobs in IPA -- yes please | 17:45 |
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| JayF | devananda: yeah; I'm saying I'm working on it for the existing jobs. There's no dib-src job at all, and I think the scaffolding for it isn't in devstack yet either | 17:45 |
| sambetts | ironic in an undercloud providing a switch to an overcloud neutron makes sense, but i'm not sure about them at the same level seems like a layer break | 17:46 |
| JayF | devananda: so more a "call for someone to do the work" than volunteering, fwiw | 17:46 |
| JayF | lol | 17:46 |
| devananda | sambetts, chopmann: I'm not clear on that. how would you "point it to an sdn controller" to update the switch? | 17:46 |
| devananda | or do you mean, to apply configuration? | 17:46 |
| dtantsur | JayF, the patches are up for that IIRC | 17:47 |
| devananda | standing up an OVS-DB instance next to ironic, then booting a switch OS that supports OVS onto a switch, passing in enough configuration & credentials for it to connect back to the OVS-DB... that seems like all you'd need | 17:47 |
| chopmann | "to hand it over to the tenant" so he can use it in his env | 17:47 |
| dtantsur | JayF, I'll keen an eye on them, as we do use DIB-based agent in prod | 17:48 |
| devananda | chopmann: oh! I wasn't thinking of that use case | 17:48 |
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| devananda | chopmann: yea, spec please, with some clear description of your intended use case, would be very helpful to get the discussion going | 17:48 |
| jroll | yeah, the use case I've always had in mind is, provision to tenant, give them cli access | 17:49 |
| devananda | gotcha. not what I was thinking of | 17:49 |
| JayF | jroll: I think in our minds it's been more LBs or GWs rather than switches | 17:49 |
| sambetts | ++ to a spec | 17:49 |
| JayF | jroll: but the whole pattern could make sense together | 17:49 |
| chopmann | for public public cloud it could be a security problem (you can brick the switch), but if you do only OpenFlow, there is not that much you can break | 17:49 |
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| sambetts | JayF, devananda: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/264579/ | 17:50 |
| sambetts | JayF, devananda: work is ongoing for adding DIB support to ironic devstack ^ | 17:51 |
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| sambetts | chopmann: how do you see a user interacting with it? nova boot ? | 17:51 |
| JayF | sambetts: perfect; that'll be easy to integrate into tests once it's complete | 17:51 |
| devananda | sambetts: is that related to the switch discussion? | 17:51 |
| devananda | oh - I see | 17:52 |
| chopmann | alright then. We'll work on a spec. With our use-case outline, should we add more to it, or "expand/refine it" as the discussion grows | 17:52 |
| chopmann | sambetts: either throu the sdn controller itself or neutron | 17:52 |
| sambetts | chopmann: so the sdn controller would trigger a build in ironic? | 17:53 |
| jroll | chopmann: add as much info as you have today, and we'll go from there | 17:54 |
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| devananda | chopmann: describe the use case and problem in the opening secttions of a spec, following the template here: https://github.com/openstack/ironic-specs/blob/master/specs/template.rst | 17:55 |
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| devananda | chopmann: we can discuss on the spec review and help you flesh out the rest, or put it on the agenda here if it needs another broader discussion | 17:56 |
| chopmann | thanks guys! :-) | 17:57 |
| JayF | no problem good luck | 17:57 |
| jroll | (and girls) | 17:57 |
| jroll | 2 minute warning | 17:57 |
| chopmann | err and girls. thank you everyone ;-) | 17:57 |
| jroll | :) | 17:57 |
| jroll | okay sounds like that's it | 17:58 |
| jroll | thanks everyone | 17:58 |
| jroll | #endmeeting | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 23 17:58:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-05-23-17.00.html | 17:58 |
| sambetts | thanks ":D | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-05-23-17.00.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-05-23-17.00.log.html | 17:58 |
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| mgould | o/ | 17:59 |
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| flwang1 | #startmeeting zaqar | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 23 18:00:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is flwang1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar' | 18:00 |
| flwang1 | #topic roll call | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 18:01 | |
| flwang1 | o/ | 18:01 |
| flwang1 | anybody around? | 18:01 |
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| vkmc | o/ | 18:03 |
| vkmc | here | 18:03 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: hi | 18:04 |
| flwang1 | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-meeting-agenda | 18:04 |
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| flwang1 | i just worked out a etherpad to track our agenda in the future since i don't think the wiki page works :) | 18:04 |
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| flwang1 | vkmc: sorry for drafting it too late | 18:05 |
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| flwang1 | vkmc: seems only you and me today, so i think the meeting will be very short | 18:06 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: the most important patch for now is this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317134/ | 18:07 |
| flwang1 | it's blocking a lot of our zaqar patches | 18:07 |
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| vkmc | ok, looking at it | 18:08 |
| vkmc | will review after the meeting is done | 18:09 |
| vkmc | flwang, ^ | 18:10 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: ok, cool | 18:11 |
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| vkmc | same for the falcon patch | 18:12 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: ok, so except those patches, seems we don't have any feature in N-1 | 18:13 |
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| flwang1 | hopefully, i can get the tempest patch done in N-1 | 18:13 |
| flwang1 | and start to do the dead letter queue since N-2 | 18:14 |
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| flwang1 | vkmc: have you started the db migration work? | 18:14 |
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| flwang1 | vkmc: and i would like to know if you're still interested in docs work :) | 18:16 |
| flwang1 | in newton, i think both install guide and api ref will be hold in our tree instead of a central place like before | 18:17 |
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| flwang1 | vkmc: are you still there? | 18:19 |
| vkmc | flwang1, I haven't started with the db migration work | 18:19 |
| vkmc | I need to finish some work in Trove side | 18:19 |
| vkmc | do you want to have it done for N-1? | 18:19 |
| vkmc | and docs, I'm not updated with the latest requirements on that side | 18:20 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: ok, never mind | 18:20 |
| vkmc | I have to check the work that was done by Eva in Mitaka | 18:20 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: so do you have any topic we could discuss today? | 18:21 |
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| vkmc | not really | 18:22 |
| vkmc | last Friday I saw that there was some discussion going on | 18:23 |
| vkmc | regarding standarizing Zaqar messages | 18:23 |
| vkmc | for the TripleO integration | 18:23 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: oh, yes, i will reply that thread later | 18:23 |
| vkmc | yup, we should keep an eye on that | 18:24 |
| vkmc | and perhaps help with that work | 18:24 |
| flwang1 | i think it will be related to the lazy queue in subscription | 18:24 |
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| vkmc | cool | 18:27 |
| vkmc | other than that, I don't have any other comment | 18:27 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: ok | 18:28 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: i saw we have a new intern, right? | 18:28 |
| flwang1 | sj_? | 18:28 |
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| vkmc | sj_ wants to contribute, but she is not enlisted in any internships program | 18:29 |
| vkmc | maybe she will make it for the upcoming Outreachy round, but we haven't talked about it yet | 18:29 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: ok, got it | 18:30 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: thanks for that | 18:30 |
| flwang1 | let's end this meeting :) | 18:30 |
| flwang1 | and back to zaqar channel | 18:30 |
| vkmc | :) | 18:30 |
| flwang1 | #endmeeting | 18:30 |
| vkmc | sounds good | 18:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:30 | |
| vkmc | \o/ | 18:30 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 23 18:30:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2016/zaqar.2016-05-23-18.00.html | 18:30 |
| vkmc | thanks flwang | 18:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2016/zaqar.2016-05-23-18.00.txt | 18:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2016/zaqar.2016-05-23-18.00.log.html | 18:30 |
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| tonyb | #startmeeting stable | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 23 21:01:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tonyb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: stable)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'stable' | 21:01 |
| tonyb | Who's here for the stable meeting? | 21:01 |
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| ihrachys | o/ | 21:01 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: wow! late for you | 21:02 |
| ihrachys | it is | 21:02 |
| tonyb | mrunge: ? | 21:02 |
| tonyb | IIRC Matt's on leave this week | 21:02 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: If it's just the 2 of us then I might skip the agenda | 21:04 |
| tonyb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StableTeam#Agenda | 21:04 |
| tonyb | the periodic pipline is a little busted and I'll look at that today | 21:04 |
| tonyb | I don't think there's anything terrible just normal stuff | 21:04 |
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| ihrachys | the only thing I had worth mentioning is that client repos need constraints guarding too. we did it for neutronclient, and I think others may want to 'steal' the code from us. | 21:05 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317909/ | 21:05 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: did you need to use a tox_install "hack" due to constraints? or was there a neater way? | 21:06 |
| ihrachys | the main gotcha there is that we need to modify u-c.txt before passing it to pip to replace client line | 21:06 |
| ihrachys | tonyb: no, it's still tox_install.sh hack | 21:06 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: Ahh okay. | 21:06 |
| ihrachys | I wrote the script in a way that should be easy to copy and just replace one or two variables. hope it helps others. | 21:07 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: Thanks. I wonder if this is something to fix in pip | 21:07 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: I'll try to get a few minutes with lifeless today (if he's around) | 21:08 |
| ihrachys | ok. please ping me if the result of the chat is we do it wrong or smth | 21:08 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: will do | 21:09 |
| ihrachys | another thing from me to note is we landed some release-tools patches that introduce a bunch of scripts that operate with git and LP that may help folks identify backports: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/owner:ihrachys%2540redhat.com+status:merged+project:openstack-infra/release-tools | 21:09 |
| ihrachys | I plan for more tools, but that's the start | 21:09 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: nice. | 21:09 |
| * tonyb should clean up his one and check if it overlaps with yours | 21:10 | |
| ihrachys | overall, I would like to document the proactive backport approach taken by neutron in some common place like project guide or stable policy, so that I have something to refer when people ask about the process. do you think project guide is the right place? | 21:10 |
| ihrachys | I could obviously put it under neutron docs, but I hope it may be adopted more widely so maybe it's worth starting from common docs | 21:11 |
| ihrachys | thoughts? | 21:11 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: I have a foot in both camps. I'd start in neutron and then when we get a 2nd project using it move it to project-guide | 21:12 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: but perhaps that's just busy work. | 21:12 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: I think ttx would be a better person to make that call TBH | 21:12 |
| ihrachys | the busy work is actually writing up the thing :) | 21:12 |
| ihrachys | then it will be not that hard to move it around if need be | 21:13 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: You can "steal" some of it from you summit presentation ;P | 21:13 |
| ihrachys | yeah. we'll see. | 21:14 |
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| tonyb | ihrachys: Have you added Brian to the neutron-stable-core? (sorry if there's an email I haven't got to my inbox yet) | 21:15 |
| ihrachys | tonyb: not yet. I will do it this week unless someone raises a huge concern. | 21:15 |
| ihrachys | just haven't got to it yet. Mondays are always busy with meetings in my calendar | 21:16 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: ok. I doubt there will be an issue. | 21:16 |
| tonyb | Ahh of couse it's late Monday for you | 21:16 |
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| ihrachys | tonyb: huh, I think we use a wrong channel? | 21:17 |
| ihrachys | tonyb: it should have been in 4th one? | 21:17 |
| ihrachys | as per http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Stable_Team_Meeting | 21:17 |
| ihrachys | "Every two weeks (on odd weeks) on Monday at 2100 UTC in #openstack-meeting-4" | 21:17 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: Yeah I think I mis-converted the UTC -> AEST in my head | 21:18 |
| sigmavirus24 | :D | 21:18 |
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| * sigmavirus24 was looking for y'all elsewhere | 21:18 | |
| ihrachys | tonyb: to avoid that, you can add .ical file to your cal, and it will show you the channel | 21:18 |
| sigmavirus24 | Anyway | 21:18 |
| tonyb | ihrachys: done | 21:18 |
| * tonyb is a bad person | 21:19 | |
| ihrachys | :D | 21:19 |
| ihrachys | ok anything else to cover today? | 21:19 |
| tonyb | sigmavirus24: did you have anything? | 21:19 |
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| tonyb | Well I think we're done with a short meeting in the wrong place | 21:21 |
| tonyb | speak now or in #openstack-stable | 21:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | No, just wanted to say hello and listen in | 21:21 |
| tonyb | sigmavirus24: ok ... there will be logs :) | 21:22 |
| tonyb | #endmeeting | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 23 21:22:19 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-05-23-21.01.html | 21:22 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-05-23-21.01.txt | 21:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-05-23-21.01.log.html | 21:22 |
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| ihrachys | o/ | 21:23 |
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