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| krotscheck | #startmeeting StoryBoard | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 24 16:00:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:00 |
| *** yolanda has joined #openstack-meeting-3 | 16:00 | |
| krotscheck | Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Agenda | 16:00 |
| krotscheck | Although to be honest, that agenda is starting to get a bit out of hand. I’m going to rework the wiki a tad. | 16:01 |
| ttx | o/ | 16:01 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck Reorganize agenda wiki. | 16:01 |
| krotscheck | #topic Actions from last week: Migration | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last week: Migration (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:01 | |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so migration bugs were fixed, infra was migrated, email was sent, and things are more or less wrapped on that topic. | 16:02 |
| ttx | woohoo | 16:02 |
| krotscheck | Indeed :) | 16:02 |
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| krotscheck | We’ve also got… two confirmed downstream users of storyboard now. | 16:03 |
| *** shwetaap has joined #openstack-meeting-3 | 16:03 | |
| krotscheck | So no more breaking downstream. | 16:03 |
| NikitaKonovalov | o/ | 16:03 |
| NikitaKonovalov | finally back from summit and vacation | 16:03 |
| jeblair | yay! | 16:03 |
| krotscheck | Woo vacation! | 16:04 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: welcome back! | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | #topic Urgent Items | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:04 | |
| krotscheck | Anything urgent? | 16:04 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | nothing from me | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | I have a not-really-urgent-but-omg-annoying thing. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | The webclient is super chatty - as in it makes a lot of unecessary API calls. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | I did some work last week to fix that. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | Or, at least, mitigate it. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | ANd those reviews are up | 16:05 |
| yolanda | the caching changes? i'm still not very confident about that, but it can help | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | Ok, let’s talk about that in discussion, if you have concerns let’s raise ‘em. | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | Any other urgent items? | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | Anything from our users? (jeblair that’s you) | 16:07 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i haven't been back enough from my own vacation to be on top of that feedback. i will endeavor to be so asap. :) | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: You got it :) | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | We got a bunch of comments in the channel on wed/thur, and those have spawned a few stories. | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | But nothing super crazy | 16:08 |
| jeblair | awesome, just what we wande | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | More I want features, When will this happen, etc kind of questions. | 16:08 |
| jeblair | wanted | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | Anyway | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion: Core Reviewers | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: Core Reviewers (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:08 | |
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| fungi | it's been working great so far | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | So, this topic was raised by yolanda last week. She’s been doing a lot of code reviews, and has been asking a lot of really good questions, and she was curious as to what it takes to be a storyboard core. | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | And I didn’t have an answer! | 16:09 |
| yolanda | yes, i've been really interested in the project, i love working on it and i really want to be core of it | 16:10 |
| krotscheck | So what I’d like to do is figure out what we as a team want a storyboard core to be. | 16:10 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: one good first order approximation is this: when you see a +1 or -1 from a person, do you start to treat it as a +/-2 in your mind | 16:10 |
| ttx | then you bend the spoon | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: That’s a good one. | 16:11 |
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| ttx | then there is no spoon | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: What about seeing a +2 and treating it like a +1? ;) | 16:11 |
| jeblair | are you confident that person understands the code well enough to identify problematic code before it merges, understands the road map well enough to take it in the direction the project should go, and engaged enough that the investment will be worthwhile | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | Mind if I copy that verbatim into the wiki? | 16:12 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: not at all | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | Coool | 16:13 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: and about the +2 as a +1, that's a concern too. most people with +2 should know when they are reviewing something out of their area of expertise | 16:13 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: and should generally downgrade their own votes accordingly | 16:13 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Well, we’re in a weird position on that one, since there’s a lot of +2’s that we inherit from infra. | 16:13 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: so actually, understanding that that person knows their own limits is a good thing to look for in a potential core reviewer as well | 16:13 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: if you feel like we are overstepping bounds, i'm happy to talk about it | 16:13 |
| ttx | also we don't have that many cores, so if I started to say +1 when I'm not sure, we would stall :) | 16:14 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: If it becomes a thing I’ll let you know :) | 16:14 |
| krotscheck | Yeah, that too. | 16:14 |
| fungi | yeah, i've so far tried to only +2 storyboard changes i feel like i understand the ramifications of | 16:14 |
| ttx | that said once we have a solid team, I'm happy to un-core myself and become a very opinionated stakeholder | 16:14 |
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| ttx | since I can't seem to get enough time to become angular-fluent | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Well, I think at that point we’ll be able to ACL prioritization on storyboard, meaning you can go make changes there :) | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so what I’ve got so far: | 16:16 |
| krotscheck | - Demonstration that the individual understands the codebase well enough to identify problems. | 16:16 |
| krotscheck | - Demonstration that the individual understands and contributes to the roadmap. | 16:16 |
| krotscheck | - Demonstration of engagement | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | - Demonstration that the person knows their limits. | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | These all feel quite fluffy to me. | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | a little subjective, but I do like them. | 16:17 |
| jedimike | it is subjective though | 16:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | sounds fair | 16:18 |
| yolanda | yes, these are subjective criteria but if it's a shared opinion it can become more valid | 16:18 |
| NikitaKonovalov | sounds fair for me as well | 16:18 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i have semi-objective ways of evaluating those that i'm happy to share (but this may not be the best time) | 16:18 |
| jeblair | but yeah, the subjectiveness is a feature :) | 16:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | btw there is a nova core team page - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/CoreTeam with some formal workds | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | Bah. Why can’t humans be binary. | 16:19 |
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| jedimike | yolanda, that's why cores are voted in :) | 16:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | krotscheck, ternary can | 16:19 |
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| krotscheck | SergeyLukjanov: Thanks for that :) | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | I don’t see any disagreement on those four, and it seems like a good starting point. | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | So de/elevation of cores then can be a consensus thing, since everything in openstack is consensus. | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | Consensus among cores? | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | Storyboard cores + infra cores? | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | Storyboard cores + infra PTL? | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | All the cores in openstack? | 16:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | IMO infra cores + sb cores works ok | 16:22 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: as StoryBoard is part of an Infra programe Infra cores should vote | 16:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | for me, for example, I'm not able to contribute something to code directly, but I'm able to verify and review at list server (and then python client) side | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | I disagree on that. I haven’t seen any infra cores actively contribute to the codebase, though they’ve been useful to get reviews when people go on vacation. | 16:23 |
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| krotscheck | To me, infra core feels more like an advisory panel of experts than people who meet the four storyboard core criteria. | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Opinions? | 16:25 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: what are you disagreeing with? | 16:25 |
| yolanda | well, i think the most people having an opinion, the better should be. Allowing everyone to vote cannot be bad | 16:25 |
| yolanda | everyone that knows the project and have a relevant opinion | 16:25 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: I disagree with SergeyLukjanov and NikitaKonovalov’s desire to make elevation of cores a SB Core + All Infra Core consensus. | 16:25 |
| krotscheck | I personally prefer SB Core + PTL. | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | Also, because I have vested interest in having Mirantis dedicate more of NikitaKonovalov’s time to the project :) | 16:27 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: if an Infra core member does not have an opinion, they should not be forced to vote | 16:27 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i think infra-core has quite a bit to contribute here. just as people contribute differently to different kinds of reviews and changes, there's an opportunity to involve infra-core, but not in a way that oversteps bounds. | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | So it sounds to me like it’s more of a straight vote than consensus? | 16:28 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i'd prefer the consensus process for core to be inclusive, but i suspect that people in infra-core who are not equipped to evaluate a member will not obstruct the process | 16:28 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: here's the general process: | 16:28 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: nomination to list; invitation to +1 or -1, stays open for a week. people chime in with opinions, after a week if no significant opposition is observed, it happens | 16:29 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: so it's not really a formal vote | 16:29 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: it's more of, who's the group from which you are willing to consider objections | 16:30 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yup, and -1 is veto | 16:30 |
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| jeblair | that pretty much never happens by the time we actually get to the proposal stage | 16:30 |
| jeblair | everyone wants more cores, and we try not to propose people who aren't ready (handling a rejection like that could be awkward) | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so how does that work for de-elevation? | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | It all sounds good to me :) | 16:32 |
| yolanda | cool, sounds fair to me | 16:32 |
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| jedimike | +1 from me | 16:32 |
| jeblair | usually the ptl makes the decision and announces a de-elevation | 16:32 |
| jeblair | generally that only happens because someone has stopped reviewing code | 16:33 |
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| jeblair | and it's usually apparent to everyone that it's time | 16:33 |
| jeblair | but nonetheless, we don't ask people to publicly "+1" removing someone from core | 16:33 |
| jeblair | because again, that could be awkward | 16:33 |
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| jeblair | i think there may be some morke text about this on the wiki somewhere | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | Righto. | 16:35 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so let’s stay with Infra + SB cores for now and see how that works out for us. | 16:35 |
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| jeblair | oh yeah, it's in that nova core team page | 16:35 |
| jeblair | 2nd par of 'adding or removing members' | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: As far as I’m concerned, you have my +1, but you’ll have to go talk to others :) | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | next topic? | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | #agreed Core elevation to be “consensus” of Infra + Storyboard Cores. | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | #topic Story Types. | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Story Types. (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:37 | |
| yolanda | how is the proposal to the mailing list sent? who needs to send that? the interested in being core? | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | oops | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion: Core Reviewres | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: Core Reviewres (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:37 | |
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| yolanda | sorry, typed too slow | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | I’d say, pick whatever communication medium you prefer (IRC, Email, etc) | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | And at the very least get existing SB Cores on board. | 16:38 |
| jeblair | yolanda: actually... | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | And then talk to jeblair | 16:38 |
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| jeblair | yolanda: by convention the proposal usually comes from the ptl; i think in this case we could say it's okay for a proposal to come from a storyboard core though, yeah? | 16:39 |
| jeblair | but i don't think we should ask people who want to be core to publicly propose themselves. i think it's better for the core team to make the invitation | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | I agree | 16:40 |
| jeblair | but people interested in being core should definitely talk to those on the core team to help get them ready | 16:40 |
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| krotscheck | That too. | 16:40 |
| jeblair | yolanda: so you're definitely doing the right thing here :) | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | Personally, what I love about yolanda’s reviews is that she’s EXTREMELY cautions about things. | 16:41 |
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| ttx | indeed! | 16:41 |
| krotscheck | She’s more or less the opposite of me. | 16:41 |
| krotscheck | :D | 16:41 |
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| yolanda | heh, that can be good and bad :) | 16:42 |
| * krotscheck has also been noticing wendar doing a lot of reviews for us. | 16:42 | |
| jeblair | yay! | 16:42 |
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| krotscheck | yolanda: So did that answer your question? | 16:42 |
| yolanda | yes, sure | 16:42 |
| krotscheck | Awesome. | 16:43 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion: Story Types | 16:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: Story Types (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:43 | |
| * krotscheck has not reviewed that spec. | 16:43 | |
| * krotscheck goes to sit in a corner. | 16:43 | |
| ttx | I won't write another spec until that one is reviewed :) | 16:44 |
| * ttx can't only handle one spec at a time :) | 16:44 | |
| ttx | Also nothing like a good excuse for not doing it | 16:44 |
| * krotscheck thinks that ttx’s reaction is the right one. | 16:44 | |
| krotscheck | Can we get everyone to reviewing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129267/ this week? | 16:45 |
| jedimike | what's the link to the spec? I can't see it linked from the wiki | 16:45 |
| krotscheck | jedimike: ^^ | 16:45 |
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| jedimike | aha :) | 16:45 |
| * krotscheck is updating the wiki | 16:45 | |
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| jeblair | i think this looks like a good one for the broader infra audience to see... | 16:46 |
| jeblair | i can highlight it in the infra meeting if you like | 16:46 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: That’d be awesome. | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129267/ | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | (Others can add their own actions) | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | Ok, moving on: | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion: Documentation | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: Documentation (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:47 | |
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| krotscheck | persia: You here? | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | Hrm. Ok, so it’s been 3 weeks with noshows from him. I’ll ping him directly. | 16:48 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Product Evangelism | 16:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Product Evangelism (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:49 | |
| krotscheck | Ditto on rainya | 16:49 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck contact rainya and persia about the items they agreed to at the summit. | 16:49 |
| krotscheck | #topic MVP 1.2 | 16:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP 1.2 (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:49 | |
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| NikitaKonovalov | I've started the python client task | 16:50 |
| krotscheck | Yay! | 16:50 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: You saw the user token issue api that I built, yes? | 16:50 |
| NikitaKonovalov | As soon as the repo and all infra around is ready | 16:50 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: I've seen that | 16:50 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and it will be very usefull | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | Is that an acceptable way of having the python client authenticate, or do you want something more sophisticated? | 16:51 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I've created client on pypi and CR for adding new repo is near to be finished | 16:51 |
| * krotscheck is thinking of allowing OAuth password flow in addition to launchpad. | 16:51 | |
| krotscheck | #topic MVP 1.2: Client Library | 16:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP 1.2: Client Library (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:52 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | I had an idea of a client making a request to a public endpoint, which will then result in a question to a user "Allow this client to authenticate or not" | 16:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | probably use the same approach of approving tokens in Web UI like launchpad? | 16:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it's the same as NikitaKonovalov said | 16:52 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I think I'll describe the full flow in a spec | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | Good idea. | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | That feels more like traditional OAuth flow, good thinking. | 16:52 |
| NikitaKonovalov | but for now I'll make it work with a provided token | 16:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | krotscheck, +1 | 16:53 |
| NikitaKonovalov | both as a python module and CLI | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | Cool. | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | Does openstack have a standard for how to structure the CLI arguments? | 16:53 |
| jeblair | ++spec. fwiw, that approach is great for real users and really hard to use with non-interactive accounts | 16:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, provided token for non-interactive? | 16:54 |
| jeblair | er, are we sure we want to conflate the cli and python api client? | 16:54 |
| NikitaKonovalov | btw, oslo apiclient appeared to be pretty handy | 16:54 |
| jeblair | i think that has worked out very poorly for openstack | 16:54 |
| NikitaKonovalov | jeblair: openstack clients usually do | 16:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, I think for us it'll not be an issue mix them in one repo | 16:54 |
| jeblair | which is why currently the python-*clients are heading in the direction of being internal api only, the "sdk" project is heading toward being a python api client, and the 'openstackclient' project is aiming for a command line client | 16:55 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I think CLI is low priority for SB | 16:55 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so there is time to figure out | 16:56 |
| jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: agreed; i think the api client is much more important | 16:56 |
| jeblair | (at the moment) | 16:56 |
| ttx | most cli users would be apiclient users anyway | 16:56 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: [going back a bit] yeah, a way to have a provided token for non-interactive is better (something we can put in hiera for puppet, etc) | 16:57 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, yup | 16:57 |
| krotscheck | I think we’re all on the same page. | 16:57 |
| krotscheck | And we’re getting low on time. | 16:57 |
| krotscheck | Most of my work has been on fixing annoying UI things. | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | Like inline editing of tasks. | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | So not really roadmap things, so I don’t have anything to contribute here. | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | Well, that’s a lie. The reason I fixed that is because I was trying to get the 1.2 things into storyboard and the UI made my eyes blee.d | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | Anyway: Anything else? | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | jedimike? yolanda? | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | You’ve got less than a minute :) | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | (sorry) | 17:00 |
| jedimike | did we come to a solution with results paging? | 17:00 |
| jedimike | (sorry for the highly controversial thread ;) | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | jedimike: Ugh. No. I don’t think we have the time to discuss that in the meeting though, bounce over to channel? | 17:00 |
| jedimike | cool | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Alright, thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 24 17:00:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-11-24-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-11-24-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-11-24-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| Piet | jaromir, are you running the UX meeting? | 17:03 |
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| Piet | #startmeeting UX | 17:09 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 24 17:09:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Piet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:09 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:09 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ux' | 17:09 |
| Piet | If no one objects, I'll go ahead and get the UX meeting started | 17:09 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 17:11 |
| Piet | Has everyone had an opportunity to join Invision to help review mocks? If not, feel free to reach-out to Ju, Liz, Jaromir or myself to get an invitation. | 17:11 |
| david-lyle | seen a lot of reviews, so I think most people are in | 17:14 |
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| Piet | I want to reinforce that this tool is not just for designers, but for anyone doing working on Horizon including development, design or documentation. You can also post your own projects if you want them reviewed. | 17:16 |
| Piet | Also, wanted the group to know that we are running a usability study on the launch instance workflow. | 17:18 |
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| Piet | This will be a remote/unmoderated study using usertesting.com so you will not be able to watch in real time. However, the videos from the study will be made available to the community. | 17:19 |
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| Piet | Let's take a roll call and see if anyone is listening. | 17:22 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 17:22 |
| david-lyle | \o | 17:22 |
| david-lyle | \o/ | 17:23 |
| david-lyle | seems a bit sparse | 17:23 |
| david-lyle | let's call this one and send an email to openstack-dev before the next one. I think we broke cadence along the way and this has fallen off people's radar | 17:24 |
| david-lyle | also update the agenda on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/UX | 17:24 |
| david-lyle | otherwise the meeting seems like it's been abandoned | 17:25 |
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| krotscheck | ohai | 17:25 |
| krotscheck | Oops, too late. | 17:26 |
| david-lyle | krotscheck: Piet hasn't actually closed the meeting yet | 17:26 |
| david-lyle | but there are now 3 of us | 17:26 |
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| david-lyle | :-) | 17:26 |
| krotscheck | Well, three of us where one of us doesn’t really work on Horizon ;) | 17:27 |
| Piet | Hi Michael | 17:27 |
| krotscheck | Although I hear good things about y’all moving to angular :D | 17:27 |
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| david-lyle | UX is more than Horizon, even if all it's attention seems to go there | 17:27 |
| krotscheck | Point | 17:27 |
| david-lyle | krotscheck: yeah, we're starting to make some progress | 17:27 |
| Piet | One other thing - I have a pre-test for a card sort activity that needs ten participants. It would be awesome if some of you folks could complete it. | 17:28 |
| krotscheck | Sure! Is this an online thing? | 17:28 |
| Piet | yeah | 17:28 |
| Piet | https://i2471lxv.optimalworkshop.com/optimalsort/002h4457-0 | 17:28 |
| Piet | I'm getting a lot of drop-offs and wondering why | 17:29 |
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| * krotscheck goes to do that. | 17:30 | |
| david-lyle | do you want grammar feedback | 17:31 |
| david-lyle | ? | 17:31 |
| Piet | Yeah, grammar feedback is good | 17:31 |
| david-lyle | question two, "you company" | 17:32 |
| Piet | Also, want to make sure the definitions for the panels are accurate. | 17:32 |
| david-lyle | question four "the the description" | 17:32 |
| Piet | k | 17:32 |
| david-lyle | plus tense and other things on 4 | 17:32 |
| Piet | k | 17:33 |
| Piet | Kind of relief its a pre-study | 17:33 |
| david-lyle | last question end with period on 1st page | 17:34 |
| Piet | Note that I can't make changes to the pre-study because it's active, but will update for final one | 17:35 |
| krotscheck | Memo to self. Never accidentally hit the back button | 17:35 |
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| Piet | Does that clear the results? | 17:37 |
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| krotscheck | Yep. | 17:38 |
| krotscheck | Well, the work that I did is gone. | 17:38 |
| krotscheck | Also, I kindof feel like some of these have tasks for Ops people and task for users. | 17:38 |
| Piet | Wow - that's fun! (in a sarcastic tone) | 17:38 |
| krotscheck | Like, a distinction between cloud ops and customer ops. | 17:38 |
| david-lyle | where are the vpn, firewall, sahara, and trove items? | 17:39 |
| Piet | What do you mean? | 17:39 |
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| david-lyle | hypervisors, baremetal | 17:39 |
| david-lyle | baremetal, would be nice because we're about to add that in | 17:39 |
| david-lyle | where should it go | 17:39 |
| Piet | David - we can add them. Are they intended for end users or admins? | 17:39 |
| david-lyle | it becomes a contest | 17:40 |
| Piet | k | 17:40 |
| david-lyle | all are end user except hypervisors | 17:40 |
| Piet | Michael - any comments? | 17:40 |
| david-lyle | can I add new panels in groups | 17:40 |
| david-lyle | also missing object store | 17:41 |
| krotscheck | None directly. | 17:41 |
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| david-lyle | or containers | 17:41 |
| Piet | You can also leave comments on the Google doc | 17:41 |
| Piet | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lk-ohyNRWEpApEVy-jht36V3jMhqMX8gxjU5VBXIOnI/edit?usp=sharing | 17:41 |
| krotscheck | I like how the columns and rows are unlabeled. | 17:41 |
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| Piet | Michael - In the Card Sort? | 17:44 |
| david-lyle | also missing the "Projects" panel that currently lives in the Identity dashboard | 17:44 |
| david-lyle | Piet, so for Sahara "Data Processing" there are 9 panels in that panel group currently | 17:46 |
| Piet | David, wow | 17:46 |
| david-lyle | in the Database panel group, there are 2 panels | 17:46 |
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| david-lyle | not sure you need people to sort the 9 panels | 17:47 |
| Piet | David, Let me schedule some time with you to review with Tiff | 17:47 |
| david-lyle | maybe just the high level Data Processing group | 17:47 |
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| david-lyle | Database is more interesting because it's Instances and Backups for Databases | 17:48 |
| Piet | David/Michael, glad we go the card sort in front of you before rolling-out to a huge group of people | 17:48 |
| david-lyle | it's plausible that if you split storage into a group that Database Backups would be there | 17:48 |
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| david-lyle | not sure though | 17:49 |
| david-lyle | I guess that's why we have a study | 17:49 |
| Piet | Yup | 17:51 |
| Piet | I'm going to end the meeting if no one objects | 17:51 |
| Piet | Any final things to discuss? | 17:51 |
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| Piet | ok - have an awesome couple of weeks until we meet again! | 17:52 |
| Piet | #endmeeting | 17:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 24 17:53:09 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ux/2014/ux.2014-11-24-17.09.html | 17:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ux/2014/ux.2014-11-24-17.09.txt | 17:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ux/2014/ux.2014-11-24-17.09.log.html | 17:53 |
| david-lyle | Thanks Piet | 17:54 |
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| flaper87 | flwang1: vkmc kragniz zhiyan around ? | 20:59 |
| vkmc | sure thing | 20:59 |
| flwang1 | o/ | 20:59 |
| vkmc | o/ | 20:59 |
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| flaper87 | #startmeeting Zaqar | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 24 21:00:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Zaqar)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar' | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | #topic Roll Call | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Zaqar)" | 21:00 | |
| vkmc | o/ | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 21:00 |
| flwang1 | o/ | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | I guess kgriffs will show up later | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | lets move on | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | #topic Finalize specs review | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finalize specs review (Meeting topic: Zaqar)" | 21:01 | |
| flaper87 | #topic Previous meeting actions | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Previous meeting actions (Meeting topic: Zaqar)" | 21:01 | |
| flaper87 | actually | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | #undo | 21:01 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x184a050> | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | #undo | 21:01 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x184a1d0> | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | #topic Previous meeting actions | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Previous meeting actions (Meeting topic: Zaqar)" | 21:01 | |
| flaper87 | :P | 21:01 |
| * flaper87 is perfectionist | 21:01 | |
| flaper87 | vkmc to add cpallares as a secondary contact | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: ^ | 21:01 |
| vkmc | done https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134567/ | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | #info cpallares has been added as a second contact to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134567/ | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | vkmc to evaluate serialization protocols for the websocket transport | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: ^ | 21:02 |
| vkmc | done https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-serialization-protocol-ws | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | #info Serialization protocols evaluated here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-serialization-protocol-ws | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: AFAIR, msgpack won | 21:03 |
| vkmc | #info spoiler alert: msgpack wins | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | right? | 21:03 |
| vkmc | right | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | #info msgpack will be used as the serialization protocol | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | flaper87 to clarify how notifications will be pushed to clients | 21:03 |
| * flaper87 can't remember | 21:04 | |
| flaper87 | AFAIK, that's done | 21:04 |
| vkmc | ask flaper87 | 21:04 |
| * flaper87 asks flwang1 | 21:04 | |
| flaper87 | erm | 21:04 |
| * flaper87 asks flaper87 | 21:04 | |
| flwang1 | lol | 21:04 |
| flaper87 | ah yeah, that was the workers thingy | 21:04 |
| flaper87 | it's done | 21:04 |
| flwang1 | taskflow, IIRC? | 21:04 |
| flaper87 | #info Workers specification added to the spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129192/ | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: yeah | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | ok, we did everything | 21:05 |
| vkmc | \o/ | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | #topic Finalize specs review | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finalize specs review (Meeting topic: Zaqar)" | 21:05 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129192/ | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: that's notifications | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | AFAIK, you already started working on it | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: could you take a final look? | 21:05 |
| flwang1 | flaper87: yep | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: already +1'd it | 21:05 |
| vkmc | flaper87, of course | 21:06 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs hasn't gotten back to it but we need to move it forward | 21:06 |
| flaper87 | we can edit it later if really needed | 21:06 |
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| flwang1 | flaper87: agree | 21:07 |
| vkmc | +1 flaper87 | 21:07 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: awesome | 21:07 |
| flwang1 | flaper87: for some details, we can improve them during code review | 21:07 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: I don't see your +1 | 21:07 |
| flwang1 | for the overall design, it looks good for me | 21:07 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: agreed | 21:08 |
| vkmc | flaper87, I'll read it carefully after the meeting | 21:08 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: ah lol | 21:08 |
| flaper87 | now I understood your +1 thing | 21:08 |
| flaper87 | hahaha, it was about my last message | 21:08 |
| * flaper87 slaps himself | 21:08 | |
| flaper87 | ok, moving on | 21:08 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134567/ | 21:08 |
| vkmc | yeah :) haha | 21:08 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: that's persistent transports | 21:08 |
| vkmc | I see that | 21:08 |
| vkmc | ok so... kgriffs made a good point there | 21:09 |
| flaper87 | I'm 80% against socketio, socketjs and adabahnanadshdasawhatever | 21:09 |
| vkmc | we didn't clarify what we are going to do in case there is no support for websockets | 21:09 |
| flaper87 | The reasons are expressed there | 21:09 |
| vkmc | great, its good to count on your experience to make this decision | 21:09 |
| flaper87 | There were some good reasons to block websocket when it first came out | 21:10 |
| flaper87 | I'd like to understand what are nowadays motivations to do so | 21:10 |
| vkmc | so.. the other options are tornado and ws4p | 21:10 |
| vkmc | y | 21:10 |
| flaper87 | ws4p is just websocket | 21:10 |
| flaper87 | it doesn't have support for long-polling | 21:10 |
| vkmc | beyond that, there are browsers that doesn't support it | 21:10 |
| flaper87 | very old browsers you mean, right? | 21:10 |
| flaper87 | http://caniuse.com/websockets | 21:11 |
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| flaper87 | even IE has support for it | 21:11 |
| vkmc | here is a list | 21:11 |
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| vkmc | http://tavendo.com/blog/post/websocket-why-what-can-i-use-it/ | 21:11 |
| vkmc | of where it works | 21:11 |
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| flwang1 | what's IE? | 21:12 |
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| vkmc | better... this is the source http://caniuse.com/#search=websockets | 21:12 |
| vkmc | yeah please flaper87, clear that up | 21:12 |
| vkmc | what does IE stands for? | 21:12 |
| flaper87 | IE = Internet Explorer | 21:12 |
| flwang1 | i'm kidding | 21:12 |
| vkmc | still no clue | 21:12 |
| flaper87 | LOL | 21:12 |
| flaper87 | :D | 21:12 |
| vkmc | :D | 21:12 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: discussing persistent transports spec | 21:12 |
| flaper87 | What I'd like to understand is why would an OPs guy block websocket nowadays | 21:13 |
| flaper87 | there were some good reasons in the past | 21:13 |
| flaper87 | but I don't think those are valid anymore | 21:13 |
| flaper87 | I'm curious to know if there are new good reasons | 21:13 |
| flaper87 | the good thing aboud long-polling is that it plays well with LB | 21:14 |
| flaper87 | but again, the whole fallback thing doesn't work as it says it does | 21:14 |
| kgriffs | some thoughts on blocking websocket | 21:14 |
| kgriffs | first, is some firewalls and stuff are configured to kill http connections after a certain amount of time | 21:15 |
| kragniz | o/ | 21:15 |
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| * kragniz lurks some | 21:15 | |
| kgriffs | there is a real cost to persistent connections on networking gear, although that cost is going down, still significant | 21:15 |
| kgriffs | so, i have that first-hand from talking with ops people | 21:16 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: ok, that's a good reason | 21:16 |
| kgriffs | the second one is more speculation | 21:16 |
| kgriffs | some people may be paranoid from a security standpoint and they will kill any traffic over port 80 or 443 that doesn't look like HTTP | 21:16 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: right but deplying Zaqar + websocket is a manual process | 21:17 |
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| flaper87 | which means OPs know they'll need it to be enabled in the firewall | 21:17 |
| kgriffs | yes, but that is only one side | 21:18 |
| flaper87 | and they'll have to support long-living connections | 21:18 |
| kgriffs | what I mean is that you can have one org or company talking to another org or company and you have to have both parties agree to let this traffic through | 21:19 |
| flaper87 | yup | 21:19 |
| kgriffs | nowdays I expect it to work most of the time, but sometimes it won't. | 21:19 |
| flaper87 | yeah, that's true | 21:19 |
| vkmc | that makes sense, but if they are deploying a messaging service like Zaqar I guess that is something they have to consider | 21:20 |
| flwang1 | kgriffs: +1 | 21:20 |
| flaper87 | I don't have counter-arguments to that | 21:20 |
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| flaper87 | I honestly see the long-poling transport as a separate one | 21:20 |
| flaper87 | once we have the websocket one setup, it should be fairly simple | 21:20 |
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| * kgriffs is catching up on the comments on the spec | 21:21 | |
| flaper87 | I'm concerned that falling back to long-polling if websocket is not enabled won't be as simple as it sounds from a pub-sub stand point | 21:21 |
| flaper87 | We'll have to implement the cross-api thingy before finilizing the transport itself | 21:21 |
| flaper87 | is this something we can revisit later? | 21:21 |
| kgriffs | can we just fall back to short polling for now, and look at adding long-polling support later? | 21:22 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: I mentioned before you joined that I'm 80% against fallback strategies for this specific thing but I'm happy to change my mind if we see it can be done/maintained easily | 21:22 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: oic | 21:22 |
| flaper87 | with that I'm not saying that if I don't change my mind we won't do it | 21:22 |
| flaper87 | it's just my personal opinion | 21:22 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +1 for falling back to short-polling but that's handled by the client | 21:22 |
| flaper87 | What I'm not happy with is having 1 transport that supports 2 different protocols | 21:23 |
| vkmc | we have to make sure we deliver the simplest, fully functional, version of this transport soon | 21:23 |
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| kgriffs | flaper87: oic | 21:23 |
| kgriffs | ala socket.io or SockJS | 21:23 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: right | 21:23 |
| flaper87 | If the client fallsback to something else, I'm ok with that | 21:23 |
| kgriffs | it's a question of where you want the fallback abstraction to live | 21:23 |
| vkmc | of course, if not having a decent fallback is not acceptable then we have to plan things based on that | 21:24 |
| flaper87 | but again, it's a personal opinion a bit based on previous experiences that might not even be valid anymore | 21:24 |
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| kgriffs | I looked at socket.io | 21:24 |
| kgriffs | I agree it isn't a great fit for us | 21:24 |
| kgriffs | SockJS is more like what we might want | 21:24 |
| kgriffs | but, as I said, it doesn't have a non-JS client library, so you have to just use raw websocket and then do your own fallback (to the REST API?) anyway, so it doesn't seem like you gain much from using the library | 21:25 |
| vkmc | sockjs doesn't have the abstraction level socketio has | 21:25 |
| vkmc | socketio is more like autobahn and wamp | 21:25 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: right, at that point I'd rather use w4py which supports asyncio | 21:26 |
| flaper87 | and it also has a websocket client for python | 21:26 |
| flaper87 | ok, we need to agree on something there | 21:27 |
| vkmc | w4py +1 | 21:27 |
| flaper87 | we can revisit it later if needed | 21:27 |
| flaper87 | We need to start on the cross-api thingy anyway | 21:27 |
| flaper87 | so, we still have some time for last minute reviews | 21:27 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: flwang1 ? | 21:28 |
| flwang1 | i'm ok | 21:28 |
| vkmc | https://ws4py.readthedocs.org/en/latest/sources/performance/ | 21:28 |
| flaper87 | we can contribute back to the library | 21:29 |
| flaper87 | and help making it faster, I guess | 21:29 |
| vkmc | k | 21:29 |
| flwang1 | flaper87: oh, really? are we doing to do that? | 21:29 |
| flaper87 | https://github.com/methane/wsaccel | 21:29 |
| kgriffs | if we want to use our persistent transport outside the browser, I think it makes sense to use raw websocket and have the client fallback to short-polling the REST API | 21:29 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +1 | 21:30 |
| flaper87 | ok, I think we can approve that spec them. Would you guys mind casting your votes there? | 21:30 |
| kgriffs | we should be able to abstract that away in the client, so apps don't care, other than that things go faster when websockets is available | 21:30 |
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| flaper87 | I'll approve after the meeting | 21:30 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: agreed | 21:31 |
| vkmc | k | 21:31 |
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| kgriffs | I just know someone is going to ask about why we didn't use those other things, so be ready with a good reply. :p | 21:31 |
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| flwang1 | kgriffs: lol | 21:31 |
| flaper87 | Btw, I'm assuming the specs those specs depend on are ok and I'll also approve them | 21:31 |
| flaper87 | I'm trying to take the most out of the time we have | 21:32 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yeah, I'm sure they will | 21:32 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: would you mind sumirizing this convo in a wiki page? | 21:32 |
| flaper87 | Websocket FAQ ? | 21:32 |
| flaper87 | or in the FAQ itself | 21:32 |
| vkmc | flaper87, of course | 21:32 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: awesome | 21:32 |
| vkmc | I'll start that ASAP so we can start with the implementation as well | 21:32 |
| flaper87 | #action vkmc to write a small FAQ of why we chose raw websocket over socketio sockjs | 21:32 |
| flaper87 | thanks a lot, girl! | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | Moving on | 21:33 |
| vkmc | np | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125986/ | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | That's FIFO | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: I addressed your last comment | 21:33 |
| kgriffs | question | 21:33 |
| kgriffs | actually. nevermind | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | LOL | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | :D | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | don't be shy | 21:33 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: I also need your review on that spec | 21:34 |
| flaper87 | is there something you guys want to discuss about that spec? | 21:34 |
| flwang1 | flaper87: done | 21:34 |
| flwang1 | flaper87: I think most of the stuff about that have been touched on summit design session | 21:34 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: right | 21:35 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: so, looking at the work items... | 21:35 |
| kgriffs | First comment is just to keep in mind that capabilities may include whether or not claiming and deleting are supported (for Symantec's use case)? | 21:36 |
| kgriffs | meaning, there are capabilities that have to do with guarantees and also that have to do with supported features | 21:36 |
| kgriffs | s/features/operations | 21:37 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: right | 21:37 |
| flaper87 | do we want to separate them ? | 21:37 |
| flaper87 | This is a draft of the storage capabilities thing: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135637/ | 21:37 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: no, just that capabilities should be flexible enough to describe all kinds of things | 21:38 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135637/ | 21:38 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yeah, although they are implementation specific | 21:38 |
| flaper87 | as in, the capabilities of the redis driver are hard-coded | 21:38 |
| flaper87 | I haven't worked on a way to make that dynamic yet | 21:38 |
| kgriffs | ok, so that was my next question | 21:39 |
| kgriffs | the last work item on the spec is: "Add a way to pass capabilities down to the driver" | 21:39 |
| flaper87 | but as the first step, I thought that's fair | 21:39 |
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| kgriffs | are you saying that some drivers can be configurable as far as capabilities? | 21:40 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: I think that's not worded correctly. What I mean there is that we should pass flavor's capabilities down to the driver level so that the right implementation can be loaded | 21:40 |
| flaper87 | I'll clarify | 21:40 |
| flaper87 | For example | 21:40 |
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| flaper87 | The capabilities of a flavor will be the interesection of the capabilities of all the nodes in the pool | 21:41 |
| flaper87 | Which means, we need to load the storage based on that | 21:41 |
| flaper87 | Load can mean multiple things here | 21:41 |
| flaper87 | Either importing the right implementation or just enabling/disabling things | 21:42 |
| flaper87 | this really depends on the driver | 21:42 |
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| kgriffs | let me play devil's advocate and ask why allow a flavor to be made up of heterogeneous nodes in the first place? | 21:43 |
| flaper87 | does that make sense? | 21:43 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: that's a good question | 21:43 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: the first thing that comes to my mind is that it'd be easier to allow that than forbidding it. | 21:43 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: it gives more flexibility to OPs | 21:43 |
| flaper87 | and we'd have to pass the flavor down to the storage anyway | 21:44 |
| flaper87 | also | 21:44 |
| flaper87 | Say I have a storage that doesn't have support for FIFO and one that does | 21:45 |
| flaper87 | but I don't care about FIFO | 21:45 |
| flaper87 | forbidding me to put them together wouldn't be nice | 21:45 |
| flaper87 | But I'm just making this up without any empirical research | 21:45 |
| kgriffs | hmmm | 21:45 |
| kgriffs | ok, so suppose I have those two drivers | 21:46 |
| kgriffs | and I want to use both in the same flavor | 21:46 |
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| kgriffs | idk why I would do that in the first place, because they would have different characteristics - one might be slower, for example | 21:47 |
| flaper87 | right | 21:47 |
| flaper87 | so, lets do this | 21:47 |
| kgriffs | now my users have different emergent behavior depending on which node they end up for a given flavor | 21:47 |
| flaper87 | I would hate us to overengineer things so, lets just forbid it for now and enable it in the future | 21:47 |
| flaper87 | if people think it makes sense | 21:47 |
| flaper87 | it'll be easier to enable it in the future than removing it | 21:48 |
| flaper87 | does that sound good? | 21:48 |
| flaper87 | I'll update the spec if it does | 21:48 |
| kgriffs | yes, just a few more thoughts real quick | 21:48 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: sure | 21:48 |
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| kgriffs | if we enforce that a flavor is made up of nodes that basically use the same drivers with the same configuration/capabilities settings | 21:49 |
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| kgriffs | then you don't have to try and figure out the least-common denominator of capabilities | 21:50 |
| flaper87 | right, that wouldn't be needed anymore | 21:50 |
| kgriffs | i just think it will actually be easier for ops to reason about the system by forcing homogenous pools | 21:50 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +2, I'm now convinced of that | 21:50 |
| kgriffs | like you say, we can allow it later if people ask for it | 21:50 |
| flaper87 | +2 | 21:50 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: so what is the workflow? | 21:51 |
| kgriffs | Susan the operator creates a flavor | 21:51 |
| flaper87 | Susan creates a pool | 21:51 |
| flaper87 | Then Susan creates a flavor | 21:51 |
| flaper87 | Then the user Pippo creates a queue that uses that flavor | 21:51 |
| flaper87 | Pippo posts messages | 21:51 |
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| flaper87 | Internally, when the queue creation happens, a new queue is registered in the catalog | 21:52 |
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| * flaper87 reminds everyone we've 8 mins left | 21:52 | |
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| kgriffs | ok, real quick... | 21:53 |
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| flwang1 | kgriffs: btw, could you please revisit the notification spec at your most convenience? | 21:53 |
| kgriffs | the thing then to figure out is how to ensure that when adding new nodes to a pool, they all have the same capabilities | 21:53 |
| flwang1 | kgriffs: it's a good question | 21:54 |
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| kgriffs | if that can be ensured | 21:54 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: that can be ensured when the node is added by introspecting the capabilities | 21:54 |
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| kgriffs | then it shouldn't be hard to express those capabilities in the flavor | 21:54 |
| flaper87 | the driver is loaded based on the configs and node connection uri | 21:54 |
| kgriffs | so the flavor just reports up the capabilities introspected from the lower layer | 21:54 |
| flaper87 | it shouldn't be hard to enforce this thing | 21:55 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: right, that's the idea | 21:55 |
| kgriffs | kk | 21:55 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: is it ok if I update the spec with your latest comments and approve it? | 21:55 |
| flaper87 | or do you have other things you'd like to discuss? | 21:55 |
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| kgriffs | flwang1: I've asked for some feedback from some other Rackspace folks, hopefully people will comment. I will take another look as well if I can steal some time. | 21:55 |
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| kgriffs | flaper87: that's all I had to discuss | 21:56 |
| flwang1 | kgriffs: cool, cheers | 21:56 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: FWIW, I think I'll go ahead and approve the notifications spec, we can update it if needed | 21:56 |
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| flaper87 | I think we all agree on the basis | 21:56 |
| flwang1 | i'm ok if kgriffs is ok :) | 21:56 |
| flaper87 | that's enough for flwang1 to start working on it | 21:56 |
| flwang1 | flaper87: it's true :) | 21:56 |
| flaper87 | For the more specific things, we can revisit them | 21:57 |
| flaper87 | or even change some things during the review | 21:57 |
| flaper87 | ok, 3 mins left | 21:57 |
| flaper87 | #topic Open Discussion | 21:57 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Zaqar)" | 21:57 | |
| flaper87 | anything to share? | 21:57 |
| vkmc | yes... if someone see some technical debt in the code, please report the bug | 21:58 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: +2 | 21:58 |
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| vkmc | lately we have been fixing stuff without reporting | 21:58 |
| vkmc | and it makes harder to keep track of changes | 21:58 |
| flaper87 | Also, I'm almost done with fixing our functional gate for the client | 21:58 |
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| flaper87 | but we should test the client better | 21:58 |
| vkmc | and don't allow new people to get stuff to do | 21:58 |
| flaper87 | there are too few bugs | 21:58 |
| vkmc | yeah | 21:58 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: +2 | 21:58 |
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| flaper87 | ok, that's it folks | 21:59 |
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| vkmc | :) | 21:59 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: kgriffs vkmc thank you all for attending. tty next week! | 21:59 |
| flwang1 | flaper87: I can create more bugs in notifications code so that the new comer can get something to work | 21:59 |
| flaper87 | who am I kidding? tty in 2 secs | 21:59 |
| flaper87 | flwang1: +2 | 21:59 |
| vkmc | haha | 21:59 |
| vkmc | +2 flwang1 | 21:59 |
| flwang1 | back to zaqar channel | 21:59 |
| flaper87 | :P | 21:59 |
| flaper87 | #endmeeting | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 24 21:59:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-11-24-21.00.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-11-24-21.00.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-11-24-21.00.log.html | 22:00 |
| vkmc | thanks guys | 22:00 |
| * vkmc picks the minutes | 22:00 | |
| flaper87 | vkmc: <3 | 22:00 |
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| vkmc | flaper87, (:3 (gummybear) | 22:01 |
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