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| ajo | hi :) | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| moshele | hi | 14:00 |
| ihrachyshka | o/ | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | o/ | 14:00 |
| vikram | hi | 14:00 |
| ajo | :) ping irenab | 14:00 |
| pcarver | hi | 14:00 |
| ajo | ok, let's start :) | 14:01 |
| ajo | #startmeeting neutron_qos | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 14:01:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ajo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos' | 14:01 |
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| ajo | #topic Where are we | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Where are we (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:01 | |
| irenab | hi | 14:01 |
| ajo | hi :) | 14:02 |
| ajo | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-qos-jun-3-2015 | 14:02 |
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| ajo | with the help of irenab , we have put an interactive agenda in etherpad | 14:02 |
| ajo | with some design details | 14:02 |
| ajo | and some points for today :) | 14:02 |
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| ajo | please name yourself in the top right icon of the etherpad before commenting :) | 14:03 |
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| sadasu | ajo: are you referring to this etherpad/ https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-qos-api-preview | 14:03 |
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| ihrachyshka | sadasu, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-qos-jun-3-2015 | 14:03 |
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| ajo | thanks ihrachyshka | 14:04 |
| sadasu | ihrachyshka: thanks! | 14:04 |
| ajo | ok | 14:04 |
| ajo | so, we got the API / service plugin spec approved | 14:04 |
| ajo | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88599 | 14:04 |
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| ajo | and we have a follow up addressing some final comments: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187513/ | 14:04 |
| vikram | great | 14:05 |
| vhoward | ajo, anthony and i will be working on finishing up initial drafts for specs tomorrow around dscp and will link them for everyones review | 14:05 |
| ajo | we also have specs for ML2/OVS: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182349/ and ML2/SR-IOV https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187895/ | 14:05 |
| ajo | vhoward, great, | 14:05 |
| vikram | do we need to raise RFE for new specs | 14:05 |
| ajo | please note the new RFE mechanism in place | 14:05 |
| ihrachyshka | beside specs, is there any code? | 14:05 |
| ajo | RFEs are basically to prevent you from writing a spec for nogthing | 14:06 |
| ajo | nothing | 14:06 |
| ajo | but still, I believe the spec is valuable in our context | 14:06 |
| ajo | in some cases (like this) you could not be required even to write a spec | 14:06 |
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| ajo | and just a simple devref explanation of what do you want to do | 14:07 |
| ajo | ihrachyshka: no code yet, we will get to organize that by the end of this meeting | 14:07 |
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| ajo | ihrachyshka, or was it a question to vhoward ? | 14:07 |
| ajo | I believe they have some code they can reuse | 14:07 |
| ihrachyshka | ajo, no, your response is what I looked for | 14:07 |
| ajo | ihrachyshka ack, thanks | 14:07 |
| ajo | . | 14:07 |
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| ajo | yesterday on neutron's meeting, we raised the openstack/neutron vs openstack/neutron-qos question | 14:08 |
| ajo | hi armax ;) | 14:08 |
| ajo | mestery suggested a feature branch, and we need to analyze work that out during this week | 14:08 |
| sc68cal | ihrachyshka: there is code for dscp marking | 14:08 |
| ajo | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-06-02-14.01.log.html#l-293 | 14:08 |
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| sc68cal | one thing that may complicate the OVS work - the new reference implementation split - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/176501/ | 14:09 |
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| irenab | sc68cal: I guess it will impact SR-IOV as well | 14:10 |
| ajo | a feature branch, is basically a branch of /neutron where we do all the work related to QoS, and when stable, that's finally merged to /neutron, or ... spun out (I'd definitely avoid feature branches if that's the final outcome and jump straight into separate repo) | 14:10 |
| vikram | ajo | 14:10 |
| ajo | because a later spin out may introduce all the CI overhead later in the cycle | 14:10 |
| vikram | ajo: is it in stackforge | 14:10 |
| ajo | vikram, starckforge first, then under neutron umbrella | 14:11 |
| ajo | which means openstack/..... as far as I understood | 14:11 |
| ajo | ihrachyshka, am I right? | 14:11 |
| ajo | vikram, talking about out of tree plugin, right? | 14:11 |
| vikram | ajo: yes | 14:12 |
| ajo | sc68cal: yes | 14:12 |
| ajo | sc68cal, that's true, OVS spin out may complicate things, but, we just need to track that | 14:12 |
| ihrachyshka | ajo, I guess so | 14:12 |
| ajo | ok, any question or concern about this? | 14:12 |
| * sc68cal gets out his butterfly net to chase all these pieces of neturon that are flying out of the main tree | 14:12 | |
| ajo | sc68cal lol | 14:12 |
| ihrachyshka | sc68cal, puzzle with 1000+ pieces, yea | 14:13 |
| vikram | ajo: so the patch i submitted for neureon-qos project will be approved? | 14:13 |
| ajo | sc68cal, if finally we spin out ref implementation, I have proposed myself to help a bit with it, so we have better track ourselves | 14:13 |
| ajo | vikram, no | 14:14 |
| ajo | unless there is any change in the end... | 14:14 |
| ajo | but no, so far.. | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | ajo: nice :) | 14:14 |
| ajo | #topic QoS design points | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QoS design points (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:15 | |
| ajo | irenab, do you want to talk about this one? :) I can interleave... | 14:15 |
| irenab | ajo: sure | 14:15 |
| irenab | so Lets start from server side | 14:15 |
| irenab | we will have QoS server plugin to manage QoS policy/rules | 14:16 |
| irenab | we have QoS policy to port/ent mapping API | 14:16 |
| sadasu | ajo: just to summarize from the previous discussion: qos api changes in a seperate feature branch (maybe) and the changes to OVS/SR-IOV refernce ML2 plugins will be in their respective stackforge repos | 14:16 |
| ajo | sadasu, correct, as they will be spun out... | 14:17 |
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| irenab | back to design? | 14:17 |
| ajo | yes :) | 14:17 |
| sadasu | yes irenab! | 14:17 |
| irenab | so for qos policy mapping lokks like there are 2 options | 14:18 |
| irenab | 1. support in qos service plugin | 14:18 |
| irenab | 2. ML2 extension | 14:18 |
| irenab | with option 1, it looks like more consistent way | 14:18 |
| irenab | with option 2, more easy way | 14:19 |
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| sadasu | irenab: what do you mean by more consistent way | 14:19 |
| ajo | with 1 we pave the way for other plugins | 14:19 |
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| ajo | and it's more consistent with the API proposal | 14:19 |
| irenab | all policy UUID resolution into real attribute should be handled by the qos plugin anyway | 14:19 |
| ajo | that means, | 14:19 |
| moshele | irenab: if we got with 1 can the service rpc with L2 agent or we need to implement new agent? | 14:20 |
| ajo | we may extend the port information just with the qos-profile-id but no more details | 14:20 |
| ajo | then the plugin is responsible of talking with the qos service plugin api to fetch the policy and rule details | 14:20 |
| irenab | ajo: right, and the question if we want to do it via Ml2 qos mapping extension driver OR qos plugin | 14:20 |
| ajo | I'd go for 1 | 14:21 |
| ajo | and then every plugin can do what it needs to do... | 14:21 |
| irenab | for me 1 lokks more consistent as well, but maybe we need to prototype the workflow to see how to achive it | 14:22 |
| vikram | so we will have separate plugins for OVS/LB/SR-IOV? | 14:22 |
| ajo | irenab: I agree | 14:22 |
| ajo | vikram, no, | 14:22 |
| ajo | all those are drivers within ML2 | 14:22 |
| irenab | we may need some differentiation in the QoS pplugin, since capabilities may differ | 14:23 |
| ajo | yes, | 14:23 |
| ajo | that's one of the points we need to resolve | 14:23 |
| irenab | my keyboard in a bad mood today :-) | 14:23 |
| ajo | plugin-wise it's very simple to add a mechanism for "plugins" (ML2, a, b c...) to register their available rules... | 14:24 |
| ajo | and then when those rules are created, we can just deny the ones not supported... | 14:24 |
| ajo | but | 14:24 |
| ajo | with ML2, we have one plugin | 14:24 |
| ajo | and many drivers, that can be running concurrently | 14:24 |
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| ajo | local, ovs, lb, sr-iov... | 14:25 |
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| ajo | not local, sorry | 14:25 |
| ajo | if you see the table in the etherpad | 14:25 |
| ihrachyshka | ajo, maybe ml2 could find common set to report as supported | 14:25 |
| irenab | What I am stil questioning is how port-create will deal with port extension supported by service plugin | 14:25 |
| ajo | not all of them have the same capabilities.. | 14:25 |
| ajo | ihrachyshka, yes, that makes sense, and resolves some part | 14:25 |
| ajo | but still | 14:26 |
| ajo | we may have issues: | 14:26 |
| ajo | 1) at port binding, if the port is bound to a sr-iov port (can we know that in advance?) | 14:26 |
| irenab | once port-create is invoked with —qos-profile=UUID, port creation will be handled by ML2 plugin | 14:26 |
| ajo | 2) at policy modification, for example, if your policy is applied to lots of ports (sr-iov, ovs..) | 14:27 |
| ajo | but you introduce a rule which is not compatible with all ports | 14:27 |
| irenab | ajo: I think your quesion is much more advanced then mine | 14:28 |
| ajo | once ports are bound... may be during port update, ML2 could refuse to accept the new policy... | 14:28 |
| ihrachyshka | ajo, you know which drivers are enabled, so the list of rules supported by all of them is predetermined. You can just check whether the new rule is among those. | 14:28 |
| ajo | Iok, | 14:29 |
| ajo | may be we're trying to dig too much in advance | 14:29 |
| irenab | is it possible in current neutron code to support port extensions in different plugins and not in L2 plugin only? | 14:29 |
| ajo | and it's something we could resolve during develpment | 14:29 |
| ajo | irenab, what do you mean? | 14:29 |
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| irenab | if we support qos-mapping port extension in qos service plugin, I am not sure if current API framework will handle it gracefully. | 14:30 |
| irenab | port is managed by L2 plugin (ML2) | 14:31 |
| pcarver | In order to support SR-IOV we would need that support in hardware, right? There's no OvS/LinuxBridge way of applying QoS to an SR-IOV VM VF | 14:31 |
| ajo | pcarver, correct | 14:31 |
| ajo | irenab, I don't see the issue, but, I guess we can solve this by jumping into a code POC | 14:32 |
| pcarver | So the ML2 plugin's vendor specific hardware driver is involved | 14:32 |
| irenab | so for now any port extension if supported by this plugin, and then there are mixins to take care of validations and persistency | 14:32 |
| ajo | irenab, plugins may need to signup for the "qos extension" yet | 14:32 |
| ajo | even if we don't have a mixin | 14:32 |
| ajo | and we do that via callback | 14:32 |
| ajo | that=extension | 14:33 |
| ihrachyshka | irenab, doesn't self.mechanism_manager.create_port_postcommit in ml2 pass all the needed info to driver? | 14:33 |
| irenab | ajo: so from the ‘supported_extension’ perspective, qos-mapping will go into ML2? | 14:33 |
| ajo | irenab, we need to provide a generic mechanism for plugins, and then in ML2 we could do it as we wanted | 14:34 |
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| ajo | may be I'm missing something, can we POC and resolve this into code to see how things fit? | 14:34 |
| irenab | the point I wanted to raise, that it seems that currently all ‘net’, ‘port’ extensions are supposed to be declared as supported by L2 plugin. We just need to see how to make it work. | 14:35 |
| irenab | with qos service plugin | 14:35 |
| ajo | yes | 14:35 |
| irenab | with other L2 plugins, it is the same | 14:35 |
| ihrachyshka | irenab, but qos will be still supported by ml2, it's just that specific rules available may depend on drivers. (or I completely misunderstand the concern) | 14:36 |
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| ajo | we need to resolve the specific rules per driver... either we fail/warning on port bind when we discover where/to which driver the port is bound | 14:36 |
| moshele | ajo: also on port update | 14:37 |
| ajo | or... we fail on QoS rules update if there is a port not supporting such rule (we may need to find a reasonable way to do such thing without specific ML2 knowledge) | 14:37 |
| ajo | moshele: correct | 14:37 |
| ajo | if we had more port states, some kind of warning could be sent back to neutron server about the ports with unsupported rules | 14:38 |
| irenab | ihrachyshka: it should work for ML2 with ref implementation, but be possible to leverage by other L2 plugins | 14:38 |
| ajo | I remember somebody was looking into that already | 14:38 |
| ajo | irenab: it should work for all plugins, | 14:39 |
| ajo | ML2 included | 14:39 |
| irenab | ajo: right | 14:39 |
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| ihrachyshka | irenab, sure. I don't see why it won't work. | 14:40 |
| irenab | but looks like with ML2 there are additional concerns, due to mixed drivers capabilities | 14:40 |
| ihrachyshka | yes, if we solve ml2, other plugins are even easier | 14:40 |
| ajo | correct | 14:40 |
| ajo | as we're resolving ML2 first, the mechanism should be there for all in the end | 14:40 |
| irenab | so for the next design concern | 14:40 |
| ajo | Agent side? | 14:41 |
| irenab | there are two tipes of plugins/mech drivers: agent and agent-less | 14:41 |
| irenab | ^types | 14:41 |
| irenab | so we should take care of both | 14:41 |
| ajo | examples of agent-less ML2 drivers? | 14:42 |
| irenab | agent-based will require QoS “extension driver” to deal with qos settings and reporting | 14:42 |
| moshele | ODL | 14:42 |
| irenab | ajo: cisco sr-iov? | 14:43 |
| ajo | thanks :) | 14:43 |
| vikram | opencontrail | 14:43 |
| irenab | ovn | 14:43 |
| irenab | looks like there are more agent-less than agent-based :-) | 14:44 |
| ajo | yep :) | 14:44 |
| ajo | so, the idea of the extension driver, is that you can extend the agents in a modular way | 14:44 |
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| ajo | reusing all the RPC communication, etc. | 14:44 |
| irenab | ajo: correct | 14:44 |
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| ajo | irenab: I added some notes to the etherpad, but may be is too long for this meeting | 14:45 |
| ihrachyshka | for agent-less, we don't do anything specifically, right? | 14:45 |
| ajo | I had an idea on how to have a generic RPC mechanism for all extension drivers | 14:45 |
| irenab | I think both OVS and SR-IOV specs are mentioning some qos driver api that they will implement | 14:45 |
| ajo | and even (later in time) make security groups an extension driver too | 14:45 |
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| vhoward | +1 | 14:45 |
| irenab | there will be a common layer above to make the information available | 14:45 |
| irenab | ajo: can you share your idea? | 14:46 |
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| ajo | irenab: yes, line 61 of etherpad | 14:46 |
| ajo | basically | 14:46 |
| ajo | we could use query + subscription to fanout queues to retrieve and register for "SG RULES" "sg-id" info | 14:46 |
| ajo | or "QOS PROFILE" "qos-profile-id" info | 14:47 |
| ajo | then the extension mechanism would receive the messages, and route them to the right extension | 14:47 |
| ajo | which subscribed | 14:47 |
| ajo | also | 14:47 |
| ajo | on the rpc side, the service plugins, or extensions, could register to this common rpc mechanism, saying | 14:47 |
| ajo | "I provide info for SG RULES", "I provide info for QOS profiles" , .... | 14:48 |
| irenab | ajo: PUB/SUB | 14:48 |
| ajo | so when somebody subscribes, it's notified, when somebody de-suscribes, it's notified... and it sends the information as changes hapen | 14:48 |
| ajo | happen | 14:48 |
| ajo | yes | 14:48 |
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| ajo | so, we would have common bits at ML2 level for the RPC messages | 14:49 |
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| ajo | but then, the service plugin would subscribe to that API saying: "I provide QOS PROFILE info" | 14:49 |
| ajo | even, if we use oslo versioned objects at some point, those could be seralized over the messages... | 14:50 |
| ajo | from rpc server to agents... | 14:50 |
| ajo | does it sound too crazy? or even slightly reasonable? :) | 14:50 |
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| gsagie | sorry for being late | 14:50 |
| gsagie | long meeting :( | 14:50 |
| ajo | hi gsagie :) np, we have minutes :D | 14:50 |
| irenab | looks like nice infrastructure, need to reread though … | 14:51 |
| vikram | it's basically a consumer / provider model ...right? | 14:52 |
| ajo | I think it melds well with the idea of providing rpc responses from the service plugin, the extension manager, and having a common mechanism to communicate extensions info.. | 14:52 |
| pcarver | ajo: I like it. But I don't think I've fully absorbed it yet. Definitely seems like a good path. | 14:52 |
| ajo | vikram , yes, with rpc in the middle and fanouts to optimize RPC traffic.. | 14:52 |
| ajo | pcarver, yes, I need to write a devref with more detail | 14:52 |
| vikram | ok | 14:52 |
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| ajo | ok, | 14:53 |
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| ajo | let's talk about the last point, and lets mature the idea to see if it really makes sense | 14:53 |
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| ajo | #topic organizing work | 14:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "organizing work (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:53 | |
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| ajo | if you go to line 94: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-qos-jun-3-2015 | 14:53 |
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| sadasu | ajo: agree with the model the way you have explained it, but not sure if we are missing anything here..your devref would help | 14:53 |
| ajo | sadasu, probably we're missing some detail, unexpected complexities everywhere :) | 14:54 |
| ajo | #action ajo to put the common RPC mechanism to a devref | 14:54 |
| sadasu | ajo: +1 | 14:54 |
| ajo | can you put your names next to the work points where you feel you could collaborate? | 14:55 |
| ajo | in the etherpad | 14:55 |
| ajo | probably the first step is the DB models | 14:55 |
| ajo | I haven't draw a dependency tree... | 14:56 |
| ajo | but time for liberty is tight | 14:56 |
| vikram | that would be nice | 14:56 |
| vikram | ;) | 14:56 |
| ajo | by the end of august, liberty-3 is closed, and feature freeze comes ;) | 14:56 |
| ajo | winter is coming... | 14:56 |
| ajo | ;) | 14:56 |
| irenab | ajo: will add later, my browser is stuck…. | 14:57 |
| irenab | need bulet for extension too | 14:57 |
| irenab | its different from DB model | 14:57 |
| ajo | ok, just signup or add any work piece I could have missed | 14:57 |
| vikram | how about horizon? | 14:57 |
| vikram | we need to do now? | 14:58 |
| gsagie | i think thats a low priority | 14:58 |
| ajo | horizon, right | 14:58 |
| ajo | it's low, but it's important | 14:58 |
| vikram | yes.. but need to deliver right? | 14:58 |
| ajo | let's add the bullet | 14:58 |
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| ajo | correct, but some tracking with horizon when we manage to get the API in place will be good | 14:59 |
| ajo | my browser is getting a bit crazy :D | 14:59 |
| ajo | ok, we're at the top of the hour... :) | 14:59 |
| vikram | ok | 14:59 |
| ajo | if you want to talk a few minutes more about work distribution I'll be happy #openstack-neutron | 15:00 |
| irenab | ajo: cli? | 15:00 |
| ajo | irenab: that's the command line client point :) | 15:00 |
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| ajo | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| irenab | oh, sorry missed it | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 15:00:34 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| ajo | thanks everybody for your incredible patience! ;D | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-06-03-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-06-03-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-06-03-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
| vikram | bye | 15:00 |
| moshele | bye | 15:01 |
| ajo | ah, I forgot , we can start working as WIP patches to master | 15:01 |
| ajo | probably I said it ;) | 15:01 |
| ajo | then we can move it to the right branch/project/whatever :) | 15:01 |
| ajo | to "the right place(tm)" | 15:01 |
| irenab | ajo: need to have the dependency between patches | 15:02 |
| ajo | irenab, yes | 15:02 |
| ajo | we will need to organize that | 15:02 |
| ajo | service plugin <- DB <- API extension | 15:02 |
| ajo | I guess that's the first thing | 15:03 |
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| -amotoki- missed QoS meeting time.... this is one of meetings I (he) can join before going to bed :-) | 15:03 | |
| irenab | I suspect some impact maybe in ML2 plugin, need to verify | 15:04 |
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| ajo | ameade ooo ;) | 15:12 |
| ajo | amotoki | 15:12 |
| ajo | sorry ameade ;) | 15:12 |
| ameade | haha | 15:12 |
| ajo | amotoki, we had some interesting ideas about a generic rpc path for details about ports & nets agents can consume | 15:13 |
| ajo | like qos-rules, or sg-rules + sg-members (if we refactor sg in such idea later in time) | 15:13 |
| ajo | this way we may not need to rewrite new messages for every new feature consuming port info | 15:13 |
| ajo | and... of course, apply the same optimizations to all :) | 15:14 |
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| mestery_ | armax dougwig amotoki marun: neutron-drivers meeting (30 minutes today) | 15:30 |
| armax | mestery_: ping | 15:30 |
| dougwig | o/ | 15:30 |
| *** mestery_ is now known as mestery | 15:30 | |
| amotoki | o/ | 15:30 |
| marun | \o | 15:30 |
| mestery | #startmeeting neutron-drivers | 15:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 15:30:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:30 |
| marun | o/ | 15:30 |
| armax | \o/ | 15:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:30 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:30 |
| mestery | #topic Agenda | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:30 | |
| * ihrachyshka lurks | 15:31 | |
| mestery | Disolve the drivers team and instead directly use lietenants | 15:31 |
| mestery | :) | 15:31 |
| mestery | thoughts? | 15:31 |
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| marun | +1 | 15:31 |
| mestery | I mean, not dissolve, but refocus | 15:31 |
| armax | well, I think the drivers team should be made up by | 15:31 |
| mestery | Since we have Lts. now, they need to be involved in evaluating RFEs | 15:31 |
| armax | lietenants | 15:31 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 15:31 |
| mestery | dougwig amotoki ihrachyshka: Thoughts? | 15:31 |
| marun | yeah, I was going to say. Still helpful to have a high-level group of ptl delegates | 15:32 |
| mestery | marun: Exactly | 15:32 |
| armax | this in turn means that marun and I give our seats to the other folks | 15:32 |
| dougwig | seems reasonable, except for when the current LT silos don't cover something. | 15:32 |
| mestery | armax marun: You both will forever be in my heart ;) | 15:32 |
| armax | and include the rest of the folks | 15:32 |
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| marun | dougwig: the ptl is responsible for everything not delegated | 15:32 |
| armax | mestery: I would personally still do the reviews etfc | 15:32 |
| mestery | ++ | 15:32 |
| mestery | right | 15:32 |
| mestery | I hope people keep reviewing! | 15:32 |
| mestery | They should! | 15:32 |
| mestery | Code, RFEs, etc. | 15:32 |
| armax | but yesterday it occurred to me that I have not the right visibility into some of the lietenant areas for juding an approval | 15:33 |
| mestery | I mean, even now, I am defering to Lts. for some of these specs/RFEs | 15:33 |
| mestery | armax: Exactly | 15:33 |
| amotoki | the driver team focus on the project management and mainly focuses on spec approvals. | 15:33 |
| armax | amotoki: agreed | 15:33 |
| marun | are drivers still the only ones to merge specs then? | 15:33 |
| armax | so it makes sense to let lietenants have that right | 15:33 |
| mestery | marun: Yes, and that would be made up of Lts. | 15:33 |
| marun | I thought the lts should have that right | 15:33 |
| marun | ah, ok | 15:33 |
| armax | marun: by the looks of it, yes | 15:33 |
| mestery | marun: But, I expect after Liberty-1 we will have a negligble amount of specs | 15:34 |
| marun | so lts are elevated to drivers essentially | 15:34 |
| marun | makes sense | 15:34 |
| amotoki | we can collaborate with lientenants and we can share our views. | 15:34 |
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| mestery | marun: yes, exactly! | 15:34 |
| ihrachyshka | so drivers are now lieutenants + existing drivers? | 15:34 |
| mestery | amotoki: Keep in mind, you and dougwig are Lts., so there is no change for either of you | 15:34 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: No, marun and armax would be out since they are not Lts. | 15:34 |
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| amotoki | mestery: i know, but only dougwig and me are intersections ;-) | 15:35 |
| mestery | :) | 15:35 |
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| mestery | amotoki: So, you are advocating for keeping a separate drivers team to do project management, etc,? That's a fair point. | 15:35 |
| ihrachyshka | how come armax is not in drivers team??? :) | 15:35 |
| dougwig | i think it was a natural consequence, though it seems to me to be too quickly, but i don't have any objection. | 15:35 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: because I am not a lt | 15:35 |
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| mestery | ihrachyshka: Personal choice :) | 15:35 |
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| armax | rest assured that my level of involvement is not going to change | 15:36 |
| armax | at least for the reasonable time being :) | 15:36 |
| amotoki | I don't think we should have more separate teams. | 15:36 |
| marun | So long as the ptl can maintain relationships with all the lts this should be fine | 15:36 |
| marun | if the number grows unmanageble, middle management may be required | 15:36 |
| mestery | :( | 15:37 |
| mestery | Reasonably, 7 is about the max | 15:37 |
| armax | amotoki: what separate teams are your thinking of? | 15:37 |
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| marun | linux manages quite a deep hierarchy | 15:37 |
| mestery | Although, I am going to start "IRC office hours" for "PTL to Lt. communication" each week | 15:37 |
| marun | so it is possible | 15:37 |
| armax | I think mestery needed to intereact on a regular basis with lietenants | 15:37 |
| dougwig | an LT per tent repo is probably unmanageable already. :) | 15:37 |
| armax | that can happen in the context of this meeting | 15:37 |
| mestery | dougwig: True dat. | 15:37 |
| mestery | Actually | 15:37 |
| mestery | Now that we're discussing this | 15:37 |
| mestery | I am starting to understand amotoki's points | 15:38 |
| * dougwig left his tea brewing for half an hour. danger. | 15:38 | |
| mestery | the fact each repo in the neutron stadium has a Lt. now makes the team large already | 15:38 |
| marun | I'm not sure everything in the tent needs direct ptl oversight though | 15:38 |
| armax | mestery: care to elaborate? | 15:38 |
| armax | marun: right | 15:38 |
| mestery | marun: IT does! By coming in, they are agreeing to it, but how much time will it take? Debatable. We won't know until Liberty is done to be honest. | 15:38 |
| marun | I mean, the argument for ovn's inclusion was that it wouldn't add work to ptl | 15:38 |
| mestery | Experimentation is #ftw | 15:38 |
| marun | If that's not true, we're in trouble | 15:38 |
| mestery | For OVN, I'm already intimiately involved there, so it wasn't a problem | 15:39 |
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| marun | So they get special treatment :/ | 15:39 |
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| mestery | I wouldn't say special treatment | 15:39 |
| armax | mestery: I think this boils down to stuff that must go in neutron proper | 15:39 |
| dougwig | marun: they are meant to be mostly standalone, but the ptl is there if needed. | 15:39 |
| marun | Honestly, if we don't prioritize effort we'll be overworked indefinitely | 15:39 |
| armax | or the interface with external parties | 15:39 |
| mestery | right | 15:39 |
| marun | Not everything in the tent is equally deserving | 15:39 |
| mestery | marun: I agree! | 15:39 |
| armax | for that we can keep an ad-hoc approach | 15:39 |
| mestery | ++ marun | 15:39 |
| *** zz_jgrimm is now known as jgrimm | 15:40 | |
| amotoki | marun: ++ | 15:40 |
| dougwig | there's in the tent, and then there's in the same sleeping bag. | 15:40 |
| * marun thinks dougwig missed his calling as a comedian | 15:40 | |
| mestery | OK | 15:40 |
| marun | So wrt lts getting direct oversight from ptl... | 15:41 |
| mestery | So, this is all good feedback | 15:41 |
| marun | Shouldn't that be on a prioritized basis on how important the area of responsibility is perceived to be to the project? | 15:41 |
| mestery | marun: It is, yes! | 15:41 |
| armax | so, to recap: drivers team == made up of neutron lt’s | 15:41 |
| mestery | armax: I don't think everyone agreed to that yet :) | 15:41 |
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| mestery | amotoki still had concerns about dissolving the existing drivers team in favor of Lts. being the new drivers team | 15:42 |
| armax | the tent projects lt’s as being defined by russellb patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187733/ will have ad hoc interaction with the neutron ptl? | 15:42 |
| mestery | Also, do we allow LTs. from stadium projects into drivers? I would say no. | 15:42 |
| marun | mestery: I think so long as you're comfortable directly interacting with the lts, it's fine. | 15:42 |
| mestery | armax: Yes | 15:42 |
| armax | mestery: what cocnern? | 15:42 |
| mestery | armax: Correct | 15:42 |
| marun | mestery: If/when it becomes too much work, then we can revsiit | 15:42 |
| mestery | marun: Right, agreed. | 15:42 |
| dougwig | i would suggest that the drivers team be "drivers + LTs", to give yourself some wiggle room for broader delegation. | 15:42 |
| armax | mestery: ok, so does my summary make sense? | 15:43 |
| mestery | marun: Thus, my idea of weekly IRC office hours for Lt. interaction | 15:43 |
| armax | dougwig: no, I would oppose to the idea | 15:43 |
| mestery | marun: This is how ttx has moved the general realease work to as well | 15:43 |
| mestery | There are no longer 1:1s between ttx and the PTLs, just office hours | 15:43 |
| marun | dougwig: nothing stopping lts from being anybody responsible for anything | 15:43 |
| dougwig | armax: i mean, you can still stop being a driver. :) | 15:43 |
| mestery | dougwig: That works too | 15:43 |
| armax | dougwig: but at that point if we enlarge the team so why why do we have the drivers team at all? | 15:43 |
| marun | mestery: cool | 15:43 |
| mestery | OK, let me write something up and share it with everyone on this. | 15:44 |
| mestery | Does that sound fair? | 15:44 |
| armax | dougwig: it’s either a small drivers team or no drivers teamm at all | 15:44 |
| * mestery gest out his DMV clipboard | 15:44 | |
| marun | I think this represents an expansion of driver responsibility along with increasing the membership. | 15:44 |
| dougwig | so maybe he can delegate all the decomposed plugins to one person. or maybe add nobody to that half of the group. it's his organizational call. | 15:44 |
| armax | mestery: I got number 4434343 | 15:44 |
| mestery | lol | 15:44 |
| marun | and we're renaming it too | 15:44 |
| marun | it is confusing, I'll admit | 15:44 |
| armax | what are we renaming? | 15:44 |
| marun | I wish we had been able to use the term 'maintainers', frankly. | 15:44 |
| mestery | neutron-intent-based-lieutenant-policy-chaining? ;) | 15:44 |
| amotoki | though i canot follow all discussions... lts are regarded as some kind of specialists of specific areas. on the other hand drivers team review specs and priorities. the role is a bit different but the goal is similar. | 15:45 |
| dougwig | you forgot flavors | 15:45 |
| marun | drivers -> lts | 15:45 |
| mestery | marun: ++ to maintainers | 15:45 |
| mestery | dougwig: Nuts! | 15:45 |
| marun | or at least member of drivers team -> lts | 15:45 |
| mestery | #action mestery to sort out neutron-drivers vs. Lts. and the path forward | 15:45 |
| marun | or maybe amotoki's idea is drivers is lts + non-lt drivers? | 15:45 |
| mestery | I gave myself a work item | 15:45 |
| armax | not sure where the disconnect is: I think that what it’s being advocated here is that members of the drivers team are selected from the LT’s pool | 15:46 |
| mestery | Are people ok with me coming up with a solution here and driving consensus? | 15:46 |
| amotoki | I trust all drivers and lts and I have no worry about merging both. | 15:46 |
| marun | I don't know if the distinction of driver with area of code responsibility vs driver with area of non-code responsibility is justified. | 15:46 |
| armax | as they are the ones who need to care for their area of specialization, they have intimate knowledge of what needs to get done, fixed etc | 15:46 |
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| marun | mestery: yes | 15:46 |
| mestery | OK | 15:46 |
| dougwig | there is an interesting dynamic to this conversation, wherein armax and marun are opposed to the drivers continuing in their current form. if you're that adamant, why are you still in the group? aren't you really saying that you want out? | 15:46 |
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| mestery | We have 13 minutes left, shall we move on? | 15:46 |
| marun | dougwig: It doesn't make sense for me to be in the group regardless. | 15:47 |
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| * mestery waits for responses to dougwig's point | 15:47 | |
| armax | dougwig: you’re reading it wrong, but at this point yes, | 15:47 |
| armax | I want out | 15:47 |
| marun | dougwig: I have no vested interest in any given outcome, just that it should make sense to everyone involved. | 15:47 |
| armax | because it makes no sense for me to +A a spec whose ultimate impact should be determined by the LT | 15:47 |
| armax | that’s all I am saying | 15:48 |
| dougwig | so you don't see your broader knowledge of neutron than most as having additional value in spec review? (and it's broader, and with longer history, than mine.) | 15:48 |
| armax | the drivers team main feat was the +A right | 15:48 |
| armax | that’s all | 15:48 |
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| mestery | armax: Also, consistency | 15:48 |
| armax | dougwig: I am not saying that I am stopping reviewing | 15:48 |
| dougwig | armax: fair point. | 15:48 |
| amotoki | my understanding for the driver team is not to rush to approve specs. I think it is important point. | 15:49 |
| armax | only that the last say into whether something needs to be +A or not does not lie with me | 15:49 |
| mestery | one of hte original goals of the small drivers team was consistency from release to release | 15:49 |
| armax | dougwig: ^ | 15:49 |
| mestery | If we make hte team too big, we lose that | 15:49 |
| mestery | amotoki: ++ | 15:49 |
| mestery | Lots more to discuss here I think, but this is all good! Thanks for all the feedback everyone! | 15:49 |
| marun | I think this bears further thought, in any case. | 15:49 |
| dougwig | mestery: yes, that's the thing that might get lost, although i see that as moving back onto the PTL's shoulders if this stays as simply "LTs". | 15:49 |
| armax | amotoki: agreed, but the lt’ team is only 7 folks now, and we’d need a bit of extra help | 15:49 |
| armax | especially if the core team grows, then the ratio is not too bad | 15:50 |
| amotoki | armax: agreed. | 15:50 |
| mestery | I'll write something up to share with folks by Monday. | 15:50 |
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| mestery | In either case, we'll iterate on gerrit and see what we come up with. | 15:50 |
| mestery | Ideally, we keep this meeting to 9 more minutes :) | 15:50 |
| mestery | Shall we look at at least a few RFEs now? | 15:51 |
| armax | sounds good | 15:51 |
| mestery | #topic RFE review | 15:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFE review (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:51 | |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=rfe | 15:51 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1460177 | 15:51 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1460177 in neutron "Support metadata service with IPv6-only tenant network" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 15:51 |
| mestery | Lets start with this one | 15:51 |
| mestery | Because I think it's an example of a good RFE overall | 15:51 |
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| mestery | "metadata only works with IPv4, and we'd like it to work for tenants with IPv6 only networks." | 15:52 |
| mestery | Thoughts by folks? | 15:52 |
| russellb | +1 sane | 15:52 |
| amotoki | it sounds reasonable for pure IPv6 world. | 15:53 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move it to triaged, which means that work can proceed on it. armax dougwig marun, good with this? | 15:53 |
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| marun | yes | 15:53 |
| armax | I am wondering how cloud-init works with IPv6 | 15:54 |
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| dougwig | aren't all ipv4 addresses also ipv6? | 15:54 |
| russellb | says cloud-init can be configured with other URLs | 15:54 |
| mestery | yes | 15:54 |
| dougwig | i thought it was a simple no prefix scenario. | 15:54 |
| dougwig | so i'm confused why that ipv4 won't work, but that's ok. | 15:55 |
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| dougwig | i'm too far into the weeds. | 15:55 |
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| armax | russellb: if that’s the case, then it should be fine | 15:55 |
| amotoki | i understand we need to identify prbolems to support preu ipv6 world, but it is worth triaged. | 15:55 |
| armax | I wonder if a more elegant approach would be adopting config-drive | 15:55 |
| russellb | there's no adopting needed, that already works | 15:55 |
| russellb | but metadata service is pretty well known and established, seems fine to make sure it works via ipv6, as well | 15:56 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 15:56 |
| armax | russellb: + | 15:56 |
| mestery | This one is good | 15:56 |
| mestery | How about this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1461000 | 15:56 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1461000 in neutron "[rfe] openvswitch based firewall driver" [Undecided,Triaged] - Assigned to Jakub Libosvar (libosvar) | 15:56 |
| mestery | This was an example of a not so good RFE (we're learning, I'm not picking on the submitters) | 15:57 |
| mestery | But kuba's response is good | 15:57 |
| mestery | kuba's update is solid | 15:57 |
| mestery | I moved this to triaged I realized before consulting in this meeting, but it's fairly obvious we want this, does anyone disagree? | 15:57 |
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| russellb | seems obviously good to me :) | 15:58 |
| marun | no disagreement | 15:58 |
| amotoki | sounds good to me. | 15:59 |
| mestery | added a note to the bug | 15:59 |
| mestery | Lets do one more | 15:59 |
| mestery | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1460222 | 15:59 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1460222 in neutron "Add 'labels', a list of opaque strings, to the neutron 'port' object" [Undecided,Triaged] | 15:59 |
| mestery | armax: You moved this to triaged I think? | 15:59 |
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| armax | mestery: yes | 16:00 |
| mestery | I'm fine with that, just letting other folks know. | 16:00 |
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| mestery | armax: Any idea who this should be assigned to? | 16:00 |
| russellb | i think nova has a thing very similar, but they call it tags | 16:00 |
| * mestery notes it shouldn't be armax | 16:00 | |
| russellb | would be nice to be consistent | 16:00 |
| russellb | but i'm fine with the concept | 16:00 |
| mestery | russellb: Comment in the bug? :) | 16:00 |
| amotoki | my question is whether we should allow 'labels' for all other resources. | 16:00 |
| armax | acknoledging that we starteed the discussion | 16:00 |
| mestery | Consistency is good | 16:00 |
| dougwig | speaking as a vendor who has wanted to stash some meta-data in the past, it was always pushed back against as "locking in". | 16:01 |
| armax | I am wondering if we can achieve the use case proposed with what we got already | 16:01 |
| armax | like binding:profile | 16:01 |
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| mestery | dougwig: In effect, that is partially the goal from the proposer here as well to be honest | 16:01 |
| dougwig | that's basically adding a key=value meta store to each object. which i agree with, but which has already been rejected before. | 16:01 |
| russellb | ugh, it's actually proposed as info interpreted by the backend | 16:01 |
| mestery | dougwig: But the general concept seems ok | 16:01 |
| russellb | more backend specific pass-through is harmful IMO | 16:01 |
| mestery | russellb: Right | 16:01 |
| mestery | That was my concern as well | 16:01 |
| russellb | i assumed it'd be just used for clients to do filtering | 16:01 |
| russellb | the more vendor specific stuff added, the less valuable neutron is as an abstraction | 16:02 |
| dougwig | yes, this is purely an aid for vendor specifics. we should be upfront about that. | 16:02 |
| mestery | russellb: Agreed, and the harder it becomes for people to switch backends, etc. | 16:02 |
| armax | russellb: binding:profile is effectively already doing that | 16:02 |
| mestery | Can you folks comment in the bug with this info too? russellb dougwig | 16:02 |
| mestery | :) | 16:02 |
| * russellb will comment on the bug | 16:02 | |
| russellb | armax: right, and i think that's bad too :) | 16:02 |
| marun | opaque bags of data for everyone! | 16:02 |
| armax | so, we sort have that ship already sailed | 16:02 |
| dougwig | flavors also does this, but puts the configuration control in the hands of operators. | 16:02 |
| mestery | marun: lol | 16:03 |
| russellb | armax: doesn't have to get worse | 16:03 |
| mestery | Lets be honest, this is an attempt to end-run neutron, bottom line. | 16:03 |
| armax | russellb: however that can be used for a number of other use cases, I was talking to Sukhdev and he mentioned that he uses it for bare metal provisioning | 16:03 |
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| mestery | armax: Not everyone will use their special powers for good :) | 16:03 |
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| dougwig | if it didn't have use cases, we wouldn't have flavors being worked on. | 16:03 |
| mestery | dougwig: ++ | 16:03 |
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| armax | there was also another proposal made in the past about tagging core resoruces | 16:04 |
| mestery | yes, the yahoo one from manesh right? | 16:05 |
| armax | despite what some people think | 16:05 |
| armax | mestery: yes | 16:05 |
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| armax | I think that pushing back is not really a viable long-term solution | 16:05 |
| marun | There are too many valid use cases to ignore | 16:05 |
| marun | So long as core neutron doesn't rely on these fields, I think it's fine. | 16:06 |
| mestery | marun: to quote you, "opaque bags of data for everyone!" | 16:06 |
| amotoki | but we need a common way to interact with other projects. vendor specific way is not diresable. | 16:06 |
| dougwig | i think all of those uses cases are covered by flavors, if we can ship it. | 16:06 |
| HenryG | lol | 16:06 |
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| marun | mestery: but if neutron isn't using them, I don't think it matteres | 16:06 |
| mestery | dougwig: We have to ship it in Liberty | 16:06 |
| armax | marun: ++ | 16:06 |
| russellb | i think it does matter in terms of interop | 16:07 |
| marun | mestery: I'm more concerned with neutron itself relying on opaque data bags. | 16:07 |
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| armax | amotoki: we give the tool, if the tool is misused is not our fault | 16:07 |
| mestery | Lets be honest here, there are valid use cases for this, yes. Will people use this for nefarious purposes? Absolutely! Should we care? If it harms the concept of neutron and waters it down, yes. | 16:07 |
| russellb | it means code written against one openstack does not work against another | 16:07 |
| russellb | it makes interop worse | 16:07 |
| mestery | marun: We can't rely on opaque data blogs agreed | 16:07 |
| marun | russellb: that's a given | 16:07 |
| marun | russellb: and a reality today | 16:07 |
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| armax | russellb: that’s an academic point to be honest | 16:07 |
| marun | russellb: It does beg the question of how we can deal with that reality constructively. | 16:07 |
| armax | russellb: no two openstack clouds are alike and interoperable, period. | 16:07 |
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| marun | russellb: without stalling useful efforts or requiring a bunch of rework to existing stuff | 16:08 |
| russellb | take each use case and define a proper abstraction that serves it | 16:08 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 16:08 |
| russellb | instead of just adding pass through data bags | 16:08 |
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| marun | russellb: easier said than done in a landscape of conflicting vendor requirements | 16:08 |
| russellb | i do not disagree :) | 16:08 |
| marun | :) | 16:08 |
| dougwig | to level-set, flavors, as approved today, is nothing but a big table of opaque data bags associated with neutron objects, which must be enabled by operators and then can be seen by plugins/drivers. we have already approved this concept, in a way that doesn't promote lock-in, and doesn't touch the core data models. | 16:08 |
| *** zz_jgrimm is now known as jgrimm | 16:09 | |
| mestery | dougwig: ++ | 16:09 |
| marun | I think interop is a pipe dream where specialized behavior is being provided by specialized solutions | 16:09 |
| armax | dougwig: so do you think that’s another viable appraoch to solving this use case? | 16:09 |
| marun | at least above lowest-common-denominator capabilities | 16:09 |
| armax | if so, we should capture that on the rfe bug | 16:09 |
| marun | Given that, maybe we should find ways to make this clear to operators? | 16:09 |
| amotoki | we allow some way for vendors, but it is better most things are common. it is one of our (neutron) important roles. | 16:10 |
| dougwig | armax: yes, you could create ODL flavored ports. | 16:10 |
| marun | So they can make decisions based on the long term cost/benefit of the loss of interop vs capabilities? | 16:10 |
| mestery | ODL flavored ports, now with less testing! :) | 16:10 |
| armax | dougwig: I would love pointers | 16:10 |
| dougwig | armax: well, an operator could choose to define ODL flavored ports, which would then be accessible, to be clearer. | 16:10 |
| armax | so that the bug author can explore with it too | 16:10 |
| dougwig | i'll comment on the bug. | 16:10 |
| armax | dougwig: thanks, much appreciated | 16:11 |
| mestery | yes, lets comment on the bug and drive discussion there for ODL flavored ports | 16:11 |
| mestery | dougwig: That is too rich not to keep using :) | 16:11 |
| dougwig | that sounds kinda dirty, and i almost regret hitting enter. :) | 16:11 |
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| dougwig | and we killed all conversation. | 16:12 |
| mestery | OK | 16:12 |
| mestery | Since we are still here | 16:13 |
| mestery | And have 17 minutes or so left | 16:13 |
| * russellb got distracted sorry :) | 16:13 | |
| mestery | shall we keep going? | 16:13 |
| armax | I think we should be vigilant on how certain tools provided by teh systems are used to make sure that people do not shoot themselves in the foot | 16:13 |
| kevinbenton | so what purpose does neutron serve if we give up caring about interop... | 16:13 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: The point is we are not giving up on interop | 16:13 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: This bug will make interop worse, thus the discussion | 16:13 |
| mestery | :) | 16:13 |
| russellb | i think debating these features is very healthy fwiw | 16:13 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 16:13 |
| russellb | gets at the heart of what neutron should be, and where lines are drawn | 16:13 |
| russellb | really good stuff | 16:13 |
| mestery | cool | 16:14 |
| amotoki | russellb: + | 16:14 |
| armax | I think we’re mixing the what we provide with how it’s being used | 16:14 |
| mestery | I am firmly in the camp of "neutron is an abstraction and should be a DB/API layer" | 16:14 |
| mestery | Just to be clear | 16:14 |
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| armax | when gunpowder was invented it clearly had various applications | 16:14 |
| armax | we can make pretty fireworks | 16:15 |
| mestery | lol | 16:15 |
| armax | or kill people | 16:15 |
| kevinbenton | i suppose that was directed at marun | 16:15 |
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| marun | kevinbenton: The reality is that interop has only ever been lcd | 16:15 |
| kevinbenton | marun: what do you think the job of neutron is if interoperability is a pipe dream? | 16:15 |
| kevinbenton | marun: lcd? | 16:15 |
| marun | kevinbenton: and hopefully we bump lcd over time to encompass more features as they mature and become more widely distributed | 16:15 |
| marun | lowest common denominator | 16:16 |
| russellb | i read lcd as lsd ...... | 16:16 |
| mestery | lol | 16:16 |
| dougwig | i don't think it's a pipe dream, and default neutron is interoperable. but if an operator *chooses* to modify neutron to be non-interoperable, for their needs, why should we try to prevent that? | 16:16 |
| mestery | marun: nothign wrong with that | 16:16 |
| russellb | i was so confused ... and intrigued | 16:16 |
| armax | russellb: LOOL | 16:16 |
| kevinbenton | well stuff like port tags could easily lead to everyone developing a similar feature with a different data format | 16:16 |
| marun | When we see opaque bags of data becoming the norm | 16:16 |
| marun | and I'm looking at you, ml2 | 16:17 |
| marun | It's pretty clear that interop is starting to fall by the wayside | 16:17 |
| dougwig | kevinbenton: i think port tags just got shot down. | 16:17 |
| mestery | ++ | 16:17 |
| * russellb throws a data bag at dougwig | 16:17 | |
| mestery | "shot down! In a blaze of glory!" | 16:17 |
| marun | When we have a client that can only configure the backend with arbitrary key value pairs | 16:17 |
| marun | we're not doing a good job of interop either | 16:17 |
| marun | I'm not saying we're doomed, but we have been falling behind. | 16:18 |
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| mestery | marun: Right, thus the need to take the reigns back a bit | 16:18 |
| * marun digresses | 16:18 | |
| mestery | And focus on the platform | 16:18 |
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| kevinbenton | not terribly, the very basic l2 wiring doesn't rely on the data bags | 16:18 |
| marun | kevinbenton: right, that's lcd | 16:18 |
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| mestery | "ODL flavored ports" and "data bags", only in a neutron meeting | 16:18 |
| marun | kevinbenton: necessary but not sufficient to run most clouds | 16:19 |
| mestery | Look | 16:19 |
| mestery | part of the problem with neutron is that vendors still want to differentiate | 16:19 |
| mestery | At the expense of their customers | 16:19 |
| marun | 'part'? ;) | 16:19 |
| mestery | Look at all the stuff we've let into the client for example | 16:19 |
| mestery | "vendors gotta vend" | 16:19 |
| russellb | marun: ha | 16:19 |
| marun | It's the cost of doing business, yeah | 16:19 |
| mestery | Our job is to keep growing lcd | 16:19 |
| armax | mestery: amen to that | 16:19 |
| dougwig | *cough*, some of their customers want that differentiation too. | 16:19 |
| kevinbenton | marun: no, monolithic plugins skirt the provider extension and they provide l2. ml2 raises the requirements to expose the encap info | 16:20 |
| mestery | dougwig: Right, thus, "vendors gotta vend" | 16:20 |
| russellb | i think differentiation is possible without opaque data bags | 16:20 |
| russellb | you can have a proper abstraction that not every backend implements | 16:20 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 16:20 |
| russellb | and implementations of abstractions can be superior in other ways too, performance, ease of deployment, whatever | 16:20 |
| marun | russellb: just have to get people to work together to develop those common abstractions | 16:20 |
| amotoki | APi should define both protocol and its behaivor. If we don't define the behavior, it means we don't provide a proper abstraction. it is from operators view. | 16:20 |
| marun | russellb: we can definitely improve in that regard | 16:20 |
| armax | I think we’re dereiling the conversation badly | 16:20 |
| russellb | marun: totally ... and i view that as a core part of what neutron is | 16:20 |
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| armax | not sure whetehr that was intended | 16:20 |
| russellb | or should be | 16:20 |
| kevinbenton | port tags as a service | 16:20 |
| dougwig | i thought we already decided against data bags. i'm nots sure why we're still arguing. | 16:20 |
| russellb | are we violently agreeing? | 16:21 |
| mestery | right | 16:21 |
| marun | yes | 16:21 |
| russellb | i mean, that can be fun sometimes | 16:21 |
| mestery | we're agreeing | 16:21 |
| mestery | :) | 16:21 |
| mestery | data bags are out! | 16:21 |
| marun | dougwig: arguers gonna argue | 16:21 |
| kevinbenton | we came to agreement too soon, we have argument quotas | 16:21 |
| mestery | lol | 16:21 |
| mestery | OK, I'd say that's it for this week. | 16:21 |
| dougwig | then let's talk service chaining. | 16:21 |
| armax | bah | 16:21 |
| armax | I am lost | 16:21 |
| mestery | rofl | 16:21 |
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| kevinbenton | what am i supposed to do with all of this indignant outrage!?!? | 16:21 |
| marun | service _flavor_ chaining (ftfy) | 16:21 |
| dougwig | kevinbenton: go murder a puppy | 16:22 |
| mestery | rofl | 16:22 |
| russellb | woah | 16:22 |
| russellb | that escalated quickly | 16:22 |
| armax | you guys clearly taking me for a ride | 16:22 |
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| kevinbenton | he's from idaho, they do things differently there | 16:22 |
| mestery | armax: You're like a 57 corvette my friend | 16:22 |
| armax | bye bye now | 16:22 |
| mestery | lol | 16:22 |
| marun | heh | 16:22 |
| * mestery reigns everyone back in | 16:22 | |
| mestery | OK | 16:22 |
| mestery | focus. FOCUS! | 16:22 |
| mestery | I'm proposing the meeting is over, unless someone has another RFE they want to look at in 7 minutes? | 16:23 |
| HenryG | A quick one | 16:23 |
| mestery | HenryG: Please | 16:23 |
| HenryG | Bug 1460720 | 16:23 |
| openstack | bug 1460720 in neutron "Move ipv6_gateway L3 config to CLI" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1460720 - Assigned to Abishek Subramanian (absubram) | 16:23 |
| HenryG | The rfe tag was removed | 16:23 |
| mestery | HenryG: I think I wasn't in favor of this even being an RFE | 16:23 |
| mestery | I removed the tag in fact :) | 16:23 |
| HenryG | But it changes the api, just wanted to make sure | 16:23 |
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| mestery | HenryG: Ah, ok! In reality, the RFE wasn't written well (had too much "how"), again, not picking on the submitter, the process is new | 16:24 |
| mestery | HenryG: Bottom line, I made a mistake here and I'll correct it | 16:24 |
| amotoki | agreed that moving something to client side sounds a big change. | 16:24 |
| HenryG | yes, it should say "Add API to configure v6 gateway" | 16:25 |
| HenryG | So add rfe tag back? | 16:26 |
| mestery | OK, thanks amotoki HenryG. | 16:26 |
| mestery | I added it back | 16:26 |
| mestery | refresh | 16:26 |
| amotoki | HenryG: do we still have IPv6 meeting in Liberty? | 16:26 |
| kevinbenton | no | 16:26 |
| HenryG | I can update the title and description | 16:26 |
| kevinbenton | amotoki: sean disbanded it | 16:26 |
| HenryG | We discuss v6 in the L3 meeting if needed | 16:26 |
| amotoki | I think it is worth discussed among IPv6 experts. | 16:26 |
| mestery | #action HenryG to make sure Bug 1460720 is discussed during an upcoming L3 meeting with carl_baldwin and team | 16:27 |
| openstack | bug 1460720 in neutron "Move ipv6_gateway L3 config to CLI" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1460720 - Assigned to Abishek Subramanian (absubram) | 16:27 |
| HenryG | mestery: thanks! | 16:27 |
| * carl_baldwin adds it to the agenda… | 16:27 | |
| * mestery ^5s carl_baldwin. | 16:27 | |
| HenryG | carl_baldwin: thanks! | 16:27 |
| mestery | OK | 16:27 |
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| dougwig | well, this has been a surreal meeting. | 16:27 |
| mestery | That's a wrap! | 16:27 |
| mestery | lol | 16:28 |
| mestery | Thanks folks! | 16:28 |
| russellb | thanks for letting me crash it | 16:28 |
| mestery | russellb: Anytime :) | 16:28 |
| mestery | HenryG too! | 16:28 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 16:28 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 16:28:19 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-06-03-15.30.html | 16:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-06-03-15.30.txt | 16:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-06-03-15.30.log.html | 16:28 |
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| amotoki | going back to the beginning, HenryG and kevinbenton joined the meeting now. we can merge and already merged lts sycn and driver-team meeting :-) | 16:29 |
| mestery | amotoki: Patience, working on it :) | 16:30 |
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| alaski | #startmeeting nova_cells | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 17:00:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alaski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_cells' | 17:00 |
| alaski | Anyone around for the cells meeting? | 17:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 17:00 |
| melwitt | o/ | 17:00 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 17:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 17:00 |
| vineetmenon_ | o/ | 17:00 |
| alaski | cool | 17:01 |
| alaski | #topic Tempest testing | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest testing (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:01 | |
| alaski | I'm going to put melwitt on the spot and defer to her for updates here | 17:01 |
| melwitt | :) | 17:01 |
| melwitt | okay, the cells job seems in the same state as it has been, link here http://goo.gl/b7R8wq | 17:02 |
| *** vineetmenon_ is now known as vineetmenon | 17:02 | |
| melwitt | so it's good there's nothing new happening. I went through the failures from yesterday and they all have to do with tests that delete a server, and I have identified a race where instances can be "undeleted" causing some tests to fail or time out | 17:02 |
| melwitt | I have this patch up for the fix https://review.openstack.org/#/c/176518/ that fixes it sort of indirectly, details in the bug it closes | 17:03 |
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| alaski | nice, I will review that again in a bit | 17:04 |
| bauzas | melwitt: seeing a -W, can I review it ? | 17:04 |
| melwitt | I will remove the -W today, I was running a test all night that runs one of the failure-prone tests in a loop to make sure it doesn't make any races with it worse | 17:04 |
| bauzas | melwitt: ok | 17:04 |
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| melwitt | I finally got it to where it could run all night without failing, so I'll put up a couple of more patches for those races that came out after undelete became impossible | 17:04 |
| bauzas | alaski: which target do you try to reach for having the cells job voting ? | 17:05 |
| melwitt | the UnexpectedTaskStateError is I think unrelated, but is a trace we need to clean up | 17:05 |
| bauzas | alaski: considering another observation period once melwitt's patch lands, I guess ? | 17:05 |
| alaski | melwitt: okay, so there's still a bit more work | 17:05 |
| alaski | bauzas: that's a good question | 17:06 |
| melwitt | there is also this bug that I *think* doesn't fail tests (I'm not sure) but is a clean up https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1448302 | 17:06 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1448302 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "cells: intermittent KeyError when deleting instance metadata" [Low,Confirmed] - Assigned to melanie witt (melwitt) | 17:06 |
| bauzas | alaski: I just wonder about any benefits that we could have | 17:06 |
| alaski | bauzas: I would like to see us close to the overall failure rate for non cells, but I don't know that that is right now | 17:06 |
| bauzas | alaski: agreed, melwitt's patch is important | 17:07 |
| melwitt | it's another race with update/delete server metadata I think but I didn't spend much time on it | 17:07 |
| bauzas | alaski: my only wonder is how we can prevent any tunnel effect | 17:07 |
| alaski | melwitt: would it help to have someone else look into that? | 17:07 |
| bauzas | alaski: ie. fixing all the cells bugs | 17:07 |
| melwitt | alaski: yeah, I think bauzas said he might want to look at it, so feel free | 17:07 |
| bauzas | alaski: melwitt: my brain certainly needs some recreation, so I would be pleased to help | 17:07 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: sorry, tunnel effect? | 17:07 |
| alaski | great | 17:07 |
| bauzas | melwitt: | 17:08 |
| bauzas | cool | 17:08 |
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| bauzas | belmoreira: sorry, something probably french | 17:09 |
| melwitt | so, I guess what I'm thinking is watch the job after the patches land. that I expect to see very few failures after that. but you never know | 17:09 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: the idea of trying to boil the ocean I guess | 17:09 |
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| alaski | realistically I think if we fix the list servers negative test failure and the random test failures from unexpected task state errors I think we'll be where we need to be | 17:09 |
| melwitt | yeah, okay. I'll have all the patches ready today, now that I'm done testing it | 17:10 |
| bauzas | cool | 17:10 |
| melwitt | I think that's all I have about the tempest testing | 17:10 |
| alaski | awesome, great work | 17:10 |
| bauzas | melwitt: so you don't expect https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1448302 to break tests ? | 17:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1448302 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "cells: intermittent KeyError when deleting instance metadata" [Low,Confirmed] - Assigned to melanie witt (melwitt) | 17:10 |
| alaski | thanks for the update | 17:11 |
| bauzas | ok, let's move on | 17:11 |
| melwitt | bauzas: honestly I don't know, I didn't spend enough time to be sure. often it doesn't fail them | 17:11 |
| alaski | #topic Specs | 17:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:11 | |
| alaski | The host mapping spec merged during the summit | 17:12 |
| alaski | and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141486/ is ready for review | 17:12 |
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| alaski | and the followup to that one, though I suspect it will need some work | 17:12 |
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| alaski | I have a few more to write, but have still been organizing a few things after the break last week | 17:13 |
| alaski | but there is some work available if anyone is interested, in implementing the host mapping spec | 17:13 |
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| alaski | and that's all I have on that, so if no comments we can move on | 17:14 |
| belmoreira | alaski: we are looking into a spec to have flavor tables in the api DB | 17:14 |
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| alaski | belmoreira: ahh, excellenbt | 17:14 |
| alaski | bah, excellent | 17:14 |
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| alaski | please ping me when that's up, or add me to the review | 17:15 |
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| bauzas | alaski: that spec seems pretty trivial to be done, probably we should propose some new contributors for it ? | 17:15 |
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| alaski | and add it to the agenda for mention, or I can do that | 17:16 |
| bauzas | alaski: thinking about the "mentoring" stuff you know | 17:16 |
| alaski | bauzas: I would love for somebody to pick up that work | 17:16 |
| bauzas | alaski: we know we have some quickwins that new contributors could help, and that one seems also a good opportunity | 17:16 |
| belmoreira | alaski, bauzas: we can do it | 17:16 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: \o/ | 17:16 |
| vineetmenon | alaski, bauza, belmoreira one thing to be confirmed about that spec.. | 17:16 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: I can help you on the implementation but I don't have the bandwidth for implementing it | 17:17 |
| vineetmenon | we assumed that flavor will reside in cell.. i hope it's okay | 17:17 |
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| bauzas | belmoreira: so you can hassle me on that one | 17:17 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: to be clear, I was talking about cell-host-mapping :) | 17:17 |
| alaski | vineetmenon: what do you mean? I thought we were discussing moving flavor to the api db | 17:18 |
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| alaski | so out of the cell | 17:18 |
| vineetmenon | alaski, ooh ya.. sorry. flavors in api | 17:18 |
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| alaski | vineetmenon: yes, that's okay. I think there's agreement that that's where they should be | 17:19 |
| bauzas | +1 | 17:19 |
| belmoreira | does anyone have the spec number... I can't find it now... | 17:19 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: still happy with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182715/2/specs/liberty/approved/cells-host-mapping.rst,cm ? | 17:19 |
| alaski | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182715/ | 17:19 |
| belmoreira | alaski: thanks | 17:20 |
| bauzas | eh :) | 17:20 |
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| bauzas | belmoreira: so, there is an API model, a migration script to write and a NovaObject to provide | 17:21 |
| alaski | belmoreira: to make sure we're on the same page, you're saying that you can help with that spec? | 17:21 |
| vineetmenon | +1 | 17:21 |
| belmoreira | alaski: yes | 17:21 |
| alaski | great, thanks | 17:21 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: awesome | 17:21 |
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| alaski | anything else on specs? | 17:22 |
| alaski | #topic Open Discussion | 17:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:22 | |
| alaski | anything else to discuss generally? | 17:22 |
| belmoreira | what is blocking https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136490/ ? | 17:23 |
| alaski | belmoreira: I just need to go through it again and refresh it | 17:24 |
| alaski | my goal is that by the next meeting I will have refreshed all specs, and written more or at least have a list of specs I think need to be proposed | 17:25 |
| alaski | anything else? | 17:26 |
| alaski | thanks everyone! | 17:26 |
| alaski | #endmeeting | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:26 | |
| bauzas | thanks | 17:26 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 17:26:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-06-03-17.00.html | 17:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-06-03-17.00.txt | 17:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-06-03-17.00.log.html | 17:26 |
| vineetmenon | caio. | 17:27 |
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| bauzas | belmoreira: since I'm committed to mentor some people on Nova, you can ping me if needed | 17:27 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: thanks | 17:27 |
| vineetmenon | yes.. I'll need that. :D | 17:27 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: vineetmenon is working with me, he also will need some help | 17:28 |
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| alaski | I'm always open to pings as well, though my hours may not line up as well as bauzas | 17:28 |
| bauzas | vineetmenon: what I'm trying to figure out is a list of easy actionable items that new contributors can do | 17:28 |
| bauzas | vineetmenon: I've made the experience that low-hanging-fruit bugs are not the best entry door for Nova | 17:29 |
| vineetmenon | hmm.. we (belmoreira and us) have made a list as well... whcih includes both the items discussed today | 17:29 |
| bauzas | vineetmenon: but that's a general point, not only including the cells effort | 17:29 |
| bauzas | alaski: unless you move to Geneva or Grenoble :) | 17:30 |
| vineetmenon | bauzas: oh. k. I agree on what you said about low-hanging fruit, though | 17:30 |
| alaski | bauzas: heh. I'll need to know the weather and how good the hiking is before considering that | 17:31 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: vinnetmenon and Deerej are working in a collaboration with CERN to help improve cells | 17:31 |
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| bauzas | alaski: one pic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenoble#/media/File:Moucherotte_23_12_11_092_%282%29_final.JPG | 17:31 |
| belmoreira | They are happy to help in any related work | 17:31 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: cool | 17:31 |
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| alaski | bauzas: that is very compelling | 17:32 |
| vineetmenon | bauzas: ack | 17:32 |
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| SridarK | vishwanathj: yamahata: pc_m: Hi | 18:30 |
| vishwanathj | hi SridarK, hi All | 18:30 |
| yamahata | hello | 18:30 |
| xgerman | hi | 18:30 |
| madhu_ak | hello | 18:30 |
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| pc_m | SridarK: hi | 18:30 |
| SridarK | xgerman: madhu_ak: hi | 18:30 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam is out sick - so requested me to run the mtg | 18:31 |
| SridarK | we will do a quick sync up | 18:31 |
| SridarK | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:31 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 18:31:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SridarK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:31 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:31 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:31 |
| SridarK | Lets run thru bugs, specs and other important actions | 18:32 |
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| SridarK | #topic Bugs | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:32 | |
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| SridarK | We discussed last week: | 18:32 |
| SridarK | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1455863 | 18:33 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1455863 in neutron "FWAAS- FW Rule editing puts FW to error state " [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to vikram.choudhary (vikschw) | 18:33 |
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| vishwanathj | I was able to reproduce the issue as well in Kilo | 18:33 |
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| badveli | hello all | 18:33 |
| SridarK | This could be an issue with Agent communication - i will sync with vikram to help | 18:33 |
| slaweq | hello guys | 18:33 |
| SridarK | badveli: hi | 18:33 |
| SridarK | slaweq: hi | 18:33 |
| badveli | hello sridar and all | 18:33 |
| SridarK | the other one: | 18:34 |
| SridarK | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1454974 | 18:34 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1454974 in OpenStack Dashboard (Horizon) "FWAAS- FW rules table is asymmetric." [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Kahou Lei (kahou82) | 18:34 |
| SridarK | dashboard related - vishwanathj: could i request u to take a look and offer any help or suggestions | 18:34 |
| vishwanathj | SridarK, I will take a look after this meeting | 18:34 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: thanks | 18:35 |
| SridarK | other than these there was nothing new or critical | 18:35 |
| SridarK | others pls add if there is something i have missed | 18:35 |
| SridarK | ok so we are good - we can move on to specs | 18:36 |
| SridarK | #topic Traffic direction Spec | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Traffic direction Spec (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:36 | |
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| SridarK | thanks slaweq: & Vikram for working thru this | 18:37 |
| slaweq | I made some changes in specs | 18:37 |
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| slaweq | is it what we were talking about last week SridarK? | 18:37 |
| SridarK | slaweq: yes i am good | 18:37 |
| SridarK | slaweq: u had a few other comments - have u addressed all - if not u can clean up and push another patch | 18:38 |
| slaweq | I was trying to answer for all and address all in new patchset | 18:39 |
| SridarK | slaweq: ok | 18:39 |
| slaweq | but maybe I forgot about something | 18:39 |
| SridarK | slaweq: ok no worries - u can ping the folks with comments and if they are good u should get a +1 and then u can reach out cores | 18:40 |
| SridarK | * to cores | 18:40 |
| slaweq | ok, I will try to ask them to review it again | 18:40 |
| SridarK | slaweq: sounds good | 18:40 |
| SridarK | slaweq: anything else u would like to discuss here | 18:40 |
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| slaweq | no | 18:41 |
| SridarK | slaweq: ok thx for the update | 18:41 |
| SridarK | #topic Service Objects/Group | 18:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Objects/Group (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:41 | |
| slaweq | SridarK: np | 18:41 |
| SridarK | badveli: were u planning to push up a spec | 18:41 |
| SridarK | badveli: i think u can fast track this | 18:41 |
| badveli | i already did | 18:42 |
| SridarK | since it was approved for Kilo | 18:42 |
| SridarK | ok cool - can u pls post the link | 18:42 |
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| badveli | yes | 18:42 |
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| SridarK | badveli: sorry i did not realize | 18:42 |
| badveli | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185765/ | 18:42 |
| badveli | no problem, i followed one of the patch that does | 18:43 |
| badveli | repurpose the juno spec to kilo | 18:43 |
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| badveli | sorry kilo-backlog to liberty | 18:43 |
| SridarK | i think u may need another patch here - but good now we have the coordinates to go look | 18:44 |
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| SridarK | badveli: any issues u want to bring up ? | 18:44 |
| SridarK | or discuss | 18:44 |
| badveli | nothing much but i think this is the way we repurpose a spec as per one of the patch that was given as the guidelines | 18:45 |
| vishwanathj | badveli, I do not see the contents, how are reviewers going to provide their comments? | 18:45 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: yes - hence i requested badveli: that he may need another patch | 18:46 |
| badveli | vishwanthj this is only a repurpose the spec that is alreasy approved as per kilo | 18:46 |
| badveli | the spec needs to be moved from kilo-backlog to liberty | 18:46 |
| badveli | there is already a patch kyle had done to repurpose a spec | 18:47 |
| badveli | we only move the spec | 18:47 |
| vishwanathj | ok, thanks | 18:47 |
| badveli | there is a kilo-backlog that is already there with the spec that needs to be moved | 18:47 |
| SridarK | badveli: ok maybe we can sync up offline more on this to make sure we can see the contents ? | 18:48 |
| badveli | let me give a link that kyle had done to repurpose a spec if i can find | 18:48 |
| badveli | in the meeting | 18:48 |
| badveli | otherwise i will send an offline message | 18:48 |
| SridarK | badveli: sounds good - lets take if offline | 18:48 |
| SridarK | *it | 18:48 |
| SridarK | badveli: anything else u want to bring up ? | 18:49 |
| badveli | nothing | 18:49 |
| SridarK | badveli: ok thanks | 18:49 |
| badveli | from my side thanks | 18:49 |
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| SridarK | #topic Logging Spec | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Logging Spec (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:49 | |
| SridarK | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132133/ | 18:49 |
| SridarK | i don't see yushiro here today | 18:50 |
| SridarK | this is getting reviews, i had some discussion with yushiro at the summit as well | 18:50 |
| SridarK | we can pick this up next time or on gerrit | 18:50 |
| SridarK | #topic SG - FWaaS alignment | 18:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SG - FWaaS alignment (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:51 | |
| SridarK | From the summit - the other important thing is that we should help on the effort to look for alignment with SG. | 18:51 |
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| SridarK | We should all run thru the use cases and help with the discussion in any way. | 18:51 |
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| xgerman | +1 | 18:51 |
| SridarK | there was an email from xgerman: | 18:51 |
| SridarK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fwaas_use_cases | 18:52 |
| xgerman | yep | 18:52 |
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| SridarK | would request all to take a look and lets get some use cases and help in any way | 18:52 |
| xgerman | I am still trying to invite some operators and end users to give us use cases | 18:52 |
| SridarK | xgerman: great and pls add anything more u would like to on this topic | 18:52 |
| xgerman | people went on vacation right after the summit :-( | 18:52 |
| SridarK | xgerman: i suspect most of this month is going to be like that | 18:53 |
| xgerman | yeah, once we have the use cases collected we can rethink the API | 18:53 |
| SridarK | xgerman: yes absolutely and meanwhile if there are things to look lets also discuss here | 18:53 |
| xgerman | yep | 18:53 |
| SridarK | we can keep this is a living topic on the mtg | 18:54 |
| mickeys | I have a hard time figuring out what to think about the traffic direction spec without any resolution to the FWaaS alignment discussion | 18:54 |
| xgerman | sounds good | 18:54 |
| SridarK | xgerman: thx | 18:54 |
| SridarK | mickeys: hi | 18:54 |
| mickeys | hi | 18:54 |
| xgerman | mickeys agreed | 18:54 |
| SridarK | mickeys: yes this is a bit of tightrope with any spec | 18:54 |
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| SridarK | mickeys: but the direction from Kyle has been to get specs going and continue the discussion | 18:55 |
| SridarK | perhaps we may have a v2 API - yes these things are still TBD | 18:55 |
| mickeys | Just noting that some iteration may be required, depending on the progress of FWaaS alignment | 18:55 |
| xgerman | +1 | 18:55 |
| SridarK | but if we have something going - it may be a question of refactor | 18:56 |
| SridarK | rather than start the work fresh | 18:56 |
| SridarK | but i agree as well | 18:56 |
| xgerman | it really depends on the bandwidth and where we want to concentrate our efforts | 18:56 |
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| SridarK | yes we will record that for all contributors - that there will be some refactor - we should be open to that | 18:57 |
| mickeys | If we are able to get any consensus on FWaaS alignment, IBM would like to pitch in | 18:57 |
| SridarK | mickeys: +1 | 18:57 |
| xgerman | +1 | 18:57 |
| SridarK | that will be good - banix also mentioned this | 18:57 |
| jwarendt_ | +1 | 18:57 |
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| vishwanathj | in my opinion, until there is a concrete plan spelled out for the fwaas alignment, we should continue to make progress and not wait | 18:58 |
| vishwanathj | that's just my opinion | 18:58 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: and we are open to the fact there will be reiteration/refactor | 18:58 |
| mickeys | Is the association of ports with firewalls going ahead, or is that tied into the FWaaS alignment discussion? | 18:59 |
| xgerman | well, as long as we keep an open mind when going into those features | 18:59 |
| vishwanathj | yes, we are open to re-iteration and refactor | 18:59 |
| SridarK | but this may be a case by case basis | 18:59 |
| SridarK | mickeys: the port association will be really close to SG alignment | 18:59 |
| mickeys | OK, good to know | 18:59 |
| SridarK | mickeys: unless u are thinking only router ports | 19:00 |
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| mickeys | I would like router ports or VM ports, so I agree to making it part of the FWaaS alignment discussion | 19:00 |
| SridarK | mickeys: in that case will be good to get some thoughts down on the etherpad and get some consensus | 19:00 |
| SridarK | mickeys: exactly | 19:00 |
| mickeys | I mentioned router ports, VM ports, and groups of each in the etherpad last night | 19:01 |
| SridarK | mickeys: great | 19:01 |
| SridarK | xgerman: anything else u would like to bring up ? | 19:01 |
| xgerman | don’t see them join here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fwaas_use_cases | 19:01 |
| xgerman | mickeys? | 19:01 |
| xgerman | on here | 19:02 |
| mickeys | I am OK for now. Waiting for the real FWaaS alignment discussion ... | 19:02 |
| xgerman | k | 19:02 |
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| SridarK | ok sounds good | 19:03 |
| SridarK | #topic Open Discussion | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 19:03 | |
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| vishwanathj | SridarK, who is driving the FWaaS alignment discussion | 19:03 |
| vishwanathj | ? | 19:03 |
| SridarK | xgerman: has kickstarted it and i think it is open for all of us to join in | 19:03 |
| xgerman | yes | 19:04 |
| SridarK | and help out | 19:04 |
| vishwanathj | good to know, thanks | 19:04 |
| xgerman | it’s a team effort | 19:04 |
| badveli | fine sridark | 19:04 |
| vishwanathj | SridarK, I was wondering if there are any thoughts of making this meeting bi-weekly ...... | 19:05 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: yes that makes sense | 19:05 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: there is probab a lot of PTO going around as well now | 19:05 |
| vishwanathj | because its summer time and lot of people are going to be out on vacation with kids and stuff | 19:05 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: and we can get some more traction on the alignment discussions too | 19:06 |
| SridarK | sounds like a good idea to me | 19:06 |
| SridarK | if no one has any objections we can do that - we can always change the frequency back to every week as needed | 19:06 |
| xgerman | +1 | 19:07 |
| jwarendt_ | +1 | 19:07 |
| SridarK | ok great lets do that then | 19:07 |
| badveli | fine | 19:08 |
| SridarK | folks can always be reached on irc or email if any discussions are needed | 19:08 |
| SridarK | anything else anyone wanted to bring up ? | 19:08 |
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| vishwanathj | xgerman, How do I get involved with the FWaaS alignment discussion? Thanks | 19:08 |
| xgerman | I started the ether pad to collect use cases | 19:09 |
| xgerman | and we will use this meeting to discuss progress | 19:09 |
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| SridarK | xgerman: +1 | 19:09 |
| jwarendt_ | Use cases very basic right now; did mickeys cases make the etherpad? | 19:09 |
| xgerman | +1 | 19:09 |
| vishwanathj | ok, thanks.....is there a planned timeline and milestones? I ask that to figure out how this is going to progress | 19:10 |
| madhu_ak | +1 | 19:10 |
| jwarendt_ | asap? | 19:10 |
| mickeys | jawarendt: I cannot say what I put in the etherpad goes beyond basic either | 19:10 |
| xgerman | well, we are still working out the specifics but we are hoping to have everything done in Liberty | 19:12 |
| SridarK | ok as a first step lets get some traction on the ether pad, but as xgerman: mentioned earlier we need more operator inputs here as well | 19:12 |
| xgerman | +1 | 19:13 |
| jwarendt_ | +1 | 19:13 |
| madhu_ak | +1 | 19:13 |
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| SridarK | ok great may be we close out on this "aligned moment" on this mtg. :-) | 19:14 |
| SridarK | ok folks all have a great rest of the week and we will meet in 2 weeks then. | 19:14 |
| xgerman | bye | 19:14 |
| jwarendt_ | Thanks everyone! | 19:15 |
| badveli | thanks and bye | 19:15 |
| madhu_ak | bye folks | 19:15 |
| slaweq | bye | 19:15 |
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| SridarK | i will update the wiki etc for frequency | 19:15 |
| SridarK | bye all | 19:15 |
| SridarK | #endmeeting | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:15 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 19:15:32 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2015/networking_fwaas.2015-06-03-18.31.html | 19:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2015/networking_fwaas.2015-06-03-18.31.txt | 19:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2015/networking_fwaas.2015-06-03-18.31.log.html | 19:15 |
| vishwanathj | bye | 19:15 |
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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 20:00:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 20:01 |
| woodm19791 | Good afternoon! | 20:01 |
| TravT | o/ | 20:01 |
| matt-borland | o/ | 20:01 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 20:01 |
| r1chardj0n3s | o/ | 20:01 |
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| neillc | o/ | 20:01 |
| bpokorny | Hi all | 20:01 |
| mrunge | hello there | 20:01 |
| doug-fish | greetings | 20:01 |
| clu_ | hi! | 20:01 |
| ducttape_ | yo | 20:01 |
| pauloewerton | hi there | 20:01 |
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| asahlin | hello | 20:02 |
| rhagarty | howdy | 20:02 |
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| david-lyle | hello everyone | 20:03 |
| hurgleburgler1 | Hello | 20:03 |
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| tqtran | 0/ | 20:03 |
| david-lyle | as the horizon turns episode 2000 | 20:03 |
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| lhcheng | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon | 20:03 |
| asahlin | lol, what season? | 20:03 |
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| david-lyle | so the agenda for today can be found on the link lhcheng provided | 20:04 |
| david-lyle | thanks lhcheng | 20:04 |
| lhcheng | wow, we have a lot in agenda today | 20:04 |
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| david-lyle | crazy, right? | 20:04 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ok, who added all that stuff to the agenda? :) | 20:04 |
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| lhcheng | lol | 20:05 |
| TravT | what's wrong with people? | 20:05 |
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| david-lyle | I have an extra topic that I'm going to start with | 20:05 |
| david-lyle | just cause | 20:05 |
| woodm19791 | #drunkwithpower | 20:05 |
| r1chardj0n3s | Surprise Topic! | 20:05 |
| neillc | Nobody expects the surprise topic | 20:06 |
| david-lyle | OpenStack is moving from a shake the magic 8-ball approach to release planning to reporting what we did | 20:06 |
| tqtran | he's holding out the anticipation | 20:06 |
| hurgleburgler1 | darn, forgot to add my topic!! | 20:06 |
| david-lyle | hurgleburgler1: go ahead | 20:07 |
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| david-lyle | on the wiki | 20:07 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: what does that mean? | 20:07 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (oh good, it wasn't just me) | 20:07 |
| mrunge | we'll probably have fewer blueprints completed | 20:07 |
| doug-fish | so ... no planning? just reporting results? | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | so we used to slate all these blueprints for milestones and hope by some crazy chance it might actually land there | 20:07 |
| doug-fish | lol - I thought that was the old process! | 20:08 |
| doug-fish | oh wait | 20:08 |
| * doug-fish stops laughing and reads | 20:08 | |
| david-lyle | the success rate was quite low, not surprisingly | 20:08 |
| david-lyle | At the summit we actually spent some time lining up what the priorities were | 20:08 |
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| david-lyle | they were collated here #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-horizon-liberty-priorities | 20:09 |
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| david-lyle | we also talked about having a page that showed review priority | 20:09 |
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| david-lyle | My suggestion would be just to use the etherpad to track the release | 20:09 |
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| david-lyle | rather than on a per milestone basis | 20:10 |
| r1chardj0n3s | pile of poo here we come | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | link the bps and bugs on that etherpad directly | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | I've found two things over time | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | 1) reviewers don't actually look at the milestone list to prioritize blueprint reviews | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | 2) moving around random things in launchpad is not highly effective. | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | Thoughts? | 20:11 |
| doug-fish | agreed | 20:11 |
| TravT | Well, I liked using etherpad for launch instance last release | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I think it's worth a shot, perhaps we just need to remind folks occasionally | 20:12 |
| doug-fish | The etherpad is probably clearer and simpler - and no reason to think it will be less effective | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | also, could people with testing patches please update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/june_2015_testing_push :) | 20:12 |
| matt-borland | sure thing | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (that's linked from the priorities page) | 20:12 |
| tqtran | yeah, im fine with either approach, but having etherpad helps a bit. my only concern is when it starts to grow and becomes a tangle of mess | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | at least - unlike blueprints - you can have an actual conversation in an etherpad | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | I had the same issue with launchpad | 20:13 |
| mrunge | I would expect to become a mess more sooner than later | 20:13 |
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| mrunge | there is no sync back to etherpad | 20:13 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ... or are we still expecting to use blueprints? | 20:13 |
| mrunge | (once patch is reviewed) | 20:13 |
| r1chardj0n3s | mrunge: good point | 20:13 |
| woodm19791 | mrunge's point is the biggest | 20:13 |
| r1chardj0n3s | it's very manual | 20:13 |
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| tqtran | i think a hybrid approach might make sense, have your bp in launchpad, and link it in etherpad | 20:13 |
| mrunge | tqtran, that's double effort then | 20:14 |
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| bpokorny | Anyone can modify the etherpad, so we'd have to watch out for who is changing/deleting things. | 20:14 |
| tqtran | this way, the details and stuff is out of the way and reviewers can just focus on line items they need to knock down | 20:14 |
| * david-lyle pulls back the curtain a bit | 20:14 | |
| david-lyle | I update the bp status manually in launchpad too | 20:14 |
| david-lyle | it's not automated | 20:14 |
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| TravT | Well, one thing i like about the current etherpad linked here is that we can see themes. | 20:14 |
| mrunge | aand, easiest way to sneak own patches to top prio ;-) | 20:14 |
| bpokorny | Yes! | 20:15 |
| TravT | true, no governance mrunge. | 20:15 |
| TravT | etherpad does have a timeslider... | 20:15 |
| TravT | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-horizon-liberty-priorities/timeslider | 20:15 |
| TravT | but, no way to enforce changes | 20:16 |
| mrunge | TravT, true, so revisions are recorded. | 20:16 |
| doug-fish | I like the etherpad idea - maybe we revisit if we find it's being abused/vandalized? | 20:16 |
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| david-lyle | if you all like launchpad, we can stick with that, I just waste a lot of time on managing those lists | 20:16 |
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| TravT | although, it doesn't seem to work right (at least playing with it). | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | and get very little out of it | 20:16 |
| TravT | wait, now it is working. | 20:16 |
| r1chardj0n3s | woah, woah, who alleged I like launchpad? | 20:17 |
| david-lyle | TravT: you have to save revisions as well | 20:17 |
| david-lyle | I would also hazard to guess 75% of what's in the etherpad has neither a bp or bug in launchpad right now | 20:17 |
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| * david-lyle points finger of guilt around the room | 20:18 | |
| r1chardj0n3s | there should be more bugs linked, yes. I will do one now | 20:18 |
| lhcheng | Doesn't hurt to try it, I think we should just go for it. | 20:18 |
| lhcheng | It is better than what we do now. | 20:18 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, that'd be another reason not to use an etherpad | 20:18 |
| * ducttape_ points a different finger back at david-lyle ;) | 20:18 | |
| tqtran | yeah, lets try it and see how well it works out | 20:18 |
| lhcheng | We can revisit it after a few months if it working or not. | 20:18 |
| * TravT feeling guilty | 20:18 | |
| david-lyle | the thing is we have an idea what we want to accomplish, it's there in the etherpad, it's more about fleshing out the details | 20:19 |
| TravT | so, process wise, last release, we'd just use the cross out thing when something got done. | 20:19 |
| mrunge | I'd say: let's try and revisit next week | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | TravT: +1 | 20:19 |
| mrunge | TravT, but you were under 10 people | 20:19 |
| TravT | yep, agreed | 20:19 |
| mrunge | and you met each day on that pad | 20:20 |
| TravT | i am a little worried having all blueprints linked here will get messy. | 20:20 |
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| david-lyle | it's all messy | 20:20 |
| TravT | maybe we should copy this etherpad to somewhere for reference. | 20:20 |
| asahlin | +1 | 20:20 |
| mrunge | we have a little over 240 blueprints currently | 20:20 |
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| TravT | since it is more thematic at the moment without all the details. | 20:21 |
| r1chardj0n3s | wow | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | mrunge: and how many of those are legit? | 20:21 |
| mrunge | not to speak about bugs or patchsets | 20:21 |
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| mrunge | david-lyle, right. maybe 50? | 20:21 |
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| woodm19791 | We should clean that out then. | 20:21 |
| hurgleburgler | Legit as in Accepted to work on? | 20:21 |
| woodm19791 | Switching to etherpad won't help that. :-) | 20:21 |
| mrunge | hurgleburgler, in the past, a not accepted blueprint was not a blocker for review | 20:22 |
| mrunge | we might think again about that | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | lets take the week to consider and move on to the scheduled items | 20:23 |
| mrunge | we could simply drop unaccepted blueprints after... 1 month? | 20:23 |
| david-lyle | honestly I find none of the options overly appealing | 20:23 |
| TravT | if you are going to do that, there probably should be a weekly blueprint review meeting among drivers or something like that | 20:23 |
| hurgleburgler | not a bad idea, but more overhead for the bp reviewers | 20:24 |
| mrunge | +1 for discussing blueprints | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | +1 for more overhead | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | oh wait | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | I think it makes sense though | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | let's take this offline for now | 20:25 |
| david-lyle | #topic Angular translation, continue using tweaked Django or switch to Babel? (tqtran/r1chardj0n3s) | 20:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Angular translation, continue using tweaked Django or switch to Babel? (tqtran/r1chardj0n3s) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:25 | |
| hurgleburgler | I would like it, cause I honestly never know who I need to bribe for a bp | 20:25 |
| david-lyle | hurgleburgler: when in doubt, all | 20:25 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ooh, translation cage match | 20:25 |
| david-lyle | and in this corner | 20:25 |
| TravT | we all take bribes around here. | 20:25 |
| r1chardj0n3s | oh man, I gotta get in on this bribery action | 20:26 |
| * TravT digresses - let tqtran have the floor with r1chardj0n3s | 20:26 | |
| tqtran | ok next topic | 20:27 |
| tqtran | so basically, we have settled on 2 different ways to translate angular static html | 20:27 |
| r1chardj0n3s | tqtran: got the bp link? I've lost it because launchpad | 20:27 |
| tqtran | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/angular-translate-makemessages | 20:27 |
| tqtran | its quite a long read, but it outlines my thought process | 20:28 |
| tqtran | and list alternatives with pros/cons | 20:28 |
| tqtran | right now, i think its agreed that we will go with approach 3 since its something angular-gettext supports | 20:28 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (for markup) | 20:29 |
| tqtran | yes for markup and future compatibility | 20:29 |
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| tqtran | the part where we need a discussion around is the translation extraction | 20:29 |
| tqtran | which is listed as options in the bp | 20:29 |
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| tqtran | richard is advocating for option 2 and using babel for extraction | 20:30 |
| tqtran | his reasons are as follows: | 20:30 |
| tqtran | 1) use angular-gettext now, not later | 20:30 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (except that option 2 I'm advocating is less sucky than the BP implies ;) | 20:30 |
| tqtran | 2) use babel to extract messages from django templates and angular templates, exrtacting into the current messages catalog | 20:30 |
| tqtran | 3) use django's translation system as we do today over the top of that messages catalog | 20:30 |
| tqtran | 4) need to use babeldjango plugin | 20:30 |
| tqtran | and today, i found out that we already have babel in the requirements and are using it to some degree | 20:31 |
| r1chardj0n3s | oh! | 20:31 |
| tqtran | thanks to doug-fish for pointing that out | 20:31 |
| doug-fish | sure, np | 20:31 |
| tqtran | i'm advocating for option 3 | 20:31 |
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| tqtran | 1) use angular-gettext as well | 20:32 |
| tqtran | 2) extend a django makemessages command | 20:32 |
| tqtran | 3) create a temp file that we dump all static translatable html strings into | 20:33 |
| tqtran | 4) let django do its work | 20:33 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (with a hack that leaves a horrid legacy for future horizon devs) | 20:33 |
| tqtran | 5) delete file | 20:33 |
| tqtran | its not a hack lol | 20:33 |
| r1chardj0n3s | :) | 20:33 |
| tqtran | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187321/ | 20:33 |
| tqtran | here is the patch for the single translation version, with interpolation and plural added in later patches | 20:33 |
| r1chardj0n3s | it messes with the workings of makemessage in a way that is potentially fragile and not clear to future devs | 20:33 |
| tqtran | it doesn't mess with makemessages, it adds a temporary file that contains all extracted strings so that django can do its thing | 20:34 |
| r1chardj0n3s | that's my reasoning to use a tool that's designed to be extended and already handles django templates | 20:34 |
| r1chardj0n3s | it replaces makemessages command by overridding the built in class | 20:34 |
| r1chardj0n3s | monkeypatching, yeah :) | 20:34 |
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| tqtran | so for me, i dont understand babel enough to know how the plugin would fit into horizon | 20:35 |
| tqtran | if you can put up a patch and show how it would all fit together, i will be more than happy to create a plugin for it | 20:36 |
| * TravT gets some popcorn | 20:36 | |
| tqtran | thoughts? | 20:36 |
| david-lyle | I'd like to see an investigation for using babel, the temp file seems "interesting" | 20:36 |
| neillc | I think a look at babel before writing our own tool would be a good idea | 20:37 |
| r1chardj0n3s | babel plugins are just a python file that knows how to extract messages from text | 20:37 |
| tqtran | yeah, its a work around since we don't have access to override the makemessages class in django | 20:37 |
| neillc | I don't understand either option well enough yet to offer a definitive opinion | 20:37 |
| TravT | i'd agree at this point that seeing an alternate patch with babel would help to clarify. | 20:37 |
| r1chardj0n3s | eg here's the existing django one http://babel.edgewall.org/browser/contrib/django/babeldjango/extract.py | 20:37 |
| david-lyle | but if that goes poorly we have a fallback | 20:37 |
| r1chardj0n3s | which uses django's built-in parser to pull messages from its templates | 20:37 |
| r1chardj0n3s | all we need to do is use tqtran's regex he's already written for his tempfile approach and put it in an extract_angular function and register it with babel | 20:38 |
| tqtran | but how would we use that in horizon today? | 20:38 |
| r1chardj0n3s | and then instead of invoking manage.py makemessages we invoke babel | 20:38 |
| r1chardj0n3s | that's it, afaict | 20:38 |
| r1chardj0n3s | the message catalog produced is the same as today | 20:39 |
| tqtran | so we invoke bable for the angular stuff and leave the js/py/templates to django? | 20:39 |
| r1chardj0n3s | so all the downstream is the same as today | 20:39 |
| r1chardj0n3s | tqtran: no, babel extracts the django stuff as well using its plugin. one command | 20:39 |
| tqtran | so we need 2 plugins, a django one and an angular one | 20:39 |
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| TravT | in either case, would the HTML markup look similar (attempt to be forward compatible with angular gettext)? | 20:40 |
| david-lyle | ok, r1chardj0n3s can you work on a prototype for that? or someone else? we have a lot to get through today | 20:40 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yes, the django one that already exists | 20:40 |
| tqtran | TravT: yes it would be | 20:40 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: I can work on it, but I won't get to it until later next week | 20:40 |
| tqtran | ok cool, lets wait on the prototype, we can work on it together if you like r1chardj0n3s | 20:40 |
| r1chardj0n3s | tqtran: ok, thanks | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | that would be ideal | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | thanks! | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | #topic Horizon Keystone to Keystone Federation - current status and future directions (pauloewerton) | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon Keystone to Keystone Federation - current status and future directions (pauloewerton) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:41 | |
| stevemar | david-lyle, of course you bring this up as i'm getting ready to leave | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | as I planned it | 20:41 |
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| david-lyle | should we punt a week on this topic stevemar | 20:42 |
| david-lyle | ? | 20:42 |
| doug-fish | (maybe he left?) | 20:43 |
| david-lyle | ok, reshuffling deck, slipping K2K to the bottom | 20:43 |
| pauloewerton | so I know that this work is probably blocked because of that keystoneclient auth plugin dependency | 20:43 |
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| doug-fish | it's true - it looks like they have some nice, not-yet-implemented ideas https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172155/ | 20:44 |
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| stevemar | i trust doug-fish to know everything | 20:44 |
| doug-fish | stevemar: let me know how that works out for you! | 20:44 |
| stevemar | doug-fish, it's been working well | 20:44 |
| doug-fish | "Oh yeah, the keystone guys will do that" | 20:45 |
| david-lyle | I think this work can't make much progress until we have something concrete to build on, I know doug-fish has a patch up | 20:45 |
| david-lyle | but we can't do much without the dependencies merged | 20:45 |
| pauloewerton | I see | 20:45 |
| doug-fish | true. Here's the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159910/ | 20:45 |
| stevemar | we're trying to figure out our auth plugins story on the keystone side | 20:45 |
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| david-lyle | We can discuss in the horizon room as well | 20:46 |
| stevemar | we're trying to put all auth plugins into a new repo (keystoneauth) | 20:46 |
| stevemar | and have that ready for L1 | 20:46 |
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| pauloewerton | doug-fish, david-lyle ok, thanks | 20:46 |
| david-lyle | I think there is visibility, we just need to hash out the details | 20:46 |
| pauloewerton | just a question | 20:46 |
| stevemar | (the k2k plugin should go into that repo) | 20:46 |
| pauloewerton | once this work in django-openstack-auth is finished | 20:47 |
| pauloewerton | would we have something like a service provider selector in horizon nav-bar, for instance? | 20:47 |
| david-lyle | I think this is a discussion that should happen on the blueprint not in the team meeting | 20:48 |
| doug-fish | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/k2k-federation | 20:48 |
| pauloewerton | david-lyle, doug-fish, sure. | 20:48 |
| david-lyle | I really need to get to the next two topics and time is dwindling | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | pauloewerton: we'll work it out in the bp | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | #topic A Quick searchlight update (TravT) | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "A Quick searchlight update (TravT) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:49 | |
| TravT | so, at the summit, we showed project Searchlight in a fishbowl for both Glance and Horizon. since then, have been doing the work to get it set up as a new project separated from Glance. | 20:49 |
| TravT | today we put up for a vote to be included in the official Big Tent project list #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188014/ | 20:49 |
| TravT | the wiki is here: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Searchlight | 20:49 |
| TravT | horizon is intended to be a (the?) primary consumer of the project initially, so wanted to give an update and also set some context for discussion on the mid-cycle meet-up. | 20:50 |
| david-lyle | #topic Midcycle meetup (david-lyle, TravT) | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle meetup (david-lyle, TravT) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:50 | |
| david-lyle | so a mid-cycle meetup was strongly requested at the summit | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | we've had several offers for hosts, thank you all | 20:51 |
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| david-lyle | One potential set of dates is July 8-10 in Boston, MA. This would coincide with the glance and searchlight mid-cycles as well | 20:52 |
| TravT | a number of Glance cores are also going to be working on searchlight, so co-locating with them helps get approval. | 20:52 |
| david-lyle | as there is an interest overlap that could potentially very productive | 20:52 |
| david-lyle | I know of at least one person these dates don't work for | 20:52 |
| hurgleburgler | Ah doh! That's during comiccon | 20:53 |
| woodm19791 | :-) | 20:53 |
| hurgleburgler | sorry, my priority will always be batman | 20:53 |
| r1chardj0n3s | :) | 20:53 |
| david-lyle | So there are a couple of other options | 20:53 |
| david-lyle | July 20-22 or July 21-23 in Fort Collins, CO | 20:54 |
| hurgleburgler | if you did it in san diego, that'd be an interesting mid-cycle meet up :-D | 20:54 |
| hurgleburgler | the whole city becomes mardi gras for nerds | 20:54 |
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| david-lyle | or another undetermined data in San Jose, CA or maybe Portland, OR | 20:54 |
| david-lyle | thoughts on people's availability? | 20:55 |
| TravT | we've (including nikhil_k - Glance PTL) put together an initial spreadsheet to help bring out ideas and for voting. | 20:55 |
| TravT | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w0eI6SPCA2IrOyHiEYC2uDO3fbYGzahZRUQSva0UD3Y/edit#gid=0 | 20:55 |
| TravT | room idea are on top, but if you scroll down | 20:55 |
| TravT | you can fill in your availability in the "Voting" section | 20:56 |
| tqtran | cool will fill that in | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | so if you can fill that in, we can close quickly | 20:57 |
| david-lyle | if we went with the early dates, people will need to start booking travel in the next few days | 20:57 |
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| david-lyle | so please fill it in | 20:57 |
| * ducttape_ enjoys watching the names fill in. mesmorizing | 20:58 | |
| david-lyle | magic | 20:58 |
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| david-lyle | last two topics real quick | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | #topic Adding events information to instance audit tab https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/instance-events (peristeri) | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding events information to instance audit tab https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/instance-events (peristeri) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:58 | |
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| david-lyle | peristeri: wasn't able to attend | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | but he want to point out the bp | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | there's a demo video as well | 20:58 |
| TravT | i just watched it | 20:59 |
| TravT | pretty interesting. | 20:59 |
| david-lyle | I think it makes perfect sense, may need some tweaking, but overall I have no problem with the concept | 20:59 |
| TravT | and some discussion should happen in context of searchlight as well | 20:59 |
| david-lyle | TravT: sure | 20:59 |
| TravT | i don't like that it is new functionality in legacy code, but that is a detail. | 20:59 |
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| david-lyle | and finally | 21:00 |
| tqtran | lol yeah, that means more work for us when we do decide to convert | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | #topic Themeing Additions (hurgleburgler) | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Themeing Additions (hurgleburgler) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 21:00 | |
| david-lyle | tqtran: WHEN | 21:00 |
| hurgleburgler | yay! | 21:00 |
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| tqtran | when the fat lady sings | 21:00 |
| hurgleburgler | I've been doing some work using the new themeing functionality and hit a few bugs as well as some things that can be improved quite a bit | 21:01 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I think she's sung, it's time ;) | 21:01 |
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| hurgleburgler | if I can get some eyes on the following | 21:01 |
| hurgleburgler | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-theme-templates | 21:01 |
| hurgleburgler | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188162/ | 21:01 |
| hurgleburgler | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/bootstrap-theme-preview | 21:01 |
| hurgleburgler | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187818/ | 21:01 |
| hurgleburgler | https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1457188 | 21:01 |
| hurgleburgler | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187797/ | 21:01 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1457188 in OpenStack Dashboard (Horizon) "Bootstrap variables overrides should only be default values" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Diana Whitten (hurgleburgler) | 21:01 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | woah, link! | 21:01 |
| tqtran | dang calm down on the links | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | these are patches to make the theming we based of hurgleburgler earlier work, far more useful | 21:02 |
| mrunge | there's no need to click them all... | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | please check it out | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | s/it/them | 21:02 |
| hurgleburgler | Thanks! | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | ok, we're over. followup can be in the horizon room | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | Thanks everyone! | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 21:02:46 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-06-03-20.00.html | 21:02 |
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| mrunge | thanks! | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-06-03-20.00.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-06-03-20.00.log.html | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | and who's filling in my availability d*mn it | 21:03 |
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